Talk:Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart and Slate industry: Difference between pages

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Difference between pages)
Content deleted Content added
VisualWikitext
 
 
Line 1: Line 1:
The '''slate industry''' is the [[industry]] related to the extraction and processing of [[slate]]. Slate is either quarried from a [[open-pit mining|''slate quarry'']] or reached by tunneling in a ''slate mine''. Common uses for slate include as a roofing material, a flooring material and for electrical insulation. Slate mines are found around the world and major slate mining regions include [[Wales]], [[Cornwall]] (famously the town of [[Delabole]]) and the Honister slate mine in the [[Lake District]] in the [[United Kingdom]], [[Portugal]], [[Fumay]] in the [[Ardennes]], the east coast of [[Newfoundland (island)|Newfoundland]], and the Slate Valley of [[Vermont]] and [[New York]]. This area, centering on a town called [[Granville NY]] is the only place in the world where [[colored slate]] is mined.
{{talkheader}}
{{ArticleHistory
|action1=RBP
|action1date=January 19,2004
|action1link=Wikipedia:Archive/Refreshing_brilliant_prose_-_People_and_culture
|action1result=kept
|action1oldid=2834414


== Slate industry in Wales ==
|action2=FAR
=== Background ===
|action2date=October 20 2004
|action2link=Wikipedia:Featured article removal candidates/Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart (the first)
|action2result=kept
|action2oldid=6772670


:''main article [[Slate industry in Wales]]'''''Blueberry
|action3=FAR
'''
|action3date=October 29,2005
|action3link=Wikipedia:Featured_article_removal_candidates/Wolfgang_Amadeus_Mozart
|action3result=demoted
|action3oldid=25961908


[[Image:MineBridge.jpg|thumb|right|Bridge over a chamber]]
|action4=GAN
|action4date=February 21,2007
|action4link=Talk:Wolfgang_Amadeus_Mozart/Archive_2#GA_Fail
|action4result=failed
|action4oldid=109715643


Slate has been mined in north Wales for several centuries — this was recently confirmed by the discovery in the [[Menai Strait]] of the wreck of a 16th century wooden ship carrying finished slates.
|currentstatus=FFA
|maindate=February 22,2004
}}
{{WikiProjectBanners
|1={{composers|class=B}}
|2={{WPBiography|living=no|class=B|priority=Top|core=yes|needs=infobox=yes|musician-work-group=yes|listas=Mozart, Wolfgang Amadeus}}
|3={{WikiProject Austria|class=B|importance=high}}
|4={{FAOL|French|fr:Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart|lang2=Indonesian|link2=id:Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart|lang3=Greek|link3=el:Βόλφγκανγκ Αμαντέους Μότσαρτ|lang4=Hebrew|link4=he:וולפגנג אמדאוס מוצרט|lang5=Kannada|link5=kn:ವುಲ್ಫ್‌ಗ್ಯಾಂಗ್ ಅಮೆಡಿಯುಸ್ ಮೊಟ್ಜಾರ್ಟ್|lang6=Nynorsk|link6=nn:Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart|small=yes}}
|7={{WP1.0|v0.5=pass|class=B|importance=high|category=Arts|VA=yes}}
}}


Large-scale commercial [[Slate industry in Wales|slate mining]] in North Wales began with the opening of the Cae Braich y Cafn quarry, later to become the [[Penrhyn Quarry]] near [[Bethesda, Wales|Bethesda]] in the Ogwen Valley in 1782. Welsh output was far ahead of other areas and by 1882, 92% of Britain's production was from Wales (451,000t): the quarries at Penrhyn and [[Dinorwic|Dinorwic Quarry]] produced half of this between them.
== More about Mozart ==


The men worked the slate in partnerships of four, six or eight and these were known as "Bargain Gangs". "Bargains" were let by the "Bargain Letter" when a price for a certain area of rock was agreed. Adjustments were made according to the quality of the slate and the proportion of 'bad' rock. The first Monday of every month was "Bargain Letting Day" when these agreements were made between men and management. Half the partners worked the quarry face and the others were in the dressing sheds producing the finished slates. In the Glyndyfrdwy mines at Moel Fferna each bargain worked a horizontal stretch of 10 by 15 yards. Duchesses, Marchionesses, countesses, Viscountesses, Ladies and Small Ladies, Doubles and Randoms were all sizes of slates produced.
I think that its important to add that Mozart had Tourette Syndrome <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Ungu|Ungu]] ([[User talk:Ungu|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Ungu|contribs]]) 09:49, 6 August 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->


