User talk:Ashley kennedy3 and Karnei Shomron: Difference between pages

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{{Infobox Israel municipality
'''Welcome!'''
|name=Karnei Shomron
|image=
|imgsize=
|caption=
|hebname=קרני שומרון
|arname=
|meaning=
|founded=1977
|type=lc
|typefrom=
|stdHeb=
|altOffSp=Qarne Shomron
|altUnoSp=
|district=js
|population=6,300
|popyear=2006
|area_dunam=7500


|mayor=
Hello, {{BASEPAGENAME}}, and [[Wikipedia:Welcome, newcomers|welcome]] to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:
}}
*[[Wikipedia:Five pillars|The five pillars of Wikipedia]]
'''Karnei Shomron''', or '''Qarne Shomron''', ([[Hebrew Language|Hebrew]]: קרני שומרון), meaning literally "the Horns of [[Samaria]]" is an [[Israeli]] [[Local council (Israel)|local council]] that was first established in 1977. in the western [[Samaria]] region ([[West Bank]]), east of [[Kfar Saba]]. It is {{convert|48|km|mi}} north-east of Tel Aviv and {{convert|85|km|mi}} north of Jerusalem. According to the [[Israel Central Bureau of Statistics]] (CBS) end of 2006 estimate, the population of Karnei Shomron is 6,300.
*[[Wikipedia:How to edit a page|How to edit a page]]
*[[Help:Contents|Help pages]]
*[[Wikipedia:Tutorial|Tutorial]]
*[[Wikipedia:Article development|How to write a great article]]
*[[Wikipedia:Manual of Style|Manual of Style]]
I hope you enjoy editing here and being a [[Wikipedia:Wikipedians|Wikipedian]]! Please [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|sign your name]] on talk pages using four tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out [[Wikipedia:Questions]], ask me on my talk page, or place <code><nowiki>{{helpme}}</nowiki></code> on your talk page and ask your question there. Again, welcome!&nbsp; <b><font face="century gothic">[[User:Kamope|<font color="8100b4">K</font>]][[User:Kamope/ASTRO|<font color="0000FF">a</font>]][[User:Kamope|<font color="8100b4">mope</font>]] · [[User_talk:Kamope|<font color="689c36">talk</font>]] · [[Special:Contributions/Kamope|<font color="8100b4">contributions</font>]]</font></b> 14:15, 20 January 2007 (UTC)


Karnei Shomron is now actually made up of a group of several previously independent [[Israeli settlement]]s that were united in 1991:
*'''Karnei Shomron''' - established in 1977 and now includes about 450 families,
* '''Ginot Shomron''' - established in 1984 and now includes about 850 families,
* '''Neve Menachem''' - established in 1991 and now includes about 220 families,
as well as newer neighbourhoods called Alonei Shilo (1999, 25 families and a large girls [[midrasha]]), Mitzpe Tzvaim, and Ramat Gil'ad.


The chief rabbi of Karnei Shomron is Rabbi Yitzhak Halevi. Herzl Ben-Ari is the head of the Karnei Shomron Local Council. Prominent Likud member and [[Manhigut Yehudit]] Chairman [[Moshe Feiglin]] lives in Karnei Shomron.


==Terror attacks==
On [[February 16]], [[2002]], 3 teenagers were murdered and over 30 civilians were injured in suicide bombing at a pizzeria in the center of town.<ref>[http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2002/terror.victims/page1.html CNN Victims of Terror for 2002 Page]</ref>


==References==
{{reflist}}


==External links==
{{Wikipedia:WikiProject Palestine/Open tasks}}
*[http://www.karneishomron.co.il/ Karnei Shomron website] {{he icon}}


{{coord missing|Israel}}


[[Category:West Bank]]
{{Judea and Samaria}}


[[Category:Mixed Israeli settlements]]
==ANI==
[[Category:Local councils in Israel]]
[[Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Gilabrand__POV_vandalism|ANI]][[User:Ashley kennedy3|Ashley kennedy3]] ([[User talk:Ashley kennedy3#top|talk]]) 10:30, 9 July 2008 (UTC)


{{Israel-geo-stub}}


[[he:קרני שומרון]]

==[[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Palestine-Israel articles]] ==
As a result of the above-named Arbitration case, the [[WP:AC|Arbitration committee]] has acknowledged long-term and persistent problems in the editing of articles related to Israel, Palestine, and related conflicts. As a result, the Committee has enacted broad [[Wikipedia:General sanctions|editing restrictions]], described [[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Palestine-Israel articles#Discretionary sanctions|here]] and below.

