Talk:Periyar/Archive 1

Was he a Kannada or Telugu?

Periyar E. V. Ramasamy's community surname was Naicker.It is often noticed by several magazines that his mother tongue was Kannada, but Naicker surname is used only by Telugus and some Tamils. But during Vijaynagara Empire's rule in Tamil Nadu many Telugu speaking people cane into Tamil Nadu (some a century before that), of which some migrated from the present day Karnataka region. Even today the East Karnataka districts are filled with large number of Telugu speaking population who have been living there for centuries.

But the question is Periyar's mother tongue, which I think is often carried over from one mis-quoted source to another. Some one can seriously come out with facts weather he was a Telugu or Kannada, but again not from misquoted sources (including India Today Magazine).Is there an Kannadiga who uses Naicker surname?

Categorization

Periyar is not a rasist, he was condemed & against brahminism which divides society based on birth and autrocities of brahminismfor several centuries. So he is just Anti brahmin, in his entire life he propagated humanism, so defenitely he cannot in Racist and Anti-Hinduism. Also Its not required to mention both parent and child categories for one article, that is violation of Wikipedia Categorization. --Rajan 17:41, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Also, he never believed any religion or caste, so we cannot even put him under Buddhists category.--Rajan 17:41, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Caste of Periyar

Is Periyar a Kannada Naidu or Telugu Balija Naidu?

it is said that he is a telugu kamma naidu —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.92.187.218 (talk) 05:08, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Visit to Kasi

The article on the visit to Kashi looked too "schoolish". Hence I have abridged the section. Moreover anyone who wants to add to it cite proper evidence or accounts before pasting III standard school texts into it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ramananrv123 (talk • contribs)

Sorry, text from 3rd standard school books will be deleted. This is not a place for texts without proper source reference nor is this a place for voicing ones opinions.

Genetic and anthropological assessments

Indian populations show a high degree of genetic similarity that stems from a population that formed on the island roughly 12,000 years ago and has been little changed through invasions by Indo-Aryans and other groups. A 2003 Stanford study analyzing the origins of various South Asian populations (including 40 Sinhalese and over 90 Tamils from Sri Lanka) found that most of the population of the island and India in general:

Taken together, these results show that Indian tribal and caste populations derive largely from the same genetic heritage of Pleistocene southern and western Asians and have received limited gene flow from external regions since the Holocene. [1]

These findings are corroborated by numerous other studies including a 2004 Biomedical Central Study:

Gene flow from West Eurasia-Broadly, the average proportion of mtDNAs from West Eurasia among Indian caste populations is 17% (Table 2). In the western States of India and in Pakistan their share is greater, reaching over 30% in Kashmir and Gujarat, nearly 40% in Indian Punjab, and peaking, expectedly, at approximately 50% in Pakistan (Table 11, see Additional file 6, Figure 11, panel A). These frequencies demonstrate a general decline (SAA p < 0.05 Figure 4) towards the south (23%, 11% and 15% in Maharashtra, Kerala and Sri Lanka, respectively) and even more so towards the east of India (13% in Uttar Pradesh and around 7% in West Bengal and Bangladesh). [2]

Modern Pakistani, Indian, and Sinhalese donors, examined for combinations of mini- and microsatellite loci, along with a number of Y chromosome and mtDNA markers (24), show varying degrees of diversity, which is expected from their geographic position and ability to receive waves of migrants pulsing from Africa and West Asia at different times. DYS287 or Y chromosome Alu insertion polymorphism also clearly demonstrate the gradual decline in insert-positive Y chromosomes from Africa to East Asia, reaching a transition point from polymorphic levels (1 to 5%) to private polymorphism in Pakistan. [3]

regarding criticism

he is considered to be a rationalist,however other than personal vendetta,i dont think he ever had a scientific temper.he says aryans were invaders who subdued dravidians and that he supports dravidians.well the photo clearly suggests he was fair,which means he was from the aryan race,so he is no authority over the dravidian people.second,people who follow his ideology namely mr karunanidhi, mr maran(present telecom minister)are fair,which implies they were aryans. the tamilians dont have understanding of who are aryans and who are dravidians. fair people who are descendants of indo european people are aryans . dark people who are descendants of indo african people are dravidians. but according to tamilians,dark people and that too living only in tamil nadu,not even south india are dravidians,then what about the tribals of north india?they too are dravidians. third,tamilians say all brahmins are aryans.well in chennai laone i have seen a sizeable number of dark skinned brahmins,from both iyer and iyengar community.--Jayanthv86 04:55, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Mr.Jayanth, I think you should study some bio-genetic science regarding the skin colors, initially every human race was black and they latter adapted to the colour as per the working habits and weather conditions. People will classify the race as per the colour of hair, nose size, eye features etc. U said that he dont have any scientic temper, I dont know what made you to trap him into the scientic jargons but ironically he is the first leader to suggest the ways to control birth and also said that 'abortion' practice will come in near future (which is unthinkable at that time). What I can see you from your whole document is U have some colour maina. I suggest U to read some of his articles and then come for the discussion. --Kalaa

this discussion is being posted again by me for the sake of vadakkan who seems to revert all edits:

well i dont think u can classify him as a freedom fighter.he worked towards the formation of a dravidian country,totally against the country.i also think he was a worthless person.if he was a aethist,then why does he refer to himself as buddhist (Buddha was an Aryan prince).i think he was a big time loser who has made no mark even among the dalits.the dalits in tamil nadu also criticise him for his lack of work and empty talk.he spoke more so against brahmins and not against the thevars,who were the actual oppressionists along with the Britishers. i will classify him as anti Hindu and not a modern thinker.if he was against god,then why did he stop with the burning of bhagawad gita,he should have dont the same with bible aand quran.he didnt because he was a selfish person,and he did all that for the sake of his party publicity.--Jayanthv86 18:25, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

I dont think that Periyar should be under the category of Indian freedom fighters. He has not done any notable contribution to Indian Independence - 202.54.150.250 15:01, 3 Apr 2005

This is obvious troll. --Rrjanbiah 17:38, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I wouldn't categorize him as freedom fighter either. He was a social reformer. The political platform he belonged to, the Justice Party, wanted the British to stay in India till the social inequalities were "fixed."--Kingsleyj 02:46, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

This is yet another troll. --Rrjanbiah 19:09, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

Just saying someone is a troll does not invalidate their point. Do you have sources for Periyar's freedom fighting activities? I'm willing to be convinced.--Kingsleyj 19:41, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

You may be right. But, it's well known fact that he did destroy palm trees and followed Gandhi (once). Unlike other upper caste freedom fighters, he did work for the freedom from internal and external forces; without him at least half of the people will be still a chain gang. Anyway, I'd like to know, your definition of freedom fighter. --Rrjanbiah 04:18, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

Do not the scholars across the spectrum in Indology concur that India was first inhabited by Dravidians? Does anybody here differ on this? Who in India is "Fair"? Is the difference of skin color not striking between a Teutonic Aryan and and Indian? There are few "Fair" people in India, plausibly those brahmins who managed not to get 'contaminated' with the native Dravidians. Rest all, be it North India or South India, are Dravidians with the southerners being 'purer' than the others. It is quite understandable when the amount of murder and rape committed by the invading aryan tribes in the north, (as is repeatedly mentioned in the Vedas, the 'aryans' destroying thousands of 'puras' of 'dasyus' or Dravidians)is taken into account. The lingustic demography of the subcontinent offers irrefutable evidence of this. The Brahui Dravidians (in the remote places of Baluchistan), The Kurux and Malto (Dravidian languages) speakers in Nepal, West Bengal and Bangladesh, the innumerable Dravidian tongued tribes in Chattisgarh, Madhya Pradesh, Orissa, are all strong pointers to the fact that Dravidians are the native Indians and the 'Aryans' deracinated them progressively to the south. I suppose more elaboration on this is not appropriate in this link. As for Periyar's atheism, can anyone be criticized for being an atheist? If he is called as being 'Rationalist', then are the criticizers ready to be classed as 'Irrationalists'? Periyar had devoted all his life in pursuit of truth. If today we, as Indians, know our Dravidian origins and dispelled the myth that India is 'Aryan', as has been ceaselessly portrayed by the Brahmins in the North, and those Northern Dravidians who fancy themselves to be 'Aryans' just because they speak an Aryan language, it is, with little qualification, due to the monumental work of Periyar. - Stalin.

Skin color is dependent on the pigment melanin. To produce vitamin D the skin needs to allow sunlight. In colder countries in the higher latitudes the skin adapts to become more transparent to allow more light and produce vitamin D. In lower latitudes the skin has to block excessive sunlight to protect itself from skin cancer etc . That is the only reason for skin color variations. The genetic factor comes in the short term. Brahmins in South like others who have been in Tamil Lands are darker due to their existence in the south for thousands of years. The fairer Brahmins might have migrated more recently and mixed with other Brahmins. The truth is that a lot of Tamil Brahmins are darker than other non Brahmins in South and North India.

Cleanup ?

This article seems riddled with POV and bad grammar.

"He is very well known for his quotation against religion: He who created god was a fool; he who spreads his name is a scoundrel and he who worships him is a barbarian."

Shouldn't this be in WikiQuotes instead? It is enough to say that he advocated atheism and social reform.

Why? --Rrjanbiah 19:09, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

I recant. Have it your way :) --Kingsleyj 19:41, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

"He is the founding father of Dravidian Nationalism which is based on Dravidian race and language. He demanded vivisection of India and creation of a separate Dravidian nation. Today, his ideology dominates the socio-political landscape of Tamil Nadu. All major political parties in the state are based on his ideology."

