*[[Australian cricket team|Australian]] [[cricket|cricketer]] '''[[Shane Warne]]''' becomes [[List_of_Test_cricket_records#Most_career_wickets|the first to take 700]] [[test cricket|test]] [[wicket]]s in his final test at the [[Melbourne Cricket Ground]].
*[[Australian cricket team|Australian]] [[cricket|cricketer]] '''[[Shane Warne]]''' becomes [[List_of_Test_cricket_records#Most_career_wickets|the first to take 700]] [[test cricket|test]] [[wicket]]s in his final test at the [[Melbourne Cricket Ground]].
** Rather big news in cricket - for some reason the sport is over looked on Wikipedia considering its popularity in nations like India, Bangladesh and Pakistan (large population). The next closet person is still quite far back (Murali on 674).--<small>[[User:Hamedog|Hamedog]]<sub>[[User talk:Hamedog|Talk]]</sub>|<sup>[[Special:Emailuser/Hamedog|@]]</sup></small> 05:46, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
** Rather big news in cricket - for some reason the sport is over looked on Wikipedia considering its popularity in nations like India, Bangladesh and Pakistan (large population). The next closet person is still quite far back (Murali on 674).--<small>[[User:Hamedog|Hamedog]]<sub>[[User talk:Hamedog|Talk]]</sub>|<sup>[[Special:Emailuser/Hamedog|@]]</sup></small> 05:46, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
***Cricket has been a big thing on ITN lately... Can't form an opinion one way or the other, I'm afraid. [[User:Grandmasterka|<font color="red">Grand</font>]][[User talk:Grandmasterka|<font color="green">master</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Grandmasterka|<font color="red">ka</font>]] 07:02, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
Rather big news in cricket - for some reason the sport is over looked on Wikipedia considering its popularity in nations like India, Bangladesh and Pakistan (large population). The next closet person is still quite far back (Murali on 674).--HamedogTalk|@ 05:46, 26 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Cricket has been a big thing on ITN lately... Can't form an opinion one way or the other, I'm afraid. Grandmasterka 07:02, 26 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I don't really think this meets our criteria for adding a death to ITN. Brown is an expertise in his field and he hasn't been in the hospital for months, but his death still not especially tragic or unexpected. I do see quite a bit of international attention, as it's a top story of al-Jazeera and covered in the Jerusalem Post, among other places. But, I still don't think this qualifies. I'm a bit on the fence though, so if someone else adds it, I won't object. -- tariqabjotu 13:58, 25 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I personally support this story's placement on the Main Page. Whether it actually meets the criteria for ITN is subject to debate, but I don't think anyone's hurt by placing this up there. The man was certainly a legend, and as Tariq stated, it would definitely be considered "international news". -- Kicking222 17:39, 25 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I wonder how his death isn't unexpected. Is that because he's old? I think he should be there, since he's one of the most well known and influential people in music. Iorek85 22:59, 25 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
His death was not at all expected. He was only told he was sick yesterday. Hell, he had a New Years Eve show planned in NYC! I don't know who removed him, but I think he should be there. But, of course, that's just one man's opinion. -- Kicking222 01:04, 26 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
This entry was put up a few days ago, but was quickly removed. For more on this, see the discussion on Template talk:In the news. AecisDancing to electro-pop like a robot from 1984. 14:00, 22 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Massive news really. For you Americans, cricket is big in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka England, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and the West Indies. Glenn McGrath is one of the best fast bowlers of all time and Shane Warne one of the best spin bowlers. Should go up.--HamedogTalk|@ 06:46, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
21 December
Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows is officially the confirmed title of Harry Potter Book 7. It was revealed on J.K. Rowling's official website this morning.
