Talk:Chinese New Year

Chinese New Year is not observed in non-Chinese civilizations

Please provide evidence that Chinese New Year is observed in non-Chinese civilizations in East Asia. Its observance by overseas Chinese don't count.

Please provide evidence that Chinese New Year is public holiday in Japan, Korea, Vietnam. —Preceding unsigned comment added by VeryGoodBoy (talk • contribs) 22:35, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Please do not mark the whole article as having problems just because you don't think the holiday is "observed" (whatever that exactly means?) in 3 countries. The overseas celebration should count. Maybe what you are looking for is an equivalent to something such as Christmas worldwide. Benjwong (talk) 00:06, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

There is Lunar New Year. This article says Chinese New Year is celebrated in Korea, Japan, Vietnam. It also says Chinese New Year is public holiday in those countries. Then what happened to Korean New Year, Vietnamese New Year, Japanese New Year? Are they no longer celebrated and no longer a public holiday in those countries? VeryGoodBoy (talk) 00:48, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

According to evidence provided by Angelo_De_La_Paz, Chinese New Year is celebrated in China, Southeast Asia, and Chinese communities worldwide. For other countries, Lunar New Year or New Year is used.

The Spring Festival is China's major traditional holiday, and is also celebrated in other parts of Southeast Asia, including Vietnam (where New Year's Day is called "Tet"), Malaysia, Taiwan, and of course, Hong Kong.[1]

Millions across Asia have begun celebrating the Chinese New Year - the biggest holiday for Chinese communities worldwide.[2]

Elsewhere in the region, the New Year period is also significant. Malaysia's capital Kuala Lumpur has been lit by lanterns and banners festooning buildings, despite the fact the Chinese only make up 30% of the population. In Vietnam, the New Year festival is also celebrated in style.[3] China and many other East Asian countries like Vietnam, Korea and Mongolia will celebrate the lunar New Year on February 7.[4] VeryGoodBoy (talk) 01:36, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Angelo_De_La_Paz has used three sources to claim that Chinese New Year strongly influence new years in other countries, but those sources say nothing about any influence. VeryGoodBoy (talk) 01:47, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

This site[5] says Lunar New Year is also known as Chinese New Year in other places. This does not mean Korean New Year is the same as Chinese New Year. This issue is resolved through the disambiguation page, Lunar New Year. This site[6] says New Year festival is celebrated in Vietnam, not Chinese New Year. Also, this is just a website. Korean dictionaries and encyclopedia treat Korean New Year and Chinese New Year as different celebrations. VeryGoodBoy (talk) 02:11, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

This site[7] is about Lunar New Year and says that Vietnam and Korea have their own celebrations, which means celebrations different from Chinese New Year are celebrated in those countries. VeryGoodBoy (talk) 02:17, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

I am certain many places celebrate it around the world. Some people do it for fun. Is really not that big deal. Your issue is not whether people celebrate it. But whether other culture's lunar new year = chinese new year. The answer is probably no. Benjwong (talk) 03:11, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for the comment. I feel Angelo_De_La_Paz's view that lunar new year in other cultures are same as the Chinese new year is ignorant and lacks respect for cultural diversity. VeryGoodBoy (talk) 03:24, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

If it's a holiday that was exported and absorbed, then it's a variant of Chinese New Year, so indded, if Angelo is saying that Chinese New Year is/was celebrated... he is in many ways correct. If as Very says, that they are different, that is also correct, because cultural assimilation results in different traditions having evolved. If they are separate, then there should be a Japanese Christmas, since it's a (female) Santa Claus and gift giving holiday, and not a Christian one. If they are intricately related, and descendant from the Chinese one, then it should be mentioned here. 70.51.10.188 (talk) 04:17, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