Rubblers helped to keep the chambers free from waste: one ton of saleable slate could produce up to 30 tons of waste. It is the mountainous heaps of this very same waste that is perhaps the first thing to strike someone visiting the old regions nowadays. The men had to pay for their ropes and chains, for tools and for services such as sharpening and repairing. Subs (advances) were paid every week, everything being settled up on the "Day of the Big Pay". If conditions had not been good, the men could end up owing the management money. At Moel Fferna a team could produce up to 35 tons of finished slate a week. In 1877 they received about 7 shillings a ton for this. After paying wages for the manager, clerks and 'trammers' the company could make a clear profit of twice this amount. This system was not finally abolished until after the Second World War.
:I think it's important to find a reputable source for that. (And a source that says he may have had it, or probably had it, is not the same as a source that says he had it.) -- [[User:JackofOz|JackofOz]] ([[User talk:JackofOz|talk]]) 08:22, 9 August 2008 (UTC)


=== Working methods ===
::We've been through this before (see our earlier discussion[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wolfgang_Amadeus_Mozart/Archive_2#Tourette.3F]). Some sharp WP editors tracked down the story, concluding it was from a biased source, has little credibility, and was not accepted by scholars with expertise on Tourette's and/or Mozart.


Early workings tended to be in surface pits, but as the work progressed downwards, it became necessary to work underground. This was often accompanied by the driving of one or more adits to gain direct access to a Level. In some rare instances, such as Moel Fferna, there is no trace of surface workings and the workings were entiely underground.
::Moreover, the Mozart-Tourette hypothesis is already well covered in the Wikipedia's article about [[Tourette syndrome]] and in [[Sociological and cultural aspects of Tourette syndrome]] -- no need to include it here as well. People who are curious will be able to find it by searching under Tourette syndrome. [[User:Opus33|Opus33]] ([[User talk:Opus33|talk]]) 17:17, 9 August 2008 (UTC)


Chambers were usually driven from the bottom, by means of a "roofing shaft" which was then continued across the width of the chamber: the chamber would then be worked downwards. Slate was freed from the rockface by blasting in shot holes hammered (and later drilled) into the rock.
==Revive this article==
This article needs a complete top-to-bottom revision - in fact, I would say a total rewrite. It is a blot on Wikipedia that so important a subject should be represented by such low quality. The main areas for criticism are:-
*Inadequate lead
*Generally poor quality prose. Sample sentence: "There were some prospects of employment in Mannheim, but eventually they failed to pan out".
*Inconsistent citation. There are 70+ in-line citations, but still hosts of uncited facts, including verbatim quotes. The long "Works, musical style and innovation" section (written in a totally different style) is virtually without any citation at all.
*Inappropriate sources: No use made, for example, of Zaslaw, Sadie, Eisen, Jane Glover (''Mozart's Women''). I know Sadie's biography is recent, but his New Grove article is virtually a book in its own right, and I see no reference to that.
*Over-ambition. It might be appropriate to focus this article on Mozart's life, and leave the detailed musical analysis, such as is attempted in the aforementioned "Works, musical style" etc section, to a separate article.


Slate would be recovered from the chamber in the form of a large slab, which would be taken by truck to the mill where it would be split and cut into standard-sized roofing slates.
Comments welcome. [[User:Brianboulton|Brianboulton]] ([[User talk:Brianboulton|talk]]) 09:54, 26 August 2008 (UTC)


Slate mines were usually worked in chambers which followed the slate vein, connected via a series of horizontal "Floors" (or "Levels"). The chambers varied in size between mines and were divided by "pillars" or walls which supported the roof. The floors were connected by underground "Inclines" which used wedge-shaped trolleys to move trucks between levels.
:I'm generally in agreement with Brian's analysis, however maybe it would be better to tackle one problem at a time? Perhaps it would be best to start with a rewrite/copyedit to smooth out the English style and make it flow a bit? --''[[User:Kleinzach|<span style="color:#FF4500;letter-spacing:2px;">Klein</span>]][[User talk:Kleinzach|<span style="padding:0px 0px 1px 2px;color:white; background-color:#ACE1AF;letter-spacing:2px;">zach</span>]]'' 10:17, 26 August 2008 (UTC)


