Talk:Michelle Obama and Wikipedia:Files for deletion/2008 September 25: Difference between pages

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'''
{| width = "100%"
== Bold text ==
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Left-Wing Marxist married to Muslim Extremist Barrack HUSSEIN Obama'''{{ArticleHistory
! width="50%" align="left" | <span style="color:gray">&lt;</span> [[Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion/2008 September 24|September 24]]
|action1=GAN
! width="50%" align="right" | [[Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion/2008 September 26|September 26]] <span style="color:gray">></span>
|action1date=08:00, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
|}</div></noinclude>
|action1link=Talk:Michelle Obama#GA Approval
===September 25===
|action1result=listed
====[[:Image:Sinkthebismarck.jpg]]====
|action1oldid=191372252
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:Sinkthebismarck.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:Sinkthebismarck.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:Sinkthebismarck.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:Sinkthebismarck.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:Sinkthebismarck.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:Chimeric Glider#Image:Sinkthebismarck.jpg listed for deletion|Chimeric Glider]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:Chimeric Glider|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/Chimeric Glider|contribs]]).
|currentstatus=GA
*Redundant: has now been replaced by the original theatrical poster (:Image:Sink the Bismarck poster.jpg), and I don't know if it is now justified. '''[[User:Bob Castle|Bob]]''' <small>'''[[User talk:Bob Castle|talk]]'''</small> 09:14, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
}}
====[[:Image:MCTTA_2006.jpg]]====
{{blp}}
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:MCTTA_2006.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:MCTTA_2006.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:MCTTA_2006.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:MCTTA_2006.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:MCTTA_2006.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:YourChair#Image:MCTTA_2006.jpg listed for deletion|YourChair]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:YourChair|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/YourChair|contribs]]).
{{WikiProjectBannerShell | 1=
*Orphaned, Copyright violation [[User:Nv8200p|Nv8200p]] [[User_talk:Nv8200p|talk]] 00:57, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
{{WikiProject Illinois|class=GA|importance=high|nested=yes}}
{{ChicagoWikiProject|nested=yes|class=GA|importance=high}}
{{WPBiography|nested=yes|class=GA|priority=high|living=yes|listas=Obama, Michelle}}
{{WikiProjectPolitics |class=GA |importance= |nested=yes}}
}}
{{skiptotoctalk}}
{{DEFAULTSORT:Obama, Michelle}}


====[[:Image:MGEN_Ennis.JPG]]====
As stated in first line, Barack Obama is not currently an Illinois Senator, but a U.S. Senator. I think this should be changed a.s.a.p.[[User:Tusseysky|Tusseysky]] ([[User talk:Tusseysky|talk]]) 18:51, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:MGEN_Ennis.JPG}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:MGEN_Ennis.JPG|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:MGEN_Ennis.JPG}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:MGEN_Ennis.JPG}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:MGEN_Ennis.JPG}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:Wtowne#Image:MGEN_Ennis.JPG listed for deletion|Wtowne]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:Wtowne|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/Wtowne|contribs]]).
*Orphaned, Low quality [[User:Nv8200p|Nv8200p]] [[User_talk:Nv8200p|talk]] 01:01, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


====[[:Image:MGFX_Background_Image.jpg]]====
Her brother Craig was the fourth leading scorer in Princeton University's men's basketball history, and is now Brown University's men's basketball coach.[11][12]
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:MGFX_Background_Image.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:MGFX_Background_Image.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:MGFX_Background_Image.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:MGFX_Background_Image.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:MGFX_Background_Image.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:MGFXmedia#Image:MGFX_Background_Image.jpg listed for deletion|MGFXmedia]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:MGFXmedia|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/MGFXmedia|contribs]]).
Earlier in the Wiki, it states that he is the Oregon State University coach, which is correct. He did once coach for Brown, but does no longer. <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/72.25.5.126|72.25.5.126]] ([[User talk:72.25.5.126|talk]]) 12:49, 8 April 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
*Orphaned, Unencyclopedic [[User:Nv8200p|Nv8200p]] [[User_talk:Nv8200p|talk]] 01:01, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


====[[:Image:MGFX_logo_small.jpg]]====
==Harvard Thesis==
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:MGFX_logo_small.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:MGFX_logo_small.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:MGFX_logo_small.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:MGFX_logo_small.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:MGFX_logo_small.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:MGFXmedia#Image:MGFX_logo_small.jpg listed for deletion|MGFXmedia]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:MGFXmedia|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/MGFXmedia|contribs]]).
I believe this should be noted in the main article, especially in light of commentary about only now being proud of her country. It is important the voter is made aware of these sorts of things.
*Orphaned, Unencyclopedic [[User:Nv8200p|Nv8200p]] [[User_talk:Nv8200p|talk]] 01:02, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


====[[:Image:MGFX_Operational_Model.jpg]]====
from the Wall Street Journal
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:MGFX_Operational_Model.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:MGFX_Operational_Model.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:MGFX_Operational_Model.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:MGFX_Operational_Model.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:MGFX_Operational_Model.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:MGFXmedia#Image:MGFX_Operational_Model.jpg listed for deletion|MGFXmedia]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:MGFXmedia|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/MGFXmedia|contribs]]).
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120269904120358135.html
*Orphaned, Unencyclopedic [[User:Nv8200p|Nv8200p]] [[User_talk:Nv8200p|talk]] 01:02, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


====[[:Image:MHlogo.jpg]]====
article also available
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:MHlogo.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:MHlogo.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:MHlogo.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:MHlogo.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:MHlogo.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:Jannisri#Image:MHlogo.jpg listed for deletion|Jannisri]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:Jannisri|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/Jannisri|contribs]]).
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23219825-5013948,00.html
*Orphaned, Unencyclopedic [[User:Nv8200p|Nv8200p]] [[User_talk:Nv8200p|talk]] 01:03, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


====[[:Image:MIHab.PNG]]====
In her senior thesis in 1985, Mrs. Obama wrote that her college experience "made me far more aware of my 'Blackness' " than ever before, adding, "I will always be Black first and a student second" on campus. At Harvard Law, Mrs. Obama, involved in the Black Law Students Association, pushed hard to improve the low numbers of African-American faculty and students.
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:MIHab.PNG}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:MIHab.PNG|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:MIHab.PNG}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:MIHab.PNG}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:MIHab.PNG}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:DL-Graphix#Image:MIHab.PNG listed for deletion|DL-Graphix]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:DL-Graphix|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/DL-Graphix|contribs]]).
*Orphaned, Unencyclopedic [[User:Nv8200p|Nv8200p]] [[User_talk:Nv8200p|talk]] 01:05, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


====[[:Image:ML_Kold,_zone.jpg]]====
"We got into big debates on the condition of black folks in America," says Harvard classmate Verna Williams. "She's got a temper." <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Mr. jones999|Mr. jones999]] ([[User talk:Mr. jones999|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Mr. jones999|contribs]]) 03:05, 21 February 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:ML_Kold,_zone.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:ML_Kold,_zone.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:ML_Kold,_zone.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:ML_Kold,_zone.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:ML_Kold,_zone.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:Jorboruk#Image:ML_Kold,_zone.jpg listed for deletion|Jorboruk]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:Jorboruk|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/Jorboruk|contribs]]).
*Orphaned, Unencyclopedic [[User:Nv8200p|Nv8200p]] [[User_talk:Nv8200p|talk]] 01:07, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


====[[:Image:Lo 001.jpg]]====
I would put the link to her thesis on the main page but I can't because the page is semi-protected and I have not made my 10 edit minimum. But I do think a direct link to the thesis is important so someone else will have to do it.
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:Lo 001.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:Lo 001.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:Lo 001.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:Lo 001.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:Lo 001.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:King1234567890#Image:Lo 001.jpg listed for deletion|King1234567890]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:King1234567890|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/King1234567890|contribs]]).
http://www.scribd.com/doc/2305083/PrincetonEducated-Blacks-and-the-Black-Community
*Bad license, unencyclopedic, only used in a userspace page currently at MFD. [[User:TenPoundHammer|<span style="color:green">Ten Pound Hammer</span>]] and his otters • <sup>([[Special:Contributions/TenPoundHammer|Broken clamshells]] • [[:User talk:TenPoundHammer|Otter chirps]] • [[:User:TenPoundHammer/Country|HELP]])</sup> 01:25, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
[[User:Icemaniceman1111|Icemaniceman1111]] ([[User talk:Icemaniceman1111|talk]]) 01:16, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
:The article is semi-protected, you'll be able to edit the article in a few days. It would appear this link is a copyright violation and linking to it would be a violation of that copyright per [[WP:COPY]]. --[[User:Bobblehead|Bobblehead]] <sup>[[User talk:Bobblehead|(rants)]]</sup> 01:24, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
::Since you've edited your comment in apparent response to mine..[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AMichelle_Obama&diff=217203542&oldid=217202503] We can not use the link that you have provided. It is a copyright violation and can not be linked to. --[[User:Bobblehead|Bobblehead]] <sup>[[User talk:Bobblehead|(rants)]]</sup> 01:33, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
::: Please excuse me as I am relatively new. I did notice that the footnote 9 references this link
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0208/8642.html
which has pdf links to the thesis. Will this have to be removed too? [[User:Icemaniceman1111|Icemaniceman1111]] ([[User talk:Icemaniceman1111|talk]]) 01:37, 5 June 2008 (UTC)


====[[:Image:1Us Title.JPG]]====
==Working class?==
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:1Us Title.JPG}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:1Us Title.JPG|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:1Us Title.JPG}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:1Us Title.JPG}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:1Us Title.JPG}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:King1234567890#Image:1Us Title.JPG listed for deletion|King1234567890]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:King1234567890|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/King1234567890|contribs]]).
*Unencyclopedic, used only on userspace page that is currently at mfd. [[User:TenPoundHammer|<span style="color:green">Ten Pound Hammer</span>]] and his otters • <sup>([[Special:Contributions/TenPoundHammer|Broken clamshells]] • [[:User talk:TenPoundHammer|Otter chirps]] • [[:User:TenPoundHammer/Country|HELP]])</sup> 01:25, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


====[[:Image:1 tag titles.JPG]]====
That seems like kind of an old fashioned expression to me. Almost all of us work now days. :-) [[User:Steve Dufour|Steve Dufour]] 14:14, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:1 tag titles.JPG}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:1 tag titles.JPG|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:1 tag titles.JPG}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:1 tag titles.JPG}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:1 tag titles.JPG}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:King1234567890#Image:1 tag titles.JPG listed for deletion|King1234567890]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:King1234567890|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/King1234567890|contribs]]).
*UE, used only in userspace that's at mfd. [[User:TenPoundHammer|<span style="color:green">Ten Pound Hammer</span>]] and his otters • <sup>([[Special:Contributions/TenPoundHammer|Broken clamshells]] • [[:User talk:TenPoundHammer|Otter chirps]] • [[:User:TenPoundHammer/Country|HELP]])</sup> 01:26, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


====[[:Image:1 X Division.JPG]]====
:It seems to be accurate enough however. [[User:Steve Dufour|Steve Dufour]] 14:26, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:1 X Division.JPG}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:1 X Division.JPG|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:1 X Division.JPG}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:1 X Division.JPG}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:1 X Division.JPG}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:King1234567890#Image:1 X Division.JPG listed for deletion|King1234567890]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:King1234567890|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/King1234567890|contribs]]).
*UE, used only in userspace that's at mfd. [[User:TenPoundHammer|<span style="color:green">Ten Pound Hammer</span>]] and his otters • <sup>([[Special:Contributions/TenPoundHammer|Broken clamshells]] • [[:User talk:TenPoundHammer|Otter chirps]] • [[:User:TenPoundHammer/Country|HELP]])</sup> 01:32, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


====[[:Image:1lil a2.JPG]]====
::I also put back "African American" to describe her family. This information is often given in articles on Americans and is something people would want to know. [[User:Steve Dufour|Steve Dufour]] 17:43, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:1lil a2.JPG}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:1lil a2.JPG|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:1lil a2.JPG}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:1lil a2.JPG}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:1lil a2.JPG}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:King1234567890#Image:1lil a2.JPG listed for deletion|King1234567890]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:King1234567890|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/King1234567890|contribs]]).
*UE, used only in userspace that's at mfd. [[User:TenPoundHammer|<span style="color:green">Ten Pound Hammer</span>]] and his otters • <sup>([[Special:Contributions/TenPoundHammer|Broken clamshells]] • [[:User talk:TenPoundHammer|Otter chirps]] • [[:User:TenPoundHammer/Country|HELP]])</sup> 01:32, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


====[[:Image:Five man battle royal world title part 3 0001.jpg]]====
Yeah, Steve, I disagree completely with your comment about the term "working class" being old fashioned. The term is used to discribe those of us who work, usually in a physically demanding environment, and make very little money to show for it. There are acctual criteria that people can meet to fit the term "working class". Working class is simply a financial class in the United States and elsewhere, and is used to differentiate between those of the middle class and the upper class.
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:Five man battle royal world title part 3 0001.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:Five man battle royal world title part 3 0001.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:Five man battle royal world title part 3 0001.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:Five man battle royal world title part 3 0001.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:Five man battle royal world title part 3 0001.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:King1234567890#Image:Five man battle royal world title part 3 0001.jpg listed for deletion|King1234567890]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:King1234567890|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/King1234567890|contribs]]).
*UE, used only in userspace that's at mfd. [[User:TenPoundHammer|<span style="color:green">Ten Pound Hammer</span>]] and his otters • <sup>([[Special:Contributions/TenPoundHammer|Broken clamshells]] • [[:User talk:TenPoundHammer|Otter chirps]] • [[:User:TenPoundHammer/Country|HELP]])</sup> 01:33, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


====[[:Image:Country First logo.jpg]]====
What else are we supposed to be called? Respectfully, --[[User:Solutus|Solutus]] 04:36, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
<div class="boilerplate metadata vfd xfd-closed" style="background-color:#f3f9ff; margin:1em 0 0 0; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #aaa;">
:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section. ''


The result of the debate was: <!--Template:Ifd top-->[[Category:Archived image and media for deletion discussions]] '''Keep'''. [[User:Stifle|Stifle]] ([[User talk:Stifle/wizard|talk]]) 15:29, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
::I also changed the part where it refers to her neighborhood as "South Chicago" to "Chicago's South Side", because here in Chicago we call it the South Side. South Chicago sounds weird.[[User:DelloJello|DelloJello]] 22:14, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:Country First logo.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:Country First logo.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:Country First logo.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:Country First logo.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:Country First logo.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:Justmeherenow#Image:Country First logo.jpg listed for deletion|Justmeherenow]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:Justmeherenow|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/Justmeherenow|contribs]]).
*I'd normally use this excuse for non-free images, but I think this can be better expressed using text [[User:ViperSnake151|ViperSnake151]] 01:48, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
**It's not non-free. It's {{tl|pd-textlogo}}, ineligible for copyright. [[User:Dragons flight|Dragons flight]] ([[User talk:Dragons flight|talk]]) 02:31, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
**I just think using this as an image is [[WP:UNDUE|undue weight]] on the subject. [[User:ViperSnake151|ViperSnake151]] 19:55, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
***Have you read undue weight? It's about balancing POVs. I don't see how there is even a POV disagreement to consider. Besides which that's not a reason for deletion, and even if it were, it wouldn't be a reason to delete McCain's slogan and ignore Obama's. [[User:Dragons flight|Dragons flight]] ([[User talk:Dragons flight|talk]]) 20:35, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
**I can't think of any logical reason to delete this image. [[User:Crypticfirefly|Crypticfirefly]] ([[User talk:Crypticfirefly|talk]]) 22:46, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
**Nor can I, especially considering that [[Barack Obama presidential campaign, 2008|the Obama article]] uses his Change slogan in the same format. [[User:Happyme22|Happyme22]] ([[User_talk:Happyme22|talk]]) 07:08, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
***The Obama article ''only'' uses the image; McCain's uses the image and text. A bit difference (and hard to actually tell, given the ugly "this image is about to be deleted" text. [[User:EVula|EVula]] <span style="color: #999;">// [[User talk:EVula|talk]] // [[User:EVula/admin|<span style="color: #366;">&#9775;</span>]] //</span> 20:59, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
*'''Speedy Keep''' "Keep" because the deletion rationale is flawed. "Speedy" because it's marring a ''very'' visible article (usually I wouldn't care, but with sheer volume of "tempest in a teacup" situations regarding the election coverage on Wikipedia, I'd be willing to make an exception). [[User:EVula|EVula]] <span style="color: #999;">// [[User talk:EVula|talk]] // [[User:EVula/admin|<span style="color: #366;">&#9775;</span>]] //</span> 20:59, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
*But then again, [[WP:LOGO]] says that logos without slogans are preferred. But then again, this "logo" IS a slogan. [[User:ViperSnake151|ViperSnake151]] 21:55, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
*'''KEEP,''' since there has been no licensing problem alleged concerning this image. (That is, if it's not registerable as a trademark -- due its lack of distinct design characteristics -- it remains free and in the public domain; and if is IS legally acceptable as a logo, it still is free and in the public domain for the purpose of illustrating the organization that designed and uses it.) Yet, should the nominator believe it improper to use the image due to something other than licensing (such as editorial or stylistic concerns), s/he could initiate a discussion of this issue on the John McCain campaign article's talkpage.[[User:Justmeherenow|<span style="font-family: Mistral ; font-size: 10p"> &nbsp;<math>\sim</math>&nbsp;J''ust''me''here''now</span>]] [[User talk:Justmeherenow|<small>'''''(&nbsp;&nbsp;)'''''</small>]] 04:19, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section. <!--Template:Ifd bottom--></div>


