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January 30

Florida primary

I've heard from many sources that both the Republicans and Democrats have stripped the state of all of its delegates. Is that correct? And if so, why is a primary still being held there? Are there other forms of representation? --The Dark Side (talk) 01:08, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

The Democrats have done so, as "punishment" for moving the date of the primary, many sources have thus been calling the election a "beauty contest". I don't believe the Republicans have done the same, if so, that would make Rudy Giuliani's strategy really flawed. --LarryMac | Talk 01:10, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit conflict] In fact, the Republicans have stripped the state of half of its delegates as a punishment for holding the primary too early in the process. The Republicans will still seat half of the Florida delegates. The Democrats have vowed not to seat any Florida delegates when they hold their nominating convention. The primary is still being held because states have the authority to set dates for primaries and other elections, and the national parties do not have the authority to stop the primaries. They do, however, have the authority to decide the rules for admission to the nominating convention. By defying the national parties, Florida politicians forfeited their (full) access to the nominating conventions. Nonetheless, because Florida is a swing state with a large number of electoral votes, the outcome of its primary will influence the parties' choice. Marco polo (talk) 01:15, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

JC-1 H2 Literature texts

I just started taking JC-1 H2 Literature this year. I have to study five texts, two under "Reading Literature" (which H1 students also take) and three under "Literature and Identity".

One of my "Reading Literature" texts is Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austen. Is it a difficult book to study? Do you have any advice?

In secondary school, I did "Macbeth". It was fun and easy. Now I have to study "Othello" for "Reading Literature" and "King Lear" for "Literature and Identity". How are the two texts similar and diferent to "Macbeth"? Are they more difficult? Any advice for someone who has already studied "Macbeth"?

How about "Ariel" by Sylvia Plath? I understand it is a book of poems. I am better with prose than poems but I know the literary devices for poems and scored A1 for Literature in secondary school. Same questions - is it difficult and do you have any advice?

My last "Literature and Identity" text is "Fistful of Colours". I will not ask for advice about that book because it is by a local author and Wikipedia has no article about the book.

By the way, thanks for helping me with my Economics. You guys rock! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.21.155.8 (talk) 03:11, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Anyone have the slightest clue what JC-1 H2 means? Malcolm Starkey (talk) 08:10, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

My guess: JC-1 = Junior college, Year 1; H2 = category Higher 2.  --Lambiam 08:53, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Pride and Prejudice is a fairly easy book to study and funny too. Study the two other plays the way you did the Macbeth.. I didn't find Ariel difficult,you have good skills it seems to tackle it. Enjoy,there's some great reads there. hotclaws 10:35, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm surprised that anyone could consider Macbeth either 'fun' or 'easy', let alone both... AndrewWTaylor (talk) 13:01, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Macbeth is easy when compared to other Shakespeare plays. It's short, the plot is straightforward, the themes are clear, and there's very little comedy. Gdr 13:48, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

I thought Macbeth was great fun when we did it at school - plenty of blood and guts and witches. DuncanHill (talk) 13:55, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

I just hope the curse doesn't apply to Refdesk discussions... AndrewWTaylor (talk) 15:57, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

I've just remembered a production I saw once that provoked some unintended audience laughter when some characters knelt down (probably showing allegiance to Malcolm) and the swords that were hanging from their belts touched the floor of the stage and visibly bent. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 15:59, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

165.21, just as there is no Royal Road to Geometry, there is no Easy Route to Literature: it's a personal voyage of self-discovery. After all, it is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single person in possession of intelligence, must be in want of a book! I could, of course, refer you to the Wikipedia pages on Pride and Prejudice, Othello and King Lear for some general guidance, but there is really no substitute for reading these works yourself and reaching your own conclusions. In a way I envy you, particularly in coming to Jane Austen for the first time. I read Pride and Prejudice when I was about ten years old and simply loved it; loved the characters and loved the way Austen created dramatic and romantic tension. You have a great discovery ahead!

As for the Shakespeare, you will find both Othello and King Lear more demanding than Macbeth, though all might be said to take their departure from aspects of the leading characters' personalities: if Macbeth is about ambition, Othello is about the interplay between jealousy and malice. In King Lear the tragedy emerges from the conceit, pride and misjudgment of the eponymous hero, a man who was 'old before he was wise.'

You will appreciate the poems in Aerial a little better if you discover something about the life of Sylvia Plath. In reading Lady Lazarus be mindful of the Bible story-I am Lazarus, come from the dead (to quote another poet altogether!) Clio the Muse (talk) 00:14, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Lambiam is correct. JC-1 = Junior college year 1, H2 = category Higher 2. By the way, your junior college article is all rubbish. No offence.

AndrewWTaylor, Macbeth is very interesting. The story, characters and themes are easy to understand but still thought provoking. My other secondary school text, The Joy Luck Club by Amy Tan, was also thought provoking but much harder.

Thanks for all the advice, HotClaws and Clio the Muse. So Pride and Prejudice is easy, interesting and funny? Looks like I will enjoy my two years of studying JC H2 Literature and (hopefully) get an A in the A Levels. From your advice, I understand that Othello and King Lear will be similar to Macbeth but more demanding. I heard that Macbeth, Othello and King Lear are all typical Shakespeare tragedies where a good man has a tragic flaw which causes his downfall, but the tragic flaw is different in each play. Is that accurate? Lastly, is the language in Othello and King Lear similar to that in Macbeth? It took me a few months to get used to the "anon"s, "withal"s, etc. when I studied Macbeth. Some of my classmates did not take Literature in secondary school, or studied texts that were not by Shakespeare. If the language is similar I will have a head start over them as they will have to spend a few months getting used to the language.

Hello again, 165.21. There is really not an awful lot to add to what I have already written in the above, other than to confirm your assumption that the three tragedies in question are predicated on a crucial flaw in the character of the leading player. You will find little difference in the forms of language, and modes of expression, used in each of the three plays, though the dramatic structure in Othello and King Lear is more complex than that in Macbeth. There is, of course, no substitute for reading these plays yourself or, better still, seeing a performance. It might help you along your way, though, if you dipped into a study guide. Laurie Macguire's Studying Shakespeare: a Guide to the Plays is quite good. Clio the Muse (talk) 23:40, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! Guess I will have a head start then. I will try to get a copy of "Studying Shakespeare". They told us in advance which texts we will study but we will only buy them and start studying them in late February.

Assassination or murder?

How famous/important does a person have to be before its assassination rather than murder?--TreeSmiler (talk) 01:26, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

While famous people are more likely to be assassinated, notoriety alone does not make it an assassination. If a world-famous politician were killed by his wife over a personal matter, it would not be considered an assassination. Conversely, if an obscure civil servant were killed for resisting the mafia, it could justifiably be called an assassination. So, to answer your question, the person needn't be famous, but he must be important enough to justify the risk of killing him. We're used to famous people being assassinated because their deaths are more notable. Lantzy ^talk 02:09, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Take Gianni Versace and Anna Politkovskaya. Versace was wealthy and world-famous, but his killing was not politically motivated, and therefore he is said to have been murdered, not assassinated. Politkovskaya, on the other hand, was not particularly famous, but the motive (or presumed motive) was political, so she is said to have been assassinated. It may be a little more complicated than that: some politically-motivated killings are not considered assassinations if the victims are neither noteworthy nor "powerful", officially or by influence. For example, the Mississippi civil rights worker murders are rarely deemed assassinations, although they were politically motivated. So in summary: you don't have to be famous to be assassinated, but it helps. And if you are famous, your murder isn't necessarily an assassination. Lantzy ^talk 02:29, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

My take on this is that the specific thing that makes a murder become an assassination is the motive of the killer. If the murderer is killing the victim because of what public position in society the victim has, then it is an an assassination. If it is due to other reasons, it is murder. For instance, a politician may be killed by someone because he was found in the killer's bed with the killer's wife - but that would be a crime of passion, not an assassination. On the other hand, if a man who's wife has had an affair with a politician is hired to kill that politician by a Mafia crime boss, then it would be regarded as an assassination, most likely. The importance of the position that the person has in society is not too critical of a factor - even a very minor village clerk may be a target of an assassination. It's not the importance of the victim that is crucial, but the motive of the killer. -- Saukkomies 17:04, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

In French, or perhaps only Quebec French, and then perhaps only in newspapers, "assassiné" is the usual term for anyone who has been murdered, even a random person. Adam Bishop (talk) 08:19, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

This is also the case in Spanish. Lantzy ^talk 05:32, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Public Hangings in the United Kingdom and France

I have read the respective articles on capital punishment in the United Kingdom and France, but the two articles are not particularly clear on when public hangings were abolished. Could anyone tell me when such activities were abolished, and why? Splintercellguy (talk) 01:33, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Michael Barrett was the last person publically hanged in the UK, in 1868. The Capital Punishment (Amendment) Act of that year banned public execution following the recommendations of a Royal Commission. FiggyBee (talk) 05:43, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

France preferred the guillotine to hanging; the last public execution was that of Eugen Weidmann in 1939 (pictures). According to [1], "around 30-40,000 rowdy, drunken, screaming and singing would-be spectators spent the night partying in the surrounding streets... After the execution was over and the guillotine had been dismantled, this bloodthirsty crowd invaded the area. Reports of women dipping handkerchiefs in the bloody water on the sidewalk were, in fact, true. It is not known if the crowd's undignified behavior, the illegal photography and filming, the flashy press coverage or the new executioner's apparent incompetence prompted it, but the government put an end to public executions by the following month." Gdr 11:27, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Tony Blair would draw quite a crowd!--Johnluckie (talk) 07:57, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Coat pulled over the head

What are the origins of having a coat pulled over the head for banishment and/or disgrace? I saw it in the Archibald Armstrong court jester article. Is it related (in the opposite way) to the sports gesture of pulling a shirt over the head? Julia Rossi (talk) 02:18, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't know about ultimate origins, but the practice was common in primary-school classrooms in the United States during the 1960s and 1970s. The teacher would tell the naughty child to stand in the corner with his coat over his head. Probably this was the idea of some teacher earlier in the 20th century—perhaps as an alternative to corporal punishment—and the idea spread. Marco polo (talk) 17:04, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

• "Go on, and pull his coat over his ears: There are too many such.--Give them their right." Sir Thomas More II.ii
• "...out a doors with the knave, turn the coat over his ears." The London Prodigal I.iii
• "Will, sir? Then do your office, Master Usher, Make him put off his jerkin; you may pluck His coat over his ears, much more his jerkin." The Gentleman Usher II.i
• "Why I was exiled from court having my jesting coat plucked off, few men are ignorant of,..." Archy's Dream

—eric 19:38, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

These days you often see it on TV reports, if the person doesn't want to be filmed they will pull their coat over their head in order to stop themselves from being identified. They do this because it's the only option available to them at the time. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 08:43, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

If it's a coat or jacket, it also seems to restrain their arms which would add to the humiliation, maybe. Thanks people. Julia Rossi (talk) 00:30, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Al Gore

What's the latest date that Al Gore could enter the presidential race...

...as a democratic candidate?

...as an independent candidate? The Transhumanist 02:24, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Technically, he needn't enter at all. Strom Thurmond held a successful write-in campaign. Even thought it wasn't on the scale of a presidential race, Gore could have a shot that way. Paragon12321 (talk) 02:44, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

It would depend on the state; each state has separate rules for qualification for ballot access. As stated above, he could also run as a write-in, but even write-ins have to register as candidates by one date or another. Of course, you also have the question as to when is the last feasible date at which he could enter. I think that date has past, considering that Super Duper Tuesday is next week. Al Gore is solidly in the Democratic camp and wouldn't run against Hillary Clinton or Barak Obama. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 03:24, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

To be the Democratic candidate, he would have to be nominated by the Democratic National Convention. So the latest he could throw his hat in is during the convention - August 25 to 28. FiggyBee (talk) 07:52, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

The possibility seems remote, but... Xn4 09:29, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Garlic? FiggyBee (talk) 11:39, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Amtrak v Miller

Sometime between 1971-1975 Kansas Attorney General Vern Miller raided and Amtrak passenger train in Newton, Kansas and confiscated all liquor on board because Amtrak had flagrantly sold liquor by the drink to its passengers in violation of Kansas law. I believe that the case was first tried in a local court, Amtrak immediately asked a Federal court for an injunction to prevent further such raids and lost the bid and ultimately the case was fast-tracked to the U.S. Supreme Court which declared it al certiore, upholding the origional conviction. My question is simply, what date did Miller's raid take place?

Mike D. 1/29/2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Treernch (talk • contribs) 02:41, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Amtrak isn't really called Amtrak, and so the actual name of the court case was "National Railroad Passenger Corporation v. Miller", 414 U.S. 948 (1973). By searching on the numerical part I found that the US Supreme Court ruling is available online here, but only if you register. However, in Google News they have something called a News Archive Search, which generally produces results that you have to pay for — but the synopses are free. If you search in there for "Vern Miller" and "Amtrak", you will see a number of non-free articles referring to the story. The date is given in the first synopsis: July 18, 1972. If you scroll down to the Holland Evening Sentinel link and click on that, the page shows you the first few words of the article, which also confirm that date.

Thanks, that was fun.

Incidentally, just to confuse things, this was not the only Amtrak court case involving a Vern Miller that turns up in that last search. The other Vern Miller was an Amtrak police officer. --Anonymous, 04:20 UTC, January 30, 2008.

Pronunciation: Ayn Rand

While I appreciate as much as anyone the use of an academic tool just because one can, I wonder how many users of WP can actually read the IP pronunciations? (That was an aside.) Is there someone who can give me a rhyme for the correct pronunciation of this author's given (or, in this case, "taken") name. Does her surname share a pronunciation with the South African unit of currency, or does the "a" have another sound? Thank you. Bielle (talk) 03:24, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

The IPA at her article says that "Ayn" rhymes with "fine", "line", "pine", and "wine", and Rand, like the monetary unit, rhymes with "band", "land", and "sand". --Anon, 03:37 UTC, January 30, 2008.

Thank you, Anon. ៛ Bielle (talk) 03:59, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Though rand, the monetary unit, is an Afrikaans word, and doesn't actually rhyme with the English "band", "land", and "sand" if pronounced properly. Its a closer rhyme to "Brandt" or "runt". Rockpocket 08:08, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Ah, good point. I was talking about the pronunciation used in English. --Anonymous, 16:47 UTC, Jan. 30.

Personally I think the IPA stuff is a bit opaque. I've found that I often can't use Wikipedia's own IPA resource to decode IPA; I wish there was a simpler, "how to read IPA" page created on here if we are going to obsessively tag things in IPA. --24.147.69.31 (talk) 23:32, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Is Help:Pronunciation too difficult? If so, maybe you could make suggestions on the talk page how to make it easier to understand. —Angr ^{If you've written a quality article...} 07:27, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

As for rhymes, there is of course the classic "A Simple Desultory Phillipic" from the Simon & Garfunkel album "Parsley, Sage, Rosemary, and Thyme":

"I been Ayn Randed

Nearly branded a Communist

'cause I'm left-handed . . ."

(Note the internal rhyme: Rand/brand - thus identifying the pronunciation of the last name. It was this song, also, from which I learned the (much less obvious) pronunciation of the first name - yes, to rhyme with "line".) --KTK (talk) 05:04, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Use of IPA in education?

