Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ice Hockey

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Cory Schneider

An anonymous user has tagged Cory Schneider for deletion, based on "notability." However, I don't really know what to do about it, because it does not seem to be an AFD. I don't really know what to do about this; any help? Skudrafan1 22:50, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Fixed it, Schneider is notable. --Krm500 23:07, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

A prod tag is a proposed deletion. If it is left intact for five days, an admin may delete it as an uncontroversial deletion. If you disagree with a prod request, you may remove the tag for any, or no, reason. At that point, the user who prodded the article may choose to take it to AfD, or drop the issue. Once a prod tag has been removed from an article, it cannot be readded. Resolute 23:09, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, guys. Skudrafan1 23:28, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Schneider is an up-and-coming US goalie. I saw him play in the 2006 World Junior competition (Vancouver, BC). He may not be 'notable' to the general public, but he's definitely one of the hottest up and coming goalie prospects. I think you'll see him in the NHL in the next 3-5 years. Will he be the next Roberto Luongo or Martin Brodeur? I doubt it. But he'll be an NHLer here soon enough. Klinean 01:54, 13 April 2007

Team abbreviations template

I've finally picked my project to chart the various lists of NHL players (see List of NHL players: B - any help anyone wants to offer would be appreciated), and for sake of simplicity in listing and linking team names, I have created the following template: {{NHLteamabbr}}

If anyone else can think of a list or situation where a need to show all 50 current and former team names would exist, or if I missed any teams/have an incorrect abbreviation, it would be appreciated. A decent abbreviation to distinguish the original Senators from the current team currently eludes me. Resolute 02:15, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Have these abbreviations been used anywhere? I don't recall seeing MNS for example. Otherwise, this seems to be "original research" and not appropriate for an encyclopedia/Wikipedia. I see what you're doing now. I'm not sure I like the idea of creating non-standard abbreviations. In cases where standard abbreviations could refer to more than one team (Minn for North Stars or Wild, Ott for the two incarnations of the Senators), most often historical time period will differentiate. In ambiguous situations, a footnote would seem better than idiosyncratic abbreviations. Does the NHL or a book on the history of the NHL use an abbreviation, so that they would be in wider use than here? - Cafemusique 12:49, 2 March 2007 (UTC) revised 12:56

For the most part, the abbreviations are standard abbreviations used presently, or historically, across the league. For current cities with previous teams, I simply added the first letter of the nickname for the previous teams. The Ottawa Senators situation is obviously a challenge. MNS for the Minnesota North Stars was simply the most convienent abbreviation I could come up with. It looked better to me than MinN or MinNS. I had thought of simply letting historical period differentiate, however unless people know of the histories behind the teams, it may be more difficult for them to determine which Min is being referred to. Resolute 15:16, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

for the first Ottawa Senators, why don't you put Ottawa Silver Seven or Ottawa Hockey Club ? TaraO 18:41, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Because they were known as the Ottawa Senators at the time they were in the NHL. Resolute 20:03, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

There are a few notes I'd like to mention: the two Sens incarnations do not overlap, so when referring to a player as being a Senator, it should be unambiguous to which Sens it is (indeed NHL sources do not differentiate the two). Same thing with Pirate and Penguin players, as well as Quakers and Flyers players, Bulldogs and Nordiques players, and Eagles and Blues players (all of which have in common, of course, is that the Original Six era straddled the two teams). There might be minor confusion to as to players who played on both the Rockies and Avalanche, or the North Stars and Wild, or Flames and Thrashers. There are a few other unconventional abbreviations used: the Hartford Whalers used "HFD" in every NHL source I've seen, "CBJ" has been used more than "CLB" for the Columbus Blue Jackets (especially in the media and the team logo), and "CAL" usually refers to the Calgary Flames and not the California Golden Seals (according to NHL sources, which usually used "OAK"). Using "BYK" for the Brooklyn Americans is just esoteric, as even NHL sources used "NYA" or "BRO" during that one year. In a bit of excessiveness, I've also seen "NJD", "WSH", "NSH", and "TBY" used for the Devils, Caps, Preds, and Lightning, repectively. Then there's the aberration that also, in some sources, referred to the Isles as "LI". kelvSYC 02:35, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Guideline for the offseason?

