Talk:John Negroponte and User:Cyde/List of candidates for speedy deletion/Subpage: Difference between pages

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*[[Abgeordnetenwatch]] -- [[Talk:Abgeordnetenwatch|talk]]
{{talkheader}}
*[[Alan Corkish]] -- [[Talk:Alan Corkish|talk]]
{{ArticleHistory
*[[Apostrophe (Band)]] -- [[Talk:Apostrophe (Band)|talk]]
|action1=PR
*[[Beau Litz]] -- [[Talk:Beau Litz|talk]]
|action1date=03:13, 1 February 2005
*[[Bianca Golden]] -- [[Talk:Bianca Golden|talk]]
|action1link=Wikipedia:Peer review/John Negroponte/archive1
*[[Bob Evans (Band)]] -- [[Talk:Bob Evans (Band)|talk]]
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*[[Body therapy]] -- [[Talk:Body therapy|talk]]
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*[[Bulgarian Human Rights in Macedonia]] -- [[Talk:Bulgarian Human Rights in Macedonia|talk]]

*[[CIVO United]] -- [[Talk:CIVO United|talk]]
|action2=GAN
*[[Cafe9]] -- [[Talk:Cafe9|talk]]
|action2date=11 June 2006
*[[Capella Photonics]] -- [[Talk:Capella Photonics|talk]]
|action2result=not listed
*[[Carlton Leach]] -- [[Talk:Carlton Leach|talk]]
|action2oldid=57668200
*[[Company of the Wolf]] -- [[Talk:Company of the Wolf|talk]]

*[[Complete Cruise Solution]] -- [[Talk:Complete Cruise Solution|talk]]
|currentstatus=FGAN
*[[Conrad Oster]] -- [[Talk:Conrad Oster|talk]]
}}
*[[Convoy SLS-64]] -- [[Talk:Convoy SLS-64|talk]]
{{WPBiography
*[[Crooker]] -- [[Talk:Crooker|talk]]
|living=yes
*[[Dance Academy]] -- [[Talk:Dance Academy|talk]]
|class=B
*[[Danger Gang]] -- [[Talk:Danger Gang|talk]]
|importance=
*[[David Guinan]] -- [[Talk:David Guinan|talk]]
|politician-work-group=yes
*[[Dennis Burbank]] -- [[Talk:Dennis Burbank|talk]]
|listas=Negroponte, John
*[[ETiQa Takaful]] -- [[Talk:ETiQa Takaful|talk]]
}}
*[[Ed Henry]] -- [[Talk:Ed Henry|talk]]

*[[Ehud Bleiberg]] -- [[Talk:Ehud Bleiberg|talk]]
{{onlinesource|year=2004|section=April 2004 (28 articles)
*[[Elizabeth Louise Gardner]] -- [[Talk:Elizabeth Louise Gardner|talk]]
|title=The Case Against John Negroponte
*[[Exterro]] -- [[Talk:Exterro|talk]]
|org=Buzzflash.com
*[[Extreme Form]] -- [[Talk:Extreme Form|talk]]
|date=April 23, 2004
*[[Giles Tucker]] -- [[Talk:Giles Tucker|talk]]
|url=http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/04/04/con04175.html}}
*[[Gouwei]] -- [[Talk:Gouwei|talk]]
{{WikiProject Central America|class=B|importance=low}}
*[[Hannah lambourne]] -- [[Talk:Hannah lambourne|talk]]
{{WikiProject International relations|un= yes}}
*[[Hitman Records]] -- [[Talk:Hitman Records|talk]]
*talk page [[/archive|archive]]
*[[:Image:CSH-023787.jpg]] -- [[Image talk:CSH-023787.jpg|talk]]

