Wikipedia:Reference desk/Language and Wikipedia:WikiProject Queensland: Difference between pages
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{{portal|Queensland}} |
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[[Category:Non-talk pages that are automatically signed]]{{Wikipedia:Reference desk/header|WP:RD/L}} |
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<div align="center" style="font-size:200%;font-weight:normal;margin:0;padding-top:0.5em;padding-bottom:0.25em;">'''WikiProject Queensland'''</div><p style="margin:0 3px .8em 3px; font-variant: small-caps; text-align: center; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom:.2em; font-size: 105%;">[[Wikipedia:Australian Wikipedians' notice board|Board]] | [[:Category:Wikipedians in Queensland|List]] | [[Portal:Australia|Australia Portal]] | [[:Category:WikiProject Queensland|Projects]] | [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Queensland/To-do|To-Do]]<br/></p> |
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<h2 style=" border: 2px solid black; background: #44A222; color: white; text-weight: bold; padding: .1em; text-align: center; font-weight: bold; font-size: 100%; margin-bottom: 0px; border-bottom: none;">Welcome to WikiProject Queensland!</h2> |
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[[Image:Brampton Island Queensland Resort Overview.jpg|thumb|left|[[Brampton Island]] resort]] |
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{{Shortcut|WP:QLD}} |
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<!--<div style="float:left;margin-right:0.2em">[[Image:Picture.jpg|left|150px|Picture of iconic QLD feature.]] |
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</div>-->This [[WikiPedia:WikiProject|WikiProject]] aims to create and improve articles and images related to '''[[Queensland]], [[Australia]]''', particularly those relating to the state as a whole, or to areas outside the [[WP:BRISBANE|WikiProject Brisbane]] area of interest. |
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We would like as much help as possible, so if you are interested, please add your name to the list below, and look at the to-do list for some suggestions on articles that you may be able to help with. You may also inquire on the [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Queensland|talk page]], or visit the [[Wikipedia:Australian Wikipedians' notice board|Australian Wikipedians' noticeboard]] for collaboration on Australian articles in general. |
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{{Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Archives/Language/2008 October 4}} |
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<div style="margin:-.8em 0"> {{Portal:box-footer | [[Queensland|Visit the main article...]] }} </div> |
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</div> |
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[[Image:Qld region map 2.PNG|thumb|220px|Map of official regions of Queensland.]] |
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__TOC__ |
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==Categories== |
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{{Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Archives/Language/2008 October 5}} |
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The '''WikiProject Queensland''' page was created on 13 October 2007 to improve articles related to Queensland. The project has two active sub-projects; [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Brisbane|WikiProject Brisbane]] and [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Townsville|WikiProject Townsville]]. The scope of the project includes articles in the following categories. |
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{| align="right" |
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|{{Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Queensland articles by quality statistics}} |
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|} |
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<div style="font-size:90%"><categorytree>Queensland</categorytree></div> |
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==Things you can do== |
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{{Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Archives/Language/2008 October 6}} |
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{| align="right" |
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|{{Wikipedia:WikiProject Queensland/Maintenance}} |
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|} |
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{{Wikipedia:WikiProject Queensland/To-do}} |
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{{User:WolterBot/Cleanup listing subscription|wgcat=WikiProject Queensland articles}} |
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==Goals== |
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= October 7 = |
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* To coordinate and improve articles related to [[Queensland]]; |
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* To foster collaboration between editors in [[:Category:Wikipedians in Queensland|Queensland]]; |
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* To establish appropriate linkages with the Wikipedia Australia project and portal; |
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* To ascertain and identify the Queensland component of other Wikipedia projects; |
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* To improve iconic and high-profile Queensland articles to FA quality. |
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==Related projects== |
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== Hitler's accent == |
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{{Col-begin}} |
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For me, Hitler's accent doesn't sound Austrian, although he grew up there and his 'r' sound sounded different from modern Germans too. Am I right? Are there more differences? <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Mr.K.|Mr.K.]] ([[User talk:Mr.K.|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Mr.K.|contribs]]) 11:00, 7 October 2008 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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{{col-2}} |
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: I am not up on german linguistic variation, but there may be several issues at hand. First of all, it is possible, either through training, or just naturally over time, for a person's accent to change. For example, when I was growing up I had a rather strong [[Boston accent|New England accent]], however after living in 3 other areas of the U.S., my accent has become "neutralized" to where it matches the classic "U.S. Television News Reporter accent"... Also, accents are not simply uniform, even in the same geographic area. There are likely to be local variation, as well as socioeconomic variation. --[[User:Jayron32|Jayron32]].[[User talk:Jayron32|<small>talk</small>]].[[Special:Contributions/Jayron32|<small>contribs</small>]] 11:52, 7 October 2008 (UTC) |
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::Don't forget that accents can change through time - 60, 70 years ago, Hitler's accent could have been the most standard form of Austrian accent. Not saying that's the case, just throwing the historio-linguistic component into the debate. [[User:TomorrowTime|TomorrowTime]] ([[User talk:TomorrowTime|talk]]) 12:02, 7 October 2008 (UTC) |
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;Parent project |
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:::Another thing to keep in mind if you're basing your impression of his accent on his prepared speeches is that he could have been consciously suppressing his Austrian accent for the benefit of his German listeners. Rural Austrian accents sound very "hillbillyish" to Germans (which is why Arnold Schwarzenegger never dubs his own voice in his movies for the German market), and it wouldn't have been seemly to have people snicker at his accent. (Jimmy Carter had a hard enough time getting people to take him seriously in the mid-70s because of his accent, imagine if he had sounded like [[Lucas Black]] and had been running 40 years earlier!) —[[User:Angr|'''An''']][[User talk:Angr|''gr'']] 12:24, 7 October 2008 (UTC) |
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*[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Australia|WikiProject Australia]] |
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:::: For me as a German from the northern part of Germany there is a slight southern accent but it is (nearly) standard speech. Except for the R: He rolled it more than it is usual. It is sometimes even possible to hear it in words which are usually not pronounced with R. I would say it is a kind of [[hypercorrection]]. However, I am not a linguist. ;-) -- [[User:Heuler06|heuler06]] ([[User talk:Heuler06|talk]]) 19:15, 7 October 2008 (UTC) |
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;Australian state projects |
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*[[Wikipedia:WikiProject New South Wales|WikiProject New South Wales]] |
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*[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Northern Territory|WikiProject Northern Territory]] |
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*[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Tasmania|WikiProject Tasmania]] |
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*[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Victoria|WikiProject Victoria]] |
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*[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Western Australia|WikiProject Western Australia]] |
