User talk:Khoikhoi/Archived and Keighley & Worth Valley Railway: Difference between pages

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
< User talk:Khoikhoi
(Difference between pages)
Content deleted Content added
VisualWikitext
 
 
Line 1: Line 1:
[[Image:Ivatt tank Keighley & Worth Valley Railway.jpg|thumb|right|234px|Ivatt 2MT 2-6-2T 41241 at Haworth station]]
<center><div style="background-color: #f0f0ff; border: none; padding: 5px; width: 750px;">Archives: '''[[User talk:Khoikhoi/Archive 1|1]]''', '''[[User talk:Khoikhoi/Archive 2|2]]''', '''[[/Archive 3|3]]''', '''[[/Archive 4|4]]''', '''[[/Archive 5|5]]''', '''[[/Archive 6|6]]''', '''[[/Archive 7|7]]''', '''[[/Archive 8|8]]''', '''[[/Archive 9|9]]''', '''[[/Archive 10|10]]''', '''[[/Archive 11|11]]''', '''[[/Archive 12|12]]''', '''[[/Archive 13|13]]''', '''[[/Archive 14|14]]''', '''[[/Archive 15|15]]''', '''[[/Archive 16|16]]''', '''[[/Archive 17|17]]''', '''[[/Archive 18|18]]''', '''[[/Archive 19|19]]''', '''[[/Archive 20|20]]''', '''[[/Archive 21|21]]''', '''[[/Archive 22|22]]''', '''[[/Archive 23|23]]''', '''[[/Archive 24|24]]''', '''[[/Archive 25|25]]''', '''[[/Archive 26|26]]''', '''[[/Archive 27|27]]''', '''[[/Archive 28|28]]''', '''[[/Archive 29|29]]''', '''[[/Archive 30|30]]''', '''[[/Archive 31|31]]''', '''[[/Archive 32|32]]'''.</div></center>
[[Image:227113 20f9b0cdThePlatformOxenhopeRailwayStationTerminusOfTheKeighley&WorthValleyRailway(NigelHomer)Aug2006.jpg|right|thumb|234px|The Platform, Oxenhope Railway Station, terminus of the Keighley and Worth Valley Railway (photo by Nigel Homer, 2006)]]
[[Image:Signal box and train.jpg|thumb|234px|right|Damems Junction signal box]]


The '''Keighley and Worth Valley Railway''' is a five-mile (eight-km) long [[heritage railway]] line in [[West Yorkshire]], [[England]], that runs from [[Keighley]] to [[Oxenhope]]. It connects to the national rail network line at Keighley. It is currently the first and only Heritage Railway that operates a whole branch line in its original form.


==History==
==Muslim Scientist sounds wrong!==
The line was built in 1867 by local [[mill (factory)|mill]] owners, but operated by the [[Midland Railway]], which owned most of the rail network in the area, and was eventually bought by the Midland.
When we talk about Galileo we don't say he was a Christian scientist!
All great scientists are known by their nationality not by their religion.
Calling Ibn al-Haytham a "Muslim Scientist" makes him sound inferior.
As if he is not a great scientist...he is a "Muslim scientist"...
Do you see my point?


After becoming part of the [[London, Midland and Scottish Railway]] in 1923, ownership passed to [[British Rail]]ways following nationalisation in 1948. As a part of the rail cutbacks in the [[1960s]], British Railways closed the line at the end of 1962.
MA - 20 August 2008 <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/203.26.177.2|203.26.177.2]] ([[User talk:203.26.177.2|talk]]) 05:48, 20 August 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->


However a preservation society was formed which bought the line from BR and reopened it in 1968 as a heritage railway. The line is now a major tourist attraction operated entirely by volunteers and carries more than 110,000 passengers every year. The KWVR is currently the only preserved railway that operates a complete branch line in its original form. It is celebrated among beer lovers for operating the only [[buffet car]] serving [[real ale]].
==I Put years of effort into making this! And YOU delet it!==
I'm Joe Hamilton, I was wondering why you deleted my page [[Mike Kerr]]? I took a long time interviewing people, researching and perfecting that article. It's OK if you don't put it back on here, but I would like to have the article so I can keep it for personal records. SO PLEASE re-consider re-posting my article or simply sending it back to me so I can keep it in a file. It took a long time to get all the info in with I have gotten.


The line and its bridges and tunnels including a deviation were built as [[single track (rail)|single track]] but with provision for [[double track|duplication]], should the need arise.
Thankyou,
Joe Hamilton <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:JoeHamiltonIs111|JoeHamiltonIs111]] ([[User talk:JoeHamiltonIs111|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/JoeHamiltonIs111|contribs]]) 02:32, 12 August 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->


==Stations and facilities==
==Nezami==
*[[Keighley railway station|Keighley]]
Stylistic edition? Would be very very glad and grateful [[User:Sfrandzi|Sfrandzi]] ([[User talk:Sfrandzi|talk]]) 19:09, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
**Mainline Connections to [[Leeds]], [[Bradford]], [[Skipton]], [[Carlisle]], [[Lancaster, Lancashire|Lancaster]], [[Morecambe]] and [[London]] King's Cross
**Railway Shop and Buffet
**Turntable
**Picnic Area
**Station restored to BR 1950s condition complete with cast-iron platform canopy
*[[Ingrow (West) railway station|Ingrow West]]
**Access to the Vintage Carriages Trust's [[Museum of Rail Travel]]
**Access to the [[Bahamas Locomotive Society]] Museum "[[Ingrow Loco]]"
**Car parking
*[[Damems railway station|Damems]]
**The smallest standard-gauge railway station in Britain, complete with Waiting Room, Booking Office, Signal Box & Level Crossing
**Lit by [[gas lighting|gas]] and heated by coal stoves
**Featured as [["Ormston"]] in the [[BBC]]'s [[Born and Bred]]
*[[Oakworth railway station|Oakworth]]
**Famous as the location for the filming of the 1970 film ''[[The Railway Children (film)|The Railway Children]]'', starring [[Jenny Agutter]], [[Dinah Sheridan]], [[Bernard Cribbins]], [[Sally Thomsett]] and [[Gary Warren]]
**Restored to Edwardian condition, the station is lit by gas lamps
**Heated by up to four coal fires in winter (around eight months each year)
**Car Parking (for 'Horseless Carriages')
*[[Haworth railway station|Haworth]]
**Railway shop
**Picnic area and engine shed viewing area
**Access to Haworth Village and the [[Brontë]] Parsonage
**Gas lit platform
**An example of a 1950s country station
*[[Oxenhope railway station|Oxenhope]]
**New [[National Lottery|Heritage Lottery Fund]]-supported Exhibition Shed, contains locomotives and carriages not currently in use and explains their history and that of the line as a whole
**Railway shop and buffet
**Car parking
**Bus connections to [[Hebden Bridge]]
**Gas-lit platform, car park and waiting room


==Special events==
*During Summer 2008, 45212 is expected to return for the final of its 3 visits permitted during its 10 year boiler certificate, to participate in an event to mark 40 years since the end of steam on BR.


==Operational steam locomotives==
Tafresh - small town in 65 km. from Qom, it is possible to tell suburb of Qom and consequently, how much I can believe - in sources they are interchangeable: one write "Tafresh", others "Qom" though actually the text to which refer, speaks about Tafresh, and not itself Tafresh, but village about it. But Qom it much better known, and, probably, therefore in most cases prefer to name it. It seems, medieval biographer of Nezami Lutf Ali Bey names Qom, but it is not considered, how the contradiction and the special version in comparison with version of Tafresh. On the second item. Bertels - the unique Soviet reference. Other Russian-speaking references - postSoviet. In any case Evgenij Bertels - the scientist of a world scale [http://disaweb.ub.uu.se/cgi-bin/chameleon?host=localhost%208045%20DEFAULT&search=SCAN&function=INITREQ&SourceScreen=COPVOLSCR&sessionid=716&skin=default&conf=.%2Fchameleon.conf&lng=en&itemu1=1003&scant1=Osma%C5%84czyk,%20Edmund%20Jan&scanu1=1003&u1=1003&t1=Bertel%CA%B9s,%20Evgenij%20Eduardovi%C4%8D&pos=1&prevpos=1&beginsrch=1] [http://www.smi.uib.no/library/suboq.html], and regarding of the message of the facts (and I use of he only for this purpose) he is so reliable, as any large scientist. [[User:Sfrandzi|Sfrandzi]] ([[User talk:Sfrandzi|talk]]) 10:22, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
[[Image:80002-BRClass4.JPG|thumb|right|80002]]
*BR 2-6-4T [[BR standard class 4 tank|Class 4MT]] no. 80002 (Used regularly, especially in summer, boiler ticket expires in 2015)
*[[Lancashire & Yorkshire Railway|L&Y]] 0-6-0 [[L&YR Class 25|Class 25 "Ironclad"]] no. 957 (later BR Class 2F no. 52044, boiler ticket expires in 2011) (Used on summer vintage trains and during special events)
*[[London Midland and Scottish Railway|LMS]] 2-6-2T [[LMS Class 2MT 2-6-2T|Class 2MT]] no. 41241 (Used regularly)
*[[London Midland and Scottish Railway|LMS]] 0-6-0T [[LMS Class 3F "Jinty" 0-6-0T|Class 3F "Jinty"]] no. 47279 (Used regularly. boiler ticket expires in 2011)
*[[Taff Vale Railway]] 0-6-2T no. 85 (Used regularly, boiler ticket expires in June 2009)
*[[British Rail|BR]] 2-8-0 [[WD class 8F 2-8-0|Austerity]] no. 90733 (In regular use, boiler ticket expires in 2017)
*[[Hudswell Clarke]] 0-6-0T no. 1704 "Nunlow" steam tested and moved under its own power 6th June 2008. (Boiler ticket expires 2018)


==Steam Locomotives undergoing light repair==
:::"The tradition names two Persian-speaking... " and " Academics have named... " In this phrase I meant medieval tradition, i.e. primary sources, i.e. that makes factual basis of a question. And further described is already the attitude to inconsistent messages of tradition of a modern science, "academics". [[User:Sfrandzi|Sfrandzi]] ([[User talk:Sfrandzi|talk]]) 11:14, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
*


==Steam locomotives under overhaul or restoration==
==Gulmammad==
*[[BR standard class 4 4-6-0]] no. 75078 (Undergoing a ten year overhaul. Boiler away for overhaul. Completion is due for 2014)
*[[Midland Railway 3835 Class]] 0-6-0 (LMS Class 4F) no. 43924 (Stripped down for restoration. Good progress is being made on the overhaul, which is focusing on the frames presently. Boiler away for overhaul. Completion is expected in 2012)
*[[London and North Eastern Railway|LNER]] 0-6-0ST [[LNER Class J94|Class J94]] no. 68077 (Undergoing overhaul at the [[Spa Valley Railway]] where the loco's dismantling is nearly done)
*SR 4-6-2 [[SR West Country Class|West Country Class]] no. 34092 [[Wells|"City of Wells"]] (The boiler cladding is now all on and the boiler is now being tackled. The engine is expected to steam in 2009)
*[[USATC S160 Class]] 2-8-0 no. 5820 "Big Jim" (Under restoration; the frames are making good progress. Driving wheels re-tyred. Most brake and suspension parts have been overhauled or renewed. Refitting has begun. New tender bogies require some modification.)
*[[LNWR Webb Coal Tank]] 0-6-2T no. 1054 (Undergoing restoration at Ingrow Workshops with work on the frames and boiler going well)
*[[LMS]] 0-6-0ST [[L&YR Class 23]] No 752. Undergoing restoration, the frames, smokebox and saddle tank are just about finished and the boiler has been steam tested, a few more jobs need to be done like putting the locomotive back together again, planned to be in traffic in 2008.


==Stored and static steam locomotives==
Hi Khoikhoi. Since you are familiar with the issue, you may wish to respond [[Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Arbitration_enforcement#User:Gulmammad|here]]. [[User:Pocopocopocopoco|Pocopocopocopoco]] ([[User talk:Pocopocopocopoco|talk]]) 04:36, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
*BR 2-6-0 [[BR standard class 2 2-6-0|Class 2MT]] no. 78022. (Withdrawn for ten year overhaul in 2002 and is currently on display in the museum at Oxenhope. It is expected that the overhaul will begin in 2010)
*[[Great Western Railway|GWR]] 0-6-0PT [[GWR 5700 Class|5700 Class]] no. 5775. On display at Oxenhope. (Not expected to enter the workshops before 2019)
*[[Lancashire & Yorkshire Railway|L&Y]] 0-4-0ST [[L&YR Class 21|Class 21 "Pug"]] no. 68 (later BR Class 0F no. 51218). (Stored awaiting overhaul which is planned to start once 752 is finished)
*LMS 4-6-0 [[LMS Jubilee Class|Class 5XP Jubilee]] no. [[LMS Jubilee Class 5596 Bahamas|45596]] "Bahamas". (Awaiting overhaul. Funding is being arranged by the Bahamas Trust, and work will begin upon completion of the 'Coal Tank')
*LMS 2-8-0 [[LMS Class 8F 2-8-0|Class 8F]] no. 48431. (On display in the museum at Oxenhope)
*[[Southern Railway (UK)|SR]] 0-6-0T [[SR Class USA|Class USA]] no. 30072. (On display in the Oxenhope museum, requires extensive firebox repairs. Not expected to enter the workshops before 2019)
*[[MSC]] 0-6-0ST no. 31 Hamburg. (Requires a new inner firebox and a general overhaul)
*[[LMR]] 0-6-0ST no. 118 "Brussels". (Requires a general overhaul)
*[[Andrew Barclay]] 0-4-0ST no. 2258 "Tiny". (On display at Ingrow awaiting a general overhaul, owned by the Bahamas trust)
*[[Robert Stephenson and Hawthorns]] 0-4-0 [[crane tank]] no. 7069 "Southwick". (On display at Ingrow awaiting overhaul)
*[[Manning Wardle]] 0-4-0ST "Lord Mayor". (On display at Ingrow awaiting overhaul)


==Operational diesel locomotives==
== Hi agin ==
*BR 0-6-0 [[Hudswell Clarke]] ([[British Rail Class D2/12]]) [[shunter]] no. D2511. In use as the Works train shunter after a recent engine and cylinder liner repair.
*BR 0-6-0 [[British Rail Class 08|Class 08]] no. 13336 (ex-08266). In use but restricted to Haworth yard duties as the Locomotive is currently suffering from worn tyres. Appeared at 2008 Diesel Gala working shuttles between Keighley and Ingrow.
*[[Port of Bristol|Port of Bristol Authority]] Diesel Mechanical 0-6-0 no. 23 "Merlin". In use, currently at Oxenhope station as it is the carriage and wagon shunter.
*BR Bo-Bo [[British Rail Class 25|Class 25]] no. 25059 (ex-D5209). In service following repairs.


