Talk:Free Hugs Campaign

Who is Juan Mann?

The article makes several mentions of him, but it never says who he is. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.118.89.72 (talk) 11:06, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

I just came here to say the same thing! PLease explain.--65.92.124.188 (talk) 15:21, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

This page is about the Free Hugs Campaign. Juan chooses to not speak of himself directly and therefore embodies this page as the campaign founder. The idea is more important than the person. That is how I interpret him. He lives in Sydney, Australia. Miroj (talk) 12:04, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

South Korea

I was doing a google search for Free Hugs and came across a lot of stuff from South Korea. Does anyone know if it's particularly big over there?

I did come across a youtube video from Korea with over 1 million views. IT was identical to Mann's video, except of course in Korea. Similiar sign, same song, etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.192.223.240 (talk) 21:22, August 24, 2007 (UTC)

I watched a South Korean film last month on a Korean Airlines flight that had a free hugs scene in it, so I guess so. Sorry, can't remember the name of the film. It wasn't very good. 86.143.70.75 (talk) 11:45, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Just googled it: My Love. Bit like a Richard Curtis schmaltz fest, but even more rubbish. 86.143.70.75 (talk) 11:48, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Random vs. Free

Even if just for completeness sake, didn't this page ought to mention the Random Huggers campaign? Either that or Random Huggers ought to have their own separate page on Wikipedia. The Random Huggers campaign has been going for several years now and has attracted a significant level of media attention. [1] Notreallyrelevant 17:38, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Does anyone mind if I just go ahead an add a reference to Random Huggers? RandomHuggers.com - probably to the external links list. Notreallyrelevant 06:48, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

I think Random is good too..but what do you base it upon? every 3rd person you see you see you hug? or use a random number generator from 1-10.. I will hug the 7th person, the the 2nd, then the 4th after that? What if someone doesn't want a hug? I think Free is better in most cases. 13:24, 20 September 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.49.190.38 (talk)

post-speedy-recovery commentary

Interesting phenomenon here; you've got a YouTube video with something like 400k Ghits (350 unique), but they're mostly blogs and journals and the like. No official website for the "campaign" that I can see, but there's a lot of Signal-to-noise ratio problems in Googling the term. And Juan Mann is obviously a pseudonym, which makes sourcing even harder. -- nae'blis 16:10, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Juan used to have an official site, but it's been defunct for about two years now. There is no official page for the Free Hugs campaign, but I've added the Free Help page founded by Juan Mann and Shimon Moore (along with the related video in the External Links section). -Kermitron, 6th Nov., 2006.

There is now a Free Hugs Campaign website and the mention of him in several Media outlets including the BBC. Mkdw^talk 04:09, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

more data

But where does it come from? http://www.see.com.au/blog/archives/2006/09/free_hugs.html has an extensive background interview with both Juan Mann and Shimon Moore, but doesn't attribute it to anyplace I can cite, so I can't include it right now. -- nae'blis 18:30, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Some of it is very closely repeated in this video, but I don't know which news station that is to try to track it down. White "news" on blue background, with two sets of six white lines swooping in from left to right. May be Ten News, based on similarities of logos from this video, and [. -- nae'blis 18:37, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

That video was originally hosted on the Sydney Morning Herald website, and possibly not affiliated with an actual commercial network news station (aside from SMH being owned by Fairfax media which also controls a lot of the news). I believe Ten news simply used the available footage later to put together their own news story - of course, I have nothing to back this up. -Kermitron

Also, what station is the woman in the red suit (probably a reporter) from in the main video? -- nae'blis 18:37, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

photo requested

According to the above blog post, JM is still doing this "every Thursday". Can someone from Sydney get a picture for the article? -- nae'blis 18:30, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Should we link to this?

free hugs have a strong conceptual link with the Transactional Analysis concept of inconditional postive strokes. I suggest to put a link to : http://www.claudesteiner.com/fuzzy.htm Any significant objection to this ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.166.19.234 (talk) 13:51, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Should we link to http://free-hugs.com ? An anon IP editor added it today. It doesn't seem to be affiliated with the original campaign and sells a bunch of merchandise. This looks like an opportunistic commercialisation effort rather than something that's actually relevant. I'd say we shouldn't link it. What do others think? (Until we come to a collective decision everyone likes, I've removed it from the article.) — Saxifrage ✎ 00:12, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

I just removed http://freehugs.com.cn (that's the China TLD). This discussion should probably cover all links to domains that aim to be "official sounding", not just free-hugs.com. — Saxifrage ✎ 19:11, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