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;Other projects covering parts of QLD |
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*[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Brisbane|WikiProject Brisbane]] |
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*[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Townsville|WikiProject Townsville]] |
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</div> |
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{{col-2}} |
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<div style="font-size:90%"> |
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;Overlapping related projects |
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*[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Australian biota|WikiProject Australian biota]] |
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*[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Australian crime|WikiProject Australian crime]] |
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*[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Australian history|WikiProject Australian history]] |
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*[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Australian history/Exploration|WikiProject Australian history/Exploration]] |
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*[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Australian law|WikiProject Australian law]] |
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*[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Australian literature|WikiProject Australian literature]] |
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*[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Australian maritime history|WikiProject Australian maritime history]] |
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*[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Australian military history task force|Australian military history task force]] |
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*[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Australian places|WikiProject Australian places]] |
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*[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Australian politics|WikiProject Australian politics]] |
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*[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Australian sports|WikiProject Australian sports]] |
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</div> |
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{{col-end}} |
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==Participants== |
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:::::I have noticed that Austrians of right wing leanings tend to use a rather characteristic mode of enunciation, somewhat reminiscent of Hitler´s diction. The basic elements of this are a rather clipped speaking mode, a clear distinction between individual words and the absence of soft consonants, which are pronounced as hard. |
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People who wish to participate in [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Queensland|WikiProject Queensland]] please add your name below. |
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:::::Bear in mind that Hitler was using language in a rather agressive way. Most likely he would have chosen consciously to avoid many aspects of Austrian German which, by simple phonetics, indicate some sloppy laid back laissez-faire attitude of generic laziness. It´s a bit like comparing a melodious Irish lilt to the language of Margaret Thatcher. --[[User:Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM|Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM]] ([[User talk:Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM|talk]]) 23:24, 7 October 2008 (UTC) |
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<div style="float: right; background:#e3e3e3"><center>Userbox: {{tl|User WP QLD}} - 2 options</center>{{User WP QLD}}<br/><br/><br/>{{User WP QLD|flag}}</div> |
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*{{user|Mattinbgn}} |
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==Career== |
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*{{user|Orderinchaos}} |
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'CAREER' which is the most important aspect for each and every person. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/123.237.67.97|123.237.67.97]] ([[User talk:123.237.67.97|talk]]) 14:28, 7 October 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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*{{user|WikiTownsvillian}} - from Townsville obviously, focus mostly on [[Townsville, Queensland|Townsville]] and [[Palm Island, Queensland|Palm]] but happy to help wherever. |
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:Sorry, can you formulate your question more clearly, please? —[[User:Angr|'''An''']][[User talk:Angr|''gr'']] 14:42, 7 October 2008 (UTC) |
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*{{user|Dihydrogen Monoxide}} - From Brisbane, but I love the state. |
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::If you're asking what is the most important aspect of a person's career, that varies widely from person to person. Some people do jobs for the money, others do it for job satisfaction, others do it to gain advancement in their chosen trade or profession. Some do it because they can't think of anything else to do. Really it is not possible to give a straight answer to this question. --[[User:Richardrj|Richardrj]] [[User talk:Richardrj|<sup>talk </sup>]][[Special:Emailuser/Richardrj|<sup>email</sup>]] 14:45, 7 October 2008 (UTC) |
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*{{user|Bongomanrae}} |
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*{{user|Thuringowacityrep}} - From the former [[City of Thuringowa]] (now Townsville) and work mostly on local articles however i have started others and try to keep them all up to date. |
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*{{user|Shiftchange}} |
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*{{user|Bruceanthro}} |
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*{{user|Madilayn}} |
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*{{user|L.Wadsworth}} |
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*{{user|Be best}} |
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*{{user|Tennis expert}} |
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*{{user|Travellingcari}} - no longer local, but QLD has a big place in my heart and I love working on the articles. Found this project by accident via [[Federation Walk]]. |
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*{{user|Toytown Mafia}} - going to be working on some of the islands. |
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*{{user|Das_nbs}} - from Brisbane, Mareeba, [[Tolga, Queensland]], (Atherton Tableland), Cairns, Buderim and Maroochydore. |
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*{{user|jedikid5}} - Focus on Gold Coast, geography, Theme Parks among others. |
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[[Category:WikiProject Queensland| ]] |
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== France and Spain == |
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[[Category:Australia-related WikiProjects|Queensland]] |
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[[Category:WikiProjects participating in Wikipedia 1.0 assessments|Queensland]] |
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What do you call a Spaniard living in or born in France? Thanks, '''[[User:Grsz11|<font color="black">Grsz</font>]][[User talk:Grsz11|<b><font color="red"><sup>X</sup></font></b>]]''' 16:26, 7 October 2008 (UTC) |
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:As far as I can tell, a Spaniard born in France is called "French". Consider [[Carlos Da Cruz]], [[Francis Cabrel]] (who has 100% Italian ancestry, but is French), and others. A Spaniard living in France could either be called "Spanish" or "French" (depending on how much he had adopted French lifestyle), or "Ibero-French", if you really wanted to get creative. [[User:Jade Knight|The Jade Knight]] ([[User talk:Jade Knight|talk]]) 18:24, 7 October 2008 (UTC) |
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::How about as far as ancestry goes? Like African-Americans. '''[[User:Grsz11|<font color="black">Grsz</font>]][[User talk:Grsz11|<b><font color="red"><sup>X</sup></font></b>]]''' 19:04, 7 October 2008 (UTC) |
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:::You may as well ask, "What do you call a person of European ancestry living in the USA ?" I don´t think there is a [[demonym]] for those 300 odd million. Of course, [[odd]] refers to the 305 million and not to any other national [[quality]]. --[[User:Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM|Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM]] ([[User talk:Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM|talk]]) 20:40, 7 October 2008 (UTC) |
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::::I don't think it has to be that hard. If it was important to say that a Spanish person wasn't actually born in Spain, but in France, you could call him a "French-born Spaniard". -- [[User:JackofOz|JackofOz]] ([[User talk:JackofOz|talk]]) 21:10, 7 October 2008 (UTC) |
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:In the United States, [[Hyphenated American]] terms like [[African American]], [[Irish American]], [[Indian American]] are common, but often contentious. Is there any other pair of countries/regions X and Y where immigrants from country Y to country X, and perhaps their descendants, are called "Y-ish X-ians" (in whatever language)? [[User:Jnestorius|jnestorius]]<sup>([[User talk:Jnestorius|talk]])</sup> 22:30, 7 October 2008 (UTC) |