In some mines, where slate was worked away below the main haulage floor, the route was maintained through the construction of a wooden bridge across the chamber, often supported from chains attached to the roof above. These bridges could be as much as 100 feet/30 m above the floor below.
I'm sorry User:Brianboulton doesn't like the article. I disagree with his assessment of the prose style, judging that occasional colloquialisms like "pan out" are in fact acceptable in encyclopedia writing--blandness can be a fault, too. I also think that short leads are best, and would cite the practice of the Grove Dictionary in support of this (their Mozart lead is four sentences). Lastly, I'm quite concerned that rapid, massive changes to the article will reduce its factual accuracy, which can be a major problem for a composer whose life has attracted so much mythology. [[User:Opus33|Opus33]] ([[User talk:Opus33|talk]]) 15:20, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
:The changes may well be massive; they will not be rapid. The accuracy of the article will be enhanced, not threatened, and facts will be fully cited to reliable sources. OPus33 may think that short leads are best, but this is a Wikpedia article and the present short introduction is not in accordance with [[WP:LEAD]]. The lack of citation in some areas is likewise unacceptable. I cannot believe that Opus thinks the article incapable of improvement; if she/he disagrees with my analysis, can she/he come up with her/his own practical suggestions as to how it might develop? [[User:Brianboulton|Brianboulton]] ([[User talk:Brianboulton|talk]]) 20:38, 26 August 2008 (UTC)


=== Significant mines ===
Yup.


In North [[Gwynedd]], the large slate producing quarries were usually confined to open-cast workings, sometimes with an [[adit]] to gain access to the bottom of the pit:
*The musical style section was written by [[User:Antandrus]] a few years ago in response to popular demand. It's been slowly degraded over time with drive-by edits. I think the original version ought to be restored, then backed up with more references.
*[[Penrhyn Quarry]], [[Bethesda]]. The largest slate producing quarry in the world. Bought by [[Alfred McAlpine plc]] in [[1964]].
*Of course the citations that are missing need to be filled in, and more sources need to be consulted to provide a more balanced picture. The bio currently is based on Deutsch, Solomon, New Grove, and the first half of Halliwell. The more reference works that are consulted and cited, the better.
*[[Dinorwic Quarry]], [[Llanberis]].
*The topic is huge and could use more satellite articles treating particular periods in detail, along the lines of [[Mozart's Berlin journey]] and [[Death of Mozart]].
*Cilgwyn quarry, [[Nantlle Valley]]. Dating from the 12th century it is thought to be the oldest in Wales.<ref>Lindsay p. 314</ref>


In the [[Blaenau Ffestiniog]] area, most of the workings were underground as the slate veins are steeply angled and open cast workings would require the removal of a massive amount of rock to gain access to the slate. The larger mines in the Ffestiniog area include:
Re. prose: I would guess that User:Brianboulton would like the article to read as if he had written it himself. I judge that this is selfish and he ought to find something better to do with his time. The prose of the bio is already clear and the wordings were selected carefully for accuracy. [[User:Opus33|Opus33]] ([[User talk:Opus33|talk]]) 15:01, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
**What is your problem - have I struck a raw nerve somewhere? However, may I respectfully point out that you do not own this article, and should not try to judge my motives. I would consider any amount of time well spent if it improved the article to the standard it deserves. Instead of this defensive carping, since we are in agreement that some things needs to be done, why not try to devise a practical plan for actually doing them? [[User:Brianboulton|Brianboulton]] ([[User talk:Brianboulton|talk]]) 16:47, 27 August 2008 (UTC)


[[Image:BoilerChamber.jpg|thumb|right|Chamber in a slate mine]]
No raw nerves here, but I think that from the start of this discussion you have adopted an aggressive and unpleasant tone, which you should not be doing on WP. Go ahead and take a look again at what you wrote.


* [[Llechwedd quarry]] – now open to the public as a "tourist mine". Most of the underground workings destroyed by quarrying. [http://www.llechwedd-slate-caverns.co.uk Llechwedd Slate Caverns]
Re "practical plan," the three bullet points above are what I have in mind. [[User:Opus33|Opus33]] ([[User talk:Opus33|talk]]) 16:07, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
* Manod – used by the [[National Gallery, London]] to store artworks in [[World War II]]
* [[Maenofferen Quarry|Maenofferen]]
* Oakeley – now "untopped" as an opencast working by [[Alfred McAlpine plc]]
* Cwmorthin
* Rhosydd
* [[Croesor Tramway|Croesor]]


