Talk:Eurovision Song Contest 2009

Liechtenstein

I was wonder if now that Liechtenstein has a national TV broadcast (since augus 15, 2008) will participate in the ESC. Someone can add a reference to the article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.224.217.246 (talk) 04:28, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

It still needs to join the EBU, then it will be able to participate. -- [[ axg ⁞⁞ talk ]] 08:50, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Same with Kosovo. If Liechtenstein is not added, Kosovo shouldn't be neither. It has no active EBU member station. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.47.251.165 (talk) 04:12, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Withdrawals and lead section

I have re-added the withdrawals section again, as I do not agree with its removal. First, the section is not redundant to the infobox - the infobox gives no mention on why Georgia withdrew, which is not very helpful to the reader. Second, although it is happening both in this article and the 2008 article, per WP:LEAD, the lead section should only overview the article, it should not contain exclusive details of information. So I would also oppose moving all details of Georgia's withdrawal to the lead section. A quick mention can be given, but not everything. Yes the withdrawals section is rather short as there is only one withdrawal at the moment, but more can be added in the future and this article is not currently suffering from length problems. Camaron | Chris (talk) 10:06, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

I have re-written the lead to be more compliant with WP:LEAD. The original lead was functioning more like a miscellaneous section and had to much detail of certain topics such as the host (I have now given this its own section) and no mention of some other topics such as participants. The lead is quite short now at only a mid size paragraph, though that this is probably quite close to what it should be at the current article size. As the article gets longer, the lead can get bigger. Camaron | Chris (talk) 10:41, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Ukraine and FYR Macedonia

Stop adding information about possible Macedonian and Ukraine withdrawals. Macedonian broadcaster has confirmed to ESCKaz that withdrawal is not considered, they have broadcasted EDC and are running JESC preselection in September. They are currently considering the selection method for ESC which will announced later this month. Where exactly in this source for Ukraine it is said that withdrawal is possible? It only says that in order to purchase better quality equipment they had to cut down the number of employees as it was unnecessary big anyway. Since it's publication Ukraine took part in EDC 2008, conducted national JESC 08 preselection and now is getting prepared to host JESC 2009 in Kiev. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.47.251.165 (talk) 04:10, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

The ukraine source said that they might not have enough money and that they are still looking for a sponsor, which according to them could take over a year, thus that would mean missing the contest. If macedonia has confirmed add a source, dont just delete random chunks of information. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 12:10, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Moscow accepted as host

Source: [1] Sims2aholic8 (Michael) (talk) 13:41, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for providing that, I have updated the article. Unfortunately I overwrote Mc95's changes in the process, but they were nearly the same as mine, and mine also included the lead section. Camaron | Chris (talk) 14:36, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Serbia not in table

Can someone remind me why Serbia's not in the table of entries like all the others that have information? Sims2aholic8 (Michael) (talk) 20:59, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

We were only adding countries with actualy information to add. In the best case scenario, a country should have more than yes theyre participating and the name of their selection. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 21:03, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

The reference about Spain is False

I speak Spanish and the reference about the participating is false. Now Spain isn't on Eurovision. Maybe in a future. Spain will confirm the participation.--80.31.12.99 (talk) 01:27, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

The source confirms their participation. If you do not believe it or think that that has changed, then supply a reliable rebuttal source. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 02:04, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Ok, Write this in google "Spain will be on Eurovision 2009" or "España participará en Eurovisión 2009"--80.31.12.99 (talk) 02:18, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

The big Four will be in the Final, but Spain hasnt confirmed his paticipation. For example "If Italy will participated on Eurovision would be in the final", but now Italy hasn't confirmed his participation like Spain. I konw that Spain will confirm his participation in few mouth, but now Spain isn't on Eurovision like Croatia or Armenia. --80.31.12.99 (talk) 02:25, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Since you are trying to prove it, you need to find these sources. For all I know you could be right, but I have a source saying otherwise. I am not going to search the internet to prove your point. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 02:28, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

I have reviewed the source and I am personally satisfied it confirms Spain's participation well enough, hence I have re-added Spain to confirmed participants. User testimony is not enough to nullify a reliable source, if there are other sources saying otherwise to this one the issue should be re-considered, but currently non have been provided and it is those making claims that the burden falls on. Camaron | Chris (talk) 15:49, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

I added the reference about Spain to the article. If you read the reference website, you can find "...Francia, Alemania, España y Reino Unido, además de confirmar su participación en la próxima edición de Eurovisión,...". That text means "...France, Germany, Spain and the United Kingdom, additionaly to confirm their participation at the next edicion of the ESC...". The reference says it. Montehermoso-spain (talk) 22:18, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Yes, thank you for catching that. The reference was removed again for some reason. Camaron | Chris (talk) 10:20, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Withdrawals?

