Talk:Religulous

Bleeps

What's up with all of the bleeps in the trailer? It made it almost unwatchable. 76.123.165.106 (talk) 00:45, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

lol, that's not the trailer, you clicked on the "kosher" joke version of the trailer.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.90.204.120 (talk • contribs) 15:27, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

The bleeps are only in the "Kosher" version of the trailer. It's not even stuff worth bleeping. —Preceding unsigned comment added by CorrodedKeri (talk • contribs) 04:24, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Christianity

I would assume that Christians are interviewed in this documentary too. Can we get that inserted in here and cited? 155.138.250.6 (talk) 23:11, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Yes, it is cited already by the source. Feel free to be bold next time! --Rajah (talk) 09:05, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Yes, judeo-christian mythology is covered in the film. --68.81.70.65 (talk) 19:45, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Mockumentary not Documentary

PBS, HBO, Discovery, History, BBC, et al. make documentaries. BM is not serious nor his he neutral. He's hateful and an egomaniac. He makes no attempt at a balanced point of view. Some people may be inclined to take him seriously, and they need to be reminded that BM is a comedian, talking head, and again, egomaniac. Watch this film if you want, but take it with a grain of salt. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.113.81.76 (talk) 22:27, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm not one to defend someone who told the aunt of a mentally retarded child that she should treat her nephew like an animal, but at the same time, it is a documentary. Lots of documentaries, from Michael Moore to Ben Stein, all have biases one way or another.--CyberGhostface (talk) 23:03, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

I think it has been said that all good documentaries have a point of view. A mockumentary is a completely different animal, usually a complete work of fiction with scripted performances like the Christopher Guest films. "Borat" was kind of a blend with a fictionalized character dealing with real people. "Religulous" is neither of those. Bill is being Bill...it's not an act...and he's interviewing real people. If he ends up making some look silly that doesn't make it not a documentary. I've seen it and I don't think Bill goads anyone into looking silly. I'm sure you've seen the part shown in the trailer where the Senator remarks that there's no IQ test for the Senate! Filmteknik (talk) 05:59, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

So you want someone to mention that Maher is a hateful, egomaniac on an objective encyclopedia? Go grind your axe somewhere else. F33bs (talk) 07:54, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia? Objective? Heh.--CyberGhostface (talk) 12:27, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

We try. So should you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.212.2.86 (talk) 15:45, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Ummm...who says I haven't? Didn't I disagree with the initial poster about this being a 'mockumentary'? Even if I personally don't like Maher, I'm not going to be using his article(s) as a personal agenda for that.--CyberGhostface (talk) 16:56, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

The content of the documentary has to be made up for it to be a mockumentary. However if you read the article it says he lied about who he was to get some of his interviews, so this documentary might fall under the category of being made up. Ninja337 (talk) 21:18, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

He was dishonest in obtaining the interviews, that much is definitely true. However, the interviews themselves are 'factual' in that he's not playing a fictional character ala Borat and he's interviewing real people. On another note, while it doesn't excuse Maher, lots of documentary filmmakers have lied to obtain interviews with people who normally wouldn't give interviews in the first place.--CyberGhostface (talk) 21:32, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Maher has said multiple times that the movie is meant to be first and foremost: a comedy. Not a documentary. F33bs (talk) 00:48, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

A mockumentary is a fictional documentary, like Best In Show or Borat. Whilst you may feel that this movie is not 100% seriosus etc etc, but it is still technically a documentary.Sadistic monkey (talk) 09:04, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

