User talk:Ran

Hello, welcome to Wikipedia. Here's some tips:

• You can introduce yourself on the new users page.
• You can sign your name using three tildes, like ~~~. If you use four, you can add a datestamp too.
• Remember to use the show preview button before you save a page.
• If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my talk page.
• If you would like to assign the edits you made before you got an account to your username, see assigning those to your username.

Other useful pages are: how to edit, how to write a great article, naming conventions, manual of style and the Wikipedia policies.

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Angela. 04:16, Apr 4, 2004 (UTC)

---

Ran, I'm still hoping you'll expand on your exposition of Singlish grammar (as you started to do in talk comments that you edited afterwards). Martijn faassen 22:13, 16 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply on User_talk:Martijn faassen, and good luck with your finals! Martijn faassen 23:55, 16 Apr 2004 (UTC)

And a "me too" regarding Singlish -- truly excellent work! Jpatokal 06:55, 22 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I just saw your awesome edits to Singlish, thank you very much! Martijn faassen 19:57, 22 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Hehe, thanks! ;) ran 20:05, Apr 22, 2004 (UTC)

---

Ran, thanks for the additions to Nerchinsk Treaty stub. However, I reverted your change of "Priamurye" to "Primorye". These are in fact two different regions, Priamurye being the territory along the Amur River, and Primorye being modern Primorsky Krai of Russia. The treaty covered the territory of whole Priamurye, not just Primorye. Also, I am not sure if the river's name is Aigun or Argun (the sources I worked with contradict each other). Where did you look this one up? Thanks! -Ezhiki 04:44, Apr 18, 2004 (UTC)

---

When you use Template:Msg : Chinese language, how does one edit the content of the nav-box? Can you give me the link to the page just containing the mark-up of Chinese_language so I can add or alter the contents of nav-box?

Dylanwhs 06:47, 19 May 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply in my talkpage, Ran. Dylanwhs 21:27, 19 May 2004 (UTC)

IPA

It appears that you have used the same symbol for the "r" in "ri4 ben" in place of the "r" in "yi4 diar3". They are not the same. (I'm trying to work with Margorie Chan to get a clear transliteration table worked out. There seem to be several ideas about IPA representations. So I think the final "r" is just a regular English "r." The other one is definitely the correct one for the retroflex initial. I've already cleared that up with Dr. Chan.) P0M 22:37, 19 May 2004 (UTC)

§ To make the "r" in "ri4 ben3", follow the ridge along the top of your mouth to the point where it ends. That is approximately where your tongue curls back to (retroflexes to) to make zhi, chi, shi, and ri. diagram The "r" final is not a retroflex r, nor is it like the English "r" in "rabbit." It is made with the tongue fairly relaxed, tip approximately in line with the gap between the front teeth (and it's just sort of hanging there to be out of the way). The sound actually comes from the base of the tongue approaching the uvula as the back of the mouth tightens up and the jaw closes slightly. It's the "r" in the Mid-Western English pronunciation of "bark." (Boston people are so lazy that they let the back part of their mouths stay slack, so they say "The dog was bokking all night." ;-) )

§ If you look at the NPA (National Phonetic Alphabet, zhu4 yin1 fu3 hao4, bopomofo), the symbol for "ri" is basically just the "sun" character, and the final "r" symbol is basically the simplified Chinese character for er2zi. P0M 20:29, 20 May 2004 (UTC)

§ I'm trying to figure IPA out. As far as I know, the final "r" is just written with a regular lower-case "r" glyph. It's the vowels that are driving me crazy. P0M 04:03, 21 May 2004 (UTC)

Software used for EU map

Hi there. I used the software "Paint Shop Pro" to edit the map - actually I used an old version I got free on a magazine, PSP v5 (v7 which I have here at work is nicer). In truth, any image editing program would do the same - what matters more is the techniques:

• Work at the highest resolution possible and reduce it down to size afterwards. (I used the Europe map as a basis, working at a size three times the end result)
• Add the text AFTER reduction. Text will not resize as well, so use a small text size on the finished version with anti-aliasing.

Steps I took:

1. I used simple colour replacement, changing the multi-colours on the Europe map to all grey, with just light grey countries, dark grey rivers and sea boundaries, white sea and red country divisions. I used a 2x2 pixel brush to edit out the existing captions. This was easy as there was no anti-aliasing (just 4 solid colours).
2. I changed the red boundaries to dark blue by using image-wide colour switch.
3. I filled in the EU members and candidates with colours.
4. I reduced size to 33%
5. I added the eastern map portion from the old EU map, matching up by pasting on a seperate layer and using it semi-transparently until matched.
6. I changed the colours on the eastern bit to match.

Now I had a blank map.