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I'll give you the text I had in mind, and just let me know if this most recent version sounds okay: |
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''"'''Gipsy Kings''' are a music group from [[Arles]] and [[Montpellier]], [[France]]. Though from France, they are [[Spain|Spanish]] [[Roma people|Romani]] musicians as their parents fled Spain during the [[Spanish Civil War]]. They are known for bringing [[Rumba Catalana]], a [[pop music|pop]]-oriented version of traditional [[flamenco]] music, to worldwide audiences. Their music has a particular [[Rumba Flamenca]] style, with [[Pop music|pop]] influences; many songs of the Gipsy Kings fit [[social dance]]s, such as [[Salsa (dance)|Salsa]] and [[Rumba (dance)|Rumba]]. Their music has been described as a place where "Spanish flamenco and [[Romani]] rhapsody meet salsa funk"."'' '''[[User:Grsz11|<font color="black">Grsz</font>]][[User talk:Grsz11|<b><font color="red"><sup>X</sup></font></b>]]''' 22:41, 7 October 2008 (UTC) |
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:I would replace the second sentence with "Their parents were ''[[Roma in Spain|gitanos]]'' ([[Roma people|Roma]]) who fled [[Spain]] during the [[Spanish Civil War]]." [[User:Jnestorius|jnestorius]]<sup>([[User talk:Jnestorius|talk]])</sup> 23:52, 7 October 2008 (UTC) |
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::Ha, if I had came across that page before this would have been a lot easier. Thanks, '''[[User:Grsz11|<font color="black">Grsz</font>]][[User talk:Grsz11|<b><font color="red"><sup>X</sup></font></b>]]''' 02:22, 8 October 2008 (UTC) |
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:France operates citizenship in a [[Jus soli]] way as I understand it, so a permanent citizen in France is French. Unlike, say, Germany which has a blood-line (jus sanguine? spelling) basis - though I think even they have moved away from that citizenship model. Basically everybody who lives in France permanently is (officially) French I think. [[Special:Contributions/194.221.133.226|194.221.133.226]] ([[User talk:194.221.133.226|talk]]) 10:26, 8 October 2008 (UTC) |
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::Living is France is not sufficient to be French, you need to request the nationality to get it, and it could be refused (but rarely is). Being born in France is sufficient to be French. --[[User:Lgriot|Lgriot]] ([[User talk:Lgriot|talk]]) 06:37, 10 October 2008 (UTC) |
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== Prefix == |
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What's the difference in the meaning of the prefixes "hemi" and "semi", and how do you know when to use which? Thanks.[[Special:Contributions/92.2.212.124|92.2.212.124]] ([[User talk:92.2.212.124|talk]]) 20:21, 7 October 2008 (UTC) |
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:They both mean 'half'. 'Hemi' comes from Greek; 'semi' comes from Latin. Ultimately, they come from the same root in [[Proto-Indo-European]]. It makes sense to make compounds from the same root, e.g. 'hemicycle' and 'semicircle' (although the latter does have a Greek version as well). If the second part of the compound is an English root, use 'semi', e.g. 'semiquaver'. What about 'demi'? That's another question. — [[User:Garzo|Gareth Hughes]] ([[User talk:Garzo|talk]]) 20:29, 7 October 2008 (UTC) |
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::Thanks, although I don't know what "It makes sense to make compounds from the same root" means. I thought of it because you get a '''hemi'''sphere but a '''semi'''circle. Anyway, thanks.[[Special:Contributions/92.2.212.124|92.2.212.124]] ([[User talk:92.2.212.124|talk]]) 20:34, 7 October 2008 (UTC) |
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:::In hemisphere the noun ''sphere'' is a derivative of a Greek root, thus the Greek prefix ''hemi'' is used. In semicircle the word comes from the Latin ''circulus'' and is prefixed with the Latin ''semi''. It is comparable to WP articles using UK English for British entries and US English for American topics. --[[User:Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM|Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM]] ([[User talk:Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM|talk]]) 20:48, 7 October 2008 (UTC) |
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::::Sometimes they're combined, as in [[Sixty-fourth note|hemidemisemiquaver]], and the principle of keeping like with like in terms of linguistic origin goes out the door. (I particularly like the Polish translation: ''sześćdziesięcioczwórkowa'' !! Imagine that on a spelling bee. ) -- [[User:JackofOz|JackofOz]] ([[User talk:JackofOz|talk]]) 21:05, 7 October 2008 (UTC) |
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: It strikes me that ''semi-'' is preferred for modifying adjectives, even of Greek origin: ''semi-autonomous''. —[[User:Tamfang|Tamfang]] ([[User talk:Tamfang|talk]]) 05:57, 8 October 2008 (UTC) |
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So without reaserching the origins of a word before I add a prefix to it, how do I decide between them? Or should I just use "semi" as a safe bet? Thanks[[Special:Contributions/92.2.212.124|92.2.212.124]] ([[User talk:92.2.212.124|talk]]) 20:54, 7 October 2008 (UTC) |
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:It´s got to be hemi-, semi- or demi-. If you can´t find it in any of these three places, it may be a neologism or a dictionary with a few pages missing. Mind you, there is the term [[halfwit]], so it may not be that easy. Wit may be Proto-Germanic, but it also may be related to the Latin verb ''video'' :) |
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:PS: Finally, I discovered a red link I am perfectly equipped to turn into a featured article. Eureka, my credentials in halfwittery are impeccable!--[[User:Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM|Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM]] ([[User talk:Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM|talk]]) 21:45, 7 October 2008 (UTC) |
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::I'm not sure about Latin video, but I've certainly read that wit is related to classical Greek oida ('I know'). It's not obvious from the first person singular, but first plural is idmen, and this would earlier have been pronounced widmen, so you can see the connection. A bit off-topic, but I thought you'd be interested! [[User:Maid Marion|Maid Marion]] ([[User talk:Maid Marion|talk]]) 11:31, 8 October 2008 (UTC) |
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::I disagree with "It´s got to be hemi-, semi- or demi-." It could well be ''half-'', especially if you are [[nonce word|coining a once-off word]]. I don't think ''demi'' is [[productivity (linguistics)|productive]] in English any more; it only comes in French loanwords. And ''hemi-'' is confined to learned, mainly scientific/medical, words, where Greek still thrives. [[User:Jnestorius|jnestorius]]<sup>([[User talk:Jnestorius|talk]])</sup> 22:40, 7 October 2008 (UTC) |
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:::I agree with Jnestorius: use either 'semi-' or 'half-' unless there is an established word (like 'hemisphere'). --[[User:ColinFine|ColinFine]] ([[User talk:ColinFine|talk]]) 23:40, 7 October 2008 (UTC) |
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::::I think we should be like Ashton Kutcher and use [[Demi Moore|'demi-' more]]. --[[User:LarryMac|<font color="#3EA99F">LarryMac</font>]][[User talk:LarryMac|<font color="#3EA99F"><small> | Talk</small></font>]] 12:28, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
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= October 8 = |
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==Shark== |
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Both the [[shark]] and the [[Yucatec Maya language]] articles contain the claim that the word "shark" may come from the Maya language. The claim seems to be based on an unsourced and rather casual remark made in Michael D. Coe's book ''Breaking the Maya Code'' (I have the book). I wonder if anyone here is aware of any scholarly sources relating to the supposed etymology. Cheers.--[[User:K.C. Tang|K.C. Tang]] ([[User talk:K.C. Tang|talk]]) 08:17, 8 October 2008 (UTC) |
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The Latin "sharkus" meaning rough skin is the most likely origin according to the discovery website. |
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http://www.discovery.com/stories/nature/sharkweek2000/sharkweek2000.html |
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Hope this helps. |
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[[User:Wikisaver62|Wikisaver62]] ([[User talk:Wikisaver62|talk]]) 10:05, 8 October 2008 (UTC) |
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:Even without looking in my dictionary I can promise you there is no such word as "sharkus" in Latin. —[[User:Angr|'''An''']][[User talk:Angr|''gr'']] 09:16, 8 October 2008 (UTC) |
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::::Re ''sharkus''. What is it about this combination of letters that makes it obviously not a Latin word? Just wondering. [[User:Wanderer57|Wanderer57]] ([[User talk:Wanderer57|talk]]) 17:03, 8 October 2008 (UTC) |
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:::::1) Latin had no "sh" sound. 2) Latin orthography had no "sh" spelling. 2) In Latin orthography, the letter "k" tended to be used only in a very few words (almost always before the vowel "a"), as in "Kalendae" (the 1st day of a month), etc. [[User:AnonMoos|AnonMoos]] ([[User talk:AnonMoos|talk]]) 17:33, 8 October 2008 (UTC) |
