Talk:Ms. and Trick 'r Treat: Difference between pages
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{{for|the 1986 film of a similar name|Trick or Treat (1986 film)}} |
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==Full Stop Or Not== |
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{{future film}} |
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quick straw poll on whether to move this article: what do style guides around the world say for the full stop after Mr, Ms, Mrs? |
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{{references|date=February 2008}} |
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{{Infobox Film |
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| name = Trick 'r Treat |
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| image = Trick r treat.jpg |
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| caption = Promotional poster |
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| director = [[Michael Dougherty]] |
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| producer = [[Michael Dougherty]]<br>[[Bryan Singer]]<br>Thomas Tull<br>Jon Jashni<br>Bill Fay<br>[[Dan Harris]]<br>Alex Garcia<br>Peter Lhotka |
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| writer = [[Michael Dougherty]] |
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| starring = [[Brian Cox]]<br>[[Dylan Baker]]<br>[[Anna Paquin]]<br>[[Leslie Bibb]]<br>[[Rochelle Aytes]]<br>[[Tahmoh Penikett]] |
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| music = [[Douglas Pipes]] |
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| cinematography = Glen MacPherson |
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| editing = Robert Ivison |
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| distributor = [[Warner Bros.]]<br>[[Legendary Pictures]] |
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| released = [[2009 in film|2009]] |
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| runtime = 100 minutes |
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| country = {{USA}} |
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| language = [[English language|English]] |
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| budget = [[U.S. Dollar|$]]12 million |
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| gross = |
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| website = http://myspace.com/officialmikedougherty |
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| amg_id = 1:361160 |
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| imdb_id = 0862856 |
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}} |
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'''''Trick 'r Treat''''' is an upcoming [[horror film]]. It was written and directed by [[Michael Dougherty]] and based on his short film ''Season's Greetings''. Originally slated for an [[October 5]], [[2007 in film|2007]] release, it was announced in September 2007 that the movie has been pushed back to an undetermined 2009 date. The film has been rated R by the [[MPAA]] for [[Horror and terror|horror]] [[violence]], some [[human sexual behavior|sexuality]]/[[nudity]], and [[profanity|language]]. [[Warner Bros.]] and [[Legendary Pictures]] are slated to release the film at an undetermined date. |
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* Fowler: none |
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**Actually Fowler does deal with it, giving the account that give below. [[User:Mel Etitis|Mel Etitis]] ([[User talk:Mel Etitis|<font color="green">Μελ Ετητης</font>)]] 09:14, 17 May 2005 (UTC) |
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* Chicago: unsure, I think. Ortolan88 wrote something about it on the St page |
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What about other english-speaking countries? Australia? -- [[User:Tarquin|Tarquin]] 14:11 23 May 2003 (UTC) |
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==Plot== |
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:The ''Canadian Oxford'', the ''Globe and Mail Style Book'', and the ''Little, Brown Essential Handbook for Writers'' all use the period for ''Ms.'', as well as for ''Mr.'' and ''Mrs.'' - [[User:Montrealais|Montréalais]] 20:45, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC) |
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The film is an anthology of five Halloween-related scary stories. One thing that ties the stories together is the presense of Sam, a mysterious pint-sized trick-or-treater with a burlap pumpkin mask who makes some appearance in all the stories, and who may only be ''costumed'' as a child... |
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:The 'Style Guide for Authors, Editors and Printers' by AusInfo/the Australian Government Publishing Service prefers 'Ms', along with 'Mr' and 'Mrs'. FWIW, they recommend the pronunciation listed in the Macquarie Dictionary, which is /m@z/ (i.e. with the relaxed vowel of '''a'''bout, rather than the vowel of 'm'''i'''ster'). [[User:203.82.183.147|203.82.183.147]] 07:58, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC) |
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It is said that Halloween is the night when the dead rise to walk among us, and other unspeakable things roam free. The rituals of All Hallows Eve were devised to protect us from their evil mischief, and one small town is about to be taught a terrifying lesson that some traditions are best not forgotten. |
