Ricki-Lee discography

Good article nomination on hold

This image lacks a proper license.

There are only 12 inline references. See if you can place additional inline references where appropriate. Consider formatting these references using {{cite}}. Perfect reference formatting is not strictly necessary for GA.

A few unreferenced statements, such as "Manx meat has a good reputation," appear to be original research. "As you would expect for an island, seafood has traditionally accounted for a large proportion of the local diet" is unencyclopedic because it uses "you." The article should be edited from top to bottom to comply with the Good Article Criteria.

Excessive subheadings disrupt the flow. The article would be easier to read because if it had better paragraph structure. Many sections have been broken out into separate articles. For instance, Communications on the Isle of Man, is just a collection of lists. It would be better to pare some of these little articles down to the essentials, turn them into prose, and merge them back into the main article. Manx language is better quality and should remain a separate article. We want to create a narrative article that flows logically from paragraph to paragraph and section to section.

I would enjoy a photograph of the capital city, and some of the activities discussed in the article. These additional photos are not strictly necessary, but they would improve the visual interest of the article and help the reader understand what Man looks like.

If the above action items are fixed, the article would be much closer to passing. Jehochman ^Hablar 03:32, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Failed

It's been past the 7-day maximum hold period, and some concerns are still outstanding, ex: the image still lacks proper licensing, and there are still only 12 references. Carson 04:43, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

IOM Accent

Could someone confirm which British/local accent the IOM accent derives from? or better still upload a file. Gazh 14:42, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Well, to me it sounds a lot like a Liverpudlian accent. But I'm just a jumped-up southerner! Biofoundationsoflanguage 17:40, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

I would not say that that it is derived from any particular British accent, certainly not liverpudlian as far as I can tell. It is quite distinctive, though not easy to imitate. I suspect that the Manx Gaelic language intonation and speech patterns have had influence on a general northern English accent. Dabbler 18:00, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Of course Liverpool's distinctive accent comes from Irish immigrants landing there. Biofoundationsoflanguage 07:19, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Identifying the origins of the accent is not simple but there are certainly hints of Irish and Liverpudlian dialects in the local accent. Young people, in particular, have a very distinct Liverpudlian twang and much specific vocabulary is similar to that used in Liverpool. 213.230.130.56 14:26, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

The IOM has two distinct local accents - particularly around Douglas and in the younger population, the most prevalent is a mildy Liverpudlian-sounding west-British accent, though considerably softer and less guttural than the actual Liverpudlian dialect. The "genuine" Manx accent is generally heard among the older population in rural areas, and sounds rather different, using lengthened vowel sounds with slight hints of Irish about it. User:Buggane 22:26, 15 January 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.254.87.68 (talk)

The first 30 seconds of the Freedom to Flourish video is John Kennaugh. He speaks with a Manx accent. Video availabile on YouTube. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.137.0.151 (talk) 13:23, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

If it helps, I've often been mistaken for Irish or American (or, in some cases, Canadian) in England. --Muna (talk) 05:41, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Culture

The page has been edited recently with some POV-based opinions on the lack of Norse/Celtic influence, related to an uncited DNA-based study that supposedly demonstrates the lack of "Celtic" origins in the population. To my knowledge, no large-scale DNA study has ever been done on the Isle of Man - the most recent one of significance was a voluntary campaign for the BBC's "Blood of the Vikings" series, which revealed a significant proportion of Scandinavian DNA markers in the population of the north of the Island. This opinion also overlooks the fact that the "Celtic" influence was a cultural one, not necessarily a movement of populations - in the same way that Anglo-Saxon culture is predominant in England despite the fact that DNA studies have revealed that much of the English population originates from pre-Anglo-Saxon origins (For an example, see the entry on Cheddar Man and the continuity of his mitochondrial DNA into present-day populations 9000 years later). It would be naive to assume that the present-day population of the Isle of Man would be directly descended from the tall, blonde "Celts" of Austria, but nonetheless, the Manx still speak a "Celtic" language, and it's this cultural influence that should be cited, rather than the genetic origins of its population. It's undeniable that Norse (see Tynwald) and "Celtic" (see the Manx language) culture are still present. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.254.87.68 (talk) 22:49, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Actually it is far from proven how much most of the people of Britain are 'Celtic' or 'Norse' or 'Anglo-Saxon' to give names to things that should not be given names (considering genetics does not belong to any culture). Everyone in Europe seem to be mixed in my opinion...but that is besides the point. You are correct in that being not 100% purely 'Celtic' genetically (not that you can be) does not mean that the Manx are not a Celtic culture just as the English and Austrians are not 100% genetically 'Germanic' or the Poles and Ukrainians are not 100% genetically 'Slavic' for the simple reason that genetics does not equal culture despite what some early 20th century geneticists and their modern followers may claim. Also language does not always equal culture thus the Irish and Shetlanders may speak English but they are culturally Celtic and Norse respectively. Sigurd Dragon Slayer (talk) 18:41, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Lord of Mann in intro paragraph

