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October 2

Psychological self-treatment

Suppose a psychiatrist/psychologist has, say, bulimia. Would they be able to treat themself, or would they have to see another mental-health specialist? I know a psychiatrist could write for his own medication, I suppose, but as far as psychotherapy, can it be performed successfully on oneself? Thanks!--El aprendelenguas (talk) 05:12, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Treating yourself for something psychological would pretty much defeat the purpose, wouldn't it? Grsz^X 05:55, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Lots of people talk to themselves. I's very soothing :) Why do you think such self help would not work? Most people give up cigarettes by themselves whatever the advertisers say. Dmcq (talk) 07:34, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

I would suspect that if you have got to the point of requiring to see a pyschiatrist (as a trained professional pyschiatrist yourself) then you would be having trouble dealing with your problem on your own. An example from tv (not ideal but shows it happens) is in The Sopranos where Tony Soprano's pyschiatrist regularly goes to see a pyschiatrist herself. Often from being removed from the situation you can better judge a remedy. If you 'live' the experience then it will be harder to remove yourself from your thoughts/feelings and make an accurate diagnosis.194.221.133.226 (talk) 09:00, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

If it were something minor, like biting one's fingernails, then self-treatment would probably be okay. But for something as serious as bulimia, a psychiatrist who treats him or herself has a fool for a client. Clarityfiend (talk) 09:17, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

While we're on the topic, can dentists fix their own teeth? --124.254.77.148 (talk) 11:32, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

This thread reminds me of a dialogue from [http://www.script-o-rama.com/movie_scripts/b/barton-fink-script-screenplay.html Barton Fink]:

DEUTSCH: He's a little funny in the head.

BARTON: What did . . . What did he -

MASTRIONOTTI: Funny. As in, he likes to ventilate people with a shotgun and then cut their heads off.

DEUTSCH: Yeah, he's funny that way.

BARTON: I ...

MASTRIONOTTI: Started in Kansas City. Couple of housewives.

DEUTSCH: Couple of days ago we see the same M.O. out in Los Feliz.

MASTRIONOTTI: Doctor. Ear, nose and throat man.

DEUTSCH: All of which he's now missin'.

MASTRIONOTTI: Well, some of his throat was there.

DEUTSCH: Physician, heal thyself.

MASTRIONOTTI: Good luck with no fuckin' head.

194.171.56.13 (talk) 11:54, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

My understanding of psychology is far from complete, but I guess what I'm trying to ask is, for serious mental disorders that require clinical psychologically attention (e.g. anorexia, bulimia, schizophrenia), could a psychiatrist/psychologist treat himself/herself? Or is it something about the nature of the mind and mental disorders that requires an external perspective to treat? Or does the knowledge they have of psychology make them "immune" to such diseases? That's my basic question. On a side note, what about less serious disorders like phobias? And can a psychologist perform cognitive behavioral therapy on himself/herself? Thanks!--El aprendelenguas (talk) 19:42, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

They could certainly self-prescribe medication to some degree (though I don't know about the legality of that). Whether they'd be able to rationally recognize and diagnose their own schizophrenia, for example, would depend on the degree to which they could be really rational about it. Certainly an education in psychology does not make one "immune" to diseases which are strongly biochemical and potentially genetic in origin. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 22:23, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

It depends, it is possible to do some things on your own. You can, for example, hypnotize yourself to a certain extent. However, a lot of therapy methods see talking about the problem with others as an important part of the process. Wrad (talk) 00:37, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Psychological self-treatment might be like "Every day, in every way, I'm getting better and better." Or, self hypnosis. DOR (HK) (talk) 01:50, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

I don't see any problem about a psychologist treating his winter depression. In the case of schizophrenia, however, perhaps he is so dysfunctional that he is not even able to have coherent thoughts. Mr.K. (talk) 09:49, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

They could have a go at various purely psychological treatments (how successfully would depend on a lot of variables), but no doctor is allowed to prescribe their own medication (at least, not in any country I'm aware of). --Tango (talk) 16:51, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

There are a lot of things a shrink could do for himself that wouldn't necessarily require actual therapy -- supposing, of course, that the problem in question isn't one that makes it too difficult to evaluate his own condition in a realistic manner. For example, many conditions can be improved or avoided simply by avoiding problem behavior and situations: if you are prone to debilitating social anxiety in certain circumstances, for example, you can make sure you avoid the kind of situations that are likely to trigger those events and monitor your own emotional state so you can spot the warning signs. This kind of thing can often have a kind of a self-perpetuating effect, as learning to read your own mental state can bestow a feeling of control, which in turn makes it easier to function without triggering the condition, which increases your feeling of control... That kind of thing doesn't necessarily require any help from anyone, if you're familiar with the techniques. A lot of the help you get for mental conditions isn't necessarily so much about curing the condition as it is about learning to live with it and control it by various means. But that certainly wouldn't work for every condition (schizophrenia, for example, would most likely be extremely difficult, if not impossible to self-treat), and not everyone would have the willpower or even the awareness to do this, even if their condition was one that could be self-treated. The original poster's example was bulimia. I'm sure that would be a really tough nut to crack, but there are people who have beaten eating disorders on their own, and having an in-depth understanding of the illness and the way the human mind tends to work would surely be an asset. I wouldn't recommend that anyone go it alone, you understand, but I don't think it'd be impossible. -- Captain Disdain (talk) 01:29, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Nigerian press

what role Nigerian press and media played over Bakassi issue —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.166.237.254 (talk) 14:50, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Our Bakassi article says the decision to transfer sovereignty of the region to Cameroon aroused anger in the Nigerian media. --Sean 20:29, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Dass local government

Moved from Entertainment ref desk Astronaut (talk) 18:15, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

what is the history of Dass local government area of Bauchi state,Nigeria.195.166.237.254 (talk) 16:07, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Open meeting vs closed meeting

If a meeting is open as opposed to closed, does that generally mean that non-committee members are allowed to attend only or also allowed to participate? --Seans Potato Business 18:21, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

That would probably be at the discretion of the chair. They wouldn't usually be able to vote, but they could speak if the chair invites them to. --Tango (talk) 18:27, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

In an open meeting, the proceedings are conducted in the open, i.e., they can be observed by non-committee members or non-committee members may be invited to participate (though, who can observe or participate may be controlled). Closed meetings are conducted out of the scrutiny of outsiders with only committee members allowed to observe/participate (the minutes may be made available later though). --Regents Park (sniff out my socks) 20:14, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

In Ireland, "open meeting" often means a public meeting which anyone can attend, or a sporting event which all comers can enter, but I think some organizations use it to mean a meeting that all members can attend and not just the members of the board or committee. Even at a public meeting, the rules will vary on who is allowed to participate - that is, to speak, vote, etc. So you need to find out what rules there are for the meetings you have in mind, or at least what usually happens. Strawless (talk) 23:38, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

¿ Is “ textual ” copy of the Bible ?

See this text, which is the correct translation? ( or From where was there extracted ? ):

May energy be in your spirit, strength in your resolution, gentleness in your heart, tenderness in your touch, respect on your lips, clarity in your mind and God in your soul And God said unto him, "Daniel, do you love Me or love My gifts?"

200.40.134.194 (talk) 22:14, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

That doesn't sound to me like anything in the Book of Daniel, which is the obvious place to look for it. Indeed, I don't believe Daniel is recorded anywhere as speaking with God: that is one of the reasons why the Jewish religion disputes whether he is one of the prophets or not. Strawless (talk) 23:24, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

A google search for that quote yields zero hits, and I also don't think it sounds like the Bible; I've read it several times, but this has a distinctly modern-ish feel to my ear. Where did you get it? -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 23:26, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

That is not in the Bible as used in mainstream Christianity. It may be in a Bible customized for an offshoot of Christianity or a Bible for another religion all together. -- kainaw™ 01:55, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

I like that word customized. Can I get one with Wifi and a roof-rack? —Tamfang (talk) 09:16, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Well, there's the Aquarian Gospel to start with... AnonMoos (talk) 16:16, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

October 3

uncommitted ohio voters

I'm watching vice presidential debate on CNN, there is an uncommitted ohio voters graph, how does this work? --92.227.176.143 (talk) 02:10, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

CNN compiled a group of uncommintted Ohio voters at Ohio State University to watch the debate. As they listen, they have a device that they can move up and down according to their approval or disapproval of that the candidates are saying. Grsz^X 02:15, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Personally I wish they had given some of those devices to a bunch of chimpanzees—would probably have been more informative, and more entertaining! --98.217.8.46 (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 03:20, 3 October 2008 (UTC).