When I added this to Portal:Current Events, it was removed on the grounds that it wasn't of international significance. Sam Blacketer 22:41, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
IMHO, I'd give that a weak pass on P:CE, but a definiate no on the Main Page. The Tom 00:28, 22 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Seconded. Pretty full slate at present, and looks pretty pathetic in terms of international significance compared to what we have up there at present. The Tom 00:28, 22 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Added to the template, but without the "massive". Conscious 10:18, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
20 December
I believe it's The Independent that will open tomorrow's newspaper with the story that bears are no longer hibernating as a result of global warming. There's no entry on Portal:Current events (yet?), there's no updated article on this, but would this news be significant enough to consider adding to ITN if and when the criteria are met? AecisDancing to electro-pop like a robot from 1984. 23:30, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I think it ought to be considered, certainly, but is this journalistic speculation or is there an article published in a reputable peer-reviewed science journal to back it up? I'd be reticent to see this be posted unless the claim has been published as specified. (Even preliminary findings by scientists - i.e. not yet published findings - shouldn't go up either). Mikker(...) 00:00, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure whether it's speculation or not. I came across it during the "Tomorrow's papers" section of BBC Newsnight. We'll find out in about 8 hours time though. AecisDancing to electro-pop like a robot from 1984. 00:14, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, the article is online: [1]. I'm not that enthusiastic now: naturalists from Spain's La Fundación Oso Pardo (Brown Bear Foundation) say that bears have stopped hibernating in the mountains of northern Spain. This is based on an article in yesterday's El Pais: [2]. AecisDancing to electro-pop like a robot from 1984. 11:02, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah... let's skip this one. Mikker(...) 00:14, 22 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
19 December
Update: about 12 hours ago police in sussex arrested a second man (and are still holding the first) in connection with the murder of the five prostitutes, so this item needs updating (just changing "man" to "second man" would do it) fabiform 19:44, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Done (not by me). --PFHLai 13:23, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
A 37-year old man from Trimley has been arrested in connection with the Ipswich serial killings: [3]. Since this topic is still listed on ITN, is this development notable enough to warrant an update to the entry? AecisDancing to electro-pop like a robot from 1984. 10:32, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Only if you update an article first. --Golbez 10:35, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The article was updated about half an hour ago. AecisDancing to electro-pop like a robot from 1984. 10:39, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Done. --PFHLai 14:24, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
How does this get up but nothing about Abbas' calling for elections or the subsequent clashes? Thethinredline 19:13, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Please see #16 December. BTW, I ain't 100% happy about letting the murder case go on MainPage, but whatever on ITN must be kept current. --PFHLai 23:02, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I believe the second proposal is too long, with too many elements for ITN. The first one has potential though. AecisDancing to electro-pop like a robot from 1984. 23:57, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think this is significant enough. It might be the most prestigious award in football, but enough to warrant main page attention? I don't think so. But it's still more significant than a couple of murdered hoes in England. Also it need not be mentioned that it was his 100th game. I assume it was his 100th game for the Italian national team, or was it his 100th game in general. Thethinredline 23:51, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
(third edit conflict) Please stop referring to that entry at every single new proposal. And please, do stop calling them hoes. You're not Snoop Dogg. AecisDancing to electro-pop like a robot from 1984. 23:57, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Notes: I'm not sure Time's person of the year is notable each year, but it is this time: it's a highly unusual choice and, besides, they praise Wikipedia! (here). Secondly, this is not the sort of "update" that requires a lenghty prose addition to the relevant article - its addition to the list and a link to the article in Time is sufficient IMO. Mikker(...) 04:55, 17 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Let's avoid giving Time free advertising on our MainPage. And, IMO, their editor's POV shouldn't be posted. --PFHLai 18:32, 17 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I'd be more supportive if sth actually happens, such as holding the election, rather than just having some politician talking. --PFHLai 20:04, 16 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Why haven't we mentioned the (alleged?) shooting between Hamas and Fatah, as Palestinian PM Ismail Haniya tried to cross the border between Egypt and the Gaza Strip? The tensions within Palestine are rapidly increasing. Surely we should be making mention of this. AecisDancing to electro-pop like a robot from 1984. 21:57, 16 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Is there a wikipage about the (alleged?) shooting between Hamas and Fatah? I'd like to read that, pls. --64.229.231.116 16:25, 17 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It's now 2006 Palestinian civil skirmishes after a few pagemoves. Not that stubby now, but referencing needs work. Anyway, does anyone want to draft a headline which includes a link to this updated article ? Is there a better page, such as the page on the new elections ? -- PFHLai 22:56, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Japanese Diet passes a bill to upgrade and rename the Defense Agency as a ministry. Passer-by 06:23, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
Could you elaborate a little bit and explain why this is major international news, please ? Not everyone (okay, not me, at least) is familiar with the Japanese administration. Thanks. --PFHLai 18:36, 17 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Any move to turn the self-defense forces into proper military units, or to turn the defense agency into a proper ministry, is sensitive and controversial in East and Southeast Asian international politics. Passer-by 21:47, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
