Talk:William Penn

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William Shenstone

There is a link here from William Shenstone which I am pretty sure refers to a different William Penn. I will delete the link unless somebody tells me I am wrong and it is the same Penn. Cutler 10:59, May 24, 2004 (UTC)

At the end of the article, the sentence reads (emphasis mine), Later, according to the story, Penn again met Fox, but this time without the coat. Penn then said, "I have taken thy furcoat; I wore it as long as I could.

This makes no sense to me: should that be coat? --Calton 23:36, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Quaker

Hello, if anyone is interested, I just started a Quaker WikiProject, which can be found at WP:WQ or Wikipedia:WikiProject Religious Society of Friends (Quakers). Zach 00:30, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Quaker age

I am not so sure if Penn became a Quaker at the age of 25 becaase according to The American Nation From Prentice Hall (c) in 2002 has that William Penn shocked his Friends and Family by joining the Quakers, one of the most despised...

maybe.....

maybe he did become a quaker at that age..i am pretty sure.

Birthplace?

The article fails to state WHERE Penn was born.

Also, is there anything known about his library? Are parts of it still extant, and where? A recent auction offered some books bearing his exlibris, so obviously some must have been sold, or was it again that "different" William Penn who Cutler is talking about? Dunnhaupt 23:29, 3 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

William Penn's father, Admiral Penn, was land grant deeded land in and around the village of Shanagarry, County Cork, Ireland; where he was born on the 14th October 1644 in "Shanagarry House". There are still Quaker families in the area to this day. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.165.163.197 (talk) 20:54, 20 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Information

There's a biography out about Benjamin Franklin called "The First American", and it has a lot of good information about William Penn and his descendants (not to mention information about Cotton Mather, Benjamin Franklin, and some of the Founding Fathers). If anyone's read it, they might want to help contribute to this article.

anti-atheism?

(complete freedom of religion for everybody who believed in God), ambiguous, please clarify if he was anti-atheism

===Vandalism-- Someone has carved a great chunk out of this article and another has added some material about his marriages and children than needs referencing. Have to get up early so can't do anything now! ---Vernon White 22:46, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Penn and Hawkhurst

Someone has inserted "Before moving to America, Penn owned ironworks in the Kent village of Hawkhurst." This information also being given on the Hawkhurst article. The editor seems to think Penn settled permanently in America. It doen't seem to me useful to include this unreferenced information in the main article on Penn. === Vernon White (talk) 23:16, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Site of Wlliam Penn's grave

Someone has added a link to http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=802, which has a photo showing a gravestone. Can this be an original gravestone or even the correct location at Jordans Burial Ground? Quakers were forbidden to erect gravestones until a change in the regulations in 1850 (Source: E. Isichei Victorian Quakers) === Vernon White (talk) 23:49, 11 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I added the link as I found it. -- Michael David 00:15, 12 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That statement strikes me as probably incorrect. I know little about Quakerism, but I do know that there is a famous Quaker burial ground in the British Virgin Islands containing a large number of graves with dates from 1730 to 1780 (from the Quaker settlement of that period) which can still be visited today. --Legis (talk - contributions) 17:59, 24 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"Christened"?

"The first died before being christened."

Why would Quaker children be christened? === Vernon White (talk) 23:01, 22 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

William Penn

William Penn started the Pennsylvania Colony in 1652. Pennsylvania means "Penn's Woods". William was a quaker and was sent to jail a few time for being one.asdfghjkl; —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.149.51.63 (talk) 01:51, 13 March 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Needs more cleanup

Good article, but there are still some redundancies, like the bit about paying natives fairly. I reordered some parts for better flow. Should the little section about James I be removed? 68.46.22.38 01:37, 11 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Who Is Related

I am related to William Penn, I forgot how, I will post that when i find out. If you are related to William Penn post here. It would be cool to know People I am sorta realated to. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pink 216 (talk • contribs) 04:41, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

As the text at the top of this page says:

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the William Penn article. This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject.

What you want is a genealogical forum, such as the ones at rootsweb.com or genealogy.com Studerby 21:20, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

More balanced view of Penn's legacy

The original article had

"His family retained ownership of the colony of Pennsylvania until the American Revolution."

Here's what I added:

"However, William's son and successor, Thomas Penn, fought to restrict religious freedom (particularly for Roman Catholics and later Quakers), weaken or eliminate the elected assembly's power, and run the colony instead through his appointed governors — he was a bitter opponent of Benjamin Franklin and Franklin's push for greater democracy in the years leading up to the revolution."

It's not fair to discuss the positive parts of his legacy without mentioning the negative parts as well. Instead of reverting, how about some discussion? From the current article, you'd think that PA was an earthly paradise from William's death until the revolution, rather than a colony becoming increasing less tolerant, less financially solvent, and less democratic under autocratic proprietors. David (talk) 21:10, 3 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I don't disagree that Penn's successors were not as tolerant as he. I just think the information should be added to the Thomas Penn or History of Pennsylvania articles, with a source if possible. Coemgenus 21:18, 3 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Thomas Penn article goes into it in detail already — the reason for mentioning it here is that we need to consider both sides of the legacy, and to include at least a pointer letting people know that information exists. For example, the article currently calls William "one of the founding fathers of the United States" even though no such country existed until over a half century after his death. I think it's also fair, then, to mention in a sentence or two how the undemocratic proprietor system he passed on to his son and great-nephew allowed them to impose their intolerance on PA, and how that helped to hasten the revolution by aggravating people like Franklin. There's a lot more that we could mention — such as the fact that his son's governors put bounties on scalps from the Indian tribes that William had befriended — but people can go to Thomas's article for more detailed info. David (talk) 14:14, 5 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Imporatance within Wikiproject Bristol

For the benifit of those wondering, I have changed the importance field of this project. As to why the article falls within the Wikiproject - a number of places there are named for this William Penn, and the Penn family is a notable Bristol family although some urban legends result from confusing him with his father.

NullofWest (talk) 18:14, 16 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Need to supplement or replace the Fantel source

About 100 of the 140 references are to Hans Fantel's illustrated children's book, William Penn: Apostel of Dissent [1]. Is this really a reliable source? I'm afraid that heavy reliance on this source presents a saccharine, two-dimensional image of Penn. Taiwan prepares (talk) 18:18, 12 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]