Just inspired by the last thread, I wonder how much IPA is used in basic education (I'm thinking primary and secondary schools) in various countries? I know that in many non-English speaking countries at least, IPA is used to teach English and other foreign languages, and a basic study of the IPA system is part of the foreign language curriculum in secondary school. However, I don't think I ever encountered it as part of the curriculum during my schooling here in Australia - one has to sort of pick it up from dictionaries etc. I wonder if the situation is similar in the UK or the US? What about non-English speaking European countries? --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 06:10, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Certainly not in the U.S. There, it's only used in university-level phonetics courses. (Not even in phonology courses!) —Angr ^{If you've written a quality article...} 06:24, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

The same is true of Canada. IPA is a very specialized course at the university level, and if it were not for its appearance in dictionaries, most of us would never have seen it at all. (All this may explain why, in more than 5 decades, I have never tried to use a dictionary for pronunciation, but only for meaning, emphasis and syllabification.) ៛ Bielle (talk) 06:38, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

There is no IPA at all in the Netherlands until university level, while we do have English, French and German as obligatory foreign languages at high school. User:Krator (t c) 08:52, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps not anymore, with the rapid decline of Dutch education. But I was taught IPA in a Dutch school, during my English classes, when I was 14 (in 1984). 194.171.56.13 (talk) 09:35, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

That's very interesting. It seems that where English is spoken as a native language, and in European countries where other European languages are taught as close-to-native languages, the IPA is much less relied upon. I wonder if there is a correlation in the other direction - that not using IPA makes teaching more effective? --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 09:02, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

There used to be the ITA in the U.K. (and sporadically elsewhere)... AnonMoos (talk) 11:52, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm a Belgian, and I very briefly encountered it in English classes during my high school years ('99-'05). Not sure if that was because our teacher was married to a linguist, or because it's in the curriculum somewhere. Random Nonsense (talk) 14:24, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

In my experience in Finland a decade or two ago, most schoolbooks on foreign languages used a mix of IPA symbols for the sounds that are not natural in Finnish, and standard Finnish orthography for the sounds that do occur in Finnish. Since English pronunciation is quite alien for a Finnish speaker, a typical pronunciation guide for an English word might contain on average about half of each type of symbol. Given this early introduction, learning more of IPA later on hasn't been too difficult. 84.239.133.86 (talk) 22:00, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

I fondly remember IPA from my schooldays. Oh, you were talking about something else... ObiterDicta ( pleadings • errata • appeals ) 00:33, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

A lot of English learners encounter a simplified version of the IPA while learning English, because the pronunciation has to be provided. It is usually the same type of phonemicisation that is found in dictionaries. There is, of course, no standard of simplified phonetic transcription for dictionaries, although they don't vary too much. I taught myself how to read the pronunciations in my dictionary in primary school, but I was (and still am) a nerd. Steewi (talk) 06:11, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

It was on the curriculum in the second year of my gymnasium (students aged 16-17). It was mainly used for illustrating differences between Icelandic dialects/accents and to illustrate the differences between Old Icelandic and Modern Icelandic. If memory serves we had a slightly localized version with thorn instead of theta. We also saw some IPA in French classes around that time. Haukur (talk) 10:43, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Giving your staff shares as part of salary arrangement

I always imagined that if I ever ran a business it would be nice if I gave my staff a theoretical percentage stake in the business that would be commensorate with their salaries. So for example if the business does $100 000 turnover each month, and someone's salary was about $5000, they would get 5%. In months when the business makes less than $100 000, that person's salary is protected and they still get $5000, but in months where the business makes more than $100 000, that person would get 5%, therefore getting paid more.
I imagined that this would be a genuine way to give staff an incentive to make the business grow.
However these shares are retracted as soon as employment terminates, cannot be 'bought' or 'sold', and have nothing to do with decision making.
Is there a name for this kind of arrangement, and do you know of any cases where this has been implemented? And if you like you can give your opinion.
Rfwoolf (talk) 09:29, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

It's called profit sharing. FiggyBee (talk) 11:44, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

The John Lewis Partnership may be of interest. DuncanHill (talk) 22:04, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Greats of Martial Arts

1.There bests of all time martial artists ,has worked on chinese martial arts( like kung-fu) and experienced . and have excellent philosophocal sight on it and also the principles like meditation and morality. actually contributed that style to evolution.

2.Besides ,has organized and codified the techniques and construction of style. The best books? (Active in teaching and improved that style's knowledge.)Flakture (talk) 11:54, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

What is your question? Are you asking who is considered great in the field of martial arts, studied many Chinese disciplines, studied meditation, and wrote a book on his own technique? See Bruce Lee. -- kainaw™ 19:05, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

I suspect the OP is looking for a grnad unified theory of martial arts, or at least of Chinese/East Asian martial arts. I don't know of one myself, although some of the newer martial arts claim to be something like that. Steewi (talk) 06:13, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

City of Vice

I've been watching, and enjoying, City of Vice on Channel Four. It depicts London as a fairly grim place and I was wondering how accurate this is and what ordinary life was like in the city in the early eighteenth century? 217.42.105.140 (talk) 11:56, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Read the crime stats and you wonder if much HAS changed!--Johnluckie (talk) 14:15, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes. Much has changed. The over-riding trend over the past few centuries has been the increasingly universal respect for the Rule of Law, and drastically reduced rates of crime (despite the fact that more previously-legal acts are criminalised per year, than previously-criminal acts are legalised). Conversely, fear of crime has increased almost exponentially, especially after the advent of mass media - all this really proves is that human beings are empty-minded morons who cannot be trusted to intelligently interpret the data given to them. Ninebucks (talk) 18:05, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

I assume you must have come here from Mars, Ninebucks, in which case welcome to my world. Or are you, perhaps, the one person on this planet who is not an empty-headed moron? Clio the Muse (talk) 00:22, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

I think Ninebucks makes a fair point. People are very bad at judging risk and evaluating danger in the circumstances that most of us in the UK find ourselves in. It is very easy to develop an unreasonable fear and sense of danger from reading the papers and watching the news, when calm analysis of the available data would show a different picture. But most of us do not calmly analyse all the data available to us. I would include myself, and Ninebucks, in this generalisation. It takes effort to avoid falling into this trap, and you have to exert the effort every time you are presented with information, and seek out alternative information, or your view gets corrupted. So yes, human beings are empty-minded morons who cannot be trusted to intelligently interpret the data given to them; rules must be created for the interpretation of data before anything useful can be extracted. Skittle (talk) 18:18, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Oh, I see; then I am the Martian, one of those who create the rules. But never mind, Skittle; there is even a place in the universe for empty-headed morons, including all those who manage to split infinitives! Clio the Muse (talk) 19:37, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Oh, it is easy to casually split an infinitive in English; perhaps if we were writing Latin there would be more to wonder at :P You create rules, and following the rules can analyse the data. Without the rules, the analysis would be useless. So you are one of us after all! Skittle (talk) 02:48, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Looking at your question in the most general terms, 217.42, London was considerably grimmer in the eighteenth century than depicted in City of Vice. Crime was grim, punishment was grim and general living conditions were grim. Travellers coming from the countryside would have been able to smell the city well before they saw it, as sewage was collected and deposited in great heaps by the so-called 'night soil' men on the roadside or in the market gardens just outside the city. In the city itself the drains, or the 'kennels', as they were known, were often overflowing with sewage and the other detritus of urban life. Jonathan Swift wrote that the kennels were often blocked with "Sweepings from Butchers Stalls, Dung, Guts, and Blood, all drench'd in Mud, Dead Cats and Turnip-Tops."

Given this lack of hygiene disease was another of the hazards of city life. Mosquito-borne malaria was transmitted from the nearby marshes, and typhoid by drinking water. Dysentery was also a major problem. Smallpox was virulent, as was the Great pox, or syphilis, hardly surprising given the licentious morals show in City of Vice! As many as one in three babies died before the age of three, and half of the survivors did not live beyond their fifteenth birthday.

With no street lighting, and little in the way of public security, the city was especially dangerous at night. Cruel times bred cruel people, with bear-baiting and cock-fighting among the favoured spectator sports. But the favourite sport of all was the public hangings at Tyburn, which brought the whole city to a standstill in unofficial public holidays. So, in every sense, life was 'nasty, brutish and short'. Clio the Muse (talk) 00:22, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Ah, but are we (generally speaking) any less cruel now we live in a cleaner, healthier, brighter world? I don't think so. If we take cock-fighting as an example, just a few years ago I encountered a cock-fight in a village in northern England, and it hardly raised a brow. Still, this was the same village where someone was knee-capped, so I suppose it was par for the course. Gwinva (talk) 19:53, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

The Red Tsar

Does anyone know who coined Joseph Stalin's pseudonym of 'The Red Tsar'? It has been most famously used in the title of Simon Sebag Montefiore's biography of the man, 'Stalin: The Court of the Red Tsar', published in 2003, but I'm certain that the phrase was first used well before then. Any ideas?

Thanks. 81.140.151.57 (talk) 13:00, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Before Stalin, and even before the Soviet Union, the "Red Tsar" was Yakov Sverdlov, according to Robert Wilton in The Last Days of the Romanovs. I can't find a good source here, but Sverdlov's Jewish parents were probably the reason Wilton emphasized his role in the government.—eric 18:46, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

I would have thought that Stalin had a far greater right to this title than Sverdlov, whose power was of a limited and transitory nature. I cannot say for certain if the appellation was ever used before Montefiore alighted on it as a title for his book, though it is possible it may have derived from Nikolai Bukharin's description of Stalin as 'Genghis Khan with a telephone.' Clio the Muse (talk) 00:36, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

It is also highly linked to the similarities between Tsarist pre-1917 Russia and Stalins Russia SGGH ^speak! 11:25, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Red refers to Stalins political affiliation; Communism, as well as Stalins way of ruling the country, was vary "tsar-like". Yeltsinfan (talk) 00:54, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

What is معلاي

Can someone tell me what is the meaning above in arabic? and here is the video of it [this] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.14.119.126 (talk) 16:10, 30 January 2008 (UTC) Is this bad in Islam or is it part of the Arab culture? Why do they shake their butts only? Which country does this? This question may sound offensive but this is only for Arabs. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.14.119.126 (talk) 16:13, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Just a heads up: this is an Arabic/English site where you have to register to see the video, and it is labelled, for whatever reason, "for mature audiences only". ៛ Bielle (talk) 16:56, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

معلاي looks like it might be from the root معل which can mean sick. If this is the case, it might mean "my sickness", or "my weakness". I haven't seen the video, but I suspect they're showing Raqs Sharqi or belly dancing. Publicly doing this is considered improper and perhaps indecent under conservative Islam, but it has a (folk legendary?) history as a form of entertainment practised among women, rather than being performed for men's benefit. It is considered skillful to be able to dance it with only the hips, keeping the shoulders and head steady, even to balancing a sword placed across the top of the head. Steewi (talk) 06:26, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

When he asked this before I think we misidentified it as related to height/highness. According to Google it appears to be a name, I see lots of "Ahmad ibn Ma'alaai" (or however it may be transliterated) for example. But the results all see to be for this video or something like it. Adam Bishop (talk) 08:15, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Additional - reading the belly dancing article more carefully shows that it has a history of men performing it, not just women, although segregation has previously been the norm during performance. Steewi (talk) 23:50, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Just look at the video and you answer my question, please and thank you.

Highland Army

I would like to know the exact reasons why the Scottish government sent the Highlanders into south-west Scotland in 1678? Was it to end a rebellion? Why Highlanders? I know some of you are very good at Scottish history. Donald Paterson (talk) 17:29, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

I find the sentence "After leaving Holland, Graham was appointed captain by Charles II and sent to south-west Scotland in 1678, with orders to suppress conventicles (outdoor Presbyterian meetings) that the king deemed seditious." in John Graham, 1st Viscount of Dundee, if that's of any use. I presume this is the event you're asking about. can't speculate on why highlanders, other than perhaps that they were no so likely to be Presbyterians. --Tagishsimon (talk) 17:33, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

See also Covenanter and Royal Scots Fusiliers, fwiw. --Tagishsimon (talk) 17:35, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

It's a complex issue, Donald, the roots of which can be traced back to the Restoration in Scotland, and even further back to the Bishops' Wars, a curtain-raiser to the Wars of the Three Kingdoms.

Anyway, when Scotland was controlled by the Covenanters church government was completely overhauled, with Presbyterianism replacing Episcopacy. Though this was welcomed in the southern Lowlands, especially in the south-west of the country, large parts of the northern Lowlands and the Highlands continued to favour Episcopacy. Not only that but they were politically hostile to the southern government, generally referred to as the 'Whigs.'

After the Restoration in 1660 the government of Charles II decided to sweep the radical past aside, restoring Episcopacy, amongst other measures. Resistance to this was particularly strong in the counties of the south-west, the heartland of the Covenant. Years of trouble and semi-rebellion followed, with the government resorting to repression and conciliation by turns. Finally, in 1678, John Maitland, 1st Duke of Lauderdale, Charles' chief minister in Scotland, and himself an old Covenanter, decided to subdue the obdurate southern shires by raising an army from among the very people they feared most-the clans of the north. This was the so-called Highland Host, not Army, which moved into the area at the beginning of the year, staying for a few weeks. During that time the local people were forced to maintain the Host at their own expense. Though few people were harmed most were robbed, as the Host finally left the area, weighed down with plunder.

It was a bad-tempered move by a bad-tempered government, which only served to make matters worse, increasing still further the distrust between Highlanders and Lowlanders. When a major rebellion finally broke out in the following year the Whigs published a Declaration, proclaiming that "all manners of outrages have been most arbitrarily exercised upon us through the tract of several years past; particularly in the year 1678 by sending among us an armed host of barbarous savages contrary to all law and humanity." Clio the Muse (talk) 01:06, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

source for Pindar's 7th Olympian Ode

Dear Wikipedia,

I see several references on your site with the following translation of Pindar's 7th Olympian (or Olympic) Ode from ancient Greek:

The animated figures stand
Adorning every public street
And seem to breathe in stone, or
move their marble feet.

yet I see no citation for this.

Can you tell me what the source of this translation was or who the translator was at least?

I know of two other translation to English, that of Richmond Lattimore, (line 52, Odes of Pindar .) and William H. Race, but not this one is not familiar

It is referenced on your site in articles on:

1. Pygmalion (mythology)

1. Automaton

1. Antikythera mechanism

Thanks,

V. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Omittamusstudia (talk • contribs) 17:44, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

It takes a little time, but if you have a look at the history of those pages, you can find out who added it and maybe ask them on their talk page. For example, the quote was inserted in the Automaton article on June 10, 2006 by User:ChrisO. I didn't check the history of the other articles. David Šenek (talk) 20:40, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Finding the editor might not do much to answer the question, the lines probably made their way onto Wikipedia thru this (pg. 7) deceitful passage in Rosheim, M. E. (1994) Robot Evolution: The Development of Anthrobotics.—eric 00:49, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

A few other translations:

• For on their roads ran the semblances of beasts and creeping things... Ernest Myers, (1904) [2]

• and the roads bore works of art like living, moving creatures... Diane Svarlien, The Perseus Project (1990) [3]

• Shapes exact of beasts and reptiles all their city's ways did fill. Francis David Morice (1876) [4]

• So that the very ways by which ye pass / Bore sculpture, living things that walk or creep / Like as the life: whence very high and deep Indeed the glory of the artist was. Robert Browning (1915)

and Basil L. Gildersleeve's note on the passage.—eric 20:57, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Filling gaps in the CV

What are my alternatives for filling gaps in a CV? (due to whatever, it is not of your business, but it can not be on the CV).217.168.3.246 (talk) 23:33, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Say you were "on a retreat" -factual yet hazy enough to be anything. hotclaws 01:38, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

(after edit conflict) Lying on your CV is not a good plan. Sure, you might get away with it, but it's a type of fraud and if you're caught, can mean that you mightn't be offered/may be fired from the job, and depending on your location and the nature of the lie may be a criminal offence (e.g. deception offences in England and Wales.) So, what to do? A short gap (up to a few months, say) is unlikely to be much of a problem, but as the gaps get bigger, so does the potential for someone reading the CV to wonder what is being hidden. What I would do is to leave the gap but have a good answer for if/when someone asks about it. It is probably worth getting advice from someone who is familiar with your situation or who you feel able to discuss it with in more detail, such as a doctor/probation officer/(whoever, as appropriate for the reason for the gap in your CV,) as they will undoubtedly have been asked for advice by others before now. -- AJR | Talk 01:50, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Just leave the gap. If they ask about it, explain it. Odds are they won't read it that close to notice the gap. Write a cover letter emphasizing your strengths and talk about what you can offer. The more attention you call to the gap, the more they'll worry about it. --24.147.69.31 (talk) 02:53, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Many people take sabbaticals. Normally only one year, every 7 years. Often for a world-trip, writing a novel, investigating a specific subject, etc. You could state that you wrote a novel (and write one) in that time and are searching for an publisher (that gives you time). I would only strongly discourage from all common lies (inventing companies, degrees, fake credentials, etc)Mr.K. (talk) 04:02, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

A perfectly reasonable approach is not to list every job you've ever done, but just the ones that are relevant to what you're going for. That is, your CV is tailored for the job in question. This helps to keep it as short as possible while still giving a rounded picture of you. If you state explicitly that you're only presenting relevant parts of your background, and not bothering them with other stuff, then it's to be expected that there will be gaps here and there, about things they're not interested in. This might forestall any undesirable questions about what you were doing during the gaps in your record. No guarantees though. -- JackofOz (talk) 06:02, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

One company I wortked for went out of business. If I listed it on a CV, there would be no way to check how long I worked there or what my job title was, or what the boss thought of me. As a matter of fact, to avoid lawsuits, many large companies do not give out any evaluations of past employees, but just confirm dates of employment, job title, and perhaps pay. Just saying. This would not help if the defunct company was local and the prospective employer knew people who had worked there. It would work best if nothing spectacular was claimed, just that one had a routine job there for low pay, during the time in question. Edison (talk) 01:40, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Don't tell them you were with Vandelay Industries, eh.--Wetman (talk) 09:05, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

January 31

African languages

So, I've been wondering. If I am fluent in French, Arabic, and English, approximately what percentage of the population of Africa will I able to hold a conversation with? I know French and Arabic are spoken in parts of North Africa, and English is spoken in South Africa and in a few other countries, but I don't know how to get exact numbers. According to Languages of Africa, about 175 million Africans speak Arabic, and according to Africa, the total population is over 900 million. Wrad (talk) 00:23, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

English is widely spoken in large parts of East Africa, Wrad. In Uganda, for example, all of the main daily newspapers are published in English. I don't have any statistics for you, though. Sorry! Clio the Muse (talk) 01:20, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

It would depend on how extensive a conversation you want to have. Most African countries have English, French, Arabic (or more than one of these) as an official language, but in many of these countries, only a small, educated minority could actually conduct a conversation in one of these languages. A larger percentage might be able to sell a souvenir to a foreigner and maybe carry on a rudimentary conversation ("Where are you from?") but could not discuss their family life or local politics in any of these languages. A larger percentage still could exchange basic greetings. While the official languages are theoretically taught in school, school attendance is far from universal in many African countries, and even those who do attend school may learn from a teacher who is far from fluent. While traveling in Tanzania, I met an English teacher who struggled to communicate with me. While I walked through villages, children would trail me shouting "Good mawneen teechah!", possibly the only words they knew in English. Marco polo (talk) 01:22, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

For a French estimate: African French states: "As of 2006 an estimated 115 million African people spread across 31 francophone African countries can speak French either as a first or second language". (The source is La Francophonie dans le monde 2006-2007 published by the Organisation internationale de la Francophonie. Nathan, Paris, 2007) ---Sluzzelin talk 01:31, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

This [5] says that there are about 370 million english speakers. Therefore, we have 370 + 175 + 115 = 660 million Africans speaking these languages. Assuming there is overlap, we should probably subtract at least 150 million, so it would seem that about two-thirds speak at least one of these languages. Wrad (talk) 01:39, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

The Organisation internationale de la Francophonie has an interest in exaggerating the number of people who can speak French. The source you quoted for the number of English speakers seems to have simply added the populations of all of the countries that have English as an official language. Certainly top bureaucrats in those countries could carry on a conversation in English, but many villagers could not. Another issue that no one has mentioned is that in countries whose official language is Arabic, the majority of the population does not speak Standard or Classical Arabic (though they may have a passive understanding of the standard language). Instead, most people speak the local varieties of Arabic, which would be unintelligible to you if you learned Standard Arabic in school. I have collected the populations of all African countries from CityPopulation.de. I have then taken the literacy figures from the CIA World Factbook. For most countries, I have used the literacy figures as a proxy for the number of people conversant in the official language. This number is probably too high, since most countries exaggerate their literacy figures. However, there will be some people who are illiterate but nonetheless can speak some of the official language. For countries where English, French, or Arabic is an official language alongside a local language, such as Swahili, I have discounted the literacy figure by half based on my experience in Tanzania. Using this method, I found that, according to the most recent data, the population of Africa is 832 million. Of this population, 428 million are likely to have some ability to converse in Arabic, French, or English. This represents 51% of the continent's population. Marco polo (talk) 02:46, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. Wrad (talk) 03:40, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Marco seems to have made some good progress with your question, but for practical purposes I don't know how useful such figures are. In people's ability to speak at least one of those three major languages, French, Arabic, and English, there are, of course, real differences between African countries, and (more significantly for travellers) big differences between rural and urban areas. In my experience, in most sub-Saharan African towns you can make yourself understood in many shops, most bars, most hotels, and most garages, if you speak English and French. The norm in villages is that most people speak only a local language. Xn4 23:33, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Mystery code.