Is there any guidelines for the current roster section on team pages during the offseason? Should players be on the current roster until they sign with a new team (if they're free agents)? Or should all players without a contract be removed? --Krm500 17:43, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't think there's a guideline for this. The pratice has been at Wikipedia, to leave free agents with last contractual team, until & if they signed with a new team. You could propose a 'free agent' guideline and seek your peers opinons on it. GoodDay 18:37, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Yeah usually we just tend to leave them there till the season starts. If they haven't been signed by then we remove them. But there isn't any set guideline. That's just sorta how it happens. --DJSasso 18:39, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Okey, thanks. --Krm500 21:30, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

List of NHL Draft Busts

Well, I finally decided to give the List of NHL Draft Busts article another shot at life on Wikipedia. I decided to delve into more depth as to the definition of a bust, the profile of the busts, and a place to put players that could become busts for whatever reason that you see. This, I feel, is much worthier of a Wikipedia article than the last article I did on the subject.

So if you have some spare time on your hands, critique the article for me. If you do so, thanks for the help. Hossmann 14:17, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

I would suggest removing the section on potential draft busts. That will cause the article to get shot down in a hurry per WP:CRYSTAL. The most important part of this article will have to be sourcing. If there are reliable sources that argue such players are busts, it should be alright. Lacking sources, it will fall afoul of Wikipedia's original research and point of view policies. Resolute 14:32, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Done. Hossmann 17:07, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

New article: Esso Women's Nationals

I'm surprised that there is no article on the Canadian senior women's ice hockey championships, the Esso Women's Nationals, or its trophy, the Abby Hoffman Cup. I've made an article on the former, but it's way below any real standard. Can someone with better knowledge of Canadian women's hockey add in some details, as well as the teams representing each province? (I can easily tell if an NWHL or WWHL team represents a province, but for the others...)

I also have to point out the articles on the NWHL and WWHL are far too inaccurate: while it's true that the NWHL and WWHL are the top leagues, Wikipedia has it that the WWHL is defunct (which it is not, as the media keep referring to it as being existent, although there is a partial truth to the fact that it was "absorbed" into the NWHL, as the WWHL teams - except the Calgary Oval X-Treme, the defending WWHL champions - are linked from the NWHL website). I also note that the Clarkson Cup has been subsequently awarded, although how it was I'm not too sure (as the last time I checked it did replace the NWHL Champion's Cup). Again, someone with better knowledge of Canadian women's hockey should fill in some details.

kelvSYC 02:23, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject National Hockey League

I noticed that a user has created this new Wikiproject, Wikipedia:WikiProject National Hockey League, to cover NHL-related articles. I already thought WikiProject Ice Hockey is already covering it. Or should it stay and be a "Descendant Wikiproject". Thanks. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 02:29, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Stupid, we already have an established project with many members that cover NHL articles. --Krm500 13:31, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Wayne Gretzky's Nationality

This subject is reopening at Talk:Wayne Gretzky. Comments are requested from WikiProject Ice Hockey members. Flibirigit 05:15, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Similar to this issue is the issue of Rod Langway. Langway has a category for Taiwanese ice hockey players. He was born in Taiwan, but grew up and learned the game in the US. Should we add a category to his article for American ice hockey players? This same question would apply to several other players as well. Patken4 21:22, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes the current consensus is to add a category for both the country he was born in and the country they play internationally for if it is different. I don't know if Langway ever played for the American national team so that is why the category is absent. I will look into it and add it if he has.--Djsasso 22:36, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Have added the cat to Langway. --Djsasso 22:46, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Infoboxes for defunct NHL teams