There were also a number of slate mines in the [[Llangollen]] area which produced a much darker "black" slate:
*Getting called out by the Russian Quartets is a veritable ''rite de passage'' here in the Classical sandbox, so Brian you shouldn't feel bad. As for your points, I think you overstate the case somewhat. Reputable sources are always a problem for Wikipedia articles because so few of us can typically be bothered to consult (or are familiar with?) the standard literature. For Classical, a Groves regurge is often the best that can be hoped for. However, this article at least benefits from referencing some of the standard literature. Of the additional sources suggested, it would be good to add them in, but I am unconvinced that there absence renders this article useless as a general encyclopedic overview of WAM's life. Then there are the usual jaw-dropping idiocies of Wikipedia citation, such as footnoting the fact that Max Reger's ''Variations and Fugue on a Theme by Mozart'' is, in fact, based on a theme by Mozart. Mon Dieu. As a question, what does this article look like compared to when it was featured? [[User:Eusebeus|Eusebeus]] ([[User talk:Eusebeus|talk]]) 19:12, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
*Berwyn
*Moel Fferna
*Penarth


Another cluster of mines were found in mid Wales centered on [[Corris]]. These all worked a pair of slate veins that ran across the Cambrian mountain range from [[Bryn Eglwys]] in the west through Corris and [[Aberllefenni]] in the Dulas Valley to the mines around [[Dinas Mawddwy]] in the east.


=== Remains ===
::OK, I've looked at what I wrote; not intentionally aggressive, but blunt, provocative and a bit rude. But (please note) without personal attacks. I wrote it in the heat of the moment and on reflection could have made my points in a less confrontational manner. I apologise unreservedly for any offence given. I wanted to kick-start a process - did I overstate the case? Yes, in some respects I did. I was unfair about the prose, which probably only needs minor attention rather than the "rewrite" I was demanding. I think that the lack of adequate citations is a problem - that doesn't mean I am arguing for the "usual jaw-dropping idiocies" as exemplified above, merely for a consistent level of citation of significant facts throughout the article. Tempting though it is, I can't be quite as dismissive about Wikipedia as the above good-humoured comments; as to comparing the article's present form with that of its FA version, well FA standards weren't particulary high then, so I'm not convinced that such a comparison would be very useful.
[[Image:FloatingBridge.jpg|thumb|right|Remains of a bridge in a flooded chamber]]
Most underground slate mines in north Wales were closed by the 1960s although some open-cast quarries have remained open, including the Penrhyn Quarry and the untopping work at Oakeley in [[Blaenau Ffestiniog]]. Work also continues at [http://www.berwynslate.com/ Berwyn] near Llangollen. The final large-scale underground working to close was [[Maenofferen Quarry]] (which is owned by the Llechwedd tourist mine) in 1999 although opencast quarrying continues at this location.


Many of the mines are now in a state of considerable decay and those that are accessible should not be entered as they are on private property and contain many hidden dangers. The lower levels of many mines are now flooded and collapses are commonplace, for example the hillside above the Rhosydd workings has many pits where the roofs of the chambers below have collapsed.
::I have no wish to "take over" this article, as has been suggested. I would like to contribute to a process of revivification of an article which I believe has suffered from a certain amount of benign neglect. I agree with the three bullet points that Opus33 has offered, and can suggest a couple more: a decent lead, and some refreshment of the prose. I think that the idea of more satellite articles, which would offer the possibility of increased detail without over-inflating the article, is sound. I once started a project "Mozart in London" which never got beyond the sandbox, and is probably too limited an area, but I would certainly be prepared to do a sub-article dealing with the first family journey, which included London. However, I would rather not do anything significant, without it being an agreed part of a plan. I am learning to tread cautiously. [[User:Brianboulton|Brianboulton]] ([[User talk:Brianboulton|talk]]) 21:01, 28 August 2008 (UTC)


== Slate industry in the Lake District ==
:::Thank you for your courteous reply, Brian, and for the recent addition of citations to the article.