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Nothing is what it seems when a suburban couple learns the dangers of blowing out a Jack-o-Lantern before midnight, a terrifying principal ([[Dylan Baker]]) with a serial killer attitude teaches one neighbor the true meaning of Halloween, Laurie ([[Academy Award]]-winner [[Anna Paquin]]), a young woman dressed as little red riding hood, is stalked by a mysterious hooded figure at a local Halloween Festival; a group of pranksters goes too far and discovers the horrifying truth buried in a local urban legend of a school bus massacre; and a cantankerous old hermit ([[Brian Cox]]), is visited by a strange trick-or-treater (Sam) with a few bones to pick. |
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:::American (that apparently includes ''all'' of North America) usage always demands periods after abbreviated titles. No period is strictly British usage, and that of and most of its colonies and former recent colonies. [[User:Softlavender|Softlavender]] 11:05, 30 March 2007 (UTC) |
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Costumes and candy, ghouls and goblins, monsters and mayhem...the tricks and treats of Halloween turn deadly as strange creatures of every variety—human and otherwise—try to survive the scariest night of the year. |
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==The Rituals== |
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I don't agree that Miss is old-fashioned, it's still widely used here in the UK, I would have thought it's still more common than Ms. Also, I pronounce it as mz, not mizz, am I alone in this or is this a varient pronunciation? [[User:Fabiform|fabiform]] | [[User talk:Fabiform|talk]] 14:31, 25 Apr 2004 (UTC) |
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The customs and "rituals" of the holiday were published with the film's merchandising tie-ins (namely the Sideshow Collectibles figure): |
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1. Wear a costume. |
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: I too say (and hear) '''mz'''. [[User:Njál|Njál]] 20:51, 16 October 2006 (UTC) |
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2. Hand out treats. |
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I was taught that since Ms is not an abbreviation it doesn't take a period (or full stop for those using the queen's english) Was anyone else taught that way? |
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3. Never blow out a jack o'lantern. |
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[[User:65.209.165.170|65.209.165.170]] 18:32, 4 April 2007 (UTC) |
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4. And always check your candy. |
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::I was also taught no period - basically, Ms is it's own word, it's not an abbreviation for anything; but on those occasions when it comes up it becomes clear to me that NO ONE ELSE (except 65.209.165.170) was taught that. Similar disagreements occur regarding [http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/often often]. [[User:Fitfatfighter|Fitfatfighter]] 04:16, 9 June 2007 (UTC) |
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==Cast== |
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Ms. appears to be a US usage. Ms is British usage (and Australian, New Zealand, etc). --[[User:Veracity-or-mendacity|veracity-or-mendacity]] 14:18, 30 October 2007 (UTC) |
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*[[Quinn Lord]] as Sam |
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*[[Brian Cox]] as Mr. Kreeg |
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*[[Dylan Baker]] as Steven |
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*[[Anna Paquin]] as Laurie |
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*[[Leslie Bibb]] as Emma |
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*[[Rochelle Aytes]] as Maria |
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*[[Moneca Delain]] as Janet |
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*[[Tahmoh Penikett]] as Henry |
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*[[Lauren Lee Smith]] as Danielle |
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*[[Britt McKillip]] as Marcy |
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*[[Isabelle Deluce]] as Sara |
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*[[Jean-Luc Bilodeau]] as Schrader |
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*[[Alberto Ghisi]] as Chip |
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== |
==Trailer== |
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The trailer for ''Trick 'r Treat'' was released inside the DVD release of the movie ''[[300 (film)|300]]''. It can also be found on [[YouTube]] and director Michael Dougherty's [[MySpace]] page. |
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Somewhere, I'd like to put a note to the effect that a "Miss vs Mrs" equivalent does exist for men. It's not used at all in the United States as far as I know, but I certainly remember being called by the title "Master" when I was in England. Is this still current usage, and where would be a good place to note it? It's an interesting tidbit... [[User:Isomorphic|Isomorphic]] 01:04, 19 Jun 2004 (UTC) |
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:How long is it ago that you were in England? It's certainly not in common usage anymore. Except for maybe extremely posh parts of the country. And [[Captain Pugwash]]. --[[User:Maikel|Maikel]] 14:28, 9 October 2005 (UTC) |
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::PS: according to the Wikipedia article on [[Master (form of address)]], the title has never been intended for unmarried or "virginal" men. In fact, quite to the contrary. --[[User:Maikel|Maikel]] 15:12, 10 October 2005 (UTC) |
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:::Master isn't widely used in the UK, but it's widely understood as being a male child. For example, the card game [[Happy Families]] demonstrates this readily. A lot of children still play games like these. The Warburton's website even has an interactive version! [[User:Ithika|Ithika]] 15:59, 14 June 2006 (UTC) |
