Talk:Yankee Stadium (1923)

Check out "What links here" for some major ideas for enriching this entry. Wetman 22:25, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)

It would be great to have a nice photo of the exterior.--Pharos 04:01, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Right field

I challenge the notion that the shortness of the right field area was not intentional. When the Stadium was first built, the upper deck did not extend into the outfield, and the bleachers in the right field area were very wide. The architects could have made the entire right field area quite a bit deeper without much trouble, and without creating a Fenway-type wall. Oddly enough, when they extended the upper deck around and rebuilt the lower deck in the late 1930s, they actually made right field somewhat more spacious than it had been previously. Also, the plot of land is not a triangle, it's actually five-sided... and although I don't know with absolute certainty, I think the dog-leg street behind home and the third base side was added as part of the design of the Stadium. I think they had plenty of flexibility, and went with a design that suited their purposes. Wahkeenah 07:10, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

Right field was shorter by necessity of design. One can look at the stadium and see that the field could easily be made symetrical. However, that is the current stadium. In the original 1920's design, where right center was 490 feet, a symetrical outfield fence wouldn't fit in the stadium. It would slide under the tracks for the 4 train. Even in the stadium before the most recent change, a symetrical field would allow for less room for seating than you can find between the outfield fence and the retired numbers.

And no, it's not a perfect triangle, but it's not regular enough to be called "pentagonal". It has three predominant sides, with two smaller ones that look like someone clipped two corners off the triangle.

Silent Wind of Doom 22:45, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

I didn't say it was a pentagon, I said it was five-sided. And they could have made right field deeper had they chosen to. They knew what they were doing. Wahkeenah 22:56, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Looking at the photo I posted today, there was even more room than I had recalled. It's the right field upper deck that's the constraint, primarily. Wahkeenah 22:43, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Now, hold on a second. That is a sideways picture, and it is difficult to determine. However, upon close inspection, and when put against aerial diagrams, it is obvious that a green monster type wall would have been necessary. There is a site which makes aerial diagrams of baseball stadiums, and here is the one for the original Yankee Stadium. Next to it, is the stadium if the field were symmetrical (not figuring a center field dimension, and all that). The black line is where the outer wall of the stadium would be.

File:YankeeStadium1923.gif File:YankeeStadium1923Symmetrical.GIF

To get the maximum crowd, and this stadium was built to handle the crowds Ruth was bringing in, they would have to shorten left field to fit in left field stands. Otherwise, all those seats would just be a wall in deep center. You can see it in the picture too, if you look closely. While things may have worked out well for Ruth, it's a design problem.

--Silent Wind of Doom 04:25, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

That would have made it "the Big Pear". :) The diagram to the left shows that there was at least a diamond's-width (90 feet) of stands in right, and you know from the photo (and can infer from the diagram) that there was extra room between the back of the right-corner bleachers and the street. It was 295 to right in Ruth's day (at least that's what was posted in the corner) and that makes it at least 385 to the back of that bleacher, probably well over 400. Plus it was 350 to that first exit in right center (or at least it was marked that way), with another 90 feet or so behind it. There was no compelling constraint to make them shorten the right field area, they simply chose to do it. They could have had a normal right field area, and still had room for bleachers that were at least as wide as those below the scoreboard. They could have put up a "green monster" spite fence (like they have in RCF now) if they had wanted to, and it would have been well out of play. I don't question that they were maximizing the crowds. But they didn't have to build right field short, they did it on purpose. There were discussions about it even at the time, with some magazines comparing the two ballparks and the home run area in right. It was not lost on the baseball audience at all, that this park was tailor-made for Ruth... maybe not quite as cozy as the Polo Grounds, but still generous to a left-hand pull hitter with power, like Ruth. It's like with the Giants current ballpark, which was tailor-made for Barry Bonds. Same deal. Conscious choice on the part of the designers. Now, having said all that, it's worth pointing out that there were other parks that were good for left-hand sluggers: Baker Bowl, League Park, etc. But those were from the dead-ball days. By the time the Yankees starting building their stadium, home runs were becoming a big deal. They knew what they were doing. Wahkeenah 05:20, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

You erased the facts and put back a false interpretation, which clearly belies the photo as well as the diagram you yourself cited. Wahkeenah 05:38, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Separate article for New Yankee Stadium?