Can you cite sources for this? I've read 2 collections of his speeches and I don't remember reading anything about Dravidian statehood. Also his ideology does *not* dominate current Tamil politics, though the dominant forces do claim his heritage. I have changed the assertion about the state parties to a claim.

--Kingsleyj 03:07, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

POV all over, it appears

Sorry chaps, but this article just does not appear to pass muster as far as Wiki standards go. Its completely POV one way or the other - rationalist, sympathetic to Periyar or stridently religious. And its terribly written. Too many grammatical errors. I've had to put up the Disputed sign. --Tigger69 1 September 2005

Err

The content is full of error now and POV.

• It wasn't the asumption about caste; but was about the practice of untouchability.
• Periyar was freedom fighter. But, once the "power" has transformed to Brahmins, he asked to mourn on the independence day. He said, british rule is better than brahminical dominance. But, the article is cripppled a lot.
• Also, hard to refer Periyar as Budhist, as he was *damn* against to god. The idea behind his support towards Budhism is related to Ambedkar and against to the Ganesha.
• The page has to be moved to "Periyar" as he is popularly known by that name (Refer Eminem).
• Read the Tamil version and http://www.tamilnation.org/hundredtamils/periyar.htm before anyone makes the so called grammatical cleanup.

--Rrjanbiah 17:24, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

FWIW, it is extremely sad that the leader who played a full and high role in liberating non-brahmins is under attack here. While every other (upper caste) leaders are fighting to get back the "power", only the Periyar thought about liberating *everyone*. Not sure, if anyone attacks Martin Luther or any such leaders in this way. --Rrjanbiah 17:35, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

Destroying Idols

It is a well known fact that EVR destroyed Vinayaka idols and smashed Rama's photos. Why is this not being mentioned in the article. And he did not dare to criticise Christian idol worship and islamists.

Feel free to add details you think are missing, but do keep in mind the need to maintain a Neutral Point of View. Please be careful not to just remove information as you did in your last edits. -- Arvind 22:04, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

well i dont think u can classify him as a freedom fighter.he worked towards the formation of a dravidian country,totally against the country.i also think he was a worthless person.if he was a aethist,then why does he refer to himself as buddhist.i think he was a big time loser who has made no mark even among the dalits.the dalits in tamil nadu also criticise him for his lack of work and empty talk.he spoke more so against brahmins and not against the thevars,who were the actual oppressionists along with the brititsh. i will classify him as anti hindu and not a modern thinker.if he was against god,then why did he stop with the burning of bahgwad gita,he should have dont the same with bible aand quran.he didnt because he was a selfish person,and he did all that for the sake of his party publicity.--Jayanthv86 18:25, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

I have reverted your deletion of the "Atheist" category. The issue of whether or not he was a freedom fighter is more complex. He was a member of the Congress from 1919 to 1925, giving up his position as chariman of the municipal council at Erode in the process. He courted arrest and participated in the Vaikom satyagraha - which makes him a freedom fighter under the GoI's definition. But I agree that it is a little odd to call him an "Indian" freedom fighter, given that he changed his views as radically as he did.

As regards your other points, the reasons he parted ways with the Congress are complex (he cited its domination by the upper castes), as are the motives behind his actions once he joined the Justice Party. On Wikipedia, we need to take a nuanced, scholarly approach towards the man and his works, whatever our personal views may be. For example, he addresses the question of why he did not condemn Islam and Christianity in his works. He also explains why he demanded independence for Tamil Nadu. An article on Wikipedia should report these views, and report scholarly criticisms of them. And that is all - whatever our personal views may be, this is not the place for them. -- Arvind 22:19, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Atheism

Hello Jayant. When editing controversial topics, please cite your sources. You have asserted that Periyar was not an atheist - could you please cite a verifiable source to back it up? Remember that many Buddhists are atheists, as Wikipedia's own article on atheism tells you! Given Periyar's famous "There is no God" quote, I find it hard to see how you could assert that he actually was not an atheist. As such, there is no basis for deleting his categorisation under "Atheist". I would also suggest you try to maintain a civil tone while entering into discussions with other users. Saying that someone "seems to revert all edits" is not a very good way to begin a discussion. -- Arvind 11:15, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

This article is very incomplete

This article is highly incomplete... It does not give his political history. His association with Ghandhi, the Justice Party or how his followers formed the DMK. His political influence in the Madras state is also not mentioned. Here a link to get started on his public life: [4] --hydkat 20:33, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

tamil alphabet section irrelevant

please list only the changes proposed/implemented by periyar and avoid giving personal criticisms. i am deleting most of the paragraph as it is irrelevant to periyar and criticizes the tamil alphabet instead. --ti 22:13, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Recent edits by anon

Several recent edits might violate WP:NPOV. Please be certain to present legitimate criticism of the article's subject with proper sources and without unbalancing it. Also, convention suggests that the most common name be used as far as possible in the text of the article. Hornplease 06:59, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Please we need to use one name Periyar or EVR

Some recent edits have changed Periyar to EVR.We need to use only 1 name.Hence changing it to Periyar as more of the articles and other articles mention him as thus.Harlowraman

Hello, it is ridiculous to refer to a person always by the title he recieved from his admirers. It is pathetic to see he was called 'Periyar' from his birth. Why don't you call a person by his name, I mean 'his' name as found in records. His name is E.V.Ramasami Naicker, that was he was called in official records, that is how he referred to himself, that is how even a biographer Anita Diehl calls him. He was called 'Periyar' the first time in the late 1930s and only from 1950s that title became more widespread. So, it is suggested that wherever his name occurs , including the title, be changed from Periyar. Of course, it can also be mentioned that he got the name Periyar from his admirers. Very first point in biographical notes - refer to a person by his name , as found in the official records.

Periyar or EVR Hitler in the wikipedia page is called Hitler not Fuhrer . So should EVR be called EVR not periyar. Periyar is just a title his cronies called him. It is not an official name. He did not have a passport that referred to him as Periyar.

Title to be changed to E.V.Ramasamy Naicker

That is a correct decision since that is how he called himself and his freinds called him. Do it quickly, please.

Ref Periyar

This page is clearly getting vandalised.

1:Only 1 name needs to be used either Periyar or EVR not 2 creates confusion to readers particularly foriegners.Periyar is how he is known.He is refered as Periyar in Tamil Nadu Government. University is called Periyar Universityn named after him

2: Periyar being likened to Hitler is potentially libellous as Hitler was responsible for millions of deaths whereas Periyar was not guilty of even one.Further no evidence or citation is given this comment.Periyar turned the offer to become the head of the Madras Presidency in 1939 after the Congress quit but he turned it down now to compare Hitler is wrong.

3:Brahmins:comments like The population of Brahmins in Tamil Nadu, which was about 10% in the 1920s, is today less than 3% as a result of persecution by EVR and his followers are strange as not even a Single Brahmin has been killed in the entire Dravidan movement. Further Rajaji,Jayalaitha and Janaki who were Chief Minsiters were Brahmins and ruled Tamil Nadu longer than any other single community and these statements are not backed by citations or evidence which are required.Jayalalitha is the head of a Dravidan Party

4: And the wording should be encyclopedic none emotional and contraversial lines like Within a span of 20 years, the Brahmins of Tamil Nadu, who had been living there for more than 2000 years, were turned into alien immigrants by the DK's propaganda. The speeches called for the elimination of Brahmins from Tamil Nadu, and the enslavement of Brahmin women. The speeches harkened back to an ancient Tamil glory, similar to Hitler's revival of ancient Germanic culture are not abcked by citations or Evidence

5:Further some blanked His Childhood and Education

Harlowraman.

If Periyar had his way in creating a Tamil Nation, Brahmins would have been killed. Also there has been a significant migration of Brahmins from Tamil Nadu to other states and Countries. His words characterize him and they are racist and violent enough to compare him with Hitler.

To the lady or Gentleman who put the unsigned comment. I respect your right to your views.However facts are different.Periyar even if go to 1919 when the Justice Partywas started not a single brahmin has been killed while we had scores of Dalits and others have been killed in riots over the years.Look if you say the Kashmiri Pandits fled Kashmir due to persecution .Anyone would agree 100%.However Tamil Brahmins migration to the USA,Gulf,Bangalore,mumbai it was for Better opportunties.They did not go as refugees it was each family individual decision This is true for millions of others from other parts of the country who migrate this includes in larger numbers like gujaratis etc.Periyar turned the offer to became the Prime minsiter of the Madras Presidency twice in 1939 and 1940.He was not after power and was for social reform.This is an encyclopedia and not a debating forum where points like what would happened if an independent state was created to be debated .However I agree with another user who put Periyar has been accused of abusing Brahmins with vulgar language and running a hate campaign against them in Criticism while removing non encyclopedic and emotional and contraversial linesFurther Jayaliatha a brahmin was the chief minister,many brahmin Actors,businessman all come from Chennai and others parts of tamil Nadu the list is endless.Harlowraman 06:10, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

Reverted the Mass deletion done by 192.223.243.6

I have Reverted the Mass deletion done by 192.223.243.6.Harlowraman (talk)

Libellous comments without evidence removed

comments about Periyar without proof removed.another user asked for proof no proof given hence removed.Please provide Proof and add