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==Screenings== |
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==No Stop For The Wicked== |
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The first public screening took place at [[Harry Knowles]]' [[Butt-numb-a-thon|Butt-Numb-A-Thon]] [[film festival]] in [[Austin, Texas|Austin]], [[Texas]] on [[December 9]], [[2007]]. There will be an exclusive screening of the movie in NYC in 2008 that is rumored to come before limited release in other theaters across the country. Tickets for the NYC showing are by raffle only. A further rumor suggests the movie may be released direct to DVD as early as October 21st, but has yet to be substantiated. |
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I've just added the standard British English (without the full stop — which I'd have thought was peculiar even in U.S. English). The standard British approach is that the full stop is used to mark the cutting off of a word at that point (such as "Street" to "St."), but not otherwise (so "Saint" to "St", as well as "Mr", "Mrs", "Dr", etc.). Needless to say, many people get it wrong, and English is no longer really taught in schools... but that's another issue. [[User:Mel Etitis|Mel Etitis]] ([[User talk:Mel Etitis|<font color="green">Μελ Ετητης</font>)]] 09:14, 17 May 2005 (UTC) |
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:Try telling that to the folks over at [[Ms. magazine]]. --[[User:Maikel|Maikel]] 15:16, 10 October 2005 (UTC) |
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==Comic adaption== |
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:American usage is not British usage. "Ms." is an American term. Therefore the article gets American usage. [[User:Softlavender|Softlavender]] 11:07, 30 March 2007 (UTC) |
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[[DC Comics]] partner [[Wildstorm|Wildstorm Comics]] was going to release a four-issue adaptation of ''Trick 'r Treat'' written by [[Marc Andreyko]] and illustrated by Fiona Staples. The series was originally going to be released weekly in October 2007, ending on Halloween. The series was pushed back due to the movie's backlisting. Covers are being contributed by [[Michael Dougherty]], Breehn Burns and Ragnar. |
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==Merchandise== |
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By that logic the use of Dr, Mr, Mrs, etc. should all follow the British use of these terms. And as a matter of fact Ms doesn't 'get' a full stop (i.e. period) in the UK. [[User:Donnachadh|Donnachadh]] 22:44, 26 June 2007 (UTC) |
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In addition to the comic book adaptation by WildStorm comics, other merchandise related to the film has also been announced: |
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* [[Sideshow Collectibles]] created a 15" vinyl figure based on the film's scarecrow-like main villain/antihero, named Sam. |
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== Ms., full stop (period), as per 15th ed. of Chicago == |
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''Ms. (or Ms) is a title used with the last name or full name of a woman.'' |
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* [[National Entertainment Collectibles Association]] (aka NECA) has licensed numerous categories for the film. |
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Is "[[Miss]]" or "Ms." used alone as a term of respect in [[inner city]] regions of the US? |
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--[[User:Zandperl|zandperl]] 20:00, 30 August 2005 (UTC) |
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* Palace Press and Insight Editions published a 108 page coffee table book entitled ''Trick 'r Treat: Tales of Mayhem, Mystery & Mischief''. It documents the making of the film, and includes storyboards, concept art, cast and crew biographies, and behind-the-scenes photographs. |
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:Ms. is Ms. in the U.S., just as we use Mrs. and Mr. (not Ms or Mr or Mrs -- she'd be Mrs. Miniver here!) I pronounce Ms. as miz, rhymes with whiz, liz, fizz; otherwise it's hard to say. --[[User:136.183.17.106|136.183.17.106]] 21:42, 20 September 2005 (UTC)maryinbuffalo. I also just changed and, I believe, corrected the entry for Ms. based on my memory of the evolution of the term from the 1960s til now. |
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==External links== |
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== Moved passage from article == |
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* {{imdb title|id=0862856|title=Trick 'r Treat}} |
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I've moved this addition by an anon editor to the Talk page; can anyone provide citations for these claims? |
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* {{amg title|id=1:361160|title=Trick 'r Treat}} |
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:"During the 1950s and 1960s in the United States, "Ms." was the correct form of address when writing to a woman whose marital status was unknown to the writer. (Miss was reserved for unmarried women of any age; Mrs. referred to a married woman.) Because the title Ms. did not refer to a woman's marital status, its usage was championed as [[non-sexist language]] beginning in the 1970s, by those who argue that a woman's marital status is irrelevant and should not be revealed by her title. Starting in the 1970s, many women insisted on being called ''Ms.'' because they shared that perspective. A feminist magazine chose the title [[Ms. magazine|''Ms.'']] because it did not indicate a woman's marital status. As time went on, those who preferred to be addressed as "Ms." were perceived as feminists, and those who did not choose to be so perceived avoided the term, leading to the misapprehension that "Ms." was a term coined by 1970s-era feminists and to the politicization of the term." |
