John Calipari

Note to readers: This is an experimental RfA based on the discussion on the RfA talk page. People will be given four days starting from Tuesday 7 October to ask questions and generally review the candidate. On Saturday 11 October, the discussion and questioning section will be closed and the voting section will open up. This is, despite the experimental nature, a serious RfA; I'd appreciate if people vote based on the user, not the process.

Ironholds

Voice your opinion (talk page) (6/3/1); Scheduled to end 18:52, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Ironholds (talk · contribs)

I have an extraordinary respect for Ironholds. He has brought a peerless degree of intelligence, sincerity and dedication to this project. As an editor, he has worked tirelessly to expand the depth and scope of Wikipedia’s contents, both through the creation of original content and in his insightful observations within the AfD process. He also does a find job identifying articles deserving of Speedy Deletion and, where applicable, reporting users who violate Wikipedia policies. In his communications with his fellow editors, Ironholds displays maturity and good spirit, which helps to solidify the positive aspects of our community. By offering his candidacy in this variation of the RfA vehicle (which most of us agree is not working), he continues to show his passion for improving Wikipedia’s operations. By nominating Ironholds for adminship, I believe Wikipedia will be well served by this wonderful individual. Ecoleetage (talk) 18:54, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Candidate, please indicate acceptance of the nomination here:I accept. Thanks to Ecoleetage for his kind words :).Ironholds 18:57, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Questions for the candidate 1-10

Dear candidate, thank you for offering to serve Wikipedia as an administrator. It is recommended that you answer these optional questions to provide guidance for participants:

1. What administrative work do you intend to take part in?

A: Speedy Deletion candidates are something I'd like to focus on; several times while patrolling New Pages i've had to wait around for 25-30 minutes due to the lack of an admin, hitting F5 on my watchlist every few seconds to make sure people dont remove the speedy tags on their pages. Did You Know is my second and not-so-commonly-picked area to focus on; I've written quite a few and there's been occasions where the DYK's haven't been switched over for several hours.

2. What are your best contributions to Wikipedia, and why?

A: I tend to focus on obscure area's people haven't heard off, having encountered the common problem that area's I'm an expert on have already written about by someone far more knowledgeable than myself, so I can't claim any FA's or GA's. The 21 DYK's (and another three confirmed and awaiting posting) are something I'm quite proud of, although I know (within reason) that having a DYK on an article is not a measure of the article's quality. I did once try for a Featured List (List of Stewards of the Manor of Northstead) which didn't go through but i'm still proud of; see before and after. The before is actually a bit deceptive; Most of those bluelinks were red when I started, but I created a load of articles (I think about 100, mainly stubs, about 10 decent big'uns) to bluelink it all up.

3. Have you been in any conflicts over editing in the past or have other users caused you stress? How have you dealt with it and how will you deal with it in the future?

A: No major conflicts that I can really think of. There was an argument over the clash between Wikipedia:Radio Wikipedia and Wikipedia:WikiUpdate which ended with uninvolved users generally telling everyone to shut the hell up. I was partially involved in that, and since then i've tried to serve as the voice of reason rather than the voice of "quick! more pitchforks!", such as at User:SoWhy's RfA, moving the discussion from the RfA before it could become the main focus of attention and trying to calm people down.

Optional Question from Davewild

4. Do you think you have addressed the concerns raised in your previous RFA's? If yes, could you explain how? Thanks. Davewild (talk) 18:07, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

A:I believe I've addressed them, yes. The issues in the first two RfA's were no-brainers; even I (as I am now) wouldn't have me; I had barely 3000 edits of recategorising and general wiki-gnoming, a wildly fluctuating edit count between months and wouldn't have even known what the abbreviations CSD, XfD or ANI even meant. The third one was more interesting; some of the opposes came from me having a cynical and slightly offensive atheism-related userbox on my page (similar to that of SoWhy's RfA) while most were to do with real editing concerns. Chief among them were a complete lack of article work, bite-y tone, lack of WP:ANI contributions and some really inappropriate MfDing of userpages that verged (barely) on policy violations. I took some time off constant CSD and Recent Changes patrol, which definitely helped the stress levels and thereby the biteyness; since then I've tried to be more polite to new users (especially considering that, after a year and a half of edits, I knew barely more than they did). I've also been doing a lot of article work and have developed a real love of filling in redlinks and expanding articles; i've had 23 DYK's so far, all but 2 for new articles. I've also worked on trying to get the List of Stewards of the Manor of Northstead (see diffs in Q.2) up to Featured status; it didn't pass due to silly grammar and style issues, but I'm going to try again once I've finished my current "things to do" (which stands at about 20 bio's, getting a legal court to GA status and 5 lists of redlinks). ANI contributions are something I've been more involved in, and that and the inappropriate MfDing and so on have been helped by me trying to abide by the spirit rather than the text; the rule should be that if you have to twist and think to work out how something should be deleted, it shouldn't. Another (rather embarassing) complaint at my RfA was that I failed to capitalise my i's; this I've corrected and now make a conscious effort to do so. Ironholds 18:21, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Optional Question from Wisdom89

5. What do you consider to be your biggest weakness on Wikipedia? Once identified, do you feel it will/can hamper your ability to work as an administrator?

A: I'm not the best person with the english language, by which I mean that I'll never churn out an entire FA or perfectly-phrased soliloquy. I don't feel this should harm my work as an administrator; I can fix my phrasing by simply working through the sentence in my head a few times (although this can be a long process when dealing with 40KB of text, hence my FA example). Ironholds 18:23, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Optional question from AGK

6. You previously edited under the O keyes account, and indeed had two RfAs whilst using that persona. Why (excluding any privacy reasons, which I will understand if omitted in any response) did you change your username? Did the change have anything to do with avoiding the somewhat curious "...4" after your RfA (specifically, one user requesting an RfA four times as one account may be regarded as power-hungry)? Anthøny ✉ 18:56, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

A. Nothing like that; after all, the previous 3 still show up in a little box on the side. As cliched and, at best symbolic, as it sounds, I fancied a change. I previously linked to my old account contributions on my userpage for the sake of honesty, but it seems to have got lost in the shuffle of redesigns. Ironholds 19:21, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Follow-up. That response seems to put any worries I previously had to bed. Thanks for responding. Anthøny ✉ 20:02, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

