Jump to content

User talk:Doncram and Paleozoic: Difference between pages

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Difference between pages)
Content deleted Content added
 
No edit summary
 
Line 1: Line 1:
{{Geological era}}
{{Archive box|
The '''Paleozoic''' or '''Palaeozoic''' Era (from the Greek ''CODYS GAY is the earliest of three [[geology|geologic]] [[Era (geology)|eras]] of the [[Phanerozoic]] [[Eon (geology)|eon]]. The Paleozoic spanned from roughly {{Ma|542|251}} (ICS, 2004), and is subdivided into six [[period (geology)|geologic periods]]; from oldest to youngest they are: the [[Cambrian]], [[Ordovician]], [[Silurian]], [[Devonian period|Devonian]], [[Carboniferous]], and [[Permian]].
: [[/Archive 1|Archive 1]]
: [[/Archive 2|Archive 2]]
: [[/Archive 3|Archive 3]]
: [[/Archive 4|Archive 4]]
: [[/Archive 5|Archive 5]]
}}


==Paleozoic life==
[[Image:Asaphiscuswheelerii.jpg|thumb|right|150px|[[Trilobites]] flourished throughout the lower Paleozoic era until becoming extinct in the [[Permian]] period]]
The Paleozoic covers the time from the first appearance of abundant, soft-shelled [[fossil]]s to the time when the [[continent]]s were beginning to be dominated by large, relatively sophisticated reptiles and relatively modern [[plant]]s. The lower (oldest) boundary was classically set at the first appearance of creatures known as [[trilobite]]s and [[archeocyathid]]s. The upper (youngest) boundary is set at a major [[extinction event]] 300 million years later, known as the [[Permian extinction]]. Modern practice sets the older boundary at the first appearance of a distinctive [[trace fossil]] called ''[[Trichophycus pedum]]''.


At the start of the era, all life was confined to [[bacterium|bacteria]], [[algae]], [[sea sponge|sponge]]s and a variety of somewhat enigmatic forms known collectively as the [[Ediacaran biota|Ediacaran fauna]]. A large number of body plans appeared nearly simultaneously at the start of the era -- a phenomenon known as the [[Cambrian Explosion]]. There is some evidence that simple life may already have invaded the land at the start of the Paleozoic, but substantial plants and animals did not take to the land until the Silurian and did not thrive until the Devonian. Although primitive [[vertebrate]]s are known near the start of the Paleozoic, animal forms were dominated by [[invertebrate]]s until the mid-Paleozoic. [[Fish]] populations exploded in the Devonian. During the late Paleozoic, great [[forest]]s of primitive plants thrived on land forming the great [[coal]] beds of [[Europe]] and eastern North America. By the end of the era, the first large, sophisticated reptiles and the first modern plants ([[conifer]]s) had developed.
== [[List of Registered Historic Places in California#Nevada County]] ==


==Tectonics==
{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"
[[Image:290 global.gif|250px|right|thumb]]
|rowspan="2" valign="middle" | [[Image:Vitruvian Barnstar.png|75px]]
Geologically, the Paleozoic starts shortly after the breakup of a [[supercontinent]] called <!--Pannotia is correct; please do not change to Pangaea--> [[Pannotia]] and at the end of a global [[ice age]]. (See [[Cryogenian|Varanger glaciation]] and [[Snowball Earth]]). Throughout the early Paleozoic, the Earth's landmass was broken up into a substantial number of relatively small continents. Toward the end of the era, the continents gathered together into a [[supercontinent]] called [[Pangaea]], which included most of the Earth's land area.
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The da Vinci Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | Doncram, I award you this barnstar for the outstanding table you created at [[List of Registered Historic Places in California#Nevada County]]. And, yes, if you made similar tables for other counties, it would be outstanding. [[User:Rosiestep|Rosiestep]] ([[User talk:Rosiestep|talk]]) 21:02, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
|}


==Climate==
Regarding the other changes you mentioned, that's fine, and I'll follow the style. --[[User:Rosiestep|Rosiestep]] ([[User talk:Rosiestep|talk]]) 21:02, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
{{Unreferencedsection|date=July 2007}}
{{Cleanup|date=July 2007}}


The Early Cambrian climate was probably moderate at first, becoming warmer over the course of the Cambrian, as the second-greatest sustained [[sea level rise]] in the Phanerozoic got underway. However, as if to offset this trend, [[Gondwana]] moved south with considerable speed, so that, in Ordovician time, Most of West Gondwana (Africa and South America) lay directly over the [[South Pole]]. The Early Paleozoic climate was also strongly zonal, with the result that the "climate", in an abstract sense became warmer, but the living space of most organisms of the time -- the continental shelf marine environment -- became steadily colder. However, [[Baltica]] (Northern Europe and Russia) and [[Laurentia]] (eastern North America and Greenland) remained in the tropical zone, while China and Australia lay in waters which were at least temperate. The Early Paleozoic ended, rather abruptly, with the short, but apparently severe, Late Ordovician Ice Age. This cold spell caused the second-greatest mass extinction of Phanerozoic time. Over time, the warmer weather moved into the Paleozoic era.
== [[Template:ConvertState]] ==


The Middle Paleozoic was a time of considerable stability. Sea levels had dropped coincident with the Ice Age, but slowly recovered over the course of the Silurian and Devonian. The slow merger of Baltica and Laurentia, and the northward movement of bits and pieces of Gondwana created numerous new regions of relatively warm, shallow sea floor. As plants took hold on the continental margins, [[oxygen]] levels increased and [[carbon dioxide]] dropped, although much less dramatically. The north-south temperature gradient also seems to have moderated, or metazoan life simply became hardier, or both. At any event, the far southern continental margins of Antarctica and West Gondwana became increasingly less barren. The Devonian ended with a series of turnover pulses which killed off much of Middle Paleozoic vertebrate life, without noticeably reducing species diversity overall.
I just made a new template, and I felt like bragging haha.. An editor can input a full name of a state (such as Mississippi or New York) into {{tl|ConvertState}}, and it will return the postal abbreviation (such as MS or NY). Also, an editor can input the abbreviation (MS or NY), and {{tl|ConvertState}} will return the full name (Mississippi or New York). I think this template will have a major impact on many templates throughout Wikipedia.. it will make Wikipedia more like an actual human brain - able to "think" and decipher the name of a state regardless of the format in which it is given. The template is already implemented in {{tl|Infobox nrhp2}} for the ''region'' parameter in the {{tl|coord}} template, and I think pretty much any geography-based template could utilize it. I'd like to spread the word, but I have no clue how haha.. any ideas? --[[User:Dudemanfellabra|Dudemanfellabra]] ([[User talk:Dudemanfellabra|talk]]) 03:47, 9 August 2008 (UTC)


The Late Paleozoic was a time which has left us a good many unanswered questions. The [[Mississippian|Mississippian epoch]] began with a spike in atmospheric oxygen, while carbon dioxide plummeted to unheard-of lows. This destabilized the climate and led to one, and perhaps two, ice ages during the [[Carboniferous]]. These were far more severe than the brief Late Ordovician Ice; but, this time, the effects on world biota were inconsequential. By the Cisuralian, both oxygen and carbon dioxide had recovered to more normal levels. On the other hand, the assembly of Pangea created huge arid inland areas subject to temperature extremes. The [[Lopingian]] is associated with falling sea levels, increased carbon dioxide and general climatic deterioration, culminating in the devastation of the [[Permian extinction]].
:I expanded it to include the "other" US and Canadian (ISO 3166/postal) codes, and suggested a way it could be expanded into ConvertAbbrev/, see: [[Template talk:ConvertState/doc]]. When the "dust settles" Dudemanfellabra definitely deserves a barnstar, but not sure which one? [[User:LeheckaG|LeheckaG]] ([[User talk:LeheckaG|talk]]) 10:40, 9 August 2008 (UTC)


==See also==
== Pittsburgh-area NRHP property ==
* [[Geologic timescale]]


==References and further reading==
Thanks for advice and work on the Pittsburgh and Allegheny County NRHP lists. One problem: as someone who was there and got a (sadly) not-the-best picture, I can tell you that the Singer House (#126 in the Pittsburgh list) is located in Wilkinsburg, a borough separate from Pittsburgh. I hope to be able to start uploading pictures quite soon, both for the Allegheny County list and for the Pittsburgh list. [[User:Nyttend|Nyttend]] ([[User talk:Nyttend|talk]]) 21:34, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
* ''British Palaeozoic Fossils'', 1975, The Natural History Museum, London.
:Yeah, I cycled up to the house and got pictures from the sidewalk: it's not that the pictures are bad, but that you can't see a ton of the house from the picture — there's a hillside blocking the way, and sadly there was a NO TRESPASSING sign at the entrance to the driveway. A local pastor told me that he and his wife have been able to go up to the house, so conceivably someone could get a better picture to replace mine eventually? Ah well; I should have the Singer picture, as well as the rest, uploaded rather soon. One other question: one of my favorite NRHP sites that I saw was [[Rodef Shalom Temple|Temple Rodef Shalom]], of which I got several pictures, including its celebrated façade. There's one picture on the article already, somewhat of a three-quarters view. I'm planning to upload the façade picture; would it be appropriate to add this picture to the article, leaving the current picture in its current place? Or is it standard to have just one picture per article? [[User:Nyttend|Nyttend]] ([[User talk:Nyttend|talk]]) 01:15, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
* {{cite web | title=International Commission on Stratigraphy (ICS)| work=Home Page| url=http://www.stratigraphy.org/ | accessmonthday=September 19 | accessyear=2005}}
::Thanks again for your help and advice: the new picture is uploaded and placed. Do you think it's better for the infobox, or should the other picture be put back and the new one have a subsidiary place? [[User:Nyttend|Nyttend]] ([[User talk:Nyttend|talk]]) 02:30, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
{{Commonscat|Paleozoic}}
{{Paleozoic Footer}}
{{Phanerozoic Footer}}
[[Category:Geological history of Earth]]
[[Category:Paleozoic| ]]


[[ar:حقبة الباليوزوي]]
===Another request===
[[bs:Paleozoik]]
The only NRHP property that I've actually written an article about is [[Reformed Presbyterian Church of Vernon]], in southern Wisconsin, but I've had trouble with it. When I put in the address, Google Maps won't display anything (not even take me to the road, which is on there), and if I remember right, Mapquest doesn't do much more. Is there anywhere I can go to ask specifically southern Wisconsin NRHP people, or anyone you know who would fit such a description? [[User:Nyttend|Nyttend]] ([[User talk:Nyttend|talk]]) 12:13, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
[[br:Paleozoeg]]

[[bg:Палеозой]]
== [[Torrey Pines Gliderport]] ==
[[ca:Paleozoic]]

[[cs:Paleozoikum]]

[[da:Palæozoikum]]
Let's just say I had to do a little bit of extra work to get this photo [[User:Dmadeo|dm]] ([[User talk:Dmadeo|talk]]) 15:25, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
[[de:Paläozoikum]]

[[et:Paleosoikum]]
== WP:CHICAGO ==
[[el:Παλαιοζωική εποχή]]

[[es:Era Paleozoica]]
Thanks for registering at [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Chicago/members]]. You may want to get involved in the [[Wikipedia:Meetup/Chicago 3]]. Also, be advised that the project is now trying to keep all the project's [[WP:PR]], [[WP:FAC]], [[WP:FAR]], [[WP:GAR]], [[WP:GAC]] [[WP:FLC]], [[WP:FLRC]], [[WP:FTC]], [[WP:FPOC]], [[WP:FPC]], and [[WP:AFD]] discussion pages in one location at the new [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Chicago/Review]] page. Please help add any discussion you are aware of at this location.--[[User:TonyTheTiger|TonyTheTiger]] <small>([[User talk:TonyTheTiger|t]]/[[Special:Contributions/TonyTheTiger|c]]/[[User:TonyTheTiger/Antonio Vernon|bio]]/[[WP:CHICAGO]]/[[WP:LOTM]]) </small> 17:10, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
[[eo:Paleozoiko]]

[[eu:Paleozoiko]]
== Blocking ==
[[fa:دیرینه‌زیستی]]

[[fr:Paléozoïque]]
I understand your concerns about the stubs, but firmly disagree. A minimal stub listing the name and location of a site (with founding date, reference number, and NRHP listing date in the infobox) is better than nothing at all. If all NRHPs deserve articles then why not take initiative and begin them and allow unregistered users to add info? I feel like your orders on my talk page are bordering on harassment. [[User:Swampyank|Swampyank]] ([[User talk:Swampyank|talk]]) 00:07, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
[[ko:고생대]]

[[hr:Paleozoik]]
:Discussion, before and after Swampyank's posting comment above here and there also, at [[User talk:Swampyank]]. [[User:Doncram|doncram]] ([[User talk:Doncram#top|talk]]) 00:28, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
[[id:Paleozoikum]]

[[is:Fornlífsöld]]
== HABS material ==
[[it:Paleozoico]]

[[he:פליאוזואיקון]]
I wasn't aware of the [[Historic American Buildings Survey]], Historic American Engineering Record, and Historic American Landscapes Survey materials, but obviously, they're good resources, and I'll use them. Figuring out how to add photos to Commons has been on my "To Do List", but I just haven't gotten around to it so I tend to take the quick route of photos as ELs. I'll take another look at uploading to Commons in the next day or two. --[[User:Rosiestep|Rosiestep]] ([[User talk:Rosiestep|talk]]) 20:10, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
[[kk:Палеозой]]

[[la:Aera Palaeozoica]]
== Columbia and Dutchess RHP tables ==
[[lb:Äerdaltertum]]

[[lt:Paleozojus]]
Hmm. Funny you should ask about this; I'm working on [[John Kane House]], a Dutchess RHP, right now.
[[hu:Paleozoikum]]

[[nl:Paleozoïcum]]
Don't worry about not having a Columbia-related HRHD pic; note that the [[List of National Historic Landmarks in Pennsylvania|PA NHL list]] uses a NY pic for [[Delaware and Hudson Canal]] (Someday I will get out into Wayne and Pike counties and take a PA-specific one). I am hoping also to get up there before the summer ends and get a contemporary pic of Montgomery Place; at that time I will certainly strive to get nearby RHPs and some in Columbia County (normally out of my range) as well.
[[ja:古生代]]

[[no:Paleozoikum]]
As for tableizing those lists ... since, as I said, I haven't really gotten up to Columbia County that much, I have nothing to say about that. ''But'' ... as for Dutchess, where I ''have'' done a lot of work, I would very strongly suggest that you separate the Poughkeepsie list (also include New Hamburg in that, as it's the southernmost portion of the [[Poughkeepsie (town), New York|Town of Poughkeepsie]], and I have pics of all but one of those properties in the pipeline), since it has almost a hundred entries, and strongly suggest the same with Hyde Park (including the two Staatsburg properties and [[Top Cottage]], the one listing in East Park) and Rhinebeck (again, that includes Rhinecliff as well). You'll have four much more manageable tables instead of one gigantic one.
[[nn:Paleozoikum]]

