Talk:Frederick Douglass

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Grammar

I changed the phrase "Douglass was one of the most prominent figures" to "Douglass IS one of the most prominent figures" since he remains a historic figure, because it's not likely that African-American historians, or any, will decide that he's not one of the most prominent figures in African-American history anymore. This is strictly from a logical reasoning viewpoint. If grammar rules indicate that one should always say: "so and so WAS a historical figure", then it should be changed back. Thoughts? --Brian Tjoe-Nij (talk) 17:49, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Klan acts

i have a question about The Klan Acts. does anyone know what they are? if someone finds a site that has some good info, i think we should add a link to it. Osmo250 03:19, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

The "Klan Acts" are covered in Wikipedia, under different names:

• Force Acts - Four of them, but especially the Force Act of 1870. The Force Act of 1870 (which came into effect in 1871) was an act that ended most of the Ku Klux Klan. In this act, the government banned the use of terror, force or bribery to prevent someone from voting because of their race. Other laws banned the KKK entirely and brought forth military help to enforce these laws. Eventually, KKK members were tried and thousands of Klansmen were arrested. The first Klan was almost eradicated within a year.

• Civil Rights Act of 1871 -- Fconaway (talk) 22:15, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Laws in various USA states say that conspiracy to commit violence against particular groups because of hatred of same groups is illegal. Wikkrockiana 06:10, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

I was going to add a lot about Douglass' childhood to the beginning, does anyone think this would hurt the article? --Weirdo59 22:39, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Not if its in good formatt and you add one pic. to go along with a long section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Deananoby2 (talk • contribs) 16:43, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Harriet Bailey

The person who wrote this link her name. When you click on the link for her name it just takes you right back to this article. Im just assuming this is becuz there not alot of info on her and this is the only article on wiki that talks about her..... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Deananoby2 (talk • contribs) 16:44, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Alternate History

Is the discussion on the science fiction alternative histories appopriate for a general article such as this? I don't think knowledge of the Turtledove books is necessary for an understanding of Douglass or his impact. I think that section should be taken out. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alexeditor (talk • contribs) 02:13, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

- Nobody replied, so I am taking this section out. I can't see how anyone thinks this belongs in a serious encylopedia article on Frederick Douglass. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alexeditor (talk • contribs) 02:21, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Science fiction alternative histories are not appropriate for an encyclopedia article. Kaldari 16:00, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

I second that. It's like a slight disparaging act. Stuff like that can of course be added to an article on alternative histories ... --Brian Tjoe-Nij (talk) 18:16, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

year of birth

Febuary 17, 1818 should be listed as Douglass' birth year; per Library of Congress cataloging data and reference in William McFeely's 1991 biography. Mclawton 14:37, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

• There seems to be a lot of disagreement about this. About half the sources I've seen say 1817, about half 1818. I guess LoC would be as good as anyone as an authority. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 16:20, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

The postage stamp caption is incorrect. The 25-cent Douglass stamp was first issued February 14, 1967 in Washington, DC. The USPOD may have been operating on the assumption that this date was the sesquicentennial of Douglass's birth. Prior to this time, the Post Office had a long history of issuing stamps to commemorate famous black Americans; thus is it doubtful the issuance of stamp could be solely attributable to a rise in the civil rights movement per se. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.48.20.165 (talk) 14:37, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Source of the above information regarding the stamp is "Scott 2008 Specialized Catalogue of United States Stamps & Covers" (Scott 1290). A second Douglass stamp was issued by USPS in June 1995 as part of its "Civil War" series (Scott 2975h). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.48.20.165 (talk) 14:45, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Cultural depictions of Frederick Douglass

I've started an approach that may apply to Wikipedia's Core Biography articles: creating a branching list page based on in popular culture information. I started that last year while I raised Joan of Arc to featured article when I created Cultural depictions of Joan of Arc, which has become a featured list. Recently I also created Cultural depictions of Alexander the Great out of material that had been deleted from the biography article. Since cultural references sometimes get deleted without discussion, I'd like to suggest this approach as a model for the editors here. Regards, Durova 18:33, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Way overly revised

The usage of new terms such as "African American" should be declared unfit for a negro who lived in the 19th century. He never said that he was an "African American." There is nothing wrong with the word NEGRO.GhostofSuperslum 23:05, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Hmm. Nothing wrong with the word itself if it is used very carefully. "Negro" is an artifact of a discredited racial theory, referring to the racial aspect alone without the ethnic and cultural components. It originated from the Spanish or Portuguese word meaning black, referring to pigmented skin, but usually more brown than black. "Negroes" were actually many different African peoples, with differing racial and ethnic backgrounds. They certainly were not the same after the diaspora and acculturation. African Americans today are quite different, neither black nor white.Fconaway 21:49, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Not worth a hill of beans

