This is a page for working on Arbitration decisions. The Arbitrators, parties to the case, and other editors may draft proposals and post them to this page for review and comments. Proposals may include proposed general principles, findings of fact, remedies, and enforcement provisions—the same format as is used in Arbitration Committee decisions. The bottom of the page may be used for overall analysis of the /Evidence and for general discussion of the case.

Any user may edit this workshop page. Please sign all suggestions and comments. Arbitrators will place proposed items they believe should be part of the final decision on the /Proposed decision page, which only Arbitrators may edit, for voting.

Motions and requests by the parties

Template

1)

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Comment by others:

Template

2)

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Comment by others:

Template

3)

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Comment by others:

Proposed temporary injunctions

Template

1)

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Comment by others:

Template

2)

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Comment by others:

Template

3)

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Comment by others:

Template

4)

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Comment by others:

Questions to the parties

Proposed final decision

Proposals by User:Lawrence Cohen

Proposed Principles

Purpose of Wikipedia

1) Wikipedia is a project to create a neutral encyclopedia. Use of the site for other purposes—including, but not limited to soapboxing (such as advocacy or propaganda), furtherance of external conflicts, and political, racial, or ideological struggle—is prohibited.

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Proposed. Everything else is secondary or tertiary to making a neutral encyclopedia. That includes pushing advocacy or politics. Lawrence Cohen 16:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by others:

Civility

2) Civility is a requirement on Wikipedia; users must act civilly toward one another. Incivility in response to someone else's prior incivility is not acceptable, either. Repeated instances of incivility after requests to desist is grounds for preventative sanctions.

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Proposed. Lawrence Cohen 16:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by others:

Decorum

3) Wikipedia users are expected to behave reasonably and calmly in their interactions with other users, to keep their cool when editing, and to avoid acting in a manner that brings the project into disrepute. Unseemly conduct—including, but not limited to, personal attacks, incivility, assumptions of bad faith, trolling, harassment, and gaming the system—is prohibited. Users should not respond to such behavior in kind; concerns regarding the actions of other users should be brought up in the appropriate forums.

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Proposed. Lawrence Cohen 16:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by others:

Assume good faith

4) Users are expected to assume good faith in their dealings with other editors, especially those with whom they have had conflicts in the past.

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Proposed. Lawrence Cohen 16:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by others:

Consensus can change

5) A previously-accepted consensus may be altered if opinions surrounding it have demonstrably changed.

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Proposed. Consensus can always change. Lawrence Cohen 16:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by others:

Consensus should be followed

6) If a consensus is formed, it should be followed unless an extenuating circumstance (such as overriding one of Wikipedia's core policies) prevents it.

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Proposed. Unless a consensus goes counter to a core policy, it should be honored. Lawrence Cohen 16:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by others:

Objecting to consensus

7) The proper way to object to a consensus is to get it changed, not to revert war or ignore it. If a consensus is claimed to be invalid under policy, the responsibility lies always with those objecting per policy to demonstrate and prove this.

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Proposed. If consensus is claimed to be invalid under policy, which anyone can claim if they don't like the consensus, the requirement should be on them to demonstrate this--not the other way around. To do otherwise would be that phrase I see here and there: a troll's charter. Lawrence Cohen 16:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by others:

Personal attacks

8) Personal attacks are expressly prohibited because they make Wikipedia a hostile environment for editors, and thereby damage Wikipedia both as an encyclopedia (by losing valued contributors) and as a wiki community (by discouraging reasoned discussion). Wikipedia editors should conduct their relationship with other editors with courtesy, and must avoid responding in kind when personally attacked.

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Proposed, obvious, but important here. Lawrence Cohen 16:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by others:

Edit warring

9) Edit wars or revert wars are usually considered harmful, because they cause ill-will between users and negatively destabilize articles. Editors are encourage to explore alternate methods of dispute resolution, such as negotiation, surveys, requests for comment, mediation, or arbitration. When disagreements arise, users are expected to adhere to the three-revert rule and discuss their differences rationally rather than reverting ad nauseum. "Slow revert wars," where an editor persistently reverts an article but technically adheres to the three-revert rule are also strongly discouraged and are unlikely to constitute working properly with others.

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Proposed. Lawrence Cohen 16:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by others:

POV pushing

10) The term POV-pushing has been coined to describe the aggressive promotion of a certain point of view in a manner which seeks to give that point of view undue weight particularly in article space.

