Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates
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- Check the criteria at Wikipedia:In the news section on the Main Page before making your suggestion.
- Place new suggestions at the top under the appropriate date heading (create a new date header if necessary).
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Start the entry with a level 3 header, and then a dot point/bullet (type an asterisk)
Candidate Article
- The candidate item written in simple present tense summary format, short and to the point, with the main article in bold and minimal pertinent links.
Add any additional comments you may have below --and sign & date your entry 12:00, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
- The next editor has something to say about the suggestion. --They've also signed their comment 12:06, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
- Another person has continued the discussion --User's Name 12:07, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
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April 6
Summer Olympics Torch Relay
Thousands of protestors disrupt the 2008 Chinese Olympic torch relay in London, United Kingdom, on the torch's first leg of it's world journey. 91.125.82.181 (talk) 16:30, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
- Oppose. There were protests at the lighting of the fire already and probably there will be more on the next stations. London isn't special. --Tone 16:34, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
- Comment Probably Torch Relay itself is already notable. After all, Olympic Games is a world event. – PeterCX&Talk 02:37, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
Montenegro
Should we mention the first round of the presidential election in Montenegro, once the official results are in? AecisBrievenbus 16:02, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
- Isn't the convention to only mention the final results? If someone is elected at the first round, we should mention it, but otherwise, wait for the second round. Pruneautalk 16:05, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
Current President and regime candidate Filip Vujanović of DPS CG wins the presidential election in first round. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 20:39, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
- This certainly goes up when the results are more certain. As far as I know, this are still projections. I would propose a wording like: Montenegrin president Filip Vujanović of DPS CG wins the second term in the first round of elections. --Tone 20:46, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
- Regime candidate? Regime? AecisBrievenbus 20:55, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
- Projections, but Filip has declared victory and all other three candidates acknowledged it - therefore, it's evident, even without official results.
- Of the ruling coalition. I don't see anything quite negative about the connotation, but drop if you find it bothersome. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 21:39, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
- According to Wiktionary, regime "is often used as a pejorative". Anyway, I'm not quite sure what "regime candidate" is supposed to mean. Was there something special about Vujanovic, apart that he was the incumbent? I suggest:
- Montenegrin president Filip Vujanović (pictured) of DPS CG is re-elected in the first round.
- I would also be more comfortable if we waited for the article to be updated with some numbers before we put it up on ITN. Pruneautalk 22:47, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
- Multi-parliamentarism was restored with the collapse of Communism in 1990. Ever since then, the Communists (or their successors) have been continually in power. Therefore, in Montenegro the government has become known to represent one political course - and the entire opposition - the other. Locally, the rulers (how to name them?) and the opposition no where collaborate. Vujanovic is the government's candidate. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 01:17, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
- There are numbers in the article. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 01:17, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
- Comment on wording: First round of what? SpencerT♦C 01:31, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
- We missed "presidential election". Isn't it obvious? ;) --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 03:47, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
- According to Wiktionary, regime "is often used as a pejorative". Anyway, I'm not quite sure what "regime candidate" is supposed to mean. Was there something special about Vujanovic, apart that he was the incumbent? I suggest:
Wikipedia moves
Wikipedia moves from Florida to San Francisco - 50MWdoug (talk) 11:04, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
- Wikipedia is a website; it can't move. I think you mean Wikimedia. --Jedravent (talk) 15:11, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
- Oppose. This is nothing special, just moving the headquarters. Pretty much internal Wikimedia thing that won't affect the rest of the world considerably. --Tone 15:49, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
Withdrawn
Charlton Heston
On April 5, a great actor, Charlton Heston, passed away. I think this is notable enough for the main page, considering the man made tons of hit movies in his lifetime. –The Obento Musubi (Contributions) 08:46, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
