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{{for|the New York City Zodiac copycat|Heriberto Seda}}
[[Category:Non-talk pages that are automatically signed]]{{Wikipedia:Reference desk/header|WP:RD/M}}
{{for|the Japanese Zodiac copycat|Seito Sakakibara}}
<!-- Unsourced image removed: [[Image:Zodiac3.jpg|A police composite sketch of the Zodiac killer.]] -->
{{Infobox Serial Killer
| name=Zodiac Killer
| image=Zodiac-logo.png
| image_size=152px
| caption=The symbol used by the Zodiac Killer in signing his correspondence.
| birthname=
| alias=
| birth=
| location=
| death=
| cause=
| victims=Five killed, two injured; thirty seven claimed
| country=U.S.
| states=[[California]]
| beginyear=1968 (possibly as early as 1963)
| endyear=1969 (possibly as late as 1970)
| apprehended=Unapprehended
| penalty=
}}
'''The Zodiac Killer''' is a [[serial killer]] who operated in [[Northern California]] in the late 1960s. His identity remains unknown. The Zodiac coined his name in a series of taunting letters he sent to the press. His letters included four [[cryptogram]]s (or [[cipher]]s), three of which have yet to be solved.


The Zodiac murdered five known victims in [[Benicia, California|Benicia]], [[Vallejo, California|Vallejo]], [[Lake Berryessa]], and [[San Francisco, California|San Francisco]] between December 1968 and October 1969. Four men and three women between the ages of 16 and 29 were targeted. Others have also been suspected to be Zodiac victims, albeit inconclusively. The lack of consensus about the number of victims, the inability of law enforcement to crack the ciphers, and the fact that several people have inconclusively been portrayed as "persons of interest" or possible suspects, has elicited this case's designation as a [[perfect crime]].
{{Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2008 October 4}}


In April 2004, the [[San Francisco Police Department]] marked the case "inactive", but reopened it some time before March 2007. The case remains open in other jurisdictions as well.
{{Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2008 October 5}}


In September 2008, a [[Sacramento, California|Sacramento]] man came forward and said that he had found evidence that pointed to his step-father being the Zodiac Killer. A blood-stained cape, a bloody knife and rolls of photographic film are being examined by the FBI, along with other personal effects and writing samples. The FBI expects testing to be complete by mid-October 2008.<ref>Lowe, David. [http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/woman/real_life/article1639059.ece Zodiac Serial Killer Found?]; [[The Sun (UK)]]; [[2008-10-01]]; accessed [[2008-10-01]].</ref> <ref>Bronstein, Phil. [http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/bronstein/detail?&entry_id=29770 Bronstein At Large: Is this it for the Zodiac Killer?]; [[The San Francisco Chronicle]]; accessed [[2008-10-01]].</ref> <ref>Pickel, Kris. [http://cbs13.com/slideshows/zodia.killer.sacramento.20.805871.html Zodiac Killer's Identity And Weapon Uncovered?]; [[CBS 13, Sacramento, California]]; accessed [[2008-10-01]].</ref>
{{Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2008 October 6}}


===Confirmed===
= October 7 =
Although the Zodiac claimed in letters to newspapers that he murdered as many as 37 people, investigators agree on only seven confirmed victims, two of whom survived. They are:


* David Arthur Faraday, 17 and Betty Lou Jensen, 16: Shot and killed on December 20, 1968, on Lake Herman Road just within the city limits of Benicia.
==Wikipedia calendars==
* Michael Renault Mageau, 19, and Darlene Elizabeth Ferrin, 22: Shot on July 4, 1969, at the Blue Rock Springs Golf Course parking lot on the outskirts of Vallejo; Darlene was DOA at Kaiser Foundation Hospital, while Michael survived.
The previous question brought to my attention the calendars that Wikipedia uses with each week beginning on Monday. Most of the printed calendars I have seen have each week beginning on Sunday. Is there a reason that Wikipedia's begin on a Monday? Was there discussion about this? —[[User:D Monack|D. Monack]] [[User talk:D Monack|<sup>''talk''</sup>]] 03:24, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
* [[Bryan Calvin Hartnell]], 20, and Cecelia Ann Shepard, 22: Stabbed on September 27, 1969 at Lake Berryessa in Napa County. Hartnell survived six stab wounds to the back, but Shepard died of her injuries two days later.
* Paul Lee Stine, 29: Shot and killed on October 11, 1969, in Presidio Heights in San Francisco.


===Suspected===
:I can't really answer your question, but since we got an edit conflict I will point out that I got in trouble in primary school for starting the day of the week with Monday instead of Sunday. From the argument that resulted between my parents and the teacher it seems like starting on Monday is something that originated in Ireland/England and has some religious significance to it, whereas starting on Sunday is the more accepted format. I personally go with Monday being the first day of the week, because otherwise Sunday is more of a weekstart rather than a weekend. [[Special:Contributions/138.130.144.33|138.130.144.33]] ([[User talk:138.130.144.33|talk]]) 03:27, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
Many others have been identified as potential Zodiac victims, although evidence is inconclusive. Of the following popular suspected victims, none have been confirmed:


* Robert Domingos, 18, and Linda Edwards, 17: Shot and killed on June 4, 1963, at a beach near Lompoc. Edwards and Domingos were named as possible Zodiac victims because of specific similarities between their attack and the Zodiac's attack at Lake Berryessa six years later.<ref name="SBMURDER"/>
:: "is more of a weekstart rather than a weekend." Every line segment has two ends. [[User:APL|APL]] ([[User talk:APL|talk]]) 13:13, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
* Cheri Jo Bates, 18: Stabbed to death and nearly decapitated on October 30, 1966, at Riverside Community College in Riverside. Bates' possible connection to the Zodiac only came to light four years after her murder when San Francisco Chronicle reporter Paul Avery received a tip regarding similarities between the Zodiac killings and the circumstances surrounding Bates' death.<ref name="peekaboo"/>
* Kathleen Johns, 22: Abducted on March 22, 1970, on Highway 132 by I-580, west of Modesto. Johns escaped from the car of a man who drove her and her infant daughter around on the backroads between Stockton and Patterson for some three hours. After escaping to the police station in Patterson, she saw the Zodiac's wanted poster and identified him as her kidnapper.<ref name="JOHNSREPORT"/>
* [[Donna Lass]], 25: Last seen September 26, 1970, in South Lake Tahoe. A postcard with an ad from Forest Pines condominiums (near Incline Village at Lake Tahoe) pasted on the back was received at the Chronicle on March 22, 1971, and has been interpreted by some as the Zodiac claiming Lass' disappearance as a victim. However, no evidence has ever been uncovered to connect Donna Lass's disappearance with the Zodiac Killer.<ref name="autogenerated1">[http://www.zodiackiller.com/Lass.html Possible Zodiac Victim Donna Lass<!-- Bot generated title -->]</ref>


==Timeline==
:My understanding is that Sunday, being the Christian sabbath, was traditionally considered the most important day of the week, and thus was considered to be the start of the week. The concept of the "weekend", which just happens to include Sunday, is a relatively recent arrival, and only because the majority of employment conditions stopped requiring people to work on at least a part of Saturday. I can still remember when mail was delivered on a Saturday, and there were 2 deliveries on week days. Now it's one delivery on weekdays, then you wait till Monday. The "working week" starts on Monday; but many places and people still regard the "week" as beginning on Sunday. But it's not formalised anywhere, and it's essentially arbitrary, so in a particular context you can start the week on any day you please. -- [[User:JackofOz|JackofOz]] ([[User talk:JackofOz|talk]]) 06:26, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
===Lake Herman Road===
::You don't get mail on Saturdays? [[User:Gwinva|Gwinva]] ([[User talk:Gwinva|talk]]) 07:35, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
The first murders widely attributed to the Zodiac Killer were the shootings of high school students '''Betty Lou Jensen''' and '''David Faraday''' on December 20, 1968, just outside the [[Benicia, California|Benicia]] city limits.
:::Not snail mail, anyway. Do you? -- [[User:JackofOz|JackofOz]] ([[User talk:JackofOz|talk]]) 07:39, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
::::In the States we do, in Canada no. --[[User:Trovatore|Trovatore]] ([[User talk:Trovatore|talk]]) 07:40, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
::::UK yes; NZ yes. [[User:Gwinva|Gwinva]] ([[User talk:Gwinva|talk]]) 08:40, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
:::::Wow. We changed all that back in, I think, the mid-70s. I wouldn't like to say whether this is progress or the reverse. -- [[User:JackofOz|JackofOz]] ([[User talk:JackofOz|talk]]) 21:53, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
::I think the idea of Sunday as the first day is not so much because it's the most important, as that according to Genesis, the ''very'' first day was a Sunday. God rested on the seventh day, which was Saturday (the original Sabbath).
::By the way, one possible interpretation of "weekend" is like "bookends" -- they're the days at ''both'' ends of the week, not just the latter end. --[[User:Trovatore|Trovatore]] ([[User talk:Trovatore|talk]]) 07:27, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
:::That doesn't work - "bookends" is plural - the thing at each end is a bookend, the two together are bookend'''''s'''''. Saturday isn't "A weekend" - and Saturday and Sunday together are not "Weekend'''''s'''''". For your theory to be correct, both Saturday and Sunday would be weekends and we have two weekends each week...but we don't. [[User:SteveBaker|SteveBaker]] ([[User talk:SteveBaker|talk]]) 11:43, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
::I'd always understood that the business week ran from Monday, whereas an actual week ran from Sunday. This fits with the business diaries I use, in which a week covers 2 sides, 3 days on the first side, 4 on the second, with the weekend squashed into 1 day's worth - I guess because you were unlikely to have appointments on the weekend. --[[User:Worm That Turned|WORM]] | [[User talk:Worm That Turned| MЯOW]] 07:36, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
:We don't seem to have an article, but we do have [[Week#First day of the week|a short section]] on this. It fails to mention that in [[University of Cambridge|some places]], weeks begin on Thursday. [[User talk:Algebraist|Algebraist]] 08:40, 7 October 2008 (UTC)


The couple were on their first date and planned to attend a Christmas concert at Hogan High a few blocks from Jensen's home. Instead they visited a friend and stopped at a local restaurant, then drove out Lake Herman Road. At about 10:15 pm Faraday parked his mother's [[Rambler (automobile)|Rambler]] in a gravel turnout, which was a well-known [[lover's lane]].
:See [[ISO 8601]], particularly the week numbering part. To number weeks you have to define when a week starts, and ISO defines the start day as Monday. [[Special:Contributions/195.35.160.133|195.35.160.133]] ([[User talk:195.35.160.133|talk]]) 13:14, 7 October 2008 (UTC) Martin.


Shortly after 11 pm, another car pulled into the turnout and parked beside them. The driver apparently got out with a pistol and ordered them out of the Rambler. Jensen exited first. When Faraday was halfway out, the man shot Faraday in the head. Fleeing, Jensen was gunned down twenty-eight feet from the car by five shots through her back. The man then drove off.<ref>{{cite book
==Help With Meat==
| last = Graysmith
| first =Robert
| authorlink =
| coauthors =
| title = Zodiac
| publisher =Berkley
| date =1976
| location =
| pages =4 - 7
| url =
| doi =
| id =
| isbn = 0-425-09808-7}}</ref>


Their bodies were found minutes later by Stella Borges, who lived nearby. The Solano County Sheriff's Department investigated the crime but no leads developed.<ref>{{cite web | title=Dec. 20, 1968 - Lake Herman Road | url=http://www.clint.ca/zodiac/lakeherman.htm | accessdate=2008-06-16}}</ref>
Ok I'm in really deep shit because I just cooked about 10 [[frankfurt]]s for my dinner when I was only meant to cook 3. I'm not up to eating them all, and my roomate's going to kill me if I throw them out. Can I put them back into the fridge? If not what can I do with them? [[Special:Contributions/138.130.144.33|138.130.144.33]] ([[User talk:138.130.144.33|talk]]) 03:27, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
:Sure, just put them in the fridge and reheat them tomorrow. [[User:Plasticup|<b><font color="#0080FF">Plasticup</font></b>]] [[User_Talk:Plasticup |<font color="#2A8E82"><sup><small>T</small></sup></font>]]/[[Special:Contributions/Plasticup|<font color="#2A8E82"><small>C</small></font>]] 03:32, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
::Yeah, franks are pre-cooked. All you really did was warm them up. You can safely eat the cold, straight from the store, as well. --[[User:Jayron32|Jayron32]].[[User talk:Jayron32|<small>talk</small>]].[[Special:Contributions/Jayron32|<small>contribs</small>]] 03:36, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
:::Note that the gustatory quality is unlikely to be improved by repeated heating and chilling, but the nutritional content may remain about the same, in terms of the grams of protein, carbohydrate and fat. [[User:Edison|Edison]] ([[User talk:Edison|talk]]) 04:14, 7 October 2008 (UTC)


===Blue Rock Springs===
Hmm, I only know two frankfurts (Frankfurt am Main and Frankfurt an der Oder). Where are the other eight? --[[User:Trovatore|Trovatore]] ([[User talk:Trovatore|talk]]) 07:38, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
Some time around midnight on July 4 - July 5, 1969, '''Darlene Ferrin''' and '''Michael Mageau''' drove to the Blue Rock Springs Golf Course in [[Vallejo, California| Vallejo]], four miles from the Lake Herman Road murder site, and parked. While they sat in Ferrin's car, another car drove into the lot and parked beside them. It drove away almost immediately, then returned about 10 minutes later and parked behind them. The driver then got out and approached the passenger side door, carrying a flashlight and a [[9 mm Luger Parabellum|9 mm]] handgun. He first shone the light in their eyes to blind them, then shot both of them multiple times and began to return to his car. When Mageau moaned in pain, the driver returned and shot them both again. He then drove off.<ref>Graysmith, pp. 26 - 28.</ref>
:It's the Australian term for a [[frankfurter]], according to [[Frankfurt (disambiguation)]]. [[User talk:Algebraist|Algebraist]] 08:35, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
::I'm sure at [[Harry Frankfurt]]'s family reunions, there are more Frankfurts than at a [[Walla Walla, New South Wales|Walla Walla]] weenie roast. [[User:Darkspots|Darkspots]] ([[User talk:Darkspots|talk]]) 12:15, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
::::There'd be no weenies there. We call them "little boys" (snigger), "saveloys", or "cocktail franks". But there may be many weenies in this [[Walla Walla, Washington|Walla Walla]]. -- [[User:JackofOz|JackofOz]] ([[User talk:JackofOz|talk]]) 21:48, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
:As a rule of thumb, you can safely reheat food once. More than that is risky (every time you heat and cool it down it spends a while being warm which is when germs grow the most). --[[User:Tango|Tango]] ([[User talk:Tango|talk]]) 19:46, 7 October 2008 (UTC)


At 12:40 am, a man phoned the Vallejo Police Department to report and claim responsibility for the attack. He also took credit for the murders of Jensen and Faraday six and a half months earlier. The police [[Telephone tapping|traced the call]] to a [[Telephone booth|phone booth]] at a gas station at Springs Road and Tuolumne, about three tenths of a mile from Ferrin's home and only a few blocks from the Vallejo Police Department.<ref>Graysmith, pp. 32 - 33.</ref><ref>{{cite web | title= Vallejo | publisher=AOL | url=http://members.aol.com/Jakewark/vallejo.html | accessdate=2008-09-16}}</ref>
== Question regarding academic dishonesty ==
:<small>Note:Question title changed to a more descriptive title --[[User:Jayron32|Jayron32]].[[User talk:Jayron32|<small>talk</small>]].[[Special:Contributions/Jayron32|<small>contribs</small>]] 12:16, 7 October 2008 (UTC)</small>
I know someone who cheated on a test of Alevels and i am very angry because he got an A he does not deserve and i had to work hard to get my A. How can i report this to OCR? --[[User:JD77|JD77]] ([[User talk:JD77|talk]]) 12:12, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
:Free advice you didn't ask for: karma will bite him in the ass eventually, you don't have to lift a finger. Let it go, these people are their own rewards. [[User:Darkspots|Darkspots]] ([[User talk:Darkspots|talk]]) 12:18, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
::For non-UK readers, [[A level]]s are the examinations upon which entrance to university is based and [[OCR (examination board)|OCR]] is one of the bodies that conduct the exams. To the questioner: you need to gather evidence you have that the person cheated and then write to OCR with the details. Send a copy to the examining centre (i.e. the school or college.) You can make the report anonymously but if you want it to be taken seriously then eventually you may need to reveal your name. If you are not absolutely sure that this person cheated, then you should not make the complaint. But if you think there are weaknesses in the system so that cheating is possible, you should write to OCR and QCA about this. [[User:Itsmejudith|Itsmejudith]] ([[User talk:Itsmejudith|talk]]) 12:29, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
:::The OP may not have any evidence that they can give OCR except their own written statement. They may have seen the person consulting notes during an exam, for example. That is not provable by the OP but that does not mean the matter should end there. The OP should be able to write to OCR with their suspicions and OCR should investigate the allegation themselves. Once an allegation has been made the onus should be on OCR to satisfy themeselves as to whether it is true or not. Yes, that might mean that OCR could get a large number of baseless allegations which they would have to investigate but I think that comes with the territory. See [[Whistleblower]]. --[[User:Richardrj|Richardrj]] [[User talk:Richardrj|<sup>talk </sup>]][[Special:Emailuser/Richardrj|<sup>email</sup>]] 12:41, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
:If I were in this position, I would discuss my concerns with the (alleged) cheater and ask that he cancel his score and retake the test. He will probably take it as implicit that if he doesn't do so you might tell the testing board, you will have done him a kindness both in giving him the benefit of the doubt and giving him an opportunity to correct his ways if he did in fact cheat, and it might be more effective since you probably don't have any incontrovertible evidence against him. --[[User:TotoBaggins|Sean]] 14:10, 7 October 2008 (UTC)


Ferrin was pronounced dead at the hospital. Mageau survived the attack despite being shot in the face, neck, and chest.<ref>Graysmith, p. 29.</ref>
::Or said cheater will punch you in the mouth and then tell the entire school that you are a "[[snitch]]". I mean, in an ideal fantasy world good would out and bad would get their just desserts but in real life there are practical reasons for not necessarily taking it upon yourself to confront people. You have to judge the circumstances as they are. We don't necessarily live in a movie where the good guy always wins. There are many societies in which denouncing a peer can lead to unpleasant consequences. I'm all about punishing the bad guy but that's a lot harder to do if you're on the same peer level as them. --[[Special:Contributions/98.217.8.46|98.217.8.46]] ([[User talk:98.217.8.46|talk]]) 14:23, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
:::I think a school full of people that worked hard to get their grades would not side with the cheater. --[[User:Tango|Tango]] ([[User talk:Tango|talk]]) 14:32, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
::::Well, you must not have gone to my school, then! --[[Special:Contributions/140.247.11.36|140.247.11.36]] ([[User talk:140.247.11.36|talk]]) 14:32, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
::Can you just cancel a score? You would have to admit to cheating (why else would you do it?) and if you do that they are likely to cancel all your exams scores (at least, all the ones with that exam board) and you would have to resit everything. --[[User:Tango|Tango]] ([[User talk:Tango|talk]]) 14:32, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
:::No, in the UK system you cannot cancel an A Level score. It will be permanently on the record. I have never heard of a case in which a student who gained an A grade would retake the exam. [[User:Itsmejudith|Itsmejudith]] ([[User talk:Itsmejudith|talk]]) 14:38, 7 October 2008 (UTC)


===The Zodiac letters begin===
:I would probably find someone at your school (a teacher, an advisor, whatever) who you really trust, and tell them about it, tell them you don't really want to have your name personally associated with it, but impress them with your sincerity. Then, if they think it is worth pursuing, they can be the one who talks to the testing organization, talks to the student, whatever. Then you don't have to be the one calling out fellow students. Just my two cents. The likelihood is that they will say they have insufficient evidence and drop it (because unless cases of academic dishonesty are concrete administration doesn't usually try to pursue them—too much risk of getting accused of trying to slander someone's record). (I say this as a teacher who has been involved in a number of cases of academic dishonesty regarding students in the USA, anyway. I've gotten two kids kicked out of college for it so far! Be warned, kiddos!) --[[Special:Contributions/98.217.8.46|98.217.8.46]] ([[User talk:98.217.8.46|talk]]) 14:40, 7 October 2008 (UTC)


[[Image:Zodiac cipher.png|250px|right|thumbnail|The solution to Zodiac's 408-symbol cipher. The meaning, if any, of the final eighteen letters has not been determined.<REF NAME="408-cipher">Graysmith, pp. 54 - 55.</REF>]]
←I saw several cases of cheating when I was in high school. Large assignments that were done collaboratively by a large number of students that were supposed to be individual work. Exams that people knew the answers to. People who cheated off my tests. I was frustrated, sure. But I slogged through studying for the exams on my own, wrote the papers, and now I have a nice body of knowledge of history and literature (to name two subjects where the worst dishonesty ocurred) that I draw on and add to. I never informed on anyone, and at no point in the intervening years (never mind how many) when I've run into these people have I regretted that choice. Some of them are miserable bastards. Their misery is not directly related to the cheating, but at least I can tell myself that ''I'' didn't ruin their lives, they did it to themselves. I'm sure my attitude has something to do with my finishing college and never getting near academia again; I'd feel differently if I were a teacher, I'm sure. But you did the work. You got the A level. Nobody can take that away from you, and you're proud of your knowledge, right? If you rat this guy out, ten years from now you'll see him and you'll feel small and vindictive, no matter how everything turns out for him. Whistleblowers who expose corruption and abuse of power do hard work that benefits society. All that hangs in the balance here is one man's career, and he's taken nothing away from you. My opinion, you should do the right thing for yourself. [[User:Darkspots|Darkspots]] ([[User talk:Darkspots|talk]]) 15:13, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
:which of OCRs emails should i send something like this? --[[User:JD77|JD77]] ([[User talk:JD77|talk]]) 15:18, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
:People cheating does take away from other people's results, though. If people get results they don't deserve then it devalues the qualification. Consider how you would feel if both you and the cheater went up for the same job and he got it - had he not had that A, you would probably have got it instead. --[[User:Tango|Tango]] ([[User talk:Tango|talk]]) 15:21, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
::Email general.qualifications@ocr.org.uk. Say that you would like to report a case of cheating and would they let you know the appropriate address to write to. Make the actual report on paper. Don't give the person's name in the first letter but say what syllabus/module/type of assessment, why you think it was cheating and give them enough info so they can see where the weakness in the system was. Say you hope they will be able to investigate and if they can then you will supply more information. Remember they must get hundreds of letters from people who just hate their neighbours. They can't investigate all of them but they have a duty to investigate if there is something to go on. They also have a duty to continually improve their systems. [[User:Itsmejudith|Itsmejudith]] ([[User talk:Itsmejudith|talk]]) 15:27, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
I am gona make myself a new msn account to email anonymously. By doing that theres no way they can find out who i am right? --[[User:JD77|JD77]] ([[User talk:JD77|talk]]) 15:32, 7 October 2008 (UTC)