I took out the entire "networking hub" section. I agree that merchandising links don't have any place unless/until they start getting traction on their own (i.e. an interview says "and now "Free Hugs" merchandise is available online at XXXXXX.com"). Just my opinion. -- nae'blis 18:24, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

So the other link to the Free Hugs Campaign isn't opportunistic? They are selling stuff. To be fair you should include the http://free-hugs.com link because it's a community service group that's been around for 5 years. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kp&envy (talk • contribs)

Did I say that we should favour one over the other? No. Just because I haven't gotten around to removing all examples of spam from the article doesn't mean I endorse any of it. We're not about being fair, we're about being accurate. Do you have a reason for including any of these at all? There is no evidence offered that any of them are official in the least. — Saxifrage ✎ 19:05, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

For accuracy, you should note that Free Hugs started in 2001, long before Juan Mann made the video. Guess what? It started with a guy and a sign. It's all on the free-hugs.com website which has the video to prove it.

Self-report sources are not considered reliable sources for Wikipedia articles. If I told you "I am the King of Spain", you would have no reason to believe it either. Unless you can come up with something independent of your site, the article will remain as it is.

Incidentally, removing the link to the Sidney Morning Herald article is inappropriate. We do not remove article sources when they're acceptable under our policies. — Saxifrage ✎ 23:19, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

I was including myspace, tribe, and youtube links - which I believe are relevant - for one: they document the various discussions going on. Two: they are legitimate networking hubs, and Three: Just so long as you have the main active sites for promoting freehugs, there is nothing wrong with it. I would like to hear from the person who keeps deleting them. I would like to hear why these 3 points arent relevant to have on this wiki - Eric

Wikipedia is not for promotion. We're not concerned with being fair to each of the "hubs", we are trying to build an encyclopedia free of spam and promotional material. — Saxifrage ✎ 16:18, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

I've just removed http://www.abrazosgratis.org from the page. Everyone and their dog seems to want to be the "official" site of Free Hugs. — Saxifrage ✎ 06:48, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps it'd be worthwhile creating an International Free Hugs Campaign page or somesuch to keep them separate from the Juan Mann campaign. -Kermitron. 6th Nov., 2006

No, that wouldn't work because it's against policy. See Wikipedia is not a links directory. Besides, that's what the Open Directory Project is for. You might consider requesting that they create a Free Hugs category. — Saxifrage ✎ 03:50, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

I know the original video was on YouTube and directly led to the phenomenon gaining popularity in the first place. I'm not sure we should be linking to other documentation on YouTube of Free Hugs events, because that could spiral out of control very quickly, given the 345 current results for a search for free hugs. How do other people feel? -- nae'blis 20:33, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

I'd say that Wikipedia isn't for tracking emerging trends and we should delete them all. — Saxifrage ✎ 20:56, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Saxifrage, freehugscampaign.org and freehelpcampaign.org are official sites for the Free Hugs Campaign founded by the original "Juan Mann". They were mentioned specifically in his second video on YouTube and I can verify it is indeed the original "Juan Mann" who founded them. -Kermitron 18:56, 12 November 2006 (AEST)

Interesting. How can you verify, is it mentioned in an independent news coverage, etc? That would change my opinion on those links somewhat - I still think the Italian regional videos need to go, they're currently stuffed under "References". -- nae'blis 19:11, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:External_links says: "An article about any organization, person, web site, or other entity should link to that entity's official site, if there is one." What about a movement which, as in this case, has no (and perhaps can have no) "official" organization? If we provide no links to relevant websites of informal movements, then aren't we introducing a bias in favor of formal, organized activities? Movements with official organizations regularly get dozens of links, it seems to me like we could allow a few here. --John_Abbe 06:14, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, "if there is one." Things that don't have official sites don't need a link to an "official" site because... there's no official site. Listing all, or even just a selection of, fansites and so-called "official" sites is against our rules about not being a links directory. Google doesn't magically stop working on people's computers when they read Wikipedia, and our job is not to replace Google. — Saxifrage ✎ 20:11, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm not talking about Wikipedia-as-links-directory (yet, but if you want to trim links directories, see Democratic Party (United States) or Republican Party (United States)). What i am pointing out is an apparent flaw in the guidelines: a bias toward organized, formalized activities. Why should we allow movements with formal organizations to get (even short) link lists, and not allow the same for movements without formal organizations?. Does anyone share this concern, or have an explanation about it from some perspective i'm missing? Note that since i am questioning the guidelines themselves, simply quoting them back is tautological. We do not serve the guidelines, we make the guidelines to serve us. --John_Abbe 06:32, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, there's a bias to organised activity. This isn't by design however, it's just a side-effect of the not being able to put material into the encyclopedia based on guesses. That's a desirable ground rule and the consequences of it are acceptable in order to maintain the integrity of the information. — Saxifrage ✎ 17:49, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