- Support adding Charlton Heston. Hobartimus (talk) 08:47, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
- Considering the controversy surrounding the lack of adding Pavarotti and Edmund Hillary, to name two, I doubt this will find enough of a consensus. This is a moot point, however, while the article remains insubstantially updated. Hammer Raccoon (talk) 09:14, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
- Support Given his place in popular culture due to his movies and his views on guns in America, I think this should go up. --Plasma Twa 2 (talk) 09:16, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
- Your rationale doesn't jibe with the ITN section's purpose (to highlight articles that have been created or substantially updated to reflect major news). ITN isn't a newswire, though we do have a sister site called Wikinews. —David Levy 17:14, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
- Support, I just wish consensus wasn't meaningless in ITN. Teemu08 (talk) 15:12, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
- I wish that people didn't confuse "consensus" with "whatever the most people vote for." —David Levy 17:14, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
- Oppose. Getting an ITN entry is not some kind of lifetime achievement award. Old dude did what old dudes do. No substantial update to article likely to occur. The Tom (talk) 15:40, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
- Oppose. Putting Heston in while not putting others just makes the debate heated. The guidelines still aren't perfect but we should work on them, otherwise we will have a long debate here every time someone prominent dies. Remember Arthur C. Clarke last time? --Tone 15:49, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
- Oppose. Does not meet ITN inclusion criteria. This includes the lack of a substantial article update, which is relevant even if we ignore the death criteria. —David Levy 17:14, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
- Support. I would be the first to admit that Heston may not have had impact on films like Hillary or Clarke had on their fields, but we need to start somewhere. There is somewhat of a consensus that something should be changed with regards to deaths, setting a precedent for inclusion is a start on making such a change. Random89 17:17, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
- Again, even if we ignore the death criteria, the article hasn't been substantially updated to reflect Heston's death. —David Levy 18:37, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
- Here we go again...why didn't we ever adopt this suggestion? SpencerT♦C 18:31, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
- Oppose. Sorry not possible under current rules. Others more notable have not been included. -Susanlesch (talk) 18:49, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
- Support. The other more notable deaths should have been included as well. Like Spencer, I think it's high time we find some way of including deaths of major figures. Pruneautalk 22:50, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
- Agree it would be high time to allow deaths to appear, but, with respect, this is not when to start. Where is a change in rules best discussed? -Susanlesch (talk)
- Main discussion and suggestion is here: Template talk:In the news#Dispute. Note: It's somewhat down the link. SpencerT♦C 00:57, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
- Agree it would be high time to allow deaths to appear, but, with respect, this is not when to start. Where is a change in rules best discussed? -Susanlesch (talk)
Airlines shutting down
I don't know if it's international, but three airlines went bankrupt this week: Aloha Airlines, ATA Airlines, and Skyline, I think. I think this has some significance; it's not every week you see three airlines go bankrupt at the same time! Especially because ATA was supposed to take the passengers originally flying Aloha back home. –The Obento Musubi (Contributions) 08:46, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
- Support - Try to construct headline that includes historic oil prices and airlines outside the USA, perhaps on a longer time scale - 50MWdoug (talk) 11:08, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
- Weak support, provided you find a good headline and a central article that has been updated enough. --Tone 15:49, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
- Note: Skybus, not Skyline. How about: Aloha Airlines, ATA Airlines, and Skybus Airlines abruptly cease operations, citing rising oil prices and a decline of business. (Link for "decline of business"?) SpencerT♦C 18:47, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
- Support if all the articles are updated. Spencer's text is excellent. Maybe "declining revenue". -Susanlesch (talk) 18:52, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
- Weak support. It would be great if we had a 2008 aviation crisis article. Maybe link "oil prices" to Oil price increases since 2003? Also, the articles on the airlines don't say anything about the decline of business; the Skybus article cites the "slowing economic environment". Pruneautalk 23:02, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
April 4
Suriname plane crash
- "Nineteen people are killed as an Antonov An-28 operated by Blue Wing Airlines crashes near Benzdorp in Suriname." AecisBrievenbus 00:14, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