[[pl:Paleozoik]]
:Good work! Wow ... I always imagined what this would look like, although I'd like to see it all finished. I added to the POK list some the script hadn't put in (Innis Dye Works, ''Poughkeepsie Journal'' Building) and cleaned up after (didn't put in the dab term for Academy Street Historic District (I added one since there's another one in North Carolina), and a bunch of other things). I have about three more POK ones in the not-too-distant future coming along, so that should be nice (and almost all of the New Hamburg ones in the further future). And the map generated will make future trips there easier.<p>As for the coords, you used the NRIS ones? For the articles themselves I used what was on the ground ... I hope that's not why the Adriance Library is depicted as being across the street and the post office a block north of where it should be.<p>Now to go add pics to the Rhinebeck and Dutchess lists ... I guess we'll split Hyde Park later, I suppose. [[User:Daniel Case|Daniel Case]] ([[User talk:Daniel Case|talk]]) 04:54, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
[[pt:Paleozóico]]

[[ru:Палеозой]]
Other things you may want to know about ... I ventured into the town of Marlboro a couple of weekends ago with my son and, among other things, got a pic of the [[Dubois-Sarles Octagon]], which I will be adding to the [[List of octagon houses]] when I get around to creating the article.
[[simple:Paleozoic]]

[[sk:Paleozoikum]]
With the picture I got of Old Southeast Church this weekend, I have gotten all the listings in eastern Putnam County. I also discovered that NYSOPRHP mistakenly put the documents for most of the Nelsonville properties under Dutchess County (good enough for government work ... keep saying that!), so I can write short articles on them using the pictures I took last fall that, while I will not be able to get any DYKs out of them, will result in combination with articles I've written and plan to write in a more than 75% illustrated Putnam list hopefully by the time you get around to doing it. The tough part now is a lot of old estate houses in Garrison that are not easily visible from the road and will require going down their driveways, and maybe (''gasp!'') asking their owners' permission.
[[sl:Paleozoik]]

[[sr:Палеозоик]]
Finishing those would probably also make it possible to do a standalone tableized list for the Hudson Highlands Multiple Resource Area, a 1982 MPS that covers five different counties.
[[sh:Paleozoik]]

[[fi:Paleotsooinen maailmankausi]]
Lastly, I have heard back from NPS regarding terminology and will be posting the email to that page soon. [[User:Daniel Case|Daniel Case]] ([[User talk:Daniel Case|talk]]) 16:55, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
[[sv:Paleozoikum]]

[[vi:Đại Cổ sinh]]
Sorry it took me a while to respond but ... guess what? I had meant to tell you about this last night ''before'' I went on my latest excursion up the valley, but I was too busy using the Dutchess/Rhinebeck/Poughkeepsie and Columbia maps to put together an intinerary for my latest trip up to Albany and back, which I got back from a couple of hours ago.
[[tr:Paleozoik zaman]]

[[uk:Палеозойська ера]]
What did I get? Contemporary color pics of three NHLS: [[Montgomery Place]], [[Van Alen House]] and [[Schuyler Mansion]], which I will be uploading shortly per what's becoming my practice with NHL updates. I got a picture of the underside of the western [[Dunn Memorial Bridge]] onramps to show what the [[Fort Orange Archeological Site]] looks like now, but we may not want to use that on the NY NHL list. That's in addition to the Columbia County view of the Catskills across the Hudson you wanted (from Clermont), some additional pics for that article and four or five dozen RHP pics from Poughkeepsie to Albany. (Including some in Hyde Park. I can see not splitting that off now, but when I get most of these uploaded and create the articles I will split that one off. In addition to there being about 20+ listings, fully one-third of them have some connection to the Roosevelts, which is another reason to have a separate list). I must have taken 60 or so pictures for eventual use in articles ... God! Why do I give myself so much work (Answer:Because I can).
[[vo:Paleozoig]]

[[wa:Paleyozoyike]]
''On top of that'', on Thursday I went down to Garrison during the day and took care of a lot of those aforementioned estate houses. Based on what I have now, all but five of the Putnam listings will be illustrated (two aren't a problem ... Tompkins Corners is a little difficult to get to but I don't foresee any issues photographing the church there, and as Woodlawn is home to the [[Hastings Center]], it would probably be easier to shoot on a weekend. Rock Lawn is also being renovated at the moment; I could have shot it from near the front fence, and there is enough of the untouched villa visible, but it wouldn't really be fair. That leaves only, I think, the Hurst-Pierrepont and Thompson homes as ones that need to be approached carefully, when the light is right.
[[zh:古生代]]

I am hoping to finish uploading pics from that day in late May I'm working through right now, then finish my May uploads (only one other RHP in them) and probably take a break from RHPs for a while and maybe work on some SCOTUS cases I've been interested in that no one else in that project has done yet. Or finish tightening up the production section of ''[[The Devil Wears Prada (film)|The Devil Wears Prada]]'' as part of an eventual FA bid. Or both. Then, when I get back, I've got all those ones from Cohoes I did to work on. [[User:Daniel Case|Daniel Case]] ([[User talk:Daniel Case|talk]]) 04:41, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Well, I see you took care of tableizing pretty much all the NY lists! Wow! Just after I go and get a few more pics from NE Westchester ([[Somers Hamlet Historic District]] will soon have its own pic instead of having to use the [[Elephant Hotel]] one, and I basically took care of all the other Somers listings plus [[Bridge L-158]] (Somers Town House can be removed ... it was the original listing for the Elephant Hotel. Likewise I removed West Point from the Putnam list; it's really across the river whatever the NRHP says and frankly, I think they made a mistake).

That Putnam list looks mighty fine ... I was thinking of how many pics I will eventually be able to add to it that I have (I overcalculated the ones that will be a little harder to get ... more like four). Perhaps when you get the state NHL list up to FL status, I can do the same with the Putnam and other HV lists and we could have a nice featured topic possibility). I should also get cranking on sourcing the RI NHL list, writing up an intro and taking it to peer review. Among so many other things.

Had you consulted me prior to tableizing the other lists, I would have suggested breaking the towns of Cornwall (including Cornwall-on-Hudson and Mountainville) and Montgomery (including the villages of Maybrook, Montgomery and Walden) out separately due to their large numbers (I live in the latter, so it's a matter of some personal pride, too :-)).

In Ulster County Kingston should definitely have its own list. And in Westchester, I took Yonkers out already.

== NY county nrhp ==


Just so you know, I was doing something similar with ny county ( full list [[User:Dmadeo/nrhp-manhattan]]) and then breaking it into separate lists for the 4 divisions I had put in place last year [[User:Dmadeo|dm]] ([[User talk:Dmadeo|talk]]) 04:59, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

== DYK: Dutton-Waller Raised Tybee Cottage ==

{| class="messagebox {{#ifeq:|yes|small|standard}}-talk"
|-
|[[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px|Updated DYK query]]
|On [[14 August]], [[2008]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know?]]''' was updated with {{#if:|facts|a fact}} from the article{{#if:|s|}} '''''[[Dutton-Waller Raised Tybee Cottage]]'''''{{#if:|{{#if:|, |, and}} '''''[[{{{4}}}]]'''''
}}{{#if:|{{#if:|, |, and}} '''''[[{{{5}}}]]'''''
}}{{#if:|, and '''''[[{{{6}}}]]'''''}}, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know? talk page]].
|} <!-- [[{{CURRENTMONTHNAME}} {{CURRENTDAY}}]], [[{{CURRENTYEAR}}]] --> --[[User:PFHLai|PFHLai]] ([[User talk:PFHLai|talk]]) 23:43, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

== List of Registered Historic Places in Clinton County ==

Nice work on the table! One comment-- items 15 and 16 are the same, except for the town. I assume one of them should go? Also, item 13 is called D & H, while 15/16 are called Delaware & Hudson-- probably should be uniform? Cheers! -- [[User:Mwanner|Mwanner]] | [[User talk:Mwanner|Talk]] 00:27, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

==Thank you and my response==
Thank you for bringing that to my attention Doncram. I was not aware of the other conversation on the other page. However, after reading through comments made by yourself and others I still am giving a thumbs up to the inclusion of the [[Hampton-Preston House]]. I see nothing in the current requirements for DYK noms to meet the high standard you are advocating for citation/references. There is also currently not a precedent in place to denye this particular article approval for the reasons mentioned by yourself, as a high volume of articles with similar issues are passed regularly. However, I applaud your efforts to improve the process at DYK and encourage you to pursue this matter further outside of a debate over one particular article. This will avoid what I see as a muddying of the issue due to a somewhat tenuous history between yourself and [[User:Bedford]].[[User:Nrswanson|Nrswanson]] ([[User talk:Nrswanson|talk]]) 04:44, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

==WP: Historic Sites or some such?==
If you do get such a Wikiproject going, please let me know - I'd be most interested. I've translated a few articles from the French about federally-recognized Official Monuments, and I'd like to see some standardized way of handling such things.

By the way, I'm afraid I've been one of the flies in the ointment over the whole "light vs. lighthouse" debate; sorry about giving you such heartburn over that. (I prefer the former, incidentally.) --[[User:AlbertHerring]] <sup>[[User_talk:AlbertHerring|Io son l'orecchio e tu la bocca: parla!]]</sup>

== August 2008 ==
[[Image:Information.svg|25px|]] Welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia, we must insist that you [[WP:AGF|assume good faith]] while interacting with other editors{{#if:User:King Bedford|, which you did not on [[:User:Bedford]]}}. Take a look at the [[Wikipedia:Welcome|welcome page]] to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. {{#if:|{{{2}}}|Thank you.}}<!-- Template:uw-agf1 --> ''Any response?'' [[User:Hellboy2hell|H2H]] ([[User talk:Hellboy2hell|talk]]) 05:15, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
:I'm sorry, but you do not have perspective on the running disagreements between Bedford and myself, in which he has been incredibly incivil and engaged in numerous personal attacks. I don't know what you are referring to specifically now, but after being patient for a very long time it eventually becomes impossible to "assume good faith" on his part. I saw somewhere recently that assuming good faith was perhaps downgraded from being a policy to a guideline, perhaps due to the problem, as probably applies here, in attempting to require rational people to believe an obviously incorrect proposition. [[User:Doncram|doncram]] ([[User talk:Doncram#top|talk]]) 05:48, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

== National Parks of New York Harbor ==

In order to get broader consensus, I opened [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requested_moves#15_August_2008 a discussion] at RM since this is clearly a controversial move. My reasoning hasn't changed, it's the proper legal name of the organization regardless of in-text discussion of phrasing. <font face="Verdana"><font color="Blue">[[User_talk:Travellingcari|TravellingCari]]</font></font> 13:00, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

== Re: List of Registered Historic Places in Monroe County, New York ==

Thanks for the information; I'll see what I can do. =) [[User:LtPowers|Powers]] <sup><small><small>[[User talk:LtPowers|T]]</small></small></sup> 17:04, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[WP:CHICAGO]] leadership ==

This month you have indicated new or continuing interest in [[WP:CHICAGO]] as either an active or semi-active member. The response to the project membership survey was strong enough that we should attempt to organize it in a more fully functional way. Please sign up at [[Wikipedia:CHICAGO/leadership]] if you would be willing to serve as a leader of the project from September 1, 2008 to February 28, 2009. The various leadership responsibilities are listed there. The roles will be somewhat similar to the roles of [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Coordinators]]. We are a less mature and developed project than [[WP:MILHIST]] however, so our division of roles will be slightly different. Please respond by the 23rd.--[[User:TonyTheTiger|TonyTheTiger]] <small>([[User talk:TonyTheTiger|t]]/[[Special:Contributions/TonyTheTiger|c]]/[[User:TonyTheTiger/Antonio Vernon|bio]]/[[WP:CHICAGO]]/[[WP:LOTM]]) </small> 18:56, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

== A modest suggestion, humbly offered ==

I haven't followed the specifics of the wiki-disagreements which have embroiled yourself and [[User:Bedford]]. Given the situation you characterize, you do yourself credit when you announce inherent bias in disagreements with that editor. However, I humbly suggest you refrain further from discussing or even describing the user, keeping your comments to the subject at hand, as best is possible. IMHO, when a wikiperson acts like a duck, smart wikipeople who read the discussion will recognize duck-like behavior. Best to stay out of the muck yourself. Don't take this as warning, more like friendly, encouraging feedback. [[User:BusterD|BusterD]] ([[User talk:BusterD|talk]]) 23:24, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
:I see we have Bruce Catton's ''The Golden Book of the Civil War'' in common. The one with the really cool maps. I still have the copy I owned as a child. [[User:BusterD|BusterD]] ([[User talk:BusterD|talk]]) 00:09, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

== Welcome to the Military history project ==

<div class="plainlinks" style="margin: 0.5em; border: 2px lightsteelblue solid; background: whitesmoke; padding: 1em;" >
[[Image:Waricon.svg|right|48px|]]
Hi, and welcome to the [[WP:MILHIST|Military history WikiProject]]! As you may have guessed, we're a group of editors working to improve Wikipedia's coverage of topics related to military history.

A few features that you might find helpful:

* Our [[Template:WPMILHIST Navigation|navigation box]] points to most of the useful pages within the project.
* The [[Template:WPMILHIST Announcements|announcement and open task box]] is updated very frequently. You can [{{fullurl:Template:WPMILHIST Announcements|action=watch}} watchlist it] if you're interested; or, you can add it directly to your user page by including {{tl|WPMILHIST Announcements}} there.
* Most important discussions take place on the project's [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Military history|main discussion page]]; it is highly recommended that you [{{SERVER}}{{localurl:Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history|action=watch}} watchlist it].
* The project has several [[WP:MILHIST#Departments|departments]], which handle [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment|article quality assessment]], [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Review|detailed article and content review]], [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Contest|writing contests]], [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Logistics|article logistics]], and other tasks.
* We have a number of [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history#Task forces|task forces]] that focus on specific topics, nations, periods, and conflicts.
* We've developed a [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Style guide|style guide]] that covers article structure and content, template use, categorization, and many other issues of interest.
* If you're looking for something to work on, there are many [[:Category:Military history articles needing attention|articles that need attention]], as well as a number of [[Template:WPMILHIST Review alerts|review alerts]] and [[Template:WPMILHIST Copy-editing alerts|copy-editing alerts]].
* The project has a [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Outreach/Hotline|stress hotline]] available for your use.