New year is celebrated around the world, mostly in cultures with yearly calendars. Lunisolar calendars are one of them, and because most traditional calendars in East Asia are based on the Chinese lunisolar calendar, new year celebrations are held in generally the same day. But this cannot be evidence to common origin of these different lunar new year celebrations. Korea's Naver Encyclopedia[8] clarifies country of origin in all articles on imoprted culture. There is no mention of China in the article on Korean New Year, and Chinese New Year is treated as a separate subject. As a Korean, Chinese New Year is very foreign to me. And when Blizzard prepared an event in Korean World of Warcraft based on the Chinese New Year and introduced it to Koreans as Korean New Year, the Korean players noticed the obvious differences in its customs and were very angry at Blizzard's ignorance. After unceasing protests and boycott of the event, Blizzard changed the name from Korean New Year to a generic term, New Year. VeryGoodBoy (talk) 04:49, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Let's clarify here. Chinese New Year is celebrated basically anywhere there is a sizable ethnic Chinese community, which is to say, it is celebrated more or less all over the world.[9] Exactly who celebrates it is another matter. Honestly, go ahead and play with the wording so as not to step on anybody's ethnic toes, like so many articles that touch upon identity politics. This is such a trivial matter in my opinion, since there are already individual articles for how lunar new year is celebrated in the relevant cultures. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 13:36, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

It is my understanding the the term "Chinese New Year" is the accepted term for any lunar new year that occurs at around the time that the Chinese one does. Is it fair? I don't know, probably not. But I feel that is the accepted usage. I'll go see if I can get some citations for my opinion. Also, as a side note, you guys might want to note the discussion at Talk:British Isles where the same thing happened (common usage of the term pissed off people from Ireland, but it is the common usage so it stayed. However, the lead talk about how different countries view the term).LedRush (talk) 14:28, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Canada gov't site uses "Chinese New Year" for all lunar years: http://www42.statcan.ca/smr08/smr08_102-eng.htm

American University does the same: http://lanecc.libguides.com/content.php?pid=5173

Poland seems to do the same: http://www.krakowpost.com/articles/2008/02/21/1017.html

I realize these are by no means conclusive...just some small evidence.LedRush (talk) 14:39, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

What it comes down to, as it always does when identity politics comes into play in article editing, is what wording and titles to use. In my mind, the different ways that Lunar New Year is celebrated in different cultures is significant enough that we have seperate articles - which is currently the case. There's not exactly an authoritative source to decide that the common name for Lunar New Year is Chinese New Year, unless you want to do the research to figure out how most governments around the world name it. One issue that may be relevant is whether or not there's a common origin, or if Lunar New Year as it is celebrated in China had influenced the celebrations in other countries - and I think this is a claim that needs to be sourced, or otherwise be excluded from the article. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 17:02, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Hong Qi Gong. Chinese New Year became more familiar to people around the world due to widespread Chinese dispora. In sources that specifically deal with lunar lew year, Chinese is carefully avoided and replaced with a generic term when referring to lunar new years celebrated in other countries. In the Smithsonian magazine for example[10], it commonly uses Chinese New Year, but when referring to those that are celebrated in East Asia, is uses lunar New Year. In BBC News[11], Chinese is again carefully avoided and replaced with New Year. It's understandable for Chinese New Year to be celebrated in Southeast Asia maybe even Vietnam, because of sizable Chinese dispora in that region. But in Korea and Japan, Chinese dispora is not very large, so there aren't many Chinese to celebrate Chinese New Year, so there is no reason for those countries to make Chinese New Year a public holiday. Please check demographic table of Overseas Chinese provided by Hong Qi Gong and cross reference it with the table of coutnries where the article claims Chinese New Year is a public holiday. In Malaysia, there is 6 million Chinese, 2.6 million in Singapore, 100,000 out of 381,371 in Brunei, 1.2 million in Vietnam. In Japan, there is 519,561 out of 127 million, and in South Korea, there is 30,000 out of 49 million. The articel says Chinese New Year is observed as a public holiday in a number of countries and territories where a sizable Chinese population resides. Isn't it self contradictory that Japan and South Korea are included when they don't have a sizable Chinese population? VeryGoodBoy (talk) 21:38, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