Why is San Marino in the possible withdrawals section? There are loads of other countries that are still undecided, eg Ireland, Romania, Moldova etc. Zu Anto —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.46.38.65 (talk) 17:55, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

They have not yet announced if they will continue in the contest, so they a currently in that section. -- [[ axg ⁞⁞ talk ]] 18:02, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

If San Marino have yet to confirm participation, then why are they in the withdrawals? Having San Marino in this section may been seen as misleading information. Would it not be a wise suggestion and to stop all this back-biting to make a section called "Awaiting Participation Confirmation", thus putting an end to people moaning about which country should and shouldn't be in certain sections. (Pr3st0n (talk) 18:10, 19 September 2008 (UTC))

exactly Pr3st0n. Ireland han't yet announced if they will continue but they aren't in the withdrawal section. Zu Anto

I don't know who decided this, but if a country said that they will decide at a later date, they were put into possible withdrawals. I tried to argue that it was the same thing as not saying anything, but got no support. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 12:49, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

I think what has happened here was that this section was originally created to contain information about countries that were considering withdrawing for one reason or another, now it has evolved to be more countries that have not confirmed there participation yet of which there is information about. What I opposed in the discussion Stephan was referring to was just deleting the section as it contains sourced info and I see no point in deleting it. Re-naming this section to something like Countries yet to confirm participation or similar makes sense, the current title is a bit misleading. Camaron | Chris (talk) 10:28, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Austria

I'm confused with the Austrian situation - Austria has been added to the Possible Returns section, yet the information next to it shows that they ARE NOT participating... please can someone explain to me why Austria has been added to the returns, when it is 100% obvious that they have confirmed withdrawal for the second year in a row. - Also Austria have confirmed their commentator for the final; how come this has not been added to a new section "Commentators" (just like in previous years on this site)? (Pr3st0n (talk) 18:18, 19 September 2008 (UTC))

It's not there anymore. Keep in mind that anyone can edit wikipedia so sometimes information that is false is added and not removed right away. 19:22, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

The practice of creating lists of commentators and spokespersons in Eurovision Song Contest year articles was ended last year after a discussion at Talk:Eurovision Song Contest 2008. This is in favour of adding them straight to Country in the Eurovision Song Contest year (or Country in the Eurovision Song Contest article I assume if a year specific one does not exist). The lists of commentators and spokespersons from 2008 are in the middle of being transferred. Those left are at User:Camaron/Sandbox. I would prefer this year that they are added straight to the right place, so the transfer process does not need to be repeated. Camaron | Chris (talk) 10:17, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Israel not in table

Can someone remind me why Israel is not in the table of entries like all the others that have information? They have already confirmed that they are sending Israeli Idol winner, Israel Bar'on to represent them in Moscow 2009. (Pr3st0n (talk) 23:31, 19 September 2008 (UTC))

I thought that was a possibility. I didn't see anything that said he was def going. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 00:08, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Non-participants section

Are we having a non-participants section or not. First it's there, then it's not, and then it is again. Can we just please settle on one solution, and stop edit-warring. Sims2aholic8 (Michael) (talk) 16:01, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Wow, i wasn't on much today but a lot seems to have happened. I'm putting my foot down, no "non participants" section because if they are not participating, then they are withdrawals and if they didn't participate last year that means they are irrelevant for this year, no one should assume their participation. No Kosovo or leichtenstein either as they are not members of the ebu. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 02:03, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

For my opinion over Kosovo, see Talk:Kosovo in the Eurovision Song Contest. I have expressed support for merging the article but I do not give any apologies for supporting its existence in the past. I will accept removing it from this article as well. The non-participants section is problematic as it encourages a number of countries to be listed in every year article, such as Vatican City - so I am happy to see this go. I have added stuff about Austria back to the format section where it was before, as it seems appropriate there. Camaron | Chris (talk) 10:08, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Ukraine and Macedonia confirmed participants

Despite some tabloid rumours,Macedonian MRT representatives have confirmed that withdrawl from ESC 2009 is not considered.Broadcaster have recently shown Eurovision Dance Contest,and was preparing for Junior Eurovision selection,and a huge Tose Proeski tribute to be broadcasted by the EBU network on the 5h October.

Link: http://esckaz.com/2008/

As result of this im removing the countries mentioned from the withdrawals table. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.170.198.102 (talk) 10:02, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

I don't see anything about Macedonia or Ukraine in that link and how does any of this have to do with Ukraine? The only mention of it is in this section's header. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 17:04, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Oikotimes???

Is anyone else having problems getting to Oikotimes.com? have they shut down? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.81.137.8 (talk) 21:28, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Yes and it is killing me. I don't know when or if they will be back up again. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 21:33, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

I also had the same problem the other day but they were back later; hopefully it is just server issues. Camaron | Chris (talk) 21:35, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Wait, you can get on?? Also, proofread the newsletter for me please, I want it out tonight :) Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 21:36, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

I could the other day again, but I could not yesterday, and I still cannot get on now. Camaron2 | Chris (talk) 11:56, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

ITS BACK!!!!!!!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.81.137.8 (talk) 17:05, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Tabels

Hi, i found in spanish wiki, one table for eurovision, in portuguese wiki, i have alredy out the table in de Eurovision 2008 and 2009. I'm where to ask you, if you don't wanna use this table?

Country	Original Song Name	Artist	Seleccion	Seleccion Date
	English Translation	Languages
United Kingdom	TBD	TBD	Eurovision: Your Decision 2009	TBD
	TBD	TBD

--João P. M. Lima (talk) 00:18, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Probably not since it would be a lot of work to update all of the pages. The current table shows enough info for an overview without being too complicated. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 00:22, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Participants sections

Should we move the table, and add in all the confirmed participants, and rename the section "Participating countries" as on the 2008 page? Or is it still too early? Greekboy (talk) 22:53, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

It might make sense. Where did we get the idea to do the national selection stuff in the table by the way? Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 00:31, 13 October 2008 (UTC)