Talk:Tottenham Hotspur F.C.

Luka Modric

Something about this transfer —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.94.92.190 (talk) 11:39, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

The transfer is mentioned in the 2007-08 Season section. Cordless Larry (talk) 11:42, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Modric passed the medical exam [1] and is now pending work permit which is a petty formality since he played constantly for the Croatian national team through the qualifications. It's a done deal. The only other thing is the number on his shirt, Luka took a picture holding a shirt with #14 on the back[2] but it is questionable wheter he will indeed wear this number.--Footbalista (talk) 15:07, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

That still doesn't mean that the transfer is complete. Take a look at the Spurs squad page and you'll see he's not listed yet. Cordless Larry (talk) 16:36, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Most clubs do not list new players until the next season begins so with or without work permit he wouldn't be listed there anyway. --Footbalista (talk) 02:18, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

I would have to agree with Cordless Larry, and I thought a work permit is only required for non-EU British residents. Govvy (talk) 19:27, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes, which Modrić is as a Croatian national so we should await the work permit decision. Cordless Larry (talk) 09:19, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

I've said my piece on this already over at The Talk page for Luka Modric along the lines of Corldess Larry and Govvy but on the Work Permit question it is needed for anyone with citizenship outside the EU or EEA wanting to work in the UK. For footballers there are detailed rules on eligibility and I recall but cannot quote there have been some players (clubs) who have come unstuck and had permits refused or delayed and so it is certainly not petty or trivial as the British Home Office does not do 'Petty' or 'Trivial' which is a tad disingenuous.Tmol42 (talk) 19:53, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

The condition for non-EU citizens is that the player is a constant and that he played over 75% of the games in the last year, since Luka Modric played most if not all the games for Croatia in the last qualification round it is 101% sure he will be granted work permit, also Tottenham already signed the 6-year deal with him. It's over, now why would we be stuck on these petty things when we all know it's a done deal? --Footbalista (talk) 02:18, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

To save this discussion going on in parallel in two places, can any further comments be made at Talk:Luka Modrić‎ instead of here? Cordless Larry (talk) 07:50, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

When I spoke to my Uncle this weekend, according to him Luka Modrić has a training permit and has only half his paperwork done because of the international call up, stuff like insurance and filling papers to be able to play in the premiership still haven't been done yet. Govvy (talk) 20:47, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Manager Stats for Season / Season accounts

A couple of proposals for the layout of the article and its associated sub pages on which I am inviting comment.

At the end of this season ( after the Liverpool match) I am proposing that the manager stats for the 2007/08 season are moved to Tottenham Hotspur F.C. season 2007-08 which this year has been newly developed into a excellent source of valuable and up to date stats and info on the season thanks in particular to work by Prem4eva. Going forward for 08/09 season onwards the manager stats would then be added and updated on Tottenham Hotspur F.C. season 2008-09 which is in preparation already and so on with successor season pages. This provides a more appropriate home for the stats and consistency in how information is ordered.

The above mentioned 07/08 Season page also includes a properly referenced and appropriately weighted account of the notable events over the year which I expect will be the case for 2008/09 and so on. The account of recent seasons on the main page has become increasingly unwieldy. At times it has become a battle ground for fly-by edits from IP address editors who have seen it as a blog site as well as the inevitable puerile edits by vandals. As the respective season pages is where this information could be better supervised it would seem appropriate to reserve the Main Page for the major/ notable events:- Arrivals / departures, achievements in Cups and League etc. Looking at other Prem sides the better articles IMHO are the ones which structure events around the era of a particular manager ( not something we could emanate at the moment, I know!) or other themes. If there is some support for this from regular editors then I thought the season break would allow for this to be worked on when the amount of other changes will be minimal. Thoughts PleaseTmol42 (talk) 13:50, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree, the stats are only for the 2007/8 season, and the season page is for the 2007/8 season, so it definitely should be on the season page from what I see 82.45.216.154 (talk) 17:19, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

As per above manager stats for the 2007 - 08 season have been transferred to Tottenham Hotspur F.C. season 2007-08 Tmol42 (talk) 16:32, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

2006-07 Season content.