No problem; thanks for bringing it up, actually, I'd completely forgotten to link the account name in as part of my userpage redesign, and this reminded me. Ironholds (talk) 20:17, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Option question for IMatthew

7. In your own words, what is the role of an administrator on Wikipedia?

A.None of the normal phrases are applicable to the role, to be honest, although I use "banhammer" sometimes because I find it amusing. Banhammer implies that their job is to hit people with the heavy end when they mess up, "mop and bucket" makes them sound like some kind of Ubermensch, superior to us mere mortals and tasked with cleaning up our foolish, ignorant mistakes, which again is heavily inaccurate. An administrator to me is a user who has shown, through the RfA process, that he is trusted by the community (or at least the microcosm that spends time around RfA). He/She (lets say "he" for the rest of this for simplicity) is granted tools additional to those that a standard user can access because he has shown that he can be trusted not to misuse them (although misuse does, on occasion, happen). Being an administrator does not make you "better" than other users, it simply makes you more communally trusted. I'm sorry if I've repeated myself at any stage, but I believe that emphasising the difference between "more trusted" and "better" is something that needs to be firmly ingrained in peoples heads.Ironholds 19:21, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Questions from Garden.

8. How seriously do you feel the role of admin is taken on Wikipedia? Do you feel that you agree with this?

A.The role of administrator is taken too seriously and not too seriously depending on the user. Many people seem to go between "adminship is a big deal" and "to quoth Jimbo, adminship is not a big deal" without looking at the details. Becoming an admin and the title of administrator is not a big deal, but using the tools and responsibilities correctly is. This is my (personal) opinion and something I feel is oft-overlooked. So in a nutshell: People take it too seriously and not seriously enough, with very few people in the middle. But then everyone with an opinion has the (majority) of people on either side of their fine line. Ironholds 23:42, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

9. Will having the admin status hamper your article contributions? Will you continue to do both of the highly important roles of sysop and editor?

A.My editing time is normally divided thus: Write a bio/list. If I finish it in one session, write another one. If i'm bored of writing, do some quick New Page Patrolling or investigate any AfD's around, including those I start as part of my new page work. Holding administrator tools would not reduce my "proper editing" output since I genuinely enjoy writing; If I get bored of writing for an hour and look through New Pages I can actually get more work done in that position as an administrator, since after tagging a group of articles I don't have to sit around for 20 minutes on my Watchlist hitting F5 to make sure there's no improper removal of tags. CSD work and so on also gets boring on its own; that combined with my love for writing on one side, and the grind of article creation on the other means that neither type of contribution is going to take over my editing time completely.

10. Do you feel having so many RfAs makes one seem power hungry? How can you quash these claims by way of what you would like the tools for?

A.Three previous RfA's indicates "this person was not judged a fit person to hold the tools" not "this person wants power for powers sake". I've applied for admin each time because I feel I can do good with the tools, not because I want to be some kind of uber dictator; I think my answers to previous questions show that that's exactly the opposite of my opinion of what an Administrator is.

Questions 11 through 15

Question from Caulde

11. In your opinion, what do you think is the most commonly applied of all Wikipedia's 'policies' and why so? Do you agree it should be the most prevalent? Caulde 20:21, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

The most widely enforced and applied policy is Wikipedia:BLP without a doubt, and for good reason. Wikipedia is one of the most widely viewed sites in the world, with a massively high search engine rating; "jennifer aniston" in google, for example, brings Wikipedia up in second place, and many people, however unwisely given complaints about its accuracy, use Wikipedia as a primary reference tool. Celebrities are people, and information posted on Wikipedia can shape how people view them, be it standard biographical information or offensive lies. As such, Wikipedia should constantly adhere to the policy, both to prevent any offense or harm coming to the articles subject and to prevent any kind of legal repercussions on the foundation. Ironholds 23:42, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

12. Do you feel that upon failing three RfA's your best course of action is to return with an experimental RfA? Please answer with consideration to the regular cycle of discussions concerning "how to fix RfA", "the mop is no big deal", "power hunger", and "drama for the sake of drama". Hiberniantears (talk) 20:52, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

I find it quite offensive that people would assume that, although I can see why they would in a way. My choice of an experimental process is nothing to do with my previous failures under the old system, it is simply that someone has to go first, and I had previously considered rerunning anyway, having received several "I'd support you looking at your contributions now" messages and also a nomination offer. RfA discussions are like economic cycles; the boom and bust always comes round again. Every so often there is a mass debate where everyone agrees the current system is broken but nobody can agree exactly how it should be fixed. I decided it would be a good idea to just go right ahead, cut through the mass-debating and just run with a new idea. If it works, we've offered a possibility of a new system; if it doesn't, we've ruled something out for future debates. Either way we've made progress, although I doubt the debate will ever be resolved (My normal phrase is "when you have two wikipedians, you have three opinions"). I don't think its for the sake of drama, as I said earlier, people agree things need changing, but not what; should the process be reformed? The general philosophy? if it is process, what should we reform it to? I feel constantly debating over what is or is not the best way to reform something is not productive in something that comes up again and againIronholds 23:42, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Optional questions from Jameson L. Tai

13. How do you feel about being the first RfA to test the new RfA process? Do you feel this new process is better than the other three processes you've experienced? How?

A.I'm fine with the idea; I volunteered for it after all :). This process is significantly different, in some obvious ways and some less obvious ones. I feel the system is better in that it seeks to test the candidate rather than base it on their past activities. If someone joins soley to become admin then, with the appropriate caution, they can create a perfect resume. 4 days of being probed on everything from process to process reform is more difficult to fake. This isn't something that affects me, obviously (anyone looking at my first 2 RfA's can see that if my aim was to become admin I did a piss-poor job of it), but it might help weed out a couple of "bad apples" that might otherwise get in, and maybe help out a couple of potentially fantastic admins who's contributions don't fit the typical "requirements" for an administrator. Ironholds 23:42, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