We need an updated wikiarticle or two to document the name change and the resultant uproar in nearby countries. And external newslinks on Portal:Current events. I don't mind this on ITN but we need relevant contents to be in Wikipedia first. And I think the headline needs to be more self-explanatory to cater to users of English Wikipedia not from East and Southeast Asia. --PFHLai 22:45, 17 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
To elaborate on the significance of this move, as described by Passer-by: the policy of the Japanese government prior to and during WW2 was known as gunji taikoku, military might. Quintessential in this was a mighty ministry of defense. After 1945, Japan adopted the concepts of enjo taikoku (great aid power) and minsei taikoku (civilian power). They have defined the policies of the Japanese government to this day. Part of both concepts was the abolition of the ministry of defense, which became a government agency. A move back to a full ministry is seen by many countries (China and South Korea most prominently) as the return of the gunji taikoku, the fear that Japan will again become a military aggressor to Eastern Asia. This is highly likely to play a large part in the relations between the countries on the Pacific rim. AecisDancing to electro-pop like a robot from 1984. 01:27, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Nice explanation, Aecis. Thanks. Please add this to a relevant article (if you haven't done so already). The next challenge is to work this into a concise headline to explain the significance. It would be easy if protests are documented in some wikiarticle. Then we may use "The Japan Defense Agency is upgraded as a ministry in the Japanese government, sparking protests in Countries A, B & C." or sth like this. This way, we don't need to explain. But, if no one from East and Southeast Asia care enough about this, this name change should not be on ITN. --PFHLai 14:34, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I'll see if there's an article for this. I think an article about the bill would be more appropriate than Japan Defense Agency. I'd need to know the name of the bill for that though. AecisDancing to electro-pop like a robot from 1984. 23:14, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure whether this is too U.S.-centric or not, which is why I'm proposing it here instead of putting it on the page. The reason this might be of international interest is that if Sen. Johnson, a Democrat, dies or is forced to relinquish his seat, his replacement would be chosen by the Republican governor of South Dakota. If he chooses a Republican, that would tip the balance of control back to the Republicans, and I think that possibility may make the story of international interest. However, as someone once said, "I'm smelling a lot of 'if' coming off of this plan", so I open the floor to discussion. (I'm about to go on a wikibreak, so someone else will have to put the story up if people decide they want it.) —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 15:52, 14 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Well I feel what this news event has that others don't is that this is an ongoing event. Based on something that is still up in the air, there can be huge repercussions. This unfortunate event can effectively cancel out one of the huge implications of this past November's elections. I think that Governor Rounds is to appoint a Republican, it can be a scandal comparable to the Corrupt Bargains of the 19th Century. I think that this is a developing story that can become the start of something huge but I think perhaps it's best to hold off for a short while. Stephen 18:54, 14 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I believe that this would meet criterion C of the deaths criteria, the effect on current events. I also feel that it's best to wait for further developments: there's still a possibility that Johnson lives through this, which would mean that there's no news story to write about. AecisDancing to electro-pop like a robot from 1984. 18:58, 14 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that, if he dies, it ought to go up on ITN. However, him being ill (even seriously ill) is not sufficient IMO. Mikker(...) 20:14, 14 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I would wait till a Republican successor is named, shifting the balance of power in the US Congress (if this actually happens as speculated.) IMO, Tim Johnson himself is not famous enough outside the US to get his obituary on ITN. --PFHLai 22:18, 14 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Definitely oppose this going up now, ITN is not for speculation of such relatively trivial things as death unless it's a head of state or the Pope. Oppose this being included should he die. Sen. Johnson is not particularly notable outside America and he one out of hundred Senators in a legislative body which is not even in session at the moment. Nor is it particularly notable if his death gives the Republican Party a majority in the Senate; legislative bodies change hands all the time, and unless it happens through an election of some sort i don't think it's notable, despite how much fuss it will cause, and feathers it will ruffle in Washington D.C. Also this would fail criteria 5c should the Senator die, as it does not affect international events in the slightest. If however there is a big scandal over the appointing of a Republican to fill his seat, complete with a blocking or opposing of his appointment of some sort, that might be notable because it is a first, or something. I don't know, that bridge can be crossed if it is ever gotten to. Thethinredline 23:07, 14 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Well, it looks as if he may recover, so not putting it on the page today was the right call. However, I disagree with Thethinredline's statement that his death would not affect international events: even though the President has primary control of American foreign policy, a President whose party is a minority in both houses of Congress is much weaker than a President whose party controls the Senate. Whether Johnson lives or dies could have an effect, for example, on US funding of family planning programs in Africa. That said, upon reflection I agree that unless he does die it's probably not ITN material. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 04:43, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, but even then, his death wouldn't swing control of the Senate, it would be the appointment of a Republican replacement that would do that. Because without him Democrats still have a 50-49 majority. So if he does die, nothing happens to the Senate apart from losing a member. So if he is replaced we could have "The appointment of X to the United States Senate to fill the seat of the late Ted Johnson gives control to the Republican Party" or something like that.