During the last 500 years, much slate extraction has taken place the Lake District at both surface quarries and underground mines. The major workings are:
:::Re. a lead: I could imagine having a longer one. My understanding is that the lead is [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:LEAD supposed to] serve as stand-in for reading the whole article, which raises my hackles (why indulge lazy readers?), but it wouldn't be the end of the world. On the other hand, I caution that historically, the lead in this article has attracted a great number of dreadful edits (often, individuals blurting out how much they love Mozart), and it will be harder to protect a long lead from gradual degradation.
* Honister Slate mine (including Yew Crag and Dubs)
* Old Man Complex
* Cove quarries (south of Coniston Old Man)
* Kirkby Moor (Burlington quarries)
* Broughton Moor
* Kentmere Workings
* Elterwater quarries
* Little Langdale Quarries
* Hodge Close
* Tilberthwaite
* Petts, Kirkstone
* Common Wood, Ulpha


== Slate industry in North America ==
:::A "Mozart's early travels" article would be great. Ruth Halliwell's book is a very good source for this.
[[Image:MonsonQuarry.jpg|thumb|right|Slate quarry at [[Monson, Maine|Monson]], [[Maine]]]]
The slate industry in the [[USA|United States]] is concentrated in the Taconic Mountains region of [[Vermont]] and [[New York]], known as the ''Slate Valley''. Slate was first quarried in 1839 at [[Fair Haven (town), Vermont|Fair Haven]], Vermont. An influx of immigrants from the North Wales slate quarrying communities saw a boom in slate production that peaked between the late 1850s and early 1900's. The slate of the region comes in a variety of colors, notably green, gray, black and red. Some production continued in 2003 with 23 operating full-time mines employing 348 people [http://www.uvm.edu/~envprog/formslinks/Vermont%20Mining/Slate.html].


Large scale slate quarrying also took place around the town of [[Monson, Maine|Monson]], [[Maine]] where an extensive series of quarries flourished from the 1860s onwards. A small scale quarrying and dressing operation continues in Monson into the 21st. century.
:::Yours sincerely, [[User:Opus33|Opus33]] ([[User talk:Opus33|talk]]) 16:01, 29 August 2008 (UTC)


==Notes==
::::Halliwell's book is practically unobtainable in the UK, but I have other sources. [[User:Brianboulton|Brianboulton]] ([[User talk:Brianboulton|talk]]) 20:31, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
<div class="references-small" style="-moz-column-count:2; column-count:2;"><references /></div>


==See also==
*[[British industrial narrow gauge railways]]
*[[Mine exploration]]


==Further reading==
My opinion is that on any Wikipedia don't take it 100% true and always say it was from wikipedia so people know it could be wrong if you do sourcing. However, some things are extremely true but some pranks add things to have a laugh.
*Gordon Emery, ''Curious Clwyd 2'' (1996) ISBN 1-872265-97-9
*Cris Ebbs, ''Underground Clwyd'' (1998) ISBN 1-872265-93-6


==External links==
So don't be sure it's true and start spreading rumours about things!!
*[http://www.slatevalleymuseum.org/]Granville Slate Museum
*[http://www.slateroof.co.uk History of the Welsh slate industry]
*[http://www.llechicymru.info/index.english.htm Slatesite] &mdash; bilingual site focusing on Welsh slate
*[http://cornovia.org.uk/htexts/turner01.html John T F Turner - A Familiar Description of the Old Delabole Slate Quarries, 1865]
*http://www.darkplaces.co.uk
*http://www.aditnow.co.uk
*http://www.mine-explorer.co.uk/
*http://www.mineexplorer.org.uk/
*[http://www.besucherbergwerk-fell.de Fell Exhibition Slate Mine] &mdash; near Trier (Mosel), Germany
*[http://www.gtj.org.uk/en/item10/28979 Aerial photographs of slate quarries in Wales]


[[Category:Slate industry| ]]
An incident was recently about Vernon Kay which said he died in a sailing accident on the Greece islands. ummmmmmm.... bad editing eh? <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/81.153.251.85|81.153.251.85]] ([[User talk:81.153.251.85|talk]]) 19:00, 22 September 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Draft new lead ==
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Brianboulton/Sandbox3 This] is the draft of a possible extended lead section. It's written in sympathy with the article, and except for a slight flourish at the end (courtesy Robbins Landon) it is, or attempts to be, a summary of the article rather than a summary of Mozart's life. Leads can sometimes be a stand-in for reading the whole article, but they can also make people want to read more. Please feel free to comment on this draft, edit it, or whatever. [[User:Brianboulton|Brianboulton]] ([[User talk:Brianboulton|talk]]) 16:54, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

:Hello Brian, it looks pretty good to me. The only part where I see revision might be in order concerns just two sentences in the middle:

::'In 1773, aged 17, he accepted a post as a Court Musician in Salzburg, but was soon discontented. There followed years of relative poverty and further travels, as Mozart sought a better position without success, while continuing to compose profusely.