On August 1, 1969, three letters prepared by Zodiac were received at the ''[[Vallejo Times-Herald]]'', the ''[[San Francisco Chronicle]]'', and the ''[[San Francisco Examiner]]''. The nearly identical letters took credit for the shootings at Lake Herman Road and Blue Rock Springs. Each letter also included one-third of a 408-symbol cryptogram which the killer claimed contained his identity. Zodiac demanded they be printed on each paper's front page or he would "cruse [sic] around all weekend killing lone people in the night then move on to kill again, until I end up with a dozen people over the weekend."<ref>Graysmith, p. 49.</ref> The ''Chronicle'' published its third of the cryptogram on page four of the next day's edition. An article printed alongside the code quoted Vallejo Police Chief Jack E. Stiltz as saying "We're not satisfied that the letter was written by the murderer" and requested the writer send a second letter with more facts to prove his identity.<ref>[http://cdn.sfgate.com/chronicle/acrobat/2007/02/25/zodiac_1969_08_02_a.pdf Coded Clues in Murders]. ''San Francisco Chronicle'', [[August 2|2 August]] 1969. Accessed [[July 21|21 July]] 2007.</ref> The threatened murders did not happen, and all three parts were eventually published.
:But likely neither will they take your accusation seriously or be able to investigate it fully. If you want to get action taken, you will likely have to identity yourself. Also, they will be more likely to take your accusation seriously if you use correct capitalization, spelling, and grammar in your message, unlike in your posts above. —[[User:Lowellian|Lowellian]] ([[User talk:Lowellian|reply]]) 15:36, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
::You can take a softly-softly approach. Use either a new msn account or your own account. Say you would like to make an accusation of cheating against an individual and a general complaint about how easy it is to cheat. Ask how you should go about this. Keep it short and well spelt like an A Level student should. [[User:Itsmejudith|Itsmejudith]] ([[User talk:Itsmejudith|talk]]) 15:47, 7 October 2008 (UTC)


On August 7, 1969, another letter was received at the ''[[San Francisco Examiner]]'' with the salutation "Dear Editor This is the Zodiac speaking". It was the first time the killer had referred to himself with this name. The letter was in response to Chief Stiltz asking him to provide more details to prove he killed Faraday, Jensen and Ferrin. In it, the Zodiac included details about the murders which had not been released to the public as well as a message to the police that when they cracked his code "they will have me".<ref>Graysmith, pp. 55 - 57.</ref>
It'd be nice to be able to say "the onus is on the anus to own up", which, morally, it is, but that's not what normally happens. -- [[User:JackofOz|JackofOz]] ([[User talk:JackofOz|talk]]) 22:01, 7 October 2008 (UTC)


On August 8, 1969, Donald and Bettye Harden of [[Salinas, California|Salinas]], California, cracked the 408-symbol cryptogram. No name appears in the decoded text. <REF NAME="408-cipher"/>
:I don't know about A-levels, but here in the US where people take Advanced Placement (AP) classes, the [[College Board]] has an "Office of Testing Integrity" where violations can be reported.[http://www.collegeboard.com/student/testing/ap/exsecurity.html] Maybe it would help if an equivalent for A-levels can be found. '''''[[User:Bibliomaniac15|<font color="black">bibliomaniac</font>]][[User talk:Bibliomaniac15|<font color="red">1</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Bibliomaniac15|<font color="blue">5</font>]]''''' 00:24, 8 October 2008 (UTC)


==Media mail==
===Lake Berryessa===
On September 27, 1969, '''Bryan Hartnell''' and '''Cecelia Shepard''' were picnicking at [[Lake Berryessa]] on a small island connected by a sand spit to Twin Oak Ridge. A man approached them wearing a black executioner's-type hood with clip-on sunglasses over the eye-holes and a bib-like device on his chest that had a white 3"x3" cross-circle symbol on it. He approached them with a gun Hartnell believed to be a [[.45 ACP|.45]]. The hooded man claimed to be an escaped convict from [[Deer Lodge, Montana]], where he killed a guard and stole a car, and explained that he needed their car and money to go to [[Mexico]]. He had brought precut lengths of plastic clothesline and told Shepard to tie up Hartnell, before tying her up himself. The Zodiac checked and tightened Hartnell's bonds after discovering she bound him loosely. Hartnell initially believed it to be a weird robbery, but the man drew a knife and stabbed them both. He then hiked 500 yards back up to Knoxville Road, drew the cross-circle symbol on Hartnell's car door with a black felt-tip pen, and wrote beneath it: '''Vallejo/12-20-68/7-4-69/Sept 27-69-6:30/by knife.'''<ref>Graysmith, pp. 62 - 77</ref> <ref> [http://www.zodiackiller.com/KarmannGhia.html Message written on Hartnell's car door]</ref>


At 7:40 p.m., the man called the [[Napa County, California|Napa County]] Sheriff's office from a [[Payphone|pay telephone]] to report his crime. The phone was found still off the hook minutes later at the Napa Car Wash on Main Street in [[Napa, California|Napa]] by [[KVON]] radio reporter Pat Stanley, only a few blocks from the sheriff's office and 27 miles from the crime scene. Detectives were able to lift a still-wet palm print from the telephone but were never able to match it to a suspect.<ref name="Pat Stanley">{{cite web | title= Zodiac on the line ... | first=Pat | last=Stanley | publisher=[[Napa Valley Register]] | url=http://www.napavalleyregister.com/articles/2007/02/18/news/local/iq_3812957.txt | accessdate=2008-09-16 | date=2007-02-18}}</ref>
Why does the [[United States Postal Service]] even offer the option of media mail, which is less expensive than regular parcel post? I was thinking about this, and my initial thought is that it seems economically disadvantageous to them to offer the option; it will only reduce their profits (imagine if they didn't offer the service of media mail: parcel post would still be cheaper then [[UPS]], [[FedEx]], [[DHL]], so if you're going to ship a book, you'd have to use parcel post, and this would mean you'd be paying more, so USPS would be making more money). So why do they offer the option? —[[User:Lowellian|Lowellian]] ([[User talk:Lowellian|reply]]) 15:33, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
:Well, I suspect its because books are much heavier per unit volume than most other items that are likely to be shipped; indeed shipping books would become prohibitively expensive if charged at the normal scales; the result would probably be that much fewer books would actually be shipped via the USPS. Additionally, while the [[United States Postal Service]] is semi-privatized (it used to be a full cabinet level executive department, but is now a government-created corporation, sort of like [[Fannie Mae]], though it is not publicly traded), it is still highly regulated, much as a [[public utility]] is with regards to rate structure. Even more so, since while the need to generate enough profit to be self-sufficient is important, the company is not [[public company|publicly traded]] and so there is no need to maximize shareholder value. Being that a working postal system is a [[public good]] there are incentives beyond merely profit pressure on how the USPS operates. --[[User:Jayron32|Jayron32]].[[User talk:Jayron32|<small>talk</small>]].[[Special:Contributions/Jayron32|<small>contribs</small>]] 16:18, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
:(EC) Several things to remember. 1) the USPS is a govermental organisation and I don't believe profit is their only priority particularly as they are a statutory monopoly. Media mail appears to be used to deliver stuff that are consider of potential educational or social value. 2) are you sure media mail receives the same treatment and level of service as regular parcel post? Possible differences include delivery time frames, handling (stuff in media mail shouldn't be too fragile so they can perhaps be a bit rougher with it), insurance, delivery to the mail box etc? 3) Is media mail easier to handle? I already mention it could probably be subject to rought treatment. Are the types of packages delivered via it also easier to handle? Are they less likely to have problems delivering it? Does it pose a lower security risk to their drivers? Is it easier for them to x-ray or examine the packages? [[User:Nil Einne|Nil Einne]] ([[User talk:Nil Einne|talk]]) 16:29, 7 October 2008 (UTC)


A man and his son who were fishing in a nearby cove had discovered the victims after hearing their screams for help and summoned help by contacting park rangers. Napa County Sheriff Deputies Dave Collins and Ray Land were the first law enforcement officers to arrive at the scene of the assault.<ref>{{cite web | title=Online exclusive: In the wake, of the Zodiac | publisher=[[Napa Valley Register]] | url=http://www.napavalleyregister.com/articles/2007/02/18/news/local/iq_3823497.txt | accessdate=2008-09-16 | date=2007-02-18 | last=Dorgan | first=Marsha}}</ref> Cecelia Shepard was conscious when Collins arrived and gave him a detailed description of the attacker. Hartnell and Shepard were taken to Queen of the Valley Hospital in Napa by ambulance. Shepard lapsed into a coma during transport to the hospital and never regained consciousness. She died two days later, but Hartnell survived to recount his tale to the press.<ref>{{cite web | first=L. Pierce | last=Carson | url=http://www.napavalleyregister.com/articles/2007/02/18/news/local/iq_3823540.txt | title=Zodiac victim: 'I refused to die' | publisher=[[Napa Valley Register]] | date=2007-02-18 | accessdate=2008-09-16}}</ref><ref>{{cite web | url=http://cdn.sfgate.com/chronicle/acrobat/2007/02/25/zodiac_1969_09_30_1.pdf | title=Girl Dies of Stabbing at Berryessa | publisher=[[San Francisco Chronicle]] | accessdate=09-30-1969 | accessdate=2008-09-16}}</ref> Napa County Sheriff Detective Ken Narlow, who was assigned to the case from the outset, worked on solving the crime until his retirement from the department in 1987.<ref>{{cite web | first=Marsha | last=Dorgan | url=http://www.napavalleyregister.com/articles/2007/02/18/news/local/iq_3821597.txt | title=Tracking the mark of the Zodiac for decades | publisher=[[Napa Valley Register]] | accessdate=2008-09-16 | date=2007-02-18}}</ref>
:Media mail is delivered on a "as time and space permit" basis: if they've got extra capacity at a sorting facility, or extra room on a truck, they'll process some media mail parcels. Most of the time, media mail isn't significantly slower than regular mail, but during busy times of the year (Christmas, tax season), it may be delayed by several weeks. --[[User:Carnildo|Carnildo]] ([[User talk:Carnildo|talk]]) 21:20, 7 October 2008 (UTC)


===Presidio Heights===
== Wearing flowers ==
On October 11, 1969, a man entered '''Paul Stine''''s cab at the intersection of Mason and Geary Streets in [[San Francisco]] and requested to be taken to Washington and Maple Streets in [[Neighborhoods in San Francisco, California#Presidio Heights|Presidio Heights]]. For reasons unknown, Stine drove one block further to Cherry Street; the man shot him once in the head with a 9mm, then took his wallet and car keys and tore off his shirt tail. He was observed by three teenagers across the street at 9:55 pm, who called the police as the crime was in progress. They observed the man wiping the cab down, and then walking away towards the Presidio, one block to the north. The police arrived minutes later, and the teen witnesses explained that the killer was still nearby.


Two blocks from the crime scene, Officer Don Fouke, also responding to the call, observed a white man walking along the sidewalk then stepping onto a stairway leading up to the front yard of one of the homes on the north side of the street; the encounter lasted only five to ten seconds. His partner, Eric Zelms, did not see the man. The radio dispatch had alerted them to look for a black and not a white suspect, so they had no reason to talk to the man and drove past him without stopping; the mix up in descriptions remains unexplained to this day. When they reached Cherry, Fouke was informed by Officer Pellisetti that they were in fact looking for a white suspect; Fouke realized they must have passed the killer. Fouke concluded that the Zodiac had resumed his original route and escaped into the [[Presidio of San Francisco|Presidio]], so they entered the base to look for him but the killer had vanished. A search ensued, but nothing was found. The three teen witnesses worked with a police artist to prepare a composite of Stine's killer, and a few days later returned to produce a second composite. The killer was estimated to be 35-45 years of age. Detectives Bill Armstrong and [[Dave Toschi]] were assigned to the case. The San Francisco Police Department eventually investigated an estimated 2,500 suspects over a period of years.<ref>Drake, Rossiter. [http://www.examiner.com/a-593956~Author_believes_he_knows_Zodiac_Killer_s_identity.html Author believes he knows Zodiac Killer's identity]; [[San Francisco Examiner]]; [[2007-03-01]]; accessed [[2007-03-07]].</ref>
Here is a link to a picture of the Japanese play ''[[The Echo, the Arrow and the Chain]]'': http://www.aijaa.com/img/b/00191/2525301.jpg
How do they make the flowers stick so they don't fall off? Do they clamp them on their nipples or something? [[User:JIP|<font color="#CC0000">J</font><font color="#00CC00">I</font><font color="#0000CC">P</font>]] | [[User talk:JIP|Talk]] 15:37, 7 October 2008 (UTC)


===More letters and codes===
:I would guess at double sided selotape, or some less painful equivalent. -''[[User:Mattbuck|mattbuck]]'' <small>([[User talk:Mattbuck|Talk]])</small> 16:19, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
[[Image:Zodiac340cipher.png|250px|right|thumbnail|The unsolved 340-symbol cipher, mailed November 8, 1969.]]On October 14, 1969, the ''Chronicle'' received yet another letter from the Zodiac, this time containing a swatch of Paul Stine's shirt tail as proof he was the killer; it also included a threat about shooting school children. It was only then that the police knew whom they were looking for a few nights before in Presidio Heights.


At 2 a.m. on October 22, 1969, someone claiming to be the Zodiac called [[Oakland, California|Oakland]] PD demanding that one of two prominent lawyers, [[F. Lee Bailey]] or [[Melvin Belli]], appear on [[Jim Dunbar]]'s television talk show in the morning. Bailey was not available, but Belli appeared on the show. Dunbar appealed to the viewers to keep the lines open, and eventually, someone claiming to be the Zodiac called several times and said his name was Sam. Belli agreed to meet with him in Daly City, but the suspect never showed up. Police officers who had heard the Zodiac, listened to "Sam's" voice and agreed that he was not the Zodiac. Subsequent calls the suspect made to Belli were traced to the Napa State Hospital, where it was learned that "Sam" was a psychiatric patient.
:I'm not an expert on stage adhesives, but I do know that double-sided tape is frequently used in the fashion industry to ensure that revealing dresses and such don't become ''too'' revealing. Typically they are formulated with adhesives which are less likely to irritate the skin, leave lots of gummy residue, or hurt ''too'' much when you take them off. A Google search for 'fashion tape', 'dress tape', or 'body tape' will reveal a multitude of suppliers and types. [[User:TenOfAllTrades|TenOfAllTrades]]([[User_talk:TenOfAllTrades|talk]]) 18:47, 7 October 2008 (UTC)


On November 8, 1969, the Zodiac mailed a card with another cryptogram consisting of 340 characters. On November 9, 1969, he mailed a seven-page letter in which he claimed that two policemen stopped and actually spoke with him three minutes after he shot Stine. Excerpts from the letter were published in the ''Chronicle'' on November 12, including the Zodiac's claim;<ref>[http://cdn.sfgate.com/chronicle/acrobat/2007/02/25/zodiac_1969_11_12_1.pdf "I've Killed Seven" The Zodiac Claims]. ''San Francisco Chronicle'', November 12, 1969.</ref><ref>[http://cdn.sfgate.com/chronicle/acrobat/2007/02/25/zodiac_1969_11_12_jump_1.pdf New Letters From Zodiac -- Boast of More Killings]. ''San Francisco Chronicle'', November 12, 1969.</ref> that same day, Don Fouke wrote a memo explaining what had happened that night. The 340 character cipher has never been decoded.<ref name="340z">{{cite web | url=http://www.dtm.ciw.edu/chris/z/340explain.html | archiveurl=http://web.archive.org/web/20080206131017/http://www.dtm.ciw.edu/chris/z/340explain.html | archivedate=2008-02-06 | title=Alphabet of the 340 Character Zodiac Cypher | first=Chris | last=McCarthy}}</ref> Many possible "solutions" have been suggested, but cannot be accepted since they do away with code making conventions.
::[[Spirit gum]]. --[[User:DaHorsesMouth|DaHorsesMouth]] ([[User talk:DaHorsesMouth|talk]]) 23:15, 7 October 2008 (UTC)


On December 20, 1969, exactly one year after the murders of David Faraday and Betty Lou Jensen, the Zodiac mailed a letter to Belli and included yet another swatch of Stine's shirt; the Zodiac claimed he wanted Belli to help him.
== Drinking Club ==


===Modesto===
This year my friends and I will be turning the legal drinking age (Uk, 18) how should I go about starting a drinking club for my friends, nothing too formal, I would just appreciate some ideas. Also advice for a relatively new drinker would be appreciated, thanks in advance, [[User:RobertsZ|RobertsZ]] ([[User talk:RobertsZ|talk]]) 16:14, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
On the night of March 22, 1970, '''Kathleen Johns''' was driving from [[San Bernardino, California|San Bernardino]] to [[Petaluma, California|Petaluma]] to visit her mother. She was seven months pregnant and had her 10-month-old daughter beside her. While heading west on Highway 132 near [[Modesto, California|Modesto]], a car behind her began honking and flashing its lights. She pulled off the road and stopped. The man in the car parked behind her, stated her right rear tire was wobbling, and offered to tighten the lugs. After finishing his work, the man drove off, and when Johns pulled forward the wheel came off the car. The man stopped, backed up, and offered to drive her to the nearest gas station for help. She and her daughter climbed into his car. They drove past several service stations but the man did not stop. For some three hours he drove them up and down the backroads around [[Tracy, California|Tracy]], and when she asked why he was not stopping, he would change the subject.<ref name="JOHNSREPORT">[http://www.zodiackiller.com/JohnsReport.html Police report]</ref>
:You could try meeting for regular tastings- choose something specific, like [[Pinot noir]] or [[Lambic]], get three or four different examples of it, and taste and compare. The atmosphere of comparing the drinks will keep people from being as likely to overindulge, while the addition of food and music will make it fun for all. -[[User:FisherQueen|FisherQueen]]<span style="font-size: smaller;"> ([[User talk:FisherQueen|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/FisherQueen|contribs]])</span> 16:22, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
:: I was going to say the same thing as FQ. Learn to appreciate the taste and craft of liquor, and not merely the buzz obtained thereof. Pick a night, like the first friday of each month, and make it a theme, like [[Whiskey]] or [[Red wine]] or something like that, provide food and other accompanyment appropriate to the theme, and learn to appreciate the drinks. You don't have to be an expert to appreciate the differences, you just have to be willing to stop and take the time... --[[User:Jayron32|Jayron32]].[[User talk:Jayron32|<small>talk</small>]].[[Special:Contributions/Jayron32|<small>contribs</small>]] 16:26, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
:::In addition, it might help to have an educative section where you learn/teach some of the words used to describe the flavours, tastes, etc. of the liquors, so that you can describe them to others when you have experienced them. Of course, if you just want to have get togethers to get drunk, it's somewhat less organisation. You might have been asking about things like affiliation and funding. It would be difficult to find some group or organisation to fund something like that, and university rules often forbid spending uni funding on alcohol, for legal reasons, so a university based club may be difficult. Good luck with the adventure. It is good to have people willing to organise new and interesting things. [[User:Steewi|Steewi]] ([[User talk:Steewi|talk]]) 02:56, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
::::When I was at uni (Warwick, in the UK) I was very involved in running our Real Ale Society. I know similar societies exist at other universities - in a couple of cases we gave advice on starting up, and once even practical assistance and loan of equipment to help them run their first beer festival. Our society always trod a line between "appreciat[ing] the taste and craft of liquor" and "get togethers to get drunk" - emphasis varied from one to the other over the five years that I was associated with the society. [[Special:Contributions/81.187.153.189|81.187.153.189]] ([[User talk:81.187.153.189|talk]]) 07:24, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
:::::I suppose it can also depend on how much you're willing to spend. It's much easier to "appreciate the taste and craft of liquor" when you're drinking something that actually tastes nice, and unfortunately that can get expensive (especially if some members of the group are in "get drunk" mode and are chucking it back at a rate of knots). [[User:FiggyBee|FiggyBee]] ([[User talk:FiggyBee|talk]]) 04:45, 9 October 2008 (UTC)


When the driver stopped at an intersection, Johns jumped out with her daughter and hid in a field. He came out to look for her, but when a truck driver spotted the scene, Johns' abductor drove off. Johns hitched a ride to the police station in [[Patterson, California|Patterson]]. As she gave her statement to the sergeant on duty, she noticed the police composite of Paul Stine's killer and recognized him as the man who abducted her and her child. Fearing the Zodiac might come back and kill them all, the sergeant had Johns wait in nearby Mil's Restaurant in the dark. When found, her car had been gutted and torched.
== Value for money. ==


There are many conflicting accounts of the Johns abduction. Most claim he threatened to kill her and her daughter while driving them around, but at least one police report disputes that.<ref name="JOHNSREPORT"/> Johns' account to [[Paul Avery]] of the ''Chronicle'' indicates her abductor left his car and searched for her in the dark with a flashlight; however, in the two reports she made to the police, she stated he did not leave the vehicle.<ref name="HIGHWAY">[http://members.aol.com/Jakewark/132.html This Is The Zodiac Speaking/Highway 132]</ref> Some accounts state Johns' vehicle was moved then torched, while others contend it was located where she'd left it.<ref name="HIGHWAY"/> The various discrepancies among Johns' accounts over the years have led many researchers to question whether she was an actual Zodiac victim.<ref>[http://www.zodiackiller.com/Johns.html Johns profile]</ref>
Hi


===Further communications===
I have never had value for money, and I don't really understand the concept.
The Zodiac continued to communicate with authorities for the remainder of 1970 via letters and greeting cards to the press. In a letter postmarked April 20, 1970, the Zodiac wrote, "My name is _____," followed by a 13-character cipher.<ref NAME="MyNameIs">[http://zodiackiller.com/MyNameIsLetter.html "My Name Is" letter]; accessed [[2007-03-08]]</ref> The Zodiac went on to state that he was not responsible for the recent bombing of a police station in San Francisco (referring to the February 18, 1970, death of Sgt. Brian McDonnell two days after the bombing at Park Station in [[Golden Gate Park]])<ref name="BLOODY">Zamorra, Jim Herron. [http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/01/27/MNG9DNQ8TQ1.DTL 1967-71 -- a bloody period for S.F. police]. [[San Francisco Chronicle]]; [[2007-01-27]]; accessed [[2007-03-07]]</ref> but added "there is more glory to killing a cop than a cid [''sic''] because a cop can shoot back." The letter included a diagram of a bomb the Zodiac claimed he would use to blow up a school bus. At the bottom of the diagram, he had written: "[[Image:Zodiac-logo crop.jpg|30px]] = 10, SFPD = 0".<ref NAME="MyNameIs"/>


Zodiac sent a greeting card postmarked April 28, 1970, to the ''Chronicle''. Written on the card was, "I hope you enjoy yourselves when I have my BLAST," followed by the Zodiac's cross circle signature. On the back of the card, the Zodiac threatened to use his bus bomb soon unless the newspaper published the full details he wrote. He also wanted to start seeing people wearing "some nice Zodiac buttons [''sic'']".<ref>[http://www.zodiackiller.com/DragonCard.html Dragon card letter]</ref>
An example of what I find confusing:
*A two hour movie will cost about £6 - this equates to 5p per minute
*Go-karting for 10 mins will cost about £10 - this equates to £1 per minute
*Indoor skydiving for 2 mins costs about £50 - this equates to £25 per minute
Each one of these could give you the same amount of joy, so how do you know if it is good value for money?


In a letter postmarked June 26, 1970, the Zodiac stated he was upset he did not see people wearing Zodiac buttons. He wrote, "I shot a man sitting in a parked car with a .38."<ref>[http://www.zodiackiller.com/ZButtonLetter.html Button letter]</ref> It has been proposed the Zodiac was referring to the murder of Sgt Richard Radetich a week earlier, on June 19. At 5:25 AM, Radetich was writing a parking ticket in his squad car when an assailant shot him in the head with a .38-caliber pistol. Radetich died 15 hours later. SFPD denies the Zodiac was involved in this murder; it remains unsolved.<ref NAME="BLOODY"/>
How do people know how much they should spend on things per week/month/year?


