Talk:Greg Maddux

Reverted Edit

I changed the line "some consider him one of the greatest pitchers in major league baseball, but some consider him to be highly overrated" back to "generally thought as being one of the greatest pitchers in the history of Major League Baseball" because there are very few people who consider him overrated, especially from achieving 300 wins all in an era of a 5 man rotation staff and increased relieve pitching.04:58, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Is it just me, or is the main body of the text very unorganized? It seems to jump around a lot.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Cinquad (talk • contribs)

I would agree - I have added sections as well as an info-box - please feel free to add any extra info you can find to the box, as well as moving text around and adding/changing the name of sections. Mrmaroon25

This is a nice page, though, it is indeed a bit unorganized. The info is fine, it just needs a bit of restructuring. However, It does lack a section on Maddux's career with the Cubs. I'll work on it. Yadin twelve 20:57, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Uh, whoever editted the stats section needs to get their facts right. Even if Roger Clemens was still pitching, Greg Maddux would have a lower career ERA. And besides, Pedro Martinez has a lower career ERA than both of them. And John Franco is a relief pitcher. Many relief pitchers have a lower ERA than 3.00, so comparing starting pitchers and relief pitchers is not significant.--ScipioAfricans 02:01, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm, I am Greg Maddux's biggest fan. I have closely followed just about every game he has pitched since 1990. Given the fact that he pitched during an offensive era and still had a historically low era and whip, 4 Cy Youngs, and 300 + wins in a 5 man rotation, I believe he is one of the 5 to 7 greatest pitchers of all time. But to compare his ERA to Clemens and say it is better is unfair. Clemens pitched a large percentage of his career in the American leage with the DH. This means two things. His ERA will be higher. At the same time though, it gives Clemens a better chance to pick up wins {with no pitching switch needed for a pinch hitter}. {Michael}

I'd like to contribute to this page. I agree that we cannot compare ERA's of relief pitchers' and starting pitchers. I have a different question: I remember watching Maddux's first game pitched in the ML. He threw a complete game, but lost. I cannot remember who he faced (or any other detail, other than it was late in the seaons and he was called up from AAA Iowa). Does anyone have any info on this (I am currently searching). Em-jay-es 06:18, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

I looked up the box scores for 1986, and Maddux's first pitching appearance was on September 2nd. He gave up one run on one hit, getting the loss in the 18th inning. box score His first major league start was on September 7 where he pitched a complete game and picked up the win. box score. Petedoane 05:08, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Current Statistics

I removed the part of the "Statistics" section that referred to Maddux's 2006 stats. Aside from that section not being updated in a month, it would have to be updated after every start to remain accurate. In addition, the content is not particularly encyclopedic- knowing what Maddux's season ERA as of some date ix X.XX means nothing five days later. -- Kicking222 20:38, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

John Franco

I'm no John Franco fan, and never have been. I'm a Cubs fan, so my bias (if any) is actually for Greg Maddux. But ERA has the same meaning whether SP or RP, and John Franco and Pedro Martinez are the only "active" pitchers with a significant number of IP (1000 is the cutoff on MLB.com) that have an ERA lower than that of Maddux. For example, Trevor Hoffman and Mariano Rivera both have just over 800 IP; Armando Benitez has under 700; Troy Percival has just over 600; and Brad Lidge, Felix Rodriguez, and Chad Cordero all have under 300 IP. Jpers36 06:18, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

I'll take your word for it.--12.218.83.242 21:00, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Actually, ERA doesn't mean the exact same thing for starters and relivers. Everything else being equal you can expect a reliver's ERA to be about a full point lower. One reason is that inherited runners count against the pitcher they got on base against. Another being that relivers only pitch an inning or two at a time, so they don't have to pace themselves to go 6-9 innings. So while Franco has a lower ERA for the qualifier, it doesn't mean the same thing.

Um...

A baseball traditionalist, Maddux insists that the Cubs wear their white home jersey on the days that he is their starting pitcher.

And yet the pic shows him wearing blue? Tromboneguy0186 15:29, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

The pic comes from Spring Training, when the team wears batting practice jereseys on the road.

umm..no pic?