==Diesel locomotives under repair==
Please would you have a look at [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Arbitration_enforcement#User:Gulmammad here]. This is my life in Wikipedia. I cannot work on articles that I created because Poco is around. I won't mind if you block me. Thanks. <b>[[User:Gulmammad|<font face="Edwardian Script ITC" size="4" color="#009900">Gülməmməd</font>]] [[User talk:Gulmammad|<sup><font face="Edwardian Script ITC" size="2" color="#999900">Talk</font></sup>]]</b> 04:41, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
*BR 0-6-0 [[British Rail D0226|Prototype EE shunter]] no. D226 "Vulcan". Suffered a main generator failure in June 2006 and has also developed bearing problems. A group have now started the overhaul of the engine.
*[[Mersey Docks and Harbour Board]] Diesel Mechanical 0-6-0 no. 32 "Huskisson". Currently undergoing a long delayed axlebox overhaul.
*BR Bo-Bo [[British Rail Class 20|Class 20]] no. D8031 (ex-20031). Returned to traffic in July 2006 after a generator repair. Out of service again due to main generator bearing failure.


==Operational diesel multiple units==
== Demographics of Azerbaijan ==
*BR [[British Rail Class 108|Class 108]] unit 50928+51565. Both are in regular use but when the 101 set is in traffic this set will be withdrawn for overhaul.
*BR [[British Rail Railbuses|Railbuses]] No 79964. In regular use on morning diesel services.


==Diesel multiple units under overhaul or restoration==
Good of you to have caught the vandalism with the Kurds and the Udins (also the "Ahiska" Tukrs?). Much appreciated. Could you please also verify (or revert) the change of spelling from ''Sakhurs'' to ''Tsakhurs'' on 26 May 2008 (institutional IP). Thanks. --[[User:Zlerman|Zlerman]] ([[User talk:Zlerman|talk]]) 07:14, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
*BR [[British Rail Class 101|Class 101]] unit 51803+51189. Under restoration. Both vehicle's mechanical restorations have been done and both are shortly going to be painted in BR blue. The unit is expected to start carrying passengers in 2007.
*BR [[British Rail Railbuses|Railbuses]] No 79962. Currently stored and sheeted over in Haworth yard, the engines restoration has been finished and once shed space is available the body, wheels and frames will be restored. It is expected to be finished in 2008 which is the railways 40th anniversery of when it was first preserved.


==Locomotive notes==
== Javad Qajar ==
*'Black Five' no.45212 is operational but currently based on the North Yorkshire Moors Railway, as part of a deal which will see it running there until it has covered 70,000 miles. This could take the entire 10-year duration of the boiler ticket.
*'Coal Tank' no.1054 is currently undergoing overhaul at Ingrow. Once its owning group have completed the repairs, attention will be focused on returning "Bahamas" to traffic.
*Steam Engines in line for a return to steam before the end of the decade are no.34092 "City Of Wells", and no.43924, which was the first engine salvaged from Barry Scrapyard in South Wales to be returned to steam on a heritage line, back in the 1970s.
*Somerset & Dorset Railway 7F 2-8-0 no.53809, currently based at the Midland Railway Butterley, is due to visit the K&WVR in Autumn for their second steam gala of the year. This will be the locomotive's second visit, as it spent time on the railway during the 1980s.
*Class 101 vehicle No 51803 is operational but out of service awaiting a repaint in BR blue livery, 51189's interior and mechanical restoration is nearing completion and it to is awaiting a reapaint. The unit will hopefully be ready for service in 2007 allowing the 108 set to be withdrawn for repairs.


==Vintage carriages==
Thanks for reminding. Sorrowfully I did not notice any relable source for those part of the Javad Khan article before being added some points. First of all you have to source the primary version and then I shall insert the required sources there . The Azerbaijani version of the Wikipedia is full of fabrications made for the sake of pseudopatriotism. Please do not interfere with English version and let it to be maintained out of falsification. Personally learn Iranian history of Qajar period. At the time while Javad khan Qajar ruled his government in Ganja, whole Arran (or Aran-zamin) was part of Iran till 1828. As clear, the collapce of Ganja Khanate took place before the Turkmenchay Treaty. And to direct to the logics, Azerbaijan is a name for Arran land was innovated by Mammad Amin Rasulzadeh after the independency from Russian Empire in 1918. Please notice the difference. Most of the English speaking scholars quite well informed and they rarely search for the Wikipedian knowledge. And also the common europians rare interested in such of personalities as Javad Qajar. He is widely recognized by easterners themselves and we should not deceive them. Javad Khane`s patrimonial properties are still maintained in Khoy,Iran. To cut the subject short, please first source the compounds that you find to be true. Later on apply me and I shall see what can I do.
The railway has a large collection of Vintage Carriages. Some are used to carry passengers on specially selected open days.
All the best.--[[User:Faikpro|Faikpro]] ([[User talk:Faikpro|talk]]) 14:43, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
[[Image:Metropolitan 465 'Dreadnought' 9-compartment third built 1919.jpg|thumb|Metropolitan 465 'Dreadnought' 9-compartment third built 1919]]
[[Image:SR 3554 'Matchboard' Continental Brake third built 1924.jpg|thumb|SR 3554 'Matchboard' Continental Brake third built 1924]]
*[[Great Northern Railway]] 1867 (body only). Stored awaiting restoration.
*[[Manchester, Sheffield and Lincolnshire Railway|MSLR]] 4-wheeler Tricomposite 154 built in 1876. Operational.
*[[Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway]] 6-wheeler five compartment third 1507 built in 1882. In regular vintage train use.
*[[Midland Railway]] 6-wheeler Composite 258 built in 1886. On static display at Ingrow.
*[[Great Northern Railway]] 6-wheeler Brake Third 589 built in 1888. Used for filming use.
*[[Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway]] 6-wheeler 4 compartment first 279 built in 1894. In the restoration queue, could be worked on once 47 is completed.
*[[Great Northern Railway]] Composite Lavatory Brake 2856 built in 1896. In regular vintage train use.
*[[NER]] Clerestory Saloon 1661 built in 1904. In regular vintage train use.
*[[Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway]] Director's Saloon 135 built in 1908. On static display at Oxenhope.
*[[Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway]] Brake Third 1474 built in 1910. In regular vintage train use.
*[[Metropolitan Railway]] 'Dreadnought' Brake 427 built in 1910. In regular vintage train use.
*[[Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway]] Blackpool Club Car 47 built in 1912. Interior restoration progressing.
*[[Metropolitan Railway]] 'Dreadnought' 9 compartment third 465 built in 1919. Out of service.
*[[Metropolitan Railway]] 'Dreadnought' 7 compartment first 509. In regular vintage train use.
*[[Southern Railway (Great Britain)|Southern Railway]] 'Matchboard' Continental Brake Third built in 1924. In regular vintage train use.


==Use In film and television==
== Please look into a restricted editor's recent activity ==
The line and its stations has been used numerous period film and television productions including films ''[[The Railway Children (film)|The Railway Children]]'' and ''[[Yanks]]'' & in an episode of the longest running sitcom [[Last of the Summer Wine]] in 1979.


==External links==
Hi. I noticed your comment at [[User talk:Pocopocopocopoco]] regarding [[Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan_2]]. The user has recently nominated a number of articles for speedy deletion, and I'm trying to assume good faith, but his actions may have been inappropriate. Please look at [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3APocopocopocopoco&diff=227509534&oldid=227120626 this] and the page history [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Khojaly_Massacre&action=history here], then [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Khojaly_Genocide&diff=227503967&oldid=227503795 this]. He nominated several others as well, though they were mainly misspellings. - [[User:Richardcavell|Richard Cavell]] ([[User talk:Richardcavell|talk]]) 22:43, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
{{commonscat|Keighley and Worth Valley Railway}}
*[http://www.kwvr.co.uk/ Keighley and Worth Valley Railway website]
*[http://www.ingrowrailwaycentre.co.uk Ingrow Railway Centre website]
*[http://www.thesectionalappendix.co.uk/NERS76.html British Railways in 1960 - Keighley to Oxenhope]


{{Heritage railways in England}}
:I have responded at [[User_talk:Richardcavell#My_nominations_for_speedy_deletion|Richardcavell's talk page]]. Be assured that the nomination for speedy deletion was in good faith as I thought it was a [[WP:BOLD|no brainer]]. If Richardcavell feels that the nomination for speedy deletion was inappropriate I will take it to [[WP:RFD|redirects for discussion]] instead. [[User:Pocopocopocopoco|Pocopocopocopoco]] ([[User talk:Pocopocopocopoco|talk]]) 23:10, 23 July 2008 (UTC)


[[Category:Heritage railways in England]]
== Stalkin ==
[[Category:Visitor attractions in Bradford]]

I'd like to bring to your attention that [[User:VartanM]] has been stalking me around. I have always hoped it would stop but his recent comment on my comment [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:87.120.150.152 here] shows this is not going to end and becoming a serious problem. I therefore asked a help via <nowiki>{{help me}}</nowiki> template and [[User:TenPoundHammer|Ten Pound Hammer]] [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AGulmammad&diff=227734956&oldid=227733062 recommended] me to ask [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:AN#Stalking here]. But in [[WP:AN]] seems no-one wants to help me. This is really very frustrating and I don't see any good environment around me to stay here. Please have a look at [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:87.120.150.152 here] by putting yourself in my place then advise me what to do. Thank you. <b>[[User:Gulmammad|<font face="Edwardian Script ITC" size="4" color="#009900">Gülməmməd</font>]] [[User talk:Gulmammad|<sup><font face="Edwardian Script ITC" size="2" color="#999900">Talk</font></sup>]]</b> 02:54, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

== KhoiKhoi is a Kurd ==
This user clearly says that He is interested on articles about Kurds. Actually, this is a part of PKK plan to create sick-minded history and fake map for virtual KURDISTAN!!!!. PKK is a terrorist kurdish invader group operating in Turkey and Iranian (south) Azerbaijan,

This user's responsibility is to help hiding facts. Kurds themselves know that they are migrated to west part of south Azerbaijan and are minority there. They know that there tones of ancient maps showing borders of Atropatane (Azerbaijan). But they don't care, because they have this hypothesis: if a kurd one day sleep in a non-kurdish city anywhere in the world, that city is kudish city and we should consider it inside silly map of Fake Kurdistan!!
You will see very soon they will say Finland and Sweden are a part of Kurdistan, as there are more than 10,000 kurds there.

Khoikhoi, you and other kurds can advertise some silly maps of a fake land called kurdistan and you can million times edit wikipedia page of west azerbaijan of Iran, but question is can you obtain Azeri lands in reality? I am sure you can't. you are just 5-6 million in iran, but azeris are above 30 million referring to Iranian government reports. you think american and european or even persians will help you??
i say a little,but not too much. Because Turkey is very important for them and they don't want very angry turkey. Persians in Iran definetlay want to support you, but they know Azeris will be mad of this and will destroy entire iran, as they are 40-50% of Iran and they control army and economy in Tehran.

I don't say this story to you as i am sure you are brain washed kurd and will not affect you. i am saying this to open mind users.
you can call me whatever you like, editing war, POV etc.
simply i don't care. if you have power to block one IP i will come with another one. I am very very serious to defend Azerbaijan in virtual war started by Kurds and Persians againt Azeris and some Europeans or Americans are interested to slightly help them, but who cares from Azeris, we are very strong people with very high self confidence.


July 24th, Sehend1 <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/128.220.159.9|128.220.159.9]] ([[User talk:128.220.159.9|talk]]) 15:57, 25 July 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->


== Name of Vlore ==

Why are you undoing my article of Vlore?? I'm simply removing the greek neme since this language neither is official in Albania nor there is any greek speaking population in the city. Is there any city of Greece which has the Albanian version of the name? Also there is another error with "locally Vlone or Vlona". The city is refered as Vlone or Vlona in Gheg dialect (a dialect spoken in Northern Albania, Kosovo, Fyrom, Montenegro, e.i. in the northern part of the Albanosphere, while the city falls in Tosk (the dialect of South Albania) are and the locals refer to the city simply as Vlore or Vlora. I am from Vlora myself hence I am absolutely sure for what I am saying. Or at least we should clarify the meaning of the term "locally"; it is refered to the inhabitants of Vlora or to overall population of Albania? [[User:Asdreni|Asdreni]] ([[User talk:Asdreni|talk]]) 09:26, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

:The city was founded by ancient Greeks and has been known by that name for centuries. That alone is sufficient to warrant the inclusion of the Greek name in the lead per [[WP:NCGN]]. --[[User:Tsourkpk|Tsourkpk]] ([[User talk:Tsourkpk|talk]]) 17:10, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Speaking of socks, can anything be done about this Asdreni guy and the various IPs? His first talk page comment being "Damn Gayreeks, your names don't belong here!", I can't say I'm too optimistic... [[User:3rdAlcove|3rdAlcove]] ([[User talk:3rdAlcove|talk]]) 22:18, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I really don't like getting admins, that aren't already acquainted with a particular issue, involved for a number of reasons. Thanks, anyway. [[User:3rdAlcove|3rdAlcove]] ([[User talk:3rdAlcove|talk]]) 22:55, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

If you're willing to get him involved, certainly. I'll stick to "rvv" myself, until he tires out. [[User:3rdAlcove|3rdAlcove]] ([[User talk:3rdAlcove|talk]]) 23:02, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

== IRC ==

Yes, it was me, but I noticed the message only after you had left. If you want to talk, I can give you my IM username. [[User:Bogdangiusca|bogdan]] ([[User talk:Bogdangiusca|talk]]) 23:45, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

== 72.44.80.113 ==

IP 72.44.80.113 is probably sock of Sehend1. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/72.44.80.113] He started reverting on Iranian provinces. --[[User:Larno Man|Larno Man]] ([[User talk:Larno Man|talk]]) 18:42, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

== Javad Qajar Khoei ==

I have some old correspondence and other historic documents in Baku. They are on Javad Qajar's birth history. I have applied to get them by email. Sorowfully limited info on Qajar available via Internet. You may edit my info added to Javad Khan article unless I present facts. All the best. --[[User:Faikpro|Faikpro]] ([[User talk:Faikpro|talk]]) 19:19, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

