User talk:Centpacrr

American Hockey League

I also hope you check out our hockey project page at WP:HOCKEY. Your knowledge of the American Hockey League and other minor leagues would be a valuable asset. In particular I was hoping someone would step up and give the Hershey Bears the article they deserve akin to the Springfield Indians. ccwaters 20:38, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

AHL overtime loss

Your comments are sought at this talk page. Talk:American_Hockey_League#Overtime_Loss. Thanks! !!!! Flibirigit 18:28, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Redundant paragraphs

The following paragraps you added to the main text of the American Hockey League article are redundant with the introduction of the article.

The League offices are in Springfield, Massachusetts, to which they were moved from West Springfield in the early 1990's. The AHL's current president is David Andrews.

The AHL's annual playoff champion is awarded the Calder Cup, named for Frank Calder, the first President (1917-1943) of the National Hockey League. The defending (2006) champion Hershey Bears are now tied with the defunct original Cleveland Barons (1937-1973) for most career Calder Cup titles with nine.

These sections are better suited in the introduction. Flibirigit 19:48, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

Redundant paragraphs placed there in error. Centpacrr 21:05, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

Colorado Avalanche & Diacritics

Hello Centpacrr, tried to reason with anon-user 86.198.206.162 about consensus to keep diacritics off NHL team pages. My efforts were in vain. I believe anon-user is more misinformed then a vandaliser, just not sure how how to convince him/her. GoodDay 00:42, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

License tagging for Image:Donner Pass Track 1 Grade.jpg

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License information added. Centpacrr 21:55, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Comprising vs Comprised of

Regarding your edit to National Hockey League ([1]), believe it or not, "comprises" does mean "is made up of". Using "is comprised of" is seen as incorrect by many (though it's becoming more common). See, for example, thefreedictionary and M-W. Both note that there is a usage problem with the latter definition, hence my edit summary comment that "comprising" is "more correct". "Two conferences, each comprising three divisions" means "two conferences, each made up of three divisions", which is the intent of the sentence. In informal usage, "comprised of three divisions" may mean the same thing, and even though "opposition to this usage is abating" (thefreedictionary), I think we're better off with a non-controversial usage. Maybe it would be even better still not to use the word at all, and to choose an alternative. --Fru1tbat 19:12, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your note. I must admit, however, that I find the contention in thefreedictionary relating to the usage of "comprise" vs "compose" while perhaps true, is nonetheless logically unconvincing because it introduces unnecessary ambiguity. For greater clarity (and also to add information on the actual numerical composition of the conferences and divisions) I have changed the text in the NHL article to the following: "The NHL is divided into two fifteen-team conferences each of which consists of three five-team divisions." Centpacrr 21:53, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, "compose" is unambiguous. The problem is that "comprise" has come to mean both its original meaning and the exact opposite (kind of like "moot" [2]), so ambiguity is unavoidable, really. Traditional usage would be "the league comprises 30 teams". Modern usage might be "30 teams comprise the league". To me, that should mean "30 teams are made up of the league", but in reality you rarely see it that way anyway. That meaning is always (in my experience) used passively, i.e. "is comprised of". I accept that it's common, but it has become somewhat idiomatic -- I doubt many people who use that meaning would be able to define "comprise" by itself, without the "is" and "of"... In any case, I think the change you made to the article works well.

Thanks for the note on the railroad article, by the way. I notice you're in the Philly area (as I am). Can't be quite as much fun working Flyers games this season...

--Fru1tbat 14:23, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

I must admit that the logic as to why and how "comprise" may have fallen into a state of acceptable "androgynous" usage escapes me. A puzzlement to be sure.

It has indeed been a dismal hockey season in Philadelphia this year (both with the Flyers and Phantoms), but after working more than 3,000 pro hockey games over the past 37 years I don't get too wound up one way or the other about wins and losses. As my friend the late Flyer coach Fred Shero used to say, "I don't really think about the games, that just drives you crazy." The game is still fun for me, just not quite as much fun this year as it has been in others. (For more information see my informal hockey site at HockeyScoop.net.)

I hope you find the Stevens' Camden & Amboy article interesting. While not an engineer myself (I am a writer), I come from a long line of engineers. Both my father and grandfather were EE's, my great grandfather a CE, and great great grandfather a CE and ME. (He was the chief assistant engineer of the Central Pacific Railroad and did much of the engineering and design on for the original construction over the Sierras in the 1860's.[3]) Centpacrr 01:22, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Philadelphia Firebirds