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* [http://www.aintitcool.com/node/35068 ''Trick 'r Treat'' review from BNAT at AICN] |
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--[[User:Mel Etitis|Mel Etitis]] ([[User talk:Mel Etitis|<font color="green">Μελ Ετητης</font>)]] 22:38, 20 September 2005 (UTC) |
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* [http://www.film.com/movies/story/whatexactlyisabuttnumbathonpart2reviews/17685978 ''Trick 'r Treat'' review from BNAT at Film.com] |
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* [http://media.www.dailytexanonline.com/media/storage/paper410/news/2007/12/11/LifeArts/Movies.Rule.ButtNumbAThon-3141739.shtml ''Trick 'r Treat'' review from BNAT at Daily Texan] |
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* [http://my.spill.com/video/video/show?id=947994%3AVideo%3A55239&context=user ''Trick 'r Treat'' review from BNAT at Spill] |
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* [http://www.bloody-disgusting.com/film/1411/review ''Trick 'r Treat'' review at Bloody Disgusting] |
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* [http://myspace.com/officialmikedougherty Director MySpace Page] |
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{{DEFAULTSORT:Trick 'r Treat}} |
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==Pronunciation== |
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[[Category:2008 films]] |
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Here's something that I can't get my mind around: what's the point in introducing a new term "Ms" that is pronounced exactly like "Miss", i. e. the term one tries to deprecate? Why not just use "Mrs." [MISSIS] for all women, regardless of their marital status? --[[User:Maikel|Maikel]] 14:44, 9 October 2005 (UTC) |
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[[Category:American films]] |
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: Although 'Ms' can be pronunced like 'Miss', it is not necessarily so. Most people pronoucne the S as a Z, and many people pronounce the vowel like in '''A'''bout, rather than in Miss. Also, Ms is trying to depricate not only Miss, but also Mrs, so what would be the point in using a new term Mrs that is pronounced (and written) exactly like Mrs, i.e. the term one tries to depricate? Why not just use 'Miss' (with a small spelling change and perhaps a pronunciation change, to reduce the chance of confusion) for all women, regardless of their marital status? —[[User:Cassowary|Felix the Cassowary]] <span class="usertalk">([[User talk:Cassowary|<span title="Ae hI: ja" class="IPA">ɑe hɪː jɐ</span>]])</span> 00:28, 11 October 2005 (UTC) |
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[[Category:English-language films]] |
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::Thanks for the info on pronunciation. As for the substitution of "Miss" and "Mrs" by "Ms", my position is that the simple deprecation of "Miss" -- i. e. the general usage of "Mrs" for all women regardless of their marital status -- would have been the better and far easier solution; incidentally, and for instance, this is how the problem has been addressed in France and Germany. --[[User:Maikel|Maikel]] 13:23, 5 November 2005 (UTC) |
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[[Category:2000s horror films]] |
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[[Category:Wildstorm Comics titles]] |
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[[Category:Horror comics]] |
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[[Category:Comic book limited series]] |
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[[Category:Films shot in Vancouver]] |
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[[Category:Legendary Pictures films]] |
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[[it:Trick 'r Treat]] |
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:::Dear Maikel -- "Ms." is NEVER pronounced "Miss." To do so would invalidate the creation of the term in the first place. It is always pronounced "Mizz." To pronounce it other wise is incorrect. [[User:Softlavender|Softlavender]] 11:11, 30 March 2007 (UTC) |
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==Ms used as early as 1700s== |
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I was surprised to see that the article says Ms was used as early as the 1700s. I have seen 'mistress' and 'Mrs' used in that period as a respectful title but without implications of marital status, but have never seen 'Ms'. I checked the OED whose earliest reference is "1932 N.Y. Times 29 May III. 2/8 In addressing by letter a woman whose marital status is in doubt, should one write ‘M's’ or ‘Miss’?". Any citations for earlier usage? [[User:Bluewave|Bluewave]] 14:24, 1 February 2006 (UTC) |
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:I agree with you. Neither the OED nor Merriam-Webster has a pre-20th C citation. The current version of the Wikipedia article contradicts itself, going on to say that "The use of Ms as a title was conceived by Sheila Michaels in 1961" (which implies that the modern use was conceived completely independently of whatever was or wasn't done sporadically in the 1700s, and that the previous paragraph was therefore wrong to deny that the use of Ms was the invention of modern feminism). Furthermore, the notion that the use of Ms as a title was conceived in 1961 appears to be untrue, given the OED citation that you give. -[[User:86.134.90.205|86.134.90.205]] 23:54, 15 March 2007 (UTC) |