I propose that a separate article is made for the new stadium. Just because it will have the same name doesn't mean it belongs in the article of the current stadium.

The New Mets Stadium has its own article, and in fact will be built closer to Shea than the new Yankees park.

Someone keeps on copying and pasting a long article on the new stadium, with an anti-stadium slant at the end of this article. All of that information is in the article for New Yankee Stadium, yet the same person keeps on posting it here anyway. Can you please stop or at least state your reasoning on this talk page?

I suggest that users of Wikipedia who are not aware of the plans for a new Yankee Stadium will not search for "New Yankee Stadium" so they will remain ignorant of what the plan calls for. I maintain that it would be inacurrate to have a page for "New Yankee Stadium" as there isn't a "New Yankee Stadium," only a "Proposed New Yankee Stadium." It would be accurate to have a page titled "Plans for a New Yankee Stadium." For those Yankee fans who want information on Yankee Stadium, current and proposed, should be able to find it under "Yankee Stadium." This is the correct place for it. It is disingenious to say that this information is accessable to users under "New Yankee Stadium", when there is no link to such a page. I submit that the above holds true for the proposed Mets Stadium (a "New Mets Stadium" does not exist at this juncture). I disagree with the previous poster above: there is no anti-stadium slant at the end of this article. If the previous poster finds such a slant, it is suggested that the previous poster edit it out. [anon-user]

• For consistency with other articles, such as the way Busch Stadium was handled, a brief mention and a link to the New Yankee Stadium should be sufficient. If the project is abandoned, you can always kill the link and the article.
• Articles for future stadiums and arenas have their place on Wikipedia, even if they ultimately don't happen. The section for West Side Stadium is a perfect example. The proposal failed, but it is a record worth keeping, as it tells the history of the stadium and the events that killed it. The bulk of this new stadium project should be on a separate page, with only a brief mention of the plan on the main Yankee Stadium page.

I am the second poster who feels that the info on the stadium proposal should be included on the Yankee Stadium page. Now a word by the author of the piece the first guy finds so offensive:

For starters, I intentionally refer to it as "new stadium," not "new Yankee Stadium." Yankee Stadium already exists. It has since 1923. Tearing it down and building anew results in a completely different structure with no historical significance. The name "Yankee Stadium" means something; it's used for the most famous sports facility in U.S. history. Appropriating it for a replica is misleading and inaccurate. I'm trying (futilely, I admit) to retain the words "Yankee Stadium" to apply only to the building by that name. The Yankees, on the other hand, are trying to make the words a separate brand. Since this new stadium does not actually exist with a name outside it that says "Yankee Stadium," I feel it's perfectly approprate to use a generic moniker. The Yankees use the term "new Yankee Stadium" because it implies that we can tear down Yankee Stadium without losing it. That's not true. It may sound subtle, but it's not to me, in part because I work with words for a living. Think about the words "Madison Square Garden." They don't really apply to a building. How could they: The stadium with that name today is number four by that name, and number five may be on its way. Few people alive today know anything about Madison Square Garden--the building demolished in 1890 or its same-site replacement, demolished in 1925. By misusing the name, the businesses that use the facility have been able to establish that those buildings don't matter today. Generations from now, the Yankees will have relegated Yankee Stadium to the same verbal dust heap.

Beyond that, I don't buy the logic of breaking it into a separate article. As I said, like it or not, at the present time there is only one building. Years from now, assuming this stadium comes to fruition, there will be a need to have separate articles for separate stadiums. One stadium, one article.

As a trained journalist, I take issue with being accused of writing an antistadium piece. I could have easily done that, but didn't. A biased piece would have no credibility. I pointed out that the mayor and other elected officials say that everyone--the neighborhood, the city, the taxpayers--will benefit from a new stadium. I mentioned that the borough president says the new parks will be better than the current park. I explain the city's fears over the Yankees' leaving the Bronx or New York altogether. What makes my article different from those we've read in most newspapers is that I also explain the opposing view: Are the replacement parks of equal value? Will this harm the neighborhood long after construction is completed? I absolutely did not "create" a controversy where none previously existed. Opposition to this stadium is just as fierce as it was for the Jets' stadium. Two differences: One is that Cablevision doesn't care about this stadium. Put another way, you won't see commercials on television opposing the Yankees' stadium project because its opponents don't have nearly the money that Cablevision does. Second: This proposal involves a private business annexing a large swath of public parkland. The brazen assumption that a public park is just another undeveloped tract of real estate is unprecented in New York City. My article presents the opinions of the Yankees and elected officials. But it also presents the opposing viewpoint and considers the consequences of the project, things left out of most news accounts. Perhaps the bias lies with the news organizations who have presented only the Yankees' point of view.