*[[:Image:Chesterbus logo.gif]] -- [[Image talk:Chesterbus logo.gif|talk]]
==Will an admin PLEASE either tag this article for POV, or else edit it to neutrality?==
*[[:Image:Eurolines Logo.jpg]] -- [[Image talk:Eurolines Logo.jpg|talk]]
I am neither a Wiki admin, nor a particular fan of Negroponte's. I don't know the man, and have not spent years researching his activities in Honduras or elsewhere. That said, however, I consider myself to be both rational and neutral, and I find this article to be highly POV, verging on character assassination. Indeed, the fact that a small but determined group of anti-Negroponte activists continues its campaign of layering on one-sided attacks, means that in the absence of Negroponte partisans (is there some rule that says every article needs champions as well as detractors?) this article represents a low point of Wikipedia, and a great example of the kind of stuff that Wiki-detractors point to with glee. "Good Article"? You've got to be kidding! [sigh] [[User:Yorker|Yorker]] 23:23, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
*[[:Image:FLEXANDHATED.jpg]] -- [[Image talk:FLEXANDHATED.jpg|talk]]
:I have not spent years researching Negroponte either but I don't think the article is a hatchet job. It appears to report accurate and sourced information that is consistent with my memory of this material. There may be exculpatory material in the public record that you should include if you know of it, but I certainly never saw it in the 1980s when I read about him in mainstream newspapers. There are definitely places in the article where citations would be helpful, but I don't think this is made up or just a bunch of baseless attacks. If you think something is incorrect, by all means look it up and correct it!--[[User:Commodore Sloat|csloat]] 05:19, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
*[[:Image:Gentics content.node4 screenshot liveeditor v1 2007-06-25.jpg]] -- [[Image talk:Gentics content.node4 screenshot liveeditor v1 2007-06-25.jpg|talk]]

*[[:Image:In sorte book.jpg]] -- [[Image talk:In sorte book.jpg|talk]]
==Edited for NPOV/Reverted/Tagged==
*[[:Image:JeanBaudrillard.jpg]] -- [[Image talk:JeanBaudrillard.jpg|talk]]
This article, as discussed in the archived peer review, is <i>highly</i> biased and inappropriate for Wikipedia. I removed the whole swath of attack detail, ALL of which is amply referenced in the external links, as well as the mention (which Kiaparowits had correctly questioned) about Skull & Bones, and re-edited the article back to neutral facts, which is what this is alll supposed to be about. As it is, there are four times as many negative external links as there are positive ones. 23 December 2005 <i>NOTE: For procedural reasons, an Administrator reverted these edits, but has acknowledged the obvious bias of the article (and its clearcut violation of Wikipedia's Neutral Point of View rules) by tagging it with a warning. Readers without an axe to grind are invited to continue editing the article to return it (or, more accurately, bring it for the first time) back to a Wikipedia-appropriate, objective piece. 31 December 2005</i>
*[[:Image:José Rubio (Compostela).jpg]] -- [[Image talk:José Rubio (Compostela).jpg|talk]]

*[[:Image:L-McG.jpg]] -- [[Image talk:L-McG.jpg|talk]]
==Ummm...reality check here?==
*[[:Image:Moe Howard Image.jpg]] -- [[Image talk:Moe Howard Image.jpg|talk]]
I just happened across this page in search for some background information about Negroponte, and I must say that I'm surprised that there hasn't been more discussion or 'peer review' of this article. I've never met the guy, have no axe to grind, and don't know much about him (which is why I came here in the first place), but I can certainly tell a hatchet job when I see one. This article is so completely biased, and so obviously unfair, that it clearly violates the Wikipedia NPV guidelines. Frankly, I'm almost tempted to rewrite the whole thing from scratch as a community service! Isn't there someone around who knows something about this subject who could do a decent editing job on this piece of blatant character assassination? 28 November 2005
*[[:Image:Noshtimstrebor.jpg]] -- [[Image talk:Noshtimstrebor.jpg|talk]]

*[[:Image:Noshtimstrebor2.jpg]] -- [[Image talk:Noshtimstrebor2.jpg|talk]]
== Skull and Bones ==
*[[:Image:Panthro.jpg]] -- [[Image talk:Panthro.jpg|talk]]
Some anon IP just added the following info to the :
*[[:Image:Pirates.gif]] -- [[Image talk:Pirates.gif|talk]]
:At Yale, he was, like many members of the [[Bush]] family, a member of [[Skull & Bones]].
*[[:Image:Pyramis-airphoto.jpg]] -- [[Image talk:Pyramis-airphoto.jpg|talk]]
Now, given the subject, this affiliation is certainly possible, but the [[Skull and Bones]] article has no mention of him. Does anyone have a reference to his membership? Also, the phrase "like many memebers of the [[Bush]] family" seems unneccessary. Thoughts? [[User:Kiaparowits|Kiaparowits]] 16:32, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
*[[:Image:RCatpiano.JPG]] -- [[Image talk:RCatpiano.JPG|talk]]