- Tragic, but hardly deserving of an ITN mention. At least, not until more details emerge about the cause.--WaltCip (talk) 19:43, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
- Support Airline crashes often go up and the article seems to be in good shape. Madcoverboy (talk) 20:00, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
- Comment I think the reason commercial airline crashes often go up is because they are generally major incidents. Crashes (as opposed to more minor ground incidents) of large commercial airlines are very rare, and when they do occur, not surprisingly often involve a major loss of life. However crashes of smaller turboprop aircraft is sadly a lot less rare, more so in Africa then South America perhaps. They also don't tend to involve such a major loss of life for obvious reasons. Whether this should go up I don't know, it's closer to borderline then most aircraft crashes but I'm not opposing it either Nil Einne (talk) 20:40, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
- Support. Death of 19 people in a plane crash seems sufficiently notable to me. Which continent it's on isn't terribly relevant to deciding notability.-gadfium 23:40, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
- Actually I would argue if this were in Africa I would be even
lessmore reluctant to support it. Not because African lives matter less then anyone else but because (as I hinted at above) many African airlines have a very poor safety record so crashes are far too common. (Obviously if this were an African airline but one of the large ones with a good safety record like South African Airways, that would be a different matter). But since this is in South America that's not really relevant. There is definite relevance to the location when it affects the frequency, when deciding notability. For example the death of 5 people in a terrorist attack in Iraq or Afghanistan is sadly not usually noteable enough for ITN barring other factors since it's far too common there. A terrorist attack killing 5 people in the US, UK, Australia, Singapore, Japan, South Africa, Brazil and many other countries would probably be noteable enough for ITN because it's something that's a lot rarer there. Nil Einne (talk) 05:13, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
- Actually I would argue if this were in Africa I would be even
- Although I'm afraid this doesn't add much, I am also neutral, perhaps leaning towards no as most people had not previously heard of Blue Wing Airlines and it has been largely overshadowed by other events in most media, i.e. Zimbabwe and the Olympic torch/protests/potential boycotts. Random89 06:57, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
- Oppose. Plane crashes are very sad, but they happen often. I've found 12 crashes in 2007 with over 20 fatalities each (including one helicopter crash and two military plane crashes): Adam Air 574 (102 fatalities), Africa One (51), Air Moorea 1121 (20), Atlazjet 4203 (57), Balad crash (34), Garuda Indonesia 200 (22), Kenya Airways 507 (114), One-Two GO 269 (90), PMTAir 241 (22), Lungi helicopter crash (22), Shatoy crash (20), TAM 3054 (199). There could be more that I missed.
- I doubt we listed all of those on ITN and I think that having a plane crash once a month would be too much. Unfortunately, the Blue Wing Airlines crash isn't unusual enough. Pruneautalk 08:43, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
April 3
Jules Verne docking
- Jules Verne, the first European Automated Transfer Vehicle, successfully performs a fully automated docking with the International Space Station.82.120.248.194 (talk) 17:26, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
- Wasn't this on ITN when the shuttle was launched? I think one mention is enough. --Tone 17:23, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
- This is the first fully automated rendezvous of two spacecraft by optical means. And it's done by Europeans. Right, who cares ? 82.120.248.194 (talk) 17:26, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
Oppose. Sorry I wish this could be but Jules Verne's launch was on the main page. -Susanlesch (talk) 19:02, 3 April 2008 (UTC)- Striking oppose per Aecis below (maybe eventually space rendezvous will mention this?). I haven't read enough to support but space is good and this has nice free image. -Susanlesch (talk) 20:09, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
- Oppose mentioned already. SpencerT♦C 20:37, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
- Support. While the launch has been mentioned, the docking is an entirely different affair, which is in many ways much more complicated. I believe the launch shouldn't have been mentioned, because the docking is much more special.
- Support. I'm not aware of any rule saying a subject can only appear once. It's common to include both launchings and landings of a spacecraft, for example. However, since a Soyuz is due to launch fairly soon, I'd be happy for this to be included and then replaced with the Soyuz launch when it happens.-gadfium 08:22, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
- Support. The article says that it was the world's first fully automated docking maneuver to the space station. That's ITN-worthy, in fact much more than the n-th launch or landing of established spacecrafts. MikeZ (talk) 11:28, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
- Support. This is actually very big news, it's a Space First! Joe Davison 14:19, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