====[[:Image:MLCigarImage2.jpg]]====
As a compromise, I added more specific information rather than blanket "working class". I listed the parents' actual occupation and added quite a few details, yet the article is still very short. I also clarified her titles at the Univ. of Chicago using Univ. of Chicago sources (so they are usually correct about the exact title). Nothing I added seems controversial.
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:MLCigarImage2.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:MLCigarImage2.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:MLCigarImage2.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:MLCigarImage2.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:MLCigarImage2.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:Museriffic#Image:MLCigarImage2.jpg listed for deletion|Museriffic]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:Museriffic|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/Museriffic|contribs]]).
*Orphaned, Unencyclopedic [[User:Nv8200p|Nv8200p]] [[User_talk:Nv8200p|talk]] 02:55, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


====[[:Image:MMLS.JPG]]====
:I have never called myself working class, although the job I have probably does not pay as much as Mrs. Obama's dad's. I'm sure he worked hard, however I think most Americans would say a city employee was middle class. [[User:Steve Dufour|Steve Dufour]] 17:59, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:MMLS.JPG}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:MMLS.JPG|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:MMLS.JPG}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:MMLS.JPG}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:MMLS.JPG}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:SuperSonicx1986#Image:MMLS.JPG listed for deletion|SuperSonicx1986]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:SuperSonicx1986|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/SuperSonicx1986|contribs]]).
*Orphaned, Unencyclopedic [[User:Nv8200p|Nv8200p]] [[User_talk:Nv8200p|talk]] 03:20, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


====[[:Image:MMMlogo.jpg]]====
Colloquially, "working class" refers to "working poor" up to "lower middle-class" individuals and families. The reference in the expression to working is outdated, but in our modern, first world society - where class boundaries have been blurred - the expression lives on nonetheless. [[User:Eliptek|Eliptek]] ([[User talk:Eliptek|talk]]) 08:19, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:MMMlogo.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:MMMlogo.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:MMMlogo.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:MMMlogo.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:MMMlogo.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:Fjahja#Image:MMMlogo.jpg listed for deletion|Fjahja]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:Fjahja|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/Fjahja|contribs]]).
*Orphaned, Unencyclopedic [[User:Nv8200p|Nv8200p]] [[User_talk:Nv8200p|talk]] 03:21, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


====[[:Image:MMpic1.jpg]]====
== Bar membership ==
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:MMpic1.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:MMpic1.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:MMpic1.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:MMpic1.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:MMpic1.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:KiDdaFunk#Image:MMpic1.jpg listed for deletion|KiDdaFunk]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:KiDdaFunk|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/KiDdaFunk|contribs]]).
*Orphaned, Unencyclopedic, No evidence of permission [[User:Nv8200p|Nv8200p]] [[User_talk:Nv8200p|talk]] 03:22, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


====[[:Image:MOCK112_!.jpg]]====
Someone claimed that Michelle Obama is not a member of the Illinois bar. I don't know whether that is true, but the source listed (www.illinoislawyerfinder.com) did not answer that question. Lawyers can choose whether or not to be listed on that site, so if she's not there, it may just mean that she chose not to be. Dce7 17:44, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:MOCK112_!.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:MOCK112_!.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:MOCK112_!.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:MOCK112_!.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:MOCK112_!.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:Arbuckle12#Image:MOCK112_!.jpg listed for deletion|Arbuckle12]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:Arbuckle12|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/Arbuckle12|contribs]]).
*Orphaned, Unencyclopedic [[User:Nv8200p|Nv8200p]] [[User_talk:Nv8200p|talk]] 03:23, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


====[[:Image:MONGOL5.jpg]]====
Mrs. Obama's bar registration can be found at iardc.org (Illinois Attorney Registration and Disciplinary Commission). It supplies the following <ref> see http://www.iardc.org/ldetail.asp?id=168277145</ref>:
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:MONGOL5.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:MONGOL5.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:MONGOL5.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:MONGOL5.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:MONGOL5.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:Magasin#Image:MONGOL5.jpg listed for deletion|Magasin]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:Magasin|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/Magasin|contribs]]).
*Orphaned, Copyright violation - no evidence of permission for GFDL. [[User:Nv8200p|Nv8200p]] [[User_talk:Nv8200p|talk]] 03:32, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


====[[:Image:MORLEYpublicityphoto.jpg]]====
Full Licensed Name:Michelle Obama; Full Former name(s):Michelle Lavaughn Robinson; Date of Admission as Lawyer by Illinois Supreme Court:May 12, 1989; Registered Business Address: Not available online;
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:MORLEYpublicityphoto.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:MORLEYpublicityphoto.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:MORLEYpublicityphoto.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:MORLEYpublicityphoto.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:MORLEYpublicityphoto.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:Archivemorley#Image:MORLEYpublicityphoto.jpg listed for deletion|Archivemorley]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:Archivemorley|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/Archivemorley|contribs]]).
Registered Business Phone: Not available online; Illinois Registration Status: Voluntarily inactive and not authorized to practice law - Last Registered Year: 1993
[[User:M30339|M30339]] ([[User talk:M30339|talk]]) 15:47, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
*Orphaned, Unencyclopedic, Probably Copyright violation [[User:Nv8200p|Nv8200p]] [[User_talk:Nv8200p|talk]] 03:34, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


====[[:Image:MPS.jpg]]====
==Why not say African American?==
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:MPS.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:MPS.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:MPS.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:MPS.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:MPS.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:Katespade#Image:MPS.jpg listed for deletion|Katespade]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:Katespade|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/Katespade|contribs]]).
*Orphaned, Unencyclopedic [[User:Nv8200p|Nv8200p]] [[User_talk:Nv8200p|talk]] 03:35, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


====[[:Image:MR_WSOP.jpg]]====
Why shouldn't the article mention her ethnic background? Many WP articles about lawyers and politicians do. [[User:Steve Dufour|Steve Dufour]] 18:01, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:MR_WSOP.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:MR_WSOP.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:MR_WSOP.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:MR_WSOP.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:MR_WSOP.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:IncendiaryWitticist#Image:MR_WSOP.jpg listed for deletion|IncendiaryWitticist]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:IncendiaryWitticist|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/IncendiaryWitticist|contribs]]).
*Orphaned, Unencyclopedic [[User:Nv8200p|Nv8200p]] [[User_talk:Nv8200p|talk]] 03:36, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


====[[:Image:MR_SMITH!.jpg]]====
Because you have to be from Africa and then become an American citizen to become an "African American". She's from Chicago!
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:MR_SMITH!.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:MR_SMITH!.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:MR_SMITH!.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:MR_SMITH!.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:MR_SMITH!.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:Wongeh#Image:MR_SMITH!.jpg listed for deletion|Wongeh]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:Wongeh|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/Wongeh|contribs]]).
*Orphaned, Unencyclopedic [[User:Nv8200p|Nv8200p]] [[User_talk:Nv8200p|talk]] 03:36, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


====[[:Image:MRtFlier_2007.jpg]]====
If you come to America from any country '''and become a citizen''' then you can become....
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:MRtFlier_2007.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:MRtFlier_2007.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:MRtFlier_2007.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:MRtFlier_2007.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:MRtFlier_2007.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:Rtejani#Image:MRtFlier_2007.jpg listed for deletion|Rtejani]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:Rtejani|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/Rtejani|contribs]]).
African American.
*Orphaned, Unencyclopedic [[User:Nv8200p|Nv8200p]] [[User_talk:Nv8200p|talk]] 03:36, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
Chinese American.
Mexican American.
Italian American.


====[[:Image:MRSoldier.png]]====
If your born here, your an American with "blah blah blah" decent.
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:MRSoldier.png}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:MRSoldier.png|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:MRSoldier.png}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:MRSoldier.png}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:MRSoldier.png}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:Silverbones#Image:MRSoldier.png listed for deletion|Silverbones]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:Silverbones|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/Silverbones|contribs]]).
Jeff "an American" <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/71.242.97.174|71.242.97.174]] ([[User talk:71.242.97.174|talk]]) 21:33, 7 December 2007 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
*Orphaned, Unencyclopedic [[User:Nv8200p|Nv8200p]] [[User_talk:Nv8200p|talk]] 03:37, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


====[[:Image:Twaij.JPG]]====
:Except that the expression "African American" is used for people whose ancestors came from Africa a long time ago. Recent immigrants from Africa are sometimes not granted that ID. This, in fact, has been an source of contention on Senator Obama's article. Anyway, now that the article has a picture of Mrs. O. this is not such an issue for me. I was concerned that people would be left wondering about her race with no info given. [[User:Steve Dufour|Steve Dufour]] ([[User talk:Steve Dufour|talk]]) 14:51, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:Twaij.JPG}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:Twaij.JPG|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:Twaij.JPG}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:Twaij.JPG}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:Twaij.JPG}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:Musm#Image:Twaij.JPG listed for deletion|Musm]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:Musm|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/Musm|contribs]]).
::In my experience "African-American" is used in place of "black" - no litmus test aabout how long ago one's ancestors came from Africa. <strong>[[User:Tvoz|Tvoz]] </strong>|<small>[[User talk:Tvoz|talk]]</small> 16:01, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
*Orphaned, no indication of who this person is [[User:Calliopejen1|Calliopejen1]] ([[User talk:Calliopejen1|talk]]) 04:04, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
:::Where I live (California) there are quite a few black people from Africa living. In general nobody calls them "African Americans", although the word "black" is used for them and black Americans both. To me Mrs. O. is a perfect African American and Senator O., certainly 100% an American and "black" to American eyes, could be called one by reasonable people. [[User:Steve Dufour|Steve Dufour]] ([[User talk:Steve Dufour|talk]]) 22:49, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
:*Oh, actually it appears to be [[Ahmed Twaij]], whose article was speedied. [[User:Calliopejen1|Calliopejen1]] ([[User talk:Calliopejen1|talk]]) 04:05, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


====[[:Image:AubreyODayx.jpg]]====
I have to agree that the expression "African-American" is ridiculous and inaccurate. Case and point: you would never refer to a white person originally from the country of South Africa as being "African-American". Ergo, the expression is NOT used as a reference to the individual's heritage - it's just a way of saying "black" using more syllables. As such, I see the expression as an artifact from a more racist generation that didn't feel comfortable calling a black man in the Americas simply "American". Worded differently, the expression implies that the only way you can be simply "American" is if you're white.
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:AubreyODayx.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:AubreyODayx.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:AubreyODayx.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:AubreyODayx.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:AubreyODayx.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:Klgj94#Image:AubreyODayx.jpg listed for deletion|Klgj94]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:Klgj94|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/Klgj94|contribs]]).
*appears to be a copyvio - no info on when/where taken, drive-by uploader, web-resolution, no EXIF info, only other contrib is another similarly low-res but professional looking photo [[User:Calliopejen1|Calliopejen1]] ([[User talk:Calliopejen1|talk]]) 04:17, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


====[[:Image:L_27310aaf982a5b2032800bc19441fdba.jpg]]====
Adding to the misnomer, "African-American" implies that the individual in question hails from both the continent of Africa (from some non-specific country therein) and from the US. This does not bode well for black people who come from neither - black people from the UK for instance. As I hinted above, being called "African-American" could also be seen as insulting to any individual who's family has been in the US for several generations. Personally, I would never refer to myself as an "Anglo-Scottish-Franco-Norwegian-Canadian". More simply, I am Canadian.
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:L_27310aaf982a5b2032800bc19441fdba.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:L_27310aaf982a5b2032800bc19441fdba.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:L_27310aaf982a5b2032800bc19441fdba.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:L_27310aaf982a5b2032800bc19441fdba.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:L_27310aaf982a5b2032800bc19441fdba.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:Klgj94#Image:L_27310aaf982a5b2032800bc19441fdba.jpg listed for deletion|Klgj94]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:Klgj94|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/Klgj94|contribs]]).
*appears to be a copyvio - no info on when/where taken, drive-by uploader, web-resolution, no EXIF info, only other contrib is another similarly low-res but professional looking photo [[User:Calliopejen1|Calliopejen1]] ([[User talk:Calliopejen1|talk]]) 04:18, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


====[[:Image:L_9a5126ddd3125b88f8c9157699e08846.jpg]]====
Finally, unless you've forgotten, most all of your families immigrated here from somewhere else. The only people on American soil who can truly call themselves simply "American" are descendants of the original wave of natives who migrated across the ancient ice bridge which once spanned the Balkan Sea.
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:L_9a5126ddd3125b88f8c9157699e08846.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:L_9a5126ddd3125b88f8c9157699e08846.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:L_9a5126ddd3125b88f8c9157699e08846.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:L_9a5126ddd3125b88f8c9157699e08846.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:L_9a5126ddd3125b88f8c9157699e08846.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:Kwswan22#Image:L_9a5126ddd3125b88f8c9157699e08846.jpg listed for deletion|Kwswan22]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:Kwswan22|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/Kwswan22|contribs]]).
[[User:Eliptek|Eliptek]] ([[User talk:Eliptek|talk]]) 09:14, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
*Orphaned, Unencyclopedic [[User:Calliopejen1|Calliopejen1]] ([[User talk:Calliopejen1|talk]]) 04:18, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
:Regardless of all that Eliptek, the fact remains that a very large number of blacks born in the United States - including many who have been here for generations - routinely refer to themselves and other black folks as African-Americans. "African American" and "black" are often used interchangeably. If a large percentage of black (African American?) folks born in the United States constantly (as in all the time) employ the term today than it is probably not "an artifact from a more racist generation." Indeed it isn't, because it is black Americans themselves who first began consciously calling themselves African Americans during the [[decolonization of Africa]] and the subsequent [[Black Power]] movements.--[[User:Bigtimepeace|Bigtimepeace]] <small>| [[User_talk:Bigtimepeace|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Bigtimepeace|contribs]]</small> 10:41, 7 February 2008 (UTC)


====[[:Image:J-hazzard-hover.jpg]]====
::I think that Eliptek is repeating a misconception that has often prevailed in the "African-American" - "black" discourse, which is that they mean precisely the same thing. They do not mean precisely the same thing. They are describing different peoples. "Black" people inhabit the Earth, whereas African Americans are black Americans. So there is far more precision, in talking about people of color in the USA, in the phrase "African Americans", than mere "black people". What's more, Italian Americans and German Americans and Korean Americans are not referred to by their skin tones, rather by the historical narratives they associate with their ancestry. (And the problem of the word "black", well, let's not even get started with that.) [[User:DBaba|DBaba]] ([[User talk:DBaba|talk]]) 13:25, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:J-hazzard-hover.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:J-hazzard-hover.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:J-hazzard-hover.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:J-hazzard-hover.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:J-hazzard-hover.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:Jeragogo#Image:J-hazzard-hover.jpg listed for deletion|Jeragogo]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:Jeragogo|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/Jeragogo|contribs]]).
*no indication that uploader is copyright holder [[User:Calliopejen1|Calliopejen1]] ([[User talk:Calliopejen1|talk]]) 04:21, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


====[[:Image:J_nyle.jpg]]====
I would like to challenge both DBada and Bigtimepeace to test the reaction they'd get if they started referring to all Egyptians living in America as being African-American. The same applies to any white person who had moved to America from the country of South Africa. The point I'm making is that the expression is *not* more accurate in that, while a black person may *possibly* be "African-American", an "African-American" does not by any means need to be a black person. Expecting otherwise just demonstrates a certain ignorance towards the global community in which we all live. As such, it wouldn't bother me to see this expression phased out of use.
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:J_nyle.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:J_nyle.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:J_nyle.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:J_nyle.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:J_nyle.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:J_nyle#Image:J_nyle.jpg listed for deletion|J_nyle]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:J_nyle|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/J_nyle|contribs]]).
*Orphaned, Unencyclopedic [[User:Calliopejen1|Calliopejen1]] ([[User talk:Calliopejen1|talk]]) 04:21, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


====[[:Image:J.makarof_early_work.jpg]]====
Another reason I cringe at the use of this expression, is because it leaves me with the impression that the speaker is so unfamiliar with that entire geographical region, that the best they can do is lump black people together with the entire continent of Africa. You'd be surprised at the number of people I've met who think Africa itself is a country - or who couldn't name five countries within Africa to save their life!
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:J.makarof_early_work.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:J.makarof_early_work.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:J.makarof_early_work.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:J.makarof_early_work.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:J.makarof_early_work.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:PASCHALOCOUS#Image:J.makarof_early_work.jpg listed for deletion|PASCHALOCOUS]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:PASCHALOCOUS|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/PASCHALOCOUS|contribs]]).
*Orphaned, likely copyvio [[User:Calliopejen1|Calliopejen1]] ([[User talk:Calliopejen1|talk]]) 04:26, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


====[[:Image:J01.JPG]]====
Incidently, I have the same reaction towards people that don't realize "Asian"-looking people tend to only originate from the more eastern and southern parts of Asia. Russia is still a rather large part of Asia... and I'll give you three guesses which continent India, Iran, and Afghanistan belong to.
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:J01.JPG}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:J01.JPG|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:J01.JPG}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:J01.JPG}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:J01.JPG}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:Joeejim#Image:J01.JPG listed for deletion|Joeejim]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:Joeejim|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/Joeejim|contribs]]).
[[User:Eliptek|Eliptek]] ([[User talk:Eliptek|talk]]) 09:55, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
*Orphaned, Unencyclopedic [[User:Calliopejen1|Calliopejen1]] ([[User talk:Calliopejen1|talk]]) 04:26, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


