User talk:Rlendog

Welcome!

Hello, Rlendog, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

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Also, I made some modifications to your edits to the howler articles. - UtherSRG (talk) 13:02, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

commons

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see Wikipedia:Userboxes/Wikipedia/Miscellaneous

Springsteen song articles

I see that you're creating a bunch of articles for Springsteen songs. Please note that per WP:SONGS and WP:Notability (music), not all songs warrant articles, and there are many admins and editors out there who will try to delete them. Singles will survive, so "Fade Away" is okay, but run-of-the-mill album tracks like "Ramrod" probably will not. Only album tracks that are especially notable or famous or an example of his work will be viewed as warranting articles, so for example "The River" will be okay. But obscurities like "Be True" are likely to get junked. Just want to keep you from doing work that gets lost ... Wasted Time R (talk) 15:06, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Doctor Who newsletter, March 2008

	The Space-Time Telegraph
	The WikiProject Doctor Who newsletter
	Issue 1	March 2008
Project News We have five new participants: Sm9800, Seanor3, T saston, Type 40, Jammy0002. One editor has left the project: StuartDD. The Doctor Who portal has expanded to increase the number of selected stories to 33. Articles of note New featured articles None New featured article candidates Voyage of the Damned (Doctor Who) (FAC) New good articles Dalek (Doctor Who episode) Astrid Peth Delisted articles None Proposals A proposal for changing the layout of the episode pages is under way here. A discussion about the formatting of the cast lists in episode pages is under way here. A discussion to move United Nations Intelligence Taskforce to UNIT is under way here. News The Torchwood project has become a task-force under the project's scope. The Torchwood series 2 finale airs on 4th April, and the 4th series of Doctor Who will start to air on 5th April. For the Doctor Who project, Sceptre (talk) 19:16, 4 April 2008 (UTC) You have received this letter because you are on the newsletter recipients list. To opt-out, please remove your name.

"new" sportive lemurs

Why not Louis, Jr, 2006 for the authority? Look at sportive lemur's ** note. He's the primary author. - UtherSRG (talk) 01:48, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Sorry about that. I thought I had left that as a stray reference when I copied the taxobox. I restored the references to Louis.Rlendog (talk) 02:01, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Ok. Also, they should be in Category:Prosimians. - UtherSRG (talk) 02:15, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

marsupial lion

In regards to "nor are many going to be aware that Marsupial Lion and Marsupial lion are necessarily two different things", but they are not two different things. As of yet everyone has failed to defend the keeping of marsupial lion as a redirect to "Thylacoleonidae". They always defend it by saying "marsupial lions" which I have already pointed out is already redirected to it, or as Uther said "marsupial lion family". There are not other species deserving the common name "Marsupial Lion", T.carnifex is the largest species of the so called "marsupial lions" and is the most deserving of the name. In fact if it were not for this species I doubt the common name "marsupial lions" would have even come about to describe the family. By the way, I am curious to find out exactly how you came about this page? Cazique (talk) 05:49, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

WP:FILMS Welcome

Welcome!

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There is a variety of interesting things to do within the project; you're free to participate however much—or little—you like:

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If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask another fellow member, and we'll be happy to help you. Again, welcome! We look forward to seeing you around! Nehrams2020 (talk) 00:34, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

message

I'm sending this to all the wikiproject:mammals participants. There's a naming guideline up for discussion on the talk page, and the more people get involved the more valid any consensus drawn. Ironholds 19:14, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Films June 2008 Newsletter

The June 2008 issue of the Films WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Happy editing! --Nehrams2020 (talk) 00:03, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

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DYK

On 15 July, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Agile Mangabey, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Gatoclass (talk) 03:44, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Baseball Newsletter

The Baseball WikiProject Newsletter Issue I – July 2008

"A home opener is always exciting, no matter if it's home or on the road." - Yogi Berra News and announcements Welcome to the first Baseball WikiProject Newsletter, dated Tuesday, July 15, 2008. The Article Improvement Drive has been revived. Check it out! The Outreach department is in the works, please contribute your ideas! Featured content In the past month, WikiProject Baseball has had the following articles promoted to Featured Article status: Art Houtteman 1926 World Series St. Louis Cardinals seasons Philadelphia Phillies seasons List of Major League Baseball players from Puerto Rico This month's newsletter was designed and written by Wizardman, jj137, and Blackngold29. If you would like to contribute to future newsletters, please contact the Baseball WP outreach dept.

