Talk:Ukulele

Info on variants

The section on Tahitian Ukulele seemed a bit extraneous, so I chopped it out to its own article. On its own, it had enough sections to merit a short article with future potential.

Likewise, I figured that Resonator ukulele and Electric ukulele merited articles about as much as Banjolele. I set up a full article for resos, based on the Resonator guitar article, with copious input from the UkuleleCosmos.com crew. I only have a stub for the electrics though, so help there would be awesome to clear up technical issues like magnetic vs. piezo pickups, list famous players, etc.

There's currently little/no info on 6-string and 8-string ukes. I don't think they merit their own article, but a short sub-section explaining when/why those variants appeared would be awesome. I'm under the vague impression that Kamaka pioneered those, but not sure.

On a minor sidenote: is it even worth bringing up the subject of the "bass ukulele"? There have been a few one-off projects, mainly based on the Ashbory bass concept (with the thick silicon strings). I know at least a couple eletric versions exist, and have seen pics of one acoustic.

MatthewVanitas (talk) 11:20, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Pronunciation

Merriam-Webster Includes pronunciation and OED both give the pronunciation of the first syllable as "yoo" rather than "oo"; is "oo" a pronunciation in some language other than English?

--- Yes it is. The word 'ukulele is Hawai'ian, not English. In Hawai'ian, the language of origin, it is pronounced "oo koo lay lay". Most English speakers say "yoo koo lay lee" or "yoo ka lay lee". The Hawai'ian pronunciation is unquestionably the most "correct" pronunciation, as that is the way it was first pronounced. One can hardly argue with the English pronunciation's general use, however, as so many people have used it for so long.

--- In Hawai'i ukulele is pronounced "oo koo le le". Hawai'ian is phonetic with the w pronounced as a soft v, amongst other subtleties. Manuiti 19:07, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

--- Speaking of pronunciation, aren't the two phonetic representation in the title part exactly the same ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.190.194.194 (talk) 11:15, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

--- Does the note on the pronunciation really need to occupy such a primary position in the article? The introduction should get straight to the essential facts, not distract the reader with phonology. Lizmarie (talk) 15:54, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Too many parentheses.

It sounds to personal with all those parentheses. Can someone please clean that up?

I removed them where possible w/o changing the context. I'm not a music guy. The rest is OK. Mdoc7 05:05, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Translation

The word ukulele is translated as "jumping flea" to decribe the movement of a player's fingers on the neck's fretboard. (Source: "Jumpin Jim's Ukulele Tips 'N' Tunes", by Jim Beloff, Hal Leonard Publishing Corporation, April, 2004) I've never edited anything in Wikipedia before. I thought to add this, but I'll first learn a bit more about how to do that properly.)

following John King's article in the Hawaiian Journal of History issue #37, things don't seem so clear. There are evidences that the name 'ukelele could have been built upon the aggregation of the words uke, which means knocking on wood, and lele meaning jumping or strumming, while the word ukulele which describes the insect existed before the arrival of the machete in Hawaii. The rest of the article is really informative, and puts down a lot of clichés about the ukulele etymology. Ukepedia 05:09, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

--- Having grown up in Hawai'i, everyone defines ukulele as 'jumping flea' referring, as above, to the quick movement of the fingers whilst playing. Head lice are referred to as 'ukus' in everyday speak and the usual definition of 'lele' is jumping. The ukulele is also abbreviated when speaking to 'uke', never to 'uku'. Additionally, the most desired make of ukulele in Hawai'i is the Kamaka [1], all made of Koa wood. Manuiti 19:21, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Tangential Information

There's some not-so-important info included in the article. I know the feeling of wanting to put in your two cents, but does it matter so much that Bill Tapia bought a uke from Manuel Nunes? And is the info about the Beatles really that important? I know the Beatles are important, yes, but on this page? I think that stuff should be left out until this thing is a little more, you know, encyclopedic. Seems like we're still trying to get the basics down. I won't even go into people putting themselves on the "notable players" list. That's shameful.