14. How do you see Wikipedia in five years? What types of improvements or changes to do you see happening?

A. I'm not sure if we'll go through another catalytic process like that of 2003/2004, but I do see Wikipedia growing a lot bigger. I'm also thinking we'll see a mass shift in the next few years to quality over quantity. We currently have 10 active proposals for defining the WP:N guidelines to a finer degree, including things as varied as toys and political parties. Drawing a finer line in the sand will firmly keep out articles that don't have a place and, with a reducing number of new articles in relation to the growth of the userbase, switch the focus to improving the quality of articles. At the same time the near-current introduction of things such as flagged revisions should reduce vandalism, raising Wikipedia's reputation as an encyclopedia, rather than as happened last week, when 3 of my university tutors in seperate speeches about dissertations told us not to touch wikipedia with a vandal-encrusted pole. These could together cause problems; instruction creep through things like larger and more specific notability guidelines could bog the encyclopedia down, and following the principle of Incrementalism this could prove a problem; "items which were once deemed to be insufficiently notable to have articles may eventually prove notable enough for an entry" will not have an entry created due to the increasing complexity of process making overturning outdated rules difficult at best. Overall wikipedia will become more established and/or more bogged down in paperwork, although some would say this has been happening right from the beginning. Ironholds 23:42, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

15. There has been a shift of how the community votes for RfA. Please list your personal guidelines of what you look for when supporting or opposing a candidate.

A.

I'm going to post this in list for for simplicities sake, I'm afraid

• A high, regular edit count is required, emphasis on the regular. If the candidate made 20,000 edits a month 6 months ago (a bit OTT as an example, I know) and few since I have no way of seeing if he (for simplicity) has a good grasp of Wikipedia policy as it currently stands.

  FA's and GA's coming out of their ears is not a requirement. Despite points that admin tools are for varied tasks, most are used for two things: removing vandalism, and preventing it happening again. People argue that an admin should have a firm grasp of all policy; this is not a requirement for me. If a user has 100+ AIV reports and 1000 CSD's, all good nominations, then I trust he is an experienced editor in regards to those areas. If the users other contributions show a level of maturity and civility then I also trust that the user will not head right off to an area he has no firm grasp of; an AV editor is, when given the tools, not going to jump right into mediation work.

  Lack of blocks, general incivility or immaturity in the last 3 months (or more, depending on the ol' gut). I don't need to see that a user is a squeaky clean, perfect person who is cheery and lovely to everyone regardless of their behavior; this in most cases smacks of a user either in it for the tools or starting each day with a vallium enema. If a user has shown in their recent contributions either change or the ability to change, I will support or go neutral (again, the gut).Ironholds 00:23, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Questions 16 through 21

Optional questions from Erik the Red 2

16. Which has priority, WP:V or WP:BLP? In other words, should a verifiable fact be added to an article if it infringes of the privacy of a living person?

In my opinion, BLP. If a perfectly verifiable fact infringes on a persons privacy it should be removed; we're an encyclopedia, not a gossip magazine or telephone directory. We have a moral responsibility, upon finding the address and phone number of Jennifer Aniston, to make sure that she isn't phoned day and night by everyone who can use a keyboard, and a legal responsibility to make sure that the Foundation isn't sued. Here in a world of near-perfect anonymity, should a user choose it, it is easy to forget privacy concerns. Think how unnerving people like Daniel Brandt are to any Wikipedia user who raises his head above the parapet, and imagine if his site was visited by millions of people yearly. The argument that it is "verifiable, publicly findeable" information may hold sway in a law of court, but morally it is a different story; regardless of whether or not the person is a celebrity, and "should be used to it", people have a basic, undeniable right to privacy. Ironholds 00:23, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

17. A user makes an insertion of a potential BLP violation, which is reverted by another user. There is a revert war, and the first user reports the second to WP:AN3 after 4 reverts. Do you block the second user?

No. It isn't a case of "oh, the second user reverted first", as I mentioned before the maintenance of high quality, accurate BLP articles is of the utmost importance, and the 3RR policy specifically mentions the reversion of libelous or possibly damaging BLP information as an exception to the rule. I would, however, advise the second user of what he should have done and should do in future situations (Get in a third party or admin before it got to the 3RR violation point). The first user would be informed of our policies on BLP's, and again asked to get a third opinion in next time. I'd then keep an eye on both of them and the article itself until things cool down. Ironholds 00:23, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

18. A user is reported to AIV for vandalism after making 5 vandalistic edits. However, the first edit was reverted and the user wasn't warned, meaning that the user has not committed any vandalism after the final warning. Do you block the user?

If his only contributions, including those 4 are vandalistic, yes, indefinitely; regardless of a "final warning" if three warnings of progressive severity which specifically mention blocks are not enough to dissuade him he's unlikely to be a helpful contributor.Ironholds 00:23, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Optional questions from Kww (talk · contribs)

In Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/3D Ordnance Battalion, you fought pretty hard for the losing side: you wanted deletion, and it wound up being kept. You kept your cool and argued calmly, which is a good thing, but something struck me about this AFD: no one, including you, referenced any existing guidelines or policies. MrPrada came closest, referencing MILMOS, but that hasn't got much weight in an AFD discussion. I have three questions related to this AFD discussion:

19. How much weight does an individual editor's intuitive opinion of notability count for in an AFD?

AIf he can back it up, as much as his vocal skills allow. AfD is a debate: If a user is backed up by policy, he has the upper hand, but notability policies are interpreted; you can't just apply the same policy to every situation under the sun. If a users intuitive opinion of notability can be expressed clearly (as I seem to be failing to do, heh) in relation to the policy and the situation at hand then his opinion should have just as much weight as anyone elses. Whether or not the other users involved agree with his intuition and interpretation is another matter, but someone should not be discounted just because he used words instead of TLA's.

20. You stated during the debate I dont think press coverage for military units is a good way of defining their notability. How do you think our policy of WP:NOT#NEWS and our guideline of WP:N interact with that argument?

