Talk:Panchen Lama and 1980 VFL season: Difference between pages

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{{Infobox VFL Premiership Season
{{WikiProject Buddhism
| year = 1980
|class=start
| image =
|importance=
| imagesize =
| caption =
| teams =
| premiers = {{AFL Ric}}
| count =
| minor premiers = {{AFL Gee}}
| mpcount =
| matches =
| top goal scorer = [[Michael Roach]] <small>({{AFL Ric}})</small>
| brownlow medalist = [[Kelvin Templeton]] <small>({{AFL Foo}})</small>
}}
}}
Results and statistics for the '''[[Australian Football League|Victorian Football League]] season of 1980'''.
{{WikiProject Tibetan Buddhism
|class=start
|importance=
}}

I think the [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4551425.stm BBC link] was good, but needed NPOV title, I was changing it to read "BBC News article - " Tibet's missing spiritual guide" but I got edit conflicted. [[User:Wiki alf|Alf]] 00:45, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
:But it doesn't need to be on the Erdini Qoigyijabu page. [[User:Wiki alf|Alf]] 00:47, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
As a compromise to an apparent edit war, I am including the BBC News article link, with a suitably NPOV title on the '''Panchem Lama''' article's external links section, as I feel it is relevant here, and not relevant on the Erdini Qoigyijabu article. Please sort it out on the talk pages before any further revert war. [[User:Wiki alf|Alf]] 01:03, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

I suggest that discussions on [[Panchen Lama]], [[Gedhun Choekyi Nyima, 11th Panchen Lama]] and [[Erdini Qoigyijabu]] be held on this page for ease, with either notes or redirects to go here.
As I mentioned elsewhere, I think the BBC article is worth using, personally I think it belongs on the Gedhun Choekyi Nyima article.[[User:Wiki alf|Alf]] 01:29, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

----

I have no strong opinion about Gedhun Choekyi Nyima, but in seems quite inappropriate to title the article about Erdini Qoigyijabu [[Erdini Qoigyijabu, 11th Panchen Lama]] considering the controversy involved. It's also unnecessary: there's no other Erdini Qoigyijabu that I'm aware of. - [[User:Nat Krause|Nat Krause]]<sup>([[User talk:Nat Krause|Talk!]])</sup> 00:07, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

:If we had the "11th Panchen Lama" suffix only at the Gedhun Choekyi Nyima article, it would be biased towards the Tibetan side. I suggested awhile ago to have neither article have the suffix, but [[User:Ran]] said that he thought it was fine the way was. --[[User:Khoikhoi|Khoikhoi]] 00:19, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

::Well, I suppose you're right, but I say that with the caveat that think it would not be unfairly biased to list the title on [[Gedhun Choekyi Nyima]], ''if'' we could clearly establish that he does, indeed, represent the Tibetan side. These are, after all, Tibetan Buddhist religious leaders; favouring the Tibetan side in this case is like favouring the Roman Catholic side on who is Pope and Supreme Pontiff, which is what we do when have an article titled [[Pope Benedict XVI]], but refuse to move [[Lucian Pulvermacher]] to [[Pope Pius XIII]]. However, in this case, there is no neutral way to determine which of these two young men is more authentically represents the Tibetan side. That being the case, I propose to drop the title from both of them. - [[User:Nat Krause|Nat Krause]]<sup>([[User talk:Nat Krause|Talk!]])</sup> 04:25, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

:::I think that's a good idea as well. Should I contact an admin? --[[User:Khoikhoi|Khoikhoi]] 04:57, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

::::No need, my South African friend. I already got an admin to move the GCN article, and the Erdini Q article can be done by commoners such as ourselves. - [[User:Nat Krause|Nat Krause]]<sup>([[User talk:Nat Krause|Talk!]])</sup> 05:45, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

:::::Heh, I'm actually American - I just liked the sound of the name. ;) --[[User:Khoikhoi|Khoikhoi]] 06:04, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
== Big Issue Ahead ==
In case you don't know, this will be used in the unfortunate years to come. The Panchen Lama helps find the Dalai Lama's next rebirth. The chinese will use that little poor boy they are holding and naming Panchen Lama. I feel so bad for him! The Panchen Lama was recognized by HH Dalai Lama and that is the only Panchen Lama the Tibetan people will accept. He has gone missing. Do you know that the previous Panchen Lama was poisoned?
I see Nat Krause (american) and Khoikhoi(unknown) are regular editors here. Let me give you some more info then. It is a BIG issue for our next Dalai Lama. People expect Him to be born in Tibet, not India. The Panchen Lama is suppose to help find Him. I hope you see why the chinese were so helpful in finding and supporting THEIR CHOICE of Panchen Lama. The Communist Party is supporting a reincarnate lama? What is up with that? Have you ever heard of Communist Buddhist? They think they can fool us all! But no. We are watching. We have to show determination. We have to stay true to the Tibetan people, not the communists who do not even accept Buddhism and have other motivation: to have a chinese controled "dalai lama" and "panchen lama" of their choice so they can control TAR. IT DOESN'T WORK THIS WAY! Please open your eyes! Any questions, let me know! [[User:My Tibet|Me]] 03:59, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

== Panchen Ötrul Rinpoche ==

According to this website (http://www.jampaling.org/rinpoche.html) Panchen Ötrul Rinpoche "was selected as the final candidate of the re-incarnation of the Panchen Lama who had died in 1937". Does this mean he should have been the 10th Panchen Lama?

:It depends on what you mean by "should", of course, but this is not the position taken by any authoritative figure that I'm aware of. The situation, as I understand it, was that Panchen Ötrul was the candidate favoured by the Dalai Lama's faction, but they never officially declared that he was the 10th Panchen Lama. [[Choekyi Gyaltsen]] was the candidate supported by the previous Panchen Lama's faction (bear in mind that the [[9th Panchen Lama]] had been on terrible terms with the [[13th Dalai Lama]]) and who also had the patronage of the Chinese. In 1951, when the Chinese Communists took control of Tibet (but well before the Dalai Lama fled to India in 1959), the Dalai Lama accepted Choekyi Gyaltsen as Panchen Lama under Chinese pressure (which was possible because the selection of Panchen Ötrul was never formally finalized), and Panchen Ötrul was given a consolation prize. Apparently, neither the Dalai Lama nor the Chinese nor anybody else has questioned this result since then.&mdash;[[User:Nat Krause|Nat Krause]]<sup>([[User talk:Nat Krause|Talk!]])</sup> 19:36, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

::Ah, I see. I hadn't realised the complexity of the situation! Thank you.

== Title of Article? ==

Shouldn't this actually be moved to [[Panchen Erdeni]]? I think that's the proper name for the co-religious leader of Tibet along with the [[Dalai Lama]]. Comments? --[[User:Patar knight|Patar knight]] 23:29, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

:"Proper" in what sense? I am aware that Erdeni or Panchen Erdeni is one of the titles used by this lama; specifically, "Erdeni" is the Manchu word for "precious", conferred as a title for the Panchen Lama by one of the Qing emperors. But, what makes this title more proper than another? In any event, "Panchen Lama" is by far the most common English term for the subject, so only in an extreme circumstance should we consider using something else.&mdash;[[User:Nat Krause|Nat Krause]]<sup>([[User talk:Nat Krause|Talk!]]·[[Special:Contributions/Nat Krause|What have I done?]])</sup> 00:44, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

::I am aware that the phrase "Panchen Lama" is the most common one (as a simple Google search will reveal), and only specialists and those well-versed in Tibetan history and religion will use "Panchen Erdeni." However, the Panchen Lama was given his titles and temporal powers by the [[Kangxi Emperor]], combining [[Sanskrit]], Tibetan, and Mongolian. IMHO, I think that this at leasts deserves a brief mention in the introduction, if not a subsection in the article. I must of overeacted to not finding the phrase in the article, but you are right. This is far more common. --[[User:Patar knight|Patar knight]] 17:00, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

== As had the Dalai Lama himself ==

This seems confusing:

"However, after the Dalai Lama announced Gedhun Choekyi Nyima as the new Panchen Lama, Chinese authorities arrested Chadrel Rinpoche, who was replaced with Sengchen Lobsang Gyaltsen. Sengchen had been a political opponent of the previous Panchen Lama, as had the Dalai Lama himself."

The 14th Dalai Lama was a political opponent of the 10th Panchen Lama, who he said did the best he could, given the situation? Just hoping one of you guys to read this over and check if it makes sense or if it's not worded correctly. Thanks. --[[User:Venice|Venice]] 22:02, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

:Dear Venice: Thank you for pointing out the problem. I think I have fixed it by just removing the phrase: "as had the Dalai Lama himself." I don't think it is fair to say the Dalai Lama was an opponent of the previous Panchen Lama other than when he was being used by the Chinese (actions he later repudiated publicly and were presumably made under duress). Anyone else care to comment on this issue? Cheers, [[User:John Hill|John Hill]] 22:43, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

::I'm not entirely sure what the issue is here. The Panchen Lama and his entourage had a rivalry with the Dalai Lama and his entourage that went back to before either the 10th Panchen Lama or the 14th Dalai Lama were born. The 9th Panchen Lama had fled Tibet in the 20s and had consistently tried to organize a return with Chinese military support. The Nationalist government considered the Panchen Lama enough of an ally that they invited him to flee to Taiwan with them, but his people instead decided to throw in their lot with the new government. Tashilhunpo was a diligent Chinese ally throughout the 1950s, and the Panchen Lama replaced the Dalai Lama as figurehead leader of the government after the latter went into exile in 1959. So, yes, the Dalai Lama and the Panchen Lama were certainly political rivals. I still think the sentence was a bit misleading as written in its comparison of the Dalai Lama and Sengchen. The important thing about Sengchen is not just that he was an opponent of the Panchen Lama's, but that he was a ''traitor'' who reneged on the loyalty he owed; as opposed to the Dalai Lama, who had been part of a different faction from the beginning.&mdash;[[User:Nat Krause|Nat Krause]]<sup>([[User talk:Nat Krause|Talk!]]·[[Special:Contributions/Nat Krause|What have I done?]])</sup> 00:45, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

:Hi Nat! There is no doubt that there was open rivalry between the 13th Dalai Lama and the 9th Panchen Lama who finally moved to China where he stayed until he died. However, in the case we are discussing it is a matter of the 10th Panchen Lama, [[Gedhun Choekyi Nyima]], and the present Dalai Lama. Gedhun Choekyi Nyima was under the control of the Chinese from his childhood on - but, when he could, he spoke out strongly against the treatment of the Tibetan people (and quite possibly died for it). So, I don't think it is possible to say he was a political opponent of the Dalai Lama - just that he was used at times by the Chinese against his will to try to drive a wedge between the two in the minds of the Tibetan people.