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::::::I wonder if someone could conact the discovery channel and tell them how wrong they are (I was wondering about whether 'sharkus' was real or not too). [[User:Wikisaver62|Wikisaver62]] ([[User talk:Wikisaver62|talk]]) 17:44, 8 October 2008 (UTC) |
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::::::: To be honest, I can't even find the word "sharkus" on the page you linked to. Of course, on my computer (with three different browsers) the entire right-hand side of that page is just black. —[[User:Angr|'''An''']][[User talk:Angr|''gr'']] 18:11, 8 October 2008 (UTC) |
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::::::::The page was a quiz with four possible etymologies of "shark". "Sharkus" was the first option; another was that it comes from "sharp", and two others I had never heard of before. I couldn't get the page to load the answer but I think Wikisaver may have misread or misinterpreted what he was looking at. [[User:Adam Bishop|Adam Bishop]] ([[User talk:Adam Bishop|talk]]) 00:56, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
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:::::::::Actually, it was "sharcus", not "sharkus". But I still doubt it's a Latin word. -- [[User:JackofOz|JackofOz]] ([[User talk:JackofOz|talk]]) 01:16, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
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::[http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=shark&searchmode=none here] is an etymological alternative. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/194.171.56.13|194.171.56.13]] ([[User talk:194.171.56.13|talk]]) 10:15, 8 October 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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:::I don't believe there's a convincing etymology for the word (actually I don't believe there're convincing etymologies for most words); I'm just curious about how people came up with the (dubious) Maya etymology, and I'm rather inclined to remove the claim in the relevant artitcles, but it's safer to ask the experts here first.--[[User:K.C. Tang|K.C. Tang]] ([[User talk:K.C. Tang|talk]]) 10:32, 8 October 2008 (UTC) |
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::''Sarx'' (σαρξ), root "sark-" (not "shark"), is the Greek (not Latin) word for flesh (not "rough skin") , but I don't know of any plausible path by which this ancient Greek word could have acquired the current pronunciation and meaning of the word "shark" in English... [[User:AnonMoos|AnonMoos]] ([[User talk:AnonMoos|talk]]) 12:33, 8 October 2008 (UTC) |
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:The ''[[OED]]'' says "Of obscure origin. The word seems to have been introduced by the sailors of Captain (afterwards Sir John) Hawkins's expedition, who brought home a specimen which was exhibited in London in 1569. The source from which they obtained the word has not been ascertained. Cf. Ger. dial. (Austrian) schirk sturgeon: see SHIRK n.2. The conjecture of Skeat that the name of the fish is derived from SHARK v.1 is untenable; the earliest example of the vb. is c 1596, and the passage alludes to the fish." [[User:BrainyBabe|BrainyBabe]] ([[User talk:BrainyBabe|talk]]) 19:03, 8 October 2008 (UTC) |
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::Naturally I've consulted the ''OED'', as well as using [[JSTOR]] to search relevant articles, but to no avail. The more I search, the more the supposed Maya etymology looks fishy.--[[User:K.C. Tang|K.C. Tang]] ([[User talk:K.C. Tang|talk]]) 02:12, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
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:::Also, consider the Homeric fragmental epos, [[The Hunting of the Snark|The ''Hunting of the σnαρξ'']]. The mysterious disapperance of Homer and all trace of him when composing this, his last, poem, has given rise to the theory that the very σnαρξ of the title was a Boojum...... --[[User:Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM|Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM]] ([[User talk:Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM|talk]]) 21:43, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
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===Related question (sort of) about sarcoidosis=== |
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The above question got me making some connections. Shark is supposedly related to words meaning skin or flesh. That made me think of skin diseases, and in particular [[sarcoidosis]]. According to our article, it's derived from σαρξ (sarx), meaning flesh. Yet it can occur in any organ, not necessarily in the flesh specifically. I think of it as a skin disease, because I had an episode of it some years ago, and I had [[erythema nodosum]] and lymph gland inflammation. My flesh was unaffected, but the skin of my shins was red and I had joint pain and fever. (It would probably be diagnosed as [[Löfgren syndrome]] these days, given the symptoms I had.) So I'm wondering why they named the disease after the word for flesh, which seems to be not particularly relevant. And do sharks ever get sarcoidosis? -- [[User:JackofOz|JackofOz]] ([[User talk:JackofOz|talk]]) 13:13, 8 October 2008 (UTC) |
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:The -oid- suffix usually means "looking like", so if the physical manifestation of the disease merely ''looked like'' extra flesh where it shouldn't be to the first person who described the disease, he could have called it sarcoidosis for that reason alone. —[[User:Angr|'''An''']][[User talk:Angr|''gr'']] 13:38, 8 October 2008 (UTC) |
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::That makes sense, Angr. -- [[User:JackofOz|JackofOz]] ([[User talk:JackofOz|talk]]) 21:01, 8 October 2008 (UTC) |
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:(e/c)Don't know about Sharks and sarcs, but as for the diseases naming, it was initially described around 1890-1900 by a few different Dermatologists ([[Ernest Henri Besnier]], [[Cæsar Peter Møller Boeck]] and others). Being dermatologists, and living in an age of a less holistic approach to medicine, they would have concentrated on the skin manifestations of the disease. The name stuck and hasn't been changed. Old names tend to stick, while newer ones get challenged as a result of new research: [[Myalgic_encephalomyelitis#Nomenclature|like ME/CFS]].[[User:Fribbler|Fribbler]] ([[User talk:Fribbler|talk]]) 13:40, 8 October 2008 (UTC) |
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::OK, but if they were focussing on issues with the skin, why wouldn't they have named it after whatever the Greek word for skin is, rather then the Greek word for flesh? -- [[User:JackofOz|JackofOz]] ([[User talk:JackofOz|talk]]) 21:01, 8 October 2008 (UTC) |
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:::If you know what a dermatologist studies, and what dermatitis is, you can guess what the Greek word for skin is... ;-) —[[User:Angr|'''An''']][[User talk:Angr|''gr'']] 21:16, 8 October 2008 (UTC) |
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::::Dermoidosis? :) Actually, on reflection, they may have coined the word [[sarcoid]] first, then extended it to sarcoidosis. Our disambig page suggests that sarcoids occur only in horses and related animals, but that's not true. (Or, maybe I really am [http://derbyfever.com/hr/runtime/nwhoiam.asp?name=jackofoz a horse] after all.) -- [[User:JackofOz|JackofOz]] ([[User talk:JackofOz|talk]]) 21:24, 8 October 2008 (UTC) |
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: It wouldn't be the only example of a medical term that doesn't mean what it seems to mean; usually because the term outlived the theory under which it was coined. —[[User:Tamfang|Tamfang]] ([[User talk:Tamfang|talk]]) 18:13, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
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==Grammar question== |
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For the sake of this experiment my company is called Blue Sky. Which of the following is correct and why: |
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*Blue Sky supply the food ''or'' |
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*Blue Sky supplies the food. |
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Thanks for any help! --[[Special:Contributions/217.227.113.167|217.227.113.167]] ([[User talk:217.227.113.167|talk]]) 18:59, 8 October 2008 (UTC) |
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:It could be either. If you want to use British English (or a related dialect), the first could work. If you want to use American English, the second would be preferable. See [[American and British English differences]]. --[[User:LarryMac|<font color="#3EA99F">LarryMac</font>]][[User talk:LarryMac|<font color="#3EA99F"><small> | Talk</small></font>]] 19:14, 8 October 2008 (UTC) |
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::You also need to remain consistent, meaning, if you treat it as a singular, then you have to use singular pronouns elsewhere in the same text, e.g. |
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::*Blue Sky supplies the food ...... ''it also does'' X |
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::*<u>not</u> Blue Sky supplies the food ... ''they also do'' X |
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::*or Blue Sky supply the food ... it also does X. -- [[User:JackofOz|JackofOz]] ([[User talk:JackofOz|talk]]) 20:55, 8 October 2008 (UTC) |
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:::One right out of three! The first one is correct in formal North American English, as you might see in a business report or legal document. But the second one is not wrong; it's standard informal North American English, as would be used in a conversation or casual writing. In the third one, on the other hand, you mean "they also do X". --Anonymous, 21:47 UTC, October 8, 2008. |