I looked up a certain type of code that was a lot like Morse Code but a little different and I was wondering if you could tell me the name of it. To say a letter you would click 1,1 for a. or 2,1 for B. I think I read that it was used in the prisons or something... I'm not sure.

If you could give me the article for this old code it would be greatly appretiated. Thank you! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.136.195.104 (talk) 03:38, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

I think all sorts of codes were used throughout the history of prisons. In Gulag: A History, Anne Applebaum describes a Russian tapping code based on an alphabet grid, similar to what you are describing. Here is a link. ---Sluzzelin talk 05:05, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

That reminds me of a joke:

A Soviet citizen is found guilty of expressing counter-revolutionary sentiment, and is sent off to the Gulag. When he gets there, he is kept in a cell with two other political prisoners. These two prisoners seem to communicate entirely by telling each other double-digit numbers, and then laughing uncontrollably. The new inmate is completely confused, he doesn't know what's going on between these two, but as he's still a newbie, he just keeps himself to himself. Eventually, his curiosity gets the better of him and he asks a fellow inmate what his two cellmates are doing, his fellow inmate tells him that these two have set up a system where they have memorised one hundred political jokes, and assigned each joke a double-digit number, then, once one tells the other a certain number, the other will remember the joke which it corresponds to, and will laugh accordingly. The newbie feels satisfied having finally learnt this secret, so he goes back to his cell that night and waits for his cellmates to start telling their jokes. Eventually, he builds up the courage and interupts his cellmates and shouts, "46!" His two cellmates just sit there nonreactively. So he tries again, "19!" Again, nothing. "84? 51? 06?" And still, the two cellmates don't react. He voices his confusion, "I don't understand, I was told how your system works, but still you don't laugh! What's going on?" One of his cellmates looks him the eye and tells him, "It's just the way you tell them..." Ninebucks (talk) 21:26, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Ah, here we go: Tap Code. ---Sluzzelin talk 05:10, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Wasn't that what Larry Craig was doing?  :) 04:02, 1 February 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Corvus cornix (talk • contribs)

Horse Racing and Women's Hats?

I want to know the history behind the huge and garish hats that are worn at horse races around the world. It is a tradition for women at the Kentucky Derby to the Dubai World Cup to wear hats. What is the reason behind it and when did it start? Can you recommend any website or reference where I could find further information?

Tbwebber (talk) 12:40, 31 January 2008 (UTC)Tbwebber

The reason surely is just 'one up manship', and maybe it started at the first meet at the Royal Ascot horse races, the ladies trying to compete with the Queen!--Johnluckie (talk) 14:04, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes, it started at Ascot. Read the article. Oda Mari (talk) 14:27, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

It's interesting that the article states that the women should not wear anything that bares the shoulders, yet one of the women in the provided picture only has spaghetti straps over her shoulders. Also, the text says that men must wear top hats, yet neither one of the men in the photo are wearing any type of hat at all. Dismas|^(talk) 14:31, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

The moustached gentleman is carrying a top hat in his right hand though. It looks like the picture was taken outside the grounds. ---Sluzzelin talk 20:12, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

The woman in the spaghetti straps seems to have stuck flowers into a spare tire and put it on her head. —Angr ^{If you've written a quality article...} 21:23, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Hats having for decades been replaced by bonnets, came back into fashion in the 1860s in Britain and France: see 1860s in fashion. Millinery was a luxury, and so a modish hat was a symbol of class status. Ladies' hats got larger and larger in the later C19. Gentlemen did not go hatless in the C19: only boys went out without a hat. At a stylish afternoon wedding today, there will be no lady present without a hat. --Wetman (talk) 09:00, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Finding legislative bills on the net

I've been trying to find information related to Vermont House bill 613 but haven't been able to come up with anything. I was also looking up Senate bill 316 (yes, they are coincidentally similar) and was able to find http://www.leg.state.vt.us/database/status/summary.cfm?Session=2008&Bill=S.0316 that link which gives a few details of the bill and a link to the full text. I'm looking for something similar but for HB 613. Anyone know where I can look or what keywords I'm missing from Google searches that would yield better results? Dismas|^(talk) 13:30, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

It's at http://www.leg.state.vt.us/docs/legdoc.cfm?URL=/docs/2008/bills/intro/H-613.HTM (full list of house bills at http://www.leg.state.vt.us/docs/BILLS.CFM or by using the links at http://www.leg.state.vt.us/docs/docs2.cfm ) Foxhill (talk) 14:08, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

That's the ticket! Thanks! Dismas|^(talk) 14:20, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Commercial Underwriter

Could anyone explain briefly what this role entails?

Thank you —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.24.64.67 (talk) 15:33, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

After putting it through google... I believe a commercial underwriter is someone who works for an insurance company who goes round places detecting risk assessments etc. "The role is a full underwriting role and will involve making day to day decisions regarding the acceptance and rating of commercial risks" [6]. Scarian^{Call me Pat} 15:53, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

A commercial underwriter deals specifically with commercial insurance policies, which insure businesses against liability claims or damage to their property. The underwriter's job is to assess the risks faced by the insured business and to determine the appropriate premium that the insurer should charge to cover that risk and make a profit. Marco polo (talk) 21:10, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

deciding my major

Hi guys...I am a 22 year old female... i think i am a little old for not having finished my major already but oh well...

i was studying psychology....but I also like literature, art, music,philosophy,music and photography.... I don't know what is my true vocation though.... does anyone have any idea on how i can find out? or know of any field where i acn apply more than one of those fields?

thank u! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.169.183.216 (talk) 22:36, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

We at the reference desk can't really tell you what you want to do, of course, but I don't think that's what you're asking. Your first step is probably to make an appointment with ththe guidance or career counselour at your university. They should have lots of experience with helping people make decisions with regards to careers. You seem to be interested in subjects based mostly in Humanities. There may be a counselor specifically for humanities students who can direct you towards courses that will attract your interest.

I would also suggest looking out for a careers fair nearby. There will be a number of employers there who can tell you about opportunities. Moreover, with such diverse interests, if you are a keen student you might find a career in academia very interesting. Is there a field or area which combines your interests which you would like to research?

Perhaps also investigate the idea of being a professional researcher for government departments or media. They provide concise and detailed reports for senators, reporters, etc. on the topic du jour and enable them to make informed decisions or programs. Steewi (talk) 23:59, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Being a professional researcher seems quite attractive for people with multiple interests like you. It is also better to Decide what you want to do professionally before you choose a major. 217.168.1.63 (talk) 02:08, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

If you're leaning more towards the liberal arts end of the spectrum how about becoming a Conceptual artist? Of course you may end up in academia anyway if you do that though. --S.dedalus (talk) 02:31, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Even counting those friends who trained for specific professions (law, medecine, engineering), a quick count of the first 30 people in my age group (50 - 70) in my contact list shows 21 of them are (or were at retirement) no longer doing either what they trained for or what they set out to do when they left university. Eleven of them have had more than 2 completely different professional careers. I would no longer worry too much about what I studied in university in terms of what careers it prepared me for. So much will change over your working life that you will be constantly training on-the-go. ៛ Bielle (talk) 04:27, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

I will give you the same advice as I gave my sons, and wish that somebody had given me. You will need to work hard at your major to get the best from it, and the best way to do that is to choose something that rewards you by being really interesting to you. As Bielle says, many, many people end up working in some other field from the one they first studied. What do you really enjoy reading, writing and thinking about? What is it that you choose to find out more about in your free time? In this case you should follow your heart! SaundersW (talk) 09:36, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps you would enjoy being an essayist, which is not easy if you want to be good at it (and also not easy to make a living on even if you are good), but would allow you to escape the increasingly narrow confines of specialized professions, being an occupation in which you can combine all your interests and more. But is it something you can imagine doing for the rest of your life and enjoying it?  --Lambiam 11:49, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Democracy

If the election of representatives by a group of people, and the making of decisions by the people themselves are both examples of democracy, is one system "more democratic" than the other or is it simply "democracy" versus "not democracy". ----Seans Potato Business 22:36, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Have a scan at Democracy. Each electoral methods has pros and cons, they often 'favour' one outcome over another. Be it stronger political powers, weaker political powers, more stability, a framework to foster change or otherwise. Anybody who suggests that one is 'more free' than the other is generally looking to win political points in favour of their preferred system. Each of these democratic-election systems are questions of organisation and the concentration of power. SMPS (single member plurality system), a method favoured in many countries including the UK, is regularly attack by those in favour of PR (proportional representation) but it can be argued that each as equally as democratic. ny156uk (talk) 22:57, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

(after edit conflict) The articles you might be interested in reading are representative democracy and direct democracy. Having cast my vote in both types of system, I could argue either way (like the article on direct democracy does), but I won't. Ideally, the people are the sovereign in both cases and if the demos has the constitutional option of changing their system from one to the other, then neither is "more" democratic than the other. ---Sluzzelin talk 23:00, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

You could rephrase your question to "what's more democratic: direct or representative democracy". Both are more democratic in another way, and it depends on the specific implementation of direct or representative democracy. If a representative democracy includes a mechanism like coalition forming, it will more closely resemble a consensus democracy (the ideal democracy?) than a simple majority direct democracy would. In the latter, 49% of the population could in theory disagree with the policy that has been voted upon by 51%, while it is likely the compromise reached during coalition forming would reflect a broader base. On the other hand, a direct democracy usually includes more voting. User:Krator (t c) 13:30, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

If George Orwell were still with us he could still write - "The words democracy, socialism, freedom, patriotic, realistic, justice have each of them several different meanings which cannot be reconciled with one another. In the case of a word like democracy, not only is there no agreed definition, but the attempt to make one is resisted from all sides. It is almost universally felt that when we call a country democratic we are praising it: consequently the defenders of every kind of regime claim that it is a democracy, and fear that they might have to stop using that word if it were tied down to any one meaning." If you take the word 'democracy' literally, 'rule by the people', then direct democracy can claim to be nearer to the literal meaning. But in a world of nation states, some form of representative democracy is needed, with the rulers being at least answerable to the ruled. The world still has plenty of spurious 'democracy' in it, and perhaps the most spurious forms are those in which the rulers are only theoretically answerable to the ruled and can't in practice be removed by them: for instance, when in a one-party state most or all candidates are sure to win the elections they stand in because there are no other candidates, or else when elections are rigged in various ways. Xn4 22:57, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Imperialism

Today, What did the present European nations and non-European nations gain the benefit from the Imperialism? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.14.119.154 (talk) 23:52, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

They got to take other people's stuff, and still have some of it. --Sean 01:36, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

It is difficult to read this as anything but an essay question for a grammar school world history class. This is Wikipedia - an encyclopedia. Just pick a few countries that embarked on Imperialistic goals, such as England, France, Spain, and the United States. Compare the strength and stability of their economy, governments, health care, and education systems with a few that were colonized, take your pick from just about all of Africa, the Middle East, and southeast Asia. -- kainaw™ 01:39, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

The question you give us strikes me as loaded by the word Imperialism, which generally carries political baggage with it. A more neutral word might be colonialism. You could try pondering on this remark of Benjamin Disraeli's - "Colonies do not cease to be colonies because they are independent." The question you give us is limited in its scope. As discussed here before, the motivations of colonialism were complicated and were as much individual motivations (trading profits, religious freedom , new land to farm, etc.) as they were national ones. Nations often fought over the richest colonies, once they existed, and in most cases the national motivations were financial ones, though sometimes they were about imperial policy (such as the need of the British Empire to secure the sea lanes to India). Also, coming back to the limitations of the question, you can't really consider the positive outcomes of colonialism (or, if you insist, imperialism) without considering the negative ones at the same time. Xn4 22:15, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

since when was the US an imperialistic country in the same way britain, france, spain and most of europe was? —Preceding unsigned comment added by The world tour (talk • contribs) 18:11, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

I imagine US Imperialism could be broken down into its Foreign Policy, and its early annexation of American Indian lands in the West. I'm no expert on the matter however. 90.207.43.98 (talk) 11:07, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

February 1

Somali-canadians in toronto

In the former City of York, Toronto, I know notice there are some Somalis living there when I used to lie there from 1997 through 2004. I heard that Kipling CI and Regent Park area has the large amount of Somali-Canadians in Toronto. Is this mean that Somalis are everywhere in Toronto or just concentrated in one specific area? So, which area has the most? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.14.119.154 (talk) 00:28, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Have you been paying attention to the answers everyone has been giving you every time you ask these questions? Also, obviously not every single Somali, or anyone else, lives in the same place. There is no Somali ghetto in Toronto. Adam Bishop (talk) 01:42, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Yes, but I ask about the name of the neighborhood in Toronto. please answer my question.

