Talk:City College of New York

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Suggestion

Someone please rewrite this page, the rankings section looks absolutely horrendous, I dont much about this university but this the current page looks awful.

Shouldn't notable alumni have their own page?, We're adding new non-written notable alumni who graduate from Cuny each day.

History

"City College was originally founded as the Free Academy of the City of New York in 1847 by Townsend Harris, a combination prep school and college, to provide children of the poor, and immigrants also, access to free higher education based on academic merit and other significant criteria."

Weasel word alert: "and other significant criteria" is impossibly vague. Besides, it is untrue. There were no "other significant criteria," and inserting that phrase misleadingly suggests that applicants who lacked academic merit were nonetheless admitted; they were not. I suspect that whoever inserted the misleading phrase sought to fabricate a precedent for open admissions, when no such precedent existed. 70.23.199.239 22:59, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"Charging Admissions"

Is "charging admissions" really correct? Shouldn't we say that CCNY began charging for admission or charging tuition? "Charging admissions" makes it sound like a movie, not a college. Rlquall 02:32, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

what is the rank of college?

hey guys help me out telling me about the rank of this university. thanx johny

It ranks, man.

What does it rank as? In what tier? By whom?

Nobel Laureates

Sorry, but UC Berkeley is a public uni and I'm almost sure that is has produced more Nobel laureates than City. I wish someone would check that.

City College is talking about alumni who went on to win the Nobel Prize. UC Berkeley has an impressive list of scholars and faculty who won, but I am not sure about the number of alumni. City College has claimed this for many decades. One should decisively investigate. But here's a link to UCB "scholars" (faculty and researchers) who won the Nobel Prize, which is indeed impressive. [1] -- Wikiklrsc 18:36, 21 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I think City College is talking about people who did their undergraduate studies and graduated from City College and went on to get a Nobel Prize. I don't think they count people who did their Ph.D. at a university. I found a list of UC Berkeley Nobel Prize winners which is quite comprehensive, and would seem to have more alumni than City College, who won the Nobel Prize, but not all of whom did their undergraduate degree at UC Berkeley. List_of_Nobel_laureates_associated_with_UC_Berkeley -- Wikiklrsc 18:55, 21 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The undergraduate programs at Berkeley and CCNY have each graduated nine Nobel Laureates as of early 2006. CCNY has an edge, though, because two other laureates studied there for part of their undergraduate careers: Julian Schwinger (Physics 1965), who transferred to Columbia; and Henry Kissinger (Peace 1973), who transferred to Harvard.

Well that should be reflected in the article then, shouldn't it?

Surely, as time permits. We're all volunteers ! Have a look at this Wikipedia article (which may or may not be accurate or complete) which seems to address some points you raised:

Nobel Prize laureates by university affiliation

Wikiklrsc 02:33, 22 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Le Mot Juste

Even today, after three decades of relative mediocrity... Is mediocrity le mot juste here? Firstly it strains the objectivity, and secondly CCNY's recent status is, unfortunately, somewhat below mediocre.

I didn't write it. I just don't know. The statement has a perceptual essence of fact in it. There are some really great and famous professors still there from many decades ago. CCNY is just not the same place it was many decades ago when the best and the brightest went there in lieu of ivy league colleges. The perception of the institution as a whole, I don't know. I do know it is trying to bounce back. They are building a dormitory -- the first one ever at CCNY. They have an honours college within CCNY. Being a special public "for all" college, its student population by-and-large follows the trend of the current minority populations in greater New York City. Some students do come from out of state, and from abroad, but they are not seemingly in very large numbers, at least at the undergraduate level, currently. -- Wikiklrsc 02:49, 23 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Yes but mediocre? As I said I don't think CCNY or CUNY as a whole has yet "bounced back" to mediocre.

Why not soften that? "After three decades of controversy concerning its academic standards" would be less judgmental.

How do soften the truth? How do you talk about standards without being judgmental? You can't.

CCNY was, until its 1965 introduction of "remedial education," the nation's finest undergraduate institution, private or public, in terms of its admissions and graduations requirements, and thus the brilliance of its students. Since its 1970 introduction, in response to threats of racist violence, of "open admissions" (the standard of being able to "fog up a mirror"), CCNY has been a mockery of its prior greatness. A sterling exception is its School of Engineering, which did not water down its standards. Otherwise, CCNY does not deserve to be accredited as an institution of higher education. I invite all who are interested in City's history to read James Traub's City on a Hill ... and weep.

70.23.199.239 22:47, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Dormitory at the college

Actually this is the second dormitory at city college. the first one closed in the 1950's (it was off campus housing) [2] 64.131.207.37 08:02, 22 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, yes, but this one is the first one built exclusively from the ground up as a dormitory, and on campus. The Hebrew Orphan Asylum across from CCNY was originally just that, The Hebrew Orphan Asylum, unaffiliated with CCNY, but later housed "Army Hall" where the large ROTC classes, etc. were held. Then for a some years it may have housed some rooms for students. Then it was demolished. To wit: "Designed by William H. Hume. Erected 1884 as new home of Hebrew Orphan Asylum (HOA). When the HOA closed, the building was used by City College to house members of the U. S. Armed Forces assigned to the Army Specialized Training Program (ASTP). From 1946-1955, it provided dormitory, library and classroom space to the college. Demolished 1955/6." [3] --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 16:20, 22 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Rockefeller & CCNY

An anonymous contributor put these statements in the article, which were unverifiable. Tuition only started after Rockefeller was out of office. He was governor until 1973 and tuition started being charged in 1976. And the "umbrella" university, CUNY, was founded in 1961. Something doesn't seem to add up. The original statement by the contributor was:

There had been a desire to create a "university" umbrella for the various city run colleges which had been operating as extensions of The City College. Governor Nelson Rockefeller agreed to university status on condition that the colleges charge tuition. Up until that point, New York city's public colleges had always been free.

If anyone can verify this please showing citations or some backing information, then re-insert it. Thanks. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 15:56, 4 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Good edit. The original post was not correct. CUNY began long before imposition of tuition, which I believe was in 1976 or perhaps even later. Thanks. -- Fred Sherman

Thanks, Fred. I was really confused on understanding the addition to the article ! Best Regards. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 15:42, 5 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"Fictional" alumni / students of CCNY

I wonder if this category "Fictional" (students/alumni/etc.) that someone started recently, really works in this article. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 19:16, 28 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"flagship campus"

I still think that's POV unless it's cited somewhere. Did Princeton Review or Kaplan call it that? Or a news article about CCNY? Wl219 02:59, 1 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You're right. When "CUNY" was founded in 1961, CCNY was its flagship college, but the school lost that status when CUNY gutted its academic standards between 1965 and 1970. 70.23.199.239 06:07, 22 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Point Shaving

It seems a bit off -- and honestly, perhaps even biased -- to have a mention of CCNY being "well-known" for their dual NCAA/NIT championships in 1950, yet no mention whatsoever of the arguably more well-known point-shaving scandal which involved members of that very team and which immediately thereafter led to CCNY's departure from major college athletics. Unfortunately, I'm not well-versed enough in the details of that incident to feel comfortable incorporating it into the article, but hopefully someone is. JFMorse 14:39, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Prestigious scholarships section

What I am concerned about it that the list might be incomplete. Surely, not only recent graduates have won such scholarships ? It looks lop-sided. Any ideas ? --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 13:25, 8 May 2007 (UTC) (talk)[reply]