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::::No, I meant what I wrote. No. 3 was another example of what not to write, the reverse of No. 2. But you're right that the rule applies to formal writing, and you can get away with less rigour in other contexts. -- [[User:JackofOz|JackofOz]] ([[User talk:JackofOz|talk]]) 21:58, 8 October 2008 (UTC) |
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:::::As to #2, it's not "getting away with" something, it's idiomatic usage. Outside of formal contexts I'd say #1 is wrong. As to #3, sorry I misunderstood your intention with the not/or thing. --Anonymous, 03:45 UTC, October 9, 2008. |
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::::::Your views are becoming more firm. First you said #1 is correct in formal contexts; now you're saying it's wrong in any other context. I don't subscribe to the view that one must always adopt the idiom of whoever one happens to be with. What if they had the same philosophy? Nobody would know how to talk at all, for fear of getting it wrong. #1 may not be the dominant version in informal contexts, but that doesn't make it "wrong" to use it in such contexts. -- [[User:JackofOz|JackofOz]] ([[User talk:JackofOz|talk]]) 06:02, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
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:::::::I'm saying that there exists a field of usage (milieu, dialect, community, register, call it what you will) in which #1 is wrong, in just the same way as there exist fields of usage where only one of "center" and "centre" is a correct spelling. Obviously other people have conflicting usages. Your comment about "getting away with" appeared to be denying that such usage existed. --Anon, 18:12 UTC, October 9, 2008. |
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::::::::Not at all. That phrase actually acknowledges that deviances from some "norm" (for lack of a better word) do actually occur, because otherwise there'd be nothing to get away ''with'' (or with which to get away, if one prefers). To get away with something in a linguistic context is my way of saying it would be generally acceptable, although if you look hard enough you'd find a copy editor who'd change it (and you mightn't have to look all that hard). I agree that you could find a particular milieu, dialect, community or register where #1 would definitely be out of place. But to say it's wrong for ''all'' such contexts is itself a wrong statement. -- [[User:JackofOz|JackofOz]] ([[User talk:JackofOz|talk]]) 19:03, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
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== Listas repr. == |
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If I switch my iPod to the Spanish language setting, "Playlists" are called "Listas repr." What is "repr." short for? I can't seem to find any words that would make sense in context. [[User:Jeffjon|jeffjon]] ([[User talk:Jeffjon|talk]]) 19:16, 8 October 2008 (UTC) |
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:According to a Google search [http://www.google.es/search?hl=es&q=listas+repr.&meta=lr%3Dlang_es], it's short for ''lista de reproducción''. It seems to be somewhat idiomatic in Spanish, so that's why it doesn't make much literal sense, other than the meaning connection between ''reproducción'' and recording, replay, etc.--[[User:El aprendelenguas|el '''Apre'''l]] (<sup>[[Special:Contributions/El aprendelenguas|facta]]</sup>-<sub>[[User talk:El aprendelenguas|facienda]]</sub>) 01:43, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
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::Ah, you'd think it would have occurred to me to do my googling on the spanish-language site. Thanks, [[User:Jeffjon|jeffjon]] ([[User talk:Jeffjon|talk]]) 13:02, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
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:::Actually, '''reproducir''' is the most suitable translation of ''play'' in this usage. The ''re-'' prefix is associated with the idea of producing back the sound. Fair enough, this meaning is not recorded in the current edition of the DRAE, though it will appear in the [http://buscon.rae.es/draeI/SrvltObtenerHtml?origen=RAE&IDLEMA=61582&NEDIC=Si 23rd edition of the dictionary]: "Hacer que se vea u oiga el contenido de un producto visual o sonoro." [[User:Pallida_Mors_76|<span style="background:#000;border:#c3c0bf;color: #fff;border:1px solid #999">Pallida </span>]][[User talk:Pallida_Mors_76|<span style="background:#fff;border:#c3c0bf;color:#000;border:1px solid #999"> Mors</span>]] 21:53, 10 October 2008 (UTC) |
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= October 9 = |
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== ENGLISH == |
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would i say Corey has been with the company six months longer than I or me? <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/98.134.212.121|98.134.212.121]] ([[User talk:98.134.212.121|talk]]) 03:45, 9 October 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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:Formally, it is "than I": ''he has'' longer than ''I have'': since "I" is the subject of the verb "have" (even if you don't actually say the have), it should be "I", not "me". However, colloquially it's ''than me'': pronouns take the object form after any connecting word, even "and", in colloquial English ("John and me went to the store", etc.). However, you can only say "than me" if you do ''not'' say the assumed verb "have". [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 06:16, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
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:(ec)A pedant would say "longer than I" because it's short for "longer than I have been". Some idiolects may still prefer it. But in almost all other circumstances, "longer than me" is acceptable. It's completely idiomatic; so much so, that to say "longer than I" would make most people wonder which planet you were from. And that's not the point of communication. -- [[User:JackofOz|JackofOz]] ([[User talk:JackofOz|talk]]) 06:21, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
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:Someone better at pedantry (me, say) would recognize the "formal" analysis as wrong, because it is based on reasoning in the wrong direction. It assumes that because "than" is a conjunction in "longer than I have been", it must also be a conjunction in the shorter expression. But usage determines what is proper. "Longer than me" is, as Jack says, perfectly acceptable to most people, from which we conclude (1) that it is correct, and (2) that "than" can also be a preposition. And if you look in dictionaries that's generally what you'll find -- try www.onelook.com to check several of them. --Anonymous, 18:15 UTC, October 9, 2008. |
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::Again I must take issue with you on the question of right vs. wrong. You speak as if this is (were) an absolute. It's not. The prescriptivist school of grammar, while acknowledging that it's rarely encountered in everyday speech, would not outlaw "longer than I". I was certainly taught that version in school (and then promptly ignored it except for homework and test questions). It is very redolent of Jeeves and his ilk, so although his ilk is a dying breed, it's not as if it's utterly unheard of in practice, and there would still be some people who prefer it. Pernickety ageing school teachers, for example. It's certainly encountered in novels by Jane Austen and her ilk. It's become old-hat; that doesn't make it "wrong". The descriptivist school would definitely support "longer than me", because that's what almost everyone actually says these days. -- [[User:JackofOz|JackofOz]] ([[User talk:JackofOz|talk]]) 18:45, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
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:::"Taking issue"? Jack, I have no disagreement with anything you just said. --Anon, 00:56 UTC, October 10, 2008. |
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::::Sorry, I read the sentence "Someone better at pedantry .....", and the one after it, as referring to my previous statement. -- [[User:JackofOz|JackofOz]] ([[User talk:JackofOz|talk]]) 03:43, 10 October 2008 (UTC) |
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== Samuel Segev == |
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He is an Israeli reporter and writer. Please let me know how his name is pronounced in Israel. Many thanks. --[[User:Omidinist|Omidinist]] ([[User talk:Omidinist|talk]]) 07:35, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
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:Unfortunately, [[User:Deborahjay]], who's normally responsible for questions about Israeli Hebrew on the ref desk, hasn't edited Wikipedia in over two weeks. My guess is {{IPA|[ʃɛmuˈɛl ˈsɛgɛv]}} (roughly {{respelled|shem-oo-{{sc|el}} {{sc|seg}}-ev}}), but that's really nothing more than an educated guess. —[[User:Angr|'''An''']][[User talk:Angr|''gr'']] 12:58, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
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::''(Here [[User:Deborahjay|I]] am, checking in from a furlough in the States during this holiday period, with only intermittent Internet access and lacking a Hebrew-enabled keyboard; thanks, [[User talk:Omidinist|Omidinist]] for the e-mail head's up and to [[User:Angr|Angr]] for the acknowledgement...)'' I'm not familiar with the named individual, rather than the better-known [[Tom Segev]], a historian (not reporter, though his remarks and articles are often published in the Israeli press, notably [[Haaretz]]). |