I noticed most of the articles on defunct NHL teams still use the old infoboxes we user, so I developed a variation of our current team infobox with some of the elements that require the team to be still active (e.g. coach, captain, GM, media affliates, etc.) stripped away. The box can be found at User:NeoChaosX/Infobox DefunctNHLTeam (I'm not moving it to template space just yet), and I've used California Golden Seals to try it out. Just doing this for the sake of consistency, is all. Any thoughts? NeoChaosX (talk, walk) 19:08, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Looks great. I do like the consistency. I notice the same with defunct arenas. I give the green light. 71.99.83.251 12:28, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

• Looks fine to me. RGTraynor 14:27, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
• Looks good to me as well. Though perhaps you could just make those particular fields unmanditory in the main box? Either way is fine. --Djsasso 17:47, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
  • I was thinking that, too, although that would require a major reworking of the code of the main infobox, something I don't have the time to do right now. If that were possible while still keeping the layout of the current main box intact, I would use it instead. For now, though, this will have to do. NeoChaosX (talk, walk) 19:30, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
    • Ok sounds good to me. I have never tried to code a template here so wasn't sure what was involved. --Djsasso 22:37, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Minnesota North Stars

On the List of MN North Stars players (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Minnesota_North_Stars_players), there is a link on a player called Gary Sargent. But the link leads to a page that is either about a different Gary Sargent or has been vandalized. 24.245.35.74 19:42, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Nope it links to the right person. --Djsasso 22:39, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Professional Ice Hockey

I'm trying to get Ice Hockey to FA status. I have split a section of the article(lacking a worldwide view) into a separate, bigger article, but I can't write a good lead. Anybody able to do it? The Evil Clown 15:21, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Did you get consensus from other editors to do this? Kevlar67 03:33, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

No, but I took a look at it, and I wasn't myself bothered by it. RGTraynor 14:10, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

That's great and all. But really the other editors of Ice Hockey should sign off on something like this. I'm worried about it turning into a POV fork, or just being plain unnecessary. Practically all important hockey competitions in NA and W Europe have been pro for decades, and the Soviets were only "amateur" by a very generous interpretation. Do other sports divide their coverage on WP this way? I don’t know, but I’d guess not. Kevlar67 00:33, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

List of NHL players with 600 goals

I was wondering if anyone else thought that list was unnecessary, especially considering that there is a List of NHL players with 500 goals. -- Scorpion 01:42, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

I would tend to agree. I see no problem with turning it into a redirect to List of NHL players with 500 goals. Would anyone have an issue with that? Resolute 04:22, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Also, I would recommend making the default sort on the list of NHLers with 500 goals to be number of goals rather than date it was achieved. Resolute 04:23, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

My main concern is that it would open up the possibility for other similar pages. Why a list for players with 400 goals, 1200 points, etc, etc. As for the default sortability option, it is a list of players who have achieved 500 goals, not the top scorers. -- Scorpion 04:28, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree about the concern of arbitrary figures being introduced. 500 is a number of key importance by the NHL, but anything else would be arbitrary. There is a List of NHL players with 700 goals, which has already been redirected. IMO, that is a good solution for this one too. Good point on the list of scorers, however, I think the date is a very poor default sort option. If not by total number of goals, then alphabetically would be ideal. Resolute 05:35, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

My opinion is that the sort method should be number of goals. The reason behind that is because with the redirects of other search phrases, such as List of NHL players with 700 goals, at least the researcher who was looking would easily be able to see those players at the top of the list even though all players with 500 goals are also listed. The number of goals scored as the sort is more useful. If the list is to only show those users at 500 goals or more, than alphabetized is best. However, it is more functional to sort by goals scored. Pparazorback 05:58, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

However List of NHL statistical leaders already sorts the 500 goals by number... sorting by date or even alphabetical give the page more identity and distinction... and if you say why don't just redirect to List of NHL statistical leaders, I would say this is more of a magnification of that page. 69.63.57.88 21:20, 18 March 2007 (UTC) (a defunct user)