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== Miss is not "old fashioned" and Mr/Master == |
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In the UK, Miss is most certainly not old fashioned or out of use. Admittedly I've never worked in a high level office situation of sorts, but I've only personally known 1 woman who went by "Ms" and she was a widow who used it to avoid awkward questions about her husband. In the way some of my girl friends use it, I would assume that "Miss" is actually kind of used with the pride of being young, beautiful and free. |
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When I was a child I was always referred to as "Master" and it is an option on forms that young people may fill out. Unfortunately, my bank and everything else I was signed up to changed me to "Mr" on my 16th birthday (when you become an independant adult in the UK). Rather than campaigng for Ms, I'd rather campaign for Master so that I don't always have to answer the phone with "which Mr MacFarlane?". |
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:You're quite right. I do database work for a UK company that takes sales orders directly from customers over the internet. According to our records, far, far more female customers call themselves Miss than Ms. -[[User:86.134.90.205|86.134.90.205]] 23:55, 15 March 2007 (UTC) |
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In Australia, it's considered polite to use Ms when you don't know a woman's preference. I know many women who are insist on being a Ms, while others still prefer Miss or Mrs. Personally I would take offence at being addressed as Miss (since I am not a flighty sixteen year old) or Mrs (since although I am married, I do not use my husbands surname). Oooh yes. I'm one of those nasty feminists. --[[User:Veracity-or-mendacity|veracity-or-mendacity]] 14:31, 30 October 2007 (UTC) |
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== Spanish ''Señora''/''Señorita == |
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The article mentions that the non-sexist form of address in Spanish is ''señora'', but it's been my understanding that if I do not know a woman's marital status (or whether she's a virgin or not, which is supposedly also used as a distinction between ''señora'' and ''señorita''), the safest route is always to use ''señorita'', even if it's an 80-year-old woman. <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/168.7.222.240|168.7.222.240]] ([[User talk:168.7.222.240|talk]]) 19:44, 10 January 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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== Portuguese ''Senhorita'' == |
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Just like British and American English present different ways of addressing, however minor they may be, so it happens with Portuguese. Portuguese as spoken in Portugal presents important differences from Portuguese as spoken in Brazil. As such, a Brazilian would call a young unmarried woman as ''senhorita'', but not a Portuguese, who would say ''menina''. |
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Since this is the first time I'm doing any sort of editing at Wikipedia, I feel a bit uncertain about editing the article. However, the examples at the end ought to have the Portuguese with the two words, ''senhorita / menina''. |
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Sarai |
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--[[User:85.240.249.102|85.240.249.102]] 18:45, 22 September 2006 (UTC) |
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== Citations - problem with spacing == |
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For some reason the citation I gave has irregular spacing in the "Notes" section - there's an enormous space between two of the words ("Cultural" and "Heritage"). Does anyone know how to fix it? --[[User:DearPrudence|DearPrudence]] 02:52, 14 December 2006 (UTC) |
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== "The tape was erased for re-use by volunteers who regarded the Women's Movement as a joke." == |
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Removed as the specifics of this interview aren't relevant to the subject matter. [[User:195.24.29.51|195.24.29.51]] 13:15, 12 February 2007 (UTC) |
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==Inaccuracies and odd UK slant of article== |
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Ms. is an American invention. Why is this written with a very clear and noticeable UK slant, even mentioning the titles of nobility in the first sentence? Why are style standards quoted from UK publications and not American? |
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And why is it claimed that most women prefer to style themselves Miss or Mrs.? That's clearly incorrect. |
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Bottom line: As "Ms." is an American word, this article needs Americn punctuation, American citations, and American usages. [[User:Softlavender|Softlavender]] 09:51, 30 March 2007 (UTC) |
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::PS: Done. Article so edited. [[User:Softlavender|Softlavender]] 10:19, 30 March 2007 (UTC) |
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Softlavender, where does it say Wikipedia articles should take the US usage as default? I seem to recall the directive to be merely to keep British or US usage consistent within an article, however in this case I think it could be argued - since the article is a discussion of the term itself - that it should contain mention both usages. However, it appears someone else has already seen the need and fixed that already. |
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Also, I've also listed a reference to a US source regarding usage of Ms. to keep you happy. --[[User:Veracity-or-mendacity|veracity-or-mendacity]] 14:27, 30 October 2007 (UTC) |