News from the diamond The 79th MLB All-star Game is scheduled for this evening. The 2008 Home Run Derby took place yesterday. Justin Morneau defeated Josh Hamilton in the final round, 5 home runs to 3, although Hamilton broke a record with 28 home runs hit in the first round. From the Editors Baseball has a history unlike any other sport. It has been played in countless countries throughout the decades, and it will undoubtedly continue play for many more. On this eve, some the finest players the sport has to offer will take the field at the Yankee Stadium. Four popes spoke there, Pelé scored goals there, "The Greatest [football] Game Ever Played" was battled out there, John Philip Sousa lead a band there, George Costanza worked there; but what do all these events have in common? They fail to reach the level of greatness that the baseball that was played there did. In 1923, a man named Babe Ruth decided to build a new house, and over the years, that house was a home to some of the greatest baseball ever played. If I were to list out all of these great moments, it would be longer than the bill for the New Yankee Stadium. So I'll sum it up by saying that we can remember these great moments by adding them to this place we've gathered at for future generations to read about, to learn about, to dream about; but more importantly we can watch tonight and we can remember how baseball is unlike anything else that we will encounter in our lives. — Blackngold29

--  jj137 (talk) 03:19, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

South American Coati

On 17 July, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article South American Coati, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--BorgQueen (talk) 05:55, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

DYK twofer

On 19 July, 2008, Did you know? was updated with facts from the articles Antarctic Minke Whale, and Common Minke Whale, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Gatoclass (talk) 02:31, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

citations

I've just had a look at some of the nice contributions you've made recently to wiki. A small note on citations. While it obviously is possible, in general people don't write the entire citation if used more than once in an article. If having written the entire citations once, you can avoid doing it again by using the first part of the original citation with an /. For example, this is an example of a complete citation, and this is the short form that can be used afterwards (difference visible in edit mode). Certainly not a major issue, but it makes it a bit easier for later editors to check and read in the edit mode. Rabo3 (talk) 20:00, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

sample

Thank you for the compliment and for the examples for using references better. That should make things easier! Rlendog (talk) 22:33, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

recent edits

Aw gee... they can't all be asses... some of them must be halfway decent. ;) Good job! :) - UtherSRG (talk) 19:03, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! I hope my "s" key wasn't sticking too often when I typed that. :) I was trying to get us down to only 2 pages of unassessed articles, and I think I succeeded for now. In some cases there were articles with quite a bit of information but few citations. I usually made those "start", but maybe the new "C" is more appropriate. But I don't think we have approved use fo teh C rating in the Primate project. Rlendog (talk) 22:35, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

DYK

On 28 July, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Johnny 99 (song), which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Gatoclass (talk) 08:21, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

DYK

On 31 July, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Songs of Franz Liszt, which you recently nominated. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Wafulz (talk) 13:03, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

4th of July, Asbury Park (Sandy) DYK

On 1 August, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article 4th of July, Asbury Park (Sandy), which you recently nominated. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Congratulations! PeterSymonds (talk) 01:51, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Films July 2008 Newsletter

The July 2008 issue of the Films WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 02:34, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

DYK? nom (Black Lemur)

On 5 August, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Black Lemur, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

I'm suprised it took so long to get such an important (to me) article up to a decent size. Thanks for your work at the article and at making Wikipedia better -- CB (ö) 07:50, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Bruce Springsteen discography

Billboard's Rock Tracks chart started March 21, 1981 so it missed out on the tracks from The River that got the most airplay like "Hungry Heart" and "The River" but reflects the second tier of tracks that were getting airplay in early '81. I'm using Joel Whitburn's Rock Tracks book as my source. For some reason Billboard's online archive is incomplete prior to 1984 (even if you have a subscription). I don't see "Jersey Girl" listed but I'm sure it got airplay in some cities. Piriczki (talk) 01:50, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