== Asdreni sock ==

I've blocked indefinitely. If he returns, I'll extend Asdreni's block and semi-protect the page. I don't think this guy's made any sleeper accounts, so CU isn't needed IMO. <span style="background:#E0FFFF;color:#007FFF;font-family:Georgia;">[[User:Nishkid64|Nishkid64]] </span><sub>([[User talk:Nishkid64|Make articles, not wikidrama]])</sub> 20:09, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

==Bitlis==

We are at it again. Someone is removing references and referenced paragraphs in Bitlis article. I restored some. I again appealed in the discussion page for more respect to other users. Hope I will not be accused of any wrong doing.--[[User:Hudavendigar|Murat]] ([[User talk:Hudavendigar|talk]]) 04:02, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

:The "references" and nationalistic POV being removed are backed by extremely questionable sources. The Zaman source, with its commentary from "Törehan Serdar, head of the Association of Victims of World War I Massacres by Armenians", is undoubtedly an attempt at POV pushing. Here is the Sutherland "source"[http://www.tallarmeniantale.com/niles-sutherland.htm] and this is the NY times "source"[http://www.tallarmeniantale.com/nyt-bias.htm]. Along with the ultra-nationlistic rants, tall armenian tale website is also historically ignorant. From said website;<br />
<blockquote>
"''The U.S. wasn't at war with Turkey, but America was certainly allied with the Allies. '''MARCH 6, 1916'''''"....
</blockquote>
Sadly, whoever runs that site is so historically ignorant. From the [[World War I]] wiki-source; "....Wilson called for war on Germany, which the U.S. Congress declared on '''6 April 1917'''."
All this has been discussed on the Bitlis talk[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bitlis] page [[User:Kansas Bear|Kansas Bear]] ([[User talk:Kansas Bear|talk]]) 17:19, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

::This has been discussed at length. References are real. The events are real. Quesionable only from certain POV. This is all that needs to be said. There was no reference to tallarmeniantale, as that is not the source of any of the references I made. That site may contain valid references itself but was not used by this user. If that concerned about POV pushing why not apply the same sensitivity to the rest of the article, I may refer you to an article about [[Erich Feigl]] here also! <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Hudavendigar|Hudavendigar]] ([[User talk:Hudavendigar|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Hudavendigar|contribs]]) 02:04, 31 July 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:::TAT is not and will never be a reliable source. [[User:VartanM|VartanM]] ([[User talk:VartanM|talk]]) 02:33, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Is it a revert when I restore material (one sentence!) and numerous references that have been outright deleted that I had placed there in the first place? I have not undone enyone's edit but restored the one I had done originally. Should not the same apply to others? There was no revert but restoration of parts removed. Also I always discuss this in the talk page. Results are there for you to see, there is no interest in compromise, though I do not even know what is there left to compromise in one short sentence. By the way, objectors are not even discussing the fact, but just the quality of references. They have recourse to argue this properly, but that was not done. Isn't there any restricition on anyone else to at least refrain from deleting paragraphs and references?--[[User:Hudavendigar|Murat]] ([[User talk:Hudavendigar|talk]]) 14:07, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

By the way, this one sentence, which was a paragraph originally I had edited in, was removed, not edited, 7 times in the last two months. I had discussed it at length, provided more references and finally reduced it to a single sentence. It was still removed. Since I had placed the references, is it not the obligation of the party removing it to take it to arbitration instead of continuous deletion?--[[User:Hudavendigar|Murat]] ([[User talk:Hudavendigar|talk]]) 14:37, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

==Imam images==
In case you are around, GreenEcho (the 12-headed sockpuppetteer now known as User:Enforcing Neutrality) has decided to delete all images from Shi'a pages. I would ask you to investigate as it is ''against'' consensus and I cannot revert against him. ''' [[User:Emilyzilch|<font color=#BA55D3>Naahid بنت الغلان]] '''</font><sup><small>[[User_Talk:Emilyzilch|<font color=#BA55D3>Click to talk]]</sup></small> 02:58, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

== Re: ==

Please discuss at [[Talk:Twelve Imams]] before reverting so as to avoid edit warring. [[User:Enforcing Neutrality|En Ne]] <small>[[User talk:Enforcing Neutrality|talk]]</small> 03:16, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

==RfB Thank You spam==
<div style="float: left; border:solid green 1px; margin: 1px;">
{| cellspacing="0" cellpadding="4" style=" background: #FFE4B5;"
|style=" background: #FFE4B5; text-align: center;" rowspan="2" | '''[[Image:Wikipedia logo (svg).svg|60px]]'''
|'''Thank you for participating in my RfB!''' I am very grateful for the confidence of the community shown at [[Wikipedia:Requests for bureaucratship/Rlevse|my RfB]], which passed by a count of 154/7/2 (95.65%). I have read every word of the RfB and taken it all to heart. I truly appreciate everyone's input: supports, opposes, neutrals, and comments. Of course, I plan to conduct my cratship in service of the community. If you have any advice, questions, concerns, or need help, please [[User talk:Rlevse|let me know]]. Again, Thanks! <span style="font-family: verdana;"> — [[User:Rlevse|<span style="color:#060;">'''''R''levse'''</span>]] • [[User_talk:Rlevse|<span style="color:#990;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 08:48, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
|-
|
|}</div>

== Kind request ==

Since you're interested ancient history, can you please take a look at [[Talk:Roman%E2%80%93Persian_Wars#Tags]]? --[[User:CreazySuit|CreazySuit]] ([[User talk:CreazySuit|talk]]) 20:07, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

==Question==
Hey Khoikhoi. Do you know by chance why is my talk page still listed under "Categories: Temporary Wikipedian userpages"? I thought you might know, since you handled the request. Thanks. ([[User:Papa Carlo|PaC]] ([[User talk:Papa Carlo|talk]]) 22:43, 29 July 2008 (UTC))
:Thanks ([[User:Papa Carlo|PaC]] ([[User talk:Papa Carlo|talk]]) 22:54, 29 July 2008 (UTC))

==Mirgheca==

I said he should use footnotes, use better English if possible, and try (per consensus between Bogdan, Dahn and me) not to create articles on villages, instead including information on them in articles on the commune they're part of. I'll have a look there and add in some categories. [[User:Biruitorul|Biruitorul]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Biruitorul|Talk]]</sup></small> 01:26, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
:I'm not opposed to the idea, but I do wish we had some sources to work off. I'll give it a look later. [[User:Biruitorul|Biruitorul]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Biruitorul|Talk]]</sup></small> 14:25, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

== My Discussion Page! ==

Hi Khoi. I was trying to archive my user's talk page,but apprearently I screwd it up. Can you help with that regard? Many thanks --[[User:Kaaveh Ahangar|Kaaveh]] ([[User talk:Kaaveh Ahangar|talk]]) 00:09, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

==Erich Feigl==

Maybe you can help me with this. I come back here after a while only to find out that the article I had put together about Erich Feigl has vanaished. Did I miss something?--[[User:Hudavendigar|Murat]] ([[User talk:Hudavendigar|talk]]) 01:01, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

I really do not get it. There was no courtesy mssg or any warning. This is rather outrageous. An award winning academician, 60 movies, 12 books, in many other language wiki, and gets booted out because of politics. It is a good thing there are guardians here! Do I have a resourse?--[[User:Hudavendigar|Murat]] ([[User talk:Hudavendigar|talk]]) 01:58, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

I meant recourse. I could not find the section on Erich Feigl in that link. Can you point me in the right direction, and is there one responsible editor who would be able help me? I would like to direct my appeal to the party responsible with this. Thanks.--[[User:Hudavendigar|Murat]] ([[User talk:Hudavendigar|talk]]) 04:06, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

== Fatih Terim ==

damn! Fatih Terim is not Kurdish, in the other hand, he is one of the well known members of Turkish ultra-nationalists society.so your edit is little bit funny, and the source is empty.--[[User:Huck Diesel|Huck Diesel]] ([[User talk:Huck Diesel|talk]]) 17:24, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

== Ding-dong ==

A report has been filed at [[WP:AE#User:Parishan|WP:AE]] related to RFAR:AA2. Early last month, you imposed sanctions for edits at the same article by other editors, so I would like to hear your thoughts. [[User:GRBerry|GRBerry]] 00:40, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[Trabzon]] ==

Hi! Could you please look at that article? An anon IP repeatedly inserts Laz name of the city, refuses to discuss the issue and began attacking me personally today. Thanks in advance. [[User:Alaexis|Alæxis]]<sub>[[User_talk:Alaexis|¿question?]]</sub> 15:03, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
: Thanks, I will. [[User:Alaexis|Alæxis]]<sub>[[User_talk:Alaexis|¿question?]]</sub> 04:44, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

==Orphaned non-free media (Image:Avrupali_poster.jpg)==
[[Image:Ambox warning blue.svg|25px]] Thanks for uploading '''[[:Image:Avrupali_poster.jpg]]'''. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a [[WP:FU|claim of fair use]]. However, it is currently [[Wikipedia:Orphan|orphaned]], meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. [[WP:BOLD|You may add it back]] if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see [[Wikipedia:Non-free content#Policy|our policy for non-free media]]).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "[[Special:Contributions/{{PAGENAME}}|my contributions]]" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any '''articles''' will be deleted after seven days, as described on [[wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion#Images.2FMedia|criteria for speedy deletion]]. Thank you.<!-- Template:Orphaned --> [[User:Melesse|Melesse]] ([[User talk:Melesse|talk]]) 01:33, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

== Nyang’oma Kogelo, Alego, etc. ==

Hi. Alego Constituency and Alego Usonga Constituency are the same thing, but I believe [[Alego Constituency]] is the official name. I'm currenly making Wikipedia articles on Kenyan constituencies, and Alego Constituency will be written sometime in the near future.

Some sources say Nyang’oma Kogelo is located within Bondo district, but majority seem to "favour" Siaya District. Since the ECK website (www.eck.or.ke) is currently down, the [http://www.eck.or.ke/downloads/pollingcentres.pdf pollingcentres.pdf] file is not accessible at the moment, but it states that Nyang'ma Kogelo primary school is located within Siaya District.

[http://www.publicworks.go.ke/downloads/Maps/Siaya.pdf This map of Siaya District] recognises a villlage called Nyang'oma that is located just outside Bondo District. I'm not sure whether this Nyang'oma refers to Nyang’oma Kogelo. However, its possible location near the border of these two districts may contribute to s the confusion on which district the village belongs to. And in Kenya, administrative boundaries are seldom crystal clear anyway.

When it comes to the [http://www.information.go.ke/indexc.php?c2=129&c3=201 external link] you gave, it has content copied from wikipedia's [[Bondo District]] article... [[User:Julius Sahara|Julius Sahara]] ([[User talk:Julius Sahara|talk]]) 11:02, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

:Apparently Kosele is now the capital of Rachuonyo District[http://www.provincialadministration.go.ke/detail.php?op=8006]. It should be noted that most articles on Kenyan districts are somewhat outdated, since scores of more were created in 2007. [[User:Julius Sahara|Julius Sahara]] ([[User talk:Julius Sahara|talk]]) 16:10, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

=='''QUESTION'''==
'''QUESTION''' Does English language WIKIPEDIA ever ban users who are generally uncivil and have an extremely poor grasp of the English language. Many disagreements arise from what English words really mean. [[User:Bobanni|Bobanni]] ([[User talk:Bobanni|talk]]) 19:57, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

==On [[User:MiS-Saath]]==
Dear Khoikhoi, yesterday I had some confrontation with the above-mentioned person, the results of which you can peruse here: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:MiS-Saath#On_the_Khuzestan_Province]. Firstly, I fail to understand the motivation of this individual; while she writes very eloquently, her logic rambles from all sides (as her first response here [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:MiS-Saath#On_the_Khuzestan_Province] clearly shows, whereas her diction is very rich, her logic is that of a pre-school child). I am not a young person, and my life experience has taught me that in all such paradoxical instances the problem arises from lack of candour on the part of the person who causes the confusion (as Shakespeare says in Hamlet, ''Though this be madness, yet there is method in't.''). I have been very frank with her and told her in no uncertain terms that I have no trust in her motivations. If she were so concerned about Arabs, she could look close at home and undertake something for the Wikipedia entries regarding Palestinians, who are also Arabs (she is a resident of Israel). Her concern about the rights of the Arab population of Iran seems affected to me, given the fact, firstly, that I am not aware of any Wikipedia edits by her on subject matters regarding Palestinians and their human-rights conditions in the occupied territories, and, secondly, from my discussions with her I am absolutely certain that she is ''tabula rasa'' as regards history of Iran (she has been editing the entry on Khuzestan Province, in disregard to my repeated protestations [please consult the pertinent edit logs of the latter entry], on the basis of a single report by Amnesty International - as you can verify, I have even suggested to her to consider to open a section in the entry "[[Iran]]" concerning human-rights issues in Iran). How such person from 2.5 million articles on Wikipedia has suddenly got attracted to the Arab population of Khuzestan (with no pre-history of such interest on her part to my best knowledge), is just beyond me. For completeness, I consider all human beings as my brothers and sisters, whether Iranians, Israelis, Arabs, etc. With kind regards, [[User:BehnamFarid|--BF 08:39, 4 August 2008 (UTC)]]

:Hi, sorry for my late reply. Regarding your first question, regardless of what we suspect or believe, it is always important to [[WP:AFG|assume good faith]]. The fact that (s)he does not edit a certain range of topics is not relevant. Users at Wikipedia are permitted to edit whatever topic they want, as long as they do not edit [[Wikipedia:Disruptive editing|disruptively]]. The main issue is that we as Wikipedians should not really be discussing other users in this manner. Instead, we should be discussing other user's ''edits'' and we are permitted to discuss them in any way we like (as long as we are civil about it). You may have heard this before, but the saying is "Comment on content, not on the contributor." If someone adds information to an article that you dispute, it is important that you discuss the information added, its sources, etc. - but not the editor who added the information. <tt class="plainlinks">[[User:Khoikhoi|Khoi]][[User talk:Khoikhoi|khoi]]</tt> 03:46, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

:: Dear Khoikhoi, thank you for your kind response. You may wish to consider this forum shopping: [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Arab_world&diff=229706113&oldid=228346744]. With kind regards, [[User:BehnamFarid|--BF 04:24, 6 August 2008 (UTC)]].

