Talk:Mawlid

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vandalism

Somebody is inserting vandalism in the first paragraph but somehow that does not appear in 'edit this page': how do you deal with that??? Arahmim1 23:03, 5 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, I've removed the block of text prior to the bolded title. Is that good? I don't know much about what I've deleted; although it was obviously out of place. If someone is an expert, please see if there was material that should remain in the article. Thanks --Treeears 23:10, 5 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

the strange thing was that somebody had added vandalism without it actually showing up in 'edit this page' and by the time you arrived on the scene, that was gone (except my warning sign). How's that possible for somebody to vandalize without changing 'edit this page'??? Arahmim1 00:57, 6 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Section for Disputes

I noticed that there is no section in this article for disputes. While it does mention up front that many but not all Sunni Muslims celebrate this day, I think the article would be enriched on expanding the pros and cons people see from different perspectives (i.e., for or against). MezzoMezzo 21:14, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

While someone did appear to add a section about different views, it was an issue to the point where I saw the need to remove it. It was very clearly written from the perspective of a religious Muslim rather than neutral; it was more of a religious polemic than an encyclopedic article. "Allah knows best" and unnecesary praise of Muhammad don't add to the educational value of the article. In addition, someone also added a link for Ahlus Sunnah wa'l Jammah after Sunni Muslims who celebrate Mawlid. This is a bias, as Salafis who oppose Mawlid also often refer to themselves with this term, so that issue itself is disputed. It doesn't belong in this article. MezzoMezzo 14:56, 24 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Madih nabawi

If anyone knows, could they please add some information that shows why the section on Madih nabawi is part of the Mawlid article? I didn't see an obvious connection between the two subjects in the article. Is Madih nabawi traditionally performed during Mawlid or something?

Also, this article seems to be fairly comprehensive. Does it really warrant a stub tag?

Looking at the history I can't remember. Madih nabawi is often a part of Mawlid, but the description doesn't seem Mawlid specific. Hyacinth 13:33, 29 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Arabic script

I've added it, and removed the Arabic-script tag from the talk page. --Skoosh 03:25, 14 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Moved commentary from an anonymous user

An anonymous contributor (24.88.247.201) added the following section to the document. It is POV and therefore not appropriate for the article itself, so I am moving it here. –Abe Dashiell (t/c) 13:33, 29 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

According to authentic Islam and Muslin scholars, no such thing called Mawlid in Islam. Nether Profit Mohammed (pbuh) nor Sahaba (Companions of the Profit, pbuh) or Al elBait (Family of the Profit, pbut) celebrated this day. If some Muslims today are doing it, it is because of ignorance. Muslims should live the example of the Profit, pbuh and his Family, pbut and the Sahaba, may Allah be pleased with them all, in a daily bases.

All Muslims in The world Celebrate The Prophet Mouhammad Birth , It's A Good inovation to do it . What is bad to make islamic chants , give food to poor people and gather on the good deeds ? The Only People who deny the Prophet Birth are the Deviated Wahhabies follower of Ibn Taymiya and Mouhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab also They are Responsable of the 9/11 Attack on the World Trade Center in other word just Terrorists . --Muslim sunni 04:28, 11 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
First of all, no trolling, second of all- I am anti-wahhabist and I don't believe in mawlid. Sweeping generalizations are bad on any subject. Careful. Angrynight 04:37, 11 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Million of Muslims around the world celebrate the Mawlid, as i Said it's a Good Inovation and people who celebrate get Rewards . Muslim sunni


Unfortunately the word ‘Mawlid’ has a very negative stigma attached to it and no less supported by our Wahabi brothers. The real aim here would be dissect what this really consists of and whether this is considered as shirk? Throughout the world, people celebrate the birth of the holy and last messenger of god. This consists of holding sermons, giving out food & sweets or wearing new cloths. Upon looking at this breakdown, each individual aspect would not be frowned upon by any Muslim. But when combining them and calling it ‘mawlid’, this causes great resentment and anger. This it seem has come down to miscommunication which if understood and acknowledged would help strength communities and not divide them.

Mawlid in itself is not wrong. Those who insist Mawlid must be celebrated on the 12th Rabi-ul-Uwal and only then may be incorrect although Allah knows best. We should celebrate the birth of the prophet every day of our lives giving thanks, and many people throughout the world do this. He was after all the mercy to mankind. Those who celebrate it upon the 12th Rabi-ul-Uwal are not deviant but they must continue to celebrate this by taking about his message throughout the year. Only then would we be able to break away from the accusation and counter accusation. 22/05/06 194.35.186.254

Irrelevent text

I removed some text after Muhammad's name, it is not necessary to the article and doesn't keep to the impartiality required of Wikipedia, religious praises aren't necessary: 58.104.82.82

in Islam it is required to say after the prophet name : Peace Be Upon Him. Muslim sunni
What's your point? Wikipedia is not a religion, it is meant to be purely factual. Wikipedia does not respect any particular religious belief. For example see Jyllands-Posten Muhammad cartoons controversy. I hardly call the cartoons depicting The Prophet Mohammad to be "respectful" towards Islam. -AlexJohnc3 01:29, 16 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Brother Muslim sunni Salaam. No doubt we have to say PBUH after his name. However this is not wikipedia (a secular encyclopedia), not islamiwiki or something. I you put honorific titles before the Prophet (S.A.W.), and non-Muslim editors removes it, it wont be good. Please avoid honorific titles before our prophets and saints. I will remind you of the Treaty of Hudaybiyyah. Ali (RA) had written Muhammed Prophet of God in the deed. Meccan delegation objected that if they had recognized Muhammed as a Prophet, then there would have been no dispute in the first place. On Ali not finding the power to strike of "Rasulullah" (Prophet of God), Muhammed himself went ahead and struck it off. The point is, when dealing with non-Muslims, the reference to his prophet is not a show stopper. You may say so in the discussion page though. Wassalam Hassanfarooqi 16:39, 27 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

One-Sidedness

Descriptions of this article are only one-sided and biased. The writer only expresses that he/she hasn't got any impartial study on the topic. Unprejudiced approach is required to touch such sensitive topics. Muhammad (Peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) is the center of faith and love to all the Muslims. I don't know what's wrong with celebrating the day of that person whom you love the most especially when every month we are now celebrating this or that day. If we can celebrate a father's day, a mother's day etc., why shouldn't we tell our new generation that this personality is even more important than your parents?