:I think we'd be out on a limb describing 1773-1781 as a period of poverty. Rather, in the view of Halliwell, and not necessarily everybody, there was a temporary financial crisis in 1777 in Paris when the expenses of the journey had gone beyond what Leopold was able to pay for. But during less expensive times when Wolfgang lived at home, it seems the Mozarts (with two incomes) were able to live a quite stable, middle-class life.

:So maybe this particular bit might be rewritten, leaving out the controversial poverty claim and emphasizing instead the discontentment and wanderlust.

:Two tiny bits: perhaps leave out the caps on Court Musician (seems pretty generic to me) and switch "profusely" to something else (alas, the word seems to have become contaminated with sweat).

::Putting all this together, I suggest something like:

::'In 1773, aged 17, he accepted a post as a court musician in Salzburg, but was unhappy with his low pay and limited opportunities. Over the next eight years, he frequently traveled in search of a better position, and composed abundantly.

:I hope this is helpful. [[User:Opus33|Opus33]] ([[User talk:Opus33|talk]]) 17:49, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
::Yes, most helpful - I have altered the draft accordingly. Could you also check that I haven't transgressed American spellings, which are needed for consistency. [[User:Brianboulton|Brianboulton]] ([[User talk:Brianboulton|talk]]) 18:37, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

:::I like it; it reads well, contains the important elements of a lead, and makes it a better article. I have to admit that I've had trouble getting used to the "Wiki-style" multi-paragraph lead: most of the other encyclopedias I know (e.g. Grove) summarise a composer in a single pithy paragraph. But this is good work. Cheers, [[User:Antandrus|Antandrus ]] [[User_talk:Antandrus|(talk)]] 19:09, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
:::Not bad - a bit prolix perhaps, but then I echo Antandrus' point that these wordy ledes can come across to me as dilettantish & spoonfeeding. I wonder what cabal managed to impose their views on the project as a whole. Anyway Brian, that's not a criticism of your rewrite. Nice work. [[User:Eusebeus|Eusebeus]] ([[User talk:Eusebeus|talk]]) 19:38, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

::::Looks like a consensus, so I'll post the extended lead. I'm away now until 18th or 19th so can't respond to comments (if any) immediately.[[User:Brianboulton|Brianboulton]] ([[User talk:Brianboulton|talk]]) 18:45, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

== Lists of Compositions and Composition Articles ==

There are currently two disparate lists of compositions by Mozart ([[Köchel_catalogue|here]] and [[List_of_compositions_by_Wolfgang_Amadeus_Mozart|here]]). Do we really need both? Also, there are stand-alone articles for each of the 600+ compositions. Some of which are [[Allegro_in_C_for_Keyboard_(Mozart)|shorter than this message]]. I can understand the notability of his first composition (being at age 5 and all) but ''every single composition''? There is some serious notability concerns here. To make [[List of compositions by Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart]] a main article is understandable and any compositions that acctually demonstrate notability should obviously be kept but articles whose depth is "it's 15 secs. of arpeggios" should go to AfD. [[user:Padillah|padillaH]] <sup>([[Wikipedia:Editor_review/Padillah|review me]])</sup><sub>([[H. Tomàs Padilla|help me]])</sub> 17:41, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

An obviously missed opportunity is a listing of all the missing or lost pieces by Mozart. These are suaully referenced in letters or catalogues but the music itself has not survived. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/90.195.183.172|90.195.183.172]] ([[User talk:90.195.183.172|talk]]) 08:39, 19 September 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== mozart-archiv.de ==

How about a link to mozart-archiv.de which hosts the complete works of Mozart in digital recordings? I think the site is legal because it's hosted in Germany (there's even a map on the site) and it's been around for years. - [[User:Gus|Gus]] <sup>([[User talk:Gus|T]], [[Special:Contributions/Gus|C]])</sup> <i>2008-09-18</i> 16:41Z 16:41, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

:I can't see why a link to that site cannot be included. While the organisation of the site is sub-optimal, it certainly is a valuable resource, especially when it comes to smaller and/or obscure works. [[User:Michael Bednarek|Michael Bednarek]] ([[User talk:Michael Bednarek|talk]]) 03:12, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