If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask one of the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Coordinators|project coordinators]], or any experienced member of the project, and we'll be happy to help you. Again, welcome! We look forward to seeing you around! [[User:Woody|Woody]] ([[User talk:Woody|talk]]) 08:30, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
</div>

== Status of NY NRHP lists ==

Hi doncram ... I checked the New York lists against my spreadsheet of NRHP recent listings posted between March 28 and August 8. Not surprisingly, some counties are up to date and others are not. The following counties have recent listings that are nowhere to be found in their WP list articles:

*<s>Delaware: Rock Valley School (added 5/12/2008)</s>
*<s>New York: House at 145 East 38th St. (5/21/2008)</s>
*<s>New York: Fraunces Tavern (3/6/2008)</s>
*<s>Ontario: Smith Observatory and Dr. William R. Brooks House (4/11/2008)</s>
*<s>Oswego: Standard Yarn Company Building (5/15/2008)</s>
*<s>Queens: Trinity Lutheran Church (5/29/2008)</s>
*<s>Steuben: Hammondsport Union Free School (5/15/2008)</s>
*<s>Westchester: Scarsdale Woman's Club (2/29/2008)</s>

<s>The Niagara County page lists Chase-Crowley-Keep House and Chase-Hubbard-Williams House at the bottom under a "research needed" heading. Both sites were added to the NRHP 5/21/2008.</s> Updated for those. --doncram

For all other counties, the non-table-ized lists are current through recent listings of 8/8/2008, but, with the exception of East Charity Shoal Light in Jefferson County, the listings that aren't included in Elkman's database don't appear in the tables.

Hope that helps. --[[User:Sanfranman59|Sanfranman59]] ([[User talk:Sanfranman59|talk]]) 18:37, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

:Yes, thanks a lot! Will be updating all now to use {{tl|New York NRHP date for lists}}. [[User:Doncram|doncram]] ([[User talk:Doncram#top|talk]]) 19:35, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
::BTW: I've been working on the manhattan lists, its very hard to line up the old version and the elkman version. I want to get it right *before* we start breaking it up into the four regions in the city. [[User:Dmadeo|dm]] ([[User talk:Dmadeo|talk]]) 16:40, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
:::Sorry, wasnt suggesting throwing your work away. I've taken the lists offline and have been writing scripts to compare them as best as possible, there are lots of extras in the current list, but if you spend time on them, they turn out to be something else... Anyway, I'm going to walk away from it for a bit, then try again. [[User:Dmadeo|dm]] ([[User talk:Dmadeo|talk]]) 05:14, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
:::I am working on [[List of Registered Historic Places in Manhattan below 14th Street]], first, will follow up to Dmadeo talk page later. [[User:Doncram|doncram]] ([[User talk:Doncram#top|talk]]) 15:44, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
:::: I havent made much progress, and since you're already working the list over, I think I'll defer until you are done. What I did before you started was go through all the ones I knew existed and created redirects. There are still some which point at the wrong article etc, I'll wait until you're done before trying to fix those (since many of them will be pipes, rather than redirects). The redlinks which really are redlinks I'll see what I can fill in. I have photos for most of them from last year, but at the time, elkmans generator wasnt ready. Now of course, it is. [[User:Dmadeo|dm]] ([[User talk:Dmadeo|talk]]) 22:57, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

== Jay Bridge ==

I have uploaded a picture of [[Jay Bridge]], one that you had alerted me to the need for way back when. The article said "The bridge is eligible to be listed on the National Register of Historic Places once it is repositioned across the river", which I have changed to "It is eligible to be listed in the NRHP", as the bridge is decidedly in place. Any idea when it is likely to be actually listed? I searched the database and found nada. TIA, -- [[User:Mwanner|Mwanner]] | [[User talk:Mwanner|Talk]] 20:40, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Lewis House]] ==

Hi, Someone has been deleting all redlinks from this one which you created and other NRHP disambig pages. If only one blue link remains, he changes it into a redirect. I've reversed two of his name changes to NRHP articles. and don't want to go any further. How do we protect against this? [[User:Clariosophic|clariosophic]] ([[User talk:Clariosophic|talk]]) 01:57, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

==[[User:Tavix]]==
Hi;

From what I can tell, his edits on the NRHP-related pages are inappropriate. I don't know a lot about this topic, but to delete the redlinks on the DAB pages definitely seems counterproductive in this case, since the articles could and probably will exist eventually for all the sites, all of which probably meet WP notability requirements. (I've noticed that some editors are particularly disturbed by redlinks and they delete them whenever they can, without regard to whether or not it's actually improving anything apart from their preferred appearance of a page. It might be a case of this, but judging by the other related edits, I'm not sure.)

I notice s/he hasn't made an edit since 01:45, 18 August 2008, which is prior to your messages being posted on the user's talk page. I think I should allow him to have a chance to respond to your messages. If he doesn't respond and continues to make these types of edits or if he replies with any sort of hostility, could you let me know again and then maybe I could try to step in and provide some back-up for you?, because I definitely agree with your assessment of the edits. [[User:Good Olfactory|Good Ol’factory]] <sup>[[User talk:Good Olfactory|(talk)]]</sup> 03:20, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
:* Yep, that's me. Sorry for removing the redlinks, I don't know what I was thinking. [[User:Tavix|Tavix]] ([[User talk:Tavix|talk]]) 23:26, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
:::I don't have an opinion about Tavix's actions, which I haven't reviewed, but [[WP:MOSDAB]] requires that every entry on a disambiguation page contain, somewhere in it, a blue link to an article. [[User:Deor|Deor]] ([[User talk:Deor|talk]]) 01:43, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

== More Pittsburgh ==

I've added more pictures to [[List of Registered Historic Places in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania]] and [[List of Registered Historic Places in Pittsburgh]], some of which I found online already. One note: I discovered that there are separate articles on [[Chatham Village Historic District]] and [[Chatham Village]]. [[User:Nyttend|Nyttend]] ([[User talk:Nyttend|talk]]) 20:22, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
:Also: do you know what to do to shrink the images for articles such as [[Duquesne Incline]], [[Homestead Grays Bridge]], and [[Monongahela Incline]]? I tried modifying the image sizes, but it's obvious that the images are larger than the 250px shown on the Mon. article. [[User:Nyttend|Nyttend]] ([[User talk:Nyttend|talk]]) 20:30, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

While you were away, so was I. I was in Pittsburgh at a wedding and took pics of [[Woodville (Heidelberg, Pennsylvania)|Woodville]] and the [[Bost Building]], then added them to the PA NHL and Allegheny County lists. [[User:Daniel Case|Daniel Case]] ([[User talk:Daniel Case|talk]]) 04:56, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

:Now that you renumbered all those [[List of Registered Historic Places in Pittsburgh|Pittsburgh NRHP sites]], could you renumber them again? The [[Gardner-Bailey House]] is located in [[Edgewood, Allegheny County, Pennsylvania|Edgewood]], not in Pittsburgh. [[User:Nyttend|Nyttend]] ([[User talk:Nyttend|talk]]) 00:21, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

== A request ==

Hi doncram ... I have a request. When you table-ize lists, would you please retain any disambiguation links from the original lists? One of the things I do when I work on a table is to check for listings with identical names in other locations. When I find them, I disambiguate the links in the tables or old style lists. As I'm sure you can appreciate, this is painstaking work and I find it very frustrating to go over ground again that I've already covered once. Thanks ... --[[User:Sanfranman59|Sanfranman59]] ([[User talk:Sanfranman59|talk]]) 01:05, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

:I don't know what else to say. I posted my message here after I discovered that disambiguations I'd done back in June on the old-style list at [[List of Registered Historic Places in Albany County, New York]] weren't reflected in the current table-ized version. My M.O. when converting the old lists to tables has been to retain all disambiguation links from the old lists rather than leaving it for someone else to do. I figured it couldn't hurt to ask you to do the same, but I recognize that we all have different approaches out here and mine is no better or worse than yours. Vive la différence!

:As for the piped links, I thought that there'd been agreement somewhere that we would do this in these lists, but I can't find the discussion now and don't really want to comb through the archives to find it. Do you think this is something we should raise at the [[WP:NRHP]] talk page?

::No, although I don't think it is a big problem if the parenthetical expressions as in Smith House (Albany, New York) show, I agree the practice/precedent/"right" thing to do is to do pipelinks, so just Smith House shows. I will try to be more careful/consistent about this. [[User:Doncram|doncram]] ([[User talk:Doncram#top|talk]]) 00:23, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

:Finally, I was not unaware of the list below the table, but it wasn't clear to me what was meant by "to be merged into table above, verifying no info is lost". Again, you and I seem to have a different approach to converting the old-style lists into tables. Perhaps it would be helpful to include a note or a hidden comment with instructions as to what you're leaving for others to do. --[[User:Sanfranman59|Sanfranman59]] ([[User talk:Sanfranman59|talk]]) 18:52, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

::Yes, my section titles below could themselves be clearer, and/or there could be more written openly or hidden in comments about what is left to be done. And, I see all the more reason to finish processing those previous lists below to take away the issue. It is a lot of work though, there are so many to check, but it does seem like it has to be done. I plan to keep working on New York State RHPs to do this though, and not start on new states. [[User:Doncram|doncram]] ([[User talk:Doncram#top|talk]]) 00:23, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

:::I think the database used by Elkman's table generator dates back to April 24. That's the database refresh date that's indicated on the NRIS search page and I'm reasonably certain that Elkman has that version of the database. But it couldn't hurt to go back a few additional weeks just to be certain you get everything. I put together a spreadsheet of all new listings from 3/28 through 8/8 and was using that to update our NRHP lists. I've just returned from a couple of weeks away and was planning to resume my work on the lists. Since you're taking on the New York lists, I'll skip them. Would it help you if I sent you the New York additions from the above time period or have you already clicked through all of the links on the NPS recent listings page? --[[User:Sanfranman59|Sanfranman59]] ([[User talk:Sanfranman59|talk]]) 02:39, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

==[[NRIS info issues]]==
Hi, I've put a speedy deletion tag on [[NRIS info issues]] because it's a redirect from article space to Wikipedia space, that's not generally acceptable. <font face="Comic sans">[[User:Corvus cornix|<span style="color:green">Corvus cornix</span>]]<sub>''[[User talk:Corvus cornix|<span style="color:Green">talk</span>]]''</sub></font> 21:13, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

== RE: Your recent message, ==

Hi, thanks for the message. I'm OK with just improving the Canada section. I started one article today in my sandbox and will do more. They're not as easy as US ones but I think I've listed enough tools in the List talk page. The Afd stuff irritates me because it is seems so negative and wastes time that could be spent on positive things. Tropical Storm Fay disrupted my week also, not that I had any direct damage but it caused lots of inconvenience and brought back bad memories of the 2004 and 2005 hurricanes. Things are getting back to normal , but we're still getting heavy rains. Best wishes. [[User:Clariosophic|clariosophic]] ([[User talk:Clariosophic|talk]]) 05:13, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

== St. Peter's pic ==

Close your image brackets on the List of...below 14th...I would have done it, but was afraid I'd cause an edit conflict. [[User:Lvklock|Lvklock]] ([[User talk:Lvklock|talk]]) 05:46, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
:Thanks. Done (and considerably more fixed up with that article, [[List of Registered Historic Places in Manhattan below 14th Street]], too. [[User:Doncram|doncram]] ([[User talk:Doncram#top|talk]]) 02:57, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

== Joseph H. Rainey House ==

{| class="messagebox {{#ifeq:|yes|small|standard}}-talk"
|-
|[[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px|Updated DYK query]]
|On [[23 August]], [[2008]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know?]]''' was updated with {{#if:|facts|a fact}} from the article{{#if:|s|}} '''''[[Joseph H. Rainey House]]'''''{{#if:|{{#if:|, |, and}} '''''[[{{{4}}}]]'''''
}}{{#if:|{{#if:|, |, and}} '''''[[{{{5}}}]]'''''
}}{{#if:|, and '''''[[{{{6}}}]]'''''}}, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know? talk page]].
|} <!-- [[{{CURRENTMONTHNAME}} {{CURRENTDAY}}]], [[{{CURRENTYEAR}}]] --> --Cheers, [[User:Casliber|Casliber]] ([[User talk:Casliber|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contributions/Casliber|contribs]]) 06:46, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

== FL candidacy List of NHLs in NY ==

Funny you should mention this, because tomorrow I'm going to Albany again ... and, I hope, points beyond. I am going to shoot for pictures of the Saratoga ones, [[Owl's Head]] in Lake George, and maybe the Langmuir and Watson houses. Plus any relevant nearby RHPs.

Also, recently, I've gotten a lot of Rockland stuff, and today I was down in Peekskill as well. [[User:Daniel Case|Daniel Case]] ([[User talk:Daniel Case|talk]]) 02:15, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

: I was trying to decide if I can make it up that way, so I'm glad to hear Dan will be in Albany as well. [[User:Dmadeo|dm]] ([[User talk:Dmadeo|talk]]) 04:12, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

As you may already have noticed, I was wildly successful. [[Irving Langmuir House]], [[Nott Memorial Hall]] and [[Canfield Casino and Congress Park]] have contemporary color photos now. [[Petrified Sea Gardens]], [[Owl's Nest]] and [[lemuel Haynes House]] have pictures too. I also got, as I promised, lots of other RHPs in the area (I'm going to be busy with this summer's images through next year, I bet. And I don't think I'm finished yet). [[User:Daniel Case|Daniel Case]] ([[User talk:Daniel Case|talk]]) 15:51, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

: Re burned out, hey, do what you have to - including walking away for a while, it'll take care of itself... re the maps, I'll remove it. [[User:Dmadeo|dm]] ([[User talk:Dmadeo|talk]]) 03:19, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

I got the Garrett Smith Estate in Madison County today. I'll try to get it uploaded this weekend. [[User:Lvklock|Lvklock]] ([[User talk:Lvklock|talk]]) 23:25, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

== Cobblestone Farmhouse new listing ==

Sure, I'll be glad to work on the Cobblestone Farmhouse article (and, you're welcome for the other.) I just got my computer back from a motherboard repair and was kind of casting about wondering what to do next. Also, I've added the FL nom to my watchlist and will be glad to help wherever I can. [[User:Lvklock|Lvklock]] ([[User talk:Lvklock|talk]]) 02:25, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

:Oops. Too late. Already started in mainspace. On the upside, I'm off work this week, so should have plenty of time to work on it. I'll look at the other, too. [[User:Lvklock|Lvklock]] ([[User talk:Lvklock|talk]]) 03:50, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

::Hmmm. The individual nom describes this prop as Middle Era cobblestone architecture, but the description seems to me to match Early in the MPS. Take a look and see what you think? [[User:Lvklock|Lvklock]] ([[User talk:Lvklock|talk]]) 04:33, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