This year, I fasted on this day, I gave to charity, I gathered my children and told them how the prophet (Peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) led his life, I told them what we should do and then we all tried our best to follow maximum of his sunnahs all day. I don't know where I or my children were wrong or still we need any reference for the authentication that we were only doning something good on this day?

202.147.173.115

Missing date

In the list of dates, there is an error or omission:

  • 2015: January 2

and

  • 2016: December 22

are separated by nearly two whole years. This error arises because the list only shows one date in each Gregorian year. There should be two dates listed in the year 2015, one in January and one in December.

I suspect that the list should show the months and dates as currently displayed, but the years should follow the pattern ...2013,2014,2015,2015,2016,2017... ie this would be an error in all the dates after January 2, 2015.

The alternative is that all the dates listed are correct, and that there is an omission in the month of December 2015.

However I don't have access to the resources to check/confirm this, so I haven't made any changes.

Sunni Bias

I noticed that it had been edited to only reflect the Sunni celebration dates of each year and had omitted all references to there even being a Shia date or this date being 5 days different. I have reverted it to an older version which contained these as they are extremely important to preserving a balance and not favouring the Sunni over the Shia. Any edits since then have been cancelled, so please edit and do not omit this information. 71.71.18.56

Please do no refer to the bias as a Sunni bias. It may be a bias by a Sunni and that too you do not know. It is vandalism, plain and simple. Hassanfarooqi 16:15, 27 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sunni/Shi'a Dates & re: 'PBUH'

When an observance is on different dates for Sunnis and Shi'as, both dates should be listed and labelled appropriately. Wikipedia is for the dissemination of factual information, not opinion. Such factual information should be as complete as possible.

In that vein, I think it's quite appropriate to state that it is customary for Muslims to say 'Peace and Blessings Upon Him' following a mention of the Prophet's name, in the article about Muhammad, but inappropriate to use honorifics in other contexts in wiki entries. Entries should be instructive, but from a (religiously, politically, etc.) neutral viewpoint. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 4.248.241.28 (talk) 01:10, 2 January 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Merge

I believe the merge from Milad-e-sherif would be appropriate, since it is a short description of the ceremony. The article Milad is much longer and while it developed from this holiday, it means much more and would probably only confuse if it were added here. Rigadoun (talk) 18:27, 11 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Some Sunni Muslims celebrate Vs Most

Disagreement has been raised about the words "most Sunni Muslims" celebrate Mawlid. This is factually correct, even if you diagree with Mawlid you cannot hide the fact that the vast majority of Sunni Muslims do celebrate it in some way or another. The only countries that do not celebrate are Saudi Arabia, and possibly another 1 or 2 gulf nations that don't, or strictly secular ex-communist nations like kazakhstan.

Sunni Countries that definately don't celebrate Mawlid:

  • Saudi Arabia
  • and Qatar

Sunni Countries that DO celebrate Mawlid:

The links posted here needed to be removed based on Wikipedia's spam filter. But you can view the whole list of Sunni countried that celebrate Mawlid here: [1] with refs provided as proof

I think the above exhaustive list proves the point that MOST not some Sunnis celebrate Mawlid, even if you dispute the odd one being sunni like Iraq. Aaliyah Stevens 23:28, 29 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I really have to disagree with your line of thinking here. The government in a certain country recognizing the day does not equal every Muslim person in that country celebrating it. In fact, I will say with confidence that is impossible to know the extent of the number of Muslims who celebrate Mawlid, as it is impossible to take a survey of all billion-plus Muslim people in the world.

Furthermore, I think that "the vast majority of" is a very biased term, even when compared to "most". Most is simply a designation that more than half do; the vast majority is an unnecesary adjective as most is neutral yet conveys the same percentage/portion.

I am changing it back to some at this time. When you can provide proof that most of the world's Muslim people to celebrate it - and as I stated above, the government recognizing a day as special does not equal every person in that country (or even any at all) celebrating it - then you will have proven your point. But as it stands now, what you have provided here does not constitue proof and isn't scientific/encyclopedic (I think that's a word). MezzoMezzo 00:45, 30 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