====[[:Image:J2_Bass.jpg]]====
== Notability ==
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:J2_Bass.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:J2_Bass.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:J2_Bass.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:J2_Bass.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:J2_Bass.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:Zaine7673#Image:J2_Bass.jpg listed for deletion|Zaine7673]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:Zaine7673|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/Zaine7673|contribs]]).
*Orphaned, Unencyclopedic, copyvio [[User:Calliopejen1|Calliopejen1]] ([[User talk:Calliopejen1|talk]]) 04:27, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


====[[:Image:J2APOTF_Front.jpg]]====
What is the basis of notability? Are all Senators' spouses notable? Are all Presidential candidates' spouses notable? Because she doesn't seem notable of her own accord (Vice President for Community and External Affairs for the University of Chicago Hospitals etc.).--[[User:Pharos|Pharos]] 03:21, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:J2APOTF_Front.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:J2APOTF_Front.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:J2APOTF_Front.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:J2APOTF_Front.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:J2APOTF_Front.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:Zaine7673#Image:J2APOTF_Front.jpg listed for deletion|Zaine7673]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:Zaine7673|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/Zaine7673|contribs]]).
:No. Not all Senators' spouses are notable. Most are not. Michelle Obama is unique in that because of the very public role that she has taken as a result of her husband's popularity. Would she be notable on her own? Probably not. But there are multiple reliable sources on her and it is in that context that she has an article of her own. --[[User:Bobblehead|Bobblehead]] <sup>[[User talk:Bobblehead|(rants)]]</sup> 03:39, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
*Orphaned, Unencyclopedic, copyvio [[User:Calliopejen1|Calliopejen1]] ([[User talk:Calliopejen1|talk]]) 04:27, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
::A little addition/rewording to what I was typing above. It is true that if it were not for Barack, Michelle probably would not be notable, but Michelle has taken a role that is unusual for the spouse of a Senator/Presidential candidate. She's used her husband's notability to build her own notability. --[[User:Bobblehead|Bobblehead]] <sup>[[User talk:Bobblehead|(rants)]]</sup> 03:58, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
:::It could be argued that if it were not for Michelle, Barack wouldn't be notable beyond being a Senator, but let's not get into that. It's clear to me that Michelle Obama's very public role in her husband's campaign - comparable perhaps to [[Elizabeth Edwards]] but in contrast to, say, [[Jill Biden]] or [[Ann Romney]] - supports her article. <strong>[[User:Tvoz|Tvoz]] </strong>|<small>[[User talk:Tvoz|talk]]</small> 17:48, 8 July 2007 (UTC)


====[[:Image:JAP.jpg]]====
Wikipedia's fetish about 'notability' approaches the absurd and is one of the main reaosons I seldom bother contributing to this project any more. The smug tone of the above people who feel that they are in a position to judge if another person is notable or not is arrogant and depressing. Of course this woman is notable, and an honest an open Wikipedia would welcome information on all people. What a pile of elitist crap this site is degenerating into.[[User:Steven Forth|steven]] 12:28, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:JAP.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:JAP.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:JAP.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:JAP.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:JAP.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:Johnnyapollo#Image:JAP.jpg listed for deletion|Johnnyapollo]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:Johnnyapollo|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/Johnnyapollo|contribs]]).
:I can quite safely say that in my opinion a good and useful wikipedia would not welcome information on me or the rest of my family at the current time as we are not noteable [[User:Nil Einne|Nil Einne]] 08:09, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
*Orphaned, Unencyclopedic, possible copyvio (toy design?) [[User:Calliopejen1|Calliopejen1]] ([[User talk:Calliopejen1|talk]]) 04:31, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
::No. You aren't notable. When you get featured on the cover of a national magazine, let us know. We'll be sure to create an article for you. ~ [[User:Rollo44|Rollo44]] 02:40, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
**Sad this is orphaned, because it would be encyclopedic if used in the article [[Johnny Apollo]]-- and it is a far better image than the one currently included there. So I put it there for now. [[User:Crypticfirefly|Crypticfirefly]] ([[User talk:Crypticfirefly|talk]]) 04:20, 27 September 2008 (UTC)


====[[:Image:JAZBO.jpg]]====
NB: What about me? :-> <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/211.29.232.10|211.29.232.10]] ([[User talk:211.29.232.10|talk]]) 23:59, 8 February 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:JAZBO.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:JAZBO.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:JAZBO.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:JAZBO.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:JAZBO.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:Jazbogross#Image:JAZBO.jpg listed for deletion|Jazbogross]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:Jazbogross|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/Jazbogross|contribs]]).
*Orphaned, Unencyclopedic [[User:Calliopejen1|Calliopejen1]] ([[User talk:Calliopejen1|talk]]) 04:32, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


====[[:Image:JAmbaarchitecture.jpg]]====
:::Establishing notability is a good thing. I personally am an "inclusionist", ie. I want to see things kept, not deleted. Notability, however, strongly increases the quality of this encyclopedia in so many ways. Imagine having to maintain tens of millions of biography articles? Imagine the spam, the defamation, the ticket queues, the vandal fighting. It was right to ask if this woman is notable. It is quite obvious that not every spouse of every presidential candidate in the world is notable. Sure, in the English speaking world, the United States has a fairly strong position, but it is not the most important country around either! Steven, are you upset that nobody has written an article about you? There are a lot of people that have something to gain from being the subject of a Wikipedia article. It means you have achieved something, it means you are someone who has had the world take notice of them. Why would you want to cheapen that? aliasd'''·'''[[User:aliasd|U]]'''·'''[[User_talk:aliasd|T]] 09:31, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:JAmbaarchitecture.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:JAmbaarchitecture.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:JAmbaarchitecture.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:JAmbaarchitecture.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:JAmbaarchitecture.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:Parabuzzle#Image:JAmbaarchitecture.jpg listed for deletion|Parabuzzle]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:Parabuzzle|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/Parabuzzle|contribs]]).
*Orphaned, Unencyclopedic [[User:Calliopejen1|Calliopejen1]] ([[User talk:Calliopejen1|talk]]) 04:32, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


====[[:Image:JB_Neon_Sign_Nite_2002.jpg]]====
Is it really necessary to call her "black American"? Is a caucasion person from the United States called "white American"? <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/66.74.216.254|66.74.216.254]] ([[User talk:66.74.216.254|talk]]) 08:37, 3 September 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
<div class="boilerplate metadata vfd xfd-closed" style="background-color:#f3f9ff; margin:1em 0 0 0; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #aaa;">
:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section. ''


The result of the debate was: <!--Template:Ifd top-->[[Category:Archived image and media for deletion discussions]] '''Keep'''. [[User:Stifle|Stifle]] ([[User talk:Stifle/wizard|talk]]) 15:31, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
==Is she still working?==
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:JB_Neon_Sign_Nite_2002.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:JB_Neon_Sign_Nite_2002.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:JB_Neon_Sign_Nite_2002.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:JB_Neon_Sign_Nite_2002.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:JB_Neon_Sign_Nite_2002.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:Astroluxe#Image:JB_Neon_Sign_Nite_2002.jpg listed for deletion|Astroluxe]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:Astroluxe|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/Astroluxe|contribs]]).
*possible copyvio - watermarked, uploader did not indicate it is his/her photo and did not respond to talk page query [[User:Calliopejen1|Calliopejen1]] ([[User talk:Calliopejen1|talk]]) 04:34, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
**On the other hand, I notice that the watermark ("courtesy of Adriene Biondo") includes the name of a person who was-- according to the article-- in charge of a campaign to save [[Johnie's Broiler]]. A google search for the name reveals that there are a lot of pictures of various buildings of that era credited to her on various preservation websites. So it isn't implausible that she uploaded it here. I also notice that the uploader hasn't contributed anything since 2007, so it's unlikely he/she will respond. I'm going to email the photographer (I was able to find her email address on a website about Johnnie's Broiler), perhaps she can make this right so that the page doesn't have to be broken with a deleted image. [[User:Crypticfirefly|Crypticfirefly]] ([[User talk:Crypticfirefly|talk]]) 22:57, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
***Update-- If you try a Google search of "Adriene Biondo" and "Astroluxe" (the uploader) you will get results that suggest that it is not unlikely that the uploader in fact did have the right to upload the image for use in Wikipedia.[[User:Crypticfirefly|Crypticfirefly]] ([[User talk:Crypticfirefly|talk]]) 02:41, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
***Another update-- I got an email back from Ms. Biondo, this image is legit. [[User:Crypticfirefly|Crypticfirefly]] ([[User talk:Crypticfirefly|talk]]) 23:24, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
****Thanks. Could you forward it to permissions-en@wikimedia.org? [[User:Calliopejen1|Calliopejen1]] ([[User talk:Calliopejen1|talk]]) 16:16, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
*****Already been done, but shouldn't have been needed. [[User:Crypticfirefly|Crypticfirefly]] ([[User talk:Crypticfirefly|talk]]) 19:01, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section. <!--Template:Ifd bottom--></div>


====[[:Image:JC&Cpng.png]]====
I read on Salon that she quit her job to work full-time on the campaign. [[User:Redddogg|Redddogg]] 14:07, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:JC&Cpng.png}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:JC&Cpng.png|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:JC&Cpng.png}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:JC&Cpng.png}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:JC&Cpng.png}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:RremundO#Image:JC&Cpng.png listed for deletion|RremundO]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:RremundO|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/RremundO|contribs]]).
:This may or may not be true and may or may not be notable - please provide a citation - I don't see it on Salon. <strong>[[User:Tvoz|Tvoz]] </strong>|<small>[[User talk:Tvoz|talk]]</small> 19:49, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
*Orphaned, Unencyclopedic [[User:Calliopejen1|Calliopejen1]] ([[User talk:Calliopejen1|talk]]) 04:36, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
==BLP concerns==
Please see [[Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard#Barack Obama and Michelle Obama]]. Thanks. [[User:Steve Dufour|Steve Dufour]] ([[User talk:Steve Dufour|talk]]) 12:50, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
:I think this is an unfounded and rather bizarre charge. I do not think that it is particularly appropriate to refer to her as an "African American attorney" as if that somehow defines the kind of attorney she is. We correctly do not say that [[John Edwards]] is a Caucasian attorney, or for that matter that [[Al Sharpton]] is an African American minister. Further, what derogatory information is being added to this article that would suggest a BLP problem? <strong>[[User:Tvoz|Tvoz]] </strong>|<small>[[User talk:Tvoz|talk]]</small> 15:45, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
::In my opinion there is a patern to deny that Senator Obama is an African American. BTW there are many people like Mrs. Obama who are introduced as African American, Jewish American, Native American, and so forth. [[User:Steve Dufour|Steve Dufour]] ([[User talk:Steve Dufour|talk]]) 15:56, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
:::But not Caucasian American? Sorry, Steve, I think you are very wrong about this claim - the senator's article has abundant references to his multi-racial background, mainly because it has been extensively written about and discussed by him and by many others and is therefore notable. If there is a "pattern to deny" that he is African American, it does not survive in the article which is carefully watched by good faith editors, as you know. Michelle Obama's race is not a subject for discussion any more than Elizabeth Edwards' is - and there is a clear photo if you are concerned that people won't know who she is. Furthermore, those "introductions" are rarely if ever in the lead sentence, as if the ethnicity defines the type of lawyer she is, as I said. Barack is identified as African American in the first paragraph because it is notable that he is only the fifth black Senator - he is correctly not described in the first sentence as an "African American junior Senator". <strong>[[User:Tvoz|Tvoz]] </strong>|<small>[[User talk:Tvoz|talk]]</small> 16:23, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
::::The last time I checked Senator Obama's article it said he grew up in "his mother's middle class American family." [[User:Steve Dufour|Steve Dufour]] ([[User talk:Steve Dufour|talk]]) 01:16, 31 December 2007 (UTC)


====[[:Image:JCTCLinetext.png]]====
::::::What is your point? It actually says that he wrote about experiences growing up in his mother's middle class American family and goes on to talk a bit about that. It also refers to him as the fifth African American senator and the only African American Senator currently in office - this is the second sentence of the article. It mentions he was the first black President of the Harvard Law Review. It explicitly says his father was black and his mother white and says he is multi-racial. It says he is a member of the Congressional Black Caucus. There is an extensive discussion about race in the Cultural image section. And that's not even looking at the footnotes. And there are photos. So why do you keep suggesting that we're hiding or downplaying his race? <strong>[[User:Tvoz|Tvoz]] </strong>|<small>[[User talk:Tvoz|talk]]</small> 04:53, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:JCTCLinetext.png}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:JCTCLinetext.png|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:JCTCLinetext.png}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:JCTCLinetext.png}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:JCTCLinetext.png}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:RremundO#Image:JCTCLinetext.png listed for deletion|RremundO]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:RremundO|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/RremundO|contribs]]).
*Orphaned, Unencyclopedic [[User:Calliopejen1|Calliopejen1]] ([[User talk:Calliopejen1|talk]]) 04:37, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


====[[:Image:JCarriker_userpage.jpg]]====
::::::::p.s. Since I am one of the long time contributors to the article I consider myself part of "we". [[User:Steve Dufour|Steve Dufour]] ([[User talk:Steve Dufour|talk]]) 20:36, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:JCarriker_userpage.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:JCarriker_userpage.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:JCarriker_userpage.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:JCarriker_userpage.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:JCarriker_userpage.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:JCarriker#Image:JCarriker_userpage.jpg listed for deletion|JCarriker]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:JCarriker|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/JCarriker|contribs]]).
*Orphaned, Unencyclopedic [[User:Calliopejen1|Calliopejen1]] ([[User talk:Calliopejen1|talk]]) 04:38, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
Well then, if Senator O's article introduces him as an "African American Senator" why shouldn't Mrs. O's ethnicity be mentioned too? BTW when I first came to Obama's article I didn't know that his wife was black. The article didn't say but I was able to figure it out by a lot of reading between the lines.


====[[:Image:JDOConner.jpg]]====
Why not change the sentence in Senator Obama's article that says he was born to "a Kenyan father and an American mother" to say "a black Kenyan father and a white American mother", and then say next, "He considers himself an African American"? And then the sentence on his being the only African American Senator could be moved down the page to the section on his election to the Senate?[[User:Steve Dufour|Steve Dufour]] ([[User talk:Steve Dufour|talk]]) 14:26, 1 January 2008(UTC)
<div class="boilerplate metadata vfd xfd-closed" style="background-color:#f3f9ff; margin:1em 0 0 0; padding:0 10px 0 10px; border:1px solid #aaa;">
:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section. ''


The result of the debate was: <!--Template:Ifd top-->[[Category:Archived image and media for deletion discussions]] '''Keep'''. [[User:Stifle|Stifle]] ([[User talk:Stifle/wizard|talk]]) 15:32, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
In response to the original comment posted by Steve Dufour, I would have to say that, in my eyes, this pattern seems more to deny that being black is an anomaly, or something which makes him different from "regular" Americans. [[User:Eliptek|Eliptek]] ([[User talk:Eliptek|talk]]) 20:52, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:JDOConner.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:JDOConner.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:JDOConner.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:JDOConner.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:JDOConner.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:Crazypaco#Image:JDOConner.jpg listed for deletion|Crazypaco]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:Crazypaco|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/Crazypaco|contribs]]).
*appears to be a [[derivative work]] and not the work of the uploader [[User:Calliopejen1|Calliopejen1]] ([[User talk:Calliopejen1|talk]]) 04:40, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
**<s>If you can hold off for a few days, I can get a fair use rationale for this image.--[[User:HoboJones|HoboJones]] ([[User talk:HoboJones|talk]]) 02:50, 29 September 2008 (UTC)</s>
::Fair use rationale for this derivative work has been created.--[[User:HoboJones|HoboJones]] ([[User talk:HoboJones|talk]]) 15:56, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
:::Sorry, the fair use rationale is insufficient. As a matter of practice, images are not considered irreplaceable just because they show a person in some sort of uniform or ceremonial clothing. He is still alive, and someone could take a photo of him. [[User:Calliopejen1|Calliopejen1]] ([[User talk:Calliopejen1|talk]]) 03:49, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
::::Probably not in his regalia as Chancellor of the University of Pittsburgh, however, because he no longer holds that post. This is particularly relevant in the rationale for including this picture in the article on the University of Pittsburgh. [[User:Crypticfirefly|Crypticfirefly]] ([[User talk:Crypticfirefly|talk]]) 00:50, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
:::It is not a photo of a living person, but rather of a painting, which makes this a legitimate use for fair use. (note: I have changed the rationale to accurately reflect this). --[[User:HoboJones|HoboJones]] ([[User talk:HoboJones|talk]]) 00:33, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section. <!--Template:Ifd bottom--></div>


====[[:Image:JDeveloper10g.jpg]]====
==$51,200?==
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:JDeveloper10g.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:JDeveloper10g.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:JDeveloper10g.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:JDeveloper10g.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:JDeveloper10g.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:Faisal.akeel#Image:JDeveloper10g.jpg listed for deletion|Faisal.akeel]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:Faisal.akeel|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/Faisal.akeel|contribs]]).
The article says:
*Orphaned, Unencyclopedic, copyvio? [[User:Calliopejen1|Calliopejen1]] ([[User talk:Calliopejen1|talk]]) 04:40, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
:She served on the board of TreeHouse Foods, Inc.[16], a major Wal-Mart supplier with whom she cut ties immediately after her husband made comments critical of Wal-Mart at an AFL-CIO forum in Trenton, New Jersey, on May 14, 2007. She collected $51,200 from TreeHouse in 2006.[17]