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Proposed, needed for context. Lawrence Cohen 16:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by others:

Minority viewpoints

11) Minority viewpoints, such as those held by a small number of sourced, reliably sourced authorities, relative to the popular majority in a given subject area, should not be elevated to any higher prominence or authority than the overriding base of consensus on that subject. See WP:WEIGHT, and WP:FRINGE.

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Proposed. Very important to this case. Lawrence Cohen 16:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by others:

WP:WEIGHT

12) Wikipedia articles nor editors should not attempt to represent a dispute as if a view held by a small minority deserved as much attention as a majority view. Views that are held by a tiny minority should not be represented except in articles devoted to those views. To give undue weight to a significant-minority view, or to include a tiny-minority view, might be misleading as to the shape of the dispute.

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Proposed. Crucial for NPOV and to keep the minority or fringe viewpoints at bay on any and all articles, or else they'll overrun Wikipedia. Lawrence Cohen 16:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by others:

Banned users

13) Editing on behalf of banned users, or acting as proxy for them, is not acceptable.

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Proposed. Lawrence Cohen 16:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by others:

Who's who

14) It is not necessary to prove conclusively that multiple accounts are operated by the same person in order to take action against them. Accounts that pursue the same goals in the same disruptive manner may be treated as a single account for arbitration purposes. From Free Republic RFAR.

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Proposed. Lawrence Cohen 16:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by others:

Restriction of disruptive editors

15) The editing of users who disrupt editing by edit warring, use of sockpuppets, personal attacks or incivility, or aggressive sustained point of view editing may be restricted. In extreme cases they may be banned from the site. From Free Republic RFAR.

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Proposed. Lawrence Cohen 16:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by others:

Proxy users

16) New users whose behavior matches that of a restricted user may be considered subject to the same restrictions regardless of whether they are actually the same person or another individual acting as a proxy for them. From Free Republic RFAR.

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Proposed. Lawrence Cohen 16:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by others:

Advocacy and propaganda

17) Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not#Wikipedia is not a soapbox, a policy, forbids use of Wikipedia as a vehicle for advocacy or propaganda. From Free Republic RFAR.

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Proposed. Lawrence Cohen 16:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by others:

Wikipedia and politics

18) Political repercussions play no role in what Wikipedia publishes, and is of no concern to Wikipedia.

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Proposed. Crucially important. If Wikipedia had any reason to be concerned about political ramifications of what we post in articles, we couldn't be neutral. Since NPOV is our gold standard, anything that conflicts with it has to be killed on sight. That includes any nonsense about external political ramifications, for example, if the article calls "Waterboarding a form of torture". That is just one possible example. Lawrence Cohen 16:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think anyone was actually using such arguments. Rather, I was contending that saying "waterboarding is a form of torture" is not NPOV. I was not in any way expressing concern with real-world political consequences. Walton^One 18:05, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by others:

Attempts to play politics

19) Attempts to manipulate Wikipedia article content with a concern for external politics of any sort is unacceptable, and potentially disruptive.

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Proposed. Akin to inserting undue external influence on the encyclopedia, or harassing pressure on our private internal operations. Probably should be bannable if ongoing. Lawrence Cohen 16:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by others:

World view

20) Wikipedia articles should cover a global, world view. If a subject covers multiple nations, for example, it may be a violation of NPOV to highlight one nation's perspective or viewpoint over others. WP:WEIGHT, WP:UNDUE.

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Proposed. We don't write for one national audience's contentment, and never should. Lawrence Cohen 16:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Roughly two-thirds of the world's native speakers of English live in the United States. This is the English language Wikipedia. Neutral Good (talk) 20:09, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Please cite your numbers. There are 250,000,000 citizens in the US. You're excluding all of Canada, the United Kingdom, Ireland, South Africa, Australia, New Zealand, much of the Caribbean, and every nation in the world where English is taught as a second language (e.g., Europe and India, who together make the US population look tiny). This is a global project, not a national one. Lawrence Cohen 20:13, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by others:

Wikipedia is not a legal guide

21) If a Wikipedia states that something is something, it is doing based on secondary or tertiary sourcing from others only, per original research policies. Therefore, Wikipedia is not required to demonstrate a subject's legal status to make a sourced statement about it, especially considering that Wikipedia is read world-wide, and local laws vary.