Maybe we need an article for that and we could expand on it. As for this season, the content needs to be cut down and it should stick to the key points. It looks a bit long winded atm. Govvy (talk) 16:59, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes, we could do with merging what's here for this season into Tottenham Hotspur F.C. season 2007-08, and just having a brief summary here. The 2006-07 info could then move to Tottenham Hotspur F.C. season 2006-07. Cordless Larry (talk) 20:29, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

I made the Tottenham Hotspur F.C. season 2006-07 page so the named seasons on spurs' page all have their own seasons now, so it can be cleaned up a bit easier now, if need be. Prem4eva (talk) 22:20, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Ribbons on the cup 1901 myth

It is stated on the article that Tottenham were the first side to tie ribbons on the F A cup in 1901 but this is simply not the case. There is a very famous team photograph of Nott's County's 1894 cup winners posing with the cup in 1894, complete with black and white ribbons tied on. This is the first occasion that the cup was so decorated, although there is no record of anyone following County's example before Spurs. The pic is in this link http://www.nottscountyfc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/HistoryDetail/0,,10426~1028230,00.html I am therefore editing the 1901 claim. Captainbeecher (talk) 19:13, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

It has nothing to do with other clubs, it's about Tottenham dignitaries and Spurs tradition. Govvy (talk) 19:40, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

The fact remains that this article claims the tradition of ribbons on the cup was started by Tottenham when the evidence provided proves that this is not the case. Captainbeecher (talk) 20:32, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

I look at that image of Notts County with the cup, I don't see any ribbons on it, I only see a scarf. Govvy (talk) 20:42, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

I hate to burst the Spurs bubble on this one Govvy but he's right. County were the first to put ribbons on the cup and those are ribbons in the photo. Aston Villa also had the cup presentd to them with ribbons in 1897, though these were later removed for the official photograph. These ribbons held duel purpose when Villa dispalyed the trophy at the town hall, the ribbons hid a chain that held the cup in place to avoid the repeat of its theft two years previously. I've also heard that Forest may have had ribbons on the cup the following year but can find no evidence of this. Even so, the County photo is famous, by the way. the concept of the football scarfe in club colours came about after World war one.Norniron (talk) 20:15, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Govvy, if you can't see the knots tying the ribbons to the handles of the cup, then you must be blind. Here we have proof that Tottenham Hotspur was not the first club to be presented with a cup with ribbons on. – PeeJay 20:31, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Regardless of the picture, the statement in the article is unsourced. It would be a good idea to find a reliable reference, to avoid the sentence being tagged with or removed. Beve (talk) 13:05, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

References

Has the article really been written using all 30 of the books listed in the References section? (Strange that there is not a single in-line citation attributed to any of them). Or has someone just mindlessly added loads of different Spurs books to the list? --Jameboy (talk) 12:22, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

I am not sure about that, I remember that list of books being fairly old in wiki terms, the list is good as further reading, ect. But it really should be used in citation with the article. I got one of the books around somewhere, but I've been lazy on this front. Govvy (talk) 16:23, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Cian Hughton - AfD

Have added Cian Hughton on the AfD list, he hasn't played a pro game. We should not create articles for Spurs youth members until they have played at least one professional game or at least has had nationwide media coverage. Govvy (talk) 15:28, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Player of the Year

Someone recently added a list of Players of the Year. It was not formatted well so looked a mess and has now hung around for a few days. There were two options delete or clean up. I was inclined to opt for the former but in the spirit of collaboration choose the latter as it at least will allow others to decide if it is notable and worthy of inclusion and if so improve it or alternatively do we have too many lists of players on this page and it needs to be canned? The section also needs a reference which I could not find on the THFC page so can someone provide a citation if it exists.Tmol42 (talk) 23:21, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Noted Former Players