*[[:Image:Rafa Yugueros.jpg]] -- [[Image talk:Rafa Yugueros.jpg|talk]]
== POV tag ==
*[[:Image:Roberto García.jpg]] -- [[Image talk:Roberto García.jpg|talk]]

*[[:Image:Sample Google Doc.jpg]] -- [[Image talk:Sample Google Doc.jpg|talk]]
I added the {{tl|npov}} tag because this article is too criticism-heavy. The [[Skull and Bones]] bit is completely irrelevant, and at least a couple of paragraphs do not have anything to do with Negroponte, but rather with the Honduras incidents. [[User:Titoxd|Tito]][[Wikipedia:Esperanza|<span style="color:#008000;">xd</span>]]<sup>([[User_talk:Titoxd|?!?]] - [[User:Titoxd/Flcelloguy's Tool|help us]])</sup> 20:37, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
*[[:Image:Scarlet fade pic1.jpg]] -- [[Image talk:Scarlet fade pic1.jpg|talk]]
:Whether something is relevant or not is a POV, isn't it? I agree that criticism shouldn't be in articles unless it relates opinions/critisms of credible sources. --[[User:Rebroad|Rebroad]] 16:49, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
*[[:Image:Sexyseniors.JPG]] -- [[Image talk:Sexyseniors.JPG|talk]]

*[[:Image:The fall last days of gaia cover.jpg]] -- [[Image talk:The fall last days of gaia cover.jpg|talk]]
== Re: "reality check" and this article being "too criticism-heavy" ==
*[[:Image:Vitthal.png]] -- [[Image talk:Vitthal.png|talk]]

*[[:Image:Víctor García.jpg]] -- [[Image talk:Víctor García.jpg|talk]]
Aside from the Skull and Bones issue, none of the claims are refuted, are they? Officially denied maybe, but not refuted. Negroponte had a significant role in worsening the human rights situation in Central America, particularly Honduras, in the 1980s. Should we leave that out? It seems to me we are aiming for balance when the facts are clearly not in Negroponte's favor. What if balance means leaving out enough facts so he seems like not quite such a bad guy? While Negroponte is not quite a Hitler or a Stalin, it makes me wonder if similar objections about neutrality would arise if someone were to tell the truth about those two individuals. What if the truth of Negroponte is as bad as this article or worse? Should we strive to moderate the article because the truth seems too extreme? Please tell me if I misunderstood the issue. - Ron Leighton, <email removed>
*[[:Image:WandsworthLBarms.svg]] -- [[Image talk:WandsworthLBarms.svg|talk]]
:That is not my complaint. The [[WP:NPOV|Neutral point of view]] policy states that articles should not present any sort of accusatory bias, which this article has. Here's a relevant quote:
*[[:Image:Wd1.jpg]] -- [[Image talk:Wd1.jpg|talk]]
#''An encyclopedic article should not argue that corporations are criminals, even if the author believes it to be so. It should instead present the fact that some people believe it, and what their reasons are, and then as well it should present what the other side says.''
*[[:Image:Woodwardmtv.JPG]] -- [[Image talk:Woodwardmtv.JPG|talk]]
: I'm not asking for the article to be "moderated" by removing '''all''' criticism; I'm saying that a response to the criticism should be included in this article. Also, the article must not have any posture on the controversial issues; we're just reporting what happens, not taking a stance on it. [[User:Titoxd|Tito]][[Wikipedia:Esperanza|<span style="color:#008000;">xd</span>]]<sup>([[User_talk:Titoxd|?!?]] - [[User:Titoxd/Flcelloguy's Tool|help us]])</sup> 07:51, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
*[[:Image:Ysdpic copia.jpg]] -- [[Image talk:Ysdpic copia.jpg|talk]]
::If the critism is from credible sources it should stay. If you are aware of rebuttals to the critism also from credible sources, then please feel free to add these to the article. --[[User:Rebroad|Rebroad]] 16:52, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
*[[Imageworks studio]] -- [[Talk:Imageworks studio|talk]]
:::I'm re-adding the {{tl|npov}} tag until ''at the very least'' the uncited material is removed, e.g. ''He is sometimes considered...'' - [[User:Aaron Brenneman|<font color="#2f4f4f">brenneman</font>]][[User Talk:Aaron Brenneman|<font color="#2f4f4f"><sup>(t)</sup></font>]][[Special:Contributions/Aaron Brenneman|<font color="#2f4f4f"><sup>(c)</sup></font>]] 23:19, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
*[[Inverclyde Training Choir]] -- [[Talk:Inverclyde Training Choir|talk]]
:So we have tried and failed to disprove that JN was all mobbed up with the death squads. Why is that a problem? A wiser course might be to explain why death squads and other forms of US intervention in other nations is so widely cherished by many Americans.
*[[Jarrett crknovich]] -- [[Talk:Jarrett crknovich|talk]]