I've seen that http://abrazosgratis.org was deleted by Saxifrage. I think it should be added in the section "Other countries", since in that page are beeing organisated the most free hugs in Spain. It doesn't pretend to be the official free-hugs page. Is the proposition alright for you? --83.40.237.10 17:13, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Intentions section

I tagged this section with {{original research}} not because I think it necessarily is and should be removed, but because it really does need references to be in the article. Normally this kind of thing would just be removed on-sight as original research, but Free Hugs has gotten enough attention that something like this might be documented somewhere. — Saxifrage ✎ 23:57, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

I've axed the entire section; feel free to bring it here. If we can find interviews that explicitly back some of that up, great, but for right now it's just OR. -- nae'blis 18:16, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm the one who put in the intentions. The reason is, is that there will be a lot of people reading the site wishing to do it themselves in their own city. Without some grand...ideas on how to conduct yourselves, this anarchistic-freehugging can be taken advantage of for own means ie groping people. To me, that cheapens the movement, and leads towards people not touching others as much. Why have opportunists ruin what is a great energy? So I would request we have an intention list up. Edit it for sure, add ideas, but taking it down? Hmmmm But hey, I'm not hooked to this. Things will happen anyway...sigh... Eric yay4things@mac.com

The trouble is that Wikipedia is not a cookbook, guide, or repository for how-tos. We don't teach people how, we teach them what. We also have a rule against publishing original research here. The "Intentions" section could still fit into the article, but only if we have a verifiable source for the material that we can quote when we say that these are the intentions. — Saxifrage ✎ 16:16, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm a big meanie

I cut several references from the Publicity section that were not backed up by citations. I left a few others that were at least specific enough to be tracked down easily, but the following need more detail/references. Remember that YouTube is not generally a reliable source, although the original video is a bit of an exception. -- nae'blis 18:22, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Is it REALLY necessary to include EVERY event that is cited by a local paper? I understand the inclusion of international spots, but every mall event seems a bit overdone. I would like to clean up the article and expand the international section, but I wanted some feedback before I aggressively started to cut and paste.--TravelinSista (talk) 02:05, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Excised material

• The movement also inspired a Korean man to give out free hugs on the streets of Seoul, South Korea, to passersby. video from YouTube video
• On October 26, 2006 A small group of students were observed to be conducting Free Hugs at the Tsim Sha Tsui Star Ferry Pier in Hong Kong.

Additional cut entry

• On October 7, 2006 A free hugs in Tel-Aviv Israel video was uploaded to YouTube.Free Hugs Campaign in Tel-Aviv, Israel

Picture added

I have added a snapshot I took in august 2004 in Sydney's CBD. BTW, written sources (i.e., the Morning Herald articles) only prove free hugs were happening aroung november, so mentioning "august" looks like "an original research"; yet it is quite reliable because I only had one honeymoon insofar :-). Of course, if you want to get rid of the "august" indication as "unreliable", I won't take it personally. In any case, notice that the sign in the pic looks like exatly the same as that in the video. At the time, there was a small bunch of youngsters taking turns in holding the sign and hugging people, they were wearing school uniforms. I'm not sure what street was that, I only know it was in Sydney's CBD (might actually be Peet Street Mall). Perhaps a Sydney inhabitant might tell for sure based on the pavement and the shop signs behind the girl. Moongateclimber 04:23, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Juan Mann is still giving out Free Huggs, usually in in Pitt Street Mall in the CBD, most Thursdays (except if it's raining). I got my Free Hug last Thursday! Yes that pic appears to be Pitt Street Mall. He chalked up his fourth anniversary this month. Therin of Andor (talk) 07:47, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

I found sources pin-pointing the start date to Jun 30, 2004. The mall is Pitt St Mall, not Peet st. (I eat my lunch there every day) :) Manning (talk) 12:20, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

free-hugs.com

I've removed the following from the article:

The concept was first introduced in 2001 by American Jason G. Hunter who was inspired by his mother's death and "her mission to let every single person she met feel significant and loved." (ref) Free-hugs.com Homepage Letter(/ref).