AThe press coverage argument was based on the point that, as a unit involved in a war, there are no doubt going to be a load of newspaper articles, particularly since they deal with IED's, a well-known presence in the current wars. The issue is: are they independently notable? WP:NOT#NEWS says that not everything in the news requires an article, with the general rule being that if something/someone is notable beyond a single event, they're probably notable enough for an article. Me saying "delete" was not in relation to the NEWS policy, however, but rather to my interpretation of the WP:N policy. WP:N accepts "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject". My problem with the provided sources was that they were not, for the most part, "significant coverage"; an unexploded bomb is found near their base, they defuse it, they write a newspaper article about the bomb that, as the unit defused it, makes mention of the unit and gets an officer in for a quote. How does that make the unit notable? Bomb defusal is their job; if the bomb had been closer to another engineer battalion's base, they would have been tasked with defusing the bomb. Several of the newspaper reports are from the Yakima Herald Republic; the base that unit is at uses the Yakima Training Center for live firing; hardly a bastion of independent neutrality. The majority of the newspaper sources were either insubstantial or not independent. Many military units, in a time of war, are going to get newspaper reports due to their presence in a theatre of action; nothing sells newspapers more than war and bloodshed. But does this make the unit notable in itself, or as part of the military? My feeling is that the unit would not be considered notable regardless of training or their "elite" status if it wasn't for their presence in a news-worthy arena. Ironholds 11:24, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

21. If you were the closing admin, how would you evaluate the consensus? What weight would you give to each editor's arguments, and why?

AI'd probably close as "keep" myself. While no policies or guidelines were really mentioned (other than a MILHIST essay, which doesn't really count) the newspaper reports make a "keep" the better idea. As much as I believe it should be deleted, the argument I made at the time isn't strong enough to convince a closing admin. In a situation when it's marginal, a keep is the better idea; it can always be renominated, and it's best not to set a precedent of "delete" since restoring deleted articles is much more difficult than renominating a kept one. Ironholds 11:24, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Questions 21 through 25

Optional Question from Balloonman:

Preface Wow, I consider myself to be one of the tougher reviewers at RfA as I oppose 43% of the time, but you seem to take the cake. As of this moment, you've participated in exactly 40 RfA's. Of those 40 RfA's, you've opposed 75% of the time. You've only supported 10 candidates---4 of your supports have come in the past two weeks!

22 Why do you oppose so often?

AI like to follow a WP-specific variant of Speaker Denison's rule; to wit, it is much more difficult to have a bad admin after he has succeeded than it is to renominate a good candidate who has failed. As such, when I vote on RfA's it's normally with the intention of preventing someone I feel could be a bad admin from getting the tools; good candidates will garner enough supports that one from me wouldn't make a difference. Actually it'd be 9 supports; 2 were the FoxyLoxy RfA and then reboot.Ironholds 11:24, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

23 I know you are aware of the recent discussions here related to the lack of new admins. How might this discussion affect your future involvement here?

AAttitudes are a difficult thing to change; changing the opinions and temperament of over 100 editors? I do partially buy that attitudes are a problem, but it's far to difficult a thing to effectively change. The discussion has given me food for thought, but much of it doesn't apply to me; when I contribute to RfA's I always try and be civil, not contribute to drama (as at SoWhy's RfA, although that simply moved it to a different page) and not generally tear the candidate a new one. The comments on SNOW's, however, has made me think; I feel i'm not going to recommend any kind of SNOWing in future, although I have in the past recommended to a candidate on their talkpage that they withdraw. A fuller process would give the candidate a better idea of what he is doing wrong; I know I learnt more from my third RfA than the first and second, which were early closers.

In terms of "RfA philosophy" the discussion has made me reconsider that, in the past, i've opposed on maybe a single difference. As seen in my RfA criterion above, within reason this is no longer a reason to oppose (on its own). The discussion, however, was the straw that broke the camels back; my viewpoint had already changed before then, just like my massive shift from deletionism in early '08. Ironholds 11:24, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

24 You've had 3 failed RfA's, in the discussion, an established admin wrote: One of the biggest problems with RfA's are the Chronic opposers and the sheep that pile-on per them. There are some bitter people on this project who have been on the receiving end of some RFA abuse and now they're hell bent on bringing down anyone they can. It's obvious in looking over the RFAs from recent months, and it's terribly unfortunate. It seems to be a "if I can't have admin, no one can" sort of mentality. What would you say to people who share this view that applying this statement to you would be a mischaracterization?

AI'm taking the question to mean "what can you say to people who assume that you may be one of these 'bitter people'"; if I'm misunderstanding, my apologies. I've never taken that kind of viewpoint; as I said, looking back on it I (as I am now) wouldn't have voted for me on my first two RfA's, where I was woefully underprepared and inexperienced. I can't possibly hold any "grudge" with the community for those, nor for most of my third, where some excellent points were made. The only slightly frustrating part of the third RfA was the "userbox opposes". A users personal biases should not be an issue as long as they don't come up in his contributions; everyone is biased in some way. I understand where people were coming from, however, and appreciate that in most cases it was not the sole reason, and I hold no "grudge" there either, something evidenced at SoWhy's RfA where a user (Andrew Kelly) expressed a view that he "couldn't vote in an atheist" as a strict christian. Despite a disagreement with this sort of viewpoint I will defend to the hilt someones right to express it, on my RfA and on any other, and trust that, should it get particularly ridiculous, the closing 'crat will discount it. I have no grudge with the community, RfA group or otherwise, and i'd point out that someone who had this view of "if I can't have admin, no one can" would have voted oppose consistently; if I'm a voter with a grudge, I'm really bad at my job! Ironholds 11:24, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Optional question from xenocidic

25. As an administrator, you will come across some extremely vulgar language and often come under attack for your actions. You will most likely have to deal with some fairly troublesome users. The users you block will sometimes ask to be unblocked. Please review the very NSFW scenario outlined at User:Xenocidic/RFAQ and describe how you would respond to the IP's request to be unblocked.

A:Deny it. His previous behavior gives no indication that he'll be anything other than a nuisance, and the posting of a nice pretty unblock request immediately after calling me a cockfag makes him look like he's simply being a weasle and trying to butter me up. If the 11:18 post had been the most recent one, maybe an unblock with a strict eye kept on him, but vandalism following his sole edit shows that it's more like he's done contributing usefully than "done vandalising". Ironholds 16:11, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Note: This question struck me as a bit of a "trick"; I was of the opinion administrators shouldn't fiddle with their own blocks. I've left the answer anyway; to hide it would undermine the process. Ironholds

Questions 26 through 30

Optional question from Wronkiew

26 You disclosed on your userpage, perhaps jokingly, that you have a history of mental illness. Are there any conditions in which this would interfere with your ability to participate in consensus reality?