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:Hi -- Nowhere did I state that U.S. usage is or should be Wikipedia default -- only that this article about an American word should be U.S. usage except where British usage is described. Also, it was I (not "someone") that retained the British usage when Britain is discusssed -- you can verify that by the versions I produced. Lastly, thank you very much for providing a U.S. citation. All of my reference books (e.g. CMS) were lost in a move. [[User:Softlavender|Softlavender]] ([[User talk:Softlavender|talk]]) 04:18, 5 December 2007 (UTC) |
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== Teacher called "Miss" == |
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Someone has requested a citation for "... British school children may also address female teachers as Miss regardless of marital status." This is a simple fact of British society and, in my opinion, does not need a citation to support it although I can understand non-Brits questioning this. Finding material that demonstrates this and including proof that the teacher is indeed married may be difficult. <br />Laurie Lee's short story ''Village School'' features the crabby Miss B and her successor Miss Wardley. The children address Miss Wardley saying "Oh, miss, please miss, can I go round the back?" and "Please, miss, I got to stay 'ome tomorrow...". Does anyone know of a suitable citation where a married teacher is addressed as "Miss"? <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/84.178.181.71|84.178.181.71]] ([[User talk:84.178.181.71|talk]]) 11:39, 4 November 2007 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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==I fixed the pronunciation== |
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There was a second pronunciation listed for the schwa sound instead of the short i sound. The schwa sound is incorrect -- I've never heard it pronounced that way in 37 years, and I can find no printed substantiation of that, so I removed it. (Besides, as far as I am aware, the schwa sound occurs in polysyllabic words, not in single-syllable words.) [[User:Softlavender|Softlavender]] ([[User talk:Softlavender|talk]]) 04:47, 5 December 2007 (UTC) |
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:It's often pronounced with the schwa sound in the UK. Although it is a single-syllable word, it doesn't have a written vowel, so a lot of people pronounce it without a vowel.[[User:Bluewave|Bluewave]] ([[User talk:Bluewave|talk]]) 12:45, 10 December 2007 (UTC) |
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:I've been looking around for substantiation of this and there certainly some examples where it is rendered phonetically as "muz", which I take to be an attempt at the schwa sound. For example, [http://www.gardening.co.uk/forum/forummessages/mps/dt/4/UTN/1173/last/1/V/1/SP/332145698778330351558 "Don't call me Muz"], [http://www.gentlemenranters.com/9.html "Muz Germaine Greer"], [http://www.englishforums.com/English/MsMrsMiss/2/qgww/Post.htm "I've always pronounced Ms as muzz"]. [[User:Bluewave|Bluewave]] ([[User talk:Bluewave|talk]]) 13:45, 10 December 2007 (UTC) |
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==Plural== |
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The plural of mister is messrs. What is the plural of ms? --[[User:Camaeron|Camaeron]] ([[User talk:Camaeron|talk]]) 20:31, 19 February 2008 (UTC) |
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:*''Mss.'' or ''Mses.'' according to http://www.merriam-webster.com -- [[User:DanielPenfield|DanielPenfield]] ([[User talk:DanielPenfield|talk]]) 16:24, 20 February 2008 (UTC) |
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==The default for business correspondence...== |
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I feel this should be clarified by the addition of '...in the USA'; it is unwarranted when applied to the UK. The citation for that point - 'Emily Post Etiquette Institute' - is also inaccurate for localities outside the USA. Strangely the article includes (further down) 'citation needed' for the fact that usage in the UK is sparse to say the least (outside of the BBC), yet I struggle to see how one can possibly provide a definitive citation aside from the fact that anyone in the UK would simply know it to be true (any online 'citation' would be no more useful or applicable than the Emily Post page). Yet twice this article suggests that Ms. is a universal standard for business correspondence. This is just not true in the UK (and I suspect anywhere outside the USA) except among the 'right-on' brigade. [[Special:Contributions/82.36.75.208|82.36.75.208]] ([[User talk:82.36.75.208|talk]]) 14:38, 29 March 2008 (UTC) [[User:xyster|xyster]] |
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:What ''is'' the UK default? If you're writing a letter to a businesswoman in the UK, do you default to Mrs or Miss? Or do you actually have to waste time finding out if she's married? [[User:Ariadne55|Ariadne55]] ([[User talk:Ariadne55|talk]]) 16:07, 29 March 2008 (UTC) |
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:Agree with 82.36.75.208, although I would go further to say that to claim that some stylistic choice is 'the default for business correspondance', whether in the UK or the world at large, is highly POV, and pretty ill-defined to boot. Last time I checked, not everyone writes according to the same standards. Please (Ariadne55), don't edit the article to assert that it is the 'default for business correspondance' until we can achieve a consensus. Also: some website's (heavily prescriptivist) guidelines on what ''should'' be used in correspondance is not a good source for what ''is actually'' used, as in the claim it is being used to support, regardless of how "well-respected" '''you reckon''' it is. [[Special:Contributions/219.79.186.13|219.79.186.13]] ([[User talk:219.79.186.13|talk]]) 09:26, 27 May 2008 (UTC) |