It's an introductory paragraph, not the place for detailed speculation on the development of the headship of state since 1765... 136.8.152.13 17:20, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Government type.

As well as being a Crown Dependency, is it not also a Parliamentary Democracy (Constitutional Monarchy) because it has a parliament and the Queen as Head of State? Biofoundationsoflanguage 11:06, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

I think one would be hard pressed not to describe Mann as a parliamentary democracy. Quote from the agreement signed 1 May 2007 by the Chief Minister and the UK Lord Chancellor: "The UK has no democratic accountability in and for the Isle of Man which is governed by its own democratically elected assembly."[1] Man vyi 15:42, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

We add it then? Biofoundationsoflanguage 16:33, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Well, I think it would be helpful to the uninitiated who might otherwise assume that Mann is some sort of benighted colony ;-) Man vyi 19:41, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Righto. I'll see what I can do. The Government bit on infoboxes is always a bit dodgy. Biofoundationsoflanguage 08:08, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

I've left the Crown Dependency bit in, but it might be better further down? Biofoundationsoflanguage 08:36, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals#Celts

This culture, which has influenced literature, farming, navigation and so much of European life, for 4,000 years, and covers places as diverse as Portugal and Asia Minor, would be worthy of its own project. Modern areas still Celtic include Brittany, Cornwall, Ireland, the Isle of Man, Scotland and Wales. Please weigh in at the proposal Chris 04:32, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Proposed project

There is now a proposed project to deal with the crown dependencies of Guernsey, Isle of Man, and Jersey. Anyone interested in taking part should indicate their interest at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals#Crown dependencies. Thank you. John Carter 19:01, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Monapia?

The article Anyphaenid sac spider also links here (e.g. to Monapia). Don't know exactly why, but it seems to be the name of a subfamily of those spiders. Just noticed this while looking for something else, maybe someone can clarfiy this. --213.168.118.91 19:04, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Monapia is a (full) Latin name for the Isle of Man. Mauls (talk) 00:43, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

King of Man

Will there be any mention of a recent claim of the throne of the Isle of Man (for which more of, see here: www.royaltyofman.com and a article on IOM Today? Xantharius (talk) 23:46, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Until it has some more credibility than an unsubstantiated claim on a website, I don't think it should have any more importance than my claim to be President of Azerbaijan. Dabbler (talk) 00:38, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

I added this item based on the fact that the Queen of England has now recognized David Howe as the rightful heir to the Man monarchy. There is no longer a dispute as to whether or not he holds the title of King. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.26.45.129 (talk) 18:51, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Buckingham Palace have explicitly stated that they don't recognise any claims, as has the IOM Government.[2] In any event, the sections in this article are summaries, and statements on this claim haven't been included in any of King of Mann, Lord of Mann, or History of the Isle of Man. Mauls (talk) 19:41, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

The middle of these is no longer true: King of Mann now has a reference to this. Xantharius (talk) 18:56, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Coinage / Numismatics / Scriphophily (sp?)

While these subjects are of no interest to me, I know that they do interest some people. My wife just got presented with an IoM pound note in her change while shopping, and after a couple of minutes thought I cottoned on to the "Ellan Vannin" as indicating the Isle of Man. IoM coins are not terribly uncommon in the rest of the UK, but it's a number of years since I last saw one. I don't know enough about the money-collecting hobbies, but quite likely there are Wikipedians who do know about them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by A Karley (talk • contribs) 22:18, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Why not add "Man Island" in the first sentence as one of its names?

