Talk:Diana, Princess of Wales

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February 2003 – August 2006

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Ethnic Ancestry

Does Diana have Armenian ancestry??? The Armenian Wikipedia says she does.Just want confirmation.

Doubt it, but the royal famaly originally came from Germany. Wardhog 18:04, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

She does have Armenian ancestory, 1/64th, her great grandmother was Eliza Kevorkian (Kewark, angloized version). They were married at the Armenian Apostolic Church in Surat, India. Really its irrevalent seeing as to how she is a English now, but since you asked.

Oh, one more thing, if you wanted to REALLY get details, I am 100% sure the Armenian Apostolic Church has Eliza Kevorkians marridge records somwhere on file. It would take time, but more than likly you can find it if you went and asked around the church.

Pictures

I think more photos would be a good idea; of the car crash, funeral, wedding, children, ect. Right now we have only the torch and the wedding picture in addition to the main photos.

Not likely - getting pictures of recent royals on Wikipedia is not exactly the easiest thing ever... – DBD 01:28, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

I found some on wikimedia commons and in her children's wikipedia articles. Bobbacon 19:17, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Why don't you upload a one. I have some in a book at home but my scanner isn't the best Wardhog 18:04, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Good Article nomination has failed

The Good article nomination for Diana, Princess of Wales has failed, for the following reason:

This article needs a work on its structure. For example, the lead section see WP:LEAD should be only two paragraphs long, the lineage section belongs as a part of her early life, etc. There are also very few references and those used are of secondary quality. I suggest much of the material in the lead be moved to the body of the article and citations from books and other print sources be added. --CTSWyneken^(talk) 19:21, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Last Will and Testament of Princess Diana

We wish to advise everyone that we (the Living Trust Network) have a copy of Princes Diana's Last Will and Testament posted on our website, which we believe is of interest to anyone seeking information about the life of Princess Diana. We have also discussed our desire to post a link to Princess Diana's Last Will and Testament with Wikipedia administrators {See User talk:Livingtrust], either under "references" or "external links." Last Will and Testament of Princess Diana. Wikipedia does not object to the link but has requested that we not put the link up ourselves since we are a commercial website. Instead, it has requested that we make it known that the Last Will and Testament is available, and anyone who wishes to add the link to the "reference" section or the "external links" section may do so. So, we solicite your help in adding the link set forth above. Thanks. Livingtrust 03:34, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

I noticed that the link to Princess Diana's will has been removed. I'm putting it back because I believe it provides a much needed service. 65.35.52.59 17:57, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Was Diana technically a princess following her divorce.

Despite all that below, I don't think she was a princess, but just styled as one. Bearing in mind she would have lost that style should she have remarried AND that if the Prince of Wales had married again his new wife would have been the incumbent Princess of Wales. Also, a similar parallel can be drawn with the former Duchess of York. Although titled Sarah, Duchess of York, she is not entitled to even the style "Your Grace" but simply "Duchess" (which is probably why Diana is addressed as "Princess" on the Monarchy website). The wife of the Prince of Wales is by definition the Princess of Wales, no other. I can see how the denying of HRH is the same in the cases of Diana and the Duchess of Windsor, but Wallis was definitely a Duchess because she was definitely married till death to the Duke of Windsor, but we cannot be sure Diana was still a Princess as she was no longer still married to a prince. Perhaps the letters patent was reinforcing the denial of HRH because it was a form of address which would have definitely implied she was still the Prince of Wales's wife, whereas the christian name format is used all over by divorced peeresses.

Please look the official British Monarchy web Page. In which is very clear that Diana, was still The Princess of Wales at the time of her dead. Look this The Princess of Wales had two sons. Prince William Arthur Philip Louis was born on 21 June 1982 and Prince Henry (Harry) Charles Albert David on 15 September 1984, both at St Mary's Hospital, Paddington, in London. The Princess had seventeen godchildren.

In December 1992 it was announced that The Prince and Princess of Wales had agreed to separate. The Princess based her household and her office at Kensington Palace, while The Prince was based at St James's Palace and continued to live at Highgrove.

In November 1995, the Princess gave a television interview during which she spoke of her unhappiness in her personal life and the pressures of her public role. The Prince and Princess were divorced on 28 August 1996.

The Prince and Princess continued to share equal responsibility for the upbringing of their children. The Princess, as the mother of Prince William (second in line to the throne), continued to be regarded as a member of the Royal family. The Queen, The Prince and The Princess of Wales agreed that the Princess was to be known after the divorce as Diana, Princess of Wales, without the style of 'Her Royal Highness' (as the Princess was given the style 'HRH' on marriage she would therefore be expected to give it up on divorce). The Princess continued to live at Kensington Palace, with her office based thereThis Part is taken from " http://www.royal.gov.uk/output/page156.asp" This is because she got the title "The Princess of Wales" at the time she accepts The Prince of Wales in the ANGLICAN CATHOLIC MARRIAGE and in the United Kingdom you continued to be Married in Religion untill the dead of any of the parners. Another case in which you can see the samething is when Wallis Simpson married the Prince Edward she could not be Known as HRH so she was Known all her life during her marriage unitll her dead as only "WALLIS, DUCHESS OF WINDSOR" with this name she was also buired.