Instead of "approve/disapprove" it could be "eat poo/fling poo"... --Jayron32.talk.contribs 03:56, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Nothing to do with Ohio, but global health guru Hans Rosling has a stunning presentation in which he says, around the 2-minute mark, "I have shown that Swedish top students know statistically significantly less about the world than the chimpanzees." --- OtherDave (talk) 16:15, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Hawaii Prepaid Healthcare Act

Out of curiosity, what can people here at the reference desk tell me about the Hawaii Prepaid Healthcare Act? I believe it regulates healthcare insurance in a way not found in anywhere else in the country, and was the basis of a plan to provide universal healthcare under the Clinton Administration. A quick Google search doesn't tell me much, and there's no article about it here on Wikipedia (although I added a mention in the ERISA article ages ago.) I'm asking because I'm thinking about authoring an article for it sometime in the foreseeable future. Musashi1600 (talk) 09:28, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

The first Google hit seems informative. --Sean 14:01, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Treasury_security#TIPS

I am searching for foreign currency TIPS, specially in pound and euro. Are foreign governments also issuing securities like these? Mr.K. (talk) 09:42, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Already found: Inflation-indexed_bond. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mr.K. (talk • contribs) 10:03, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Titanic (1997 film)

After the part of the film where the dome collapses and destroys the Grand Staircase, the camera rolls down a first class corridor which is flooding and having its doors torn off. I was wondering what's causing these doors to collapse, have the staterooms on either side of the corridor flooded and the pressure is destroying them. Because as far as I can see, the corridor is only just beginning to flood. Thanks --Thanks, Hadseys 12:39, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Could it be artistic license to make a more exciting scene? Without watching that exact part of the film it's hard to speculate for sure but...water is an incredibly powerful source, with the force of water rushing against a door that has already had unexpected pressure on it, perhaps that would be enough. I suspect it is artistic license though, not a whole lot of hollywood is grounded in reality, and less so is scientifically sound. 194.221.133.226 (talk) 13:26, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Having watched the scene in question, I'd say you're right, it looks kind of flaky but that's just what film-makers do. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 13:36, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

• So am I right in thinking that the staterooms on the right hand side of the corridor have already flooded and the corridor is now buckling under the oncoming water and from the pressurised water in the staterooms? --Thanks, Hadseys 13:46, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

No there is no reason for the doors to collapse, they should not collapse at all. The authors of the film only wanted to make the film look impressive. I have no idea what would be their explanation of the phenomemon, but it certainly wouldn't make much scientific sense. --Lgriot (talk) 14:50, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

I looks to me like the staterooms were supposed to have been suddenly flooded, breaking down the flimsy doors. Nice of them to wait until the camera rolled by. APL (talk) 04:07, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

So much was wrong with that film .Please do not take any of it as accurate.hotclaws 23:45, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Indigenous patterns throughout Central America

Further to the question about blacks in various countries in South America, it occured to me to ask why the gradation of population in Central America is the way it is. Mexico, while not free of racism, has fused its history into a new race (or people, or ethnic group), the mestiso. Its immediate neighbo(u)r to the south, Guatemala, has a high proportion of indigenous people, and, roughly speaking, as one meanders down the peninsula, it becomes progressively "whiter" (more European or North American), culminating in Costa Rica, the least indigenous country of the region. Why is this? BrainyBabe (talk) 14:07, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

The situation is not so clear cut in Mexico where gradations of race and racism exist across the country. This is one of the issues of the Zapatista Army of National Liberation. Rmhermen (talk) 14:55, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Indeed, most of the power structure in Mexico is decidedly European. The idea that Mexicans are a uniform race of 50% Europeans and 50% indiginous is a bit of a whitewash (pardon the pun). Especially in the south, such as the Yucatan and Oaxaca areas, there a lots of fully indiginous peoples which have not assimilated well into Mexican society. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 15:54, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Chinese in Africa

Again following on from a question about Africans in China, how many Chinese people are there in Africa? Our article on Chinese South Africans suggests 100 000 - 300 000 in that country alone, most of them recent immigrants, as opposed to the descendants of previous waves. This 2007 International Herald Tribune article says the "Xinhua press agency recently estimated there were at least 750,000 Chinese working or living for extended periods on the continent" [1]. I am not sure to what extent that is an unbiased source. Does any other national or international body attempt to keep accurate statistics -- ie how reliable is whatever data there is? How quickly is the situation changing -- my impression is, very rapidly, but I might be wrong. What countries have the most Chinese immigrants or long-term workers? Aside from the usual entrepreneurs, managers, engineers, technicians, and shopkeepers, what sort of occupation or function do the immigrants fulfil? BrainyBabe (talk) 14:25, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

I am a Chinese-born American who has recently backpacked from Cairo to Cape. Here are my impressions of the extent of Chinese immigration:

Egypt: low Ethiopia: extraordinarily high (thousands of entrepreneurs but also thousands of common laborers who are in construction) Somaliland: low+ I met a Chinese telecom engineer and the locals told me the Chinese government had installed water purification in Hargeisa Kenya: low presence in raw numbers but a Kenyan diplomat said they were a noticeable presence at the trade table Tanzania: High in Dar es Salaam Malawi: Recently Malawi broke it's long standing relationship w/ Taiwan, immigrant numbers look low Mozambique: High in Maputo and other regional centers South Africa: It's a big country so I can't confirm what end of that estimate is more accurate. But it seems minor in terms of influence. Verdict: 750k seems high Lotsofissues (talk) 00:32, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Interresting impressions. I am intrigued that the Chinese are bringing in their own labourers. This seems historically anomalous. One thing that Africa has in large measure is raw human power. (oh yeah, and raw materials too.) BrainyBabe (talk) 06:04, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Pyramid

There are pyramids in Egypt and also in various south american countries, 1, are there any in any other places on earth, and 2, why have these two seperate places build similar structures, is there a connection? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.115.175.247 (talk) 15:17, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

1. Yes, all around the world. see the article pyramid for checking where. 2. Because it is pretty stable, despite being a high structure. Mr.K. (talk) 15:27, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

No historian thinks that all these forms are culturally connected by historic contact among peoples or through extra-terrestrial interference. There is an authentic cultural connection between the Egyptian pyramids and the pyramids at Axum, in northern Ethiopia, south of Egypt, however. Thor Heyerdahl built the Ra II to sail it across the Atlantic in an attempt to prove that Egyptians could have sailed to Central America. Such connections form a major part of Mormon mythology.--Wetman (talk) 15:30, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Well, I wouldn't say NO historian. No credible historian does, but for an entertaining read, check out Graham Hancock's book Fingerprints of the Gods, where he makes an arguement for it. He does lay out a very interesting case, and its a good read. I won't spoil the ending for you, but, while it doesn't have anything to do with psychopathic retangular monoliths that play Richard Strauss music to monkeys, its pretty close. Understand going in that its total bullshit, but its still an interesting case. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 15:51, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Without wanting to side with Hancock or his ilk, I would say that "I do not see any merit in his argument" does not necessarily mean "His argument is total bullshit". -- JackofOz (talk) 22:09, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Some of those who subscribe to Pyramidology believe in such connections, and also connections to vaguely similar structures in Southeast Asia. I once read an hysterical book (which was also concerned with UFOs and anti-gravity and stuff) which claimed there was a harmonic relationship between the positions of these supposedly-related vaguely pyramidal structures, and thus claimed some pyramid power travel/communications network existed between these. Gosh, I wish I could remember that book's name. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 15:47, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

That was someone other than Hancock... His book is a little more grounded in reality, though not much... --Jayron32.talk.contribs 15:51, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

I heard someone on the Art Bell show say that the Giza pyramids were a hyperdimensional weapon used to defeat space aliens, or something. (And also to destroy the planet from which the asteroid belt was formed.) Adam Bishop (talk) 21:19, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

There's a name used in archeology/anthropology for when the same things (pottery, for eg) develop entirely independently in different cultures around the world (generally because the inventions are the most obvious, simple solutions to particular problems facing these cultures) -- but I can't for the life of remember what the term is. But it is a genuine phenomenom. Nothing to do with little green men.86.147.162.163 (talk) 15:59, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

In evolutionary biology, the term is called convergent evolution, where unrelated organisms devlop similar characteristics to fill similar niche's in their environs. (like Dolphins and fish both having fins). According to our article on convergent evolution, and I quote "In cultural evolution, convergent evolution is the development of similar cultural adaptations to similar environmental conditions by different peoples with different ancestral cultures." So perhaps the term convergent evolution is appropriate here too... --Jayron32.talk.contribs 16:29, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

---

Think about it, what's the safest way of building a very stable (yet impressive-looking) structure which rises to a reasonable height, when you don't have concrete or steel, or even any strong mortar? By having the cross-section of each level be smaller than the cross-section of the levels below it. I don't see much of a coincidence or spookily-mysterious resemblance here. And aside from such basic structurally-constrained factors, there really isn't too much specific resemblance in detail between meso-American and Egyptian pyramids -- Meso-American pyramids had steps running up the sides, and religious rituals were conducted at the top, while none of that was true for Egyptian pyramids... AnonMoos (talk) 22:07, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

It would also have been a straight development of the prehistoric earthen mounds, found im many of the ancient cultures (Hill of Tara, kofun, Poverty Point). --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 21:30, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Islam fasting and activities

Besides Ramadan, which others months of the Hijri calender do Muslims fast because their Prophet Muhammad (P.B.U.H) used do? During those months such as Rajab and Muharram, what are the prayers and activities do Muslims do? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.204.74.52 (talk) 15:36, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

You know, we have an article on Islam. Also, you may want to read the chapter in your World Religions textbook that came immediately before that homework assignment. I am certain the answer will be in there. Good luck on that homework, and please re-read that disclaimer at the top of the page. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 15:45, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