In the 1930s, EVR visited Germany. It is not clear what he learnt from Hitler's Germany, but it is certainly true that the Dravidar Kazhagam was patterned after the Nazi Party - its black-shirted storm troopers were prone to anti-Brahmin violence.[citation needed] Its conferences prominently displayed lewd caricatures of Brahmins - somewhat patterned after Julius Streicher's Der Sturmer.[citation needed] The speeches called for the elimination of Brahmins from Tamil Nadu, and the enslavement of Brahmin women. The speeches harkened back to an ancient Tamil glory, similar to Hitler's revival of ancient Germanic culture.[citation needed] The DK positioned Brahmins as the antithesis of Tamils and Brahmins as the enemies of the Tamil language (ignoring the significant contribution by Brahmins to Tamil literature from time immemorial.) Within a span of 20 years, the Brahmins of Tamil Nadu, who had been living there for more than 2000 years, were turned into alien immigrants by the DK's propaganda.[citation needed]

His speeches used foul language to attack Brahmins, a practice that is followed even today by his followers. He never made any attempt to distinguish between good or bad Brahmins. For him, all Brahmins were evil, and were to be exterminated. By changing the usage of the word 'Brahminism' (which meant rituals and religion of the Brahmins) to mean 'casteism', he absolved all other upper castes of any responsibility of casteism, and only put the blame on Brahmins.[citation needed] His followers plastered the state with anti-Brahmin messages - for example: "If you see a snake and a Brahmin, leave the snake alone and kill the Brahmin." "We will break the temple and set fire to the agraharam (Brahmin settlement)" "We will turn Brahmin women into public property".[citation needed] Many of these slogans can be seen in walls in Tamil Nadu even today. The population of Brahmins in Tamil Nadu, which was about 10% in the 1920s, is today less than 3% as a result of persecution by EVR and his followers.[citation needed]

59.144.31.158 06:32, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Comments against Brahmins put in crictisim

Comments without citation have been removed but I have however add it in citicism that he uses vulgar language and runs a hate campaign against Brahmins 125.22.66.201 05:31, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

Pro-EVR comments seem to have less hurdles than anti-EVR comments.

Added 'citation required' notes for a number of blatantly pro-EVR comments which where there in the article without any substantiation. - ramananpi.

Dubious references and Incorrect title for this article

The references www.periyar.org and www.tamilnation.org are NOT unbiased or academic sources. Periyar.org is a propaganda page of the Dravidar Kazhagam, and Tamilnation.org is a propaganda site created by a SriLankan activist. These are not sufficient citations.

Most of this article is highly biased towards EVR. The title should be changed from Periyar Ramasami to E. V. Ramaswamy Naicker. That is his real name. Periyar is merely a title that is given by and used by his followers. -- Sekar.

Questions about references need to raised here only citation needed can be raised in the article.Tamil Nadu government after 1967 refers to him as Periyar more so after 1973 hence some users refer him as Periyar while some as EVR it is not by his followers merely but by the Government also.A district Erode was named Periyar district and so on. Hema Malini is not refered as UMA her real name similarly Jayalaitha not as komanavali her real name as no one would know them.They have not changed there names offically.This is the dispute but we need some neutral to decide on this.

I feel Tamilnation.org is okay .It is a Sri Lankan Tamil site with a lot of information about MGR,Tirukural,Tamil literature,musicians not merely politices one of the best ones and other things.It is may considered neutral in this contest.While Periyar.org i agree with you.Further a sify.com reference was provided there.125.22.235.226 06:46, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Broken redirect

{{editprotected}} The redirect plainly should point to E. V. Ramasami Naicker, not Periyar (disambiguation), regardless of what one thinks about the content. --Russ (talk) 15:47, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

This article has been protected since January. I'm going to unprotect it, so you can go back to editing as usual. CMummert · talk 02:32, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

---

More inaccuracies ?

Max Mueller has been classified as a British Scholor in the section 'Periyar and pseudohistory', while the wikipedia references to Max mueller claim that he is German Philologist and Orientalist.

Max Muller was a German born scholar holding a famous indology chair in Britan. This should remove all doubts about the above mentioned inaccuracies.

Why such inaccuracies ?

Why is there no mention of the Vaikom struggle ? Did some self-proclaimed Aryan remove references to Vaikom ?

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by MylaiMirasu (talk • contribs) 22:12, 23 February 2007 (UTC).

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.243.243.251 (talk) 16:41, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

EVR renamed as Periyar

As Periyar University,District are named after him.Tamil Nadu Government calls him Periyar so Periyar 125.22.158.169 09:40, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Periyar River predates EVR by Centuries

The Periyar River, one of the important rivers of South India, predates EVR by thousands of years. Periyar is only a title for EVR given by his followers, and not accepted by others. Because his followers are in power in Tamil Nadu, Tamil Nadu Government calls him Periyar. He never renounced his given name including the caste name during his lifetime. So Wikipedia should refer to him as E. V. Ramaswamy Naicker - the name he always used for himself. Please rename the title to EVR and use disambiguation.

Apart from Periyar River, there are also Periyar Wildlife Sanctuary, Periyar National Park, Periyar Lake, all related to Periyar River, having nothing to do with EVR. All these are major tourist destinations worldwide so it is not correct to go to EVR when one types Periyar in Wikipedia.

These all are not "Periyar" "பெரியார்" but "Periyaru" "பெரியாரு" Both are different. Hence Periyar should mean EVR and Periyaru should be mentioning those lakes and rivers.  Doctor Bruno  09:07, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Contrasting EVR and Sree Narayana Guru - Hatred vs. Godliness

Why I respect Sree Narayana Guru but not EVR. This article says it much better than many others can: http://www.rediff.com/news/jan/27raj.htm

River is really Periyaru = Big River = Periya Aru;

EVR is the real Periyar. Great Man - Or Thanthai Periyar - Father Dada Great Man.

As such Periyar is really EVR and not the river.

--Cindy Manu 12:14, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

-- Periyar River is referred to as Periyar not Periyaru for the last 3000 years.. so you want to rename it for your convenience?? You guys will do anything to get your way won't you..

While Periyar is bad 'Thanthai Periyar' is worse :-) Why would everybody want to call this man as 'Father'.. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by RSekar (talk • contribs) 22:07, 11 January 2007 (UTC).

So you think when someone says "Thanthai Periyar" they mean he is their father ? By your logic, since Gandhiji is called the Father of the nation, he is everyone's father ??? Man, you need help.

periyar was a charlatan and a hoax.

his supporters are busy making up stories about him. one such is his appellation as 'vaikom veerar' or 'vaikom hero', regarding the myth that he was a major player in the vaikom satyagraha on 1924 in kerala.

the fact of the matter is that evr went to kerala. nobody paid the slightest attention to him, because everyone in kerala knew him as a hate-mongering ruffian. he came, he saw, and he was ignored. so instead of 'vaikom veerar', he was 'vaikom visitor' or 'vaikom tourist'. but this 'vaikom veerar' bullshit was part of a speech made by karunanidhi justifying 'dravidian' imperialism over the mullaperiyar dam in kerala just a few weeks ago, so they are still shouting from the rooftops about it.

and why do i feel particularly incensed about this lie? it is because members of my family led the vaikom satyagraha, and they were the ones who were beaten up by the police. this poseur periyar just showed up, got some 'photo ops' and was roundly ignored by all concerned.

this is the kind of 'truth by repeated assertion' that the 'dravidians' and their patrons the christists are very good at. 'dravidianism' is a nihilistic and empty neo-semitic cult, and the cult founders and camp-followers have made out like bandits, just like the fellow-travelers who have benefited from all the other neo-semitic ideologies like marxism, nehruism, ambedkarism, etc.

---so much hatred for a leader of millions? how are you less in "truth by repeated assertion" than that you claim periyar followers to be? It is this arrogance that he fought against till his death. what a pity... the arrogance is still alive!

Periyar related Articles

I have asked for help from India message board. Added NPOV as the point of views are heavily disputed I feel we need someone neutral to adjujrigate on this who is knowledgeable on this. Vaikom issue ,Periyar was asked to lead the agitition because he happened to be the President of the Tamil Nadu congress Committee. Please refer these 2 http://www.media-watch.org/articles/0499/65.html http://www.expressindia.com/ie/daily/19990331/iex31073p.html Anyway added your viewpoint also. Further the naming dispute also has be resolved by someone neutral As I see no meeting point here.

Further blogs,messageboard and own website are not considered as reliable sources as per Wikipedia policy

http://rajeev2004.blogspot.com/2006/12/dravidiana-perversity-of-periyarana.html is a blog now anyone can create a blog or a own site and link a article and give it as a source this is not allowed as it is not it is not relable

while a website of say congress party for a congress article is relaible through gives only there POV.One can add another artcle with a different POV.Harlowraman 07:43, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

"a website of say congress party for a congress article is relaible" -- how is it reliable? Will they cover Emergency period or the anti-Sikh riots in a neutral manner? Will you take information about Nazi part from their web site? Think about it. Same goes for periyar.org or tamilnation.com (12.108.188.134 00:28, 11 January 2007 (UTC))

There is a difference between "partisan" and "reliable". A partisan source can still be reliable, and a non-partisan source can still be unreliable. This is a case of the former.periyarite websites are reliable to state periyarite views in a partisan way. They are not reliable to be stated as the truth. That is my understanding of wikipedia rules.Rumpelstiltskin223 01:25, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

EVR is a not good leader

Neutrality Issues

The EVR page has been run largely by his followers, and presents a very deliberately cultivated point of view. EVR's hate campaign against the Brahmin community of Tamil Nadu is being hidden by the authors, and any attempt to mention that is immediately edited out. One has to only read any of his articles to see how he viewed only brahmins, and every brahmin (irrespective of attitude or background) as the enemy. Since this is a minority community it does not have any voice in what is put out in Tamil Nadu. This situation is similar to that of the Periyar movie - it is created by funds given by the TN government (run by DMK), and other funds collected by DK and other organizations. Further, announcements related to the movie are given by DK general secretary. How objective is this movie going to be? Let Wikipedia not descend to those levels.