====[[:Image:JEDPOWER.JPG]]====
What is the point of mentioning the amount of money? Is that a large or small amount to receive as a board member? [[User:Steve Dufour|Steve Dufour]] ([[User talk:Steve Dufour|talk]]) 16:04, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:JEDPOWER.JPG}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:JEDPOWER.JPG|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:JEDPOWER.JPG}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:JEDPOWER.JPG}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:JEDPOWER.JPG}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:Jedpower#Image:JEDPOWER.JPG listed for deletion|Jedpower]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:Jedpower|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/Jedpower|contribs]]).
*Orphaned, Unencyclopedic (advert) [[User:Calliopejen1|Calliopejen1]] ([[User talk:Calliopejen1|talk]]) 04:41, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


====[[:Image:JEFF_RADIO.jpg]]====
******
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:JEFF_RADIO.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:JEFF_RADIO.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:JEFF_RADIO.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:JEFF_RADIO.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:JEFF_RADIO.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:JosephDann#Image:JEFF_RADIO.jpg listed for deletion|JosephDann]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:JosephDann|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/JosephDann|contribs]]).
*Orphaned, Unencyclopedic [[User:Calliopejen1|Calliopejen1]] ([[User talk:Calliopejen1|talk]]) 04:41, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


====[[:Image:JEtrurtle.jpg]]====
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:JEtrurtle.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:JEtrurtle.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:JEtrurtle.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:JEtrurtle.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:JEtrurtle.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:FathomOz#Image:JEtrurtle.jpg listed for deletion|FathomOz]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:FathomOz|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/FathomOz|contribs]]).
*Orphaned, Unencyclopedic (image masquerading as article) [[User:Calliopejen1|Calliopejen1]] ([[User talk:Calliopejen1|talk]]) 04:42, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


====[[:Image:JFLO.jpg]]====
I question that assertion that Michelle is the "breadwinner" in the family. Her income in stated as roughly $330,000. But the total Obama household income is nearly $1 million. The missing figure in this calculation is book royalties. Last time I checked, Barack wrote the two books. I believe the "breadwinner" sentence should be removed. Barack earns about 2/3 of the family income. <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/70.12.184.175|70.12.184.175]] ([[User talk:70.12.184.175|talk]]) 06:29, 15 February 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:JFLO.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:JFLO.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:JFLO.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:JFLO.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:JFLO.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:Jordan9294#Image:JFLO.jpg listed for deletion|Jordan9294]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:Jordan9294|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/Jordan9294|contribs]]).
*Orphaned, Unencyclopedic [[User:Calliopejen1|Calliopejen1]] ([[User talk:Calliopejen1|talk]]) 04:42, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


====[[:Image:JGreen.jpg]]====
{{done}} <strong>[[User:Tvoz|Tvoz]] </strong>|<small>[[User talk:Tvoz|talk]]</small> 07:23, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:JGreen.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:JGreen.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:JGreen.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:JGreen.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:JGreen.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:JGreen1#Image:JGreen.jpg listed for deletion|JGreen1]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:JGreen1|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/JGreen1|contribs]]).
*Orphaned, Unencyclopedic [[User:Calliopejen1|Calliopejen1]] ([[User talk:Calliopejen1|talk]]) 04:44, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


====[[:Image:JLG_Indian_Point.jpg]]====
Don't mention Treehouse Foods here! I mentioned it, and my article on Treehouse foods was deleted! <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/66.94.176.22|66.94.176.22]] ([[User talk:66.94.176.22|talk]]) 00:54, 21 March 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:JLG_Indian_Point.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:JLG_Indian_Point.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:JLG_Indian_Point.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:JLG_Indian_Point.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:JLG_Indian_Point.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:Studentjohn36#Image:JLG_Indian_Point.jpg listed for deletion|Studentjohn36]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:Studentjohn36|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/Studentjohn36|contribs]]).
*Orphaned, Unencyclopedic, copyvio [[User:Calliopejen1|Calliopejen1]] ([[User talk:Calliopejen1|talk]]) 04:53, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


====[[:Image:JJ05.JPG]]====
== "City pump operator"? ==
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:JJ05.JPG}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:JJ05.JPG|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:JJ05.JPG}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:JJ05.JPG}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:JJ05.JPG}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:Hoops_In_The_Sun_VIII_(2007)#Image:JJ05.JPG listed for deletion|Hoops_In_The_Sun_VIII_(2007)]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:Hoops_In_The_Sun_VIII_(2007)|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/Hoops_In_The_Sun_VIII_(2007)|contribs]]).
*Orphaned, copyvio [[User:Calliopejen1|Calliopejen1]] ([[User talk:Calliopejen1|talk]]) 04:54, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


====[[:Image:JOHNMAUSsmall.jpg]]====
"Michelle Robinson was born to Frasier Robinson ... '''a city pump operator''' " -- What is a "city pump operator", please? (Or for that matter, a "city pump"?) -- [[User:Writtenonsand|Writtenonsand]] ([[User talk:Writtenonsand|talk]]) 19:13, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:JOHNMAUSsmall.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:JOHNMAUSsmall.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:JOHNMAUSsmall.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:JOHNMAUSsmall.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:JOHNMAUSsmall.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:Nopedcomes#Image:JOHNMAUSsmall.jpg listed for deletion|Nopedcomes]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:Nopedcomes|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/Nopedcomes|contribs]]).
:A city pump station helps maintain the water pressure in the city's water system. [[User:Peltosaari|ilmari]] ([[User talk:Peltosaari|talk]]) 05:24, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
*does not actually look like this is self-made, as claimed. [[User:Calliopejen1|Calliopejen1]] ([[User talk:Calliopejen1|talk]]) 14:15, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


====[[:Image:JONEDWARDHAMMcirca2005.jpg]]====
== NPOV section in dispute: proposal to delete last sentence in article ==
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:JONEDWARDHAMMcirca2005.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:JONEDWARDHAMMcirca2005.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:JONEDWARDHAMMcirca2005.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:JONEDWARDHAMMcirca2005.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:JONEDWARDHAMMcirca2005.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:Theodecks#Image:JONEDWARDHAMMcirca2005.jpg listed for deletion|Theodecks]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:Theodecks|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/Theodecks|contribs]]).
*Orphaned, Unencyclopedic [[User:Calliopejen1|Calliopejen1]] ([[User talk:Calliopejen1|talk]]) 14:16, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


====[[:Image:JORinParis.jpg]]====
Having a reporter's opinion as to the quality of Michelle Obama's stumping is pure opinion and not a fact. At best, this is only her opinion and not representative of the majority's consensus as to the quality of her ability to campaign for her husband. Propose to delete this last sentence for being NPOV and will delete in a week, if there are is no other input. [[User:Aznusmcmarine|Aznusmcmarine]] ([[User talk:Aznusmcmarine|talk]]) 00:55, 4 February 2008 (UTC)Aznusmcmarine
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:JORinParis.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:JORinParis.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:JORinParis.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:JORinParis.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:JORinParis.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:El_Gringo#Image:JORinParis.jpg listed for deletion|El_Gringo]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:El_Gringo|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/El_Gringo|contribs]]).
*Orphaned, Unencyclopedic (who is this?) [[User:Calliopejen1|Calliopejen1]] ([[User talk:Calliopejen1|talk]]) 14:17, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


====[[:Image:JOSE_RICO.jpg]]====
:I disagree. As long as it is attributed to the person who said it, it looks fine to me. I would certainly agree if it presented the description without qualifying it as someone's opinion. Would it be better, maybe, to find another perspective to add, rather than removing this one? [[User:DBaba|DBaba]] ([[User talk:DBaba|talk]]) 13:13, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:JOSE_RICO.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:JOSE_RICO.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:JOSE_RICO.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:JOSE_RICO.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:JOSE_RICO.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:Colrock#Image:JOSE_RICO.jpg listed for deletion|Colrock]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:Colrock|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/Colrock|contribs]]).
*Orphaned, Unencyclopedic [[User:Calliopejen1|Calliopejen1]] ([[User talk:Calliopejen1|talk]]) 14:20, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


====[[:Image:JPMcCannWiki.JPG]]====
:Disagree. Most press accounts I've read say something along similar lines, but if you have reliably sourced information to the contrary, by all means add it. I should note however that placing a tag to emphasize your point is frowned upon. --[[User:Loonymonkey|Loonymonkey]] ([[User talk:Loonymonkey|talk]]) 23:44, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
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:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section. ''


The result of the debate was: <!--Template:Ifd top-->[[Category:Archived image and media for deletion discussions]] '''Keep'''. [[User:Stifle|Stifle]] ([[User talk:Stifle/wizard|talk]]) 15:33, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
:I don't agree with the tag addition, but I do have a problem with a two-sentence section. That a reporter found her to be an impassioned supporter of her husband isn't super-notable - surely more has been written about her role in the campaign which has become a lot more visible. I doubt we're going to find sources that dispute the reporter's statement - it's more a question of expanding this into a bona fide section, or changing the structure of the article a bit until we have more material suitable for a "political activities" section. <strong>[[User:Tvoz|Tvoz]] </strong>|<small>[[User talk:Tvoz|talk]]</small> 00:01, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:JPMcCannWiki.JPG}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:JPMcCannWiki.JPG|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:JPMcCannWiki.JPG}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:JPMcCannWiki.JPG}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:JPMcCannWiki.JPG}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:Scooge#Image:JPMcCannWiki.JPG listed for deletion|Scooge]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:Scooge|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/Scooge|contribs]]).
*Orphaned, Unencyclopedic [[User:Calliopejen1|Calliopejen1]] ([[User talk:Calliopejen1|talk]]) 14:26, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
:*Oops, nevermind. I figured out who it is. [[User:Calliopejen1|Calliopejen1]] ([[User talk:Calliopejen1|talk]]) 14:27, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


Okay. So we're cool?--it's not up for deletion any more? I took the photo, and I released it for publication under Creative Commons or whatever. Please let me know if there's anything else you need to know about it, okay? [[User:Scooge|Scooge]] ([[User talk:Scooge|talk]]) 15:25, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
== Removal of an external link ==
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section. <!--Template:Ifd bottom--></div>


====[[:Image:JPRESS_1962.gif]]====
I have removed an external link:</br>
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*Andrew Herrmann, [http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4155/is_20061019/ai_n16806999 Fame Puts Squeeze on Family Life], ''Chicago Sun-Times'', October 19, 2006
:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section. ''
as it is basicly just another Oprah article about the Obamas' appearance on the Oprah Show. If it were needed for a reference that would be something else. It is no longer found at that address anyway but at
http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:tdWrUp8FcQcJ:findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4155/is_20061019/ai_n16806999%3Flstpn%3Darticle_results%26lstpc%3Dsearch%26lstpr%3Dexternal%26lstprs%3Dother%26lstwid%3D1%26lstwn%3Dsearch_results%26lstwp%3Dbody_middle+2006+%22michelle+obama%22+herrmann&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=ca&client=firefox-a</br>--[[User:Brenont|User:Brenont]] ([[User talk:Brenont|talk]]) 19:01, 8 February 2008 (UTC)


The result of the debate was: <!--Template:Ifd top-->[[Category:Archived image and media for deletion discussions]] '''Keep'''. [[User:Stifle|Stifle]] ([[User talk:Stifle/wizard|talk]]) 15:33, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
==Further reading==
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:JPRESS_1962.gif}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:JPRESS_1962.gif|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:JPRESS_1962.gif}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:JPRESS_1962.gif}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:JPRESS_1962.gif}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:Mw362797#Image:JPRESS_1962.gif listed for deletion|Mw362797]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:Mw362797|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/Mw362797|contribs]]).
See Michelle and Barack Obama 2008 book at
Nonfree image (according to the article it's a scan from the 1962 catalog), fails [[WP:NFCC]]8 [[User:Calliopejen1|Calliopejen1]] ([[User talk:Calliopejen1|talk]]) 14:27, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
[http://www.amazon.com/Obama-Yes-Can-Hope-Presidential/dp/B0016PY0YK/ref=tag_tdp_sv_edpp_i Obama book-Yes We Can Hope] <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/76.202.165.95|76.202.165.95]] ([[User talk:76.202.165.95|talk]]) 16:08, 13 July 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
*Keep. Image was originally uploaded as a CC, was then retagged by nominator as protected by copyright based on publication date (and presumably the belief that no one who holds the copyright to an image from a 1962 catalog would upload it here) -- not a fair conclusion for a U.S. catalog page of that era. I believe it is premature to assume that this image is "nonfree." [[User:Crypticfirefly|Crypticfirefly]] ([[User talk:Crypticfirefly|talk]]) 23:21, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
**There is no evidence he owns the copyright and did not claim as much when he uploaded it. He also has uploaded numerous recent images, so it seems doubtful that he is the copyright holder for both those and shots taken in 1962. [[User:Calliopejen1|Calliopejen1]] ([[User talk:Calliopejen1|talk]]) 16:14, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
***The uploader used a template that states that he owned the copyright. That aside, for reasons I mentioned on your talk page, it is by no means certain that this image is protected by copyright in the first place. Furthermore, the uploader states on his user page that he a partner at a marketing firm that has J. Press as a client. I think it is more likely that either this image is acutally PD and he's claiming copyright in whatever image massaging his firm engaged in, or that he's otherwise authorized by J. Press to upload this image here. You can find his email address here, two clicks away from his user page: http://www.paulandwilliams.com/contact.html rather than wasting time trying to contact him through his user page when he's been absent for months. As for his more recent images that haven't been deleted yet, you will notice that they are similar in style to images on his blog, so I have no particular reason to doubt that he had the right to post them here even though they are very slick and professional given that he has the resources of his firm assisting him. (Incidentally, in the US there is no copyright for clothing designs as embodied in a garment, so to the extent that a photo shows a garment, the copyright would be in the photo only.) As a final general observation, there's no sensible reason to think that a person who took a picture in 1962 wouldn't still be taking pictures today and uploading them to Wikipedia. [[User:Crypticfirefly|Crypticfirefly]] ([[User talk:Crypticfirefly|talk]]) 19:29, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
*Keep. I uploaded this and all of the other images on the J. Press page as the marketing / PR director for the company. I may have listed them incorrectly, but each image has been used with authorization from J. Press Inc. who owns the rights. ([[User:Mw362797|Mw362797]] ([[User talk:Mw362797|talk]]) 22:33, 27 September 2008 (UTC))
*'''Keep'''. The person who uploaded this image clearly had the right to do so. Slapping a deletion proposal strikes me as premature; discussion with the uploader should have taken place first. ~[[User:Amatulic|Amatulić]] <small>([[User talk:Amatulic#top|talk]])</small> 22:29, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section. <!--Template:Ifd bottom--></div>


====[[:Image:JRammal.jpg]]====
== Wall Street Journal ==
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:JRammal.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:JRammal.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:JRammal.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:JRammal.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:JRammal.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:MRammal#Image:JRammal.jpg listed for deletion|MRammal]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:MRammal|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/MRammal|contribs]]).
*Orphaned, Unencyclopedic [[User:Calliopejen1|Calliopejen1]] ([[User talk:Calliopejen1|talk]]) 14:30, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


====[[:Image:JSPLife.jpg]]====
[http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB120269904120358135-oX0uWBRhHNqEyBylKZ58f4_mbXU_20080312.html?mod=tff_main_tff_top This article] in the Wall Street Journal seems to have some good biographical information on her. We should try to incorporate some of this information. --[[User:Ryan Delaney|Ryan Delaney]] [[User talk:Ryan Delaney|<sup><b>talk</b></sup>]] 07:56, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:JSPLife.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:JSPLife.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:JSPLife.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:JSPLife.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:JSPLife.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:BeckyBeck#Image:JSPLife.jpg listed for deletion|BeckyBeck]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:BeckyBeck|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/BeckyBeck|contribs]]).
:done--[[User:TonyTheTiger|TonyTheTiger]] <small>([[User talk:TonyTheTiger|t]]/[[Special:Contributions/TonyTheTiger|c]]/[[User:TonyTheTiger/Antonio Vernon|bio]]/[[WP:CHICAGO]]/[[WP:LOTD]]) </small> 16:53, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
::Good work, thanks. --[[User:Ryan Delaney|Ryan Delaney]] [[User talk:Ryan Delaney|<sup><b>talk</b></sup>]] 17:37, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
*deprecated by much more professional looking svg version [[User:Calliopejen1|Calliopejen1]] ([[User talk:Calliopejen1|talk]]) 14:34, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


====[[:Image:JUI-JessicaThumb.gif]]====
==GA Approval==
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After a detailed review, I conclude that this article meets the good article criteria. The prose is well written and well sourced. The article is neutral, stable beyond some minor discussions that are mainly resolved, and the images are excellent. As far as room for improvement, I think the introduction needs to include more information that makes the reader want to read the article. While the information concerning the campaign was good, it lacked some details. More detail should be included about her argument for her husband. Also, I'm not sure why her appearance on the [[The Oprah Winfrey Show]] is not mentioned. The [[IMBD]] website might be able to source that information. [[Maria Shriver]], [[Oprah]], and Michelle campaigned on Barrack's behalf in California. Shriver announced her endorsement at the time, so it should be covered in the newspaper (sfgate.com). Finally, in the family and education section, the word "always respects each other's advice" is a difficult claim to uphold, source, and it does sound a little un-encyclopedic. The wording just needs to be adjusted a little perhaps.
:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section. ''