I just came across this discussion but here: http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=11:jifpxqr5ldae~T51. This is from allmusic which has all the american chart positions from the 60s, pop singles is now known as Billboard Hot 100. --Be Black Hole Sun (talk) 09:03, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the link. Ironically, I have been to the allmusic site a lot and never noticed that folder. Rlendog (talk) 00:57, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Rock music WikiProject

I'd like to invite you to join the newly-formed Rock music WikiProject. There's alot of Rock-related articles on Wikipedia that could use a little attention, and I hope this project can help organize an effort to improve them. So please, take a look and if you like what you see, help us get this project off the ground and a few Rock music pages into the front ranks of Wikipedia articles. Thanks! --Be Black Hole Sun (talk) 09:03, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Sure. I didn't see a sign up area, but consider me part of the team! Rlendog (talk) 03:52, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Good, here Wikipedia:WikiProject Rock music/Members, this is where you sign. --Be Black Hole Sun (talk) 13:15, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Oh, and another thing when you add the WPRock template you should assese thea article. We have to many unassessed articles. Take a look at the Category:Unassessed Rock music articles. I noticed this when i assessed those Bruce Springsteen studio albums. But its good that you added those WPRock templates so keep up your good work on wikipedia. :] --Be Black Hole Sun (talk) 13:46, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Are there formal assessment criteria (especially for importance)? Rlendog (talk) 17:58, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Well for a artist or album to be importent you need to look at sales, importance in music culture and so on. Its not hard, but Springsteens newest studio album is a mid, why, well cause of its sales and it didn't produce a hit single of any kind.

If you didn't get it just say so. --Be Black Hole Sun (talk) 18:42, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

The four different importance levels. --Be Black Hole Sun (talk) 18:42, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Low

Mid

High

Top

Great job on assessing those articles, thanks. --Be Black Hole Sun (talk) 18:56, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

DYK hooks

Rlendog, I left a couple notes at DYK regarding the Jillian Clare & Common Brown Lemur articles you nominated. Any questions, let me know. Mitico (talk) 13:20, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

I 'yes ticked" the Lemur article. The taxonomy is interesting, but I think you are right about it being too difficult/technical to explain in a dyk hook. For the Jillian Clare article, per Art Lapella's description - I think changing the list of awards noms to prose will suffice. I'll keep a watch out and green tick then. Thanks. Mitico (talk) 00:37, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Common Brown Lemur DYK

On 8 August, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Common Brown Lemur, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Congratulations! PeterSymonds (talk) 20:52, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

DYK: Kashmir Gray Langur

On 9 August, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Kashmir Gray Langur, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--PFHLai (talk) 04:58, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

DYK: Jillian Clare

On 10 August, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Jillian Clare, which you recently nominated. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--PFHLai (talk) 20:38, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

DYK: The Black Six

On 11 August, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article The Black Six, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--PFHLai (talk) 00:12, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Brilliant Disguise, Tunnel of Love (Bruce Springsteen song)

On 11 August, 2008, Did you know? was updated with facts from the articles Brilliant Disguise, and Tunnel of Love (Bruce Springsteen song), which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--BorgQueen (talk) 06:54, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Primate work

Hi Rlendog, great work so far on the Primate article! I was just thinking we have to be careful about not doing the same bit of the GA review at the same time, we're almost editing over each other! Anyway I'm stopping now, good luck for the rest of the review :) Cheers, Jack (talk) 01:22, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

DYK Redtail Splitfin

On 16 August, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Redtail Splitfin, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

- Mitico (talk) 20:06, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Least Killifish DYK

On 17 August, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Least Killifish, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Congratulations! PeterSymonds (talk) 00:29, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Fish-related suggestions in AFC.

