Talk:Orgasm and Trouvère: Difference between pages

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Difference between pages)
Content deleted Content added
VisualWikitext
 
No edit summary
 
Line 1: Line 1:
{{French literature (small)}}
{{User:MiszaBot/config
'''Trouvère''' ([[Pronunciation respelling for English|MWCD]]: /trü'ver, trü'vər/), sometimes spelled '''trouveur''', is the Northern [[French language|French]] ([[langue d'oïl]]) form of the word [[troubadour]] (as spelled in the [[langue d'oc]]). It refers to poet-composers who were roughly contemporary with and influenced by the troubadours but who composed their works in the northern [[Languages of France|dialects of France]]. The word ''trouvère'' comes from the Old French ''trovere'', from the [[Provençal]] word ''trobaire'', meaning 'to find or invent (rhetorically)'. The first known ''trouvère'' was [[Chrétien de Troyes]] (''fl''. 1160s-80s) (Butterfield, 1997) and the ''trouvères'' continued to flourish until about 1300. Some 2130 ''trouvère'' poems have survived; of these, at least two-thirds have melodies.
|maxarchivesize = 200K
|counter = 14
|algo = old(5d)
|archive = Talk:Orgasm/Archive %(counter)d
}}
{{notaforum|how many (multiple) orgasms you have had, how you can reach orgasm alone or in company, how to bring men to orgasm, how to bring women to orgasm, or how to bring jellyfish to orgasm}}
{{talkheader}}
{{WikiProjectBannerShell|1=
{{WP Sexuality|importance=top|class=B|nested=yes}}
}}
{{archive box|[[/Archive 1|Archive 1: 2001-2007]]}}


The popular image of the troubadour or trouvère is that of the itinerant musician wandering from town to town, lute on his back. Such people existed, but they were called [[juggling|jongleurs]] and [[minstrel]]s — poor musicians, male and female, on the fringes of society. The troubadours and trouvères, on the other hand, represent aristocratic music making. <!-- Misleading - the vidas and razos would suggest considerable overlap between joglars/jongleurs and troubadours/trouvères --> They were either poets and composers who were supported by the aristocracy or, just as often, were aristocrats themselves, for whom the creation and performance of music was part of the courtly tradition. Among their number we can count kings, queens, and countesses. The texts of these songs are a natural reflection of the society that created them. They often revolve around idealized treatments of [[courtly love]] ("fine amors", see ''[[grand chant]]'') and religious devotion, although many can be found that take a more frankly earthy look at love.
== prolactine, ~depressed mood, ~irritation ==


The performance of this style of music is a matter of conjecture. Some scholars suggest that it should be performed in a free rhythmic style and with limited use of accompanying instruments (especially those songs with more elevated text). Other scholars, as well as many performers, believe that instrumental accompaniment and a more rhythmic interpretation is equally valid.
In the preface you can read following: "Prolactin is a typical neuroendocrine response in depressed mood and irritation."
This is wrong sentence, prolactine indeed has some inhibitory effects on sexual drive, but it is not associated with depressed mood.
Drugs such as SSRI which cause higher prolactine release do not bring about depression! Moreover, mild depression seems to increase sexual drive. It seems like only severe depression can cause impotence, but that is not the specific effect in depreesion, it seems rather that all nervous system functions deteriorate in depression. I would also be very careful with the word "irritation" as irritation is rather psychological fenomenon, an emotional thing that occurs as a part of cognitive processes.
Article needs correction!!


[[Johannes de Grocheio]], a [[Paris]]ian musical theorist of the early [[fourteenth century]], believed that ''trouvère'' songs inspired kings and noblemen to do great things and to be great: "This kind of song is customarily composed by kings and nobles and sung in the presence of kings and princes of the land so that it may move their minds to boldness and fortitude, [[magnanimity]] and liberality..." (Page, 1997)
==euphoria==
higher brain functions (also character of potentials in cortex) fall silent during orgasm, as it can be observed in EEG, so the word: "euphoria" seems to be incorrect. The term euphoria is an old, fuzzy concept, and it is not homogenous as it have different meanings.
Article needs to strikethrough the word "euphoria", and use more detailed description instead.


