Talk:J. M. G. Le Clézio and The Paltry Nude Starts on a Spring Voyage: Difference between pages

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'''"The Paltry Nude Starts on a Spring Voyage"''' is a poem from [[Wallace Stevens]]'s first book of poetry, [[Harmonium_%28poetry_collection%29|Harmonium]]. It was first published in the 1919, so it is in the public domain of people.<ref>Buttel, p. 120</ref> There is general agreement that it is indebted to [[Sandro_Botticelli|Botticelli's]] ''The Birth of Venus'', though there is some/major uncertainty about the nature of the debt.
{{WPBiography
{| align=right border=1 cellpadding=2 cellspacing=2 style="margin-left:1em" style="margin-bottom:1em"
|living=yes
|- align=left style="background:lightyellow"
|class=C
|'''&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;The Paltry Nude Starts on a Spring Voyage'''<p>
|priority=high
&nbsp;But not on a shell, she starts,<br>
|a&e-work-group=yes
&nbsp;Archaic, for the sea.<br>
}}
&nbsp;But on the first-found weed<br>
{{WikiProject France|class=C}}
&nbsp;She scuds the glitters,<br>
&nbsp;Noiselessly, like one more wave.<br><br>
&nbsp;She too is discontent<br>
&nbsp;And would have purple stuff upon her arms,<br>
&nbsp;Tired of the salty harbors,<br>
&nbsp;Eager for the brine and bellowing<br>
&nbsp;Of the high interiors of the sea.<br><br>
&nbsp;The wind speeds her on,<br>
&nbsp;Blowing upon her hands<br>
&nbsp;And watery back.<br>
&nbsp;She touches the clouds, where she goes<br>
&nbsp;In the circle of her traverse of the sea.<br><br>
&nbsp;Yet this is meagre play<br>
&nbsp;In the scrurry and water-shine<br>
&nbsp;As her heels foam ---<br>
&nbsp;Not as when the goldener nude<br>
&nbsp;Of a later day<br><br>
&nbsp;Will go, like the centre of sea-green pomp,<br>
&nbsp;In an intenser calm,<br>
&nbsp;Scullion of fate,<br>
&nbsp;Across the spick torrent, ceaselessly,<br>
&nbsp;Upon her irretrievable way.
|}
Helen Vendler takes it as obvious that the poem is about "our impoverished American Venus, who has none of the trappings of Botticelli's [[Venus_%28mythology%29|Venus]], but who will eventually accumulate aura and mythological fullness through new American art."<ref>Vendler, p. 82</ref> She dismisses the English poet [[Craig Raine]]'s identification of the paltry nude with a sailboat. ("The nude is, one guesses, a sailing boat....Later, the ship will be weather-beaten, a goldener nude, and will eventually sink."<ref>Raines, p. 66; quoted in Vendler, pp. 81-82</ref>) That only confirms that "the English incomprehension of Stevens continues almost unabated", she acidly remarks, conceding that [[Frank Kermode]] is the exception that proves the rule). She might concede that the "archaic" one of the first two lines is foam-arisen [[Aphrodite]], who the paltry nude is not, but might well disapprove of the suggestion that the one who "scuds the glitters" is the American Venus (reduced to scudding on a weed) and that "the goldener nude" is Botticelli's Venus.


Ronald Sukenic declares with equal certainty that "the nude is an emblematic figure of spring. There is a comparison between spring, in the first part of the poem, and a similar figure representing summer, in the latter part. Thus spring is 'paltry,' particularly early spring, spring at the start of her voyage, as compared with the fullness of summer described later on."<ref>Sukenic, p. 37</ref> He also declares that the correct word is "scurry," not the "scrurry" of the Collected Poems as reproduced here. (Ibid.)
Is the following relevant? "The island came under British rule in 1810, settlers being allowed to retain their property and the use of the [[French language]] while claiming the [[British nationality]]." Sounds like useless British flag waving. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/193.132.242.1|193.132.242.1]] ([[User talk:193.132.242.1|talk]]) 13:23, 9 October 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
=== Notes ===
<references />
=== References ===
<ul>
<li>Buttel, R. ''Wallace Stevens: The Making of Harmonium''. 1967: Princeton University Press.
<li>Raine, Craig. ''Encounter'' 53 (November 1079).
<li>Sukenic, Ronald. ''Wallace Stevens: Musing the Obscure.'' 1967: New York University Press.
<li>Vendler, Helen. ''Words Chosen Out Of Desire''. 1984: University of Tennessee Press.
</ul>