*[[Jidou Limited]] -- [[Talk:Jidou Limited|talk]]
I think that what "Tito" (ironic name here, dude) wants is for us to include [[Rich Lowry]]'s defense of the guy. But a point to note is that even Lowry doesn't deny that he was closely linked to the human rights abuses, Lowry just argues that though he was closely linked, he was neutral, and that such measures may have been necessary to defeat communism.--[[User:Zaorish]]
*[[Joseph Daniel Johns]] -- [[Talk:Joseph Daniel Johns|talk]]

*[[Lawrence Eric Taylor]] -- [[Talk:Lawrence Eric Taylor|talk]]
== Skull & Bones Links ==
*[[Lexie Kelly]] -- [[Talk:Lexie Kelly|talk]]

*[[Linboh linboh]] -- [[Talk:Linboh linboh|talk]]
I just heard that he was in [[Skull & Bones]] on the radio and came here looking for the years to find fellow members. It is a left wing show, [[The Randi Rhodes Show]], which I know has used Wikipedia to research in the past; so it could have used as its source the disputed line.
*[[List of Gujjars]] -- [[Talk:List of Gujjars|talk]]

*[[Lostangel]] -- [[Talk:Lostangel|talk]]
I don't think that the original author of the sentence:
*[[Marguerite Abouet]] -- [[Talk:Marguerite Abouet|talk]]
"At Yale, he was, like many members of the Bush family, a member of Skull & Bones."
*[[Medicated (band)]] -- [[Talk:Medicated (band)|talk]]
meant to show bias. It can be useful in drawing conclusions about how he was linked to people like the Bushs and Reagan. The wording comes across as expressing a POV, so that problem must be fixed before even thinking about putting it back into the text. [[User:Denis Diderot II|Denis Diderot II]] 04:18, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
*[[Mediterranean Institute of Gender Studies]] -- [[Talk:Mediterranean Institute of Gender Studies|talk]]

*[[Mian Muhammad Aslam]] -- [[Talk:Mian Muhammad Aslam|talk]]
== 'death squads'? ==
*[[Michael Palao]] -- [[Talk:Michael Palao|talk]]

*[[Modestas mankus]] -- [[Talk:Modestas mankus|talk]]
Any of y'all know wtf the newly added 'death squad' section is about? I have no idea or context, and am mulling its deletion, unless it gets cleaned up. --[[User:Dogcow|moof]] 07:27, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
*[[Moksha margam]] -- [[Talk:Moksha margam|talk]]

*[[Montecristo (Argentine telenovela)]] -- [[Talk:Montecristo (Argentine telenovela)|talk]]
:I removed it. Wikipedia is not a place for such apologetics. If Negroponte made such a statement somewhere, it is likely quotable here, but it is neither necessary nor desirable for wikipedia editors to make up arguments that we think Negroponte should have said.--[[User:Commodore Sloat|csloat]] 07:48, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
*[[Mustafa Anssar]] -- [[Talk:Mustafa Anssar|talk]]