What is this symbol?

hi, ok it looks like this:

a standard christian cross, with two extra horizontal lines each side of the horizontal line that are curved slightly away from the horizontal line. Anyone know what it is? thanks, --84.69.147.138 (talk) 16:41, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

This? Grsz^X 16:44, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

its that but the bottom horizontal line is that same distance from the middle line as the top one, and the two 'non middle' lines are curved, like brackets '( )' on their sides, bending out from the middle line..... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.69.147.138 (talk) 16:51, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Some context of where you saw it may help. Grsz^X 16:57, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

There are several on the Cross page. Take a look there to see if you can see what you mean. Grsz^X 16:59, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

It's the Eastern Orthodox Church cross, which includes the Russian OC but others as well. See Patriarchal cross#Other variations. It should be added to the Cross page. -- JackofOz (talk) 22:01, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

i have no idea where i saw it, and i cant find it on the internet either. It looks like this (i just did this quickly) (you have to 'edit' to see it:

--------------o--------------
-------------ooo-------------
-------------ooo-------------
-------------ooo-------------
-------------ooo-------------
---o---------ooo---------o---
----oo-------ooo-------oo----
----oooo-----ooo-----oooo----
------ooooooooooooooooo------
---------ooooooooooo---------
-------------ooo-------------
---ooooooooooooooooooooooo---
-ooooooooooooooooooooooooooo-
---ooooooooooooooooooooooo---
-------------ooo-------------
---------ooooooooooo---------
------ooooooooooooooooo------
----oooo-----ooo-----oooo----
----oo-------ooo-------oo----
---o---------ooo---------o---
-------------ooo-------------
-------------ooo-------------
-------------ooo-------------
-------------ooo-------------
-------------ooo-------------
-------------ooo-------------
-------------ooo-------------
-------------ooo-------------
--------------o--------------

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.69.147.138 (talk) 17:00, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

There's a Discordian symbol kind of like that, but no Christian symbol (as far as I'm aware). AnonMoos (talk) 18:03, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Did you bother checking the description for the image? It says it's the "The three-barred cross" of the Russian Orthodox Church. The Church's article says practitioners crossed themselves with three fingers, hence the three-barred cross. Here is anoth example. Here is the Patriarchal cross, which only has two cross bars instead of three. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 18:00, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

There's no need to be rude. The cross in question isn't the Russian Orthodox cross anyway, it's the one the orignal posters has created for us in text, thus there is no "description for the image" to be checked. --LarryMac | Talk 18:18, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

It's also mildly similar to Image:Triple-Goddess-Waxing-Full-Waning-Symbol.png Nil Einne (talk) 22:05, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

As the image author, I don't really see too much resemblance... Possibly the original poster might mean some form of the Scientology cross, but that has little spikes, not curving lines AnonMoos (talk) 22:10, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Really? The only difference I see is that one has a round moon the other one highly epitical. The crescents are more or less exactly the same Nil Einne (talk) 07:52, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

The Triple goddess waxing-crescent/full-moon/waning-crescent symbol has a central circle, but no central lines, while the symbol crudely depicted in ASCII above has two central lines at perpendicular angles, but no central circle. (What you call an "elongated ellipse" is pretty much exactly the same as the depiction of a straight line with rounded ends in the perpendicular direction...). AnonMoos (talk) 16:09, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

P.S. Converted the ASCII text to a graphic using netpbm (which is useful for things like that), so that it can be seen roughly what it looks like using square pixels... AnonMoos (talk) 21:15, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Your drawing is similar to a "zhuk v muravejnike" ("beetle in an anthill" in Russian) symbol in Strugatsky brothers' eponymous novel. I have read Zhuk v Muravejnike about 20 years ago, but if I remember correctly the symbol was based on a kanji, or at least that's how I understood it back then. Anyway, you may want to look or ask on sites devoted to Strugatskie brothers' works. And you may want to read the novel, too. It's really good.--Dr Dima (talk) 01:55, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Turns out we have an English-language page for the novel, Beetle in the Anthill. Wiki has articles for EVERYTHING :) --Dr Dima (talk) 02:00, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Berber flag

• I would rather think that you are refering to the Berber flag : see fr:Drapeau_berbère. Baronnet (talk) 14:18, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

One website describes this to be the Tifinagh letter "Z", which is located in the middle stripe of the flag. Of course, there is no straight middle cross bar in this symbol. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 21:07, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Image removed

Hey, that looks like the MTR logo. :) 118.90.128.113 (talk) 08:35, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Back issues of Irano-Judaica?

I am trying to find the following article:

• Daniel D. Leslie, "Persia or Yemen? The Origin of the Kaifeng Jews," in Shaul Shaked, ed., Irano-Judaica: Studies Relating to Jewish Contacts with Persian Culture Throughout the Ages (Jerusalem, 1982), pp. 101-111.

However, I can't seem to find any seller on-line that has back issues of Irano-Judaica for purchase. Does anyone know where I can find it? --Ghostexorcist (talk) 17:53, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Nevermind. I found a couple of places that are selling it on line, however, it ranges between $75 and $350! I just want a single article from it. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 18:59, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

If you have a big university library nearby they might have it (Toronto has it but I'm not sure that helps). Adam Bishop (talk) 21:16, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

I don't know where the questioner lives. However,all the past copies of "Irano Judaica" can be found at the Jewish National and University Library at Givat Ram, Jerusalem. There are copies in the Judaica Reading Room and they can also be ordered from the stacks. None of them are for home loan. Simonschaim (talk) 10:32, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

I have just looked for further libraries at which "Irano Judaica" can be found. There is the Library of Congress in Washington D.C. and a number of libraries in Britain - for a list look under COPAC on the internet.Simonschaim (talk) 10:41, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

If two gay consenting adults have sex in KSA, is it illegal?

Even if it's in privacy?

And another question, if two consenting adults ( a 20 year old heterosexual couple ) have sex there and they're NOT married, is it illegal? Thanks friends. --190.49.105.156 (talk) 18:47, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

LGBT rights in Saudi Arabia may answer your first question. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 18:52, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure the answer to both is it's illegal Nil Einne (talk) 21:54, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Of course, Saudi Arabia has religious courts (see Sharia) for all aspects of the law, and if these gay consenting adults are engaging in homosexual activity then it can be a capital offence, so in Saudi Arabia the ultimate sanction they face is the death penalty. If the two consenting heterosexual adults are not married to each other but are married to other people, then adultery is also potentially a capital offence. If they are not married to anyone, then I believe Islamic law is much more equivocal. I don't pretend to have the complete answer to the last case, but from what little I know of what goes on there it seems unlikely that they would be in the same trouble. Strawless (talk) 23:22, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Afterthought - prostitution in Saudi Arabia is against the law, too. Strawless (talk) 23:34, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

I was half-expecting that "LGBT rights in Saudi Arabia" would be a totally blank article! I wonder what the Wahhabi muftis there have to say about Mukhannathun, who aren't necessarily homosexuals exactly, but are kind of inter-gender people who have some recognized status within some innterpretations of Islam... AnonMoos (talk) 00:22, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Given that the OP has chosen to post on the English-language Wikipedia, the situation of foreigners in Saudi may be of relevance. According to our article, there about 5.5 million resident foreigners, out of a total population of 27m; "around 100,000 Westerners in Saudi Arabia, most of whom live in compounds or gated communities." To a certain extent, these are self-policing, e.g. alcohol has been known to occur, and sex too, sometimes in combination, without the police getting involved. BrainyBabe (talk) 07:11, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Baron George Wrangell

How, if at all, was white-Russian aristo Baron George Wrangell related to the Wrangel family? George was the eyepatch-wearing alcoholic columnist model for C. F. Hathaway Company. (obit) (Mirror Makers mention) -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 21:07, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Regrettably, his NYT obituary of June 10, 1969 doesn't mention his father's name, but does state that he was "a nephew of a commander of the Russian White Army and the son of the former Imperial Russian Consul General in Rome". FWIW, he was born 1 Sept 1903 in Russia, came to the U.S. in 1930, was naturalized 20 Apr 1942 in the New York Southern District, and died 7 or 8 June 1969 in New York City's Doctors Hospital. His survivors were his widow, Katherine Bissell Wrangell, his mother Duchess Sasso Ruffo of Caracas, brothers Paul and Basil, both of Los Angeles, and a sister, Mrs. Elizabeth Wrangell Maulmeister of Paris. From this information, I would infer that his mother was Marussia Sasso Ruffo (30 Jul 1879-12 Dec 1971), who married Peter Freiherr von Wrangell (29 Jun 1874-Paris 1951) in St. Petersburg on 30 Oct 1902. - Nunh-huh 22:38, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. This leads me to think George is likely notable enough for a Wikipedia article (Baron, related to a bunch of other noted folks, super-famous model for 10 years, columnist), but there doesn't seem to be enough verifiable material to make it all stick. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 21:23, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

I agree with you - I think probably his iconic Hathaway status would be enough. Most of the info above can be cited to various newspaper articles, but we would need some "reliable source" to expand the article. Plus we would probably never be able to get a photo that would pass "fair use" muster on Wikipedia. - Nunh-huh 23:59, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