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Proposed. Obvious. We don't care about legal interpretations of subject matter more than we do anything else sourced. We just report it. Absence of a legal definition, a point brought up in the waterboarding debates, is pointless to us too. We don't care about something we can't source to exist. Lawrence Cohen 16:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

True, but I think you've entirely missed the point. Those on the "waterboarding is torture" side are backing their views up principally with reference to "expert" legal opinion, and claiming that such opinion is all that matters. In reality, since (as you correctly point out) laws vary between countries, and there is no universal definition of torture, we should not give special weight to legal opinion over political and public opinion. Walton^One 18:08, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've never proposed such a thing, myself. My stance since day one has been based on the weight of the sources overall for determining a definition of a thing. If you have 500 sources overall that say Subject is X, and 10 sources that say Subject is Y, that's a pretty clear case supporting per NPOV and weight that we say Subject is X, and make reference down-page or down in the article that a "minority disagrees". My point was that we don't owe any special allegiance to legal definitions as established by legal bodies, as some have alleged we do. Lawrence Cohen 18:12, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by others:

"The value of silence"

22) Wikipedia articles need not consider the lack, or non-existence, of potential sourced material when weighing NPOV.

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Proposed. In Randy2063's question "What is the value of silence?" he asks what if Wikipedia can make a statement on the subject if there is a potential lack of sourcing to a degree. In regards to how so many governments are silent on statements about waterboarding: "I am saying that there is a huge gap in what we know, and we cannot use that gap to say that everyone calls it torture when so many are silent." The curious question for NPOV here, is, can we make a statement on something if not all possible authorities that exist have weighed in on the subject? Yes, we certainly can. Lawrence Cohen 16:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by others:

Fact vs generalization and NPOV

23) NPOV application does not require articles to state facts with qualifiers, such as "generally considered..." unless there is significant evidence presented that alternative viewpoints are widely accepted. There is never a need for qualifications on statements for any reason beyond sourced demonstration of a legitimate dispute on a scale proportionate to the scale of the article's subject matter.

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Proposed. The Earth article says the Earth is an oblate spheroid. It doesn't say, "Widely considered to be a spheroid" with a qualification due to some religious beliefs in the world. Global warming says what is, based on sourced evidence, what is known at this time as the accepted cause of global warming, with only the qualification that "individual" scientists disagree, later in the article. We don't qualify Oswald's status as our nation's worst assassin, despite dispute of this in minority and fringe circles. Apollo program says man walked on the moon, and does not qualify this in the lead in any way. Apollo Moon Landing hoax accusations says a survey showed 5%-6% of Americans believed the landings were faked. That is on balance more of a ratio than our sources that dispute "waterboarding is torture". NPOV does not require qualifications on statements in articles unless a real need for a qualification is demonstrated. For an article on a subject demonstrating it's use over the centuries, we would need more than a handful of people in the past 3-5 years making contrary statements to have a "dispute" worthy of a qualifier. Lawrence Cohen 16:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by others:

Recentism and NPOV in article content

24) "An encyclopedia should take a global and historical perspective, not the perspective of a certain political group in a certain country in a particular year."[1]

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Proposed. Wording is from linked comment by User:Chris Bainbridge. On a topic that spans a long historical period of time (Examples: History of France, Abortion, Waterboarding), subject matter and opinion cited should not be weighted with a predominately modern view, in respect of NPOV. Per neutrality, an article should cover the scope of opinion on a subject over the years. Recent, new viewpoints and ideas are not entitled to carry additional weight under NPOV. Lawrence Cohen 16:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by others:

Wikipedia is self-contained

25) NPOV is an internal construct of Wikipedia. NPOV and article content is not to be swayed by any theoretical or alleged repercussions, if any, that a article which is compliant with our standards and policies may have on the world outside of Wikipedia, or in how the outside world may perceive the subject of a Wikipedia article because of enforcement of NPOV or other policies. See Depictions of Muhammad.

Note: (In other words, if an article is fine by our internal guidelines, policies, and standards, we simply don't care about theoretical social or other repercussions the article content may have outside of Wikipedia. Please suggest better wording if mine is unclear, this one was hard to write.)