== Forgotten piece of music ==

Any comments about [http://music.sympatico.msn.ca/newsandfeatures/contentposting_news?newsitemid=113201043&feedname=cp-entertainment&show=false&number=0&showbyline=true&subtitle=&detect=&abc=abc&date=false&pagenumber=2&paginationenabled=false this]? [[User:Ilikepie2221|<font face="Segoe Print" color="#6B4226">Pie is good</font>]] [[User talk:Ilikepie2221|<font face="Segoe Script" color="#78AB46"><small><sup>(Apple is the best)</sup></small></font>]] 19:22, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Yes, that's a fascinating find, and I came here to see if there was more information on it. After reading this article I see it really doesn't fit here. Like the other compositions, it will need its own page once they release some detailed information. I would like to get hold of some scans so I can see what it sounds like on the piano. [[User:OrganTransplant|OrganTransplant]] ([[User talk:OrganTransplant|talk]]) 23:39, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Here's a [http://www.clarin.com/diario/2008/09/18/um/m-01762814.htm link] with a [http://www.servicios.clarin.com/notas/jsp/clarin/v9/galeria/galeria.jsp?notaId=1683898&mtmTipo=Imagen&mostrar=954502 better image] of the score. The [[Focus (German magazine)|magazine FOCUS]] [http://www.focus.de/panorama/welt/mozartforschung-neues-werk-mozarts-entdeckt_aid_334239.html says] its first part are 15 bars in D major of a ''[[Credo]]'' for an planned Mass, voice only. Apparently, the sheet is actually signed "W. A. Mozart". -- [[User:Michael Bednarek|Michael Bednarek]] ([[User talk:Michael Bednarek|talk]]) 03:12, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

== Amadeus play and movie ==

I think it should be briefly mentioned that these works are fictional, and are not intended to be historically accurate or biographical in any way. MANY people seem to mistakenly think otherwise. Thoughts? [[User:Kier07|Kier07]] ([[User talk:Kier07|talk]]) 05:20, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

:This article ([[Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart]]) doesn't deal with those; it correctly refers to the article [[Mozart in fiction]] where, obviously, the fictional character of those works is discussed. [[User:Michael Bednarek|Michael Bednarek]] ([[User talk:Michael Bednarek|talk]]) 05:50, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Revision as of 18:16, 30 September 2008

The slate industry is the industry related to the extraction and processing of slate. Slate is either quarried from a slate quarry or reached by tunneling in a slate mine. Common uses for slate include as a roofing material, a flooring material and for electrical insulation. Slate mines are found around the world and major slate mining regions include Wales, Cornwall (famously the town of Delabole) and the Honister slate mine in the Lake District in the United Kingdom, Portugal, Fumay in the Ardennes, the east coast of Newfoundland, and the Slate Valley of Vermont and New York. This area, centering on a town called Granville NY is the only place in the world where colored slate is mined.

Slate industry in Wales

Background

main article Slate industry in WalesBlueberry

File:MineBridge.jpg
Bridge over a chamber

Slate has been mined in north Wales for several centuries — this was recently confirmed by the discovery in the Menai Strait of the wreck of a 16th century wooden ship carrying finished slates.

Large-scale commercial slate mining in North Wales began with the opening of the Cae Braich y Cafn quarry, later to become the Penrhyn Quarry near Bethesda in the Ogwen Valley in 1782. Welsh output was far ahead of other areas and by 1882, 92% of Britain's production was from Wales (451,000t): the quarries at Penrhyn and Dinorwic Quarry produced half of this between them.

The men worked the slate in partnerships of four, six or eight and these were known as "Bargain Gangs". "Bargains" were let by the "Bargain Letter" when a price for a certain area of rock was agreed. Adjustments were made according to the quality of the slate and the proportion of 'bad' rock. The first Monday of every month was "Bargain Letting Day" when these agreements were made between men and management. Half the partners worked the quarry face and the others were in the dressing sheds producing the finished slates. In the Glyndyfrdwy mines at Moel Fferna each bargain worked a horizontal stretch of 10 by 15 yards. Duchesses, Marchionesses, countesses, Viscountesses, Ladies and Small Ladies, Doubles and Randoms were all sizes of slates produced.

Rubblers helped to keep the chambers free from waste: one ton of saleable slate could produce up to 30 tons of waste. It is the mountainous heaps of this very same waste that is perhaps the first thing to strike someone visiting the old regions nowadays. The men had to pay for their ropes and chains, for tools and for services such as sharpening and repairing. Subs (advances) were paid every week, everything being settled up on the "Day of the Big Pay". If conditions had not been good, the men could end up owing the management money. At Moel Fferna a team could produce up to 35 tons of finished slate a week. In 1877 they received about 7 shillings a ton for this. After paying wages for the manager, clerks and 'trammers' the company could make a clear profit of twice this amount. This system was not finally abolished until after the Second World War.