East Asian New Year

A solution could be formulating a new article at East Asian New Year that documents descent from the Chinese calendar and celebration, through diffusion to the rest of East Asia, and the similarities and differences between them. 70.51.10.188 (talk) 04:26, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

There is already a disambiguation page for Lunar New Year, and claiming descent and diffusion from Chinese New Year is a dubious and ignorant claim. VeryGoodBoy (talk) 04:49, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Calling other people ignorant usually doesn't score you any points.LedRush (talk) 14:29, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

I'm saying the claim is ignorant, not the person. VeryGoodBoy (talk) 21:41, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

A. the calendar is based on the Chinese one

B. the date is based on the Chinese one

That clearly indicated descent from the Chinese one. How much has descended versus how much was locally developed is not the same thing as not having descent. Your statement "because most traditional calendars in East Asia are based on the Chinese lunisolar calendar, new year celebrations are held in generally the same day" shows descent. 70.51.10.188 (talk) 03:20, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

I don't see that as a basis to claim descent. Those cultures may have had different calendars before adopting the Chinese calendar, and the tradition of celebrating the new year is much more than a specific type of calendar. For instance, the Japanese traditionally used a lunisolar calendar based on the Chinese calendar, but they have switched to the Gregorian calendar and started celebrating new year based on that calendar. Based on your argument, the tradition of Japanese New Year should have ended after adopting the Gregorian calendar, and current Japanese New Year should be descended from Italian New Year because the Gregorian calendar was developed in Italy. VeryGoodBoy (talk) 06:55, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

I don't think it is a good idea. "East Asian New Year" is not a common term in English. If there are disputes over whether Chinese New Year is celebrated outside of Chinese speaking countries, then just put in tag until reliable sources are cited. If reliable sources are not provided, then we can remove these assertions altogether.

In this case, I am curious why User:Angelo_De_La_Paz isn't participating in this discussion since this user is making these assertions and should be backing up the assertions with reliable sources.--pyl (talk) 07:00, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Where Chinese New Year is celebrated and designated a public holiday

Three sources provided by Angelo_De_La_Paz say Chinese New Year is celebrated in China, Southeast Asia, and Chinese communities worldwide. Generic terms such as New Year or Lunar New Year is used for other countries such as Korea, Japan, Vietnam, with one exception where Vietnam is included in Southeast Asia. Disambiguation for new year celebrations in those countries are provided in Lunar New Year.

Proposal 1 - Change Observed by Mainly East Asia countries with various local names. to Observed by China and Overseas Chinese[12][13] or Observed by China and Southeast Asia.[14] I favor Overseas Chinese because this is mostly true in Southeast Asian countries where sizable overseas Chinese reside, and this can also apply to other Chinese communities around the world.

Proposal 2 - Remove Korea, Japan, Vietnam in table of countries where Chinese New Year is celebrated. Southeast Asian countries designated Chinese New Year a public holiday because of sizable overseas Chinese in that region. But in Korea, Japan, Vietnam where overseas Chinese population is relatively small, their own local traditional new year celebrations are designated as a public holiday.

I think these changes are reasonable and fair, and references are provided. I'll make these changes once protection is removed, but if you feel opposed to these changes, please let me know. VeryGoodBoy (talk) 17:08, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

• Oppose - Neither option recognizes the facts as cited above.LedRush (talk) 15:25, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

I have a different approach to this:-

1. Source no 1 is from the BBC. It says "Millions across Asia have begun celebrating the Chinese New Year - the biggest holiday for Chinese communities worldwide."
2. Source no 2 is from "Smithsonian.com". Who are they?
3. I don't think source no 3 is reliable. It is from about.com, and I don't think it has an established reputation in this field of knowledge. I think it also made a factual error. Vietnam's lunar near year doesn't fall on the same day as the Chinese lunar new year.

So far the only reliable source established that the Chinese New Year is celebrated in the Chinese communities worldwide. No assertions for other communities / countries can be made as there are no reliable sources.--pyl (talk) 15:49, 12 October 2008 (UTC)