Follow on from the last posting. The Notable Former Players section in my view lacks consistency and is in danger of getting longer and longer as another inevitable summer clear out occurs in the next few weeks. There are amongst the clearly notable players a significant number whose claim to fame is questionable / marginal having made no lasting and memorable contribution to the club. I'll name no names but should we reduce this down to be in keeping with the Club template which offers the following guideline "Noted players of the club, who have had a major impact on the club's history. The section should use external sources for the list, not the personal opinions of editors" To avoid an edit war we could copy the list here and have an ordered debate, try and agree criteria and get some consensus as to a list.Tmol42 (talk) 23:21, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

I agree. Players such as Reto Ziegler didn't make a notable enough contribution to the club to be in this list. It might be difficult to copy the list here and comment on it though, since it's so long. Cordless Larry (talk) 14:37, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Yeah I agree, there are a lot of players on there that weren't too involved and there are some notable players that aren't on there, for example a few days ago someone removed Neil Sullivan but kept players like helder postiga, neil sullivan was the first choice keeper for three years and postiga was a bit part striker for one, strange inconsistency there, so it definitely needs a major overhaul —Preceding unsigned comment added by Prem4eva (talk • contribs) 16:01, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Maybe we could suggests players to remove from the list here, and any that should be added? When we reach consensus, we can then make the required changes to the list itself. Cordless Larry (talk) 16:15, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

to be fair, before the 2000's the list seems pretty solid, all the players have high appearances or a big contribution but after 2000 it gets pretty ambigious, after a quick look and think: Out:- Øyvind Leonhardsen, Simon Davies, Christian Ziege, helder postiga, reto zeigler, pedro mendes, mido. In: Gary Stevens, Mark Falco, Justin Edinburgh, Ruel Fox, Ramon Vega, Neil Suillivan, of course there could be more but thats just a quick list to get us started Prem4eva (talk) 17:26, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

If you want a quick look up of appearances / international performances have a look at List of Tottenham Hotspur F.C. players . I must of admit i've committed the same sin myself there in including a few near do wells who spent a season or two at the club but also played international football. Perhaps indicative of a club scrambling to get into the top four by buying big names who can't settle or deliver from one manager to the next. Anyhow it might be of use and if you think the criteria here need to be tightened up say so I'm not proud!Tmol42 (talk) 2<link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Lupin/navpop.css&action=raw&ctype=text/css&dontcountme=s">2:20, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Tmol42's comment is useful because it brings up the issue of the distinction between a notable player and a player who made a notable contribution at Spurs. Edgar Davids is clearly in the former category, but perhaps not the latter, for example. Are we aiming for a list of all Spurs players who have had notable careers, or players notable for their Spurs careers? Cordless Larry (talk) 22:29, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Agree with all but one of the suggestions from Prem4eva query Simon Davies who made 140+ apps plus played for Wales 24 times and did cut a dash down the wing and got the crowd going in his early days at least. I would relegate Gheorghe Popescu on appearances (28) ditto John Scales (33) more notable at Wimbledon and what about Jamie Rednapp only 44app who made his name at Liverpool and with his off the pitch activity / celebrity life/wife and having a larger than life Dad but wasn't he Captain for a while (my gray cells are not working)! But then that's all subjective so would we base it on appearances plus some one off reasons ( which the MoS would say we should cite!). There are a few more pre 1990 players who in their time made a name at Spurs and banged in a large number of steady but not spectacular appearances to boot e.g....Steve Sedgley, Pat Van Den Hauwe, Paul Walsh, There are a few heroes from the 1950s backwards who put in 150-200+ appearances over several years and who are missing but I guess were before our collective times but clearly were major players for the club. Tmol42 (talk) 23:32, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I see what you're saying about simon davies, (and i think i remember redknapp as captain for a while, even in a nlb if i remember right) it is a very, very hard section to fill out, thinking about it now, the only way to please everyone without a world war is to take out the stonewall non-notable career-wise and non-notable app-wise, like your ziegler's and mido's...With players like Davids, i think they are notable because they are su<link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Lupin/navpop.css&action=raw&ctype=text/css&dontcountme=s">ch renown footballers, for example, like when big players are listed as notable on the pages of the smaller clubs or academies, the player didn't really affect them during his time, but because he affected world football in a big way later on and for a time was a X club player, he is a notable player in the history of football and was once at X club so he can be notable for them (that seemed simpler when i thought about it, hopefully you get what i'm saying)...for the adding of new players, people can/will always challenge, but basic requirements should be notable career/or modest career but with tottenham achievement (e.g. scoring winning goal in major competition) or big number of appearances, but as we all know, it is a very hard section. Prem4eva (talk) 01:02, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Jamie Redknapp was actually the designated club captain for a while, although he didn't play much during that time as he was injured. Cordless Larry (talk) 08:49, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