OK, change it to "The vast majority of Sunni nations", or simply most Sunnis. The fact that is is a national holiday in almost every single Sunni country, is a reflection of the people those governments have to appease to a certain extent. You will never find a national survey of every Muslim nation with stats on how many do mawlid, that is currently impossible, and not the kind of question national surveys ask anyway. "some" does not imply a majority, when it is palpably obvious that the majority of Sunnis do, if you have traveled throughout the ummah like I have. And hear is further evidence: The classical Sunni Ulema accepted Mawlid as ijma, only ibn Taymiyyah rejected it, but even he said that it is better than alternatives, and that people celebrating it would be rewarded for their good intentions if not for the actions ("Majma' Fatawi Ibn Taymiyya,") Vol. 23, p. 163:). The only Sunnis who reject Mawlid are Wahabi/salafi influenced Sunnis, who are a minority, most Sunni Muslims are Hanafi, then Shafi'i, then Maliki, who all celebrate it. PS this does not mean I believe in it, I'm just stating a fact that the vast majority of Sunnis do Aaliyah Stevens 13:15, 30 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I am glad that you are willing to work with me on this, so let's try to resolve this as soon as possible. Six points from what you wrote:
1. I still feel that the vast majority of Sunni nations is a biased term, as "vast majority" is an unnecesary adjective; adjectives are something to generally be avoided in an encyclopedia. If we were to agree that the majority do celebrate it, "most" or "most Sunni governments" would suffice, though most is better because it is short, concise, and gets to the point.
2. Government holidays do not necesarily reflect on the people. We recognize Jewish holidays in the United States; that doesn't mean that most of America celebrates it. Chinese New Year is recognized in Malaysia but the Chinese still aren't the majority. To use what the government recognizes isn't accurate, as not all official holidays in a country are celebrated by the entire populace.
3. You made my point for me with your comment on no national survey being taken. Surveys don't ask those kind of questions, therefore it is impossible to know if the majority of Muslims do celebrate Mawlid (or even Eid for that matter).
4. You traveling in Muslim countries does not count as proof. There are more than a billion Muslims; I can guarantee you that you haven't even me a fraction of them and neither have I or anyone else on here.
5. I don't care about the Ulema's position on Mawlid; I have only been Muslim for five years and am more concerned with trying to learn the basics. Rulings on it are beyond my knowledge. I am not here to debate the validity of Mawlid as I am not qualified to do so, I am just trying to insure that articles on Islamic topics are neutral and educational for the many people who read this site.
6. Your last assertion is clearly incorrect and a wide, sweeping generalization. I know many people at mosques in my town who don't celebrate it, and they aren't Wahhabis or Salafis. You are stereotyping, and that is something I also know that you cannot substantiate with proof.
With that said, I propose the following compromise so we can resolve this issue ASAP and let the article be:
You have not convinced me that most Muslim people in the entire world celebrate this day, and I have not convinced you that they don't. One thing I do think we can agree on, though, is that stereotyping Wahhabis/Salafis as being the only Sunnis that oppose Mawlid is incorrect and also that "the vast majority" is a biased an unnecesary term for what you are trying to convey. You don't want "some" and I don't want "most"; so, I propose that we change is back to "many". This is originally what it was and I eventually changed it so "some". Many is a neutral term that doesn't emphasize exact number but doesn't insinuate just a tiny minority either.
I believe this is acceptable. Please think about this carefully because I feel that is is reasonable and a compromise, because personally I still feel that "some" would be more accurate considering you yourself admitted that it is impossible to take a survey of the Muslims in the world. I am meeting you halfway and I think you'll find that this is a fair compromise. MezzoMezzo 14:39, 30 March 2007 (UTC) (crap, forgot to sign)[reply]
Mezzo, I'd agree with Aaliyah on this one. If the majority of Muslim governments recognize the holiday, then it is incumbent upon you to provide proof that it is not part of common culture within those countries. I think "many" with a later explanation of regions that do not celebrate it would properly express the facts presented here. I can't offer any further evidence one way or the other, though, and applaud both of you in your civility. Elijahmeeks 19:05, 31 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]


To adaquately prove most vs. some, it would be required to collect the views of a represenative sample of Muslims from all over the world and do stastical analysis on that data. It is insufficient to post links stating that the governments of Muslim countries recognize the holiday as this does not entirely characterize their populus. We can agree that if most were the case, then some would entail the same meaning; the opposite would not necessarily be true. The most vs. some argument I think boils down to which view you take on the issue. However, we have no facts to prove "most" other than what different Muslim governments do. Given that, there seems to be no factual basis for the use of the term "most." ZaydHammoudeh 21:52, 31 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the comments guys. I try my best to be civil, I have read this site longer than I have edited it and have seen revert wars before. I have no desire to take part in one and just want this issue resolved as soon as possible. Elijah - Since I am not the one making the claim - the exact number of Muslims who celebrate Mawlid - I do not feel that the burden of proof lies on me. I thank you for your thoughtful input though; I guess your comment counts in favor of "many" with a later explanation? ZaydHammoudeh - You have stated more or less what I was trying to, but more eloquently than I did. Thank you for the help explaining it better. MezzoMezzo 23:20, 31 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

OK, well I would argue that the fact the every Sunni country celebrates this officially except Saudi (where public displays of Mawlid are banned officially), and the staunchly secular Turkey or Kazakhstan et al, indicates that it is a part of the culture of these societies that could not be removed/ banned or ignored by the governments, unlike many other aspects of Islam e.g Islamic banking. It sounds strange to me to argue that because there are no official surveys to prove Mawlid is celebrated by the majority, even though it is a public holiday in the majority of Sunni nations. This is like saying that there is no evidence to suggest that the majority of people in the west celebrate easter, even though the vast majority of western nations hold easter to be a public holiday. Would it be so controversial to argue that "the vast majority of western nations celebrate easter", even though there are Christian sects that don't?
Anyway, I think that "MANY" is fine if it adds that it is a public holiday in almost every Muslim country, and every Arab country except Saudi and Qatar, and that the "leading institution for Sunni learning in the Islamic world"[2] Al-Azhar has approved Mawlid.
Regarding the refs about Mawlid from books, the page numbers and book names are given, so it is referenced, unless you think I'm not telling the truth. We can change it to "Early Medieval Accounts of Mawlid" if you like?

Aaliyah Stevens 16:22, 2 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]


I think the fact that some famous Islamic institutes have approved the Mawlid says little about its permissibility. If we want to go by Azhar, then we should also say in the Riba article that is now halal as Azhar said so. [3] In addition, the list of countries celebrating the mawlid also fails to characterize the status of Muslims living in non-Muslim countries. The quantifying approach used by listing Muslim countries is severely flawed.
Also, your argument about easter has some fundamental issues that although on the surface seems correct, upon greater scrutiny it does not hold up. The significant difference between Easter argument and the mawlid is that there are specific churches that represent the views of their constituents (e.g. the Catholic Church, Orthodox Church of their respective nations, Anglican Church, etc.); this is not the case in Islam. As such, it is easy to characterize the views of a church's members based on the religious denomination the people belong to. This is not possible with the Mawlid so your argument compares apples to oranges. ZaydHammoudeh 17:37, 2 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Good to hear back from you Sr. Aaliyah, and I am glad that you have taken out the time to respond. I hope you are feeling well. Anyway, like I said before (and as Zayd summed up as well), governments are not necesarily reflective of their constituents. Honestly I would take issue with an article stating that most Christians celebrate Easter if no survey or case study has been done. I would reference my analogy to Jewish holidays in th U.S. again, as I feel that response was sufficient. As far as the "many", I don't think it is necesary to state in the opening paragraph that all Muslim governments recognize it; as I stated above, from a scientific standpoint that is not proof of anything other than government holidays. It's not relevant to the issue of private religious practice among all Sunni Muslims in the world. And for Al Azhar, whether or not it is the leading institution for Sunni Muslims is also an issue of opinion and not fact. Who defines leading and what constitutes it? It's not an objective term. Many people might also claim that Umm al-Qura is the leading institution for Sunnis (also just an opinion) and teachers at that school oppos Mawlid. If we include something from one point of view, we must include the other point, and it's up to the reader to decide which university or opinion or whatever to believe; the encyclopedia and those who write it (us) isn't here to make those judgment calls.