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::* SEgev (both vowels a "short e" - I can't do IPA today) is a [[Segev|contemporary Israeli surname]], i.e. not one with [[Jewish diaspora|Diaspora]] roots. |
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::* SAmuel [sic] would be pronounced as in [[English language|English]], if Mr. Segev indeed spells it this way at home as abroad - ? Alternatively: SHMUel, a common Israeli first name of biblical origin. (see below) ''-- [[User:Deborahjay|Deborahjay]] ([[User talk:Deborahjay|talk]]) 18:06, 9 October 2008 (UTC)'' |
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::I think {{IPA|[ʃmuˈɛl]}} (shmoo-EL) is more likely. Actually, our [[Hebrew phonology]] article transcribes Hebrew mid vowels as close-mid rather than open-mid, so that makes it {{IPA|[ʃmuˈel ˈsegev]}}. — [[User:EmilJ|Emil]] [[User talk:EmilJ|J.]] 13:13, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
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:::[[User:EmilJ|Emil]], I'd say this is true in the pronunciation of Israeli Hebrew ''words''—however, names are generally an exception, primarily (I suspect) to distinguish them from the word ''per se''. (e.g. the word "yaFA" vs. the name "YAfa".) The case of SHMUel shows the characteristic shift of accent to the penultimate syllable and shortening (to schwa) the vowel of the antepenultimate (the initial letter "shin"). ''-- [[User:Deborahjay|Deborahjay]] ([[User talk:Deborahjay|talk]]) 18:06, 9 October 2008 (UTC)'' |
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::::Deborah, I'm glad you decided to pop in, even though it's Yom Kippur! Emil is actually talking about the quality of the vowel (open-mid {{IPA|[ɛ]}} as in "dress" vs. close-mid [e] as in French "été"), not about the location of stress. Both he and I assumed the stress would be on the last syllable, so it's interesting to here it isn't. I knew the Yiddish pronunciation would be SHMU-el with no vowel between the sh and the m and with stress on the first syllable, but I didn't know the Israeli Hebrew pronunciation would be the same. —[[User:Angr|'''An''']][[User talk:Angr|''gr'']] 19:04, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
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Good to hear from Deborahjay. And thanks for all suggestions. Well, I thought Mr. Segev might be a Russian emigré in Israel. In that case, his surname would be pronounced like ''sigof''. He is a Middle East correspondent and the author of some books, including ''Mivtsa Yakhin: aliyatam Ha-hashait Shel Yehude Maroko Le-Yisrael''. --[[User:Omidinist|Omidinist]] ([[User talk:Omidinist|talk]]) 04:49, 10 October 2008 (UTC) |
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==中國人如何學好英語？== |
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流利得像你們一樣--[[User:Wmrwiki|Wmrwiki]] ([[User talk:Wmrwiki|talk]]) 13:04, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
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:多看、多聽、多說、多練，就是如此簡單而已。 [[User:Aas217|Aas217]] ([[User talk:Aas217|talk]]) 16:10, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
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::学好英文的人应该常常根说英文的人说话。如果你主宰的城市有外国人，跟他们做朋友。别只为了练习英文跟他们做朋友，可是除了跟他们说话，联系英文，没有很多好方法学好英文。也能用skype还是msn做朋友。有一点更难，可是如果没有外国人跟他们说话，就网上找到人联系英文也可以。 Aas217写的也很重要的。看英文电影，听英文音乐，看英文书，都也可能把你的英文听读写说的琉璃提高。 [[User:Steewi|Steewi]] ([[User talk:Steewi|talk]]) 02:23, 10 October 2008 (UTC) |
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:::What they said. All I can understand in the header of the question is "Chinese people" (中國人) and "English language" (英語). —[[User:Angr|'''An''']][[User talk:Angr|''gr'']] 05:11, 10 October 2008 (UTC) |
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::It is asking how Chinese people should study English. And the answer is to make friends who will speak English, and get on Skype and MSN, watch English films, listen to music, read books, you know, the usual.--[[User:Givnan|ChokinBako]] ([[User talk:Givnan|talk]]) 21:58, 10 October 2008 (UTC) |
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== English Language Diagram or Graph == |
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Hi all. I am looking for a diagram or a graph on the history of the English language; from it's origination to modern English. Do you know where I can locate this in Wiki? --[[User:Emyn ned|Emyn ned]] ([[User talk:Emyn ned|talk]]) 14:56, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
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:If we had one, I suppose it would be at [[History of the English language]], but there's no diagram or graph there. —[[User:Angr|'''An''']][[User talk:Angr|''gr'']] 15:01, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
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::However, if you go to Google Images and search for "indo-european languages", you should be able to find a suitable diagram. --Anonymous, 18:22 UTC, October 9, 2008. |
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: What do you want this chart to show? If all you need is the sequence ''[[Old English]] → [[Middle English]] → [[Early Modern English]] → [[Modern English]]'' that shouldn't be hard to whip up, though I wonder why you'd want a picture. Do you want to show the kinship of English to other languages? By "its origination" do you mean the point at which Old English ceased to be part of the Low West Germanic dialect continuum, or something else? Are you looking for something to show the inflow of borrowed vocabulary from Norman etc. as tributaries to a river? —[[User:Tamfang|Tamfang]] ([[User talk:Tamfang|talk]]) 18:38, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
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Hi, Anonymous had answered my question and directed me where I needed to go. Thank you everyone for your help..--[[User:Emyn ned|Emyn ned]] ([[User talk:Emyn ned|talk]]) 13:53, 10 October 2008 (UTC) |
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== Which is correct American English? == |
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Which is correct American English? |
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A. We haven't bought anything yet. |
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B. We haven't bought<b>en</b> anything yet. |
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Thanks. [[User:Ike9898|ike9898]] ([[User talk:Ike9898|talk]]) 15:40, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
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:A. Boughten is not a standard English word. --[[User:LarryMac|<font color="#3EA99F">LarryMac</font>]][[User talk:LarryMac|<font color="#3EA99F"><small> | Talk</small></font>]] 15:43, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
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::Thanks. [[User:Ike9898|ike9898]] ([[User talk:Ike9898|talk]]) 15:48, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
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:I would just mention: agree that ''boughten'' wouldn't be correct as a verb in standard [[U.S. English]]—but I can recall encountering this word as an adjective meaning "store-bought" (vs. homemade). Such usage is likely regional, though offhand I couldn't say where. ''-- [[User:Deborahjay|Deborahjay]] ([[User talk:Deborahjay|talk]]) 18:45, 9 October 2008 (UTC)'' |
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:::It is, surprise, surprise (as I never heard it), an entry in the Merriam-Webster on line plus a few more. The use mentioned by Deborah also turns up frequently. For all I know, this is perfectly valid US English. Maybe some native speakers of USian could clarify if it is "merely" colloquial or regional.--[[User:Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM|Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM]] ([[User talk:Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM|talk]]) 19:36, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
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::::Note that the M-W entry says it is "chiefly dialect." Also note that M-W are usage sluts. --[[User:LarryMac|<font color="#3EA99F">LarryMac</font>]][[User talk:LarryMac|<font color="#3EA99F"><small> | Talk</small></font>]] 21:18, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
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:::::Which is a good thing, IMHO. --'''[[User:Kjoonlee|Kjoon]]'''[[User talk:Kjoonlee|lee]] 02:45, 10 October 2008 (UTC) |
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== Right grammar? == |
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Hello, |
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Could you please tell me if this kind of sentence is good english? (I don't mean if it's ok, I mean, is it really correct and nice-sounding?) |
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"Some healthy cells may be observed whose somata are on the surface on the slice" [somata = the bodies of the cells] |
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Thanks! |
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:The nested clauses make the sentance hard to parse. Try a simpler structure "In some healthy cells, the somata may be seen on the surface of the slice" or something like that. Always aim for simpler sentance structure and less words. Compact, easy to follow language is always better than rambling, hard to follow language. Also, use more precise and simpler words where possible (seen vs. observed). --[[User:Jayron32|Jayron32]].[[User talk:Jayron32|<small>talk</small>]].[[Special:Contributions/Jayron32|<small>contribs</small>]] 18:16, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
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:: It's not hard to parse; there's only one subordinate clause – though it is somewhat uncommon style to separate "cells" from "whose". —[[User:Tamfang|Tamfang]] ([[User talk:Tamfang|talk]]) 18:24, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