*Any uninvolved administrator may, on his or her own discretion, impose sanctions on any editor working in the area of conflict if, despite being warned, that editor repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behavior, or any normal editorial process.
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*Prior to any sanctions being imposed, the editor in question shall be given a warning with a link to this decision; and, where appropriate, should be counseled on specific steps that he or she can take to improve his or her editing in accordance with relevant policies and guidelines.
*Discretionary sanctions imposed under the provisions of this decision may be appealed to the imposing administrator, the appropriate administrators' noticeboard (currently [[WP:AE]]), or the Committee.

These editing restrictions may be applied to any editor for cause, provided the editor has been previously informed of the case. This message is to so inform you. This message does not necessarily mean that your current editing has been deemed a problem; this is a template message crafted to make it easier to notify any user who has edited the topic of the existence of these sanctions.

Generally, the next step, if an administrator feels your conduct on pages in this topic area is disruptive, would be a warning, to be followed by the imposition of sanctions (although in cases of serious disruption, the warning may be omitted). Hopefully no such action will be necessary.

This notice is only effective if given by an administrator and logged [[Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Palestine-Israel_articles#Log_of_notifications|here]].

[[User:PhilKnight|PhilKnight]] ([[User talk:PhilKnight|talk]]) 14:55, 17 June 2008 (UTC)











== Editing concerns ==

I have a few concerns relating to your edits of the [[Al-Tantura]] article. There is useful guideline called [[WP:WTA|words to avoid]], which I recommend you have a look at. There are exceptions to many of the words listed, but I find it a useful guide. For example, it lists 'however' as a word that may advance a point of view. It also lists 'extremist' as a word that should generally be avoided. In this context, if you look a this [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Al-Tantura&diff=221203830&oldid=221202329 edit] I hope you will see why I think Nishidani has moved the text closer to the [[WP:NPOV|neutral point of view]]. Also, I strongly recommend that you have another look at the [[WP:BLP|biographies of living persons]] policy, in particular, the requirement for including material about a living person is that it must be strictly in accordance with the [[WP:V|verifiability]] and [[WP:NPOV|neutral point of view]] policies. Regarding the 'peanut' quote, to argue for its inclusion, you would have to make a case that it was not only verifiable, but also neutral and relevant. Thanks. [[User:PhilKnight|PhilKnight]] ([[User talk:PhilKnight|talk]]) 17:23, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

== Don't face off on POVs ==

Ashley, you're a dedicated editor and keen researcher. Don't spoil the good work by getting dragged into POV battles in the text, as opposed to arguing your POV with whoever's on the relevant talk page. You say that Gilabrand has a POV (quite true) and that you are countering it with your own (quite true). I am in thorough disagreement with Morris's POV, but that doesn't stop me from learning deeply from his books. He is an historian of exceptional resource, even if one dislikes his personal values. That he thinks 800 dead 'peanuts' (having in mind the Holocaust) tells against him personally: it can be put on his page if well sourced, but not on the Tantura page. It does not tell against his scholarly standing. After all he discovered in archives evidence for at least 24 massacres of Palestinians that had been ignored by Zionist narratives. He didn't hide the facts: he published them. The problems you are sensitive too are all over I/P articles, but haste, frustration and, indeed, outrage will not improve them. Commitment to precise study and measured analysis of sources do far more good in the long run. Take a brief break, reflect a little on the long-term, and come back with a little more equanimity. With friendly regard [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 17:52, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
:I share most of Nishidani's mind but I want to stop with this defamation about Morris.
:* it was not in JPost. It was in Haaretz (Shavit's interview).
:* He didn't say 800 deaths in pinuts. He said 800 deaths is pinuts in comparison with other atrocities such as Czebrenica (and not the Holocaust !).
:* In his last book, ''1948'', pp.404-406 he explains in details why he claims so. After introducint all the facts, his conclusion is :
::''In general, from May 1948 onward, both Israel and the Arab states abided by the Geneva convention, took prisoners, and treated them reasonably well. Given that the first half of the warr involved hostilities between militias based in a large number of interspersed civilian communities, the conquest of some two hundred villages and urban centers, and the later conquest of two hundred additional villages, 1948 is actually noteworthy for the relatively small number of civilian casualties both in the battles themselves and in the atrocities that accompanied them or followed (compare this, for example, to the casualty rates and atrocities in the Yugoslav wars of the 1990s or the Sudanese civil wars of the past fifty years).''
:[[User:Ceedjee|Ceedjee]] ([[User talk:Ceedjee|talk]]) 18:12, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
:nb: where is Pappe defamed in the articles. If so, it must be removed.