:For a good outline of the sad story of how the Chinese tried to manipulate the 10th Panchen Lama, and how he rebelled against them in 1962 (listing atrocities against the Tibetan people in a 70,000 character catalogue in which he said that he believed Tibet would regain its independence and the Dalai lama would return as its leader in glory). He was thrown in jail for 14-15 years after this. Again, in 1989, "His Holiness the 10th Panchen Lama was finally allowed to return to Shigatse, where He addressed a jubilant crowd of 30,000. He described the suffering of Tibet under the yoke of occupation in terms reminiscent of the 70,000 character petition." Five days later, he is said to have suffered a massive heart attack, or have been poisoned, and died at the age of 50. See: [http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A644320], and Mayhew, Bradley and Kohn, Michael. (2005) ''Tibet''. 6th Edition, pp. 176-177. Lonely Planet Publications. ISBN 1-74059-523-8. Also see the discussions by the present Dalai Lama of his regret about the differences between their predecessors, and his early friendly meetings with the 10th Panchen Lama in, ''My Land and My people: The Autobiography of His Holiness the Dalai Lama'', pp. 95-98. (1962). Edited by David Howarth. Weidenfield and Nicolson, London. Hope this all makes sense. Cheers, [[User:John Hill|John Hill]] 04:42, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

::I think that, in pre-1959/1962 Tibet, the concepts of "Dalai Lama" and "Panchen Lama" are best understood as political parties rather than as individuals. The 10th Panchen Lama did various important things while he was a minor; for instance, he sided with the Communists instead of fleeing to Taiwan while he was still a small child. Basically no Tibetans in Tibet&mdash;except for the rebels&mdash;were doing anything in the 1950s or 1960s without Chinese influence. This logic would exculpate Sengchen, who not only prospered as a result of betraying the Panchen Lama, but quite possibly saved his own skin. The fact that the Panchen Lama tried in his own way to serve the Tibetan people, and the fact that he showed enormous courage in writing the 70,000 character petition, don't say anything one way or the other about whether he was a political rival of the Dalai Lama's (it also leaves out the fact that the Panchen Lama spent most of the 1980s living in a mansion in Beijing on the Communist Party's dime, although I don't think that's directly relevant either). Nor does the fact that the Dalai Lama regrets&mdash;with 20/20 hindsight&mdash;their predecessors' relationship change what happened. Friendly meetings are beside the point, as well&mdash;for instance, Kennedy and Johnson were rivals, but that doesn't mean they started slapping each other when they met, or anything like that.&mdash;[[User:Nat Krause|Nat Krause]]<sup>([[User talk:Nat Krause|Talk!]]·[[Special:Contributions/Nat Krause|What have I done?]])</sup> 19:28, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
When 9th Panchen died, there was also a controversy over the reincarnation of 10th Panchen similar to today's situation, both Lhasa and Panchen's council declared their own choice. And the peace contract of 1951 included recognizing the KMT approved Panchen.
And what's more, the team to look for 11th Panchen reincarnation had secret contact with Dalai with the permission of CCP reporting the process and candidates, as a gesture of reconciliation. Sadly，knowing what the consequence would be, Dalai declared his choice before CCP, provoking CCP to choose another reincarnation by the traditional ritual of drawing straws in public. <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Celestialsz|Celestialsz]] ([[User talk:Celestialsz|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Celestialsz|contribs]]) 10:42, 2 April 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
The official explanation is that Nyima's parents lied about the boy's birthday (Apr.25.1989), it turns out the boy was conceived before 10th Panchen died in Jan.28,1989, which is clear in the table listed here. Current Panchen born in Feb.13.1990 seems a more reasonable candidate for a reincarnation. <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Celestialsz|Celestialsz]] ([[User talk:Celestialsz|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Celestialsz|contribs]]) 10:51, 2 April 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

==Ridiculous claims of the CCP==
I would like to point out that "Dalai" and "Panchen" are parts of titles - not personal names. It is not only incorrect, but disrespectful, to refer to the Dalai Lama as "Dalai" or the Panchen Lama as "Panchen".

Far more important though - it is impossible that the CCP, avowedly a party supporting atheism, should or could have any acceptable role in the choosing of a "reincarnation". It just doesn't make any sense at all and shows that notes like the one above are nothing but crude attempts to legitimise the ridiculous and unsupportable claims of the CCP on this matter.

Silly claims that the Chinese government should have some role in picking "reincarnations" can only expose China's political agenda in Tibet and make it the focus of international ridicule.[[User:John Hill|John Hill]] ([[User talk:John Hill|talk]]) 07:52, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

== Validity ==

This article claims that the fifth dalai lama reserved the title of Panchen for his advisor. Many of the sources I've read say that it was the fourth reincarnate who did this. Anyone know?

One source that claims it was the fourth: Skakabpa, T.W.D. (1967) Tibet: A Political History. New Haven and London: Yale University Press. <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/204.14.146.98|204.14.146.98]] ([[User talk:204.14.146.98|talk]]) 01:35, 28 November 2007 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

==Fair use rationale for Image:9thPanchen.jpg==
[[Image:Nuvola apps important.svg|70px|left]]
'''[[:Image:9thPanchen.jpg]]''' is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under [[Wikipedia:Fair use|fair use]] but there is no [[Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline|explanation or rationale]] as to why its use in '''this''' Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the [[Wikipedia:Image copyright tags/Fair use|boilerplate fair use template]], you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with [[WP:FU|fair use]].

Please go to [[:Image:9thPanchen.jpg|the image description page]] and edit it to include a [[Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline |fair use rationale]]. Using one of the templates at [[Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline]] is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.


==Night Series==
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on [[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion#Images.2FMedia|criteria for speedy deletion]]. If you have any questions please ask them at the [[Wikipedia:Media copyright questions|Media copyright questions page]]. Thank you.<!-- Template:Missing rationale2 -->
{{AFL Nor}} defeated {{AFL Col}} 8.9 (57) to 7.12 (54)


==Premiership season==
[[User:BetacommandBot|BetacommandBot]] ([[User talk:BetacommandBot|talk]]) 04:21, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
===Round 1===
{{start box}}
|- bgcolor="#CCCCFF"
| '''Home team'''
| '''Home team score'''
| '''Away team'''
| '''Away team score'''
| '''Venue'''
| '''Crowd'''
| '''Date'''
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| {{AFL Haw}}
| 15.16 (106)
| '''{{AFL Ric}}'''
| '''16.15 (111)'''
| [[Princes Park Football Ground|Princes Park]]
| 21,028
| 29 March 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| {{AFL Gee}}
| 12.13 (85)
| '''{{AFL SM}}'''
| '''13.10 (88)'''
| [[Kardinia Park (Stadium)]]
| 22,685
| 29 March 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| {{AFL Ess}}
| 12.15 (87)
| '''{{AFL Nor}}'''
| '''15.10 (100)'''
| [[Windy Hill, Essendon|Windy Hill]]
| 28,811
| 29 March 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| {{AFL Foo}}
| 17.11 (113)
| '''{{AFL Fit}}'''
| '''18.17 (125)'''
| [[Western Oval]]
| 20,060
| 29 March 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| {{AFL Col}}
| 13.16 (94)
| '''{{AFL Car}}'''
| '''19.18 (132)'''
| [[Victoria Park, Melbourne|Victoria Park]]
| 29,587
| 29 March 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Mel}}'''
| '''18.14 (122)'''
| {{AFL StK}}
| 14.16 (100)
| [[VFL Park]]
| 31,859
| 29 March 1980
{{end box}}


== Compassion ==
===Round 2===
{{start box}}
|- bgcolor="#CCCCFF"
| '''Home team'''
| '''Home team score'''
| '''Away team'''
| '''Away team score'''
| '''Venue'''
| '''Crowd'''
| '''Date'''
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| {{AFL Ric}}
| 17.15 (117)
| '''{{AFL Ess}}'''
| '''17.22 (124)'''
| [[Melbourne Cricket Ground|MCG]]
| 51,548
| 5 April 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| {{AFL Nor}}
| 7.14 (56)
| '''{{AFL Col}}'''
| '''7.19 (61)'''
| [[Arden Street Oval]]
| 24,363
| 5 April 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Mel}}'''
| '''22.8 (140)'''
| {{AFL Fit}}
| 17.14 (116)
| [[VFL Park]]
| 28,802
| 5 April 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Car}}'''
| '''14.25 (109)'''
| {{AFL Gee}}
| 15.14 (104)
| [[Princes Park Football Ground|Princes Park]]
| 32,614
| 7 April 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| {{AFL StK}}
| 11.17 (83)
| '''{{AFL Haw}}'''
| '''15.26 (116)'''
| [[Moorabbin Oval]]
| 22,265
| 7 April 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL SM}}'''
| '''14.17 (101)'''
| {{AFL Foo}}
| 10.13 (73)
| [[Lake Oval]]
| 19,191
| 7 April 1980
{{end box}}


===Round 3===
I'm making some remarks here about the two articles on [[Gedhun Choekyi Nyima]] and [[Gyancain Norbu]]. Since the remarks are equally relevant to both, and I want to avoid cross-posting, and I particularly want to avoid favoring one side or another in the controversy, I'm posting it on this Talk page for Panchen Lama.
{{start box}}
|- bgcolor="#CCCCFF"
| '''Home team'''
| '''Home team score'''
| '''Away team'''
| '''Away team score'''
| '''Venue'''
| '''Crowd'''
| '''Date'''
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Ric}}'''
| '''18.20 (128)'''
| '''{{AFL StK}}'''
| '''19.14 (128)'''
| [[Melbourne Cricket Ground|MCG]]
| 37,076
| 12 April 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Gee}}'''
| '''17.17 (119)'''
| {{AFL Mel}}
| 14.9 (93)
| [[Kardinia Park (Stadium)]]
| 21,504
| 12 April 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| {{AFL Fit}}
| 14.18 (102)
| '''{{AFL Nor}}'''
| '''21.22 (148)'''
| [[Junction Oval]]
| 14,548
| 12 April 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Haw}}'''
| '''19.16 (130)'''
| {{AFL Col}}
| 16.23 (119)
| [[Princes Park Football Ground|Princes Park]]
| 27,034
| 12 April 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| {{AFL Foo}}
| 14.10 (94)
| '''{{AFL Car}}'''
| '''17.17 (119)'''
| [[Western Oval]]
| 21,434
| 12 April 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Ess}}'''
| '''24.12 (156)'''
| {{AFL SM}}
| 14.17 (101)
| [[VFL Park]]
| 33,909
| 12 April 1980
{{end box}}