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Critical point. On rereading the various talk pages, I have a feeling this is a major factor, if not the major factor. Wikipedia is the first hit for both water boarding and waterboarding on Google. Wikipedia is considered an authoritative source by many, many people. If you look up water boarding, you will end up on our article. Our article, based on sourcing and lots of slow deliberation, was modified to say "Waterboarding is a form of torture" over time in it's lead as the primary description. It is based on sourcing and outside views of sources a form of torture, just as the rack, Denailing, the iron maiden, and crushing by elephant are all forms of torture. No one in academia or in general really disputes this, except for a very, very small number of people in the United States, and all of them after the year 2001. If people come here, and read the sourced entry that says, "Waterboarding is torture," could it sway outside opinion in the US or world? Maybe, maybe not. I personally don't care. I don't think we have any reason under policy to do so either as a project. Its of no concern to Wikipedia. Based on the partisan, political reasonings people seem to advocate for elevating the stature of the United States opinion on this subject, I think this point, and the "Editors proposed violating NPOV" FOF, are the core of this whole case. Some want to alter the wording to alter public perception, for possibly noble causes; some want to be rigidly NPOV, irregardless of external consequences outside of Wikipedia, no matter how good or bad they may be. I propose that our only duty is to create the best damn articles possible--what people do with them after reading them, in their minds, hearts, or wherever: we don't care. Who is right? Proposed. Lawrence Cohen 16:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by others:

Proposed findings of fact

Massive edit warring and incivility

1) There was incredibly intense edit warring on Waterboarding, especially over whether or not the practice can be called "torture" per NPOV and sourcing.

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Proposed. Painfully obvious. Lawrence Cohen 16:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by others:

Editors proposed violating NPOV

2) Editors proposed violating NPOV, a core Foundation level policy, by devalueing non-United States sourcing, or sourcing of certain alleged political viewpoints: "Foreign opinion is irrelevant because they haven't necessarily been under the same pressures,"[2] "You mean politically motivated, POV fringe opinions like Human Rights Watch? Or politically motivated, fringe opinions from 100 law professors whose previously published writings indicate membership in the lunatic left-wing fringe? You mean politically motivated, POV fringe opinions like those?"[3]

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Proposed. Lawrence Cohen 16:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This is neither helpful nor fair. Editors are entitled to disagree in good faith about what constitutes an NPOV view. For the ArbCom to rule that certain editors had "proposed violating NPOV" would require them to rule on content, which they cannot do. I have no opinion as to most of your other submissions, but this one is unacceptable. Walton^One 17:41, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This a FOF based on the statements. It's against policy to disregard foreign sources, as that would be a violation of NPOV--positing that we should disregard sources not from the United States is calling then for violating NPOV. That's not a content matter, since we can't disregard "foreign opinion", so calling for disregarding it is a behavioral and social issue. Either way, what is "foreign"? We have editors from many nations and continents here. To disenfranchise whole countries in favor of another's viewpoints is the height of an NPOV violation. Lawrence Cohen 17:51, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that we should not disregard non-US opinion; however, that's substantially a content issue. To post it as a behavioural FOF like this makes it look as if the editor making that comment had done something wrong in giving their opinions, which isn't the case; he gave a civil and reasoned, though incorrect, view. The second of the two diffs provided is simply arguing that certain sources should not be over-relied on because their authors have displayed evidence of political bias. Without having reviewed the sources, which I haven't done, I can't comment on whether he's right or wrong, but again, there is no behavioural and social issue in him making that comment. (His edit-warring certainly is a behavioural issue, but I'm staying out of that side of the debate.) Walton^One 18:24, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately, I strongly disagree that this is a content issue--it's a policy one, of whether excluding or minimizing sourcing based on nation of origin is acceptable under NPOV, which I contend it never is. To advocate nationalism is disruptive. Lawrence Cohen 18:37, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by others:

User:BryanFromPalatine never left Wikipedia after being banned

3) Based on available evidence, it is probable to certain that User:BryanFromPalatine, banned on arbitration here, never left Wikipedia after his enforced removal following the Free Republic RFAR, and that he himself or direct meatpuppets acting for him are User:Neutral Good, User:PennState21, User:Harry Lives!, User:Shibumi2, 209.221.240.193, 68.29.174.61, 70.9.150.106, 68.31.220.221 and any other related Sprint Wireless IPs from the same geographic area that all show a very common interest and positioning in the same articles (Waterboarding and Free Republic) are operating in tandem.