Included with the letter was a [[Phillips 66]] map of the San Francisco Bay Area. On the image of [[Mount Diablo]], the Zodiac had drawn a crossed-circle similar to that he had included in previous correspondence. At the top of the crossed circle, he placed a zero, and then a three, six, and a nine, so the annotation resembled a clock face. The accompanying instructions stated that the zero was “to be set to Mag. N."<ref>[http://www.zodiackiller.com/ZMap.html Zodiac map letter]</ref> The letter also included a 32-letter cipher that the killer claimed would, in conjunction with the code, lead to the location of a bomb he had buried and set to go off in the autumn. The bomb was never located. The killer had signed the note with "[[Image:Zodiac-logo crop.jpg|30px]] = 12, SFPD = 0".
Every day I get a latte for a bit over £2, someone told me this is too much to spend per day on a coffee, yet I don't know what I should spend.


In a letter to the ''Chronicle'' postmarked July 24, 1970, the Zodiac took credit for Kathleen Johns' abduction, four months after the incident.<ref>[http://www.zodiackiller.com/JohnsLetter.html Zodiac Johns letter]</ref>
Generally, I just try to spend per day, less than my parents earn per day.


In his July 26, 1970 letter, the Zodiac paraphrased a song from ''[[The Mikado]]'', adding his own lyrics about making a "little list" of the ways he planned to [[torture]] his "slaves" in "paradice." The letter was signed with a large, exaggerated cross circle symbol and a new score: "[[Image:Zodiac-logo crop.jpg|30px]] = 13, SFPD = 0".<ref>[http://www.zodiackiller.com/Mikado1.html Zodiac Mikado letter]</ref> A final note at the bottom of the letter stated, "P.S. The Mt. Diablo code concerns Radians + # inches along the radians."<ref>[http://www.zodiackiller.com/Mikado5.html Zodiac Mikado letter, cont.]</ref> In 1981, a close examination of the radian hint by Zodiac researcher [[Gareth Penn]] led to the discovery that a [[radian]] angle, when placed over the map per Zodiac's instructions, pointed to the locations of two Zodiac attacks.<ref>Rowlett, Curt, ''Labyrinth13: True Tales of the Occult, Crime & Conspiracy'', Chapter 9, ''The Z Files: Labyrinth13 Examines the Zodiac Murders'', ''The Rhyme of the Radian'', pp. 64-68. (Lulu Press, 2006). ISBN 1-4116-6083-8.</ref>
Please explain value for money.


On October 7, 1970, the ''Chronicle'' received a three-by-five inch card signed by the Zodiac with the [[Image:Zodiac-logo crop.jpg|30px]] drawn with blood. The card's message was formed by pasting words and letters from an edition of the ''Chronicle'' and thirteen holes were punched across the card. Inspectors Armstrong and Toschi agreed it was "highly probable" the card came from the Zodiac.<ref>[http://cdn.sfgate.com/chronicle/acrobat/2007/02/25/zodiac_1970_10_12_1.pdf Gilbert and Sullivan Clue to Zodiac]. ''San Francisco Chronicle'', October 12, 1970.</ref>
Thanks
[[Special:Contributions/92.2.212.124|92.2.212.124]] ([[User talk:92.2.212.124|talk]]) 19:44, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
:Well, you've got one of the key concepts right - spend less than you earn. Beyond that, value for money is very much a personal decision. If you get the same amount of joy from the 3 activities you describe, you'll want to go to the movies. If you get a real charge out of sky-diving though, you'll pay the extra money and maybe do it less often. You need to look at the "utility cost" - if I do activity X, what activities Y,Z and W will I ''not'' be able to do? I personally drink only freeze-dried coffee, because it tastes good to me and I can spend ''much'' less on coffee that way and use the saved money for other things that give me pleasure. In my case, I get more value-for-money drinking freeze-dried. If you cut out the daily latte (and have the discipline to save), you would have £730 extra after a year. That's enough to go on a holiday somewhere - so would you rather have the annual holiday or the daily latte? [[User:Franamax|Franamax]] ([[User talk:Franamax|talk]]) 20:19, 7 October 2008 (UTC)


===Riverside===
See [[subjective theory of value]]. --[[User:Trovatore|Trovatore]] ([[User talk:Trovatore|talk]]) 20:22, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
On October 27, 1970, ''Chronicle'' reporter [[Paul Avery]] (who had been covering the Zodiac case) received a [[Halloween]] card signed with a letter 'Z' and the Zodiac's cross circle symbol. Handwritten on the card was the note "Peek-a-boo, you are doomed." The threat was taken seriously and received a front page story on the ''Chronicle''.<ref name="peekaboo">Graysmith, p. 160.</ref> Soon after, Avery received an anonymous letter alerting him to the similarities between the Zodiac's activities and the unsolved murder of '''Cheri Jo Bates''', which had occurred four years earlier at the city college in [[Riverside, California|Riverside]] in the [[Greater Los Angeles Area]], more than 400 miles south of San Francisco.<ref>Graysmith, pp. 161 - 162.</ref> He reported his findings in the ''Chronicle'' on November 16, 1970.


On October 30, 1966, 18-year-old Bates spent the evening at the campus library annex until it closed at 9 p.m. Neighbors reported they heard a scream around 10:30 p.m. Bates was found dead the next morning a short distance from the library between two abandoned houses slated to be demolished for campus renovations. The wires in her [[Volkswagen]]'s [[distributor cap]] had been pulled out. She was brutally beaten and stabbed to death. A man's Timex watch with a torn wristband was found nearby.<ref NAME="BatesAccount">Graysmith, pp. 165 - 166.</ref> The watch had stopped at 12:24,<ref>[http://www.zodiackiller.com/BatesWatch2.html Photo of watch found near Bates' body.] Accessed [[July 21|21 July]] 2007.</ref> but police believe the attack occurred much earlier.<ref NAME="BatesAccount"/> Also discovered were the prints of a military-style shoe.<ref>[http://members.aol.com/Jakewark/riverside.html Riverside.] Accessed [[July 21|21 July]] 2007.</ref>
:::I would rather have both.


[[Image:Zodiac Killer - first letter.jpg|thumb|The Confession]]
:::I have always spent alot of money so people will think of me as upper-middle class (I'm actually midddle class). They wouldn't think of me as better than upper-middle because of my middle-class London accent. I still wanted to understand the concept though.
A month later, on November 29, 1966, nearly identical typewritten letters were mailed to the Riverside police and the ''Riverside Press-Enterprise''. Titled "The Confession", the author claimed responsibility for the Bates murder, providing details of the crime not released to the public, and warned that Bates "is not the first and she will not be the last."<ref>Graysmith, pp. 168 - 169.</ref>


In December 1966, a poem was discovered carved into the bottom side of a desktop in the Riverside Community College library. Titled "Sick of living/unwilling to die", the poem's language and handwriting resembled those of the Zodiac's letters. It was signed with what were assumed to be the initials "rh". Sherwood Morrill, California's top "Questioned Documents" examiner, expressed his opinion that the poem was written by the Zodiac.<ref>Graysmith, pp. 170 - 172.</ref>
:::Anyway, thanks you have been really helpfull. [[Special:Contributions/92.2.212.124|92.2.212.124]] ([[User talk:92.2.212.124|talk]]) 20:26, 7 October 2008 (UTC)


On April 30, 1967 &ndash; the six-month anniversary of Bates' murder &ndash; Bates' father Joseph, the ''Press-Enterprise'', and the Riverside police all received nearly identical letters. In handwritten scrawl, the ''Press-Enterprise'' and police copies read "Bates had to die there will be more," with a small scribble at the bottom that resembled the letter 'Z'. Joseph Bates' copy read "She had to die there will be more" without a 'Z' “signature”.<ref>[http://members.aol.com/Jakewark/riverzodiac.html Riverside and the Zodiac.] Accessed [[July 21|21 July]] 2007.</ref>
::::So you are saying that one of the values that money has for you has been buying people's good opinions? Well done for noticing this! Now you can choose whether or not, now you have noticed it, it still has value for you. (I'm not being flippant, and I hope I'm not being patronising: recognising the 'dramas' that we play is a big step in choosing how we want to live our lives). --[[User:ColinFine|ColinFine]] ([[User talk:ColinFine|talk]]) 20:44, 7 October 2008 (UTC)


On March 13, 1971, nearly four months after Paul Avery's first article on Bates, the Zodiac mailed a letter to the ''[[Los Angeles Times]]''. In it he credited the police instead of Avery for discovering his "Riverside activity, but they are only finding the easy ones, there are a hell of a lot more down there."<ref>[http://members.aol.com/Jakewark/connect.html L.A. Times 1971 Zodiac letter] Accessed [[July 21|21 July]] 2007.</ref>
Answering the core question: If you normally buy Brand X of sugar, say, but you notice that there's a generic Brand Y that costs significantly less for the same quantity, you'd be getting value for money by buying Brand Y. You might be wise to check where it was produced and how it's packed, and satisfy yourself there's no difference in quality or chemical composition - but assuming there are no issues on those scores, buying the less expensive brand would be getting value for money. Or, if you normally buy your sugar a packet at a time whenever you need it, but you notice that there's a special on, you could buy a number of packets at the low price. It won't go off like milk. That's also getting value for money. -- [[User:JackofOz|JackofOz]] ([[User talk:JackofOz|talk]]) 21:38, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
:Sugar is an interesting example because it allows you to consider other values than just what you get our of something. Is it worth paying extra for fairtrade sugar? It all comes down to how much you value the grower's well-being compared to how much you value whatever else you could buy with that extra money (due to the diminishing [[marginal utility]] of money, the value of whatever else you could buy will likely be more the poorer you are - if buying the more expensive sugar will stop you from being able to buy enough food for the week, you probably won't go for it, if it would only stop you buying one of your daily lattes, you might decide it's worth it). --[[User:Tango|Tango]] ([[User talk:Tango|talk]]) 23:27, 7 October 2008 (UTC)


The connection between Cheri Jo Bates, Riverside, and the Zodiac remains uncertain. The Riverside Police Department maintains that the Bates homicide was not committed by the Zodiac, but did concede some of the Bates letters may have been his work to falsely claim credit.<ref>Zimmerman, Janet. [http://www.pe.com/localnews/riverside/stories/PE_News_Local_D_zodiak_02.3f2cafb.html New movie 'Zodiac' includes Redlands resident's attack] ''Riverside Press-Enterprise'', March 1, 2007. Accessed March 13, 2007.</ref>
:Much depends on whether or not one of your goals is to '''accumulate''' money, say, for your old age or to buy private health insurance. As long as you understand that ''you can't spend your way to wealth'' -- driving a flashy car doesn't prove that you're rich, it demonstrates that you ''were'' rich once -- you're sufficiently balanced.
:Still, I'm left with two open issues (I work in the financial services industry, in case it's not obvious...):
:*Shouldn't you be more concerned with spending less each day than '''you''' earn, rather than your parents?
:*Do you have some reason to feel "financially insecure", such that you feel the need to '''prove''' to your peers that you can spend as much as you like?
:It wouldn't hurt to stop and re-evaluate your priorities every few years and make sure that spending it is still as important to you as it once was! --[[User:DaHorsesMouth|DaHorsesMouth]] ([[User talk:DaHorsesMouth|talk]]) 23:27, 7 October 2008 (UTC)


===Lake Tahoe===
It's not about value for money - it's about supply and demand. You can pack an enormous number of people into a theatre to watch a movie - there are multiple movie theatres in every town - the supply is huge. Most large towns (in the US at least) probably have a go-kart track - and there are a handful of karts available at any time - but the supply is WAY lower than the number of seats in a movie theatre. Indoor skydiving requires dedicated access by a couple of people only to a horribly expensive machine of which there are perhaps only a few hundred in the entire world. The supply is tiny! Now look at the demand: Flying in the indoor skydiver is the thrill of a lifetime for many people - there is a significant demand - but very little supply - so the cost is high. Zipping around a go-kart track is pretty exciting too - quite a few people would like to do it - but the supply is still fairly limited - so it's cheaper than skydiving but more costly than the movies. Seeing a movie is reasonably interesting - but you could probably see almost the same thing at home on TV or on a DVD for $15 - so it's not a hugely high demand - and the supply is vast - so the prices are way, way, low. That explains why they cost radically different amounts. I'd bet that a minute in a skydiving simulator would be WAY more worth-while than two hours in a movie theater or 20 minutes on a go-kart track - so probably people ARE getting value for money. Economics 101 says that if people aren't getting value for money from non-essential activities then they'll stop doing them and either the price will drop. If the operating expenses are too high to allow the price to drop then the company will go out of business. Since skydiving simulators and go-kart tracks exist - the prices must still be high enough to make a profit - which means that demand is at least keeping pace with supply. [[User:SteveBaker|SteveBaker]] ([[User talk:SteveBaker|talk]]) 13:22, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
On March 22, 1971, a postcard to the ''Chronicle'' addressed to "Paul Averly" &ndash; intended for Paul Avery and believed to be from the Zodiac &ndash; appeared to take credit for the disappearance of [[Donna Lass]] on September 26, 1970. Made from a [[collage]] of advertisements and magazine lettering, it featured a scene from an ad for Forest Pines [[condominium]]s and the text "[[Sierra Club]]," "Sought Victim 12," "peek through the pines," "pass Lake Tahoe areas," and "around in the snow." Zodiac's cross circle symbol was in the place of the usual return address.<ref>[http://www.zodiackiller.com/PinesCard.html Zodiac postcard]</ref>


Lass was a nurse at the [[Lake Tahoe Horizon Casino|Sahara Tahoe]] hotel and casino. She worked until about 2 a.m. on September 26, treating her last patient at 1:40 a.m., and was not seen leaving her office. The next morning, her work uniform and shoes were found in a paper bag in her office inexplicably soiled with dirt. Her car was found at her apartment complex, and her apartment was spotless.<ref name="LASS">[http://www.zodiackiller.com/mba/opzv/96.html Message board containing email from former Lake Tahoe police officer]</ref> Later that day both her employer and her landlord received phone calls from an unknown male who falsely claimed Lass had to leave town due to a family emergency.<ref>Graysmith, p. 178.</ref> The police and sheriffs' office initially treated Lass' disappearance as a missing persons investigation, suspecting she simply left on her own.<ref name="LASS"/> Lass was never found. What appeared to be a grave site was discovered near the Claire Tappan Lodge in [[Norden]], California, on Sierra Club property, but excavation yielded only a pair of sunglasses.<ref>[http://www.zodiacmurders.com/victim_lass.html Lass profile]</ref>
== Bicentenial certificates of U.S citizenship ==


No evidence has ever been uncovered to connect Donna Lass's disappearance with the Zodiac Killer.<ref name="autogenerated1" />
Greetings:


===Santa Barbara===
The subject of my request is to find out information and at the same time advise you that there is something missing from your article.
In a ''Vallejo Times-Herald'' story that appeared on November 13, 1972, Santa Barbara Sheriff's Detective Bill Baker (ret.) theorized that the murders of a young couple in [[Santa Barbara County]] may have been the work of the Zodiac.


On June 4, 1963, five and a half years before the Zodiac's first known murders on Lake Herman Road, high-school senior '''Robert Domingos''' and fiancée '''Linda Edwards''' were shot to death on a beach near [[Lompoc, California|Lompoc]], having skipped school that day for "[[Senior Skip Day|Senior Ditch Day]]". Police believed that the assailant attempted to bind the victims, but when they freed themselves attempting to flee, he shot them repeatedly in the back and chest with a .22-caliber weapon. He then placed their bodies in a small nearby shack and tried, unsuccessfully, to burn it down.<ref name="SBMURDER">[http://www.zodiackiller.com/mba/opzv/72.html Santa Barbara Sheriff Detective Bill Baker explains the case on a message board.] Accessed [[July 21|21 July]] 2007.</ref>
1). I am doing research regarding a legal matter, the issue Bicentennial; whether Bicentennial can be used as in nunc pro tunc and or retroactively?


===The final letters===
2). That your article regarding (Bicentennial) fails to indicate that the U.S congress approved Bicentennial certificates of U.S citizenship in the year 1996 and that said certificates were issued during that year by the United States District Courts.
After the "Pines" card, the Zodiac remained silent for nearly three years, after which the ''Chronicle'' received a letter from the Zodiac, postmarked January 29, 1974, praising ''[[The Exorcist]]'' as "the best saterical comidy [sic]" that he had ever seen. The letter included a snippet of verse from ''[[The Mikado]]'' and an unusual symbol at the bottom that has gone unexplained by researchers. Zodiac concluded the letter with a new score, "Me = 37, SFPD = 0".<ref>[http://www.zodiackiller.com/ExorcistLetter.html Zodiac Exorcist letter]</ref>


The ''Chronicle'' received another letter postmarked February 14, 1974, informing the editor that the initials for the [[Symbionese Liberation Army]] spelled out an [[Old Norse]] word meaning "kill".<ref>[http://cdn.sfgate.com/chronicle/acrobat/2007/02/25/zodiac_1976_08_26_1.pdf Tips Still Pursue Multiple Slayer]. ''San Francisco Chronicle'', August 26, 1976.</ref><ref>[http://members.aol.com/Jakewark/SLA.html SLA Letter]</ref> However, the handwriting was not authenticated as the Zodiac's.
3). Whether a Bicentennial Certificate of Citizenship has some special quality in a common and legal application and value.


Another letter by the ''Chronicle'', postmarked May 8, 1974, featured a complaint that the movie ''[[Badlands (film)|Badlands]]'' was "murder-glorification" and asked the paper to cut its advertisements. Signed only "A citizen", the handwriting, tone, and surface irony are all similar to prior Zodiac communications.<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.zodiackiller.com/CitizenLetter.html |title= Citizen Letter |archiveurl=http://web.archive.org/web/20070615151031/http://www.zodiackiller.com/CitizenLetter.html |archivedate=2007-06-15}}</ref>
I respectfully submit that this is an important issue, because people have the right to known about that information.


The ''Chronicle'' received an anonymous letter postmarked July 8, 1974, complaining about one of its columnists, Marco Spinelli. The letter was signed "the Red Phantom (red with rage)". The Zodiac's authorship of this letter is debated.<ref>[http://www.zodiackiller.com/RedPhantomLetter.html Red Phantom letter]</ref>
If my request has been helpful please be so kind as to inform me. Likewise, if you are able to help me in my quest for justice please do so and in form me accordingly.


Another four years passed without communication (purported or verified) from the Zodiac. A letter of April 24, 1978, was initially deemed authentic, but was declared by three other experts to be a hoax less than three months later. In recent years, however, the letter has been deemed in some quarters as authentic. Toschi, the SFPD homicide detective who had been on the case since the Stine murder, was thought to have forged the letter, since author [[Armistead Maupin]] thought it similar to "fan mail" he received in 1976 that he believed was authored by Toschi. While he admitted writing the fan mail, Toschi denied forging the Zodiac letter and was eventually cleared of any charges. The authenticity of the letter remains in question.
Thank you for your time and consideration as to in this matter,


On March 3, 2007, it was reported that an [[American Greetings]] [[Christmas card]] sent to the ''Chronicle'' postmarked 1990 in [[Eureka, California|Eureka]] had been recently discovered in their photo files by editorial assistant Daniel King.<ref>Williams, Lance. [http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/03/03/MNG37OETI71.DTL&hw=zodiac+christmas+card&sn=001&sc=1000 Zodiac's written clues fascinate document expert]. [[San Francisco Chronicle]], March 3, 2007. Accessed March 15, 2007.</ref> Inside the envelope with the card was a photocopy of two [[United States Post Office|U.S. Postal]] keys on a magnet keychain. The handwriting on the envelope resembles Zodiac's print, but was declared inauthentic by forensic document examiner Lloyd Cunningham. Not all Zodiac experts, however, agree with Cunningham's analysis.<ref>Freedman, Rich. [http://www.timesheraldonline.com/todaysnews/ci_5355609~Zodiac:_Did_killer_send_card_in_1990? Zodiac: Did killer send card in 1990?]; The Vallejo Times Herald, March 3, 2007. Accessed March 16, 2007.</ref> There is no return address on the envelope nor is his crossed-circle signature to be found. The card itself is unmarked.<ref>[http://www.zodiackiller.com/images/eurekaenvelopelarge.jpg Christmas card envelope]; [http://www.zodiackiller.com/images/eurekacard1large.jpg Christmas card front]; [http://www.zodiackiller.com/images/eurekacard2large.jpg Christmas card interior]; [http://www.zodiackiller.com/images/xerox.jpg Photocopy of Christmas card keys and pencil]. Accessed March 15, 2007.</ref> The ''Chronicle'' turned over all the material to the Vallejo Police Department for further analysis.
Respectfully Submitted, BY: Francesco Franco Zambuto <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/79.23.167.198|79.23.167.198]] ([[User talk:79.23.167.198|talk]]) 20:52, 7 October 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->


== Current status ==
:I do not know which article you are referring to (you have not linked to one, and a search for 'bicentennial certificate of citizenship' gives no relevant results), but if you think an article can be improved, please either edit it yourself (if you can cite reliable sources for the information you are adding), or raise the issue on the article's Talk page.
The last SFPD investigators of the case were Homicide Detail Inspectors Michael N. Maloney and Kelly Carroll. They were the first to submit [[DNA]] evidence from Zodiac's letters for analysis, which resulted in a partial genetic profile. DNA testing seems to have conclusively ruled out their lead suspect, [[Arthur Leigh Allen]].<ref>Weiss, Mike; [http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2002/10/15/MN47255.DTL&hw=zodiac+case+dna&sn=006&sc=687 DNA seems to clear only Zodiac suspect]; [[San Francisco Chronicle]]; [[2002-10-12]]; accessed [[2007-02-28]]</ref>
:As to the other part of your question, you begin by asking for information, but later refer to your 'quest for justice'. Please be aware that though we on the Reference Desks can offer information, and point you at sources, we '''cannot give legal advice'''. (I am not in the US, so I have no idea about this subject anyway). --[[User:ColinFine|ColinFine]] ([[User talk:ColinFine|talk]]) 23:35, 7 October 2008 (UTC)


The SFPD marked the case "inactive" in April 2004, citing caseload pressure and resource demands.<ref>Goodyear, Charlie. [http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/04/07/MNG8N61MGI1.DTL Files shut on Zodiac's deadly trail]; [[San Francisco Chronicle]]; [2004-4-7]]; accessed [[2008-9-18]]</ref> They reopened the case some time before March 2007 and returned evidence to Vallejo police for additional DNA testing, where the case has remained open.<ref NAME="REOPENED">Goldman-Hall, Jason; [http://www.examiner.com/a-594611~Police_still_keep_Zodiac_Killer_s_case_open.html Police still keep Zodiac Killer's case open]; [[San Francisco Examiner]]; [[2007-03-01]]; accessed [[2008-03-22]]</ref><ref name="ref1">[http://cbs13.com/crime/zodiac.killer.kaufman.2.805799.html Zodiac Killer's Identity and Weapon Uncovered? (CBS13 News)] [[CBS13 News Sacramento]]; [[2008-08-28]]; accessed [[2008-09-23]]</ref>
::I would say, however, that in the United States, if you're a citizen, you're a citizen. You may have been born here (in which case you can become president), you may have been naturalized (in which case the document is a certificate of naturalization), or you may have acquired citizenship through a process other than naturalization (e.g., the minor immigrant child of immigrant parents who become naturalized derives citizenship through those parents), in which case you have a certificate of citizenship. Other that personal pride, there is no special status to having become a citizen at one time vis-a-vis another, any more than there is by having your oath of citizenship taken by a justice of the Supreme Court rather than an attorney at the former Immigration and Naturalization Service. --- [[User:OtherDave|OtherDave]] ([[User talk:OtherDave|talk]]) 01:36, 8 October 2008 (UTC)


The Vallejo Police Department [[website]] maintains a link for providing Zodiac crime tips.<ref>[http://www.ci.vallejo.ca.us/GovSite/default.asp?serviceID1=79 City of Vallejo - Police]; accessed [[2008-06-15]]</ref> The case is also open in Napa County<ref NAME="REOPENED"/> and Riverside.<ref NAME="RIV-REOPENED">Hill, Lisa O'Neill; [http://www.zodiackiller.com/PressEnterpriseArticle.html Sleuths keep mysterious death alive (reprint)]; [[Riverside Press-Enterprise]]; [[2002-05-13]]; accessed [[2008-03-22]]</ref>
:Why would Congress approve "Bicentennial certificates of U.S citizenship in the year 1996"? The U.S. bicentennial was ''1976''. —[[User:D Monack|D. Monack]] [[User talk:D Monack|<sup>''talk''</sup>]] 21:16, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
:: I don't suppose Congress is immune to typos. :P —[[User:Tamfang|Tamfang]] ([[User talk:Tamfang|talk]]) 17:30, 9 October 2008 (UTC)


==Arthur Leigh Allen==
== hearing standards for various jobs ==
{{main|Arthur Leigh Allen}}
Hello everyone,
Arthur Leigh Allen was the [[suspect|prime suspect]] in the Zodiac murders and the only suspect served search warrants by police.<ref>[http://members.aol.com/Jakewark/allen.html The Case Against Arthur Leigh Allen]</ref><ref>Voight, Tom, [http://www.zodiackiller.com/AllenFile.html The Arthur Leigh Allen File]; 2003; accessed on [[2007-03-01]]</ref> He was never charged with any Zodiac-related crime, and he continually denied any connection to the murders.<ref>[http://www.se7en-x.com/zodiac/bio.htm Zodiac case overview by Clint Vander Klok]; accessed on [[2007-03-01]]</ref><ref>[http://www.olesin.50megs.com/zodiac/allen.htm Suspect profile of Arthur Leigh Allen]; accessed on [[2007-03-01]]</ref> He died in 1992 from a heart attack. In 2002, DNA samples taken from saliva on the Zodiac's stamps and envelopes were compared with Arthur Leigh Allen's DNA, and that of a former close friend who first fingered him as the Zodiac killer. Neither matched, and Allen has been all but cleared by law enforcement.<ref>[http://www.zodiackiller.com/AllenFile.html Zodiac Killer Enthusist site] cited on [http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/notorious/zodiac/38.html trutv].</ref>


==The Zodiac Killer in popular culture==
I’m not asking for medical advice … I’m not asking for medical advice. Now that we’ve got that out of the way:


{{main|The Zodiac Killer in popular culture}}
I’m seeking a career in [[law enforcement]]. With the agency I’ve applied for, I’ve completed all of the prerequisite testing: [[background investigation]], [[polygraph]] test, written exams, [[physical fitness]] test, [[interview]], etc. The last and final stage is the medical/physical exam.