No, no joke. I suffer from now-mild clinical depression, helpfully controlled with a little white pill once a morning. I've also got Asperger syndrome, although too midly to be properly useful. You know those wonderful autistic savants who can do fantastic things with their minds? Yeah, i'm nothing like that. I can't think of any situation in which these would affect my judgement or perspective; one is nicely under control, and the other is too weedy to be good for anything. Ironholds (talk) 01:10, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Question from Pedro

27. One of the key abilities in administrators is the ability to accurately judge consensus, wether it be at WP:AFD, deciding to archive a discussion, or to make edits requested on the talk of a protected article. If you find that there is no consenus for granting you +sysop (i.e. before the "voting" begins on the 11th and from a close reading of the discussion here) will you withdraw this RFA?

A.Yes. The only reason to continue would be a "lets see what I'm doing wrong" thing, but if there are enough signs that people will be voting oppose I expect them to have reasoning attached, making waiting around a waste of time. Ironholds (talk) 13:26, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Impressive response. Pedro :  Chat  13:34, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Optional question from User:EdJohnston I'd like to provide a central place for you to respond to issues mentioned by Oppose or Neutral voters in your last RfA, if you care to do so. If you already answered any of these above, then you don't need to here. I numbered these for convenience. Add your answer under each item if you wish. EdJohnston (talk) 17:17, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

28.not enough article work

I've been working on articles almost constantly since my first one, Thomas Prince in mid july, one I'm very proud of as a first stab (although I need to get round to adding inlines at some point). I've just completed a fully referenced five-fold expansion of an article, and my 23rd DYK was stuck up just yesterday evening. Article work is no longer an issue; I've grown to love creating and expanding articles (As I type this I've got another tab open with an article I'm expanding). Ironholds (talk) 17:54, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

29.the candidate seems a bit too biased in regards to deletion/inclusion criteria

I was very deletion-friendly, yes. That's changed completely, although I can't pinpoint an exact moment when that happened, I think it was more of a gradual change. I think most deletionists probably experience a slide towards the middle at some point. Point is: I wouldn't define myself as a "deletionist" any more or even an inclusionist; more a policyist. If policy says it should be deleted and common sense raises no questions, I'll go with delete, but if you're having to twist or "interpret" notability policies it's a good sign that the article is worthy; bad ones would be in violation of WP:N off the bat without any kind of word games. Ironholds (talk) 17:54, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

30.you have little experience of WP:ANI, something infamously valuable as an administrator

It isn't something I've had much reason to look at. Disruptive editors I encounter during my AV patrols are normally so disruptive I can just send them to AIV, where I have 172 reports as of the beginning of this RfA. I participated once, I believe, during the WikiUpdate/Radio Wikipedia thing (which was a bloody stupid ANI report, I'm glad I wasn't the one who submitted it) but as I said, my editing doesn't lead me to the point where I get involved there. Ironholds (talk) 17:54, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Questions 31 through 40

31.I am concerned with your lack of experience in basically anything non-Twinkle, especially in article contribution

This again has changed; see my answer to question 1 for most of it. As well as the article creation and expansion I've also done quite a bit of Gnomish work without twinkly assistance, and I've even had to do CSD reports manually (shock horror!). Ironholds (talk) 17:54, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

32.I've seen some pretty bitey and borderline reports to WP:UAA, which I can only assume is an area where they will end up working.

Definitely something that has changed. UAA reports I make now are neutrally toned and only if I'm certain. Example from my last report: A user who's name is something like CarlssonPR. He creates a db-spamtastic article on a housing development in area X, and searching for Carlsson PR brings up a PR company in area X; clearly here for promotional purposes. Ironholds (talk) 17:54, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

33.I am concerned about the user's lack of non-twinkle experience. If I was you, I would have waited for a reply on admin coaching before self-noming. I personally am scared about his only 32 mainspace talk edits.

Lack of non-twinkling already answered. Self-noming, here not an issue; as for the admin coaching; I still haven't recieved any coaching response. Mainspace talk is 130; the article-writing area's I work in are not those many people frequent (13th century civil servants, anyone?) so there isn't much to say to people; I do run into users (User:Choess springs to mind, an excellent writer) but if I'm making a general comment about an article (example was "Is it "Lord Chief Justice" for the court of common pleas or "Chief Justice"? My source says one, yours says another") then the quickest way to make the user in question aware of my query is their user talk page, not article talk. Ironholds (talk) 17:54, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

34.I was floating around on MfD earlier and my main thought on seeing your massive pile of contributions to it was that "Wow, this guy needs to relax and stop scouring peoples' userspaces for trivial violations",

Another thing I've stopped, something related to my shift from deletionism and my "stop acting like a jerk and contribute to areas of the encyclopedia people actually go to" attitude change. Ironholds (talk) 17:54, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

35.things like the MfD and other errors around the deletion process make me too wary to support.

See the question above for the first bit. As for deletion: User:Dlohcierekim below says I've tagged about 100 pages, three of which have been rejected, and in two of those cases my original tagging was valid. The normal reason I find for rejected tags is (for example) a user creates a spamtastic article. I tag it as db-spam, the user removes everything spammy and an admin gets there before I do. When I make a mistake in CSD's or the problem is corrected, I remove the tags; I know i'm not above making base errors. I've on occasion helped people reference and fulfill WP:N correctly when there's a subject that should be kept but the article on that subject doesn't fulfill guidelines; see Bang Bang Eche for example (although that'n needs to be referenced, funny, I thought i'd told him how to do that). Thanks for the valid questions, btw; if this format picks on I think "address concerns at the last RfA" should be a general set of questions for those with previous requests. Ironholds (talk) 17:54, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Of the last 500 deleted contribs (when I looked that day), atleast 350 were successful CSD taggings. Ironholds has a total of 3095 deleted contribs. Cheers, Dlohcierekim 18:31, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Additional pointer to that: I've never had a deleted article. 99% of those are therefore AfD's, PRODs or CSD's, with a percentage for maybe something I Wikignomed and was later deleted (although with the articles I look at I can't see that happening). Ironholds (talk) 18:46, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Optional question from PXK ^T /_C

36. Do you think consensus can change based on new Reliable sources? (This is basically the question that got iMatt raped in his RfA PXK ^T /_C 22:15, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Assuming you mean "If I provide Reliable sources counter to the opinion of Consensus, which has no reliable/few reliable sources, should consensus change" then yes. There is a philosophical theory in epistemology called the Three Condition Theory which sums up my view; in order for something to be considered "fact" (lets say A says that X is true) A must believe X, be able to present evidence X is true and lastly, X must be true. If consensus believes X, has evidence X is true but later, more substantial evidence turns up that X is false, consensus should change. one piece of verifiable information trumps a thousand Tom, Dick, and Harry editors simply agreeing that something took place. Ironholds (talk) 23:01, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Optional questions from jc37

(If you feel you have already answered one of these specific questions above, please point to that response.)