*[[National Autistic Research Fund]] -- [[Talk:National Autistic Research Fund|talk]]
==POV tag?==
*[[Nova Scotia Arm Wrestling Association]] -- [[Talk:Nova Scotia Arm Wrestling Association|talk]]
The POV tag has been on this page for several months, but the explanation given for why it is here offers no specific suggestion for improving the page. "Too much criticism" is not a good reason for the tag -- couldn't we say the same of [[Idi Amin|this page]] or [[Charles Manson|this one]]? NPOV should not mean that we balance every "bad" comment with a "good" one. I think we should remove the tag unless someone can articulate a clear suggestion about what can be done to improve the POV issue.--[[User:Commodore Sloat|csloat]] 07:53, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
*[[PC Billy Rowan]] -- [[Talk:PC Billy Rowan|talk]]

*[[Polonia Cernăuţi]] -- [[Talk:Polonia Cernăuţi|talk]]
I think you're mostly right, but not totally. For example, look at the "Ambassador to the U.N." section. It contains criticism, which looks pretty accurate. But there is one thing that cannot be denied: It contains Zero information on what JN did as amb. to the UN.
*[[Prophetic Christianity]] -- [[Talk:Prophetic Christianity|talk]]
--[[User:Zaorish]]
*[[Raghavendra Gadagkar]] -- [[Talk:Raghavendra Gadagkar|talk]]

*[[RealTruck.Com Automotive Accessories]] -- [[Talk:RealTruck.Com Automotive Accessories|talk]]

*[[Renee Intlekofer]] -- [[Talk:Renee Intlekofer|talk]]
For positive facts and perspectives, let's try to add from this article:
*[[Rhys jenkins baritone]] -- [[Talk:Rhys jenkins baritone|talk]]
http://www.pwhce.org/negroponte.html
*[[Royal Spanish Football Federation]] -- [[Talk:Royal Spanish Football Federation|talk]]

*[[Salina Chrichir]] -- [[Talk:Salina Chrichir|talk]]
--[[User:Zaorish]]
*[[Sessioners]] -- [[Talk:Sessioners|talk]]

*[[Sharon D. Ross]] -- [[Talk:Sharon D. Ross|talk]]
== "irrelevant miscellany" ==
*[[SoMedia Networks]] -- [[Talk:SoMedia Networks|talk]]

*[[Sonika Sahay]] -- [[Talk:Sonika Sahay|talk]]
Unfortunately, my commit comment got accidentally truncated. If documents that previously weren't released have actually been released, please cite such, rather than just removing a big hunk of text. --[[User:Dogcow|moof]] 09:43, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
*[[Stage 6 Films]] -- [[Talk:Stage 6 Films|talk]]

*[[Sylvie Vartan EPs]] -- [[Talk:Sylvie Vartan EPs|talk]]
==Failed GA==
*[[Template:Angel The Series Characters]] -- [[Template talk:Angel The Series Characters|talk]]
The article has no references and is not set out in wiki style which I personally feel makes it hard to follow.--[[User:Childzy|Childzy]] 12:39, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
*[[Template:Buffy The Vampire Slayer Characters]] -- [[Template talk:Buffy The Vampire Slayer Characters|talk]]

*[[The Fourm at Ashley Park]] -- [[Talk:The Fourm at Ashley Park|talk]]
=="Secret prisons" claim==
*[[The Glade Magazine]] -- [[Talk:The Glade Magazine|talk]]

*[[The Jump Manual]] -- [[Talk:The Jump Manual|talk]]
''Time'' magazine claimed that Negroponte
*[[The Teseracte Players of Boston]] -- [[Talk:The Teseracte Players of Boston|talk]]
*confirmed the existence of CIA "secret prisons" [http://www.aim.org/aim_report/4624_0_4_0_C/]
*[[The alliance of technology access]] -- [[Talk:The alliance of technology access|talk]]

*[[The drama club]] -- [[Talk:The drama club|talk]]
However, this was a case of creative misquoting, context manipulation and extrapolation. Actually, the interview cited as "confirming" the existence of the alleged "secret prisons" didn't mention them at all.
*[[The-gouch]] -- [[Talk:The-gouch|talk]]

*[[Thiruvalluvar educational trust]] -- [[Talk:Thiruvalluvar educational trust|talk]]
The journalists asked about some prisoners, and Negroponte refused to say where they were being held. Logically, this means either:
*[[Thomas Anderson (slave)]] -- [[Talk:Thomas Anderson (slave)|talk]]
*they are being held in regular (non-secret) prisons, i.e., prisons whose existence is on record - but Negroponte just won't say which ones!
*[[Tim Briggs]] -- [[Talk:Tim Briggs|talk]]
*or secret prisons exist, and that's where the prisoners are (the journalists' '''conclusion''')
*[[Time To Leave]] -- [[Talk:Time To Leave|talk]]