Hi there, I see you're part of Wikiproject:Fishes, and I also see that you're one of the most recently-active participants in the project. In that case, you may be able to help me here. In AFC, there has been two suggestions given for types of Cardinalfish. The problem is, that I'm not sure if the common names for the two species are widely-used common names or just names used by the website. Therefore, I'm not sure if these articles are suitable for creation, or should be part of a genus article, or even the Cardinalfish page itself. I have a copy of the two submissions on one of my sandboxes, here: [1] Would you please look them over, and tell me what you think? Thanks! Mess around with the guy in shades all you like - don't mess around with the girl in gloves! (talk) 07:43, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

I know a lot more about freshwater fish than saltwater. But the common names you have are correct. Fishbase is about as authoritative a site as there is on these issues. Also, the Pajama Cardinalfish is actual pretty common, so I am familar with that name, and I found the Orbiculate Cardinalfish in a book I have (Marine Fish by Scott Michael). The information you provide for the articles is also correct according to FishBase and my other book. A few point:

1. I would capitalize the "C" in Cardinalfish in the titles. I always capitalize all words in the common names of species in the titles and no one ever complained. I am not sure if this is the case for the Fish project, but for some other projects (i.e., Birds, Primates) this is actually the standard.
2. For the orbiculate cardinalfish, the area the fish is found per Fishbase seems to be more of a continuous range than the separate islands you refer to. But I wouldn't say "throughout the Indo-Pacific" either since the "throughout" implies a wider range than the fish seems to have. The Michael book just gives the range as "Indo-west-Pacific". Going by the map in Fishbase (and the text) it seems to live over a wide area in the Indo-Pacific, but close to shores (i.e., it doesn't seem to show up in mid-ocean far from either an island or continent). I think a safe way to summarize all this is "Orbiculate cardinalfish are found in many costal areas of the Indo-Pacific, including East Africa, Kiribati, the Ryukyu Islands, Caledonia, Belau, eastern Caroline and Mariana Islands."
3. You might also want to mention that "The orbiculate cardinalfish eats mostly planktonic crstaceans, eating mostly at night."
4. Also instead of saying "dark spotted 'waistband'", I'd say "dark vertical waistband". The Michael book has a photo of the fish, and the waistband itself is not spotted (although there are spots behind it, that you already refer to separately), but I think the word "vertical" is important to give a full description. If you really want to change another word from what Fishbase has, maybe say "black, vertical 'waistband'". You may also want to give its size of 10 centimeters.
5. If you want some info from the Michael book, you can state that they are recommended fish for a saltwater aquarium. The citation would be {{cite book|title=Marine Fishes|author=Michael, S.|year=1999|publisher=Microcosm|page=p. 151|isbn=1-890087-38-6}}
6. For the Pajama Cardinalfish, the range is fine, although if you want to be extra careful about avoiding possible copying accusations, maybe say it as "The Pajama cardinalfish is distributed throughout the West Pacific, from Java to Fiji, and the Ryukyu Islands to the Great Barrier Reef." Although what you wrote is probably fine as is anyway.
7. Just as a style point, I'd swap the first and last sentences. That it is a popular aquarium fish can be the lead, and the red eyes can go after the sentence describing the body to complete the description.
8. Also with the description, I would note that it grows to 8.5 centimeters total length (in fish TL, or total length, is the length including the tail; sometimes you see SL, or standard length, which is the length excluding the tail).

There are some pictures you can link to in Commons for the articles, especially any infobox:

Pajama Cardinalfish

Orbiculate Cardinalfish (not so great, but you can see the solid, non-spotted waistband that is also thinner than in the pajama cardinalfish:

Very nice job by the way. I'm glad to see that you are willing to return to creating articles despite the recent dramas. Rlendog (talk) 01:21, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Request for participation in User:Abd/RfC

Because my participation as a Wikipedia editor has been questioned, and if I continue as I have in the past, I can expect future challenges as well, I have begun a standing RfC in my user space, at User:Abd/RfC. There is also a specific incident RfC at User:Abd/RfC/8.11.08 block. I understand that you may not have time to participate directly; however, if you wish to be notified of any outcome from the general or specific RfC, or if you wish to identify a participant or potential participant as one generally trusted by you, or otherwise to indicate interest in the topic(s), please consider listing yourself at User:Abd/RfC/Proxy Table, and, should you so decide, naming a proxy as indicated there. Your designation of a proxy will not bind you, and your proxy will not comment or vote for you, but only for himself or herself; however, I may consider proxy designations in weighing comment in this RfC, as to how they might represent the general community. You may revoke this designation at any time. This RfC is for my own guidance as to future behavior and actions, it is advisory only, upon me and on participants. This notice is going to all those who commented on my Talk page in the period between my warning for personal attack, assumptions of bad faith, and general disruption, on August 11, 2008, until August 20, 2008. This is not a standard RfC; because it is for my advice, I assert authority over the process. However, initially, all editors are welcome, even if otherwise banned from my Talk space or from the project. Canvassing is permitted, as far as I'm concerned; I will regulate participation if needed, but do not spam. Notice of this RfC may be placed on noticeboards or wikiprojects, should any of you think this appropriate; however, the reason for doing this in my user space is to minimize disruption, and I am not responsible for any disruption arising from discussion of this outside my user space. Thanks for considering this. --Abd (talk) 02:46, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