[I've deleted the Beatles info (apologies to whoever posted it), but left in the George Harrison anecdote Angusmcdiarmid 12:08, 21 February 2006 (UTC)]

Check out "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" played on a UKE at this site: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1352016870638076087

Deleted tangential information about the process of breaking in nylon strings and cleaned up the alternate tunings section. 139.55.32.90 19:43, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Title

If the word actually begins with an ʻokina, then the title should be ʻukulele and ukulele should be a redirect. Ardric47 01:01, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

AFAIK, the correct english spelling is ukulele. Ukepedia 07:41, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

The title shows up in my browser an empty box and then "Ukulele" - don't know how many people this happens to, but it's probably the Wrong Thing. Move back to Ukulele? Robin Johnson 13:33, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Actually, it's a long-unfixed bug (one of many) in Internet Explorer browser (which hasn't seen many significant updates in years)—the bug isn't seen in Macintosh, nor in Mozilla or Firefox browsers. The {{okina}} template is a convenient way to embed the proper Unicode character (classified as a letter), which (contrary to popular belief) is not ‘ (classified as punctuation). Also, as a Hawaiʻi cultural topic, it seemed appropriate to use Hawaiian English, which by standard does mandate ʻokina and authentic pronunciation in all words and names of Hawaiian language origin. - Gilgamesh 15:21, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

I see it now (at home using Firefox.) Is it really worth getting it right it if so many users can't see it? I notice Hawaii does not. Robin Johnson 21:10, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

I can see it using Internet Explorer, version 6.0 SP2. Mdoc7 19:04, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Yeah...it's a work in progress, intermitted by Life(TM). And yes...it's absolutely worth it. Editing to "fix" articles just for the benefit of a browser with broken features that haven't been fixed in years...that's sloth, and it's POV. It's NPOV to go by established web and Unicode standards. - Gilgamesh 05:43, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Actually-- it's not a browser bug, but variations of different font character sets. --Mdoc7 03:13, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

The English Wikipedia is written in standard (British or American) English, not in Hawaiian English, except maybe in articles very specifically related to Hawaii, but this is not one of those. The ukulele may be of Hawaiian origin, but is now an instrument like any other, used all over the world. Accordingly, the vast majority of English-language references to it spell it without okina, even where otherwise diacritics are used (see the Britannica for example). It's like the name Hawaii itself, which is established in English without okina. Margana 13:12, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

As I understood it, it's not really established that Wikipedia is written in British or American English, but any relevant standard dialect (including Australian, Singaporean, South African, etc., etc.), and Hawaiian English is the only official standard of English in the State of Hawaiʻi. Also, the issue of even Hawaiʻi itself is not settled, and I routinely add the ʻokina in every context I come across. - Gilgamesh 13:25, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia uses the most common spellings. Use of Hawaiian English spellings is misleading for the majority of readers who are not Hawaiian, and thus should only be used in articles that are so specific to Hawaii that most of their readers are likely Hawaiian. I would dispute that ukulele is such an article. Margana 14:16, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Misleading how? They are the spellings. I thought that we were to use the variety of English closest to the subject, which is why it's supposed to be Hawaiʻi in every instance across Wikipedia. - Gilgamesh 15:18, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Because readers will think it's the standard English spelling when it's just the Hawaiian English spelling used only by a small fraction of English speakers. Who says it's supposed to be Hawaiʻi across Wikipedia? Surely that's not policy or consensus, given the location of the article Hawaii. Margana 15:59, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Seems like Wikipedia should be more interested in exposing its readers to information closest to the source rather than making them as comfortable as possible. It is far better to teach that great fraction of English-speakers about the Hawaiʻian language than to reinforce the lazy modifications imposed by outsiders. People should be coming to Wikipedia to expand their knowledge, not just reinforce what they already know.

Doesn't matter much to insist on the correct use of Hawaii with the okina, because some people will not bother to make the extra pen stroke to complete the word with an okina. That's because they're already used to the bland version. (As an aside, I mistakenly deleted the okina from the word Hawaii, until I realized my mistake minutes later and put it back. I guess this character key ` on my keyboard is the okina. I learned something, but it doesn't mean I'll use it, because it's "Hawaiian".) ---SO, if faced with a go or no-go choice to implement the okina, I would do this: implement the okina in the first mentioned word and call attention to it as the proper Hawaiian version, but delete the use of the okina in all the rest of the article. Reason? Readability. Mdoc7 08:05, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

I see that this is already done... heh heh. --Mdoc7 08:15, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