Working methods

Early workings tended to be in surface pits, but as the work progressed downwards, it became necessary to work underground. This was often accompanied by the driving of one or more adits to gain direct access to a Level. In some rare instances, such as Moel Fferna, there is no trace of surface workings and the workings were entiely underground.

Chambers were usually driven from the bottom, by means of a "roofing shaft" which was then continued across the width of the chamber: the chamber would then be worked downwards. Slate was freed from the rockface by blasting in shot holes hammered (and later drilled) into the rock.

Slate would be recovered from the chamber in the form of a large slab, which would be taken by truck to the mill where it would be split and cut into standard-sized roofing slates.

Slate mines were usually worked in chambers which followed the slate vein, connected via a series of horizontal "Floors" (or "Levels"). The chambers varied in size between mines and were divided by "pillars" or walls which supported the roof. The floors were connected by underground "Inclines" which used wedge-shaped trolleys to move trucks between levels.

In some mines, where slate was worked away below the main haulage floor, the route was maintained through the construction of a wooden bridge across the chamber, often supported from chains attached to the roof above. These bridges could be as much as 100 feet/30 m above the floor below.

Significant mines

In North Gwynedd, the large slate producing quarries were usually confined to open-cast workings, sometimes with an adit to gain access to the bottom of the pit:

In the Blaenau Ffestiniog area, most of the workings were underground as the slate veins are steeply angled and open cast workings would require the removal of a massive amount of rock to gain access to the slate. The larger mines in the Ffestiniog area include:

File:BoilerChamber.jpg
Chamber in a slate mine

There were also a number of slate mines in the Llangollen area which produced a much darker "black" slate:

  • Berwyn
  • Moel Fferna
  • Penarth

Another cluster of mines were found in mid Wales centered on Corris. These all worked a pair of slate veins that ran across the Cambrian mountain range from Bryn Eglwys in the west through Corris and Aberllefenni in the Dulas Valley to the mines around Dinas Mawddwy in the east.

Remains

File:FloatingBridge.jpg
Remains of a bridge in a flooded chamber

Most underground slate mines in north Wales were closed by the 1960s although some open-cast quarries have remained open, including the Penrhyn Quarry and the untopping work at Oakeley in Blaenau Ffestiniog. Work also continues at Berwyn near Llangollen. The final large-scale underground working to close was Maenofferen Quarry (which is owned by the Llechwedd tourist mine) in 1999 although opencast quarrying continues at this location.

Many of the mines are now in a state of considerable decay and those that are accessible should not be entered as they are on private property and contain many hidden dangers. The lower levels of many mines are now flooded and collapses are commonplace, for example the hillside above the Rhosydd workings has many pits where the roofs of the chambers below have collapsed.

Slate industry in the Lake District

During the last 500 years, much slate extraction has taken place the Lake District at both surface quarries and underground mines. The major workings are:

  • Honister Slate mine (including Yew Crag and Dubs)
  • Old Man Complex
  • Cove quarries (south of Coniston Old Man)
  • Kirkby Moor (Burlington quarries)
  • Broughton Moor
  • Kentmere Workings
  • Elterwater quarries
  • Little Langdale Quarries
  • Hodge Close
  • Tilberthwaite
  • Petts, Kirkstone
  • Common Wood, Ulpha

Slate industry in North America

Slate quarry at Monson, Maine

The slate industry in the United States is concentrated in the Taconic Mountains region of Vermont and New York, known as the Slate Valley. Slate was first quarried in 1839 at Fair Haven, Vermont. An influx of immigrants from the North Wales slate quarrying communities saw a boom in slate production that peaked between the late 1850s and early 1900's. The slate of the region comes in a variety of colors, notably green, gray, black and red. Some production continued in 2003 with 23 operating full-time mines employing 348 people [1].

Large scale slate quarrying also took place around the town of Monson, Maine where an extensive series of quarries flourished from the 1860s onwards. A small scale quarrying and dressing operation continues in Monson into the 21st. century.

Notes

  1. ^ Lindsay p. 314

See also

Further reading

  • Gordon Emery, Curious Clwyd 2 (1996) ISBN 1-872265-97-9
  • Cris Ebbs, Underground Clwyd (1998) ISBN 1-872265-93-6

External links

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Wolfgang_Amadeus_Mozart&oldid=242047765"