Hi. I figured you could clarify this: Were the Philadelphia Firebirds of the NAHL and the AHL the same franchise? I ask this because I know the Broome Dusters/Binghamton Dusters are actually distinct franchises: the Providence Reds relocated and assumed the Dusters identity. Just curious. Thanks. ccwaters 19:32, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Both franchises had the same ownership, wore the same uniforms, used some of the same players, and had mostly the same front office staff, but were otherwise distinct franchises. The NAHL folded in the summer of 1977 and all of those franchises died with it. The owners of the NAHL clubs in Philadelphia and Binghamton, however, wanted to continue to operate teams. Binghamton bought and moved the inactive Providence Reds franchise while the Firebirds acquired an expansion AHL franchise which they operated in Philadelphia for two seasons. (In 1977-78 they were affiliated with the Detroit Red Wings and in 1978-79 with the Colorado Rockies, which both at the time very poor NHL clubs.) After the 1978-79 season the Firebirds' owners moved the club to Syracuse and were affiliated with the Quebec Nordiques for the 1979-80 season after which they suspended operations. Binghamton operated as the Broome Dusters (also using the same name and uniforms as the NAHL club) from 1977 to 1980. The franchise was acquired by the Hartford Whalers in 1980 and operated as the Binghamton Whalers for the next ten seasons, and was then taken over by the New York Rangers in 1990 and played as the Binghamton Rangers from 1990 to 1997. For the next five seasons (1997-2002) the Broome County Icemen of the United Hockey League provided professional hockey to Binghamton before the AHL returned in 2002-03 with the Binghamton Senators. Centpacrr 22:05, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

National Defense Reserve Fleet

Cen, I reverted your addition of the photo of the USS Iowa, because I don't believe it is part of the NDRF. With very few exceptions, NDRF is for merchant-type ships. I didn't see Iowa in the current NDRF inventory at the bottom of the article. Iowa is probably in some other fleet. If I'm wrong about this, by all means put the photo back in. Lou Sander 04:43, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

See U.S. Department of Transportation Maritime Administration National Defense Reserve Fleet Inventory Jan. 31, 2007, page 16 Centpacrr 05:11, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Oops! Before I removed the photo, I went through that list twice, looking for the Iowa and not finding it. Should have used Windows' Find, I guess. Sorry. Lou Sander 05:55, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

No problem. I actually took this photograph myself from the deck of the SS Jeremiah O'Brien on a cruise by that 1943 Liberty ship to Suisun Bay in August, 2005, so I had no doubt as to the Iowa's identity or location. Centpacrr 03:31, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

A couple months ago I spent some time working on several articles about mothball fleets of various kinds. It wasn't easy, because the official names of these places have changed over the years, and ship's histories will say "she ended up in X" when X isn't around any longer. The NDRF has its nice, frequently updated inventory, but I haven't found anything like that for the combatant ships. And of course it doesn't help when there's a big battleship sitting in the midst of all those merchant-type vessels. Overall, it's kind of interesting seeing where ships end up. When I was a naval officer in the 1960s, we used to say "they made razor blades out of them." My ship, the USS Rankin ended up as a fishing and diving reef off the coast of Stuart, Florida. Lou Sander 03:45, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

High and the Mighty

I do mightily appreciate and like what you've contributed to this article. The film's emphasis on character development (and its lack of any real violence) sets it way apart from those "Airport" movies which followed (though they do seem to have been clumsy imitations). Any changes I make are meant only to get the article's syntax and structure in the realm of standardized language and punctuation, along with some minor WP factoring standards. As it cleans up, the character capsules seem more and more ok and helpful to me as they are. Anyway, I only wanted to let you know my thinking! Cheers! Gwen Gale 02:49, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Sesquicentennial Exposition

What a wonderful addition to this article! --Butseriouslyfolks 20:01, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Image:1938 IAHL consolidated.jpg

Hello. I would like to use this pic in wiki fr to illustrate the AHL article. Where do you find it please? Supertoff 15:09, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

I scanned the article from an original in my files. You are welcome to link to it at <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:1938_IAHL_consolidated.jpg> Centpacrr 16:00, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Ok Thanks, I imported it in wikimedias commons here, i hope you will agree. Supertoff 20:07, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Maritime trades invite

Hey Centpacrr, I'm bouncing this invite off the Wikipedians I can find that mention they are current or former mariners. If the project seems interesting, well, the more the merrier! Cheers. Haus42 13:59, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Philadelphia Rockets

I have recently created the Philadelphia Rockets article. Could you please help improve this entry in Wikipedia? Thanks. Flibirigit 15:01, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Ice Hockey Project discussion of hockey player notability and project scope

Please come join the WikiProject Ice Hockey Notability standards for hockey players discussion. I'd like to see input from all our project members who have an opinion. Thanks! ColtsScore 23:29, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Donner Pass

Please discuss why you reverted my changes (as I discussed why I made them on the talk page). While I'm not perfect I still contend my changes were appropriate and a good start. Namely:

• The article in its current state is excessive in links to cprr.org. Needs to rely less on a single source.
• The article is not correct, by todays names Yuba pass is not traversed by a railroad (it is traversed by California Highway 49) and so the article is wrong without noting the change in name. The pass mentioned here is now called Emigrant Gap as I corrected in the article before you reverted it. In fact I was and still am debating if this paragraph needs to be removed and placed on the wikipedia page for Emigrant Gap.

see: http://ohv.parks.ca.gov/default.asp?page_id=23049 amongst MANY others as evidence that the current wikipedia page is wrong.