Finally, the replacement articles that have been offered are inaccurate. It says the stadium will cost $800, which is not true. It says the taxpayers will be responsible only for "infrastructure," which is a blatant lie. Those are figures put forth by the Yankees to make their stadium sound more palatable. Isn't citing environmental impact statements and presenting both interpretations of it more accurate than just telling people the Yankees' side of the story?

• The previous poster said, "As I said, like it or not, at the present time there is only one building." However, while this building might not exist yet, the proposal to construct it does exist. This is no secret, being a major topic in the media. It's not neccesarily a 'New Yankee Stadium' as much as it is a 'new stadium to replace Yankee Stadium'. This does not belong on the main Yankee Stadium, as this stadium proposal is not part of a renovation to Yankee Stadium, but a completley separate structure that is NOT Yankee Stadium, although it may share a name with it.

I request the Wikipedia commmunity to broker a peaceful end to this stalemate.

The journalist also said "The Yankees use the term "new Yankee Stadium" because it implies that we can tear down Yankee Stadium without losing it. That's not true. It may sound subtle, but it's not to me, in part because I work with words for a living. Think about the words "Madison Square Garden." They don't really apply to a building. How could they: The stadium with that name today is number four by that name, and number five may be on its way." It is a very fine point. If Wikipedia had been around when all these MSGs were being planned and built, would Wikipedia have pages such as "New Madison Square Garden", "Son of New Madison Square Garden", "New New New Madison Square Garden"? Until there is a new Yankee Stadium, the rightful place for information on the plans to construct one is on the Yankee Stadium page. I also call for the Wikipedia community to broker a peaceful end to this and in the meantime request that you cease in deleting information on the plan to tear down Yankee Stadium from the Yankee Stadium page!

• One of my problems with that article you keep on putting back is that it is too long. I have no problem with one to two paragraphs, tops.

About Madison Square Garden, it is an events promotion company before it is an arena, and therefore fits into one article. The stadium that they are planning to build next door to Yankee Stadium is a separate structure, and belongs on its own page.

There are many articles on Wikipedia about future events, including stadiums and other buildings yet to be built. Using your logic, the Freedom Tower doesn't deserve its own page, but ONLY belongs on the World Trade Center page.

• It's fairly obvious that the writer's real motive is anger over Yankee Stadium being targeted for demolition. I felt the same way about the "New Comiskey Park", but that didn't change the reality. There should be a brief mention on this page and a link to a separate article, for consistency with other situations such as Busch Stadium and U.S. Cellular Field. Wahkeenah 17:18, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

You say your reason for putting this info on a separate page is that it is too long. Well, is the section on Monument Park too long? Should it be on a separate page? You say the author's motive is anger over the demolition of the Yankee Stadium. I say does it matter what his motive is, if the entry is accurate? Doesn't someone interested in the stadium deserve to find the information they find relevant? I say your reason for putting this info on a separate page is to obscure reality from fans. I say this: edit the longer entry so that it portrays the controversy on the issue and then direct the reader to the page you are so keen on. That to me is a fair compromise. But the fluff you offer doesn't cut it. User:BoogieDown 22:44, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

• Your response fairly much proves that you are repeating the info on this page, particularly the "controversy" part, in order to prove a point or to push a point of view. Truth to tell, wikipedia is not going to have any influence on what the Grand Pooh-Bahs in New York City decide to do (or not) about a replacement for Yankee Stadium. Wahkeenah 22:58, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Doesn't matter in the least. Information wants to be free.

• I have made an effort of compromise. Instead of putting back what BoogieDown called "fluff", I took elements from both New Stadium articles and summarized them into a 3 paragraph article, highlighting the major points of the Stadium and the campaign against it. Personally, I have mixed feelings about the new stadium plan. I hope this ends the arguement that the formerly brief mention did not say enough and that the longer version was not only too long, but was too opinionated. What I still believe, however, is that the bulk of the details belong on the New Yankee Stadium page, which i have noticed has not had much work done to it.