DYK

On 25 August, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Kelvin Chapman, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Gatoclass (talk) 06:34, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

On 26 August, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article One Step Up, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Mspraveen (talk) 07:00, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Primate

Thanks so much Rlendog, that's very sweet. But really it's you who should be getting the star, you did amazing work on Primate (and were very patient with my slow response!) and you've been doing great DYK work lately too it seems! I realized I had screwed up and forgotten to check the images! Most were fine but I did find one for which I thought the fair use rationale was not valid, so I removed the image and tagged it: Image:Caged monkeys.jpg. I think the article's fine without the image, but another one of monkeys in labs or cages could be found if you want. I'm sorry, what an awful slip up. :( You can take the star back if you want. :P Anyway, keep up the great work, see you around soon I hope! delldot talk 23:05, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Ring-tailed lemur page

Thanks for the additional clean-up on the Ring-tailed lemur page today, as well as the bump up on the rating scale. Out of curiosity, what would it take (in your opinion) to get the article rated as "feature article" status? I've read the criteria, but I guess I don't have the critical eye to see what is sought. If you (and others) could give me a target to clearly aim at, I'll make sure we hit it dead center. One thing I can see is that we need better pictures and diagrams. If you know a good illustrator who'd be willing to help, please put them in touch with me. I have ideas, but lack the skills to implement them. Otherwise, I've been promised photos from a well-known photographer at the Duke Lemur Center. They won't be his best photos, because he wants to reserve all rights on those, but we should get some decent ones for many lemur species. The other thing I know we need is a better "Auditory communication" section, which I plan to write soon, in addition to some clean-up on the main article (Calls of the Ring-tailed Lemur). I was also thinking about getting video of a stink fight, spur marking, and scent marking for the page.

Whatever you spell out here will be taken into consideration as I work on my next major edit -- Black and white ruffed lemur. The information is coming together quickly, and I may start this week. The only hold-up, at this point, is the need for new photos, which should be coming from Duke. Just so you know, when the edit is finished, the page will look nothing like what it does now.

Visionholder (talk) 18:58, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm not really sure what it takes to get an article to Featured Article status, but the first step would be to get it to Good Article status. I only had my first experience with a Good Article review recently, with Primate. That may have been more complicated than an article dealing with a single species, since it is covering such a broad topic. But I did learn a few things. The lead for Ring-tailed Lemur needs to be expanded to basically summarize the entire article (or at least the important parts). I was going to take a stab at that tonight, but I'm not sure I'll be able to get to it until tomorrow or Friday. A few more in-line citations are probably needed - I think the sections on diet, olafactory communincations and maybe physical appearance probably can use some more. It would be good (but I don't think necessary) to address the red links. And I think the article could use a map of the range (I wish I knew how to create those), but I am not sure it is necessary to get to GA. Either way, there will probably be additional requests for clarifications, rewording, additional information, additional citations and possibly some reorganization during the review.

I looked for other mammal species articles that are currently listed as GA that could be used as a guide. Unfortunately, there aren't many GAs (there are a number of FAs) and many of became GA a few years ago, when the criteria were apparently less stringent (some may eventually be delisted). A couple that did seem particularly good were Walrus and Philippine Tarsier.

With respect to photos, I would check with User:UtherSRG. I only use photos that are listed on Wikipedia Commons, since those should have all the proper permissions. I am not sure how it works when the photographer gives you permission to use the photos. I am sure there is a way to use them, but Uther would probably know better (or else would know who else to ask).