:::Thanks for doing the dyk nom. I'm sorry I didn't get to the Nakashima article. There's probably enough there to do a good 5X expansion at some point. [[User:Lvklock|Lvklock]] ([[User talk:Lvklock|talk]]) 04:20, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for sending the credit my way. You deserve it, too!
{| class="messagebox {{#ifeq:|yes|small|standard}}-talk"
|-
|[[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px|Updated DYK query]]
|On [[31 August]], [[2008]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know?]]''' was updated with {{#if:|facts|a fact}} from the article{{#if:|s|}} '''''[[Cobblestone Farmhouse at 1229 Birdsey Road]]'''''{{#if:|{{#if:|, |, and}} '''''[[{{{4}}}]]'''''
}}{{#if:|{{#if:|, |, and}} '''''[[{{{5}}}]]'''''
}}{{#if:|, and '''''[[{{{6}}}]]'''''}}, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know? talk page]].
|} <!-- [[{{CURRENTMONTHNAME}} {{CURRENTDAY}}]], [[{{CURRENTYEAR}}]] -->
[[User:Lvklock|Lvklock]] ([[User talk:Lvklock|talk]]) 03:48, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

== X at Y Foobar street ==

Actually, I seriously doubt there "there is a general issue to discuss", because all such articles I know of except those that use the (Sorry, but I have to say it) moronic naming convention of the NRHP use the Y, Foobar street format, and even amongst the NRHP articles I don't think there are all that many that uses it, whereas I can find numerous non-NRHP articles that nobody would ever consider putting at "Building at Y, Foobar street", because people have common sense. [[User:Circeus|Circeus]] ([[User talk:Circeus|talk]]) 17:53, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

== Cooleemee image ==

I think the reason it's not showing is because it [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:CooleemeePlantation_FirstFloorPlan_HABS_cropped.jpg doesn't appear] that the image was uploaded properly. I just get a white box even there. Firefox on a PC. <font face="Verdana"><font color="Blue">[[User_talk:Travellingcari|TravellingCari]]</font></font> 21:39, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
:and clicking further it says, ''The image “http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f6/CooleemeePlantation_FirstFloorPlan_HABS_cropped.jpg” cannot be displayed, because it contains errors.'' Sounds as if there was a hiccup on upload, not an infobox issue. <font face="Verdana"><font color="Blue">[[User_talk:Travellingcari|TravellingCari]]</font></font> 21:41, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
::Replaced at [[Cooleemee]] by a new version, differently named. I dont know for sure, but the problem for this HABS image may have been that it was in TIFF format to start, an inefficient, large-size format. Most HABS pics are JPG i think. Or the problem with the upload was somehow with my computer, newly using Firefox 3. [[User:Doncram|doncram]] ([[User talk:Doncram#top|talk]]) 22:09, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
:::Shows fine now on my Mac. I have no idea what you said above, I don't speak image but it's working -- and that's a good thing :) <font face="Verdana"><font color="Blue">[[User_talk:Travellingcari|TravellingCari]]</font></font> 23:45, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

==Millard House==
Thanks for the note, Don. On the Millard House hook, I added the url link later, and linked to the wrong article. The article containing the quote is apparently not available for free access, but the quote in the hook is a direct quote from the article noted. It can be verified by anyone with a Los Angeles Public Library card, which allows access to LA Times archives free of charge. I'll help out some this afternoon with the DYK backlog.[[User:Cbl62|Cbl62]] ([[User talk:Cbl62|talk]]) 22:42, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
:I found the correct url and also added two more cites for the Wright quote in the DYK hook. I also have reviewed several entries on the DYK Suggestions page to help with the backlog. If you have a moment to re-review the Millard House hook (now that I've fixed the url), that would be great.[[User:Cbl62|Cbl62]] ([[User talk:Cbl62|talk]]) 00:02, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

== NY NRHP list additions ==

You got it ... I didn't add the new listings into the larger tables (Dutchess, Albany) because it was getting close to dinner time and I didn't want to do all the renumbering (We really need to work on that, find some way to have it done automatically). I'm excited ... I knew some of these listings were coming but I didn't expect them all the week before Labor Day. Quite a few are in easy reach from me ... two of Orange County's three newly-listed churches are within walking distance of me (St. Andrew's I took a pic of a few weeks back because I knew it was on the state Register already, awaiting this; Walden United Methodist had been trying to get this for some time, and since I walk or drive past it almost daily I've often thought its dark red High Victorian Gothic look (it was built in the 1890s) would make a great picture if it ever got listed). Christ Church ... Middletown has a disappointingly small number of listings for a city its size and age; now I can add another one of its beautiful churches (and, I realized when putting all the pics in the list, take an actual contemporary pic of Morrison Hall).

BTW, speaking of Middletown, I wonder what we should do about some of the properties that are no longer extant ... Middletown's Oliver Avenue Bridge is gone, as are Hyatt-Livingston House in Dobbs Ferry (burned down, early 1990s), Winchell House in New Windsor (as far as I can tell ... both the HABS report and the NRHP nom from the early 1970s describe a building in an advanced state of deterioration), Poughkeepsie's old City Hall. Maybe we should color-code them black in the infobox. I am really tempted to get a form and nominate them for delisting myself so I don't have to work on the articles. [[User:Daniel Case|Daniel Case]] ([[User talk:Daniel Case|talk]]) 03:56, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

I meant the Haskell House, yes. [[User:Daniel Case|Daniel Case]] ([[User talk:Daniel Case|talk]]) 13:31, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

== Cooleemee DYK ==

Hi Doncram, you earned this one just as much as I did. Thanks so much for your help on it! <font face="Verdana"><font color="Blue">[[User_talk:Travellingcari|TravellingCari]]</font></font> 19:40, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

{| class="messagebox {{#ifeq:|yes|small|standard}}-talk"
|-
|[[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px|Updated DYK query]]
|On [[31 August]], [[2008]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know?]]''' was updated with {{#if:|facts|a fact}} from the article{{#if:|s|}} '''''[[Cooleemee]]'''''{{#if:|{{#if:|, |, and}} '''''[[{{{4}}}]]'''''
}}{{#if:|{{#if:|, |, and}} '''''[[{{{5}}}]]'''''
}}{{#if:|, and '''''[[{{{6}}}]]'''''}}, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know? talk page]].
|} <!-- [[{{CURRENTMONTHNAME}} {{CURRENTDAY}}]], [[{{CURRENTYEAR}}]] -->

== RHP lists in NY ==

Well, Franklin and Essex are my home counties, so to speak. I've kind of been picking the low hanging fruit, so far. One of the real problems is that they did a 911 renumbering (grrr!) of all the streets here since some of the better texts on these properties were written, so trying to figure out where a given place is can be tricky. So we'll get there, but it will take a while. Thanks for creating the tables-- they make a great frame for organizing the material. -- [[User:Mwanner|Mwanner]] | [[User talk:Mwanner|Talk]] 21:05, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

==Table-izing Texas RHP lists==
I had no idea about the tool. I'll give it try. Thanks [[User:Nv8200p|Nv8200p]] [[User_talk:Nv8200p|talk]] 21:23, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

== AWB ==

You are free to use AWB now. :) &nbsp; '''[[User:Jj137|<font color="#008040">jj137</font>]] [[User talk:Jj137|<font color="#008040">(</font><font color="black">talk</font><font color="#008040">)</font>]]''' 22:20, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

== Nominations for the Military history WikiProject coordinator election ==
The [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Coordinators|Military history WikiProject coordinator]] selection process is starting. We are aiming to elect nine coordinators to serve for the next six months; if you are interested in running, please sign up [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Coordinators/September 2008|here]] by 23:59 (UTC) on September 14!<br /><small>This has been an automated delivery by [[User:BrownBot|BrownBot]] ([[User talk:BrownBot|talk]]) 21:57, 1 September 2008 (UTC)</small>

== Essex county ==

I finished off the "to be checked" section of the [[List of Registered Historic Places in Essex County, New York|Essex county list]]-- I added the Delaware and Hudson station at Ticonderoga, which was the only item missing. You might want to check it's date: I was unclear which date from the NRHP form should be used. Also, I think I saw something here that suggested that you have a renumbering algorithm? If so, it should be run; if not, let me know and I'll do it the hard way.

By the way, I made the mistake of looking at the viewing stats on these list articles-- [http://stats.grok.se/en/200805/List%20of%20Registered%20Historic%20Places%20in%20Franklin%20County%2C%20New%20York the results] are kinda depressing! One thing that struck me is that, at least for Franklin and Essex, the county article doesn't link to the list. I fixed that for those two, but increasing the number of inbound links to the articles seems like something to consider down the road, eh? TIA, -- [[User:Mwanner|Mwanner]] | [[User talk:Mwanner|Talk]] 22:48, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

:Ah, I took it from [http://www.oprhp.state.ny.us/hpimaging/hp_view.asp?GroupView=3642 here], which I've just come across. Didn't occur to me that it could have been delisted, or even a submission not yet approved. In any case, I will pull it from the list, pending clarification. Thanks, -- [[User:Mwanner|Mwanner]] | [[User talk:Mwanner|Talk]] 23:58, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

== The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXX (August 2008) ==
The '''[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Outreach/Newsletter August 2008|August 2008 issue]]''' of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.<br /><small>This has been an automated delivery by [[User:BrownBot|BrownBot]] ([[User talk:BrownBot|talk]]) 22:53, 2 September 2008 (UTC)</small>

== wp:NRHP welcome, and more ==

Hello and thanks for the welcome, the kudos, and the tips!

As for that NRHP infobox, not being able to find an existing one readily, I actually adapted that from a box added by someone else to an article I wrote on [[Vollintine Hills Historic District]] and one of its contributing properties, so please do feel free to edit it in the [[Easley High School Auditorium]] article. I'll definitely check out the infobox generator you recommended.

Many thanks!

--[[User:Contributingfactor|Contributingfactor]] ([[User talk:Contributingfactor|talk]]) 01:32, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

::Got your message, good. Ah, yes, i see that it was NRHP regular Clariosophic who added the infobox for your nice Vollintine Hills Historic District article. Hope you have that article on your watchlist, i may edit it a bit also, to put the NRHP document reference into a somewhat standardized format, too, which gives explicit credit to the author of the form, given usually in section 11 of the NRHP document. Cheers, doncram (talk) 01:46, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

:::Hi, doncram, I copied and pasted here (above) the part of the thread of our conversation you had added to my talk page (not entirely sure of the protocol of talk pages and how best to keep the "conversation" easily referencable). Thanks for cleaning up the formatting of the references on the Vollintine Hills Historic District article. That's a task that's definitely on my "to do" list for NRHP-related articles I've worked on (especially Baron Hirsch Synagogue - a CP of Vollintine Hills) and others. Also, the new infobox on the Easley High School Auditorium article looks really great. The formatting beneath seemed to shift somehow, though, and I don't know how to correct it. There are now several blank lines between the section head "Architecture" and the beginning of the text in that section, yet I don't see any extra blank lines when I switch to "Edit this page" fomat. Can you help, please? Thanks for your guidance. Best regards, --[[User:Contributingfactor|Contributingfactor]] ([[User talk:Contributingfactor|talk]]) 00:36, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

== Talkback ==

I replied [[Wikipedia talk:Did you know‎|here]]....Thanks. <font face="Monotype Corsiva">'''[[User talk:the_ed17|<font color="8000000">the_ed</font>]][[Special:Contributions/the_ed17|<font color=font color="8000000">17</font>]]'''</font face> 20:42, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

== {{Talkback}} ==

{{Talkback|the_ed17}}

== USS Iowa (BB-61) ==

Following our discussion on the FAR for Iowa class battleship I decided to rebuild [[USS Iowa (BB-61)]] without relying on DANFS as a primary source. I would like a second opinion on how well it came out, if you wouldn't mind providing one. If this works out, then we can ween the other three Iowa class articles off DANFS gradually and that should allievate the concerns you have regarding plagerism. [[User:TomStar81|TomStar81]] ([[User talk:TomStar81|Talk]]) 02:21, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

== DYK ~ [[Peshekee River Bridge]] ==

{| class="messagebox {{#ifeq:|yes|small|standard}}-talk"
|-
|[[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px|Updated DYK query]]
|On [[5 September]], [[2008]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know?]]''' was updated with {{#if:|facts|a fact}} from the article{{#if:|s|}} '''''[[Peshekee River Bridge]]'''''{{#if:|{{#if:|, |, and}} '''''[[{{{4}}}]]'''''
}}{{#if:|{{#if:|, |, and}} '''''[[{{{5}}}]]'''''
}}{{#if:|, and '''''[[{{{6}}}]]'''''}}, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know? talk page]].
|} <!-- [[{{CURRENTMONTHNAME}} {{CURRENTDAY}}]], [[{{CURRENTYEAR}}]] -->
Thanks, <font face="Helvetica">[[User:Hassocks5489|<font color="#00BFFF"><b>Hassocks</b></font>]][[User talk:Hassocks5489|<font color="#228B22">5489<small> (tickets please!)</small></font>]]</font> 17:02, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
==[[East Hampton (LIRR station)]]==
Wow, what a spectacular job! And doing it for the whole state too! That should get me motivated. Anyway, in looking at the list I didn't see the LIRR Station in East Hampton which I know is on the list (although added in 2000 so your list may be out of date). Again spectacular job and you've done a nice job of getting around "district" expansion issues. [[User:Americasroof|Americasroof]] ([[User talk:Americasroof|talk]]) 19:04, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
:Never mind. It's there on the suffolk county list with a photo. I was searching for "train." You've really really, really done a spectacular job. Thanks again!