ʻUkulele Players

This list is getting long and silly. Can it be moved to another page and linked to from this one? I honestly don't know how to do that, but I hope someone will. It looks like it started out as a list of historically important figures, but has degenerated into a free-for-all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.56.99.71 (talk • contribs) 15:27, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

I broke it up into 4 columns. Mdoc7 18:27, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

It seems to be getting longer and sillier. Can I suggest we delete all the entries in this list that are either red links or external links. That way we have a better chance of ensuring that everyone in the list (a) exists and (b) is sufficiently notable to warrant a mention. -- Sakurambo 桜ん坊 00:43, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and done it anyway. -- Sakurambo 桜ん坊 10:59, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Why don't we just get rid of this section and make something like Category: American ukelele players, etc.? KConWiki 01:05, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

I de-redlinked the section, added William H. Macy ([2]), and alphabetized it by last name. Jimpoz (talk) 03:15, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

THe My Dog Has Flea mnemonic...

Any song by this name postdates to the use of the phrase in published teaching materials by decades, at least.

Are there any actual references concerning both the teaching materials and dates of publication of the song ? Ukepedia 21:52, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

That's beyond the scope of article, I'd say. But google it with the mnemonic in quotes. Mdoc7 02:12, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

beyond the scope ? maybe my question was unclear... anyway, googling the mnemonic http://www.google.com/search?q=%22my+dog+has+flea%22&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t http://www.google.com/search?q=%22my+dog+has+fleas%22&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t didn't bring much informations. Ukepedia 09:14, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

--- Don't know if there are any references or dates to 'My dogs has fleas'. But that is how I was taught at school in Hawai'i to tune my uke. I don't think it's actually a mnemonic as the keys aren't MDHF, it's to do with the tune you 'sing' those words in. Hope that helps. Manuiti 19:31, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Citation and links

I just read the whole article, and I have to say I'm disappointed in its quality. The article has far too few citations and far too many external links. Wikipedia is not a repository for external links, as interesting as they may be. The links need to be pared down to the ones that enhance the encyclopedic content of the article. As much as I think the video of Jake playing his ukulele is cool, it should really only be in the Jake Shimabukuro article. That's just one example. The blogs and fan sites need to go. The links to uke chords, tunings, and history (such as the Hall of Fame Museum) are probably pertinent. Otherwise most of it is fluff.

The history section could be filled out more. I'm sure there are reliable and verifable sources on ukulele history that can be cited. I see little on early Hawaiian ukulele history, especially as regards the Hawaiian royal family. I could also see a separate section on famous ukulele manufacturers. They only get a brief mention in the article. Although the article talks about Tin Pan Alley and the 20s, I think this was such an important phenomenon that it deserves a history sub-section also. The article could also include the importance of the ukulele in Hawaiian culture and its use in schools, etc.

The section on ukulele players, as mentioned earlier, should be a separate article. A brief introductory section (basically already in place) could be headed by a main article link.

- Parsa 18:00, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

I fully agree with you, and started by removing a bunch of external links. Upon inspection, nearly all of them seemed blatantly commercial or non-notable. --JereKrischel 18:25, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Restoring external links

Instead of restoring all the links, could we have a short justification on the talk page before adding them in one by one? --JereKrischel 06:24, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

For goodness sakes, most of them seem useful. I know I've used most of them since getting my uke. I say we justify taking them off. AliaGemma 04:26, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

For the record, here are my stay and go lists with some justification:

Stay:

• Ukulele Hall of Fame Museum - non-profit organization, lists uke festivals
• Hawaiian Concert Guide Podcast - lots of sound files of Hawaiian uke music
• Interactive ukulele lessons for beginners (Under Construction) -

  nice site but not necessary, very recent website and makes much use of flash in a way that could interfere with usability for several users

• Several tutorials and videos about strumming, fingerpicking patterns, and a ukulele online radio

  This one is more stable, older and its accessibility is fine

• Ukulele Chord Finder - awesome chord finder, very useful

  but not ukulele specific. Shouldn't a similar algorithm be explained somewhere else on wikipedia so we can have an internal link instead of this one ?

• Ukulele tabs page, goofy stuff, uke info - very good tabs page, especially since it has chord diagrams on the song pages
• UkeWiki - how can we not support a uke wiki?

  when it's borndead, have a look at the RC on this one...

• Build your own Ukulele - useful not to just people who want to make their own, but also to those just interested in how they are made

  not sure, a specialist in lutherie should first check the validity of this page.