The population of the United States doubles every 50 to 60 years, ergo, it will soon double from 300 million people to 600 million people. Granting the descendants of slaves a new name is not going to feed them when the population of the United States passes the number at which food becomes unattainable by the poor negroes. The name "African American" is not worth a hill of beans. GhostofSuperslum 16:22, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

• Hi. Wikipedia is WP:NOT a soapbox; if you have suggestions for improving the article, we'd love to hear them. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 16:24, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

I am very surprised

At the length of this article. One would expect a much larger article on such a historically noteworthy individual as Frederick Douglass. Wikipediarules2221 04:44, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

• The article was copy/pasted and so was deleted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Marrilpet (talk • contribs) 12:02, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Very weak article for such a famous person. Uncle John's Bathroom Reader Plunges Into Great Lives says at page 286 that he was born Frederick Baily in 1818 in Easton Maryland, that he only saw his mother a few times, was raised by his grandmother Betsy Baily, that he never met his father and it was rumoured his white owner Aaron Anthony was his father. I recommend you get permission from Uncle John and incorporate his article to add some substance to this article. DParker. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.161.1.172 (talk • contribs) 02:10, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Needs a real Bio

There should definitely be more of a bio here - look at William Lloyd Garrison. Frederick Douglass was an absolutely huge figure in abolitionism, and deserve far more than a cursory few sentences of biography. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 160.39.247.249 (talk • contribs) 18:28, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Bio?

Why is there no biography for Fredrick Douglass? I don't think that a few quotes, some trivia and a quick summary of him is adequate for an encyclopedia entry on one of the most important figures in African-American rights. I assume that there's some reconstruction of a biography going on, possibly a result of some vandalism, but in the event that there is just no bio, I think that somebody should write one. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.108.29.20 (talk • contribs) 02:28, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Many people have whined on this discussion page abut the need for a real bio. If you feel that this is so important, why don't you write a bio instead of complaining that no one else has? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.177.143.55 (talk • contribs) 04:15, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

This information source might be a good start. I'd add it to the article's External Links, if it weren't locked down.

Obituary, February 21, 1895 Death Of Fred Douglass By THE NEW YORK TIMES

68.228.70.223 15:34, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your suggestion for Frederick Douglas. When you believe an article needs improvement, please feel free to change it. You can edit almost any article on Wikipedia by just following the Edit link at the top of the page. We encourage you to be bold in updating pages, because wikis like ours develop faster when everybody edits. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes—they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. You can always preview your edits before you publish them or test them out in the sandbox. If you need additional help, check out our getting started page or ask the friendly folks at the Teahouse. --Robin63 15:56, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Quote re: political party

"I am a Republican, a black, dyed in the wool Republican, and I never intend to belong to any other party than the party of freedom and progress." If this quote is kept, there should be some note as to what party he was referring to, since the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_the_United_States article doesn't show the current republican party as existing during his lifetime. Personally I don't see why this quote would be kept at all though, I certainly hope he's left a more lasting legacy than that. -- David Alves — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.146.14.115 (talk • contribs) 09:36, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

edit: The main article for http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Party_%28United_States%29 shows it as starting in 1856, but I still think that quote is a poor choice for inclusion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.146.14.115 (talk • contribs) 09:41, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

It is intended to reflect "small r republicanism" ideals moreso than the party ideals, though at that point in time, the two were essentially one and the same. Piuro 08:07, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Oh, for God's sake. One doesn't have to refer "back to what small 'r' Republicans meant to the black race" two centuries ago. For more current information, you have but to look to the 40's, 50's, 60's of the LAST century. Has everyone forgotten (CURRENT, 'alive' and babbling) Senator Grand KKK Poobah Byrd of WV? Orville Faubus of AK? George Wallace of AL? Senator and DixieCrat Strom Thurmond of SC? Gov Lester Maddox of GA? On and on and on...

Democrats, everyone. And who stood for minority rights in the face of their bigotry? REPUBLICANS. It's time that lots of folks take a deep breath, smell the coffee, and take a large bite of reality sandwich. That blacks think their progress lies with the party that wants to keep them down trodden, dependent and in ideological chains is one of today's major paradoxes. That Douglass proclaimed his staunch Republican affiliation can do quite well without prevarication and contorted explanations.

68.228.70.223 15:53, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

African American & Protestant

I would disagree with the objection below to the use of the term 'African American'. I wa surprised to see that comment since it is much more precise and self-explanatory; the preference of some for the term negro is archaic, and I would have thought archaic words should be left where they are found - in very old editions, or if used, should be in quotation marks. I am taking a European point of view, which I think shoudl be considered as not all readers are American.