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Proposed. Please review my full evidence as presented. These IPs all circulate around locations such as Palatine, Elmhurst, and Hoffman Estates Illinois, any of the three being no more than 19 miles from each other--10 to 15 minutes' drive. What are the odds of all these random, unrelated, with no connection to each other people from this one suburban corner of Illinois all happening to arrive on a page that is a Conservative hotbed, and one of them just happens to be the Checkuser-confirmed IP address (go look at the old Checkuser Request--they confirmed 209 was this BryanFromPalatine fellow), all at the same time? Lawrence Cohen 16:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Opposed. The "209" IP editor hasn't edited the Free Republic article or its Talk page, nor have I. Based on a review of his User Talk page, neither he nor I want anything to do with that article. Freepers are homophobic neanderthals. I would have an immediate COI editing that article because I am diametrically opposed to them. As the "209" editor has pointed out, 17,000 fellow employees share his corporate IP address; about 13 million people live in Illinois; about 55 million people use Sprint wireless accounts; and Chicago and its suburbs are the communications hub of the entire Midwestern United States, meaning that close to 100 million Internet users have IP addresses resolving to that area. This evidence is so circumstantial that it's laughable. Neutral Good (talk) 20:01, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Possibly. Your numbers are drawn from whole cloth and without citation or support, I've merely presented all this evidence that does appear that Brian never left. Did you read each link and follow all the evidence? The fact that 209.221.240.193 was removing tags on random users and IPs that were tagged as socks of Bryan? Why would an IP address do such a strange behavior, were it not Bryan? Add in that all these IPs and users seem to praise each other with the same language; all have the same interests, and all geolocate to a 15 square mile radius out in the suburbs of Chicago: coincidence, maybe, but the coincidences start to pile up enough, and you start to have patterns that aren't coincidences at all. There are many Checkusers on the AC. If the evidence has merit, it will stand. If not, not, and I'll drop it. How many coincidences does it take before fact emerges? Lawrence Cohen 20:16, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

By the way, look at this this complete edit history of the IP. Search the text for "Free Republic", and your claim the IP never touched the article falls apart. He was all over it. Lawrence Cohen 20:17, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by others:

User:Neutral Good is a single purpose account

4) Based on his own admissions and contributions, Neutral Good is an SPA that focuses just on the Waterboarding issue.[4] The user began performing minor edits to articles of politicians after the start of this arbitration.[5]

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Proposed. Please refer to links and evidence. Lawrence Cohen 16:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There is nothing wrong with being a single purpose account. Neutral Good (talk) 20:01, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by others:

User:Neutral Good has been a disruptive presence

5) Based on evidence[6].

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Proposed. Please refer to links and evidence. Lawrence Cohen 16:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've attempted to be a constructive presence. The only thing I've really disrupted is an attempt to WP:OWN the article by people who are violating WP:NPOV. Neutral Good (talk) 19:21, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by others:

User:Neutral Good is a sock or meatpuppet of User:BryanFromPalatine

6) Per supplied Evidence, this user is a sockpuppet or meatpuppet of the banned User:BryanFromPalatine. Per standard Arbcom precedents sanctions on banned users apply to those working for banned users. As such, this user is either blocked as sock/meatpuppets of BryanFromPalatine, or share his same indefinite ban.

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Proposed. Please refer to links and evidence. Lawrence Cohen 16:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Opposed. See argument above. I have nothing in common with the Freepers. I'm diametrically opposed to them. They're homophobic neanderthals and I would never even consider editing the Free Republic article or its Talk page. Since that was the main focus of Bryan/Dean and since he never edited Waterboarding, Lawrence's entire case collapses. Neutral Good (talk) 20:01, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by others:

User:Shibumi2 is a sock or meatpuppet of User:BryanFromPalatine

7) Per supplied Evidence, this user is a sockpuppet or meatpuppet of the banned User:BryanFromPalatine. Per standard Arbcom precedents sanctions on banned users apply to those working for banned users. As such, this user is either blocked as sock/meatpuppets of BryanFromPalatine, or share his same indefinite ban.