• Interactive ukulele chord finder - very good chord finder plus play alongs

  but this (excellent) website may someday encounter copyright issues

Could Probably Go:

• Ukulele blog

  not sure this one should go, this is the most read and oldest website dedicated to ukulele news.

• Videos of past and present ukulele players -
• Learn how to build/make your own Ukulele - can definitely be deleted, the following (in the article) link is the new URL
• "Uke Yak" at fleamarketmusic Questions answered by Chuck Fayne, featured collector of Jim Beloff's The Ukulele: A Visual History -

  agree on this one, though there is definitely excellent reference material there, the site lacks a proper way to index informations and find it back.

• Video of Jake Shimabukuro playing While My Guitar Gently Weeps by George Harrison
• Langley Ukulele Ensemble
• UkeCast - Ukulele Podcast
• www.tikiking.com

  the main website is not only ukulele related, but there's somewhere a ukulele database that may be linked until there's a better alternative

• Ukulelia - the ukulele blog - can definitely be deleted, it's a duplicate

  right but this one has the correct text

• Territorial Airwaves Your Source for the History of Hawaiian Music.

AliaGemma 05:08, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

observations above. Ukepedia 09:11, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the justifications. Seems reasonable to me. --JereKrischel 02:26, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

clean-up tag

I put in a general rewrite clean-up tag. Frankly, this article is a poster-child for critics of Wikipedia. It could be more coherent and expanded upon. There's a section about an entirely different instrument. There are missing references. It's flow is awful. Please, someone, help the ukulele! Paxsimius 19:43, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

I removed this tag since it has been a month without any discussion about why this article needs a "complete rewrite". I really can't say I agree that this is a "poster child for critics of Wikipedia" -- I love the uke, but in the grand scheme of things, it's not that important anyway -- and the things you're talking about don't require this kind of maintenance tag. Specifics would help, and, of course, you can be bold and add it yourself too. 71.42.141.247 21:58, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

How To

I have used this page for "how to" advice and found it useful. Is there some overall directive against this sort of information in Wikipedia? 203.97.57.130 02:46, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

List removal

The list of ukulele players in this article was becoming both excessively long and unencyclopedic. Rather than being a helpful list of musicians known primarily for their ukulele ability, it had turned into a listing of virtually any well-known person who had played a ukulele in their lifetime, with people like Kurt Cobain, Tom Hanks, Stephen Colbert, and Abraham Lincoln included, among others. Keep in mind that just playing a ukulele at some point doesn't demonstrate notability; the listing here was clearly not intended to take such a form.

After checking other articles on instruments (and noting that hardly any had such a list as part of their article), I forked off the content into List of ukulele musicians and created the related category of Category:Ukulele musicians. You'll note that the list is much, much shorter, as I went through it and removed the names of any musicians who were not known for playing the ukulele as their primary instrument.

If any editors disagree with this move and can think of policy-based reasons to contest it, I'm fine discussing it here. If you want take up the question of who belongs on the list itself, though, head over to Talk:List of ukulele musicians, which is a more appropriate venue for that discussion. Thanks. Tijuana Brass (talk) 00:02, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Tunings

The sentence in the ``Tunings`` section

Those who are familiar with ukulele chords will find that the same chord shapes will fit these tunings, but that the chords will be transposed and inverted.

Appears to make no sense in context. At best it's recursive/trivial. This section is talking about ukulele tunings so ukulele chords will trivially fit these tunings. However, since the 4 strings have the same relationship as the top 4 strings on the guitar (taking into account the reentrancy of the 4th string) the statement is true and useful if 'guitar' is substituted for 'ukulele'. I scanned the edit history and couldn't find any record of changes to this sentence, it seems to be an early typo. DanTappan (talk) 19:59, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

I think it may have been correct originally, actually - note that the section you were in is talking about tuning for the Tahitian ukulele, which differs from the more common forms. Tijuana Brass (talk) 21:03, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

You are probably right, so I've reverted the change. I think it might help clarity if the tunings for the standard ukes were broken out into a section instead of scattered throughout other parts of the article. DanTappan (talk) 23:54, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Can someone please specify in the article the octaves for the tunings? (with middle c = C4) Thanks. Mauvila (talk) 04:16, 26 February 2008 (UTC)