October 4

jocasta

what kind of person is jocasta —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.50.166.184 (talk) 02:36, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

We have an article on her at Jocasta. You could also read any number of classic Greek plays that feature her as a character, including Oedipus Rex and Phoenician Women. Good luck! --Jayron32.talk.contribs 03:28, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

The Man Who Liked Dickens

Hi. The article on A Handful of Dust states that the novel was an extrapolation of the author's short story The Man Who Liked Dickens. Does anyone know how I might be able to get hold of a copy of this short story, preferably online? Thanks! ╟─Treasury§Tag►contribs─╢ 18:20, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

The story has been anthologized frequently. In a hasty search, I'm not seeing it in any in-print anthologies, but copies of The Penguin Book of Horror Stories and The Book of Fantasy should be readily available in libraries and in the used-book market. The Complete Short Stories of Evelyn Waugh seems to be in print in both the United States and Britain. Since the story is still in copyright, I wouldn't expect to find it online. Deor (talk) 06:02, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks - think I might have tracked down a copy of Horror Stories in the library! ╟─Treasury§Tag►contribs─╢ 07:13, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

As I recall, Waugh made only a few trivial changes when he used the story as Chapter VI of the novel, so don't expect any startling revelations. Deor (talk) 15:44, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Is it anything like "The woman who enjoyed kipling?" Edison (talk) 18:34, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Silly boy, I've never met a woman who'd ever admit to having kippled. Deor (talk) 20:42, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Affair of the Diamond Necklace question

What happened to the titular diamond necklace that so ruined Marie Antoinette? I can't seem to find any answers or pictures, just a single drawing of it that appears undated. (Image:Diamond Necklace Marie Antoinette.jpeg) Thanks! Zidel333 (talk) 18:55, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

It was taken apart and the constituent gems sold in London and Paris by the Count & Countess de La Motte. Probably some of these have been reused in other settings. - Nunh-huh 19:19, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

The London Times, in January 1959, covering the "Ageless Diamond" exhibition at Christie's, stated that the Duchess of Sutherland's sautoir displayed there was "part of the famous, or rather, notorious necklace" that brought about Marie Antoinette's downfall. The necklace stolen by the La Mottes had 629 diamonds. Among the sales mentioned by La Motte in his deposition were 22 stones from the "scallops" sold by him to Gray's, a jewel store in Bond Street, London. It is thought that the stones that were used in the Duchess of Sutherland's sautoir came from among those 22 stones. (We don't seem to have an article on sautoirs: these are rope necklaces, longer than opera length, falling below the waist, and often having a tassel or pendant.) - Nunh-huh 19:54, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! This definitely helps explain what happened. Seems a shame what happened to the necklace though, it would be a fabulous sight today. Any chance of pictures of some of the subsequent jewelry? Zidel333 (talk) 21:50, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

David Gisser

Can you please create a page on a man named David Gisser, he has engineering importance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.183.98.14 (talk) 22:24, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

This is the reference desk. I believe you're looking for Wikipedia:Requested articles. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 22:28, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Sistine chapel ceiling - classification requested

I'm wondering if there is any internationally standardized system to define parts of the Ceiling of the Sistine Chapel? --Scriberius (talk) 22:34, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

I'm not completely sure I understand the question, but the "religious and public buildings of papal Rome" are all on the Unesco list of World Heritage Sites [2], using the following criteria:

"(1) to represent a masterpiece of human creative genius; (2) to exhibit an important interchange of human values, over a span of time or within a cultural area of the world, on developments in architecture or technology, monumental arts, town-planning or landscape design; (3) to bear a unique or at least exceptional testimony to a cultural tradition or to a civilization which is living or which has disappeared; (4) to be an outstanding example of a type of building, architectural or technological ensemble or landscape which illustrates (a) significant stage(s) in human history; and (6) to be directly or tangibly associated with events or living traditions, with ideas, or with beliefs, with artistic and literary works of outstanding universal significance. (The Committee considers that this criterion should preferably be used in conjunction with other criteria)".

Some of these criteria apply specifically to the ceiling. DAVID ŠENEK 09:20, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, but I just need a classification system for locating parts the ceiling. --Scriberius (talk) 12:44, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Why don't you just use the system used by the Vatican Museum? I doubt this is going to be standardized by ISO! Dmcq (talk) 14:02, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

McCain as Maverick

When and by whom was the term "Maverick" first used to describe John McCain? 76.103.138.164 (talk) 22:42, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

This profile mentions a 1993 Washington Post article that described McCain as "a conservative with maverick instincts." Not sure that was the first, though, it was soon afterwards that he got that reputation due to his efforts to towards campaign finance reform. Rockpocket 01:19, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

It was his gunner, "Goose", who first called him that. But then Goose died when he ejected into the canopy. And Meg Ryan cried a lot. But its OK, cuz Kelly McGillis was WAY hotter. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 04:58, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

James Garner was well known as a maverick way back in 1957, long before McCain. Perhaps he should run for president. Edison (talk) 05:29, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

He did and with Jack Lemmon no less! --Jayron32.talk.contribs 05:46, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

As an aside...Mel Gibson, another maverick, despite most people thinking of him as Australian, is eligible to be President himself, being born in the U.S. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 05:46, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

I think his drunken anti-Semitic comments probably tanked any actual eligibility. --140.247.11.44 (talk) 15:25, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Didn't do this guy too much harm. Rockpocket 18:31, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Gibson is an Australian by association, if not by citizenship. He was certainly claimed as one of us when he made Mad Max etc, but when he makes drunken anti-semitic comments he morphs into "the American actor Mel Gibson". He was named an honorary Officer of the Order of Australia back in 1997 for his services to Australian cinema. As well as being a U.S. citizen, he's also an Irish citizen, so I guess he could stand for President of Ireland some day. -- JackofOz (talk) 20:16, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

What about Nick Cave, Jack? I'm interested to know whether he gets claimed as one of your own. He was born in Australia but hardly seems to live there much these days. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 07:48, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Oh, Nick's indisputably an Australian, Richard. We have a long history of performers, actors etc making their careers overseas, and then choosing to live o/s more or less permanently. They don't cease being Aussies just because of that. Unless they abandon their Australian citizenship, which various people have done. Others become dual citizens. I guess it all comes down to definition: a person could be simultaneously an Australian by birth, an American by citizenship, a Greek by residence, and a Briton by long association. -- JackofOz (talk) 21:23, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

I guess it all comes down to whether they were born here, or were born Australian citizens overseas. Nick Cave was born here - end of story. Mel Gibson and Russell Crowe weren't, which enables us to claim them as Australians when they do good things but refer to them as foreigners when they do bad things. If Nicole Kidman ever did a bad thing, we'd probably remember only the fact that she was born in Hawaii as a U.S. citizen and conveniently ignore the fact that she also had Australian citizenship from birth through her parents, who just happened to be visiting Hawaii at the time. I'm not kidding, many people really do argue along these ridiculous lines when it suits their purpose, and the relevant talk pages are full of such debates. -- JackofOz (talk) 06:54, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

October 5

Today's bailout verses the 1929 depression

What are the differences between the great depression of 1929 compared to today's economic bailout —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.188.34.226 (talk) 14:16, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

For starters, the great depression was a recession and today's bailout is a bailout. To answer your question, this mentions a few differences and similarities. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 15:01, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

For starters, the Great Depression was no recession. The term wasn't popularly used to describe a brief economic contraction until the 1950s (although, many have redefined past depressions as recessions since then). As for the original question, the Great Depression was a stock market crash followed by a series of bad policy choices that coincided with poor weather (agriculture). From 1929 to 1933, the nominal size of the US economy declined from $103.6 billion to $56.4 billion, a drop of 45.6%. Consumer prices fell by 27.2%. In real terms, the economy dropped nearly 7.5% a year for four straight years. DOR (HK) (talk) 03:55, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

A check at google news archive shows that "recession" has been used much longer than since the 50s. What I had heard was that "depression" was a euphemism for the earlier "recession", but this seems to be just a silly story, "depression" seems more popular than "recession" long ago.John Z (talk) 22:35, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

I thought depression was euphemism for panic. —Tamfang (talk) 15:45, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

A severe recession is still a recession. I haven't come across a definition of recession which exclusively limited it to "brief contractions". Zain Ebrahim (talk) 12:40, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

By "brief" I mean contained in a year or so, rather than several years. My reference to recession being a 1950s term may not be correct, but I do recall hearing that the term was coined because government economists didn't want to suggest that the late 1940s or 1950s recessions were anything like the 1930s. DOR (HK) (talk) 01:19, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

If you want a similar event in U.S. history, I would point to the New York City bailout. I don't remember the year and, because it is impossible to find anything about historical bailouts on Google right now, I can't search for it. Basically, it was nearly the same thing. Congress came up with the idea of sending a lot of taxpayer money to New York City to help cover losses made by large businesses - primarily based on rather stupid business decisions. -- kainaw™ 21:33, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

That would be the this 1975 bailout. Incredibly, we don't have an article on it (any takers?) but it is covered briefly in the Presidency of Gerald Ford and History of New York City (1946–1977) articles. Ford at first refused to loan the city the billions it wanted, and the New York Daily News ran a headline: "Ford to City: Drop Dead." Antandrus (talk) 23:44, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