==Beit Guvrin==
Are you sure of this? You must present a source and statement to counter the Beit Guvrin claim, because a reader of the UNESCO source cannot be sure if they're using "Beit Guvrin" the same way we are using "Bayt Jibrin". If you could provide a counter, then we will have something to work with. --[[User:Al Ameer son|Al Ameer son]] ([[User talk:Al Ameer son|talk]]) 19:17, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

== Your new articles ==

Hello! I was doing New Page Patrol and I was giving the okay to your Palestine articles. I just wanted to drop by to say "Thanks!" for adding this important information to Wikipedia. I am glad to see an intelligent presentation of Palestine online. Be well. [[User:Ecoleetage|Ecoleetage]] ([[User talk:Ecoleetage|talk]]) 22:49, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

== Re:Lost towns ==

Firstly, the split is at mund aka [[Village Council (Palestinian Authority)]]. Secondly, the PNA has a rather confusing rating system for cities and other municipalities. According to the source, Municipalities B ''could'' have populations way over 8,000 since in the chart it's written as 8000+ not 8,000-10,000. Cities ''have to'' have populations over 10,000 ''and'' must be the center of a governorate. For instance, [[Salfit]] is a center but it's population has not reached 10,000, therefore it should not be classified as a city. Since the source says there's only 14 cities in the territories, I would be nervous adding [[Beit Furik]], [[Attil]] and even [[Qabatiya]], [[al-Yamun]], [[Dura, Hebron|Dura]] which have populations of over 15,000 even 20,000. Nonetheless, I added all of those latter articles to the cities category based on their high populations without considering how the PNA classified them. You could go ahead and add Beit Furik now, and we should bring this up at the project talk page. --[[User:Al Ameer son|Al Ameer son]] ([[User talk:Al Ameer son|talk]]) 02:57, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
:I'm not sure. I know ''sha'ir'' means hair and ''nar'' means fire. You should go ask [[User:Fjmustak|Fjmustak]]. He is very fluent in Arabic. Good luck! --[[User:Al Ameer son|Al Ameer son]] ([[User talk:Al Ameer son|talk]]) 18:15, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

== Tantura ==

Hi, I am not sure you saw this (written 1 week ago) : [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Al-Tantura#Concultancy]. [[User:Ceedjee|Ceedjee]] ([[User talk:Ceedjee|talk]]) 08:36, 29 June 2008 (UTC)



== re:afd ==

You're looking for [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Palestinian Exodus 1949 to 1956]]. <font color="green" face="Comic Sans MS">[[User:Stepshep|§hep]]</font> • <font color="green" face="Comic Sans MS">[[User talk:Stepshep|¡Talk to me!]]</font> 18:24, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

:Also, title has one ''t'' not 2. :D <font color="green" face="Comic Sans MS">[[User:Stepshep|§hep]]</font> • <font color="green" face="Comic Sans MS">[[User talk:Stepshep|¡Talk to me!]]</font> 19:47, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