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::There are accepted standards for business correspondence. For instance, one would not send out a résumé on a purple index card. Emily Post's site is a perfectly reasonable cite; I've added a wikilink to show that. If you don't accepted the Emily Post Institute as an etiquette source, what etiquette expert would you suggest? The word "claims" is POV. I've changed it to "states", which is neutral. I've limited the quote to the U.S., though 82.36.75.208 never did respond about what businesspeople in the UK do. <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Ariadne55|Ariadne55]] ([[User talk:Ariadne55|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Ariadne55|contribs]]) 12:59, 27 May 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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::::::(I am [[Special:Contributions/219.79.186.13|219.79.186.13]]) I like the current revision, although I disagree that "claims" is POV in any way, as it is true that the source makes that claim. However, I would say that "states" is largely interchangable, so it's simply a matter of taste. Also, I'd be very comfortable removing "In the US," as the source makes no reference to geogrphical regions, as far as I can see. There is a superfluous period: I'll remove that, and leave "In the US", so you can discard it if you wish to. Few comments: a statement like "There are accepted standards for business correspondence. For instance, one would not send out a résumé on a purple index card." is fine in Talk, but carries no weight in actual articles unless you have (excellent, considering the broadness of the claim) sources to back it up. The thing is, unless you have something such as a wide-ranging survey, a statement like that can only really be treated as your opinion, or as [[WP:OR]]. Even then, the only way to really reduce POV to a reasonable level is to directly state something along the lines of <A study conducted in YYYY by ORGANISATION concluded that "DIRECT QUOTE">. [[User:Gonelegit|Gonelegit]] ([[User talk:Gonelegit|talk]]) 15:49, 28 May 2008 (UTC) |
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== French use for Madame/Mademoiselle questioned == |
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As a francophone, I would like to seriously question the affirmation that the word "madame" is used for both married and unmarried women. It's a rather clumsy faux-pas to use the term "madame" for an unmarried woman and one is held to use "mademoiselle" when your common sense suggests that the person is unmarried (clued in by age or other factors) or when told the person goes under the honourific "mademoiselle". For instance, you would never employ the term "madame" for a late-teen or early twenties woman unless you know for a fact she is married. Address her as "madame" and she likely would correct you on the spot with a "ah non, c'est mademoiselle". |
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:We don't have a citation for that claim (or the parallel claims for other European languages). So I've removed it. Here it is for discussion. |
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::''In other [[Europe]]an languages, non-sexist usage in this regard usually amounts to using words more or less equivalent to ''Mrs.'' (''madame'', [[French language|Fr.]]; ''señora'', [[Spanish language|Es.]]; ''senhora'', [[Portuguese language|Pt.]]; ''signora'', [[Italian language|It.]]; ''Frau'', [[German language|De.]]; ''bean-uasal'', [[Irish language|Ga.]] and [[Scottish Gaelic language|Gd.]]) for both married and unmarried women, and whether they take their husband's name or not. {{Fact|date=October 2007}}This makes sense as these are usually the direct feminine equivalents of the male counterparts (''monsieur'', Fr.; ''señor'', Es.; ''senhor'', Pt.; ''signore'', It.; ''Herr'', De.; ''máistir'', Ga.; ''maighstir'', Gd.), whereas the equivalent of ''Miss'' is a diminutive of the female equivalent (''mademoiselle'', Fr.; ''señorita'', Es.; ''menina/senhorita'', Pt.; ''signorina'', It.; ''Fräulein'', De.; ''ógbhean-uasal'', Ga.; ''maighdeann-uasal'', Gd.).'' |
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:Anyone want to comment on (and provide citations for) the forms of address in these languages? --[[User:Fubar Obfusco|FOo]] ([[User talk:Fubar Obfusco|talk]]) 17:35, 9 October 2008 (UTC) |
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Revision as of 14:10, 10 October 2008
 |
| Trick 'r Treat | |
|---|---|
 Promotional poster | |
| Directed by | Michael Dougherty |
| Written by | Michael Dougherty |
| Produced by | Michael Dougherty Bryan Singer Thomas Tull Jon Jashni Bill Fay Dan Harris Alex Garcia Peter Lhotka |
| Starring | Brian Cox Dylan Baker Anna Paquin Leslie Bibb Rochelle Aytes Tahmoh Penikett |
| Cinematography | Glen MacPherson |
| Edited by | Robert Ivison |
| Music by | Douglas Pipes |
| Distributed by | Warner Bros. Legendary Pictures |
Release date | 2009 |
Running time | 100 minutes |
| Country |  United States |
| Language | English |
| Budget | $12 million |
Trick 'r Treat is an upcoming horror film. It was written and directed by Michael Dougherty and based on his short film Season's Greetings. Originally slated for an October 5, 2007 release, it was announced in September 2007 that the movie has been pushed back to an undetermined 2009 date. The film has been rated R by the MPAA for horror violence, some sexuality/nudity, and language. Warner Bros. and Legendary Pictures are slated to release the film at an undetermined date.