===Round 4===
To improve the articles about Gedhun Choekyi Nyima and Gyancain Norbu, and to avoid edit wars, it might help for all the editors to focus on compassion for everyone concerned, especially for both of the children at the center of the controversy. The two boys were only six or seven years old, at most, when they got pulled into the power struggle. Maybe we all share the hope, or wish, that both of them are alive, healthy, and happy, and becoming thoughtful and compassionate young adults who will live long happy lives, possibly even as "great scholars".
{{start box}}
|- bgcolor="#CCCCFF"
| '''Home team'''
| '''Home team score'''
| '''Away team'''
| '''Away team score'''
| '''Venue'''
| '''Crowd'''
| '''Date'''
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| {{AFL Col}}
| 8.9 (57)
| '''{{AFL Ric}}'''
| '''16.13 (109)'''
| [[Victoria Park, Melbourne|Victoria Park]]
| 29,888
| 19 April 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Car}}'''
| '''22.18 (150)'''
| {{AFL SM}}
| 13.15 (93)
| [[Princes Park Football Ground|Princes Park]]
| 20,794
| 19 April 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| {{AFL Nor}}
| 10.9 (69)
| '''{{AFL Gee}}'''
| '''16.10 (106)'''
| [[Arden Street Oval]]
| 15,437
| 19 April 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Mel}}'''
| '''18.21 (129)'''
| {{AFL Foo}}
| 18.12 (120)
| [[Melbourne Cricket Ground|MCG]]
| 20,905
| 19 April 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL StK}}'''
| '''11.17 (83)'''
| {{AFL Ess}}
| 12.8 (80)
| [[Moorabbin Oval]]
| 30,947
| 19 April 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Haw}}'''
| '''11.19 (85)'''
| {{AFL Fit}}
| 12.10 (82)
| [[VFL Park]]
| 26,104
| 19 April 1980
{{end box}}


===Round 5===
Let's keep in mind that Gedhun Choekyi Nyima and Gyancain Norbu are both genuine human beings, whatever else they may be according to any ideology. Each deserves to be treated as a person in his own right, not merely as a symbol, a nemesis or a pawn. As a form of compassion, we could take the time to try to imagine walking in their shoes. What might it be like for either of those two young men to read about themselves on Wikipedia? Does either of them read Wikipedia? (I'm guessing few people know for certain.) How might it feel for Gedhun Choekyi Nyima to read either that he's a "political prisoner" or that "he is attending school and leading a normal life somewhere in China, and that his whereabouts are kept undisclosed to protect him"? How might it feel for Gyancain Norbu to read that he is called "a pretender" and "not genuine"? Do they edit articles, without revealing their identities? Do they communicate with each other? Could they? Will they in the future? Would they be friends or enemies? What would they write here if they could? Will they both be able and willing to answers these questions directly for us someday? We shouldn't pretend or imagine that we know more than we really know. We should realize how easily and in how many different ways we could be mistaken or unaware.
{{start box}}
|- bgcolor="#CCCCFF"
| '''Home team'''
| '''Home team score'''
| '''Away team'''
| '''Away team score'''
| '''Venue'''
| '''Crowd'''
| '''Date'''
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Gee}}'''
| '''14.10 (94)'''
| {{AFL Haw}}
| 13.11 (89)
| [[Kardinia Park (Stadium)]]
| 34,256
| 25 April 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Ric}}'''
| '''29.25 (199)'''
| {{AFL Fit}}
| 11.15 (81)
| [[Melbourne Cricket Ground|MCG]]
| 44,401
| 25 April 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Car}}'''
| '''14.19 (103)'''
| {{AFL Mel}}
| 9.20 (74)
| [[VFL Park]]
| 60,784
| 25 April 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL SM}}'''
| '''17.20 (122)'''
| {{AFL StK}}
| 7.15 (57)
| [[Lake Oval]]
| 23,003
| 26 April 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| {{AFL Ess}}
| 9.15 (69)
| '''{{AFL Col}}'''
| '''10.13 (73)'''
| [[Windy Hill, Essendon|Windy Hill]]
| 32,140
| 26 April 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Nor}}'''
| '''26.21 (177)'''
| {{AFL Foo}}
| 8.7 (55)
| [[Sydney Cricket Ground|SCG]]
| 13,476
| 27 April 1980
{{end box}}


===Round 6===
== Compassion and NPOV ==
{{start box}}
|- bgcolor="#CCCCFF"
| '''Home team'''
| '''Home team score'''
| '''Away team'''
| '''Away team score'''
| '''Venue'''
| '''Crowd'''
| '''Date'''
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| {{AFL Mel}}
| 15.14 (104)
| '''{{AFL SM}}'''
| '''19.16 (130)'''
| [[Melbourne Cricket Ground|MCG]]
| 22,487
| 3 May 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Col}}'''
| '''26.12 (168)'''
| {{AFL StK}}
| 16.12 (108)
| [[Victoria Park, Melbourne|Victoria Park]]
| 29,094
| 3 May 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Haw}}'''
| '''19.16 (130)'''
| {{AFL Foo}}
| 18.5 (113)
| [[Princes Park Football Ground|Princes Park]]
| 11,958
| 3 May 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| {{AFL Fit}}
| 16.12 (108)
| '''{{AFL Ess}}'''
| '''15.23 (113)'''
| [[Junction Oval]]
| 17,562
| 3 May 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Nor}}'''
| '''18.11 (119)'''
| {{AFL Car}}
| 12.15 (87)
| [[Arden Street Oval]]
| 24,644
| 3 May 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Ric}}'''
| '''12.16 (88)'''
| {{AFL Gee}}
| 10.17 (77)
| [[VFL Park]]
| 47,265
| 3 May 1980
{{end box}}


===Round 7===
No amount of certainty that we're completely right and another side is completely wrong will save us from making mistakes and causing harm. We need to have compassion for people on all sides. Then we'll try to improve understanding through communication, and try to treat each other fairly. One of the principles of fairness on Wikipedia is [[NPOV]].
{{start box}}
|- bgcolor="#CCCCFF"
| '''Home team'''
| '''Home team score'''
| '''Away team'''
| '''Away team score'''
| '''Venue'''
| '''Crowd'''
| '''Date'''
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| {{AFL Foo}}
| 10.10 (70)
| '''{{AFL Ric}}'''
| '''27.18 (180)'''
| [[Western Oval]]
| 16,471
| 10 May 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| {{AFL Ess}}
| 13.15 (93)
| '''{{AFL Gee}}'''
| '''16.11 (107)'''
| [[Windy Hill, Essendon|Windy Hill]]
| 23,993
| 10 May 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| {{AFL Car}}
| 14.27 (111)
| '''{{AFL Haw}}'''
| '''16.17 (113)'''
| [[Princes Park Football Ground|Princes Park]]
| 26,414
| 10 May 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| {{AFL StK}}
| 12.20 (92)
| '''{{AFL Fit}}'''
| '''18.23 (131)'''
| [[Moorabbin Oval]]
| 17,557
| 10 May 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL SM}}'''
| '''17.13 (115)'''
| {{AFL Col}}
| 13.12 (90)
| [[Lake Oval]]
| 22,375
| 10 May 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Nor}}'''
| '''24.15 (159)'''
| {{AFL Mel}}
| 10.12 (72)
| [[VFL Park]]
| 18,939
| 10 May 1980
{{end box}}


===Round 8===
Please let me make it clear at this point that I knew almost nothing about the controversy, or the two children, before reading about it on Wikipedia recently. I still know very little about it. Nevertheless, it seems clear that the articles are biased. Remember, it's OK for the editors to have a point of view. What's not OK is for them to use an article to manipulate the reader into joining their side. Using NPOV, you can try to provide readers with enough ideas and information to make their own evaluations. In other words, have compassion for the reader, respect the reader's intelligence, and rely on honesty and fairness. Whichever side you're on, if you're right, then I'm more likely to join your side if you treat me with respect than if you try to manipulate me. Since the controversy is new to me, it's too soon for me to have formed any definite opinions about it. (Here on a Talk page, I hope it's acceptable for me to say which side of the controversy I would be on if I had to choose a side at this early stage. I would be on the side of the two kids, and against them being used or abused for any power struggle, religious or political. It seems to me that any and all child-manipulators, whether they're bureaucrats, theocrats, or anyone else, should let the kids live their own lives, especially now that they're both old enough to go to college. Nevertheless, I feel compassion for the manipulators as well, who may themselves have been used for power struggles since their own childhoods.)
{{start box}}
|- bgcolor="#CCCCFF"
| '''Home team'''
| '''Home team score'''
| '''Away team'''
| '''Away team score'''
| '''Venue'''
| '''Crowd'''
| '''Date'''
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Nor}}'''
| '''15.19 (109)'''
| {{AFL SM}}
| 16.10 (106)
| [[Arden Street Oval]]
| 17,190
| 17 May 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Haw}}'''
| '''17.16 (118)'''
| {{AFL Mel}}
| 15.18 (108)
| [[Princes Park Football Ground|Princes Park]]
| 10,504
| 17 May 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Gee}}'''
| '''20.15 (135)'''
| {{AFL StK}}
| 10.12 (72)
| [[Kardinia Park (Stadium)]]
| 22,449
| 17 May 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Fit}}'''
| '''17.16 (118)'''
| '''{{AFL Col}}'''
| '''17.16 (118)'''
| [[Junction Oval]]
| 20,596
| 17 May 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Ric}}'''
| '''19.24 (138)'''
| {{AFL Car}}
| 12.13 (85)
| [[Melbourne Cricket Ground|MCG]]
| 85,659
| 17 May 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Ess}}'''
| '''22.16 (148)'''
| {{AFL Foo}}
| 10.11 (71)
| [[VFL Park]]
| 21,851
| 17 May 1980
{{end box}}


