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Untitled[edit]

I think Plutus the play should be moved back to Plutus (play). I'll take care of it soon if there are no objections. - Ravenous 18:33, 31 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I would like to know about symbols of Plutus.

Where is actual information of Plutus?! You guys need to do a better job. BETCHES! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 161.97.198.56 (talk) 18:17, 4 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Merger proposal[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

The result was no merge. -- FordPrefect42 (talk) 08:49, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Absolutely not merge![edit]

Plutus is a Romanization of Ploutos, a greek god of harvest riches. Pluto is the Roman god over underworld. Said: Rursus ☻ 09:02, 23 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This article would be better under the title Ploutos. But that would take an administrator, and they're all busy... --Wetman (talk) 09:15, 23 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No merge, Plutus and Pluto are clearly different deities. --FordPrefect42 (talk) 08:42, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Removed Hades and Persephone as parents[edit]

I've removed the following from the lead as needing qualification and context:

He was either the son of Demeter ^[1] and Iasion, with whom she lay in a thrice-ploughed field, or the child of Hades and Persephone.^[2]

^ Karl Kerenyi, "We are not surprised to learn that the fruit of her love was Ploutos, "riches". What else could have sprung from the willingness of the grain goddess? (Eleusis: Archetypal Image of Mother and Daughter (Bollingen) 1967, p 30).
^ The Road to Eleusis: Unveiling the Secret of the Mysteries By R. Gordon Wasson, Albert Hofmann, Carl A. P. Ruck, Chapter 6 pg. 117-118: It was the Queen of Death, both Persephone and Hecate, who were Brimo, triumphing over the chthonic experience of womanhood by bearing a son to the Lord of Death and thereby changing the destroyer into her own and mankind's saviour. His name was Brimos, but he had other names. In the Homeric Hymn he is called Ploutos (Plutus), the wealth that the vision at Eleusis assured for the initiates as their house guest, for so familiar did death become that his friendly presence maintained a constant prosperity stemming from the healthy accord between life and it's sources in death.

And I've replaced it with the orginal:

He was the son of Demeter^[1] and Iasion, with whom she lay in a thrice-ploughed field.

The bald statement that Plutus was the son of "either the son of Demeter and Iasion, ... or the child of Hades and Persephone" is problematic. It mentions a parentage that (as far as I can tell) is never given for Plutus directly, but only indirectly via a supposed identification of Plutus with Brimos (who is more usually identified with Iacchus).

And, as written, gives undo weight to, a at best rarely mentioned parentage. For example, the only parents given in the several secondary sources I've checked so far, are Demeter and Iasion. While this obscure parentage might be worth a mention somewhere in the article, along with the appropriate qualification and context, it does not belong here, and in this way.

^ Karl Kerenyi, "We are not surprised to learn that the fruit of her love was Ploutos, "riches". What else could have sprung from the willingness of the grain goddess? (Eleusis: Archetypal Image of Mother and Daughter (Bollingen) 1967, p 30).

Plutus is an Underworld Resident[edit]

I was hoping that Plutus could be added to the "Residents" section of the Greek underworld Template. Seeing as he is believed to be a son of Hades it only makes sense that he was probably born in the Underworld, or at the very least spent some time there.

(161.29.246.205 (talk) 07:35, 24 November 2020 (UTC))[reply]

[1] Karl Kerenyi, "We are not surprised to learn that the fruit of her love was Ploutos, "riches". What else could have sprung from the willingness of the grain goddess? (Eleusis: Archetypal Image of Mother and Daughter (Bollingen) 1967, p 30).

[2] The Road to Eleusis: Unveiling the Secret of the Mysteries By R. Gordon Wasson, Albert Hofmann, Carl A. P. Ruck, Chapter 6 pg. 117-118: It was the Queen of Death, both Persephone and Hecate, who were Brimo, triumphing over the chthonic experience of womanhood by bearing a son to the Lord of Death and thereby changing the destroyer into her own and mankind's saviour. His name was Brimos, but he had other names. In the Homeric Hymn he is called Ploutos (Plutus), the wealth that the vision at Eleusis assured for the initiates as their house guest, for so familiar did death become that his friendly presence maintained a constant prosperity stemming from the healthy accord between life and it's sources in death.

[3] Karl Kerenyi, "We are not surprised to learn that the fruit of her love was Ploutos, "riches". What else could have sprung from the willingness of the grain goddess? (Eleusis: Archetypal Image of Mother and Daughter (Bollingen) 1967, p 30).