Anyway it's moot, as it doesn't look like he'll die anyway. Thethinredline 17:31, 16 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
If there's an updated article, I endorse putting this up. AecisDancing to electro-pop like a robot from 1984. 00:21, 13 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
This seems like too local an event to me.--Pharos 00:24, 13 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. A murderer in my hometown was linked to the deaths of 12 prostitutes in 2004, and stories like that happen every ten years! (Prospect Avenue, John E. Robinson, Wayne Court). I don't recall seeing a story about that on the main page; why throw up one on five murders in the U.K.? --KHill-LTown 01:39, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It's too local IMO. Besides, 5 is not much of a body-count as far as serial-killers go. This guy first has to be a notable serial killer before it's ITN worthy - the mere fact that there is a serial killer in GB is hardly that newsworthy. Mikker(...) 00:53, 13 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I do kinda have to point out that if notability of serial killers is determined solely by body count, Jack the Ripper wouldn't have merited a place in the section, with only five victims to his name. GeeJo(t)⁄(c) • 01:15, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Sure, I agree. Body count is only one factor - but I made seperate points (1) he has a low body count, (2) he's not a notable serial killer (only partly because of 1). Mikker(...) 01:37, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Good Lord. I'm horrified, both by the case and that I'd never heard of it. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 07:25, 13 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
This is probably the biggest international news story in Australia right now, certainly bigger than most of the other events listed in the "In The News". It's probably been mentioned before, but if the cabbage poisoning incident in the US a few months ago was considered global enough for listing on the main page, then so should this.--Phil500 (Talk / Contribs) 02:19, 14 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Two wrongs don't make a right. --Golbez 03:10, 14 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
As I recall, the tainted veggie bit and 2 other items were posted (by me) with reluctance, and they were the best available news items after several consecutive days of peace and tranquility on Earth, keeping ITN unchanged for days. This is not the case right now. I'd suggest waiting. I hope we won't have to stick this in on, say, Sunday. We should be able to report on the discovery of St. Paul's tomb or the expansion of the International Space Station soon, anyway, if that's good (major) enough for ITN. -- PFHLai 05:18, 14 December 2006 (UTC) [On second thoughts, the current ISS expansion is not that 'major'. Never mind. --PFHLai 05:52, 14 December 2006 (UTC)][reply]
Not the veggie thing again!! Mikker(...) 20:09, 14 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Given that it's listed in the international news sections of CNN, ABC, and CBS, and gets front-page coverage by the BBC and Sky, as well as prominent mentions by other national news agencies, I'd say this warrants a position more than an election in a country unrecognised by the UN or the world at large. GeeJo(t)⁄(c) • 20:38, 14 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, but IMO, it's like replacing a weak item on ITN with a even weaker item. --PFHLai 22:42, 14 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Thought I should add that I like the election bit a tad more because of its potential as a milestone event in the history of a new country if Transnistria somehow becomes a country who knows when. --PFHLai 17:04, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
So if something is on the Anglo-American news it's of international interest? Last time I checked there were 190 countries other than America and Britain. (And ABC and CBS are hardly "global"). Besides, you're making an ordinal statement, like this: the appointment of the new principal at my neighbourhood school is more ITN worthy than the what I ate for dinner. Now that's true but irrelevant - one is closer to the minimum requirements than the other, but neither passes. Transnistria's election may not be ITN worthy, but that has nothing whatsoever to do with the notability of some random veggie making some random Americans sick. Mikker(...) 01:27, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I think it is certainly of international interest, even if it's not the biggest event currently on ITN (I don't think it's the most trivial either, however). I personally don't think it's a weaker item replacing a weak item (see Google News results from around the world). Thus, it has been added. For what it's worth, I spent so much time trying to word the item that I had not see PFHLai's post before adding it. I was unsure whether to mention that the victims were prostitutes, but I decided to add that since it is the common link, and thus the fact is not used to degrade the subjects. -- tariqabjotu 23:13, 14 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