Regions of Somalia

in your article regions of Somalia, you said there are 18 but you added one and that is Saaxil. Why is that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.14.119.154 (talk) 00:49, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

The aricle on Somalia lists the 18 regions as they existed prior to the Somali Civil War. The article on Regions of Somalia features more than 18 regions, listed separately according to the new quasi-independent states on the territory of Somalia. Apparently, Saaxil used to be part of Woqooyi Galbeed, the rest of which is now called Maroodi Jeex, all part of Somaliland. ---Sluzzelin talk 01:01, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

We could do with getting the stories straight at Somalia#Administrative divisions (lists 18, notes there are now 27, Districts of Somalia (lists 19) and Regions of Somalia (lists 27). More than I can face doing tonight. Messages left on the appropriate talk pages. --Tagishsimon (talk) 01:38, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Ah, you spotted it! I missed Districts of Somalia, which is what 74.14.119.154 must have been referring to, and which is where the main confusion lay. I now removed Saaxil from that article's list. The list should either show the 18 regions as they existed de iure in Somalia before the civil war, or the 27 regions as they exist de facto in the quasi-independent states. I'm sure one could argue both ways, but certainly not for a mix of the two. ---Sluzzelin talk 01:57, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Tamil Tigers

I have read through the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam article. A question the page does not seem to address is why exactly the Tamil Tigers are so different from most other revolutionary groups. They seem to be extremely well organized, with warships (Sea Tigers), fighter aircraft (Air Tigers), intelligence units, political/diplomatic personnel, and of course the Black Tigers. They also occupy quite a bit of territory, have a sophisticated administrative system. I guess my questions are:

Where do they get their money and weapons? Why are they so well organized? And why do they engage in terrorism when their goal seems to be to establish a Tamil homeland? Thanks, --S.dedalus (talk) 02:25, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Part of the first and second questions are answered in the article, e.g. at #Criminal activities (ranging from legitimate fund raising to extortion & piracy) and #Organization and activities (they want to be a government and are by now a de facto government with many of the normal functions of a de jure government.) Presumably they terrorise (or liberate) to convince the Sri Lankan government to accede to their demands. --Tagishsimon (talk) 03:25, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Oops. . . Sorry, I missed the part about their funding. Thanks, it sounds sort of like the methods Muslim terrorist groups use. As for the second, I understand HOW the tigers are currently organized, but I don’t understand how they got that way or why they are so much more sophisticated in that respect than any other revolutionary group in the world. The fact that the Tigers want to be a legitimate government only adds to my confusion about why they would use terrorism. I would think that being considered a terrorist group by most of the western nations would limit the Tigers’ bargaining power. --S.dedalus (talk) 03:56, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Erm, they don't have "warships and fighter aircraft". The Sea Tigers have fiberglass fishing boats and small cargo ships. The Air Tigers have a couple of four-place light aircraft. FiggyBee (talk) 04:47, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Fishing boats? Those must be big fish they're going after! --S.dedalus (talk) 05:12, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

The big boat in that video belongs to the Sri Lankan Navy, not the Tigers... FiggyBee (talk) 08:27, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

On a more serious note, who sells the Tigers their “light aircraft” and how have they been able to resist the Military of Sri Lanka when their location is clearly know. (Most revolutions use guerilla warfare, not territorial expansions don’t they?) --S.dedalus (talk) 05:18, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Why "light aircraft" in inverted commas? The only aircraft they're known to have is the Zlin Z-143 - does this look like a fighter jet to you? I'm not disputing that the Tigers are a formidable force, I'm just saying that characterising their equipment as "warships and fighter aircraft" is more than a little inaccurate. FiggyBee (talk) 08:31, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

I just didn’t have enough knowledge of the subject yet to judge my self, so I was quoting you. Perhaps the BBC has biased my perspective on the conflict slightly. Sorry if I seemed to implied that I doubted your statement. Wow, I’m surprised those little planes can carry any bombs at all. Then again I know nothing at all about aviation. . . --S.dedalus (talk) 20:39, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

For weapons procurement, probably a bit dated for the subject, (from Rotberg, R.I. (1999) Creating Peace in Sri Lanka. Cambridge:Brookings Institution.) LTTE procurement began with smugglers from the small fishing port of Velvettiturai (commonly known as VVT) across the Palk Strait and with the assistance of the Indian intelligence service and the Tamil Nadu state. The operation expanded dramatically after 1983 and during the next few years included purchase of small ocean going freighters (a fleet of five or six in 1999) and domestic production of landmines, grenades, and mortars.

Singapore became a major center for dual-use equipment: radios, computers, electronics, night-vision binoculars, outboard motors and diving equipment. Front companies were established in Dhaka, Chittagong, Rangoon, and Kuala Lumpur for purchasing equipment without an obvious dual-use.

The Khmer Rouge sold many weapons to the LTTE across the Cambodian border and via Trang in Thailand. Contacts were established with the Burmese military, and by 1992 a semi-permanent transshipment point had been established near the town of Twantay south of Rangoon. Cambodia also became a major supplier, in 1995 two Avro 748s were brought down, probably by SA-7 missiles from Cambodia.

The Sri Lankan armed forces do not necessarily have easy access to weapons, at times governments have been reluctant to provide arms which would be used for the counter-insurgency, while the LTTE has had access to illegal arms markets in Hong Kong, Singapore, Lebanon, Cyprus, Ukraine, Bulgaria, Slovakia, and Kazakhstan; from war zones such as the former Yugoslavia, Cambodia, Afghanistan, and Mozambique; and possibly from organized crime groups in Russia, Lithuania, and Bulgaria.—eric 08:02, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Paul Collier in "Ethnic Civil Wars: Securing the Post-Conflict Peace", 2007, Harvard International Review [7], claims that in a typical year the LTTE spends an amount equal to 28 percent of the GDP of that portion of Sri Lanka it seeks to control.—eric 08:24, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. That’s extremely helpful and interesting. So if I understand you correctly you’re saying that the Indian intelligence service helped arm the Tamil Tigers? Why would they do that? From the Tamil nationalism article it says that the nationalists aim to “establish traditional Tamil homelands in parts of India and Sri Lanka.” Presumably then the Tigers plan to attack India if they are ever successful in Sri Lanka. --S.dedalus (talk) 21:38, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Jazz tune

What's the title of this tune (fast, swung): d g g a d g, d g g a d g, d g g a d g g a d g g a d g, d g g a d g C, d g g a d g C#... ? —Keenan Pepper 03:52, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

"Now's the Time" by Charlie Parker. It's a twelve-bar blues. ---Sluzzelin talk 04:10, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Originally it's in F, by the way (c f f g c f, ...), just like Bird's other famous blues standard "Billie's Bounce". (added later: I just realized your notation is probably for a transposing instrument tuned in B-flat. (tenor saxophone, trumpet etc.) ---Sluzzelin talk 04:20, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Read this too. Oda Mari (talk) 08:44, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

But note that "The Hucklebuck" riff and "Now's the time" are only identical for the first four bars. The fifth bar in Keenan Pepper's version, and especially the sixth bar with its characteristic diminished seventh chord (#IVo7, C# being that chord's root here in Keenan's notation) are unique to "Now's the Time". ---Sluzzelin talk 08:57, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

I wrote it in G simply because I don't have absolute pitch and had no idea what key it was in. =) Thanks, everyone! —Keenan Pepper 13:13, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Austro-Hungarian interests at the Treaty of Versailles

Hello. I am a high school student, and I have to represent the interests of Austria-Hungary in a class simulation of the Versailles Conference in 1919. I've exhausted several of our library's books, and a basic internet search only provided the same information. Unfortunately, not a lot of Versailles resources give an in-depth view into Austria's position during the conference.

During my research, I came to the following conclusion, and here are my questions:

• Austria-Hungary was going to separate into Austria, Hungary, and Czechoslovakia. At the time of the conference, did the Austrian delegate support such a separation, or was that the Allies' idea?
  • Who was the Austro-Hungarian delegate?
  • Was there any other overseas or European territory belonging to Austria-Hungary that was at risk of being stripped from the empire? Were the Austro-Hungarians willing to give up this land, or did they object to such proposals during the conference?
• In the early 1900's, the Austrian economy depended on railways. Were there any notable Austro-Hungarian imports or exports in 1919? How was the Austrian economy doing post-WWI? Did it fall or rise? Did Austria or its allies have any economic interests during the conference? Did any of the other participants in the conference have trading interests with Austria-Hungary?
  • I'm asking this question because during the conference, I might have to say something along the lines of... "Hi there, Italy! I would be willing to let you take 20% of our iron if you don't take Tyrol."
  • Did Austria-Hungary heavily participate in trading military equipment? How so?
• Austria-Hungary was interested in a union with Germany? Did the Germans have the same feelings about this?
• Finally, Austria-Hungary lost about 1,200,000 soldiers. Did that consist of a large amount of their military? If Austria-Hungary were to go back to war, would she have enought manpower to survive?

A lot of help would be appreciated.--Dem393 (talk) 04:29, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

If you really can't help me right now, is there a good website that I could use?--Dem393 (talk) 04:32, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

By the time of the Versailles Conference, Austria-Hungary no longer existed. That's because all the non-German parts had seceded, the emperor had abdicated, and the "Republic of German-Austria" had been declared in Vienna. But the Allies still considered Austria and Hungary to be bad guys, so they were not invited to the conference. The best way for you to simulate Austria during 1919 is to not take part in the simulation but to write angry letters to the person playing America reminding him or her about the promises of self-determination in the Fourteen Points. (Which were being denied to the German-speaking populations outside of Austria.) Your local public library should have a copy of the very readable book Paris 1919, which includes a chapter about Austria and Versailles. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 04:40, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for clearing those stuff up. I'll look for Paris 1919, but I need to clarify the fact that I must actually speak during the conference. My history teacher knows that Austria and Hungary didn't participate in the conference, but he's letting the defeated countries speak anyway. In addition, if Austria-Hungary didn't exist in 1919, then I guess we're going to have to pretend otherwise, because that's how were doing the simulation. --Dem393 (talk) 04:50, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

That's kind of a tough assignment -- speaking on behalf of something that no longer existed! It would make far more sense for your teacher to ask you to speak on behalf of Austria and Hungary rather than as Austria-Hungary. As noted above, Austria's arguments in 1919 were based on the fact that Austria-Hungary had disbanded. If Austria-Hungary hadn't fallen apart in before the Versailles Conference, the conference would have taken on a completely different character. But it's hard to imagine a situation in which the Allies could have won WWI as decisively as they did without Austria-Hungary collapsing. The defeat of the Austro-Hungarian armies set off the independence movements in the Slavic parts of the empire that had been bubbling for decades beforehand. Perhaps if the Austrians had been able to hold on a bit longer in Italy, the dismemberment of the empire could have been put off until after the armistice. But I don't think your teacher is planning an exercise in alternate history. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 05:33, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

I should say you have been given a crazy task. The Paris Peace Conference began on 18 January 1919, and a critical point about it is that the Central Powers were not invited to attend. The Kingdom of Serbia (one of the victorious Allies), was represented by the new State of Slovenes, Croats and Serbs, which included both Serbia and large parts of the collapsed Austria-Hungary. By January 1919, if the Austrians and the Hungarians had been invited to attend (which just wasn't going to happen, as this wasn't an all-inclusive conference of the kind your teacher may want to enact), then they would have been invited separately - that is, both German Austria and the Hungarian Democratic Republic (which was itself in the process of collapse). You could perhaps offer to represent one or the other of those, but it would have been quite impossible for a single individual to represent the different interests of both. It would be completely mad for your teacher to ask this Conference to imagine that in January 1919 Austria and Hungary were still united (under the dual monarchy? under a republic?) Once you start throwing the facts of the international situation into the bin, you are left with a meaningless exercise. Xn4 00:10, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

If that is the case, then maybe I should revise my question. What political, military, and economic interests did Austria have during the Versailles conference?--Dem393 (talk) 00:35, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

My goodness, Dem393, what a task you have been set! I wonder just how well acquainted your teacher is with the history of Europe at the end of the First World War, particularly the history, and the structure, of the old Austro-Hungarian Empire? I'll come on to your specific questions in a moment, but first let me sketch some of the background details.

What makes your task particularly difficult is that Austria-Hungary, unlike Germany, was not really a nation state at all, but an historical anachronism; an accumulation of territory, held together solely by the allegiance owed to the Habsburg crown. For years before the war the Empire had been struggling against the centrifugal forces of nationalism, particularly Slav nationalism. Defeat in the war shattered the illusion, and the whole structure simply imploded. It had already been made clear in the Fourteen Points that the Allies and Associated Powers were committed to autonomy in the Habsburg lands. But when, in October 1918, the Austro-Hungarian foreign minister asked for an armistice on the basis of the Fourteen Points, he was told by Robert Lansing, the American Secretary of State, that autonomy was no longer enough, that the western powers were now committed to the independence of the Slav nations. In confirmation of this the Czechoslovak Provisional Government was admitted to the Allied camp on 14 October.

That was it; that was the end of Austria-Hungary, killed off even before the Paris Peace Conference. Czechoslovakia declared its independence at the end of October, about the same time as a new State of Slovenes, Croats and Serbs came into being. Hungary and Austria separated, as another new state, that of German Austria came into being, a recognition of political reality. All that remained for the peace makers was to give retrospective justification to a fait-accompli. The Empire was dead beyond recall. Now for your questions.

• As has already been pointed out, none of the Central Powers, including the new states of Austria and Hungary, participated in the Paris Peace talks (Please note that this process should not be confused with the Treaty of Versailles, which concerned Germany alone.) All of the subsequent treaties, Saint Germain with Austria and Trianon with Hungary, were essentially 'diktats', as the Germans argued ad nauseum in the years to follow. In other words, there was no process of negotiation; it was a case of take it or take it.

• There were separate Austrian and Hungarian delegations in Paris. The Austrians were headed by Karl Renner, the Chancellor of the Republic, and by Franz Klein, an expert in jurisprudence. The Hungarian delegation was headed by Count Albert Appony, who later was to write "These days were very difficult for us. Every opportunity to express our arguments was refused. Even during private conversations it was the same, when we would have liked to declare our truth and we were fenced by a kind of cordon not to say anything." A diktat, as I have said.

• The Empire had no overseas territories. The only outstanding issue was over the precise borders of the new states. Disputes between Austria and Czechoslovakia over parts of Carinthia were later settled by plebiscite. A dispute between Austria and Hungary over Burgenland was settled in the former’s favour in the Saint Germain Treaty. Hungary tried to preserve some of its territorial integrity by declaring a Soviet Republic and appealing to Russia for aid, but was overrun by the Romanian army. Large parts of the country, including many Hungarian-speaking areas were subsequently annexed by Romania and its allies in the Little Entente.

• Both the Austrian and Hungarian economies had been devastated by the war. Neither country had any leverage in this area. Defeat was followed by further disruption, starvation and astronomical inflation. Even if the Austrians had any bargaining power it was unlikely that Italy would have been willing to trade territory for economic concessions. As it was, Italy was left deeply aggrieved that it did not get all of the gains it had expected. Disappointment at the outcome of the war was one of the factors that led to the rise of Fascism.

• Although Austria-Hungary had its own arms industry, it became increasingly dependent on Germany for all sorts of supplies, and other forms of military aid.

• Austria was interested in Anschluss-union with Germany- hence the deliberate choice of German Austria as the name for the new state. This was specifically forbidden by the Treaty of Saint Germain (and the Treaty of Versailles), and the name of the state was changed to the Austrian Republic. This flew in the face of the principle of self-determination granted to others by the Fourteen Points, but the peace process was always an unhappy marriage between impossible ideals and hard facts. France was never going to allow the emergence of a new Germany, even stronger than it had been in 1914. Hungary, of course, was not interested in any form of union with Germany.

• Neither Austria nor Hungary was in a position to go back to full-scale war. As I have said, Hungary was overrun in 1919 by Romanian troops.

Well, that's it! Sorry, I know it does not make your task any easier. You are effectively swimming against the tides of history. You could, I suppose, argue counter-factually, but you would have to suspend all disbelief, to assume that there were circumstances in which the polyglot Empire could have held together.

Was it a loss? Yes, I think it was. The Empire in many ways acted as a force for stability in central Europe, and what was to come was to be in many ways far worse. The collapse of the Empire did not even solve the nationality problem. All of the successor states had control over large minorities, to whom even the most basic rights were often denied. Anyway, the very best of luck! Clio the Muse (talk) 00:41, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Clio, as usual, is thorough, insightful, and interesting. However, she made a small slip on the matter of a territorial dispute over parts of Carinthia. She wrote that the dispute was between Austria and Czechoslovakia. This was of course a dispute between Austria and Yugoslavia (then known as the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats, and Slovenes), as I'm sure Clio knows. I suspect that she remembers the Slovaks and the Slovenes in the same part of her brain, as do I. Marco polo (talk) 01:37, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Indeed! Thanks, Marco. Clio the Muse (talk) 01:54, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Thank you so much, Clio the Muse!!!!! Although several of the things that I have been assigned no longer have any relevance to the Paris Peace Conference, I feel that I have enough information to BS my way through a theoretical speech on behalf of the non-existent Empire of Austria-Hungary. I do have one unanswered question though: I know that Austria was in favor of this, but did Germany itself have any interest in a union with Austria (the Anschluss)? In fact, was there any economic reason why either country would want a union with each other?--Dem393 (talk) 04:41, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

You are very welcome, Dem. The Anschluss issue was certainly to become an important patriotic test in Germany, though in the immediate aftermath of the war it did not appear to command a high priority, as most people had more pressing concerns. While I cannot prove this one way or the other, I suspect the issue may have been of greater interest to those living in southern Germany, particularly Bavaria, than in the rest of the country. The Austrian preoccupation with the matter is more understandable, for two reasons. First, there were many who still felt aggrieved by Austria's exclusion from the Reich in 1866, when Bismarck opted for a Kleindeutschland solution to the question of German unity. Second, not only had Austria been crippled economically by the war but it seemed likely that the rump state that emerged in 1918-19 would be unable to survive as a viable and independent force. The only way that it would be able to count politically and economically, the only way to overcome its immediate difficulties, was by union with Germany. Austrians, it might be said, still had to learn how to be Austrians, a lesson only fully absorbed after the advent of a former countryman. Clio the Muse (talk) 00:01, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Sorry -- one aside. One thing you should definitely add in your speech is the Austrians' belief that under the Fourteen Points' call for ethnic self-determination, the German-speaking speaking parts of the Czech lands (see the map at German Austria) should have been able to join the country. Instead, the Czechs successfully argued that the historical boundaries of Bohemia and Moravia should remain intact, even as the historical boundaries of Hungary were being ignored to form the Slovak part of Czechoslovakia. The Germans of Czechoslovakia were treated quite well, but nonetheless the vast majority of them in the 1930s supported the Nazis and helped dismember that country. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:44, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

The unfortunate thing for the Sudeten Germans was that for Czechoslovakia to be a truly viable state, their territories had to be included. If the Sudeten territories hadn't been included in Czechoslovakia, then Czechoslovakia would have had completely indefensible borders (with the German and/or Austrian armies in the mountains looking down at the Czechs in the valleys) and its economic base would have been greatly impaired. AnonMoos (talk) 08:16, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

JC-1 H1 History: Bizonia?