Why should this be "magnified"? - Cafemusique 23:48, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Well not as much of a magnification as opposed to an extension. It is in more detail then the listing on List of NHL statistical leaders. And I may also add that it is sorted by date because that is how it is in the NHL Official Guide & Record Book, the source material. Mister Stat Master 21:23, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Category organization

I was going to make subcategories of Category:Hockey Hall of Fame for builders, players, and officials. Does anyone have a problem with the naming scheme Category:Builders in the Hockey Hall of Fame, etc? When done, I will also need help sorting the current members of the main category. --Mus Musculus 18:04, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Do we need to chop it down that finely? (I'm not coming down on the notion, per se; I'm just interested in the rationale for doing so.) RGTraynor 20:00, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, the category is fairly large right now and not really browsable for a reader looking for members in a particular HHOF category. There are two lists of HHOF members, but they are alphabetical and chronological, not by category. We have been pursuing a goal of having an article for every HHOF member, so there are quite a few "Builders" and "Officials" in the category at this point. So, rather than having the bulk in one large category, I'd rather present the option of view just Players and so on. --Mus Musculus 20:16, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

I'd prefer a list to a category. --Djsasso 22:29, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

So something like Members of the Hockey Hall of Fame by category? --Mus Musculus 00:06, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Probably something like List of Hockey Hall of Famers in the builders category something like that...though this example is a bit of a mouth full. Or List of Hockey Hall of Fame builders perhaps...unless that would confuse people to its purpose. --Djsasso 20:43, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Blocker or blocker?

I noticed there are two pages for a goalie's blocker. This one has more links to it, but this one seems more complete. Merge? Just thought I'd point it out! --Schmackity 13:47, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Merge it but use the name Blocker (hockey) because goalies in both field and ice hockey use blockers I do believe. Of course you will have to put that up for nom to do it tho. --Djsasso 18:14, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

WP Munich- Sports Task Force Invitation

I'm wondering if anyone in here would like to join WikiProject Munich and help out with the hockey section for the Sports Task Force. Kingjeff 18:29, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't know much about hockey in Germany. What kind of help is it that you are looking for? --Krm500 21:41, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Bill Stewart (ice hockey player) and Bill Stewart (sports)

Just so there isn't any confusion between the two, I've labeled Bill Stewart, who played in the NHL in 80's and later coached the Islaners, as Bill Stewart (ice hockey player) and Bill Stewart who was an ice hockey and baseball offical as well as coach of the Blackhawks as Bill Stewart (sports). The Bill Stewart in the US Hockey Hall of Fame is the sports Bill Stewart. Patken4 17:54, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

We need to change the one to Bill Stewart (ice hockey) because if you use the word player in there it is too specific since he was a coach as well. Or (ice hockey b. xxxx) for whatever year he was born in cause using the word player makes it too specific since he was a coach as well. --Djsasso 19:27, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Done. I'll also did a dablink from Bill Stewart (ice hockey) to Bill Stewart (sports). Patken4 19:52, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Looks like I found a duplicate article. If you know much about these guys you might want to merge whats necessary and put it up for deletion. Bill Stewart (hockey coach). --Djsasso 23:20, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Pat Kelly (skater) vs Red Kelly

Both Pat Kelly (skater) and Red Kelly have real names Leonard Patrick Kelly. Is this correct? —Quarl ^(talk) 2007-04-04 12:29Z

That definately is Red Kelly's name. And I have no reason to think its not the speed skaters name as well. --Djsasso 15:25, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Hockey vandal

Please help me keep an eye on 68.39.163.15 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log). He has been blocked three times for vandalizing hockey articles, and he is at it again. I have asked the blocking admin to re-block him, and I have undone all of his edits. His MO appears to be either removing text or changing statistics like weight and height. --Mus Musculus 14:36, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Template:Carolina Hurricanes 2006 Stanley Cup Team