- Support. If it had been just another docking, yes, just mentioning the launch would have been enough. But the first fully automated space rendezvous is a major development, warranting a separate entry. AecisBrievenbus 16:25, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
- Support: same argument - I think the first automated RV is worth mention. Habbit (talk) 17:02, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
Hrvoje Čustić
"Croatian footballer Hrvoje Čustić of NK Zadar dies after colliding with a concrete wall during the First Football League match against HNK Cibalia." AecisBrievenbus 16:20, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
- Sad story. There is one more story from Croatia, general Ivan Korade comitted suicide after being besieged by the police. But I don't know if any of those two stories would fit on ITN. --Tone 17:23, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
- No, it doesn't, unfortuantely. Oppose --Plasma Twa 2 (talk) 18:15, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
- Oppose. The Italian and Scottish? footballers that died were not added. Neither was the American football player who was murdered. Not to mention other high profile celebs and important scientists not added. -CWY2190(talk • contributions) 20:06, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
- No, it doesn't, unfortuantely. Oppose --Plasma Twa 2 (talk) 18:15, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
Ledra Street
- Greek and Turkish Cypriots open a crossing at Ledra Street, a main shopping street in Cyprus' divided capital Nicosia that has come to symbolize the island's ethnic partition.--Camptown (talk) 10:58, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
- I would prefer "Greek and Turkish Cypriots open a crossing at Ledra Street, a main shopping street in Cyprus' divided capital Nicosia." since the bit about symbolizing partition is not
referencedmentioned in the article. Narayanese (talk) 11:09, 3 April 2008 (UTC)- Support. --Tone 11:26, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
- How about: Greek and Turkish Cypriots open a crossing at Ledra Street (pictured), a main shopping street in Cyprus' divided capital Nicosia. --Camptown (talk) 12:48, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
- Support I've fixed a typo (devided). Narayanese (talk) 12:53, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
Adding. The picture is too detailed so it's unclear in low resolution. --Tone 16:16, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
The [[Cyprus|Greek]] ... Cypriots link seems redundant, mentioning cypriot people twice.Nevermind, I get it now. SpencerT♦C 20:40, 3 April 2008 (UTC)- Would it not be better to mention that it closed within hours of opening? weburiedoursecretsinthegarden 08:42, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
- Nah, it opened again. Narayanese (talk) 09:38, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
- Would it not be better to mention that it closed within hours of opening? weburiedoursecretsinthegarden 08:42, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
April 2
2008 NATO Summit
In Bucharest, Romania, in 2-4 April 2008 is held the 20th NATO Summit. Because this is an very important event, I suggenst to be added into the news template on main page. Paulnasca (talk) 10:49, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
- The main news from the NATO summit appears to be that NATO will invite Albania and Croatia to join the organisation. Ukraine, Georgia and Macedonia will not be invited, Ukraine and Georgia amidst a dispute with Russia, Macedonia amidst a naming dispute with Greece. I suggest using this hook for an ITN blurb. AecisBrievenbus 10:53, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
- Proposed blurb: "At its summit in Bucharest, NATO invites Albania and Croatia to join the alliance." AecisBrievenbus 11:17, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
I believe the more interesting news is the Greek veto on Macedonia than a rather expected invitation for Albania and Croatia. Please expand. --Avala (talk) 19:58, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
Botswana elections
- Botswana present Seretse Khama Ian Khama is officially sworn in as the sixth President of Botswana in an inauguration ceremony in the capital, Gaberone. Ian Khama is the son of Seretse Khama; Botswana's first president. 86.148.80.246 (talk) 19:54, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
- Ian Khama is sworn in as the sixth President of Botswana in Gaberone.
- Support Didn't see the election, but new head of state is obviously notable. Sorta wish we had a list of these elections every year or something so we could be thorough. Madcoverboy (talk) 22:43, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
- We do: Electoral calendar 2008. For the past, we've got Electoral calendar 2004, Electoral calendar 2005, Electoral calendar 2006 and Electoral calendar 2007, and for next year we've got Electoral calendar 2009. AecisBrievenbus 23:26, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
- Support. Is adding the capital absolutely necessary? SpencerT♦C 02:29, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
Zimbabwean elections
- Zimbabwe president Robert Mugabe's party is defeated by the opposition in the general election. 86.145.106.161 (talk) 16:03, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
- Morgan Tsvangirai and the Movement for Democratic Change defeats Robert Mugabe and the ZANU-PF in the Zimbabean presidential and parliamentary elections.