The Zodiac Killer's crimes, letters and cryptograms to police and newspapers inspired many movies, novels, television productions and more.
I have slight [[conductive hearing loss]] in my left ear, and as a result I do not meet the hearing standards per the Department’s policy.


== References ==
I’m trying to find various hearing employment standards for other organizations (i.e. LE agencies, DOT, etc, etc, etc) to see if I meet those standards. For example, per the US Military’s enlistment standards (US Army Publication 40-501), I DO meet the hearing standards for military service. My goal is to present all of the jobs that my hearing qualifies me for to the agency I’m applying with.
{{Reflist|3}}


== Further reading ==
For example, I do meet the hearing enlistment standards for the US military, so I would say something like “the hearing in my left ear is good enough for the US military, can we use the military enlistment standard instead of your agency’s standard?”
* Beeman, William (writing as “Dr. Oscar Henry Jigglelance”) ''Jack the Zodiac'' Parts I & II (White Lite Publishing, Vallejo, CA, 1990).
* Davis, Howard, ''The Zodiac/Manson Connection'' (Pen Power Publications, Costa Mesa, CA, March 1997). ISBN 0-9629-0842-8.
* [[Robert Graysmith|Graysmith, Robert]], ''Zodiac'' (Berkeley; reissue edition, January 2007). ISBN 0-4252-1218-1.
* [[Robert Graysmith|Graysmith, Robert]], : The Identity of America's Most Elusive Serial Killer'' (Berkeley; reissue edition, January 2007). ISBN 0-4252-1273-4.
* Kelleher, Michael D. and Van Nuys, David, ''“This is the Zodiac Speaking”: Into the Mind of a Serial Killer'' (Praeger Publishers, Westport, CT, January 2002). ISBN 0-2759-7338-7.
* Oswell, Douglas and Rusconi, Michael, ''Dr. Zodiac: The Unabomber-Zodiac Connection'' (CD-ROM; Carfax Publishing, Dover, DE, 1998).
* [[Gareth Penn|Penn, Gareth]] (writing under the pseudonym "George Oakes") ''Portrait of the Artist as a Mass Murderer'', ''California Magazine'' November 1981, pp. 111-114, 166-170.
* [[Gareth Penn|Penn, Gareth]], ''Times 17: The Amazing Story of the Zodiac Murders in California and Massachusetts, 1966-1981'' (The Foxglove Press, CA, April 1987). ISBN 0-9618-4940-1.
* [[Gareth Penn|Penn, Gareth]], ''The Second Power: A Mathematical Analysis of the Letters Attributed to the Zodiac Murderer and Supplement to Times 17'' (self-published booklet 1999).
* Rasmussen, William T., ''Corroborating Evidence II'' (Sunstone Press, 2006). ISBN 0-86534-536-8.
* Rowlett, Curt, ''Labyrinth13: True Tales of the Occult, Crime & Conspiracy'' Chapter 9, ''The Z Files: Labyrinth13 Examines the Zodiac Murders'' (Lulu Press, 2006). ISBN 1-4116-6083-8.
* Rowlett, Curt, ''Decoding the Zodiac Killer'', Issue 43, ''[[Paranoia (magazine)]]'', Winter 2007, pp. 48-52.


== External links ==
The more times I can say this sentence with X organization, I feel the greater likelihood that I’ll get some sort of waver for my left ear.
{{wikisource|Zodiac Killer letters}}
<!-- Please see Talk archives about what is allowed and what is not allowed in the External links section -->
* [http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/02/25/PKGRJN85FJ1.DTL Zodiac called a "clumsy criminal"] - Original ''San Francisco Chronicle'' article from October 18, 1969 where Zodiac's methods and psychology are questioned by law enforcement.
* [http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&om=1&msid=110578061651284892934.00000111d3cf57de2c360&msa=0&ll=38.201497,-122.203674&spn=1.651111,2.271423&z=9 "Zodiac Murder Map"] - Google Map plotting definite and possible Zodiac attacks (with details).
* [http://napasentinel.com/ArticleTemplate.php?id=240&pid=1 Napa Sentinel. Harry V. Martin, publisher. "Zodiac: The Conclusion"] - An editorial argument that the Zodiac Killer was a hoax.


[[Category:American serial killers]]
Any suggestions?
[[Category:Unidentified serial killers]]
[[Category:Unsolved murders]]
[[Category:1960s in the United States]]
[[Category:1970s in the United States]]
[[Category:Vallejo, California]]
[[Category:Riverside, California]]
[[Category:Napa County, California]]
[[Category:Possibly living people]]
[[Category:Uncracked codes and ciphers]]


[[ca:Zodiac (assassí)]]
Thanks!
[[cs:Zodiac Killer]]
[[User:Rangermike|Rangermike]] ([[User talk:Rangermike|talk]]) 21:04, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
[[da:Zodiac Killer]]

[[de:Zodiac-Killer]]

[[es:Asesino del Zodiaco]]
:A letter on a law firm's letterhead with the word "discrimination" on it can do wonders if the agency doesn't have it's own full-time legal defense. :) [[Special:Contributions/24.68.54.155|24.68.54.155]] ([[User talk:24.68.54.155|talk]]) 04:44, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
[[fr:Tueur du Zodiaque]]

[[ko:조디악 킬러]]
::A rambling story before I get to the point. Several years ago I took an 8 week course and one of the requirements was eyesight and in particular [[Color blindness]]. One of the other participants was red/green colour blind but they allowed him to take the training if by the end he could find another doctor to certify that he wasn't colour blind. He was able to do that but failed anyway. His color blindness was such that he couldn't tell the difference between the red/green lights and kept pressing the wrong buttons.
[[it:Killer dello Zodiaco]]

[[la:Zodiacus occisor]]
::The point here being, that you may need to look at the training involved and decide if there is any part of it based on hearing that you might not be able to pass. [[User:CambridgeBayWeather|CambridgeBayWeather]] [[User_talk:CambridgeBayWeather|Have a gorilla]] 05:27, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
[[he:זודיאק (רוצח)]]

[[hu:Zodiákus gyilkos]]
:::Aren't those tests for "Uncorrected" hearing loss? Meaning that if you can get a hearing aid that fixes the problem, you can do the test while wearing the hearing aid? If it's only a slight loss - it should be easily correctable. [[User:SteveBaker|SteveBaker]] ([[User talk:SteveBaker|talk]]) 13:10, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
[[nl:Zodiac Killer]]
::::You mean "corrected"? Your hearing, when corrected, has to be above a certain level. I know eye tests for jobs are usually corrected vision, meaning you can wear your glasses or contact lenses (fighter pilot may be an exception). --[[User:Tango|Tango]] ([[User talk:Tango|talk]]) 18:14, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
[[ja:ゾディアック (連続殺人犯)]]

[[pl:Zodiak (osoba)]]
= October 8 =
[[pt:Assassino do Zodíaco]]

[[ru:Зодиак (убийца)]]
== control of the house and senate for the past 30 years ==
[[sk:Zodiac Killer]]

[[sr:Zodijak (serijski ubica)]]
I have been trying to find out which major parties have controlled the house and senate for the past 30 years by year or election period. I've tried several searches but have bben unsucessful. Can someone help me by telling me how to phrse the research question? Or direct me to a source who already has the data. Thanks much
[[fi:Zodiac Killer]]

[[sv:Zodiac Killer]]
John Spitzley <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Johnspitzley|Johnspitzley]] ([[User talk:Johnspitzley|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Johnspitzley|contribs]]) 00:41, 8 October 2008 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
[[zh:黃道十二宮殺手]]
:We have an article on each congress: see the [[List of United States Congresses]]. From there, link to each of the most recent 15 articles, each of which has a table at the bottom for the house and the senate. -[[User:Arch dude|Arch dude]] ([[User talk:Arch dude|talk]]) 00:55, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
::There was an awesome Table/List that showed this. I remember commenting on its AfD. If it wasn't deleted I might be able to find it. [[User:Plasticup|<b><font color="#0080FF">Plasticup</font></b>]] [[User_Talk:Plasticup |<font color="#2A8E82"><sup><small>T</small></sup></font>]]/[[Special:Contributions/Plasticup|<font color="#2A8E82"><small>C</small></font>]] 05:11, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
:::Could it be [[Party divisions of United States Congresses|this one]]? [[User:Fribbler|Fribbler]] ([[User talk:Fribbler|talk]]) 16:28, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

== Knowledge of U.S. presidential race in foreign countries ==

I am curious what kind of information is well known in other countries regarding the U.S. presidential race. Are Barack Obama and John McCain household names where you live? Are they barely a blip? Are you saying, "who?" Have any of the U.S. presidential debates been broadcast on your television stations? I'd be curious about both English and non-English speaking nations.--[[User:Fuhghettaboutit|Fuhghettaboutit]] ([[User talk:Fuhghettaboutit|talk]]) 02:36, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

:UK. The debates are on TV here, but in the wee small hours with little uptake. For those interested in politics, McCain & Obama & Palin are well known; they feature regularly enough on mainstream news, so there should be high name recognition even amongst those not interested in politics. Biden less well known, I think. --[[User:Tagishsimon|Tagishsimon]] [[User_talk:Tagishsimon|(talk)]] 02:40, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

:U.S. presidential campaigns are always big news in Australia, and everyone knows about Obama, McCain and Hillary Clinton. When Obama beat Clinton for the Democrat candidacy, it was BIG front-page headlines ("The Winner!!" or similar - at least as prominent as the winner of our own federal elections). The recent debates have interrupted scheduled TV programming; the Obama-McCain debate was shown on 2 channels simultaneously (ABC and SBS). This irked me, not because we shouldn't see such debates, but because I was planning to record a program of special interest to me, and it was shoved off without a word of explanation. During the period of the Obama-Clinton contest, there was relatively little mention of McCain at all, and the impression one might have got was that the Democrat contest was the only one that mattered, almost as if the winner would automatically become president. That's since been rectified by the re-emergence of McCain onto the front pages. Sarah Palin has also received a lot of publicity. Joe Biden cracks relatively little mention, but he's still had enough publicity for reasonably well-read people to know who he is. -- [[User:JackofOz|JackofOz]] ([[User talk:JackofOz|talk]]) 02:54, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

::Canada is much like Jack's description of Oz, except worse. Here in the east, we get the direct feed of the US channels out of Buffalo, including Fox, and CNN. (In the west, it's feed from Seattle.) Canada's national election is on October 14th, just a week away, and I would bet there is more coverage on our TVs of the US one than of our own. [[User:Bielle|៛ Bielle]] ([[User talk:Bielle|talk]]) 03:05, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
:::Same thing in the west, though since I am somewhat of an Americanophile, I don't mind so much. That being said, almost every Canadian I know has more knowledge of the American system, and even the elected officials in nearby states, than they do of their own area. For example, I cannot name more than a couple members of the city council for the small town I live in, yet I know the name of the Governor of Washington State, and even her primary rival in the upcoming election. That's the power of TV...and I barely watch 5 hours a week. --<span style="background: #CCEECC;">[[User:Kickstart70|Kickstart70]]</span>-<span style="background: #CCCCEE;">[[User talk:Kickstart70|T]]</span>-<span style="background: #EECCEE;">[[Special:Contributions/Kickstart70|C]]</span> 03:15, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
:::::Wow, impressive. The last Washington gov I can name without looking it up is [[Dixy Lee Ray]], and I live on the West Coast, even. --[[User:Trovatore|Trovatore]] ([[User talk:Trovatore|talk]]) 07:18, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
::::In Bermuda, Obama and McCain are eclipsing our own politicians. Most people favor Obama, even though he has come out and blasted Bermuda's status as a "tax haven" (which is a silly and over-played term, by the way) [[User:Plasticup|<b><font color="#0080FF">Plasticup</font></b>]] [[User_Talk:Plasticup |<font color="#2A8E82"><sup><small>T</small></sup></font>]]/[[Special:Contributions/Plasticup|<font color="#2A8E82"><small>C</small></font>]] 03:24, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
:::This is all very interesting, especially how strong the coverage is in Australia. Regarding little mention of McCain during the Clinton-Obama kerfuffle, it was to a large extent the same in the U.S. I'm still curious about other countries but of course given Wikipedia demographics, you lot are not unexpected:-) and after an edit conflict, welcome Bermuda!--[[User:Fuhghettaboutit|Fuhghettaboutit]] ([[User talk:Fuhghettaboutit|talk]]) 03:27, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

There is high interest in Obama throughout East Africa. The [[Daily Nation]], the widely read by everyone daily in urban Kenya, runs an article on the US election every day. In the Middle East he is a household name. There is much interest in his Muslim ancestry. [[User:Lotsofissues|Lotsofissues]] ([[User talk:Lotsofissues|talk]]) 04:17, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

: High interest here (New Zealand) also, even with our own governmental election in November. Current NZ opinion for preferred President is about Obama 70%, McCain 30%... and that's a poll from our [[New_Zealand_Herald|main conservative daily]]. <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Boomshanka|Boomshanka]] ([[User talk:Boomshanka|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Boomshanka|contribs]]) 04:39, 8 October 2008 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

::In this part of Canada interest in the US election is about on the level of our current [[Nunavut general election, 2008|territorial election]] both of which are lower than that of the Canadian election. And interest in the Canadian election is very low with almost no posters up and very little in the way of direct mailings. Both election. People are well informed about the US election, it's almost impossible not to be, but just don't care. Of course interest in all the elections might be higher if we didn't have to worry about a lack of heat or power in the next couple of days. [[User:CambridgeBayWeather|CambridgeBayWeather]] [[User_talk:CambridgeBayWeather|Have a gorilla]] 10:50, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

:South Africa: Obama and McCain are household names [[WP:OR|in my experience]]. For those who are interested, the US presidential race is quite well known. [[Special:Contributions/Zain Ebrahim111|Zain Ebrahim]] ([[User talk:Zain Ebrahim111|talk]]) 11:14, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

::Sweden: Household names - as is Sarah Palin, and I think most people also know Joe Biden. Almost every day there is an article about the election in our biggest morning newspaper - about the debate between Palin and Biden, the one between McCain and Obama, today something about Obama's progress in Ohio due to the economical crisis. These last weeks there have been lots of articles about Palin: Palin knowing Russia because it's her neighbour, Palin accusing Obama for having terrorist friends, Palin being mocked and quoted on NBC; but also lots of articles comparing Obama and McCain. Little sister is watching you all over there! [[User:Lova Falk|Lova Falk]] ([[User talk:Lova Falk|talk]]) 12:56, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

I live in the UK and am just one of those people who keep up with the news because I like to know what's going on <small>(and crush on Clinton *blush*)</small>. I watch/listen to/read the BBC's various outlets, as well as [[The Economist]]. From what I've heard, Obama is certainly the more popular candidate and appears to be a breath of fresh air, although low opinion of McCain may stem from "everyone's" dislike of Bush/Cheney. -- <sub>[[User:Escape Artist Swyer|Escape Artist Swyer]]</sub> <sup>[[User talk:Escape Artist Swyer|Talk]]</sup> <sub>[[Special:Contributions/Escape Artist Swyer|Contributions]]</sub> 18:54, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

:When you say you have a <small>crush on Clinton</small>, are you talking about Bill, Hillary, or Chelsea? —[[User:D Monack|D. Monack]] [[User talk:D Monack|<sup>''talk''</sup>]] 21:22, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

:Everyone's recent dislike of Bush/Cheney is a sore spot for me. I am not at all impressed that six years after taking office people finally woke up, when it was evident 8 years ago that he was singularly unsuited to run anything, much less a country.--[[User:Fuhghettaboutit|Fuhghettaboutit]] ([[User talk:Fuhghettaboutit|talk]]) 20:56, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

::Well, don't kid yourself too strongly. It's not like the US populace has actually begun to embrace anything different. The chief reason McCain is doing poorly is the economy, plain and simple. US voters are still as myopic and uninformed as always, but when the economy crashes, they actually start to care about how poorly run things are. The second this particular crisis stops they'll go back to their "don't take mah guns!" approach to national politics. (At least, that's how it looks from my, US point of view.) --[[Special:Contributions/98.217.8.46|98.217.8.46]] ([[User talk:98.217.8.46|talk]]) 03:20, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

:Thanks to all who have replied from me as well — this has been quite informative to this particular American. I knew that this election in particular was attracting a lot of foreign attention but I didn't realize it was quite that high. It's hard for me to imagine my fellow Americans caring as much about election elsewhere—unless you religiously read the New York Times you'd never know who was the Prime Minister of the UK or the President of France, for example, and they're probably the best-known foreign leaders over here other than the guy with the hat we propped up in Afghanistan. --[[Special:Contributions/98.217.8.46|98.217.8.46]] ([[User talk:98.217.8.46|talk]]) 03:20, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
::What about the old man in Cuba, don't you think Americans know at least his surname? [[User:Lova Falk|Lova Falk]] ([[User talk:Lova Falk|talk]]) 08:15, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
:::When you say "the old man", do you mean him, or his brother? --[[User:Trovatore|Trovatore]] ([[User talk:Trovatore|talk]]) 08:25, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
::::I mean the president. [[User:Lova Falk|Lova Falk]] ([[User talk:Lova Falk|talk]]) 15:02, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
:::::That would be [[Raúl Castro|Raúl]], then... [[User:FiggyBee|FiggyBee]] ([[User talk:FiggyBee|talk]]) 15:11, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
::::::I'm sure there are people who make the perfectly correct statement "Cuba is run by Castro", without realising they're now thinking of the wrong brother. -- [[User:JackofOz|JackofOz]] ([[User talk:JackofOz|talk]]) 19:16, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

::I can understand not knowing much about the incredibly lack-lustre [[Gordon Brown]], who adds excitement to a room by leaving it, but are you telling us that Americans generally wouldn't have recognised the name [[Tony Blair]] or known what job he had? -- [[User:JackofOz|JackofOz]] ([[User talk:JackofOz|talk]]) 08:33, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
:::Americans in General? I'd guess that about a quarter of the adult population knows exactly who Tony Blair is. I'd also guess that half of the three quarters who don't can't name the continents and couldn't tell you who fought who in World War II or when it took place if you held a gun to their heads.--[[User:Fuhghettaboutit|Fuhghettaboutit]] ([[User talk:Fuhghettaboutit|talk]]) 12:59, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
::::WWII was the one where John Wayne beat the Japanese, wasn't it? [[User:FiggyBee|FiggyBee]] ([[User talk:FiggyBee|talk]]) 14:17, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

:I just wanted to mention that [[WNYC]] has a small segment on today's episode of the [[Leonard Lopate]] show on the upcoming Canadian elections [http://www.wnyc.org/shows/lopate/episodes/2008/10/09/ here]. --[[User:Blue387|Blue387]] ([[User talk:Blue387|talk]]) 21:56, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

== how do tv remotes work? ==

[[remote control]] isnt any help. does the infrared emitter emit a different frequency of light for every function? or how does that work <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/173.8.100.50|173.8.100.50]] ([[User talk:173.8.100.50|talk]]) 02:57, 8 October 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:I got this from that [[remote control#Usage|page]] - "The infrared diode modulates at a speed corresponding to a particular function. When seen through a video camera, the diode appears to illuminate purple light." Twas on the caption of an image . [[User:Boomshanka|Boomshanka]] ([[User talk:Boomshanka|talk]]) 04:09, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
::Modern TV remotes use infrared signals, although other methods were used decades ago. The same frequency of infrared is emitted, but with different pulse patterns for different functions. The infrared beam is modulated at a high frequency (to make it possible for the receiver to tell control signals from the IR emitted by the sun or other light sources) and then the control signals are sent in a binary code, wherein it blinks on and off to represent a binary number with ones and zeros to tell the TV what to do. There is a general explanation at [[Remote control]] and a more detailed technical explanation at [http://www2.arrl.org/news/features/2004/03/30/1/]. [[User:Edison|Edison]] ([[User talk:Edison|talk]]) 04:13, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Another question, similarly related, i guess: My cable TV remote control causes the lights on my DVD player to flicker, although it doesn't really do anything but flicker. Why would it do that, when the cable remote is being used for an entirely different device, let alone different functions? <font family="Arial">[[User:NurseryRhyme|<span style="color:dark blue">Little Red Riding Hood</span>]]''[[User talk:NurseryRhyme|<span style="color:dark blue">talk</span>]]''</font> 00:17, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

:The remote sends binary numbers as rapid on/off flashes of IR light (think of it like Morse code - although it isn't exactly like that) - a different number for each button press. Some buttons (the volume control most noticably) send the same number over and over for as long as you hold the button down - others send one number when you press the button - and not again until you release it and press it again. Those numbers are designed to be different for different kinds of device in order that each device only responds to it's own remote. However, there are a bazillion devices out there and the manufacturers are all competitors - so they don't talk to each other much. It should come as no surprise that occasionally, some codes will overlap. Some devices are designed to flash lights just to let you know that they received an IR message - even if they subsequently decide to ignore it because it's intended to control something else. That's probably what's happening with your DVD. [[User:SteveBaker|SteveBaker]] ([[User talk:SteveBaker|talk]]) 01:34, 9 October 2008 (UTC)


:In general, remote control infrared emitters are either rapidly blinking or off. It's like Morse code, but the "on" state is very rapidly blinking light and the "off" state is no light. The remote blinking rate is set to a very specific rate. The infrared receiver in the TV is set up to only pay attention to infrared signals that blink at the exact same rate. The different buttons on the remote send different patterns of blinking and off states of the infrared light.