In order to illustrate that you have at least a passing knowledge/understanding of the policies and processes in relation to the tools and responsibilities that go along with adminship, please answer the following questions:

• 37. Please describe/summarise why and when it would be appropriate for:

• 37a. ...an editor to be blocked?

• A:

• 37b. ...a page to be protected?

• A:

• 37c. ...a page to be speedily deleted?

• A:

• 37d. ...the policy to ignore all rules to be applied to a situation?

• A:

• 38. How does one determine consensus? And how may it be determined differently on a talk page discussion, an XfD discussion, and a DRV discussion.

• A:

• 39. User:JohnQ leaves a message on your talk page that User:JohnDoe and User:JaneRoe have been reverting an article back and forth, each to their own preferred version. What steps would you take?

• A:

• 40. Why do you wish to be an administrator?

• A:

Questions 41-50

More questions from Balloonman

• 41. While I've commented on your RfA, I haven't really vetted you yet. Looking at your talk page, I find that you have one of the more annoying types of talk pages that can hurt your chances. For example, this interaction doesn't reflect positively on you, especially when you only read one side of the conversation. Do you know if the case was ever resolved? Was it a Sock?

• A.

• 42. You've indicated that your 23 DYK's is proof that you've now got experience writing articles. Looking at about 10 of your DYK's I've noticed that they are all stub/start class at the most. I think they are all less than your contribution to them was about 4500 bytes. Some are short on sources... have you written anything of real substance?

• A.

General comments

• See Ironholds's edit summary usage with mathbot's tool. For the edit count, see the talk page.

RfAs for this user:

• Requests for adminship/O Keyes
• Requests for adminship/O Keyes 2
• Requests for adminship/Ironholds
• Requests for adminship/Ironholds 2
• Requests for adminship/Ironholds 3
• Requests for adminship/Ironholds 4
• Requests for adminship/Ironholds 5

• Links for O keyes: O keyes (talk · contribs · deleted · count · AfD · logs · block log · lu · rfar · spi)
• Links for Ironholds: Ironholds (talk · contribs · deleted · count · AfD · logs · block log · lu · rfar · spi)

---

Please keep discussion constructive and civil. If you are unfamiliar with the nominee, please thoroughly review Special:Contributions/Ironholds before commenting.

Discussion

• Do Q12-15 really have anything to do with adminship, or are they just being asked for the sake of asking questions?--KojiDude ^(C) 22:30, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
  • Most likely the latter. :) Erik the Red 2 ~~~~ 22:42, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
    • This is going to be an interesting unintended consequence of this format. Editors will be "punished" more for declining to answer certain questions. Protonk (talk) 22:54, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
      • And thus, we've found the Achille's Heel of the format. What to do, what to do...--KojiDude ^(C) 22:55, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
        • Maybe. It's merely a different quirk. I suspect we will find many more. Maybe the social pressure against opposes based on "you didn't answer my question about banannas" will increase if the question period is longer. Maybe not. Protonk (talk) 23:10, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

As he who asked question 12, what doesn't that have to do with adminship? Anyone ready to be an admin should know better than to pull something like this. Hiberniantears (talk) 16:34, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

"Something like this" being experimenting with the RfA process? Ironholds 16:40, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Precisely. Which should not be taken to mean that I think this is a bad thing in and of itself. I just think that anyone ready to be an admin would know that you have to cross your T's and dot your I's in a contemporary RfA, and then game the heck out of the system to pass. Don't take this to mean that I intend to oppose you. Instead, understand that this will probably garner more tendentious opposition. Hiberniantears (talk) 16:49, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

<reply to H after EC> It's a good question, but I disagree with the idea that this is something a prospective admin should not have done. Interestingly, there is very little discussion of the candidate at this point. Looks like the discussion is an integral part of the voting part. Or vice versa. I think that if we make any change, it would be to have a separate question-answer part followed by discussion/voting. Question-answer/discussion followed by voting is not working, IMHO. Dlohcierekim 16:47, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

• discussion about voting early has been moved to Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_adminship/Ironholds_2#Voting_before_voting_is_supposed_to_begin naerii 01:27, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

---

Pre-voting discussion of candidate's qualities.

• Is this for discussion of the process or the candidate? Anyway, here goes. I expect to support. I like the answers to the questions, for the most part. I came up with nothing damning in my review of the last 500 contribs. Don't believe will abuse/misuse the tools. Dlohcierekim 03:48, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

• Just some data here: in his last 500 contribs he tagged 91 pages for speedy deletion, only three were declined. Icewedge (talk) 03:55, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

I saw like 500 successful taggings since August. Only one of the rejected ones did I have a real concern over. The other two were understandable given the content at the time. Also, I saw where he removed his own speedy template. That shows the sort of care I find encouraging. Also saw a talk page where he took time to explain to a new user till the new user understood. Cheers, Dlohcierekim 04:07, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Oh, I agree! My post was not a direct response to you and had no opinion attached with it. To tell the truth it was just an attempt to get some discussion going. IMHO we should use this interim time to discuss the candidate not just ask hundreds of questions. Icewedge (talk) 04:11, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

I'm with you, 100 %. Cheers, and good night. Dlohcierekim 04:15, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

• I'm very interested in seeing the response to Kww's question. Protonk (talk) 05:36, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
• I too expect to support, although the answer to Xeno's question concerns me slightly. Erik the Red 2 ~~~~ 21:21, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
  • See this discussion on talkpage. I've never thought that question was particularly clear. Tim Vickers (talk) 21:24, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Comment from WilliamH

I've met Ironholds in person. He is clearly dedicated to the project which has certainly benefited from his efforts - he seems to have another DYK every time I take a glance at his profile, for instance.