Why isnt there a picture of Greg Maddux? Patbaseball2221 21:33, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

I didn't delete the picture, but the previous picture showed Maddux in a Cubs uniform. I'm sure that a new picture will be posted as soon as he has one taken in a Dodgers uniform. --Mrquizzical 22:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

I've uploaded a picture I took last night. It's grainy and a little blurry but -- at least, I thought -- better than nothing. I didn't know what size or shape it should be or where it should go in the article... I didn't find any consistency in other baseball articles. Any suggestions? VermillionBird 03:29, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Or, MLB has a new publicity pic: [[1]] which seems kind of dodgy but it seems is widely used. VermillionBird 04:14, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

I added a free use Cubs pic the pic in the infobox is used to identifuy what he looks like. A pic with a player on his current team is best but any pic is preferable. Pics should not be removed or deleted if a player changes teams. Quadzilla99 19:38, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Goodbye Greg

Thanks for your time in chicago you will be missed

starts missed?

does anyone have any numbers on how many starts Maddux has missed in his career? Kingturtle 14:30, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't know of anywhere that keeps track of missed starts. Though from looking at his stats I would say he has probably never missed a start. At most, he could have only missed a handful. Since 1988 (his third season in the majors) he has started at least 33 games (except the shortented seasons of 1994 and 1995) and pitched at least 200 innings (expect 2002 when he pitched 199 1/3 innings). Petedoane 23:02, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Not entirely sure. Can only be 1 or 2 since he has been on the disabled list only once in his career, and I assume it's of the 15 day variety.--ScipioAfricans 09:52, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Greg Maddux missed one start... it was while on the DL... He has had some scares while in spring training which has caused him to start the second game of the season... maddux31holytrinity sep 2, 2006

No Reference Tag

I removed the no reference tag in the team tenure section. None of the statistics list their references either. The tenures listed are accurate and can be easily checked through three of the external links. Petedoane 18:15, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

The Braves Years

The section called "The Braves Years" has one paragraph dealing with Maddux's time with the Braves, and four paragraphs that have nothing to do with the Braves at all. Any objections to just eliminating the heading and moving the info to the Teams or Accomplishments sections as appropriate? Mrquizzical 06:57, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

I'd actually like to see the section rewritten, not necessary deleated. The teams section delt with his Cub years.--Maddux31holytrinity 02:00, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Actually I took a look at the Roger Clemens page, and since many fans consider the two to be close, i figured the pages should be somewhat alike. I've used to clemenes page as a model for this one. i've also moved some of the information that has nothing to do with the Braves. this whole article is still quite messy to me.--Maddux31holytrinity 02:18, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Nicknames

Where could we find a place to mention his nicknames "Mad Dog" and "The Professor"? 216.246.231.112 13:37, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Somone already put it in his Trivia or Personal life section. --  ShadowJester07  ►Talk  15:21, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Too many quotes

The quotes in the Carlos Zambrano article that you cited seem very different than the deleted Greg Maddux quotes. (Frankly, the Zambrano pullquotes-- "I made one mistake"; "I felt good today"; "I threw strikes and made my pitches"-- are all boilerplate drivel that could apply to any pitcher ever.) The Maddux quotes under discussion are longer, true, but not at all generic. Consequently, they are far more illustrative of his character, savvy, and style of pitching.

I would ask you to compare the disputed internal quotes and pullquotes for Maddux NOT to Zambrano's-- where the quotes are barely worthwhile-- but instead, to the various quotes in the Wiki articles for Lou Gehrig, Rickey Henderson, Pete Rose, Phil Rizzuto, Alex Rodriguez, Albert Belle, Satchel Paige, Ty Cobb, Barry Bonds, Pedro Martinez, Stan Musial, and numerous others. For many athletes, supplemental material (including quotes by and about the subject) has been requested by editors and admins, to keep articles from focusing too much on the bland recitation of statistics. (i.e. "In 1995, he scored 15 touchdowns. In 1996, he scored 22 touchdowns. In 1996, he was injured. In 1997...")

I have not re-reinserted the quotes, because their relevance and value should be discussed here first. However, I hope you will reconsider your edits in this light. Thanks!208.120.227.69 04:48, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

While I agree with you simply regurgitating statistics would make the article bland and repetitive, adding quotes all over the article seems rather unorthodox for Wikipedia articles. However, The Michael Jordan article uses two unique and defining quotes from notable sources to explain his legacy and reputation See Michael Jordan#Legacy. His other quotes are kept on his Wikiquote page. Quotable people George Washington, Franklin D. Roosevelt, or Mahatma Gandhi, only use quotes when addressing specific issues about the person, ei concepts they introduced or very important things they said, verses the Maddux quotes (though substantial) which are in essence are being used decoration.

I do not think you need quotes. Look at the Chris Young (pitcher) article. The authors did a fine job at writing the article, keeping it informative while also non-repetitive. I guess the ability to make a page more interesting relies on the artistry or creativity of an author. Maddux has led an interesting career, perhaps it would be best to go into detail as to what made it so interesting - the article (in its current) seemingly basically outlines his life, and seemingly spliced various statistics into the article. Surely, there are biographies, gamelogs, and articles which go into further depth about Maddux and his playing career. Also, please be sure to cite where you got your information from, see WP:Cite and WP:CITET. Thanks for your time --►ShadowJester07  14:32, 9 July 2007 (UTC)