Why not add "Man Island" in the first sentence as one of its names? Or is that a wrong name? At least Man Island redirects here.90.190.225.121 (talk) 12:40, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

The Isle of Man or Mann is never known as Man Island, presumably the redirect is for the benefit of people who do not know that. Dabbler (talk) 13:14, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Another proposed guideline for "the British Isles"

I have numerous concerns about the current proposal for a guideline for the use of the term British Isles and have written another proposal. My main concerns were that the proposal as it is written here did not walk the line of WP:NPOV, did not have an adequate grounding in current consensus and practice, and did not offer any concrete guidelines per se that an editor could follow or easily understand (in the broadest sense of the term).

My proposed guidelines are here. --sony-youth^pléigh 20:36, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Pokerstars?

Is it worth mentioning that Pokerstars is based in the Isle of Man? I believe several other poker sites are based there as well. This seems important, considering Pokerstars is valued at around $3 billion, which is more than the GDP of the entire island. Deepfryer99 (talk) 20:40, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Isle of Sam

Apparently the island has been renamed after the I'd Do Anything contestant Sam - [3] [4]. Does anybody think this is worth mentioning? supercriminal (talk) 18:40, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

100% not worth mentioning at all! Mjroots (talk) 18:42, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, I think the renaming of the island is pretty important to mention. However, it remains to be seen whether this change will continue on if she ends up not winning the show. Definitley at least deserves a note, if not renaming the article to match even if it turns out to only be for a short period. Independentwoman (talk) 19:06, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Until somebody higher than the Minister of Tourism is involved with the change of name, e.g. approval signed by HM The Queen, then it is a stunt and not noteworthy. I have reverted the second attempt to put this up as fact. Ian Cairns (talk) 18:10, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Table of Contents

Check out the List of basic Isle of Man topics. It serves as a rudimentary table of contents to the subject "Isle of Man". It's not done yet. Maybe you can help?

The Transhumanist    11:30, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

This would be far better as a portal. I'm not sure at all that this kind of pure index is appropriate for the article namespace. That said, it's an impressive collection of articles. But I think it should be moved off articlespace. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 11:41, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Re:Isle of Sam

They don't want us to add it, I've tried quite a few times —Preceding unsigned comment added by MagicMan1995 (talk • contribs) 16:54, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Do you honestly think that anyone will remember this in six months time? There are millions of facts about the Isle of Man that are not included in this article because they are too insignificant to mention. This is another. Dabbler (talk) 17:53, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

I know, I was justreplying to a user's post from above me about the Isle of Sam. =] And people won't remeber this in 6 months time, unless Wikipedia helps people remember it! --MagicMan1995 (talk) 07:37, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Why should this fact be remembered by anyone other than her family and friends when you can't tell me when women got the vote in the Isle of Man and the Isle of Man article in Wikipedia won't tell you that either. Hint it was years before they did in the UK. Which fact is more important? Dabbler (talk) 10:57, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

I really don't want to start a war with you, so let us comprimise, put both in =] Maybe the reason I can't tell you is becuase it's not in Wikipedia, my point! (it was in1881, the first in the world)--MagicMan1995 (talk) 18:55, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

The change of name was a publicity stunt, neither important or interesting in relation to the Isle of Man in general.-Localzuk^(talk) 19:09, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Surely it's easy to distinguish between the island actually being renamed and a publicity stunt using the high media profile of a TV show to gain some PR mileage in order to boot tourism. It's unimportant, not noteworthy and ephemeral. DrFrench (talk) 19:51, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Main island of the archieplago

What is the area of the main island if the total archipelago has an area of 221 square miles? Thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.135.97.184 (talk) 10:16, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Question re Citizenship

I have a question re IoM passports/citizenship. The IoM article currently gives this much of the story:

Citizenship is covered by UK law, and Manx people are classed as British citizens, although those without a grandparent born in the UK (or who have not lived continuously for a period of five or more years in the UK) do not have the same rights as other British citizens with regard to employment and establishment in the European Union. Citizenship is covered by UK law, and Manx people are classed as British citizens, although those without a grandparent born in the UK (or who have not lived continuously for a period of five or more years in the UK) do not have the same rights as other British citizens with regard to employment and establishment in the European Union.