:Look at the pictures on this webpage that explain one type of remote control's blinking pattern: [http://www.sbprojects.com/knowledge/ir/sirc.htm Sony SIRC Protocol]. In the first picture, each line represents one blink. (The blink rate for this remote is 40,000 times a second or 40 kHz.) The first picture shows how a "1" and "0" are represented for this remote, then further down the page these "bits" are combined to create codes for the various functions.

:So different brands of devices can vary their remote control signals in two major ways: By using different blinking rates, and by using different patterns of blinking and off states for the different functions.

:Little Red Riding Hood: My guess is your TV and DVD remotes use the same blink rate, but incompatible patterns of blinking and off states. The DVD's light might be triggered by the correct blink rate, but the DVD can't understand the TV remote's patterns.

:173.8.100.50 and Boomshanka: Remote control infrared emitters only emit one infrared wavelength of light. The sensors in video cameras make infrared light look purple on the screen. "Modulating" in this case means turning the rapidly blinking light on and off in a pattern. I only know about "Morse code" or digital on/off patterns. But the section [[Remote_control#Technique]] suggests some remotes use different speeds of on/off patterns. (In effect, slowly blinking (at different speeds) the rapidly blinking signal.) --[[User:Bavi H|Bavi H]] ([[User talk:Bavi H|talk]]) 05:56, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

== The power of groups ==

Is there a concept, or even an equation (which does not appear to be [[Nash equilibrium]]) which adequately explains the following concept?

<blockquote>Any individual that supports the goals of a group, the goals of the other individuals within that group, as well as the goals that that individual wishes to meet....will almost always beat out the goals of the self-serving individual who does not align himself with a cohesive group. Possible non-ideal examples: Mafia, Old Boys Network, investment clubs, etc.</blockquote>

Thanks in advance! --<span style="background: #CCEECC;">[[User:Kickstart70|Kickstart70]]</span>-<span style="background: #CCCCEE;">[[User talk:Kickstart70|T]]</span>-<span style="background: #EECCEE;">[[Special:Contributions/Kickstart70|C]]</span> 03:10, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

:Why are you making a distinction between "the goals of a group" and "the goals of the other individuals within that group"? There should be no distinction between those two. Once you remove that false dichotomy I think the [[Nash equilibrium]] fits perfectly. I ''think''. [[User:Plasticup|<b><font color="#0080FF">Plasticup</font></b>]] [[User_Talk:Plasticup |<font color="#2A8E82"><sup><small>T</small></sup></font>]]/[[Special:Contributions/Plasticup|<font color="#2A8E82"><small>C</small></font>]] 03:22, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
::Well, some goals of the individual may not be the same as the group. In fact, some of those goals may be exclusively individual, but the group gains a benefit, or the goals may even harm the group. For example, the individual might have a goal to have a facy car. This might help the group in that it raises their potential for outside investment, based on the appearance of success. However, the fancy car may also detract some that, with potential investors believing the members of the group spend money frivolously. Also, while the individual and group may share goals, and the individual in the group intends to support the goals of the group, it's vital that he also supports the goals of the other individuals within that group to be a success. Maybe N.e. does cover what I need, but the article is not clear on the kind of definition I am supposing. In any case, some better examples to explain to others would be helpful if you or anyone can provide. FWIW, I'm trying to explain to my coworkers how working as a team with group goals in mind and being supportive of each other gains us more than the current self-serving (and somewhat backstabbing and overwhelmingly negative) lack of mutual or group support. --<span style="background: #CCEECC;">[[User:Kickstart70|Kickstart70]]</span>-<span style="background: #CCCCEE;">[[User talk:Kickstart70|T]]</span>-<span style="background: #EECCEE;">[[Special:Contributions/Kickstart70|C]]</span> 05:09, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

:Similar ideas are dealt with in Robert Axelrod's ''The evolution of Cooperation'' and Brian Skyrms' ''Evolution of the Social Contract''. They both try to explain how people can be altruistic (or follow group goals) and survive when there are people who are primarily self-interested and will free load off the effort of group-minded individuals.--[[User:Droptone|droptone]] ([[User talk:Droptone|talk]]) 11:40, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

== Why didn't Iceland join the Eurozone? ==

Why didn't they do so long ago?

Whatever their reasons, it now looks like a bad decision in hindsight? [[User:Lotsofissues|Lotsofissues]] ([[User talk:Lotsofissues|talk]]) 04:46, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

:The pros and cons of joining are manifold. There are those who fear losing national independence, or losing power to 'Brussels' (where most of the EU headquarters seem to be situated). Those in favour believe in the increase strength of the union and how it can compete more effectively with the US and other major nations, how it can provide a form of cross-national progressive funding, helping the strong nations provide a stable basis for the developing (or less stable) nations. As for hindsight - it's a wonderful thing, though the current economic climate isn't exactly providing the rosiest of outlooks for Eurozone countries - Germany and Holland have been making recent headlines with some of their rescue-plans. I doubt a significant number of those who previously opposed joining the single-currency would be swayed by the current turmoil in their nation - though it may give the supports of it a chance to say "we told you so" and feel all smug. [[Special:Contributions/194.221.133.226|194.221.133.226]] ([[User talk:194.221.133.226|talk]]) 09:07, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

It should be remembered that Iceland is not a member of the [[European Union]], and therefore joining the eurozone is a much more complicated issue than for a member state. There's a question of whether Iceland would even be eligible to join if it wanted to. --[[User:Xuxl|Xuxl]] ([[User talk:Xuxl|talk]]) 15:53, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

:See also [[Optimum currency area]]. When setting the interest rate, the [[ECB]] takes into account the economic situation in all member countries. However, as a very small country the situation in Iceland is likely not to get a large weight. Also, as an exporter of raw materials (I assume) global shocks are likely to hit Iceland in a different manner from continental Europe. It is not clear that the current trouble wouldn't have been bad even if they joined the Euro, the problem is more that of an extremely large banking sector that has gone wild over the last years. [[User:Jørgen|Jørgen]] ([[User talk:Jørgen|talk]]) 19:46, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

:If Iceland joined the EU, it would have to adopt all its laws (small countries have little leverage to get opt-outs). This would include allowing the free movement of labour, which could be an issue in such a small, homogeneous country. More significantly, it would have to allow other EU countries to fish in its waters. Fishing is a very important activity, accounting for [[Economy_of_Iceland|70% of export income]] and the Iceland fishery is run in a sustainable manner, with the economic benefits accruing to Icelandic companies and people. The EU fishery policy would best be described as rapacious and would likely lead quickly to the ruination of the Icelandic fishery, to the benefit of the large Spanish and Portuguese fishing fleets and processors. That alone is a pretty good reason to stay out. [[User:Franamax|Franamax]] ([[User talk:Franamax|talk]]) 21:03, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

== riddle ==

hi, i'm from india and i hav a riddle for u.plz solve it, becos i cant

fishermen love me. but doctors hate me. kids want to eat me.
who am i? i'm a 13 letter word
hint: --H-T---I-ME- <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/122.50.133.167|122.50.133.167]] ([[User talk:122.50.133.167|talk]]) 04:57, 8 October 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

It's [[Chaetognatha|Chaetognathas]] or worms (the hint is wrong as it's only 12 letters). Fishermen use worms as bait, doctors don't like to see worms in patients and kids like [[Gummi bear|Gummy worms]] (Gummi bears). [[User:CambridgeBayWeather|CambridgeBayWeather]] [[User_talk:CambridgeBayWeather|Have a gorilla]] 05:09, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
:Nice - but it doesn't really fit the hint does it? The trouble is that none of the words in the half-dozen spell-check dictionaries I tested had any 13 letter words that came remotely close to fitting "--H-T---I-ME-" - so I fear that our OP has not copied the hint down correctly...or perhaps the answer is in some Indian language. [[User:SteveBaker|SteveBaker]] ([[User talk:SteveBaker|talk]]) 13:05, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

::All the things I found indicated that it was chaetognaths or chathuringmes but that the hint was wrong. Just dump the riddle into Google there's plenty of hits. [[User:CambridgeBayWeather|CambridgeBayWeather]] [[User_talk:CambridgeBayWeather|Have a gorilla]] 21:41, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

== What is the name of this fallacy? ==

I have looked at the [[List of fallacies]] and I find this one. It is probably there but just not obvious from the description. It is an attempt to exclude exceptions brought up to falsify claims. An example would be if someone said "Americans don't know anything about politics and events outside the USA". Someone objects "What about [[Condoleezza Rice]], are you saying that she doesn't know anything about politics and events outside the USA?". The first person says "But she's not American, she's a politician" (or more subtly as "You can't count her, she's a politician"). It is often used in religious debates (He's no Christian, He's a Democrat!).

I have seen this argument a number of times, and until I find the proper name I have dubbed it the "He's no Scotsman, He's a golfer" fallacy. -- [[User:Q Chris|Q Chris]] ([[User talk:Q Chris|talk]]) 07:37, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
:[[No true Scotsman]]. [[User talk:Algebraist|Algebraist]] 07:52, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
::It is certainly a variation on the [[No true Scotsman]], though in the normal "Scotsman" fallacy the point put forward to exclude the person, i.e. "What about [[Condoleezza Rice]], are you saying that she doesn't know anything about politics and events outside the USA?" would be responded to with "Well if she knows about politics and events outside the USA that proves that she is not a true American". I think this is subtly different, picking some other characteristic or group they belong to and implying that it is somehow mutually exclusive with the original designation. -- [[User:Q Chris|Q Chris]] ([[User talk:Q Chris|talk]]) 08:04, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

:::That's because when someone says "Americans don't know anything about politics and events outside the USA", they typically mean "the average American doesn't know...". If that interpretation is correct then using a high-ranking government official to justify American's average knowledge of world politics/events would be foolish.--[[User:Droptone|droptone]] ([[User talk:Droptone|talk]]) 11:48, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

:::: I agree that the Condoleezza Rice example just seems to the first person communicating poorly, and the second person simply missing the point (perhaps intentionally). That doesn't seem to cover the "He's no Christian!" debate, but that's probably coverd by [[No true scotsman]] depending on context. [[User:APL|APL]] ([[User talk:APL|talk]]) 13:07, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

:::::Looks like the retort is mixing in a little [[straw man]]. [[User:Plasticup|<b><font color="#0080FF">Plasticup</font></b>]] [[User_Talk:Plasticup |<font color="#2A8E82"><sup><small>T</small></sup></font>]]/[[Special:Contributions/Plasticup|<font color="#2A8E82"><small>C</small></font>]] 15:01, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

::::::There's a very good chance that in the upcoming election we may have a [[Sarah Palin|high ranking official who doesn't know a darned thing about world politics]]. But that has yet to be decided yet.--[[User:Jayron32|Jayron32]].[[User talk:Jayron32|<small>talk</small>]].[[Special:Contributions/Jayron32|<small>contribs</small>]] 01:57, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
:::::::That's better than having a [[George W. Bush|high ranking official who doesn't know a darned thing]]. ;) </off-topic political rant> --[[User:Tango|Tango]] ([[User talk:Tango|talk]]) 22:12, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

:::::::: XML Parsing Error: Mismatched tag "</off-topic political rant>", opening tag not found.. --[[User: Antilived|antilived]]<sup>[[User_talk:Antilived|T]] | [[Special:Contributions/Antilived|C]] | [[User:Antilived/Gallery|G]]</sup> 02:19, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

== MV Synetta, Maritime Accident in 1986 ==

I am trying to find out how and why the MV Synetta sunk off the coast of Iceland in December 1986? What it was carrying when it did and also any pictures of it before it sank!!! Really any information i can find at all and I'm Struggling Thankyou!! <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/86.10.170.51|86.10.170.51]] ([[User talk:86.10.170.51|talk]]) 09:27, 8 October 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:It was a British tanker called the ''Syneta'' (only one t) and it hit a rock. See [http://wrecks.softwaredoc.org/news/trib8601.htm TANKER SHIP RAMS ROCK; 12 DIE] and there may be more [http://ius-software.si/EUII/eurovoc/conservatism.htm here] if you have a password. [[User:CambridgeBayWeather|CambridgeBayWeather]] [[User_talk:CambridgeBayWeather|Have a gorilla]] 10:23, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

== Inanimate objects seen as... ==

Apologies for mucking up the reference desk again, but I think there's a name for the "perceiving objects as living" phenomenon, such as treating a houseplant like a pet. If there is a name for this, can anyone tell me what it is? --[[User:Glass Star|Glass Star]] ([[User talk:Glass Star|talk]]) 09:28, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
:Do you mean [http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/anthropomorphic anthropomorphic] or [[Anthropomorphism]]? [[User:CambridgeBayWeather|CambridgeBayWeather]] [[User_talk:CambridgeBayWeather|Have a gorilla]] 10:14, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
::It is similar to this, I checked that first but anthropomorphism is specifically about giving '''human''' characteristics to an animal or inanimate object. What Glass Star is talking about is giving animal-like characteristics, and would cover things like [[Pet Rock|Pet Rocks]]. -- [[User:Q Chris|Q Chris]] ([[User talk:Q Chris|talk]]) 10:22, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
:::[[zoomorphic]] is the animal equivalent. I acknowledge that this might not quite meet the question, though. --[[User:Tagishsimon|Tagishsimon]] [[User_talk:Tagishsimon|(talk)]] 12:38, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
:::(ec) It ''ought'' to be [[Zoomorphism]] - but our article indicates a subtly different meaning for that term and Wiktionary gives a yet different definition. [[User:SteveBaker|SteveBaker]] ([[User talk:SteveBaker|talk]]) 12:40, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
:::: [[Anthropomorphism]] works for the case I'm talking about, I think. Thanks for the help --[[User:Glass Star|Glass Star]] ([[User talk:Glass Star|talk]]) 15:09, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
Not to be pedantic, but since when are plants inanimate? [[User:Plasticup|<b><font color="#0080FF">Plasticup</font></b>]] [[User_Talk:Plasticup |<font color="#2A8E82"><sup><small>T</small></sup></font>]]/[[Special:Contributions/Plasticup|<font color="#2A8E82"><small>C</small></font>]] 14:57, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
:I've taken "inanimate" objects to mean things that are not mobile without help. (I'm not going to throw any of my potted plants though.) --[[User:Glass Star|Glass Star]] ([[User talk:Glass Star|talk]]) 15:09, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
::[[Eppur si muove]].
::[[Rapid plant movement]]. [[User:AlmostReadytoFly|AlmostReadytoFly]] ([[User talk:AlmostReadytoFly|talk]]) 15:40, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

== Documentary/ audience research ==

hi i need help finding various research, i've found good sources (such as Channel4, BBC commissioning and BARB) already but it's not very specific.
In my course we are finding out what reasearch is taken to produce documentaries, we have been told to find out:
* Audience data
* Audience awareness
* Product research
* Audience profiling
* Consumer behaviour
* Consumer attitudes
* Competitor analysis
* Advertising placement
* Advertising effects,
if you have any good websites, research, etc,etc, it will be a great help! cheers <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/88.106.81.235|88.106.81.235]] ([[User talk:88.106.81.235|talk]]) 11:32, 8 October 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:I suspect the references for the article on [[advertising]] would be very helpful; that is such a broad area you might get a lot there.I don't know if you've tried Wikipedia before, but you can usually type any of the above things in and get something, though it should be the start, not the end to research.

:Also, check out some books by prominent authors who have written about the the field of media. I don't recall a lot of names from my Communication courses 20 years ago, but one I do is [[Marshall McLuhan]].[[Special:Contributions/209.244.30.221|209.244.30.221]] ([[User talk:209.244.30.221|talk]]) 12:26, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

:Are you sure you're reading from the proper course notes? The points you outline above read like something to do with an advertising or [[marketing]] course, nothing to do with a [[Documentary film|documentary]] at all. [[User:Franamax|Franamax]] ([[User talk:Franamax|talk]]) 11:39, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

=="Linkedin" invitation: Should I give a monosyllable?==

Dear Abby:

It's true that I have a lousy memory for names, but anyway an unfamiliar name has just emailed me out of the blue to ask me if he can "link me in". I'd never heard of [[LinkedIn|linkedin.com]] and dutifully surfed there and started to read but pretty soon dozed off. (No offense to the writers of the WP article on it, but this is more of the same.) Sounds like something of absolutely no interest to me and furthermore actually rather repulsive, as it seems to encourage cliquishness, so easily used to ensure that jobs are shared by people of the same skin pigmentation, etc. Anyway I presume it's merely another "service" offered by a company that will sell the info to companies with deep pockets as well of course as (since it's in the US) giving it all to that nice Mr Cheney under the "Patriot" Act.

The message I got is polite, spelled correctly, etc., and it got through my pretty efficient spam filters, so isn't obviously spam. But it's also about as generic as possible. I don't know why my correspondent doesn't start by reminding me what our connection is, unless he lacks the necessary time and effort because he's sending off hundreds of these things. Or then again "he" might be a spambot. Still, as mentioned above, I have trouble remembering people's names, so I have slight twinges of conscience about ignoring what might be a well-intentioned message from somebody I actually know.

What would y'all do?

(No, I'm not a member of Facebook, etc. Quite aside from privacy issues, I've been appalled by what I've seen over the shoulders of Facebook members gazing adoringly at photos of their chums' cats, etc. Perhaps my Facebook-using acquaintances aren't typical and yours are all very different, but whatever the reason these otherwise lucid people seem to regress to a mental age of eight or so when participating, or so their comments imply.)

[[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 14:43, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
:Dear Hoary:

:That email sounds like it comes from a classic spambot. If you find yourself wanting to join a friend networking site, I suggest Facebook. You don't have to look at pictures of people's cats, but it can help you stay in contact with friends that would otherwise drift away. In my first year after college I am still in (light) contact with many of my old friends, thanks mainly to Facebook.

:[[User:Plasticup|<b><font color="#0080FF">Plasticup</font></b>]] [[User_Talk:Plasticup |<font color="#2A8E82"><sup><small>T</small></sup></font>]]/[[Special:Contributions/Plasticup|<font color="#2A8E82"><small>C</small></font>]] 14:55, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

:LinkedIn is a social networking site with a business orientation. While it is superfically similar to Facebook et al, it has almost none of the shiny gewgaws and cruft that make all those other sites so annoying, it mostly exists to engender maintenance of contacts to business acquaintances. I'd much rather hear from my old pal Joe Doaks that his company has an opening for a widget designer with my skills than get cold calls from headhunters. I am more than a little puzzled by the slightly veiled accusation of racism; I've never seen anything remotely resembling that. In any case, LinkedIn does, unfortunately, offer the same "give me your email credentials and I'll invite all your contacts!!!11!" functionality that so many sites have these days, and that is probably the source of your mysterious email. If you don't want to respond, then don't. Easy peasy. --[[User:LarryMac|<font color="#3EA99F">LarryMac</font>]][[User talk:LarryMac|<font color="#3EA99F"><small> | Talk</small></font>]] 15:25, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

::No, I hadn't heard that LinkedIn was racist, but all the talk about people you can trust, etc., seems only slightly different from talk about the kind of people you feel comfortable working with, who might be the people you're comfortable playing golf with, who might just happen not to include womenfolk, persons of swarthy complexion, etc. I've heard plenty of criticism of meritocracy and of interviews, but I'd thought that the combination of these two was preferable to a computer-powered old-boy network on steroids. All this whizbang technology to such an (apparently) premodern end: but perhaps I should stop worrying and be happy. Meanwhile, I think I'll take your advice and ignore the invitation. -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] ([[User talk:Hoary|talk]]) 15:36, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
:::That didn't sound like his advice to me... Like these people say, it's a social networking site with an emphasis on the working world. It probably won't be particularly annoying ''or'' get you a job, but it can be nice (and occasionally useful) to keep in touch with people in a professional capacity. The point LarryMac was trying to make (I believe) is that it's no big deal... [[User:TastyCakes|TastyCakes]] ([[User talk:TastyCakes|talk]]) 20:18, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
:::Hoary, where exactly do you work? I've worked with, for, and over at least many dozens (probably hundreds) of womenfolk and persons of swarthy complexion. I consider many many of those people my friends. What earthly difference does it make what colour or gender they are? LinkedIn is a site oriented toward business networking, just the same as Facebook and MySpace are oriented toward social networking, Bebo is more child-oriented, and hi5 is some other weird thing. None of those sites has a profile entry for skin colour or a tick-box for "Prevent Jews from contacting me". The "kind of people" you feel comfortable with is entirely your own choice. Regardless of the website, if you entertain prejudice, you will be delivered to the constrained world of your own choosing - just don't complain that your world is smaller than you'd hoped it would be. [[User:Franamax|Franamax]] ([[User talk:Franamax|talk]]) 11:23, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

== Are there any possibilities for two countries to become one? ==

Are there any possibilities for two countries to become one? --[[User:V4vijayakumar|V4vijayakumar]] ([[User talk:V4vijayakumar|talk]]) 17:24, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

:Sure. There have been many times in history when two independent countries have merged to become one single country. At least 3 U.S. states became part of the U.S. that way (see [[Republic of Texas]], [[Republic of Hawaii]], and [[Republic of California]].), though in each of those cases there was an unequal merger; the smaller country essentially merged into the larger one. The [[Act of Union 1707]] created the new country of [[Kingdom of Great Britain|Great Britain]], by formally merging the countries [[Scotland]] and [[England]], though the two had been ruled by the same monarch since 1603, when Queen Elizabeth I died and named James VI of Scotland as her heir. The [[Union of South Africa]] was created by the merger of several independent dominions; IIRC they all had [[responsible government]] before the merger, and so could be considered at some level semi-independent countries both before and after. As far as the current situation, well, if two independent countries, where neither was coerced by the other, entered into a treaty that merged the two countries into one, that could happen. However, given the trends in the international community, where multi-ethnic states have actually been spliting along ethnic lines (i.e. [[Czech Republic]] and [[Slovakia]], the various [[Balkan states]] of the former [[Yugoslavia]], the [[Two-state solution]] in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, [[East Timor]], etc. etc.) I don't personally see it as all that likely. Since World War II we have seen new states emerge all over the place, but I don't think there has been a single situation since then where two states voluntarily ended their separate existance to form a new, singular state. --[[User:Jayron32|Jayron32]].[[User talk:Jayron32|<small>talk</small>]].[[Special:Contributions/Jayron32|<small>contribs</small>]] 17:41, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