===Round 9===
For a problem with POV, consider the two contrasting versions of the situation given in the [[Gedhun Choekyi Nyima]] article: (1) that he's a "political prisoner" or (2) "that he is attending school and leading a normal life somewhere in China, and that his whereabouts are kept undisclosed to protect him." The fact that both versions are presented suggests at least some degree of neutrality. However, both versions have links, and if you follow them you discover that (1) "political prisoner" links to "political prisoner" (as you'd expect), while (2) the "...normal life..." sentence surprisingly links to "forced disappearance" where it says, "The victim is first kidnapped, then illegally detained in concentration camps, often tortured, and finally executed and the corpse hidden." That is, the link for (1) is applicable to (1), while the link for (2) is applicable to (1) and contradicts (2). It seems to me that this is biased and misleading in its effect, whatever the intention may have been (and whatever the truth may be). ("Heads I win, tails you lose.")
{{start box}}
|- bgcolor="#CCCCFF"
| '''Home team'''
| '''Home team score'''
| '''Away team'''
| '''Away team score'''
| '''Venue'''
| '''Crowd'''
| '''Date'''
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| {{AFL Mel}}
| 15.12 (102)
| '''{{AFL Ric}}'''
| '''29.21 (195)'''
| [[Melbourne Cricket Ground|MCG]]
| 27,217
| 24 May 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| {{AFL Fit}}
| 14.16 (100)
| '''{{AFL SM}}'''
| '''16.25 (121)'''
| [[Junction Oval]]
| 14,665
| 24 May 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Col}}'''
| '''18.28 (136)'''
| {{AFL Gee}}
| 15.15 (105)
| [[Victoria Park, Melbourne|Victoria Park]]
| 30,157
| 24 May 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL StK}}'''
| '''19.15 (129)'''
| {{AFL Foo}}
| 15.13 (103)
| [[Moorabbin Oval]]
| 15,207
| 24 May 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Nor}}'''
| '''14.9 (93)'''
| {{AFL Haw}}
| 13.10 (88)
| [[VFL Park]]
| 34,384
| 24 May 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Car}}'''
| '''20.11 (131)'''
| {{AFL Ess}}
| 13.16 (94)
| [[Sydney Cricket Ground|SCG]]
| 24,545
| 25 May 1980
{{end box}}


===Round 10===
A similar thing was done on the page for [[Gyancain Norbu]], by the same editor (70.102.63.186) on the following day (18:04, 28 March 2008). The second sentence starts out being about Gyancain Norbu and his parents, then goes on to be about Gedhun Choekyi Nyima, and finishes with "placing the young boy into secret custody outside of Tibet." The phrase "secret custody" could be considered fairly neutral, consistent with both (1) "prisoner" and (2) "... normal life ... undisclosed to protect ...". However, the link from "secret custody" points to "forced disappearance" ("... corpse hidden"). Here again, we have a link that, from a neutral point of view, doesn't fit the text it's attached to. Again, I'm not saying there were bad intentions on the part of the editors, but the effect is that the link appears to indicate a strong bias. If there is going to be a link to "forced disappearance", then the article itself should say something about "forced disappearance", and the link should be attached to (nearly) those exact words. For example, "John Q. Smith wrote in such-and-such book (reference) about what he called the [[forced disappearance]] of Gedhun Choekyi Nyima." That much detail about Gedhun Choekyi Nyima, however, might be more at home on the page for Gedhun Choekyi Nyima rather than on the page for Gyancain Norbu.
{{start box}}
|- bgcolor="#CCCCFF"
| '''Home team'''
| '''Home team score'''
| '''Away team'''
| '''Away team score'''
| '''Venue'''
| '''Crowd'''
| '''Date'''
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Ess}}'''
| '''17.18 (120)'''
| {{AFL Mel}}
| 11.10 (76)
| [[Windy Hill, Essendon|Windy Hill]]
| 16,504
| 31 May 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Ric}}'''
| '''15.15 (105)'''
| {{AFL Nor}}
| 13.20 (98)
| [[Melbourne Cricket Ground|MCG]]
| 61,769
| 31 May 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL SM}}'''
| '''28.15 (183)'''
| {{AFL Haw}}
| 14.15 (99)
| [[Lake Oval]]
| 17,420
| 31 May 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Gee}}'''
| '''18.15 (123)'''
| {{AFL Fit}}
| 17.6 (108)
| [[Kardinia Park (Stadium)]]
| 19,581
| 31 May 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| {{AFL Foo}}
| 18.11 (119)
| '''{{AFL Col}}'''
| '''24.17 (161)'''
| [[Western Oval]]
| 21,482
| 31 May 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Car}}'''
| '''14.20 (104)'''
| {{AFL StK}}
| 9.8 (62)
| [[VFL Park]]
| 37,594
| 31 May 1980
{{end box}}


===Round 11===
Comments? [[User:Mesopelagicity|Mesopelagicity]] ([[User talk:Mesopelagicity|talk]]) 20:50, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
{{start box}}
|- bgcolor="#CCCCFF"
| '''Home team'''
| '''Home team score'''
| '''Away team'''
| '''Away team score'''
| '''Venue'''
| '''Crowd'''
| '''Date'''
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| {{AFL Foo}}
| 15.13 (103)
| '''{{AFL Gee}}'''
| '''22.12 (144)'''
| [[Western Oval]]
| 15,519
| 7 June 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Col}}'''
| '''19.15 (129)'''
| {{AFL Mel}}
| 18.11 (119)
| [[Victoria Park, Melbourne|Victoria Park]]
| 23,040
| 7 June 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| {{AFL StK}}
| 12.8 (80)
| '''{{AFL Nor}}'''
| '''25.13 (163)'''
| [[Moorabbin Oval]]
| 16,506
| 7 June 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| {{AFL Haw}}
| 9.17 (71)
| '''{{AFL Ess}}'''
| '''13.11 (89)'''
| [[Princes Park Football Ground|Princes Park]]
| 21,223
| 7 June 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| {{AFL Fit}}
| 19.12 (126)
| '''{{AFL Car}}'''
| '''22.24 (156)'''
| [[Junction Oval]]
| 15,286
| 7 June 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Ric}}'''
| '''18.13 (121)'''
| {{AFL SM}}
| 10.8 (68)
| [[VFL Park]]
| 50,017
| 7 June 1980
{{end box}}


===Round 12===
:while I don't support lies or implied mistruth in any way, I would ask that anyone who can support the claim that he is "living somewhere outside Tibet" to provide a reference or a link to support this. As he can be classified as an enemy of the CPC, and we have much historical evidence to support what the CPC does with people who represent a dissenting opinion to the government party line. I would ask you honestly, Do you really believe he is living life safely and happily in china, even though no evidence has been provided to support this? Or is there more anecdotal, circumstantial, and other evidence pointing to his "forced disappearance"? Now if you read the article "forced disappearance", it states that the "disappearer" party typically has deniability, and doesn't ever state the fate of the disappeared person, simply that they are living safely and comfortably and for whatever reason they refuse to show themselves. How is this statement different from what china has stated about the 11th Panchen Lama? How is this a different situation, simply because no body has been unearthed? That's what a forced disappearance is all about. All the evidence considered, that the CPC is known for "disappearing" its opponents, that this person could be classified as an opponent, and that the CPC claims, with no backing evidence, that he has been moved and is in a secret location for his own protection. Any reasoning mind would put these things together properly, and understand that calling it a "forced disappearance" isn't a POV edit- it's a reality supported by reams of evidence.[[User:Dragonnas|Dragonnas]] ([[User talk:Dragonnas|talk]]) 17:40, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
{{start box}}
|- bgcolor="#CCCCFF"
| '''Home team'''
| '''Home team score'''
| '''Away team'''
| '''Away team score'''
| '''Venue'''
| '''Crowd'''
| '''Date'''
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Mel}}'''
| '''19.20 (134)'''
| {{AFL StK}}
| 14.8 (92)
| [[Melbourne Cricket Ground|MCG]]
| 26,324
| 14 June 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| {{AFL Fit}}
| 18.15 (123)
| '''{{AFL Foo}}'''
| '''25.17 (167)'''
| [[Junction Oval]]
| 10,681
| 14 June 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Nor}}'''
| '''15.11 (101)'''
| {{AFL Ess}}
| 10.12 (72)
| [[Arden Street Oval]]
| 28,068
| 14 June 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Car}}'''
| '''13.12 (90)'''
| {{AFL Col}}
| 11.19 (85)
| [[Princes Park Football Ground|Princes Park]]
| 43,599
| 15 June 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Ric}}'''
| '''16.12 (108)'''
| {{AFL Haw}}
| 11.22 (88)
| [[Melbourne Cricket Ground|MCG]]
| 57,572
| 16 June 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Gee}}'''
| '''21.21 (147)'''
| {{AFL SM}}
| 12.12 (84)
| [[Sydney Cricket Ground|SCG]]
| 13,209
| 16 June 1980
{{end box}}