Following her divorce from the Prince of Wales, Diana became Diana, Princess of Wales without the style of Royal Highness. But what I am not clear about is whether or not she was still a princess. Letter patent issued in 1996 indicated former wives of princes would cease to be royal highnesses on divorce. It did not specifically state they would be cease to princesses. I believe there is a difference (HRH and title of prince/ess are two seperate entities) as Prince Phillip was originally created a Royal Highness and the Duke of Edinburgh but he was not a created a prince. The Queen recified this latter on when she specifically created him a prince of great britain. Any views or advice on this.

Diana was never a princess to begin with. She was a "Princess by marriage" as opposed to a "Princess of the blood" (as Princess Margaret was or Princess Anne is). Princess of the blood are the daughters of reigning kings or queens. Diana was only the spouse of a "Prince of the blood", so she technically was The Princess Charles, The Princess of Wales and Countess of Chester, etc. For more information on this, check out the Wikipedia article British princess, it will give you more information on the subject. - Prsgoddess187 17:25, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Of course she was a princess. The fact that she was a princess by marriage rather than a princess by birth doesn't mean she wasn't a princess (hence the word "princess" in "princess by marriage"). Proteus (Talk) 18:45, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

It does not matter whether she was born a Princess or not. Princess Diana was a direct descendent of King Charles II and therefore had royal blood. Her family was also aristcratic and noble, which means they were of royal blood at some point in the past. While she was born without the title, she definitly was not a commoner.

Actually, technically, Diana was a commoner, ie not a royal. If you look at the various marriages of previous British monarchs, ie those who married spouses NOT of by-birth royal blood (as opposed to royal descent, which is another thing entirely -- me being a descendant of Charlemagne doesn't make me any LESS a commoner, sigh), the reaction against the non-royal spouse has always been of one of outrage (more or less) of their being of unequal rank, ie a commoner. See for example Henry VIII's marriage to the Lady Anne Boleyn, who, as a daughter of the recently ennobled Thomas Boleyn, 1st Earl of Wiltshire, held the same titular rank as Lady Diana Spencer prior to her marriage (yes, i know she was created a marchioness prior to her marriage, but she was still, for a brief period, an earl's daughter like Diana). Mowens35 20:37, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

I think there is some confusion of what a commoners. The media usage of commoner tends to refer to someone who does not hold a title. However, the legal definition of commoner is who is not a Monarch or a peer. So, therefore technically The Earl Spencer was NOT a commoner as he was a peer. However, he daughter Lady Diana Spencer 'Lady' being a courtesy title as not a peerage is therefore a commoner.

You are correct Proteus, all I was trying to say is she was not entitled to the title of Princess Diana. Prsgoddess187 19:02, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I think we have established that during she a Princess albeit by marriage. However, following her divorce from the Prince of Wales was still technically a Princess. Letter Patent issued in 1996 clearly removed the style of royal highness but as for the rank of Princess it seems to be unclear. From reading various literate its seems that style of royal highness and the title of prince or princess seem to separate entities i.e. someone could be a royal highness but not prince or princess (as was the case of the Duke of Edinburgh who was created a duke with the style of royal highness but was not a prince. Separate Letters patent issued by the Queen later on elevated him to the rank of prince

I don't think she was a princess after her divorce. Since her new style was given on precedent of divorced peeresses, had she remarried it would have lapsed. So she would have become Mrs <husband's surname> and had no "princess" in her title. I also read somewhere that a divorced duchess, for example, is not entitled to hold the style "your Grace", because she no longer holds the rank of a duchess. If Diana gave up her HRH on divorce, surely she ceased to be a princess in the same way? Because surely, she could've beeen known as simply "The Princess of Wales" without the Christian name. So although Diana, Princess of Wales was styled as such she did not actually hold the title, or the rank that went with it. However it's confusing that the HRH was removed specifically - surely this would have been automatic? Perhaps this is because it is always explicitly used, where as "your Grace" isn't normally used that often .I don't think the palace themselves know!

I have an idea that "HRH" can only be given or revoked by the Sovereign and, having been specifically given, it was subsequently specifically revoked. - Kittybrewster 14:41, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Diana was not a princess after her marriage. She could not have been. Someone is a princess by either

• birth (daughter of a sovereign, daughter of a prince of the blood, etc)
• creation.

She was neither. She had the rank of a princess by virtue of her marriage in law to a prince. When they divorced she lost all the marital ranks that flowed from the fact of her marriage. She lost the rank of Princess. She lost her HRH style automatically. (She also lost custody of her children. The custody was granted to the sovereign as is legally required, but in reality the parents had non-custodial equal parenting rights.) The issue of the status of a divorced wife of a prince was explored in the UK when the issue arose over as to King Edward VIII's marriage to Wallis Simpson. Given Mrs Simpson's propensity for dumping husband, they presumed that she would in time divorce Edward too. The legal advice then drawn up (I think it was Walter Monkton who did the informal examining of the legal situation) was that Wallace would lose all status the moment they divorced. They nevertheless presumed that even if no longer entitled to be a HRH she would claim still to be one. So to make doubly sure they denied her that from the start. And to stop her being Princess Edward (which would have been her title, though much as people referred to a mythical "Princess Diana" some no doubt would call her "Princess Wallis") they made sure almost the moment that he had abdicated he would be made a duke, meaning that she would then be called a "duchess" not a "princess". Put bluntly, no Diana was never a princess. She had the rank of a princess for the duration of her marriage to a prince. It started the second they married and ended the second they divorced. FearÉIREANN\^(caint) 16:09, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Err I think you're right on all counts there apart from the claim that she was "never a Princess". She was a princess during her marriage - as exemplified by the title "Princess of Wales" (am I correct in thinking this lapsed to a style rather than a title upon divorce). To the best of my knowledge as you rightly said someone is a princess by birth, creation, AND marriage. She was a princess during her marriage, but this ended on the moment of divorce since it was derived purely from her husband's title. — Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:{{{1}}}|{{{1}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{1}}}#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/{{{1}}}|contribs]])