Came across this today: Template:Carolina Hurricanes 2006 Stanley Cup Team, which strikes me both as a bad idea, and as an end-run around a similar category which was deleted in CfD a while ago. Imagine such a template for anyone who played on any dynasty of the past? I am personally inclined to list it for deletion at TfD, but wanted to see if anyone here had any objections first. Resolute 23:30, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

No objections. --Krm500 00:06, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Definately think it should be ditched. --Djsasso 03:07, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

As one of the resident Hurricanes Editors, no objections here either. I also noticed another template that should also be included as a deletion candidate, Template:Tampa Bay Lightning 2004 Stanley Cup Team. The user Rickyharder has created both. He was busy last night adding that template for Tampa to several of the Lightning players from the 2004 championship team. Both templates should nominated for TfD. Pparazorback 03:37, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Just to be clear on the topic; The best way would probably be to create a Championship Team template that could be placed at the season page of the winning team. A template simular to the Current Roster template. --Krm500 11:40, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't really think there needs to be a template at all. You could just do that with a table on the season page. --Djsasso 13:19, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Yea, of course, I ment to use the same code as the Current Roster does. --Krm500 15:01, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Personally I don't see how this template is bad, particularly if it's added onto the bottom of biographical articles like the awards succession boxes. Maybe if they had a [show]/[hide] feature? --Wafulz 04:20, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

For the most part, it is indiscriminate. Templates are typically used to tie closely related topics together, or to create easy navigation. IMO, simply being members of a championship team are not a close enough relationship to form a useful template, and I don't see the navigational benifits either. As mentioned, a player who appears on multiple Stanley Cup teams will see an article flooded with these things. Imgaine the Wayne Gretzky article if his four cups were listed, along with his international team championships? That article is already bad enough with the succession boxes. Resolute 04:58, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

They have been nominated here. Resolute 05:11, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

I also added Template:Colorado Avalanche 2001 Stanley Cup Team to the nomination as well. --Pparazorback 05:32, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, these templates have got to go. Imagine what the Montreal Canadiens (24 Stanley Cup titles), Toronto Maple Leafs (13 Stanley Cup titles) and Henri Richard (11 Stanley Cup titles), would look like with such templates? GoodDay 18:16, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

I think the use of a navigation template is inappropriate for this situation. I can think of two better alternatives: expand List of Stanley Cup champions (or create a sub-article) to include the roster of each winning team (i.e. the names actually engraved on the Cup), or create a new list (List of Stanley Cup winning hockey players??) that has a sortable table to find multiple-Cup winners, sort by team or by year, etc. Andrwsc 20:05, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Spurious "retired numbers"

A recurring battle for over a year has been in the Hartford Whalers topic, where a few editors insist that the honoring of three players by the AHL minor league team nine years after the Whalers left town be reflected in the Whalers' Retired Numbers section. One of them has jumped back into the fray and says he's just going to revert to his own edit every day. Comments welcome on the various talk pages, because after a year of it I'm inclined to take it to mediation at the least. RGTraynor 03:48, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

The consensus continues to be (list only- Ley, Howe & McKenzie). What's troubling to me? The editor who 'promises' to revert daily (against consensus). There's no need for such behaviour (by the editor in question). I'd suggest, not going to 'mediation' (for now), as it's currently only 'one' compative editor. The compative editor, must learn to respect 'consensus (perhaps, an Administrator's block is the answer). GoodDay 20:42, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Correcting SMALL tags....