Abou your references...Aaliyah, I have seen your work on this site, and as I said I have much respect for you. You seem to know the ropes of this site, and thus you also know that as a respected encyclopedia site, I can't simply assume you or anyone else is telling the truth without evidence. We need some links of some sort, maybe scholarly opinions to back up the claims made on here. I am not saying this to be mean, wallah i'm not, but look at this from the standpoint of a neutral reader. They need proof of what this article says, and saying to them "Aaliyah is a bright and honest woman" does not constitute proof. I would highly suggest removing the section until we all can research it further. MezzoMezzo 21:17, 2 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Early Accounts of the Mawlid

I think the use of the work "early" in this section is very much a misnomer. For instance, ibn Jubayr was born 500 years after the death of the Prophet. Also for ibn Battuta, it says he was an 8th century historian. I assume this was transcribed from an Islamic article as I assume "8th century" here means hijri and not Gregorian. ibn Battuta was born in 1368 CE, 700 years after the death of the Prophet.

Ibn Jubayr was the first person known to write about the Mawlid in his book Rihal. He was born in 540 AH. This is by no means early. This section should be removed as it does not characterize the true nature of the evidence. ZaydHammoudeh 22:07, 31 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting stuff, a bit beyond me though. The main thing I noticed with this section is that it doesn't cite any sources, which is important. I suppose if it isn't an example of early history and/or it doesn't cite sources it isn't particularly helpful. As an aside, I do think that sister Aaliyah Stevens (I believe she added this section) has the best of intentions with her edits. I've seen the help she's given to other articles on Islamic topics and have much respect for her. Perhaps we could remove the section for now and work to improve it, maybe going earlier like to Muhammad's lifetime or the generations following right after him and research accounts from back then. MezzoMezzo 23:33, 31 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The page numbers and book names are given, so it is referenced, unless you think I'm not telling the truth. We can change it to "Early Medieval Accounts of Mawlid" if you like? Also I think we should present the primary (quran and Sunnah) arguments for an against Mawlid by both sides Aaliyah Stevens 16:29, 2 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think the use of the word "Early Medieval Accounts" is also a misnomer. The earliest account of the mawlid you listed is after 1200 CE so that is well past the early parts of the Medieval age. Most list the medieval age of as beginning in the fifth century CE so definitely that is a misnomer. Also, if that section is going to stay, it needs to have time relevance included. Unless you read it indepth, it would not be clear it is the Hijri calender. Also, if early accounts of the mawlid will be included, then the fact that it was started by the Shia Fatimiyyah in Egypt 300 years after hijrah must be mentioned. ZaydHammoudeh 17:27, 2 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Recent POV edits

I just had to undo a very major edit by a user with a history of vandalism and Wikipedia:Neutral point of view violations (I know, because i've had to revert vandalism by this user before). The edits were very POV, inserting the numerical bias that we deleted from the first introductory paragraphs (see the above discussions) and then deleting all but one of the external elinks underneath the Against mawlid sub-section claiming to be deleting "excess links" (none of the links supporting mawlid were deemed "excessive" by this user). Let's please be mature about this and not alter articles to reflect our own personal biases. MezzoMezzo 13:06, 22 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

External Links

Yes Mezzo these are excessive if we start adding so much links in the against of any article than pages like Wahabi and Salafi will have to be Cleane up. There must be reason /Limit in adding links Speially in the gainst ofArticle.

  • Milad is Celebrated in most of the countries of the World by huge majority of Sunni Muslims referenes are given already by Aaliyah .U said You have not convinced me that most Muslim people in the entire world celebrate this day, ,,,.

Dear mezzo this is not ur Blog that One has to Convince You .As you could not give reference to the Point that some Muslim Celebrate Mawlid .Wikipedia is not working to Convince anyone but to Provide facts /Knowledge which is Unbiased. You have history of Vandalism in articles which does not suits to Your Ideology which i came to Know is Wahabi .Please don't post here Your Personal Opinions. Shabiha 23:17, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

First of all, if you feel the links are excessive then in the sake of balance you should have removed links from the supporting side as well. It is not our job as editors of Wikipedia to decide for the readers ahead of time on any controversial issue. Either remove links from both or leave them at both, but to give undue weight to one side of the argument is a breach of the official Wikipedia:Neutral point of view policy.
Second of all, the discussion with Aaliyah was already resolved; the proof was not sufficient and since you have provided nothing new, your edit will not stand.
Third of all, you should really bring proof when you level such heavy accusations as vandalism, otherwise it's just a thinly veiled insult. MezzoMezzo 07:16, 21 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You have asked from Aaliyah proof of Milad Celebration .She Provided links of it in Various Countries which are Muslims.But You Could not prove that It is not Celebrated by Most Muslims?.So Plz tell What Constitute Most?i have not edited that word for this Debate but u have to Support ur View and Prove ur Argument that most Muslims dont Celebrates Milad/Mawlid.I have removed both links equally and shia Celebration should Come after Sunnis. Shabiha 20:51, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

No, I don't have to support my view because I am not the one making the claim; the Burden of proof lies on you. You are making a factual, quantitative claim; unless you can provide proof in support of it, you cannot conclude that it is correct. You have provided nothing that wasn't already provided in the earlier discussion on this topic. MezzoMezzo 01:33, 23 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Read it if u have not [4].These are Muslim Countries where Muslims Celebrates ,also India[en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holidays_in_India] where it is also Public holiday and is Celebrated all over the Country.Now iam adding some line regarding it in various Countries.Shabiha 22:02, 23 October 2007 (UTC) Shabiha (talk • contribs) {{{2

This was already addressed, and I know you're aware of that because you went to the trouble of deleting previous discussions and moving some of them further down the pages, so you obviously saw them.
That list is of governments that recognize Mawlid as a holiday. By that reasoning, since Eid is recognized as a holiday in America most Americans must celebrate Eid. As was explained earlier by myself and others, government recognition does not equal people in that country celebrating it.
Also, lastly, do not delete talk page contents like you did here again. It's vandalism and you have been warned. MezzoMezzo 01:35, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

i have added that in Most of the Muslim Countries it is Celebrated and there are Referenes . so what is Problem? don't do Vandalism. adding some Information which is True and with the line of Article is asolutely not POV .