English Consumer Law

If an item has been purchased from a high street shop and it is faulty, is the consumer legally entitled to a refund? I have been reading many different pages on this and some say you are and others say they are only obliged to fix / replace. If the law states that a refund is obliged, can someone point me to the legislation that specifies this. Thanks Kirk UK —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.82.79.175 (talk) 14:35, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

This is dealt with in our Sale of Goods Act 1979 article. "Within six months, beginning at the time at which the goods were delivered, the buyer can require the seller to repair the goods, reduce the price, or rescind (revesting property and requiring the return of any payment) the contract where the buyer successfully claims that the goods were not in accordance with the contract at the time of delivery." In other words, the consumer can make the choice. The supplier has to comply or counterclaim that there is no problem with the goods. --Tagishsimon (talk) 15:33, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

And the specific legislation was amendments made to the Sale of Goods Act 1979 in the The Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002. --Tagishsimon (talk) 15:43, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

'.....the goods were not in accordance with the contract at the time of delivery.' does this mean that if the goods worked on the day of delivery but then 'died' after two days (it was a hard drive) is it arguable that they were not faulty at the time of delivery? I've been going through the articles mentioned above, I'm no lawyer and getting more confused. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.82.79.175 (talk) 17:41, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

The full term is six years (six months is just a change in the balance of evidence). BERR has a handy page on this regard here, which says Wherever goods are bought they must "conform to contract". This means they must be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality (i.e. not inherently faulty at the time of sale). and later the onus is on all purchasers to prove the goods did not conform to contract. For a transaction involving a business, the act notes that "durability" is one of the implied qualities (14(2b)e). Whether 2 days is an acceptable time for a "durable" hard drive to work, and the extent to which that failure indicates the product was "inherently faulty at time of sale" is a specific matter that we can't give you advice about. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 17:55, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

While this does not construe legal advice, I find it hard to believe in NZ that any electronic item would be considered durable if it only lasted 2 days Consumer Guarantees Act (the NZ law that applies to cases like these). And generally speaking, if an item dies/breaks, it would be considered the fault of the manufacturer/supplier/retailer unless you did something to cause the fault (for example, with a hard drive if you subjected it to forces beyond the allowed ranges). Most obviously, if the item shows any sign of external damage that is likely to cause or resulted from something that could be expected to damage the device it probably wouldn't be considered the manfacturers fault. However ultimately these claims would have to be tested in court or other appropriate forum. Whether this is the same in the UK, I don't know if you have a specific case in mind, you should see someone who can advise you Nil Einne (talk) 16:10, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

London railway station logos

A lot of London railway stations now have circular stylised logos, in various colours, like the X one shown in the image. Does anyone know where I can find a list of these logos, perhaps download them, or find out about their design? Thanks. ╟─Treasury§Tag►contribs─╢ 18:22, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Each of the 18 stations run by Network Rail has a logo like this. I would have expected Network Rail's website to have them, but I haven't been able to find any! -- Arwel Parry _(talk) 22:11, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

is there any user with astrology and magick knowledge?

hi guys, is there anyone who knows about astrology, astral charts, the karma that you need to acomplish in life acording to your chart, ..crowley magick...and all that stuff? but probably a modern aproach? basically i'd like to discuss and find out what i need to acomplish and ger over in this life to be at peace with myself and others.

if you are versed in the subject and u think you can help me and you'd like to share views on the subject, i'll talk to you in your user page and we can exchange emails and stuff. :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.91.11.185 (talk) 19:44, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a social networking site, and User talk pages should not contain extensive personal opinions on matters unrelated to Wikipedia. Moreover, the reference desk is not a place for people to express opinions about your personal life and beliefs. You will probably find what you are looking for in a "magick" forum. In the meantime, have a look at magick and astrology, which might provide some of the information you seek. Gwinva (talk) 20:22, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Try also karma, Aleister Crowley, Jyotiṣa, divination, horoscope, astrological aspect, horoscopic astrology, & natal astrology. Strawless (talk) 15:42, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Why isn't this little girl....

wearing Hijab?. And why is she with other men (boys) if they're not related to her?. It's in Iraq and Muslims laws forbids women to be with other men if they are not realated to her.Here, it's on Commons. Thanks all. --Maru-Spanish (talk) 19:59, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Iraq is a secular society. Little Red Riding Hoodtalk 20:27, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Moreover, not all people in Iraq are Muslims, and not all Muslims in Iraq are orthodox. Gwinva (talk) 20:35, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Did I read somewhere that girls aren't always expected to wear hijab until 'round about puberty? From their body language, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that this is a little sister to at least some of those boys... -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 20:36, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Hijab is not compulsory until the age of puberty, which is 9 for girls. And then, it depends much on how tough and strict their parents and their community are. --Omidinist (talk) 05:15, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

And how could you know that they are not related?Mr.K. (talk) 11:20, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

You might enjoy watching this excerpt of a wonderful segment from the Wholphin (DVD) series about a 13 year-old Yemeni girl who refuses to wear hijab. --Sean 14:55, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

While not addressing Iraq, you might want to read Sex segregation and Islam Nil Einne (talk)

Election of 1824 electoral college

What were some future political problems indicated by the Electoral College voting patterns in the United States presidential election, 1824? Thanks! Reywas92^Talk 20:02, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

As the first paragraph of the article you linked to says, the Democratic-Republican Party split into several different parties. Little Red Riding Hoodtalk 20:29, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Sounds a bit like homework, so I'm giving you a few leads and hoping you research yourself - not eI was tempted to give several misleading answers but chose not to.

Andrew Jackson later said his only regrets were that he hadn't shot Clay or hung Calhoun. You might look into what Henry Clay did and the reaction.

Crawford suffered a stroke before the votes were counted. Look at elections and amendments after this. (Yes, he was only 4th here so it didn't matter, but one elction did have the candidate for a major party die before the electors voted.)

The Vice President was chosen so quickly - he had the majority of electors - while the Presidential one wasn't. think about how that wcould influence things.Somebody or his brother (talk) 00:11, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

book a rabbi carries

what book does a rabbi always carry? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.199.70.242 (talk) 23:55, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

The Tanakh? Rockpocket 02:15, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

I would think that the most likely book that a Rabbi would carry would not be a Tanakh but a thin book containing the afternoon (Minchah) and evening (Arvit) prayers. Simonschaim (talk) 04:58, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

October 6

New Photographic Genre (style), undeclared, as such, anywhere...

...according to three days of extensive research, truly searching all available internet means to find such.

The term and the supporting examples of that term are not to be found anywhere on the internet.

OK, granted, I am a newby here at WIKIPEDIA, however, I have also read all of the information regarding submissions, and am still unsure that I may not be submitting an article that may be considered "self-promotional".

It is NOT my intention to be such, nevertheless, the term for the style of imagery that I have developed and practiced is, in my opinion legitimate and unique and deserves to be brought forward to be added to and further explained, as I believe that there are a good number of photographers practicing this artistic style, though, not heretofore spoken of as such, and to date not named.

What I would like to find out is how I may go about submitting such an article and claim the declaration of the naming of the style, absent the risk of pissing anybody off in doing so.

Jaybiss (talk) 04:09, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Your enthusiasm is appreciated. Wikipedia carries articles on what can be verified by (generally) reliable, third-party sources. See WP:RS and WP:V. You would need to wait until your style and terminology were generally in use before they would be appropriate for inclusion in the encyclopedia. Wikipedia also (generally) tries to dissuade people from writing about themselves, their relatives, their business, inventions. It is difficult to find and keep the right neutral point of view if you are writing about something close to you. It is not so much that you might piss someone off (and, even if you did, we should be kind enough not to show such feelings to a newcomer) as that you would likely find your article up for a "speedy delete" either on the basis of not being verifiable or on the basis of a conflict of interest. If you would like more information, please add a note to my talk page and I will try to help you myself or to direct you to someone who can. ៛ Bielle (talk) 04:32, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Short story called "The Mnemone"

I am looking for a science-fiction short story by Robert Sheckley. A friend of mine read it in a collection but has since lost the book, and now we are both in search of this story. I know little of the plot, except that it concerns a future in which there are only a few people who have memories, and they are called "mnemones" (a word coined by Sheckley). I have tried to search the Internet, but I have gotten literally one relevant hit: a link to the German Wikipedia's article on Sheckley, but I don't know German. I would really appreciate it if anyone could find out the name of the collection in which this was published, or anything, really. Thank you so much for your time! Cheers, Alitheiapsis (talk) 04:56, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Here's its Internet Speculative Fiction database entry. Looks like it's been included in four collections. Clarityfiend (talk) 05:39, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Political careers

I've been thinking lately that there might be some more stability in the US, economically and such, if politicians in appointed positions stayed in office longer. So, I looked through the cabinet of GWB and could only find one person who had been in their position for more than 5 years. That seems awfully short to me. If one were to compare this with people, maybe more specifically company executives, who aren't in politics, would both groups fall into a similar pattern or is there a difference? Dismas|^(talk) 05:58, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Successful directors move roles/companies a lot too, there is a lot of head-hunting and shuffling for positions. This link (http://www.cio.com/article/153600/Average_CIO_Tenure_Slips_But_Still_More_Than_Four_Years) suggests an average of around about 5 years. The politician is not a specialist knowledge in the area they head-up, that isn't their role - behind the scenes and in the committee groups there will be knowledge specialists, advisers and people with vast amounts of specific experience. The same is true for company directors. 194.221.133.226 (talk) 08:30, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

There are civil servants that hold their positions far longer. For example, "permanent secretaries" in the UK - the clue is in the name! --Tango (talk) 12:37, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Technically, the members of the president's cabinet are not politicians. Cabinet posts are not elected positions, and if a member of Congress (who is an elected official) is appointed to a cabinet post, he or she must resign the seat in Congress. Since the term of office for the president is set at four years, with a maximum of two terms, it's hard to see how someone could stay in a cabinet post.