Maybe I didn't explain the point I meant. (I think we agree, just are at cross purposes.) The point I was making was that there are two types of princesses:

• Those who are princesses in a personal capacity — i.e., by (i) birth, or (ii) by creation.
• Those who are princesses merely by someone else's status — i.e., those whose status is exclusively linked to being married to a prince.

The first type are life-princesses. It is their own personal status. The second are what could be called transient princesses. They have it purely by linkage to someone else. If that status ends (through death and remarriage; through divorce) or is deemed never to have existed (through annulment) they cease to have the status.

It is a matter of English usage whether one regards someone whose status in effect piggybacks on the back of someone else's status, as really a princess at all, or whether they are a full princess for the time of the marriage, whether it is for a lifetime or shorter. One indication might be the titles of various Princesses of Wales. Alexandra of Denmark, when married to the Prince of Wales (Prince Albert Edward, later Edward VII) was described as "Princess Alexandra" but not Princess Alexandra of Wales but Princess Alexandra of Denmark. Similarly Mary of Teck as Princess of Wales was called Princess Mary (or Princess May) but again it was as a princess of Teck, not Princess of Wales. Diana was never Princess Diana and Camilla is not Princess Camilla in contrast. In both cases they were not princesses by birth or creation, merely marriage, and that seems to give one a status as a princess, but not a title as Princess <own name>. (Similarly the HRH is not yours personally, but yours by marriage.)

It is a difficult thing to try and work out. I am sure Lords Chancellor could have great fun with it! My feeling, based on the language usage, is that Diana was never an actual princess, merely a princess-by-marriage. To use a marital example: being a woman's "mother-in-law" doesn't make you her mother. If the woman's marriage to your mother-in-law's son ends in divorce, you lose that status. But it never was a real mother/daughter relationship. In contrast, marital status has no impact whatsoever on a real mother/daughter relationship.

Being a princess is, in broad terms, akin to being a daughter. You have it. It is yours. It doesn't depend on changes in relationships. Being a princess-by-marriage is akind to being a daughter-in-law. It is a technical status that is purely reliant on a legal concept, marriage. In my reading, Diana herself did not have the status of a princess. She had a status of a princess only indirectly by virtue of marriage to a prince. So she was The Princess of Wales, not Princess Diana. But the moment that relationship ended with the divorce, its status, including that of princess, automatically ended. She was back reliant on her own status alone. And her own status did not include that of being a princess in her own right. (Unlike Alexandra of Denmark, or Princess Anne.) FearÉIREANN\^(caint) 22:26, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Remember that she was quite a stickler when it came to proper usage, ie she was known to correct people (ie reporters, etc) who referred to her as "Princess Diana," which she, in fact, explained she was not. She was Diana, Princess of Wales, or, previously, the Princess of Wales. She knew the distinctions; would that more people editing her article would. Mowens35 13:20, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I think you're right. I read somewhere that "Princess of Wales" like "Duchess of York" is simply the wife taking her husband's title. So all in all Diana was a princess by virtue of her husband. Though, how come the HRH had to be stated in letters patent? I think a lot of people are still also under the impression that her divorced title of Diana, Princess of Wales still meant she was a princess ... am I right in thinking it was simply a style? How come she didn't revert to Lady Diana Spencer or Lady Diana Windsor?

When Lady Diana Spencer Married the Prince of Wales she formally became Her Royal Highnes The Princess Charles, Princes of Wales, Duchess of Cornwall, Duchess of Rothesay, Countess of Chester, Countess of Carrick, Baroness Renfrew, Lady of the Isles, Princess and Great Stewardess of Scotland.

When The Prince and Princess of Wales Divorced, the Princess was stripped of her royal titles, that being Her Royal Highness The Princess Charles. The title Prince of Wales is regarded to a certain extent as a peerage, and as such the Princess was styled as the divorcee/widow of a peer: Diana Princess of Wales.

To answer the question above, the Princess of Wales was no longer a Princess upon her divorce to the Prince of Wales.

I would like to add one more point here since we are discussing the titles of Diana, Princess of Wales. Under English law, when the divorcee of a peer remarries she loses the right to style herself with her former spouses title, but this is not the case in under Scottish Law. Therefore, if the Princess of Wales did remarry she would no longer be able to style herself as Diana, Princess of Wales. As the Prince of Wales holds the title Duke of Rothesay in the Peerage of Scotland, Diana would be able to style herself as Diana, Duchess of Rothesay.

She was a Princess but just lost the prefix 'HRH'. That's what I've always heard. And everyone referred to her 'Princess Diana' anyways, so everyone considered her a Princess. If she wasn't being called 'Princess' she'd be called 'Lady'. I've also read that if she remarried then she'd lose the title. But she never remarried so she was always 'Diana, Princess of Wales' No HRH though. Iman S1995 14:50, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Just read the discussion above for the answer! Deb 19:39, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

You are incorrect. Under British law (Cowley v. Cowley) a women may continue the usage of her marital title following her name e.g. Diana, Princess of Wales or Sarah, Duchess of York. I would also point out that even if Diana or Sarah had remarried they would be prefectly within the law and custom to continue to style themselves as Diana, Princess of Wales or Sarah, Duchess of York - even if they were to marry and divorce 10 times.