::With this modification, that should fit your request : ''during and after the 1948 Palestine war'' : [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=1948_Palestinian_exodus&diff=223893384&oldid=223889726]
::But this doesn't solve my (and others) main concerns that you don't succeed in editing in respect of wp:npov.
::Introduce all pov's (pro-Israelis, pro-Palestinians and external on each issue) and give them their due weight and stop moving wp to a battleground of the Arab-Israeli conflict and avoid rejecting some pov's because they do not fit your own convictions.
::[[User:Ceedjee|Ceedjee]] ([[User talk:Ceedjee|talk]]) 11:13, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
Based on the reference you gave in the AfD, that talks about a "whole exodus" that occured between '48 and nowadays, I suggest to create :
* [[Palestinian Emigration from Palestine and Israel]]
it could explain Palestinians and later Arab Israeli fled or were expelled of the area in different waves :
* during the 1948 war ([[1948 Palestinian exodus]])
* between 1949 and 1967 (you could refer to your last article if hte title is modified)
* during the 1967 war ([[1967 Palestinian exodus]]).
* after.
But PLEASE : this must be a synthesis article (see eg [[1948 Palestine war]]) just to give an overview.<br/>
And PLEASE^2 : if such articles interests you, give '''''all relevant pov's''''' (see [[WP:Writing for the enemy]]).<br/>
[[User:Ceedjee|Ceedjee]] ([[User talk:Ceedjee|talk]]) 11:50, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
---
Ceedjee I do give due weight....I do not rely upon one historian, social historian, and I most certainly do not take Benny at face value....and Uri has done a more full job from the Israeli perspective than Morris...but they are only from the Israeli perspective[[User:Ashley kennedy3|Ashley kennedy3]] ([[User talk:Ashley kennedy3|talk]]) 12:51, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
:If I thought so, I would not have written this.
:And I am not the only one to have the same analysis.
:Even Nishidani discussed this with you...
:[[User:Ceedjee|Ceedjee]] ([[User talk:Ceedjee|talk]]) 13:47, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
Emigration is a POV title. [[Deportation]] hardly covers the actual events. Benny is only an archivist Historian (who is reliant, mainly, on Israeli archives) not a social historian and does not display much understanding of political events outside of Israel; Benny's conclusions are consequently Israeli POV and I'm not the only person to form that analysis. Benny does not give due weight to neutral sources and again I am not the only person to come to that conclusion.....Nishidani has discussed it with you and given small asides to myself mainly saying that you are a trustworthy neutral editor; I have not found to be the case so far...[[User:Ashley kennedy3|Ashley kennedy3]] ([[User talk:Ashley kennedy3#top|talk]]) 13:53, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

== Bayt Hanina ==

See my reply at [[Talk:Beit Hanina]].--[[Special:Contributions/128.139.104.49|128.139.104.49]] ([[User talk:128.139.104.49|talk]]) 10:38, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

:I have provided a figure that varies significantly from the figure in the article, which is why I had labeled it as dubious. If no reliable figure can be provided, at least the readers ought to be cautioned that the figure they are reading is unsubstantiated and unlikely. Surely you wouldn't want unsubstantiated material to compromise the integrity of this article, would you?
:The main issue here, I think, is determining what exactly ''is'' Beit Hanina. I know of two entities that are called Beit Hanina, namely, the village under PNA administration (Beit Hanina al-Balad) and the residential area administrated by the Jerusalem municipality. I have provided figures regarding the latter's population, which you for some reason reject. I would very much like to know on what basis do you reject this figure or this interpretation. If you have published material about the geography or demographics of Beit Hanina or about "the Israeli method of counting Palestinians" that contradicts my understanding of the subject, let us examine it together and sort out this issue.--[[Special:Contributions/128.139.104.49|128.139.104.49]] ([[User talk:128.139.104.49|talk]]) 14:36, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
::Let me get this straight -- you are saying there are ''three'' Beit Hanina? al-Balad, al-Jadid, and the town? How do you know this?--[[Special:Contributions/128.139.104.49|128.139.104.49]] ([[User talk:128.139.104.49|talk]]) 15:11, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
:::Are you sure? I've looked at different maps from 1879 to 2008 and I can't find any map that shows 'three' Beit Haninas. If you look [http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=31.832285,35.223455&spn=0.026689,0.037594&t=h&z=15 here], you'll see that the village is entirely on the western side of the highway and it is quite distinct from the urban part that seems entirely under the jurisdiction of Jerusalem. I would very much like to see a map that reflects your view, could you tell me where to find such a map?--[[Special:Contributions/128.139.104.49|128.139.104.49]] ([[User talk:128.139.104.49|talk]]) 15:57, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