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Proposed. Please refer to links and evidence. Lawrence Cohen 16:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by others:

The various "Bob" Sprint Wireless IPs are socks or meatpuppets of User:BryanFromPalatine

8) Per supplied Evidence, this user is a sockpuppet or meatpuppet of the banned User:BryanFromPalatine. Per standard Arbcom precedents sanctions on banned users apply to those working for banned users. As such, this user is either blocked as sock/meatpuppets of BryanFromPalatine, or share his same indefinite ban.

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Proposed. Please refer to links and evidence. Lawrence Cohen 16:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by others:

209.221.240.193 is User:BryanFromPalatine

9) Per supplied Evidence, 209.221.240.193 when speaking on conservative interest topics, such as waterboarding, Free Republic, or conficts related to it, are the banned User:BryanFromPalatine.

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Proposed. Please refer to links and evidence. Lawrence Cohen 16:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by others:

Proposed remedies

NPOV disputes to the community

1) The community is directed to figure out the NPOV problems on Waterboarding, considering the guidance on general NPOV issues detailed in this case.

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Proposed. It's not the AC's job to answer the is/isn't torture question. Give that part back to us. Lawrence Cohen 16:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed, although I'm not sure why you posted an essentially contradictory proposal in the "Findings of fact" section. Walton^One 17:42, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You're referring to this one, I presume. I put forward there that it's a behavioral question, not content. Lets see what others say there. Lawrence Cohen 17:48, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by others:

Waterboarding is limited to 1rr for one year

2) For one year, beginning at the close of this arbitration case, Waterboarding, and any sub-pages are limited to 1rr for any users. Each violator may be blocked by any uninvolved admin for 24 hours, with the duration rising for subsequent violations.

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Proposed. I can't think of another way to stop edit warring beyond permanent protection and enforcing editprotected requests and demonstrated consensus for each change. While that would be a great building exercise, with no nonsense, it wouldn't be right. This sanction the edit warriors, and leave the productive good faith people alone. Lawrence Cohen 16:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by others:

Waterboarding is placed on Article Probation for one year

3) For one year, beginning at the close of this arbitration case, Waterboarding, and any sub-pages, or related pages (including User talk pages or Wikipedia space pages where Waterboarding is discussed) are on probation. Any editor performing tenditious editing, disruption, or personal attacks judged as such may be blocked by any uninvolved admin for 24 hours, with the duration rising for subsequent violations.

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Proposed. I'm begging for this. Absolutely, if not a single other thing passes from this arbitration, pass this one. Things on this article will likely further degrade and disruption to Wikipedia increase without a strong hand to stop it, as this moves closed to November 2008 and the elections. Lawrence Cohen 16:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by others:

User:Neutral Good blocked for 60 days

4) Due to his ongoing disruptive actions and tenditious editing, Neutral Good, operating under any screen name, is blocked.

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Proposed per evidence of disruptive actions and edits, repeated personal attacks, edit warring. Lawrence Cohen 16:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by others:

User:Neutral Good blocked for 90 days

5) Due to his ongoing disruptive actions and tenditious editing, Neutral Good, operating under any screen name, is blocked.

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Proposed per evidence of disruptive actions and edits, repeated personal attacks, edit warring. Lawrence Cohen 16:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by others:

User:Neutral Good blocked for 180 days

6) Due to his ongoing disruptive actions and tenditious editing, Neutral Good, operating under any screen name, is blocked.

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Proposed per evidence of disruptive actions and edits, repeated personal attacks, edit warring. Lawrence Cohen 16:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by others:

User:Neutral Good blocked for one year

7) Due to his ongoing disruptive actions and tenditious editing, Neutral Good, operating under any screen name, is blocked.

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Proposed per evidence of disruptive actions and edits, repeated personal attacks, edit warring. Lawrence Cohen 16:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by others:

User:Neutral Good is banned as a sock or meatpuppet of User:BryanFromPalatine

8) Per User:BryanFromPalatine's previous sanctions, including the Free Republic RFAR, this user is banned and his confirmed (disclosed willingly by himself) IP of 76.209.226.118 is blocked.

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Proposed. Please refer to links and evidence. Lawrence Cohen 16:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by others:

User:Shibumi2 is banned as a sock or meatpuppet of User:BryanFromPalatine

9) Per User:BryanFromPalatine's previous sanctions, including the Free Republic RFAR, this user is banned.