Reply - Seconded. He was a polemicist and he laid the groundwork for the persecution of Brahmins in Tamil Nadu.Bakaman 23:34, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Reply - Absolutely. For all his talk of being a rationalist, there never was a bigger hypocrite that walked this earth than EVR. He always advocated anti-brahminism in the garb of atheism. His philosophy never boycotted Islam, Christianity and other religions and their gods. He found soft targets in brahmins and found it easy to create a movement like this and get away with it. If only EVR and his cronies(DK, DMK, Satyaraj, Veeramani, Kamal Hassan included) had spoken against Muslims and their beliefs the way they did against Brahmins, history would have been vastly different. There would never have been any Dravidian parties in existence today. Anti-God is different from Anti-Brahminism and EVR advocated the second in the garb of the first.Silanthimanithan 10:07, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Reply - Mr. Periyar had his beliefs which some of you may agree or not and consequently consider him great or otherwise. I am up for neutral presentation of both viewpoints. But I am saddened by the fact that the page has been just used to spill out more anti-brahmin venom. People need to stop blaming others for their problems. Sure some are born rich, others poor, life is like that - it is all upto you.

Reply: This article should be neutral. On the contrary, it has a high pro-Periyar bias and statements from partisan sites dedicated to Periyar or Dravida Kazhagam. The article needs to be neutral. I feel that a section 'Criticism of EVR' would balance the neutrality of the article-Ravichandar 04:20, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Reply - the present page is totally vandalised by anti-periyar and pro-Brahmin culprits. The truth is that there was so much more to periyar than is being projected in this page. A neutral view is warranted.

Reply - agreed. there is a lot more to Periyar than what is in the current page (as on Sep 9th 2007). besides i find many people in this page claiming that the conventional knowledge of his life is a lie forged by his followers... and then give their version without any evidence... and don't see a problem with this! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.104.35.5 (talk) 02:27, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Persecution of Brahmins Facts do not support this

Please clarify this point

Periyar or EVR spoke and wrote against Brahmins this by itself does not turn into Persecution in a democracy

Looking right from 1919 till date in over 80 years

• 1: No Brahmin has been killed
• 2: No Anti Brahmin riot has taken place
• 3: All measures like Reservation was passed by the legislature subject to challenge in a court of Law.
• 4:He never waged an armed struggle
• 5:He was never even charged for murder or any violent crime
• 6:No Brahmin man or women was ever even serously injured.
• 7:No Human rights group ,MP,MLA including Brahmin MP has spoken in parliament or legislature about the so called persecution of Brahmins.R.Venkatraman,T.T.krishnamachari etc
• 8:No Brahmin has left Madras/Tamil Nadu as a refugee .They have left like many others for better prospects.

Hence I find the concept of Persecution a mere mythI would welcome a reply to this.

125.22.132.241 20:11, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

The facts DO support hate against Brahmins in South. See [5]. There is clearly a systemic vilification of Brahmins in the South. While I admit that some Brahmins have been less thannice, to use that to vilify ALL Brahmins is hatemongering and persecutiob. Please keep such rabidly Anti-Brahman hate out of the encyclopedia, thaa Rumpelstiltskin223 21:39, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Brahmanism and Periyar

People in Imdia should be greatful that finally they can get rid of casteism and religious superstition because of Periyar and other social workers like him. Brahmins are just like any other Indian. They do not have any separate DNA or blood group. as such Brahmins should start mixing with other caste and voluntarily marry other people. This will benefit India in the long range as other nations were able to enslave India because of caste system. If all Indians have joined and fought against the Invaders who came through Khyber Pass or the other colonialists who came through the Cape of Good Hope and Suez Canal the status of India is now far bigger than Japan. India was done to slavery because of the caste system. That is why Periyar is great. He has the guts to tell everything he believed that is true and scientific. Brahmins should take it easy and get over with their new status quo. --Cindy Manu 12:25, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Call E.V.Ramaswamy Naiciker by his ordinary name. The very fact that EVRN's devotees want to call him 'Periya' meaning Great Man in Tamil, shows they are merely interested in thrusting his image on others instead of presenting him rationally with his stregnths and weaknesses. If EVRN was against caste, how come Tamilnadu which has been ruled by his followers for the last 40 years is one of the most casteist? This is the state where children are stamped with caste certificates which will see them through the rest of their lives in education and jobs through these caste certificates. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.194.3.105 (talk) 18:04, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Cindy's note is an example of the muddled thinking that EVR's followers show. First of all, EVR changed the meaning of the word "Brahminism" to mean what is normally meant by "Casteism". In the rest of the world and in the rest of India outside Tamil Nadu, "Brahminism" means the rituals and traditions of Brahmins. This largely includes traditions that are historically practiced by Brahmins and has nothing to do with Casteism. EVR's clever usage of words made Brahmins the only guilty party in a complex caste system that is practised mostly by non-Brahmins. If he had been serious about removing casteism, he would have used the word Casteism. EVR's scapegoating of Brahmins is his only legacy in Tamil Nadu. He blamed all brahmins without exception for all the evils of Tamil society. In his way of thinking, any Brahmin was guilty simply because he was born a Brahmin. Didn't matter whether he/she was broad-minded etc. Most of EVR's ideas show a high degree of emotion-based hatred rather than rational thinking. He is *not* a rationalist in the commonly understood sense of the word - i. e. one whe reasons things out and comes to conclusions. EVR is better described as a hate-monger, similar to other hate-mongers such as Hitler. He wanted the destruction of Brahmins in Tamil Nadu, nothing more, nothing less. He also did nothing for the dalits. He belonged to the non-brahmin upper-caste Naickers, and his propaganda largely benefited the non-brahmin-upper-caste - i. e., the OBCs - who rule Tamil Nadu. -RSekar

I fully agree with this. Also, Periyar lunatics can hardly claim to be more "rational" when every Periyarite in TN keeps claining that Periyar invented everything from fire to rockets. Periyar was a thug like Mussolini. Hee. Rumpelstiltskin223 18:59, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Reason for Brahminism

Look in 1919 over 70% of the posts of Madras Presidency were with the brahmins and over 65 of the university students were brahmins. Brahmins dominated madras Presidency this caused resentment amongst the non brahmins and a non Brahmin Justice Party which brought communial reservation for the first time in india to ensure that 93% non brahmin also got a reasonable share in government jobs ,education etc.Reservation and other measures was supported all other castes except Brahmins as they had everything to lose and similarly.It was only later divisions within the non brahmins like Thever-Dalit,Vanniyar-Dalit came.when Periyar led the movement they were united.Opposition this came only from the Brahmins.No other caste opposed hence Periyar also had to oppose them.this reform movement and policy were opposed by the Brahmins.

That just shows that Brahmins were culturally more prone to education, not a systematic or institutional discrimination by Brahmins in the South. That is a fiction invented by Periyarites in order to portray Brahmins as the mythical "other". Reservation is supported by many Brahmins. Only opposers are Bhumihars/landowners, not scapegoate Brahmins (though some Brahmins oppose it, Brahmin community as a whole did not oppose). Please keep out Periyarite propaganda from wikipedia, thaa. Rumpelstiltskin223 21:36, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Not just in 1919, but even today, if you take certain industries/businesses in Tamil Nadu, certain castes will be dominating even more than Brahmins dominated education. For example - let's see how easy it is for a Dalit to start and thrive in a jewellery business controlled by Chettiars. Or a textile business dominated by Naidus. Where is the anti-Chettiar movement against that? Or where is the talk of reservations in businesses (just like affirmative action in businesses in the US)? The fact is, EVR's movement was a hate campaign against Brahmins, and it did not differentiate between poor or rich brahmins, or broad-minded or narrow-minded brahmins. Brahmins took to education because they had a strong cultural background that encouraged it and actually discouraged the making of money. I don't think anyone who grew up in Tamil Nadu can say with a clear conscience that Brahmins were not vilified by EVR's movement and that foul language and threats of violence were not used against them. It is true that no brahmins were killed but that is because Tamil Nadu was not a separate country and because Brahmins never reacted violently to the violent rhetoric coming from EVR and his followers. What are we seeing now in regards to Srirangam where the people who damaged EVRs statue weren't even Brahmins? That is being used as an excuse to physically attack brahmins with tacit support from the DMK government. (RSekar 22:38, 10 January 2007 (UTC))

Education needs to be Universal

Mr Rsekar Education needs to be universal if the country has to progress.This is the goal of almost the view all right thinking people and governments worldwide.please do not compere Education with Textile or Jewellery.The main reason why Bihar ,Africa do not well is lack of education despite being rich naturally whereas Japan ,South korea do well is because of there human resource created through education despite lacking natural resources. Kerala has achived widespread literacy, equitable and broad health coverage, gender equality, improved life expectancy, poverty reduction despite lack of natural resouces and investment due to education.Tamil Nadu has also progress socially compared to states like Bihar. The reason Tamil Nadu and Kerala do well is because of education where all sections of the society right particularly backword castes have also got education.This is the result of leaders like Periyar,Narayana Guru ,Justice Party who opened the doors of education to all in particular backword classes Whereas in states like Bihar,UP etc upper castes dominated until the Mandal Era. In Bihar for example more 85% of the backword castes are illitrate hence they have pulled the state backwords with low literacy ,poor health coverage ,low life expectancy,poverty and in recent years great social tension between castes. Mr Rumpelstiltskin223 The reason why more brahmins got educated whereas Dalits and other backwords did not is due caste system and caste based professions(Varna system . Education needs to opened to all sections of the society and students of all castes need to enter higher education.Education needs to given to all castes . For the injustice done due to the caste system Dalits and backword castes get just 2 major concessions

• 1:Reservation in higher education
• 2:Reservation in Government jobs.