::I suppose that East and West Germany are an exception to your last point, considering that the people on both states wanted to form voluntarily a new state (perhaps the government of one would like to keep the status quo). [[User:Mr.K.|Mr.K.]] [[User_talk:Mr.K.|(talk)]] 17:48, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
:::Of course, they were one country to start with, so it was a re-merger rather than just a merger. --[[User:Tango|Tango]] ([[User talk:Tango|talk]]) 18:08, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
:::: That could be said of a lot of conquests, for a suitably chosen value of "to start with". —[[User:Tamfang|Tamfang]] ([[User talk:Tamfang|talk]]) 17:37, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

:Groups of independent states coming together on certain areas of governance are becoming popular, the [[EU]], for example, or the [[African Union]]. They aren't merging to the point of becoming one country, but they are moving in that direction - some people think they will eventually go all the way. --[[User:Tango|Tango]] ([[User talk:Tango|talk]]) 18:08, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

::[[Yemen]], [[Vietnam]], potentially [[Korea]]? Though all of those were perhaps one country to start with before being split. [[United Arab Emirates]] might be a case. [[Denmark]] and [[Norway]] in the 1300s. [[Federated States of Micronesia]]? The unification of [[Italy]]? [[Castille]] and [[Aragon]]? Some of these should confirm that two (or more) states indeed can become one. [[User:Jørgen|Jørgen]] ([[User talk:Jørgen|talk]]) 19:41, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

This isn't quite the same, but there's an analogy. The 6 British colonies (NSW, Victoria, Queensland, SA, WA and Tasmania) federated into the single nation of Australia in 1901. This wasn't done by administrative decree from Britain, but after a long process involving popular referendums held in the colonies. Up till the last minute, there was doubt that Western Australia would be part of Australia (and they later even held a referendum where the majority voted to secede from Australia, but the UK Parliament would not allow it). There's a good argument that what resulted was just another colony, at least until Australia was accepted as a sovereign nation by the League of Nations in 1920, and we certainly didn't achieve practical independence until at least 1930 and not legal independence (almost) until 1986, but that's not relevant to the analogy I'm drawing. -- [[User:JackofOz|JackofOz]] ([[User talk:JackofOz|talk]]) 20:19, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

There was also the short lived [[United Arab Republic]]. [[User:TastyCakes|TastyCakes]] ([[User talk:TastyCakes|talk]]) 20:23, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
:In the U.S., there is the often overlooked [[Vermont Republic]]. There is also the [[Anschluss]] that annexed Austria into Germany, then later acquisitions of Alsace-Lorraine, Eupen-Malmed, Luxembourg, the Sudetenland and parts of Poland. Also consider the [[Roman Empire]] and the [[Holy Roman Empire]] and a myriad of other historical examples. --—<i><b>—&nbsp;[[User:Gadget850|<font color = "gray">Gadget850&nbsp;(Ed)</font>]]<font color = "darkblue">&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Gadget850|''talk'']]</sup></font></b> - </i> 20:50, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
::Staying with Jayron's British theme there is also the 1801 merger between the Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland to form the United Kingdom. ;) Best, --'''[[User:Cameron|Cameron]][[User Talk:Cameron|*]]''' 20:53, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

::The [[Dominion of Newfoundland]] and [[Canada]] in 1949. [[User:CambridgeBayWeather|CambridgeBayWeather]] [[User_talk:CambridgeBayWeather|Have a gorilla]] 21:19, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

:::Come on, New Zealand, how about joining us and becoming part of Greater Australia. -- [[User:JackofOz|JackofOz]] ([[User talk:JackofOz|talk]]) 21:49, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
::::No. [[User:Gwinva|Gwinva]] ([[User talk:Gwinva|talk]]) 23:29, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
:::::Oh, why not? As far as I can tell, y'all talk the same, anyway :-) --[[User:Trovatore|Trovatore]] ([[User talk:Trovatore|talk]]) 23:32, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
::::::Oh, not at all, Trovatore. I wouldn't pay sexpence for my fəsh and chəps. Non-ministerial parliamentarians here are called back-benchers; NZ has a different animal called beck-binchers. -- [[User:JackofOz|JackofOz]] ([[User talk:JackofOz|talk]]) 00:30, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
:::::::A lot of crude online maps already label the whole Australasia as "Australia" anyway.. But I'm still surprised it's not Australians that came out with the name "Eee", considering how much you guys love your iː's. --[[User: Antilived|antilived]]<sup>[[User_talk:Antilived|T]] | [[Special:Contributions/Antilived|C]] | [[User:Antilived/Gallery|G]]</sup> 08:48, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
::::::::[http://images.google.co.nz/imgres?imgurl=http://bp2.blogger.com/_St9RELbyiQE/SEOJnzvyZAI/AAAAAAAAAPo/_1ZSS_UXjYI/s320/North%2BIsland,%2BSouth%2BIsland,%2BWest%2BIsland,%2BNew%2BZealand-795399.jpg&imgrefurl=http://readsworldofpostcards.blogspot.com/2008/06/north-island-south-island-west-island.html&h=208&w=320&sz=17&hl=en&start=1&sig2=_54iKn0exk08SfNP1Ixy4w&um=1&usg=__VSDbw2EO_5krv1qeUnfxUnxzvnw=&tbnid=aX2Pn7ZxW9gKSM:&tbnh=77&tbnw=118&ei=gFzuSMOZApj2sAPRjdWIBA&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522West%2BIsland%2522%2B%2522North%2BIsland%2522%2B%2522South%2BIsland%2522%26ndsp%3D20%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-GB:official%26sa%3DN Not ''all'' crude online maps]. [[User:Gwinva|Gwinva]] ([[User talk:Gwinva|talk]]) 19:34, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::I like it. But Tasmanians might be a bit miffed by being regarded as part of the "island of Australia". -- [[User:JackofOz|JackofOz]] ([[User talk:JackofOz|talk]]) 19:39, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
:Also Egypt & Syria joined for a time to form the [[United Arab Republic]]. —[[User:D Monack|D. Monack]] [[User talk:D Monack|<sup>''talk''</sup>]] 22:07, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
::Libya was also a part of the UAR for a while. <font family="Arial">[[User:NurseryRhyme|<span style="color:dark blue">Little Red Riding Hood</span>]]''[[User talk:NurseryRhyme|<span style="color:dark blue">talk</span>]]''</font> 00:22, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

::[[History of Germany|the German Empire]] was formed in 1871 from 25 smaller states. [[User:Edison|Edison]] ([[User talk:Edison|talk]]) 23:11, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
:::A few states in Central America briefly merged then separated again - a few Caribbean island nations did as well. Can't recall the names of those countries though. But if they did it once they could perhaps do it again. [[User:Rmhermen|Rmhermen]] ([[User talk:Rmhermen|talk]]) 23:53, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
::::[[West Indies Federation]]. <font family="Arial">[[User:NurseryRhyme|<span style="color:dark blue">Little Red Riding Hood</span>]]''[[User talk:NurseryRhyme|<span style="color:dark blue">talk</span>]]''</font> 01:12, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

:Despite all these examples, it is somewhat strange that two modern states would unite willingly. [[Nationalism]] and [[patriotism]] usually work against such things. Countries seem more likely to split into smaller entities these days. German ''re''unification is probably the only successful recent example. However, the possibilities are still there. It would take a large event for one country to willingly give up its sovereignty to another country. [[User:Steewi|Steewi]] ([[User talk:Steewi|talk]]) 23:56, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
::Additional: The double government - [[Yiguo liangzhi]] - of China is one solution to large scale disputed territory. [[User:Steewi|Steewi]] ([[User talk:Steewi|talk]]) 23:57, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

:::<s>[[Italian unification|Unification of Italy]]</s>. Never mind. Already been said. (And I thought I checked so carefully!) [[User:Cherry Red Toenails|Cherry Red Toenails]] ([[User talk:Cherry Red Toenails|talk]]) 01:49, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

::::Most people remember the Acts of Union 1707 but there was the [[Laws in Wales Acts 1535–1542]] which gave [[England and Wales]] and the [[Act of Union 1800]] that merged the [[Kingdom of Ireland]] with the Kingdom of Great Britain to [[United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland]]. There is also the [[Yemenite unification]] which is only a few months older than the German reunification. There are some others listed at [[List of national border changes since World War I]] and [[List of national border changes from 1815 to 1914]]. [[User:CambridgeBayWeather|CambridgeBayWeather]] [[User_talk:CambridgeBayWeather|Have a gorilla]] 07:50, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

We might see [[South Ossetia]] merge into [[Russia]]. [[User:Plasticup|<b><font color="#0080FF">Plasticup</font></b>]] [[User_Talk:Plasticup |<font color="#2A8E82"><sup><small>T</small></sup></font>]]/[[Special:Contributions/Plasticup|<font color="#2A8E82"><small>C</small></font>]] 14:45, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
:Not any time soon - even Russia won't want to cause ''that'' big a diplomatic incident! (Of course, it is already de-facto part of Russia, so it makes little difference.) --[[User:Tango|Tango]] ([[User talk:Tango|talk]]) 22:06, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
::The first step, having the breakaway republic recognized as an independent state, is already underway. After a year or two, the people of South Ossetia hold a vote and decide to merge into Russia. Russia graciously accepts. I think it is very plausible, and Putin et al certainly have the balls for it. [[User:Plasticup|<b><font color="#0080FF">Plasticup</font></b>]] [[User_Talk:Plasticup |<font color="#2A8E82"><sup><small>T</small></sup></font>]]/[[Special:Contributions/Plasticup|<font color="#2A8E82"><small>C</small></font>]] 00:44, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:::Interestingly, that scenario is almost exactly the same one that gave the U.S. the state of[[Hawaii]]. --[[User:Jayron32|Jayron32]].[[User talk:Jayron32|<small>talk</small>]].[[Special:Contributions/Jayron32|<small>contribs</small>]] 02:39, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:::Russia have recognised it, everybody else (except Nicaragua apparently) still considers it part of Georgia and it doesn't look like that is likely to change. Russia accepting the result of a vote by part of another sovereign state to join them would count as illegally annexing the region and would be an act of war. Whether anyone other than Georgia would consider it worth fighting World War III over, I don't know, but at the very least Russia would be diplomatically isolated and would probably be put under economic sanctions (their economy is rather fragile as it is, I believe, so that's a serious threat). If Georgia joins NATO in the intervening time, then in theory the whole of NATO would declare war on Russia - for that reason, I'm not sure Georgia will actually be accepted into NATO (no-one was willing to fight for them before, so I doubt they will in future). --[[User:Tango|Tango]] ([[User talk:Tango|talk]]) 09:43, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
::::Russia's "fragile" economy just happens to be the source of a very large portion of Europe's natural gas supply. The sanctions would be applied by a bunch of shivering-cold people - and thereby hangs a geosocioeconopolitical tale. [[User:Franamax|Franamax]] ([[User talk:Franamax|talk]]) 10:00, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:::::Indeed, it could turn into an international game of chicken! --[[User:Tango|Tango]] ([[User talk:Tango|talk]]) 15:35, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

== TYPE OF CURRENT ==

WHAT TYPE OF CURRENT IS PRODUCED BY A BATTERY? <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/199.91.37.33|199.91.37.33]] ([[User talk:199.91.37.33|talk]]) 19:25, 8 October 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:Our articles on [[direct current]] and [[alternating current]] should be of use. Also, please avoid typing in all caps. &mdash; [[User talk:Lomn|Lomn]] 19:38, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

:Actually, a battery doesnt ''produce'' an [[electric current]] regardless, as its not a [[current source]]; but it can ''deliver'' a current to an [[electrical load]]. But lets not get too persnickety.--[[User:GreenSpigot|GreenSpigot]] ([[User talk:GreenSpigot|talk]]) 00:00, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Direct Current[[Special:Contributions/92.2.26.236|92.2.26.236]] ([[User talk:92.2.26.236|talk]]) 01:19, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

:FINALLY! A direct answer. [[User:Edison|Edison]] ([[User talk:Edison|talk]]) 16:15, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

= October 9 =

== 7 p's of marketing ==

Can someone please help me compare the 7p'f of marketing for macdonalds and burger king?? <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/220.225.79.210|220.225.79.210]] ([[User talk:220.225.79.210|talk]]) 14:32, 9 October 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

[[7 p's]] - it's not something specific to Macdonalds/Burger King it's a marketing 'concept' or 'theory' or whatever you call it. Either way it should be under [[Seven P's]] or [[7 p's]] - was when I searched anyways [[Special:Contributions/194.221.133.226|194.221.133.226]] ([[User talk:194.221.133.226|talk]]) 14:36, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

:While there's a policy here not to do peoples' homework for them, you should read through the [[Seven Ps]] and [[marketing mix]] articles to familiar yourself with them. When you've done that, consider analysing the two companies using [[SWOT]] and/or [[PEST]] analysis. When you've finished those, you should have a good understanding of the internal and external factors of each business, and how the marketing mix is relevant to each (and how they differ). [[User:Booglamay|<b style="color:#74AECF">Boo</b><b style="color:#4D97C1">gla</b><b style="color:#0B5A88">may</b>]] (<font style="color:#6699cc">[[User talk:Booglamay|talk]]</font>) - 14:41, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

== OCR on Java or http pages ==

I am trying to find a program that will allow me to ocr words on jave or http pages, anyone know of any?thanks[[User:Canacatcancan|Canacatcancan]] ([[User talk:Canacatcancan|talk]]) 14:42, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

:The only even vaguely plausible meaning you might intend for OCR is [[optical character recognition]]. But if that is what you mean, why would you want to recognise characters which you already have in electronic form? --[[User:ColinFine|ColinFine]] ([[User talk:ColinFine|talk]]) 22:46, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

I do mean optical character recognition. I am unable to select the text on the webpage by highlighting, I have only been able to copy the page. When the page is copied to other programs, i.e., word- the text comes in as a picture. I am trying to find a simple way to get the ingredients listed on a product, such as cheetos from the frito-lay site, into text form. I need to enlarge the text for seniors to be able to be read easily, enlarging it on the computer screen, has been fine for some seniors, but others need a printout.thanks[[User:Canacatcancan|Canacatcancan]] ([[User talk:Canacatcancan|talk]]) 05:11, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

:OK, I see. It's nothing to do with HTML (or HTTP) then - you don't have text, but only a picture of text. If you have a scanner, you have software that will do this (after all, they scan in the picture whether it is a photograph or a document, and then run an OCR process on it. Whether your scanner system makes the OCR program available to you for files already on your computer or not, I don't know.
:But googling for "OCR software", I find that the second and fourth hits are for free OCR packages: http://www.simpleocr.com/ and http://www.softi.co.uk/freeocr.htm. I have no idea how these are, but it won't cost you anything to try them. --[[User:ColinFine|ColinFine]] ([[User talk:ColinFine|talk]]) 07:32, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
::I don't know how many times I've had to manually type in a company/organization address because the contact page is an image. Web designers of the world—think of the end user. [[User:Darkspots|Darkspots]] ([[User talk:Darkspots|talk]]) 11:46, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

== Jeep Wrangler Unlimited ==

Hello

2 door Jeep wrangler unlimited's were made from 2004 1/2 to 2006 i was curious how many were made all together and how many were made avaliable with the "H" package these were made from 2005-2006

Thank you
Brian
<span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/70.229.248.70|70.229.248.70]] ([[User talk:70.229.248.70|talk]]) 16:06, 9 October 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:The article [[Jeep Wrangler]] is pretty comprehensive. If the article itself does not contain the specific information you are looking for, there are references and external links at the bottom that may. Good luck --[[User:Jayron32|Jayron32]].[[User talk:Jayron32|<small>talk</small>]].[[Special:Contributions/Jayron32|<small>contribs</small>]] 17:35, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

== Fly spray ==

Do flies suffer pain when killed with [[fly spray]]? --[[User:Richardrj|Richardrj]] [[User talk:Richardrj|<sup>talk </sup>]][[Special:Emailuser/Richardrj|<sup>email</sup>]] 17:57, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
:I think what you're really asking is, [[What Is it Like to Be a Bat?|what is it like to be a fly]]? --[[User:Trovatore|Trovatore]] ([[User talk:Trovatore|talk]]) 21:51, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

::Maybe Kafka´s [[the metamorphosis|Metamorphosis]] may provide some insight into insecticidal [[angst]]. --[[User:Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM|Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM]] ([[User talk:Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM|talk]]) 23:11, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

:::There's no need to get metaphysical on the poor fellow! Surely there is a biological answer. For instance, while the fly is dying by fly spray do any unusual signals flow to its brain? [[User:Plasticup|<b><font color="#0080FF">Plasticup</font></b>]] [[User_Talk:Plasticup |<font color="#2A8E82"><sup><small>T</small></sup></font>]]/[[Special:Contributions/Plasticup|<font color="#2A8E82"><small>C</small></font>]] 00:59, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
::::Actually, there ''is'' a need to get metaphysical. In fact your (apparent) identification of the neurological correlates of perception, with perception itself, is a metaphysical position. --[[User:Trovatore|Trovatore]] ([[User talk:Trovatore|talk]]) 01:10, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:::::Neurological response is a necessary condition for perception. If the fly has no neurological response to insecticide then the metaphysical argument is moot. [[User:Plasticup|<b><font color="#0080FF">Plasticup</font></b>]] [[User_Talk:Plasticup |<font color="#2A8E82"><sup><small>T</small></sup></font>]]/[[Special:Contributions/Plasticup|<font color="#2A8E82"><small>C</small></font>]] 03:44, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
::::::Perhaps -- but what if it ''does'' have a response? Let's see you try to get outta doing metaphysics ''then''. Wittgenstein and others of his ilk unfortunately managed to convince a bunch of folks that metaphysics is dispensable, but they were wrong. --[[User:Trovatore|Trovatore]] ([[User talk:Trovatore|talk]]) 05:50, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Blimey, I didn't mean this question to stir up a bout of metaphysical fisticuffs. OK, let me rephrase the question. Do flies have a neurological response to insecticide? I would take it to the science desk, but they're a bunch of geeks over there who can't get girlfriends :) --[[User:Richardrj|Richardrj]] [[User talk:Richardrj|<sup>talk </sup>]][[Special:Emailuser/Richardrj|<sup>email</sup>]] 09:20, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:::::::You are right, [[User:Trovatore|Trovatore]], but I was hoping that we could find a metaphysics-free answer. Philosophy is usually my last refuge, after all empirical methods have failed. [[User:Plasticup|<b><font color="#0080FF">Plasticup</font></b>]] [[User_Talk:Plasticup |<font color="#2A8E82"><sup><small>T</small></sup></font>]]/[[Special:Contributions/Plasticup|<font color="#2A8E82"><small>C</small></font>]] 14:58, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

:When I was a kid, I remember losing sleep and having nightmares after seeing a photograph in some kind of science book in which a fly had has half of it's abdomen chopped off - and yet was still eating sugar-water that had been laid out for it. This suggests (albeit superficially) that the fly really isn't smart enough to feel pain. But it's an extremely tough question to answer. [[User:SteveBaker|SteveBaker]] ([[User talk:SteveBaker|talk]]) 03:24, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

:As I'm sure you've observed, spraying fly spray onto a fly elicits an ''aversive response''. The fly either flies away or writhes if it has received a killing dose. Whether you wish to interpret that as ''pain'' or not is up to you. Clearly the fly is suffering some discomfort, alternatively its neural and motor systems are reacting to an aversive stimulus. Pick you word, or read up on your philosophy. As to a specific question above - the signals flowing to the fly's brain are not ''unusual'' - they are the standard "I'm dying" signals. [[User:Franamax|Franamax]] ([[User talk:Franamax|talk]]) 10:57, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:Are they? Surely the twitching could be a motor response over which the brain has no control. Some bug sprays are neurotoxins, so they could act by killing neurons and shutting down the brain without eliciting any neurological response at all. [[User:Plasticup|<b><font color="#0080FF">Plasticup</font></b>]] [[User_Talk:Plasticup |<font color="#2A8E82"><sup><small>T</small></sup></font>]]/[[Special:Contributions/Plasticup|<font color="#2A8E82"><small>C</small></font>]] 14:58, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

== Extension of earlier Question re; USA Congress(es) ==

I followed the link given in answer to the earlier question and noticed that following JFK's assassination, the 88th Congress House of Representatives' numbers fell BACK to 435 from its higher numbers in 2 previous Congresses. Why was that? [[Special:Contributions/92.20.0.126|92.20.0.126]] ([[User talk:92.20.0.126|talk]]) 18:50, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
:From [[United States House of Representatives#Apportionment]]:
::The number was temporarily increased to 437 in 1959 upon the admission of Alaska and Hawaii (seating one representative from each of those states without changing existing apportionment), and returned to 435 four years later, after the reapportionment consequent to the 1960 census.
:--[[Special:Contributions/71.106.183.17|71.106.183.17]] ([[User talk:71.106.183.17|talk]]) 18:57, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

== Security of Obama relatives ==

With [[Family of Barack Obama|Barack Obama's relatives]] spread out in various places, including some living in Kenya slums, if Obama was elected president, wouldn't it be easy for terrorist groups to, say, kidnap one of them and make demands on the U.S.? How would Obama handle such a situation? --[[Special:Contributions/71.106.183.17|71.106.183.17]] ([[User talk:71.106.183.17|talk]]) 19:00, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
:I don't get the impression that he's particularly close to his Kenyan relations; didn't his Kenyan father leave his mother to raise him from a very early age? -[[User:FisherQueen|FisherQueen]]<span style="font-size: smaller;"> ([[User talk:FisherQueen|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/FisherQueen|contribs]])</span> 19:18, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
::That does not necessarily mean that, should there lives be threatened, he would lack any compassion towards the situation. --[[User:Jayron32|Jayron32]].[[User talk:Jayron32|<small>talk</small>]].[[Special:Contributions/Jayron32|<small>contribs</small>]] 19:42, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
:::Certainly not, but it seems that he would react more as a President reacting to the threatening of civilians' lives, and less like a man whose family has been threatened, in my personal opinion. . -[[User:FisherQueen|FisherQueen]]<span style="font-size: smaller;"> ([[User talk:FisherQueen|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/FisherQueen|contribs]])</span> 22:18, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
:What members of the US President's family usually get protection? Isn't it just spouses, children and grandchildren? [http://www.ustreas.gov/usss/protection.shtml] says "immeadiate family". --[[User:Tango|Tango]] ([[User talk:Tango|talk]]) 21:07, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

:You might as well ask about terrorists taking anybody hostage—all political figures have family, friends, etc. spread out over a wide area, like most people (perhaps even more so given their resources). No leader worth their salt would let their personal feelings override the needs of the nation. I've seen no evidence that Obama (or McCain) would be irrational in this particular regard. --[[Special:Contributions/98.217.8.46|98.217.8.46]] ([[User talk:98.217.8.46|talk]]) 23:31, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

:It seems to me that relatives without coverage from the security folks are pretty much as at risk no matter where they live. It's really not going to be any harder to kidnap someone in the rural parts of the USA than in the plains of Kenya - and the cities in Kenya are really fairly modern and well-policed. I can't see why it's a special deal in this case. At any rate - if one used this rather remote risk as a reason not to vote for Obama, then you'd be giving the terrorists power over your ability to choose your own president - which is even more damaging than what a president might or might not do in order to secure the safe release of a relative. [[User:SteveBaker|SteveBaker]] ([[User talk:SteveBaker|talk]]) 03:20, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

:Seems to me that kidnapping a family member of the President of the USA would get you simultaneous demonstrations of "we don't negotiate with kidnappers" and "we used our advanced intelligence capability to locate you, then used our advanced imaging and weapon systems to put a bullet through your head". It's not like the [[Secret Service]] is unaware of these possibilities and doesn't plan for them. Country-wide invasion and counter-insurgency may not be a US strong point, but solving a point crisis - my money would be on the US, [[User:Franamax|Franamax]] ([[User talk:Franamax|talk]]) 10:40, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