== [[Trunk Line Bridge No. 1]] ==

Could you please check [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Trunk_Line_Bridge_No._1&diff=236503956&oldid=236494772 my edit]; the former value was likely wrong. Might that be yards? --[[User:Matthiasb|Matthiasb]] ([[User talk:Matthiasb|talk]]) 19:19, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

== Table-izing ==

To do everything, I would estimate that it takes me anywhere from about one to four hours per table depending of course upon the state of the page when I begin working on it and the number of entries. I'm working my way through New Jersey now. It took me about an hour-and-a-half to get the Burlington County table up to snuff last night. In that case, someone had already table-ized the list, but with a pretty early version of Elkman's tool, so there was a good bit of editing required to add geocode coordinates and dts2-style dates. It took me about 10 days (approximately 25 hours of total work) to table-ize the 8 Connecticut counties plus Hartford and about 8 or 9 days for the 10 New Hampshire counties. In both cases, I was starting from scratch with the old style lists. Not all of my time is spent working specifically on one page. I spend a good deal of time dabbing links on other pages. For example, when I got to South Congregational Church on the New Britain County, CT page, I went to the Kings County, NY; Sullivan County, NH; and Hampden County, MA pages and dabbed the South Congregational Church links on those pages while I was at it. Until recently, I haven't been taking the time to create dab pages. Now I'm only doing it if at least one of the listings already has a WP article. My focus is on creating the table-ized lists and I'm trying not to get too side-tracked with creating new articles. --[[User:Sanfranman59|Sanfranman59]] ([[User talk:Sanfranman59|talk]]) 21:07, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

== New banner for WikiProject Statistics ==

Hello, I noticed that you created an alternate banner {{tl|WikiProject Statistics}}. However, [[User:WolterBot]] creates [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Statistics/Cleanup listing]] from the list of articles that use {{tl|WPStatistics}}. I do not know how the bot works and whether it can accomodate projects that use more than one banner. Unless the bot can identify articles that use either version of the banner, I suggest we use only the original banner. Regards&mdash;'''''[[User:G716|<font color="Purple">G716</font>]]'''''&nbsp;&lt;[[User talk:G716|<sup>T</sup>]]·[[Special:Contributions/G716|<sub>C</sub>]]&gt; 14:53, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

== Chemung County ==

I might be taking a little drive to Chemung County tomorrow. I'm unprepared, listwise. Do you know any way to save an article (such as the List of Registered Historic Places in Chemung County) as a file on my laptop? I don't have a printer, and I'd like to have it with me. When I try saving it as a PDF it cuts off the right side of the article, including the column with the town.[[User:Lvklock|Lvklock]] ([[User talk:Lvklock|talk]]) 00:16, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
*Newtown Battlefield is the primary aim. I'm taking the rest of the Chemung County stuff to see what else I can grab while I'm there. It's not a bright sunny day (remnants of Hanna moving out - overcast, dry & cool), but hopefully the pics will be ok anyway. [[User:Lvklock|Lvklock]] ([[User talk:Lvklock|talk]]) 12:18, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

== [[Grand Union Hotel (Newbury Park, California)]] ==

Hey, Don. I started updating the stub you created on the [[Grand Union Hotel (Newbury Park, California)]], when I realized there was a pre-existing article on the site, using its 20th Century name -- [[Stagecoach Inn (California)]]. As the current usage is Stagecoach Inn, and that article is pre-exisiting in any event, the Grand Union article should probably be converted into a re-direct to [[Stagecoach Inn (California)]]. However, I didn't want to make any change, since you were the original author of the stub. If you agree, you may want to consider changing the Grand Union article into a re-direct.[[User:Cbl62|Cbl62]] ([[User talk:Cbl62|talk]]) 04:55, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

==So that's were that went!==
Hi Dincram. I moved the article page "Doncram/sandbox3" to [[User:Doncram/sandbox3]]. [[User:Suntag|Suntag]] ([[User talk:Suntag|talk]]) 23:29, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

== NRHP infobox tweaking ==

I know this is your area. I have tried to convert the following districts to {{tl|infobox nrhp2}}, but I believe I there is some problem: [[Old Chicago Water Tower District]], [[Pullman District]], [[Prairie Avenue District]], & [[Printing House Row District]]. Also, I am having trouble finding the infobox information for [[Black Metropolis-Bronzeville District]].--[[User:TonyTheTiger|TonyTheTiger]] <small>([[User talk:TonyTheTiger|t]]/[[Special:Contributions/TonyTheTiger|c]]/[[User:TonyTheTiger/Antonio Vernon|bio]]/[[WP:CHICAGO]]/[[WP:LOTM]]) </small> 01:57, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
:Thanks for the explanation of Black Metropolis. As for the other infoboxes, I think they may have one too many headers. I did not know how to add the U.S Reg HD and remove NRHP. They all have both. Some also have landmark district. Not sure if these were all officially district designations or not.--[[User:TonyTheTiger|TonyTheTiger]] <small>([[User talk:TonyTheTiger|t]]/[[Special:Contributions/TonyTheTiger|c]]/[[User:TonyTheTiger/Antonio Vernon|bio]]/[[WP:CHICAGO]]/[[WP:LOTM]]) </small> 04:49, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
::I have no new FA or GA sumbissions planned. My current cue is [[Buddy Fletcher]] and [[Barry Bonds]] for GA and [[WP:CHIFTD]] for FA. I have a court case next week and am finally doing my 2007 taxes this week. I doubt I will get to anything in my cue for the next few weeks. These curiosities arose while trying to find dates for the [[Prairie Avenue]] article while pondering [[WP:TFAR]] possibilities.--[[User:TonyTheTiger|TonyTheTiger]] <small>([[User talk:TonyTheTiger|t]]/[[Special:Contributions/TonyTheTiger|c]]/[[User:TonyTheTiger/Antonio Vernon|bio]]/[[WP:CHICAGO]]/[[WP:LOTM]]) </small> 11:49, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
:::I looked at the site you mentioned and I see both a South Loop Printing House District and a South Dearborn Street--Printing House Row Historic District. What is going on here?--[[User:TonyTheTiger|TonyTheTiger]] <small>([[User talk:TonyTheTiger|t]]/[[Special:Contributions/TonyTheTiger|c]]/[[User:TonyTheTiger/Antonio Vernon|bio]]/[[WP:CHICAGO]]/[[WP:LOTM]]) </small> 21:15, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
:::Is one an extension of the other?--[[User:TonyTheTiger|TonyTheTiger]] <small>([[User talk:TonyTheTiger|t]]/[[Special:Contributions/TonyTheTiger|c]]/[[User:TonyTheTiger/Antonio Vernon|bio]]/[[WP:CHICAGO]]/[[WP:LOTM]]) </small> 21:24, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

== [[Washington State Route 339]] DYK ==

I am fine with the changes you made, thanks :) --[[User:Admrboltz|Admrb♉ltz]] <small>([[User talk:Admrboltz|talk]])</small> 06:15, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

== Silliman Church demolition ==

When I was in Cohoes taking pictures (about five more to come out of that trip), I went to the address, looked at [[:Image:Cohoes, NY, city hall.jpg|city hall]] across the street and figured that must have once been the church. But its pics in the NRHP nom weren't the same building, and when I was preparing the city hall pic for upload I googled on the church and found the site I linked to confirming my fear that it was another one we should border in black.

Yeah, go ahead and create the article (You can use any picture you like, even that one there, since any demolished building cannot be covered by a contemporary free image and the "historic" exception to the image policy comes into play). I won't work too hard on it myself, though ... I really think we should just apply to the NPS to have demolished listings (like Poughkeepsie City Hall) removed outright. It's really misleading to the public. [[User:Daniel Case|Daniel Case]] ([[User talk:Daniel Case|talk]]) 04:43, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

== [[List of Registered Historic Places in Los Angeles County, California]] ==

Hi, Don, {{User|Matthiasb}} left the following note on my talk page: "IMO the Pasadena part should be split off, if you have added all the descriptions the list might be to too long. Anyway, nice work and I am translating this into the German WP. :-)" Several months ago, we had a discussion about splitting Pasadena into a separate list/article, though I think you wanted to wait until the Pasadena part had been more filled out. Unfortunately, not much progress has been made on it, as I've found Pasadena's list so large as to be daunting. I have recently been moving west toward Ventura County, which is more manageable. In any event, I thought I'd pass along Matthiasb's note in case you conclude that the time has come to split Pasadena into a separate list/article. I have no point of view on the timing of the split and defer to your judgment on that.[[User:Cbl62|Cbl62]] ([[User talk:Cbl62|talk]]) 16:27, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
:Thanks, Don. If you get a chance to upload your Ventura pics, that would be great. Time permitting, I was planning another Ventura County trip this weekend and could cross the ones off the list that you've already taken.[[User:Cbl62|Cbl62]] ([[User talk:Cbl62|talk]]) 20:29, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
::I went ahead and added some introductory text to the Pasadena RHP list and nominated as a joint DYK candidate [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Did_you_know&diff=237648080&oldid=237646998 here].[[User:Cbl62|Cbl62]] ([[User talk:Cbl62|talk]]) 04:39, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

== Multiple County NRHP entry ==

I just looked at the entry for the [http://www.oprhp.state.ny.us/hpimaging/hp_view.asp?GroupView=3627 New York Central Adirondack Division Historic District]. It covers six counties (!) Essex, Franklin, Oneida, Hamilton, Herkimer, and St. Lawrence. I believe we show it only in Essex (it was the coords in Hamilton County that made me realize there was something funny going on). Anyway, it looks like we need to create entries in the five counties currently missing, using, I guess, the address and coords for the major RR structure in each county? Have you ever dealt with this sort of thing? -- [[User:Mwanner|Mwanner]] | [[User talk:Mwanner|Talk]] 00:08, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

:Thanks, and yes, I'll add the rows to the other counties and puzzle over the address and coords to use. Cheers! -- [[User:Mwanner|Mwanner]] | [[User talk:Mwanner|Talk]] 00:39, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

::Turns out that it was already in the Oneida list-- apparently they picked up the endpoint counties and missed the four in the middle. I corrected your note at [[wp:NRIS info issues#identified in another county]] accordingly, and I have added the other four table entries. Now I need to fix their descriptions. Thanks again. -- [[User:Mwanner|Mwanner]] | [[User talk:Mwanner|Talk]] 11:52, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

==[[:Sherwood, New York]]==
A tag has been placed on [[:Sherwood, New York]], requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under the [[WP:CSD#Redirects|criteria for speedy deletion]], because it is a redirect to a nonexistent page.

If you can fix this redirect to point to an existing Wikipedia page, please do so and remove the speedy deletion tag. However, please do not remove the speedy deletion tag unless you also fix the redirect. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this.<!-- Template:Redirnone-warn --> [[User:R'n'B|Russ]] [[User talk:R'n'B|(talk)]] 14:12, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

==An old steamboat discussion==
Hey don,

I noticed [[User_talk:Andrew_Jameson#photo_for_Ste._Claire_.28passenger_steamboat.29|this discussion]] from early August. I thought I would add to it, or mention to you that I emailed the NRHP explicit questions about the copyright status of NRHP/NHL photographs and they responded. This was last year sometime. They stated that the copyright of the photographs is NOT public domain (just like you argued) and that it is held by the photographer. I.E. me, if I nominate a property, or you, or Joe Bob Wilson Smith-Jones. And there is very little we can do to make a fair use argument for any property that is extant, unless it is guarded by an armed private security force (in which case I will get the photo, provided Wikipedia furnishes me with an [[AR15|ArmaLite/Colt AR-15]] and a few hand grenades). There is a fair use argument that could be made, even against the Wiki's stringent [[WP:NFCC|non-free content criteria]] for NRHP listings that have been demolished. Just thought I would chime in, and hopefully, in some way, bring a smile to your day. --[[User:IvoShandor|IvoShandor]] ([[User talk:IvoShandor|talk]]) 16:54, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

==[[List of Registered Historic Places in Wisconsin]]==
There's a stray property listed at the end of Wood County that doesn't appear in the Elkman table. I have an educated guess on that one. I was driving in the Wisconsin Rapids area and came across a Wisconsin RHP sign from 1952 that was in very bad shape, and I took pictures of the sign. It was located at a broken and nearly destroyed Centralia Pulp and Paper mill on the Wisconsin River. Centralia was the name of the western half of the city before it merged in the first half of the 1900s. I doubt the property would continue to be listed since it was in really bad shape. Time was short and finding a place to photograph the mill without trespassing looked difficult to impossible. Would you edit the table to reflect a property that was listed and most likely is not listed anymore? '''<font color="#000000">[[User:Royalbroil|Royal]]</font><font color="#FFCC00">[[User talk:Royalbroil|broil]]</font>''' 12:46, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

==MfD nomination of [[Wikipedia:BLAH]]==
[[Wikipedia:BLAH]], a page you substantially contributed to, has been nominated for [[WP:MfD|deletion]]. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at [[Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:BLAH]] and please be sure to [[WP:SIG|sign your comments]] with four tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>). You are free to edit the content of [[Wikipedia:BLAH]] during the discussion but should not remove the miscellany for deletion template from the top of the page; such removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you.<!-- Template:MFDWarning --> [[User:Tikiwont|Tikiwont]] ([[User talk:Tikiwont|talk]]) 13:10, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

== List of Registered Historic Places in Pasadena ==

{| class="messagebox {{#ifeq:|yes|small|standard}}-talk"
|-
|[[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px|Updated DYK query]]
|On [[15 September]], [[2008]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know?]]''' was updated with {{#if:|facts|a fact}} from the article{{#if:|s|}} '''''[[List of Registered Historic Places in Pasadena]]'''''{{#if:|{{#if:|, |, and}} '''''[[{{{4}}}]]'''''
}}{{#if:|{{#if:|, |, and}} '''''[[{{{5}}}]]'''''
}}{{#if:|, and '''''[[{{{6}}}]]'''''}}, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know? talk page]].
|} <!-- [[{{CURRENTMONTHNAME}} {{CURRENTDAY}}]], [[{{CURRENTYEAR}}]] --> --Cheers, [[User:Casliber|Casliber]] ([[User talk:Casliber|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contributions/Casliber|contribs]]) 12:53, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

== Bad coordinates ==

Over and above the numerous coordinates in the NRHP that are radically wrong, I'm troubled by the fact that, for properties I know well enough to know exactly where they are, the coordinates are ''all'' off by between 100 and 200 feet, always to the west, but sometimes due west, sometimes southwest and sometimes northwest. Have you noticed this? Any idea what's going on? There ''are'' different reference grids-- something I don't understand very well, but if NRHP were using one grid and Google Maps were using another, that could introduce a systematic error. But if that were the case, you'd expect the error to be always in precisely the same direction. Any thoughts? -- [[User:Mwanner|Mwanner]] | [[User talk:Mwanner|Talk]] 13:24, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

:Ah, thanks. That's perfect! Between the 911-system-street-number changes and the change in coordinates, we're lucky if we can find anything at all! Ah, well. And while [[User:LeheckaG|LeheckaG]] is doubtless correct that it would be good practice to preserve the old coordinates when correcting them, I'm not sure I'm ready to go there-- I have serious doubts that anyone is going to come along and compare the List coords with the NRHP data, at least not in my little Adirondack counties! Cheers! -- [[User:Mwanner|Mwanner]] | [[User talk:Mwanner|Talk]] 16:38, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

== RPC of Vernon question ==

I was surprised to see that you removed the plaque picture from [[Reformed Presbyterian Church of Vernon]]: not that I'm opposing it, just surprised, as I had assumed that plaques such as this were somewhere or another on all NRHP buildings. How do you know it's not there: have you visited the site? [[User:Nyttend|Nyttend]] ([[User talk:Nyttend|talk]]) 14:53, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

== [[Cooleemee|Cooleemee Plantation]] ==

Hi Don,
After reading quite a bit on Cooleemee, I keep running over the same material...and much of it too anecdotal or non-notable for inclusion in the article. To that end, I'd like to say that you did a good job of presenting what needed to be presented and perhaps even better job for what you decided not to include.