While the fact that I actually know this person should add no more weight to my opinion (I simply feel it's important to mention because I'm in a position unique to this discussion): there is an issue that concerns me. Do I think Ironholds will become an admin? Somewhere down the line, yes, I daresay there is an appropriate time. If you were to ask me now though, the answer would be that that time has not yet come. This aura of "not quite" was confirmed to me via an MSN conversation yesterday, where it transpired that Ironholds, by his own words, "didn't know" how to use the logs.

Keeping the peace with individuals while at the same time, dispassionately and undramatically pursuing the interests of the community is not an easy task, and while I hate to be such an awkward spanner in this new machine, I think it would be bit of an insult if I did not bring this forward. The bottom line of it is, is that there is simply no way I can support any request for adminship where the candidate learns how to use the public logs 2 hours after having filed his RFA. WilliamH (talk) 10:37, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

I would be interested to see Ironholds' comments on this, if he wishes to make any. Giggy (talk) 10:49, 9 October 2008 (UTC) Question for the talk page; could such a comment not be made in normal RfA? :-)

I don't really have much to say, to be honest. WilliamH informed me he'd be mentioning this here, and I even recommended he do so; I don't want to undermine this whole thing to try and boost my chances of passing. The public logs are not something I've ever really had to use; the only real thing it's useful for that things like "contributions" aren't is blocks. In article creation, blocks and so on don't come up, and blocks I apply for at AIV and so on are normally indefinite due to the nature of them (mass spamming, attack pages, so on). The lack of knowledge about public logs does not indicate "there are a plethora of things this user is ignorant about", although I'm sure there are some things about wikipedia I don't know, but if people feel this is a sign of possible unpreparedness they're welcome to ask questions relating to the use of MediaWiki functions, processes and policy, and so on to ascertain if it is a sign of more widespread ignorance (which I don't believe it is, but then if I don't know something, I don't know I don't know it). Ironholds (talk) 12:20, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

As an aside, I wasn't familiar with or used anything beyond new pages, recent changes and watchlisting before starting my own RfA. I only really learned about them or applied their use in new admin school. Question is, where does the balance lie between demonstrating your capability of performing admin duties and learning how to carry out tasks "on the job"? Gazimoff 12:34, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Yea, I don't think it matters. We shouldn't expect candidates to know how to perform all admin tasks, or even things such as utilizing the logs. Specifically speaking on logs, learning how to use them probably took, what, like 5 minutes? It's not a big deal, and I don't see it as a reason to withhold support. Jennavecia ^(Talk) 13:11, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Concur. Using the logs is a technical thing one can learn. Having clue and a fine touch is not something that can be taught. As Jenna says - it's a 5 minute process to pick it up so it's really not a deal breaker. Pedro :  Chat  13:26, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

If a candidate doesn't know about a lot of things, I'd be concerned because their learning curve might get too disruptive. Not being familiar with one fairly important thing (like the logs) isn't that big a deal in my mind. The fact of the matter is, picking these things up on the fly isn't that hard, as long as you're careful and go slow at first. Some evidence of a history of not getting in over his head would completely erase any concern I might have about unfamiliarity of some processes; evidence of galloping full speed ahead into unfamiliar territory would make it much more worrying. --barneca (talk) 13:31, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Logs what are those? Actually, I think I was an admin for several months before I realized what they were ;-) It's definitely not a deal breaker for me.---Balloonman ^PoppaBalloon 13:35, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

To be honest, I eschewed the logs. The deletion logs are important; I can get at them via the page history. The block logs I can get through via user contribs. Balloonman said it best. Dlohcierekim 14:40, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

• Additionally, logs aren't precisely the most mind-boggling of utilities to get to grips with. I'm sure Ironholds will cope fine with them. I think William made a wise move, however, in sharing his concerns regarding logs and such with the rest of this discussion's participants; concerns are best out in the open, rather than shut away, in my opinion. Anthøny ✉ 20:07, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Statement from WilliamH: followup:

Concur with Pedro. My concern lied not with the tool itself (and learning it, which indeed is quite facile), but the odd timeline of experience, which really caused my confidence to falter. If I consider these things, that Ironholds:

• a) is clearly advantageous to the project
• b) has

i) clue and will willingly

ii) ask others to use their clue stick too if he thinks it offers benefit.

• c) at no point during our beer/pub lunch, contemplated blocking Jimbo or attempted to shave the word HAGGER?? into the back of my head.

...then I retract the sentiment of my previous statement and know of no other matter which I may feel the community should be aware of, as after all, that was what my interest was ultimately vested in, and always will be. Best of luck. WilliamH (talk) 19:00, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks :). You appreciate I may at some point in the future shave a small triptych portraying the rise of four-part crop rotation in Western Europe into the back of your head? Ironholds (talk) 19:58, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

---

Comment (and only labeling it as that because I'll be reverted if I don't, which is silly on the face of it) 36 questions for an administrator candidate? This candidate thinks it's a good idea? The RfA pass rate is dropping faster than the stock market and this, this is to be the cure???? I don't need four days to draw my own conclusions. This is insanity. --Hammersoft (talk) 13:30, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Insanity? This is Wikipedia! In all seriousness, though, this is for discussing the candidate; complaints about the process should go on the talkpage. Ironholds (talk) 14:46, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm-- if you read the top, you saw this an experimental RFA? If you read the talk page discussions, you'll see that the length of time for "questions and discussion" is under discussion there. I think one of the conclusions that will come out of reviewing the process after this is complete is that 4 day is to long. At any rate, please review and join the discussion on the talk page. Cheers, Dlohcierekim 14:52, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

I'm not interested in discussing the format. The format is a joke. That's plain to see. I am discussing the candidate in that thinking this is the right direction to go, even for an experiment, is astonishing. I can't imagine anyone thinking this is a good idea. If the candidate had the best interests of the project at heart, he'd close down this abomination. --Hammersoft (talk) 16:16, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sold on the format for a number of reasons... but I think the candidate should be commended for being brave (stupid) enough to be the first person in a long time to bring a viable alternative to the RfA process. Everybody agrees that RfA is broken, I'm not convinced that this is the right fix, but I will not hold the candidate to blame for trying something different... our community is too uptight as it is, which is why nothing ever happens... let's not punish somebody for testing the waters (even if you think the idea is ill conceived.)---Balloonman ^PoppaBalloon 16:53, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