I have went from Anaheim through Chicago alphabetically on the NHL Teams list and made numerous corrections to the SMALL tags that are used. Previously it seemed that when the < SMALL > tag was used, text would revert to normal size on the next line. That is apparently no longer the case. If you fail to use the < /SMALL > tag to close it, then all normal text below will also be small. This is found in several places on the NHL Team pages usually beginning at the end of the "seasons" table, and goes through the Rosters (Where players have been indicated as being injured, etc...) and awards. What needs to happen is that all of these < SMALL > tags need to be closed with < /SMALL > to correct the page's text size. I have done through Chicago as I said but do not have the time to do more right now. As I get a chance, I will do more if anyone else does not take on the project to correct this. Any help would be appreciated. (hagerbot is quick, came back here to sign) Pparazorback 16:01, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

I've completed the corrections (you've started). Article text have been restored. GoodDay 19:49, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

You would be surprised how many small tags were missed. I even went through the ones I did previously and found several. I did a search for "small>" in my browswer and found every instance of the small tag being used in all the NHL articles and have closed ALL of them. For the future, we will have to be carefull to make sure that we close all smalls that are opened otherwise text problems will occur. --Pparazorback 18:11, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Will do. GoodDay 00:45, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Super Eight discussion

I am looking for some other opinions on the discussion I just started at Talk:Super Eight. Please feel free to add to the discussion. Thanks! Stoneice02 02:36, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Joe Sakic

It just occured to me that someone decided to move the Joe Sakic page to Joe Šakić, which just leads to the issues that we are all so familiar with. Now I am not to sure how to move it back, but if one of you would be so generous to do so, that would be super. Kaiser matias 22:11, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

No problem, I have reverted the move. All you have to do is press the move link right next to "edit this page". --Krm500 22:56, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. Should have looked around myself before that, but it gets the job done. Kaiser matias 23:19, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Hey, how do you think I learned it ;) --Krm500 23:27, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Sakic on Peer Review

I have spent some time fixing up the Joe Sakic article, and am now going for either a GA or FA nomination in the forseeable future. However, it's lacking something, so I'm asking for the help of my fellow hockey project members to see what this is and fix it. We need more high quality articles, and so lets get them going. The discussion page can be found here. Kaiser matias 23:42, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

The article has been completely rewritten now. I would like to nominate it for GA in the next few days, but would like some more input on it first. Kaiser matias 23:05, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

It looks great to me. I'm certain Burnaby Joe, would be flattered. GoodDay 20:25, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, but it still isn't good enough to what I want it to be. I'm just to limited in what I have available. I need more print sources about him that I know exist, stuff about his time in Quebec and the like. Kaiser matias 20:30, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Entry Draft article content

In reference to discussions on Talk:1993 NHL Entry Draft and User_talk:24.23.139.245#1993_NHL_Entry_Draft, I wanted to pass this along to the WikiProject for feedback. Thanks. — MrDolomite • Talk 03:37, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

• QUESTION: Should NHL Draft articles be a complete list or some subset (criteria TBD) of the players drafted?

The obvious answer would be to include every player drafted. Remember this is an encyclopedia, and including the entire draft is highly encyclopedic. Also, remember that Wikipedia is not paper. Kaiser matias 04:30, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Complete list without a doubt. Even if a majority of the players never make the NHL, they were drafted, and an article about the draft should aim for completeness, not a POV based opinion of who deserves to be listed and who doesnt. Resolute 04:30, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

All players drafted should be listed. --Krm500 10:03, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Concur. While players who fail the terribly loose athletic standards of WP:BIO don't (nor should) merit articles, this is a no-brainer; an entry purporting to be the list of any given draft year must certainly be the complete list of that given draft year.  RGTraynor  13:31, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes, all players should be listed. GoodDay 16:57, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't have much to say that hasn't already been said, but I agree that all players should be listed. Why not have a comprehensive list of all draftees? Skudrafan1 17:03, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

I would most certainly prefer to see the entrie draft list. DMighton 18:02, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Yeah I think its pretty much unanimous that it stay all players. It would be rediculous to not have all players listed.--Djsasso 19:12, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Not to be a loan voice of dissent...but I actually like the way the 1995 NHL Entry Draft is currently. It gives the full names of the first 2 (and most prominent rounds)...and then it lists all of the *significant* NHL contributors. Why do I like it this way? Because I can *quickly* see the important names that made it to the NHL. For example, I can quickly see that Miikka Kiprusoff went No. 116 and Marc Savard went No. 91....without having to scroll through a long list of no-name scrubs that never amounted to anything in the NHL. If I want a full list of everyone, just post a link at the bottom to the Hockey Data Base for them to get that information. Klinean 02:02, 13 April 2007

