Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2008 October 10

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10 October 2008

Category:Fictional_obsessive-compulsives

This is unfortunately just the latest in a series of questionable closes by Kdbank71 and one of several closes of CfDs for which the only explanation was "The result of the discussion was: delete", even where there was opposition to the close that addressed specific justifications for why the category should be retained. Multiple attempts to obtain any explanation for any of these closes was refused. As I explained at the most egregious of these CfDs, there is ample evidence of character's being described -- and defined -- as Obsessive-compulsive in reliable sources, which addresses the nominator's justification for the deletion, as well as all of the subsequent "per noms". The article "TV cop fights crime, own tics: Shalhoub is outstanding as obsessive-compulsive S.F. officer" describes Adrian Monk by his well-known defining characteristic. "Actor Tony Randall, 84, 'Odd Couple' neatnik" describes Randall as achieving his "... most enduring fame on television as Felix Unger, the obsessive-compulsive neat-freak photographer..." Frasier character Niles Crane is "diagnosed" by a professional interviewed by the Seattle Post-Intelligencer as having OCD (see "Local professionals weigh in on 'Frasier'"). The article "Desperate measures", labels Desperate Housewives character Bree Van de Kamp as fitting in this category, noting "Sure, Bree is obsessive-compulsive." These are just a handful of the reliable and verifiable independent sources that I found in a brief search that are defining the characters included in this category as "Obsessive-compulsive". Thousands of other sources are available to demonstrate that this is a defining characteristic and to place these articles so listed in this category. It is likely that there's cleanup necessary for specific entries in this category that do not have any sources available to support the claim, but that is never an excuse for deleting an entire category. No original research is needed to come to the conclusion that this is a defining characteristic that belongs as a category. As the closing admin has ignored a clear argument supporting the retention of this category, has already started deleting the category despite his own request to take this to DRV, and as no policy argument was offered in the close despite multiple requests, this close is out of Wikipedia process and should be overturned. Alansohn (talk) 17:22, 10 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

File:Roll the Dice.jpg (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) (restore | cache)|IfD|}}{{subst:[[Template:|article||article]]}})

The image is a low-res picture of a book cover. This was used to illustrate an article which discussed the book and its author, which is fair use. I spent some time explaining this on the talk page when the image was tagged but the deleting admin did not seem to read this as the deletion log indicates that he was deleting several images per minute and didn't skip a beat when he came to this one. I contacted him. His response was perfunctory and he has since been inactive. The thread has now scrolled off his talk page and so here we are. Colonel Warden (talk) 17:17, 10 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Seth Finkelstein

The article appears as a red link in my article Is Google Making Us Stupid? and so it just makes sense to resurrect this article (which I read in some log was actually quite well referenced). Finkelstein is somewhat important. Notable enough, I say. Manhattan Samurai (talk) 04:43, 10 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sure some helpful soul will incorporate this prettily into the drvlinks template above, but the previous discussions here are Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Seth Finkelstein, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Seth Finkelstein (2nd), and Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2007 December 30. My opinion is endorse deletion per the latter two, particularly Xoloz's insightful close of the deletion review. Ignoring his own articles in The Guardian (and by long consensus one's own articles don't make a journalist notable) and extraneous news hits for another guy with the same name there is no significant coverage since the last DRV, and no reasons to ignore it given by the nominator. We made the right decision here the first time; let's let this one lie. Chick Bowen 05:09, 10 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Seems a pity. Could I look at the article, anyhow?Manhattan Samurai (talk) 05:27, 10 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Could it be userified on my talk page or something? I would like to see what was previously written about Seth Finkelstein.Manhattan Samurai (talk) 05:28, 10 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Better yet, why is Wikipedia being so difficult about this particular article? Just restore it. Clearly it is bugging people that it isn't around. I am feeling quite self-righteous and may have to raise a storm in the form of an indefinite tornado to rampage against all who wish to keep this article down. It must rise up again! Leave behind your former silliness and endorse an overturn! Thank you. Good day.Manhattan Samurai (talk) 06:17, 10 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy close no process issues raised, no new information presented (substantive of otherwise), just not liking or disagreeing with the outcome is not a DRV matter. --82.7.39.174 (talk) 06:29, 10 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I don't understand. Didn't I explain that it is a red link in an article I recently wrote so therefore shouldn't this article be written? Yet I have discovered that it was written... and has had a vigorous AfD and DRV debate. It seems like eventually you have to give in, right? Wikipedia is supposed to be a source of information but in this case they seem to be hiding the information behind some kind of deletion server. I would like to read the article (as would many others I'm guessing) so let's restore it, please. Thank you.Manhattan Samurai (talk) 07:54, 10 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've userfied it to User:Manhattan Samurai/Seth Finkelstein. I think this can be closed now. Stifle (talk) 10:51, 10 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Endorse deletion, restore original to article space, and delete everything. The community has previously decided to honor the subject's request to not have an article, and nominator here has given us no reason to overturn the prior consensus. More generally, this was not an article that should have been userfied - it should at most have been emailed to the requestor. GRBerry 13:30, 10 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Close - The last DRV was clear as to what was needed to restore this article. Referring to the 2007 December 30 DRV, the DRV closer wrote:
The consensus below simply does not favor restoration of this article. The question of the subject's "borderline notability" is one that may be reopened should additional sources come to light, but there is no agreement below that the sources presented refute the "borderline notability" conclusion reached at AfD. In contrast to some other BLP deletions (where people must make presumptions on the subject's behalf) this DRV is visited by the gentleman himself, forcefully arguing for his own anonymity. It is a good thing for editors to remain vigilant, and concerned with striking a "balance of interests" in applying WP:BLP. The subject does not own the article bearing his name, and never exercises an absolute veto over its existence. Any "courtesy deletion" of a "borderline notable" person should be taken with utmost care and consideration, weighing both the privacy rights of the individual and the encyclopedia's duty to chronicle every notable truth. The consensus below is that, in this case, due consideration was given, and the right result reached.

Basically, a DRV requesting to recreate this topic as an article needs to include (1) a list of additional sources not in the deleted article and (2) a statement addressing the "balance of interests" and why that balance favors recreate this topic as an article. Feel free to post a new DRV meeting these requirements. -- Suntag ☼ 15:10, 10 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Fine, it just looks a little strange being the only red link in an article I'm working on. But I see the writer (or whatever he is, because I don't really know, which is why I would've liked to read the article) has actually lobbied to have his article deleted.Manhattan Samurai (talk) 15:54, 10 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

comment Not endorsing at all on this article since I still disagree strongly with the original deletion. I will however note that I have been keeping careful track of Seth's appearances in the media since the deletion and none of them are significant enough for me to be able to honestly argue that the situation has changed in that regard. We may wish to reconsider the previous DRV and see if the consensus is that same as it was previously. Simply endorsing deletion due to a previous consensus is less than helpful. I've incidentally taken the liberty of letting Seth know about this discussion. JoshuaZ (talk) 16:57, 10 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, we should do that. Isn't it crazy that we are not allowed to cover Seth Finkelstein? It is censorship... and really, Finkelstein will just have to get used to the fact that he has a Wikipedia article. We are now in the dark about who Finkelstein is and what he has been doing, yet he continues to write about important issues. I believe Finkelstein is afraid that we may peg his positions on certain issues, but frankly, we have a right to that knowledge. And now he is tangentially involved in a discussion about the magazine article Is Google Making Us Stupid? where knowing something about his positions might be useful, but still there is a refusal to create an article about him. Why are we biting this bullet?Manhattan Samurai (talk) 17:39, 10 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]