No social group can be ignored by the Government .Today if goes to a Government office or education institution he will find prople from all castes the number of Brahmins has come down significantly from about 70% in 1919 to around 10% No single caste dominates Similar is the case in BPO which have no reservation.We find Boys and girls from all castes .no single caste dominates. If the IT field is doing it is due to the human resource created by education.Here the sourthern states are doing well .Education has been given to all castes whereas in the north majority of backword are still not given education hence they have pulled the states social progress backwords. Look in 1919 over 50% including the entire population of dalits had less than 2% of the seats and less than 1% of government jobs. Look reservation ensured that all communites got a chance in education.Education was denied under the varna system for over 5000 years.The first generation needs to be education like in Kerala later educated parents will ensure there children are educated for social progressHence the need for ending Brahmin domination.Further in 1919 we had only the Madras University and Annamalai university came up only then in the entire Madras Presidency which included parts of Andhra,Malabar,Belalry etc.There was also a clear lack of resources hence one had to rob peter to give paul.125.22.132.241 18:34, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia is WP:NOT a soapbox. Take this nonsense to a blog. BTW I am not a Brahmin.Rumpelstiltskin223 01:08, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Your argument does not hold water in the light of the fact that Japan, one of the most developed countries in the world, has a caste system with untouchables called Burakumin. We need education and upliftment, that's for sure, but not at the expense of any groups of people, be it Brahmins, Dalits or anybody. As for your diatribe against "Northern States", may I remind you that Gujarat is the most industrially prosperous state in India. Every village in Gujarat has electricity and running water. Punjab has extremely high levels of education with agriculture rising and supplying food to millions across India. West Bengal has produced some of India's most brilliant minds, from Tagore to Amartya Sen. So North Indians are doing just fine thanks. I have great deal of respect for South Indian culture and heritage, from Tamil Cholas to the admirably high literacy rates of Kerala, but YOU kindly keep your Dravidocentrism out of wikipedia, thaa. Rumpelstiltskin223 04:32, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Burakumin are 100% literare in rich Japan and enjoy social security among other things.Secondly they are small minority about only 2% of Japanese Population.Further Caste system was never as organised as in India

Your reference does not back your statement:

“ they are hampered because poor living conditions and education prevent them from obtaining good employment and low income leads to the next generation repeating the cycle ”

They seems as troubled as the Dalits. I believe Burakumin are often compared to Dalits. The only reason why there are more Dalits than Burakumin is because there are more Indians than Japanese. Looks like your little propaganda peice backfired.Rumpelstiltskin223 13:21, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Further I feel the writer refered to the Hindi belt The Hindi belt is not doing fine and Bihar in particular and the Hindi belt. more IT investors including Bill Gates prefer Andhra and the south over north india. Haryana and Punjab are rich argicultural states from time immerial.Gujarat is a traders despite recent violence investment follows in.Bengal was a leading state till B.C.roy was the chief minister.Calcutta was India's most prefered city.61.247.247.249 12:37, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

The Hindi belt is messed up, but the rest of North India is doing just fine, thaa.Rumpelstiltskin223 13:21, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Also, you are trying to couple backward caste and Dalit as if they are together. Yes, Dalits need help but what about Kaunders and Naickers and many Mudaliar and Reddiar sects - who stopped them from being educated? That is the flaw in EVR's thinking. I wouldn't call it a flaw - he deliberately singled out Brahmins for hatred while these other castes were the ones discriminating against the Dalits. Now these same castes are getting the same benefits as the Dalits! EVR was nothing but a non-Brahmin upper caste activist who managed to use the Dalit's real sufferings to get benefits for his own kind (i. e. the Rich OBCs of Tamil Nadu.) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by RSekar (talk • contribs) 05:42, 20 January 2007 (UTC).

If Periyar was a hate monger then

• Gandhiji was one too because he wanted to evict British out of India (and so did many freedom fighters including George Washington). Don't forget that some Britishers don't give a damn about Gandhiji.

You forget that many Dalts hate Gandhi (specially Ambedkar himself), and he is not widely liked by Jews for his remarks concerning the holocaust.Rumpelstiltskin223 04:39, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Don't insult Gandhi by comparing him with EVR. Gandhi stood for universal love. EVR stands for hatred against Brahmins and nothing else - however much his followers try to whitewash him and rewrite history.

• Martin Luther King was too because he wanted to unshackle blacks from racism (Many whites don't give a damn about MLK).

MLK is quite widely liked in USA. They have statues of him everywhere, and every major city has a road named after him. Even MLK was not perfect. He plagiarized his research and there were reports of him cavorting with prostitutes. Also, he supported Soviet Union and communism. Rumpelstiltskin223 04:39, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

MLK never uttered a word of hatred against white people. On the other hand EVR had nothing but foul language for Brahmins. Don't insult MLK by comparing him with EVR.

• Nelson Mandela was too because he wanted to get rid of Apartheid and bring Democracy to South Africa (that meant clearly the whites were going to loose as they were a minority).

Mandela is not widely liked either. Many non-Boerist people in the west criticize Mandela for terrorist activities of the ANC. Rumpelstiltskin223 04:39, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Mandela, again, did not urge the annihilation of white people. Moreover comparing Mandela and EVR is ridiculous. Brahmins did not rule TN the way whites ruled SA. The real rulers of TN were always and still are the rich OBC castes - Kaunders, Thevars, Chettiars, Mudaliars. Brahmins are merely the scapegoats.

• Periyar was, in some sense, did more than the above three "good" leaders because he fought for Women's rights (unknown at that time), against supersitions (unfortunately still bringing down India and other places even today), helped other minorities (Chirstians, Muslims, Buddhists, and others) as they were often threatened by extremist hindus.

There is every indication from his personal life that periyar had little regard for women, and treated them no more than commodities to fullfil his own political aspirations and ego. He abondoned his wife immediately after the death of their infant child and ran away to kashi - does that sound like someone who deeply cared about women and their welfare, or respected his wife? While many Indian men at that time, who were fighting for india's independence, had to leave behind their families for the sake of the freedom of the country, Periyar was not deeply patriot nor an enthusiastic freedom fighter. He was more interested in furthering his political career and saw the British presence as being useful in his political agenda. His abandonement of his wife, and family, reflects by today's standards of marital relationships, a total disregard for his spouse and family. In today's societal context, he would have been labeled as a dead-beat husband. Second, he married at a relatively old age to a woman far younger than himself, and tried to rationalize his behavior that he did it that she could inherit his legacy. His justification rings hollow. She was no doubt a highly attractive young woman who kindled passions in the old man. If his intentions were indeed honorable as he claimed, he could have formally adopted her as his child, which would have then made her the legitimate heir to his legacy. The practice of adoption, by childless persons, was quite common those days. Yet, he married this woman young enough to be his grand-daughter, after decades of preaching respect for women. {user: vmiller2007]

Periyar was a low-level street thug with delusions of grandeur and superstitions of his own. His movement was a sick joke whose adherents believe that Periyar invented ebverything from the wheel to rocket spaceships. He was violent, reactionary, racist and a propagandist. I have nothing but contempt for such people, who destroy the cultural harmony of India by instigating hate against a group of people and incite mobs to murder them and rape their women. Rumpelstiltskin223 04:39, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

EVR was the biggest hoax. A rich landlord who got benefits for his own class while claiming to help Dalits!!

• Sure Periyar wasn't perfect, you can blame him for the problems still existing (after all he should have solved them all single handedly) but thanks to him and others like him, the whole India is now waking up to doing things the right way, meaning giving opportunities for the great majority of them who are the low castes and the untouchables.
• It won't be painless for the high castes but then over a long time there would be no need for the word "caste" in the dictionary and all will gain.

And Periyar's solution was what? Drag every Brahmin and shove them into ovens, or behead them with knives? Rumpelstiltskin223 04:39, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

EVR's followers said "Kovilai IdippOm; Agraharaththai Erippom; Parppana pengalai pothu udamai Akkuvom" - translation - we will destroy the temple, burn the brahmin extension, and make Brahmin women as public property (i.e. prostitutes.) I don't think Gandhi, Mandela, or MLK said anything of this sort (nor did their followers). Now you judge EVR yourself.

When a child misbehaves badly, a mother may curse "Nasama Po!" (somewhat equivalent to "Go to hell") and the child and most onlookers know not to take this literally, which is exactly what has happened in the last 70 years or so (if not answer the point above on where is the evidence for persucation of brahmins... Also, you have been spewing poison in your writings so far and I have not seen what are your great ideas for solving the serious problems of castes?

Copyright violation

I have removed several sections of the article that appear to be direct copies from http://www.countercurrents.org/dalit-periyar280603.htm. The website appears to be copyrighted, and there has been no assertion of permission to copy the article here. Please do not restore these sections without getting the original author's permission to reproduce content under the GFDL, and without reporting it to permissions at wikimedia dot org. Thank you, Tangotango (talk) 11:38, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Periyar's effect on TN

Lots of brahmins have hatred towards Periyar even though none of them felt the effect of his actions personally. However today Jayalalithaa Jayaram a Brahmin Iyengar is the leader of AIADMK. She has been CM many times. S. Ve. Shekar another Brahmin is a MLA in TN assembly. T N Seshan was the CEO of India. Kanchi Sankaracharyar is still the number one spiritual leader in TN with a huge following.