My reason to add this talk piece however, is to comment that by 'Protestant' the author probably means 'nonconformist' in the section covering 'Travels to Europe' - a section that could be enlarged upon. Camposanta 22:57, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

African American

I think that it is very inapropite to calla black man an "African American" considering that you have come dricetly from africa to Amaerica to be an "african American" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.203.58.93 (talk) 11:40, February 21, 2007 (UTC)

I think the consensus view is that African-Americans are Americans whose ancestors came from Africa, and not only Americans who were born in Africa. — Malik Shabazz | Talk 18:51, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Fredrick's Birthdday

His birthday is february 14 not the 17 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.73.117.206 (talk) 00:16, 11 April 2007 (UTC).

African American

I think the word african American is ove It give off the vive that all black people come from africa which i believe is un true The word afican americn is just as offending as calling some one by their racial name The term african american is an undercover stereotype and should be abolished. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.151.96.233 (talk) 01:07, 26 April 2007 (UTC).

Famous Quotes

• "You have seen how a man was made a slave; you shall see how a slave was made a man." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Slinette (talk • contribs) 13:03, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

20 dollar bill

I know this is no place for a poll count but who here thinks that Andrew Jackson should finally be removed and, in his place, put Fredrick Douglass on the $20 bill???? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.174.141.133 (talk) 18:28, 14 May 2007 (UTC).

Okay! That would be a huge improvement.Fconaway (talk) 17

37, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Gutenberg

It seems odd to me to list his collected works at Project Gutenberg as well as the individual works. Anyone else think this should be edited?216.185.23.50 20:05, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

His tour in Ireland (from WP:RD/H)

Frederick Douglas was not the first black abolitionist to speak in Ireland; his tour in 1845 had been preceded by that of Charles Lenox Remond, who came four years previously. While Remond was there, Daniel O'Connell, the leading spokesman for Irish nationalism, organised the 'Great Irish Address', a petition urging Irish Americans to oppose slavery, which attracted some 60,000 signatures. So, Ireland was fertile ground for Douglas' tour, which took in some fifty locations, but the specific reason for coming when he did was in anticipation of the first Irish edition of Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglas, an American Slave. Also, Douglas had great respect for O'Connell, considered by many to be the leading European abolitionist. When he died in 1847, Douglas wrote of him "...the cause of the American slave, not less than the cause of his country, had met with a great loss."

Douglas' lecture tour began in Dublin in August 1845. The topic, curiously, was not slavery at all, but the evils of alcohol -"The immediate, and it may be the main cause of the extreme poverty and beggery in Ireland, is intemperance." But Douglas was also fully aware of what was happening in Ireland at this time-the beginning of the great Potato Famine-and of the various political injustices that had been perpetrated on the island-"They have been long oppressed; and the same heart that prompts me to plead the cause of the American bondsman, makes it impossible not to sympathise with the oppressed of all lands." He confined these thoughts, though, to his letters to William Lloyd Garrison, using his public platform to focus for the most part on the issue of slavery.

Speaking in Belfast in December Douglas singled out the Free Church of Scotland, led by Thomas Chalmers, for particular criticism. Chalmers had received large donations from the American slave-owning states for his work among the urban poor in Scotland, which Douglas argued should all be sent back. Although well-received in Belfast it ensured he met with a hostile reception from Free Church members when he came to Scotland.

Douglas continued to take an interest in Irish affairs up to his death in 1895, speaking on the theme of Irish Home Rule on the same platform as Charles Stewart Parnell. Clio the Muse 23:27, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Date of Birth

I see a section here dedicated to year, but right now on the article, there are two different dates given for his birth: February 14th in the opening paragraph, and February 17th in the information box. Can we please fix this, with sources? Marsofel 04:20, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Move Over

Someone needs to move the picture and the beginning paragraph so its at the top (I forget how to at the moment), as when I cam eto the page I saw a big blank space and thought the article was only a picture. o_o;Silver seren 22:37, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

why is there a contradict flag on this article

What is the source of the contradiction? In the absence of a reply, I will remove the flag. Skywriter 20:33, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

I read through the article and I didn't see a contradiction in it? I wonder who put up the flag...Silver seren 23:22, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Maybe there was an earlier dispute since settled. I'll take it down and if someone wants to argue the point, I feel sure they'll slap it back up. Skywriter 23:48, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Or they might just do it if they feel like it. :/ I've seen it happen.Silver seren 23:51, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

If either of you troubled to take a look at the edit history, you'd see that the tag was placed there because the article lists two different DOBs for Douglass, February 14 (in the lead) and February 17 (in the infobox). Ford MF 00:42, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Why the hostility Fordmadoxfraud? It would have been easier for you to look up the date, as I just did, then to take a slap at colleagues and slap another tag on this page. If you are interested in the subject, you should be interested in adding facts.Skywriter 01:09, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Thats the big deal, the date? Thats slightly stupid. Why don't you just put that his birthdate is uncertain and that it could be either the 14th or the 17th. That would clear up any problems.Silver seren 02:09, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Education

As a grad student, I've been researching Douglass's view of and contributions to education for both slaves and free African Americans. I would very much like to add a few of my findings to this site. Here, as in so many areas, Douglass was a true visionary. Alhuga 13:49, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

ERRORS!!!