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Proposed. Please refer to links and evidence. Lawrence Cohen 16:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by others:

Confirmed "Bob" Sprint Wireless IPs are blocked as a sock or meatpuppet of User:BryanFromPalatine

10) Rather than do a "range" block on all of these, any of these which are confirmed to speak in this same "Bob" voice, which echoes stances as detailed in Evidence, all confirmed onces will be blocked as ban evasion by User:BryanFromPalatine.

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Proposed. Please refer to links and evidence. Lawrence Cohen 16:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by others:

209.221.240.193 is blocked as User:BryanFromPalatine (option 1)

11) Per User:BryanFromPalatine's previous sanctions, including the Free Republic RFAR, this IP is restricted from editing. There is no legitimate evidence beyond his own statements that "16,000" people use this IP. These 16,000 do not appear to use Wikipedia for editing. To prevent further disruption originating from this IP, a hard block is set on this IP indefinitely.

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Proposed. Please refer to links and evidence. Lawrence Cohen 16:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by others:

209.221.240.193 is partially blocked as User:BryanFromPalatine (option 2)

12) Per User:BryanFromPalatine's previous sanctions, including the Free Republic RFAR, this IP is restricted from editing. There is no legitimate evidence beyond his own statements that "16,000" people use this IP. These 16,000 do not appear to use Wikipedia for editing. To prevent further disruption originating from this IP, a block is indefinitely set on it preventing anonymous editing and account creation from 209.221.240.193, with an explanation of why in the block message.

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Proposed. Please refer to links and evidence. I prefer Option 2 over Option 1, above. Lawrence Cohen 16:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by others:

Proposals by Nescio (talk · contribs)

Proposed Principles

A definition of torture exists

1 Torture is defined by both US and International law.

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Propose: since apparently people think the law should not be viewed as a legal principle. Nomen Nescio^{Gnothi seauton} 17:28, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. The Arbitration Committee cannot rule on content. This is a content issue. Walton^One 17:45, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. While legal bodies may define things for their own internal purposes, that has no bearing on Wikipedia. We define things in content based on sourcing only. Lawrence Cohen 17:52, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by others:

Political arguments do not alter the legal definition of torture

2 Identifying certain acivities as possible crimes against humanity may have political consequences, i.e. Armenian genocide. This does not alter the legalities involved, nor should Wikipedia attempt to change legal concepts in favour of non-legal arguments.

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Propose: politics are important but we should let experts have the last say on how to interpret the law. Politicians and pundits cannot be used Nomen Nescio^{Gnothi seauton} 17:58, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. While it's true that Wikipedia should not attempt to change legal concepts in favour of non-legal arguments, it's a matter of opinion what constitutes a "legal concept", and I don't think torture (or, for that matter, crimes against humanity) are solely legal concepts. Furthermore, as stated above, this is a content issue and the Arbitration Committee cannot rule on content. Walton^One 17:45, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. A content issue, and Wikipedia defines things according to it's own internal policies and standards. If an article is policy compliant, external social or political ramifications from that article content are not our concern. Lawrence Cohen 17:54, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by others:

Non-experts are not a reliable source

3 The opinion of non-experts -i.e. politicians, religious leaders, pundits- cannot be used to establish consensus, or lack thereof, between experts on a given topic.

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Proposed: several topics have had claims of widespread debate, yet among experts there appears to be consensus making the topic disputed among religious and political individuals. Nomen Nescio^{Gnothi seauton} 17:36, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Both of these principles are true but irrelevant, since torture is not solely a legal concept, and thus there is no such thing as an undisputed "expert" in what constitutes torture. Furthermore, as I said above, the Arbitration Committee cannot rule on content. Determining expert consensus is a matter for the community. Walton^One 17:46, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose, but for different reasons. If a weight of sources and notable opinions exist on subject X, we can certainly make use of that under policy. Lawrence Cohen 17:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. Most politicians, such as Ted Poe and Rudolph Giuliani, are licensed attorneys and therefore experts on the law. Some so-called "pundits," such as Andrew C. McCarthy, are also licensed attorneys and therefore experts on the law. Others, such as Ron Paul, are licensed physicians and therefore experts on the medical effects of certain events. Neutral Good (talk) 19:26, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by others:

Public opinion not a reliable source

4 Invoking public opinion cannot be used to establish consensus, or lack thereof, between experts on a given topic.

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Propose: despite the fact this is considered a logical fallacy people unfortunately seem to think public opinion is a reliable way of establishing the details of a certain topic. Nomen Nescio^{Gnothi seauton} 17:36, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

See my comments above. Walton^One 17:46, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Global warming. Even if 5,000,000 people in a poll said Global Warming were "fake", that doesn't supercede all the other sourced material and opinions available. Wikipedia is not Gallup. Lawrence Cohen 17:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This statement misrepresents the argument. You aren't just establishing consensus. You're trying to dismiss the "waterboarding may not be torture" experts as WP:FRINGE. When they represent 29% of the general population, they can't be dismissed as a fringe. There's a significant dispute about the question of whether waterboarding is torture in all cases.