==List of trouvères==
== Whether orgasm can happen during rape (title was previously "BDSM") ==
*[[Adam de Givenchi]]
*[[Adenet Le Roi]] (c.1240–c.1300)
*[[Aubertin d'Airaines]]
*[[Aubin de Sézanne]]
*[[Baudouin des Auteus]]
*[[Benoît de Sainte-Maure]]
*[[Blanche de Castille]]
*[[Blondel de Nesle]] (''[[Floruit|fl]]'' c.1175–1210)
*[[Carasaus]]
*[[Le Chastelain de Couci|Chastelain de Couci]] (''fl'' c.1170&ndash;1203; †1203)
*[[Chardon de Croisilles]]
*[[Chrétien de Troyes]] (''fl''. 1160s&ndash;80s)
*[[Colars li Boutellier]]
*[[Colin Muset]] (''fl'' c.1230&ndash;60)
*[[Conon de Béthune]] (''fl'' c.1180&ndash;c.1220; †1220)
*[[Dame Margot]]
*[[Duchesse de Lorraine]]
*[[Ernoul Caupain]]
*[[Ernoul le Vieux]]
*[[Étienne de Meaux]]
*[[Eustache le Peintre de Reims]]
*[[Gace Brulé]] (c.1159-after 1212)
*[[Gautier de Coincy]] (1177/8–1236)
*[[Gautier de Dargies]] (c.1170&ndash;after 1236)
*[[Gautier d'Espinal]] († before July 1272)
*[[Gautier de Soignies]]
*[[Gertrude, Duchess of Lorraine]] (1205-1225)
*[[Gillebert de Berneville]] (''fl'' c.1255)
*[[Gilles le Vinier]]
*[[Gobin de Reims]]
*[[Gontier de Soignies]] (''fl'' c.1180&ndash;1220)
*[[Guibert Kaukesel]]
*[[Guillaume d'Amiens]]
*[[Guillaume Veau]]
*[[Guiot de Dijon]] (''fl'' c.1200–30)
*[[Guiot de Provins]]
*[[Henry III, Duke of Brabant|Henry le Débonnaire]]
*[[Henry de Lacy, 3rd Earl of Lincoln|Henri de Lacy]] (1249&ndash;1311)
*[[Hue de la Ferté]]
*[[Hugues de Berzé]] (''fl'' c.1150&ndash;1220)
*[[Jacques Bretel]]
*[[Jacques de Cambrai]]
*[[Jacques de Cysoing]]
*[[Jaque de Dampierre]]
*[[Jean Bodel]]
*[[Jean Renaut]]
*[[John I, Duke of Brittany|Jean le Roux]]
*[[Jehan de Braine]]
*[[Jehan Fremaux]]
*[[Jehan de Grieviler]]
*[[Jehan de Nuevile]]
*[[Jehan de Trie]]
*[[Jocelin de Dijon]]
*[[Lambert Ferri]]
*[[Lorris Acot]]
*[[Mahieu le Juif]]
*[[Maroie de Dregnau de Lille]]
*[[Moniot de Paris]] (''fl'' c.1250&ndash;1278)
*[[Oede de la Couroierie]]
*[[Perrin d'Angicourt]] (''fl'' c.1245&ndash;50)
*[[Perrot de Neele]]
*[[Philippe de Rémi (died 1265)|Philippe de Remy]] (c.1205&ndash;c.1265)
*[[Pierre de Corbie]]
*[[Pierre de Molins]]
*[[Pierrekin de la Coupele]]
*[[Raoul de Beauvais]]
*[[Raoul de Ferier]]
*[[Raoul de Soissons]] (c.1215&ndash;1272)
*[[Richard de Fournival]] (1201&ndash;c.1260)
*[[Richart de Semilli]]
*[[Robert de Blois]]
*[[Robert de Reims]]
*[[Simon d'Authie]]
*[[Sauvage d'Arraz]]
*[[Thibaut de Blazon]]
*[[Theobald I of Navarre|Thibaut le Chansonnier]] (1201&ndash;53)
*[[Thierri de Soissons]]
*[[Thomas de Herier]]
*[[Vidame de Chartres]]
*[[Vielart de Corbie]]
*[[Walter of Bibbesworth]]