It's me again! In today's History lecture, we learnt about the causes of the Cold War. One of them was that the USA and USSR disagreed on what happen to Germany after World War II. The USA wanted economic stability in Germany while the USSR wanted reperations.

There is this sentence in my lecture notes: "In January 1947 Britain and the USA combined their zones into the single economic unit Bizonia". This is confusing and contradicts what I learnt about the Cold War in secondary school. My secondary school History textbook says that France also had one quarter of Germany and later Britain, France and the USA combined their three zones into West Germany.

Did France have a part of Bizonia? If not, what happened to the quarter of Germany belonging to France? Or is my secondary school textbook wrong?

By the way, last week, I asked some questions about the flow concept and "ceteris paribus" in Economics. Why I can't find my questions and the answer, but I could find the answer to my questions about my Literature texts and make more comments? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.21.155.90 (talk) 05:40, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

See Bizonia. It was indeed formed from two zones to start with, and then the French joined in to make Trizonia, which became West Germany.

By the way, the zones were not really "quarters". The UK, US, and USSR originally agreed to divide Germany into three zones of similar size, and when the French persuaded the UK and US to let them have a zone too, the USSR did not agree. So the Soviets kept their original assigned zone and it was the biggest of the four, about 1/3 of the country. Same thing with the zones of Berlin, and I presume also the zones of Austria and of Vienna. See Allied Occupation Zones in Germany.

--Anonymous, 07:58 UTC, February 1, 2008.

As far as the lost questions are concerned ... I can't find them (quickly), but advise that if you get yourself an account, you'll find it much more easy to track your contributions, than will be the case if you continue to post without logging in. The contributions associated with your current IP address do not seem to feature the Ceteris paribus question. --Tagishsimon (talk) 14:55, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, Anonymous! Now I understand. Tagishsimon, I think my IP keeps changing. Maybe I will get an account. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.21.155.90 (talk) 04:51, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

By the way, what happened to the French zone after Bizonia was formed but before it joined Bizonia to form Trizonia? Or was the French zone only formed after Bizonia? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.21.155.90 (talk) 02:16, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

No, the French zone preceded Bizonia and continued for a time after it was formed, before merging into Trizona, subsequently the Federal Republic of Germany. The French had been just as anxious to exploit their zone economically as the Russians. They also had political fears over German unity. You should read Giles MacDonogh's After the Reich: From the Liberation of Vienna to the Berlin Airlift, which covers this whole area admirably. It may be published under a different title in North America. Clio the Muse (talk) 00:38, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Pakistan

What are the historical roots to the present state of instability in Pakistan? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.129.82.127 (talk) 09:52, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Pick them up at History of Pakistan; then you'll be able to ask a more focused, answerable question.--Wetman (talk) 10:47, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

For the "present" instability, it would be probably best to look at the article on the 1999 Pakistani coup d'état in which Pervez Musharraf took over control of Pakistan. -- Saukkomies 15:58, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

You might also have a look at the links between the Inter-Services Intelligence and the Taliban. Marco polo (talk) 21:02, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

It's a combination, really, of history, geography, ethnicity and politics. In essence, Pakistan, or what was to become Pakistan, was always a frontier, set astride the Khyber Pass, through which generations of invaders entered into the plains of India. Because of its strategic location the local people developed a strong martial tradition. During the days of the British Raj the bulk of the Imperial forces were recruited in the Punjab and adjacent territories. Unfortunately, this militant tradition went hand-in-hand with an accompanying weakness in the forms of civil society, more highly developed elsewhere in India.

The Partition of India in 1947, with the emergence of the new state of Pakistan, had the effect of exaggerating still further the relative imbalance between the civil and the military. Also, there was the political legacy of the British creation of a separate Muslim electorate during the Raj, which served to create a 'bloc' mentality, preventing the emergence of the kinds of political pluralism that form such an essential part of stable democracies elsewhere. Moreover, though mostly Sunni, Pakistan has a large Shia minority, with persecution-on the increase in recent years-adding to the overall instability of the country.

Partition also led to ongoing rivalry with India, though Pakistan has only a fraction of the resources and the population of its neighbour. Military expenditure has been at the expense of other areas of the economy, and has added to the position and, more important, the political influence of the army. It might be argued that the army has become a state in itself, with its own unique priorities, a factor that contributed to the coups in 1958, 1969, 1977 and 1999.

High military expenditure also impacted on other areas of civil society, particularly in education, where low levels of government investment allowed religious schools to fill the gap in provision, some with a highly militant approach to Islam, further undermining the forces of secularism.

There are also ethnic problems bequeathed by Pakistan's position under the Raj, when the British, in fear of Russian expansion, bolstered the north-west frontier by expanding into Pashtun territory. Pashtun separatism has become a major cause of concern for the government, as have Afghan and Taliban Islamists in the north. Clio the Muse (talk) 01:53, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Whiplash!

I was pouring cereal out of my bag of museli that I bought at Albert Heijn when I noticed a piece of light blue polythene, in amongst the mixture! Once my grandmother found a piece of a rubber glove in her tin of dog-food, sent it in was received a "prize"! I'm not asking for legal advice, 'cause I'm not considering litigation or anything, but could I get a money-off coupon to make up for my mental anguish? ----Seans Potato Business 13:40, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Go for it! My uncle once got a crate of jam after eating half a wasp that was in one jar. DuncanHill (talk) 13:42, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

You've got nothing to lose (apart from postage) I once found an empty tea bag in a box of fifty, I sent it back to the company with a humerous poem and they sent me a new box of a hundred, whether it was for the poem or the empty bag I never knew (nor cared!) Richard Avery (talk) 16:00, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure what country you're writing from, but if the manufacturer in question has a toll-free telephone number for your country, just give them a ring and describe what happened; they'll almost certainly send you coupons worth one or two times what the product originally cost you, merely as a good-will gesture. Just be polite and start the call with something akin to "I like your product and buy it often, but..."

Atlant (talk) 16:46, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

What generous companies you discovered! We once found a sharp metal hook baked into a loaf of bread. Rang the (very notable) company, who declared on the phone that it was impossible (obviously we dreamt the large peice of metal skewering several slices of bread, or perhaps put it there ourselves and then forgot?). Eventually, a representative came to our house to collect the loaf. "oh, you're right" he said. And walked off with the loaf under his arm. Not even a replacement (if I remember correctly). sigh. Gwinva (talk) 19:51, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Albert Heijn's return policy is awesome. You'll probably get a new bag if you want to, or get your money back. You might also write to the "Consumentenbond". User:Krator (t c) 21:34, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Complained to my bank about their tardiness in replying to an earlier letter, and got a massive "Christmas' type hamper, three bottles wine, tins of food etc. as an apology. Now looking for something else to complain about!--Johnluckie (talk) 07:46, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

When I complained to McVitie's concerning some rather battered Jaffa Cakes I'd bought, they sent me £3 worth of vouchers. Didn't even cost me postage, as I emailed them. But it does seem to be a goodwill thing, so being pleasant about it can help. Skittle (talk) 17:54, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Although complaining loudly and strongly can get you a lot of places, a justified and polite complaint, properly structured will usually get a good reply. If they don't, then loudly and strongly is well justified. Steewi (talk) 00:50, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

The gift-loan

Someone - I think an American president or other famous figure - once provided an acquaintance with money, and asked that instead of repaying the money he should in turn pass it on to another when able, with the same instructions. Who? Deiz talk 13:59, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Our article on the concept of "pay it forward" notes that Benjamin Franklin described it in 1784. — Lomn 15:03, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

That's the one. Nice. Deiz talk 15:13, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Do you recognize this tune?

Tune: [[Image:Tune123.MID|]]

I have this tune in my head. My most probable candidate is Franz Liszt, from which I heard this excerpt in either one of his transcriptions or paraphrases. Maybe it isn't Franz Liszt's at all... Does anyone recognize it and know where it comes from? It sounds to be in nature of a symphonic poem. --Funper (talk) 15:18, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

You may want to try Name My Tune. Bovlb (talk) 15:50, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

I don't have a microphone :( --Funper (talk) 16:16, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Try Musipedia then. (Doesn't require a microphone – you just play it on the piano-type keyboard.)--Shantavira|^{feed me} 16:57, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

I went though my playlist and I was listening to it right now, but I was unaware of the tune and I didn't recognize it! I forgot what I was looking for. But now I know what it is. Thanks for nothing. --Funper (talk) 17:14, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

You are quite welcome. --LarryMac | Talk 17:32, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

I am asking, because I want somebody to listen and maybe recognize my tune. "Try Musipedia" doesn't help me and it doesn't help others to listen to my sample. Thanks though, but a slight change to that sentence can make it constructive and helpful one. It will also leave room for others to listen to it: "I personally don't now. But try Musipedia." --Funper (talk) 17:55, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

You stated above, 'But now I know what it is'. Would you consider sharing that information with the many people who have listened to it? --NorwegianBlue ^talk 11:11, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

The tune, playing on the gypsy scale and being pathetique in charachter, is an excerpt from Franz Liszt's Hungarian Rhapsody No. 14 (S.244/14). --Funper (talk) 11:35, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Except that, with due respect to whoever played it, the tune you provided above is only a poor cousin to the actual tune in Liszt's Rhapsody. -- JackofOz (talk) 22:17, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

That is an unnecessary statement. --Funper (talk) 17:35, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

I think not. I know Liszt's music well, and I listened to the clip to see if I recognised it - I was interested in helping you out, after all. I didn't recognise it. Now that you've identified it, I can see a resemblance, and I don't doubt that whoever played it made a conscientious and genuine attempt to capture the tune of the 14th Rhapsody. But it's still sufficiently different to be unrecognisable. Apart from the rhythmic differences, your first 4 rising notes are OK but your 5th and 6th notes are descending in pitch whereas in the actual tune these 2 notes continue to ascend. Then, after you’ve descended, you jump up by a 4th, fall back a 4th, before descending again. There’s no such jump-fall pattern in the Liszt melody. It’s a simple succession of 6 rising notes followed by 5 falling notes (F, G, A, B flat, C, D, C, B flat, A twice, G twice, F twice). This wasn’t intended as a personal criticism, and I’m sorry if it came across that way, but as simple feedback. Cheers. -- JackofOz (talk) 22:39, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

astrology question for astrologers  :)

hi guys...for those of you who believe in astrology and who have some knowledge of it. (i respect both skeptics and believers). about that belief that when the moon is in a given sign,it's not wise to proceed with an action that is ruled by such sign that day for it will fail or go wrong.

for example operating the nose a day when the moon is on scorpio, the ruler of the human nose... hipocrqates had this belief.

so... what if I am planning on doing something of the importance of getting married or of some long term agreement/buisness or something like that on february the 29th...on what sign is the moon going to be? is it convenient for me to do so acording to the aspects of life that that sign rules?

and if you have enough knowledge to answer this...what day would be best to sign such an agreement in february? (again, according to the moon's position).

OR MAYBE! the moon's position only has an effect on the body and operations etc, but on aspects of life, the sun has the influence, or any other planet.

I'd so much apretiate your imput. thank u. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.169.188.146 (talk) 18:09, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

You've raised some interesting points. It seems you're asking about Electional astrology for choosing auspicious dates. About two bucks (?) will get you a printed 2008 Ephemeris for the year from a new age store for finding where the moon is in signs on any day in any month as you probably know. There's a link to moon phases at article Moon. Problem is that the answer involves who is asking it as well, so any calculation would take into account your chart details – likely based on transits to your chart so that when you look for the moon on any date, check for nice aspects to your natal chart planets to do with the nature of the event. (Example, 7th house is about weddings, Capricorn and Saturn and second house about business.) There is also "Category:Wikipedians interested in Astrology" for expertise. If you don't have the software try here[8] – go to "my astro" at the top, set up an account, set up your chart with transits and bobsyeruncle. Julia Rossi (talk) 23:25, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

The problem with the Moon, though, is that it moves through all 12 signs every 28 days, and it often occupies 2 signs on any given day. You'd need the exact time of the event to be sure of the Moon sign. Other planets also move from sign to sign, but it's much less likely that the transition will be occurring on the very day you're interested in (although it's certainly possible). -- JackofOz (talk) 04:45, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

...And because of different time zones, the definition of 29 February also depends on where you live. FWIW, the Moon is in the 8th degree of Sagittarius at 0hrs GMT and the 20th degree at 24hrs GMT.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 08:15, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

thanx a lot guys :) it was really helpful. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.169.177.88 (talk) 18:39, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

word history

Any idea where the word 'Gypo' first comes from? --Fredrick day (talk) 18:37, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

This (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=gypsy+&searchmode=none) shows the origins of gypsy. i suspect that gypo started as a localised colloquialism from gypsy but my (admittedly short) search found little of use. ny156uk (talk) 18:58, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Context? There's also gypo or gippo, soldiers slang, from Egyptian. Gwinva (talk) 19:56, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

An Arabian mantle (jubbah) came into the west as a jibbah—though on its trail it gave the Fr. jupe and jupon, skirt; and Eng. jumper, earlier jump. A short jacket, such as the servants wore at Cambridge, England, was called a gippo, still further shortened to gyp. Possibly influenced by gipsy, gypsy (earlier gypcian, from Egyptian, Egypt being their supposed home), it was applied to the servants themselves. It is easy, alas, to see how the word then came to mean a cheat! There is also the suggestion that the college boys may also have been thinking of gyph, a vulture—which was Greek to them. There is another sense of gyp in some localities: to handle roughly, to thrash, which may be related to gee-up, an order to a horse. Gee-up is really geehup!, commands to move ahead. Shipley, J.T.(1945) "Gyp" Dictionary of Word Origins. p. 173.

Also, since the late 1910's, a small independent contractor in the Pacific Northwest lumber industry, a "gyppo logger".—eric 21:12, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

The gipon or jupon was a medieval tunic-coat. "Gyp" also means pain, as in "This leg is giving me gyp". "Gip" used to be a version of gypsum, and "gyppy tummy" is another type of Delhi belly (possibly, again from "Egypt"). I believe "Gyp" is American slang for "swindle", also. All have different etymologies. Gwinva (talk) 00:34, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

What do MEDCs owe to LEDCs?

From LEDC; "in the case of countries ravaged by European colonialism, the word "re-developing" may be more accurate since there were successful economic systems prior to colonialism". Am I not right in thinking that if more economically developed countries are developed in large part because of exploitation of the resources of other countries that are now still developing, that the the more economically developed countries owe a lot to those lesser developed and should do more to help them reach the same standards of living? ----Seans Potato Business 19:26, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

That is one way to look at it. Another is that colonialism hurt the Imperial countries. A very brief example you could use is peanut farming. Nigeria was used extensively for extremely cheap peanuts at the expense of destroying the existing economy in the country. The cheap peanuts ravaged the international peanut market, such as the peanut farms in Georgia in the U.S. So, if colonialism didn't take place, Georgia wouldn't have suffered so much economic hardship and would be better off today. So, should Nigeria use part of the oil profits it now has to help with economic hardship in Georgia? As always, it is how you rationalize to justify your personal belief. It has nothing to do with what is truly right or wrong. -- kainaw™ 19:31, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

The quote assumes that:

1. The prior/initial successful economic systems would have gone on and developed, over time, to what we currently consider developed, had colonialism not happened.
2. Colonialism broke down those systems.
3. Those systems are something worth going back to.

These assumptions are not at all incontestable, particularly the first one. User:Krator (t c) 21:28, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

February 2

One error or two?

Does the sentence "You are so much fun, you hated to leave." have one error or two? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.226.39.245 (talk) 00:15, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

I don't see an error. I can't say I know what it means, though. Is this an ESL thing? --Milkbreath (talk) 00:24, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

The grammatical error in this sentence is that the two verbs do not have a consistent tense. "Are" is in the present tense, but "hated" is in the past tense. In addition, there is no coordinating conjunction between the two clauses. ("and", "but", or "or") However, the sentence itself doesn't make any sense. If a person is fun, what is relevance of hating to leave? Maybe the sentence should say "You had so much fun, and you hated to leave."--Dem393 (talk) 00:29, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

(ec) Sounds a bit odd to me. Seems to be describing a past event, where a person hated to leave because they were either having so much fun, or being the life of the party. A more natural-sounding expression might be either "You were having (or were being) so much fun, you hated to leave", or "You were having/being so much fun, that you hated to leave". -- JackofOz (talk) 00:31, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

It is a run-on sentence, corrected by making a subordinate clause, which renders "You are such fun that you hated to leave," with the sense, as I construe it, "You ordinarily shine so in company, that on that occasion you hated to leave." The preceding is not a run-on sentence, though it tire the lip muscles. --Wetman (talk) 00:46, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

No no no. You misunderstood the question. The point is that if you fix either mistake, the other one becomes correct. So do you count the mistakes together and say there are 2 mistakes, or say that there is only one mistake, because if you fix one, the other is not a mistake anymore. 99.226.39.245 (talk) 05:00, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Also, I made a typo earlier, it should be "You are having so much fun, you hated to leave." not "You are so much fun, you hated to leave." 99.226.39.245 (talk) 05:02, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Ah. Well, in that case, I'd count only one mistake. It's just a question of which correct version was intended; decide that, correct the sole error, and you're home. -- JackofOz (talk) 05:05, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Is there a name for this type of case, wherein either one error or another can be fixed, but not both? Just curious. --Bowlhover (talk) 05:26, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

There is only an argument of "two errors" when the sentence is divorced from context. Thus, we have to construct our own, imagined context, to try to make the sentence make sense. Once we have constructed this context, we realise that there can be two alternative contexts, each of which would require changing a different word in the sentence. Notice that the error is not one of logical inconsistency - it is conceivable that the speaker intended to say that "you" are ordinarily a lot of fun, and that on this particular occasion "you", perhaps as a result of this conviviality, were reluctant to leave. We only see an "error" because the sentence does not match what we would say in these (imagined) contexts.