To be honest, I'm a bit annoyed that this has been posted. Firstly, several people have expressed the opinion that this is too local for ITN and you've not really addressed these concerns (Google news searches news sources in English which are printed throughout the world - mainly through syndication. Hardly evidence that it's of global interest. Is this headline news in Russia? China? France? Germany? Brazil? Spain? Libya?). Secondly, this yet again confirms my view that there is sometimes distinct bias at ITN - if these murders had happened, say, in South Africa or Nepal, would it have been put on ITN? No, of course not. Yes, sometimes trivial international stories go up (Transnistria election etc.) but that's hardly a reason to put more trivial American and British stories up. Mikker(...) 01:53, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I think I have addressed the concerns of worldwide notability; even though some news organizations may just carry the story via syndication, the very inclusion indicates they believe the event is of importance to their readers. Also, note that several have endorsed adding this item. Regardless, I think your problem is not with the dynamics of Wikipedia, but the dynamics of the world. You may be right that a similar event in Africa or Central Asia may not receive as much international attention, but that's not Wikipedia's fault. -- tariqabjotu 02:19, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Hmmm... maybe my bias is creeping in here (I identify with the 3rd world and I get pretty angry when we're treated unfairly) but I honestly can't see how this is ITN worthy. The problem, as I see it, is this: you are using a Google news search as evidence that this is a story of global interest but that is simply not sufficient. Firstly, the link you provided searched only English and Google news hardly includes a representative sample of worldwide news organisations. There are thousands of America- and Euro-centric English news websites that carry the story, but that doesn't mean the rest of the world cares. Perhaps they do, but I'm yet to see evidence of this. Honestly, 5 people being killed is not nearly as important as, say, 1,128 children being killed in South Africa last year. Yet this last story wouldn't have a snowball's chance of hell here... Mikker(...) 03:17, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
When I look at Google news, I don't look at how many results appear, as often times it could be tons of newspapers from one country or locality. Instead, I look at the diversity of places represented; with the story of the murders in England, there are several articles from around the world listed (including a non-syndicated (syndicated) article from South Africa). -- tariqabjotu 03:26, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
SA is Anglophone and has close ties to Britain, so that hardly means much. (I, by the way, am rather interested in the story). In any case, you might have a point - I still just don't think it's worthy of ITN. But I've said what I wanted to say, if others don't agree with me then I'll drop it. Mikker(...) 03:39, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Newspapers around the world have to be filled up with some news contents every day even when we have relative peace and tranquility on Earth. The best available news item may be this UK murder case. And sensationalism sells newspapers (and tabloids), so does a good story like a suspected serial killer on the loose. I think this is why this news got international exposure. Is this really significant news ? I don't think so. I don't even think we can say that all five murders were committed by the same person (/group of people). I am a little disappointed that the discovery of the dead bodies belonging to a few no-names made it to MainPage, but the discovery of a tomb belonging to a historical and biblical figure in Paul of Tarsus didn't get too much of an update into his article. -- PFHLai 17:04, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I'm surprised that this was put up. It seems much too local and unnotable to me. Maybe other countries have reported on it, but I didn't very much about it on the Dutch news. In fact, it isn't even at the bottom of the NU.nl homepage, which is the most-visited news site of our country (and voted to be the best site of the year in the news category by a large margin). This news is also way out of place among Pinochet, the extinction of an important animal, and a genocide conviction. Let's just face it: these things happen. So incredibly often. Even if many agencies report this, it still isn't very notable. functionmsikma(user:UserPage, talk:TalkPage):Void 13:45, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It's been on the Dutch news (NOS and RTL), and it has received heavy coverage in Germany, France and Italy. These murders are not only covered in Anglophonic countries. AecisDancing to electro-pop like a robot from 1984. 13:54, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It's been on the news, but there is a lot more on the news that is not worthy of being reported on. This particular event was not reported enough for me to believe that it is of any notability. functionmsikma(user:UserPage, talk:TalkPage):Void 15:48, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
My reply was merely in response to your statement that "I didn't [see? hear?] very much about it on the Dutch news." It was reported on Dutch news. My reference to Anglophonic countries was in response to the above discussion. Whether it meets your criteria for notability or not is entirely up to you. AecisDancing to electro-pop like a robot from 1984. 18:58, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Did you even read my previous message? I said that A LOT of things make the Dutch news. Some news reports have one humorous topic per news report, like the prominent RTL 4. Just because it made the news doesn't mean it's notable. Tell me, please, how you can POSSIBLY BELIEVE that something as COMMON as this is notable? Pinochet dies only once. A genocide trial doesn't take place very often. But a murder investigation? Puh-lease. We've got millions of them every year. Serial killers? We've got those too. Surely, you can't count the amount of serial killers that are in US prison at the moment with 10 fingers. There is nothing special about this. Every now and then, things like this do get reported, but that doesn't make them anymore notable; usually, there's something slightly different about it that causes it to make the news. But you cannot, with common sense, acknowledge that this is what makes it a worldwide notable event. Do