Periyar fought for the rights of backward people. He condemned discrimination of backward classes and dalits. It is only fair that the majority gets to rule while giving minority its proportional power. In this Brahmins have got more than their proportion to tell the truth. One cannot expect to get 100% the power by being only 4% the population in a democracy.

Sriramwins 05:19, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Neither can one expect to get jobs simoply by being born in a rich but low caste family, work without the fear of getting fired, and more or less leech off society. Periyar was not an expert on sociology or anthropology, so his "Brahmin mafia" Hinduphobia, is much like the anti-Semitism in 19th century europe,.23:08, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Even now Brahmin mafia exists even within Brahmins. For example the TVS group of companies reject Iyers and only select Iyengars for the jobs in their companies. Who cares about Government jobs in India anyway? Everybody is quitting government jobs. As far as leeching off society goes, one has to wonder who is worse whether it is modern politicians who invest their earnings in India or the British and their enablers who took their earnings to UK? Sriramwins 22:17, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Sriram, Get your facts right. Where on earth did you come up with a fact that TVS group reject Iyers? I have worked with automobile industry and know many Iyers and non-brahmins in high positions in TVS group. (rams81 20:59, 7 May 2007 (UTC))

Periyar against discrimination and their propagators

Periyar was against both Brahmins and saiva-Vellalas since they were discriminatory towards the remaining 90% of the population. They had all the power, lands and government jobs.

However Brahmins have borne the brunt of his attack simply because brahmins had all the power, lands and government jobs. This was out of proportion to their numbers in the population.

Sriramwins 21:24, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Yeah and Pluto is a planet. The brahmins were 3% of the population, the Nadars, Vellalas, Muda-liars etc had the power. Periyar is a documented anti-Brahmin, and also a documented racist.Bakaman 23:03, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Brahmins were major power holders in Madras Presidency. Nobody can deny that. The only Nadar who was CM was Kamarajar. He did not help even his mother. Again Saiva-Vellalas were quite powerful as Brahmins even though they also constituted only 3% of the population. The Mudaliar and Pillai surname was used by Saiva-Vellalas. But it was also used by other groups. But the power itself remained only in the hands of Saiva-Vellalas. Of course Periyar is a documented anti-Brahmin, anti-Saiva-Vellala and racist. The other powerful group would Nattu-Kottai Chettiars but they never involved themselves in politics or government jobs. Kongu-Vellala, Nadars, Vanniars, Devars, Mutharayars who constitute about 50% of Tamilnadu population had no representation before independence and form the bulk of the Dravidian politicians today. Sriramwins 22:12, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Can we document a survey article published in a major scholarly source stating that he was racist? Otherwise that goes, along with the cat.Hornplease 20:56, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Agreed, I'm not aware of reliable sources stating that he was a racist Also, does anyone know why there is category indicating he was a Buddhist? Addhoc 21:05, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Is Kamal Haasan a Periyar follower?

List of Notable followers

• Kamal Haasan

Please mention any reference to indicate that Kamal Haasan is a follower of Periyar.It might be noted that being an atheist need not necessarily mean one must be follower of Periyar Srikanth ^{\talk \contribs} 06:43, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes he is indeed a noted and open follower of Periyar [6]. There are quite a few references other than this too. ώЇЌĩ Ѕαи Яоzε ^†αLҝ 10:18, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Was he Kannadiga?

I knew EVR always as a person from Telugu family and not as Kannadiga. This article although accepts that he is from a Telugu Naikar family, it says that his mother tongue is Kannada. Is there any reference to that? Thanks ώЇЌĩ Ѕαи Яоzε ^†αLҝ 23:14, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Reference has been provided. He was from a family of Kannada speakers from Erode in Tamil Nadu. Erode district adjoins Karnataka. - Parthi ^{talk/contribs} 22:36, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Parthi. I saw that yesterday and even the edit war tried by a fanatic. Anyways thanks for the reference. ώЇЌĩ Ѕαи Яоzε ^†αLҝ 09:02, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

references

Kudos to Parthi for reducing fluff and nonsense on this page. I dug up an old version and pasted it at Talk:E._V._Ramasami_Naicker/A. I thought it may prove useful.Bakaman 02:52, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

In response to concerns of fancruft, I have placed the A version.Bakaman 23:39, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Removed sentence

I've removed this sentence:

"Growing anti-Brahmanism in Chennai provided a rationale for polarization of the lower castes in the DMK movement."

I'm not certain what this sentence is supposed to convey - is 'polarization' being used to infer 'radicalization'? Addhoc 18:17, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Name

I have never heard of this person, so I am certainly not any source as to what his name should be, but edit warring over it should stop, now, and discussion done here. Corvus cornix 21:20, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

What are you talking about? And who is edit warring about his name? Sarvagnya 21:32, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

One of the users who has reverted has inserted some rather crude anti-Brahmin canards in the article. That same user is changing his given name to periyar. Peri + ayyar = Great noble. Its a nickname, not his name.Bakaman 21:34, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

This, and several reverts like it. Corvus cornix 21:35, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

That was not only about a name. As Bakaman explains above, it was about reverting to a more stable, less crufty version to which the article was rolled back recently. Details can be found in the sections above. And in any case, I dont think I'm required to AGF with 'obvious sockpuppets' like gabbaelephant or whatever. Sarvagnya 22:16, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Tamil Nadu and Indian government call him Periyar lins added.Why do you object ? 81.208.163.214 23:00, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Because the tamil nadu government doesnt run wikipedia. Periyar is an honorific and on wikipedia, we dont use honorifics. Sarvagnya 00:04, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

I would like to point out that the entry on Mahatma Gandhi where Mahatma is honorific and not his actual name. Thanks ώiki Ѕαи Яоzε ^†αLҝ 06:02, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

As do Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, Sree Sree Shivakumara Swamiji, etc... Parthi ^{talk/contribs} 06:33, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

The same is true of all actors Jayalalitha is Komanavalli ,Rajnikant is shivaji Rao and 99% of the Actors have not changed there names legally.193.61.107.150 09:30, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

The article should be E.V. Ramasami Naicker, but it should mention that he was widely known as Periyar. It is a fact. My personal opinion apart, the article should reflect the reality. However I am totally against all the crufty glorification of him which some want to include. I won't support that. I must also warn Sarvagnya that deleting the fact that this man belonged to a family of Kannada speaker is tantamount to vandalism. Thanks Parthi ^{talk/contribs} 03:26, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Socks

We seem to have a sock problem as evidenced with 81.208.163.214 (talk · contribs) and 81.208.161.46 (talk · contribs). The user is filing erroneous 3RR reports (1 2) and such.Bakaman 00:45, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Balija Naidu

EVR was Balija Naidu. Their mother tongue is Telugu.Kumarrao 11:17, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Interesting, but do you have reference to back this claim? ώiki Ѕαи Яоzε ^†αLҝ 11:51, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

---I am trying to search for one. It is a common knowledge in A.P., that Periyar was Balija Nayudu. I know this needs to be supported by a citation. Kumarrao 09:07, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Request for protection

A request has been made on WP:RPP to protect this page due to edit warring. I see the beginnings of an edit war but I also think there is the possibility that the dispute can be resolved without protecting the page. Please make an effort to do so or the page will wind up getting protected.

--Richard 07:23, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

POV is only displayed hence asked for protection and India expert

Example this is an opinion 1:the founder of the radical and sectarian denomination of the Dravidian Nationalist movement, innocuously called the Self-Respect Movement in the Indian state of Tamil Nadu.

IS a POV with no citations. Role in Vaikom Satyagraha is getting reverted through cited with good sources.

Affiliation with the Indian National Congress Again there is no citation and that he is left the movement because of the Aryan invasion theory again is an opinion does not say a word of it. Just to state a few. Similarly Justice Party ruled Madras for a long period from 1921-37 and only lost then to say they had little popular support is POV.

and so on Helloarise 11:41, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Yes I agree that page protection would help a lot with this article. Cheers! ώiki Ѕαи Яоzε ^†αLҝ 13:57, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Why do you think that page protection would help? Would you feel this way if the version of the page that was protected was one that you disagreed with strongly? --Richard 17:28, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Talk:E._V._Ramasami_Naicker/A is a version that Sarvagnya (talk · contribs), Indianstar (talk · contribs), Venu62 (talk · contribs) and all other bondafide editors accepted. The only problem is with Helloarise (talk · contribs) and his socks.Bakaman 16:13, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

The shorter and sourced version of the lead was introduced by me in April. If the longer version is reintroduced, could I suggest that sources are included? Thanks, Addhoc 16:39, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

I accept addhoc's shorter intro.Bakaman 17:30, 3 July 2007 (UTC). Much like Hitler's intro has his dislikes in his intro so should this one.Bakaman 17:41, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Bakasuprman

Please do not engage in edit warring as you are doing.Please do not make me escalate the issue.Already the sock of Hkelker that Rumpelstiltskin223 did similar edits like you in this page.You guys will accept edits only if it is to your liking.Sorry to say that edits are accepted on basis of citations not basis of personal views like the one Addhoc secondly Venu62 (talk · contribs) and all users do not support you and your edit warring.You have been reported several times and been blocked. Look Venu62 put with references that Periyar's mother tongue is Kannada butSarvagnya (talk · contribs) reverts as also in the Carnatic music page.Sorry to say if you do not edits which are cited I will forced to escalate the matter.Please no more sock or meat of Hkelkar Adyarboy 18:24, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Simply no Good references

All others seem to support Periyar's viewpoint .Please go through them Baka before speaking All the references against Periyar are not online and clearly debatable

• Sara Dickey,"The politics of adulation in South India", Journal of Asian Studies Vol 52 No 2 (1993) pages 340-372
• ^ a b Lloyd I. Rudolph Urban Life and Populist Radicalism: Dravidian Politics in Madras The Journal of Asian Studies, Vol. 20, No. 3 (May, 1961), pp. 283-297
• ^ Lloyd I. Rudolph and Suzanne Hoeber Rudolph, The Modernity of Tradition: political development in India P78,University of Chicago Press 1969, ISBN:0226731375
• ^ Singh, Yogendra,Modernization of Indian Tradition: (A Systemic Study of Social Change),Oriental Press 1974 page 167
• ^ C. J. Fuller,The Renewal of the Priesthood: Modernity and Traditionalism in a South Indian Temple P117, Princeton University Press 2003 ISBN:0691116571
• ^ a b c d e f Bergunder M, Contested Past: Anti-Brahmanical and Hindu nationalist reconstructions of Indian prehistory,Historiographia Linguistica, Volume 31, Number 1, 2004, pp. 59-104(46

The other is blog against Periyar by Rajeev.Adyarboy 18:24, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

I have some concerns after going through some of the peer reviewed papers quoted. FYI I have access to most of the journals through Athens login.