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: It's not wrong, except it should say "surface ''of'' the slice"; but it can be improved. Does mentioning the somata make a meaningful distinction, i.e. is there a reason you couldn't say "Some healthy cells can be observed on the surface of the slice"? Or do you mean to say that some of the cells (whose somata are) on the surface are healthy, while those ''not'' on the surface are all unhealthy? Or am I misunderstanding the sense of "slice"? —[[User:Tamfang|Tamfang]] ([[User talk:Tamfang|talk]]) 18:24, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
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::I'd use the possessive: "the slice's surface". [[Special:Contributions/207.241.238.217|207.241.238.217]] ([[User talk:207.241.238.217|talk]]) 07:13, 10 October 2008 (UTC) |
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Actually I made a mistake, it's on the surface ''of'' the cell. In fact, the sentence is taken from a scientific book. |
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The part about the somata has to be kept, because it's only the somata (bodies) of the cells that are on the surface of the slice, not the whole cell (we're talking about neurons, so the parts of the cell which are not in the soma are the axon and dendrites). |
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And the word "slice" refers here to a piece of rat's brain that has been cut. |
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: Can the axons and dendrites, which are not on the surface, be seen? If not, I'd say "The somata of some healthy cells can be seen on the surface of the slice." —[[User:Tamfang|Tamfang]] ([[User talk:Tamfang|talk]]) 23:15, 10 October 2008 (UTC) |
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== Pollepel Island == |
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Anyone know how to pronounce this island in the Hudson River? [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 21:45, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
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== neutral toward religion == |
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What would be a good word to describe a person who is neutral toward religion, neither a believer nor an atheist, not even an agnostic, because s/he has not really pondered the theological problem, but who is aware of and interested in the role of religion in society? (I'm not looking for the name of an academic discipline.) --[[User:Halcatalyst|Halcatalyst]] ([[User talk:Halcatalyst|talk]]) 21:59, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
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:A (non-observant) observer, perhaps? -- [[User:JackofOz|JackofOz]] ([[User talk:JackofOz|talk]]) 22:01, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
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::That captures the idea... could there be something more specific? --[[User:Halcatalyst|Halcatalyst]] ([[User talk:Halcatalyst|talk]]) 23:15, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
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::An [[Apatheism|apatheist]]? [[User:Deor|Deor]] ([[User talk:Deor|talk]]) 22:09, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
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:::I'm looking for a word that implies interest but not commitment. --[[User:Halcatalyst|Halcatalyst]] ([[User talk:Halcatalyst|talk]]) 23:15, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
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::::Like a non-academic anthropologist? [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 00:13, 10 October 2008 (UTC) |
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:::::Yes, sort of like that -- but maybe not self-conscious about it. --[[User:Halcatalyst|Halcatalyst]] ([[User talk:Halcatalyst|talk]]) 12:27, 10 October 2008 (UTC) |
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= October 10 = |
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== Anglicisms in other languages == |
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Why do other languages take the an English word in the gerund and use it as a noun? For example, in France: ''one parks his car at the parking'' or ''gets a shampooing''. Thanks, [[User:Lazulilasher|Lazulilasher]] ([[User talk:Lazulilasher|talk]]) 01:09, 10 October 2008 (UTC) |
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:Here's an example from the French wiki [[:fr:Parking|Parking]]: '''Les parkings''' sont souvent choisis comme lieu d’action dans les œuvres culturelles telles que les films et les jeux vidéo. (Parking lots are often used for actions scenes in cultural works such as fims and video games") [[User:Lazulilasher|Lazulilasher]] ([[User talk:Lazulilasher|talk]]) 01:12, 10 October 2008 (UTC) |
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::Russian has смокинг (''smoking''), meaning a dinner jacket or tux. It's derived from "smoking jacket". I guess every language does things its own way, and some just happen to do it this way, sometimes. There's probably a better explanation. --[[User:JackofOz|JackofOz]] ([[User talk:JackofOz|talk]]) 01:27, 10 October 2008 (UTC) |
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:::''Smoking'' is used exactly like that in [[:no:Smoking|Norwegian]], [[:sv:Smoking|Swedish]], [[:da:Smoking|Danish]] and possibly [[:fi:Smoking|Finnish]] as well (although the kilts in the image in the Finnish article seem somewhat strange to me...) --[[User:NorwegianBlue|NorwegianBlue]]<sup>[[User_talk:NorwegianBlue| <u>talk</u>]]</sup> 20:18, 10 October 2008 (UTC). |
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::::As an aside, I once read in a book of patterns for men's clothes from circa 1900 that sometime in the 19th century the "[[smoking jacket]]" used to perform the same function as the [[dinner jacket]] does now, ie. it was worn to informal dinner parties, and the theatre if it's not a premiere, etc. Hence the name "smoking" for the d. j. in several foreign languages. Unfortunately I haven't the book on hand so I daren't put this in the article "Smoking jacket". But I do dare put it here. It does square with the history of the dinner jacket as described in our article.--[[User:Rallette|Rallette]] ([[User talk:Rallette|talk]]) 10:16, 10 October 2008 (UTC) |
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::: My view (sorry I don't have a reference book to prove it) is that, most of the time, it is simply an abbreviation of a longer phrase, and the phrase is too long to remember for someone who does not understand it, but the first part sticks and enters the language. A parking lot -> ''un parking'', some shampooing cream -> ''du shampooing'', a smoking jacket -> ''un smoking''. There may be exceptions to that rule, but quite recently (I mean recently from a language life point of view, at the end of the 1990s), you could hear, on the French radio channels for youngsters, some pop music commentators that were talking about "les smashing"... they were talking about [[the smashing pumpkins]], but were lazy enough not to make the effort to pronounce the whole band name. I think it simply starts that way. --[[User:Lgriot|Lgriot]] ([[User talk:Lgriot|talk]]) 06:27, 10 October 2008 (UTC) |
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:::: Nevertheless, Franglais has an inordinate fondness for the -ing ending. I think it's at least partially attributable to the fact that French doesn't have the /ŋ/ sound in native words, so using it emphasizes a word's Englishness. —[[User:Angr|'''An''']][[User talk:Angr|''gr'']] 06:32, 10 October 2008 (UTC) |
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:::::Erm. The French speak French, not "Franglais", and couldn't care less about the Englishness of "parking" or "shampooing", which they pronounce /ʃɑ̃.pwɛ̃/ anyway. [[User:Equendil|Equendil]] <small>[[User talk:Equendil|''Talk'']]</small> 09:53, 10 October 2008 (UTC) |
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::::::The French speak [[Franglais]] as well as French. --'''[[User:Kjoonlee|Kjoon]]'''[[User talk:Kjoonlee|lee]] 23:43, 10 October 2008 (UTC) |
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:::::::I'm French but thanks for telling me what I speak. The French borrow words from other languages, it's hardly unheard of and doesn't constitute a whole new brand of language. Back to words ending in "ing", Lgriot above is likely on to something, though I would also point out that nouns ending in "ing" is a relatively common construction in English in the first place: marketing, merchandising, trading, awakening, dealing, fencing, accounting, reporting, acting ... just a few instances, the first two are used in French. [[User:Equendil|Equendil]] <small>[[User talk:Equendil|''Talk'']]</small> 00:28, 11 October 2008 (UTC) |
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:::::::(ec) Not really. Franglais in that sense is a way of referring to the use of certain anglicisms in French. But they're still speaking what they consider to be modern-day French, and would probably vehemently deny they're speaking Franglais. Wars have been fought over less. -- [[User:JackofOz|JackofOz]] ([[User talk:JackofOz|talk]]) 00:34, 11 October 2008 (UTC) |
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::::::::Hm, I wouldn't call Franglais to be a distinct language or anything like that. [[Konglish]] isn't Korean, after all. --'''[[User:Kjoonlee|Kjoon]]'''[[User talk:Kjoonlee|lee]] 02:00, 11 October 2008 (UTC) |
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== Saline solution or water? == |