===Trouvères from Arras===
<blockquote>
*[[Adam de la Halle]] (c.1240–88)
"Involuntary orgasms"
*[[Andrieu Contredit d'Arras]] († c.1248)
A direct stimulation that triggers orgasms does not necessarily have to be consensual. Thus victims of non consensual acts such as [[rape]] or [[frotteurism]] can experience orgasms despite their will. This could lead to accusations against the victim or trigger self accusations. Involuntary orgasms can happen regardless of the gender of either party. <ref>{{cite journal| url=http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S1353113103001536| title=Sexual arousal and orgasm in subjects who experience forced or non-consensual sexual stimulation – a review| author=Roy J. Levin| coauthors=Willy van Berlo| journal=Journal of Clinical Forensic Medicine| volume=11| issue=2| pages=82–88| publisher=elsevier.com| date=2004-04 | accessdate=2008-06-08| doi=10.1016/j.jcfm.2003.10.008}}</ref>
*[[Audefroi le Bastart]] (''fl'' c1200&ndash;1230)
*[[Gaidifer d'Avion]]
*[[Guillaume le Vinier]] (''fl'' c1220&ndash;45; †1245)
*[[Jacques le Vinier]]
*[[Jehan Bretel]] (c1200&ndash;1272)
*[[Jehan le Cuvelier d'Arras]] (''fl'' c1240&ndash;70)
*[[Jehan Erart]] († c1259)
*[[Mahieu de Gant]]
*[[Moniot d'Arras]] (''fl'' c1250–75)
*[[Robert de Castel]]
*[[Robert de la Piere]]


==Reference works==
The [[BDSM]] play of [[forced orgasm]] is based on involuntary orgasms.
<div class="references-small">
</blockquote>
*Akehurst, F. R. P. and Judith M. Davis, eds. ''A Handbook of the Troubadours.'' Berkeley: University of California Press, 1995. <small>ISBN 0 52 007976 0.</small>
*Butterfield, Ardis. "Monophonic song: questions of category", ''Companion to Medieval & Renaissance Music''. Oxford University Press, 1997. <small>ISBN 0 19 816540 4.</small>
*O'Neill, Mary (2006). ''Courtly Love Songs of Medieval France: Transmission and Style in the Trouvère Repertoire''. Oxford: Oxford University Press. <small>ISBN 0 19 816547 1.</small>
*Page, Christopher. "Listening to the trouvères". ''Early Music''. Vol. 25, No. 4, November 1997.
*Goldin, Frederick, translator. ''Lyrics of the Troubadours and Trouvères: An Anthology and a History.'' Gloucester, MA: Peter Smith, 1983. <small>ISBN 0 84 465036 6.</small>
*Hasenohr, Geneviève and Michel Zink, eds. ''Dictionnaire des lettres françaises: Le Moyen Age.'' Collection: La Pochothèque. Paris: Fayard, 1992. <small>ISBN 2 25 305662 6.</small>
</div>


[[Category:Medieval literature]]
This is ABSOLUTELY FALSE! [[BDSM]] is ''not'' "non-consensual" sex or forced sex. BDSM is ''completely'' consensual, and works on the premise of [[role play]], where both the [[dom]] and the [[sub]] have agreed to play their respective parts. The [[sub]] is completely in control of their orgasm even while he or she is submitting to their "other". The psychological experience of being a sub means that he or she is being [[aroused]] or pleasured through their "submission". As for actual non-consensual sex (which is called '''''[[rape|RAPE]]''''' and NOT '''''BDSM'''''), there is no evidence of whether the victim experiences any kind of orgasm!
[[Category:Medieval music]]
[[Category:Medieval French literature]]
[[Category:Trouvères|*]]