:I must say this is the first time I hear about this. If this is indeed the case, then surely there must be some published source which confirms your description. Otherwise, this would be considered original research. The only citable description I can think of is that there are two entities, the one under PNA administration and the other being the Jerusalem municipality sub-quarter. Since you disagree with this description, why don't we resume this discussion after some sources can be presented to back up one description or the other?
:And by the way, which 1936 map is that? Aren't 70-year-old maps a wee bit outdated? I have relatively recent Israeli and Soviet 1:50,000 maps, neither show the distinction you made. The [http://www.jnul.huji.ac.il/dl/maps/pal/images/pal0751-17/pal0751-17_a.jpg 1879 map] shows only what appears to be the old village (presumably the new one didn't exist yet). I can look at a 1945 1:25,000 map, but I don't have it and it would take me a few days.--[[Special:Contributions/128.139.104.49|128.139.104.49]] ([[User talk:128.139.104.49|talk]]) 18:53, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
:You'll have to be more specific, I don't even know where to start looking, which map is it exactly? I've seen literally dozens of detailed maps that don't make that distinction you are making.--[[Special:Contributions/128.139.104.49|128.139.104.49]] ([[User talk:128.139.104.49|talk]]) 05:23, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
::The map I linked above is from Kitchener's expedition, and there's no chance the 1945 maps are based on it. The British made very detailed surveys during the Mandate period and the 1870's map would have be antique even back then. Anyway, the PEF maps show only one Beit Hanina, located where the PNA-administrated village is approximately. I'll have a look at those maps hopefully this week.--[[Special:Contributions/128.139.104.49|128.139.104.49]] ([[User talk:128.139.104.49|talk]]) 05:47, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

== [[Ghada Karmi]] ==

Although she has a post at Exeter University, Ghada actually lives in London. In Golders Green, in fact, where her father bought a house after their expulsion from Jerusalem. And she appears in Eran Torbiner's interesting, but in my opinion flawed, film about Matzpen. [[User:RolandR|RolandR]] ([[User talk:RolandR|talk]]) 21:33, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

:She wasn't a member of Matzpen. She met and worked with founders who later became political exiles in London. She spoke in the film about the importance of the movement for Palestinian radicals like herself. This is discussed in her book In Search of Fatima. [[User:RolandR|RolandR]] ([[User talk:RolandR|talk]]) 23:07, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

::I've just looked at the page for the first time, and agree that it is skimpy. I'll see what I can do to improve it -- currently there is more space on links and bibliography than on text. If I can sort out copyright issues, I would really like to include the famous 1970s picture of her and US Jewish activist Ellen Siegel carrying placards "I am a Palestinian Arab. I was born in Jerusalem. Palestine is my homeland but I cannot return there" and "I am an American Jew. I was born in USA. Israel is not my homeland. But I can 'return' there". [[User:RolandR|RolandR]] ([[User talk:RolandR|talk]]) 00:24, 7 July 2008 (UTC)



==Beit Jala reprisal raid==
Benny Morris Border wars....n 16 p.215 ‘Western diplomats were not convinced that the Feistinger rape-murder was the work of infiltrators. In Apr.1953 the US consul-general in Jerusalem wrote: ’It was never shown that the act was not committed by her Israeli boy-friend’...[[User:Ashley kennedy3|Ashley kennedy3]] ([[User talk:Ashley kennedy3#top|talk]]) 21:28, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

The rape should not be in the article apart from a passing mention as it is unsubstantiated going by your own rules....[[User:Ashley kennedy3|Ashley kennedy3]] ([[User talk:Ashley kennedy3#top|talk]]) 20:58, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

== 24 hour block ==

I've blocked you for 24 hours under the [[Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Palestine-Israel_articles#Discretionary_sanctions|ArbCom discretionary sanction]] for disruptive editing. In future, please use the talk page to establish [[WP:CONSENSUS|consensus]] instead of [[WP:EDITWAR|edit warring]]. [[User:PhilKnight|PhilKnight]] ([[User talk:PhilKnight|talk]]) 20:45, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