In real, practical language, there can only be one intended meaning, and so there would only ever be one possible error.

On the other hand, in abstraction the number of "errors" is only limited by our imagination. If I imagined the context to indicate that the intended meaning was "The man you were talking to was such a bore that you would have loved to leave", you could argue that there are multiple "errors" with the sentence. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 00:25, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Unusual rock assemblies

In 2004 our family took a trip around Lake Superior, which was over 1000 miles. In this trip all along the roadside were rock assemblies like this, that obviously someone constructed. There were dozens of these assemblies for the full length around Lake Superior. It obviously took a lot of time to make for someone or a group of people. Is there a name for an assembly of rocks like this and does anyone know the story of these rock assemblies at Lake Superior in Canada? Many were much larger than this and much more complex.--Doug ^talk 00:31, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

That looks like an inukshuk. I don't think there are a lot of Inuit as far south as Lake Superior, so I don't know what sort of people would have erected it there. --Anonymous, 02:05 UTC, 2008-02-02.

Actually, if you read through the article Inukshuk, you will see that it has become a kind of Canadian national symbol and that non-Inuit Canadians have built many, particularly in parks and other natural areas. Marco polo (talk) 02:27, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

I call 'em cairns. 77.56.99.133 (talk) 02:36, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. Reading the article it appears that non-Inuit visitors are duplicating this practice and has got out of hand in Ontario. Where I noticed it the most was on the north part (especially the east part) of the main highway going around Lake Superior - which happens to be Ontario territory. We saw dozens of these (perhaps a hundred). I took pictures of several. The pictures at Commons are also typical of what we saw. I may have to add mine. The old B & W pictures of 1924 and 1929 were typical. We found so many that we knew it had to have been done by several people. Being an old ancient custom carried over into today now makes since. --Doug ^talk 13:38, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

They are also a symbol of the 2010 Winter Olympics, although there are no Inuit in Vancouver. Adam Bishop (talk) 05:45, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

I live on the southern shores of Lake Superior in Michigan's Upper Peninsula, and frankly I have never seen any of these rock formations before. That is not to say they don't exist here in the "U.P.", but perhaps I'll have to keep my eyes open. However, this would underscore the idea that it is primarily a Canadian thing, instead of a practice being done in the States... Who knows, maybe I'll build a couple this summer to start a trend down here! -- Saukkomies 10:00, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

See also, Rock stacking. Dismas|^(talk) 11:06, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

The example looks like a variant of a trilithon. --Wetman (talk) 19:04, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Also live in Michigan (Lower Peninsula) and travel to the "U.P." - however also have not seen them anywhere in Michigan. Where I saw them was definitely in Canada of the Ontario territory, mostly in the northeast part above Lake Superior in Canada. Looking over my pictures, there are many that do in fact look like a variant of a trilithon - that is, they have vertical stone posts that support a horizontal stone like Stonehenge. They are minature versions of a trilithon. Trilithon are megalithic structures of large stones, where these are minature structures of basically the same thing. Trilithons are larger than man, where these inukshuks I saw are about the size of a little person. --Doug ^talk 23:39, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Herbert Spencer

Can you please help me? I need to know how Herbert Spencer fits into ninteenth century British thought and if he has any relevance for today? Norman Clegg (talk) 12:51, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Have you read Herbert Spencer? Algebraist 14:24, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

The Wikipedia artile on Spencer is very long and contains a lot of useful information. Read it then come back if you have further questions. --24.147.69.31 (talk) 14:28, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Spencer, I suppose, is another one of those Victorian antiquities, like Karl Mark, whose reputation and influence has declined steadily over the years. Both lived at a time when it was fashionable to produce a great synthetic vision, one that captured life and history in all its bewildering diversity in a convenient explanatory net; historical materialism for Marx, functionalism for Spencer. But whereas Marx looked for 'collective' solutions to the problems of the time Spencer was the apotheosis of an old Anglo-Saxon liberal tradition, one which sought to remove all artificial constraints to 'natural progress.' The measure of his importance can be gauged from his entry in the 1912 edition of the Dictionary of National Biography;

Spencer's place in the history of thought must be ranked high. His influence in the latter half of the nineteenth century was immense: indeed it has woven itself into our modern methods of thinking that its driving revolutionary energy is nearly spent; there is little likelihood of its being hereafter renewed. It was the best synthesis of knowledge of his times.

Ah, but who now reads Herbert Spencer? Not many, I think. Does he have an abiding relevance? Perhaps, particularly in concepts of laissez-faire, in his belief that state intervention in social and economic life more often makes matters worse, not better. But what of the grander vision of 'Order and Progress', who now has faith in those? Clio the Muse (talk) 00:59, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

There was an interesting review of a new biography of Spencer not long ago in the New Yorker. It's a good read: "However, the big idea that gave Spencer’s philosophy its coherence was just too big to yield coherence or pertinence at more mundane levels. Watching Spencer derive concrete social policies from his theory of evolution is like trying to deduce whether to send the kids to private school from a theory of justice. The sledgehammer cracks the nut, but it makes a mess." --24.147.69.31 (talk) 19:46, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

World Tour

hello,

basically if i were to do a 'world tour' (eg go everywere!, see everything etc) for many years where should i go...any suggestions, are there any websites for this sort of thing, anyone done a similar thing,

thanks, --The world tour (talk) 18:04, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Asked at the Misc. desk, with some responses. Clarityfiend (talk) 18:59, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

energy consumption

hello,

one more question....has the electricity output (from non-renewable sources exc. Nuclear) from western countries, eg France, Uk, US, germany etc been going up or down....just wondering because if it is going up then all the 'save energy' stuff that people are ding would be a waste of time....right?

thanks, --The world tour (talk) 18:23, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

• See [9] which says that for 1993-2004 in the US, generation from coal, liquid petroleum, natural gas, hydroelectric and other renewables, as well as nuclear decreased, while generation from coke increased. It claims that US total generation decreased, which I find surprising, since another reliable source [10] says US consumption is steadily increasing. See also [11]. Edison (talk) 02:18, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Parodies of Coleridge's "Kubla Khan"

I would like to know how continues the parody beginning with the words "In Bakerloo did Aly Khan A stately Hippodrome decree: where Alf the bread-delivery man ..." Is the author known? I understand that he or she was making a point about the importance of the meaning of poetry, rather than the sound of the words. Lawrentius (talk) 18:31, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

bit more here http://plagiarist.com/poetry/1078/comments/2/ or a different version here http://my.telegraph.co.uk/tjsudbury/october_2007/poets_corner_a_classic.htm87.102.44.109 (talk) 20:38, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Here's an ad-hoc parody:

Mr. Bean Interviews

In Xerox Park by Mr. Bean

A stately copier was Seen

And knowing that the ink was Free

-- And paper, too -- decided he

To make some copies of his CV.

Twice ten copies he did think

Would not be too hard upon the ink,

But having not a card to swipe,

He glimpsed instead a prototype:

An early view of what was to be!

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

If anyone likes this style I'll add more.... (hilarious Mr. Bean antics). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.51.122.25 (talk) 22:10, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

The cartoonist Don Martin once did a very funny parody of the poem, targeting the Houston Astrodome. Rhinoracer (talk) 09:44, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

reflections on a vase/mirror/etc.

I would have thought very old painters (Antiquities) already "painted what they saw", to include, for example, the reflection of a window on a shiny vase or in a mirror/other shiny surface, even when the window is not visible in the painting. However, my wife says this is not so old a technique!

So, what's the earliest painting (or epoch, etc) in which we can see a reflection of something "off-canvas"?

Thank you! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.51.122.25 (talk) 21:52, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

I remember a Dutch painter who did detailed images including things seen in reflections. Holbein, perhaps? There were also paintings of a scene viewed in a reflection from a curved reflective object, which can only be viewed "correctly" when the object is placed in the middle of the painting. Edison (talk) 02:30, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

The latter would be anamorphosis. Bovlb (talk) 04:21, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

You may find more at History of painting; pick the earliest artwork that meets your criteria. An argument could be made that Photorealism was the start of "painting what you see". Bovlb (talk) 04:34, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

One famous example of something painted seen in a mirror is the Arnolfini wedding... Also, Venus/Aphrodite was frequently shown gazing into a mirror (see Image:Titian_Venus_Mirror_(furs).jpg etc.). AnonMoos (talk) 15:17, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

The Arnolfini Portrait by Jan van Eyck dates from 1434, but I think that the reflection shows only what is also shown in the painting. The most famous example of a reflection in a painting that shows something outside the picture frame (that I can think of) is Las Meninas by Diego Velasquez from 1656. The mirror shows the king (Philip IV of Spain) and queen looking into the scene from outside. That said, I have no idea what the earliest example of this type of image is.--Eriastrum (talk) 18:21, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

The mirror in the Arnolfini Portrait shows additional figures that are definitely not in the frame.  --Lambiam 23:02, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Do high-shine highlights count as reflection, as in the eyes of this Egyptian boy? The use of such highlights was common in 1st and 2nd centuries A.D Fayum mummy portraits, of which the linked image is an example.  --Lambiam 23:18, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

A fascinating question. Things unseen, in-ness and out-ness, flat space intersecting with other dimensions. The ones who did Lascaux were surely capable of any abstract thought that you or I are. The bodies of the swimming deer are there but not there. The artist himself steps back and leaves the canvas. We are off-canvas now. The earliest example I could find of an actual reflection is from a Roman mural from Herculaneum. I refuse to believe that that bunch of engineers were the first to render a reflection. The concept is not difficult at all. The Egyptians had mirrors, and Cro-Magnons had at least ponds and puddles. And eyes. --Milkbreath (talk) 00:39, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

You are right, Lambiam, that the Jan van Eyck mirror does indeed show two figures between the couple. One source says that one of the figures might be Jan himself. I didn't realize this until I looked at a good reproduction, since the images in the mirror are so small. I found another interesting example of mirror images in paintings. The Music Lesson by Vermeer shows a woman with her back to the viewer playing a virginal. There is a rectangular mirror on the wall in front of her, and in it you can see her face. What is interesting is that in the reflection what is shown behind her does not seem to be what is behind her in the painting! Is this an error, a joke, a piece of obscure symbolism?--Eriastrum (talk) 18:19, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Constituent Assemblies dismissing Congresses

The Ecuadorian Constituent Assembly convened in late November of last year, and the first thing they did was to vote to dismiss Congress. Now, for the time being, a portion of the assembly has assumed the legislative role that Congress once had. I'm curious to know if there are other examples of a constituent assembly dismissing a nation's Congress. Sjmcfarland (talk) 21:57, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

The United States Constitutional Convention pretty well did away with the Congress of the Confederation. Corvus cornix_talk 21:59, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

100 years of best sellers

Is there a list somewhere on the net of all the best sellers (books) of the 20th Century? Keria (talk) 22:46, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

There is one for the USA in Publishers Weekly lists of bestselling novels in the United States. It´s by single years, though and does not give individual sales figures, so you can´t accumulate it over the century. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 01:13, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

You can check out the list of best-selling books and filter the list for all books published in the 20th Century. However, the sales figures will include sales that have occurred over the last eight years, as well. − Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 06:03, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Intricate mysteries

Which are some of the most intricate and complicated detective or mystery novels? Keria (talk) 22:48, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Wilkie Collins wrote one of the first detective novels in The Moonstone. It's pretty complex and can help you see the history of the genre. Wrad (talk) 23:19, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

One detective novel that stands out to me as intricate is The Big Sleep by Raymond Chandler. --Anonymous, 00:02 UTC, February 3, 2008.

Intricate enough that even Chandler couldn't work it out—personally that's a big turn-off. Personally I'm a big fan of the (later) work of James Ellroy (White Jazz onward), which is very densely wrought with facts, characters, and context. --24.147.69.31 (talk) 18:18, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Agatha Christie was an early lover of fiendishly complicated plots (see, for instance, The Murder of Roger Ackroyd). A US example which comes to mind is Richard North Patterson's Dark Lady (1991). Xn4 07:24, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Reginald Hill's Dialogues of the Dead is an intellectual romp through literature, myth, and language tied up with a complicated murder which is like a word puzzle in itself. Here's one review I googled, as a taster, but I'm sure there are better ones out there. Gwinva (talk) 08:58, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

How to write literature

Could you recommend a book about writing literature? It would be giving advices such as what to look for when writing sentences, the traps to avoid, how to vary sentence construction and the like. I'm looking for a work on literature and writing, not on plot construction or on 'how to write a best seller'. Thank you. Keria (talk) 22:52, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

This is not of much help, but: I don´t think it works that way. There may be books on "Writing Literature by Numbers", indeed, there certainly are many. I simply doubt their usefulness.

If you feel that you must write, than I suggest:

• Read every spare minute, less as a reader, but more as an analyst, as a critic, as a student of the skills (and weaknesses) of a fellow writer.
• Consider joining a local writers´workshop, where budding novelists read from their work in progress. If nothing more, it will make you aware what a sentence sounds like "from the outside" and how your mind constructs the images parallel to the words on paper.
• If you are serious about writing, you will have to learn the difficult skill to alienate yourself from "Keria the writer". You need to be able to read (and reread) your work as if you had never seen these words before. You, in your role of "Keria the critic" must be able to recognise, without pity, any weakness in the construction. A slight personality disorder seems almost mandatory. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 02:09, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

It seems to me that what you are looking for is a book on Composition. Perhaps the reason you have been finding it difficult to locate a book on this subject is that you were not using the right keyword to find it. Try going to Google, Amazon.com, or your local library, and using the keywords "composition writing", and you'll find plenty of material to choose from. -- Saukkomies 09:14, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

The best concise little book on writing style is, of course, Strunk and White. It is also quite entertaining. It cannot teach you how to be a good writer, but it does help keep you from being an abysmal one, if you follow its advice. Buy a copy and keep it at your bedside. Read it a few times through until you've internalized its suggestions. They're good ones. --24.147.69.31 (talk) 14:40, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

A "summation of the case for cleanliness, accuracy, and brevity in the use of English" sounds very good, and it's available online! Now I'm all worried about making gramatical mistakes. Thank you. I'll look into composition too. Cheerio! Keria (talk) 17:45, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

The only one available online for free is Strunk's original 1918 text. Get the full Strunk & White for more tips on grammar and style. White's bits are really quite wonderful as well and very funny; he has long descriptions on good and bad things to avoid when writing that goes far beyond Strunk's original rules. It's worth the $5 or whatever it is that it costs (it is a very short book, by the way). You can certainly find it used almost anywhere as well. I have an illustrated version which is just wonderfully fun as well (but meant to be fairly silly). Whenever I mentor thesis students I make them buy a copy and learn to worship it. As they point out, you don't have to follow "the rules", but in most cases, it's a good idea, and if you're going to break them, you should at least know you are, and be prepared for the consequences! --24.147.69.31 (talk) 18:05, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Not everyone agrees that Strunk & White is a useful book. Here are some well-informed attacks Haukur (talk) 23:45, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Well, you can find a fool who believes anything! Anyway, as I said, Strunk and White are very clear that they are not so much rules as guidelines, and that violating them is of course within the perogative of the writer. As with a musical instrument, or any other fine art, one generally needs to spend time learning the "formal" and "correct" way of doing something before deciding to become avante garde, and frankly if most beginners could stick with Strunk and White, the world would be a much more well-written place! In any case, whether you like it or not, whether you heed it or not, Strunk and White is a classic book on composition. One can hardly burn a copy, as one of those pages suggests, before one has owned and read it to care enough to burn it. --24.147.69.31 (talk) 15:02, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

I've read the version available online and it has already helped me tremendously. Bye bye passive constructions (when unecessary). I've even managed to localise one book here in South America! Thank you for the suggestion. I think you are right, 24, it looks like the book can defend itself against any attack. It has pre-defused the traps by stating that one should stray from the rule when feeling it is justified. I'll read the critics too though. I'm sure they are very interesting. I'll look further into 'composition' for more complete books. Keria (talk) 15:21, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

I'd recommend Fowler or Gowers (the latter shamefully under-represented on Wikipedia) over Strunk & White. There's nothing wrong with the passive voice. 80.254.147.52 (talk) 16:45, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Here's one guy who really hates Strunk & White and recommends Merriam-Webster's Concise Dictionary of English Usage instead. While I'm on the subject, I can't resist linking this poem. -- BenRG (talk) 17:41, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

I asked directly the professor who wrote the critique of Strunk and White (I think it is the same BemRG is linking to) to suggest alternatives and he replied with a very kind email. He suggested, among others, Joseph WILLIAMS Style: Toward Clarity and Grace. The title, at the very least, sounds good to me. Keria (talk) 22:39, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

February 3

Intelligence and wisdom

Can any one point me to sources that outline the differences?--TreeSmiler (talk) 02:29, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

I use the bathroom mirror to evaluate the differences.