As Tango points out for the UK, in the U.S. there are many career civil service positions, even at the highest levels. As this article notes, in 2004 there were just over 9,000 positions in the federal government into which a political appointee can go -- out of 2.7 million.

In addition, most cabinet secretaries can and do earn far more money (usually with far less grief) outside of government. That said, I'm not sure Alberto "I Can't Recall" Gonzales, the previous attorney general, is raking in the big bucks. If he were, would he remember? --- OtherDave (talk) 19:04, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

There have been some U.S. Cabinet members who have served over multiple administrations, even for presidents of different parties. For example, Norman Mineta served as Commerce Sect'y under Clinton, and was retained by GWBush as Transportation Sect'y. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 19:59, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

The Australian Public Service was modelled in many ways on the UK Civil Service. The heads of our departments used to be called "Permanent Head"; they're called "Secretary" these days. Their jobs often come to an end when there's a change of government, if the new government thinks the individual is too closely aligned with the policies of the previous government. In some cases, it's very obvious why they would think that - the person had formerly been on the previous PM's personal staff, had strongly influenced that government's policies for a significant period, and had then been given a Secretary's job to ensure the policies they helped draft on the political side of the fence were being implemented on the apolitical side of the fence. So much for the promises not to politicise the apolitical Public Service, which serves the government of the day whatever it's political colour, withour fear or favour. In other cases, it's just a matter of their personal style, or having made public statements that were seen to be overly supportive of the previous government's philosophies. The new Howard (Liberal) government in 1996 sacked a whole swag of Labor-appointed Secretaries. The Rudd (Labor) government didn't immediately sack any Liberal-appointed Secs when it came to power in 2007, but I think there's been some reshuffling and departures since. Many of them are outside appointments these days, although public servants can still rise through the ranks and achieve a Secretary's job. But even back when there were "Permanent Heads", they were not appointments for life, or till the then mandatory retirement age. They did tend to stay in their jobs longer than they do these days, but they were often shuffled between departments. In that sense, "Permanent" meant having attained that level (the First Division) of the Public Service, not necessarily being permanently the head of a particular department. When it was felt their usefulness to the Public Service had expired, they'd be appointed as an ambassador or high commissioner, perhaps to an out-of-the-way country, and I'm sure that UK "permanent" heads were sometimes also accorded such "honours". -- JackofOz (talk) 20:03, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

companies for $0.99c

Where can I buy a company for less than a dollar? Mr.K. (talk) 12:12, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Bankruptcy court. Once they've liquidated all the assets you can offer to buy everything that's left (which will be lots of debts) for whatever price you like and they'll likely say yes (they've no reason not to, although you may need to pay some admin fees as well). Of course, the company will be insolvent, so you can't actually do anything with it, but it would be yours. --Tango (talk) 12:35, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Going off at a slight tangent, Mr. K., I saw an interesting newspaper article a few days ago about a group of Germans who make their living by owning one share in every major listed German company. It seems that Germany´s laws are very protective of the rights of all shareholders, even the very smallest, and every time any German company makes a technical mistake which affects shareholders´rights, these people begin legal actions which the company needs to settle out of court, and that rarely comes cheap. Buying just one share is a relatively expensive thing to do, of course, thanks to trading costs, but if you buy and sell stocks and shares from time to time you can always sell all but one or two (two is a better number, for reasons I shan´t go into) of the shares you own, and over time you will build up a portfolio of these very small shareholdings. Strawless (talk) 15:57, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

That is called a strike suit. -- kainaw™ 21:43, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Nice idea, however I suppose it is more of an urban legend. Germans tend to think that investors are better off in the US. Anyway, I could buy 7-8 companies just with the brokerage's costs of buying two shares. Furthermore, shares of companies like Porsche cost some thousand dollars. Mr.K. (talk) 10:24, 7 October 2008 UTC)

FYI, shares in Porsche specifically, manufactured by Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG, are currently trading on Deutsche Börse and FWB Frankfurter [3] at about 60 Euros (about $90 US/CAN). ៛ Bielle (talk) 15:57, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Yes, you are right. My information was not up-to-date. After Porsche stock split (10:1) in March, its share price was not worth less than 100 Euros. Mr.K. (talk) 11:07, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

hindu

my daughter has a homework question which is . Are there any jobs hindus are not allowed to do which maybe against there religious beliefs —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.2.95.246 (talk) 12:45, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Butcher, bull fighter, mice control?Mr.K. (talk) 13:04, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Pope? Adam Bishop (talk) 13:05, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

BTW, we should not help you with homework questions. Even if it is for someone else. 80.58.205.37 (talk) 16:05, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Well. Allegedly for someone else. -- Captain Disdain (talk) 16:07, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Well, assume good faith. Mr.K. (talk) 16:11, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Note: This isn't a "give examples of" question. It is a "yes/no" question. The answer is obviously "yes." -- kainaw™ 21:39, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

@Kainaw: although you are right, remember that homework questions are normally poorly written, and that the teacher doesn't expect that you simply answer 'yes'.Mr.K. (talk) 09:21, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

This particular homework question is very poorly written. Indeed, if I weren't Assuming Good Faith, I'd suspect that the OP is not a (barely literate) parent helping with her offspring's homework, but a child herself. Malcolm XIV (talk) 13:53, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

The questioner could look at Caste system in India. Itsmejudith (talk) 11:00, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Politics and Tribalism

I read this statement in the comments section of a blog today, and as it's something I think about fairly often, and as my political friends just seem to roll their eyes whenever they point it out, I was wondering if it had a name:

"People on both the left and right tend to only accept facts as reported by the people on their own side, because "the other side are liars." And I think it's just as likely that Palin is simply deluded herself (all politicians start their lives in the rank and file) as that she's deliberately treating the people with contempt; in other words, those "facts" that have been pointed out to her aren't really "facts" at all because they come from people she doesn't trust."

MelancholyDanish (talk) 19:36, 6 October 2008 (UTC)MelancholyDanish

A strong case of confirmation bias and selection bias, perhaps? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.171.56.13 (talk) 19:45, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

It may sound amazing given what they say, but I believe politicians do normally believe what they say rather than ever deliberately lying. As an aside (or just ignore this as own research) an interesting thing I've observed is people tend to point out their own faults in others, even if there's something far worse they could say. I wonder if there's a term for that. Dmcq (talk) 20:34, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

This is simply called democracy. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 20:38, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

I wouldn't go quite that far, Dmcq. Very often, probably the majority of occasions, they really are speaking the truth, or what they believe to be the truth. But very often, they're publicly supporting a position of their party which in private they criticise and try to change. There are good reasons for a party to have a unified public position on an issue, even if behind the scenes there's all sorts of squabbling going on. And there have been many, many, many cases where politicians utter outright lies - there's no better way of putting it. They know it's not truthful, but they say it anyway because it suits their purpose and they think they can get away with it. This may not be true of any one politician chosen at random, but it's certainly true of them as a whole. (Later comment: It's also true of human beings as a whole, not just politicians.) -- JackofOz (talk) 21:11, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Don't forget, too, that in the old days, you could run for national office and tell a group of farmers in rural America one thing, and union officials in cities something else; that changed with mass media and reporting of national campaigns, of course. (Not sure which was the first reported on - Truman's 1948 whistle stop campaign, perhaps?) So, what you might be hearing, too, might just be a case of telling supporters what they want to hear - or think they want to hear - and it gets reported now whereas 75-100 years ago it didn't. And, int he case of national interviews and speeches, they have to make the choice to tell their supporters that or not.