Additionally, Diana's status was very different to Sarah's. Per the divorce documents Diana remained a member of the royal family.

Queen Brandissima

Edits by 68.250.71.178

I have amended these because I found them to be too slanted. That the failed all her O-levels twice needs citation. Re the ballerina, I don't think it was necessary to point out that the never trained. Perhaps if she had succeeded in remaining single for longer, she would have done. Re the phone calls, the word harassing is harsh and judgmental. Wikipedia should try to avoid such terms in biographies of living or recently deceased persons. The recipient probably found them harassing, but I do not think the intent to harass is verifiable. Viewfinder 02:19, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Her Obiturary in the Guardian <http://www.guardian.co.uk/obituaries/story/0,,768035,00.html> references the failing of the O-levels twice. Trishm 07:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Edits by User:Lions gal 4eva

I reverted this because much of it duplicated information already in or linked to the article, and not all of it meets Wikipedia's verifiablilty standards. But imo some of it is OK and could be incorporated into the article in the appropriate places. Viewfinder 07:52, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Title question

"During her marriage, her full title was Her Royal Highness The Princess Diana, Princess of Wales and Countess of Chester, Duchess of Cornwall, Duchess of Rothesay, Countess of Carrick, Baroness of Renfrew, Lady of the Isles, Princess of Scotland."

Shouldn't that read "During her marriage, her full title was HRH The Princess Charles, etc.," seeing how she was not a princess in her own right? StarNeptune 11:35, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it should be, and I have changed it back. She was never officially titled as Princess Diana. Prsgoddess187 12:15, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Why did her title change in 1975 (at the age of about 14)? --Hugh7 00:06, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Because she was born the daughter of John Spencer, Viscount Althorp, and so was entitled to be styled The Hon as the daughter of a viscount. On 9 June 1975, her grandfather, Earl Spencer died, and her father succeeded to his peerages, so Diana was now the daughter of an Earl, thus entitling her the the style of Lady ^† DBD 01:47, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Did she really attend Norland College?

There is an urban legend that before marriage to Charles, Diana trained as a nanny at the famous Norland College. Firstly, is it true that she ever trained as a nanny? And if so, where did she train and was it really at Norland College? Any references?SureFire 00:20, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Untrue - Kittybrewster 07:30, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

There were two questions. Which are you saying are untrue? Or both? Do you have a reference to back it up?SureFire 10:57, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Wiki policy is that there is no need to prove a negative. You have to provide sources for either of your contentions :) Alci12 21:58, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Driver high on "drugs"

I believe it was prescription drugs - different impression entirely. Someone had replaced the entire page with "LOL" when I had read the page and tried to edit.

David Spooner —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.112.79.158 (talk) 23:00, 14 December 2006 (UTC).

They could tell you anything regarding the drivers blood alcohol and drug intake levels. We would not actually KNOW what state he was in. Judging by the videos he was not falling down drunk. They could tell us that the driver swallowed a purple baby elephant. NitaReads —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.94.98.5 (talk) 21:25, August 25, 2007 (UTC)

Affairs?

I'm sorry, but this article is a whitewash. I understand not wanting to rake up negatively skewed opinions on a tired subject but this article does not reflect Diana's extra-marital affairs, of which there were many:

• Barry Mannakee - body to body guard
• David Waterhouse - man in uniform
• James Gilbey - loyalty gets its reward
• James Hewitt - Di: "I adored him"
• Oliver Hoare - paints a nice picture
• Doctor Hasnar Khan - knew how to care for a woman
• Will Carling - "a close friend"
• Bryan Adams - (Everything I Do) I Do It For Di
• Dodi Fayed - true love at last

Obviously a lot of these are tabloid exagerrations but Diana was not "saintly" - this article does not present any of her personal failings, of which her relationship with Charles - and the way in which she dealt with it, by seeing other men - is a major one.

Most of the 90s up until her death were consumed with news of her extra-marital activities. Some are fluff. Some are fact. Yet this "encyclopaedia" article doesn't mention any. Hewitt at least should get a mention, he is indeed mentioned in the Prince Harry article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by ToneLa (talk • contribs) 13:32, 15 December 2006 (UTC).

Is there any proof? I checked up on some of the men that you said Diana was involved with, and I didn't come up with any info for a few of them. I'll keep looking though... Snowonster 01:18, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

James Hewitt says he was her lover. "Asked whether he regretted anything that had happened, Major Hewitt said he regretted the affair was in the public domain." [1] The BBC newsdesk clearly believes him: "Mr Hewitt was Diana Princess of Wales's secret lover for five years." [2] 82.40.183.118 12:03, 22 February 2007 (UTC). It is also quite possible that Hewitt is in fact the biological father to Prince Harry.