[[es:Trovero]]
This needs to be corrected ASAP: it functions on a false myth and can be seriously, and dangerously misleading. If I don't see a response / suggestion to this soon, I will be changing it myself. --[[User:Supriyya|Supriya]] ([[User talk:Supriyya|talk]]) 13:43, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
[[fr:Trouvère]]

[[nl:Trouvère]]
I agree with Supriya. I'm offended by this. Rape is painful and never pleasant. <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/65.96.180.73|65.96.180.73]] ([[User talk:65.96.180.73|talk]]) 22:46, 21 June 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
[[ja:トルヴェール]]

[[no:Trouvère]]
Can this section be removed? I mean, what is an involuntary orgasm and the existence of that might in itself be questionable. As far as I understand, an orgasm is always voluntary. You can be wet, horny, etc in your sleep - but the orgasm has to be brought on! Even the parts about bodily flushes being "orgasmic" sounds rather dicy to me. --[[User:Supriyya|Supriya]] ([[User talk:Supriyya|talk]]) 08:39, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
[[pl:Truwerzy]]

[[ru:Труверы]]
:Remove the BDSM section if you like because it's unsourced, but the section about orgasms during rape has an actual source in an actual scholarly journal. If you disagree with that journal's findings, you must explain why here, and not just from your own opinions or original research. [[User:The Wednesday Island|The Wednesday Island]] ([[User talk:The Wednesday Island|talk]]) 12:16, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
[[fi:Truveeri]]

Alright, ''Wednesday Island''. I've removed the BDSM reference only. I'll have a look at the citation for the orgasms during rape and get back to the talk page. --'''''[[User_talk:Supriyya|<font style="color:Black;">Supriya</font>]]''''' 14:19, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Hey, it's not fair that the article that you cite is a paid, inaccessible one. How are people supposed to read it and verify it? Furthermore, if it is the ''[[opinion]]'' of this science journal that victims may experience orgasm during rape, it should be stated ''in'' the article that it is a ''claim'' by so and so. The sentence reads like it were an agreed-upon fact, and that the citation is an example of someone who said so. Either we remove the whole sentence, or we claim it as an opinion of the source in the article itself (and not just in the citation). Just because it is a 'scholarly' journal saying so, it can't be accepted as a ''[[fact]]''. As far as my personal logic goes, I can not fathom how someone who is unwilling to have sex (is being violated) simultaneously experiences [[pleasure]] (gets an orgasm). What kind of an ''article'' is this and what kind of ''research''? It sounds like some shady writing that is trying to justify the act of [[rape]] and say that, hey, if you rape someone it's fine, after all you might be giving them an orgasm against their will! This is absolute BULLSHIT. Can we have some more opinions on this, ''please''? --'''''[[User_talk:Supriyya|<font style="color:Black;">Supriya</font>]]''''' 15:02, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

:Okay. Taking these from the top: 1)I dislike journals being pay-only as much as anyone, but it's within Wikipedia guidelines to use them. 2)I haven't cited anything. The claim in the article was already backed up by a citation. I merely warned you not to delete cited text without good reason because it is against policy to do so. 3) The cited article is a literature review paper in a respected peer-reviewed medical journal. ''It is not an opinion piece.'' Please review [[WP:RS]] under the "Scholarship" and "Opinion" headings. If you believe it's not an agreed-upon fact that this phenomenon exists, '''please demonstrate that the paper was somehow invalid or that its scholarship has been called into question by another serious paper'''. Your "personal logic" does not count as a counterexample; it is at best original research. 4) I find your claim that people who refuse to deny this phenomenon are rape apologists to be a personal attack, and unworthy of inclusion on a talk page. Indeed, '''it is those who deny this involuntary phenomenon exists who increase the guilt and shame of those who experience it''' by insinuating that they must really have wanted the sex or they wouldn't have experienced the orgasm. 5) In case you want some non-scholarly links about the phenomenon: [http://yourtotalhealth.ivillage.com/surviving-rape-overcoming-guilt.html] [http://www.way2hope.org/rape_victims_help.htm] [http://www.sextx.com/rape.html] [http://faithallen.wordpress.com/2008/05/08/orgasm-during-rape-or-other-form-of-sexual-abuse/]. [[User:The Wednesday Island|The Wednesday Island]] ([[User talk:The Wednesday Island|talk]]) 16:37, 23 June 2008 (UTC)