  • i have not touched word Sizeble i am ready to debate it .
  • but now facts and Proof must be Provided in support of those Many Muslims who dont Celebrate and Support it.
  • excessive links on both sides should be reduced.i deleted tha talk page mistakenly .Shabiha 19:13, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
You didn't provide proof that most Muslim countries celebrate Mawlid though, as I explained in the earlier discussion and in my last comment to you. You've brought the same argument again though, so i'll give the same explanation again.
What has been brought is proof that it is recognized as a government holiday. That is not proof that most of the people living under that government celebrate the holiday. There are many Jewish holidays recognized as official in the United States, for example; by your reasoning, we could conclude that most people in the US must celebrate Jewish holidays. However, we know that isn't the case. So noting what governments recognize what holidays doesn't relate to how many people actually celebrate those holidays.
As for the links, I am all for trimming them down but not arbitrarily. You want to reduce the number, I want to reduce the number, let's work together. I'll let you go first; what would you suggest the criteria be for which links we should keep for both viewpoints? MezzoMezzo 03:26, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

vandalism NPOV

Now it seems You are doing Vandalism . I claimed and i added proof . what i claim is that In Most of the Muslim Countries it is celebrated so people go on Holiday . It is Obvious and Very Musch clear that Holiday is named as Birth day of Prophet Muhammed S.A.W . Now You Just dont want to add that because it does not suit to You that Mawlid which is Very Important Occasion for Muslims ,may get written in actual form on Wikipedia.Any Neutral reader can easily watch Your Illogical and Biased edits.Holiday is for nothing Else but for Celebration.

  • As You could not Provide Proof in support of MANY so i removed it Also .
  • External links i removed and made them equal.and one more thing that if u count there are more links in aginst of it then in support. this shows ur non Neutral Character.Shabiha 08:28, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
Now you're violating the official Wikipedia:No personal attacks policy.
  • If you would actually read the official Wikipedia:Vandalism policy, you would know that vandalism is the intentional compromising of Wikipedia's integrity. POV disputes are not instances of vandalism, and for you to say that displays a gross misunderstanding of official site policy.
  • You don't know the reasons why I am editing and for you to accuse me of editing based on bias is not only a personal attack but also a violation of Wikipedia:Assume good faith.
  • You never proved that Mawlid is celebrated in most Muslim countries; rather, that it is a government holiday. As I said before, would you say that since Yom Kippur is a recognized holiday here in the US that most Americans celebrate Yom Kippur? Of course not. And yet that's the same reasoning you're using here, and instead of defending it or using a different reasoning you're just edit warring, which will not be tolerated.
  • I told you I have no problem with limiting the number of external links, after a discussion. You seem to think that you have a green light to go ahead and arbitrarily remove content even when other editors ask you to gain consensus first; you don't own this article so please stop acting like you do. I will ask you one more time: let's go down the list of external links, and discuss like mature adults which ones should be moved. No one is going to let you barge into any article, attack people personally, edit based off of your own POV, and disregard everyone else. MezzoMezzo 12:44, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Now even other eitor also recognize my Point an Your Bias i like this an supports this edition of starting Paragraph.

i have not attacked You personally butsaid what don't want on this page .without any further argument i add that Now please provide Proof about those who don't Celebrate ...How are they many? Only You think so .Proof?

  • so plz start from ur side to remove external links.

Shabiha 15:59, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

You accused me of vandalism over a POV dispute; if you don't understand how that's a violation of the official Wikipedia:No personal attacks policy, then you obviously haven't read it.
As for other editors, noone else has entered this discussion here so please don't speak for others or assume you know what they think.
As for proof, as I have explained numerous times the Burden of proof lies on you, not me. You have not provided any proof at all as to how many people celebrate Mawlid; just where it is recognized by governments. You seem to be totally ignoring the lapse in your reasoning. Please address what I have brought to you: by the reasoning you're using, we could conclude that most Americans celebrate Eid or Yom Kippur since those are both recognized here in the United States. Yet, we know that isn't the case. It's a good demonstration of the failure of the reasoning you're using, and that showing that Mawlid is simply recognized as a holiday says absolutely nothing about how many people themselves actually celebrate it. So, Shabiha, YOU still need to provide proof for your claim, otherwise we cannot deem it to have any validity.
In regard to the links, I propose off the top of my head cutting the external links down to five for each side of the argument. It's just a random number. How do you feel with that suggestion? MezzoMezzo 23:35, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, Shabiha, you cannot accuse others of vandalism when it is not vandalism. It's concidered a personal attack. It's better to talk things out, and gain consenses for edits, for which you do not agree than calling it vandalism. Thanks. ~Jeeny (talk) 01:16, 26 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

i agree with jeeny's Edits that in[5] MOST Countries in Muslim Worldit is celebrated.

  • Mezzo ur Insisting and not adressing on Many word for those who don't celebrate ,seems You just want to go with

Inserting Your Personal Views.