I'm not saying the article in its current state is bad, in fact somebody did a lot of work. But it can always be made better.

Please advise Davemeistermoab 23:18, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

While working on a minor clarification involving Yuba pass and Emigrant gap, I'm noting that the Central Pacific Railroad Museum's website is linked EXTENSIVELY and is the only source used. While I agree this is an excellent resource and good site. We don't want it to appear like wikipedia is just cloning someone else's work. I'm going to consolidate some links to this site and instead list them as a reference. Not meaning to offend. Please discuss any objections.Davemeistermoab 18:55, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

The links and references to, and materials and information derived from, the CPRR Museum site are used with permission as I am the original author and/or compiler of these materials and the photographer/creator of the digital images and 360º interactive QTVR panoramas of Donner Pass. Because of the vast scope of our site (more than 5,000 pages) I have included specific links to relevent pages and images which would otherwise be hard to find for the casual visitor. Centpacrr 23:10, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Fair enough. I can respect and agree with that, I've browsed the cprr.org site and agree there is a LOT of info. I also respect and am amazed at the work done both here and at cprr.org.

But still, links change, servers change. All it takes is only one change in management at the cprr.org site and every link on this page will be broken. Most other project I work on encourage any external link as a footnote with (last retrieved on XXXXXX) next to every external link. I would argue that that is the right thing to do. I would also argue that it should be noted that the cprr.org has given their permission for wikipedia to "borrow" content, and the source of that permission should be included as a footnote. It's been my experience that 10 years later, when somebody asks, these details are difficult to find.

I also still feel it was right to note that this is not the same Yuba pass as todays maps denote and this content is more appropriate at the Emigrant Gap page. I meant no harm by the changes. Cheers Davemeistermoab 23:31, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

I have spent many hundreds hours over the past eight years since the online CPRR Museum was launched in February, 1999, researching and writing about the CPRR (including a 445-page book published in 2005) and have personally walked and photographed many sections of its Sierra grade between Newcastle and Donner Pass much of which was surveyed, located by, and then built under the personal supervsion of my great great grandfather, Lewis M. Clement, who was the CPRR's Chief Assistant Engineer and Superintendent of Track during the entire construction of the line (1862-69) and beyond until leaving the company 1881. The railroad related text in the Donner Pass entry is not borrowed from the Museum but was written by me for the entry here. I have written very much more extensively on this same subject in pages I have created for the Museum some of which are included in links within the text. The additional external links are to my extensive photographic gallery and interactive panoramas. As I am also personally involved in the operation of the Museum site, there is no chance that links to it would not be updated by me if in the Donner Pass entry if any of them were to change. The links to the site contained with the text are to pages containing relavent original source materials which I have collected, transcribed, annotated, and illustrated, and which by in large can be found nowhere else on the internet.

I have also removed your footnote about Emigrant Gap which is erroneous, The 1952 stranding of the "City of San Francisco" did indeed occur at Yuba Pass on Track #2 adjacent to Tunnel 35 (Track #1) at about MP 176.5. Emigrant Gap is located a little more than four miles further West along the Sierra grade. Thank you for your interest. Best. Centpacrr 06:29, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your diligence. I'm both embarrassed and still pondering. I have stood, if not at this exact spot, close to it on a few occasions and have never seen it marked with a name. contrary to the [CA-49] Yuba Pass which is marked with much fanfare. I assumed the names changed with time, but that's not right either. According to your museum the engineers considered routing the rail over the [ca-49] Yuba Pass and called this the Yuba Pass alternative. So why did somebody name this spot on the railroad Yuba Pass when a pass just 30 miles north already had this name? Oh well. Anyways thanks for researching this and correcting me. It was not my intent to make the page inaccurate. Davemeistermoab 15:10, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

This location on the CPRR was apparently called Yuba Pass by the railroad from the beginning as this is how it is referred to in the Report of the Chief Enigineer, S.S. Montague, of December, 1865, in which he quotes L.M. Clement, the Engineer-in-Charge of the Second Dvision (Colfax to Summit), at page 13: "From Owl Gap to the Summit, a distance of twenty-four and one-half miles, the work is of much less expensive character, and a good location has been made upon a grade of eighty-five feet per mile. From Owl Gap to Emigrant Gap, a distance of three miles, and thence for four miles along the northern slope of the divide to the Yuba Pass, the work will be light. From the Yuba Pass to Holt's Ravine, the cuttings, though generally light, are mostly in granite or gneiss, and for a short distance in the vicinity of Butte Cañon, in trap. For nearly three fourths of the distance between the Yuba Pass and Holt's Ravine, the work will consist of light side cutting and embankment, and between Holt's Ravine and the Summit, almost wholly of the latter." Centpacrr 17:44, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