The result of the debate was: <!--Template:Ifd top-->[[Category:Archived image and media for deletion discussions]] '''Delete''' as clearly non-free. [[User:Stifle|Stifle]] ([[User talk:Stifle/wizard|talk]]) 15:34, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
Thank you for your efforts in improving this page. I encourage you to review other nominated articles at [[Wikipedia:Good_article_nominations]]. If we all do our part, we can ensure that all articles get reviewed. (I nominated the [[Gavin Newsom]] a few days ago, and I'm still waiting on a review.)[[User:Calbear22|User:calbear22]] ([[User talk:Calbear22|talk]]) 08:00, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:JUI-JessicaThumb.gif}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:JUI-JessicaThumb.gif|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:JUI-JessicaThumb.gif}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:JUI-JessicaThumb.gif}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:JUI-JessicaThumb.gif}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:Jessica_Ingmann#Image:JUI-JessicaThumb.gif listed for deletion|Jessica_Ingmann]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:Jessica_Ingmann|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/Jessica_Ingmann|contribs]]).
*appears to be non-free, though user has tagged it CC, she writes that it is for use on her user page '''only''' [[User:Calliopejen1|Calliopejen1]] ([[User talk:Calliopejen1|talk]]) 14:44, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
**As I read the description, there is a very clear release under cc license so long at is is only included in Wikipedia on her user page. And that's how this tiny 2KB image-- which she clearly has [[Wikipedia:User_page#What_may_I_not_have_on_my_user_page.3F|the right to use on her user page]]-- is being used. Wikipedia is not a free clip art library, so this doesn't disturb me. [[User:Crypticfirefly|Crypticfirefly]] ([[User talk:Crypticfirefly|talk]]) 03:45, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
*'''Keep'''. This nomination should be withdrawn. No valid rationale for deletion provided. ~[[User:Amatulic|Amatulić]] <small>([[User talk:Amatulic#top|talk]])</small> 22:41, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' - the uploader and copyright holder has ''clearly'' limited its use to her userpage only but has included the GFDL and/or CC license which states I can copy and distribute this as I want; those two things are incompatable. This image is not freely licensed and as such is non-free and as such is not usuable without a [[WP:FUR|FUR]] and also non-free images are not allowable outside article space.--[[User:Jordan 1972|Jordan 1972]] ([[User talk:Jordan 1972|talk]]) 13:24, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section. <!--Template:Ifd bottom--></div>


====[[:Image:JaBB-screenshot.png]]====
:: I disagree, I think this article needs more balance. This entire page tends to read very pro-Obama to the objective eye. Much of what is problematic with this article has to do with the way things are interpreted. The quotes such as the one in the last paragraph, is explained away as a joke or as a subjective interpretation. Much of the article's substance is so implicitly pro-Obama, favoring to put Michelle Obama in the best possible light. While there are some notable mention of Obama's past skeletons in his closets which will undoubtedly come out as the primaries wear on, Michelle Obama is portrayed in the most best possible light here in various parts of the article. There is no commentary on how the Clinton campaign interpreted Michelle Obama's snarky remark, and the explanation proferred by Michelle is an apparent attempt to wash away what she really meant. I would not conclude that this article meets the good article criteria at this time until some sense of objectivity is restored to various portions of this page. [[User:Aznusmcmarine|Aznusmcmarine]] ([[User talk:Aznusmcmarine|talk]]) 07:45, 16 February 2008 (UTC)Aznusmcmarine
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:JaBB-screenshot.png}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:JaBB-screenshot.png|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:JaBB-screenshot.png}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:JaBB-screenshot.png}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:JaBB-screenshot.png}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:SharkMachine#Image:JaBB-screenshot.png listed for deletion|SharkMachine]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:SharkMachine|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/SharkMachine|contribs]]).
:::I agree that most of what is in this article is favorable about Michelle. You mentioned "skeletons..will undoubtedly come out.." but our problem is that they haven't come out yet and we can't speculate that they will. The problem here goes beyond Wikipedia, it is the media coverage and campaigns in general. How many skeltons do we know about the other wives of candidates who have recently run for president? Not very many. Public perception of potential first ladies is almost always positive because they are not attacked as much by opponents like their spouses. As far as I know, the Clintons didn't directly respond to Michelle's remark. And even if they did, we can't reduce the article to a tit for tat discussion about that one quote. The article mentions many of the bad things Michelle has done, from her criticism by some for her comments about her husband, to her work on a board that supplied food to Walmart. This article does not suffer the major POV problems you suggest.[[User:Calbear22|User:calbear22]] ([[User talk:Calbear22|talk]]) 08:31, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
*Orphaned, Unencyclopedic, likely copyvio [[User:Calliopejen1|Calliopejen1]] ([[User talk:Calliopejen1|talk]]) 14:46, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


====[[:Image:JaaniPeuhu.jpg]]====
:::: Calbear22, this article's feel still appears to be very pro-Obama and I still don't agree. As far as the White House aside was placed, there was no official response from the campaign. Yet, the very manner in which Michelle Obama has viewed and continues to look at Hillary Clinton, her admissions in regards to being a combined Democratic ticket, her feelings regarding that matter and her conduct on the campaign vis a vis other candidates, have yet to be discussed and examined here. The media has undeniably shown a pro-Obama bias, and this has been reflected in related articles to the Obama campaign on Wikipedia as well. I have not seen a consistent pattern of fair treatment and an objective portrayal of what's considered Wiki-worthy in content on other pages (e.g., Hillary Clinton's campaign page), or on other candidates' pages--for that matter. That's all I'm saying, so I cannot agree with submitting this for a Good Article. <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Aznusmcmarine|Aznusmcmarine]] ([[User talk:Aznusmcmarine|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Aznusmcmarine|contribs]]) 09:17, 16 February 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:JaaniPeuhu.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:JaaniPeuhu.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:JaaniPeuhu.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:JaaniPeuhu.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:JaaniPeuhu.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:Kidora#Image:JaaniPeuhu.jpg listed for deletion|Kidora]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:Kidora|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/Kidora|contribs]]).
::::: You are free to nominate this for delisting at [[WP:GAR]].--[[User:TonyTheTiger|TonyTheTiger]] <small>([[User talk:TonyTheTiger|t]]/[[Special:Contributions/TonyTheTiger|c]]/[[User:TonyTheTiger/Antonio Vernon|bio]]/[[WP:CHICAGO]]/[[WP:LOTD]]) </small> 02:59, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
:::::: Delisted GA nomination and suggestions for improvement listed above. Thank you TonyTheTiger. [[User:Aznusmcmarine|Aznusmcmarine]] ([[User talk:Aznusmcmarine|talk]]) 08:09, 17 February 2008 (UTC)Aznusmcmarine
*no OTRS verification that user was authorized to upload promotional photos [[User:Calliopejen1|Calliopejen1]] ([[User talk:Calliopejen1|talk]]) 14:46, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
:'''Delete''' it seems as if there would be no confirmation in the OTRS the user is allowed to publish this under a free license. ''[[User:ABF|<span style="color:#4F4F4F">abf</span>]] [[User talk:ABF|<span style="color:#9AC0CD"><small>/talk to me/</small></span>]]'' 19:37, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Ummm.. TonyTheTiger was not saying you should remove the current ranking, but rather that if you disagree with the GA ranking, you are more than welcome to list this article on [[WP:GAR]] so that others may review the listing to see if it is a GA or not... --[[User:Bobblehead|Bobblehead]] <sup>[[User talk:Bobblehead|(rants)]]</sup> 08:21, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
:::::I have reverted the delisting. Per [[Wikipedia:Good_article_reassessment/guidelines#delist|delisting guidelines]], point #4, "Allow time for other editors to respond. If the article still does not meet the criteria, it can be delisted." Your objection was made less than two days ago, which I believe is clearly insufficient time to allow editors to respond. For the record, I have no strong views, pro or con, in this debate. -- [[User:Michael Devore|Michael Devore]] ([[User talk:Michael Devore|talk]]) 08:42, 17 February 2008 (UTC)


{{ifd top}} '''keep'''. Since the sign is permanently located in a public place, it should be free to use under freedom of panorama, which is allowed in Australia. -[[User:Nv8200p|Nv8200p]] [[User_talk:Nv8200p|talk]] 15:29, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:::::: Then we'll wait for consensus--a week is a reasonable time, agreed? If the consensus is that it still needs constructive work until this article reaches that status, then I will proceed to delist upon agreement then. [[User:Aznusmcmarine|Aznusmcmarine]] ([[User talk:Aznusmcmarine|talk]]) 09:14, 17 February 2008 (UTC)Aznusmcmarine
====[[:Image:Jabiru_Info_SMC.jpg]]====
::::::: The proper procedure is if it is almost uncontested to delist upon sight. If it is debatable, make a formal nomination at [[WP:GAR]]. It is clear that this is a contentious delist proposal. Thus, the proper procedure is to make a formal nomination at [[WP:GAR]]. '''DO NOT DELIST THIS ARTICLE EVEN AFTER A WEEK. POST AT [[WP:GAR]] for formal discussion.'''--[[User:TonyTheTiger|TonyTheTiger]] <small>([[User talk:TonyTheTiger|t]]/[[Special:Contributions/TonyTheTiger|c]]/[[User:TonyTheTiger/Antonio Vernon|bio]]/[[WP:CHICAGO]]/[[WP:LOTD]]) </small> 18:16, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:Jabiru_Info_SMC.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:Jabiru_Info_SMC.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:Jabiru_Info_SMC.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:Jabiru_Info_SMC.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:Jabiru_Info_SMC.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:SeanMack#Image:Jabiru_Info_SMC.jpg listed for deletion|SeanMack]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:SeanMack|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/SeanMack|contribs]]).
*derivative work - photo of non-free sign [[User:Calliopejen1|Calliopejen1]] ([[User talk:Calliopejen1|talk]]) 14:47, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


*'''Keep'''. This is ridiculous. Photos of signs aren't derivative works. Furthermore, it's a photo of a sign in a ''public zoo'', visited by countless people who take photos there every day. ~[[User:Amatulic|Amatulić]] <small>([[User talk:Amatulic#top|talk]])</small> 22:33, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
==Promising source==
*'''Delete''', sign is copyrighted. [[User:Stifle|Stifle]] ([[User talk:Stifle/wizard|talk]]) 15:35, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
[http://greenvilleonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080124/NEWS03/301240002 Michelle Obama defends husband's voting record, experience] has some good information about the campaign that could be added.[[User:Calbear22|User:calbear22]] ([[User talk:Calbear22|talk]]) 21:43, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
{{ifd bottom}}
::Anther one: [[http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/2007-05-10-michelle-obama_N.htm]].[[User:Calbear22|User:calbear22]] ([[User talk:Calbear22|talk]]) 18:48, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
==Really Proud of Her Country==