It involves individuals who offer hugs to strangers in public settings. The campaign is an example of a random act of kindness, a selfless act performed by someone for the sole reason of making others feel better. The original organizer has stated in interviews that the purpose is not to get names, phone numbers, or dates.(ref name="smh")Sydney Morning Herald article, September 28, 2006(/ref)

The guy at free-hugs.com has been trying to change this article to say that he started it all for a while. Since there is no reference for this except his own website (which is therefore not a reliable source) this can't go in the article. Can anyone dig up an independent source that can confirm this claim to fame?

Apart from the lack of source to the claim, this article is about the current phenomenon which was kicked off by "Juan Mann", so just because someone else had the idea first doesn't mean it deserves primary mention in the article. If we find a source that confirms that Hunter thought of it first, then we should mention that this isn't the first time the idea has come up. However, this article should still be primarily about documenting the current phenomenon and its beginning. Putting the Hunter information first or representing it as the origin without talking about the origin of the current phenomenon would be misleading and disinformative for our readers. — Saxifrage ✎ 20:06, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Probably archive.org is reliable? http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.free-hugs.com Shows that free-hugs.com was up at least in May 2004. If you browse archived pages, you can see it was the same idea. At least it should be mentioned. 83.237.166.193 05:27, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Actually, using archive.org is probably considered original research on our part, which is prohibited by the no original research policy. Unless it's got press or someone reports about the fact that it came first, we have no reliable source from which to write about free-hugs.com, so we can't mention it. For the same reason, we're not even mentioning any of the many so-called "official" sites, because we don't do original research and nobody else has done any reporting/research on them in connection to this phenomenon. — Saxifrage ✎ 07:59, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Well I guess http://freehugscampaign.org/ is the official home page, dont you think so?

Looks like! — Saxifrage ✎ 17:49, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Free Help Campaign

I was looking through the external links for this article and I have noticed that the Free Help Campaign link does not appear to be working anymore. I wanted to bring this up before I removed it from the page because maybe it is just a problem on my end or a temporary problem. Reazonozaer 14:31, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Chile

There's a similar campaign in Chile visit [[2]] and add it to the links

Wikimedia Commons

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Free_Hugs

i corrected the "international free hugs day" part

as you can see from the history. why? because the international free hugs day is not on a determined day of the year (07/07), but on a recurrence (first weekend after 30th june).

My proof is

let's make International Free Hugs Day the first weekend after the 30th of June, every year.

a quote from a thread made by the original juan mann on the official forum of the campaign. Hope i explained correctly and completely what i've done and why. cheers --81.208.74.182 22:27, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

• • • • As far as I know, a date has been set for international hugs day / World Appreciation Day. Miroj (talk) 12:07, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Links toward Youtube video

Hello, This campaign being a video campaign I think it may be good to put links toward the Youtube's videos. I propose the following format since it's really consise (use one line), link toward videos of the campaign (the core of the article), links are not promoting any local website, they simply use youtube, the place where all started (-> neutral). I think we need one from each major country and if possible one from each continent (so about 5 to 10), no more.

Do you agree with this add ?:

Videos by country : Sydney ; New-York ; Korea ; Peru ; etc.

Yug (talk) 13:23, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Votes

1.  Done Yug (talk) 13:23, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Dave Matthews Band video

There's no mention in the article of the video for the Dave Matthews Band song "Everyday," but it came out in 2002, which means it predates Juan Mann's campaign by two years, and is clearly the same idea. Worth including? Charolastra charolo (talk) 18:37, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Official Website offline???

I have changed the article to reflect the fact that the freehugscampaign.org website is currently offline! Does anyone know why this site is offline or if it will ever be coming back???

Site is back up, updated article accordingly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.73.76.48 (talk) 20:04, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Huh?

Who is Juan Mann and what is his importance? This article is frequently incomprehensible. --S.dedalus (talk) 02:09, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

First attempt at a clean-up, article still has weaknesses

I've just completed a solid attempt at a clean-up. Nothing unreferenced was kept (the article was littered with a lot of "we had a free hugs day and we hugged 200 people" nonsense) and I've tried to create a meaningful narrative of how the campaign came about. I've greatly improved the article's explanation of who Juan Mann is.

However the article is still weak at explaining how the movement spread to other countries and what level of organisation exists around it. I'll come back to it when I have time, or someone else can research and improve the article. Manning (talk) 13:11, 3 September 2008 (UTC)