• Starting with Sara Dickey’s 1993 paper. To start with the right title of the article is The Politics of Adulation: Cinema and the Production of Politicians in South India which is quoted wrong. It is a 32 pages long article which talks about votes mind set and quotes various examples including NTR, MGR and even touches a bit of North Indian politicians of Sunil Dutt and co. The word ELITE is referred to the previous sentence in which it denotes socioeconomic class and not elite caste as it would mean from the phrase used in the article, since the preceding sentence talks about Aryan race.
• Now coming to Rudolph’s paper, I wasn’t able to find where he talks about mass-migration of Brahmins. I may have missed it. Can someone point where it is mentioned please?
• Now the book Modernization of Indian Tradition, is of concern too since the page quoted (although not online) is obvious from the table of contents (which is online) talks about Gandhi. I do not want to comment on this for now. Will go find it in the library before I say further. But a clarification would be appreciated.
• Its kind of intriguing to find that the pages quoted once again are part of pages missing in the online version in the reference from the book The Renewal of the Priesthood: Modernity and Traditionalism in a South Indian Temple.

Let me make my stance clear that am not throwing allegations of dubious citation, but requesting a clarification. Thanks ώiki Ѕαи Яоzε ^†αLҝ 20:59, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Deferring to the two admins who are active editors of this page

I notice that there are two admins (User:Blnguyen and User:Commander Keane) who are actively editing this page. Presumably they have a better grasp of the issues on this page and so I will defer to them any decisions regarding protection of this page. If you feel that these two editors are not editing in accordance with Wikipedia policies, feel free to leave me a message or post a message on the Administrator's noticeboard. --Richard 14:22, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

I don't really have an interest in this article, I just fixed a cut and paste move. There does seem to be disagreement on where Periyar should redirect. Someone thinks it should go here (E. V. Ramasami Naicker), someone thinks to Periyar River and the other option (currently used) is that it goes to a disambiguation page. Probably the disambiguation page is the best option. A Requested moves discussion could be used to gauge consensus if someone wants to move stuff around again.--Commander Keane 04:31, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Title of this article

Why is the title of this article E. V. Ramasami Naicker when the lead says that his name was Ramaswami or Ramaswamy?

E. V. Ramaswami Naicker redirects here.

I think this title should be titled E. V. Ramaswami Naicker but I am not at all knowledgeable about this topic. Am I wrong?

If I am wrong, then the lead should be changed to reflect the title.

--Richard 18:35, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

His name is E.V.Ramaswamy Naicker. For example, look at his biography by Anita Diehl; it is titled E.V.Ramaswamy Naicker http://www.amazon.com/Ramaswami-Naicker-Periyar-personality-contemporary-international/dp/9124276456/ref=sr_1_2/102-0935012-6748964?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1187077679&sr=1-2

Sami is the Tamil word for Sanskrit Swami.

Balija Naidu

EVR was a Telugu Balija Naidu:

(http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0970-0293(199105%2F06)19%3A5%2F6%3C24%3AWQITDM%3E2.0.CO%3B2-I).

(http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0970-0293(199805%2F06)26%3A5%2F6%3C61%3ATSACNG%3E2.0.CO%3B2-N)

Unprotection is needed to make suitable changes.Kumarrao 08:56, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

With the links provided I think that is a suitable conclusion.Bakaman 16:53, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

It is common knowledge that he was of Telugu ancestry - except to some nitpicking trolls. It seems even a recent movie made on ramaswamy portrays him as a telugu. I also had seen it on The Hindu that he was telugu. Will fish that out when I find time. Sarvagnya 17:07, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Neither of the JSTOR links provided could be verified to see whether they actually support the claim that he was a Telugu. Where as the references we had provided clearly state that he was born in a Kannada speaking family. Parthi ^{talk/contribs} 22:23, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

More references:

• The Modern Rationalist Sept 2004- Editorial "The elders of his caste, namely, Kannada Balija, excommunicated his family. "
• Anita Diehl, E. V. Ramaswami Naicker-Periyar: A study of the influence of a personality in contemporary South India (Lund studies in international history), Esselte Studium (1977) - "E.V.Ramaswami Naicker (Periyar) was born on September 17th 1879 in Erode, Tamil Nadu, into a wealthy and orthodox Kannada Naidu family."

Parthi ^{talk/contribs} 22:41, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

The JSTOR papers mention EVR as Balija Naidu and citations provided by Parthi once again confirm that he was indeed a Kannada Baliji Naidu. I think these are enough evidence for his mother tongue. I feel the message (doesn't matter if you are pro or agaisnt them) that he propagated needs to be concentrated more, unless someone comes with more reliable references and no more POVs. ώiki Ѕαи Яоzε ^†αLҝ 23:19, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Mother tongue Kannada

Please see below they say they his mother tongue is Kannada http://www.buddhiwadi.org/periyar.htm%7Cpublisher= buddhiwadi.org Several out of his biographers describe Kannada as his mother tongue.Erode his birth place is near Karnataka.Adyarboy 17:53, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

I think as per the mother tongue is considered it has been made quite clear even earlier (acctually I had raised concerns of him not being a Kannada) that although he is from a Telugu origin family his mother tongue is Kannada. If this is too confusing Sarvagnya just needs to go towards the electronic city to the village called Yarandahalli to find Reddies of Telugu origin but with Kannada as mother tongue. ώiki Ѕαи Яоzε ^†αLҝ 19:39, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Moreover note that the peer reviewed papers provided on authenticity of him being Balija Naidu just states him as Balija Naidu and not as Telugu Balija Naidu. Thanks. ώiki Ѕαи Яоzε ^†αLҝ 19:47, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Buddhiwadi is not a reliable source.Bakaman 01:12, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

How do you say that? See this for information on the website. What makes a source reliable? Anyway I have provided more evidence above. Parthi ^{talk/contribs} 01:16, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps it is, I did not see the trustees. However, I hardly care if he was Kannada, Telugu, or Chinese. The real problems are fancruft, glorification, and anti-Brahmin rhetoric being inserted in here by IP users and SPA's.Bakaman 01:21, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

---

Balija Naidus are Telugu people who speak Telugu. Balija Naidus domiciled in Karnataka and Tamil Nadu speak Telugu at home. Periyar is Telugu Naicker. This is well-known. He belonged to Balija caste. This info is now made available. I do not see any contradictions. Kumarrao 08:20, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

All Balija Naidus don't have Telugu as their Mother Tongue. You are quoting as what is according to you a common knowledge, but in acctual sense its not. You can check out Kannada matrimonial website with Balija Naidus with Kannada as mother tongue advertising (I am not giving any specific profile links here, since it seems in appropriate). Cheers ώiki Ѕαи Яоzε ^†αLҝ 13:00, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

All Balija Naidus are of Telugu ancestry. They may have settled all over the place and become naturalised Kannadigas in Ktaka and that is what they mention in matrimony sites. Nobody mentions what their long lost ancestors spoke in the mother tongue field. For that matter you will find Tamil Naidus too on the same sites! And that is what evr was. He was a naturalised Tamil who(or maybe the previous generation in his family) spoke Telugu at home. Even the recent movie underwritten by the Karunanidhis clearly shows his family speaking Telugu. I've asked Tamil friends and they say its common knowledge in TN that Naickers are of Telugu ancestry and only a biased nationalist Tamil cabal headed by nitpicking trolls can be blind to this fact. Sarvagnya 21:26, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Yes indeed, he may be of Telugu ancestory, but his mother tongue is Kannada as per the citations provided and if you have proof otherwise please provide citations. Cheers ώiki Ѕαи Яоzε ^†αLҝ 22:09, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Anti-semitic

Is there any evidence that EVR was anti-semitic? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 196.207.47.60 (talk • contribs) 10:00, 8 Jul 2007 (UTC)

EVR was not an anti-semite simply because he was too plugged into Tamil caste politics and wholly obsessed with it to bother about international trends like anti-semiticism. He had no knowledge of Jews to take any opinion on them. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.194.3.105 (talk • contribs) 21:16, 16 Aug 2007 (UTC)

Misleading Bibiography

Bibiography deliberately gives wrong name for the book, by dropping 'Naicker' after EVR's name. The correct book name is E. V. Ramaswami Naicker-Periyar: A study of the influence of a personality in contemporary South India (Lund studies in international history) (Unknown Binding) by Anita Diehl

http://www.amazon.com/Ramaswami-Naicker-Periyar-personality-contemporary-international/dp/9124276456/ref=sr_1_2/102-0935012-6748964?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1187077679&sr=1-2

No doubt those of his followers who argue 'Naicker' should be dropped from his name do not mind lying about book names (and his name).