===Round 13===
:: Neither of the two articles ([[Gedhun Choekyi Nyima]] and [[Gyancain Norbu]]) actually uses the term "forced disappearance". Formerly, the sentence about "normal life" was linked to "forced disappearance" in a way that was blatantly biased and inconsiderate to the reader. That has been improved at least to some extent: now the link (in the [[Gedhun Choekyi Nyima]] article) is from "otherwise disposed of" to "forced disappearance". The link in the [[Gyancain Norbu]] article is from "secret custody" to "forced disappearance". Still, if there is going to be a link to "forced disappearance", ideally the words "forced disapparance" should actually occur in the article and the link should be attached to those words. This is a matter of responsible NPOV and has nothing to do with what you or I might personally happen to believe about the current condition of Gedhun Choekyi Nyima. Since you seem to be asking what I believe, though, here it is: I believe that he could be dead, or in prison, or happily living a normal life (possibly without even knowing anyone thinks he's a reincarnated Lama). I have no basis for believing one of these possibilities to be more likely than another. Almost any political organization in the world includes some good people and some bad people. I know that CPC members aren't all evil and that not everyone who expresses dissent in China gets killed or imprisoned. I also know that the USA still tortures and disappears people in spite of the sincere commitment of many of its leaders to freedom and justice. This is not a black-and-white world we live in. The people who scare me the most are the ones who seem to have no doubts. They know who's a god and who's a demon. They know who should go to heaven and who should go somewhere else. [[User:Mesopelagicity|Mesopelagicity]] ([[User talk:Mesopelagicity|talk]]) 02:04, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
{{start box}}
|- bgcolor="#CCCCFF"
| '''Home team'''
| '''Home team score'''
| '''Away team'''
| '''Away team score'''
| '''Venue'''
| '''Crowd'''
| '''Date'''
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Haw}}'''
| '''21.17 (143)'''
| {{AFL StK}}
| 16.13 (109)
| [[Princes Park Football Ground|Princes Park]]
| 11,686
| 21 June 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Foo}}'''
| '''15.14 (104)'''
| {{AFL SM}}
| 12.15 (87)
| [[Western Oval]]
| 15,837
| 21 June 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| {{AFL Ess}}
| 15.17 (107)
| '''{{AFL Ric}}'''
| '''16.21 (117)'''
| [[Windy Hill, Essendon|Windy Hill]]
| 24,045
| 21 June 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Mel}}'''
| '''18.21 (129)'''
| {{AFL Fit}}
| 18.9 (117)
| [[Melbourne Cricket Ground|MCG]]
| 15,075
| 21 June 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Gee}}'''
| '''12.11 (83)'''
| {{AFL Car}}
| 12.6 (78)
| [[Kardinia Park (Stadium)]]
| 26,526
| 21 June 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Col}}'''
| '''20.19 (139)'''
| {{AFL Nor}}
| 13.15 (93)
| [[VFL Park]]
| 54,675
| 21 June 1980
{{end box}}


===Round 14===
== Third paragraph ==
{{start box}}
|- bgcolor="#CCCCFF"
| '''Home team'''
| '''Home team score'''
| '''Away team'''
| '''Away team score'''
| '''Venue'''
| '''Crowd'''
| '''Date'''
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Gee}}'''
| '''13.6 (84)'''
| {{AFL Nor}}
| 4.3 (27)
| [[Kardinia Park (Stadium)]]
| 21,555
| 28 June 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Foo}}'''
| '''10.13 (73)'''
| {{AFL Mel}}
| 6.7 (43)
| [[Western Oval]]
| 11,785
| 28 June 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Haw}}'''
| '''21.17 (143)'''
| {{AFL Fit}}
| 8.7 (55)
| [[Princes Park Football Ground|Princes Park]]
| 8,209
| 28 June 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Ric}}'''
| '''9.19 (73)'''
| {{AFL Col}}
| 7.22 (64)
| [[Melbourne Cricket Ground|MCG]]
| 64,054
| 28 June 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| {{AFL SM}}
| 5.9 (39)
| '''{{AFL Car}}'''
| '''10.18 (78)'''
| [[Lake Oval]]
| 12,362
| 28 June 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL StK}}'''
| '''7.11 (53)'''
| {{AFL Ess}}
| 6.12 (48)
| [[VFL Park]]
| 20,485
| 28 June 1980
{{end box}}


===Round 15===
The third paragraph in the intro is problematic, and the fact that dueling users have made it a point-counterpoint does not help matters.
{{start box}}
|- bgcolor="#CCCCFF"
| '''Home team'''
| '''Home team score'''
| '''Away team'''
| '''Away team score'''
| '''Venue'''
| '''Crowd'''
| '''Date'''
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| {{AFL StK}}
| 5.6 (36)
| '''{{AFL SM}}'''
| '''6.14 (50)'''
| [[Moorabbin Oval]]
| 16,840
| 12 July 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Fit}}'''
| '''15.19 (109)'''
| {{AFL Ric}}
| 12.16 (88)
| [[Junction Oval]]
| 11,362
| 12 July 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Col}}'''
| '''11.22 (88)'''
| {{AFL Ess}}
| 13.6 (84)
| [[Victoria Park, Melbourne|Victoria Park]]
| 30,659
| 12 July 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Nor}}'''
| '''15.19 (109)'''
| {{AFL Foo}}
| 7.8 (50)
| [[Arden Street Oval]]
| 15,277
| 12 July 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| {{AFL Mel}}
| 15.13 (103)
| '''{{AFL Car}}'''
| '''18.24 (132)'''
| [[Melbourne Cricket Ground|MCG]]
| 26,216
| 12 July 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Gee}}'''
| '''17.15 (117)'''
| {{AFL Haw}}
| 4.13 (37)
| [[VFL Park]]
| 34,204
| 12 July 1980
{{end box}}


===Round 16===
"Given that the recognition of Panchen Lamas has always been a matter involving the Dalai Lama, the involvement of China in this affair is seen by some as a political ploy to try and gain control over the recognition of the next Dalai Lama (see below), and to strengthen their hold over the future of Tibet and its governance. China's involvement, however, does not break with tradition in that the recognition of the Dalai Lama himself traditionally rested in the hands of the Chinese emperor."
{{start box}}
|- bgcolor="#CCCCFF"
| '''Home team'''
| '''Home team score'''
| '''Away team'''
| '''Away team score'''
| '''Venue'''
| '''Crowd'''
| '''Date'''
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| {{AFL Ess}}
| 20.9 (129)
| '''{{AFL SM}}'''
| '''19.19 (133)'''
| [[Windy Hill, Essendon|Windy Hill]]
| 17,471
| 19 July 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Col}}'''
| '''22.17 (149)'''
| {{AFL Haw}}
| 19.8 (122)
| [[Victoria Park, Melbourne|Victoria Park]]
| 25,090
| 19 July 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Car}}'''
| '''24.16 (160)'''
| {{AFL Foo}}
| 15.13 (103)
| [[Princes Park Football Ground|Princes Park]]
| 18,792
| 19 July 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| {{AFL Mel}}
| 15.15 (105)
| '''{{AFL Gee}}'''
| '''17.12 (114)'''
| [[Melbourne Cricket Ground|MCG]]
| 23,327
| 19 July 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Nor}}'''
| '''17.13 (115)'''
| {{AFL Fit}}
| 13.8 (86)
| [[VFL Park]]
| 16,002
| 19 July 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Ric}}'''
| '''34.18 (222)'''
| {{AFL StK}}
| 11.4 (70)
| [[Sydney Cricket Ground|SCG]]
| 14,077
| 20 July 1980
{{end box}}


===Round 17===
These politically-correct assertions are useless without reference to some kind of actual research on how things actually happened. What's more, I'd be very surprised if actual research failed to show that in fact ''a variety of situations'' have prevailed at different times. Pat, simplistic answers are for politicians. There is a third actor here which is not sufficiently mentioned, and that is the Panchen Lama's personally entourage or ''labrang''. As far as I know, except in very unusual situations, the labrang will always take the lead in locating a new tülku (in the Dalai Lama's case, his labrang was basically synonymous with the Tibetan government). There can be input from outside parties (just as the 9th Panchen Lama was consulted by the government when they were finding the 14th Dalai Lama) and someone else might be called on to ratify the decision, but the footwork is done by the labrang. I'm sure that the Dalai Lama (or, rather, his administration) tended to insist on its right to ''approve'' the selection of a new Gelug tülku, but it's unclear to what extent this was a secular function that went along with the Dalai Lama's role as a secular ruler. By the same token, the Qing emperor, as a secular ruler, would also approve the recognition of major tülkus, even though the emperor was at an additional remove from the action. And then we have unusual situations like the recognition of the 10th Panchen Lama (the first born after the fall of the Qing) who was chosen by his labrang and backed by the Chinese (first the KMT and then the Communists) while being bitterly opposed by Lhasa&mdash;he was only recognised by the Dalai Lama as a concession to the Chinese.
{{start box}}
|- bgcolor="#CCCCFF"
| '''Home team'''
| '''Home team score'''
| '''Away team'''
| '''Away team score'''
| '''Venue'''
| '''Crowd'''
| '''Date'''
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Foo}}'''
| '''25.10 (160)'''
| {{AFL Haw}}
| 15.17 (107)
| [[Western Oval]]
| 12,362
| 26 July 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Ess}}'''
| '''18.14 (122)'''
| {{AFL Fit}}
| 17.14 (116)
| [[Windy Hill, Essendon|Windy Hill]]
| 14,372
| 26 July 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| {{AFL Car}}
| 14.17 (101)
| '''{{AFL Nor}}'''
| '''20.13 (133)'''
| [[Princes Park Football Ground|Princes Park]]
| 26,347
| 26 July 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL SM}}'''
| '''17.22 (124)'''
| {{AFL Mel}}
| 13.12 (90)
| [[Lake Oval]]
| 11,643
| 26 July 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| {{AFL Ric}}
| 13.15 (93)
| '''{{AFL Gee}}'''
| '''16.14 (110)'''
| [[Melbourne Cricket Ground|MCG]]
| 70,068
| 26 July 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Col}}'''
| '''32.19 (211)'''
| {{AFL StK}}
| 16.11 (107)
| [[VFL Park]]
| 33,933
| 26 July 1980
{{end box}}


===Round 18===
On the other hand, the Panchen Lama clearly has a particular tie to the Dalai Lama due to the fact that the 5th Dalai Lama was the one who granted the title of Panchen and did much to promote that lineage. Whether that fact is still relevant 350 years later when it comes to the selection process is not a question with an obvious answer.&mdash;[[User:Nat Krause|Nat Krause]]<sup>([[User talk:Nat Krause|Talk!]]·[[Special:Contributions/Nat Krause|What have I done?]])</sup> 19:50, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
{{start box}}
|- bgcolor="#CCCCFF"
| '''Home team'''
| '''Home team score'''
| '''Away team'''
| '''Away team score'''
| '''Venue'''
| '''Crowd'''
| '''Date'''
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Fit}}'''
| '''15.14 (104)'''
| {{AFL StK}}
| 12.8 (80)
| [[Junction Oval]]
| 6,836
| 2 August 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Col}}'''
| '''11.24 (90)'''
| {{AFL SM}}
| 8.9 (57)
| [[Victoria Park, Melbourne|Victoria Park]]
| 24,739
| 2 August 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Nor}}'''
| '''12.15 (87)'''
| {{AFL Mel}}
| 7.15 (57)
| [[Arden Street Oval]]
| 7,544
| 2 August 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Gee}}'''
| '''15.14 (104)'''
| {{AFL Ess}}
| 13.12 (90)
| [[Kardinia Park (Stadium)]]
| 24,738
| 2 August 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| {{AFL Haw}}
| 9.15 (69)
| '''{{AFL Car}}'''
| '''16.17 (113)'''
| [[Princes Park Football Ground|Princes Park]]
| 15,046
| 2 August 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Ric}}'''
| '''23.18 (156)'''
| {{AFL Foo}}
| 6.5 (41)
| [[VFL Park]]
| 18,282
| 2 August 1980
{{end box}}