Which also explains why politicians don't seem to hit on any real issues or what specific plans they have - at least from what little I've heard, though I'm disenchanted enough not to listen much anymore. (Though I will vote - maybe for Mickey Mouse :-) Somebody or his brother (talk) 23:15, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Sort of off topic, but that sort of statement is very similar to the type of statements Karl Popper made in one of the first papers in 'Conjectures and Refutations'. The claim basically goes that people tend to think of those who believe differently as either evil or ignorant. They either know the truth and are ignoring it for personal profit or are too dumb to know the truth. He claims this is the result of a conception of truth where truth is obvious. With this conception, if someone is exposed to some situation then the truth of the matter will result from any fair-minded individual. Needless to say that he thinks this conception of the truth is wrong.--droptone (talk) 11:40, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Clock painting

What's the name of the famous painting with a bunch of melted clocks in the desert? I had thought it was like the Essence of Memory, but I couldn't find anything with that name. Thanks, Reywas92^Talk 23:10, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

You were close: The Persistence of Memory. Deor (talk) 23:14, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Afro-Desi

Is there such word called "Afro-Desi"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.64.53.187 (talk) 23:54, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

There's aphrodisiac, meaning something that arouses (or is believed to arouse) sexual desire. Is that the word you had in mind? --- OtherDave (talk) 01:10, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

He probably means someone of mixed African-South Asian descent. Desi refers to people from Pakistan, India, and I think Bangladesh. That article has other terms that include African countries but I don't know if anyone has ever used "Afro-Desi" specifically. Adam Bishop (talk) 01:14, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

It's also the title of an album by Martin Denny and [4] Afro Desi, on the Liberty label, in the late 1950s. ៛ Bielle (talk) 01:18, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

I couldn't help picturing Desi Arnaz with an Afro instead of the Brylcreem look which was typical. In fact his bongo music could be considered Afro-Cuban. Babalu! Edison (talk) 01:32, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

October 7

Existing Gulags?

Do gulags still exist in North Korea? 203.188.92.70 (talk) 03:55, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Do you mean prisoner work camps? If so, they exist all over. See Labor camp. Grsz^X 04:00, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

But there's nothing about North Korea specifically. Is there an article on this? 203.188.92.70 (talk) 04:14, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Ah, here we go. Grsz^X 04:37, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

It's peculiar, labour camp doesn't refer at all to the US, whereas prison farm deals only with the US. Anyway my guess is by 'gulag' the questioner was really thinking of places where political prisoners are included in the inmates and they do forced labour. Dmcq (talk) 07:32, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Industries open to the world to compete in but utterly dominated by a region or cultural bloc

For instance international corporate law is shockingly Anglo-American. 95 of the largest firms are UK/USA and a few of the remaining are Australian.

Shipbuilding according to the latest stats (our article needs catchup) is 90-something% East Asian.

Many European countries fully participate in international finance/business and have high English fluency so the composition of the list is shocking. Many American/European countries had as late as the 70s, the majority of expertise and infrastructure, so how did that reversal happen?

Anyways, can you think of any other you-would-think open industry that is so dominated?

Lotsofissues (talk) 07:37, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

It does sound awful to dominate in law rather than producing something useful. I believe there was a state in the US which banned lawyers for a time. In Nigeria the people going to university all wanted to study law rather than anything else. Now they dominate in the email scam market. Dmcq (talk) 08:12, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Market dominance deals with some of this at a company level. Dmcq (talk) 09:04, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

You could also look at Business cluster: the theory is that specialized industries tend to cluster in a single geographic area, even when there are competing firms. --Xuxl (talk) 13:47, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Treasury bonds' risk

If everything has a residual risk, why do so many people consider treasury bonds risk free?Mr.K. (talk) 10:18, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Have a look at Risk-free interest rate#Why risk-free?. Remember that "risk-free" (in this case) generally refers to credit risk. So even if the US Treasury never defaults on its obligations, those assets may carry other market risks which is what you might be referring to as residual risk. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 10:33, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Actually, I suppose we must consider at least a tiny chance of default. Nothing can be risk-free. Nobody expects that serious governments will print money to pay debt. And what if a meteorite rain smashes major US cities?Mr.K. (talk) 10:39, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

"Serious" governments won't end up in that situation very often. Extreme events are dealt with in the link above. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 11:02, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

I'm sure Mr. K knows that risk is relative. "Risk-free" most often is verbal shorthand for "it's very unlikely that you'll lose money." Also, because some government securities sell at or below the real rate of inflation, in a sense you're paying for your low risk at the start, since the "investment" will end up with negative return. One way of looking at risk in government securities is to imagine a choice between two governments: if you could choose between a two-year U.S. treasury bond at 2.11% (the yield in the 9/30 auction), what interest would you demand from a two-year bond from the Russian or Chinese government? There's a pragmatic definition of risk. --- OtherDave (talk) 12:53, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

The way I look at it is that if the US government (or another government whose debt is considered risk-free) were to default on its debt then the economic crisis that would ensue (or, rather, that would have to be already in progress) would be so major that the maths would break down anyway so it doesn't matter that one of your assumptions proved false. For example, the efficient market hypothesis is going to fail because computer systems won't be able to cope with the volume of trades, the assumption that people are rational actors will go out the window (during panic people do not behave rationally), etc. That your risk-free rate wasn't actually risk free will be the least of your worries. --Tango (talk) 14:27, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Offline information

What kind of information can't be found online?Mr.K. (talk) 10:28, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Check out the Resource Request page and notice what sorts of requests do not get filled. Now that isn't an indication that the information is not online, but I suspect there are a few there which are not going to be found online (like the three volumes of Monograph of the land and freshwater Mollusca of the British Isles). The factors that will decrease the likelihood of finding it online are: rarity (related to age of the information and overall availability), overall public interest, storage medium of the information (information printed on bad paper in the 1700s is unlikely survive the ravages of time nor will scrolls from Ancient Greece and Rome that happened to be in the hands of monks in Medieval Europe who thought the material was worthless and erased/wrote over the material), and interest by those who enjoy the material (rapid fans of certain types of fiction are likely to make even fairly obscure pieces available). The older the information is the more likely random chance will play a role in what survives (e.g. look at the extant works of ancient authors, there may be a correlation between the artistic worth of what survives but I suspect there will be exceptions).

Another place you could check out are the master lists compiled by the folks who make scanned comics available. They have a master list of all the comics produced by different companies and mark whether a scanned copy is available. I do not have the list handy and can't quite locate a copy, but I know several exist. If I remember correctly, the list follow the factors I listed above. Older comics were less likely to be available, along with comics that were not particularly popular.--droptone (talk) 12:03, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Other possibilities:

• Why don't they just get over it?
• Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
• Does a person who posts philosophy-undergrad questions ever leave the basement, or can pizza just get downloaded?

--- OtherDave (talk) 13:01, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Expensive information

What kind of information can't be found for free?Mr.K. (talk) 10:29, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Lots of information...You cannot find out detailed information about your health (from a medical professional) without paying - either you pay, your insurance company pays or your government pays. On IMDB you cannot find out certain information without 'IMDB pro' which costs money. In stock market trading terms a lot of information is free (level 1 I think?) but information at higher levels costs extra. Most knowledge that can be sold for a profit will be sold for a profit, though similarly with the right tools and techniques a hell of a lot of that info can be found for free...Or to use a point from Good Will Hunting you spent 100 thousand on a fancy education you could've gotten for $100 in late book fees at the library. 194.221.133.226 (talk) 12:42, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Proof of address

Why do banks care where we really live? Is that regulated by law? Or do they need our addresses for a potential civil law litigation? Mr.K. (talk) 11:17, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

In Europe they must have proof of address to comply with money laundering legislation. If you deposit or withdraw a large sum they must ask you what it is for and record the answer. Itsmejudith (talk) 11:21, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Do they ask what is it for or where did it come from? What if you don't know what is if for?Mr.K. (talk) 11:40, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

They usually ask both. You can answer "general living expenses" or "top up current account". They might think that was odd if the sum was very large. Of course in the current climate you might say you felt it was safer to keep the cash under the bed and they would probably believe you. Itsmejudith (talk) 12:03, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Similar laws in the U.S. - Banks must demonstrate an attempt to avoid transactions of illegal funds. It used to be that banks should use ignorance as a defence. Now, they must show that they asked who owns the money (ie: who are you, where do you live, what do you do) and what the money is for (ie: where did you get it, what do you want to do with it). In all reality, the bank doesn't care. They are required to ask the questions, but not required to ensure the answers are truthful. -- kainaw™ 18:48, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Another reason is that if the person dies, they have a way of identifying the account. Accounts are frozen till the person in charge comes and asks for them. Yes, the Social Security number helps, but it's just another failsafe to make sure the person is receiving funds fromt he right deceased person. In fact, banks often have someone who scans the obituaries every day; if they read, "John Smoth, of 22nd Street in x township," and they have 3 John Smiths with accounts, they more easily know which one to freeze till the estate process begins.Somebody or his brother (talk) 12:40, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

do violinists get callouses the way guitar players do?

do all stringed players? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.120.232.170 (talk) 13:40, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

I am a guitarist, and not a violinist, so this is just speculation, but any activity which produces friction at the same point on the skin is likely to produce calluses. See Callus for more information. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 14:08, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Cellists certainly do, particularly on the side of the left thumb, from playing in thumb positions; to the degree that if you're as out of practice as I am, it can be quite painful until you develop the calluses. I also remember a friend once taking a week-long taster course on the sitar, and painting his fingers with something thick and robust after the first day. --ColinFine (talk) 20:11, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

fly"s eye dome

where do I buy fly"s eye domes? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.144.127.86 (talk) 14:51, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

When was the last time Michigan voted for a Republican presidential candidate?