In any case, I think this is an important candidate for moving to GA. So whatever I can do to help make that happen, let me know. Rlendog (talk) 02:22, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

I was also considering re-wording the lead and even the physical description section. If you beat me to the lead, then great! A map of the home range was one of my ideas, as well as a visual size scale (comparing to an average human). I might be able to do the home range image, basing it on the map shown in "Lemurs of Madagascar" by Mittermeier, et al. Again, I'd prefer to enlist the help of a skilled illustrator.

As for in-line citations, the reason I didn't use more citations was because entire blocks of information often came from the same source. Therefore, I'd put the citation at the end of the paragraph. Essentially, everything I wrote should be cited... though maybe not properly. Feel free to fix that; and I will learn from your edits and implement them in my future revisions.

Lastly, all of the pictures (and audio files) I have used and will use are on WikiCommons. I've gone through the process of getting permission from the copyright owners of the audio files and forwarded it on to Wiki (to get OTRS tickets). The handling of images should be no different. Visionholder (talk) 03:57, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

DYK

On 28 August, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Dan Norman, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Keep up the good work! Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 01:32, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Toilet-claw article - creation & deletion

Maybe you can help me out. I created a brief page (a primate stub) similar to the toothcomb stub created by UtherSRG. I stated the basic information about the toilet-claw and even referenced a journal article. It had a references section and listed 3 appropriate categories. I thought it was a sufficient start for a page that I planned to later come back and fill in as I obtained photos and worked on more detailed text. The page content was not redundant or "gibberish", as claimed by the warning that I got on my talk page from Josh3580.

Did I do anything wrong? Can I appeal the deletion? I spent an hour on that page, making sure it was worded, cited, and linked properly. Needless to say, I'm not happy. Feel free to discuss this on my user page. (I'm asking you specifically because we have a working history on the Ring-tailed lemur page.) Thank you for your time. Visionholder (talk) 05:43, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Thank you very much for helping me out with this. I'll put that page (and the toothcomb page) on my list of upcoming revisions. Unfortunately, I had an opportunity to photograph a toilet-claw on a lemur I was assigned to, but I missed the chance. I will see if I can get a picture from a researcher to help give a visual for anyone reading that stub. Again, I appreciate your help. Visionholder (talk) 19:14, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

DYK

On 29 August, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Jack DiLauro, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Cheers! --Royalbroil 05:07, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

new "major update" to Ring-tailed lemur

I just stayed up all night making some of the changes you and I recently discussed to the Ring-tailed Lemur page. I've rewritten both the lead and the "Physical description" section, added content to the "Auditory communication" section, fixed a few links & refs, relocated the "Taxonomy" section, and created a range map. I'm looking forward to seeing your edits and comments.

One thing that I feel needs work is the references. Some look redundant (on the surface) -- such as the Groves refs -- so I was wondering if we could consolidate or distinguish them. Also, the only difference between the Cawthorn refs is the access date. Could we just update the previous ref (with the older access date) to match the new one, especially since the web document hasn't been modified since the first set of refs? Visionholder (talk) 15:43, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

It looks great! I'm not sure what else could or should be done to improve. I guess the way to go would be to nominate for a good article review and see what happens. With respect to the references, I was concerned about that with the Grove references. But they do reference different pages. I don't have the page numbers to incorporate (I do this through the weeb link and I don't see page numbers there) but I added a comment to the refs to try to distinguish them. The Cawthorn pages actually are different (see the last word of the blue link). The first is the Lemur catta taxonomy, morphology and ecology page, the 2nd is the Lemur catta behavior page, and the last is the Lemur catta conservation page. By the way, that map looks great. How did you do it? There are a lot of primate articles would benefit from a map but I haven't figured out how to make them (I draw terribly). Rlendog (talk) 18:51, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

The range map was created in Photoshop, though it could just as easily (or more easily?) have been created in MS Paint. I searched WikiCommons for a map of Madagascar that I liked (showing state borders and rivers), and fortunately what I found was in the public domain. I just zoomed in on the map and started coloring (carefully) with a paintbrush tool. (The ?'s were added with a text tool.) I saved the work when finished, and uploaded as a derived image on WikiCommons.