I do commend him for trying. I don't commend him for letting this process continue when it is so obviously a horrible solution. It's a train wreck. --Hammersoft (talk) 18:52, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Well, then Hammersoft. <<grin>> I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree all the way around. Cheers, Dlohcierekim 17:46, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

First up, this RfA is an experiment. Experiments usually involve some form of trial and error. If you don't try something new, you will never know if it works or not. To discount something out of hand or to wilfully resist change with nothing more than destructive criticism does no benefit to yourself, the candidate the process or the project. The fact that you're not even prepared to discuss the topic is regrettable in my opinion. Then again, from the way you rigorously archive your own talk page perhaps a willingness to discuss may have been misguided optimism on my part. Even so, the situation we find ourselves in with the RfA process (plummeting succesess and nomination rates) is a situation we as a community should try to resolve, lest we reach the situation in the future where our active admin pool starts to shrink. This scenario may in fact already be happening. Gazimoff 18:02, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

I'm not prepared to discuss it because it is obvious it failed. I don't mind experiments. But continuing the experiment so long after it evidently failed is absurd. I DID give criticism, and it wasn't destructive. This experiment resulted in 36 (and counting!) questions. That's 10 times the number of default questions. It blatantly failed. I can archive my talk page however I like, thank you very much. The way I do it has nothing to do with this discussion. --Hammersoft (talk) 18:52, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

It depends on what your fail criteria are. When we looked at proposing a new mechanism for RfA, we specifically did not list among the requirements a desire to either reduce or cap the number of questions that a candidate would face. The key aim was to ensure the candidate would be reviewed fairly and thoroughly, and not gain or duffer from early or pile-on supports or opposes. It was also a requirement to reduce the level of badgering that support or oppose statement would receive by encouraging discussion of the candidate's merits and issues before !voting commences. Neither of the requirements can be judged to have failed as yet, and cannot be scored until the RfA completes. If you feel that there should be a cap on questioning, perhaps you should detail it as a requirement when the post mortem is held in order to ensure that any further experimental RfAs can be designed with this requirement in mind. Many thanks, Gazimoff 20:07, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Support

1. Strong Support As nominator. Ironholds is an asset to Wikipedia at every possible level. No "wrong queue" jokes here -- I am completely serious in backing him and I'm in the right queue! Ecoleetage (talk) 00:37, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
2. Support Wisdom89 _{(T / ^C)} 01:30, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
3. Strong support an excellent editor. The fact that he donated his RfA to test this experimental format only makes me support him more not less, I don't see how it shows bad judgment, as RMHED has suggested. Icewedge (talk) 01:36, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
4. I'm Mailer Diablo and I approve this message! - 01:48, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
5. (EC) Strong support - I think the candidate has learned from previous RFAs and adjusted contributions accordingly. In that he avoids the cesspool of drama-mongering that is AN/I, he earns bonus points. We don't all need to be there, srsly. I'm pleased with his answers to the questions, even impressed by some. I think it's admirable that he volunteered himself to test this format, and any opposes for it should surely be discounted as pointy and shameful bs. (Anyone who feels inclined to ask me to strike that, save it, because it won't happen.) His heart is in the right place and, as always, I ask myself Can I trust this candidate not to abuse the tools or the position?, and my answer is a resounding "Yes." Jennavecia ^(Talk) 01:53, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
6. Strong Support As someone who opposed his previous RfA (and saw my comment in one of the questions, actually), I think that the candidate has learned well since his previous RfAs. Erik the Red 2 ~~~~ 02:09, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
7. Absolutely Protonk (talk) 02:17, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Oppose You thought this experimental RfA was a good idea, what terrible judgement you have. RMHED (talk) 01:30, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

   You might want to temper your comment abit. That was a little too strong. Wisdom89 _{(T / ^C)} 01:32, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

2. Well, I congratulate Ironholds for being bold to test a new RfA format, but I have some reasons to oppose this request. To begin with, I came across this oppose which, in my opinion, was incredibly biting, as were these two. This oppose, like a couple of the ones I mentioned above, was unnecessarily uncivil. I also came across a few other opposes that came across as aggressive in tone and/or lack the assumptions of good faith on behalf of the said candidates: [1][2][3] I'm also not happy with an event surrounding Ironholds' last RfA: two weeks prior to it, he tells another editor to wait to be nominated, and that is what he (Ironholds) was planning to do, yet he goes against his own advice and self-nominates: I do not consider that to be good judgment. On top of my other concerns, I have two more: I came across this, an inappropriate hidden comment on his user page, and is still on his user page as of the most recent edit (note that the most recent edit may change during the course of this RfA). Lastly, note in the first part of how I congratulate Ironholds for running in an experimental RfA? Well, I still do congratulate him, but I noticed part of his reasons for opposing two other candidates, Ali'i and Mr. IP: in Ali'i, he mentioned, "In addition, applying to prove a point makes a mockery of the process. Yes, admins are technically no more important than users, but RfA in a way shows the quality and quantity of your contributions to Wikipedia; debasing that to prove a point is almost disruptive.": the RfA for Ali'i was somewhat of an experimental one, and Ironholds partially opposed her on that basis. As for Mr. IP, I found that more worrying; Ironholds' entire rationale was: "Oppose. This RfA does nothing but disrupt the process and create DRAMAH. If you want to test the RfA policy then you can contribute to the discussions about overhauling it, not waste peoples time here. By posting this RfA as a "test" you've proven yourself an inappropriate admin candidate." That oppose was uncivil, which was bad enough, and now that Ironholds himself is running in a "test" RfA, after accusing two other people of “disruption” and/or “DRAMAH” for doing the same/similiar thing, and he has not followed his own words. Suffice to say, I am not comfortable with Ironholds' judgment for the time being. Acalamari 01:57, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
3. One thing that I've noticed about Ironholds is that he frequently makes rude, bitey, empty or unecessary opposes. I was going to dig through his contribs and provide some links, but hey, Acalamari did all that work for me. naerii 02:05, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Neutral

1. Neutral - waiting on responses to questions. - jc37 01:40, 11 October 2008 (UTC)