I have a very very serious problem with you characterizing the "longer version" as being too opinionated when the writer of the piece, as a professional journalist, made every effort to delete opinion and leave only facts. Not only was it not too opinionated, it was not opinionated. You can't argue with facts. And I challenge you to dredge up a statement from the longer piece which is not a fact. So I will edit your new shorter piece when I have a chance. In the meantime I will allow your revision to stand.

• At least you are willing to compromise. Peace to our wiki-society. Now to concentrate on better things like ensuring that Robinson Cano is voted in as the All Star second baseman!
  • And it's extraordinarily generous of that one user to "allow" your revision to stand, don'cha think? Wahkeenah 01:10, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Yankee stadium

In the section on college football games played at Yankee Stadium: The Nov. 28, 1963 Thanksgiving game between Notre Dame and Syracuse was originally scheduled for that date. Notre Dame's Nov. 23, 1963 game with Iowa in Iowa City was cancelled. Also the final score of that Thanksgiving game was Syracuse 14, Notre Dame 7.

Oh my god, who really cares!!! God of Chaos 00:55, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, you cared enough to comment on it. >:) Wahkeenah 01:49, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

World Series at Yankee Stadium

1. Removed some superflous language that did not conform to nPOV. 2. Removed the list of Yankees World Series wins "on the road." Better suited to the Yankees article, as they have nothing to do with the stadium.

Separate article for Monument Park?

I suggest a separate article for Monument Park, since there is a lot of information that will be relevant for both Yankee Stadium and New Yankee Stadium. Plus, it would make the Yankee Stadium article a bit smaller. What do you think?

Milchama 17:31, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

• A brief mention in the article with a link to this new article, with photos of the monuments and the history of the monuments, etc. That could work. Wahkeenah 22:28, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Facade vs Frieze

Is the frieze above Yankee Stadium officially called The Facade? It's a frieze, and when the Yankees unvieled designs for the new stadium, they stressed it was a frieze.

I do like the edits on the distinguishing characteristics section, but the mention of the "facade" as a frieze at the end of the description cheapens it. Milchama 11:09, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

The fans refer to it as the Facade. The broadcasters refer to it as the Facade. Originally, the word Frieze was used in the whole section and it was briefly mentioned that it is mistakenly refered to as the Facade. It's like calling Ty Cobb "Tyrus" though the whole article and mentioning once that people call him "Ty". "The Facade" is definitely used more prominantly, and has pretty much become the name of it. It is used almost unanimously, and so it should be the prominant term. I just kept the statement of the mention as a frieze so as not to offend the original writer. It seems a fair compromise, and keeps the truth about the facade without unduly confusing someone who doesn't know this information.

Silent Wind of Doom 17:22, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

It's a frieze, not a facade. With the new stadium, the Yankees are making an effort to correct years of people incorrectly calling it a facade. "Facade" is not a nickname like Ty is for Mr. Cobb.

213.219.31.34 17:51, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

"The Facade" is basically a nickname. It's what everyone calls it, and the name it is most known as. We'll see in the future if it will be called "the frieze" in the new stadium, but unless this causes a huge change in the way people see it, it seems that it will always be called "The Facade" in respects to the current stadium. The quotes around "Facade" in the title of the section seems a bit much. Do we really need it, when the distinction between frieze and facade is made? The fact is even given it's own paragraph, rather than buried in the middle or end of a large one.

Silent Wind of Doom 20:28, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Numbers in Monument Park?

The entrance to the small area around the flagpole that holds the plaques and monuments has always been marked with the words "Welcome to Monument Park". If you take an official tour at Yankee Stadium, your tour guide announces, after passing the retired numbers, that you are about to enter Monument Park. In fact, our last guide said that were were going to go now to Monument Park, but would first pass the retired numbers. I have never heard the numbers referred to as part of Monument Park. Has anyone? Silent Wind of Doom 17:22, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Since they moved the walls in, the retired numbers became a part of Monument Park. The entrance to Monument Park is at the end of the left field seats, not AFTER the retired numbers. 213.219.31.34 17:49, 24 August 2006 (UTC)