{{ifd top}} '''delete'''. Since there is no evidence otherwise, I have to assume the statue is copyrighted. As there is no freedom of panorama in the United States, the image is a derivative of a copyrighted work. There are free images of [[Jack Daniel]] and an image of the statue is not significant to understanding [[Jack Daniel's]] Whiskey the way the article is currently written. -[[User:Nv8200p|Nv8200p]] [[User_talk:Nv8200p|talk]] 15:43, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
I originally put this up but it was removed because it lacked context. I put it back with proper referencing and provided the exact quote. Please keep in mind that the "Some people were offended part..." is also from the source, it isn't just a judgement I made up. Thank you. [[User:Michael.passman|Michael.passman]] ([[User talk:Michael.passman|talk]]) 15:28, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
====[[:Image:Jack_Daniel_Statue.jpg]]====
:I think you are misunderstanding what was meant by "context." It needs to be placed in context in this article, not just with its source. What is the significance of the quote? What is the reason for inclusion? It doesn't add anything to the bio and it isn't referencing anything notable. If it had somehow proven controversial, then the controversy itself would be notable, but that is not the case. --[[User:Loonymonkey|Loonymonkey]] ([[User talk:Loonymonkey|talk]]) 16:02, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:Jack_Daniel_Statue.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:Jack_Daniel_Statue.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:Jack_Daniel_Statue.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:Jack_Daniel_Statue.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:Jack_Daniel_Statue.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:Timjarrett#Image:Jack_Daniel_Statue.jpg listed for deletion|Timjarrett]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:Timjarrett|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/Timjarrett|contribs]]).
::The context of the article is that it relates to her Political Activity, thus it goes under that heading. Just like the things she said about getting her family in order, and all the other stuff she has done as part of her husband's political campaign. If you feel it would be better contextualized in the article, I will be happy to create a section called "Unpatriotism" or "Hatred of America" (that's a joke). As for controversy, the article I cited from ABCnews.com says it is controversial. No offense, but I think ABCnews is a better judge of what is controversial than you. <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Michael.passman|Michael.passman]] ([[User talk:Michael.passman|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Michael.passman|contribs]]) 16:27, 19 February 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
*no indication of when this statue was made (probably still copyrighted?). no freedom of panorama in the united states [[User:Calliopejen1|Calliopejen1]] ([[User talk:Calliopejen1|talk]]) 14:50, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
:::No, it was from a blog post (commenting on another blog post), not from ABC news. There's a big difference. Just because some attack blog took the line out of context (and somebody else remarked on such) doesn't mean that it rises to the level of notability here. If it did, then every single article in the politics project would become nothing more than a [[wp:coatrack|coatrack]] of partisan comments. --[[User:Loonymonkey|Loonymonkey]] ([[User talk:Loonymonkey|talk]]) 18:35, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
**Clear fair use rationale added. [[User:Crypticfirefly|Crypticfirefly]] ([[User talk:Crypticfirefly|talk]]) 00:45, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
::::Technically yes its a blog. But its an ABCnews blog written by what I assume to be their profressional political analyst. So its a neutral and veryfiable source. And sometimes things become notable because they are taken out of context. I do see your point about the coatrack, though I don't see why this is any less deserving to be in the article than the "misunderstood" quote about Hillary not keeping her house in order except that comment is already on the page. On the other hand, I honestly have never heard a presidential candidate's spouse say anything like this. That's just me obviously, but it seems that since the ABCnews political analyst thinks its something to spend his day writing about, someone else must think this is notable too. In fact, the source itself says its controversial. Personally I think this should go in because it says a lot about how Ms. Obama feels about America (not necessarily negatively, I don't think its necessarily negative to show her own words about America). But I'm not going to edit war so I haven't put it back in since I did originally because I misunderstood what you meant by context. Hopefully others will weigh in and we'll have a good collaborative effort like wikipedia is supposed to produce. [[User:Michael.passman|Michael.passman]] ([[User talk:Michael.passman|talk]]) 20:08, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
*'''Keep'''. After looking over a number of other proposals here, I am beginning to suspect that the nominator is groping for reasons to tag articles for deletion, edging into [[WP:POINT]] violation territory. Since when does a statue on public display confer copyright restrictions on a photograph of it? ~[[User:Amatulic|Amatulić]] <small>([[User talk:Amatulic#top|talk]])</small> 22:37, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
:::::Well, you raise an interesting point about the "house in order" quote. That one is equally non-notable, especially given that it was a misquote anyway. I was meaning to start a discussion on removing that one but hadn't gotten around to it. But if its inclusion is going to be cited as a precedent, now is probably the time to do so. --[[User:Loonymonkey|Loonymonkey]] ([[User talk:Loonymonkey|talk]]) 21:38, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
{{ifd bottom}}
::::::Although, the "proud of my country" thing seems to be picking up some traction.[http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/02/19/cindy-mccain-michelle-obama-in-patriotism-flap/] Or at least, more than just Chicago magazine are bringing it up. Granted, no idea if it will go anywhere due to the recentism. --[[User:Bobblehead|Bobblehead]] <sup>[[User talk:Bobblehead|(rants)]]</sup> 23:13, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
:::::::So now we have two sources, ABC News [http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/02/michelle-obam-1.html] and CNN saying this is notable and controversial. Is it still not notable enough. Just because particular wikipedia editors may not be offended or upset by Michelle Obama's comment doesn't mean that others aren't. This is certainly notable and will effect the way people vote. It deserves to be on the article page. I'm not going to put it back, at least not today because I don't want to contribute to or start an edit war. But the people who thought this wasn't notable before should reconsider there position now that CNN picked it up. Keep in mind as people head to the polls tonight they are going to be reading CNN and ABC to find out about the candidates. Meanwhile wikipedia is pretending like Michelle Obama didn't say these things. [[User:Michael.passman|Michael.passman]] ([[User talk:Michael.passman|talk]]) 23:35, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
::::::::Again, you're confusing blog posts with news. CNN and ABC did not report on these things. The stories did not come from the newsroom, they came from blogs. Political bloggers commented on something that other political bloggers were writing about it. But the standard of notability is higher than that. Wikipedia is not an up-to-the-minute political blog. --[[User:Loonymonkey|Loonymonkey]] ([[User talk:Loonymonkey|talk]]) 01:03, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
(outdent) One thing Wikipedia has to be careful of is making sure that it doesn't propagate or extend the life of something (be it positive or negative) beyond its notability. Notability is not temporary and it's just too soon to determine if Michelle Obama's comment will have any impact beyond a couple of news articles before disappearing into history. The comment only happened a few days ago and it is only now actually showing up in some reliable sources. That seems to indicate that it isn't particularly notable yet. That doesn't mean it can't be included in the future, just right now appears to be a bit premature. Stupid comments are going to be said throughout the campaign by everyone, we just have to make sure we don't give them more credibility than they deserve. As far as affecting the way people vote.. That's just speculation at this point. --[[User:Bobblehead|Bobblehead]] <sup>[[User talk:Bobblehead|(rants)]]</sup> 23:48, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
:Agreed. This is a classic case of "[[WP:DUST|let the dust settle]]." Edits should only be made with an eye towards a permanent article. A few months from now will anyone be talking about this or even remember it? Highly unlikely. But who knows? If it gains traction and actually becomes a news item, then it should be revisited in a couple of weeks. --[[User:Loonymonkey|Loonymonkey]] ([[User talk:Loonymonkey|talk]]) 01:18, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
::Now in addition to ABC News and CNN, this story has been picked up by NBC [http://www.nbc4.com/politics/15345991/detail.html], FOX News [http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,331332,00.html], and the New York Times [http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/02/19/prouder-than-thou/?ref=opinion]. Even [[Rush Limbaugh]] picked it up and that guarantees it will effect voters (even though I personally disagree with most of what he says, his wikipedia page claims he "has a minimum weekly audience of 13.5 million listeners, making it the largest radio talk show audience in the United States"). [http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_021908/content/01125108.guest.html] I fail to see how it is still not notable. As for the idea that it may not be notable in a year, it may not be. But this is a free encylopedia anyone can edit, so if this isn't notable in a year it can be removed (though by then it might be notable as a major gaff that hurt her husband's campaign). This is notable now and should be on the page. [[User:Michael.passman|Michael.passman]] ([[User talk:Michael.passman|talk]]) 01:22, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
:::You're still not understanding the difference between something being mentioned on a blog linked to the NYT and being reported on by the actual NYT. It's a big difference. That said, wikipedia does not work the way you describe it. You don't add something, notable or not, with the assumption that it can be removed a year later if it turns out not to have been notable. The burden is on demonstrating notability ''before'' it is included. The daily chatter of a few RW pundits notwithstanding, this very well may turn into something big, but it hasn't yet. --[[User:Loonymonkey|Loonymonkey]] ([[User talk:Loonymonkey|talk]]) 01:33, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
::::I do see your point that these are "blogs." But there is a big difference between ABC News' political analysis blog, the New York Times Opinion blog, and CNN's political ticker blog all one one side vs. random people's blogs on the other side. These so called "blogs" are generally edited and vetted by some of the same people that appear on television news and write regular newpaper articles ([[Wolf Blitzer]] at CNN is the prime example). But yes, you are correct that they are technically blogs. To be clear though, the FOX and NBC articles weren't blogs. Anyway, I'm willing to let the dust settle but I really think that you guys are taking wikipedia ''waaaaaaaay'' to seriously if you think you're building a "permanent" encyclopedia. :) [[User:Michael.passman|Michael.passman]] ([[User talk:Michael.passman|talk]]) 01:46, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
:::::Apparently someone went and put the "proud of america" comment back into the article and didn't even respond to our lengthy discussion here on the talk page. I think this kind of makes sense because wikipedia tends to have a small group of people who use these pages to their fullest and a large amount of people who just edit what they think is good without reading people's arguments in the talk pages (which I think is perfectly in good faith, I'm not so haughty to assume most editors read what I write here!). Anyway, I thought the treatment was alright, except the characterization of the tone as "condescending," so I edited that phrase out. [[User:Michael.passman|Michael.passman]] ([[User talk:Michael.passman|talk]]) 06:01, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
::::::Obviously if others are going to cut this whole section out even though it is now recognized as notable by every major news station, I guess they will. But this issue has really been picking up traction: according to this site [http://newsbusters.org/], Ms. Obama's comments were noted on the evening television news on NBC, ABC, and CBS. Though that source is clearly biased, I think we can trust it to accurately report on what was said on the evening news. [[User:Michael.passman|Michael.passman]] ([[User talk:Michael.passman|talk]]) 06:00, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
:::::::The Proud to be an American thing is just getting too much attention. Even [[Cindy McCain]]'s counter statement might be worth adding. It has been talked about on CNN, [http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/02/19/feb19.contests/index.html]. The last few paragraphs are going to need some work still. As people talk about the Proud to be an American, they are also talking about her swipe at Hillary. [[User:Calbear22|User:calbear22]] ([[User talk:Calbear22|talk]]) 06:50, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
::::::::I added some of the sources that have been cited here on the talk page to the article. As long as its in the article, it should be well sourced. [[User:Michael.passman|Michael.passman]] ([[User talk:Michael.passman|talk]]) 07:41, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
(outdent)Well, after listening to the punditry talk last night and this morning, I must say that Michelle's comment "Proud to be an American" comment surely has gotten quite the run, but I haven't heard a single comment about her "house in order" comment. Although, she seems to be getting a free pass from most of the punditry on the comment. I'm not at all opposed to the proud comment being mentioned in the article at this point in time, but it does need to take up less real estate than it does now. Two paragraphs is a bit much, especially considering the only real change she made between the speeches was to put a bit more emphasis on "really". --[[User:Bobblehead|Bobblehead]] <sup>[[User talk:Bobblehead|(rants)]]</sup> 16:12, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
:I agree. The "proud" comment has gotten enough traction now to be considered notable. It looks like the POV language was removed overnight and the paragraph was trimmed. It seems to work well in its current form (as of this writing, it will probably be changed again by somebody!). There wasn't any need to repeat the quote twice or pile on a list of everyone who commented on it (again, the whole [[wp:coatrack|coatrack]] thing. The "house in order" quote is another story. I can't find a single reference to that outside the one cited source. That should probably go. --[[User:Loonymonkey|Loonymonkey]] ([[User talk:Loonymonkey|talk]]) 16:18, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
::Heh. Sorry, looks like we edit conflicted on the removal of the second paragraph. I also got rid of the "really" from the first quote. The problem is I think the ABC news blog is using the updated quote and not the original. Most of the other quotes in the sources (and the ones I've heard) do not include the "really" and that seems to be the one that triggered the "controversy". In subsequent speeches that she added in the "really". Although, question is, has she been using the phrase in prior speeches and the one that started the firestorm is the one she forgot to use it? Or was the first speech truly the first speech she used it and they modified the quote after the negative reaction? --[[User:Bobblehead|Bobblehead]] <sup>[[User talk:Bobblehead|(rants)]]</sup> 16:37, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
:::Actually, from what I've read, the quote without "really" was a misquote that first appeared in the Boston Globe and was later corrected (but not before it was picked up by other sources). I just watched the video of the speech that started this whole thing and that seems to be the case. --[[User:Loonymonkey|Loonymonkey]] ([[User talk:Loonymonkey|talk]]) 18:01, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
::::I don't think it was a misquote. Most of the "controversy" has been in regards to her comment in Milwaukee and the ABC quote is from her speech in Madison. See [http://youtube.com/watch?v=EGjR81pFJI4]. --[[User:Bobblehead|Bobblehead]] <sup>[[User talk:Bobblehead|(rants)]]</sup> 18:35, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
(outdent) I'm glad this quote got in but I don't think its appropriate to include her husband's own campaign's remarks explaining her remark AND quoting an MSNBC talking head ([[Mika Brzezinski]]) defending her, without quoting anyone criticizing her; the criticism is left to some amorphous "many critics," as if to suggest the people criticizing her don't like her but a neutral news commentator defended her. This is especially unfair because the source citing Brzezinski is also about [[Joe Scarborough]] (Brzeninski's co-host) criticizing Ms. Obama. I think a more fair way to balance this issue would be 1. quote, (cites) 2. say it was criticized (cites), 3. give her husband's campaign's response (cite). If we include the [[Mika Brzezinski]] why not include [[Joe Scarborough]], and if you include him, why not include another person, etc. Long story short, I removed the Brzezinski quote but left the citation to the source; if people want to read it they can see that two people disagreed. [[User:Michael.passman|Michael.passman]] ([[User talk:Michael.passman|talk]]) 00:03, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
:I tend to agree. Your recent edit wasn't necessarily inappropriate, but I reverted it for the external links that were added (per [[WP:EL]] As a last bit of housekeeping, the sentence about her being criticized should be changed to remove the POV (saying critics "wondered why she wasn't proud of her country before" is a variation of the old "when did you stop beating your wife") --[[User:Loonymonkey|Loonymonkey]] ([[User talk:Loonymonkey|talk]]) 00:12, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
: I'm not sure if the change I made explained in my immediately above talk post was reverted cause people didn't like it, or because I used the phrased "see also" (which is apparently not allowed) and then changed it but it was being changed while I was changing it if that makes sense. So I made my change again, per my explanation above. I guess it can be reverted back. But my basic idea is it should be balanced, not just quoting supporters of Ms. Obama. [[User:Michael.passman|Michael.passman]] ([[User talk:Michael.passman|talk]]) 00:10, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
::Okay, I see what happened now. We were stepping on each others edits. I'm fine with the change as it is now. That other "critics" sentence still needs a rewrite, though. --[[User:Loonymonkey|Loonymonkey]] ([[User talk:Loonymonkey|talk]]) 00:15, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
:::Okay, I've changed that sentence and merged it, removing some weasel words, both pro and con (ie., the campaign "issued a statement" as opposed to "clarified" which implies that their position is the correct one).--[[User:Loonymonkey|Loonymonkey]] ([[User talk:Loonymonkey|talk]]) 00:27, 21 February 2008 (UTC)


====[[:Image:Jack_Diddly_Squat.gif]]====
As noted above, the quote controversy is primarily centered on M Obama's first statement, made as part of a speech in Milwaukee, WI, where she said that fir the first time in her life she was pround to be an American; later that day, she gave a second speech in Madison, WI, in which she made a similar comment about being "really proud" to be an American. This Wiki article featured the second quote; I have replaced it with the original quote that actually elicited the controversy. Given that there has been a lot of confusion over these, not least because of a clip of the second speech that was edited to cut out the word "really," it may be worthwhile to include both versions of the statement. You can see and hear the two original comments at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGjR81pFJI4&feature=related. <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/64.122.196.98|64.122.196.98]] ([[User talk:64.122.196.98|talk]]) 01:57, 7 March 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:Jack_Diddly_Squat.gif}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:Jack_Diddly_Squat.gif|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:Jack_Diddly_Squat.gif}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:Jack_Diddly_Squat.gif}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:Jack_Diddly_Squat.gif}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:Jack_Diddly_Squat#Image:Jack_Diddly_Squat.gif listed for deletion|Jack_Diddly_Squat]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:Jack_Diddly_Squat|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/Jack_Diddly_Squat|contribs]]).
*Orphaned, Unencyclopedic [[User:Calliopejen1|Calliopejen1]] ([[User talk:Calliopejen1|talk]]) 14:50, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


====[[:Image:Jack_and_Jill_2.gif]]====
Not sure if I am writing this in the appropriate place, but the quotation is incorrectly cited in the local NBC station and correctly cited in the AP article, the ABC News Article, and subsequent sources which are not cited here. Thanks! <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Nycstudent578|Nycstudent578]] ([[User talk:Nycstudent578|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Nycstudent578|contribs]]) 04:44, 19 June 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:Jack_and_Jill_2.gif}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:Jack_and_Jill_2.gif|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:Jack_and_Jill_2.gif}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:Jack_and_Jill_2.gif}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:Jack_and_Jill_2.gif}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:Cwterp#Image:Jack_and_Jill_2.gif listed for deletion|Cwterp]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:Cwterp|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/Cwterp|contribs]]).
*Orphaned, Unencyclopedic [[User:Calliopejen1|Calliopejen1]] ([[User talk:Calliopejen1|talk]]) 14:53, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


====[[:Image:Jack_the_king_of_halloween_and_pumpkin_ruler.JPG]]====
See [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Michelle_Obama#.22really.22] below for more discussion of this. <strong>[[User:Tvoz|Tvoz]]</strong>/<small>[[User talk:Tvoz|talk]]</small> 04:46, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:Jack_the_king_of_halloween_and_pumpkin_ruler.JPG}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:Jack_the_king_of_halloween_and_pumpkin_ruler.JPG|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:Jack_the_king_of_halloween_and_pumpkin_ruler.JPG}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:Jack_the_king_of_halloween_and_pumpkin_ruler.JPG}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:Jack_the_king_of_halloween_and_pumpkin_ruler.JPG}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:Jack-o-lanternKing#Image:Jack_the_king_of_halloween_and_pumpkin_ruler.JPG listed for deletion|Jack-o-lanternKing]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:Jack-o-lanternKing|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/Jack-o-lanternKing|contribs]]).
*Orphaned, Unencyclopedic [[User:Calliopejen1|Calliopejen1]] ([[User talk:Calliopejen1|talk]]) 14:54, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


====[[:Image:Jack-1-.jpg]]====
== "House in order" quote non-notable. ==
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:Jack-1-.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:Jack-1-.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:Jack-1-.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:Jack-1-.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:Jack-1-.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:Competetiveboy57#Image:Jack-1-.jpg listed for deletion|Competetiveboy57]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:Competetiveboy57|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/Competetiveboy57|contribs]]).
*Orphaned, Unencyclopedic [[User:Calliopejen1|Calliopejen1]] ([[User talk:Calliopejen1|talk]]) 14:58, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


====[[:Image:Dpad1980.jpg]]====
There is a whole paragraph devoted to what is essentially a misquote that got no notice whatsoever (it is mentioned in passing in the cited article which is a much more extensive biography). I really don't see what the notability of this is at all. It's not a political position, a biographical fact or a noteworthy campaign development. Anyone have an objection to removing it? --[[User:Loonymonkey|Loonymonkey]] ([[User talk:Loonymonkey|talk]]) 21:44, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
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:It might stay of we had more on it or if it wasn't a quote so grossly taken out of context. Remove it.[[User:Calbear22|User:calbear22]] ([[User talk:Calbear22|talk]]) 22:35, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section. ''
::I disagree and think it should be kept. I wasn't trying to say that this was totally un-notable. What makes these notable is that they were misconstrued or misquoted (though I actually think both this and the "proud of America" comment are controversial even in context, and I think its a political spin to say that you could only be offended if your tricked into reading them out of context). The point is these are notable. People comment on them. They are in the news. And they effect the way people vote. They shouldn't be swept under the rug just because they make Michelle Obama look bad. She said something. People deserve to know what she said. [[User:Michael.passman|Michael.passman]] ([[User talk:Michael.passman|talk]]) 23:29, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
:::Notability doesn't have anything to do with whether you find it interesting or controversial. That's your point of view. The notability comes from what sort of reaction or repercussions the quotes had. In both cases, the answer is none. Contrary to what you said, they are not in the news. One of them appeared on a blog and the other was just an offhand mention in a long biography piece. As you admit yourself, the whole point of these quotes are that "they make Michelle Obama look bad." Sorry, that's not a good enough reason for inclusion. If this were actually some kind of controversy that was in the mainstream, it would be worthy of inclusion but absent that it's simply POV-pushing. --[[User:Loonymonkey|Loonymonkey]] ([[User talk:Loonymonkey|talk]]) 00:53, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
::As long as it's sourced well, I guess it would be okay. I think if we add a few sentences that relate to the quote's notability (volume of reaction), it might read better.[[User:Calbear22|User:calbear22]] ([[User talk:Calbear22|talk]]) 00:07, 20 February 2008 (UTC)


The result of the debate was: <!--Template:Ifd top-->[[Category:Archived image and media for deletion discussions]] - '''Delete''' - "illustrates" and "adds significantly to understanding" are far apart and the second is required for NFCC#8 - [[User:Peripitus |Peripitus]] [[User talk:Peripitus|(Talk)]] 12:21, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
(outdent) I can't find any references to this other than the cited article (which isn't about this at all, it's just a throw-away line in the middle). I'm going to remove it unless anyone has anything more to establish notability. --[[User:Loonymonkey|Loonymonkey]] ([[User talk:Loonymonkey|talk]]) 16:20, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:Dpad1980.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:Dpad1980.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:Dpad1980.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:Dpad1980.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:Dpad1980.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:Cholmes75#Image:Dpad1980.jpg listed for deletion|Cholmes75]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:Cholmes75|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/Cholmes75|contribs]]).
::Here's another source for it [http://mediamatters.org/items/200708230010]. I couldn't find anything else though.[[User:Calbear22|User:calbear22]] ([[User talk:Calbear22|talk]]) 18:48, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
*Fails [[WP:NFCC]]#8. Image is decorating a list of ad slogans. No commentary on the significance of this image. [[User:Nv8200p|Nv8200p]] [[User_talk:Nv8200p|talk]] 16:52, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
**And yet, I think the way the slogan is presented in the ad, with the italic "ahhh" above the cold bottle of soda being drunk illustrates a varient on the familiar "be a Pepper" slogan. I've changed the image caption to direct the reader to the relevant aspects of the image. Perhaps in this form it will be considered acceptable. 03:31, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section. <!--Template:Ifd bottom--></div>


====[[:Image:Trentino-Alto Adige Provinces.png]]====
==Rezko Issues==
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:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section. ''


The result of the debate was: <!--Template:Ifd top-->
''I hope no one minds, but I'm moving this to its own section from the section on the "Really Proud of America Section" which is kind of long on its own.''' [[User:Michael.passman|Michael.passman]] ([[User talk:Michael.passman|talk]]) 07:30, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
[[Category:Archived image and media for deletion discussions]] '''keep'''. Both versions of the image are factually correct, properly licensed and of equal encyclopedic value. Which of the two naming schemes to prefer is a matter for editorial consensus to resolve. No inherent problem with having both versions around to choose from; no consensus against this one apparent either here or at the article. [[User:Future Perfect at Sunrise|Fut.Perf.]] [[User talk:Future Perfect at Sunrise|☼]] 08:12, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:Trentino-Alto Adige Provinces.png}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:Trentino-Alto Adige Provinces.png|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:Trentino-Alto Adige Provinces.png}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:Trentino-Alto Adige Provinces.png}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:Trentino-Alto Adige Provinces.png}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:Supparluca#Image:Trentino-Alto Adige Provinces.png listed for deletion|Supparluca]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:Supparluca|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span>| [[Special:Contributions/Supparluca|contribs]]).
*User Supparluca has uploaded a copy of an image that already exists on Commons (in essence, image is OB). He simply renamed the image in order to push a POV agenda regarding the usage of Italian language only (instead of including the other necessary and more commonly used names). [[User:Rarelibra|Rarelibra]] ([[User talk:Rarelibra|talk]]) 18:00, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
:'''Delete'''. In that case use the Commons image that already existed. [[User:Gryffindor|<font color="red">Gryffindor</font>]] 08:21, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
:'''Keep'''. This image includes the same names used as the titles of the respective articles in the English wikipedia, so it's useful for the English wikipedia and it's different from the other image mentioned.--'''[[User:Supparluca|<font color="green">Suppar</font>]][[User talk:Supparluca|<font color="red">luca</font>]]''' 10:08, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this section. <!--Template:Ifd bottom--></div>