===Round 19===
: Added fact tag on ''"China's involvement, however, does not break with tradition in that the recognition of the Dalai Lama himself traditionally rested in the hands of the Chinese emperor."'', though I think it should probably just be removed. As far as I'm aware this is traditionally done using divination by elders within the Dalai Lama monastery...not by the Chinese emperor. (After using omens to find the new reincarnation the elders will verify the identification, using tests to see if the child can recognize material belongings from previous Dalai Lama etc.) [[User:Tomtefarbror|Tomtefarbror]] ([[User talk:Tomtefarbror|talk]]) 01:29, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
{{start box}}
|- bgcolor="#CCCCFF"
| '''Home team'''
| '''Home team score'''
| '''Away team'''
| '''Away team score'''
| '''Venue'''
| '''Crowd'''
| '''Date'''
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Ess}}'''
| '''18.8 (116)'''
| {{AFL Foo}}
| 11.8 (74)
| [[Windy Hill, Essendon|Windy Hill]]
| 16,952
| 9 August 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Car}}'''
| '''12.19 (91)'''
| {{AFL Ric}}
| 10.10 (70)
| [[Princes Park Football Ground|Princes Park]]
| 30,051
| 9 August 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL SM}}'''
| '''12.13 (85)'''
| {{AFL Nor}}
| 11.7 (73)
| [[Lake Oval]]
| 13,681
| 9 August 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| {{AFL Mel}}
| 9.10 (64)
| '''{{AFL Haw}}'''
| '''19.27 (141)'''
| [[Melbourne Cricket Ground|MCG]]
| 15,447
| 9 August 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL StK}}'''
| '''13.10 (88)'''
| {{AFL Gee}}
| 11.17 (83)
| [[Moorabbin Oval]]
| 13,236
| 9 August 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Col}}'''
| '''19.10 (124)'''
| {{AFL Fit}}
| 16.19 (115)
| [[VFL Park]]
| 31,013
| 9 August 1980
{{end box}}


===Round 20===
::I think the editor who wrote that means "recognise" in a different sense than you do. Merriam-Webster defines that word as "to admit as being of a particular status" as well as "to perceive to be something or someone previously known". So, it is certainly the search party, an arm of the Tibetan government, which is perceives the new Dalai Lama as someone previously known. But others, including the Qing emperor, would admit the new Dalai Lama as being of a particular status.&mdash;[[User:Nat Krause|Nat Krause]]<sup>([[User talk:Nat Krause|Talk!]]·[[Special:Contributions/Nat Krause|What have I done?]])</sup> 02:54, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
{{start box}}
|- bgcolor="#CCCCFF"
| '''Home team'''
| '''Home team score'''
| '''Away team'''
| '''Away team score'''
| '''Venue'''
| '''Crowd'''
| '''Date'''
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Foo}}'''
| '''16.22 (118)'''
| {{AFL StK}}
| 11.7 (73)
| [[Western Oval]]
| 13,966
| 16 August 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Car}}'''
| '''25.14 (164)'''
| {{AFL Ess}}
| 16.7 (103)
| [[Princes Park Football Ground|Princes Park]]
| 27,955
| 16 August 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Ric}}'''
| '''26.18 (174)'''
| {{AFL Mel}}
| 16.13 (109)
| [[Melbourne Cricket Ground|MCG]]
| 19,048
| 16 August 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL SM}}'''
| '''20.14 (134)'''
| {{AFL Fit}}
| 17.15 (117)
| [[Lake Oval]]
| 12,015
| 16 August 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Gee}}'''
| '''14.15 (99)'''
| {{AFL Col}}
| 12.9 (81)
| [[Kardinia Park (Stadium)]]
| 42,198
| 16 August 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Nor}}'''
| '''20.15 (135)'''
| {{AFL Haw}}
| 11.13 (79)
| [[VFL Park]]
| 21,739
| 16 August 1980
{{end box}}


===Round 21===
:::As far as I know, that's pretty much how it worked. It was kinda like how the [[President of the United States]] can appoint [[Supreme Court of the United States|Supreme Court]] justices, but they have to be approved by the [[United States Senate]]. Except in this case, the Chinese emperor didn't choose the Dalai Lama, the most important Tibetan lamas would choose a suitable candidate through divination and all that jazz, who was then approved by the Chinese emperor. The problem here is probably just word choice. --[[User:Patar knight|Patar knight]] - <sup>[[User talk:Patar knight|chat]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contributions/Patar knight|contributions]]</sub> 21:24, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
{{start box}}
|- bgcolor="#CCCCFF"
| '''Home team'''
| '''Home team score'''
| '''Away team'''
| '''Away team score'''
| '''Venue'''
| '''Crowd'''
| '''Date'''
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| {{AFL Nor}}
| 14.14 (98)
| '''{{AFL Ric}}'''
| '''15.19 (109)'''
| [[Arden Street Oval]]
| 23,682
| 23 August 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| {{AFL Fit}}
| 16.21 (117)
| '''{{AFL Gee}}'''
| '''20.12 (132)'''
| [[Junction Oval]]
| 12,004
| 23 August 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Col}}'''
| '''19.16 (130)'''
| {{AFL Foo}}
| 13.14 (92)
| [[Victoria Park, Melbourne|Victoria Park]]
| 23,472
| 23 August 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| {{AFL Mel}}
| 14.17 (101)
| '''{{AFL Ess}}'''
| '''18.14 (122)'''
| [[Melbourne Cricket Ground|MCG]]
| 23,530
| 23 August 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| {{AFL StK}}
| 13.9 (87)
| '''{{AFL Car}}'''
| '''20.16 (136)'''
| [[Moorabbin Oval]]
| 21,258
| 23 August 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Haw}}'''
| '''16.17 (113)'''
| {{AFL SM}}
| 12.11 (83)
| [[VFL Park]]
| 19,882
| 23 August 1980
{{end box}}


== POV again ==
===Round 22===
{{start box}}
Linking the word "disappearance" to the article for "forced disappearance" is not acceptable. If there is going to be a link to "forced disappearance", then the article itself needs to say "forced disappearance". I made this change and it was immediately reverted. Therefore I am adding a POV tag. [[User:Mesopelagicity|Mesopelagicity]] ([[User talk:Mesopelagicity|talk]]) 01:59, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
|- bgcolor="#CCCCFF"
| '''Home team'''
| '''Home team score'''
| '''Away team'''
| '''Away team score'''
| '''Venue'''
| '''Crowd'''
| '''Date'''
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Nor}}'''
| '''11.17 (83)'''
| '''{{AFL StK}}'''
| '''12.11 (83)'''
| [[Arden Street Oval]]
| 10,302
| 30 August 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Ess}}'''
| '''15.12 (102)'''
| {{AFL Haw}}
| 8.14 (62)
| [[Windy Hill, Essendon|Windy Hill]]
| 17,772
| 30 August 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Car}}'''
| '''21.20 (146)'''
| {{AFL Fit}}
| 20.22 (142)
| [[Princes Park Football Ground|Princes Park]]
| 22,495
| 30 August 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL SM}}'''
| '''16.11 (107)'''
| {{AFL Ric}}
| 7.11 (53)
| [[Lake Oval]]
| 21,964
| 30 August 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| {{AFL Mel}}
| 9.12 (66)
| '''{{AFL Col}}'''
| '''19.10 (124)'''
| [[Melbourne Cricket Ground|MCG]]
| 52,791
| 30 August 1980
|- bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
| '''{{AFL Gee}}'''
| '''12.18 (90)'''
| {{AFL Foo}}
| 5.10 (40)
| [[VFL Park]]
| 21,186
| 30 August 1980
{{end box}}


==Grand Final==
:I have removed the link per [[WP:EGG]]. It does seem to be a case of [[Google bomb|Googlewashing]]. __[[User:Meco|meco]] ([[User talk:Meco|talk]]) 09:56, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
{{Main|1980 VFL Grand Final}}
[[Richmond Football Club|Richmond]] defeated [[Collingwood Football Club|Collingwood]] 23.21 (159) to 9.24 (78), in front of a crowd of 113,461 people. (For an explanation of scoring see [[Australian rules football]]).


== NPOV, Redux ==
==Ladder==
{| class="wikitable"
|
!Team
!Won
!Lost
!Draw
!For
!Against
!%
!Points
|-
!1
|[[Geelong Football Club|Geelong]]
|align=center|17
|align=center|5
|align=center|0
|align=center|2362
|align=center|1888
|align=center|125.1
|align=center|68
|-
!2
|[[Carlton Football Club|Carlton]]
|align=center|17
|align=center|5
|align=center|0
|align=center|2576
|align=center|2128
|align=center|121.0
|align=center|68
|-
!3
|[[Richmond Football Club|Richmond]]
|align=center|16
|align=center|5
|align=center|1
|align=center|2754
|align=center|1990
|align=center|134.4
|align=center|66
|-
!4
|[[North Melbourne Football Club|North Melbourne]]
|align=center|14
|align=center|7
|align=center|1
|align=center|2345
|align=center|1894
|align=center|123.8
|align=center|58
|-
!5
|[[Collingwood Football Club|Collingwood]]
|align=center|14
|align=center|7
|align=center|1
|align=center|2491
|align=center|2178
|align=center|114.4
|align=center|58
|-
|colspan=9 height=4px|
|-
!6
|[[Sydney Swans|South Melbourne]]
|align=center|13
|align=center|9
|align=center|0
|align=center|2211
|align=center|2174
|align=center|101.7
|align=center|52
|-
!7
|[[Essendon Football Club|Essendon]]
|align=center|10
|align=center|12
|align=center|0
|align=center|2268
|align=center|2151
|align=center|105.4
|align=center|40
|-
!8
|[[Hawthorn Football Club|Hawthorn]]
|align=center|10
|align=center|12
|align=center|0
|align=center|2249
|align=center|2381
|align=center|94.4
|align=center|40
|-
!9
|[[Melbourne Football Club|Melbourne]]
|align=center|5
|align=center|17
|align=center|0
|align=center|2140
|align=center|2709
|align=center|79.0
|align=center|20
|-
!10
|[[Western Bulldogs|Footscray]]
|align=center|5
|align=center|17
|align=center|0
|align=center|2056
|align=center|2737
|align=center|75.1
|align=center|20
|-
!11
|[[St Kilda Football Club|St Kilda]]
|align=center|4
|align=center|16
|align=center|2
|align=center|1872
|align=center|2704
|align=center|69.2
|align=center|20
|-
!12
|[[Fitzroy Football Club|Fitzroy]]
|align=center|4
|align=center|17
|align=center|1
|align=center|2398
|align=center|2788
|align=center|86.0
|align=center|18
|-
|}