you follow ITN? Do you know what kind of stories appear on it? If so, then do you honestly believe that a semi-common murder investigation like this one should be up here among things such as the resignation of the UN secretary general? That's my question which I hope you'll answer: do you, with your common sense, really believe that this even fits in at all? functionmsikma(user:UserPage, talk:TalkPage):Void 14:20, 16 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Please calm down. Writing in caps lock doesn't make your arguments any stronger, and wikipedia is not a chat room. Yes, simply receiving a large amount of media attention is enough to make something notable. Because there is a difference between notability and relevance. This case has received a large amount of attention, which automatically makes it notable. Whether the case warranted such attention does not matter. Children get murdered all the time, but still Marc Dutroux stands out in Belgium. People get kidnapped all the time, still Natalee Holloway stands out. Innocent people get killed all the time, still Amadou Diallo stands out. AecisDancing to electro-pop like a robot from 1984. 22:53, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I'm disturbed that some people this that this is of little importantance. Five murders by a single person in the space of a month is something that happens extremely infrequently in the UK. God what a world we live in if people elsewhere think it's routine. Jooler 14:07, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Of course it's common. Open your eyes. 10,000 people get killed by handguns in the US every year. In the Netherlands, a country with a crime rate comparable to that of the UK, there are four murders every week. This event in the UK has absolutely no reason to be in this section, yet admins ignore this because of some reason. functionmsikma(user:UserPage, talk:TalkPage):Void 15:48, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Apples and Oranges. Tell me about the last serial killer of five or more victims in Holland? Jooler
And rightly so. This is of very little importance, be it actual or editorial.--SidiLemine 18:14, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
You know what's apples and oranges? A simple murder investigation (with no actual conclusion whatsoever; it simply states that AN INVESTIGATION is ongoing) being among the likes of Pinochet's death and a genocide conviction. Guys, take a good look. This is an investigation that's been started. What's the news here? Sure, it was reported on, but these sort of things normally don't reach ITN unless there is something more going on. Such as someone being arrested. Or someone being convicted. Or crucial evidence being found. There is nothing of importance going on. Furthermore, you should stop having your eyes closed and accept the fact that there are, in fact, many more serial killers around in this world. Many do more heinous crimes than this English fellow did. And it happens all the damn time, whether here in the western world or in South Africa. This is common. There is absolutely no reason to believe that it is not. functionmsikma(user:UserPage, talk:TalkPage):Void 10:47, 16 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Your comparison was, to use an English language idiom, comparing Apples and oranges). My eyes are far from closed, I've edited articles about murder, crime and punishment. It may be common place for people to go around killing large numbers of people in South Africa but it most certainly isn't in the UK. And that's the point that makes it newsworthy! The last serial killer who had as large or greater tally of victims (discounting spree killers like the Hungerford and Dunblane massacres) in the UK that I can think of was Harold Shipman a doctor who killed over 170 of his patients and who was single-handedly responsible for increasing the murder rate for one year by 20%. A very unusual case. Before that Fred West whose bodies lay hidden under the floorboards and in the garden for 20 years before discovery in 1994. The last similar serial killer case that I'm aware of was the Yorkshire Ripper 25-30 years ago. The key feature or event in this case that makes it internationally newsworthy is the the large number of victims killed within the span of a month and the subsequent discovery of the bodies. It is current. If another body was found tommorow, would it then warrent inclusion in your opinion? ?, Or only if the victim count increased to 10 or 20 or 50? Or are you saying only when someone was arrested? Any info on the last similar Dutch serial killer yet? Jooler 18:18, 16 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I'd prefer to wait till it's confirmed that there is a serial killer before featuring this on MainPage, but I now support the inclusion of this murder case in ITN. The subject matter aside, the media has probably turned this case into an internationally notable news item. --PFHLai 20:12, 16 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
So you agree that it's okay to put up an inconclusive story? Like I said, there's an investigation ongoing, but there is no other conclusion than that. Perhaps this should be a news item when someone gets caught or convicted, but even that's doubtful. Concerning your point that it's not common in the UK, I say that you're either pushing POV onto ITN by making the UK more important than other nations (we've had our share of terrible and internationally reported murders in the Netherlands which didn't make ITN) or you're simply ignoring the fact that the only thing different about this is the fact the police believe it's the work of a serial killer. But like already mentioned, this is not known yet, as the investigation is ongoing and nobody has even been arrested. There are plenty of murders in the UK, and although this is a bizarre one, it shouldn't be up here, at least until it gets some kind of conclusive end.