  • that's why u always says that Milad/Mawlid is not Celebrated by Most of the Muslims.You also inserted Most word for Shias, how?
  • and earlier it u also supported illogial 'commiting of shirk by Mawlid Supporters in article.
  • It is Obvious when Holiday is given by Muslim Country ,is for Celebration Only as is written in this article that large Processions are bring out .And here atleast for now i supports the word Most for Muslims Countries ,Celebration.Please don't try to hide the Obvious an Truth also Jeeny's analogy is worthof.
  • I agree to You to remove 5 links , i suggest they should be from downside. Shabiha 20:04, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Actually, when I spoke to Jeeny on her talk page - and you know this because you commented after I did - she seemed to think that my reasoning made sense. And you still have not yet addressed it - proving that it is a recognized holiday doesn't prove most people celebrate it, just as proving that Yom Kippur is a recognized holiday in the US doesn't prove that most Americans celebrate it. You reasoning is fault and is based on both pure assumption and original research.
Also, in regard to links, what exactly do you mean by "downside"? MezzoMezzo 20:41, 26 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Eid is a recognized holiday in America and certainly American Muslims celebrate it. A government recognized holiday may not conclusively prove that the whole country celebrates it, but it is certainly an indication that it holds some importance within that particular community. --Shahab 10:55, 27 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Oh I know that, I wouldn't dispute that. My issue is that it is impossible to know the exact number of celebrants. "A sizeable number" is a neutral term that is not exact. "Most" is definite and insinuates that the majority, i.e. more than 50%, celebrate it and we have no proof for that. MezzoMezzo 13:43, 27 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Fair Enough.--Shahab 05:46, 28 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Why many for people not Celebrating it?

  • many times i try to bring it in ur notie above heading butYou are not intentionally paying heed so it is time to remove that line.
  • There is Differene between

Mawlid is celebrated in most of the countries in Muslim world as i supported and it is Celebrated by Most of the Muslims of the world as debated.

  • start removing link from downward.

thanks ~ Shabiha 06:19, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Shabiha, the problem is the word "celebrate" because not everyone does celebrate the holiday. It needs to be written that it is a holiday. Just like Christmas is a MAJOR holiday in a lot of countries, but not all people "celebrate" the holiday. Even some Christians do not celebrate it, and many non-Christians do. Try to understand the difference between the words "celebration" and "holiday". I think you will understand better why there is resistance to the way it is worded in the article. ~Jeeny (talk) 11:15, 27 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Firstly it is named as Eid e Milad in Various Muslim Countries in which Eid it self means thatit is celebrated with JoY .And if You want to say that word Celebration is not supported by Proofs then Plz google or Yahoo ! Searh will be better for Mawlid /Milad and You will find in Each and Every item its inalienable attachment with Celebration.
  • Definition- Says ,Mawlid is noun
  • 1. a Muslim holiday celebrating the birth of Muhammad, occurring on the twelfth day of the month of Rabiʿ al-awwal, and characterized esp. by the recitation of panegyrical poems honoring Muhammad.
  • 2. the poems recited on this occasion[6].
  • You will find most of the Links are Saying that by Most Muslims or in Most of Muslim Countries it is Celebrated.
  • i am now making Point with due Stress that You will not find a neutral link saying ,It is celebrated by some or few which means that a huge Majority of Muslims in their Country Celebrates it.
  • Most important as according to You, like Christmas is a MAJOR holiday in a lot of countries, but not all people "celebrate" the holiday. Even some Christians do not celebrate it.It means Simply that
  • 1.Most of the christian Celerbate it.
  • 2. It is Celebrated in most of the Christian World .
  • 3.Those Christians who don't Celebrate it are not more than those Who Celebrte even they are Very Minimal in Comprison to those who Celerate.
  • 4. Finally im saying that it is Observed/Celebrated in Most of the Muslim Countriesbut for Instance if we assume that it is Celebrated by some or many then too it is Celebrated atleast means its Celebration is confirmed see links and Yes in Most of the Muslims Countries thats why Govt has to recognize it as Holiday .

Now What remain is that word Celebrationis not Linked to Holiays so for it and for other Points also Im giving some Links here.

These links of different sites Provides that Milad is Celebrated throughout the world and I think there are too much Sources in other languages which are Open Proof of Mawlid Celebration by Muslims all over the world where ever they reside.

  • Now it high time to Improve this article on the basis of facts and realities which exist and may easily be found.
  • Neutral links also Clearly says that Only Saudi Arabia is a Country which officially don't celebrate it and their official Movement Salafism see it against Islam.
  • i ask now that will this article show truth of sunnis who Celebrate it world over or Propganda of some Salfis who oppose it .

for now i am just restoring page to its neutral language. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Shabiha (talk • contribs) 19:13, 28 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Shabiha, Jeeny did not appear to be addressing whether or not certain Muslim groups refer to it as a celebration. She seemed to be - and this was what I picked up from her comment - discussing the correct usage of the word in regard to the English language.
As far as what links on Google pages say about what proportion of the Muslim world celebrates Mawlid, that's irrelevant and not a valid form of proof. We don't go by Google hits, we go by actual quantitative proof, which you have not provided up until now. Showing us that governments recognize it doesn't say anything about how many people living under those governments actively participate - this has been explained to you in so many different ways that it's impossible for you not to understand by now, and I believe that WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT is quite relevant here.
The consensus before, and what we have now, is that noone has brought statistical proof that most Muslims celebrate Mawlid. Not you nor anyone else. If you can not, then your edits - which are rather obviously based on POV, as you almost seem offended that some Muslims may not celebrate it - will not be allowed. MezzoMezzo 00:16, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Mawlud, Milad or Mawlid can be the birth of other holy figures, though especially the Prophet Muhammad (Mawlid an-Nabi). Hope that helps a bit more. Or, perhaps it complicates it more? In any case, I think there should be a note of this, since there are many fractions of Islam, and there are other holy Califs that this celebration can refer. --Humain-comme 21:21, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Time to Mutual solution

Perhaps it is very difficult and near to Impossible to Convince You. Now i am only emphasising on celebration in Most of the Muslim Countries accoring to Definition and Holidays as well my Current Proofs. if you are also not Providing proof for NON CELEBRTING people the u also don't have right to add as i said earlier Many.change it to salfis or other thing.

  • i have added few headings regarding its Celerbration in Different countries with referenes to Improve it . There should not be any problem to any one.