==Notes==
I've removed the NPOV tag from the article since there is no ongoing discussion, and, presumably then, no conflict. If editors have objections to the neutrality of this article, please revert my change and list your grievances here. --[[User:Gimme danger|Gimme danger]] ([[User talk:Gimme danger|talk]]) 15:29, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
* The leading goalkicker was [[Michael Roach (footballer)|Michael Roach]] of [[Richmond Football Club|Richmond]] with 112 goals
* The [[Brownlow Medal]] was won by Footscray's [[Kelvin Templeton]]
* The [[Richmond Football Club]] set a record that will never be beaten: the club's three full-forwards each kicked more than 100 goals in the 1980 season.
** The full-forward of its Senior team, [[Michael Roach (footballer)|Michael Roach]], kicked 112 goals.
** The full-forward of its Reserve team, [[Mark "Jacko" Jackson|Mark Jackson]], kicked 131 goals (a record for the Reserve competition).
** The full-forward of its Under-19 team, Peter Lane, kicked 116 goals.


==See also==
== Do Buddhist preserve the body to enthrine...???? ==
* [[Early VFL Final systems]]
* [[McIntyre_System#Page-McIntyre_system|Page-McIntyre "Final Four" system]]
* [[McIntyre_System#McIntyre_final_five_system| McIntyre "Final Five" system]]


==References==
From my memory, in no where have the buddhist scriptures or documents instructed the buddha's disciples to preserve their body for entrine after their death.
* Stephen Rogers and Ashley Brown (1998). ''Every Game Ever Played''. 6th ed. Victoria: Penguin Books.


{{VFL/AFL_seasons}}
http://www.tibettravel.org/tibettravel/Html/2006328151855-1.html


[[Category:Australian Football League seasons|1980]]
Therefore, by doing so it is the fause action against buddhist will and I'm sure it is also against Panchen Lama's own wishes.
[[Category:1980 in Australia|VFL]]
[[Category:1980 in sports|VFL]]

Revision as of 02:13, 11 October 2008

Template:Infobox VFL Premiership Season Results and statistics for the Victorian Football League season of 1980.

Night Series

North Melbourne defeated Collingwood 8.9 (57) to 7.12 (54)

Premiership season

Round 1

Home team Home team score Away team Away team score Venue Crowd Date
Hawthorn 15.16 (106) Richmond 16.15 (111) Princes Park 21,028 29 March 1980
Geelong 12.13 (85) South Melbourne 13.10 (88) Kardinia Park (Stadium) 22,685 29 March 1980
Essendon 12.15 (87) North Melbourne 15.10 (100) Windy Hill 28,811 29 March 1980
Footscray 17.11 (113) Fitzroy 18.17 (125) Western Oval 20,060 29 March 1980
Collingwood 13.16 (94) Carlton 19.18 (132) Victoria Park 29,587 29 March 1980
Melbourne 18.14 (122) St Kilda 14.16 (100) VFL Park 31,859 29 March 1980

Round 2

Home team Home team score Away team Away team score Venue Crowd Date
Richmond 17.15 (117) Essendon 17.22 (124) MCG 51,548 5 April 1980
North Melbourne 7.14 (56) Collingwood 7.19 (61) Arden Street Oval 24,363 5 April 1980
Melbourne 22.8 (140) Fitzroy 17.14 (116) VFL Park 28,802 5 April 1980
Carlton 14.25 (109) Geelong 15.14 (104) Princes Park 32,614 7 April 1980
St Kilda 11.17 (83) Hawthorn 15.26 (116) Moorabbin Oval 22,265 7 April 1980
South Melbourne 14.17 (101) Footscray 10.13 (73) Lake Oval 19,191 7 April 1980

Round 3

Home team Home team score Away team Away team score Venue Crowd Date
Richmond 18.20 (128) St Kilda 19.14 (128) MCG 37,076 12 April 1980
Geelong 17.17 (119) Melbourne 14.9 (93) Kardinia Park (Stadium) 21,504 12 April 1980
Fitzroy 14.18 (102) North Melbourne 21.22 (148) Junction Oval 14,548 12 April 1980
Hawthorn 19.16 (130) Collingwood 16.23 (119) Princes Park 27,034 12 April 1980
Footscray 14.10 (94) Carlton 17.17 (119) Western Oval 21,434 12 April 1980
Essendon 24.12 (156) South Melbourne 14.17 (101) VFL Park 33,909 12 April 1980

Round 4

Home team Home team score Away team Away team score Venue Crowd Date
Collingwood 8.9 (57) Richmond 16.13 (109) Victoria Park 29,888 19 April 1980
Carlton 22.18 (150) South Melbourne 13.15 (93) Princes Park 20,794 19 April 1980
North Melbourne 10.9 (69) Geelong 16.10 (106) Arden Street Oval 15,437 19 April 1980
Melbourne 18.21 (129) Footscray 18.12 (120) MCG 20,905 19 April 1980
St Kilda 11.17 (83) Essendon 12.8 (80) Moorabbin Oval 30,947 19 April 1980
Hawthorn 11.19 (85) Fitzroy 12.10 (82) VFL Park 26,104 19 April 1980

Round 5

Home team Home team score Away team Away team score Venue Crowd Date
Geelong 14.10 (94) Hawthorn 13.11 (89) Kardinia Park (Stadium) 34,256 25 April 1980
Richmond 29.25 (199) Fitzroy 11.15 (81) MCG 44,401 25 April 1980
Carlton 14.19 (103) Melbourne 9.20 (74) VFL Park 60,784 25 April 1980
South Melbourne 17.20 (122) St Kilda 7.15 (57) Lake Oval 23,003 26 April 1980
Essendon 9.15 (69) Collingwood 10.13 (73) Windy Hill 32,140 26 April 1980
North Melbourne 26.21 (177) Footscray 8.7 (55) SCG 13,476 27 April 1980

Round 6

Home team Home team score Away team Away team score Venue Crowd Date
Melbourne 15.14 (104) South Melbourne 19.16 (130) MCG 22,487 3 May 1980
Collingwood 26.12 (168) St Kilda 16.12 (108) Victoria Park 29,094 3 May 1980
Hawthorn 19.16 (130) Footscray 18.5 (113) Princes Park 11,958 3 May 1980
Fitzroy 16.12 (108) Essendon 15.23 (113) Junction Oval 17,562 3 May 1980
North Melbourne 18.11 (119) Carlton 12.15 (87) Arden Street Oval 24,644 3 May 1980
Richmond 12.16 (88) Geelong 10.17 (77) VFL Park 47,265 3 May 1980

Round 7

Home team Home team score Away team Away team score Venue Crowd Date
Footscray 10.10 (70) Richmond 27.18 (180) Western Oval 16,471 10 May 1980
Essendon 13.15 (93) Geelong 16.11 (107) Windy Hill 23,993 10 May 1980
Carlton 14.27 (111) Hawthorn 16.17 (113) Princes Park 26,414 10 May 1980
St Kilda 12.20 (92) Fitzroy 18.23 (131) Moorabbin Oval 17,557 10 May 1980
South Melbourne 17.13 (115) Collingwood 13.12 (90) Lake Oval 22,375 10 May 1980
North Melbourne 24.15 (159) Melbourne 10.12 (72) VFL Park 18,939 10 May 1980

Round 8

Home team Home team score Away team Away team score Venue Crowd Date
North Melbourne 15.19 (109) South Melbourne 16.10 (106) Arden Street Oval 17,190 17 May 1980
Hawthorn 17.16 (118) Melbourne 15.18 (108) Princes Park 10,504 17 May 1980
Geelong 20.15 (135) St Kilda 10.12 (72) Kardinia Park (Stadium) 22,449 17 May 1980
Fitzroy 17.16 (118) Collingwood 17.16 (118) Junction Oval 20,596 17 May 1980
Richmond 19.24 (138) Carlton 12.13 (85) MCG 85,659 17 May 1980
Essendon 22.16 (148) Footscray 10.11 (71) VFL Park 21,851 17 May 1980

Round 9

Home team Home team score Away team Away team score Venue Crowd Date
Melbourne 15.12 (102) Richmond 29.21 (195) MCG 27,217 24 May 1980
Fitzroy 14.16 (100) South Melbourne 16.25 (121) Junction Oval 14,665 24 May 1980
Collingwood 18.28 (136) Geelong 15.15 (105) Victoria Park 30,157 24 May 1980
St Kilda 19.15 (129) Footscray 15.13 (103) Moorabbin Oval 15,207 24 May 1980
North Melbourne 14.9 (93) Hawthorn 13.10 (88) VFL Park 34,384 24 May 1980
Carlton 20.11 (131) Essendon 13.16 (94) SCG 24,545 25 May 1980

Round 10

Home team Home team score Away team Away team score Venue Crowd Date
Essendon 17.18 (120) Melbourne 11.10 (76) Windy Hill 16,504 31 May 1980
Richmond 15.15 (105) North Melbourne 13.20 (98) MCG 61,769 31 May 1980
South Melbourne 28.15 (183) Hawthorn 14.15 (99) Lake Oval 17,420 31 May 1980
Geelong 18.15 (123) Fitzroy 17.6 (108) Kardinia Park (Stadium) 19,581 31 May 1980
Footscray 18.11 (119) Collingwood 24.17 (161) Western Oval 21,482 31 May 1980
Carlton 14.20 (104) St Kilda 9.8 (62) VFL Park 37,594 31 May 1980