*[[Tivoli Federated Identity Manager]] -- [[Talk:Tivoli Federated Identity Manager|talk]]
The following is clearly a misquotation by ''Time'':
*[[Tropical Storm Felice (1970)]] -- [[Talk:Tropical Storm Felice (1970)|talk]]
*"Exclusive: John Negroponte says accused Al-Qaeda members will remain in secret prisons as long as 'war on terror continues.'"
*[[Turner and browning]] -- [[Talk:Turner and browning|talk]]

*[[Tušmobil]] -- [[Talk:Tušmobil|talk]]
What he actually say was:
*[[Twin Atlantic]] -- [[Talk:Twin Atlantic|talk]]
*"... These people are being held, they're bad actors, and as long as the situation continues, the situation with the war on terror continuing, I'm not sure I can tell you what the ultimate disposition of those detainees would be." [http://www.aim.org/aim_report/4624_0_4_0_C/]
*[[User talk:Knownot/archive1]]

*[[Veer Shubhranshu Shrivastav]] -- [[Talk:Veer Shubhranshu Shrivastav|talk]]
Can someone help me go through Wikipedia and make sure the Liberal POV that there are "secret prisons" is not inserted "as fact", but is labelled the POV of ''Time'' or whoever it was who chose to interpret Negroponte's statement that way? --[[User:Ed Poor|Uncle Ed]] 15:00, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
*[[Vivek Mashruwala]] -- [[Talk:Vivek Mashruwala|talk]]

*[[Waqas Barkat]] -- [[Talk:Waqas Barkat|talk]]
:Are you saying that they don't exist? Can you show where Negroponte criticized Time's interpretation of his statement? Surely he would be all over such a blatant distortion of his words, if that's what it was? I haven't been following this closely enough to get involved here, but based on what I have seen in the media and what Ed Poor has pointed out here, I don't think it would be incorrect to infer that they do exist. Isn't there a whole section on them in James Risen's book? Has the Administration ever denied their existence?--[[User:Commodore Sloat|csloat]] 19:31, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
*[[Wireless hive network]] -- [[Talk:Wireless hive network|talk]]

*[[Xero (Band)]] -- [[Talk:Xero (Band)|talk]]
::No, and no. You'll note that I haven't edited the article based on the AIM report. I wanted to get a little discussion going first.
*[[Yateesh M. Acharya]] -- [[Talk:Yateesh M. Acharya|talk]]

*[[:Category:The Ranch albums]] -- [[Category talk:The Ranch albums|talk]]
::Perhaps what the article needs is a mention of the dispute over whether Negroponte '''confirmed''' the existence of the "secret prisons". By the way, is the a [[CIA secret prison]]s article? --[[User:Ed Poor|Uncle Ed]] 14:40, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

==Negroponte witnessed Kissinger Secret Beijing Meet==

John D. Negroponte is listed as a NSA staffer in attendance of a secret meeting between Herny Kissinger and Zhou en-Lai, June 20, 1972, in Beijing. the NSA archives recently released a transcript of the meeting.

:"[http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB193/HAK%206-20-72.pdf Memorandum of Conversation with Zhou Enlai], 20 June 1972". (3.13 MB PDF File)

In the meeting, Kissinger laid out a proper timeline for a [[Decent Interval]] between US disengagement from Vietnam, and the North's continuation of hostilities.

Negroponte has been mum on this for over three decades.

--[[User:216.193.1.4|216.193.1.4]]



== One important member of the US diplomatic delegation against Vietnam ?==

Was Negroponte one important member of the US diplomatic delegation against Vietnam during the Vietnam war ( 1965-1975) ?

Thanks,

--[[User:Redflowers|Redflowers]] 19:03, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

== Criticism external links? ==

Wait, what? Do we really need this? I could understand a criticism section but not a whole area devoted for links. Can somebody just add a section with the links as citations? - [[User:JWhitt433|JWhitt]] ([[User talk:JWhitt433|talk]]) 00:16, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Revision as of 18:45, 10 October 2008

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