Teddy Forstmann says he was Diana's lover, in an interview with the New York Times. "And Forstmann acknowledged, for the first time, that he had a brief romantic relationship with Diana, Princess of Wales, which turned into a long-term, non-romantic friendship for many years after." [3] 82.40.183.118 12:16, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

When Julia Carling divorced Will Carling in 1996, she leaked to the Daily Mirror that Carling's affair with Diana was the reason. " "I feel so betrayed and let down. Will made me look so stupid," is how the Daily Mirror, quoting "a close friend," reported Julia Carling's feelings. Six months ago, according to the friend, Will abandoned nearly two months of stonewalling concerning his purported involvement with Di to admit to his wife, privately, that he and the 34-year- old princess had had an affair." [4] 82.40.183.118 12:16, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Bryan Adams's ex-girlfriend told the Daily Mail: "I knew Diana had an affair with Bryan. ... Ours was a stormy relationship and Bryan's affair with Diana didn't make it easier" [5] 82.40.183.118 12:16, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Summary: the relationship with James Hewitt seems to be accepted by reliable news sources as factual. Will Carling also looks very likely. The others, it depends what standard of proof you're looking for... if you believe all the tabloid reports then she wouldn't have had time to eat or sleep, but that doesn't mean that some of them aren't true. Perhaps worth looking at Andrew Morton's book "the pursuit of love" 82.40.183.118 12:26, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Diana admitted to an affair with Hewitt, as is stated in the article. None of the others have that standard of evidence behind them. In any case, it depends what you mean by "affair". Most people would interpret that as meaning a sexual relationship, not just a "romance". Deb 12:43, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Agreed on both points (i.e. Hewitt admission, meaning of 'affair'). The question is, what level of evidence is needed?

• I'm sure most people would agree that an admission by Diana, recorded by a trusted news source, is enough evidence. Why would she lie?
• Most people would also probably agree that a tabloid allegation (e.g. 'romantically linked with') without anything to back it up, is not enough evidence. There's a clear reason for the tabloid papers to make this stuff up.

Most of these possible lovers fall somewhere in the middle - more evidence than just allegations, but no admission by D. There's every reason why D. would deny these events even if they did take place, so what's the justification for taking an admission by D. as the only acceptable level of evidence? Should a statement by one of her (possible) lovers that they did sleep with her be discounted because she never admitted it? 82.40.183.118 13:59, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

No, but some of the men appear to me to be obvious publicity-seekers, and others' motives are highly questionable. Deb 17:44, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Agreed, many people involved in this have questionable motives behind their public statements. I'd include Diana in that, certainly at the time of the "War of the Wales's". But the point I'm trying to get at is, what standard of proof would be acceptable? At the moment it seems like D's admission is the only proof that's being accepted - why take her word for it, but not anyone else's? That doesn't seem even-handed. 82.40.183.118 19:45, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

I understand your point, but I don't think there's an answer. I would just say that most people would agree that, if Diana said she had an affair with someone, it carries more weight than if someone else said they had an affair with her, simply because the other person would have had everything to gain by saying it and she had everything to lose by admitting it. If, however, for example, there was a court case where evidence was accepted that someone had seen Diana having sex with someone, that would be acceptable as proof for the purposes of this article. If they just said it in a newspaper, it would not be acceptable as proof. Deb 13:02, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

James Gilbey was also admitted by Diana, according to the Squidgygate article. I haven't been able to find this admission so far though. 82.40.183.118 14:13, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Barry Mannakee: apparently Diana admitted this one on video. I haven't found the actual video yet, best I've got so far is: " On 05.09.2004 a video has been published in which the Princess admitted that she had been the mistress of Barry Mannakee. This relationship is ought to be the first extramarital of Diana. Charles fired him because of that relationship to Diana. Barry Mannakee died in an accident 1987. In the Video Diana says that her lover has been killed." [6] 82.40.183.118 14:34, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Also a BBC[7] article on this - D says she was "deeply in love". 82.40.183.118 14:39, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Whether the Princess actually engaged in one or more extramarital affairs is beyond the certain knowledge of anyone alive today except the parties involved. It would be presumptuous to state as fact that any such affairs are known to have taken place. Sad to say, however, a full treatment of the Princess' life and legacy would have to include at least mention of the rumors that have been widely circulating since the 1990s. Perhaps the article might make brief mention of the news accounts and of the Princess' own veiled admissions as simply what they are: widely circulated rumors and allegations of full-blown extramarital affairs, which the Princess herself hinted might contain an element of truth. Although strongly suggestive, these rumors will probably never be entirely proven or disproven. An example of this might be: "The Princess' name was linked in numerous newspaper accounts with those of X, Y, and Z. The Princess was secretly taped sharing intimate confidences with X, (see "Squidygate") and herself remarked in an interview (date) that she had been "in love" with Y., etc."

Mention what is verifiable, and leave it to the readers to draw their own conclusions. Ivain 11:25, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Borderline Personality Disorder

I edited the part on Sally Bedell Smith's contention that Diana had BPD. She's the only biographer to ever mention it, and it has never been confirmed that Diana suffered from this disorder; Bedell Smith was only hypothesizing. We could add Diana's struggle with bulimia here, which has been confirmed. It's odd that's not mentioned here...What do you think? -