See http://www.history.rochester.edu/class/douglass/part1.html and compare it to this article. andkore 22:11, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

I have the quote from him as follows: 'At a time like this, scorching irony, not convincing argument, is > needed. Oh had I the ability, and could reach the nation’s ear, I > would, pour out a fiery stream of biting ridicule, blasting reproach, > withering sarcasm, and stern rebuke. For it is not light that is > needed, but fire; it is not the gentle shower, but thunder. We need > the storm, the whirlwind, and the earthquake'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.152.117.132 (talk) 13:01, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Adding material about estimating time of birth

I would like to see (or make, but I cannot edit the page,) some changes about F.D's time of birth. 1) I'd prefer the birth date listed at the top of the article to be changed to simply the month and year, February 1818, since the implication of it's being there is that he was known to be born then rather than that he chose to celebrate it on those anniversaries. 2) I'd like to promote the material about his birth date, and his choice of when to recognize it, to a section with a header. 3) I'd like to see the following facts about establishing his time of birth: Frederick Douglass published several opinions about his date of birth. In "Narrative of the life of Frederick Douglass, an American slave" he wrote,

I come to this [his estimate of his age], from hearing my master say, some time during 1835, I was about seventeen years old.

In "My bondage and my freedom" he wrote,

From certain events, however, the dates of which I have since learned, I suppose myself to have been born about the year 1817.

In "Life and Times of Frederick Douglass" he wrote,

From certain events, however, the dates of which I have since learned, I suppose myself to have been born in February, 1817.

Later the records of Douglass's former owner Aaron Anthony were examined by Dickson Preston, as reported in William McFeely's Frederick Douglass biography, and these indicated February of 1818 to be the birth date. Spandlingford 19:12, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

==

I made these changes Nov 6, 2007, deleting a footnote about his birthday after moving some text from that footnote into the new section I added about establishing his date of birth. PROBLEM: the template for giving a birthdate seemed to require a day-of-month, and so no established date can be given in this format. I think we need to have forms for date of birth that allow omission of day-of-month and for omitting month. Spandlingford 20:11, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Demote or remove speculation until it is verified

I think the speculation that Frederick Douglass was a muslim should be moved to an area lower in the article. While it is true that there is speculation, it is not a fact that deserves such prominence in the article. It detracts from the overall flavor of the article from one of truth and veracity to one that has notions that still need to be investigated. I think a note at the bottom would handle this speculation very nicely. Truth2112 23:22, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Emancipation Proclamation Date

This article says that it was December 31, 1862 while the main article says January 1, 1863... WHICH IS IT? There are different dates all over the web. Let's get it right. 204.152.12.95 (talk) 21:18, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Need assistance

This article has some vile stuff that appears early in the page as an article, but doesn't show up on the edit page; can someone who knows the finer points of editing fix this? Knapsack (talk) 03:14, 11 February 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Knapsack (talk • contribs) 03:11, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

It isn't clear what you're referring to. Could you be a little more explicit? Thanks. — Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs) 04:19, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Malik -- the page had this embedded in it -- [

] sans the [] (i see you'll have to go back to the edit page to even see it, since it doesn't show up even with the brackets around it -- which you can sandbox to see what it does, but it ain't nice and it ain't right. I just don't know enough about Wikiness to know how someone made that little insert work the way it does, and make sure it doesn't happen again. Knapsack (talk) 03:00, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

That's a template, and it helps readers navigate to other articles related to the subject of slavery. It doesn't mean that Douglass was involved in those practices. Is it distracting when you read the article? Why do you think it should be removed?

If you think there's a problem with the template itself, you could bring it up at Template talk:Slavery. For example, if you object to certain links in the template, or if you think the template belongs in articles about slavery but not in biographies, that would be the appropriate place to raise those concerns. — Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs) 21:27, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Contradictory birth years

The lead gives 1917, the section on his birthdate says 1918. --24.215.162.198 (talk) 17:42, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

I see February, 1818. (the exact date is not known)Fconaway (talk) 04:05, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

no no no

dude i am a more younger person and i see millions of mistakes this is why my teacher says dont use wikipedia for prodjects its unreliable p.s he was born in tuckahoe, maryland try reading his bio the narrative of the life of frederick douglass he wrote in 1845 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.125.77.96 (talk) 21:38, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Okay, thanks for the comment. Have you read the part about his date of birth, here?Fconaway (talk) 03:55, 16 February 2008 (UTC)