==An input needed again==

Hi, recently you blocked [[user:Alden Jones|this]] user for edit warring [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&type=block&page=User:Alden_Jones], [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AAlden_Jones&diff=229312742&oldid=229245556] (48h) and suggested to rethink his editing practice, however after 48h. block expired he starting reverting again the same article [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Truce_of_Vilna&diff=229792706&oldid=229431677], It is clear that he did not intend to limit his revert campaigns. Could you please investigate this case additionally, and advise for additional remedies. Thanks, [[User:M.K|M.K.]] ([[User talk:M.K|talk]]) 16:17, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
:Thanks for the reply. Will see how events will unfold in upcoming future. Cheers, [[User:M.K|M.K.]] ([[User talk:M.K|talk]]) 14:42, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

==Questionable block==
Khoikhoi, you'll see I responded to your block of G-Dett on her talk page. Thanks, [[User:Mackan79|Mackan79]] ([[User talk:Mackan79|talk]]) 20:19, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
:Please see that I have raised the issue on AN/I [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Khoikhoi_block_of_G-Dett here]. [[User:Mackan79|Mackan79]] ([[User talk:Mackan79|talk]]) 21:28, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

== Russo-Turkish War (1877–1878) ==

Would you care to give your opinion to the removal of the Kinross quote here[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Turkish_War_%281877%E2%80%931878%29]? When it directly follows the quote by Nostradamus1, then it should be allowable. If chronology is a problem then the entire Kinross quote should be removed. [[User:Kansas Bear|Kansas Bear]] ([[User talk:Kansas Bear|talk]]) 02:23, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Kansas Bear, is insisting on the addition of a sentence that breaks the chronology of events. The events of the sentence he added are in the following paragraph. Merely changing the style to "According to ..." is not helping. The article uses these sources everywhere why are we switching styles here. There is no controversy as to these events. Kansas bear seems to dislike to have two sentences side by side describing the atrocities that triggered the entire war. Please, try to explain to this user the concept of time. I tried but he is not there. We should not break the chronology of events like this. Shaw and Shaw's sentence is directly tied to the previous one.--[[User:Nostradamus1|Nostradamus1]] ([[User talk:Nostradamus1|talk]]) 03:04, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Your changes improved the article. Thank you. (I also responded to your questions in ''bashi bozouks'' section of the article's discussion page.)--[[User:Nostradamus1|Nostradamus1]] ([[User talk:Nostradamus1|talk]]) 05:53, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

:I just noticed the following addition at the top of the April Uprising section. [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Russo-Turkish_War_%281877%E2%80%931878%29&diff=230065745&oldid=229915263]. It seems like Kansas Bear thinks that he can simply place a sentence anywhere in an article as long as it is referenced without consideration to the overall context. It is as if the section is starting on a suspense. This user claims to be a historian and I can't believe that.--[[User:Nostradamus1|Nostradamus1]] ([[User talk:Nostradamus1|talk]]) 02:00, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

==Economy of Romania==

Well, Khoikhoi, I've run some searches and it appears quite conclusive that the IP was introducing false numbers into the article. By the way, I've been [[Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#Ignorance_of_Wikipedia_rules.2C_slanderous_and_diffamatory_statements|hauled before AN again]] on Moldopodo's sockpuppetry accusations - this is getting to be rather tiring. [[User:Biruitorul|Biruitorul]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Biruitorul|Talk]]</sup></small> 04:44, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

== I am, but having troubles ==

I'm trying to get on via chatzilla. Apologies! fnord :-p [[User:Xavexgoem|Xavexgoem]] ([[User talk:Xavexgoem|talk]]) 00:50, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

== Request for your comment ==

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Barack_Obama#Any_nominations_for_this_article_and_talkpage.27s_podium.2Fchair.3F ''Here!'' <small>''':^)'''</small>]

I'm asking for an input from your expertise regarding the construction of a proposal about a decision making procedure. (Hope how I've phrased this isn't hopelessly cryptic. Anyway, what it is we're contemplating may break new ground, in a way.)[[User:Justmeherenow|<span style="font-family: Mistral ; font-size: 10p"> &nbsp;<math>\sim</math>&nbsp;J''ust''me''here''now</span>]] [[User talk:Justmeherenow|<small>'''''(&nbsp;&nbsp;)'''''</small>]] 09:15, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

:Thanks for your prompt reply; however, what I'd meant, actually, if maybe for ya to give input about ''how we should form the proposal''(?)

Anyway, I hope to get around to looking at this issue you've asked me, sometime, too. <small>:^)</small>[[User:Justmeherenow|<span style="font-family: Mistral ; font-size: 10p"> &nbsp;<math>\sim</math>&nbsp;J''ust''me''here''now</span>]] [[User talk:Justmeherenow|<small>'''''(&nbsp;&nbsp;)'''''</small>]] 09:38, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

==Çamlıhemşin==
Hello Khoikhoi,<br />Thanks for your “welcome” on my talk page on 1 August<br />
I understand the Wikipedia policy related to “truth” and “reliable sources”<br />
I wonder whether there is a policy to prohibit submitting info with a reference where info is factually wrong '''AND''' the given reference is not supporting the give info.<br />
This seems to be the case , at least partially, in the Article Çamlıhemşin (the language Hemşince)<br />
I will intervene again in the said article but this time put argumentation in the discussion page.<br />
I hope you will have time to see it<br />
Greetings<br />
[[User:Cihsai|Cihsai]] ([[User talk:Cihsai|talk]]) 10:33, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

== thanks for the welcome message ==

good luck to you.
[[User:Monkey dog2088|Monkey dog2088]] ([[User talk:Monkey dog2088|talk]]) 23:44, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

==Regarding your protection of the Hemshin peoples entry ==

Khoikkoi,
I have placed a detailed clarification of the development of the Hemshin peoples article on the talk page of the entry. In my opinion you have protected a version which was implemented by means of '''unjustified wholesale reverts (taking the entry back to its version almost a year ago, with no dicsussions or justifications)''', rather than the version which was actually developed through a completely Wikipedia edit policies complient process (as I detailed in my response on the talk page). These wholesale reverts are implemented by users who had no contributions whatsoever in the entry or the discussion. Such a protection thus punishes edit policies encouraged by wikipedia while rewarding those actually discouraged by it. I hope my detailed response there clarifies the situation and I kindly request that you remove the protection or, if you believe protection is necessary, keep the version dated 9 August 2008 (15.52), which I think is the legitimate one, as the protected version.[[User:Omer182|Omer182]] ([[User talk:Omer182|talk]]) 18:40, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

:Hi Khoikkoi,

:Thank you for your response. I understand your point that the version protected is not your choice, and that the way out is a consensus - possibly through mediation. I also know that page protects usually end up with one side complaining.

:However, I still need to bring the following to your attention.

:The practice or rule to protect the “current” version obviously has its merits ….as well as procedures to force edit warring parties to discussion and consensus, or submit to decision of others (arbitration).Implementing those rules needs possibly considering also other rules and policies of wikipedia and a judgement by the administrator may be required.

:I call upon you to consider such judgement on this occasion for the following reasons:

:1)You have not protected as editors were arguing and edit warring on content but as a group of users were taking turns, for a duration of a week, simply implementing wholesale reverts without argument.

:2)The protection has resulted in interruption of a discussion which was taking place between myself and another user. That discussion was, as it should be, focused on a part of the gradually developed version, not on the version that you have protected.

:3) The protected version is the version of a year ago: the concept of protecting the current version of an ongoing argument is jeopardised here.
:4) This version of a year ago is inserted by users who '''have neither presented one single argument in favour of that version nor any objection against the properly developed real "current version"'''. Other wikipedia rules are jeopardised here.

:5) Those users are several in number but "one" in attitude in concerted action. Furthermore, 3 such reverts just before the protection have been implemented by users who appear for the first time in the context of this entry and just in the action of those reverts. One of them is the user who requested the protection. I guess this issue needs to be looked into as well...


:If those issues are not considered and the protection rules are applied merely formalistically, they just serve the purpose of the users who possibly delibaretely violate wikipedia policies. A protection which amounts to a practical endorsement of such behaviour cannot be in line with wikipedia policies and definitely is not your purpose. This would only encourage the unapprovable approach of '''"avoid discussion/ wholesale revert blindly/force others to revert back/request protection and get it on the version you like"'''.

:Instead such users should be led to contibute in accordance with wikipedia rules.. Maybe you in your capacity as the administrator who got involved in the article have the means to secure that. Let me repeat…they have not responded to my frequent calls to participate in discussion.

:I kindly ask for your opinion regarding the matter at hand.[[User:Omer182|Omer182]] ([[User talk:Omer182|talk]]) 18:45, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

:: Hi Khoikhoi, thank you for your response to my above appeal. This is to inform you that I have filed a request for mediation ([[Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Hemshin peoples|here]]) in line with your suggestions.[[User:Omer182|Omer182]] ([[User talk:Omer182|talk]]) 15:57, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

==Valy Hedjasi==

hello and good evening mate, how are you? Hope you doing fine and have a nice time. Plz, do me a favor brother. You know the article [[Valy Hedjasi]]? Can you please delete the old version and add this new version translated from the German wikip.?

''Valy (Persian ولی), with full name Valy Hedjasi (* 29. May 1986 in Mashhad, Iran) is a Persian singer from Iran.

Valy grew up in Heidelberg, Germany. His family, who are also well-known artists are original from Herat and belong to the ethnic Persians (Tajiks, also called Farsiwans)<ref>http://www.radiojavan.com/friends/groups/154</ref> of Afghanistan. When he was seven years old he often played traditional intruments. Later he became teached in various traditions of Persian and Indo-Persian (indian) music-styles. As his teachers count the young died Persian (Tajik) artists Nasrat Parsa (also from Afghanistan) who teached him well in the classical indo-persian music and Bassam Ayyoub. At present, Valy lives in Hamburg.

Still, before the publication of his first album he achieved by the two singles Bia Tu and Dilamo Shekundi a very high publicity in the three Persian-Speaking countries Iran, Afghanistan and Tajikistan. Since the publication of his first album After Love 2007 he is one of the most successful Persian musicians of Afghanistan. Besides the traditional khorassani-style (the Persian-Tajik music traditions) his album also covers traditional iranian music trends for what he was criticized by Pashtun medias (Lmar, ArianaTv and AfghanmellatTV) while he was praised highly by other medias or Persian TV programmes at the mentioned transmitters (ArianaTV). The Album was produced by Kostas Karagiozidis who also produced some albums for the iranian singer Afshin. The Album was published by Avang, the largest iranian record lable.

Shortly after publication of his first album Valy went to his first tour (Bia Tu Tour). It covered five concerts in Canada and the USA. In 2008, a DVD under the name Valy life in America should appearing. Due to the great success he began his second tour World Tour 2008 which extend on four continents and withit the most extensive tour of a Persian artist from Afghanistan. For his success Valy was chosen with the Noor TV Awardss 2008 as a Best artiste of The Year. Valy appeared on the title page of the Persian Sitara magazines in May 2008

Valy is accused by the Persian-Tajik artist Seeta Qasemie (also beeing from Afghanistan) to cover her cooperation up at songs of his album. She claims to be the composer of the song Delbareh Mehraban and that the female voice is not from Persian-Tajik singer Mariam Morid but from her[1].

At an appearance in California in the context of the Persian Nawroz Celebration 2008 Valy announced the foundation the Valy Foundation. It is said The Valy Foundation collected over $2,000,000 in the Spring of 2008.

Like other Persian artists from Iran and central Asia, also Valy´s cooperation with Persian singers and artists from the Persian neighbouring states like Iran and Tajikistan, specially with iranian artists, contributes a contribution to the unfolding of the Persian language and culture and makes the cultural, historical and ethnic relationship between the Persian people of Afghanistan, Iran and Tajikistan. He represents a cultural link of these three Persian countries, specially for teenagers.

Discography

* After Love, octobre 2007 (Persian)

Singles (all songs are in Persian)

* Bia Tu
* Delbareh Mehraban
* Dilamo Shekundi
* Dokhtar e Qataghani (Dokhtar e Kabuli/Herati/Masari...) (original: Ba in Sâz e Qataghan)
* Doost Dokhtar
* Hame Karat Doroughaki
* Khab
* Khanoumi
* Zim Zim
''

Plz, check also the grammatic. Thank you very much and have a good time. With best regards.--[[Special:Contributions/84.59.106.190|84.59.106.190]] ([[User talk:84.59.106.190|talk]]) 13:32, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

:Hi, please see my comment at [[Talk:Valy]]. If we're going to say that he's Persian, we're going to need [[WP:RS|reliable sources]] stating this. Remember that [[Valy]] is a [[WP:BLP|biography of a living person]], so we need to be extra careful when we're dealing with ethnicity and/or nationality. So, do you have any reliable sources showing his ethnicity? The sentence "His family, who are also well-known artists are original from Herat and belong to the ethnic Persians (Tajiks, also called Farsiwans) of Afghanistan" for example is completely unsourced. Thanks. <tt class="plainlinks">[[User:Khoikhoi|Khoi]][[User talk:Khoikhoi|khoi]]</tt> 17:02, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

This sentence was taken from the site ''RadioJavanan'' (Youth Radio), an online informational portal about famous people, their background and other stuff. If you read the article above I had posted you will recognize the first source for his background. In fact, RJ and BBC and Sitara Magazine are the sources for his background information so we do not need really care about his native language which is Persian. Beside that these version is full of informations and sources and much better than the older ones.

With best Regards--[[Special:Contributions/88.68.194.26|88.68.194.26]] ([[User talk:88.68.194.26|talk]]) 18:02, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

:Fan groups are not really reliable sources. Can you please provide the links to the RJ, BBC, and Sitara references? Keep in mind that the RadioJavanan website cites his official website, where he says, "Many people ask me whether I am Iranian or Afghan and why I sing in different languages. It’s difficult for me to answer such questions, because for me it plays no role where I come from." <tt class="plainlinks">[[User:Khoikhoi|Khoi]][[User talk:Khoikhoi|khoi]]</tt> 18:14, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

On his homepage he does not say that also Javanan hadn´t written taht. This sentence was modified by some others who are unrelated with Valy (http://www.arianaspace.com/view_profile.php?member_id=177). This is wrong and made by those who hate Iran and it´s population or their culture or faith. He himself is from Iran, Mashhad where he was born and even a citizen of Iran. His mother is half Iran-Persian while his father is a Tajik (''eastern Persian'') from Afghanistan, Herat (region between Iran and Afgh). His native language is Persian (what should be the other language???). His songs are all in Persians and he is self a proud Tajik (eastern Iranians call themself sometimes as Tajiks). In Herat they are also called as ''Farsiwans'' (Persians). The one, Saeid Agha, who made the site for Valy in Javanan is self a worker of Avangmusic lable, the firma where Valy works for. Javanan Radio self belong to Iranian lables and avang is one of it´s supporter.