Yeah, it's glaring in its omission. Her eating disorder is well documented yet the BPD thing, totally new to me. I think personally that the whole article needs to be rewritten as it's overly gushing and stuff like her numerous affairs - see above - and bulemia are completely ignored. It reads more like a eulogy than a biography. ToneLa 15:10, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree. I think it was one of Charles's biographers who put forward the BPD theory, but psychiatrists who knew Diana personally said she definitely didn't have it. Bulimia certainly should be included. Deb 15:24, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Bedell Smith is not the only biographer to have suggested that Diana suffered from BPD. Lady Colin Campbell brought up the possibility as well, before Bedell Smith's book was published. Moreover, it is my understanding that another individual who suggested this diagnosis was not a biographer of Charles but rather a royal family friend who described Diana's symptoms to a psychiatrist and asked for his opinion. His necessarily tentative opinion was that it sounded like a classic case of BPD. This story, true or not, has been published in several places. I believe the issue should be addressed, since the statement is not that Diana DID suffer from this illness but rather that it is one view that has been advanced as an explanation for her behaviors. Moreover, Bedell Smith can fairly be regarded as the only serious biographer to date.68.72.83.244 18:34, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

I was thinking more of Penny Junor, author of Charles: Victim or Villain? (1998), who certainly popularized the theory even if she didn't start it ref. It was Neville Marks who said, on TV, "My professional opinion is that it would not have been possible for Diana to assume all her responsibilities if she had a serious personality disorder". Deb 19:21, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

We are not trying to decide here whether Diana did or did not suffer from Borderline Personality Disorder (although it's worth noting that BPD is perhaps the only mental disorder that would have allowed a sufferer to handle precisely the sorts of duties for which Diana is best known with real success). The issue here is simply the fact that more than one of Diana's "detractors," to use the word currently in the article, has suggested that she suffered from BPD. We're not psychiatrists, we are not biographers with access to archival material and close friends. All we can do is recount the various views.68.72.83.244 05:12, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Very true, which is why BPD can only be mentioned as a theory, whereas bulimia can be mentioned as a fact. Deb 12:48, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

There are no mentions of schizophrenia in any of the biographies, even those from the royal camp. That's way off base, so I've edited it yet again.

Well, in fact, author Howard Hodgson HAS claimed that Diana was schizophrenic. In my view, he doesn't have the faintest idea of what schizophrenia means, and Diana, while probably suffering from mental illness, certainly wasn't THAT sick. However, now that the suggestion has been made in print, I suppose it must be mentioned.68.72.83.217 00:25, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't think that necessarily follows. If we included every loony theory that's gone into print, this would be a very long and very uninformative article! Deb 12:58, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

About her death

There is no mention about the paparazzi following the car. Why? Raystorm 20:25, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

The maiden name rule

Does anyone else think there's a case for this article being at "Lady Diana Spencer"? I mean, according to the conventions on past consorts, they should posthumously revert to their maiden name. However, I can't seem to see any clarification as to whether a "consort" to a non-monarch is counted in this... Anyone? – DBD 11:29, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

I'd say that since she was still styled as "Princess Diana" at the time of her death, it would be a good title for the wikipedia article..

To answer Dan's question, yes, lots of people think there's a case for it, but there are many complicating factors. For a start, you're correct in thinking that she doesn't count as a "consort" under the terms of the current convention (see the fairly recent argument over Princess Augusta of Saxe-Gotha for further discussion of that topic). However, strictly speaking, the "revert to maiden name" rule would result in her ending up at "Diana Spencer", not "Lady Diana Spencer". The article's present title is thought preferable (by me, at lest) because (a) either of the two alternatives mentioned above would result in disambiguation being needed (b) it is not her royal title - it is a special and unique title she was given after her divorce, and (c) it is the highest title she ever held. Are you coming round to my point of view? Deb 15:01, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Style, not title. And it wasn't her highest (that would be, hmm, let's see HRH The Princess of Wales...) But yeah, fine... :D – DBD

Of course - I got that bit wrong. Glad we're seeing eye to eye in general, though. Deb 16:03, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Honourable/Honorable

I've changed the prefix in the early life section to "The Honourable" (from "The Honorable") in congruence with the policies laid down in the Manual of Style.

Articles that focus on a topic specific to a particular English-speaking country should generally conform to the usage and spelling of that country.

As this article is most certainly not specific to the United States, and deals with the prefix as it is used in and granted by the United Kingdom, it is an entirely appropriate change, and not "nonsense" as has been proposed. --Ibagli (Talk) 03:03, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Strange Lack?

Strange, Charles' (the groom) name wasn't mentioned in the 'Marriage' column. There are people who might not know who Diana married. Just a suggestion. Snowonster 01:23, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

In the ancestry section should also be Mary Boleyn, since Mary is an ancestor of Princess Diana. Iman S1995 20:57, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Children??

Just curious as to why the side-box refers to Diana's two sons as "Issue Prince William of Wales Prince Harry of Wales". Issue seems a mighty strange way to refer to her children. Is there a reason?? Tom M. 15:02, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

I suppose it ensures that we all know they weren't adopted. Deb 17:25, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Sorry Deb, I doubt that is the reason. Tom M. 19:44, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, it would be important from the point of view of inheritance. Adopted children wouldn't be able to come to the throne, and the same goes for other royal and noble titles. Deb 20:18, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Within the field of genealogy, issue is the technical term for "children known to be or widely-believed to born of the marriage between the subject and this particular spouse during the period of said marriage and up to ten months following the death of the husband or the separation of the spouses." Among royalty and the aristocracy, vast amounts of land, property, cash, and titles transfer by inheritance along bloodlines - the bloodlines of the mother as well as of the father. And royalty and the aristocracy have always married, remarried, had children with multiple spouses, as well as fathered or given birth to children out of wedlock. (The latter have been historically termed "illegitimate" or "bastards", but in many times and places, illegitimate children enjoyed some rights of inheritance, as well, but typically not to the extent of those enjoyed by legitimate children.) So special status attaches to the children born of any particular marriage, for they possess a double inheritance - that of the mother as well as the father.