Unfortunately, some frothy mouthed lunatic with a toothbrush obscures my view. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 02:43, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

That's mildly humorous Cockatoo. schyler (talk) 03:00, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

There is a Zen Buddhist saying that talks about this: "When an ordinary man gains knowledge, he becomes a Sage. When a Sage gains understanding, he becomes an ordinary man." -- Saukkomies 09:19, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

There are so many recognised kinds of intelligence that wisdom sounds like the ablity to actually use it. I guess it's a bit like "intelligence" processes data and makes connections, finds relationships, remembers... "wisdom" is knowing what to do with it. Wisdom seems connected to having perspective or values. Julia Rossi (talk) 02:01, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Treasure Island

From Ripoff Britain: Many believe that true competition from the internet and from abroad will eventually normalize retail prices and put an end to the suffering of an angry population tired of being referred to as "Treasure Island". - I've never heard of the UK being referred to as 'Treasure Island' and even if it was, I don't get it? Treasure? Huh? ----Seans Potato Business 02:41, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Presumably the idea is "an island country that is a source of 'treasure' to people selling stuff there". --Anon, 09:30 UTC, Feb. 3.

Sales Taxes on Ebay

If i as a seller on ebay am selling an item and i am not a business do i have to charge sales taxes.--logger (talk) 02:41, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Have a look at sales tax, and these eBay help pages[12][13]. The last page says, "Please contact a tax professional to determine whether you need to charge sales tax on your eBay sales. eBay cannot and does not provide tax advice". For more assistance, you might want to tell us what country (and state) you're in, but I'm afraid we can't offer legal advice either. Bovlb (talk) 04:28, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Likely not if you're selling your own used (secondhand) stuff (from Australia). Julia Rossi (talk) 02:04, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Song

Well I thought that I was knowledgeable of music to certain extent but I feel kind of embarrassed that I don't know what song is in this video. Sad really. Thanks, schyler (talk) 02:59, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

PS Musipedia didn't help.

It's the 1812 Overture, specifically the crescendo section that occurs at around 4mins and 15mins into this version. Foxhill (talk) 03:19, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Of Course! One in the same as in V for Vendetta! Thanks, schyler (talk) 16:27, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Horse Racing and the Horse's Age

Why is it that in horse racing they require that the horses' ages be different dependent upon which hemisphere they come from. For instance, in the Dubai World Cup... they say that if the horse is from the Northern Hemisphere then it should be four years old and up... but if it is from the Southern Hemisphere it should be three years old and up. Why is this? Tbwebber (talk) 07:51, 3 February 2008 (UTC)Tbwebber

All racing horses have an official birthday of January 1 in the northern hemisphere or August 1 in the Southern hemisphere. Dubai's racing season is from January to March, so Northern horses will have just had their birthday and will be a year "older" than Southern horses of the same age. FiggyBee (talk) 08:04, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Do you have a link or reference for this? Thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tbwebber (talk • contribs) 06:22, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

The 1 Jan/1 Aug thing is mentioned in our Horse article. As for that being the Dubai organisers' reasoning, that's just my conjecture. FiggyBee (talk) 06:49, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Names of schools - Scots/Scotch?

Why is it that many private schools in Australia bear the name Scots/Scotch College, or some variation thereof? Is it related to Presbyterianism's roots in Scotland? 211.30.58.79 (talk) 14:03, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Yes. Xn4 07:09, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

images of buddha

how many symbols are used in buddist images ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.141.134.2 (talk) 14:52, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Could start at Buddhist symbols... AnonMoos (talk) 15:09, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Bestsellers in the UK

I would like to read English literature, which are among the best sellers in the UK in literature topic. Could you advise me a best seller list? --Ksanyi (talk) 18:19, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

If you are specifically interested in literary fiction, then the list of bestsellers is probably not the best starting place. About half of them are cookbooks, self-help books, and genre fiction. I'd begin by looking at books which have recently won British awards. Lantzy ^talk 19:05, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

George Washington

Hello im kinda new to wikipedia and i looked around but id like to know more about the plantaions george owned can someone please point me in a direction? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.205.208.206 (talk) 21:01, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Have you read Mount Vernon? People sometimes think Mount Vernon is the name of Washington's house, but actually it's the name of the plantation. Mount Vernon represented just a portion of Washington's real estate, but it was his primary plantation. Any more specific questions? —Kevin Myers 22:15, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

George Washington article here lists almost all his own simple fee absolute land holdings, plus the vast amount he controlled and received income from its management. His landholdings, plantations and the slavery issue are always discussed in biographies. 75Janice (talk) 01:48, 4 February 2008 (UTC)75Janice75Janice (talk) 01:48, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Who was the first to climb Mount Vernon? Did he/she require oxygen for the climb? Edison (talk) 03:31, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Sleeping problems

Sorry, this is a medical question, and those aren't allowed on the reference desk. For your sake, please consult a doctor. --Anonymous, 01:53 UTC, February 4, 2008.

Children's Book a Metaphor for WWII

I read a children's book a while ago, but I cannot remember the title or author. I believe the illustrations were hand drawn in black and white. The story takes place in a forest, with each of the animal species (racoons, deer, rabbits, foxes, et.) killed off one by one, but no one does anything about it because they don't think it concerns them. The whole story is a metaphor for WWII. Do you know the title and/or author? Dlempa (talk) 21:30, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Sounds like 'La Bête est Morte', a children's book by the French illustrator Calvo. I believe an English version was published by Fantagraphics. Rhinoracer (talk) 09:52, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Gothic cathedrals

The fictional Kingsbridge Cathedral in The Pillars of the Earth is claimed to be the first Gothic cathedral in England. Which one really was? Corvus cornix_talk 21:49, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Canterbury Cathedral, I believe. Carom (talk) 22:08, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Durham Cathedral, though largly Romanesque, was, I think, the first to adopt aspects of the new Gothic style. Clio the Muse (talk) 23:38, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks to both of you. Corvus cornix_talk 20:02, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

February 4

Political terminology

Does anyone know if there is a term for the following: the act of posing or dressing as a civilian by a combatant (for the purpose of camouflage or human shielding). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.65.24.183 (talk) 03:30, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Perfidy includes this, but involves many other acts as well. --Bowlhover (talk) 04:40, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Maybe a perfidious ruse of war, or a perfidious False flag operation. -- Azi Like a Fox (talk) 08:08, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

One word is espionage - a combatant enemy alien found on a nation's territory can be tried and punished as a spy, if not in uniform. In the not so distant past, this often resulted in execution. Xn4 06:58, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

A Medal of a Friend

A friend of mine has a box of medal's he was awarded during his time in the U.S. Military. I do not know the war he fought in, or what the medal was awarded for, but I can tell you what it looked like if that helps.

It was a bronse star, with a chevron above it that had 13 stars within, below the chevron (the chevron was above the main part of the star and was used to attach the medal to the cloth that would be pinned to the vest that would hold it, it was White and Blue alnternating like this "White:Blue:White:Blue") was an eagle with its wings spread out.

I hope this is a good enough discription, please help. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.245.144.234 (talk) 05:36, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

A Bronze star with 13 little stars, an eagle and blue-and-white sounds awfully like the Medal of Honor... FiggyBee (talk) 07:39, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

All Medal of Honor recipients have a Wikipedia article. Does your friend have one? User:Krator (t c) 08:55, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

If it is the US Medal of Honor, then see List of Medal of Honor recipients. Pace Krator, I see a lot of red links there. Bovlb (talk) 17:46, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Unfortunately not all Medal of Honor recipients have their own article. There are many red links within the Philippine-American War, Boxer Rebellion, and United States occupation of Veracruz, 1914 recipient classes. Still your friend would have to be at least 111 to have fought in that last! --S.dedalus (talk) 21:23, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Britain and Rome

How did the Romans view Britain, both before and after the conquest? Ryan348 (talk) 07:26, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Before the conquest it was a source of plenty of natural resources, but also of assistance for the Gauls and Germans who were fighting the Romans on the Continent, and the Romans often launched raids against Britain as a penalty. After the conquest, it was the pride of the emperors, even as late as the 4th century it was somewhat of a private island for the imperial family (Constantine was born there, if I am not confusing things). It was also still a good source for lots of natural resources. But eventually, once the Germanic tribes started pouring in, they could no longer afford to keep their legions there, and it was basically abandoned in the 5th century, which allowed the Angles and the Saxons and the Jutes and all the rest to invade. Adam Bishop (talk) 08:49, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

I'm not quite sure I share your view on Britain as the 'pride of the emperors', Adam; Roman attitudes towards the island were always complex, a mixture of the positive and of the negative. Before the invasion of 43AD Virgil wrote of Britain as a remote and barbarous place. In 416AD, after almost four hundred years of occupation, Rutilius Namatianus, the Prefect of the city of Rome, was still able to write of it as one of the most remote and wild parts of the Roman world!

I rather suspect, Ryan, that Roman attitudes towards Britain were rather like British attitudes towards the north-west frontier of their own nineteenth century Indian Empire: important to hold but difficult to love. Dio Cassius, when writing of the third century campaign of Septimius Severus in the north of the island, was to lament the difficulties caused by the 'bogs and forests', the very same things that had hindered the conquest under Claudius almost two hundred years before. Ammianus Marcellinus, a fourth century Roman historian, was to praise the Emperor Constans for a surprise visit he made to the island in 343AD, in terms that would suggest he had crossed to the ends of the earth!

But Britain remained attractive, in economic and strategic terms, for the rest of the Roman world; at once a place of profit and settlement in the south, and mystery and barbarism in the north, the direction of Ultima Thule and the Fortunate Islands. Even Antoninus Pius, the most unwarlike of Emperors, was determined to make his mark there, advancing his army into what was later to become the south of Scotland, the only expansion of his reign. And it was from Britain that Constantine the Great began what was perhaps the last great military campaign of the Roman world, one that was to transform the Empire. "Fortunate Britain, now most blessed of lands since you have been the first to see Constantine as Caesar." Clio the Muse (talk) 01:42, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Right; I don't know why I said that, I guess I was extrapolating from some old memory that Constans and Constantine had a connection to York. Adam Bishop (talk) 04:31, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

To underscore what Clio said, most Roman soldiers considered being sent to Brittania as doing hard time. It was not the most attractive climate for pursuing the typical Roman way of life. The women slaves from Brittania, though, were highly sought-after - especially the ones who had golden coloured hair. -- Saukkomies 13:07, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

When did people start smiling in photographs?

In early photographs, subjects almost never smile. Today, it is almost obligatory. Does anyone know when the convention changed, and why? Lantzy ^talk 08:40, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

it probably had something to do with the invention of instant photography - at first, it took awhile for the photo to be taken, and people can't smile naturally for dozens of minutes. Adam Bishop (talk) 08:44, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Also, having one's photograph taken used to be a rare event, not unlike having one's potrait painted for posterity. One's bearing, smart clothes, and a dignified expression commanded much respect in Victorian society.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 09:19, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

The examples middle-class people began to imitate were the ingratiating smiles of actors and actresses rather than to externalize a desire to look noble, and God-fearing, or at least serious-minded. The change becomes evident after WWI, and intrudes last among aristocrats. "Not to look like a 'grinning idiot'" was a concern voiced openly, if privately, even in my youth. I notice a kind of perpetual faint smile on people who've beenm trained to "look pleasant" and I seem to detect it even in tv news anchors reporting disasters. Today the middle-class in America are taking it a step further, to a "surprise face"— of eyebrows up, ears attentively perked— the "Have a nice day!" smiley-face; definitely cartoon-derived. --Wetman (talk) 10:24, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

For one 1855 view, look at Image:1855-daguerrotype-familyphoto-joke-Punch.gif -- Churchh (talk) 11:31, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

This is interesting enough to be an article, as well as different cultural expectations in photographs, there's heaps here already. It's really weird when news anchors smile in the face of (or background of) disasters which aren't their own. It's probably just as strange when a reporter scowls or mugs seriousness at the camera to look "truthy". Julia Rossi (talk) 11:47, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

What news program do you watch where the anchors smile when reporting a disaster? I've never seen that happen. 206.252.74.48 (talk) 17:27, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

I remember watching a bbc series about the history of photography and i'm pretty sure they noted it to be around the time that photos changed from being 'formal portraits' (i.e. mimicking classic paintings) to being an every-day thing - so about the time that Kodak came about. Also this book link (http://books.google.com/books?id=ICoqRgdt1XMC&pg=PA32&lpg=PA32&dq=%22smiling+in+photographs%22+history&source=web&ots=KnG-Oax25Y&sig=UEP-jZDb611qY_6IjMr_2DFbc5c) has a bit of detail about it. I think film-speed will have had something to do with it - back in the day it used to take several seconds sitting still to expose a shot. Now it can be done in less than 1000th of a second! ny156uk (talk) 18:04, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

The convention of smiling in photographs is a 20th century invention [14]. In the 19th century people looked serious in photos. It has little to do with the technology: people continued to look serious in phots long after relatively instant photos were possible. It also has little to do with amateur photos versus studio photos. Now, sadly, cameras are on the market with a "smile filter" which inhibits the taking of the photo until the camera brain decides the subject is smiling. Edison (talk) 01:39, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

There also seems to be a difference between more developed countries versus less developed ones. In America, it's obviously a smiley place when the cameras come out. In Japan, things can be even worse, with most girls not only smiling for the camera but flashing peace signs as well. In Central Africa, cameras are still quite rare, and getting one's picture taken a special event. Accordingly, people rarely smile, preferring instead to gaze off into the distance to get a 3/4-view portrait. Clothing is also very important there, whereas in America and Japan, people are often willing to be photographed no matter what they're wearing. It's often difficult to get candids in Africa. — Dulcem (talk) 02:02, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

File:1903 world series crowd.jpg

Take a look at this picture from the 1903 World Series in Boston. You'll notice that all of the men and boys (there are no women) in the picture are looking surly, except perhaps for that one boy in the bottom right. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 03:55, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

As a side note, I believe face recognition software works better when the subject is smiling. Perhaps that's why we smile when meeting. Adambrowne666 (talk) 04:16, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

To answer 206.252.74.48 I felt maybe I'd generalised unfairly from a couple of impressions, but nope, there it was on the news: flood rescue in the background and the reporter trying to look pleasant. Naming no networks, Australia, my friend. : ) Julia Rossi (talk) 10:50, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Isn't there a counter-trend among young people to scowl in photos? I have read that this comes from African American teenagers imitating rap stars. There might be a name for this. BrainyBabe (talk) 14:35, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Test of October

I understand that in the political struggles in Russia in the 1920s, after the death of Lenin, the attitude the various Bolshevik leaders took towards the desirability of the uprising in October 1917 became an important factor in establishing political credibility within the Communist party. Does anyone have any examples of how this worked in practice? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.152.107.154 (talk) 09:05, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

The obvious and great example of this came with the so-called Literary Discussion, 81.152, the name given to a particular phase of the struggle within the Russian Communist Party in 1924. It began after Leon Trotsky published The Lessons of October. In this he analysed the events leading to the October Revolution in 1917, drawing particular attention to the opposition of Grigory Zinoviev and Lev Kamenev to Lenin's plans for a Bolshevik takeover. Trotsky's intervention here had a crucial effect on the inner-party struggles that had become increasingly more intense after the death of Lenin in January of the same year. To keep Trotsky from power, Zinoviev and Kamenev had allied with Stalin in a triumvirate. Having served its purpose this alliance was already weakening when Trotsky published his booklet. But Stalin at once came to the aid of his associates, and all three began a renewed assault on Trotsky and the arguments put forward in the Lessons of October. Amongst other things, all of his alleged errors were publicised, including his former opposition to the Bolsheviks and his current opposition to the New Economic Policy. Trotsky was completely outmaneuvered, especially by Stalin, who played a skilful political game as always. In January 1925 Trotsky was forced to resign as head of the Red Army. Paradoxically, while indeed weakening the long-term credibility of Zinoviev and Kamenev within the Party, his actions only served to strengthen the position of Stalin still further. Clio the Muse (talk) 00:47, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

What really is absolute pitch?