With best regards bro--[[Special:Contributions/88.69.52.216|88.69.52.216]] ([[User talk:88.69.52.216|talk]]) 18:27, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

:Click [http://www.valy-music.com/main.html here], then click on "The Artist" (the link is at the top of the website). You can then see his entire biography, including the sentence that I cited. I know his native language is Persian, you can see at [[Talk:Valy]] that I suggested that we say something like "Persian-speaking" or something similar. BTW, you should consider [[Wikipedia:Why create an account?|creating an account]] sometime. <tt class="plainlinks">[[User:Khoikhoi|Khoi]][[User talk:Khoikhoi|khoi]]</tt> 18:33, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Ahh, I understand what you mean. The sentence grips his identity if he see himself as Iranian or an Afghan (in that way that the term Afghan, also a sononym for Pashtuns, describe his father´s country, where Tajiks are called by Iranians falsefully as Afghans, since the country´s name is Afghanistan). I can tell you for sure and you can really believe me if i say he is 100% Persian of Tajik (Tajik=Iranian=Persian) descand. If you don´t believe me we can also ask and bring Valy himself here on Wikipedia since a friend of mine from Hamburg is related with him from motherside. We can also use sources like BBC and the Persian sitara magazine. :-)
Actually, that Persian is his native language and he is from Herat and presents his native culture it should be proof enough to write him as Tajik, because an Uzbek, or Hazara or a Pashtun or a Turk he can´t be, don´t you think so?

gl--[[Special:Contributions/88.69.52.216|88.69.52.216]] ([[User talk:88.69.52.216|talk]]) 18:55, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

:You know Valy? If it's not too much trouble, perhaps you could get him to email me (it's my username at gmail dot com). If you look at the [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Valy&limit=500&action=history history] of the article, you will notice that many different users have been endlessly reverting his nationality to either "Iranian" or "Afghan". I am curious what Valy himself wants the article to say instead of his fans. There was a similar situation when [[Sami Yusuf]] contacted Wikipedia regarding his biography. The only problem with saying "Persian" or "Tajik" is that [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style (biographies)]] says:

:#Nationality &ndash;
:##In the normal case this will mean the country of which the person is a citizen or national, or was a citizen when the person became notable.
:##''[[Ethnic group|Ethnicity]]'' should generally not be emphasized in the opening unless it is relevant to the subject's notability.

:However, perhaps we can make an exception if we can hear from Valy himself. So please ask him to email me when he is not busy. As for "Afghan", I'm assuming he was referring to the most common meaning of the term, which is "someone from Afghanistan" instead of someone who is [[Pashtun people|Pashtun]]. <tt class="plainlinks">[[User:Khoikhoi|Khoi]][[User talk:Khoikhoi|khoi]]</tt> 19:14, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

I will do my best and ask my friend to send him an email with your datas so he can contact you but I do not know when he will have time since he is working for another single, I guess. Concerned to Sami Yusuf, he is an Azeri Tat from Iran, Tabriz. With best regards bro

Ps: Are you an anatolian Turk?--[[Special:Contributions/88.69.52.216|88.69.52.216]] ([[User talk:88.69.52.216|talk]]) 19:19, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

:Sounds great, thanks. No, I'm not Turkish, Iranian, or Afghan. Why do you ask? :-) <tt class="plainlinks">[[User:Khoikhoi|Khoi]][[User talk:Khoikhoi|khoi]]</tt> 19:21, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Because your account´s name sounds related to me :D--[[Special:Contributions/88.69.52.216|88.69.52.216]] ([[User talk:88.69.52.216|talk]]) 19:22, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

:Ah, see [[Khoikhoi]]. It's actually a South African ethnic group. However, I'm not South Africa either. <tt class="plainlinks">[[User:Khoikhoi|Khoi]][[User talk:Khoikhoi|khoi]]</tt> 19:23, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

::[[User:Khoikhoi]] this guy using annon IPs starting with '''8''' from Germany you're replying to is the banned vandal [[User:Tajik|Tajik]]. Proof --->[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Requests_for_checkuser/Case/Tajik&diff=prev&oldid=154563344] If you compare the style of writings then you notice all the IPs with 8 from Germany is him. Further proof is [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Khaled_Hosseini&action=history here], you see he edits with 88 and 84 annon IPs.
::See his latest edits, where he curses people left and right including administrators and he gets away with it. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/84.59.213.239] He is a long time vandal who vandalizes every pages he comes to but you administrators do nothing to him. He is Tajik, Iranian, Persian nationalist and racist to others. He asked to know what your ethnic background is so he can start calling you names later. He is currently attacking mostly [[Pashtun people]] articles. Can you please do something about this banned vandal Tajik? Now you know why he won't create a user name and is only using annon IPs. That's because it's working for him, he gets away with it. He has successfully changed peoples ethnic background, see how he changed [[Ahmad Zahir]]'s ethnic from Pashtun to Tajik. The fact is that Ahmad Zahir is ethnic Pashtun and he has no Tajik parents. See this New York Times article ''"An '''ethnic Pashtun''' who sang mostly in Dari, he won fans in all ethnic groups." [http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9804E2DB1331F933A15750C0A9659C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all]'' Ahmad Zahir's sister ([[Zahira Zahir]]) owns a beauty shop in Washington DC and you can call her shop to learn her and her brother's ethnic background if the NY article is not enough proof. Now you see that the banned Tajik is only here on Wikipedia to stir shit.<small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/119.30.76.224|119.30.76.224]] ([[User talk:119.30.76.224|talk]]) 06:46, 23 August 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

Yes of course, ''Nisarkand''. The world is stupid as you are so the entire world follow your dirty views. The ''NY-Time'' article was not based on the Zahir family nor it had really something to do with it. Ok, let call it a ''source'', but on the otherside there are million of sources (and some are already provided) that you and your Pashtun ultra-nationalists are wrong. Now live the Internet shop and go back under the tent your father once came out, little uneducated nomad. Awghan e Khar. Awghul.

Btw, I told you 1000 times I´m not User Tajik (who is banned) but I am also from Germany that is maybe the reason why his IP begins with 84.XXX.XXX.XXX with 245 miles different, see the IP-Changes from 84.xxx. to 88... which get only sometimes. <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/84.59.193.151|84.59.193.151]] ([[User talk:84.59.193.151|talk]]) 15:57, 24 August 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

Khoikhoi,
I already contacted my friend, Valy´s cousin to write to you back. I gave him also your e-mail but I don´t know if he wrote to you back. However, I do not write to you because of this but because the article is still wrong. Valy is of Persian ethnic, his parents are full-blood Persians, they have even Iranian citizen. There is no need nor any reason to call them as ''Afghans''. He was not born in Afghanistan but in Iran. Remember what you have written.

*:#Nationality &ndash;
:##In the normal case this will mean the country of which the person is a citizen or national, or was a citizen when the person became notable.

That his parents or at least his father is from Afghanistan does not change his ethnicity. The information that he is from Afghanistan is given but he is not an Awghan. Please use the information that is already posted in the disk-site of the article [[Valy Hedjasi]]. If Valy contacts you just ask him about his ethnicity! With best regards.

Valy is an Iranian-born Persian singer.

Ps:Please, do yourself a favor and ignore this guy above. He is an idiot. As a self-proclaimed Taliban and Al-Qaida supporter he is a dog of Pakistan and Arabia, cultureless and backward, same as his nomadic fellows. He was many times banned, even for the last three four weeks by the admins because he is well-known for his vandalizings and spreading of false-nationalistic informations all around Wikipedia.--[[Special:Contributions/84.59.193.151|84.59.193.151]] ([[User talk:84.59.193.151|talk]]) 15:45, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

:You should first learn how to control your emotions when writing to others. Is this what your Persian culture is about? About me, I'm a white American male and I'm not a Pakistani or an Arab.
:You need to learn facts that Iran is not like Germany or other western nations who grant citizenship to anyone born in their country. Afghans who are born in Iran are NEVER Iranian citizens. They are still Afghans, born to Afghan nationals living in Iran as [[Afghan refugees]]. The same is with Afghans that are born in Pakistan. Iran and Pakistan does not grant citizenship to Afghans or any other nationals of other countries. When the baby is born in Iran or Pakistan, the baby's father MUST have Iranian citizenship document to make the baby Iranian or Pakistani citizen. Therefore, Valy cannot ever be an Iranian citizen and stop spreading falsehood. Spreading falsehood is one of a major sin according to the holy Koran, and those who do this must serve a very long time in hell. I don't see any reason why you are in heavily engaged in changing people's true ethnic background to a false one. You're not even an ethnic Tajik, you're really a member of the [[Qizilbash]] group. You are a Shia Persian speaker and Tajiks are Sunni, Tajiks of Afghanistan speak Dari and are anti-Iranian due to Iranians being Shia. You are only fooling yourself on Wikipedia, I see other Tajik editors always speak against you and your views.
:Remember I know you very well, the name you used while living in USA was "Ghulam Mustafa Naqshband"...you're about 6 ft. tall with black hair and a Hazara/Mongoloid face [http://www.flickr.com/photos/36647787@N00/2791086294/ like this].--[[Special:Contributions/119.30.66.155|119.30.66.155]] ([[User talk:119.30.66.155|talk]]) 13:39, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

== Turkey ==

Whoops! I meant to lower that to semi yesterday, thanks for the heads up. [[User:Hiberniantears|Hiberniantears]] ([[User talk:Hiberniantears|talk]]) 12:15, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

==Dagestan==
I can't think of an appropriate source off the top of my head, but a quick search produced [http://ippk.edu.mhost.ru/elibrary/elibrary/uro/uro_20/uro_20_21.htm this useful article], which states that Christians comprised 7.2% of the population in 1998 and that Islam is the dominant religion in the republic. I'll keep looking, but gotta run now.—[[User:Ezhiki|Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky)]]&nbsp;•&nbsp;([[User talk:Ezhiki|yo?]]); 21:23, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
:No, it's definitely not in the census data, as Russian Census questions did not include questions about religion. The census data are [http://www.archipelag.ru/authors/lunkin/?library=2043 occasionally used] to estimate the confessional composition based on ethnicities, but such an approach is, of course, only good for very rough estimates, and I am wondering if the 90.7% figure is one of such rough estimates. Anyway, I'll keep looking.—[[User:Ezhiki|Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky)]]&nbsp;•&nbsp;([[User talk:Ezhiki|yo?]]); 14:42, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

== Kolkhianboy (etc.) ==

Ah, I see. I've seen/read him vandalizing and nationalizing in the past. But in this one case – changing ''"South Caucasian or Kartvelian (Georgian) languages"'' back into ''"South Caucasian or Kartvelian languages"'', he's actually absolutely right — that language family is never called "Georgian language family". I think you will agree, even though it was done by an otherwise semi-malicious troll. I hope it's thus okay that I remove(d) the "Georgian" from that line.

If you were referring to the question if Mingrelians and Svans an be subsumed under the term "Georgians" (sorry, I'm a bit confused this evening), I'd still like to hear the pro and con arguments for that, as I would list them seperately. I'm not too familiar with the definition of "people" used as a criterion there. — [[User:N-true|N-true]] ([[User talk:N-true|talk]]) 22:41, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

:Alright, sounds fine. — [[User:N-true|N-true]] ([[User talk:N-true|talk]]) 22:47, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

== Albert Asriyan ==

There is a person who is identified by 38.117.188.10 who continues to vandalize and delete sections of my husband's Albert Asriyan page. He does this without discussion or explanation in the talk page. Every time he deletes sections, I revert to the previous and he deletes them again. He is a vandal and should not be allowed to edit that page. You have protected the page from editing, but in current version,it is missing sections that the person 38.117.188.10 deleted. Please review the as his editing is not by wiki standards and should be deleted. You can cross verify with the reference. Please inform us of a way to deal with this. [[User:Violin1951|Violin1951]] ([[User talk:Violin1951|talk]]) 02:17, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for your response and clarification. I will keep mind of the 3RR, however I am quite sure 38.117.188.10 does not care for wiki rules. You've asked if the information is verifiable, as in published in a newspaper. There is an article about Albert Asriyan and his death/leukemia from the New York Daily News which can be found [http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/brooklyn/2007/12/07/2007-12-07_family_mourns_death_of_albert_asriyan_.html?print=1&page=all HERE]. It is also linked to within the article itself. There has also been a press release issued by our attorney stating that there is a case against the doctors. That section that 38.117.188.10 keeps removing is directly from that press release. It is referenced in Albert Asriyan's website which is listed as a source.
Is it possible that 38.117.188.10 be blocked from editing the page as he/she contributes no constructive or rule-obligant editing. He is simply a vandal. Although I realize that he may just switch computers and continue. [[User:Violin1951|Violin1951]] ([[User talk:Violin1951|talk]]) 04:03, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

I do not have a link or online reference for the press release, however I do have an email from our attorney Mark M. Basichas stating that the press release has been issued.
Perhaps it isn't often that ongoing lawsuits are mentioned on wikipedia, but in this case it is very relavent as Albert Asriyan died very suddently and many of his fans are interested in the case of his death. There have been other ongoing lawsuits mentioned on wikipedia, that i have personally read. If it is public information that is available, such as the case of the press release, it is relavent and should be allowed to be published in this article. And I do beleive it is notable, as he is very popular within the Russian-Armenian-American community. The case against SVETLANA PINKUSOVICH, M.D., MIKHAIL GRINBERG, M.D., ROBIN BARADARIAN, MD. and NEW YORK CITY HEALTH AND HOSPITALS CORPORATION has not been settled, but the press release states the following "The complaint alleges that the death of ALBERT ASRIYAN a prominent musician and composer was due to negligent delay in diagnosis and treatment of a highly treatable form of acute leukemia".
As for 38.117.188.10 and other unregistered users, yes, please semi-protect the page. [[User:Violin1951|Violin1951]] ([[User talk:Violin1951|talk]]) 19:55, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