::I agree that we all might have different ideas about the ethics of the "rape discourse", but I still disagree with the idea that the orgasm can be "involuntary". If the victim for whatever reason decides to submit or give in, or escape into experiencing their own pleasure, because he or she is unable to get away, then that means that the victim has '''participated''' in having the '''orgasm''' (and not in the '''crime''' of rape). What I am saying, is not a comment on the ''crime'' that has occurred (it still remains heinious and offensive, and there should be no shame in reporting it, whether the victim has decided to give in at some stage or not), but this is a comment I am making on the nature of the '''orgasm'''. And if a victim decides to '''willingly''' have an orgasm during rape, it doesn't at all mean that he or she should not be able to complain about the crime. To state that the orgasm was 'involuntary' sounds like an easy way out in proving the guilty wrong, and I can understand why people might do so. But the more long-term solution would be to condemn rape, whether the victim's orgasm was voluntary or not. One of the fundamental ways of identifying rape is in convincing the victim to say "no". If the victim has said no, it is rape, irregardless of whether or not they have had an orgasm, and whether or not they have had an orgasm is nobody's business.
--'''''[[User_talk:Supriyya|<font style="color:Black;">Supriya</font>]]''''' 18:36, 23 June 2008 (UTC)


Also, I'm sorry if that sounded like a personal attack. It was not. I just feel that it should be made clear that this is a claim made by someone, in the very article itself.
--'''''[[User_talk:Supriyya|<font style="color:Black;">Supriya</font>]]''''' 18:50, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

:I've read through the source, and it supports what is stated in the article. This is the conclusion:

:<blockquote>The review has examined whether unsolicited or non-consensual sexual stimulation of either males or females can create unwanted sexual arousal even to the induction of an orgasm. Despite a limited published literature, case and anecdotal reports the conclusion from them is that such scenarios can occur and that the induction of arousal and even orgasm does not permit the conclusion that the subjects consented to the stimulation. A perpertrator’s defence against the alleged assault built solely on the evidence that genital arousal or orgasm in the victim proves consent has no intrinsic validity and should be disregarded.</blockquote>-[[User:Wafulz|Wafulz]] ([[User talk:Wafulz|talk]]) 01:45, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Cool. I still think that it should be mentioned in the section "Involuntary Orgasm", that it is a ''claim'' made, rather than just have a citation marked.
--'''''[[User_talk:Supriyya|<font style="color:Black;">Supriya</font>]]''''' 09:22, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

:[[Wikipedia:Words to avoid#Claim]].-[[User:Wafulz|Wafulz]] ([[User talk:Wafulz|talk]]) 12:51, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

::Well okay - a synonym for "claim" then? How about "according to"? Or something like that? --'''''[[User_talk:Supriyya|<font style="color:Black;">Supriya</font>]]''''' 17:12, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
:::Added journal article with [[pubmed]] ID number, allowing access to the abstract. Print sources and unlinked/no content references are legitimate but do present difficulties if contested. However, though unsourced, the removed BDSM info does appear legit - the sub is trying to inhibit their orgasm, the dom is trying to induce it. It's an involutnary orgasm, it's what the forced orgasm is based on. There's two different topics in the section, both being about involuntary orgasm. During rape, orgasm happens through straight physical stimulation even though the sex is involuntary. During forced orgasm the same thing happens, but the sex is voluntary. I've added but separated the two; forced orgasm could use some citations (here and in the main) but I'll [[WP:AGF|assume]] it's legit. [[User:WLU|WLU]] ([[User talk:WLU|talk]]) 17:31, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