Yes however there are names of prominent people that did not make an impact as a player in the NHL. Examples such as referees, executives and such., as well as people who are notable outside of hockey. I mean how many people know that future Hall-of-Famer baseball pitcher Tom Glavine was drafted AHEAD of Luc Robitaille by the LA Kings in the 1984 NHL Entry Draft. Every name could serve some purpose and that is why every name should be listed. Croat Canuck Go Leafs Go 15:50, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

You have a good point, Klinean. Is there some way WP could do both? I'm thinking some kind of show/hide which would go from the complete and total listing to just the highlight listing. Hmm, have to put on the old thinking helmet for that one. Go Wings! — MrDolomite • Talk 02:43, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't really see the use in doing both. Because again where do you draw the line. --Djsasso 03:27, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

I quite agree ... beyond which, like several other project editors, I'm strongly oriented towards the minor leagues. Players like Bruce Boudreau, Michel Picard, Jody Gage, Don Biggs and Lonnie Loach might be scrubs to the NHL-only watchers, but to me they were great players whom I saw play. Heck, the only professional players who outscored Guyle Fielder were named Gretzky and Howe, come to that, and Fielder played all of nine NHL games.  RGTraynor  14:36, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Yeah good point Traynor. Those "too-good for the minors, but never made it regularly in the NHL" players are numerous and noteworthy, so you can't really take players off the list without some sort of POV. I mean more guys like Jock Callander, Steve Maltais and Kevin Kerr too are legends in their respective leagues, plus all those North American players who were dominant in the German and Swiss leagues but none of them ever played significant time in the NHL, and I'm inclined to think the common user is unable to make this distinction so I can just envision all kinds of edit wars. My personal favourites watching were Mark Kolesar, Lonny Bohonos and Paul Healey, but that also reveals my obvious Leafs bias. Croat Canuck Go Leafs Go 01:25, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Challenge Cup

There is a discussion about whether the Rugby League Challenge Cup should be moved to Challenge Cup. I am notifying you since "Challenge Cup" is or has been used as part of the name of various ice hockey tournaments notably the Stanley Cup. Those with an opinion see Talk:Rugby League Challenge Cup.GordyB 09:02, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Fighting in ice hockey on peer review

Hey everyone, just letting you know that I have been putting extensive work in the Fighting in ice hockey article and I'd like to get it to FA status. I have placed it for peer review here. I'm hoping for suggestions on things to add, etc.

I also wanted to ask for specific advice here about a passage I expect will attract frequent edits, which is the list of "examples" of well-known fighters. I thought a lot about who to include, and I eventually decided that it wasn't for me to decide and so I just included a sourced list from the Allen book. I anticipate that lots of anons and other editors will drive by and add their favorite fighter, but I think it's better as a short and well-sourced list. --Mus Musculus (talk) 16:31, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Impressive work! I can contribute with possibly two images in the article to replace the images taken from the seating area. --Krm500 21:10, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, that would be helpful. I wanted to limit the images to creative commons or public domain so it has a better chance of making FA. --Mus Musculus (talk) 22:12, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

I refuse to release my images to the public domain. Wikipedia's image policy is a real joke and will hurt this encyclopedia since some great photographers will disappear sooner or later. I'll upload the image to Flickr under the same license as the lead image. I want my images to be used for educational purpose, not commercial. --Krm500 00:52, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Here's the image, Image:Frölunda Västerås U18 Fight.jpg. --Krm500 01:12, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

That is a terrific image, thank you for uploading it.--Mus Musculus (talk) 04:12, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, but now that I see it in the article I think I should crop it so that the two players fighting are more visible? --Krm500 23:34, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Create More Articles Week!