==South Ossetia==
i disagree with your choice
[[User:Raymond88824|Ray-Rays]] ([[User talk:Raymond88824|talk]]) 10:10, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

==Said Nursî==
I'm sorry for that mistake, and thanks for your warning. I'll try to find a reliable source. [[User:OnurtheAgha|OnurtheAgha]] ([[User talk:OnurtheAgha|talk]]) 07:53, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

== South Ossetia map ==

So, I prepared this map for Polish Wikipedia, but it could be useful for English Wikipedia too. [[User:Aotearoa|Aotearoa]] ([[User talk:Aotearoa|talk]]) 20:40, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm sorry. I have absolutely no idea what link I clicked on to have all this text altered and removed. The only edit I thought I made was revert someone's edit who removed "Shi'a" from the lead. Again, sorry. <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/77.42.133.145|77.42.133.145]] ([[User talk:77.42.133.145|talk]]) 21:29, 16 August 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

==Himarë article vandalism??==
Please can you revert and lock for sometime the editing of [[Himarë]] article as 24.185.86.249 and [[User:Taulant23|Taulant23]] are repeatedly altering and deleting the article from 12 August and on?I can not do this myself because they have altered the whole article without any reliable references and deleting everything regarding the history of the region including reliable references.[[User:Knonis|Knonis]]

:Hi, it looks like the edit war has cooled down recently. Do you still want the article protected? <tt class="plainlinks">[[User:Khoikhoi|Khoi]][[User talk:Khoikhoi|khoi]]</tt> 07:03, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
::::Yes please, protect for some time the article from unregistered users. 67.81.33.135 has started again altering key features of the article> I didn't revert him, so please revert and protect the article.Thanks. [[User:Knonis|Knonis]] <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/84.38.10.117|84.38.10.117]] ([[User talk:84.38.10.117|talk]]) 08:21, 25 August 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:::::::Previous comment was mine.I have new user account [[User:Knonis1|Knonis1]] ([[User talk:Knonis1|talk]]) 12:01, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

==Question==

Hello. Yes, I agree with you, the second version is much better. The name can also be displayed as Ludvig or even Ljudvig. [[User:Taamu|Taamu]] ([[User talk:Taamu|talk]]) 07:13, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
:You are welcome! [[User:Taamu|Taamu]] ([[User talk:Taamu|talk]]) 08:01, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

== You're welcome ==

No problem. I wish i had more time for contributions. [[User:Omulazimoglu|MULAZIMOGLU]] ([[User talk:Omulazimoglu|talk]]) 09:19, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

==Technical==
Hi, Khoikhoi! Judging by [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dagestan&diff=232370517&oldid=232352291 this edit] of yours, I take it that the line you edited in the infobox does not wrap automatically for you? I've been trying to reproduce this bug for almost a year now without success (in all of the browsers I am able to test the lines wrap automatically without expanding the actual infobox). Could you, please, let me know which browser/operating system you are using? I know for sure Firefox had this bug prior to version 2.0&mdash;is this what you are using? Any feedback you could provide would be appreciated. Thanks!—[[User:Ezhiki|Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky)]]&nbsp;•&nbsp;([[User talk:Ezhiki|yo?]]); 16:20, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
:Dang, MacOS is one environment I don't have access to. Thanks anyway; at least now I know where the problem is. Would you mind if I bug you occasionally to take a look at some test infobox in the future? I do intend to fix this bug.
:Regarding your other question (citing Dagestan's confessional composition percentages), I've so far been unsuccessful. There are plenty of references citing Islam as the dominant religion of the republic, and a few that put number of Christians in the 5-10% range, but while all this seems to be more or less in line with the percentages cited in the article, I am not finding any specific figures. Perhaps the sentence can be reworded (as per available refs) until the reference used for the cited numbers surfaces?—[[User:Ezhiki|Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky)]]&nbsp;•&nbsp;([[User talk:Ezhiki|yo?]]); 16:28, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
::Thanks! I'll re-word the sentence, unless you have any English-language sources you can use for this purpose (mine are all in Russian). Also, feel free to delete the screenshot above if you have no other use for it&mdash;I saved a copy locally in case I need to refer to it again. Cheers,—[[User:Ezhiki|Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky)]]&nbsp;•&nbsp;([[User talk:Ezhiki|yo?]]); 16:56, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
:::The names of districts/inhabited localities include the full name of the federal subject when the disambiguation is required. That was done primarily for consistency (short names such as "Komi" and "Karelia", for example, are ambiguous without the "Republic" specifier), and the whole disambiguation scheme of the Russian places currently relies on that convention (it is hard to keep track of stuff as is; would you also want to have to remember when to use "republic" and when not to?). My recommendation in case with Prigorodny District would be to take heart in the fact that [[Vesyoly|some other titles are even longer]] and leave it at its current title :)
:::As for the "Roksky Tunnel", it is a Russian transliteration, but since I don't know Ossetian, I cannot discard a possibility that it may ''also'' be Ossetian. On the listing order, I have no opinion. For places in Russia, we normally list Russian first, then the rest of the official languages, then other languages of some special importance. By that analogy, in case with the tunnel I would put Georgian first, then Ossetian, then Russian, but, of course, considering the recent events let's just say I'm glad I don't have to decide on the order of anything in this particular case :), but I trust Russian should be last in the list regardless of the order of Georgian/Ossetian. Best,—[[User:Ezhiki|Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky)]]&nbsp;•&nbsp;([[User talk:Ezhiki|yo?]]); 19:08, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

==Stalin==

The Jughashvilis were Osettians relocated into Georgia by the Tsarist government after a minor rebellion that JS's great grandfather was involved in. Relocated Ossetians are still Ossetians. <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Rsloch|Rsloch]] ([[User talk:Rsloch|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Rsloch|contribs]]) 08:38, 19 August 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

The text requested is as follows:

'Beso’s grandfather, Zaza, was an Ossetian from the village of Geri, north of Gori. Zaza, like Stalin, his great grandson, became a Georgian rebel: in 1804, he joined the uprising of Prince Elizbar Eristavi against Russia.
Afterwards, he was settled with other ‘baptized Ossetians’ in the village of Didi-Lilo, 9 miles from Tiflis, as a serf of Prince Badur Machabeli. Zaza’s son Vano tended the Prince’s vineyards and had two sons, Giorgi, who was murdered by bandits, and Beso, who got a job in Tiflis in the shoe factory of G. G. Adelkhanov but was headhunted by the Armenian Josef Baramov to make boots for the Russian garrison in Gori.'

You can find a copy of the first 20 pages of the Young Stalin here: http://www.orionbooks.co.uk/extras/SimonSebagMontefiore_youngstalin.pdf The section is on page 17 of that imprint.

[[User:Rsloch|Rsloch]] ([[User talk:Rsloch|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Rsloch|contribs]]) 15:01, 20 August 2008 (BST)

As the Caucasus is one of the most ethnically diverse regions in Europe I doubt many people living there are 100% anything.

Unless one is being really, really exact Beso was Ossetian.

[[User:Rsloch|Rsloch]] ([[User talk:Rsloch|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Rsloch|contribs]]) 11:03, 21 August 2008 (BST)

== Abkhaz People ==

I'll have a look at it day after tomorrow, first I need to write an exam tomorrow. :) [[User:sephia_karta|<font face="Palatino">sephia karta</font>]] 12:41, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

==Bagapsh==

I'm afraid that I have absolutely no idea. I wrote that article ''long'' before sources were even common on Wikipedia, let alone required - I have no idea if they're even still available. I have a suspicion I may have used a database I had access to back in high school that had some useful stuff, but I can't even recall its name.

I'd probably take out the paragraph about Ardzinba's relationship with Bagapsh on [[WP:BLP]] grounds, at least if no one can turn up the source I actually used. The whole section about his time as Prime Minister could really do with a solid rewrite/new batch of research.

The section about the 1998 war, however - we should be able to use the sources from the (actually sourced) article on that conflict, so I don't think that should be a problem. [[User:Rebecca|Rebecca]] ([[User talk:Rebecca|talk]]) 03:12, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

:Aha! The database that I'm pretty sure I used was eLibrary (http://www.elibrary.com/). It was often a bit random in what it did have, but it was useful for some of these things in that it had a lot of 90s-era magazine feature articles, as opposed to the more straight news content of databases like [[Factiva]] that I'm more inclined to use these days. I'm not sure where you could get access to it, though - my uni doesn't bother with it, and I've never heard of it anywhere apart from my old high school.

:Thanks for fixing up the sourcing on the 1998 war section. I agree with your changes on [[South Ossetia]] too; now that the 2006 alternative government appears to have become a government-in-exile, probably permanently, it doesn't work to have so much detail on it in the lead. (I find it interesting that Sanakoyev doesn't seem have said ''anything'' to the press throughout this entire conflict - is he even still alive?) [[User:Rebecca|Rebecca]] ([[User talk:Rebecca|talk]]) 04:11, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

:::Re: Amtsakhara - eep. It, like most the articles I wrote about Abkhaz figures really could do with a rewrite - while there's nothing in there that stands out as problematic, it was also written before Bagapsh took power, and thus needs quite a lot of work. One further source which I suspect I may have used, looking at the Amtshakhara text (and which is free and useful in terms of English content) is IWPR's Caucasus Reporting Service (www.iwpr.net) - that could be a decent place to start in terms of sourcing the thing. [[User:Rebecca|Rebecca]] ([[User talk:Rebecca|talk]]) 06:11, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

==Question (2)==
I'll try to find out the Ossetian name for Roki Tunnel. [[User:Taamu|Taamu]] ([[User talk:Taamu|talk]]) 07:39, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed! Roki Tunnel will be "Ручъы тъунел" in Ossetic. [[User:Taamu|Taamu]] ([[User talk:Taamu|talk]]) 10:42, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
I know for sure that Roksky pass will be "Ручъы æфцæг", than I guess "Ручъы тъунел" is correct. [[User:Taamu|Taamu]] ([[User talk:Taamu|talk]]) 06:10, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
:In my opinion terms Roksky pass and Roksky tunnel are not the same. The passage that you have provided: "Серги гуыргæ Чеселты ракодта, Дыууæдонастæу '''1916''' азы зæхкусæг бинонты ’хсæн. Цыппар азы йыл куы сæххæст, уæд райдыдта гуырдзыйы уæды геноцид æмæ Ручъы æфцæгыл йæ ныййарджытимæ ахызт Цæгат Ирыстонмæ") refers to the year of 1920 when there was no tunnel, because it was completed in 1985. Do you agree? [[User:Taamu|Taamu]] ([[User talk:Taamu|talk]]) 06:32, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

==Thanks==
Lotta work to do here...Wikipedia isn't going away anytime soon and I want to improve this site as long as it is here. And I use this site so much, even when when I'm not editing. It's something of a big thing, no site has come around to rplace it. [[User:Alex contributing from L.A.|Alex contributing from L.A.]] ([[User talk:Alex contributing from L.A.|talk]]) 01:54, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

==Question==
I'm confused by your statement that I am trying to sell something to Wikipedia users. I am simply trying to share literally thousands of encyclopedic-type photos of remote sites that are freely viewable without purchase with other Wikipedia users. Could you explain what the problem is because I don't understand why you have a problem with my free photos? Rex Geissler [[User:Rexgeissler|Rexgeissler]] ([[User talk:Rexgeissler|talk]]) 20:36, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

== Turkey/Ottoman Empire ==

Hi Khoikhoi. I've seen your moderation on Wikipedia and you seem like a good person to come to when there's a problem that needs resolving. OK, enough pandering. Now on the page [[Turkey at the 1908 Summer Olympics]] and [[1908 Summer Olympics]], the name "Turkey" appears where the "Ottoman Empire" should. Now apparently, the official reports from the Olympics used "Turkey", so I appreciate why this should be mentioned on these pages. However, my edits to the effect of "... the Ottoman Empire was incorrectly called Turkey" have all been reversed on the grounds that Wikipedia can't determine what is or isn't correct. As you can see in [[Turkey at the 1908 Summer Olympics]], other official teams at the 1908 Olympics were: "Australasia" and "Holland" -- but the article still speaks about correct countries ("New Zealand" and "the Netherlands"). Why can't Turkey be corrected too?? Best, [[User:Ordtoy|Ordtoy]] ([[User talk:Ordtoy|talk]]) 06:55, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

== Sándor Petőfi ==


Hi, I edited the article about Sándor Petőfi yesterday because there were mistakes in it. You changed it back to previous version. Why did u do it? Do you have any information about Sándor Petőfi? Do know the history of central Europe? Thank you for answers. <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Jasooon|Jasooon]] ([[User talk:Jasooon|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Jasooon|contribs]]) 16:25, 23 August 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->


:The sources according to which the father of Sándor Petőfi was a Serb are not relevant. They just believe the lie which started in the past. His father was a Slovak. There is a guy who was studying this particular problem for years. His name is József Kiss and wrote a book - Petőfi adattár. The ancestors of Petőfi came to what is now Slovakia some time in the 16th century. The only reason why there exist myths that his father was a Serb, is that the name Petrovics is Serbian. So his father can be a 1/64 Serb or maybe 1/32 Serb but not full Serb, not even half Serb... Also the family tree of Sándor Petőfi says that the ancestors of his mother as well as of his father were Slovaks down to the year 1685.<br /><br />Other things - since his father was a Slovak, he spoke Slovak as a native speaker. Of course that he also spoke Hungarian, because all the documents, offices, schools, courts used Hungarian language. Another thing - I don't understand why should the names of Slovak cities, towns in English articles be in Hungarian. They should be either in English or in Slovak. It is the same when you write about German cities in English article. You do not use their names in Hungarian, but either in English or in German... <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Jasooon|Jasooon]] ([[User talk:Jasooon|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Jasooon|contribs]]) 22:28, 23 August 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->


==Rwanda==

Hey. Can you help me keep an eye on the [[Rwanda]] article? I've allowed significant yet wholly unsourced demographic claims to sit for a week+ with various tags, but nothing happened (for e.g., one of these asserted that the Muslim population in the country has tripled since 2001, due to various unsourced reasons, which may or may not prove to be true). I could use a 2nd set of eyes to help me enforce these terms. Thx. Best, [[User:El_C|El_C]] 20:04, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

:The sources are in the main articles. I really don't want to bother writing it up, but am annoyed that El C deletes material he knows can be sourced merely because he doesn't like it. [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 01:32, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

::I'm annoyed, because it's your responsibility to source it, since you're restoring it. I have no problem with the material. Why would I? [[User:El_C|El_C]] 02:01, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

:::I made the mistake of treating this like a content dispute —but that's over now— partly because I thought, hey, he'll click on [[WP:BURDEN]] and figure out it's his responsibility, I'll just give him a week to get the sources up and running. Little did I know... [[User:El_C|El_C]] 02:30, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Khoikhoi, El C threatened to block me if I add the refs without rewriting the article, which I just did. Since you're the one who said "no one's asking [me] to rewrite the article", I'd appreciate it if you kept an eye on things.