I did use the talk page many times ceedjee did not bother..Ceedjee edits on Beit jala are extreme POV..[[User:Ashley kennedy3|Ashley kennedy3]] ([[User talk:Ashley kennedy3#top|talk]]) 20:48, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
:You haven't been blocked because of me.
:Somebody else required this.
:But whatever, after [[user:Nishidani]], [[user:Ynhockey]], [[user:Gilabrand]] and I told you there was a problem in your editing. After Al Amer-Son warned you about [[wp:own]] and now after a sysop ([[user:Philknight]]) blockaded you for 24 hours, you should at least admit there is a problem with you and stop seeing it in the other contributors...<br/>
:Take benefit of this time to think about all that was told you until now. [[User:Ceedjee|Ceedjee]] ([[User talk:Ceedjee|talk]]) 20:58, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Your POV in the Lead section is not the place for POV....[[User:Ashley kennedy3|Ashley kennedy3]] ([[User talk:Ashley kennedy3#top|talk]]) 21:03, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

User ceedjee is a POV editor...Benny Morris Border wars....n 16 p.215 ‘Western diplomats were not convinced that the Feistinger rape-murder was the work of infiltrators. In Apr.1953 the US consul-general in Jerusalem wrote: ’It was never shown that the act was not committed by her Israeli boy-friend’ has been pointed out yet Ceedjee insits that the Israeli only version should be used. The UN investigating officer also also found not evidence that infiltrators were involved....[[User:Ashley kennedy3|Ashley kennedy3]] ([[User talk:Ashley kennedy3#top|talk]]) 18:51, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

::You are currently edit warring, instead of using the talk page to establish consensus. If this continues, you could be blocked. [[User:PhilKnight|PhilKnight]] ([[User talk:PhilKnight|talk]]) 09:20, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

== 48 hour block ==

You have been blocked for [[W:DE|disruptive editing]] in articles that are covered by the [[Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Palestine-Israel_articles#Discretionary_sanctions|ArbCom discretionary sanctions]]. In future, please use the talk page to establish consensus instead of edit warring. [[User:PhilKnight|PhilKnight]] ([[User talk:PhilKnight|talk]]) 01:59, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

===problematic POV editing, cherry picking and inaccuracies===

Washington, on the other hand, went ahead with formal representations to Tel Aviv, the American consul in Jerusalem called the raid ‘open, organized and provocative brutality’. The State Department told Israel that, while the US understood its difficulties stemming from infiltration, the ‘military incursions by Israel into Jordan or other neighbouring states (for the) purpose (of) shooting people or destroying property appeared to dept as extremely grave violations Armistice Agreement which c(ould) not be justified under any circumstances.’ Dean Acheson spoke of ‘brutal . .terror tactics’ US Ambassador Tel Aviv Monnett Davis initially said IDF got upper hand over avowed policy of government, since the ‘dominant military clique’ held a cynical view of moderates’ efforts to make peace. Benny Morris, Border Wars p. 218-219

Yet according to the article everything was hunky dory in international reactions???

Benny says attack 3 blew up 2 article says blew up 3

From the article:-

On January 6, 1952, three houses in Beit Jala were rigged with explosives and blown up.

What does benny actually say:-

An IDF platoon attacked three of Beit Jala’s outlying houses with light weapons and grenades, and then blew up two of the houses while their occupants were still inside. Benny Morris, Border Wars p.215

...Benny agrees with Hutchison's description...article agrees with no one

from the article:-
<s>
presumed to be revenge for the rape and murder of a Jewish girl by infiltrators from Beit Jala.</s>

Presumed by who??????

By the US:-

‘Western diplomats were not convinced that the Feistinger rape-murder was the work of infiltrators. In Apr.1953 the US consul-general in Jerusalem wrote: ’It was never shown that the act was not committed by her Israeli boy-friend’ Benny Morris, Border Wars n 16 p.215

By the UN:-

Major Loreaux expressed the opinion that the Israeli police would have a better chance of finding the killer than the Arabs would.

looks like the presumption is OR POV...

..Edit warring with someone who has an inability to see Palestinians as people?....Edit warring with someone who has an has an inability to accurately write up events? Edit warring with someone who can't tell the difference between 2 and 3? Edit warring with a a person who sensationalises at the drop of a hat? Edit warring with someone who decides POV is better than references?...