Also, you ignored my argument that this type of news does not fit in with the usual ITN entries, such as Kofi Annan's term ending and Pinochet dying. Do you even have any sort of defence against this argument? Because I find it pretty important. This seems like nothing but UK bias to me, since apparently a serial killer is important enough to be ranked among milestone internationally important events if he's from the UK. functionmsikma(user:UserPage, talk:TalkPage):Void 10:05, 17 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
You who, Msikma? Jooler or PFHLai? --64.229.231.116 16:23, 17 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Msikma, I agree that this type of news does not fit in with the usual ITN entries. I now support the inclusion of this murder case in ITN as, IMO, the media has turned this case into an internationally notable news item. --PFHLai 18:40, 17 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
More reason to include this case: "The Association of Chief Police Officers say the number of officers deployed from forces outside Suffolk, under the control of the Police National Information and Co-ordination Centre, was the biggest ever for a murder inquiry. In total 36 forces have sent 412 detectives, uniformed officers and police staff."(BBC) This asserts notability. --PFHLai 14:39, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Well then include that kind of reasoning in the ITN entry!! This is what you need to assert notability. Just saying "an investigation has started" is not sufficient. But the police starting the biggest murder investigation ever is. Jeez. I support something as notable as the biggest inquiry the UK police has ever made, if the media report on it, but if this fact were not true or not known, then I wouldn't support it. And I don't think you would, either. Mentioning this kind of stuff pre-emptively could save us all a whole big load of time, folks. functionmsikma(user:UserPage, talk:TalkPage):Void 12:55, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Well, it wasn't the biggest ever UK murder inquiry yet at the time this got on MainPage.... and this point is still not mentioned in the article yet (I can't find it), so this can't be mentioned on ITN. (As I am not too familiar with the case, I'd rather not edit that article, apart from copyediting and adding templates, etc. Everyone is encouraged to add this point to the article. Thanks.) --PFHLai 06:01, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The police have linked all of the cases. It is almost certainly the work of one person. Jooler 19:18, 17 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Or a small group of people. --64.229.226.101 20:35, 17 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps the article could be worked on somewhat, as currently it could be a bit confusing to folks unfamiliar with Hong Kong politics. Thanks.--Pharos 00:32, 13 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Added, although I found a higher resolution image from NASA. -- tariqabjotu 04:05, 10 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Actually I would suggest Image:Christer Fuglesang.jpgChrister Fuglesang is the better image to have. While the launch of the shuttle may be the main event, a shuttle launch is a shuttle launch. There's nothing particularly unique about the shuttle launch picture, a lot of people probably would have seen one before. On the other hand, a lot of people wouldn't have seen Christer Fuglesang and since we do mention him... Nil Einne 21:20, 10 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, good point. I have changed the picture. -- tariqabjotu 05:51, 11 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Please sign your comments. And please hold off on putting things on here til they actually happen. --Golbez 21:51, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The ITN candidates do not really need to be signed; some people sign them, while others do not. Looking at the contributions of the person who added this, I believe the editor is familiar with signing comments, but just didn't think it was necessary here. -- tariqabjotu 23:23, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Endorse. Space shuttle launches are usually notable, the project (ISS) is notable, and this should fly well with us geeks ;) AecisDancing to electro-pop like a robot from 1984. 16:53, 9 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Needs a little more updating, but should be do-able soon. --PFHLai 00:05, 7 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The vote tallying is finally complete. Should this be on ITN yet? --199.71.174.100 21:02, 10 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Didn't we already mention him a while back? I remember because I'm the one who found and added the picture (which was never used on the main page :-P) Nil Einne 21:14, 10 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The suggested image is tagged as fair use and thus not suitable for use in the ITN section due to copyright limitations. --Allen3talk 14:50, 6 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Fiji now has a new President in Bainimarama, and an interim PM in Jona Senilagakali. The 2006 Fijian coup d'état article needs to be updated before this appears on MainPage, though. Does anyone want to draft a new headline for ITN ? -- PFHLai 00:05, 7 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The women's tournament is 2+ weeks old, so I'll pass. Great photos and nice tables in the men's tournament's page, but it lacks descriptive prose on the games (Same problem with 2006 Davis Cup below) and much of the current text (on the tournament format) is in the future tense. So, I'll pass, too, for the time being. -- PFHLai 08:17, 5 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Fijian troops take over the headquarters of the armed police division, occupy the main police station in Suva, and surround a police academy in an escalation of the 2006 Fijian coup plot.