BTW, El C only came up with his "unsourced" argument when I refused to buy his original rationalization for deleting info from the article: "please observe due weight — the length you accorded to that issue is just proprotionate (takes half the section) to other, similarly if not more improtant issues in that section", "it's excessive to devote over half the demographics section to a group that makes up 13 percent of the population". No mention of it being unreliable until I insisted that "undue weight" doesn't mean we have to turn the entire article into a stub just because some sections within it are stubs.

Also, he is not policing an edit war, as he falsely claims. He's the one who originally deleted the material as "undue weight". Since he's not going around gutting other articles for this reason, and there are plenty of other fact tags in the article, I can only assume that he takes issue with the content of the material itself, not undue weight or proper sourcing. [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 21:44, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

:If you take issue with any other unsourced content in the article, and someone else would continue to restore it, ignoring [[wp:burden]], I would act exactly the same. [[User:El_C|El_C]] 21:52, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

:Oh yeah, I forgot about that. I guess wikilawerly-wise, he has a point, but I just try to keep the peace across so many articles, hundreds and hundreds of them, it's hard to remember. But in fairness, I did withdraw for a week and told him to go ahead and just add the four or five citations. But come to think of it, does it make sense to devote half of that section to Muslim-related developments. Clearly, if the Muslims have grown three times in size, that deserves mention, but for the demographics we are talking about for the entire country throughout modern history, including the Genocide, and so on. So, does it, in fact, make sense to devote over half the section to just that one issue? [[User:El_C|El_C]] 22:00, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

::If you'd forgotten that you're the one who started blanking the section, and later saw it as a fresh dispute you were not involved in, then I apologize for my suspicions. I've certainly done that myself. But as for undue weight, it's ''absolute,'' not relative. By your argument, if an article has a section that's just a stub, then we would need to reduce ''all'' its sections to stubs. Hardly any articles would ever get developed with that approach. Two very short paragraphs about the conversion of a substantial portion of the population to Islam (Evangelism also needs to be mentioned) after the genocide is hardly undue weight for the subject, and if it's disproportionate to the rest of the section, then we need to ''develop'' the rest of the section, not gut it further. The reason I don't want to rewrite it is that it will take a lot of work, and research, in subjects I know next to nothing about. [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 22:23, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

:::Country articles need to retain a measure of stability. It becomes undue weight because a reader goes to the demographics sections and sees one paragraph that's a general summary and then two other paragraphs about how conversions to Islam grew three times in less than ten years (from 5 to 15 percent), which is significant, and yes, [[wp:RECENT|recent]], but so significant so as to overwhelm everything else? So it needs to be further summarized, ''linking'' instead to the broader discussion, until the demographics section has more than just a tiny paragraph about everything else. That more substantive discussion was overshadowed by you, on the one hand, insisting on restoring the content, which was unsourced (even after a week that I withdrew), because you didn't want to edit the article? Well, if you restore it, those are the breaks. And adding the sources in subpar way becaue you don't want to bother is not acceptable, either. Note that you violated 3RR (no, I did not: because I only reverted twice & Khoikhoi reverted twice —you reverted 4 times to out four), yet I did not report you. Which I'm beginning to regret. [[User:El_C|El_C]] 22:40, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

::::If you had summarized it and linked instead of just gutting it, I'd've had no problem with it. I'm well aware that the section needs major revision, but deleting information is not the answer.

::::Ah, I see I didn't do my homework. You made four edits in six hours with edit summaries that suggested they were reverts, but only three of them actually were reverts. But I reverted three times, not four, letting your last deletion stand. So we were both playing the 3RR game. [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 23:55, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

::::I see Khoikhoi is keeping out of this. Why don't we stop bothering him with our bickering, since you say you don't need me to rewrite the section? Any point in continuing here? [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 00:02, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

:::::I didn't revert four times. I made ''four edits''. Two continuous ones, and two non-continuous ones. So it is a physical impossibility. Whereas you, reverted four, or even five time, counting your blanking. [[User:El_C|El_C]] 00:07, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

::::::And ''thirteen reverts'' in the week? Are you going for a record? [[User:El_C|El_C]] 00:10, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

:::::::I will continue to respond to your misrepresentations, but I think we should take this elsewhere. (And whatever happened to your promise not to speak to me any more today?) Perhaps you're merely careless, but counting up to five is not difficult, nor is reading two lines of a comment you're responding to, and I'd appreciate it if you bothered to do this before making allegations.

:::::::You reverted the article at 12:43, 18:19, and 19:03. Let's see ... yes, that's three times, just as I said. I reverted at 13:08, 14:19, and 14:43, which is ... hmm, also three times. I don't quite see how 3 = 2 for you, but 3 = 4 for me. [[User:Kwamikagami|kwami]] ([[User talk:Kwamikagami|talk]]) 00:39, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

::::::::Contemptible; I truly hope I never have to encounter this abusive editor and his bizarre double standards. [[User:El_C|El_C]] 02:21, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

== Image ==

Hi, can you please help me with an image. I am a bit confused what will be the copyright tag for [[:Image:AntiSmokingNaziGermany.jpg]]. Will [[:Template:Non-free magazine cover]] be more appropriate? '''[[User:Otolemur crassicaudatus|<font color="002bb8">Otolemur crassicaudatus</font>]]''' ([[User talk:Otolemur crassicaudatus|talk]]) 20:18, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
:Also can you understand who will be the copyrightholder of [http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/313/7070/1450/F14 this] image? '''[[User:Otolemur crassicaudatus|<font color="002bb8">Otolemur crassicaudatus</font>]]''' ([[User talk:Otolemur crassicaudatus|talk]]) 20:21, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

==On [[Unruled Paper (film)]]==
Dear Khoikhoi, please note that I will not tolerate that [[User:AzureFury]], who in my opinion is an adventurer seeking conflict with me, to use my text to parade his ignorance; as the final messages of this user show (on the talk page of the entry at issue), this person is trying to take the entry as hostage with the aim of forcing his ill will through. If he adds a single word into my text, I will sue Wikipedia for exposing my work; as far as the above-mentioned entry is concerned, I will not grant that Wikipedia exposes my text if [[User:AzureFury]] inserts even a single word into my original text (he is naturally free to write the entire entry by his own). In order to avoid repeating myself, I refer you to the talk page of the above-mentioned entry as well as the messages that I have just placed here: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Stifle] (please see the bottom of the page) and here: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Alansohn#On_Unruled_Paper_.28film.29]. For completeness (I have already written this to [[User:Stifle]]), my Wikipedia article has been apparently good enough that on the basis of it last week the editor of a prestigious film magazine in Canada commissioned me to write an extensive article on ''Unruled Paper'' (he has asked me that my commissioned article be at least twice as extensive as my Wikepedia article). Kind regards, [[User:BehnamFarid|--BF 03:07, 25 August 2008 (UTC)]].

: Dear Khoikhoi, please note that [[User:AzureFury]] is taking the entry as a hostage. In using the word "sue" I am expressing my ''revulsion'' at seeing that a person is using legal loopholes on Wikipedia for forcing his will through by vandalising my text. The fact is that by his own admission, this person has not even seen the film; he does not know any of the artists, etc. (for instance, there being no review of the film, except that on the English Wikipedia, this person cannot even claim to have his knowledge from an external source). How can such a person suddenly set about and start changing the entry beyond recognition? Please note that if this person had even the slightest qualification, I certainly had not acted the way I have: my point is that now that this person has decided to attack me through vandalising the Wikipedia article, I want to have this blackmailing weapon removed from his hands. The only legal means at my disposal is to sue Wikipedia ''if Wikipedia decides to ignore the background to the problem and allow [[User:AzureFury]] to blackmail me in such a blatant manner'' --- mind you, I never undertook to change or remove the tags, thus acting fully in accordance with the principle that while a discussion goes on, one does not change the facts on the ground (please note that this person effected his changes, prior to the discussion being concluded). For me the possibility of suing remains on the table ''so long as [[User:AzureFury]] uses the entry at issue as a means of blackmailing me.'' Kind regards, [[User:BehnamFarid|--BF 03:45, 25 August 2008 (UTC)]].

::If you take a look at the talk page, you'll see that BF has refused to remove what he admits is POV language and original research. Several people have explained to him that these are violations of Wiki policies. Therefore I removed all statements that OBVIOUSLY violated these policies and put tags on some of the really questionable sentences. BF reverted my edit, telling me to see the film before I editted the article. There is no Wiki policy outlying policies for the removal of unsourced or POV statements. Edit warring is in appropriate, but I don't see that there is any question of who is in the right here. If you must protect the page, I ask you to rollback the page to my edit which is the only one without blatant original research and POV language. [[User:AzureFury|'''<span style="color:blue">Azure</span><span style="color:red">Fury</span>''']] ([[User talk:AzureFury|talk]] | [[Special:contributions/AzureFury|contribs]]) 04:18, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

:::The "ramming" thing was derived from using Osama Bin Laden as an example of a fundamentalist, to contrast the difference between "Fundamentalism" and asking someone to remove POV language and original research. This was not a personal attack, I think it was taken the wrong way by both him and you. I wasn't trying to connect the entire Middle-East to 9/11. I'm about to write up a response to your compromises on the article talk page. The preview, "they don't solve the problem." I agree that admins really shouldn't (but sometimes do) pick the version they think is more appropriate before blocking a page, but BF ''isn't even disputing the policy violations''. That's why I think it's appropriate to at stick with my version and why I think I'm not being biased or hypocritical in asking you to do so. [[User:AzureFury|'''<span style="color:blue">Azure</span><span style="color:red">Fury</span>''']] ([[User talk:AzureFury|talk]] | [[Special:contributions/AzureFury|contribs]]) 04:52, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

::::You said that you would get complaints from the other side. That's true. My counter argument is simple: I'm right. Come on, look at the guy's edits, look at his counter-arguments. I can recognize a questionable issue such as the on-going debate over [[Talk:Star Wars kid|whether or not to include the Star Wars Kid's real name in his article]]. I understand and respect the other side in that debate. This one, however, is not questionable. The dispute with BF is perhaps the most transparent, one-sided debate I've ever been involved in.

::::You offer mediation. Admittedly, I've never been involved in mediation before. As I understand it, mediation is simply a method of helping two disputing editors communicate? I don't think that is appropriate in this situation as I've expressed my willingness to co-operate whereas BF is '''denying me the right to use his writing on Wikipedia.''' I think a RFC on a user is order here, and not surprisingly. I took a look at this from his talk page: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Ethnic_and_cultural_conflicts_noticeboard#Arabistan.2C_Iranian_Arabs_and_Racism_in_the_Middle_East]. Admins called him a, "nationalist problem editor." [[User:AzureFury|'''<span style="color:blue">Azure</span><span style="color:red">Fury</span>''']] ([[User talk:AzureFury|talk]] | [[Special:contributions/AzureFury|contribs]]) 05:12, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

:: Dear Khoikhoi, first "peacock terms" does not apply here. I have repeatedly said that people like [[Khosrow Shakibai]] (deceased), [[Hadyeh Tehrani]], [[Jamshid Mashayekhi]], [[Jamileh Sheikhi]] (deceased), [[Soghra Obeisi]], etc., have for two generations defined what we call "good acting" ([[Hadyeh Tehrani]] is relatively young, so that the "two generations" does not apply to her); they are just the measures against which good acting is measured. Where I have said that the cast is "stellar", I can therefore not have unduly referred to the latter people as "stars". Even calling these people ''stars'' is in a certain sense a disservice to them; they are the very best not only in Iran, but everywhere. I suggested to [[User:AzureFury]] that classical music, or even our present-day music, being so much influenced by Bach and Beethoven, we cannot just consider these people as ordinary people and consequently cannot consider the positive qualities attributed to them as being "peacock terms". Interestingly, he wrote in response that I had made him to read the Wikipedia entries on Bach and Beethoven and found a great deal of "peacock terms" in them. Incidentally, this just shows to me this person knows absolutely nothing about even music (the fact that he has '''not''' re-written, better, assaulted, the entries on Bach and Beethoven, just proves to me that he must have a very low opinion of Iranians; Iranians must be somehow inferior, deserving their texts being edited by someone who demonstrably knows absolutely nothing about the subject matter of the text being edited).

:: I have been told by my musicologist friends that even to this day, the greatest musicologists cannot comprehend how Bach can have humanly written some of his musics; the [[Mass in B minor]] is one of them, that the greatest musicologists cannot imagine to have been written by a human being. The same goes for Beethoven. For instance, without him, and Bach, piano would be a very limited instrument. Given these facts, how can the positive things attributed to Bach and Beethoven be considered as "peacock terms". The same applies to Einstein, etc. Now, take [[Hadyeh Tehrani]] in the film ''Unruled Paper''. She is just awesome (always, but in particular in this film). I would not have used the word ''stellar'' were it not for the fact that all the main actors in this film have played at the highest level of professionalism. I therefore do not accept your point that one does not need to have seen the film or known the actors before editing the entry. '''Please note that film is a visual art'''; one cannot have any opinion on a film without having seen it. The editing by [[User:AzureFury]] of the present entry is on a par with the editing by an elementary-school child of the entry on "[[string theory]]".