No, that is not edit warring that is trying for NPOV

Gilabrand didn't even know what the Beit Jala reprisal raid was one week ago....Gilabrands knowledge of the Beit Jala reprisal raid extends only as far as the wiki article...Consensus as far as Gilabrand is concerned is complaining to Ceedjee who has a self proclaimed bias...The only way forward in Editing with Gilabrand is through arbitration....[[User:Ashley kennedy3|Ashley kennedy3]] ([[User talk:Ashley kennedy3#top|talk]]) 08:46, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

===Beit Jibrin===

From the article:-

Bayt Jibrin has been renamed over the centuries by those who fought for control of the region. According to some sources, prior to the Roman conquest, the town was known as Beit (or Bet) Guvrin,[dubious – discuss][4][5] (בית גוברין ) deriving from the Aramaic word guvrin (the plural form of gavra meaning "man", or "strong man").[6] The Romans gave it a Greek name, Eleutheropolis (Gr. EX€vOEparrbXcs), meaning “City of the Free".[7][8] In his account of the Jewish revolt in 68 CE, the Roman Jewish historian Josephus called it Betaris, describing it as one of two villages taken by the Romans "right in the heart of Idumea."[9] The Egyptian-Roman geographer Ptolemy referred to it as Baitogabra.[10] To the Crusaders, it was known as Bethgibelin or Gibelin.[11][12] Another name in medieval times may have been Beit Jibril, meaning "house of Gabriel".[12] In Arabic, Bayt Jibrin (بيت جبرين) means "house of the powerful".[13]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gilabrand your web site gives as reference to the use of the name Bet Guvrin:-

History of Occupation: (Mareshah/Eleutheropolis/Bet Jubrin)

A. Late Bronze Age: Josh. 15:44 mentioned as city of Judah.
Joshua 15:42 to 44 reads:-
Libnah, and Esher, and Ashan; and Iphtah,and Ashnah,and Nezib; and Keilah, and Achzib, and '''Mareshah'''; nine cities with their villages.

B. United Kingdom: no mention.

C. Divided Kingdom:

1) A city fortified by Rehoboam (2 Chron. 11:5-8). which reads:-
Jeroboam. And Rehoboam dwelt in Jerusalem, and built cities for defence in Judah. He built even Beth-lehem, and Etam, and Tekoa, and Beth-zur, and Soco, and Adullam, and Gath, and '''Mareshah''', and Zith, and Adoraim, and lachish, and Azekah, and Zorah, and Aijalon, and Hebron, which are in Judah and in Benjamin, fenced cities.

2) Good King Asa (3rd king of DK) attacked by Zerah of Sudan (called the Ethiopian) sets stage for great victory spoils for Judah (2 Chron. 14:8-10). Whichreads:-
And Asa had an army that bare bucklers ans spears, out of Judah three hundred thousand; and outof Benjamin,that had bare shields anddrewbows, two hundred andfour score thousand:all these were mighty men of valour. And there came out against them Zerah the etheopian with an army of a thousand thousand, and three hundred chariots; and he came unto '''Mareshah'''

3) Micah 1:15 Tells of the coming judgment described in the trail of Philistine armies from Gath to an invasion of Judah, it makes way through Mareshah. Micha 1:15 reads:-
I will yet bring unto thee, O inhabitants of '''Mareshah''', him that that will possess thee: the glory of Israel will come even unto Adullam

D. Judah Alone: no mention.

E. Persian Period: no mention.

F. Hellenistic Period: C4BCE populated by Idumeans, Sidonians and Greeks, (based on burial evidence). Lower city built. Few Jews and Egyptians. Circa 113 BCE, John Hyrcanus I (Hasmonean) converted city and environs to Judaism, Upper and Lower city become ruins.

G. Roman Period: Repopulated until destroyed in 40 BCE by Parthians. Birthplace of Herod the Great. Replaced by Betaris: mentioned first by Josephus in 68 CE as conquered by Vespasian. Crowded with Jews between 70 CE and 132 CE. About 200 CE Emperor Septimus Severus renamed city Eleutheropolis or city of the free, granted it municiple status. Aqueducts, five highways, ampitheatre, public market built.