Family squabbles over large amounts of wealth and power will always get the lawyers and other technical experts involved! And with that, comes specialized terminology. Ivain 12:08, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Page protection

I first saw this page 2 days ago and am amazed how often it is vandalised. 14 times since the 25 February- thats 4 days ago. Does anyone else agree for a need to protect this page? I think in an article that has obvious sensitivities involved since a lot of people still get upset thinking about Diana, this is highly appropriate. If there is support I will have it protected. Bobbacon 18:14, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

I should think Semi-protection would do... I'll head over there now. ^† DBD 18:20, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

cool, thanks for getting it organised. Bobbacon 19:25, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

hi, did page protection get rejected? I have been away since the first, but I know you put up a tag since I looked in the requests page... I can't find any record of it now... It still unprotected and I see there have been at least 5 further acts of vandalism.

I really want to work on this article, but don't want to spend the first half of every edit time fixing vandalism.Bobbacon 14:33, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, my request was denied. Can't find any records though, so you'll just have to believe me. ^† DBD 16:43, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

May I inquire as to why the protection was lifted? Fvasconcellos 01:44, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Hi there (familiar face :) ) . I unprotected it earlier today as one of the editors here, User:Hbdragon88 requested it on WP:RFPP - see here. It's been protected like 3 weeks now & things seemed to be stable. If things get out of hand, post a message to WP:RFPP or to my talk page and I'll re-instate. Thanks! - Alison^☺ 03:53, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Ah, OK. I see you've jumped headfirst into admin territory... :) Thanks for the explanation. Fvasconcellos 18:08, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Marriage and requirement of virginity

Under the marriage section it states that Lord Mountbatten advised Prince Charles to marry a virgin, and also that in order to gain approval of family and advisers Charles should preferably marry a virgin. I really think a statement such as this ought to be properly sourced, and as this shows no sign of happening, it ought to be removed. Otherwise, stated so factually, it seems a bit defamatory. Passingtramp 23:50, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

I haven't read the Jonathan Dimbleby biography of Charles, but I suspect it may be in there. Deb 12:48, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

I recently read an excellent biography about Lady Diana and if memory serves me right, there was a section in the book that discussed about why Diana was picked. I will try to retrieve the book from the library. RosePlantagenet 14:14, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

I can't find a source for it, but I vividly remember Lady Di making a pre-nuptial visit to the royal gynecologist to make sure that her hymen was intact. It was followed by what must have been an humiliating press conference. The press kept using the phrase "unspoiled English rose". Ick. Ninquerinquar 18:31, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

No sources means removal in this case, SqueakBox 19:02, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Removed. Passingtramp 10:59, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

This page is disaster

Relate to above comment... there have been so many anonymous edits to this article over the last week and maybe longer, and there are clearly hoaxes with "Arabella FitzYourMum" and perhaps with more, I don't even know where to start. I am not interested in Lady Di, nor do I know enough about her, to clean this up. I've put a disputed tag at the top it's that bad. I hope someone will help edit and correct this. -- Fuzheado | Talk 21:07, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I completely agree. I stumbled across this article by accident and have no real interest in the actual content, but was saddened that a page about someone that many people look up to is constantly vandalised. I want to overhaul and completely clean this page more out of respect than actual interest. The page protection seems to have been denied but I am going to wait until it happens before I do anything.

As it is the 10 year anniversary of her death in 6 months time I think this article should have some sort of priority, but until the endless vandalism is curbed I doubt many serious wikipedians will take it on. Bobbacon 21:19, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Deb, for reverting it to something sane. By the way, have semi-protected it now. If you look back at the history, there is regular anon vandalism, which should be squelched. I've also added some cite needed tags. -- Fuzheado | Talk 21:29, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Quick note of thank you for the sprot to those who requested it/were involved. This article is a constant target of IP vandalism, and it's high time someone protected it. Fvasconcellos 00:20, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Photograph of Diana's Coffin

The photograph which supposedly shows Diana's coffin being carried through the streets looks to me like it has been heavily (and badly) edited. For instance, it can clearly be seen here that the coffin was pulled on a carriage by horses - where is the carriage and where are the horses on the photograph on the article??! Gleysh 18:02, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

I completely agree... a very bad Photoshop edit has been done on this picture. Recommend it be removed until an un-doctored photo can be found substituted. Tom M. 23:01, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Please see the talk page of the photo for my comments. It was my photo and I did the bad editing !. PaddyBriggs 07:37, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

The nickname

Hi. Does anyone know who coined the term "the people's princess"? I've also seen it without the apostrophe, though I don't understand that. Thanks. 151.202.74.135 19:54, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Tony Blair certainly used it in his speech (written by Alastair Campbell). The version without an apostrophe is just illiterate. Deb 21:50, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Re-instatement of Title

Could anyone let me know if it is possible for Prince Charles or Prince William, if and when either succeeds to the throne, to re-instate the HRH title to Diana, Princess of Wales.--Andyuk7 19:02, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

In theory, yes, but a posthumous award of style by letters is completely unprecedented, afaik. ^† DBD 22:04, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