====[[:Image:Casa Verde 16 Jacobo Arenas 400.jpg]]====
:::::::Also, the Rezko stuff, while we can debate if it should be in the career section, it's going to need to stay in the article somewhere because she did buy the house with Barrack.[[User:Calbear22|User:calbear22]] ([[User talk:Calbear22|talk]]) 06:50, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:Casa Verde 16 Jacobo Arenas 400.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:Casa Verde 16 Jacobo Arenas 400.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:Casa Verde 16 Jacobo Arenas 400.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:Casa Verde 16 Jacobo Arenas 400.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:Casa Verde 16 Jacobo Arenas 400.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:Amigo29 90#Image:Casa Verde 16 Jacobo Arenas 400.jpg listed for deletion|Amigo29 90]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:Amigo29 90|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/Amigo29 90|contribs]]).
::::::::On Rezko, the entire story is about Barack's relationship to Rezko, not Michelle's. While it's true that Michelle and Barack bought the house together, none of the sources mention Michelle except in passing. --[[User:Bobblehead|Bobblehead]] <sup>[[User talk:Bobblehead|(rants)]]</sup> 06:52, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::It can be a shorter version of the matter, but she was on the purchaser of the home.[[User:Calbear22|User:calbear22]] ([[User talk:Calbear22|talk]]) 07:12, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
*Dubious claim that image is uploader's original work. Same image, under same file name, was deleted a few days ago. Same user uploaded this image, again. [[User:Colombiano21|Colombiano21]] ([[User talk:Colombiano21|talk]]) 20:39, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
::::::::::Regardless of her name being on the house purchase, Michelle's involvement with Rezko is not notable, or at least none of the articles I have seen on the Rezko-Barack connection have mentioned Michelle except in passing. --[[User:Bobblehead|Bobblehead]] <sup>[[User talk:Bobblehead|(rants)]]</sup> 07:20, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::::We can keep it out for now unless any one else has something else to say on the manner.[[User:Calbear22|User:calbear22]] ([[User talk:Calbear22|talk]]) 07:26, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::::Agreed. It's really only relevant to Barack Obama. -[[User:Maximusveritas|Maximusveritas]] ([[User talk:Maximusveritas|talk]]) 15:02, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Well, to go backwards a little bit, Rezko was under investigation when they bought the land. It appears in this article [www.suntimes.com/news/politics/124171,CST-NWS-obama05.article] it was public knowledge they were under investigation and Michelle Obama didn't object to the purchase. Although Barrack was mainly involved in the headlines, we can't deny her agency in the matter.[[User:Calbear22|User:calbear22]] ([[User talk:Calbear22|talk]]) 18:48, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
(outdent)To draw any connections along those lines would be original research. You can't assume what knowledge she did or did not have at the time the house was purchased. --[[User:Bobblehead|Bobblehead]] <sup>[[User talk:Bobblehead|(rants)]]</sup> 19:06, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
::::::::::::::::::I defer.[[User:Calbear22|User:calbear22]] ([[User talk:Calbear22|talk]]) 23:41, 20 February 2008 (UTC)


====[[:Image:Kenny_Burns.jpg]]====
==Father's job(s)==
:<span class="plainlinksneverexpand lx">[[:Image:{{ucfirst:Kenny_Burns.jpg}}]] ([{{fullurl:Image:Kenny_Burns.jpg|action=delete}} delete] | [[Image talk:{{ucfirst:Kenny_Burns.jpg}}|talk]] | [{{fullurl::Image:{{ucfirst:Kenny_Burns.jpg}}|action=history}} history] | [{{fullurl:Special:Log|page={{urlencode::Image:{{ucfirst:Kenny_Burns.jpg}}}}}} logs])</span> - uploaded by [[User talk:Robbo103#Image:Kenny_Burns.jpg listed for deletion|Robbo103]] (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:User_talk:Robbo103|action=edit&preload=Template:idw_preload&editintro=Template:idw_editintro&section=new&create=Post+a+comment}} notify]</span><!-- Fix me: The included template outputs a section header, but Mediawiki with "require edit summaries" turned on won't save the page unless a section header is added. Also, if possible please populate the new talk page message with the name of the deleted image.--> | [[Special:Contributions/Robbo103|contribs]]).
The sources I'm looking at have a variety of jobs listed for her father. There's [http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/28/politics/washingtonpost/main3547679_page2.shtml mention that he was a boxer and tended steam boilers], was a [http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/221458,CST-NWS-mich21.article city pump operator and a Democratic precinct captain], and more generically a [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/27/AR2007112702670_pf.html water plant worker]. Anybody got the full story? [[User:Speciate|Speciate]] ([[User talk:Speciate|talk]]) 07:41, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
*orpahned image, sole contribuiton of user, The text that accompanies the image is about a non-notable person and would be speedy deleted if in article space [[User:Jordan 1972|Jordan 1972]] ([[User talk:Jordan 1972|talk]]) 23:59, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
==Income info==
I took out a paragraph about their relative incomes. It just seemed kind of weird, or even a little creepy, to me. Kind of like spying on them. Besides everyone knows that the kind of jobs they hold pay well. And I have never seen this kind of item in other WP bios. [[User:Steve Dufour|Steve Dufour]] ([[User talk:Steve Dufour|talk]]) 12:03, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
:I like the income numbers. It adds detail to the article. We can't say they make a lot of money because that wouldn't let facts speak for themselves. When Clinton made a 5 million dollar loan to her campaign, Barrack said they didn't have that type of money.[[User:Calbear22|User:calbear22]] ([[User talk:Calbear22|talk]]) 18:48, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
::I too think it is an important detail about the couple in a field where money rules.--[[User:TonyTheTiger|TonyTheTiger]] <small>([[User talk:TonyTheTiger|t]]/[[Special:Contributions/TonyTheTiger|c]]/[[User:TonyTheTiger/Antonio Vernon|bio]]/[[WP:CHICAGO]]/[[WP:LOTD]]) </small> 17:33, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

=="In her relationship with her husband, they have respected each other's advice."==

How can anyone possibly state this as a fact? How does anyone know what happens inside their relationship? If she has said: "In our relationship, we have respected each other's advice", then that can be quoted if properly sourced. Otherwise it is just speculation and should be deleted. [[User:Intelligent Mr Toad|Intelligent Mr Toad]] ([[User talk:Intelligent Mr Toad|talk]]) 12:11, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

:I think you are right. I took out that sentence and the whole 2 paragraphs that followed. It all seemed like it was put together, using cited quotes and remarks of course, in a way that tried to paint a general picture about something we really can not know about for sure. It's better if the article focuses on facts, not speculation about people's emotional states. [[User:Steve Dufour|Steve Dufour]] ([[User talk:Steve Dufour|talk]]) 12:24, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
::I'm really glad to see that sentence go. It use to have the word always in there too.[[User:Calbear22|User:calbear22]] ([[User talk:Calbear22|talk]]) 18:48, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

== Good new article about Michelle Obama ==

New Yorker has a new profile of Michelle which could be incorporated into the article [http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/03/10/080310fa_fact_collins?printable=true Article]. [[User:Remember|Remember]] ([[User talk:Remember|talk]]) 15:36, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

I read the article yesterday and it seems balanced. She comes across as honest but perhaps too outspoken. [[User:JonErber|JonErber]] ([[User talk:JonErber|talk]]) 14:12, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

== Secret service codename? ==

If that's true, then does it not defeat the purpose of a codename by making it public?

Agreed, I'm going to remove it.
[[User:Metatron&#39;s Cube|Kairos]] ([[User talk:Metatron&#39;s Cube|talk]]) 09:56, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

== "really" ==

Someone put "really" back in the proud quote and I removed it. The [http://www.nbc4.com/politics/15345991/detail.html source article] that is quoted says this:
''"People in this country are ready for change, and hungry for a different kind of politics," Michelle Obama said. "And let me tell you something, for the first time in my adult life, I am proud of my country because it feels like hope is finally making a comeback."''

Now I don't know if she said "really proud" or "proud". What I know is what the source says. If the source is wrong, then find a [[WP:RS|reliable source]] that supports the "really" and change it - don't just add the word. <strong>[[User:Tvoz|Tvoz]] </strong>|<small>[[User talk:Tvoz|talk]]</small> 06:05, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

:OK, I see that another source has the "really", from a later statement she made - well, we ought to decide which way it's going to be in the article - having the first source not support the statement is not going to work. Either we explain that there is a discrepancy or we choose a reliable source to support the "really" and go with that as our source, but I don't think that's the way to go, since the original statement that caused the controversy was without "really". <strong>[[User:Tvoz|Tvoz]] </strong>|<small>[[User talk:Tvoz|talk]]</small> 06:19, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

::I've seen videotape of the speech and she uses the word "really." Also see the footnotes here in this article. "Really" should be replaced in the quote. It makes a difference. She was speaking of being proud of the politics of this country. Even Laura Bush has said the quote was widely mis-used by the media and the opposition. [[Special:Contributions/72.92.4.157|72.92.4.157]] ([[User talk:72.92.4.157|talk]]) 15:33, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

The "really" issue is already exhaustively covered above in section [[Talk:Michelle Obama#Really Proud of Her Country]]. The word "really" was not in her first speech that day, the speech that started the whole "Proud of Her Country" controversy. The "really" was added when she gave the same speech in another city later the same day. A short video clip at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGjR81pFJI4&feature=related compares both speeches and makes this clear. --[[User:CliffC|CliffC]] ([[User talk:CliffC|talk]]) 03:58, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

:I realized this after posting the above note. This could be added to the article however I think the Laura Bush quote covers it just as well or better. [[Special:Contributions/72.92.4.157|72.92.4.157]] ([[User talk:72.92.4.157|talk]]) 18:44, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

[out] OK - seems to me after thinking this through that the best way to approach this is to include both quotes, with attribution - not the YouTube reference which is not independent third party reporting and theoretically could have been altered - and our analysis of it could be considered OR. The Tapper ABC blog (which is considered a reliable source) has both quotes in the text, so I think that suffices. Edit made, but glad to discuss further.<strong>[[User:Tvoz|Tvoz]]</strong>/<small>[[User talk:Tvoz|talk]]</small> 00:27, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

:I agree that including '''both''' quotes is the best and fairest way to handle it. [[Special:Contributions/72.92.4.157|72.92.4.157]] ([[User talk:72.92.4.157|talk]]) 01:19, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

:I agree too; good edit Tvoz, thanks. Hopefully that simple statement of the facts will quiet things down. --[[User:CliffC|CliffC]] ([[User talk:CliffC|talk]]) 04:04, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
::Thanks - you'd think, eh? One editor has now been told 4 times in edit summaries in the last day that adding "really" to the first quote and saying it's for "accuracy" is wrong. I've now left notices on his talk page about this, and hope that gets through. <strong>[[User:Tvoz|Tvoz]]</strong>/<small>[[User talk:Tvoz|talk]]</small> 04:51, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

STOP VANDALIZING THIS ARTICLE BY REMOVING THE WORD "REALLY" FROM MICHELLE OBAMA'S QUOTE. YOU ARE IN VIOLATION OF THE SPIRIT OF WIKIPEDIA BY ENTERING INACCURATE QUOTES BY THIS GOOD WOMAN. THANK-YOU[[User:Gary Betz|Sea Wolf]] ([[User talk:Gary Betz|talk]]) 06:01, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

::Have you read anything here or the paragraph in the article itself? Have you read the sources? We are fairly and accurately and reporting her words - her original statement and her subsequent clarification - and not attacking her in any way. We also include Laura Bush's supportive comment. The only reason this very minor point is even included is that it received a lot of press coverage. And your continual addition of "really" into the wrong quote, Gary Betz/Sea Wolf, is incorrect and disruptive. If you have sources that dispute the two quotes we've included, please post them here in Talk. <strong>[[User:Tvoz|Tvoz]]</strong>/<small>[[User talk:Tvoz|talk]]</small> 06:12, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

I was at her speech in Madison, Wisconsin on February 18th, and know exactly what she said, and the word "really" was included in the text. I have no time to continue with this nonsense with yawl; she will have to defend her good name on her own. I just think it is utter ignominy that persons are utilizing Wikipedia to further their political agenda and besmirch the name of a good woman. I will have my children use a more objective source for their school research. I will also ask that you that you remove any mention of my good name in your comments. Thank-you.[[User:Gary Betz|Sea Wolf]] ([[User talk:Gary Betz|talk]]) 08:01, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

:You are correct, in the speech in Madison that you saw, she really said "really". That was the second speech of the day, not the first. You have been incorrectly inserting the "really" into the first. --[[User:CliffC|CliffC]] ([[User talk:CliffC|talk]]) 17:06, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

== Michelle Obama's religious upbringing ==

Does anyone have any info on Ms. Obama's religious upbringing? This would bear mentioning in this article, especially given all the related controversies. [[Special:Contributions/99.150.118.157|99.150.118.157]] ([[User talk:99.150.118.157|talk]]) 20:58, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

== Law Degree ==
Maybe I'm a little confused.

According to the article Obama is a sociologist who later went to Harvard Law School to write doctoral thesis. How does this make her a lawyer? When did she study law?

Or is the bar exam making her a lawyer (can anybody take that exam?) [[Special:Contributions/84.176.185.44|84.176.185.44]] ([[User talk:84.176.185.44|talk]]) 15:20, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

:When did she study law? Um, what do you think they study at Harvard Law School? --[[User:Loonymonkey|Loonymonkey]] ([[User talk:Loonymonkey|talk]]) 18:25, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
::according to this article she attended Harvard Law School as a postgrad to write a doctoral thesis. Isn't that more of research than study? I mean, usually a postgrad doctoral student only sees lecture hall as substitute lecturer, not as a student. What am I missing here? [[Special:Contributions/84.176.185.44|84.176.185.44]] ([[User talk:84.176.185.44|talk]]) 19:33, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
:::Read the [[Juris Doctor]] article. [[User:Flatterworld|Flatterworld]] ([[User talk:Flatterworld|talk]]) 06:12, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

No, it doesn't say that at all, 84.176. She wasn't a sociologist, she merely majored in sociology and wrote the thesis as an undergraduate at Princeton. Then she went to law school, and became a lawyer. There is nothing confusing here. <strong>[[User:Tvoz|Tvoz]]</strong>/<small>[[User talk:Tvoz|talk]]</small> 20:56, 7 June 2008 (UTC)


==Alleged "Whitey" remarks on videotape==
See discussion at [[Talk:Larry C. Johnson‎#Whitey Rumor]]. Johnson blogged that he had talked to someone who had talked to someone who had seen the alleged videotape of Michelle Obama ranting about "whitey." Fox News discussed the rumor. The right wing blogosphere spread it and elaborated on it. Obama denied it. Several mainstream media outlets discussed it. No one says they have seen it. Should it be excluded from article at this time because of [[WP:BLP]] concerns, under [[Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons#Basic human dignity]] and [[Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons#Remove unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material]] as a harmful and unverified rumor, or should it be included based on mainstream media discussion of it (Harper's Magazine, National Review, Fox News, Wall Street Journal, Reason, Village Voice, Haaretz, The Guardian). [[User:Edison|Edison]] ([[User talk:Edison|talk]]) 23:36, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

:You just answered your question by yourself. Rumors don't belong here. --[[User:Floridianed|Floridianed]] ([[User talk:Floridianed|talk]]) 23:43, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

::I certainly have not answered my question, or I would not have posted it here. I will take your response as a "NO" based on it being an unverified rumor.I seek a community consensus as to whether the claim can be placed in articles in Wikipedia at this time. Read [[WP:BLP]]. Rumors become encyclopedic if they have sufficient coverage in mainstream media, as in when public figures comment on the rumors and print and broadcast news discuss them. Fox News elevated this one from the Drudge and Larry Johnson blogosphere to TV news coverage, and it has been discussed in several reliable sources, and commented on by Mr. Obama, making it arguable sufficiently well covered to satisfy that requirement of [[WP:BLP]]. The countervailing BLP questions are about "basic human dignity" and it being a "harmful and unverified rumor." Please address these issues. Thanks. [[User:Edison|Edison]] ([[User talk:Edison|talk]]) 13:58, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

:::Absolutely not proper for inclusion. One, it's unverified -- COMPLETELY. Whether or not some "news" organizations pass along rumor without attribution or verification (which is a violation of journalistic ethics, and only happens to candidates on one side of the aisle) adds no more teeth to the rumor. [[WP:BLP]] is exactingly clear on this... We're not going to participate in that sort of shameful behavior here. /[[USER:Blaxthos|Blaxthos]] <small>( [[User Talk:Blaxthos|t]] / [[Special:Contributions/Blaxthos|c]] )</small> 16:49, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

:No, we don't insert unverified (and possibly slanderous) rumors into [[WP:BLP]] articles. The fact that Fox News might have devoted airtime to reporting on "blog rumors" speaks volumes about their credibility, but it doesn't change the standards on wikipedia. --[[User:Loonymonkey|Loonymonkey]] ([[User talk:Loonymonkey|talk]]) 22:43, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