Shabiha 18:32, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

The Burden of proof lies on you in this matter, not anyone else, as you are the one making the quantifiable claim. You are saying that Mawlid is not only a holiday, but is also actively celebrated by most Sunni Muslims; yet your proof is only for the fact that it is recognized as a holiday. No material has been provided on actual celebrations. This has been explained multiple times to you by several users, and your refusal to address this is boiling into disruption and edit warring.
As for the so called "references" you provided for celebrations of the Mawlid, they are absolutely not acceptable.
  1. The first five references are news reports, not valid academic sources. This wholly qualifies as original thought per the official Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not policy.
  2. The sixth reference is in French and this is unavailable for readers of English language Wikipedia, flying in the face of the official Wikipedia:Verifiability policy.
  3. To top all of this off, you have not justified these copious insertions in light of the official Wikipedia:Notability policy in addition to Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not. This is not your own personal page to collect blog and news reports, nor is it your own information repository. This is not an indiscriminate collection of information and, first and foremost, it is not a soapbox for you to push your own personal religious beliefs, as it has become very apparent that you are doing just that.
You've demonstrated not only a lack of knowledge of all these policies that go into making such sweeping edits to any article, but almost a disregard for them as you insert your own personal point of view into this article. You need to stop, give it a rest, educate yourself of all the above policies i'm trying to show you, and understand that this is not your personal space to propagate your own ideas with; the official Wikipedia:Ownership of articles policy is relevant here as well.
This has gone on quite enough. Please justify any further edits you make here on the talk page first, via actual understanding and correct usage of site policies and guidelines. MezzoMezzo 01:31, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I hope a fresh set of eyes on this article can help you all to come to an amicable compromise. I would like to, however, make it clear where my bias lies with the topic - I have none. There are arguments on both sides and we therefore need to ensure all relevant issues are mentioned in keeping with WP:NPOV while keeping in mind WP:UNDUE. I will paste below the sections removed by MezzoMezzo and we can discuss the issues on each section one at a time. Please bear in mind that there is no rush - let's take it calmly and slowly. It helps us to focus and consider our arguments. → AA (talk) — 09:53, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have started a new sandbox for a rewrite. Please comment on the structure and whether there is a need to add/remove any headings. → AA (talk) — 17:19, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In Egypt

About 3,000 Moulids are held in Egypt every year. They are 'a mass phenomenon that is increasingly attracting the attention of the Egyptian authorities.

Tanta, in the Nile Delta, is home to Egypt’s biggest moulid attracting up to three million people, some travelling from as far away as Sudan

[32].

The BBC citation here is not referring to the birthday of Muhammad, but of Ahmed el-Bedawi (a 13th century Sufi saint). Since the lead suggests this article is about the observance of the birth of Muhammad, we can have another section to suggest other common celebrations using the term Mawlid. → AA (talk) — 10:18, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I suppose if it's in its own section, making the distinction of other celebrations, then there's no harm done. MezzoMezzo 14:23, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I agree ,it may be in different and common Section. Shabiha 18:42, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
I've made the change in the sandbox and we can include any other similarly notable celebrations that are referred to as Mawlid. → AA (talk) — 20:21, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In India

Special prayers, processions and meetings are Organized on Eid-e-Milad-un-Nabi, Prophet Mohammad's (S.A.W) birthday, which is celebrated with traditional fervour throughout the country. In Lucknow, Ahmedabad, Patna ,Hyderabad, Delhi ,Dehradun,Kolkata and in Calicut large processions are taken out.In Srinagar, Capital of Jammu and Kashmir Milad Processions were Contitnued in 2003 after a gap of 13 years. Milad procession was banned in the Jammu and Kashmir capital since eruption of militancy fearing its misuse by militant outfits.

At Hazratbal shrine, on the outskirts of Srinagar, the holy relic of the Prophet are displayed after the morning prayers. 'Shab-khawani' night-long prayers are held at the Hazrat bal shrine Which is attended by thousands of people. Women are dressed in their traditional lavish feast are cooked and several families distributes food, fruits and clothing to the poor on the occasion.

In Central Mumbai, a huge procession is organised from the Khilafat house to Crawford Market [33][34].

The citation does support the celebration in India, although I think there might by copyvio issues in the paragraph so does need to be reworded. → AA (talk) — 10:22, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Doesn't a news clip from four years ago go against WP:NOT#NEWS ? MezzoMezzo 14:25, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
That policy section applies to standalone articles based on short-lived news events. It is valid to use it as a source in this context. But I do agree, if this is an annual event, there will surely be other news reports which can be cited as additional sources (I've added one from 1998 which shows it's been a long term tradition) although we could do with more recent ones. By reporting where and how it's observed (I think "observed" is more neutral than "celebrated"?), does not infer on whether it's right or wrong in Islam. Currently, we are lacking reporting of scholarly opinions on the event and we could do expansion of the article with section on History (where and how it started), Scholarly opinions (subsections with arguments in support and against the event). → AA (talk) — 14:43, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
That's interesting...do you think we should actually change the direction of the article more toward what you suggested above? MezzoMezzo 18:13, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Nice work in the sandbox, by the way. Shabiha, i'd be interested in hearing what you think of this. MezzoMezzo 18:15, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The current article does not portray the core information necessary to give the reader an understanding of what Mawlid is and why there is controversy between different Islamic groups. Shabiha, please comment on whether you agree to this proposal and if so, dive in to the relevant sections (I've already added some refs to get you started but feel free to include others bearing in mind the criteria for RS). → AA (talk) — 18:28, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • here is another new report about India[35].
Is there anything available published in 2007 or 2006? → AA (talk) — 20:27, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • These will be more helpful[36] and [37]
  • . His birthday is celebrated by followers of Islam, worldwide, across continents and cultures[38].Editorial by a most reputed indian news paper, The Times of India.