The talk page is for discussion of the article itself, not for general questions about the subject. Try somewhere such as the alt.talk.royalty newsgroup. Charles 19:55, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

This is not irrelevant, as William has already stated he will do this upon accession to the throne. It would indeed be good to have some background on this, and to add it to the article (albeit briefly - a sentence or two should take care of it) if it can be cited. ProhibitOnions ^(T) 18:58, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Is there a source for that? I don't see any reason why he could, why he would, or why he should, and I've heard nothing but speculation about it.--Ibagli (Talk) 17:58, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

This source [8] claims according to BBC. But the only mention I can find of this claim on BBC is in the h2g2 which is obviously not a reliable source. Potential, whoever wrote the People article didn't quite understand what h2g2 is Nil Einne 09:22, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

BTW I forgot to mention. It is irrelevant. If and when someone does it then we can include it in the article. Perhaps if there are multiple reliable sources which say it is planned then we can also include in in the article. However speculating in this talk page on whether it's possible or likely is irrelevant and OT. Nil Einne 18:17, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

I would add a reminder that Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. As Nil mentioned, if and when it happens, it would be appropriate to mention it, but at this point, it is all speculation, rumor, and a future act that is not predictable by anyone, even Prince William. ^Ariel♥Gold 18:27, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Conspiracy theorists had claimed...

Since when is it relevant what conspiracy theorists claim? If there is a good reference that it's actually true (and not just claimed to be true), such claims should be removed. Conspiracy theorists have traditionally claimed all kinds of stuff, mostly without any merit. It is best to ignore such claims. Shinobu 21:22, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Claims that are significant and have been reported on a number of sources absolutely deserve to be in here. See, for instnace, the Kennedy assassination theories article. Many conspiracy theories for Diana are listed in Death of Diana, Princess of Wales. hbdragon88 00:35, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Place of birth edited

I have edited the place of birth for Diana. The reason for this is as follows. I am a resident of a village, which is right next to Sandringham, and through knowledge of my own, I know that 'Park House' is not on the Sandringham Estate, and in fact is in an estate of its own. However, 'Park House' is still in the Village of Sandringham, which is probably why there is some confusion.

Paul Norfolk Dumpling 20:14, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Too Positive

Sounds like a promo piece for her. Xavier cougat 17:32, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

What would you change? Passingtramp 14:19, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Dress

Diana was buried on 6 September 1997. The Prince of Wales, her sons, her mother, siblings, a close friend, and a clergyman were present. She wore a black long sleeved Catherine Walker dress. She had chosen that particular dress a few weeks before.

I'm a bit confused by this. Does it mean she's chosen the dress for her funeral (obviously she wasn't expecting to need it so soon) or simply that it was a dress she'd purchased a few weeks before to wear for any sombre occasion which came up? Nil Einne 09:14, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

The latter, I am certain. She would not have occasionally picked out a dress for her funeral at her prime. WinterT 03:15, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

I don't see any reason to assume she wouldn't have picked out a dress. Definitely it would be less common for younger people but I'm sure it happens. No one knows what tomorrow is going to bring and if you're a planner... (not that I'm saying she was much of a planner) Planning your funeral to some extent is no real different from writing your will. Both help to reduce the hassle after you die and also ensure your wishes will be met. It obviously isn't something you do every week but once you have a will and have a funeral plan, they're things you may also update every so often as needs and wants arise. Particularly if your as paranoid about your death as Diana apparently was. However on reconsideration I doubt it would be the case since if she had chosen a dress for her funeral a few weeks before her death the conspiracy theorists would have had a field day and I've never heard of it before Nil Einne 18:15, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

DIANA'S DAYS

DIANA frances spencer _{Subscript text}

Separation/divorce section comment

Overall, I think it is a good article! It is certainly a daunting one. Some sections are better than others. I think perhaps in the separation/divorce part, you might consider summarizing the affairs bit even more. I think it's unnecessary to even mention names of alleged partners which have no foundation other than media rumor. Although you rightly acknowledge as much, even just mentioning some of those names like JFK Jr is not necessary at all, in my opinion, as it says absolutely nothing of who Diana was. But as for the writing and wording, this section is good, because things are well-stated, concise, and factual. All the missing citations need addressing, but besides that, it's a good job. --Ashley Rovira 00:49, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Roberto Devorik

On Fox News' Geraldo Rivera's "Death of Diana: Unanswered Questions", yesterday & today, I heard Roberto Devorik quote her as having said, regarding Muslim friends, Arab friends: "...I have too much white meat in my life,..."

Thank You, [[ hopiakuta | [[ [[ %c2%a1 ]] [[ %c2%bf ]] [[ %7e%7e ]] ~~ -]] 20:49, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

While that may be mildly interesting to some, it is hearsay, and not supported by reliable sources. I would personally not give Rivera much credibility, knowing his tendency to sensationalize with regards to getting media attention. Without proper sources, such a statement should not be included in the article. ^Ariel♥Gold 18:32, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Necessary pic?

"A message of condolence at Trafalgar Square following her death, containing a typo (should be "in memoriam")" Do we really need a pic with a typo in Diana's bio? it takes part of the attention away from the article.. I would prefer a pic related to her legacy.. not a billboard with a typo.. any thoughts on this?--F3rn4nd0 ^{(Roger - Out)} 12:03, 31 August 2007 (UTC)