Just for laughs, I've been filling in the holes on my redlinks, and I've created a new hockey article every day this week: Connie Madigan, Bruce Landon, Gregg Sheppard and Dennis Kearns, so far. (I'm narked that Reggie Fleming, the Portland Buckaroos and Harold Snepts (!) are likewise redlinked, and they're next on my hit parade.)

Why not go for it yourself? Hit the various Lists of players from Team X, pick out your favorite redlinks, and have at it!  RGTraynor  19:56, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

• Are you looking for Reg Fleming and Harold Snepsts? I've been trying to create articles on all players who have played in an All-Star game myself. I think I have created one for each player who has played in one since 1968 (the year they stopped using the defending champion against the "best of the rest"). The ones left are only those who played a year or two with a champion. The only game I can't find who played is the 1994 game at MSG. The Complete Hockey Encyclopedia I have only has the rosters through 1992, and there is an article here for every game since except 1994. Looking around the net hasn't brought me much luck either. I would be very surprised if a player who played in 94 game didn't have an article, however. Patken4 21:44, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Whoa, whoa, whoa people, I INVENTED this game, pick a section in the List of NHL players and just make articles. Traynor you thief! lol. I think one time awhile back I just thought, "hey I'm gonna create a page for each player who has scored 500 career points in the NHL". I can't really prove it anymore, cuz I deleted my Creations page a while back, but trust me, it was very very long. Ok, now that my shameless self-promotion is done, I'll just say that overall in the last year by everyone in the wikiproject there have been tons of hockey articles done, and it just takes too much effort these days to find a worthy red-link that needs to be created, but keep up the good work Traynor and Patken! Croat Canuck Go Leafs Go 01:18, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

(Shameless self promotion alert!)A few weeks ago, I wrote a bunch of articles on players from the 70's and 80's. The only players I was really surprised we didn't already have articles for were Mario Marois and Lou Nanne. Hopefully, I got most of the "known" players from these decades. The only ones who wouldn't have one now are those where the link from the team pages links only to a disambigution page or someone with that name already has an article. I didn't check any of those.

Also, a big thanks should go out to Skudrafan1 for doing an article on all the remaining Sabres players! Patken4 13:13, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Personally what I think we should do is instead of creating articles for all the one-game NHLers, we should work on the content of what we have. I have been going through the list of unassessed articles, and have found that there is thousands of stub-class articles, and very few that are of any quality. We only have four FA-status articles (including a FA-status list) and another two being nominated, and four GA-status articles, out of 7500 hockey articles. We can do a lot better, and should be working to making more articles reaching FA-status and the like, not adding hundreds of articles that will only contain a few sentences. Kaiser matias 01:46, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Protection for Chris Neil

Can we do something for the ridiculous amount of vandalism going on at the Chris Neil article? DMighton 17:24, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

3 vandalism in 1 week is small beans. Employ "Revert, Block, Ignore". ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 05:16, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

I was just passing by it, thought it worse than it was... just left a heads up. DMighton 05:18, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Urgent request - Article verification needed

A relative of Pat Quinn is quite upset over his article. Upset enough to raise a complaint over at the WP:OTRS. According to this person the statistics are way off. Since I know nothing about hockey I would like to request that everyone here spend some time verifying/correcting the statistics and adding citations where appropriate. Any kind of article improvement would be appreciated.

Thanks everyone... I'm sure at the end of this endeavor we will have another happy "customer". ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 05:14, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

What statistics are in dispute? The only statistics that are listed are his coaching records which appear to be 100% factual, so I do not see what the dispute may be about. I added an external link to his bio on hockeydb.com so show that the listed stats appear to be correct.--Pparazorback 05:48, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm not really sure. The complaint didn't say. But if you've checked it out against a reliable source and it turned out accurate, thats what I needed to know. It's very possible this person saw it just after some vandalism. ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 14:49, 15 April 2007 (UTC)