Shabiha 20:58, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

  • The section for Origin of Article will be quite helpful but i dont think beside links in against and support of article there is need to add a separate section to pave a way for another mess and vandalism.though external link area also needed editing. Shabiha 18:42, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
We do need to explain what the different views are since without it the article will be incomplete. Since controversy (as is evident by the discussions here and the multitude of links) is notable, we have to give both views and I would say they would deserve equal weight. → AA (talk) — 20:27, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • There are no Primary and Secondry Proofs to support How many Muslims and which group Oppose Mawlid and in any case if it is mentioned it must not have Undue weightage on the Article's character and Purpose as in the Case of external link area supported Unreasonably uptill now by You Shabiha 19:11, 30 October 2007 (UTC) —Preceding Shabiha (talk Shabiha 19:35, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Origin

History of the Mawlid The Mawlid in Makkah According to Muslim Historians-Celebration of the Birthplace of the Prophet

  • Makkah, the Mother of cities, may Allah bless and honour her, is the leader of other Islamic cities in the celebration of Mawlid as in other things. In his book Akhbar Makka, Vol. 2, p. 160, the 3rd-century historian of Makkah, al-Azraqi, mentions as one of the many places in Makkah in which the performance of salah is desirable (mustahabb), the house where the Prophet was born (Mawlid al-Nabi). According to him, the house had previously been turned into a mosque by the mother of the caliphs Musa al-Hadi and Harun ar-Rashid.
  • The Qur'anic scholar al-Naqqash (266-351) mentions the birthplace of the Prophet as a place where du'a by noon on Mondays is answered. He is quoted in al-Fasi's Shifa' al-gharam Vol. 1, p. 199, and others.
  • Earliest Mentions of the Public Mawlid

The oldest source that mentions a public commemoration of the Mawlid is in Ibn Jubayr's (540-614) Rihal ("Travels"), p. 114-115:

"This blessed place [the house of the Prophet] is opened, and all men enter it to derive blessing from it (mutabarrikin bihi), on every Monday of the month of Rabi' al-Awwal; for on that day and in that month was born the Prophet."

  • The 7th-century historians Abul 'Abbas al-'Azafi and his son Abul Qasim al-'Azafi wrote in their unpublished Kitab ad-durr al-munazzam:
  • "Pious pilgrims and prominent travellers testified that, on the day of the mawlid in Makkah, no activities are undertaken, and nothing is sold or bought, except by the people who are busy visiting his noble birthplace, and rush to it. On this day the Ka'ba is opened and visited."
  • Ibn Battuta's Account of the Mawlid

The famous 8th-century historian Ibn Battuta relates in his Rihla, Vol. 1, p. 309 and 347, that on every Friday, after the salah, and on the birthday of the Prophet, the door of Ka`ba is opened by the head of the Banu Shayba, the doorkeepers of the Ka'ba, and that on the Mawlid, the Shafi'i qadi (head judge) of Makkah, Najmuddin Muhammad Ibn al-Imam Muhyiddin al-Tabari, distributes food to the shurafa' (descendants of the Prophet and to all the other people of Makkah.

  • Very Neutral source of Mawlid Origin and Spread into Europe from Makkah [39].Shabiha 21:19, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

In Pakistan

[[:Image:MuhammadinSKY.jpg|right|thumb|During the night of Mawlid the clouds formed the word Muhammad around the moon in the night sky[1]]]

All the government and semi-government buildings are illuminated and the day is dawn with 31 gun salutes and 21 gun salutes in provincial capital on the auspicious occasion of Eid Miladun Nabi (SAW) [40].

A number of big and small rallies and processions are also taken out in Various Cities all Over the Country like Karachi ,Islamabad,Multan , Lahore, Sindh , Balochistan , NWFP and Azad Kashmir to mark the birth anniversary of the beloved Prophet (S.A.W) [41].

Issue same as above. MezzoMezzo 14:25, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • news reports are valid secondry sources according to wiki policies. plz respect.Shabiha 18:42, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

In Bangladesh

Socio-cultural and religious organisations Organizes mass rallies and colourful street marches as part of the day’s observance amid solemnity and festivity while the President, the Prime Minister and the Leader of the Opposition gives messages on the occasion.

Thousands of people on the Streets of Dhaka carries colourful banners and green flags and singing Hamd o Naat in praise of Allah and Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W).Newspapers publishes special articles on the significance of the day while Bangladesh Betar, Bangladesh Television and other private TV channels air's special programmes on the life and ideals of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH).

Major city points and street islands are decorated with national flags and banners [42].

Issue same as above. MezzoMezzo 14:26, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In United Kingdom

Large Processions of Men, women and Children are brang out Specially in Cities of Birmingham and Manchester. each group carries a green or black banner inscribed with golden Islamic calligraphy, usually with the kalimah Allah is one and Muhammad (S.A.w) is His Prophet or other verses from the Qur’an. Milad proessions are part of a joyous and yet unambiguous assertion of cultural diversity, of an entitlement to tolerance and mutual respect in Britain [citation needed].

In France

Grand Mosque of Paris every Year Organises large Meeting on this auspicious Occasion. It is Known as Mawlid al Nabwi here. In other Parts of France People Offers Special Prayers and distributes sweets to mark the Occassion [43].

While a web page from the Paris Mosque - which is a very nice mosque by the way, I prayed there I believe two years ago - proves that specific organization recognized the holiday, that doesn't say anything about the rest of the French Muslim Community. There's also the aformentioned WP:NOT#NEWS issue. MezzoMezzo 14:28, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In Germany

On (9 April 2006 ) a Protestant church in Bochum/Germany celebrated Muhammad’s birthday. The church invited the local Turkish community and the Turkish Consul, Munis Dirik, to attend the service. A Turkish music band played sufi music during the service, in which Protestants and Muslims joined together in honour of Muhammad S.A.W. [44].

In Indonesia

It is a very popular day of celebration in Indonesia.It is also called Maulid Nabi, government offices and numerous shops are closed, and, no newspapers are printed for this day. There are no special prayers or religious services associated with this day, but many Muslims use this day to talk about the Prophet, his life and examples. They use it as a time to express their love and devotion for Prophet Muhammad S.A.W [45].

  • It is now celebrated with varying degrees of enthusiasm throughout the Muslim world and wherever Muslims live .

Links

I've just reduced following links overload. Most of them are not complied with the external link policy.

Supporting Mawlid Celebrations
Against Mawlid Celebrations

So we can expand the article by using these links as inline citation.--NAHID 18:59, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks NAHID. I was going to suggest the same, although I propose we discuss and work on the sandbox until we can arrive at a consensus and take a break from the article for a while. → AA (talk) — 20:18, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Are there any objections on using any of these links as sources (per WP:RS)? Muhammad Taqi Usmani and Yusuf al-Qaradawi are clearly notable but I'm not familiar with most so over to you all. Let's first discuss the acceptability of sources and then we can use these to expand the article. → AA (talk) — 20:32, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  1. ^ Minhaj-ul-Quran International Holds World's Largest Mawlid Conference
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