It has long been known and cited by scholars, including 'feminist' scholars, that some women experience orgasm during rape. While orgasm is a response to stimulation, it involves involuntary actions such as muscle contractions. It may seem "logical" to argue that, since orgasm is pleasurable and therefore desired it cannot occur absent desire, but human physiological response does not always follow logical patterns. One can still respond to the aromas of certain foods, for example (such as mouth watering) even if you do not desire to eat them at the time that you smell them. [[User:DesmondRavenstone|Desmond Ravenstone]] ([[User talk:DesmondRavenstone|talk]]) 21:55, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

:Exactly, Desmond. I came here at this very moment to argue that people can have orgasms that they do not desire, considering I saw this discussion some days ago for the first time...but am just now getting around to responding to it. It's not just feminist scholars, of course, who say that involuntary orgasms happen. Doctors do as well. And, I mean, after all "boring sex" exists...where a person may just be going through the motions of sexual intercourse but is not truly "turned on", does not desire it, and before that person knows it, their body is having convulsions -- a sexual orgasm. One would think that an orgasm makes it great sex, right? Nope, not always the case. Just as an orgasm during rape does not mean that that rape was pleasurable. [[User:Flyer22|Flyer22]] ([[User talk:Flyer22|talk]]) 17:30, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

:This seems to be to be a ridiculous question. Rape is about intercourse without consent. Other factors are not relevant. Whether is was pleasurable at any point by either party, whetehr it was forced or not, the motivation behind the rape are all completely unimportant in the context of whether it was rape or not. In the context of BDSM, BDSM always involves consent. Also, most types of BDSM do not involve inercourse in practice (but could.) [[User:Atomaton|Atom]] ([[User talk:Atomaton|talk]]) 18:06, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
::What question are you referring to? We know the difference between rape and BDSM, but this discussion moved into the debate over whether a person can have an involuntary orgasm during rape or not. The article addresses the fact that it does happen, which has a reliable source attributed to it, but an editor above was basically stating that he or she does not believe the findings to be true. Of course rape is rape, but this article addresses orgasms in rape, and this debate, which really is not a contribution to helping this article, was about that. [[User:Flyer22|Flyer22]] ([[User talk:Flyer22|talk]]) 20:03, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
You can have an orgasm being raped. First of all most of you seem to be only thinking it from the woman's perspective. If a man is raped anally, he can have an orgasm because of the constant contact with the prostate. If a man is raped as in a woman or man masturbates him or mounts him, whether he likes it or not he can have an orgasm. A woman too. The whole premise on the effects of child abuse isn't only when a child doesn't like it. But that most times, whether the child wants it or not they can have orgasms, and think that it's somehow their fault because of it. I know because I was sexually abused when I was a child, and most of my teens years I kept justifying the offender's action because I would have orgasms. Only now in my life do I realize that that's one of the ways that rapists try to control you. By placing part of the blame on you. It's also a way that a rapist justifies his actions to himself, telling a girl it wasn't rape because she climaxed. As to the BDSM topic. Yes you can have an involuntary orgasm, it's like a game, the sub trying to stop it or keep from climaxing, and the top trying to force it. But I think the word rape and BDSM should be paragraphs apart. Maybe a paragraph on how it is on rape, and then how it is in BDSM, with a paranthesis like "(though this is consensual)" or something. Having them so close can confuse people [[Special:Contributions/24.91.140.27|24.91.140.27]] ([[User talk:24.91.140.27|talk]]) 18:11, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

== pressure on perineum considered harmful? ==

I couldn't find a source for this, and anecdotally it's caused me no problems (I'm 23 and I first discovered this means of preventing ejaculation on my own when I was 11 or 12, so in my case at least 11 or 12 years of daily use has not been harmful). The only source I've found that mentions any danger from this is http://lounge.moviecodec.com/topics/36734p2.html , but that page is dated after the info was added here and is likely a copy & paste from the wikipedia article. (There are plenty of medical pages that mention retrograde ejaculation as a side effect of medication or surgery in that area, but that's not really relevant here.)