I just hopped on to insert a news link and found this discussion amusing. I love where the "We don't slander" happens in the same sentence of slandering Fox's creditablity. May want to check your bias at the door.```` <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:PRNN|PRNN]] ([[User talk:PRNN|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/PRNN|contribs]]) 09:46, 11 June 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:It should be noted after reviewing PRNN "edits" which have been primarily in Wikipedia political topics, a definitive anti-Obama tone is present. In addition to incorrect spelling and capitalization tendencies, the user is prone to violating Wikipedia policies on personal attacks. User PRNN should be either banned, ignored or both. [[Special:Contributions/75.145.70.69|75.145.70.69]] ([[User talk:75.145.70.69|talk]]) 17:04, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

:Perhaps you're a bit confused as to the definition of [[slander]]? There is a minor criticism, but no example of slander against Fox News in the comments above (and there is a big difference between talk space and article space on Wikipedia, anyway). Also, don't forget to sign your posts by typing four tildes ( <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> ) at the end. --[[User:Loonymonkey|Loonymonkey]] ([[User talk:Loonymonkey|talk]]) 01:04, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

It seems to have sourcing, as a well publicized unsubstantiated rumor, but I have come to feel that as an utterly unsubstantiated damaging and derogatory rumor, which fans the flames of racism, it falls afoul of [[WP:BLP]]and should not be included in articles at this time. At this time no one even claims to have heard the remarks or to have seen the tape, and Wikipedia should not be a vehicle for politically motivated racist smear campaigns, especially when they appear to be intended to influence a Presidential election. It is at this point a "non-incident," with no tape, no witnesses, and no one who says they viewed the tape. It is a rumor per se, just "I heard from someone who heard from someone....." and does not come near the standard which has been set for derogatory information about others in the recent past. [[User:Edison|Edison]] ([[User talk:Edison|talk]]) 21:54, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't think there should be any mention of this. Wikipedia isn't a tabloid, of course. On the other hand, I sure wish someone would figure out how someone who writes like a fifth grader managed to get into Harvard Law (see the Princeton "thesis"). [[Special:Contributions/63.171.230.113|63.171.230.113]] ([[User talk:63.171.230.113|talk]]) 18:45, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

It has nothing with racism to do, grow up! But it shouldn't be there, because it's not verified, and it's very doubtful it actually happened. <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/208.188.64.83|208.188.64.83]] ([[User talk:208.188.64.83|talk]]) 20:07, 26 August 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

==PR link==
http://www.prnewsnow.com/Public_Release/Consumer/211086.html

Article on Michelles dealings with Asthama and her daughters dealing with same.
```` <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:PRNN|PRNN]] ([[User talk:PRNN|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/PRNN|contribs]]) 09:46, 11 June 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

==New Picture==

Can't we get a better picture? <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Hawk08210|Hawk08210]] ([[User talk:Hawk08210|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Hawk08210|contribs]]) 17:40, 22 June 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

==Possible Lock Needed to Avoid Vandalism==

I'm surprised that this article isn't locked as of now to avoid vandalism from the public. [[Special:Contributions/98.240.50.146|98.240.50.146]] ([[User talk:98.240.50.146|talk]]) <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|comment]] was added at 16:39, 9 July 2008 (UTC)</small><!--Template:Undated--> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

==Sorority Reference==

I understand the overzealouness of the individual referring to Mrs. Obama as a member of Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Inc. (and not just on this page), but at least they could stick to the facts, particularly the ones from their own footnote. I have waited to see whether the reference here will be corrected or whether Mrs. Obama has since become a member of the sorority. Until she is inducted, she is not a member and the page should not state otherwise. [[User:Avid reader|Avid reader]] ([[User talk:Avid reader|talk]]) 16:05, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

== Media paints her as an angry black woman, "often" ==

This is simply not true. One of the two sources included is a blog post by Cal Thomas a syndicated conservative columnist and the second one just says that some people in the media may want to paint her as "angry". This statement is also not a good way to end this article, this need to be revised. <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/65.6.173.150|65.6.173.150]] ([[User talk:65.6.173.150|talk]]) 08:47, 6 August 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:Yes, I had not even heard of this until catching a bit of O'Reilly while channel surfing last night. Perhaps one or more nonpartisan, reputable sources should be added? ~ [[Special:Contributions/76.99.199.53|76.99.199.53]] ([[User talk:76.99.199.53|talk]]) 19:03, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

What sources should be added? This is ridiculous. The media, in general, is not painting her as an angry black woman at all! Because she isn't. Do we really have to start this left wing yeah-obama-did-not-get-elected-because-of-racist-america-propaganda even before he isn't elected? Jesus christ! <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/208.188.64.83|208.188.64.83]] ([[User talk:208.188.64.83|talk]]) 20:02, 26 August 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

==Non sequitur?==
''Despite her criticisms of Clinton during the 2008 campaign, when asked in 2004 which political spouse she admired, Obama cited Hillary Clinton....''

Perhaps ''despite'' is technically correct here, but the way this sentence reads, it sounds as if we're saying she named Clinton in '04 ''in spite of'' her criticisms of Clinton in '08. In other words, it sounds as if the '08 criticisms were a context for the '04 statement — obviously an impossibility.

[[User:Sca|Sca]] ([[User talk:Sca|talk]]) 19:26, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

== Disputing the Neutrality of 2008 DNC Speech section ==

This section lacks neutrality and is akin to propaganda. It exhibits flowery bias and seems to lack objectivity considering that the only viewpoints explicitly cited come from The American Prospect (which describes itself as 'liberal intelligence' and 'A Biweekly magazine covering politics, culture, and policy from a liberal perspective.) and The New Republic. [[User:Gonzeaux|Gonzeaux]] ([[User talk:Gonzeaux|talk]]) 12:23, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

== gas station comments ==

Michelle Obama said when asked if she fears for her husbands safety "i dont lose sleep over it, because the reality is, that, as a black man, Barack can get shot going to the gas station". there are no comments about this controversial comment. does anyone know what in the world she was talking about? [[User:Valliant1967|Valliant1967]] ([[User talk:Valliant1967|talk]]) 22:26, 7 September 2008 (UTC)


== pregnancy ==
she looks pregnant? Is she? I work for Fox News and really need this scoop <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/24.12.52.104|24.12.52.104]] ([[User talk:24.12.52.104|talk]]) 12:38, 10 October 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

Revision as of 15:43, 10 October 2008

September 25

Image:Sinkthebismarck.jpg

Image:Sinkthebismarck.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Chimeric Glider (notify | contribs).
  • Redundant: has now been replaced by the original theatrical poster (:Image:Sink the Bismarck poster.jpg), and I don't know if it is now justified. Bob talk 09:14, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:MCTTA_2006.jpg

Image:MCTTA_2006.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by YourChair (notify | contribs).
  • Orphaned, Copyright violation Nv8200p talk 00:57, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:MGEN_Ennis.JPG

Image:MGEN_Ennis.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Wtowne (notify | contribs).

Image:MGFX_Background_Image.jpg

Image:MGFX_Background_Image.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by MGFXmedia (notify | contribs).

Image:MGFX_logo_small.jpg

Image:MGFX_logo_small.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by MGFXmedia (notify | contribs).

Image:MGFX_Operational_Model.jpg

Image:MGFX_Operational_Model.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by MGFXmedia (notify | contribs).

Image:MHlogo.jpg

Image:MHlogo.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Jannisri (notify | contribs).

Image:MIHab.PNG

Image:MIHab.PNG (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by DL-Graphix (notify | contribs).

Image:ML_Kold,_zone.jpg

Image:ML_Kold,_zone.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Jorboruk (notify | contribs).

Image:Lo 001.jpg

Image:Lo 001.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by King1234567890 (notify | contribs).

Image:1Us Title.JPG

Image:1Us Title.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by King1234567890 (notify | contribs).

Image:1 tag titles.JPG

Image:1 tag titles.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by King1234567890 (notify | contribs).

Image:1 X Division.JPG

Image:1 X Division.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by King1234567890 (notify | contribs).

Image:1lil a2.JPG

Image:1lil a2.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by King1234567890 (notify | contribs).

Image:Five man battle royal world title part 3 0001.jpg

Image:Five man battle royal world title part 3 0001.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by King1234567890 (notify | contribs).

Image:Country First logo.jpg

Image:MLCigarImage2.jpg

Image:MLCigarImage2.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Museriffic (notify | contribs).

Image:MMLS.JPG

Image:MMLS.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by SuperSonicx1986 (notify | contribs).

Image:MMMlogo.jpg

Image:MMMlogo.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Fjahja (notify | contribs).

Image:MMpic1.jpg

Image:MMpic1.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by KiDdaFunk (notify | contribs).
  • Orphaned, Unencyclopedic, No evidence of permission Nv8200p talk 03:22, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:MOCK112_!.jpg

Image:MOCK112_!.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Arbuckle12 (notify | contribs).

Image:MONGOL5.jpg

Image:MONGOL5.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Magasin (notify | contribs).
  • Orphaned, Copyright violation - no evidence of permission for GFDL. Nv8200p talk 03:32, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:MORLEYpublicityphoto.jpg

Image:MORLEYpublicityphoto.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Archivemorley (notify | contribs).
  • Orphaned, Unencyclopedic, Probably Copyright violation Nv8200p talk 03:34, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:MPS.jpg

Image:MPS.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Katespade (notify | contribs).

Image:MR_WSOP.jpg

Image:MR_WSOP.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by IncendiaryWitticist (notify | contribs).

Image:MR_SMITH!.jpg

Image:MR_SMITH!.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Wongeh (notify | contribs).

Image:MRtFlier_2007.jpg

Image:MRtFlier_2007.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Rtejani (notify | contribs).

Image:MRSoldier.png

Image:MRSoldier.png (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Silverbones (notify | contribs).

Image:Twaij.JPG

Image:Twaij.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Musm (notify | contribs).

Image:AubreyODayx.jpg

Image:AubreyODayx.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Klgj94 (notify | contribs).
  • appears to be a copyvio - no info on when/where taken, drive-by uploader, web-resolution, no EXIF info, only other contrib is another similarly low-res but professional looking photo Calliopejen1 (talk) 04:17, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:L_27310aaf982a5b2032800bc19441fdba.jpg

Image:L_27310aaf982a5b2032800bc19441fdba.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Klgj94 (notify | contribs).
  • appears to be a copyvio - no info on when/where taken, drive-by uploader, web-resolution, no EXIF info, only other contrib is another similarly low-res but professional looking photo Calliopejen1 (talk) 04:18, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:L_9a5126ddd3125b88f8c9157699e08846.jpg

Image:L_9a5126ddd3125b88f8c9157699e08846.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Kwswan22 (notify | contribs).

Image:J-hazzard-hover.jpg

Image:J-hazzard-hover.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Jeragogo (notify | contribs).
  • no indication that uploader is copyright holder Calliopejen1 (talk) 04:21, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:J_nyle.jpg

Image:J_nyle.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by J_nyle (notify | contribs).

Image:J.makarof_early_work.jpg

Image:J.makarof_early_work.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by PASCHALOCOUS (notify | contribs).

Image:J01.JPG

Image:J01.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Joeejim (notify | contribs).

Image:J2_Bass.jpg

Image:J2_Bass.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Zaine7673 (notify | contribs).

Image:J2APOTF_Front.jpg

Image:J2APOTF_Front.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Zaine7673 (notify | contribs).

Image:JAP.jpg

Image:JAP.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Johnnyapollo (notify | contribs).
  • Orphaned, Unencyclopedic, possible copyvio (toy design?) Calliopejen1 (talk) 04:31, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • Sad this is orphaned, because it would be encyclopedic if used in the article Johnny Apollo-- and it is a far better image than the one currently included there. So I put it there for now. Crypticfirefly (talk) 04:20, 27 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:JAZBO.jpg

Image:JAZBO.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Jazbogross (notify | contribs).

Image:JAmbaarchitecture.jpg

Image:JAmbaarchitecture.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Parabuzzle (notify | contribs).

Image:JB_Neon_Sign_Nite_2002.jpg

Image:JC&Cpng.png

Image:JC&Cpng.png (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by RremundO (notify | contribs).

Image:JCTCLinetext.png

Image:JCTCLinetext.png (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by RremundO (notify | contribs).

Image:JCarriker_userpage.jpg

Image:JCarriker_userpage.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by JCarriker (notify | contribs).

Image:JDOConner.jpg

Image:JDeveloper10g.jpg

Image:JDeveloper10g.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Faisal.akeel (notify | contribs).

Image:JEDPOWER.JPG

Image:JEDPOWER.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Jedpower (notify | contribs).

Image:JEFF_RADIO.jpg

Image:JEFF_RADIO.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by JosephDann (notify | contribs).

Image:JEtrurtle.jpg

Image:JEtrurtle.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by FathomOz (notify | contribs).
  • Orphaned, Unencyclopedic (image masquerading as article) Calliopejen1 (talk) 04:42, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:JFLO.jpg

Image:JFLO.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Jordan9294 (notify | contribs).

Image:JGreen.jpg

Image:JGreen.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by JGreen1 (notify | contribs).

Image:JLG_Indian_Point.jpg

Image:JLG_Indian_Point.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Studentjohn36 (notify | contribs).

Image:JJ05.JPG

Image:JJ05.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Hoops_In_The_Sun_VIII_(2007) (notify | contribs).

Image:JOHNMAUSsmall.jpg

Image:JOHNMAUSsmall.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Nopedcomes (notify | contribs).
  • does not actually look like this is self-made, as claimed. Calliopejen1 (talk) 14:15, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:JONEDWARDHAMMcirca2005.jpg

Image:JONEDWARDHAMMcirca2005.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Theodecks (notify | contribs).

Image:JORinParis.jpg

Image:JORinParis.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by El_Gringo (notify | contribs).

Image:JOSE_RICO.jpg

Image:JOSE_RICO.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Colrock (notify | contribs).

Image:JPMcCannWiki.JPG

Image:JPRESS_1962.gif

Image:JRammal.jpg

Image:JRammal.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by MRammal (notify | contribs).

Image:JSPLife.jpg

Image:JSPLife.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by BeckyBeck (notify | contribs).
  • deprecated by much more professional looking svg version Calliopejen1 (talk) 14:34, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:JUI-JessicaThumb.gif

Image:JaBB-screenshot.png

Image:JaBB-screenshot.png (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by SharkMachine (notify | contribs).

Image:JaaniPeuhu.jpg

Image:JaaniPeuhu.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Kidora (notify | contribs).
  • no OTRS verification that user was authorized to upload promotional photos Calliopejen1 (talk) 14:46, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete it seems as if there would be no confirmation in the OTRS the user is allowed to publish this under a free license. abf /talk to me/ 19:37, 27 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more files. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the file's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: keep. Since the sign is permanently located in a public place, it should be free to use under freedom of panorama, which is allowed in Australia. -Nv8200p talk 15:29, 10 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Jabiru_Info_SMC.jpg

Image:Jabiru_Info_SMC.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by SeanMack (notify | contribs).
  • Keep. This is ridiculous. Photos of signs aren't derivative works. Furthermore, it's a photo of a sign in a public zoo, visited by countless people who take photos there every day. ~Amatulić (talk) 22:33, 2 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete, sign is copyrighted. Stifle (talk) 15:35, 8 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the file's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more files. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the file's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: delete. Since there is no evidence otherwise, I have to assume the statue is copyrighted. As there is no freedom of panorama in the United States, the image is a derivative of a copyrighted work. There are free images of Jack Daniel and an image of the statue is not significant to understanding Jack Daniel's Whiskey the way the article is currently written. -Nv8200p talk 15:43, 10 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Jack_Daniel_Statue.jpg

Image:Jack_Daniel_Statue.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Timjarrett (notify | contribs).
  • no indication of when this statue was made (probably still copyrighted?). no freedom of panorama in the united states Calliopejen1 (talk) 14:50, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. After looking over a number of other proposals here, I am beginning to suspect that the nominator is groping for reasons to tag articles for deletion, edging into WP:POINT violation territory. Since when does a statue on public display confer copyright restrictions on a photograph of it? ~Amatulić (talk) 22:37, 2 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the file's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Image:Jack_Diddly_Squat.gif

Image:Jack_Diddly_Squat.gif (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Jack_Diddly_Squat (notify | contribs).

Image:Jack_and_Jill_2.gif

Image:Jack_and_Jill_2.gif (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Cwterp (notify | contribs).

Image:Jack_the_king_of_halloween_and_pumpkin_ruler.JPG

Image:Jack_the_king_of_halloween_and_pumpkin_ruler.JPG (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Jack-o-lanternKing (notify | contribs).

Image:Jack-1-.jpg

Image:Jack-1-.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Competetiveboy57 (notify | contribs).

Image:Dpad1980.jpg

Image:Trentino-Alto Adige Provinces.png

Image:Casa Verde 16 Jacobo Arenas 400.jpg

Image:Casa Verde 16 Jacobo Arenas 400.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Amigo29 90 (notify | contribs).
  • Dubious claim that image is uploader's original work. Same image, under same file name, was deleted a few days ago. Same user uploaded this image, again. Colombiano21 (talk) 20:39, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Kenny_Burns.jpg

Image:Kenny_Burns.jpg (delete | talk | history | logs) - uploaded by Robbo103 (notify | contribs).
  • orpahned image, sole contribuiton of user, The text that accompanies the image is about a non-notable person and would be speedy deleted if in article space Jordan 1972 (talk) 23:59, 25 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]