Sidenote: Although the sources talk about "Kulimi" & "Cooleeme" in Alabama, I have yet to find those names or anything that resembles them when looking through the Creek Nation tribes (especially the Upper Creek Nation tribes that fought in the Red Stick War and lost after the Battle of Horseshoe Bend). Keep up the good work. [[User:Berean Hunter|<font face="High Tower Text" size="3px"><b style="color:#00C">⋙–Ber</b><b style="color:#66f">ean–Hun</b><b style="color:#00C">ter—►</b></font>]] ([[User talk:Berean Hunter|<b style="color:#00C">(⊕)</b>]]) 21:38, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

== Military history WikiProject coordinator election ==
The September 2008 [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Coordinators|Military history WikiProject coordinator]] election has begun. We will be selecting nine coordinators to serve for the next six months from a pool of fourteen candidates. Please [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Coordinators/September 2008|vote here]] by September 30!<br /><small>This has been an automated delivery by [[User:BrownBot|BrownBot]] ([[User talk:BrownBot|talk]]) 21:45, 15 September 2008 (UTC)</small>

==Lighthouses redux==
I've been trying, and failing, to find the note in question - you mentioned in a discussion somewhere that you'd never known of a keeper's dwelling that exists without the lighthouse it served. Something to do with the whole "light station" vs. "light" on the NRHP. As it happens, there ''are'' a number of dwellings that survive without lighthouses; most were moved from the station after the light was decomissioned, and were then turned into private residences. Whether or not any of them are on the Register, I don't know; the ones I looked up are not. But they ''do'' exist.

Apologies for the vagueness - it hasn't been my morning, really. --[[User:AlbertHerring]] <sup>[[User_talk:AlbertHerring|Io son l'orecchio e tu la bocca: parla!]]</sup> 14:54, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

*''De nada'' - just thought I'd mention it, as it's been burrowing into the back of my mind all day. --[[User:AlbertHerring]] <sup>[[User_talk:AlbertHerring|Io son l'orecchio e tu la bocca: parla!]]</sup> 16:12, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

== moving nrhp articles discussion ==

There's a discussion about this forming at [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Register of Historic Places#Naming discussion for "List of Registered Historic Places in ..."]] [[User:Dmadeo|dm]] ([[User talk:Dmadeo|talk]]) 02:57, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

== Franklin County ==

Yes, I've been on a roll lately with Franklin (and a bit less with Essex) County-- two more photos and I'll have ''all'' of the Saranac Lake properties covered, which is the bulk of Franklin. Trouble is, after that, the properties are all a bit of a haul for me-- Malone, where the bulk of the remainder are is fifty miles north, so I'm not sure when I'll get up there. And there's one property that can only by reached by canoe and photographed from the water. Meanwhile, I've started adding references for all of the "Summaries". Thanks for the catch on the photo mixup-- it's fixed now. Cheers! -- [[User:Mwanner|Mwanner]] | [[User talk:Mwanner|Talk]] 00:46, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

:I ''do'' like the idea of the column heading footnote-- I was not ''real'' pleased with the idea of adding a note to each and every entry (though I was prepared to bite the bullet). As for individual articles on each property, I have a real problem seeing that happening on the Cure Cottages-- most of the individual nomination forms have a substantial amount of boilerplate, used in each nom-- the amount of useful info for many of the properties is mighty thin, and there is a great deal of similarity in many of them. (Why they didn't use an MPS approach is beyond me.)

:Now, I've noticed that some county lists have town lists pulled out of them-- I'm thinking this might make sense for Saranac Lake, though it's messy since Saranac Lake exists in two counties. But I'm also thinking that using the Cure Cottage article as a basis, one might get rid of the redlinks, and just have the RHP Saranac Lake article cover (most of) the properties once and for all. A handful might support individual articles. Any thoughts? -- [[User:Mwanner|Mwanner]] | [[User talk:Mwanner|Talk]] 01:21, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

== church disambiguation pages ==

Hi, thanks for your message. Everything you've done on St.Paul's Episcopal is fine with me and I hope it will avoid further controversy. Best wishes. [[User:Clariosophic|clariosophic]] ([[User talk:Clariosophic|talk]]) 18:03, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

== Steepletop Farm ==

Don,

I'm going up to Albany again tomorrow, and have planned my route so I can go through Columbia County, detour through Austerlitz and get some photos of [[Steepletop Farm]], one of the last greater Hudson Valley NHLs we don't have a contemporary image of. I also intend to go to the state museum and get a pic of the half of Springside that's up on the fifth floor.

This in addition to RHPs in Kingston, Hudson (some), and Claverack and along the way. Plus maybe some more from downtown Albany.

The NHL pics, should I get them, will be uploaded tomorrow night after I get home. [[User:Daniel Case|Daniel Case]] ([[User talk:Daniel Case|talk]]) 05:48, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

==BS for you==
{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"
|rowspan="2" valign="middle" | [[Image:Original_Barnstar.png|100px]]
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Original Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | A barnstar for Doncram. For all around good editing, and essentially grabbing the NRHP project by the horns and taking it to new and amazing heights. Keep up the good work, thanks for all your contributions. [[User:IvoShandor|IvoShandor]] ([[User talk:IvoShandor|talk]]) 10:22, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
|}

== NRHP project, maybe? ==

How about for the project anniversary, having a drive to get at least two stubs made for every disambig page? To help stop this deletion/move madness. Look how good we did with the NHL push, and it shouldn't take nearly as much time to do the disambigs. If people wanted to stub whole pages, great. But at least two per page would help loads, imho. Just a thought... :) --[[User:Ebyabe|Ebyabe]] ([[User talk:Ebyabe|talk]]) 16:02, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

== [[Strykersville, New York]] ==

Thank you for creating the stub for [[Strykersville, New York]]. Would you be able to find more info/take some pictures?[[User:Zigzig20s|Zigzig20s]] ([[User talk:Zigzig20s|talk]]) 00:07, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

== Google Maps ==

How hard is it do that google map magic? I expect to be in Vermont sometime in the next few weeks, and it would help me see what NHL's I might be able to get if I had one of those handy maps. [[User:Lvklock|Lvklock]] ([[User talk:Lvklock|talk]]) 01:36, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
::Thanks for your timely help with this. I'll be heading up there Sunday or Monday. [[User:Lvklock|Lvklock]] ([[User talk:Lvklock|talk]]) 18:10, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
:::Thanks again. Got two NHLs in VT and a couple NRHPs, as well as a few more NRHPs in NY. [[User:Lvklock|Lvklock]] ([[User talk:Lvklock|talk]]) 01:06, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

== Projects on Talk Pages ==

I actually thought of doing that to all the articles in the project. This would be easy except for the sheer number of articles. I then thought of doing a dual template of sorts if people think that it might be all right. Otherwise i'll try to start doing that. [[user:ktr101|Kevin Rutherford]] ([[User_talk:Ktr101|talk]]) 01:37, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
:I'm coming from the note that you left on the Cape and Islands project talk page.

== Thanks and LAHCM ==

Thanks, Don, for your support on the RFA nomination. Your comments were very kind and are appreciated. I see we've both been working on the LAHCM article in your sandbox. Trying to create a complete list with all 900+ sites may be unrealistic -- at least in the short term. Also, a list with 900 photos would take forever to load on most computers. I was thinking maybe we could try to get it complete through the first 200 or 250 sites and then simply include a link to the complete list. I thought a complete list of 1-250 would look better than a hit-or-miss incomplete list, but what do you think? Also, at what point do you intend to move it into mainspace? [[User:Cbl62|Cbl62]] ([[User talk:Cbl62|talk]]) 04:15, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

== Please stop and discuss ==
(Doncram's comment to [[User:Remember the dot]]'s talk page, copied here by dot:)
You are making many edits to disambiguation pages, while there are discussions open about what practices are correct. For example, in [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Zion_Lutheran_Church&diff=prev&oldid=240540971 this edit], you remove mention of NRHP for two places. There is discussion ongoing at [[Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (disambiguation pages)#Proposed text for MOS explicitly allowing red-links]] and at [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Disambiguation#what is wp:NRHP doing wrong RE disambiguation?]]. You just registered disagreement with my opinion at the first one of those. Since there is disagreement, and since we are discussing it there (and i believe either/both of those are fine places), would you please stop editing contrary to opinions expressed there? If it turns out others agree with you, and some consensus is reached, then it would be different. Specifically, I ask in the latter discussion for dab editors to refrain from deleting red-links to NRHP sites, and I ask for them to refrain from deleting mention of NRHPness of individual sites (which I believe helps to deter other red-link-deleters). Please consider that request addressed to yourself, at least until we can reach some agreement at the suitable talk pages. [[User:Doncram|doncram]] ([[User talk:Doncram|talk]]) 01:35, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

:The NRHP notice was still there, completely visible to editors so that they'll think twice before deleting the red links, but without interfering with helping readers navigate the encyclopedia. My other changes were:
:* Changing "can" to "may" as recommended by [[WP:MOSDAB|MOSDAB]].
:* Removing the "United States" header, which is unnecessary since the list is so short, and which does not follow the <tt><nowiki>In the '''United States''':</nowiki></tt> style advised by [[WP:MOSDAB|MOSDAB]].
:* Changing <tt><nowiki>{{POWdis}}</nowiki></tt> to <tt><nowiki>{{disambig}}</nowiki></tt>, bypassing the redirect to avoid confusion.
:Do you really disagree with every single one of these changes? —[[User:Remember the dot|Remember the dot]] <sup>([[User talk:Remember the dot|talk]])</sup> 02:54, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

::Thanks. No i don't disagree with all. I don't care about "can" vs. "may". At the 2nd discussion linked above, whether to include United States or not is indeed under discussion (I said there i think it is less U.S.-centric to lay out framework that includes it, leaving it obvious that non-US places are welcome). And, there are disambig pages that are mixing in one or two non-US places amidst 10 or more US places, when I think it is better for readers to organize the disambig geographically. About POWdis, I never did really see the reason for having it, so i am not really objecting to replacing it, although i do see some value in it providing a means to find these disambiguation pages (by "what links here" from the template), and I don't see the harm in it. I replaced POWdis by disambig myself in my subsequent edit. Anyhow, i don't see the urgency to change "can" to "may", for example, when there are bigger issues being discussed. If you disagree about the bigger issues, and are editing lots of pages, then it raises questions about what edits you are implementing. In this particular case, i mainly took issue with your edit losing the particular information that each of the listed places is a U.S. NRHP (by deleting the statement at the top that all are NRHPs, although I think it is better for each of them to be identified separately as an NRHP, so that non-NRHPs can be inserted into the list). [[User:Doncram|doncram]] ([[User talk:Doncram#top|talk]]) 03:14, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

== new peer review of [[List of NHLs in NY]] ==

I was just noticing that you had asked for another peer review of this. I don't know how to be critical of the article, both because I don't know what to look for and because I have worked too much on it for much distance. I'll be glad to help however I can with any work required due to the comments, especially anything to do with the descriptions, which I worked a lot on. BTW, did you see my question about Google maps? Just let me know if it's too complicated for you to do or describe to me how to do. [[User:Lvklock|Lvklock]] ([[User talk:Lvklock|talk]]) 01:03, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

:Thanks for the invite. I'll be happy to look at the new peer review of this article, but not real soon, as my availability is almost nonexistent for the next couple of days. --[[User:Orlady|Orlady]] ([[User talk:Orlady|talk]]) 01:35, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

== [[List of Los Angeles Historic-Cultural Monuments in the San Fernando Valley]] ==

I'd be interested in getting your input on the format for the SFV HCM list. Just go ahead and modify if you there's something you think should be changed. I'd like to get it in a suitable format before it goes on DYK on Sunday or Monday. Once we have a format we're comfortable with, we can start rolling out other HCM lists for other sectors of the city. [[User:Cbl62|Cbl62]] ([[User talk:Cbl62|talk]]) 06:30, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

== [[Edward M. Cotter (fireboat)]], and Croaker ==

I didn't know that the Croaker made the list. Thanks for letting me know! [[User:Shinerunner|Shinerunner]] ([[User talk:Shinerunner|talk]]) 11:19, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

== Your reply to PamD re: Disambig ==

Your reply to PamD includes this: "So I would not want it to be optional, not required" I'm sure you mean you would WANT it to be optional, as opposed to NOT want it to be optional. I'm following this with interest, though I have chosen not to get involved. [[User:Lvklock|Lvklock]] ([[User talk:Lvklock|talk]]) 16:44, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
:I'd be willing to add the state specific blue links when you set up a new disambig, if that would help. You MUST be getting frustrated with the discussion of this topic. [[User:Lvklock|Lvklock]] ([[User talk:Lvklock|talk]]) 21:55, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

== Headley - Handley House ==

I am curious to get your thoughts on moving the Headley - Handley house out of the SFV list. My understanding has always been, as yours, that Runyon Canyon is Hollywood, not Studio City. There were a couple other properties like that. However, I had felt compelled to include the Headley House as being on the SFV side because that's how the city Cultural Heritage Commission places it. See [http://cityplanning.lacity.org/complan/HCM/dsp_hcm_result.cfm?community=Sherman%20Oaks%20-%20Studio%20City%20-%20Toluca%20Lake%20-%20Cahuenga%20Pass Studio City list of HCMs, including Headley], and compare to [http://cityplanning.lacity.org/complan/HCM/dsp_hcm_result.cfm?community=Hollywood Hollywood list here], which does not include Headley]. I frankly think you're right and the city is wrong (on this one and at least one other). Do you still think it's correct for us to move Headley off the SFV list? [[User:Cbl62|Cbl62]] ([[User talk:Cbl62|talk]]) 21:18, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
:: I just saw the other work you put into the SFV list. You make some good distinctions. I was unsure how to deal with the 1000s and the 2000s, and I think you have put it just right. Thanks for the help. [[User:Cbl62|Cbl62]] ([[User talk:Cbl62|talk]]) 21:30, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

== [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Takes Manhattan|Wikis Take Manhattan]] rescheduled for October 4 ==

[[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Takes Manhattan|Wikis Take Manhattan]] has been rescheduled for next <u>Saturday, October 4</u>, due to the rain predicted for this weekend.. I hope you can make it to the new time, and bring a friend (or two)!--[[User:Pharos|Pharos]] ([[User talk:Pharos|talk]]) 23:28, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

== Coordinates ==

Don -- Do you know how to import the coordinates for an address? I would like to get the Geo map as complete as time permits before it goes to DYK. If you can show me how to do it, I'll try to do it for most of them. [[User:Cbl62|Cbl62]] ([[User talk:Cbl62|talk]]) 04:55, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
:Thanks for the direction, Don. Google Earth seems to be the easiest to me. [[User:Cbl62|Cbl62]] ([[User talk:Cbl62|talk]]) 05:23, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