Here is a discussion about this in which one person (possibly a med student or doctor) theorizes about possible harmful effects:
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/001282.htm . Most others on that page provide anecdotal reports that the practice is harmless. Also, here is a page that specifically refutes one of the concerns listed by the med student / doctor: http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/001282.htm ("The presence of semen in the bladder is harmless").

I find it unlikely that the amount of pressure required to stop ejaculation is enough to cause any nerve or blood vessel damage -- it's no more than, say, a firm handshake, and is less pressure than one sometimes gets from sitting on oddly shaped surfaces (like old bicycle seats).

[[User:Niteling|Niteling]] ([[User talk:Niteling|talk]]) 03:05, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

== What happened to orgasm in transexuals ==

It seems like that section was present long time ago, but now for some reason was removed. Could anybody tell why? <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Ilya-42|Ilya-42]] ([[User talk:Ilya-42|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Ilya-42|contribs]]) 16:32, 16 July 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== retrograde ejaculation ==

I was wondering if somone can help me. I have a issue with my sperm being redirected into my bladder. i guess from what i am told is that the valve that is supose to open when you ejaculate does not open. I was told that there was something mentioned on the news about a month ago about redirecting sperm. does anyone have any info for me. We are trying to have a baby and it is getting very troubling. Can anyone help me. Are there any procedures that can correct this

Thanks <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Animal575|Animal575]] ([[User talk:Animal575|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Animal575|contribs]]) 02:27, 15 August 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:Have you read [[Retrograde ejaculation]]? No one on Wikipedia is allowed to provide you with any medical advice, since there is no way to prove he is medically qualified, since he is unable to examine you or take a complete medical history or have tests done, and because of liability issues. If you have medical concerns, you should see a doctor. [[User:Edison|Edison]] ([[User talk:Edison|talk]]) 02:37, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

== Heart Orgasm ==

The human body is capable of orgasm in parts other than the pelvic area. A heart orgasm is characterised by involuntary or loss of control of breathing, and extremely pleasurable sensations in the heart area. <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Aidan oz|Aidan oz]] ([[User talk:Aidan oz|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Aidan oz|contribs]]) 02:41, 23 August 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->


:Is this [[WP:OR|original research]]? [[User:The Wednesday Island|The Wednesday Island]] ([[User talk:The Wednesday Island|talk]]) 00:58, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
::A heart orgasm? Laughing out loud. I highly doubt that this can be called an orgasm in the sexual sense, even if this "heart orgasm" happens while sexually aroused, which is what I would think it means. I mean, yes, everyone who is sexually excited has or comes close to having a "heart orgasm"... I would not say that it is "extremely pleasurable sensations in the heart area"...LOL. [[User:Flyer22|Flyer22]] ([[User talk:Flyer22|talk]]) 18:54, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
:::I mean, yes, we can have a section about heart rates during orgasm, though information about this is probably better suited in the Orgasm and health section, but calling it a heart orgasm is very premature. After all, there is dispute about whether certain "orgasms" should be called orgasms (as this article also has a section about). I am certain the dispute about "heart orgasm" would be greater. We could definitely say that due to the heart rate level and emotions that cause the heart to do whatever thing it does during orgasm it is sometimes called a heart orgasm (with a valid reference attributed to that), but we should not have a section called Heart orgasm. And, as hinted at, I'm not even sure that we should have a section called Heart stimulation, which sounds like some matter of trying to massage the heart or typical exercise when "heart orgasm" is really a matter of emotions of deep sexual attraction or love that the brain feels...or sexual arousal/pleasure of the genitals, which causes the heart rate to speed up. [[User:Flyer22|Flyer22]] ([[User talk:Flyer22|talk]]) 19:28, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