== Does university turn you into a illness resistant machine? ==

I've been thinking, having started University I, like pretty much everyone have got [[Freshers' Flu]]. I'm just about coming to the end of the bout but can't help thinking - even after only 3 weeks - I must've picked up some pretty strong immunity to various illnesses. My thinking goes, by the time a student finishes university, will they be immune to pretty much every common strain of every common illness under the sun? With a healthy intake of new ill freshers every year a student must build up one hell of an immune system. What do you think? -[[User:Benbread|Benbread]] ([[User talk:Benbread|talk]]) 20:50, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

:Unfortunately there are so many strains of illnesses and they are constantly mutating into new strains that you can never be immune to everything (or even close). People that are exposed to lots of infections (which includes people living in Uni halls) do develop more immunities, though. --[[User:Tango|Tango]] ([[User talk:Tango|talk]]) 21:10, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

::Where I live we get a lot of immigrants and visitors. At any one time about 30% of the population here is both foreign and temporary, mostly from Europe, North America, South America, India/Pakistan, and the Caribbean. They all bring their bugs with them, and as a result I probably have one of the most experienced immune systems in the world. Universities (especially those with geographically diverse populations) do a very similar thing. [[User:Plasticup|<b><font color="#0080FF">Plasticup</font></b>]] [[User_Talk:Plasticup |<font color="#2A8E82"><sup><small>T</small></sup></font>]]/[[Special:Contributions/Plasticup|<font color="#2A8E82"><small>C</small></font>]] 00:52, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

= October 10 =

==Hearts==
Suppose you start a hand of [[Hearts]] with all 13 hearts (or all hearts but one, the remaining card being the queen of spades). How are you supposed to play the first turn? [[User:February 15, 2009|February 15, 2009]] ([[User talk:February 15, 2009|talk]]) 01:55, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:If you have all 13 hearts, then it doesn't matter how you play it. If you're on lead you'll automatically take all 13 tricks and run; if you're not on lead you can never take a trick so you're guaranteed not to take any points, unless someone else can run, but you can't do anything about it in any case.
:If you have 12 hearts plus the queen of spades, if you're on lead, then according to the usual rule you're forced to lead the queen since hearts have not been broken. If everyone ducks, lead the ace of hearts next if you have it (if you don't I'm afraid you're hosed). If someone takes the queen with a higher card, then hold onto the heart 2 if you have it until the first heart lead, on which you'll play it. If you don't have it I'm afraid you're probably hosed. --[[User:Trovatore|Trovatore]] ([[User talk:Trovatore|talk]]) 02:12, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:The 2 of clubs always leads, so if you have all the hearts or all but one and the queen of spades, then you won't be leading. You'll have to throw away on the first turn, breaking hearts. After that, if you have all the hearts, you'll throw away every turn get no points, if you are missing one heart you have to hope it is either thrown away or it isn't the deuce. If the deuce is led, you'll have to win that trick, taking 2 points. If you still have the queen, you should then lead it in the vain hope that someone will have to play the king or ace and then you can throw away for the rest of the game for a total of 2 points. If you have already thrown away the queen (which is wise, since there is a risk of you winning a trick if spades is led), you'll have to win every trick from then on. So, for the first turn: If you have all the hearts, it makes no difference and you'll end up with zero points. If you have the queen of spades instead of a heart other than the deuce, discard it first and hold onto the deuce (or any other heart lower than the one you're missing) in case the other heart is led. If you have the queen instead of the deuce, you're going to have to gamble on whether you think the deuce will be led (and how early in the game) or thrown away. I'm not sure what the best strategy there is, since it depends on the actions of other players. --[[User:Tango|Tango]] ([[User talk:Tango|talk]]) 09:32, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
::Leading in hearts depends on the variation you are playing. The version with Windows uses the 2 clubs lead but other rules do have the person on the left of the dealer leading. [[User:CambridgeBayWeather|CambridgeBayWeather]] [[User_talk:CambridgeBayWeather|Have a gorilla]] 13:17, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

:::The ''correct'' rules are that the left of dealer leads, of course. --[[User:Trovatore|Trovatore]] ([[User talk:Trovatore|talk]]) 17:31, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

I think the question is regarding the rule that you cant play point cards on the first trick. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/173.8.100.50|173.8.100.50]] ([[User talk:173.8.100.50|talk]]) 17:48, 10 October 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:There is no such rule, not in the ''correct'' version, which as always means "the version I learned". However, ''if'' you're playing with such a non-canonical rule, then obviously it has an exception for this case, just as the rule that you can't lead hearts until a point card has been played (whether by sluff, lead, or follow) has to be modified in the case that you're caught on lead with only hearts. --[[User:Trovatore|Trovatore]] ([[User talk:Trovatore|talk]]) 18:02, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
::There are many variations on Hearts, and no one version is canonical or "correct". All these rules are frequently used enough to be considered within the typical Hearts canon... --[[User:Jayron32|Jayron32]].[[User talk:Jayron32|<small>talk</small>]].[[Special:Contributions/Jayron32|<small>contribs</small>]] 18:21, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:::The correct version, of course, is the one played in [[Fleming Hovse]], where men are men and the thundering herd is real. --[[User:Trovatore|Trovatore]] ([[User talk:Trovatore|talk]]) 19:01, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

==Gametraders==
Is Gametraders the only Australian franchise that sells old games?

:Link removed.


Cash converters also sells them. [[Special:Contributions/203.202.144.223|203.202.144.223]] ([[User talk:203.202.144.223|talk]]) 01:59, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

== Miss Hawaiian Tropic International ==

I'm looking for a reliable source for an article. I want to find out who Miss Hawaiian Tropic International for 1989 was. I know who Wikipedia says it was but there's no source. I've tried both the Hawaiian Tropic web site as well as Google and I can't find anything. Thanks. <span style="font-family:monospace;">[[User:Dismas|Dismas]]</span>|[[User talk:Dismas|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 03:07, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:[https://www.hawaiiantropicmodels.com/site.php/spgs/read/25years/ this page] has pics, but no names. If you can find another pic of the person who it is claimed to be in the Wikipedia article, you could probably look and see for yourself... --[[User:Jayron32|Jayron32]].[[User talk:Jayron32|<small>talk</small>]].[[Special:Contributions/Jayron32|<small>contribs</small>]] 03:20, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
::[http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0132559/ IMDB] says its Jennifer Campbell. As does [http://www.rottentomatoes.com/celebrity/jennifer_campbell/ this page] and [http://www.rottentomatoes.com/celebrity/jennifer_campbell/ this page] and [http://listing-index.ebay.com/actors/Jennifer_Campbell.html this one too] and [http://www.pageant.com/hawaiian-tropic/titleholders/ this one as well]. Was this what you were looking for? --[[User:Jayron32|Jayron32]].[[User talk:Jayron32|<small>talk</small>]].[[Special:Contributions/Jayron32|<small>contribs</small>]] 03:23, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:::Seems like at least three of those links are Wikipedia mirrors, that's bad form. Especially for someone like me, just looking for a picture... [[User:Franamax|Franamax]] ([[User talk:Franamax|talk]]) 10:06, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
::::Quite possibly. I just typed the name from the Wikipedia article into Google, and looked for what was returned. The last link (the table) says that the source is Hawaiian Tropic itself, however. --[[User:Jayron32|Jayron32]].[[User talk:Jayron32|<small>talk</small>]].[[Special:Contributions/Jayron32|<small>contribs</small>]] 12:04, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

== Copyright question regarding mediaevil images ==

First off I'd like to say I'm a real copyright noob. I was just wondering if is there could any reason that [http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/in-thefootsteps-bibletrans/Footsteps,%20resized/edward_iii.jpg this image] (for example) might be copyrighted? Is it possible for images from the middle ages to be copyrighted? Thanks, --'''[[User:Cameron|Cameron]][[User Talk:Cameron|*]]''' 12:57, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

:Looking at the article [[copyright]] there is this section
"In the United States, all books and other works published before 1923 have expired copyrights and are in the public domain. In addition, works published before 1964 that did not have their copyrights renewed 28 years after first publication year also are in the public domain, except that books originally published outside the US by non-Americans are exempt from this requirement, if they are still under copyright in their home country (see How Can I Tell Whether a Copyright Was Renewed for more details).

But if the intended exploitation of the work includes publication (or distribution of derivative work, such as a film based on a book protected by copyright) outside the U.S., the terms of copyright around the world must be considered. <b> If the author has been dead more than 70 years, the work is in the public domain in most, but not all, countries </b>. Some works are covered by copyright in Spain for 80 years after the author's death."

Perhaps that helps? [[Special:Contributions/194.221.133.226|194.221.133.226]] ([[User talk:194.221.133.226|talk]]) 13:18, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

:There's no information supplied with your example image. If we assume that the image is a straightforwards photographic reproduction of a middle ages image, then it is in the public domain. Any claim of copyright on it is more in hope & error, than in reality. Despite this, very many institutions and websites make erroneous copyright claims for public domain items. There are circumstances in which a reproduction might accrue new copyright - but the test is to do with "originality", which in the example you've shown, would appear to be absent. In the US, [[Bridgeman Art Library v. Corel Corp.]] is a landmark case in this area. --[[User:Tagishsimon|Tagishsimon]] [[User_talk:Tagishsimon|(talk)]] 13:41, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
::Note that the "a reproduction of something in the public domain is also in the public domain" applies in the US (though not all such companies recognize it at all—e.g. Corbis does not and happily claim copyright on things that are in the public domain, claiming they "own the copyright to the scan"), and not necessarily elsewhere. Some countries appear to recognize the "[[sweat of the brow]]" model of copyright (which I think is ridiculous but there you go). --[[Special:Contributions/98.217.8.46|98.217.8.46]] ([[User talk:98.217.8.46|talk]]) 13:46, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
:::OK so straightforward photographic reproductions of mediaevil images are in the public domain? I think that's all I need to know then. Thanks so much! ;) --'''[[User:Cameron|Cameron]][[User Talk:Cameron|*]]''' 14:54, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

::::Well, it might be worth noting that it's not "mediaevil" (which looks like "media evil" and is very strange looking) but "medieval". ;-) --[[Special:Contributions/98.217.8.46|98.217.8.46]] ([[User talk:98.217.8.46|talk]]) 16:11, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

:The painting itself (presuming it's medieval) is clearly out of copyright - so you could find out where it is and go take a photo of it and do whatever you like with your photo. However, what you have here is a photograph of the painting that (presumably) someone else took. They may well own the copyright on that photograph - thereby prohibiting you from using it. [[User:SteveBaker|SteveBaker]] ([[User talk:SteveBaker|talk]]) 20:07, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
::I believe that in the US, a two-dimensional reproduction of a public-domain image is also public domain. If the image included the frame (assuming there was one), it would be a three-dimensional reproduction and thus copyrighted. If there was something else in the shot, or some fancy lighting effects, or it was an X-ray image, also copyright. A plain 2D repro though, where no creative addition has been made - no copyright. (See Tagishsimon's link above) The image could thus be used on English Wikipedia, which is hosted in the US. To be used on Commons though, it would also have to pass the copyright test of whatever country it was created/first published in. It does get complicated... [[User:Franamax|Franamax]] ([[User talk:Franamax|talk]]) 20:23, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

== Emigration from the United States ==

Is there anywhere to find out information about how many Americans have emigrated out of the United States to other countries in a given time period?

--[[User:Wellington grey|Wellington grey]] ([[User talk:Wellington grey|talk]]) 19:41, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

== What is the name... ==

of the famous image of [[Marilyn Monroe]] in all different colours? There's four of them and it is parodied alot in shows and games like [[MySims]] and [[The Simpsons]] to name two. It is often mistakenly called [[Marilyn Diptych]], another of Warhol's works.

Revision as of 20:41, 10 October 2008

Zodiac Killer
The symbol used by the Zodiac Killer in signing his correspondence.
Details
VictimsFive killed, two injured; thirty seven claimed
Span of crimes
1968 (possibly as early as 1963) – 1969 (possibly as late as 1970)
CountryU.S.
State(s)California
Date apprehended
Unapprehended

The Zodiac Killer is a serial killer who operated in Northern California in the late 1960s. His identity remains unknown. The Zodiac coined his name in a series of taunting letters he sent to the press. His letters included four cryptograms (or ciphers), three of which have yet to be solved.

The Zodiac murdered five known victims in Benicia, Vallejo, Lake Berryessa, and San Francisco between December 1968 and October 1969. Four men and three women between the ages of 16 and 29 were targeted. Others have also been suspected to be Zodiac victims, albeit inconclusively. The lack of consensus about the number of victims, the inability of law enforcement to crack the ciphers, and the fact that several people have inconclusively been portrayed as "persons of interest" or possible suspects, has elicited this case's designation as a perfect crime.

In April 2004, the San Francisco Police Department marked the case "inactive", but reopened it some time before March 2007. The case remains open in other jurisdictions as well.

In September 2008, a Sacramento man came forward and said that he had found evidence that pointed to his step-father being the Zodiac Killer. A blood-stained cape, a bloody knife and rolls of photographic film are being examined by the FBI, along with other personal effects and writing samples. The FBI expects testing to be complete by mid-October 2008.[1] [2] [3]

Confirmed

Although the Zodiac claimed in letters to newspapers that he murdered as many as 37 people, investigators agree on only seven confirmed victims, two of whom survived. They are:

  • David Arthur Faraday, 17 and Betty Lou Jensen, 16: Shot and killed on December 20, 1968, on Lake Herman Road just within the city limits of Benicia.
  • Michael Renault Mageau, 19, and Darlene Elizabeth Ferrin, 22: Shot on July 4, 1969, at the Blue Rock Springs Golf Course parking lot on the outskirts of Vallejo; Darlene was DOA at Kaiser Foundation Hospital, while Michael survived.
  • Bryan Calvin Hartnell, 20, and Cecelia Ann Shepard, 22: Stabbed on September 27, 1969 at Lake Berryessa in Napa County. Hartnell survived six stab wounds to the back, but Shepard died of her injuries two days later.
  • Paul Lee Stine, 29: Shot and killed on October 11, 1969, in Presidio Heights in San Francisco.

Suspected

Many others have been identified as potential Zodiac victims, although evidence is inconclusive. Of the following popular suspected victims, none have been confirmed:

  • Robert Domingos, 18, and Linda Edwards, 17: Shot and killed on June 4, 1963, at a beach near Lompoc. Edwards and Domingos were named as possible Zodiac victims because of specific similarities between their attack and the Zodiac's attack at Lake Berryessa six years later.[4]
  • Cheri Jo Bates, 18: Stabbed to death and nearly decapitated on October 30, 1966, at Riverside Community College in Riverside. Bates' possible connection to the Zodiac only came to light four years after her murder when San Francisco Chronicle reporter Paul Avery received a tip regarding similarities between the Zodiac killings and the circumstances surrounding Bates' death.[5]
  • Kathleen Johns, 22: Abducted on March 22, 1970, on Highway 132 by I-580, west of Modesto. Johns escaped from the car of a man who drove her and her infant daughter around on the backroads between Stockton and Patterson for some three hours. After escaping to the police station in Patterson, she saw the Zodiac's wanted poster and identified him as her kidnapper.[6]
  • Donna Lass, 25: Last seen September 26, 1970, in South Lake Tahoe. A postcard with an ad from Forest Pines condominiums (near Incline Village at Lake Tahoe) pasted on the back was received at the Chronicle on March 22, 1971, and has been interpreted by some as the Zodiac claiming Lass' disappearance as a victim. However, no evidence has ever been uncovered to connect Donna Lass's disappearance with the Zodiac Killer.[7]

Timeline

Lake Herman Road

The first murders widely attributed to the Zodiac Killer were the shootings of high school students Betty Lou Jensen and David Faraday on December 20, 1968, just outside the Benicia city limits.

The couple were on their first date and planned to attend a Christmas concert at Hogan High a few blocks from Jensen's home. Instead they visited a friend and stopped at a local restaurant, then drove out Lake Herman Road. At about 10:15 pm Faraday parked his mother's Rambler in a gravel turnout, which was a well-known lover's lane.

Shortly after 11 pm, another car pulled into the turnout and parked beside them. The driver apparently got out with a pistol and ordered them out of the Rambler. Jensen exited first. When Faraday was halfway out, the man shot Faraday in the head. Fleeing, Jensen was gunned down twenty-eight feet from the car by five shots through her back. The man then drove off.[8]

Their bodies were found minutes later by Stella Borges, who lived nearby. The Solano County Sheriff's Department investigated the crime but no leads developed.[9]

Blue Rock Springs

Some time around midnight on July 4 - July 5, 1969, Darlene Ferrin and Michael Mageau drove to the Blue Rock Springs Golf Course in Vallejo, four miles from the Lake Herman Road murder site, and parked. While they sat in Ferrin's car, another car drove into the lot and parked beside them. It drove away almost immediately, then returned about 10 minutes later and parked behind them. The driver then got out and approached the passenger side door, carrying a flashlight and a 9 mm handgun. He first shone the light in their eyes to blind them, then shot both of them multiple times and began to return to his car. When Mageau moaned in pain, the driver returned and shot them both again. He then drove off.[10]

At 12:40 am, a man phoned the Vallejo Police Department to report and claim responsibility for the attack. He also took credit for the murders of Jensen and Faraday six and a half months earlier. The police traced the call to a phone booth at a gas station at Springs Road and Tuolumne, about three tenths of a mile from Ferrin's home and only a few blocks from the Vallejo Police Department.[11][12]

Ferrin was pronounced dead at the hospital. Mageau survived the attack despite being shot in the face, neck, and chest.[13]

The Zodiac letters begin

The solution to Zodiac's 408-symbol cipher. The meaning, if any, of the final eighteen letters has not been determined.[14]

On August 1, 1969, three letters prepared by Zodiac were received at the Vallejo Times-Herald, the San Francisco Chronicle, and the San Francisco Examiner. The nearly identical letters took credit for the shootings at Lake Herman Road and Blue Rock Springs. Each letter also included one-third of a 408-symbol cryptogram which the killer claimed contained his identity. Zodiac demanded they be printed on each paper's front page or he would "cruse [sic] around all weekend killing lone people in the night then move on to kill again, until I end up with a dozen people over the weekend."[15] The Chronicle published its third of the cryptogram on page four of the next day's edition. An article printed alongside the code quoted Vallejo Police Chief Jack E. Stiltz as saying "We're not satisfied that the letter was written by the murderer" and requested the writer send a second letter with more facts to prove his identity.[16] The threatened murders did not happen, and all three parts were eventually published.

On August 7, 1969, another letter was received at the San Francisco Examiner with the salutation "Dear Editor This is the Zodiac speaking". It was the first time the killer had referred to himself with this name. The letter was in response to Chief Stiltz asking him to provide more details to prove he killed Faraday, Jensen and Ferrin. In it, the Zodiac included details about the murders which had not been released to the public as well as a message to the police that when they cracked his code "they will have me".[17]

On August 8, 1969, Donald and Bettye Harden of Salinas, California, cracked the 408-symbol cryptogram. No name appears in the decoded text. [14]

Lake Berryessa

On September 27, 1969, Bryan Hartnell and Cecelia Shepard were picnicking at Lake Berryessa on a small island connected by a sand spit to Twin Oak Ridge. A man approached them wearing a black executioner's-type hood with clip-on sunglasses over the eye-holes and a bib-like device on his chest that had a white 3"x3" cross-circle symbol on it. He approached them with a gun Hartnell believed to be a .45. The hooded man claimed to be an escaped convict from Deer Lodge, Montana, where he killed a guard and stole a car, and explained that he needed their car and money to go to Mexico. He had brought precut lengths of plastic clothesline and told Shepard to tie up Hartnell, before tying her up himself. The Zodiac checked and tightened Hartnell's bonds after discovering she bound him loosely. Hartnell initially believed it to be a weird robbery, but the man drew a knife and stabbed them both. He then hiked 500 yards back up to Knoxville Road, drew the cross-circle symbol on Hartnell's car door with a black felt-tip pen, and wrote beneath it: Vallejo/12-20-68/7-4-69/Sept 27-69-6:30/by knife.[18] [19]

At 7:40 p.m., the man called the Napa County Sheriff's office from a pay telephone to report his crime. The phone was found still off the hook minutes later at the Napa Car Wash on Main Street in Napa by KVON radio reporter Pat Stanley, only a few blocks from the sheriff's office and 27 miles from the crime scene. Detectives were able to lift a still-wet palm print from the telephone but were never able to match it to a suspect.[20]

A man and his son who were fishing in a nearby cove had discovered the victims after hearing their screams for help and summoned help by contacting park rangers. Napa County Sheriff Deputies Dave Collins and Ray Land were the first law enforcement officers to arrive at the scene of the assault.[21] Cecelia Shepard was conscious when Collins arrived and gave him a detailed description of the attacker. Hartnell and Shepard were taken to Queen of the Valley Hospital in Napa by ambulance. Shepard lapsed into a coma during transport to the hospital and never regained consciousness. She died two days later, but Hartnell survived to recount his tale to the press.[22][23] Napa County Sheriff Detective Ken Narlow, who was assigned to the case from the outset, worked on solving the crime until his retirement from the department in 1987.[24]

Presidio Heights

On October 11, 1969, a man entered Paul Stine's cab at the intersection of Mason and Geary Streets in San Francisco and requested to be taken to Washington and Maple Streets in Presidio Heights. For reasons unknown, Stine drove one block further to Cherry Street; the man shot him once in the head with a 9mm, then took his wallet and car keys and tore off his shirt tail. He was observed by three teenagers across the street at 9:55 pm, who called the police as the crime was in progress. They observed the man wiping the cab down, and then walking away towards the Presidio, one block to the north. The police arrived minutes later, and the teen witnesses explained that the killer was still nearby.

Two blocks from the crime scene, Officer Don Fouke, also responding to the call, observed a white man walking along the sidewalk then stepping onto a stairway leading up to the front yard of one of the homes on the north side of the street; the encounter lasted only five to ten seconds. His partner, Eric Zelms, did not see the man. The radio dispatch had alerted them to look for a black and not a white suspect, so they had no reason to talk to the man and drove past him without stopping; the mix up in descriptions remains unexplained to this day. When they reached Cherry, Fouke was informed by Officer Pellisetti that they were in fact looking for a white suspect; Fouke realized they must have passed the killer. Fouke concluded that the Zodiac had resumed his original route and escaped into the Presidio, so they entered the base to look for him but the killer had vanished. A search ensued, but nothing was found. The three teen witnesses worked with a police artist to prepare a composite of Stine's killer, and a few days later returned to produce a second composite. The killer was estimated to be 35-45 years of age. Detectives Bill Armstrong and Dave Toschi were assigned to the case. The San Francisco Police Department eventually investigated an estimated 2,500 suspects over a period of years.[25]

More letters and codes

File:Zodiac340cipher.png
The unsolved 340-symbol cipher, mailed November 8, 1969.

On October 14, 1969, the Chronicle received yet another letter from the Zodiac, this time containing a swatch of Paul Stine's shirt tail as proof he was the killer; it also included a threat about shooting school children. It was only then that the police knew whom they were looking for a few nights before in Presidio Heights.