[[Category:Poetry by Wallace Stevens]]
A list of works translated into English might be of value [[Special:Contributions/68.198.179.131|68.198.179.131]] ([[User talk:68.198.179.131|talk]]) 13:36, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
*Exactly!! We really need one! Do one!! [[Special:Contributions/85.1.150.244|85.1.150.244]] ([[User talk:85.1.150.244|talk]]) 13:40, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

The New York Times article says that 12 of his books have been translated into English. The Nobel site seems to list all of the English lanmguage ones embedded in an article. I cannot distill the list today; perhaps someone else can? [[User:MKohut|MKohut]] ([[User talk:MKohut|talk]]) 14:44, 9 October 2008 (UTC)


Mauritian should be capitalized in the first line, I think. [[User:MKohut|MKohut]] ([[User talk:MKohut|talk]]) 14:07, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

He is attractive. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/76.113.150.171|76.113.150.171]] ([[User talk:76.113.150.171|talk]]) 15:32, 9 October 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Mauritian nationality ==

I grew up in the Indian Ocean and I've always been told than Mauritian government deoesn't accept double nationality. Could somebody check if he really holds mauritian nationality ?[[User:Mitch1981|Mitch1981]] ([[User talk:Mitch1981|talk]]) 16:57, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

: It was added again and I removed it. I think it shouldn't be there, until a source is found which claims he holds Mauritian citizenship. [[User:Bogdangiusca|bogdan]] ([[User talk:Bogdangiusca|talk]]) 10:08, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
::Korean sources say that he has double citizenship, but English/French source are indispensable for the claim.--[[User:Caspian blue|Caspian blue]] ([[User talk:Caspian blue|talk]]) 13:32, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:::I added the reference. http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2008/oct/10/nobelprize-france --[[User:Caspian blue|Caspian blue]] ([[User talk:Caspian blue|talk]]) 13:42, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

: The "Mauritius Times" says he is a "fellow citizen"...but one wonders if they confirmed for the present?
http://www.mauritiustimes.com/101008soobarah.htm [[User:MKohut|MKohut]] ([[User talk:MKohut|talk]]) 17:39, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

"I belong to the Breton nation" http://www.agencebretagnepresse.com/fetch.php?id=12477&title=Le%20Cl%C3%A9zio%20:%20I%20belong%20to%20the%20Breton%20nation. [[User:MKohut|MKohut]] ([[User talk:MKohut|talk]]) 17:51, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

== Äntligen! ==

The Wikipedia site traffic for Jean-Marie Gustave Le Clézio's English-language entry in [http://stats.grok.se/en/200809/Jean-Marie%20Gustave%20Le%20Cl%C3%A9zio September 2008], during which it averaged 25-35 views per day, is in sharp contrast to the traffic in early [http://stats.grok.se/en/200810/Jean-Marie_Gustave_Le_Cl%C3%A9zio October 2008]. Suddenly, lots of people seemed very interested in what was here. Page viewership shot up to 108 views on October 3rd, 85 views on October 4th, 125 views on October 5th, 281 views on October 6th, 147 views on October 7th, and 248 views on October 8th.... The prize was announced early on October 9th and precipitated hundreds of edits (and many tens of thousands of views, though that number isn't in yet).

So who says Nobel committee decisions don't leak?

Until the traffic spike which began six days before the Nobel Prize announcement, it was a very low-traffic article. While page editing can sometimes increase page viewership numbers on a specific day (as the same person renews the page over and over again), no edits whatsoever were made between September 12th and October 9th, the morning of the Nobel announcement. &mdash; [[User:AssataShakur|AssataShakur]] ([[User talk:AssataShakur|talk]]) 19:42, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

: There was lots of buzz about a Le Clezio Nobel, so I'm not surprised about the increased traffic. I wouldn't necessarily attribute it to a formal leak.
: On another note, does anyone know where in the US he taught? [[User:Cjs2111|Cjs2111]] ([[User talk:Cjs2111|talk]]) 20:19, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

::Can you provide any links to that buzz? Otherwise, 'buzz' means 'leak'.... (But come to think of it, the Nobel buzz has sometimes been wrong. Remember all the talk about Adonis? Joyce Carol Oates? Do they leak multiple names?)