Spelling error

{{editprotected|Under the 'Periyar and pseudohistory' subcategory there is a spelling error. Please change the word 'absense' to the correct spelling of 'absence'. Thank you}} F-402 04:21, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Done. Cheers. --MZMcBride 02:45, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

We need to take the article to mediation

It has been edit protected several times.I believe a edit war will start if protection is removed.Even the name is dispute.Indian and Tamil Nadu governments refer him as Periyar and not E. V. Ramasami Naicker.Further the name is spelt in different ways and spellingPharaoh of the Wizards 03:02, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Dravidian civilizations

Wiki Raja 09:24, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

EVR

Simply no Good references All others seem to support Periyar's viewpoint .Please go through them Baka before speaking All the references against Periyar are not online and clearly debatable

Sara Dickey,"The politics of adulation in South India", Journal of Asian Studies Vol 52 No 2 (1993) pages 340-372 ^ a b Lloyd I. Rudolph Urban Life and Populist Radicalism: Dravidian Politics in Madras The Journal of Asian Studies, Vol. 20, No. 3 (May, 1961), pp. 283-297 ^ Lloyd I. Rudolph and Suzanne Hoeber Rudolph, The Modernity of Tradition: political development in India P78,University of Chicago Press 1969, ISBN:0226731375 ^ Singh, Yogendra,Modernization of Indian Tradition: (A Systemic Study of Social Change),Oriental Press 1974 page 167 ^ C. J. Fuller,The Renewal of the Priesthood: Modernity and Traditionalism in a South Indian Temple P117, Princeton University Press 2003 ISBN:0691116571 ^ a b c d e f Bergunder M, Contested Past: Anti-Brahmanical and Hindu nationalist reconstructions of Indian prehistory,Historiographia Linguistica, Volume 31, Number 1, 2004, pp. 59-104(46 The other is blog against Periyar by Rajeev.Adyarboy 18:24, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

I have some concerns after going through some of the peer reviewed papers quoted. FYI I have access to most of the journals through Athens login. Starting with Sara Dickey’s 1993 paper. To start with the right title of the article is The Politics of Adulation: Cinema and the Production of Politicians in South India which is quoted wrong. It is a 32 pages long article which talks about votes mind set and quotes various examples including NTR, MGR and even touches a bit of North Indian politicians of Sunil Dutt and co. The word ELITE is referred to the previous sentence in which it denotes socioeconomic class and not elite caste as it would mean from the phrase used in the article, since the preceding sentence talks about Aryan race. Now coming to Rudolph’s paper, I wasn’t able to find where he talks about mass-migration of Brahmins. I may have missed it. Can someone point where it is mentioned please? Now the book Modernization of Indian Tradition, is of concern too since the page quoted (although not online) is obvious from the table of contents (which is online) talks about Gandhi. I do not want to comment on this for now. Will go find it in the library before I say further. But a clarification would be appreciated. Its kind of intriguing to find that the pages quoted once again are part of pages missing in the online version in the reference from the book The Renewal of the Priesthood: Modernity and Traditionalism in a South Indian Temple. Let me make my stance clear that am not throwing allegations of dubious citation, but requesting a clarification. Thanks ώiki Ѕαи Яоzε †αLҝ 20:59, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

As raised by other users .i also checked the references not finding the the concerned piece except in rajeev's blog .If you we can take it to mediationPharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 16:13, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 16:13, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

All the references are available online if you have any question

Please raise .I will be sorted .Please do not revert blindly.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 00:37, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Remove 'Naicker' from periyar's name

Periyar EVR announced in 1929 that his name was not EV Ramasami naicker,Only "E.V.Ramasamy". Thus he denied to use the caste name in addition to his name. As he was a social reformer, fought for eradication of caste and imprisoned somany times for this reason. It is an insult to him, which was planned and implemented by some fundamentalists. So please remove naicker from his name and pu Periyar E.V.Ramasamy as Title —Preceding unsigned comment added by Princenrsama (talk • contribs) 15:56, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Name change

We will drop Naicker from the name.As per request as he himself disowned it.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 14:36, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Name

The name and speeling have been a problem with some wanting to name him Periyar as the Tamil Nadu Government calls him and other by other spellings.His website calls him PERIYAR E.V. RAMASAMY [7]going by it.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 22:31, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

RAMASWAMI NAICKER WAS 100% TELUGU MAN AND HE BELONGED TO BALIJA NAIDU CASTE

If any one has any doubt regarding the origin of Ramaswami Naicker, please see the following information from the venerable PAULA RICHMAN in MANY RAMAYANAS. " BORN IN 1879 INTO A FAMILY OF BALIJA NAIDUS,A TELUGU JATI OF TRADERS AND CULTIVATORS, HE GREW UP IN ERODE ,A FAIRLY IMPORTANT MERCANTILE TOWN IN THE COIMBATORE DISTRICT OF MADRAS." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.145.203.160 (talk) 07:02, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Irony

I am flabbergasted by the analogy of some people that a person's caste name can be changed with the place where he comes from, or with the language he speaks . It is a well known fact that E.V.Ramaswami Naicker belongs to Balija Naidu caste.Balija Naidus (Kapus /Telagas) are out and out Telugu people, and wherever they live and whatever language they speak they want to remain as "Balija Naidus". In my opinion they strive hard to maintain their Telugu ancestry(identity) , and do not want to become a separate caste entity such as "Kannada Balija Naidu","Tamil Balija Naidu","Malayalee Balija Naidu"or "Marathi Balija Naidu" simply because they speak Kannada,Tamil,Malayalam or Marathi respectively. Irrespective of the languages he spoke or the places where he came from Ramaswami Naidu(Naicker) was simply a "Balija Naidu" of Telugu ancestry . He spoke not only Kannada and Tamil but also Telugu.Though he himself was never inclined to divulge his caste name ,it is interesting to see some people giving him a "newfound caste name". . —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.145.203.160 (talk) 10:11, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Category:Indian Buddhists

The article is currently in Category:Indian Buddhists. Is there a reference to support this? PhilKnight (talk) 20:38, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Social affiliation

There are multiple evidences to show that EVR:

• Spoke Kannada at home
• Belonged to Balija caste
• His ancestors migrated from Kannada speaking areas along with Vijayanagar armies
• His Balija affiliation shows that he had Telugu ancestry

The sentence was modified to reconcile all these facts.Kumarrao (talk) 08:33, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

The recent edit by 117.192.99.81 with proper citation settles the matter of EVR's caste affifiliation. As mentioned above, EVR spoke Kannada, belonged to Balijavaru caste (Balija is basically a Telugu caste) that migrated from Karnataka region to Tamil areas along with Vijayanagar army.Kumarrao (talk) 07:06, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

criticism

I removed the criticism section because they are quite damning and unreferenced. If anyone has a reliable source for those criticisms or it can be attributed to any other references used elsewhere in the article, it can be added again. Docku^Hi 13:22, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Dravidian in the Intro

Dravidian is a pov term and should be removed from the lead. -Bharatveer (talk) 09:44, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Why is Dravidian a pov term? Indian is a POV term. Furthermore, it is as generic as the term "Oriental". Wiki Raja (talk) 11:54, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Naidruva's addition of sentence

Please do not add information which is not part of the quoted reference source. Thank you. Wiki Raja (talk) 22:16, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Unsourced info added by anon user

Please do not add information which is not part of the quoted reference source. The Self-Respect movement was not Anti-brahmin, it was Anti-brahminism. Thus, it was not against the individual, but the actions taken by the individual. Further, anti-Brahminism was one of many actions taken in the Self-Respect Movement and not the main topic in discussion. Wiki Raja (talk) 12:39, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Praise of tamil language section

This section needs to be cited/referenced with reliable additional sources. They appear to be dubious. 122.164.29.66 (talk) 07:17, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

FYI: This section is cited/referenced along with page number. It is confusing as to what you mean by dubious. This section is about Periyar's views on Tamil, not on whether all the other Dravidian languages came from Tamil or not. Wiki Raja (talk) 13:08, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

tamil and kannada scripts

I am in general not in favour of having other language scripts in article. It kind of gets ugly when regionalists try to assert their claim to the article and so i took the liberty to remove both Tamil and Kaanada scripts. Adding Kannada script to the introduction is WP:UNDUE as we know that his life and political carrier has nothing to do with Karnataka other than he was born to Kannada speaking parents in TN. Docku:“what up?” 18:14, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Your concern is understood. But, please do not refer to Tamil and Kannada scripts as strange characters. Others could say that Hindi and Sanskrit are of strange alien writing which looks nothing more than chicken scratch. Further, please do not refer to users who, in good faith, post Tamil or Kannada scripts on this page as regionalist. Wikipedia is not a place for politics. Thank you. Wiki Raja (talk) 23:33, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Lead

Sorry about being a little snarky. I believe the article lead needs some improvement. As per WP:LEAD, The emphasis given to material in the lead should roughly reflect its importance to the topic according to reliable, published sources. The lead does not mention many of the noteworthy information discussed in the articcle. Dont u think? Docku:“what up?” 23:50, 12 October 2008 (UTC)