We basicly need to move it to a list page like List of Manchester United F.C. players and specify what constitutes a player of note(worth). So they have to of played over so many games, been a club captain. Helped guide us to a championship or silverwear, ect. Govvy (talk) 11:54, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Ooops, I just noticed we got this, List of Tottenham Hotspur F.C. players which could do with improvement. Btw, do we need the recent players on it? P.S If we have transfered all of the former players on note to the list, can we get rid of it from the main article? Govvy (talk) 12:00, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

I would support this approach. The current criteria on List of Tottenham Hotspur F.C. players was an attempt to incorporate those players who achieved notoriety whilst at the club but not just on their appearances for the club being 100+ which excluded some other 'notable' players who appeared for their national team whilst on the club's books. The unintended consequence of this was that some players who appeared only a few times for the club and a few times for their country also crept in e.g. Grzegorz Rasiak, Mbulelo Mabizela and more extreme still Jonathan Blondel. it also had the effect of 'qualifying' current players. I was doing this while the debate was going on about FA status for the Arsenal but if we are not to fussed about this then how about this as a 'starter for ten'. Apply some minimum club appearance criteria which would de-qualify any player who may be 'notable' for international appearances, plus apply it to former players only. What do you thinkTmol42 (talk) 18:04, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Addition of players to squad section

A number of IP and newly registered editors are repeatedly adding players to the current squad section before their transfers to Spurs are complete. Is it worth asking for the article to be protected, because this is getting a bit ridiculous? Cordless Larry (talk) 14:00, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

I feel if we can deal with the edits by reverting them okay, then it's not needed, but it is depending how much bad editing is being done. Govvy (talk) 21:08, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

If you take a look at the page history, it's happening a lot. Cordless Larry (talk) 21:12, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Agree its getting awfully tedious and depending on when we think they will all be cleared...03 Jul? ... I think we could do with some strategy as I am loosing patience and am likely to be less polite than I should be. Sorry I'm a bit naive on this but does a semi-protect do anything to stop unregistered IPs? Tmol42 (talk) 22:10, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Semi-protect would stop editing by unregistered and new editors. I'm going to propose that the article be semi-protected. Cordless Larry (talk) 22:11, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

I have reverted an edit by User:Kingosso who I advised previously on 8th june that their edits against consensus contravened the 3RR. I have posted a further note on thier talk page this morning that repeated edits will be reported and am reporting here to advise other editors as per guidance on Wikipedia:Three-revert rule page Tmol42 (talk) 10:23, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Just so we all know --> [3], thats one saga over, Prem4eva (talk) 14:31, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

I've just had the semi-protection reinstated given the resumption of Modrić-related and other vandalism by IPs. Cordless Larry (talk) 10:11, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Squad numbers are updated, taken not from the official squad page, but from the squad list for personalizing your kit in the official club shop. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Phillystile (talk • contribs) 21:28, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Tottenham Hotspur F.C. season 2007-08 submitted for Peer Review for GA-class.