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+==Untitled==
 I think ''Plutus'' the play should be moved back to [[Plutus (play)]]. I'll take care of it soon if there are no objections. - [[User:Ravenous|Ravenous]] 18:33, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
 I would like to know about symbols of Plutus.
-Where is actual information of ''Plutus''?! You guys need to do a better job. BETCHES!
+Where is actual information of ''Plutus''?! You guys need to do a better job. BETCHES!  <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/161.97.198.56|161.97.198.56]] ([[User talk:161.97.198.56|talk]]) 18:17, 4 October 2007 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
+== Merger proposal ==
+{{Discussion top}}
+The result was '''no merge'''. -- [[User:FordPrefect42|FordPrefect42]] ([[User talk:FordPrefect42|talk]]) 08:49, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
+===Absolutely {{red|not}} merge!===
+Plutus is a Romanization of Ploutos, a greek god of harvest riches. Pluto is the Roman god over underworld. <span style="color: #800000; background-color: #FFFFA0; padding: 1px 2px 3px 2px">''Said: [[User:Rursus|Rursus]] [[User talk:Rursus|☻]]''</span> 09:02, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
+:This article would be better under the title [[Ploutos]]. But that would take an administrator, and they're all busy... --[[User:Wetman|Wetman]] ([[User talk:Wetman|talk]]) 09:15, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
+'''No merge''', Plutus and [[Pluto (mythology)|Pluto]] are clearly different deities. --[[User:FordPrefect42|FordPrefect42]] ([[User talk:FordPrefect42|talk]]) 08:42, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
+{{Discussion bottom}}
+==Removed Hades and Persephone as parents==
+I've removed the following from the lead as needing qualification and context:
+:He was either the son of [[Demeter]] <ref>[[Karl Kerenyi]], "We are not surprised to learn that the fruit of her love was Ploutos, "riches". What else could have sprung from the willingness of the grain goddess? (''Eleusis: Archetypal Image of Mother and Daughter'' (Bollingen) 1967, p 30).</ref> and [[Iasion]], with whom she lay in a thrice-ploughed field, or the child of [[Hades]] and [[Persephone]].<ref>The Road to Eleusis: Unveiling the Secret of the Mysteries
+By R. Gordon Wasson, Albert Hofmann, Carl A. P. Ruck, Chapter 6 pg. 117-118: It was the Queen of Death, both Persephone and Hecate, who were Brimo, triumphing over the chthonic experience of womanhood by bearing a son to the Lord of Death and thereby changing the destroyer into her own and mankind's saviour. His name was Brimos, but he had other names. In the Homeric Hymn he is called Ploutos (Plutus), the wealth that the vision at Eleusis assured for the initiates as their house guest, for so familiar did death become that his friendly presence maintained a constant prosperity stemming from the healthy accord between life and it's sources in death.</ref>
+{{reflist}}
+And I've replaced it with the orginal:
+:He was the son of [[Demeter]]<ref>[[Karl Kerenyi]], "We are not surprised to learn that the fruit of her love was Ploutos, "riches". What else could have sprung from the willingness of the grain goddess? (''Eleusis: Archetypal Image of Mother and Daughter'' (Bollingen) 1967, p 30).</ref> and [[Iasion]], with whom she lay in a thrice-ploughed field.
+The bald statement that Plutus was the son of "either the son of Demeter and Iasion, ... or the child of Hades and Persephone" is problematic. It mentions a parentage that (as far as I can tell) is never given for Plutus directly, but only indirectly via a supposed identification of Plutus with [[Brimos]] (who is more usually identified with [[Iacchus]]).
+And, as written, gives undo weight to, a at best rarely mentioned parentage. For example, the only parents given in the several secondary sources I've checked so far, are Demeter and Iasion. While this obscure parentage might be worth a mention somewhere in the article, along with the appropriate qualification and context, it does not belong here, and in this way.
+{{reflist}}
+== Plutus is an Underworld Resident ==
+I was hoping that Plutus could be added to the "Residents" section of the Greek underworld Template. Seeing as he is believed to be a son of Hades it only makes sense that he was probably born in the Underworld, or at the very least spent some time there.
+([[Special:Contributions/161.29.246.205|161.29.246.205]] ([[User talk:161.29.246.205|talk]]) 07:35, 24 November 2020 (UTC))