1. I added the country names. As it was small font size I used a clear featureless font for the EU members. (I delibrately used a less bold scriptlike font for the neighbours - not to attract attention to them but to still have a label)
2. I drew a blue box, then a white box inside it to create the other territories box.
3. I added empty interior boxes and title, laid out as I wanted.
4. I copied this to a new image and increased 300%.
5. I drew the islands and Fr. Guiana freehand using a 2x2 pixel brush and Atlas + Euro note for reference.
6. Reduced to 33% and copied into the main image.
7. Added key.

Hope this helps! I can offer you the blank EU map by email (or should I upload it to Wikipedia?)

Zoney 12:56, 21 May 2004 (UTC)

Re: Navboxes for Subdivisions of Russia

Hi Ran, The new "navboxes" you have put in on the Russian pages contain so much info that on my computer screen they are barely visible. Is it just me or is it a general problem? IZAK 02:32, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Increase font

Yes, I think if you increased the font it would help. IZAK 02:55, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Much better !

Great, now I can actually read what it says. Very impressive work that you did. IZAK 03:09, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Royal Dutch-Shell

You reported a bug about an edit missing from the history of Royal Dutch-Shell, but it looks fine to me. Can you confirm? --Brion 18:51, 28 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I've deleted the redirect for you so you can move the page. Secretlondon 01:43, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Beijing

What a positive surprise to log back in to Wikipedia at 1 AM (which is when I often do my Wiki-ing) and finding a whole load of valuable info filled in for the remaining parts of the Beijing article!

Ni xingku le! Good job, and thank you so much! :-) It is great when Wikipedians like you help out together, replenish info on Wikipedia's articles, and make not only the article, but the entire Wikipedia, great.

Xiexie ni!

--DF08 17:53, Jul 19, 2004 (UTC)

Maps

Hey, I will let you in on the secret for my maps. All I did was take some maps that statistics Canada has on their site, and changed them a bit in MS Paint, and then I added major cities and towns. All you have to do is find a good outline map, and it's simple really, if you have the patience. Earl Andrew 23:19, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Inner Mongolia/Southern Mongolia

Hello. As far as I know, the official name of the PRC's entity is "öbür mongghul-un öbertegen jasaqu orun" in (Classical) Mongolian, where

• öbür = southern (sunny side of mountain),
• mongghul = Mongol,
• -un = genitive case,
• öbertegen = autonomous,
• jasa|qu = to rule, and
• orun = region.

I don't think "Dotood Mongolyn Öörtöö Zasah Oron" is the official name. Political divisions of China uses the Cyrillic alphabet but actually its use isn't official in Inner Mongolia.

For dotood=inner v. öbür=southern, the author of my Mongolian textbooks wrote an interesting paper:

The History and the Political Character of the Name of 'Nei Menggu' (Inner Mongolia) by Huhbator Borjigin http://www.erica.demon.co.uk/IA/IA604.html --Nanshu 01:07, 7 Aug 2004 (UTC)

WikiProject Chinese Cities

Want to help me on WikiProject Chinese cities? Colipon 04:55, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Re: Comment on my talk page. Hey Ran thanks for the support. We will be dealing mostly about Prefecture-level cities yes, and the articles themselves will be quite similar to those of zhixiashi. Make sure, though, that the article deals predominantly about the urban area of the city itself and each county will have its own article. WikiProject Chinese Counties might be in the plans afterwards.

CHECK Wikipedia:WikiProject Chinese Cities Colipon 16:54, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC)

NEW: Hi Ran, where do you get the information regarding Chinese Licence Plate prefixes?

NEW: Thanks, I'll probably start an article on a list of Area Codes soon. If you want, you can develop one for the Postal codes. Colipon 17:53, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Whoa, nice sites Ran. If you can find any sites on the statistics of individual cities of anything like that it'd be great. I've checked a few but there are way too many broken links. So far I've placed a lot of reference pages on my User Page, not good enough yet though. Your help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Colipon 04:02, 11 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Yeah, it's very fortunate that you have the 《中华人民共和国行政区划简册2004》,it will be especially useful if we decide to start the project on Chinese counties. The Chinese 行政区划 site has a very limited amount of information, it does not include much about the population and area of individual counties or even cities. Until I can find something better I'll just have to stick with my sources currently listed on my Chinese user page (zh:User:Colipon). Colipon 17:28, 11 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Oh, and see Template:Beijing to see if the format if correct. Colipon 18:11, 11 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Temporary templates are at Jinan and Nanjing. Colipon 23:22, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Two things; first of all, many province articles like Shandong need desperate improvement seeing their current articles deal with little. Related to this, I am considering changing the template on the project on provinces. Second, please respond to discussions at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Chinese) for naming counties. Thanks ran. [[User:Colipon|Colipon -- (Talk)]] 03:00, 14 Aug 2004 (UTC)

NEW:Actually, now that I checked the tables on Heilongjiang, I found that the same table was not on the Shandong article. If all provincial tables looked like the one on Heilongjiang it would be good. [[User:Colipon|Colipon -- (Talk)]] 22:55, 15 Aug 2004 (UTC)