H. Byzantine Period: C3-4 CE sages mentioned like Rabbi Yonaton and Rabbi Yehuda Ben Yaacov lived here. Large Jewish cemetery discovered. Several churches (including St. Anne’s) built.Ptolomy Betogabra early Byzantium then Bet Guvrin

I. Early Arab Period: Most of the Bell caves dug in early Arab period, used for building chalk road surfaces.

J. Crusader Period: Church in lower city (near road) dedicated in 1136 CE.

K. Modern Period: Arab village position of Egyptian Army (took British Taggart fort) June 48, removed October 48 by Israel. May 49 Kibbutz established.

only one little detail wrong Josephus doesn't refer to Beth Guvrin as claimed by the reference but he did call it Betaris. Sorry but you'll have to find another reference. The first time the Beth Guvrin is used is in the Talmud either the cCE200 or the cCE500. And the birth place of Herod??? Ashkelon...no exactly an accurate site....Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 23:27, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

One of your (many) problems is that you keep up a steady patter, but never look at the answers. I wrote above that the Jerusalem Talmud was compiled in the 3rd-4th centuries. Here is a source for the fact that Rabbi Jonathan of Beit Guvrin is from the 3rd century. "Jonathan (Nathan) of Bet Gubrin: Palestinian scholar of the third century; junior of Joshua b. Levi and senior of Simon b. Pazzi (Cant. R. i. 1). He confined his labors to the Haggadah, and contributed to the Midrash several homilies, some of which, however, are given under different names in other compilations. One of his sayings was: "Four great languages have been given to the world: Greek for song, Aramaic for dirges, Hebrew for conversation, Latin for war" (Yer. Meg. i. 71b; comp. Esth. R. iv. 6; Midr. Teh. xxxi. 21). Bibliography: Bacher, Ag. Pal. Amor. iii. 592.S. S. S. M." [http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?letter=J&artid=404]--Gilabrand (talk) 11:35, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Exactly 3rd 4th century and not pre Roman. so are you going to remove the pre roman reference.....The bible references are to Mareshah not bet GuvrinAshley kennedy3 (talk) 18:07, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

All the material I have cited above shows that Beit Guvrin was inhabited by those who fled Maresha, before the Roman period. I am anxiously awaiting the learned book you are writing on the history of the world. When that happens, you can rewrite Wikipedia. --Gilabrand (talk) 19:01, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Beit Guvrin is not mentioned in the Bible, Beit guvrin is only mentioned in the Talmud 3, 4 century. I haven't re-written the bible however you are attempting to do so... until you finish your re-write the references you are using say that your use of bet guvrin for a pre-Roman name is incorrect...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 20:51, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

As shown Gilabrand will ignore facts that do not suit Gilabrands POV.....Yes I am fed up with Gilabrand's stupidity and ignorance......[[User:Ashley kennedy3|Ashley kennedy3]] ([[User talk:Ashley kennedy3#top|talk]]) 09:17, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

First time that Bet Gubrin is heard of is from ''JONATHAN (NATHAN) OF BET GUBRIN'' 3rd century.
[http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?letter=J&artid=404].....[[User:Ashley kennedy3|Ashley kennedy3]] ([[User talk:Ashley kennedy3#top|talk]]) 09:31, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Revision as of 01:09, 11 October 2008

Template:Infobox Israel municipality Karnei Shomron, or Qarne Shomron, (Hebrew: קרני שומרון), meaning literally "the Horns of Samaria" is an Israeli local council that was first established in 1977. in the western Samaria region (West Bank), east of Kfar Saba. It is 48 kilometres (30 mi) north-east of Tel Aviv and 85 kilometres (53 mi) north of Jerusalem. According to the Israel Central Bureau of Statistics (CBS) end of 2006 estimate, the population of Karnei Shomron is 6,300.

Karnei Shomron is now actually made up of a group of several previously independent Israeli settlements that were united in 1991:

  • Karnei Shomron - established in 1977 and now includes about 450 families,
  • Ginot Shomron - established in 1984 and now includes about 850 families,
  • Neve Menachem - established in 1991 and now includes about 220 families,

as well as newer neighbourhoods called Alonei Shilo (1999, 25 families and a large girls midrasha), Mitzpe Tzvaim, and Ramat Gil'ad.

The chief rabbi of Karnei Shomron is Rabbi Yitzhak Halevi. Herzl Ben-Ari is the head of the Karnei Shomron Local Council. Prominent Likud member and Manhigut Yehudit Chairman Moshe Feiglin lives in Karnei Shomron.

Terror attacks

On February 16, 2002, 3 teenagers were murdered and over 30 civilians were injured in suicide bombing at a pizzeria in the center of town.[1]

References

  1. ^ CNN Victims of Terror for 2002 Page

External links

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