Template talk:Prophets in the Hebrew Bible

May 2007

since some of these are prophets only in Judaism see Table of Prophets of Abrahamic Religions I am making a seperate template for the prophets of judaism — Preceding unsigned comment added by Java7837 (talk • contribs) 14:10, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Worksheet for reviewing names of Prophets from the Protestant point of view

Prophet Defined

An authoritative and infallible teacher of God's will.

As names of Books of the Bible

Major Prophets

Minor Prophets

Other Prophets in the Bible

Ahijah
Azariah
Elijah
Elisha
Gad
Huldah
Iddo
Micaiah
Moses
Nathan
Samuel
Shemaiah
Uriah - a prophet who is murdered by Jehoiakim

The Patriachs

Judges

Deborah - also known as a prophet
Joshua

Priests

Kings

note: the Kings are generally not considered prophets though many of their utterances were prophetic.

Duplicate?

Pinchas - redirects to Phinehas

Questionable (need to do more research)

Important persons in the Bible but questionable regarding status as prophet

These may be known to have spoken a prophetic utterance, but that in itself may not be enought to carry the title of prophet

Amoz
Eliezer
Miriam - the sister of Moses
Sarah - the wife of Abraham

Names belonging to the Judaism list

Judaism: Baruch Neriah Seraiah Mordecai Hannah Abigail Esther

I would agree with the segregation of the current list as seen above, but would recommend adding to that list some of the names listed above, but would like to do a bit more research before recommending making any changes. Dbiel ^(Talk) 02:40, 13 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

About the "Questionable" sections:

Chaziel=Jahaziel – HE
Hanani – HE
Oded – HE
Eliezer – refers to Eliezer son of Dodavahu in HE
Miriam – "Miriam the prophetess" in Exodus 15:20

The others have no direct Biblical source, as far as I know. --Eliyak T·C 03:32, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Note: the above links still need to be checked and revised. The above worksheet is still underconstruction and was input by Dbiel ^(Talk) 12:51, 10 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This is a template, and its purpose is mainly for navigation within this encyclopedia, rather than to define or explain anything. I commend you for your interest, but I do not think we are going to be able to make a constructive template that uses all this information. Would you also add Abel and Zechariah Ben Jehoiada (see Luke 11:50–51)? As Christians do not recognise a fixed list of "Prophets", other than the writers of books of the Bible, I suggest that this template should simply use the Jewish list, adding only Daniel for Christian purposes. Perhaps it could usefully have three sections: those clearly recognised by both religions i.e. the above lists of major, minor & other prophets, then "Judaism:" before the rest, ending with "Christianity: Daniel". Fayenatic london (talk) 13:23, 11 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This list is being built solely at the request of Epson291 for the purpose of identifing difference between the Protestant and Jewish POV (his request can be found on my talk page under the heading Prophets). As far as major, minor goes, this only refers to the books of the Bible themselves, not to the prophets; and is only being used for the purpose of building this list. In terms of the template, they probably should be combinded with the list of "other prophets" as a single group of prophets. The heading used are not meant to become part of the template but rather a simple sorting guide for viewing difference that can then be used to determine what, if any, changes should be made to the template itself.

I probably should have worked this worksheet in my sandbox and then copied it over only after it was finished, but in this case I chose to start it here instead, allowing others to work on it as well, if they so chose. Dbiel ^(Talk) 03:55, 12 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree re major/etc. By 3 sections I meant: Both, Judaism, Christianity. I think this is what you are working on too; I was just suggesting the sections of the list above which I thought most Christians would describe as prophets.

Why would the Judges "also fall into the category of prophets"? Fayenatic london (talk) 08:21, 12 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This leads to the greater question of what is the difference between a King, Prophet, Priest and Judge (the rule of Israel prior to the first King). Debroah was clearly one of the Jewish Judges but was also known as a prophetess. David and Solomon are far better know as being Kings of Israel rather than as prophets. I am simply raising the question as I have no objection to their inclusion in the list. Dbiel ^(Talk) 01:50, 13 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Logo changes and recent reverts

I reverted it for now to the original one, I'm not sure where this is heading though. Epson291 07:33, 15 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I split the previous entry off of the prior topic and gave it a new heading. Dbiel ^(Talk) 19:46, 15 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Somewhere along the line the heading "Judaism:" was deleted. It think it was unintentional. It along with Christianity served to break out those entries that were not common between both Judaism and Christianity. I added the heading back in. On a separate note: I liked the smaller original logos better, but that is just my single POV. Dbiel ^(Talk) 19:46, 15 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Apologies, actually the big pictures are the "original" but who's counting, I don't care either way. Epson291 03:14, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Jewish section