I'm from Michigan, and I know it's a strongly democratic state (or at least it has been for the past several presidential elections), and I was just wondering when the last time was when a Republican presidential candidate won in Michigan. --Alinnisawest,^{Dalek Empress} (extermination requests here) 18:39, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

See United States presidential election, 1988 -- kainaw™ 18:42, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, kainaw! I knew it had been a while, but wasn't sure when. Kind of ironic, because Jackson, Michigan is the birthplace of the Republican party... --Alinnisawest,^{Dalek Empress} (extermination requests here) 18:45, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

You may find people who dispute that. From History of the United States Republican Party "The Little White Schoolhouse in Ripon, Wisconsin, where the Republican Party was first organized locally in 1854" - However, this apparent discrepancy is explained by the following from www.gop.com: "The first informal meeting of the party took place in Ripon, Wisconsin, a small town northwest of Milwaukee. The first official Republican meeting took place on July 6th, 1854 in Jackson, Michigan." [5] (Pick your definition of "birthplace".) -- 128.104.112.147 (talk) 23:52, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

---

The question of the "birthplace of the Republican party" is actually kind of indeterminate, since "Anti-Nebraska" meetings and coalition groups fairly spontaneously sprung up all over the northern U.S. in response to the Kansas-Nebraska act of 1854. The place of the first meeting to use the word "Republican" to describe itself (or the first meeting for which there is currently-surviving evidence that it used the word "Republican") does not mark the founding of the Republican party in any very meaningful sense... AnonMoos (talk) 05:39, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

politic in USA

Can I know the processus of appointment of high personalities in USA? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.207.217.5 (talk) 18:46, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

You can look at Politics of the United States for information on the organization of the government, Elections in the United States for information on how political leaders are elected to office, or even read the United States Constitution, which lays out the entire process officially. --Alinnisawest,^{Dalek Empress} (extermination requests here) 18:50, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

In USA, high personalities tend not to go into politics, but stick closer to the Entertainment field.--Wetman (talk) 23:26, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Some high personalities have simply claimed they stopped using years ago, when running for office. Edison (talk) 03:52, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Searching for an article on the problem of bearerless names

Salutations. I'm planning on writing an article on Meinong's Jungle, and I want to see if there are other similar articles I should look at first. The basic topic is the problem of bearerless names; that is, "how can we refer to things that don't exist?", "why is it that people seem to have serious converstaions about Harry Potter when there is no such person" etc. However, I can't find articles on The present King of France (a famous example), problem of bearerless names, non-referring names etc. The question arose most prominently around the birth of analytic philosophy amidst exchanges between Alexius Meinong, Gottlob Frege and Bertrand Russel. There's an article on the theory of descriptions, but that is only a solution to the problem. Can anyone find the Wikipedia article I am looking for? the skomorokh 20:31, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

King of France? Do you mean the Legitimist claimnant, the Orleanist claimnant, the Bonapartist claimnant, or the Jacobite claimnant? I've always found "the present King of France" to be a silly example, since you are actually discussing something that does exist. --Carnildo (talk) 21:07, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Really? Who would that august personage be, Carnildo? (Btw, 10 marks for consistency with "claimnant", but it's spelled "claimant".) -- JackofOz (talk) 22:12, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Possibly The King of France? ៛ Bielle (talk) 22:56, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

I sometimes refer to such persons as the king-subjunctive. —Tamfang (talk) 05:37, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Maybe you'll like definite description better than theory of descriptions? -Nunh-huh 04:14, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

I proposed including Image:L actuel roi de France.jpg on the Definite description article, but no one seconded my suggestion... AnonMoos (talk) 05:31, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

We have an article empty name. Algebraist 10:35, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Thank you Algebraist for hitting the jackpot, and everyone else for the entertaining sideshow! the skomorokh 12:24, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Need reference re: Aroostook War

Dear Wikipedians,

Wikipedia's article on the Aroostook War says that in February 1839, Mainers heard that the Mohawks had offered their military support to Quebec. I need to know the origin (reference, citation) for that fact, for an article I am writing on early West Branch Penobscot settlers.Mainehist (talk) 23:26, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

October 8

Opinions

Resolved

After looking up what an opinion is on Wikipedia. It made me greatly saddened that there was no truth to our personal judgments, beliefs, and thoughts. Why personally, do you live knowing that we cannot penetrate the system of nature in truth? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.170.45.41 (talk) 02:28, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Although the mysteries of life and death are ultimately unknowable, I go on living because sometimes I get pie. —Kevin Myers 04:12, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

If there was no truth whatsoever in your personal judgements, beliefs and thoughts then you might have difficulty in continuing to live. Itsmejudith (talk) 11:15, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

As a Christian, I have faith in the one who does know the unknowable, and that He (Jesus Christ) lives in me. So, faith plays a large part in how some poeple can live.Somebody or his brother (talk) 12:34, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

I think it is absolutely wrong to say that there is no truth to judgments, beliefs, thoughts. There are certainly beliefs with more truth than others. The fundamental epistemological issue is not so much whether truth is out there (which seems hard to avoid), but whether we do know it or can know it. --140.247.11.23 (talk) 14:18, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Zhuang people

I'm curious: How assimilated are these folks into the Chinese national fabric? (Are they anywhere near as assimilated as Manchu and Han?) It would be great if responders could note the extend of their Chinese studies/living experience.

Lotsofissues (talk) 08:17, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

The Zhuang are of Tai origin, a people who migrated south from central China roughly 5000 years ago. Because of their long history in China, many Zhuang are assimilated with other Chinese groups in these urban areas.

2008 Thai political crisis

Okay, so some Thai people are protesting for less elected members of parliament and more appointed members. Do they "hate freedom" or something? 118.90.128.113 (talk) 08:31, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, basically, they (once known as the People's Alliance for Democracy, good Orwellian name) hate democracy, because they are (relatively) wealthy elites from the cities and military people who don't want the majority of poor farmers to have a lot of influence on how they run the country. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.171.56.13 (talk) 09:31, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Swaziland's Territory Claims

In recent years we have seen Swaziland claiming some Territory from the Republic of South Africa and that the latter must give back the claimed territories so I want to know how far has Swaziland go in claiming the territories what measures are taken by Swaziland and if it can be possible to get the claimed land. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zikodze (talk • contribs) 09:03, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

As a practical matter, Swaziland is weaker in almost every respect than South Africa... AnonMoos (talk) 12:04, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Pashtun

I am confused. Are the Pashtun people of Pakistan are really Pashto-speaking Pakistanis or Afghanistan? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.204.74.18 (talk) 14:29, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

There are both Pashtuns from Afghanistan and Pashtuns from Pakistan living in Pakistan -- but some Pashtuns think it would be a lot better to have a separate Pakhtunistan in place of the current Pakistan-Afghanistan border... AnonMoos (talk) 17:28, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Baloch sindhi film industry

There is no Baloch or Sindhi film industry in Pakistan? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.204.74.18 (talk) 14:52, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Sure there is. List of Sindhi-language films and this google search should help. Fribbler (talk) 14:57, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Cults

I have a question about cults that has been puzzling me for a long time. I have read the article on cults and it's very informative but I still have some doubts. See cults may happen to be initiated by or grown around a single personality but they often continue after the founder is gone, the leadership taken by some other member. Now this new member also joined the group at some time, no doubt believing in the legitimacy of the cult's basic tenets. Now assuming we are talking about real "cults" (the kind that mislead people), how long does it take for a new member to be "in on the secret", and thus be in a position to run the cult? Secondly, why does he/she do it, why don't they just spill the beans... what motivates members to perpetuate the fraud? Take the case of scientology, Ron Hubbard may have started it out of whatever motivation, but how many of the group (obviously top of the hierarchy) know what the real deal is, when did they come to know about it, and why did they chose to perpetuate the myth? The question is why, how, and why do the "preys" (ones that were taken in by the chincanery) become the "predators" (that is ones who run the whole thing and attract new converts). Thank you very much. -- ReluctantPhilosopher(talk)

The people who lead a cult after the death of the founder may well be true believers, even to the point of being martyrs for the cause, rather than the cynical con men you posit, who share the "secret" that it is a scam. Some cults really get going only after the founder is dead, and are spread by people who never met him. Edison (talk) 15:55, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

My question is about the cynical con men who share the secret. ReluctantPhilosopher (talk) 16:55, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Only God knows the difference.--Wetman (talk) 17:00, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

If those who take over are cynical con men or woman (and please note the "If"; I take no position on this), then, as with con men and woman in every field, the cult is merely the background or environment in which they operate their scam. A scam is a scam -in the boardroom, the church, a living room, a club. What the con person gets out of any one of them is a mix of personal power and prestige, along with worldy goods, all to feed a massive ego. ៛ Bielle (talk) 17:39, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

what makes a new edition of a book?

What constitutes a new edition of a book? We are discussing this at talk:Basic Chess Endings. The hardback book came out in 1941, and it was reprinted at least as late as 1960. Some of them had "second edition" and "fourth edition" although there was no change at all to the text. (I consider these reprints, not new editions.) Starting about 1969 to 1971 paperback copies were printed with exactly the same text. At least ten paperback printings were done. So if the text has not changed, can it be a new edition? (The book was revised in 2003.) Bubba73 (talk), 17:32, 8 October 2008 (UTC)