You don't have to worry about the other lemur pages -- I'll gladly do those. If one is a priority, and you can't wait for me to get around to it, just tell me of its importance, and I'll make time. In fact, I also owe you a few favors, so if you still have problems creating these maps, I'd be willing to make a couple for you, as long as you can point me to a source for that primate so I know what to draw. Best wishes! Visionholder (talk) 22:03, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

I have no doubt you'll make great maps for the lemur pages! When you found the map you liked, how did you get it in into Photoshop (or MSPaint)? I assumed people did this on Wikipedia, but I guess not. But I don't even know how to download a map to even start painting. Rlendog (talk) 02:29, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Just right-click on the full-size image and "Save As" to whatever destination you want on your computer. As long as the file is a .png, .jpg, .gif, .tif, or .bmp file, you can open it directly from Paint. (It's probably best to save in .png format, which is a patent-free format and perfect for range maps.) Just make sure that whatever you download is in the public domain, and when you upload your modified map, you upload it as a derived image (pointing to the original). I'm sure there are more professional ways to make range maps, using GPS input, etc. In fact, I think I saw that some maps on Wiki are made with some online software... but I wasn't able to figure it out, and I didn't know the GPS coordinates to make an appropriate range map anyway. Therefore, I just duplicated what I saw in Mittermeier's lemur guide and cited it. Hope this helps. Visionholder (talk) 03:19, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! Rlendog (talk) 03:27, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Films roll call and coordinator elections

Girolamo Savonarola (talk) 05:34, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Films August 2008 Newsletter

The August 2008 issue of the Films WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 01:09, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Revert

Hi, I reverted this edit, as you put the assessment on the wrong page. I’ve updated the assessment template on the talk page with your version. — H92 (t · c · no) 16:36, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Ruffed lemurs (upcoming major revision)

To continue the discussion we had started on my talk page... I've been looking over all of my sources, and aside from coat coloration, geographic range, and possibly the number of plant species they feed on, I haven't found many differences between the two species of Varecia. If you know sources that document the differences, I would appreciate the references.

At this point, when I make the major revisions for Varecia variegata and Varecia rubra, the pages may be worded nearly identically (with the differences noted above) and will have different pictures. I can make the Varecia page a more general version of the (sub)species pages, too, plus talk more about hybridization zones, evolution, etc.

Your thoughts/comments? Visionholder (talk) 08:19, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Sorry it's taken a while to get back to you. I had missed your note behind the next one. My personal view is that repetition is not a problem here. We seem to have taken a view, within the Primate project and Tree of Life in general, that each individual species article is important. So I think it is appropriate to have full information in each species article. Of course, to the extent there have been studies of a specific species, the result of those studies can also be used as a differentiating factor.

That said, I suspect that more people looking for information about either species of ruffed lemur will simply type in "ruffed lemur" rather than typing something like "black-and-white ruffed lemur". They may not even be aware of the need to do so. So I think it is important to have as complete an article for "ruffed lemur", because people who go there and want additional details would not even necessarily know whether they ought to go to "black-and-white ruffed lemur" or to "red ruffed lemur" to fill themselves in. And then if any of the "black-and-white ruffed lemur" subspecies get elevated to species level it will be even more complicated for users to figure out where to go. So my own personal bias would be that if any general information will not be repeated, it is better off in the general "ruffed lemur" article than the individual species articles. It would be more obvious to anyone who goes directly to the individual species article to go to the genus article for more info than vice versa.

But, as I said above, I personally have no problem with repetition. I think over time the articles will diverge appropriately on their own anyway. When I was splitting the Minke Whale articles (not a genus but a below genus clade) into separate species articles - Common Minke Whale and Antarctic Minke Whale - I left a lot of repetitious material, and no one has complained yet. I even got a WP:DYK credit for my troubles. Rlendog (talk) 17:44, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your feedback. I've gotten a little behind on those major revisions due to a number of job/volunteer openings popping up, which has tied me up with resumes, cover letters, etc. I've started to research each type of ruffed lemur, and I'm busy looking for information to distinguish them. Hopefully this coming week I'll be able to write the articles.