I would not call "Borat" a mockumentary, I would call it a "semi-documentary" whose closest parallel is "Candid Camera" as the ordinary people interacting with the Borat character were caught in the act of being themselves under outrageous circumstances. Steelbeard1 (talk) 12:23, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

````Bill isnt trying to make anyone look idiotic. I dont think he's being byast, he's simply tying to contrast everything he's being told. Thats what a documentry is-when every bit of information, or belif in this case, is questioned again and again to get the best possible idea of whats going on. He's a commedian, so can you really blame him for making a few people look a little silly. I think it's a great movie. Also, if t were a mock., don't you think they would have included more byast?```` —Preceding unsigned comment added by CorrodedKeri (talk • contribs) 04:34, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

I'd love to see this movie, but since not living in the United Mistakes, I can't! This is also what disgustes me, the money making! If BM's intention was to reach as many people as possible and "wake" them up a bit, he himself should provide a download of the whole movie. I'm sure he's a very good income and doesn't really need those additional millions! (maybe at least, he'll use that money for a good purpose, I hope!) By the way, there's a new Zeitgeist movie out now, an Addendum. Everyone should see that! AND, Zeitgeist as well as the Addendum is 100% FREE! The makers even encourage people to spread it and hand out copies to as many people as possible! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.72.111.41 (talk) 18:14, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Slate Review

An anon tried removing this because he felt it didn't represent the critical basis of the film and that it was inaccurate because Maher's not an atheist. There's ten positive reviews and two negative reviews listed. I think, at the very least, that should be an acceptable ratio. (Actually, considering the current 65% percent on RT, 10-2 probably isn't that accurate, but I'm not going to try to change it)

At the same time, I found a cited article stating with Maher stating that he's not an atheist, just not a believer in religion and cited that article with the statement about the film being atheistic, so hopefully no one will read the Slant review now and (perish the thought!) think that Maher's an atheist.--CyberGhostface (talk) 23:20, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

(although Maher has stated that he's not an atheist, and that "There's a really big difference between an atheist and someone who just doesn't believe in religion") - removed this bit, as "atheistic" is referring to the film, not to Maher. Cirt (talk) 00:53, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Reception Section

As it stands, it seems that the passage on the film's reviews - which cites numerous reviews at length - is rather too long. I think it should be trimmed down.--Seed-kun (talk) 07:34, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Nah, I think instead we should focus on expanding the other sections - Contents, with an expanded summary of the documentary; Production, with more info on any casting info, how the production team got together and background on that, editing info, music, etc.; and then subsequently expand the lede accordingly. This is actually an adequate size for a Reception section of the article in comparison to other Featured Articles on film topics. Cirt (talk) 07:39, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Speakers' Corner

[1] - Do we have a source for this? Cirt (talk) 22:38, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

[2]--CyberGhostface (talk) 22:45, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

 Done, thanks. Cirt (talk) 22:51, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Comparison with "An American Carol"

"American Carol" director David Zucker himself calls his film the opposite of this film at http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/ent/stories/DN-carol_1003gl.ART.State.Edition1.2699bd1.html so comparisons with that film do belong in this article. Steelbeard1 (talk) 18:46, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

The comparison "might" belong in the article somewhere, but comparing revenue is still OR, unless you have another rabbit in your hat somewhere? I will revert your newest attempt to push your own observations and opinions. 18:50, 6 October 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by CENSEI (talk • contribs)

Variety has an article directly comparing the two films at http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117993541.html?categoryid=13&cs=1 Steelbeard1 (talk) 03:05, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Here's a comparison from a Catholic viewpoint: http://www.ncregister.com/site/article/16170/ Steelbeard1 (talk) 03:31, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

As I mentioned in the other talk page, only one of those compares the revenue figures and that's as an aside. You really need a better source if you want to add such comparisons else it's OR. If you want to mention that it opened aside Religilious that's fine, but don't mention viewership/revenue figures without a good source making this comparison Nil Einne (talk) 11:55, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

The weekly box office links are not sufficient enough? Steelbeard1 (talk)

Where was Rael?

The text of the article and some of the pre-release blurbs mention "Rael of the Raelean Movement", but I didn't see him in the movie, unless it was in one of the brief cut scenes, which wouldn't be worth mentioning individually.Prebys (talk) 19:38, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

I didn't see him either, although I did doze off a few times, so I could have missed him. Krakatoa (talk) 17:51, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Caveats on reviewers

Film critic Roger Ebert, a Roman Catholic... - I do not think this is an appropriate change, this bit of info is irrelevant here, and "Roman Catholic" should be removed. Are we to state the faith of all of the reviewers and film critics now? Cirt (talk) 18:04, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

I agree. It should be removed.--CyberGhostface (talk) 19:51, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

I agree, and I've removed it. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 02:09, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. Cirt (talk) 02:17, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

No, we are not "to state the faith of all of the reviewers and film critics now", but Ebert's faith is relevant given that a) he is quite religious and has based whole columns on that and b) he references this by saying he reports "faithfully" and c) he gives a positive review even though the movie mocks his religion and others' Keepscases (talk) 16:42, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Reply to Keepscases (talk · contribs) - I disagree, as does CyberGhostface (talk · contribs) and Metropolitan90 (talk · contribs). This is highly inappropriate and I have never seen this sort of prefacing done before in any other Reception section of any article of this type. It is POV and borderline WP:OR, and tangential and irrelevant. Cirt (talk) 16:44, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

I have added the following: "Maher scores his best points when he is interviewing certified weirdos and borderline lunatics, like a South American fellow named Jesus who claims, perhaps partly on the basis of the shared name, that he is the second coming of Jesus Christ," says Dinesh D'Souza. Obviously, he charges, "Maher is in search of weak opponents that he can embarrass." D'Souza has challenged him to hold a debate: "I would love to debate him on his show, and can easily show that Maher’s self-image as an intellectual is largely bogus. It is only in the company of obvious charlatans and simpletons that Maher comes off as the bright guy." (Why Bill Maher Made Me Laugh by Dinesh D'Souza) Asteriks (talk) 09:57, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

I think that should be rephrased. It does not sound very NPOV for me, rather like a press release... SoWhy 10:12, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

I agree that this material is POV, not just that, it is way too much quoted text, should be trimmed down significantly, and paraphrased. Cirt (talk) 10:17, 13 October 2008 (UTC)