==[[Calumet County Parks]]==
I disagree with your rewording in the article. There are only 2 county parks in the entire county, and the other one is near a different city and it rarely called out as a county park. There is no possibility of confusion as to which park has the registered historic archeological district, it has to be the park by Stockbridge. It has Native American mounds at a place with a great view overlooking [[Lake Winnebago]] on the top of the [[Niagara Escarpment]]. I'll get a picture the next time that I visit the park. '''<font color="#000000">[[User:Royalbroil|Royal]]</font><font color="#FFCC00">[[User talk:Royalbroil|broil]]</font>''' 05:41, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Chicago Printing Row Districts ==

I have been having trouble to get the links from Hargis for the two Printing Row Districts in Chicago. When I try to put in Chicago it keeps asking me for the city.--[[User:TonyTheTiger|TonyTheTiger]] <small>([[User talk:TonyTheTiger|t]]/[[Special:Contributions/TonyTheTiger|c]]/[[User:TonyTheTiger/Antonio Vernon|bio]]/[[WP:CHICAGO]]/[[WP:LOTM]]) </small> 15:43, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
:I had been using the By National Register search. With Query Builder I have been able to get to a list of five including South Dearborn Street -- Printing House Row Historic District, Printing House Row District, and South Loop Printing House Historic District. Clicking report for any of those does not yield anything.--[[User:TonyTheTiger|TonyTheTiger]] <small>([[User talk:TonyTheTiger|t]]/[[Special:Contributions/TonyTheTiger|c]]/[[User:TonyTheTiger/Antonio Vernon|bio]]/[[WP:CHICAGO]]/[[WP:LOTM]]) </small> 17:01, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
::Note I get the following error: Server Error in '/HARGIS' Application. The underlying connection was closed: Unable to connect to the remote server.--[[User:TonyTheTiger|TonyTheTiger]] <small>([[User talk:TonyTheTiger|t]]/[[Special:Contributions/TonyTheTiger|c]]/[[User:TonyTheTiger/Antonio Vernon|bio]]/[[WP:CHICAGO]]/[[WP:LOTM]]) </small> 17:05, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

== Talk:NY Route 194 ==

Can you suggest a wording - I am about to edit the template (T:DYK) with a new word in place of victim. But otherwise, I need another wording if you want a change.<FONT FACE="Arial" SIZE="-1" COLOR="red">Mitch</FONT><b>32</b><sup>([[User:Mitchazenia|UP]])</sup> 22:17, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

:Is that better, I just don't want this DYK removed, as it is my 25th and all.<FONT FACE="Arial" SIZE="-1" COLOR="red">Mitch</FONT><b>32</b><sup>([[User:Mitchazenia|UP]])</sup> 22:42, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

== sidewalk clocks and [[List of National Monuments of the United States]] ==


yup, I linked that a long time ago since it seemed crazy to have an article per clock with little to no references beyond that. I thought there was an article, but perhaps not. Sure, I can take a crack at it, but later this week. It's a bit busy here. Anyway, check out the national monuments article. I'm thinking we create something similar for "national historic sites and parks" and use that to pull that table out of the nhl, which would make those critics happy, but still keep the links between the two articles. They are all very much related. Especially with situations like the Grand Canyon np, and the Grand Canyon-Escalante NM, they're adjacent. it's all bureaucracy. [[User:Dmadeo|dm]] ([[User talk:Dmadeo|talk]]) 02:48, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

== sortable dates for [[List of Los Angeles Historic-Cultural Monuments in the San Fernando Valley]] ==

Done --[[User:Sanfranman59|Sanfranman59]] ([[User talk:Sanfranman59|talk]]) 05:28, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

== DYK for Los Angeles Historic-Cultural Monument ==


{| class="messagebox {{#ifeq:|yes|small|standard}}-talk"
|-
|[[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px|Updated DYK query]]
|On [[30 September]], [[2008]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know?]]''' was updated with {{#if:|facts|a fact}} from the article{{#if:|s|}} '''''[[Los Angeles Historic-Cultural Monument]]'''''{{#if:|{{#if:|, |, and}} '''''[[{{{4}}}]]'''''
}}{{#if:|{{#if:|, |, and}} '''''[[{{{5}}}]]'''''
}}{{#if:|, and '''''[[{{{6}}}]]'''''}}, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know? talk page]].
|} <!-- [[{{CURRENTMONTHNAME}} {{CURRENTDAY}}]], [[{{CURRENTYEAR}}]] --> Keep up the good work! [[User:Ruhrfisch|Ruhrfisch]] '''[[User talk:Ruhrfisch|<sub><font color="green">&gt;&lt;&gt;</font></sub><small>&deg;</small><sup><small>&deg;</small></sup>]]''' 14:54, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

== DYK for List of Los Angeles Historic-Cultural Monuments in the San Fernando Valley ==


{| class="messagebox {{#ifeq:|yes|small|standard}}-talk"
|-
|[[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px|Updated DYK query]]
|On [[30 September]], [[2008]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know?]]''' was updated with {{#if:|facts|a fact}} from the article{{#if:|s|}} '''''[[List of Los Angeles Historic-Cultural Monuments in the San Fernando Valley]]'''''{{#if:|{{#if:|, |, and}} '''''[[{{{4}}}]]'''''
}}{{#if:|{{#if:|, |, and}} '''''[[{{{5}}}]]'''''
}}{{#if:|, and '''''[[{{{6}}}]]'''''}}, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know? talk page]].
|} <!-- [[{{CURRENTMONTHNAME}} {{CURRENTDAY}}]], [[{{CURRENTYEAR}}]] --> Congrats on the double DYK! [[User:Ruhrfisch|Ruhrfisch]] '''[[User talk:Ruhrfisch|<sub><font color="green">&gt;&lt;&gt;</font></sub><small>&deg;</small><sup><small>&deg;</small></sup>]]''' 14:57, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
::Don -- Thought you'd be interested to know that our San Fernando Valley HCM hook got 13,700 page views today. See [http://stats.grok.se/en/200809/List_of_Los_Angeles_Historic-Cultural_Monuments_in_the_San_Fernando_Valley]. Not bad! [[User:Cbl62|Cbl62]] ([[User talk:Cbl62|talk]]) 06:01, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

==DAB pages==
With all due respect, I fear that you have let some of the "logic" of the DAB Project participants seep into your brain. I can't make any sense out of the sorting of items on [[Lewis House]] and [[Old Jail]]. Of course, it is more important that the items be listed than that they be listed in a sensible order, so... --[[User:Orlady|Orlady]] ([[User talk:Orlady|talk]]) 15:07, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

== Thanks ==

[[Image:WikiThanks.png]] Thanks Don, I just did the notices, but have hopefully fixed it. I will make some comments on the NHL in NYS list PR too - sorry to see it did not make FL. Have to run, [[User:Ruhrfisch|Ruhrfisch]] '''[[User talk:Ruhrfisch|<sub><font color="green">&gt;&lt;&gt;</font></sub><small>&deg;</small><sup><small>&deg;</small></sup>]]''' 17:53, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

== Re: mistake in NRHP list naming ==

Whoops, I misread the proposal. Sorry. &ndash;[[User:Juliancolton|Juliancolton]] [[User talk:Juliancolton|<font color="#66666"><sup>'''T'''ropical</sup></font>]] [[Special:contributions/Juliancolton|<font color="#66666"><sup>'''C'''yclone</sup></font>]] 16:11, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
:Will do, thanks for letting me know. Again, please excuse my messing up. I'm not too familiar with the NRHP. &ndash;[[User:Juliancolton|Juliancolton]] [[User talk:Juliancolton|<font color="#66666"><sup>'''T'''ropical</sup></font>]] [[Special:contributions/Juliancolton|<font color="#66666"><sup>'''C'''yclone</sup></font>]] 16:19, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

== Move edit summaries ==

As I think we discussed during those threads, consensus does not mean it was necessarily unanimous ... I think that's understood in the word itself. That edit summary was meant to justify it to anyone outside the project reviewing the move logs, not rub it in anyone's face. When we delete articles after AfDs where there was some minority for keeping (or take the AfD tag off articles that were closed as keeps), nobody puts anything in the deletion log or the edit summary about how it wasn't a unanimous decision.

If you want, I'll try to at least include a section link to the actual discussion. [[User:Daniel Case|Daniel Case]] ([[User talk:Daniel Case|talk]]) 16:46, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

BTW, I have been active lately on the photo front. I went hiking with my son up [[Balsam Lake Mountain]] and got some pics of the fire tower, and also places in the Catskills on the way there in Ulster, Sullivan and Delaware counties ([[Pine Hill, New York|Pine Hill]] probably has the two shortest bridges listed on the Register ... you'll have to see the pictures.

Coming up in articles will be one more of the older pics (Wynkoop House) that I'm doing so I can clear stuff from before this year off my hard drive (it's getting full), then we'll be back in Dutchess County for most of the New Hamburg and Chelsea listings (I'm not sure many of the former will have much in the way of DYK possibilities, but we need them). Then it'll be a lot of downtown Troy stuff from that day in late June. [[User:Daniel Case|Daniel Case]] ([[User talk:Daniel Case|talk]]) 16:52, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

== Meridian, MS Historic Districts ==

If you remember, there was a big fuss about the exact boundaries of the registered historic districts in Meridian, MS.. well I was just searching around on the city's website, and I found that they've added a link to a pdf that contains the exact boundaries. [[:Image:Meridian, MS Historic Districts.PNG]] has been updated accordingly and appears on the [[Meridian, MS]] page as well; thought you'd like to know! --[[User:Dudemanfellabra|Dudemanfellabra]] ([[User talk:Dudemanfellabra|talk]]) 21:19, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

== National Register of Historic Places listings in Nevada ==

You may want to look at [[MOS:UNLINKYEARS‎]]. Seems that you should not be linking dates in tables like this. [[User:Vegaswikian|Vegaswikian]] ([[User talk:Vegaswikian|talk]]) 21:29, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
:Yes it would be an improvement and looks good. I assume that you are aware of this statement concerning dst2. ''The template {{tl|dts2}} is deprecated. Please use {{tl|dts}} instead.'' I believe that if you did that switch, the date links would display in the normal US format and if you set link=off the date would not be linked. [[User:Vegaswikian|Vegaswikian]] ([[User talk:Vegaswikian|talk]]) 02:13, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

== In praise of your excellent work ==

Hello! I was doing New Page Patrol and I saw your article on the [[Halbrook Hotel]]. That was very nice. Then I checked out your recent contributions -- wow, you are doing wonderful work! I know that your User Page mentions that you are an under-the-radar editor, so please excuse me if I put a spotlight on you with this token of my appreciation:

{| style="border: 1px solid {{{border|gray}}}; background-color: {{{color|#BA55D3}}};"
|rowspan="2" valign="middle" | [[Image:Purple Star.png|100px]]
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Purple Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | Because like this barnstar, your work stands out with exceptional vibrancy! [[User:Ecoleetage|Ecoleetage]] ([[User talk:Ecoleetage|talk]]) 15:48, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
|}

Job well done! [[User:Ecoleetage|Ecoleetage]] ([[User talk:Ecoleetage|talk]]) 15:48, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
::Well, you do great work! [[User:Ecoleetage|Ecoleetage]] ([[User talk:Ecoleetage|talk]]) 19:20, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

== List of Los Angeles Historic-Cultural Monuments in the Harbor area ==

Hey, Don. The Harbor HCM article goes on the main page later this afternoon. The only missing HCM photo is Timm's Landing, which you mentioned you had a picture of. If you have a chance to load it this morning, we'll have pics of them all for the main page. Cheers. [[User:Cbl62|Cbl62]] ([[User talk:Cbl62|talk]]) 16:34, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

== The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXXI (September 2008) ==
The '''[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Outreach/Newsletter September 2008|September 2008 issue]]''' of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.<br /><small>This has been an automated delivery by [[User:BrownBot|BrownBot]] ([[User talk:BrownBot|talk]]) 22:21, 6 October 2008 (UTC)</small>

== DYK for List of Los Angeles Historic-Cultural Monuments in the Harbor area ==


{| class="messagebox {{#ifeq:|yes|small|standard}}-talk"
|-
|[[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px|Updated DYK query]]
|On [[6 October]], [[2008]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know?]]''' was updated with {{#if:|facts|a fact}} from the article{{#if:|s|}} '''''[[List of Los Angeles Historic-Cultural Monuments in the Harbor area]]'''''{{#if:|{{#if:|, |, and}} '''''[[{{{4}}}]]'''''
}}{{#if:|{{#if:|, |, and}} '''''[[{{{5}}}]]'''''
}}{{#if:|, and '''''[[{{{6}}}]]'''''}}, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know? talk page]].
|} <!-- [[{{CURRENTMONTHNAME}} {{CURRENTDAY}}]], [[{{CURRENTYEAR}}]] --> Cheers, [[User:Casliber|Casliber]] ([[User talk:Casliber|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contributions/Casliber|contribs]]) 22:26, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

== DYK for Powder Magazine (Camp Drum) ==


{| class="messagebox {{#ifeq:|yes|small|standard}}-talk"
|-
|[[Image:Updated DYK query.svg|15px|Updated DYK query]]
|On [[6 October]], [[2008]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know?]]''' was updated with {{#if:|facts|a fact}} from the article{{#if:|s|}} '''''[[Powder Magazine (Camp Drum)]]'''''{{#if:|{{#if:|, |, and}} '''''[[{{{4}}}]]'''''
}}{{#if:|{{#if:|, |, and}} '''''[[{{{5}}}]]'''''
}}{{#if:|, and '''''[[{{{6}}}]]'''''}}, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know? talk page]].
|} <!-- [[{{CURRENTMONTHNAME}} {{CURRENTDAY}}]], [[{{CURRENTYEAR}}]] --> Cheers, [[User:Casliber|Casliber]] ([[User talk:Casliber|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contributions/Casliber|contribs]]) 22:28, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

==Your comment on my talk page==
Hi. This is to let you know that I replied to you on my talk page, rather than splitting my reply off from your comment by posting here. --[[User:Orlady|Orlady]] ([[User talk:Orlady|talk]]) 20:56, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

==[[:Guy E. Beatty, Jr.]]==
[[Image:Copyright-problem.svg|left|40px]]
This is an automated message from [[User:CorenSearchBot|CorenSearchBot]]. I have performed a web search with the contents of [[:Guy E. Beatty, Jr.]], and it appears to include a substantial copy of http://cofc.edu/newscenter/storyDetail.html?id=873. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions will be deleted. You may use external websites as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences.