Posted a simpler version. -- PFHLai 09:03, 4 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Former Chilean President Augusto Pinochet had suffered a heart attack and is in critical but stable condition in Santiago's Military Hospital.
Not sure his current health condition is notable enough for wikipedia. I do believe that his death would meet the criteria for deaths on ITN though. AecisDancing to electro-pop like a robot from 1984. 16:28, 3 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
From what I've heard in the Chilean press, his situation is life-threatening. Last rites had been administered by a Catholic priest, and he is also suffering from pulmonary edema. Dr. Juan Ignacio Vergara from the Military Hospital emphasized the potentially fatal situation the former president is in. The government spokesman, Ricardo Lagos (Jr), is already talking about whether Pinochet should be given a state funeral. Marmaduque 17:08, 3 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
We had Castro going into surgery, so why not this?--HamedogTalk|@ 02:39, 4 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Well Castro was/is the leader of Cuba for decades. Augusto Pinochet is a controversial figure and his death may affect world affairs sufficient to warrant inclusion in ITN but I'm skeptical if his current situation is enough. If it's true he's near death them IMHO we just wait. If he survives with no immediete changes then I doubt it will be sufficient enough on world affairs Nil Einne 08:43, 4 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Also, Pinochet is 91. It's not as if his death would surprise anybody. He meets none of the criteria of ITN#5. -- Kicking222 13:46, 4 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
He wouldn't meet criteria A (in a high ranking office of power at the time of death) and B (a key figure in their field of expertise, and died unexpectedly or tragically), but he might meet criterion C (a major international impact that affects current events). Time will tell. AecisDancing to electro-pop like a robot from 1984. 13:59, 4 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, IMO, his dying while his trials are still on-going would meet criterion C, though it's not really that international. Pinochet is such a notable figure in history (My POV?) that I might be bold and post his death on ITN, anyway. --PFHLai 18:36, 4 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think just holding a large convention is enough for ITN. In August 2006, the International Astronomical Union conference didn't get on ITN till the announcement of the re-definition of the term "planet". What is on deck from the ITU ? BTW, please expand the stubby ITU Telecom World 2006 page. --PFHLai 09:37, 4 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Unfortunately, this appears to be a story of only Canadian interest. -- tariqabjotu 00:49, 3 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It's nearly as important as a major election - Dion will be the new Leader of the Opposition and will be the main challenger of Stephen Harper for PM at the next election, likely within 6 months. Radagast 00:51, 3 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Well, let's write it in a way that explains the importance to non-Canadians:
I'm not sure there's really an updated article for this, but shouldn't ITN pay attention to the highly controversial state visit of Pope Benedict XVI to Turkey? AecisDancing to electro-pop like a robot from 1984. 23:47, 30 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Greg Page leaves the children's band The Wiggles after 15 years of performances, due to chronic illness. JRHorse 22:41, 30 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think this makes the cut... Look at what it would replace: the Nepalese treaty ending a decade long civil war. NN, IMO. Mikker(...) 22:44, 30 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
high-casualty event and big military confrontation --TheFEARgod (Ч) 15:33, 30 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
This is nb enough for ITN but the article still needs some more work... Mikker(...) 20:24, 30 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Article is stub-size, putting it ITN would contribute to its enlargement --TheFEARgod (Ч) 20:42, 30 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
As long as an article covers all the bases and is solid, I don't think the length really matters. —Centrx→talk • 00:05, 1 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I think the article is good enough for ITN, so I endorse putting this up. AecisDancing to electro-pop like a robot from 1984. 00:08, 1 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
In the news toolbox_(cropped).jpg)
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Done. Aecis Dancing to electro-pop like a robot from 1984. 21:48, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