Plot
The film is an anthology of five Halloween-related scary stories. One thing that ties the stories together is the presense of Sam, a mysterious pint-sized trick-or-treater with a burlap pumpkin mask who makes some appearance in all the stories, and who may only be costumed as a child...
It is said that Halloween is the night when the dead rise to walk among us, and other unspeakable things roam free. The rituals of All Hallows Eve were devised to protect us from their evil mischief, and one small town is about to be taught a terrifying lesson that some traditions are best not forgotten.
Nothing is what it seems when a suburban couple learns the dangers of blowing out a Jack-o-Lantern before midnight, a terrifying principal (Dylan Baker) with a serial killer attitude teaches one neighbor the true meaning of Halloween, Laurie (Academy Award-winner Anna Paquin), a young woman dressed as little red riding hood, is stalked by a mysterious hooded figure at a local Halloween Festival; a group of pranksters goes too far and discovers the horrifying truth buried in a local urban legend of a school bus massacre; and a cantankerous old hermit (Brian Cox), is visited by a strange trick-or-treater (Sam) with a few bones to pick.
Costumes and candy, ghouls and goblins, monsters and mayhem...the tricks and treats of Halloween turn deadly as strange creatures of every variety—human and otherwise—try to survive the scariest night of the year.
The Rituals
The customs and "rituals" of the holiday were published with the film's merchandising tie-ins (namely the Sideshow Collectibles figure):
1. Wear a costume.
2. Hand out treats.
3. Never blow out a jack o'lantern.
4. And always check your candy.
Cast
- Quinn Lord as Sam
- Brian Cox as Mr. Kreeg
- Dylan Baker as Steven
- Anna Paquin as Laurie
- Leslie Bibb as Emma
- Rochelle Aytes as Maria
- Moneca Delain as Janet
- Tahmoh Penikett as Henry
- Lauren Lee Smith as Danielle
- Britt McKillip as Marcy
- Isabelle Deluce as Sara
- Jean-Luc Bilodeau as Schrader
- Alberto Ghisi as Chip
Trailer
The trailer for Trick 'r Treat was released inside the DVD release of the movie 300. It can also be found on YouTube and director Michael Dougherty's MySpace page.
Screenings
The first public screening took place at Harry Knowles' Butt-Numb-A-Thon film festival in Austin, Texas on December 9, 2007. There will be an exclusive screening of the movie in NYC in 2008 that is rumored to come before limited release in other theaters across the country. Tickets for the NYC showing are by raffle only. A further rumor suggests the movie may be released direct to DVD as early as October 21st, but has yet to be substantiated.
Comic adaption
DC Comics partner Wildstorm Comics was going to release a four-issue adaptation of Trick 'r Treat written by Marc Andreyko and illustrated by Fiona Staples. The series was originally going to be released weekly in October 2007, ending on Halloween. The series was pushed back due to the movie's backlisting. Covers are being contributed by Michael Dougherty, Breehn Burns and Ragnar.
Merchandise
In addition to the comic book adaptation by WildStorm comics, other merchandise related to the film has also been announced:
- Sideshow Collectibles created a 15" vinyl figure based on the film's scarecrow-like main villain/antihero, named Sam.
- National Entertainment Collectibles Association (aka NECA) has licensed numerous categories for the film.
- Palace Press and Insight Editions published a 108 page coffee table book entitled Trick 'r Treat: Tales of Mayhem, Mystery & Mischief. It documents the making of the film, and includes storyboards, concept art, cast and crew biographies, and behind-the-scenes photographs.