:: There is no content dispute. The dispute simply arises from the fact that I told [[User:AzureFury]] that he is inconsistent; that his remarks are offensive and racist (conflating Usama Bin Laden with Iranians, ramming planes into buildings --- mind you, the film under discussion could have been a Chinese film, had I been an expert on Chinese films; the reason that I wrote the entry was not because of my nationality, but because of knowing the Iranian culture (including films) and literature and history relatively well, enabling me to act as a reliable guide to those consulting Wikipedia in regard to a piece of Persian culture). [[User:AzureFury]] has also acted impertinently by making derogatory remarks on my Comments, one of which was addressed ''not'' to him, but to [[User:DGG]]. I believe that the problem is just resolved when [[User:AzureFury]] leaves the matter to those who can have opinion on the subject matter. As it stands, he is just emphasising on a narrow point, without having the slightest ability to play any positive role in what may be a problematic wording of the text at hand. If he wants to make a positive contribution, he should at the very least watch the film for at least three times (the film has some "fractal" property and this can only be appreciated by watching the films from several different perspectives - by "[[fractal]]" I mean that the film shows several identical phenomena on different levels). As the discussions on the talk page show, [[User:AzureFury]] has been on the talk page in order to pick a fight with me (if you read his statements, you will realise that none of the things that he states have bearing on the subject matter of my "Urgent Proposal" - we call a person "reactionary" because that person always reacts to proposals, but never offers any proposal of his own; thus "reactionary" people are almost always also "fundamentalists" in the broad sense of the word; in my opinion, the role of [[User:AzureFury]] in the whole episode has been that of a reactionary fundamentalist, in the senses just defined). Kind regards, [[User:BehnamFarid|--BF 06:06, 25 August 2008 (UTC)]].

:::I don't know how effective a compromise will be as the only things I deleted were undisputable (and undisputed) violations of Wiki policy. I'm always willing to read a compromise. I just don't see this as a normal, honest, respectful dispute. I'm trying to adhere to Wiki policies, he is not. It's that simple. Any steps taken in his direction are away from Wikipedia. The way I'm imagining it, compromising in this situation would be analogous to compromising with an IP vandal who wants to say something like, "John McCain eats babies," (a recent edit I reverted) and someone who wants to delete it. But give it a shot...I guess. [[User:AzureFury|'''<span style="color:blue">Azure</span><span style="color:red">Fury</span>''']] ([[User talk:AzureFury|talk]] | [[Special:contributions/AzureFury|contribs]]) 06:34, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

:::: You may be willing to compromise, but on whose behalf? Who gave you the right to opine on things that demonstrably lie outside your area of competence? Why do you think that people must be waiting for your opinion on an Iranian art-form? What are your qualifications? Last week you said that the entries concerning Bach and Beethoven contained a large number of POV words; why haven't you been editing the entries on Bach and Beethoven? Are Iranians fair game? Do you think you can have just opinion of Iranian art-forms because they are Iranian? [[User:BehnamFarid|--BF 06:59, 25 August 2008 (UTC)]].

Dear Khoikhoi, as I have said for a number of times on the talk page of the film, I am not aware of any review of this film in any language known to me. For some reason the film seems never to have been reviewed, even in Persian. Please check on the Google. It seems that my article for Wikipedia is the first review, reason why last week the editor a film magazine, published in Canada, asked me to write a very detailed and extensive article on the film. He explicitly wrote to me that he liked ''all'' aspects of my Wikipedia article but wanted my article for them to be at least twice as extensive. I repeat, there is nothing out there concerning this particular film (to my very best knowledge); if you want external sources, you will have to wait until my review article for this very respectable film magazine is out. Had [[User:AzureFury]] not caused the present mayhem, I had written my review article in the course of this weekend; writing reviews for a film magazine being just a side activity of mine, I really do not know when I will have the time to complete my review. This [[User:AzureFury]] has proved to be by far the most destructive person I have ever encountered here on Wikipedia; what animates such people, is just a mystery to me. I sincerely believe that senior editors of Wikipedia have to act mercilessly against those people who clearly are not here to advance the cause f knowledge (believe me, any single word that I type here, is at the expence of my professional work outside Wikipedia and I do not gain a penny for my work on Wikipedia). With kind regards, [[User:BehnamFarid|--BF 07:31, 25 August 2008 (UTC)]].

==Nogai Horde==
Thank you for your help. I fixed the statement about sources, which I now see was misleading [[User:Benjamin Trovato|Benjamin Trovato]] ([[User talk:Benjamin Trovato|talk]]) 03:17, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

== Conflict of interest ==

Isn't it a conflict of interest for you to edit [[Eduard Kokoity|Eduard Khokhoity]]? Ha... Ha... Unfunny joke..... -- <b>[[User talk:Arbeit Sockenpuppe|Y&nbsp;not&nbsp;be&nbsp;working?]]</b> 13:49, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

==Thank you==
Dear Khoikhoi, thank you for the two references of which I had not aware. I have now read one of them (I do not know whether you read Persian) and have been confirmed in my belief that Iranian critics have a very unpleasant tendency, namely that rather than understanding a work of art before writing about it, they almost always write about their limited impressions of that work of art; this is so unprofessional that I have no word to express it. It is like reading Ferdowsi and constantly saying how Ferdowsi had to have written a particular verse. My favourite film critic is [[Philip French]], who for three decades has been the film critic of The Observer. His writings are always insightful and aim at shedding light on aspects that are likely to be missed by the casual viewers of the film that he writes about. Iranian critics almost always write like frustrated men and women (I have always thought, following Freud, that this must be a reflection of the sexual frustration of these critics). Recently, I read a Persian review of Masud Kimiai's feature film ''Hokm''. This review discussed everything except the film itself (the film has many technical problems, but even none of these were discussed in this review). For your information, the language of Kimiai's films is poetical, and those who are not aware of this very fundamental fact are most likely to misinterpret Kimiai's films. In contrast, Abbas Kiarostami has almost always poetry in the images that he creates; Kiarostami "talks" by means of images. When I have some free time, I shall incorporate the contents of the references that you have kindly provided in the Wikipedia text. With kind regards, [[User:BehnamFarid|--BF 16:47, 25 August 2008 (UTC)]].

Revision as of 17:54, 7 October 2008

File:Ivatt tank Keighley & Worth Valley Railway.jpg
Ivatt 2MT 2-6-2T 41241 at Haworth station
The Platform, Oxenhope Railway Station, terminus of the Keighley and Worth Valley Railway (photo by Nigel Homer, 2006)
Damems Junction signal box

The Keighley and Worth Valley Railway is a five-mile (eight-km) long heritage railway line in West Yorkshire, England, that runs from Keighley to Oxenhope. It connects to the national rail network line at Keighley. It is currently the first and only Heritage Railway that operates a whole branch line in its original form.

History

The line was built in 1867 by local mill owners, but operated by the Midland Railway, which owned most of the rail network in the area, and was eventually bought by the Midland.

After becoming part of the London, Midland and Scottish Railway in 1923, ownership passed to British Railways following nationalisation in 1948. As a part of the rail cutbacks in the 1960s, British Railways closed the line at the end of 1962.

However a preservation society was formed which bought the line from BR and reopened it in 1968 as a heritage railway. The line is now a major tourist attraction operated entirely by volunteers and carries more than 110,000 passengers every year. The KWVR is currently the only preserved railway that operates a complete branch line in its original form. It is celebrated among beer lovers for operating the only buffet car serving real ale.

The line and its bridges and tunnels including a deviation were built as single track but with provision for duplication, should the need arise.

Stations and facilities

Special events

  • During Summer 2008, 45212 is expected to return for the final of its 3 visits permitted during its 10 year boiler certificate, to participate in an event to mark 40 years since the end of steam on BR.

Operational steam locomotives

80002
  • BR 2-6-4T Class 4MT no. 80002 (Used regularly, especially in summer, boiler ticket expires in 2015)
  • L&Y 0-6-0 Class 25 "Ironclad" no. 957 (later BR Class 2F no. 52044, boiler ticket expires in 2011) (Used on summer vintage trains and during special events)
  • LMS 2-6-2T Class 2MT no. 41241 (Used regularly)
  • LMS 0-6-0T Class 3F "Jinty" no. 47279 (Used regularly. boiler ticket expires in 2011)
  • Taff Vale Railway 0-6-2T no. 85 (Used regularly, boiler ticket expires in June 2009)
  • BR 2-8-0 Austerity no. 90733 (In regular use, boiler ticket expires in 2017)
  • Hudswell Clarke 0-6-0T no. 1704 "Nunlow" steam tested and moved under its own power 6th June 2008. (Boiler ticket expires 2018)

Steam Locomotives undergoing light repair

Steam locomotives under overhaul or restoration

  • BR standard class 4 4-6-0 no. 75078 (Undergoing a ten year overhaul. Boiler away for overhaul. Completion is due for 2014)
  • Midland Railway 3835 Class 0-6-0 (LMS Class 4F) no. 43924 (Stripped down for restoration. Good progress is being made on the overhaul, which is focusing on the frames presently. Boiler away for overhaul. Completion is expected in 2012)
  • LNER 0-6-0ST Class J94 no. 68077 (Undergoing overhaul at the Spa Valley Railway where the loco's dismantling is nearly done)
  • SR 4-6-2 West Country Class no. 34092 "City of Wells" (The boiler cladding is now all on and the boiler is now being tackled. The engine is expected to steam in 2009)
  • USATC S160 Class 2-8-0 no. 5820 "Big Jim" (Under restoration; the frames are making good progress. Driving wheels re-tyred. Most brake and suspension parts have been overhauled or renewed. Refitting has begun. New tender bogies require some modification.)
  • LNWR Webb Coal Tank 0-6-2T no. 1054 (Undergoing restoration at Ingrow Workshops with work on the frames and boiler going well)
  • LMS 0-6-0ST L&YR Class 23 No 752. Undergoing restoration, the frames, smokebox and saddle tank are just about finished and the boiler has been steam tested, a few more jobs need to be done like putting the locomotive back together again, planned to be in traffic in 2008.

Stored and static steam locomotives

  • BR 2-6-0 Class 2MT no. 78022. (Withdrawn for ten year overhaul in 2002 and is currently on display in the museum at Oxenhope. It is expected that the overhaul will begin in 2010)
  • GWR 0-6-0PT 5700 Class no. 5775. On display at Oxenhope. (Not expected to enter the workshops before 2019)
  • L&Y 0-4-0ST Class 21 "Pug" no. 68 (later BR Class 0F no. 51218). (Stored awaiting overhaul which is planned to start once 752 is finished)
  • LMS 4-6-0 Class 5XP Jubilee no. 45596 "Bahamas". (Awaiting overhaul. Funding is being arranged by the Bahamas Trust, and work will begin upon completion of the 'Coal Tank')
  • LMS 2-8-0 Class 8F no. 48431. (On display in the museum at Oxenhope)
  • SR 0-6-0T Class USA no. 30072. (On display in the Oxenhope museum, requires extensive firebox repairs. Not expected to enter the workshops before 2019)
  • MSC 0-6-0ST no. 31 Hamburg. (Requires a new inner firebox and a general overhaul)
  • LMR 0-6-0ST no. 118 "Brussels". (Requires a general overhaul)
  • Andrew Barclay 0-4-0ST no. 2258 "Tiny". (On display at Ingrow awaiting a general overhaul, owned by the Bahamas trust)
  • Robert Stephenson and Hawthorns 0-4-0 crane tank no. 7069 "Southwick". (On display at Ingrow awaiting overhaul)
  • Manning Wardle 0-4-0ST "Lord Mayor". (On display at Ingrow awaiting overhaul)

Operational diesel locomotives

  • BR 0-6-0 Hudswell Clarke (British Rail Class D2/12) shunter no. D2511. In use as the Works train shunter after a recent engine and cylinder liner repair.
  • BR 0-6-0 Class 08 no. 13336 (ex-08266). In use but restricted to Haworth yard duties as the Locomotive is currently suffering from worn tyres. Appeared at 2008 Diesel Gala working shuttles between Keighley and Ingrow.
  • Port of Bristol Authority Diesel Mechanical 0-6-0 no. 23 "Merlin". In use, currently at Oxenhope station as it is the carriage and wagon shunter.
  • BR Bo-Bo Class 25 no. 25059 (ex-D5209). In service following repairs.

Diesel locomotives under repair

  • BR 0-6-0 Prototype EE shunter no. D226 "Vulcan". Suffered a main generator failure in June 2006 and has also developed bearing problems. A group have now started the overhaul of the engine.
  • Mersey Docks and Harbour Board Diesel Mechanical 0-6-0 no. 32 "Huskisson". Currently undergoing a long delayed axlebox overhaul.
  • BR Bo-Bo Class 20 no. D8031 (ex-20031). Returned to traffic in July 2006 after a generator repair. Out of service again due to main generator bearing failure.

Operational diesel multiple units

  • BR Class 108 unit 50928+51565. Both are in regular use but when the 101 set is in traffic this set will be withdrawn for overhaul.
  • BR Railbuses No 79964. In regular use on morning diesel services.

Diesel multiple units under overhaul or restoration

  • BR Class 101 unit 51803+51189. Under restoration. Both vehicle's mechanical restorations have been done and both are shortly going to be painted in BR blue. The unit is expected to start carrying passengers in 2007.
  • BR Railbuses No 79962. Currently stored and sheeted over in Haworth yard, the engines restoration has been finished and once shed space is available the body, wheels and frames will be restored. It is expected to be finished in 2008 which is the railways 40th anniversery of when it was first preserved.

Locomotive notes

  • 'Black Five' no.45212 is operational but currently based on the North Yorkshire Moors Railway, as part of a deal which will see it running there until it has covered 70,000 miles. This could take the entire 10-year duration of the boiler ticket.
  • 'Coal Tank' no.1054 is currently undergoing overhaul at Ingrow. Once its owning group have completed the repairs, attention will be focused on returning "Bahamas" to traffic.
  • Steam Engines in line for a return to steam before the end of the decade are no.34092 "City Of Wells", and no.43924, which was the first engine salvaged from Barry Scrapyard in South Wales to be returned to steam on a heritage line, back in the 1970s.
  • Somerset & Dorset Railway 7F 2-8-0 no.53809, currently based at the Midland Railway Butterley, is due to visit the K&WVR in Autumn for their second steam gala of the year. This will be the locomotive's second visit, as it spent time on the railway during the 1980s.
  • Class 101 vehicle No 51803 is operational but out of service awaiting a repaint in BR blue livery, 51189's interior and mechanical restoration is nearing completion and it to is awaiting a reapaint. The unit will hopefully be ready for service in 2007 allowing the 108 set to be withdrawn for repairs.

Vintage carriages

The railway has a large collection of Vintage Carriages. Some are used to carry passengers on specially selected open days.

Metropolitan 465 'Dreadnought' 9-compartment third built 1919
SR 3554 'Matchboard' Continental Brake third built 1924

Use In film and television

The line and its stations has been used numerous period film and television productions including films The Railway Children and Yanks & in an episode of the longest running sitcom Last of the Summer Wine in 1979.

External links

Wikimedia Commons has media related to Keighley and Worth Valley Railway.
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Khoikhoi/Archived&oldid=243699356"