Comment by others:

Public opinion can be used to prevent dismissal of opinion as WP:FRINGE

When a majority of expert opinion reaches one conclusion and a minority of expert opinion reaches an opposite conclusion, public opinion may have some weight in determining whether the minority of expert opinion is a WP:FRINGE.

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Proposed. see above. Neutral Good (talk) 19:49, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by others:

Regarding WP:FRINGE

5 When 92% of sources state a certain position and 3% opposes that position the latter can be described as "ideas that depart significantly from the prevailing or mainstream view in its particular field of study."

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Propose: this is at the heart of the debate, does 3% constitute a fringe opinion? Nomen Nescio^{Gnothi seauton} 18:39, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. In this case, the 3% include Rudolph Giuliani, former US Attorney for the Southern District of New York and possibly the next president of the United States; Michael Mukasey, Attorney General of the United States; and Andrew C. McCarthy, former assistant US attorney for SDNY and now director of the Center for Law and Counterterrorism. These are very prominent legal authorities. Any one of them is worth the weight of 100 law professors. Neutral Good (talk) 19:34, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by others:

Single Source vs. Multiple Sources

When multiple experts sign a single letter or petition, or author a single article, it must be treated as one source rather than multiple sources for the purpose of determining a consensus of expert opinion.

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Propose. Here we have 115 left-wing law professors signing a form letter to the attorney general, claiming that waterboarding is torture. They are being treated as 115 separate sources and this is severely skewing the determination of expert consensus. If each of the 115 had authored a separate, published article in a law review stating that "waterboarding is torture," then they should be treated as 115 separate sources. But this is a form of astroturfing and should not be rewarded. Neutral Good (talk) 19:34, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by others:

Regarding WP:WEIGHT

6 When detailing a certain subject that has a global history of > 500 years, to take comments made after 2001 in only one country, to sway the contents of a historical view would violate "Views that are held by a tiny minority should not be represented except in articles devoted to those views. To give undue weight to a significant-minority view, or to include a tiny-minority view, might be misleading as to the shape of the dispute."

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Propose: another part of the debate. Nomen Nescio^{Gnothi seauton} 18:41, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by others:

Regarding WP:V and WP:NOR

7 To dismiss sourced information claiming the sources used are misunderstanding the subject violaates: "care should be taken not to go beyond what is expressed in the sources, or to use them in ways inconsistent with the intent of the source, such as using material out of context."

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Propose: we do not interpret and/or correct sources. The fact we consider the information incorrect is irrelevant, if it is verifiable it can be used. Nomen Nescio^{Gnothi seauton} 18:52, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by others:

Proposed findings of fact

Template

1) {text of proposed finding of fact}

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Comment by others:

Template

2) {text of proposed finding of fact}

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Comment by others:

Proposed remedies

Note: All remedies that refer to a period of time, for example to a ban of X months or a revert parole of Y months, are to run concurrently unless otherwise stated.

Template

1) {text of proposed remedy}

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Comment by others:

Template

2) {text of proposed remedy}

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Comment by others:

Proposed enforcement

Template

1) {text of proposed enforcement}

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Comment by others:

Template

2) {text of proposed enforcement}

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Comment by others:

Proposals by User:Z

Proposed Principles

Template

1) {text of proposed principle}

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Comment by others:

Template

2) {text of proposed principle}

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Comment by others:

Proposed findings of fact

Template

1) {text of proposed finding of fact}

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Comment by others:

Template

2) {text of proposed finding of fact}

Comment by Arbitrators:

Comment by parties:

Comment by others:

Proposed remedies

Note: All remedies that refer to a period of time, for example to a ban of X months or a revert parole of Y months, are to run concurrently unless otherwise stated.