As for the reclassification of subspecies as species, that appears to be a very tricky topic with lemurs. Besides conservation groups trying to gain extra government protection by pushing for species status on many subspecies, there also appear to be hybridization and gene flow, despite what appear to be genetic differences that would normally merit species status. In many cases, I suspect we're looking at ring species that are now in the gradual process of full speciation due to fragmentation of their environment by humans. Do we jump the gun and label them as species for environmental protection, or do we push for more radical changes to reconnect their home ranges so that the "ring" and its consequent gene flow be reestablished? I'll talk to some researchers and search for more articles, and then I might include this kind of information on the Ruffed lemur page. Visionholder (talk) 18:35, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

It can't hurt to add the information to the articles. But I wouldn't jump the gun on labeling as species. We would still need a reliable, verifiable source for the new species, and if they haven't been officially classified yet, it is probably premature. But subspecies can have their own articles too, even if they aren't full species. Rlendog (talk) 19:32, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

I wouldn't label them as species. That's the job of researchers and panels of experts. Anyway, personally, I'm a clumper. I'm not wholy convinced the ruffed lemurs should have been split into 2 species. But if it buys more environmental protection, then great! I'm just here to report what's in the literature. Cheers! Visionholder (talk) 20:48, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

I can see why the black and white ruffed lemur was split from the red, since their coloration is so different, even if little else is. But I tend to be a clumper too. And while I understand the benefits to environmental protection from splitting, that also makes me cynical about the process. And I think eventually it can backfire. Rlendog (talk) 02:01, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

About the backfiring, I completely agree. As for the split in genus Varecia, I plan to give as much information about their differences as well when I re-write the pages. In fact, there are even a few differences in their vocalizations, but the differences are slight. It definitely suggests ongoing speciation, but the existence of hybrids at the boundaries with V. v. subcincta, as well as the reddish-brown tint seen in the coat varieties shown in Mittermeier's "Lemurs of Madagascar", suggests to me they're not fully there yet. Personally, I'd like to see a new definition of the term "species", especially for current and former ring species. Visionholder (talk) 05:15, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Geoffroy's Spider Monkey

On 3 September, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Geoffroy's Spider Monkey, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 12:06, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

On 9 September, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article White-headed Capuchin, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

-- you were lucky to get this in, but it is a nice article. Good work Victuallers (talk) 07:57, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Mantled Howler

On 10 September, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Mantled Howler, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 04:59, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

DYK

On 11 September, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Roy Staiger, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Congratulations and keep up the good work! Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 01:40, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Spirit in the Night

On 11 September, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Spirit in the Night, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--BorgQueen (talk) 19:33, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

The 25 DYK Medal

		The 25 DYK Medal
		Awarded to Rlendog for the 25 hooks that would not have appeared on DYK without him. From baseball bios to Springsteen songs to major missing mammals (& a few fish)—thank you for all you do! I look forward to the next 25. JayHenry (talk) 16:07, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

update on Ring-tailed Lemur

Yesterday, Ring-tailed Lemur passed its GA review and was upgraded. I am now ready to make a push for FA status, although I realize there is a lot of work ahead. I'm seeking help from the FA-team, and have posted a proposal on their proposal site. I hope you don't mind, but I listed you as an editor ("general support"), with me as the "primary editor." If you would prefer that I remove your name from the proposal, just say. I am willing to take as much of the responsibility as needed to meet their recommendations, even if it's 100%. I just didn't want to slight you as an editor of the page, and I didn't want the proposal to look like I'm the only one editing the page. Just let me know how you feel about this, please. - Visionholder (talk) 20:28, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

That's great. I just saw a little while ago that the article got upgraded and was going to send you a note to congratulate you. I didn't even realize that the GA review had started when I saw that it had passed. That was quick! Primate took about a month and probably a good 200 edits between me, User:Jackhynes and others to get to GA status. So it's great that Ring-tailed Lemur passed so quickly and a testiment to all the great work you did on that article. I look forwarded to participating in the FA team for it. I never worked on getting an article up to GA, so this should be interesting. And, of course, the subject of the article is wonderful. I'll just point out that I will be traveling much of the rest of September, so may not have as much time to devote as I'd like. But I'll do what I can. Rlendog (talk) 01:39, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

One more question while I'm conversing with you - I see you made a comment about ruffed lemur having "flagship status". I was curious what that meant. Rlendog (talk) 01:42, 16 September 2008 (UTC)