FYI, the page on cprr.org I was referring to is here: http://www.cprr.org/Museum/Galloway6.html "The fourth route crossed the canyons of the South and Middle forks of the Yuba River and continued up the North Fork of that river via Downieville and the Yuba Pass, and through Sierra Valley to the Truckee River." Which is the route of modern CA-49 and CA-89 between Aubern and Truckee. Davemeistermoab 01:11, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

The real source of the confusion is that there are actually two places in the Sierras which carry the name "Yuba Pass" -- one in Nevada County at MP176.5 on the CPRR Sierra grade located four miles East of Emigrant Gap and three miles West of Cisco, and another in Sierra County through which CA-49 now passes. Centpacrr 05:55, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Wikimedia Pennsylvania

Hello there!

I'm writing to inform you that we are now forming the first local Wikimedia Chapter in the United States: Wikimedia Pennsylvania. Our goals are to perform outreach and fundraising activities on behalf of the various Wikimedia projects. If you're interested in being a part of the chapter, or just want to know more, you can:

• Contact us on IRC at #wikimedia-pa
• Join our mailing list
• Visit our blog at http://wmfpa.blogspot.com

Thanks and I hope you join up! Cbrown1023 talk 02:45, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

The High and the Mighty

Since we seem to have a serious disagreement on the format of this article, I suggest we list this on Wikipedia:Third opinion. Clarityfiend 21:47, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Belfast, ME page

Your history of the Belfast and Moosehead Lake Railroad is fine, but it should appear on the B&ML RR page (which contains almost nothing) instead monopolizing the Belfast, Maine city history page. Regards,--Hugh Manatee 12:50, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

I have elected to delete my contributions to this page. Centpacrr 22:02, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Image:MLG 1931w.jpg

Hi. Thanks for uploading this image to Wikipedia, and digitally enhancing it. However, the image risks being deleted from Wikipedia due to copyright concerns, unless you are able to provide the following information to the image description page:

• You assert that the image is in the public domain. You need to explain why/how it is in the public domain. Remember that it needs to meet both Canadian (as an image first published in Canada) and American (as the Wikipedia servers are located in the United States) criteria for public domain images.
• You need to provide the source of the image.

Thank you. Skeezix1000 (talk) 19:34, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Toronto Maple Leafs program from the first game at Maple Leaf Gardens, November 12, 1931.

Scanned from original 1931 program cover digitally restored by the contributor.

In accordance with Sec. 12 of the Crown Copyright Law of Canada, this image would have entered the Public Domain in 1981. (“12. Without prejudice to any rights or privileges of the Crown, where any work is, or has been, prepared or published by or under the direction or control of Her Majesty or any government department, the copyright in the work shall, subject to any agreement with the author, belong to Her Majesty and in that case shall continue for the remainder of the calendar year of the first publication of the work and for a period of fifty years following the end of that calendar year." [S.C. 1993, c. 44, s. 60(1)]”)Centpacrr (talk) 19:47, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

That's the Crown copyright provision of the federal Copyright Act. In other words, it only applies to works produced by the federal government. I doubt the government produced and published the program for the Maple Leafs game on November 12, 1931.Skeezix1000 (talk) 20:15, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Sec. 6. The term for which copyright shall subsist shall, except as otherwise expressly provided by this Act, be the life of the author, the remainder of the calendar year in which the author dies, and a period of fifty years following the end of that calendar year. (R.S., 1985, c. C-42, s. 6; 1993, c. 44, s. 58).Centpacrr (talk) 16:10, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

That's better, but still not enough. In order for that to apply, you need to know the name of the artist and his or her date of death, so as to show that the required 50 years has passed. And the image needs to have become public domain prior to 1996 (i.e. the 50 year period expired), so as to also be considered public domain in the United States. I hate to be hassling you, but Wikipedia is becoming stricter and stricter with this sort of thing -- this is a good image, and it will be deleted at some point unless this information is provided. Do you know who the author is? If not, perhaps a fair use rationale would suffice in this instance (at least for now). Skeezix1000 (talk) 18:42, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

The copyright for the publication, of which this cover illustration was an integral part, was vested in its publisher ("Maple Leaf Gardens, Ltd") which, as a limited liability corporation, was not a "natural person" and therefore would have no date of death. That being the case, under Canadian law copyright would thus appear to have lapsed 50 years after the year of publication (1931), i.e., in 1982, at which time this illustration would have entered the Public Domain.Centpacrr (talk) 22:53, 1 February 2008 (UTC)