NEW: I'm not sure if I'm familiar with the adminstrative status of Shandong, but why exactly were the Prefectures removed on the Shandong template box? [[User:Colipon|Colipon -- (Talk)]] 21:52, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Actually now that I checked I'm assuming that Heze and Binzhou are both prefectural-level cities now. Okay I will modify the box to fit this standard. [[User:Colipon|Colipon -- (Talk)]] 22:02, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Ran, Thanks for your kind message. I don't know much about Jilin and Heilongjiang. As I think of things to add for Liaoning I will certainly do so. -- camcam 08:33, Aug 22, 2004 (UTC)

Asian Cup 2004

Your expertise is appreciated on Asian Cup 2004 (history), where POV has become a problem with User:Nanshu and User:TakuyaMurata. Fuzheado | Talk 02:16, 15 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Naming Conventions (Chinese)

Moved to Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Chinese)

--replied on Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Chinese). [[User:Colipon|Colipon+(T)]] 20:22, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Hey, you might want to check back to the Chinese naming conventions survey, as there's been some discussion since you last left. Basically, the survey only needs to accomodate three possibilities:

1. Using the Chinese name, wholesale, e.g. Taishan, Honghu, Hanshui. I disagree with this, because it can cause confusion between, say, Taishan the mountain and Taishan the city.
2. Using the Chinese proper name, but translating the Chinese geographical name, e.g. Mount Tai, Lake Hong, Han River. I also disagree with this, because both Hanshui and Hanjiang are translated as "Han River".
3. Using a redundant name, e.g. Mount Taishan, Lake Honghu, Hanshui River. I favor this one (just like you, apparently!) because it avoids the problems with the other two proposals just mentioned. The only downside is, well, it's redundant. I don't understand why that's such a problem, but apparently everyone else does, which is why the discussion is still going on.

-- Xiaopo ℑ 22:17, Sep 17, 2004 (UTC)

Korean -ju and -mok

Hi, Ran: Thanks for bringing this issue to light. The designation mok (as in "Gwangju-mok") came from Andrew C. Nahm's 1988 book, Korea: Tradition and Transformation - A History of the Korean People, and was definitely applied to the political division, not its governor. I did a quick search on the web just now, and other Korean web sites use mok in the same way—to designate the territorial division. Beyond that, I can't really offer an explanation for the difference, but there you have it. -Sewing - talk 14:07, 30 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Info please

Greetings Ran. A couple of nights ago I was part of a team at a quiz night where the following question was asked --"what is the capital of Singapore"? Most people answered Singapore but were marked wrong because the answer they wanted was Singapore City. Caused quite a debate. How would you have answered? Wiki's article says "Since Singapore basically consists of only one city, there are no further administrative divisions" The phrase no further administrative divisions seems to me to infer there is a body such as Singapore City Council which I guess would control the city of singapore (and thus the city would be the capital). It's not a big deal, but can you eleborate? Cheers. Moriori 23:03, Sep 17, 2004 (UTC)

Thanks Ran for your response on my talk page. I suspected that was the case. Cheers. Moriori 23:42, Sep 19, 2004 (UTC)

Naming conventions

Hey! Thanks for editing the titles, it's a lot clearer now. (I didn't really mean for option 3 to include things like "Mount Wutaishan") Incidentally, Jiang's already seen the new survey, but he's undecided between options 1 and 2 at last check. --Xiaopo ℑ 18:02, Sep 19, 2004 (UTC)

On Singapore's estates

Hi Ran. I'd like to thank you for all your good work on Wikipedia. I was just questioning the validity of one project "Major Estates and Neighbourhoods of Singapore" -- I don't know if you are the initiator of it, but is it really that necessary, do you think? I was going through the wisdom of it. As you know, Singapore is no bigger than any major city in China or anyway else in the world, and to do such a minutae guide to its housing estates is really wringing little from practically nothing. As it stands the series is pretty unuseful. My take is that a generalized article on the major housing in Singapore would be much more useful, but I seriously don't know where to take the debate to. What do you think? Mandel 01:51, Sep 30, 2004 (UTC)

Nice Map-making

Just saw the new map of Shanghai that's been desperately lacking. It looks great! Very refined and clean. An excellent work you've done! --Menchi 17:17, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Thanks, Menchi. :) -- [[User:Ran|ran (talk)]] 17:21, Oct 10, 2004 (UTC)

Requests for comment Shorne

A few of us are talking about doing a RfC regarding Shorne. Before we can do that we must pass this threshold:

"Before listing any user conduct dispute here, at least two people must try to resolve the same issue by talking with the person on his or her talk page or the talk pages involved in the dispute. The two users must document and certify their efforts when listing the dispute. If the listing is not certified within 48 hours of listing, it will be deleted."

If you feel that any issues exist with respect to his edits, please enter into a dialogue on User talk:Shorne and see how much progress we can make through negotiation. Fred Bauder 19:04, Oct 10, 2004 (UTC)