I have read this separately on a "Blog" website:

...resdients of the Isle of Man receive full UK passports which inlcude an extra entry detailing their Manx nationality. Whereas residents of the 2 Channel Islands states - The Bailiwick of Guernsey and The Bailiwick of Jersey receive British Islands passports, which have the following on the front cover: "British Islands, Bailiwick of Jersey" or "British Islands, Bailiwick of Guernsey" So slightly different in that they do not have full UK citizenship like a Manx national does.BlogLink

Does any one know (A) what is the actual wording on the front cover of an IoM passport; (B) whether the description of the position on the "Blog" is correct; (C) if it is, why do IoM passports not have "British Islands" on the front cover...If there is a difference, is there also a difference in the status of the IoM vis a vis the other two Crown Dependencies?

Regards. Redking7 (talk) 22:38, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

UPDATE: I got this response elsewhere

The following points may clarify:

• Passports issued by the Isle of Man Passport Office say "British Islands - Isle of Man"
• Isle of Man passports can be issued to any British citizen in the Isle of Man (whether or not that person has "Manx status" under the local employment laws). They can also be issued to Manx-connected British citizens residing in the mainland U.K. or any of the other Crown Dependencies.
• Persons in the Isle of Man are full British citizens - as are those from the Channel Islands. The nationality status on their passports is "British Citizen."
• There is no such thing as "Manx nationality". There is such a thing as "Manx status" under IOM employment control legislation but I do not believe this is endorsed on passports. JAJ (talk) 23:30, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Regards. Redking7 (talk) 21:08, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Windmills

I think that placing a section on windmills right at the top of the article gives the windmills too much prominence. Under the list of basic IOM topics it would probably fall under architecture -historic, I would think and thus may come back in when the article is expanded further. For now perhaps it should be left as a see also. --Vannin (talk) 22:41, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Motto?

It would be nice to have a bit more info on the motto, such as its history. Was it chosen to compliment the Manx triskelion?

I have removed those two sentences: Interpretations of the motto often stress stability and robustness in the Manx character. Many schools on the island have adapted the motto to promote perseverance and hard work.

... as I find that a bit florid and thin on information. And maybe the schools have simply adopted the island's motto because it is the island's motto? Also "It stands wherever you throw it" seems more like a description for a toy ("Glows in the dark! Stands wherever you throw it! Cool battle sounds!") rather than an exhortation for "preseverance and hard work". Maikel (talk) 11:17, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

The story I was raised with, but have no written source for, is it is what Mannanin said to St. Patrick as he went down Snaefell after their big battle (and it was whereever you throw me I will stand), meaning that the wizard would never be totally defeated and thus there would always be some magic on the island even though christianity technically won out.--Vannin (talk) 16:30, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Name

Can we have some explanation as to the two names given in the first line (Man and - presumably much rarer? Mann)? And why is one Gaelic name considered to correspond to one English spelling, and another to the other?--Kotniski (talk) 19:30, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

One is not really more rare than the other, just as people will say "the United States of America" or more simply "America", so the "Isle of Man" is also known as "Mann", the double "n" in Mann comes from the Manx language influence. In Manx "Ellan" (means Isle or Island) "Vannin" (means "of Man" i.e. the genitive case) if just Mann is required then Mannin the nominative case is used. Dabbler (talk) 02:35, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Oh, I see now, thanks:) I had read it as meaning "Isle of Man" or "Isle of Mann". I'll try to format it slightly more clearly, and maybe add a footnote about the Manx names.--Kotniski (talk) 12:07, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

The English language has many examples of alternate spellings that are acceptable, both for words and for names. Both 'Man' and 'Mann' are correct, but 'Isle of Man' has become the most used form of the long name, and 'Mann' the most used short name. The latter is no doubt partially because 'Man' could be confused with the general term for a human male! Mauls (talk) 22:21, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Postal Services

I would like to see some info on this.91.105.137.23 (talk) 17:22, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

A link to Isle of Man Post has been added under "Communications".--Drumhollistan (talk) 00:54, 10 October 2008 (UTC)