This message was placed automatically, and it is possible that the bot is confused and found similarity where none actually exists. If that is the case, you can remove the tag from the article and it would be appreciated if you could drop a note on [[User talk:Coren|the maintainer's talk page]]. [[User:CorenSearchBot|CorenSearchBot]] ([[User talk:CorenSearchBot|talk]]) 20:18, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
==Scribner Building(s)==
Hi Doncram:
First off I want to than you for everything you've done on the National Register stuff. It's probably the most fun I've had with Wikipedia -- especially after discovering the nifty google mashups. It's a great way to take a hike after work. Unfortunately light is dwindling. Anyway, I think there might be an omission on the 14th to 59th Manhattan list. There are two Scribner buildings on Fifth Avenue that appear on the New York application list http://www.oprhp.state.ny.us/hpimaging/default.asp One if the one at 155 Fifth Avenue that is listed.(90NR00699). The other is the more famous Charles Scribner and Sons (94NR00530) at 597 Fifth Avenue. I can't find it listed on the usual NHS sites but it's definitely on the NY list. After discovering your work I feel like I'm visiting NY for the first time. Thanks. [[User:Americasroof|Americasroof]] ([[User talk:Americasroof|talk]]) 01:28, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

== Emmanuel Episcopal Church ==

There's an item on the [[List of Registered Historic Places in Chemung County, New York]] that's been listed for a long time (since 1987) but I can't find output for it in the Elkman generator. I know it's still there, I took its picture last month. Have you encountered this before? [[User:Lvklock|Lvklock]] ([[User talk:Lvklock|talk]]) 16:02, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
: If an item doesn't pull up by name on Elkman, which this one doesn't, try checking by city, where you'll find this one. [[User:Clariosophic|clariosophic]] ([[User talk:Clariosophic|talk]]) 18:46, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
::Oh, now i see. It is one of those mis-named in NRIS as "Epsicopal", rather than "Episcopal". Got it listed already at [[wp:NRIS info issues]]. The Elkman NRHP generator has it under the incorrect spelling too, but its an NRIS error not Elkman's fault. Hey, i don't see how to search by city in the Elkman generator, at least not at [http://www2.elkman.net/nrhp/infobox.php http://www2.elkman.net/nrhp/infobox.php]. Clario, did you mean checking on it in an NRIS search site instead? [[User:Doncram|doncram]] ([[User talk:Doncram#top|talk]]) 19:23, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:::Thank you, both. I swear I searched by Emmanuel alone yesterday and it didn't come up. Must be user error. :) [[User:Lvklock|Lvklock]] ([[User talk:Lvklock|talk]]) 19:39, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:::: Elkman's expanded tool list is at [http://www2.elkman.net/nrhp/ National Register Tools]
:::: I've found this other times where the name doesn't pull up for some reason. [[User:Clariosophic|clariosophic]] ([[User talk:Clariosophic|talk]]) 20:03, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

== Courthouse ==

Thanks for the note. I'd prefer not to use the helper thing, at least for the time being, because I want to expand it a little more than the basic box: for example, I'd rather avoid errors (not that you necessarily knew that it was wrong) such as listing Logan County at "Public Square", and I want to include the nationalregisterofhistoricplaces.com link in the infobox. I may well consider it in the future, however. [[User:Nyttend|Nyttend]] ([[User talk:Nyttend|talk]]) 16:03, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Thanks for the explanation; perhaps I will use it more readily :-) I'm curious: what do you mean about the "Ohio Courthouses book you seem to have"? I don't have such a book, so I don't know what I put down that sounds like I have such a thing. Sorry to have confused you... [[User:Nyttend|Nyttend]] ([[User talk:Nyttend|talk]]) 16:31, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
::Thanks for the note: nothing against what you're doing, but I undid the change; as I've noted on the template talk page, all six counties that you changed have a similarly-named county elsewhere in the USA (for example, [[Medina County, Texas]] and [[Erie County, Pennsylvania]]), so it's likely that the Ohio courthouses aren't the only ones of those names. Of course, this template is related to NRHP, since so many are on the Register; but if a template like this were made for all states, there would be potential confusion. For example, if someone created an article on the non-NRHP courthouse in [[Williston, North Dakota]], we'd have confusion between that one and the NRHP courthouse in [[Bryan, Ohio]]. [[User:Nyttend|Nyttend]] ([[User talk:Nyttend|talk]]) 13:11, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
:::Somewhat off topic: having noticed that Stepshep created an article on the [[Hardin County Courthouse (Ohio)|Hardin County Courthouse]], I added the picture that I took of the building yesterday, only to discover that it made the pushpin map disappear. I remember that you modified the infobox either for the Logan County Courthouse or for Court Avenue to make it display both; could you do the same here? [[User:Nyttend|Nyttend]] ([[User talk:Nyttend|talk]]) 00:52, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
:::Never mind, Stepshep just did it. Thanks for all your help with these courthouses! [[User:Nyttend|Nyttend]] ([[User talk:Nyttend|talk]]) 01:14, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

==Thomas Paine cottage==
My sincere apologies for disparaging your contribution in my editing of this article. I was focused on vacuuming up garbage (and possible garbage) added by some of the myriad sockpuppets of banned user whose contributions too often are truly bogus. The NRHP write-up about that house clearly says it's a saltbox; the Greek Revival part is just an added element. I've revised the article to make both aspects clear. For the record, [http://www.thomaspainecottage.org/images/cottage.jpg this image] is one of several I've seen that clearly show it to be a saltbox. --[[User:Orlady|Orlady]] ([[User talk:Orlady|talk]]) 19:12, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Hi. Thanks for your contributions to the article on Paines cottage. I would hope that you might re-visit the article to make sure that your edits were not aggressively changed or reverted by a previous user [Orlady]. She has been attributing all edits made to this article (and nmany others from the New Rochelle community) as being the work of a sockpuppet, and has eagerly been using the 'Banned User' rationale to question and revert accurate, well sourced information under the guise that it is 'bogus'. Thank You. {{unsigned|69.86.225.195|04:37, 11 October 2008 (UTC)}}

== South LA HCMs ==

Getting edit conflicts. Can you hold off a bit until I finish uploading photos? [[User:Cbl62|Cbl62]] ([[User talk:Cbl62|talk]]) 22:04, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
:: I think I'm finally done with the article. I submitted the following DYK hook as a joint submission:<br>
[[Image:Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum (Entrance).JPG|right|100x100px]]
* ... that the '''[[List of Los Angeles Historic-Cultural Monuments in South Los Angeles|Historic-Cultural Monuments in South Los Angeles]]''' include [[Ray Charles]]' recording studio, a stadium that hosted two summer Olympics ''(pictured)'', and the early home of the Oscar ceremonies?
:If you can think of a catchier one to attract attention, give it a shot. Cheers. [[User:Cbl62|Cbl62]] ([[User talk:Cbl62|talk]]) 03:25, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

== Help at Ohio ==

Hi there, about 3 months ago I [[Talk:National Register of Historic Places listings in Ohio|listed these]] new RHPs for addition to the tables. I can't figure out how to make it work without the info like coords. Could you point me in th right direction, for getting the information in? Thanks. <font color="green" face="Comic Sans MS">[[User:Stepshep|§hep]]</font> • <font color="green" face="Comic Sans MS">[[User talk:Stepshep|¡Talk to me!]]</font> 03:48, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
:Missed that Cuyahoga had a sublist. To be honest that was the only one I checked, so they're probably all there. I double checked what you said and it looks okay in FF, but not in my regualr browser which is IE8. It's probably one of my odd settings screwing with the way things look then... Thanks for the very fast and thorough response. <font color="green" face="Comic Sans MS">[[User:Stepshep|§hep]]</font> • <font color="green" face="Comic Sans MS">[[User talk:Stepshep|¡Talk to me!]]</font> 04:10, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

==Confused==
Where's the [[Wikipedia:Etiquette|Wikipedia etiquette]] protocol that says you can post a requested move at [[Wikipedia:Requested moves]], invite discussion, then make the move yourself on the basis of lack of consensus? The naming of [[William Aiken House and associated railroad structures]] or [[William Aiken House and Associated Railroad Structures]] is hardly an earthshaking matter, and I'm not going to touch the title at this point. However, it's confusing to see your request listed in a backlog at [[Wikipedia:Requested moves]] when you've already closed it unilaterally, and your action seems disrespectful of the people who expressed their conflicting views at [[Talk:William Aiken House and Associated Railroad Structures]]. I would have preferred for a third party to make the decision there. --[[User:Orlady|Orlady]] ([[User talk:Orlady|talk]]) 17:19, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

:Yes it is unusual, and perhaps it was not the right solution. I didn't really know what to do. It does goes against my wish to demonstrate to you that the requested move process could be helpful. But in my view, the discussion there had bogged down, had perhaps died out, and the right conclusion was obvious. In fact I feel some embarrassment at having opened the requested move, and especially at having non-NRHP outsiders come and observe. Honestly, after the additional research of searching google for other usage of the lower-cased name had been done, and after it was very well established that the capitalized name is the official and seemingly only name, it seems to me that further opposition is not justified on any legitimate grounds. What remained was only for you and others to concede, hopefully graciously, but I was afraid that was not forthcoming. I am concerned that you and others might feel you could not, due to reasons of your own which are unstated but are not directly related to the issues of the article name itself. As Ivoshandor's postings conveyed it is possible for one to effectively concede on all the informational matters yet nonetheless oppose (ergo, the opposition must be for other reasons). I considered attempting to close the discussion as the lesser of two evils. Definitely, it would have been better if others participating would make some concessions, and look for points that you can agree with, instead of stating a position and not updating, despite discussion and new information (like the google search results). Given what has been clarified, do you honestly oppose the rename? [[User:Doncram|doncram]] ([[User talk:Doncram#top|talk]]) 17:46, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

::Thanks for your thoughtful reply. Actually, it appears to me that the association of the house and the railroad structures in that particular historic district is a "forced marriage" related to the fact that all of the property belonged at one time to the [[Southern Railway (U.S.)|Southern Railway]], which had been using the house as an office building.[http://www.williamaikenhouse.com/cms_pages/history.php] I think that far more valuable articles would be written if there were one article about the house (e.g., history and architectural aspects) and a discussion about the railroad structures as part of an article about the history of the railroad. Both articles could include infoboxes about the NHL historic district, but the historic district would not need to be the subject of a stand-alone article. Furthermore, I still believe that "associated railroad structures" is not part of a proper name, but I have better things to do than continue arguing. --[[User:Orlady|Orlady]] ([[User talk:Orlady|talk]]) 19:55, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Revision as of 22:52, 13 October 2008

Template:Geological era The Paleozoic or Palaeozoic Era (from the Greek CODYS GAY is the earliest of three geologic eras of the Phanerozoic eon. The Paleozoic spanned from roughly 542 to 251 million years ago (ICS, 2004), and is subdivided into six geologic periods; from oldest to youngest they are: the Cambrian, Ordovician, Silurian, Devonian, Carboniferous, and Permian.

Paleozoic life

Trilobites flourished throughout the lower Paleozoic era until becoming extinct in the Permian period

The Paleozoic covers the time from the first appearance of abundant, soft-shelled fossils to the time when the continents were beginning to be dominated by large, relatively sophisticated reptiles and relatively modern plants. The lower (oldest) boundary was classically set at the first appearance of creatures known as trilobites and archeocyathids. The upper (youngest) boundary is set at a major extinction event 300 million years later, known as the Permian extinction. Modern practice sets the older boundary at the first appearance of a distinctive trace fossil called Trichophycus pedum.

At the start of the era, all life was confined to bacteria, algae, sponges and a variety of somewhat enigmatic forms known collectively as the Ediacaran fauna. A large number of body plans appeared nearly simultaneously at the start of the era -- a phenomenon known as the Cambrian Explosion. There is some evidence that simple life may already have invaded the land at the start of the Paleozoic, but substantial plants and animals did not take to the land until the Silurian and did not thrive until the Devonian. Although primitive vertebrates are known near the start of the Paleozoic, animal forms were dominated by invertebrates until the mid-Paleozoic. Fish populations exploded in the Devonian. During the late Paleozoic, great forests of primitive plants thrived on land forming the great coal beds of Europe and eastern North America. By the end of the era, the first large, sophisticated reptiles and the first modern plants (conifers) had developed.

Tectonics

Geologically, the Paleozoic starts shortly after the breakup of a supercontinent called Pannotia and at the end of a global ice age. (See Varanger glaciation and Snowball Earth). Throughout the early Paleozoic, the Earth's landmass was broken up into a substantial number of relatively small continents. Toward the end of the era, the continents gathered together into a supercontinent called Pangaea, which included most of the Earth's land area.

Climate

The Early Cambrian climate was probably moderate at first, becoming warmer over the course of the Cambrian, as the second-greatest sustained sea level rise in the Phanerozoic got underway. However, as if to offset this trend, Gondwana moved south with considerable speed, so that, in Ordovician time, Most of West Gondwana (Africa and South America) lay directly over the South Pole. The Early Paleozoic climate was also strongly zonal, with the result that the "climate", in an abstract sense became warmer, but the living space of most organisms of the time -- the continental shelf marine environment -- became steadily colder. However, Baltica (Northern Europe and Russia) and Laurentia (eastern North America and Greenland) remained in the tropical zone, while China and Australia lay in waters which were at least temperate. The Early Paleozoic ended, rather abruptly, with the short, but apparently severe, Late Ordovician Ice Age. This cold spell caused the second-greatest mass extinction of Phanerozoic time. Over time, the warmer weather moved into the Paleozoic era.

The Middle Paleozoic was a time of considerable stability. Sea levels had dropped coincident with the Ice Age, but slowly recovered over the course of the Silurian and Devonian. The slow merger of Baltica and Laurentia, and the northward movement of bits and pieces of Gondwana created numerous new regions of relatively warm, shallow sea floor. As plants took hold on the continental margins, oxygen levels increased and carbon dioxide dropped, although much less dramatically. The north-south temperature gradient also seems to have moderated, or metazoan life simply became hardier, or both. At any event, the far southern continental margins of Antarctica and West Gondwana became increasingly less barren. The Devonian ended with a series of turnover pulses which killed off much of Middle Paleozoic vertebrate life, without noticeably reducing species diversity overall.

The Late Paleozoic was a time which has left us a good many unanswered questions. The Mississippian epoch began with a spike in atmospheric oxygen, while carbon dioxide plummeted to unheard-of lows. This destabilized the climate and led to one, and perhaps two, ice ages during the Carboniferous. These were far more severe than the brief Late Ordovician Ice; but, this time, the effects on world biota were inconsequential. By the Cisuralian, both oxygen and carbon dioxide had recovered to more normal levels. On the other hand, the assembly of Pangea created huge arid inland areas subject to temperature extremes. The Lopingian is associated with falling sea levels, increased carbon dioxide and general climatic deterioration, culminating in the devastation of the Permian extinction.

See also

References and further reading

  • British Palaeozoic Fossils, 1975, The Natural History Museum, London.
  • "International Commission on Stratigraphy (ICS)". Home Page. {{cite web}}: Unknown parameter |accessmonthday= ignored (help); Unknown parameter |accessyear= ignored (|access-date= suggested) (help)

Template:Phanerozoic Footer