: Re "leak". On October 3, 2008--the day the views 'shot up' on wikipedia is the day a Dubai newspaper, The Khaajeel Times
published a Nobel prediction, quoting some Swedish publishers, that it would be Le Clezio. So, either they created some
"educated guess' buzz or that seems to be where the leak was leaked. [[User:MKohut|MKohut]] ([[User talk:MKohut|talk]]) 17:34, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

::The AP reported that "Le Clezio has taught at universities in Bangkok; Mexico City; Boston; Austin, Texas and Albuquerque, N.M., among other places," citing an academy source. &mdash; [[User:AssataShakur|AssataShakur]] ([[User talk:AssataShakur|talk]]) 20:35, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

: he taught French at the University of New Mexico. http://www.agencebretagnepresse.com/fetch.php?id=12477&title=Le%20Cl%C3%A9zio%20:%20I%20belong%20to%20the%20Breton%20nation [[User:MKohut|MKohut]] ([[User talk:MKohut|talk]]) 17:54, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

==Important books==
Are there any books of his that are particularly good/important/lauded? It'd be useful for the article, not to mention that having never heard of him before the Nobel, I might want to read one. [[User:Zafiroblue05|zafiroblue05]] | [[User talk:Zafiroblue05|Talk]] 05:46, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

:The permanent secretary of the academy, Horace Engdahl, recommended Révolutions as a first book, perhaps that would be a good place to start? [[Special:Contributions/194.237.142.7|194.237.142.7]] ([[User talk:194.237.142.7|talk]]) 06:34, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Désert and Le chercheur d'or are considered his two most important accessible novels among French readers. The second one is particularly interesting because it has a lot on the Mauritius part of his background. Those two books would be a good place to start. --[[User:Xuxl|Xuxl]] ([[User talk:Xuxl|talk]]) 15:09, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

"The Flood" is an apocalyptic or post-apocalyptic novel. "The Road" underwater, so to very stretchingly allude.[[User:MKohut|MKohut]] ([[User talk:MKohut|talk]]) 17:53, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

I have seen newspaper article references to "over 30 books", "over 40 books" AND "over 50 books" written. ??? Guess we should confirm somehow. [[User:MKohut|MKohut]] ([[User talk:MKohut|talk]]) 17:57, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Revision as of 17:57, 10 October 2008

"The Paltry Nude Starts on a Spring Voyage" is a poem from Wallace Stevens's first book of poetry, Harmonium. It was first published in the 1919, so it is in the public domain of people.[1] There is general agreement that it is indebted to Botticelli's The Birth of Venus, though there is some/major uncertainty about the nature of the debt.

   The Paltry Nude Starts on a Spring Voyage

 But not on a shell, she starts,
 Archaic, for the sea.
 But on the first-found weed
 She scuds the glitters,
 Noiselessly, like one more wave.

 She too is discontent
 And would have purple stuff upon her arms,
 Tired of the salty harbors,
 Eager for the brine and bellowing
 Of the high interiors of the sea.

 The wind speeds her on,
 Blowing upon her hands
 And watery back.
 She touches the clouds, where she goes
 In the circle of her traverse of the sea.

 Yet this is meagre play
 In the scrurry and water-shine
 As her heels foam ---
 Not as when the goldener nude
 Of a later day

 Will go, like the centre of sea-green pomp,
 In an intenser calm,
 Scullion of fate,
 Across the spick torrent, ceaselessly,
 Upon her irretrievable way.

Helen Vendler takes it as obvious that the poem is about "our impoverished American Venus, who has none of the trappings of Botticelli's Venus, but who will eventually accumulate aura and mythological fullness through new American art."[2] She dismisses the English poet Craig Raine's identification of the paltry nude with a sailboat. ("The nude is, one guesses, a sailing boat....Later, the ship will be weather-beaten, a goldener nude, and will eventually sink."[3]) That only confirms that "the English incomprehension of Stevens continues almost unabated", she acidly remarks, conceding that Frank Kermode is the exception that proves the rule). She might concede that the "archaic" one of the first two lines is foam-arisen Aphrodite, who the paltry nude is not, but might well disapprove of the suggestion that the one who "scuds the glitters" is the American Venus (reduced to scudding on a weed) and that "the goldener nude" is Botticelli's Venus.

Ronald Sukenic declares with equal certainty that "the nude is an emblematic figure of spring. There is a comparison between spring, in the first part of the poem, and a similar figure representing summer, in the latter part. Thus spring is 'paltry,' particularly early spring, spring at the start of her voyage, as compared with the fullness of summer described later on."[4] He also declares that the correct word is "scurry," not the "scrurry" of the Collected Poems as reproduced here. (Ibid.)

Notes

  1. ^ Buttel, p. 120
  2. ^ Vendler, p. 82
  3. ^ Raines, p. 66; quoted in Vendler, pp. 81-82
  4. ^ Sukenic, p. 37

References

  • Buttel, R. Wallace Stevens: The Making of Harmonium. 1967: Princeton University Press.
  • Raine, Craig. Encounter 53 (November 1079).
  • Sukenic, Ronald. Wallace Stevens: Musing the Obscure. 1967: New York University Press.
  • Vendler, Helen. Words Chosen Out Of Desire. 1984: University of Tennessee Press.