The talmud doesn't list noah and adam as prophets but later jewish texts list them as prophets --Java7837 20:15, 13 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Which texts? Epson291 07:22, 15 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure but i do remember learning that Noah was a prophet from some jewish text--Java7837 22:45, 17 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Can you please verify it before readding it? I'm only familar with the 55 prophets accoridng to the Talmud, that is what i learned. Epson291 03:17, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Epson291 there is a certain spot in the talmud where it lists all the prophets but it doesn't mention Bithia she is said in sotah 12b to have prophesied see http://www.come-and-hear.com/sotah/sotah_12.html Java7837 20:41, 13 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Epson291 the following are listed as gentile prophets in Baba Bathra 15b Seven prophets prophesied to the heathen, namely, Balaam and his father, Job, Eliphaz the Temanite, Bildad the Shuhite, Zophar the Naamathite, and Elihu the son of Barachel the Buzite

http://www.come-and-hear.com/bababathra/bababathra_15.html#PARTb --Java7837 21:16, 13 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Forty-Eight Prophets and Seven Prophetesses

The Talmud (Megillah 14a) says that there were 48 Jewish male prophets and 7 female prophets. The Talmud lists the female prophets as: Sarah, Miria, Deborah, Hannah, Abigail, Huldah, and Esther. The Talmud does not list the exact reckoning of the 48 male prophets. The commentaries on the Talmud there scramble to list the 48 prophets. Rabbeinu Chananel offers one method of listing the 48. Rashi quotes in the name of Rabbi Simeon Kayyara another reckoning of the 48, and the Vilna Gaon and Rabbi Joel Sirkes offer textual emendations to version of Rashi which in essence two more reckonings of the 48 prophets. AND Rabbi Jehiel ben Solomon Heilprin offers an alternate version of the quote from Rabbi Simeon Kayyara. So, it's a big issue how to count the 48 prophets, especially because in Rashi's own counting, he only lists 46 and says that there are two more that he doesn't know their identities. The commentators, including Rabbi Abraham Maskileison, Rabbi Yehudah Aryeh Leib Alter, Rabbi Zvi Hirsch Chajes, The Netziv and Rabbi Aryeh Leib ben Asher Gunzberg also try to figure the identities of the two prophets who Rashi left out. Should I bother typing up all the details of this discussion in English? --רח"ק | Talk | Contribs 22:44, 13 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

See User:Rachack/48 Prophets. --רח"ק | Talk | Contribs 19:05, 15 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Plz type it up in english it is very important--Java7837 19:21, 15 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Why is Daniel not considered a prophet by the jews

the talmud says thus "They were better than he, because they were prophets, and be, Daniel, was not a prophet." http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/t04/meg02.htm --Java7837 18:40, 15 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Suggestion

Can the Judeo-Christian section, and the jewish section lists be alphabetized--Java7837 18:43, 15 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'd be inclined to keep the present chronological approach with divisions for Torah and other eras. - Fayenatic london (talk) 20:23, 15 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Christianity -abel

Luke 11:50–51) clearly identifies abel as a prophet --Java7837 20:50, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Christianity zechariah

see http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Chronicles%2024:20-22&version=31

and http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=luke%2011:50-11:51&version=31

--Java7837 20:59, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Good work, although I wasn't serious when I originally suggested adding Abel and Zechariah - I simply meant to point out how complicated it could become. I think the template has got rather messy at the moment. We also need a new article for Jehu son of Hanani 1 Kings 16:1,7,12 & 2 Chron 19:2 (is that one man or two?) because there's currently only a page for Jehu the butcher-king son of Nimshi (1 Kings 19:16, 2 Kings 9 - 10) who was in no way a prophet. Fayenatic london (talk) 22:26, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

They are specifically called prophets so i thought it was important to put them on the template--Java7837 23:17, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Now that is what I call a stubby stub! At least it gets the butcher off the template. - Fayenatic london (talk) 20:48, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Eldad and Medad

http://www.come-and-hear.com/sanhedrin/sanhedrin_17.html says they prophesied "Moses shall die and Joshua shall bring Israel into the land" and thus are not false prophets like christians consider them to be.