:::: What's with 'Brain Orgasm'?? Should not been underrated ... definitively existing. Or well known as 'Happy Mind Spastic'. I've got that since a few months daily by just reading and don't want be cured of it. Perfect Alternative to sex on classic beds. And the advantage: You can have it everywhere but not with everybody. To the my fore-poster ... why you resume 'orgasm' just to genitals? The completely body (and mind) is an erogenous zone.
:::::I "resume" orgasm just to genitals because that is how it is medically defined, and how this article defines it. However, I am all for people saying, "I had a heart orgasm"...I had a breast orgasm"..."I a brain orgasm"...etc...in expressing their emotions; it's simply not the same as what happens in orgasm of the genitals, however, and if we are going to include stuff like "heart orgasm" or "brain orgasm" in this article, then it needs to come from reliable sources as actually being considered orgasms in a valid way and presented in this article as such, explaining how certain feelings have an effect on other parts of our bodies in such a way that they could be called orgasms. [[User:Flyer22|Flyer22]] ([[User talk:Flyer22|talk]]) 21:30, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Revision as of 01:33, 13 October 2008

French and Francophone literature
by category
History
Movements
Writers
Countries and regions
Portals

Trouvère (MWCD: /trü'ver, trü'vər/), sometimes spelled trouveur, is the Northern French (langue d'oïl) form of the word troubadour (as spelled in the langue d'oc). It refers to poet-composers who were roughly contemporary with and influenced by the troubadours but who composed their works in the northern dialects of France. The word trouvère comes from the Old French trovere, from the Provençal word trobaire, meaning 'to find or invent (rhetorically)'. The first known trouvère was Chrétien de Troyes (fl. 1160s-80s) (Butterfield, 1997) and the trouvères continued to flourish until about 1300. Some 2130 trouvère poems have survived; of these, at least two-thirds have melodies.

The popular image of the troubadour or trouvère is that of the itinerant musician wandering from town to town, lute on his back. Such people existed, but they were called jongleurs and minstrels — poor musicians, male and female, on the fringes of society. The troubadours and trouvères, on the other hand, represent aristocratic music making. They were either poets and composers who were supported by the aristocracy or, just as often, were aristocrats themselves, for whom the creation and performance of music was part of the courtly tradition. Among their number we can count kings, queens, and countesses. The texts of these songs are a natural reflection of the society that created them. They often revolve around idealized treatments of courtly love ("fine amors", see grand chant) and religious devotion, although many can be found that take a more frankly earthy look at love.

The performance of this style of music is a matter of conjecture. Some scholars suggest that it should be performed in a free rhythmic style and with limited use of accompanying instruments (especially those songs with more elevated text). Other scholars, as well as many performers, believe that instrumental accompaniment and a more rhythmic interpretation is equally valid.

Johannes de Grocheio, a Parisian musical theorist of the early fourteenth century, believed that trouvère songs inspired kings and noblemen to do great things and to be great: "This kind of song is customarily composed by kings and nobles and sung in the presence of kings and princes of the land so that it may move their minds to boldness and fortitude, magnanimity and liberality..." (Page, 1997)

List of trouvères

Trouvères from Arras

Reference works

  • Akehurst, F. R. P. and Judith M. Davis, eds. A Handbook of the Troubadours. Berkeley: University of California Press, 1995. ISBN 0 52 007976 0.
  • Butterfield, Ardis. "Monophonic song: questions of category", Companion to Medieval & Renaissance Music. Oxford University Press, 1997. ISBN 0 19 816540 4.
  • O'Neill, Mary (2006). Courtly Love Songs of Medieval France: Transmission and Style in the Trouvère Repertoire. Oxford: Oxford University Press. ISBN 0 19 816547 1.
  • Page, Christopher. "Listening to the trouvères". Early Music. Vol. 25, No. 4, November 1997.
  • Goldin, Frederick, translator. Lyrics of the Troubadours and Trouvères: An Anthology and a History. Gloucester, MA: Peter Smith, 1983. ISBN 0 84 465036 6.
  • Hasenohr, Geneviève and Michel Zink, eds. Dictionnaire des lettres françaises: Le Moyen Age. Collection: La Pochothèque. Paris: Fayard, 1992. ISBN 2 25 305662 6.
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Orgasm&oldid=244893856"