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Which is more conductive of electricity, water or salt water?--[[User:Ye Olde Luke|Ye Olde Luke]] ([[User talk:Ye Olde Luke|talk]]) 05:14, 10 October 2008 (UTC) |
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:This is the language reference desk. The science desk is [[WP:RD/S|down the hall and to the right]]. —[[User:Angr|'''An''']][[User talk:Angr|''gr'']] 05:16, 10 October 2008 (UTC) |
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::But saline solutions conduct electricity better, thanks to the sodium and chlorine ions. --'''[[User:Kjoonlee|Kjoon]]'''[[User talk:Kjoonlee|lee]] 07:56, 10 October 2008 (UTC) |
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Wait a sec, is this a trick question about language? Salt water is also water. ;) --'''[[User:Kjoonlee|Kjoon]]'''[[User talk:Kjoonlee|lee]] 07:57, 10 October 2008 (UTC) |
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== Translation request: English → Esperanto == |
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Could someone please translate one of the following, for an image caption? |
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English:<br /> |
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a) [[Stephon Marbury]] prepares to shoot a [[free throw]].</br> |
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b) [[Stephon Marbury]] at the [[free throw]] line. |
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Thank you~ <small><span style="border:1px solid #955619;padding:1px;"><font style="color:#955619;">[[User:Louis Waweru|<b>Louis Waweru</b>]]</font> [[User_talk:Louis Waweru|<font style="color:#FFFFFF;background:#955619;"> Talk </font>]]</span></small> 14:04, 10 October 2008 (UTC) |
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Esperanto: |
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:a) Stephon Marbury preparas pafi <s>ŝoton liberan</s> liberan ĵeton. |
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:b) Stephon Marbury ĉe la <s>linio de ŝoto libera</s> liberĵeta linio.--[[User:El aprendelenguas|el '''Apre'''l]] (<sup>[[Special:Contributions/El aprendelenguas|facta]]</sup>-<sub>[[User talk:El aprendelenguas|facienda]]</sub>) 01:26, 11 October 2008 (UTC) Scratch that. I had a look at Esperanto's article on basketball and found better terms for ''free throw'' and the line.--[[User:El aprendelenguas|el '''Apre'''l]] (<sup>[[Special:Contributions/El aprendelenguas|facta]]</sup>-<sub>[[User talk:El aprendelenguas|facienda]]</sub>) 01:34, 11 October 2008 (UTC) |
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== Translation from Italian requested == |
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The following appears without translation on the [[Antonio Beccadelli]]page. Can anyone give a good translation? |
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IN QUESTO |
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CHE FU ANTICO PALAZZO |
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DE' BECCADELLI BOLOGNA |
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NACQUE DI QUELLA STIRPE |
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ANTONIO DETTO IL PANORMITA |
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ONORE DI SUA CITTÀ E D'ITALIA |
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NEL XV SECOLO |
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--[[User:Ross Burgess|rossb]] ([[User talk:Ross Burgess|talk]]) 14:25, 10 October 2008 (UTC) |
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:In this (building), which was the ancient Palazzo De'Beccadelli Bologna (ie, the palace of the De'Beccadelli family), was born of that family Antonio, called "the Palermitan" (the one from Palermo), pride of his city and of Italy, in the 15th century. -- [[User:Ferkelparade|Ferkelparade]] [[User_talk:Ferkelparade|π]] 14:40, 10 October 2008 (UTC) |
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== Japanese Question: 抑揚がない? == |
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In the margin of the results from an oral exam my Japanese professor wrote, concerning my Japanese: |
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イントネーションに気をつけて<br /> |
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よくようがない時が多い |
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I understand the first part means I should be careful about my intonations, but I'm unsure about the second sentence. |
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Is this a compliment meaning, "There are many times when you seem to have no accent (while speaking Japanese)", |
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or does it mean, more likely given the context, |
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"There are many times when (your Japanese) lacks (the correct) intonation/accent"? |
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If a native speaker would answer, I would greatly appreciate it. (I'm leaving for Fall Break, otherwise I would just ask my Japanese professor). <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/128.239.177.28|128.239.177.28]] ([[User talk:128.239.177.28|talk]]) 06:25, 11 October 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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== Condolezza Rice == |
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What languages does she speak? [[User:Vltava 68|<font color="000080">Vltava 68</font>]] ([[User talk:Vltava 68|talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Vltava 68|<font color="green">contribs</font>]]) 06:41, 11 October 2008 (UTC) |
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== Ř == |
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How in the world is this Czech letter pronounced? I can't quite get it... [[User:Vltava 68|<font color="000080">Vltava 68</font>]] ([[User talk:Vltava 68|talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Vltava 68|<font color="green">contribs</font>]]) 06:47, 11 October 2008 (UTC) |
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Revision as of 08:43, 11 October 2008
WikiProject Queensland
Board | List | Australia Portal | Projects | To-Do
Welcome to WikiProject Queensland!
This WikiProject aims to create and improve articles and images related to Queensland, Australia, particularly those relating to the state as a whole, or to areas outside the WikiProject Brisbane area of interest.
We would like as much help as possible, so if you are interested, please add your name to the list below, and look at the to-do list for some suggestions on articles that you may be able to help with. You may also inquire on the talk page, or visit the Australian Wikipedians' noticeboard for collaboration on Australian articles in general.
Categories
The WikiProject Queensland page was created on 13 October 2007 to improve articles related to Queensland. The project has two active sub-projects; WikiProject Brisbane and WikiProject Townsville. The scope of the project includes articles in the following categories.
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Things you can do
Here are some tasks you can do to help at WikiProject Queensland :
- Requests: Articles · Assessment · Importance
- Expand: Australian Butterfly Sanctuary · Bloomfield River · Browns Falls · Bungil Creek · Carnarvon Range · Conondale Range · Coomera Falls · Expedition Range · Hinchinbrook Channel · Little Liverpool Range · Maranoa · Merivale River · Nothoalsomitra · Queensland Academy of Sport · Queensland State Hockey Centre · Seaview Range · Steamer Range · Susan River · Tarong Energy · More...
- Images: Cubbie Station · Fitzroy Island Light · Institute of Modern Art · Mackay Base Hospital · Poona Dam · Roma Power Station
- Verify: Criminal Justice Commission · D'Aguilar Range · List of Road Routes in Queensland · North Queensland · Sport in Queensland · Tropical Queensland
- Other: Populate Category:Events in Queensland · Sort Flora of Queensland, Floods in Queensland
Quality watch:
A list of articles needing cleanup associated with this project is available. See also the tool's wiki page and the index of WikiProjects.
Goals
- To coordinate and improve articles related to Queensland;
- To foster collaboration between editors in Queensland;
- To establish appropriate linkages with the Wikipedia Australia project and portal;
- To ascertain and identify the Queensland component of other Wikipedia projects;
- To improve iconic and high-profile Queensland articles to FA quality.
Related projects
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Participants
People who wish to participate in WikiProject Queensland please add your name below.
 | This user is a member of WikiProject Queensland. |
 | This user is a member of WikiProject Queensland. |
- Mattinbgn (talk · contribs)
- Orderinchaos (talk · contribs)
- WikiTownsvillian (talk · contribs) - from Townsville obviously, focus mostly on Townsville and Palm but happy to help wherever.
- Dihydrogen Monoxide (talk · contribs) - From Brisbane, but I love the state.
- Bongomanrae (talk · contribs)
- Thuringowacityrep (talk · contribs) - From the former City of Thuringowa (now Townsville) and work mostly on local articles however i have started others and try to keep them all up to date.
- Shiftchange (talk · contribs)
- Bruceanthro (talk · contribs)
- Madilayn (talk · contribs)
- L.Wadsworth (talk · contribs)
- Be best (talk · contribs)
- Tennis expert (talk · contribs)
- Travellingcari (talk · contribs) - no longer local, but QLD has a big place in my heart and I love working on the articles. Found this project by accident via Federation Walk.
- Toytown Mafia (talk · contribs) - going to be working on some of the islands.
- Das_nbs (talk · contribs) - from Brisbane, Mareeba, Tolga, Queensland, (Atherton Tableland), Cairns, Buderim and Maroochydore.
- jedikid5 (talk · contribs) - Focus on Gold Coast, geography, Theme Parks among others.