At 2 a.m. on October 22, 1969, someone claiming to be the Zodiac called Oakland PD demanding that one of two prominent lawyers, F. Lee Bailey or Melvin Belli, appear on Jim Dunbar's television talk show in the morning. Bailey was not available, but Belli appeared on the show. Dunbar appealed to the viewers to keep the lines open, and eventually, someone claiming to be the Zodiac called several times and said his name was Sam. Belli agreed to meet with him in Daly City, but the suspect never showed up. Police officers who had heard the Zodiac, listened to "Sam's" voice and agreed that he was not the Zodiac. Subsequent calls the suspect made to Belli were traced to the Napa State Hospital, where it was learned that "Sam" was a psychiatric patient.

On November 8, 1969, the Zodiac mailed a card with another cryptogram consisting of 340 characters. On November 9, 1969, he mailed a seven-page letter in which he claimed that two policemen stopped and actually spoke with him three minutes after he shot Stine. Excerpts from the letter were published in the Chronicle on November 12, including the Zodiac's claim;[26][27] that same day, Don Fouke wrote a memo explaining what had happened that night. The 340 character cipher has never been decoded.[28] Many possible "solutions" have been suggested, but cannot be accepted since they do away with code making conventions.

On December 20, 1969, exactly one year after the murders of David Faraday and Betty Lou Jensen, the Zodiac mailed a letter to Belli and included yet another swatch of Stine's shirt; the Zodiac claimed he wanted Belli to help him.

Modesto

On the night of March 22, 1970, Kathleen Johns was driving from San Bernardino to Petaluma to visit her mother. She was seven months pregnant and had her 10-month-old daughter beside her. While heading west on Highway 132 near Modesto, a car behind her began honking and flashing its lights. She pulled off the road and stopped. The man in the car parked behind her, stated her right rear tire was wobbling, and offered to tighten the lugs. After finishing his work, the man drove off, and when Johns pulled forward the wheel came off the car. The man stopped, backed up, and offered to drive her to the nearest gas station for help. She and her daughter climbed into his car. They drove past several service stations but the man did not stop. For some three hours he drove them up and down the backroads around Tracy, and when she asked why he was not stopping, he would change the subject.[6]

When the driver stopped at an intersection, Johns jumped out with her daughter and hid in a field. He came out to look for her, but when a truck driver spotted the scene, Johns' abductor drove off. Johns hitched a ride to the police station in Patterson. As she gave her statement to the sergeant on duty, she noticed the police composite of Paul Stine's killer and recognized him as the man who abducted her and her child. Fearing the Zodiac might come back and kill them all, the sergeant had Johns wait in nearby Mil's Restaurant in the dark. When found, her car had been gutted and torched.

There are many conflicting accounts of the Johns abduction. Most claim he threatened to kill her and her daughter while driving them around, but at least one police report disputes that.[6] Johns' account to Paul Avery of the Chronicle indicates her abductor left his car and searched for her in the dark with a flashlight; however, in the two reports she made to the police, she stated he did not leave the vehicle.[29] Some accounts state Johns' vehicle was moved then torched, while others contend it was located where she'd left it.[29] The various discrepancies among Johns' accounts over the years have led many researchers to question whether she was an actual Zodiac victim.[30]

Further communications

The Zodiac continued to communicate with authorities for the remainder of 1970 via letters and greeting cards to the press. In a letter postmarked April 20, 1970, the Zodiac wrote, "My name is _____," followed by a 13-character cipher.[31] The Zodiac went on to state that he was not responsible for the recent bombing of a police station in San Francisco (referring to the February 18, 1970, death of Sgt. Brian McDonnell two days after the bombing at Park Station in Golden Gate Park)[32] but added "there is more glory to killing a cop than a cid [sic] because a cop can shoot back." The letter included a diagram of a bomb the Zodiac claimed he would use to blow up a school bus. At the bottom of the diagram, he had written: " = 10, SFPD = 0".[31]

Zodiac sent a greeting card postmarked April 28, 1970, to the Chronicle. Written on the card was, "I hope you enjoy yourselves when I have my BLAST," followed by the Zodiac's cross circle signature. On the back of the card, the Zodiac threatened to use his bus bomb soon unless the newspaper published the full details he wrote. He also wanted to start seeing people wearing "some nice Zodiac buttons [sic]".[33]

In a letter postmarked June 26, 1970, the Zodiac stated he was upset he did not see people wearing Zodiac buttons. He wrote, "I shot a man sitting in a parked car with a .38."[34] It has been proposed the Zodiac was referring to the murder of Sgt Richard Radetich a week earlier, on June 19. At 5:25 AM, Radetich was writing a parking ticket in his squad car when an assailant shot him in the head with a .38-caliber pistol. Radetich died 15 hours later. SFPD denies the Zodiac was involved in this murder; it remains unsolved.[32]

Included with the letter was a Phillips 66 map of the San Francisco Bay Area. On the image of Mount Diablo, the Zodiac had drawn a crossed-circle similar to that he had included in previous correspondence. At the top of the crossed circle, he placed a zero, and then a three, six, and a nine, so the annotation resembled a clock face. The accompanying instructions stated that the zero was “to be set to Mag. N."[35] The letter also included a 32-letter cipher that the killer claimed would, in conjunction with the code, lead to the location of a bomb he had buried and set to go off in the autumn. The bomb was never located. The killer had signed the note with " = 12, SFPD = 0".

In a letter to the Chronicle postmarked July 24, 1970, the Zodiac took credit for Kathleen Johns' abduction, four months after the incident.[36]

In his July 26, 1970 letter, the Zodiac paraphrased a song from The Mikado, adding his own lyrics about making a "little list" of the ways he planned to torture his "slaves" in "paradice." The letter was signed with a large, exaggerated cross circle symbol and a new score: " = 13, SFPD = 0".[37] A final note at the bottom of the letter stated, "P.S. The Mt. Diablo code concerns Radians + # inches along the radians."[38] In 1981, a close examination of the radian hint by Zodiac researcher Gareth Penn led to the discovery that a radian angle, when placed over the map per Zodiac's instructions, pointed to the locations of two Zodiac attacks.[39]

On October 7, 1970, the Chronicle received a three-by-five inch card signed by the Zodiac with the drawn with blood. The card's message was formed by pasting words and letters from an edition of the Chronicle and thirteen holes were punched across the card. Inspectors Armstrong and Toschi agreed it was "highly probable" the card came from the Zodiac.[40]

Riverside

On October 27, 1970, Chronicle reporter Paul Avery (who had been covering the Zodiac case) received a Halloween card signed with a letter 'Z' and the Zodiac's cross circle symbol. Handwritten on the card was the note "Peek-a-boo, you are doomed." The threat was taken seriously and received a front page story on the Chronicle.[5] Soon after, Avery received an anonymous letter alerting him to the similarities between the Zodiac's activities and the unsolved murder of Cheri Jo Bates, which had occurred four years earlier at the city college in Riverside in the Greater Los Angeles Area, more than 400 miles south of San Francisco.[41] He reported his findings in the Chronicle on November 16, 1970.

On October 30, 1966, 18-year-old Bates spent the evening at the campus library annex until it closed at 9 p.m. Neighbors reported they heard a scream around 10:30 p.m. Bates was found dead the next morning a short distance from the library between two abandoned houses slated to be demolished for campus renovations. The wires in her Volkswagen's distributor cap had been pulled out. She was brutally beaten and stabbed to death. A man's Timex watch with a torn wristband was found nearby.[42] The watch had stopped at 12:24,[43] but police believe the attack occurred much earlier.[42] Also discovered were the prints of a military-style shoe.[44]

File:Zodiac Killer - first letter.jpg
The Confession

A month later, on November 29, 1966, nearly identical typewritten letters were mailed to the Riverside police and the Riverside Press-Enterprise. Titled "The Confession", the author claimed responsibility for the Bates murder, providing details of the crime not released to the public, and warned that Bates "is not the first and she will not be the last."[45]

In December 1966, a poem was discovered carved into the bottom side of a desktop in the Riverside Community College library. Titled "Sick of living/unwilling to die", the poem's language and handwriting resembled those of the Zodiac's letters. It was signed with what were assumed to be the initials "rh". Sherwood Morrill, California's top "Questioned Documents" examiner, expressed his opinion that the poem was written by the Zodiac.[46]

On April 30, 1967 – the six-month anniversary of Bates' murder – Bates' father Joseph, the Press-Enterprise, and the Riverside police all received nearly identical letters. In handwritten scrawl, the Press-Enterprise and police copies read "Bates had to die there will be more," with a small scribble at the bottom that resembled the letter 'Z'. Joseph Bates' copy read "She had to die there will be more" without a 'Z' “signature”.[47]

On March 13, 1971, nearly four months after Paul Avery's first article on Bates, the Zodiac mailed a letter to the Los Angeles Times. In it he credited the police instead of Avery for discovering his "Riverside activity, but they are only finding the easy ones, there are a hell of a lot more down there."[48]

The connection between Cheri Jo Bates, Riverside, and the Zodiac remains uncertain. The Riverside Police Department maintains that the Bates homicide was not committed by the Zodiac, but did concede some of the Bates letters may have been his work to falsely claim credit.[49]

Lake Tahoe

On March 22, 1971, a postcard to the Chronicle addressed to "Paul Averly" – intended for Paul Avery and believed to be from the Zodiac – appeared to take credit for the disappearance of Donna Lass on September 26, 1970. Made from a collage of advertisements and magazine lettering, it featured a scene from an ad for Forest Pines condominiums and the text "Sierra Club," "Sought Victim 12," "peek through the pines," "pass Lake Tahoe areas," and "around in the snow." Zodiac's cross circle symbol was in the place of the usual return address.[50]

Lass was a nurse at the Sahara Tahoe hotel and casino. She worked until about 2 a.m. on September 26, treating her last patient at 1:40 a.m., and was not seen leaving her office. The next morning, her work uniform and shoes were found in a paper bag in her office inexplicably soiled with dirt. Her car was found at her apartment complex, and her apartment was spotless.[51] Later that day both her employer and her landlord received phone calls from an unknown male who falsely claimed Lass had to leave town due to a family emergency.[52] The police and sheriffs' office initially treated Lass' disappearance as a missing persons investigation, suspecting she simply left on her own.[51] Lass was never found. What appeared to be a grave site was discovered near the Claire Tappan Lodge in Norden, California, on Sierra Club property, but excavation yielded only a pair of sunglasses.[53]

No evidence has ever been uncovered to connect Donna Lass's disappearance with the Zodiac Killer.[7]

Santa Barbara

In a Vallejo Times-Herald story that appeared on November 13, 1972, Santa Barbara Sheriff's Detective Bill Baker (ret.) theorized that the murders of a young couple in Santa Barbara County may have been the work of the Zodiac.

On June 4, 1963, five and a half years before the Zodiac's first known murders on Lake Herman Road, high-school senior Robert Domingos and fiancée Linda Edwards were shot to death on a beach near Lompoc, having skipped school that day for "Senior Ditch Day". Police believed that the assailant attempted to bind the victims, but when they freed themselves attempting to flee, he shot them repeatedly in the back and chest with a .22-caliber weapon. He then placed their bodies in a small nearby shack and tried, unsuccessfully, to burn it down.[4]

The final letters

After the "Pines" card, the Zodiac remained silent for nearly three years, after which the Chronicle received a letter from the Zodiac, postmarked January 29, 1974, praising The Exorcist as "the best saterical comidy [sic]" that he had ever seen. The letter included a snippet of verse from The Mikado and an unusual symbol at the bottom that has gone unexplained by researchers. Zodiac concluded the letter with a new score, "Me = 37, SFPD = 0".[54]

The Chronicle received another letter postmarked February 14, 1974, informing the editor that the initials for the Symbionese Liberation Army spelled out an Old Norse word meaning "kill".[55][56] However, the handwriting was not authenticated as the Zodiac's.

Another letter by the Chronicle, postmarked May 8, 1974, featured a complaint that the movie Badlands was "murder-glorification" and asked the paper to cut its advertisements. Signed only "A citizen", the handwriting, tone, and surface irony are all similar to prior Zodiac communications.[57]

The Chronicle received an anonymous letter postmarked July 8, 1974, complaining about one of its columnists, Marco Spinelli. The letter was signed "the Red Phantom (red with rage)". The Zodiac's authorship of this letter is debated.[58]

Another four years passed without communication (purported or verified) from the Zodiac. A letter of April 24, 1978, was initially deemed authentic, but was declared by three other experts to be a hoax less than three months later. In recent years, however, the letter has been deemed in some quarters as authentic. Toschi, the SFPD homicide detective who had been on the case since the Stine murder, was thought to have forged the letter, since author Armistead Maupin thought it similar to "fan mail" he received in 1976 that he believed was authored by Toschi. While he admitted writing the fan mail, Toschi denied forging the Zodiac letter and was eventually cleared of any charges. The authenticity of the letter remains in question.

On March 3, 2007, it was reported that an American Greetings Christmas card sent to the Chronicle postmarked 1990 in Eureka had been recently discovered in their photo files by editorial assistant Daniel King.[59] Inside the envelope with the card was a photocopy of two U.S. Postal keys on a magnet keychain. The handwriting on the envelope resembles Zodiac's print, but was declared inauthentic by forensic document examiner Lloyd Cunningham. Not all Zodiac experts, however, agree with Cunningham's analysis.[60] There is no return address on the envelope nor is his crossed-circle signature to be found. The card itself is unmarked.[61] The Chronicle turned over all the material to the Vallejo Police Department for further analysis.

Current status

The last SFPD investigators of the case were Homicide Detail Inspectors Michael N. Maloney and Kelly Carroll. They were the first to submit DNA evidence from Zodiac's letters for analysis, which resulted in a partial genetic profile. DNA testing seems to have conclusively ruled out their lead suspect, Arthur Leigh Allen.[62]

The SFPD marked the case "inactive" in April 2004, citing caseload pressure and resource demands.[63] They reopened the case some time before March 2007 and returned evidence to Vallejo police for additional DNA testing, where the case has remained open.[64][65]

The Vallejo Police Department website maintains a link for providing Zodiac crime tips.[66] The case is also open in Napa County[64] and Riverside.[67]

Arthur Leigh Allen

Arthur Leigh Allen was the prime suspect in the Zodiac murders and the only suspect served search warrants by police.[68][69] He was never charged with any Zodiac-related crime, and he continually denied any connection to the murders.[70][71] He died in 1992 from a heart attack. In 2002, DNA samples taken from saliva on the Zodiac's stamps and envelopes were compared with Arthur Leigh Allen's DNA, and that of a former close friend who first fingered him as the Zodiac killer. Neither matched, and Allen has been all but cleared by law enforcement.[72]

The Zodiac Killer in popular culture

The Zodiac Killer's crimes, letters and cryptograms to police and newspapers inspired many movies, novels, television productions and more.

References

  1. ^ Lowe, David. Zodiac Serial Killer Found?; The Sun (UK); 2008-10-01; accessed 2008-10-01.
  2. ^ Bronstein, Phil. Bronstein At Large: Is this it for the Zodiac Killer?; The San Francisco Chronicle; accessed 2008-10-01.
  3. ^ Pickel, Kris. Zodiac Killer's Identity And Weapon Uncovered?; CBS 13, Sacramento, California; accessed 2008-10-01.
  4. ^ a b Santa Barbara Sheriff Detective Bill Baker explains the case on a message board. Accessed 21 July 2007.
  5. ^ a b Graysmith, p. 160.
  6. ^ a b c Police report
  7. ^ a b Possible Zodiac Victim Donna Lass
  8. ^ Graysmith, Robert (1976). Zodiac. Berkley. pp. 4–7. ISBN 0-425-09808-7. {{cite book}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help)
  9. ^ "Dec. 20, 1968 - Lake Herman Road". Retrieved 2008-06-16.
  10. ^ Graysmith, pp. 26 - 28.
  11. ^ Graysmith, pp. 32 - 33.
  12. ^ "Vallejo". AOL. Retrieved 2008-09-16.
  13. ^ Graysmith, p. 29.
  14. ^ a b Graysmith, pp. 54 - 55.
  15. ^ Graysmith, p. 49.
  16. ^ Coded Clues in Murders. San Francisco Chronicle, 2 August 1969. Accessed 21 July 2007.
  17. ^ Graysmith, pp. 55 - 57.
  18. ^ Graysmith, pp. 62 - 77
  19. ^ Message written on Hartnell's car door
  20. ^ Stanley, Pat (2007-02-18). "Zodiac on the line ..." Napa Valley Register. Retrieved 2008-09-16.
  21. ^ Dorgan, Marsha (2007-02-18). "Online exclusive: In the wake, of the Zodiac". Napa Valley Register. Retrieved 2008-09-16.
  22. ^ Carson, L. Pierce (2007-02-18). "Zodiac victim: 'I refused to die'". Napa Valley Register. Retrieved 2008-09-16.
  23. ^ "Girl Dies of Stabbing at Berryessa" (PDF). San Francisco Chronicle. Retrieved 2008-09-16.
  24. ^ Dorgan, Marsha (2007-02-18). "Tracking the mark of the Zodiac for decades". Napa Valley Register. Retrieved 2008-09-16.
  25. ^ Drake, Rossiter. Author believes he knows Zodiac Killer's identity; San Francisco Examiner; 2007-03-01; accessed 2007-03-07.
  26. ^ "I've Killed Seven" The Zodiac Claims. San Francisco Chronicle, November 12, 1969.
  27. ^ New Letters From Zodiac -- Boast of More Killings. San Francisco Chronicle, November 12, 1969.
  28. ^ McCarthy, Chris. "Alphabet of the 340 Character Zodiac Cypher". Archived from the original on 2008-02-06.
  29. ^ a b This Is The Zodiac Speaking/Highway 132
  30. ^ Johns profile
  31. ^ a b "My Name Is" letter; accessed 2007-03-08
  32. ^ a b Zamorra, Jim Herron. 1967-71 -- a bloody period for S.F. police. San Francisco Chronicle; 2007-01-27; accessed 2007-03-07
  33. ^ Dragon card letter
  34. ^ Button letter
  35. ^ Zodiac map letter
  36. ^ Zodiac Johns letter
  37. ^ Zodiac Mikado letter
  38. ^ Zodiac Mikado letter, cont.
  39. ^ Rowlett, Curt, Labyrinth13: True Tales of the Occult, Crime & Conspiracy, Chapter 9, The Z Files: Labyrinth13 Examines the Zodiac Murders, The Rhyme of the Radian, pp. 64-68. (Lulu Press, 2006). ISBN 1-4116-6083-8.
  40. ^ Gilbert and Sullivan Clue to Zodiac. San Francisco Chronicle, October 12, 1970.
  41. ^ Graysmith, pp. 161 - 162.
  42. ^ a b Graysmith, pp. 165 - 166.
  43. ^ Photo of watch found near Bates' body. Accessed 21 July 2007.
  44. ^ Riverside. Accessed 21 July 2007.
  45. ^ Graysmith, pp. 168 - 169.
  46. ^ Graysmith, pp. 170 - 172.
  47. ^ Riverside and the Zodiac. Accessed 21 July 2007.
  48. ^ L.A. Times 1971 Zodiac letter Accessed 21 July 2007.
  49. ^ Zimmerman, Janet. New movie 'Zodiac' includes Redlands resident's attack Riverside Press-Enterprise, March 1, 2007. Accessed March 13, 2007.
  50. ^ Zodiac postcard
  51. ^ a b Message board containing email from former Lake Tahoe police officer
  52. ^ Graysmith, p. 178.
  53. ^ Lass profile
  54. ^ Zodiac Exorcist letter
  55. ^ Tips Still Pursue Multiple Slayer. San Francisco Chronicle, August 26, 1976.
  56. ^ SLA Letter
  57. ^ "Citizen Letter". Archived from the original on 2007-06-15.
  58. ^ Red Phantom letter
  59. ^ Williams, Lance. Zodiac's written clues fascinate document expert. San Francisco Chronicle, March 3, 2007. Accessed March 15, 2007.
  60. ^ Freedman, Rich. Zodiac: Did killer send card in 1990?; The Vallejo Times Herald, March 3, 2007. Accessed March 16, 2007.
  61. ^ Christmas card envelope; Christmas card front; Christmas card interior; Photocopy of Christmas card keys and pencil. Accessed March 15, 2007.
  62. ^ Weiss, Mike; DNA seems to clear only Zodiac suspect; San Francisco Chronicle; 2002-10-12; accessed 2007-02-28
  63. ^ Goodyear, Charlie. Files shut on Zodiac's deadly trail; San Francisco Chronicle; [2004-4-7]]; accessed 2008-9-18
  64. ^ a b Goldman-Hall, Jason; Police still keep Zodiac Killer's case open; San Francisco Examiner; 2007-03-01; accessed 2008-03-22
  65. ^ Zodiac Killer's Identity and Weapon Uncovered? (CBS13 News) CBS13 News Sacramento; 2008-08-28; accessed 2008-09-23
  66. ^ City of Vallejo - Police; accessed 2008-06-15
  67. ^ Hill, Lisa O'Neill; Sleuths keep mysterious death alive (reprint); Riverside Press-Enterprise; 2002-05-13; accessed 2008-03-22
  68. ^ The Case Against Arthur Leigh Allen
  69. ^ Voight, Tom, The Arthur Leigh Allen File; 2003; accessed on 2007-03-01
  70. ^ Zodiac case overview by Clint Vander Klok; accessed on 2007-03-01
  71. ^ Suspect profile of Arthur Leigh Allen; accessed on 2007-03-01
  72. ^ Zodiac Killer Enthusist site cited on trutv.

Further reading

  • Beeman, William (writing as “Dr. Oscar Henry Jigglelance”) Jack the Zodiac Parts I & II (White Lite Publishing, Vallejo, CA, 1990).
  • Davis, Howard, The Zodiac/Manson Connection (Pen Power Publications, Costa Mesa, CA, March 1997). ISBN 0-9629-0842-8.
  • Graysmith, Robert, Zodiac (Berkeley; reissue edition, January 2007). ISBN 0-4252-1218-1.
  • Graysmith, Robert, : The Identity of America's Most Elusive Serial Killer (Berkeley; reissue edition, January 2007). ISBN 0-4252-1273-4.
  • Kelleher, Michael D. and Van Nuys, David, “This is the Zodiac Speaking”: Into the Mind of a Serial Killer (Praeger Publishers, Westport, CT, January 2002). ISBN 0-2759-7338-7.
  • Oswell, Douglas and Rusconi, Michael, Dr. Zodiac: The Unabomber-Zodiac Connection (CD-ROM; Carfax Publishing, Dover, DE, 1998).
  • Penn, Gareth (writing under the pseudonym "George Oakes") Portrait of the Artist as a Mass Murderer, California Magazine November 1981, pp. 111-114, 166-170.
  • Penn, Gareth, Times 17: The Amazing Story of the Zodiac Murders in California and Massachusetts, 1966-1981 (The Foxglove Press, CA, April 1987). ISBN 0-9618-4940-1.
  • Penn, Gareth, The Second Power: A Mathematical Analysis of the Letters Attributed to the Zodiac Murderer and Supplement to Times 17 (self-published booklet 1999).
  • Rasmussen, William T., Corroborating Evidence II (Sunstone Press, 2006). ISBN 0-86534-536-8.
  • Rowlett, Curt, Labyrinth13: True Tales of the Occult, Crime & Conspiracy Chapter 9, The Z Files: Labyrinth13 Examines the Zodiac Murders (Lulu Press, 2006). ISBN 1-4116-6083-8.
  • Rowlett, Curt, Decoding the Zodiac Killer, Issue 43, Paranoia (magazine), Winter 2007, pp. 48-52.

External links