- Endorse with the addition of however, Mugabe refuses to leave office without a fight, or words to that effect --Hadseys ChatContribs 17:31, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
- Support but election article needs to be linked and also needs cleanup. --Lemmey (talk) 17:43, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
- Support with greater context for both presidential and parliamentarian elections. Madcoverboy (talk) 18:41, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
- Comment, isn't the electoral result unclear? weburiedoursecretsinthegarden 19:24, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
- Comment/ Hang on There are no official presidential results yet, wait for that then bundle it with the parliamentary results and put it up. The blurb above is (as of now) simply untrue. Random89 20:09, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
- Support after final election results. SpencerT♦C 02:33, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
- Agree with Random et al, let's wait a bit longer and see what happens. The parliamentary victory is definitely significant but it's only part of the picture and it would be good if we could put the whole picture rather then saying no one knows for the rest of it Nil Einne (talk) 06:28, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
- Comment, Movement for Democratic Change one the legislature by a majority (officially) but no official word on the Presidency. gren グレン 04:31, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
- Support provided certain modifications: I think that the parliamentary victory is noteworthy, especially considering the possibility (not certainty!) that the elections were rigged and the opposition won anyway. Thus I think that we should say something resembling:
- The Movement for Democratic Change secures a majority of seats in the Zimbabwean parliamentary election, defeating current President Robert Mugabe's ZANU-PF. Results in the presidential election remain unclear. Lockesdonkey (talk) 05:13, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
- Support provided certain modifications: I think that the parliamentary victory is noteworthy, especially considering the possibility (not certainty!) that the elections were rigged and the opposition won anyway. Thus I think that we should say something resembling:
- Comment, Movement for Democratic Change one the legislature by a majority (officially) but no official word on the Presidency. gren グレン 04:31, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
- Support posting parliamentary results for now. We don't know how long it's going to take the presidential results to get sorted out, but we can at least post some news in the interim. Lovelac7 14:42, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
Adding. --Tone 16:16, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
- Comment, The MDC didn't really secure a majority of seats, haven taken 99/210. The opposition (in general, including the breakaway faction of the MDC) got a majority over ZANU-PF. Random89 21:40, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
Ahern resignation
- Irish Prime Minister Bertie Ahern has announced he is to resign on May 6th, following allegations of corruption. Yorkshiresky (talk) 10:18, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
- Support, although I would use the present tense "announces" instead of "has announced". Also, I wonder whether it would be better to say Taoiseach than Prime Minister. The term Taoiseach is used uniformly in Ireland, but many non-Irish people may not know the term. NoIdeaNick (talk) 11:01, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
- Support, using prime minister would probably cause less confusion (if it is acceptable to use this term). --Tone 11:29, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
- Support. How about: Irish Prime Minister Bertie Ahern (pictured) announces his resignation, following allegations of corruption. --Camptown (talk) 11:35, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
- Comment - Yes, present tense would be better. I redirected Prime Minister to Taoiseach, but I have no preference as to which one is used. Yorkshiresky (talk) 11:33, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
- Support. I don't like the flow of that sentence/headline. The comma gives me a feeling of stumbling. __meco (talk) 12:25, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
How about:
- Amidst allegations of corruption, Irish Prime Minister Bertie Ahern announces his resignation, effective May 6th. -- Grant.Alpaugh 12:42, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
- How about simply removing the offensive comma: Irish Prime Minister Bertie Ahern (pictured) announces his resignation following allegations of corruption. __meco (talk) 15:20, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
- Support Dennisc24 (talk) 17:41, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
- Support --Lemmey (talk) 17:43, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
- Support. weburiedoursecretsinthegarden 19:23, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
April 1
Shall we consider adding a humorous made up or humorous real event in this section just for today? DYK already has some amusing but real items. --Tone 16:14, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
- If its a madeup event it should include Wikipedia.
- 'Wikipedia starts wiki-Tube: videos anyone can edit'
- 'Wikipedia starts O'wiki-bama: change anyone can edit'
--Lemmey (talk) 16:56, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
- Hm, what about: Wikipedia introduces a new feature, video articles and is looking for volunteers to present articles in front of the camera. Apply now! --Tone 17:17, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
- I love it. --Plasma Twa 2 (talk) 17:33, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
- I like it, but it might have been more useful about 15 hours ago. -CWY2190(talk • contributions) 17:37, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
- Support if you want to go for it for 8 hours or so. I for one missed the plan. -Susanlesch (talk) 17:52, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
- I like it, but it might have been more useful about 15 hours ago. -CWY2190(talk • contributions) 17:37, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
- I love it. --Plasma Twa 2 (talk) 17:33, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
- Adding for a couple of hours, let's see the effect... (always possible to revert) --Tone 17:54, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
Awww...you guys should have had it throughout the day but I think its too late now. --→ Ãlways Ãhëad (talk) 03:23, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
- Well, it stayed on the Main page for 5 minutes. BTW, I am going to archive March because none of the recent proposals does not seem to have enough support and the others are just too old now. --Tone 06:59, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
- Too old? How about the Zimbabwean elections? People are still counting the votes. --74.13.125.194 (talk) 07:58, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
- Right, missed this one... Anyway, we've already agreed that this goes on as soon as the results are known (we will see the wording then). --Tone 11:29, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
- Too old? How about the Zimbabwean elections? People are still counting the votes. --74.13.125.194 (talk) 07:58, 2 April 2008 (UTC)