Well I think I have done it right, submitted the article for Peer Review. Govvy (talk) 21:01, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Gomes

I'm a bit confused about the transfer now, because although it hasn't been announced that its done and dusted work permit-wise etc, here he is training with the squad in Spain / 2nd and 3rd pics, I didn't think you could train with another club until you're officially signed, So I'm guessing it's just they haven't re-announced it, What do you think, add him to squad? Prem4eva (talk) 00:48, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

According to The Times today the Home Office has granted special dispensation for him to get a Work Permit. [4]. Tmol42 (talk) 17:12, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Honours.

I am not sure I like the new style on the list of honours secton, it's too heavy... What do the rest of you think? Govvy (talk) 19:29, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I was going to ask first before I changed it but I didn't know if I would get too much feedback, I saw it on Sunderland's page and thought it look at bit more presentable, but if people don't like it, then fair enough Prem4eva (talk) 20:55, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

The way I see the page and all pages on Wiki is that they are all text based on white background, once you have that much colour in that tabula format it doesn't suit the page so well in my opinion. I preferred the older format. Govvy (talk) 21:23, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

To-do list

For those of you feel we need to add certain elements to the Spurs articles or new ones, please don't hesitated to list it in the to-do list so we can all chip in where we can. Govvy (talk) 21:57, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Kit Numbers

So this kit number issue has dragged on for a while, higher up on this talk page User:Phillystile talks about the squad list in the shop, and on the official website of the store, there is this: here and it says that Bentley - 5, Modric - 14, Giovani - 17 and also on the goalkeeper kit (but I couldn't get a pic) Gomes - 1, the numbers are on the official site and since they are available for purchase, I think it makes it pretty certain these are the numbers and just someone on the Tottenhamhotspur.com profile page cant be asked to change the tbc, so after a few weeks of constant number changes, I think we have the final numbers, what do you think? Prem4eva (talk) 20:09, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Yes, Gomes (1), Hutton (2), Bale (3), Bentley (5), Huddlestone (6), Lennon (7), Bent (10), Modric (14), Gunter (16), Giovani (17), are all listed on the official Spurs website. Just not on the squad page, but in the club shop. Official as far as I'm concerned, no? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Phillystile (talk • contribs) 01:41, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Kind of annoying, but o well, I'd wish they would keep the Tottenhamhotspur.com upto date, but they don't seem to be doing that. Govvy (talk) 20:24, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

If you think the THFC site is a bit out of order take a look at This substandard piece of work from the BBC Sport website! Clearly they are a bit confused tooTmol42 (talk) 21:45, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

I personally think we should not edit them until the first game of the season has been played, then who ever goes to the game, gets the programme guide, can then put in all the numbers. Govvy (talk) 17:01, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Um... the numbers have been announced here. Mattythewhite (talk) 17:03, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Nice timing. Cordless Larry (talk) 17:56, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Still, not the full list... :/ Govvy (talk) 20:55, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Superleague Formula template.

Do we really need that at the bottom of the article? Govvy (talk) 18:25, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

A category is fair enough, but the template seems a bit over the top, especially since it's the only one at the bottom of the article about a football club and it's not even really about football. Perhaps we should discuss it at Template talk:Superleague Formula though, because it's not just this article that it appears on. Cordless Larry (talk) 18:43, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

I've started a discussion at Template talk:Superleague Formula and I'll alert editors of the other clubs' articles. Cordless Larry (talk) 21:20, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Personally, I think that there should be a link to the football clubs on the Superleague Formula page only. There is no need to include the templates on the Main club pages. Yatesy1988 (talk) 22:07, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Spurs youngest-ever player

Hi. On the Ally Dick page, a recent edit claims Alistair as the youngest-ever Spurs player at 16 years&301 days. They have also added information from his Ajax days. Can anyone verify this information? (Northmetpit (talk) 13:37, 15 September 2008 (UTC)).