Round 11

Home team Home team score Away team Away team score Venue Crowd Date
Footscray 15.13 (103) Geelong 22.12 (144) Western Oval 15,519 7 June 1980
Collingwood 19.15 (129) Melbourne 18.11 (119) Victoria Park 23,040 7 June 1980
St Kilda 12.8 (80) North Melbourne 25.13 (163) Moorabbin Oval 16,506 7 June 1980
Hawthorn 9.17 (71) Essendon 13.11 (89) Princes Park 21,223 7 June 1980
Fitzroy 19.12 (126) Carlton 22.24 (156) Junction Oval 15,286 7 June 1980
Richmond 18.13 (121) South Melbourne 10.8 (68) VFL Park 50,017 7 June 1980

Round 12

Home team Home team score Away team Away team score Venue Crowd Date
Melbourne 19.20 (134) St Kilda 14.8 (92) MCG 26,324 14 June 1980
Fitzroy 18.15 (123) Footscray 25.17 (167) Junction Oval 10,681 14 June 1980
North Melbourne 15.11 (101) Essendon 10.12 (72) Arden Street Oval 28,068 14 June 1980
Carlton 13.12 (90) Collingwood 11.19 (85) Princes Park 43,599 15 June 1980
Richmond 16.12 (108) Hawthorn 11.22 (88) MCG 57,572 16 June 1980
Geelong 21.21 (147) South Melbourne 12.12 (84) SCG 13,209 16 June 1980

Round 13

Home team Home team score Away team Away team score Venue Crowd Date
Hawthorn 21.17 (143) St Kilda 16.13 (109) Princes Park 11,686 21 June 1980
Footscray 15.14 (104) South Melbourne 12.15 (87) Western Oval 15,837 21 June 1980
Essendon 15.17 (107) Richmond 16.21 (117) Windy Hill 24,045 21 June 1980
Melbourne 18.21 (129) Fitzroy 18.9 (117) MCG 15,075 21 June 1980
Geelong 12.11 (83) Carlton 12.6 (78) Kardinia Park (Stadium) 26,526 21 June 1980
Collingwood 20.19 (139) North Melbourne 13.15 (93) VFL Park 54,675 21 June 1980

Round 14

Home team Home team score Away team Away team score Venue Crowd Date
Geelong 13.6 (84) North Melbourne 4.3 (27) Kardinia Park (Stadium) 21,555 28 June 1980
Footscray 10.13 (73) Melbourne 6.7 (43) Western Oval 11,785 28 June 1980
Hawthorn 21.17 (143) Fitzroy 8.7 (55) Princes Park 8,209 28 June 1980
Richmond 9.19 (73) Collingwood 7.22 (64) MCG 64,054 28 June 1980
South Melbourne 5.9 (39) Carlton 10.18 (78) Lake Oval 12,362 28 June 1980
St Kilda 7.11 (53) Essendon 6.12 (48) VFL Park 20,485 28 June 1980

Round 15

Home team Home team score Away team Away team score Venue Crowd Date
St Kilda 5.6 (36) South Melbourne 6.14 (50) Moorabbin Oval 16,840 12 July 1980
Fitzroy 15.19 (109) Richmond 12.16 (88) Junction Oval 11,362 12 July 1980
Collingwood 11.22 (88) Essendon 13.6 (84) Victoria Park 30,659 12 July 1980
North Melbourne 15.19 (109) Footscray 7.8 (50) Arden Street Oval 15,277 12 July 1980
Melbourne 15.13 (103) Carlton 18.24 (132) MCG 26,216 12 July 1980
Geelong 17.15 (117) Hawthorn 4.13 (37) VFL Park 34,204 12 July 1980

Round 16

Home team Home team score Away team Away team score Venue Crowd Date
Essendon 20.9 (129) South Melbourne 19.19 (133) Windy Hill 17,471 19 July 1980
Collingwood 22.17 (149) Hawthorn 19.8 (122) Victoria Park 25,090 19 July 1980
Carlton 24.16 (160) Footscray 15.13 (103) Princes Park 18,792 19 July 1980
Melbourne 15.15 (105) Geelong 17.12 (114) MCG 23,327 19 July 1980
North Melbourne 17.13 (115) Fitzroy 13.8 (86) VFL Park 16,002 19 July 1980
Richmond 34.18 (222) St Kilda 11.4 (70) SCG 14,077 20 July 1980

Round 17

Home team Home team score Away team Away team score Venue Crowd Date
Footscray 25.10 (160) Hawthorn 15.17 (107) Western Oval 12,362 26 July 1980
Essendon 18.14 (122) Fitzroy 17.14 (116) Windy Hill 14,372 26 July 1980
Carlton 14.17 (101) North Melbourne 20.13 (133) Princes Park 26,347 26 July 1980
South Melbourne 17.22 (124) Melbourne 13.12 (90) Lake Oval 11,643 26 July 1980
Richmond 13.15 (93) Geelong 16.14 (110) MCG 70,068 26 July 1980
Collingwood 32.19 (211) St Kilda 16.11 (107) VFL Park 33,933 26 July 1980

Round 18

Home team Home team score Away team Away team score Venue Crowd Date
Fitzroy 15.14 (104) St Kilda 12.8 (80) Junction Oval 6,836 2 August 1980
Collingwood 11.24 (90) South Melbourne 8.9 (57) Victoria Park 24,739 2 August 1980
North Melbourne 12.15 (87) Melbourne 7.15 (57) Arden Street Oval 7,544 2 August 1980
Geelong 15.14 (104) Essendon 13.12 (90) Kardinia Park (Stadium) 24,738 2 August 1980
Hawthorn 9.15 (69) Carlton 16.17 (113) Princes Park 15,046 2 August 1980
Richmond 23.18 (156) Footscray 6.5 (41) VFL Park 18,282 2 August 1980

Round 19

Home team Home team score Away team Away team score Venue Crowd Date
Essendon 18.8 (116) Footscray 11.8 (74) Windy Hill 16,952 9 August 1980
Carlton 12.19 (91) Richmond 10.10 (70) Princes Park 30,051 9 August 1980
South Melbourne 12.13 (85) North Melbourne 11.7 (73) Lake Oval 13,681 9 August 1980
Melbourne 9.10 (64) Hawthorn 19.27 (141) MCG 15,447 9 August 1980
St Kilda 13.10 (88) Geelong 11.17 (83) Moorabbin Oval 13,236 9 August 1980
Collingwood 19.10 (124) Fitzroy 16.19 (115) VFL Park 31,013 9 August 1980

Round 20

Home team Home team score Away team Away team score Venue Crowd Date
Footscray 16.22 (118) St Kilda 11.7 (73) Western Oval 13,966 16 August 1980
Carlton 25.14 (164) Essendon 16.7 (103) Princes Park 27,955 16 August 1980
Richmond 26.18 (174) Melbourne 16.13 (109) MCG 19,048 16 August 1980
South Melbourne 20.14 (134) Fitzroy 17.15 (117) Lake Oval 12,015 16 August 1980
Geelong 14.15 (99) Collingwood 12.9 (81) Kardinia Park (Stadium) 42,198 16 August 1980
North Melbourne 20.15 (135) Hawthorn 11.13 (79) VFL Park 21,739 16 August 1980

Round 21

Home team Home team score Away team Away team score Venue Crowd Date
North Melbourne 14.14 (98) Richmond 15.19 (109) Arden Street Oval 23,682 23 August 1980
Fitzroy 16.21 (117) Geelong 20.12 (132) Junction Oval 12,004 23 August 1980
Collingwood 19.16 (130) Footscray 13.14 (92) Victoria Park 23,472 23 August 1980
Melbourne 14.17 (101) Essendon 18.14 (122) MCG 23,530 23 August 1980
St Kilda 13.9 (87) Carlton 20.16 (136) Moorabbin Oval 21,258 23 August 1980
Hawthorn 16.17 (113) South Melbourne 12.11 (83) VFL Park 19,882 23 August 1980

Round 22

Home team Home team score Away team Away team score Venue Crowd Date
North Melbourne 11.17 (83) St Kilda 12.11 (83) Arden Street Oval 10,302 30 August 1980
Essendon 15.12 (102) Hawthorn 8.14 (62) Windy Hill 17,772 30 August 1980
Carlton 21.20 (146) Fitzroy 20.22 (142) Princes Park 22,495 30 August 1980
South Melbourne 16.11 (107) Richmond 7.11 (53) Lake Oval 21,964 30 August 1980
Melbourne 9.12 (66) Collingwood 19.10 (124) MCG 52,791 30 August 1980
Geelong 12.18 (90) Footscray 5.10 (40) VFL Park 21,186 30 August 1980

Grand Final

Main article: 1980 VFL Grand Final

Richmond defeated Collingwood 23.21 (159) to 9.24 (78), in front of a crowd of 113,461 people. (For an explanation of scoring see Australian rules football).

Ladder

Team Won Lost Draw For Against % Points
1 Geelong 17 5 0 2362 1888 125.1 68
2 Carlton 17 5 0 2576 2128 121.0 68
3 Richmond 16 5 1 2754 1990 134.4 66
4 North Melbourne 14 7 1 2345 1894 123.8 58
5 Collingwood 14 7 1 2491 2178 114.4 58
6 South Melbourne 13 9 0 2211 2174 101.7 52
7 Essendon 10 12 0 2268 2151 105.4 40
8 Hawthorn 10 12 0 2249 2381 94.4 40
9 Melbourne 5 17 0 2140 2709 79.0 20
10 Footscray 5 17 0 2056 2737 75.1 20
11 St Kilda 4 16 2 1872 2704 69.2 20
12 Fitzroy 4 17 1 2398 2788 86.0 18

Notes

  • The leading goalkicker was Michael Roach of Richmond with 112 goals
  • The Brownlow Medal was won by Footscray's Kelvin Templeton
  • The Richmond Football Club set a record that will never be beaten: the club's three full-forwards each kicked more than 100 goals in the 1980 season.
    • The full-forward of its Senior team, Michael Roach, kicked 112 goals.
    • The full-forward of its Reserve team, Mark Jackson, kicked 131 goals (a record for the Reserve competition).
    • The full-forward of its Under-19 team, Peter Lane, kicked 116 goals.

See also

References

  • Stephen Rogers and Ashley Brown (1998). Every Game Ever Played. 6th ed. Victoria: Penguin Books.
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