We've got an article for this, but I'm still wondering what it means to have absolute pitch. I never received musical training and I can't play any instrument. How do I know if I have absolute pitch? How would absolute pitch help in learning music and to speak a foreign language? Does that mean, if you have absolute pitch, you would have an advantage of identifying the right musical (to play your instrument better, for example) note / the intonation of a foreign language? --Fitzwilliam (talk) 11:04, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

You can find out if you have absolute pitch by repeatedly consulting some sort of tuning device. Absolute pitch would initially help with tuning an instrument, which can make your output seem much better than someone who is out-of-tune. As to a foreign language, I don't see why it would help. Even with tonal languages, the important part is the changes in tone. So it really doesn't matter what pitch you start at. One of the benefits of absolute pitch is that when you're playing, you can easily notice when you or your playing mates are out-of-tune and maybe compensate for that (depending on the instrument you're playing).--droptone (talk) 12:38, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Absolute pitch is the ability to identify a tone (i.e. a sound frequency), without the aid of a reference tone. Relative pitch is the ability to identify a tone, given a reference tone. If you have relative pitch (as does any decent musician), you will be as capable of tuning an instrument as someone with absolute pitch, if only you have a reference tone, say a tuning fork. Someone with relative pitch will easily notice when they or their playing mates are out-of-tune. --NorwegianBlue ^talk 15:40, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

The chances are that you don't have perfect pitch since it isn't all that common, though neither is it terribly rare. You could try humming the tune of a song you've listened to many times (always from the same recording), and then play that recording and see if you were in the right key. Like NorwegianBlue said, I don't think it makes a big different one way or the other as regards musical ability. It has disadvantages too, as the article mentions. -- BenRG (talk) 17:07, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Speaking as one who does have perfect pitch, I can attest to both its usefulness and its occasional inconveniences. For one thing absolute pitch makes it easier to take music dictation in a music theory class. It’s also a great party trick. Essentially I hear a note as having a unique sound associated only with that pitch. I don’t have to think about it. Of course if you don’t know the notes of a musical scale it may be hard to know if you could identify them. Some basic music training would help. There are a few limitations to absolute pitch though. For instance my ability to identify pitches breaks down in the extreme high and low registers. I also have trouble identifying notes that last for less than about an sixth of a second. As I mentioned above there are some times when perfect pitch is downright inconvenient. Baroque music is often played slightly flat from modern tuning on recordings in order to authenticate the original performance practice of the time. This drives me crazy! It sounds utterly out of tune. Contrary to common belief I also don’t find that perfect pitch helps me play more in tune. It just tells me how badly out of tune I am! (Playing in tune has a lot more to do with dexterity and memory than it does with your ear because by the time you hear a note it’s too late.) So anyway, even if you don’t have absolute pitch don’t be too disappointed. It’s unlikely to affect your ability to learn music significantly. --S.dedalus (talk) 20:21, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Muslims Hindus India Pakistan

What was the relationship between the Muslims and Hindus in India before Gandhi and India’s independence from England and what is the current status between India and Pakistan? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.30.197.47 (talk) 12:58, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Long before Gandhi gave the Congress Party an ideology that drew heavily from India's Hindu tradition, the Muslim community was undergoing its own revival. By the mid nineteenth century tensions between the two communities were increasingly acute, particularly in the north of India, where there were disputes over the slaughter of cows and the replacement of Persian script in government by the Hindu Nagri script. Hindu revivalism also inhibited those within the nationalist movement when they looked for some form of rapprochement with the Muslim League. In many ways the British themselves contributed towards the growing divisions, classifying people by religious background in their decennial census of the Indian Empire, and by the creation of a separate Muslim electorate.

The Partition of India, it might be said, had roots in this policy of divide and rule. But it was fear of being a permanent minority in a Hindu-dominated India that led to Muslim intellectuals towards the notion of Pakistan. As early as December 1930, Muhammad Iqbal, poet and philosopher, sketched out his view of an independent Muslim state in the north-west of India, a position eventually adopted by Muhammad Ali Jinnah. The elections of 1946 gave the Muslim League an overwhelming majority within their electoral bloc, making the creation of Pakistan all but inevitable. By this time violence between the two communities was endemic, urged on by Hindu insensitivity, which amongst other things required Muslim schoolchildren to sing Vande Mataram.

As for the current state of relations you could do no better, 66.30, than read through the History of Pakistan. Relations are sometimes good, but more often bad, with the Kashmir question acting as a continual source of friction. Clio the Muse (talk) 02:39, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

One of the reasons for there being tensions between the Muslims and Hindus in India was due in part to the period of time when India and the surrounding areas were ruled by the Mughal Empire, which was Muslim. Although the Mughals were generally very tolerant of other non-Muslim religions, they served as the ruling elite, and this is when Islam really took hold of this region. Many of the people who converted to Islam during this time were considered under Hinduism as being members of the Untouchable Caste. There was no way that a person born into this caste could escape their unhappy fate within Hinduism, but by becoming Muslims these people were able to liberate themselves from this unjust system. If an Untouchable became a Muslim, he would no longer be considered to be a person that was automatically inferior, and this attracted a great many people to join Islam at this time. The problem was that this created tensions between the Hindus and Muslims, as the Hindus saw this as a system that was attacking their time-honored tradition of the Caste system. Muslims and Hindus lived side by side, though, in relative peace pretty much up until the 20th Century. -- Saukkomies 13:20, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Choosing a college

I'm a high school senior and I've been admitted at the undergraduate level to the University of Michigan at Ann Arbor, MIT, Stanford and Caltech. Pretty cool, aye? Anyhoo, where should I go? Assume I don't care about factors like location, climate, size of student body and cost. I can't make up my mind and I'd like to know the opinion of the people around here.

Thanks in advance.

Hasanclk (talk) 15:13, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

As an Ohio native, I must say avoid UM, it's an evil school :-) In all seriousness, you'd do better to tell us what you want to study, since that affects where would be best for you. Nyttend (talk) 15:15, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Haha, evil! I'm looking forward to getting a Bachelor's degree in engineering, not sure about the exact field though. Hasanclk (talk) 15:29, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

I know very little about Caltech, but I can say that UM is a HUGE school with a rather forbidding bureaucracy. You might feel like a number there. As for Stanford, I don't know anything about its engineering programs, but having studied in the Bay Area (at rival UC Berkeley) and known students there, I can say that it has something of a country-club atmosphere. (That might be a plus or a minus, depending on your perspective.) I now live in Boston and have lived here for many years. I have known many students and staff at MIT. I often use the MIT libraries myself. I have known very few people who did not enjoy their time at MIT. The school has a wonderfully informal and sometimes irreverent culture, which encourages collaboration, creativity, and innovation. Of course, MIT is also world renowned, and an MIT degree is certainly the equal of a degree from any of the other schools. Marco polo (talk) 18:23, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

MIT certainly has the cachet, but Cal Tech is no slouch, either. And the weather's better.  :) Corvus cornix_talk 20:04, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

True, but you'd have to own a car to get around Pasadena, whereas you don't if you live in Cambridge/Boston. Just another factor! But honestly... treat yourself and don't go to Boston. The weather is lousy here. Just plain awful. Either Stanford or Caltech are going to be miles better. I went to Caltech not too long ago to do some research and was just shocked by the fact that people were wearing t-shirts and shorts when everybody back in Boston was under two feet of snow. From a purely personal standpoint, I'd spend your relatively "carefree" undergrad time in a place of sun, and only if you've committed to the relatively monastic life of graduate study should you dare live back east. ;-) --24.147.69.31 (talk) 22:13, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

I know that I am in the minority, but I moved from California to Boston partly because I prefer the weather in Boston. If you want it to be nearly room temperature outside year-round, with little variation, California is nice. If you enjoy a change of seasons, Boston is better. The snow is pretty, and snowshoeing and cross-country skiing are fun. If you are a student and not planning to drive a car (and you wouldn't need one at MIT), the snow is not really an issue. Just get a warm coat, and wear a hat when it is cold and windy. Marco polo (talk) 01:41, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

MIT, UofM, and CalTech are, in my humble opinion, diploma mills. They are only concerned with undergraduates to the point that they bring to the school tuition. You'll find overcrowded classes, cold uncaring administration and advisors who are too busy to really help. Of the choices you gave, I'd say your best bet would be to go to Stanford - especially if your field is in electronics or communication, since it's the university right next to Silicon Valley, and has many contacts in that community. There are, though, other very fine technological universities other than those you've listed. Perhaps you could expand your options a bit. -- Saukkomies 13:25, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Independence of Rhodesia?

Just curious: it seems that virtually everywhere I read, it's officially considered that the territory now the Republic of Zimbabwe only became independent in 1980 (for example, the article says "On 18 April 1980, the country attained independence and along with it a new name, Zimbabwe, new flag, and government led by Robert Mugabe of ZANU.") when given by the UK, rather than in 1965 when it declared independence. On the other hand, it is widely acknowledged that the USA became independent in 1776, when in declared independence, rather than in 1783 at the Treaty of Paris that acknowleded US independence — even the British The Post Office acknowledged it in 1976 with SG 1005/Scott 785, inscribed "Bicentennial of American Independence 1776-1976". Why is Rhodesia, which (unlike the USA) did not face military resistance from the UK after declaring independence, considered differently? Nyttend (talk) 15:13, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

United Nations Security Council Resolution 216 may be relevant. Algebraist 16:07, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

On the issue of military resistance, perhaps because it was not needed? The existance of the UN allows nations to act on a united diplomatic front in a way that just would not be possible in 1776. If Britain had left the nascient USA be, without invading it, but without recognising it either, it would be left in the position of being one of the only states to do so - France, for instance, would have definitely recognised the USA, leaving Britain's position looking rather ridiculous. In the modern era however, its relatively easy to get all of the most influential nations on board on a diplomatic decision. Rhodesia didn't need to be invaded, because their claims to sovereignty could be invalidated through High Diplomacy, rather than military force. Ninebucks (talk) 17:09, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

The United States considers itself to have become independent in 1776. The government of Zimbabwe presumably doesn't recognize the apartheid regime of "independent" Rhodesia to be legitimate, so it considers itself "independent" as of 1980. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:53, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

So far as I am aware no country in the world, not even the old apartheid regime in South Africa, recognised Rhodesia after the Unilateral Declaration of Independence in 1965. Clio the Muse (talk) 00:11, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

can i eat dogfood?

i'm broke and have no family and nothing else comes close too as cheap. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.51.122.6 (talk) 18:40, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

As I understand it meat-based food for animals can often fall into the "not fit for human consumption" group. Petfood is no cheaper than human-food if you purchase the right goods - pasta, rice, bread, fruit, vegetables can all be used to produce meals at very little cost. Meat-based food is generally more expensive but seriously unless you are home and all that is left in the cupboards is pet-food - and even then i'd still suggest that there's potential for it to be harmful to you to eat pet-food - it's not produced for human consumption so will no doubt have less strict rules on its creation/food standards. ny156uk (talk) 18:56, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

(ec) as ny156uk said, the primary ingredient is often stuff that's been declared unfit for human consumption. Dogfood also probably lacks a lot of nutrients that humans need (for example, dogs can make their own vitamin C, humans can't). And - according to Dave Lister at least - the reason "dogs lick their testicles is to get rid of the taste of the food". FiggyBee (talk) 19:03, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

In my city, brand X tuna is available at the large discount supermarket chain for slightly more than half of a U.S. dollar for a 6-ounce can, while brand X bologna is less than a U.S. dollar per pound. Is predominantly meat-based pet food really so much less expensive than that? By the way, dogs are omnivorous while cats are carnivorous, so that cheap dog-food has a lot of non-meat filler... AnonMoos (talk) 19:21, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

I have been through periods of being poor, so poor that I counted my money in U.S. cents rather than dollars. The foods that I found cheapest and healthiest were dried beans and rice. It's best to get brown (whole grain) rice rather than white rice, because brown rice has a lot more protein and vitamins. As for dried beans, any kind will do, chick peas, lentils, red beans, black beans, white beans. They tend to be cheaper than canned beans (when you consider that one pound of dried beans makes about 4 pounds of cooked beans), and they are easier to carry from the store. (If you are as poor as I was, you cannot afford the bus.) To add flavor and vitamins, you can cook these things with cheap vegetables, like carrots and onions. Dried beans take time to prepare. It is best to soak them in water overnight, the drain the soaking water, and then you may need to boil them for more than an hour. Brown rice also needs to boil for 45 minutes or so. But if you are very poor, you probably have time to do this. If you can afford a little cooking oil (or butter), the onions taste good fried in the oil. Also, it is good to have a little oil in your diet. There are few nutrients that you would get from meat that you can't get from rice and beans. If you want to add animal protein, look for kinds that are relatively cheap, like chicken livers (good fried lightly with onions), or possibly eggs. You don't need to have animal protein every day. Once or twice a week should be enough. It is more important to save money for cheap fruits (apples?) and vegetables so that you have vitamins. A diet of mainly rice and beans, with some cheap vegetables, would be MUCH healthier and no more expensive than dog food. Marco polo (talk) 19:51, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

We were all assuming that he was turning to pet food for cheap meat. I was just at a supermarket an hour ago, which happens to be part of the lowest-priced grocery chain in my mid-sized metropolitan area, and I found that the cheapest tuna ("Bumble Bee" brand) was at 52 cents for 6 ounces, or $1.04 a pound, while the cheapest packaged bologna (generic store brand) was at 88 cents for 12 ounces, or $1.17 a pound, and the cheapest canned cat food (didn't notice the brand) was at 28 cents for 5.5 ounces, or $0.81 a pound. (I didn't price dog food for the reason mentioned above.) However, the cat food is subject to sales tax (while the tuna and bologna aren't), so that the approximate 8% sales tax in my local area will raise the actual checkout price of the cat food to about $0.88 a pound. So I have to wonder if he's really so impoverished and desperate for meat that the 16 cents a pound price difference between cat food and tuna, or the 29 cents a pound difference between cat food and bologna, will really be worth it to him... 00:25, 5 February 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by AnonMoos (talk • contribs)

Note that public relations people at dog food companies always make a point of eating their companies' products in front of the camera to prove how good they are. This has given rise to the expression "eating one's own dog food," meaning to use a company's own product internally. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:51, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Note to self. Never take a public relations job at a dog food company. Seriously though go with Marco polo’s suggestion. Eating a lot of canned tuna probably isn’t that good for you either since its mercury content is now very high. (Then again starving to death isn’t good for you either so do what you have to.) --S.dedalus (talk) 01:48, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

If I were on the countryside and in your situation I would search for trees, cultivated fields and 'take' there something to eat. In a city I would try institutions like Caritas, monasteries, etc. Consider also that chains like McDonald's or supermaket throw tones of almost caducated food away. I would also try to get some of these.217.168.3.246 (talk) 01:53, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

I just want to point out that according to the dogfood-eating article, they didn't eat it themselves but rather fed it to their own dogs. In Microsoft's case, the dogs are presumably the computers. -- BenRG (talk) 03:07, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

I don't know where Microsoft got the phrase from or if the Wikipedia article is accurate. It is, however, true that at least some PR people for dog-food companies will eat their products. Jeanne Moos did a story on the practice, and I've seen pictures of a local dog-food maker eating her product in my local paper. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 03:48, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Yuck! I guess that answers the question. . . --S.dedalus (talk) 05:41, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Sometime in the last 10 years (sorry can't be more specific than that) there was a national news story here in the UK where a couple had been eating dog food for a while without realising it. The labelling on the can was of the "a hearty meal of meaty chunks in gravy" affair that didn't explicitly mention feeding to pets only and had a picture on the front of said product served on a plate. It made the national news for a fair while and resulted in tighter labelling laws, but I can't seem to find a google hit for it. The only related stories I can find are all from The Sun so must be taken with a fair pinch of salt, these include - Artic Explorer using high energy Dog food and that Pet food is more healthy to eat than Fast food. 86.21.74.40 (talk) 10:29, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

You should look into Freeganism; at least they eat people food. --Milkbreath (talk) 13:44, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

If you eat dog food and a doctor has to so much as look your way, you'll wipe out any savings you may have suffered through. Dog food components imported from China famously came with a lot of plastic in them, but I imagine it's not much better when they're toeing the line, rather than inching across it. Stick with beans and rice. --Sean 20:44, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Historical price data for retail automobiles

I know this must be somewhere on the internet, but I've not yet typed in the magical combination of Google terms to find it. Where can I find a chart of average/typical retail automobile prices (preferably inflation-adjusted) from 1900/1910 or thereabouts to the present (or within the last few years, anyway)?—Chowbok ☠ 22:52, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

February 5

How do you get over the idea that online dating is weird and pathetic?

Mr.K. (talk) 01:16, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

I tend to think at online dating as a better form of brokering than offline dating. At the end you just find the same partner you would, if you kept trying offline. It is only more efficient, similarly as online trading is more efficient than other forms of trading.217.168.3.246 (talk) 01:47, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

You can get over it by finding your perfect Ms or Mr Right online. It worked for me. Mind you, if you never find such a person online, you might still feel like you're being weird and pathetic by trying. In that case, just put it down to experience, go out for a walk in the fresh air, smile at the first person you see, and wait for what happens next.  :) -- JackofOz (talk) 12:37, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Need info on St. Mary's Church of the Assumption in Wilkes-Barre,PA

Need info on finding history re: abve mentioned churh. It started as a Russian Orthadox church and then changed to Byzantine (Greek?) Catholic. It's celebrating it's 100th anniversary. Location is North Main Street in the city of Wilkes-Barre, PA. Any help would be appreciated! Also had a school thru 8th grade that close a few years ago. Thanks1to3lat4ever (talk) 07:09, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Extreme elements photographers in the 70s

I would like to find some information on a pair of photographers that were husband and wife. I do not know their names. I know that I believe they did their major work in the 1970s. The husband would expose himself to extreme elements for several days and the wife would take one single picture at the end of the period. I was told that the husband died after one of them while he subjected himself to being in a swamp up to his nose and he only let his mouth come above the swamp to eat when his wife brought food. Thank you for any help.

Aviaries (talk) 08:58, 5 February 2008 (UTC)Aviaries

I tried using extreme photographers 1970s but nothing, sorry. Somebody will come along, in the meantime this looks like a candidate for the Darwin Awards... Julia Rossi (talk) 10:59, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

You may want to slog your way through List of photographers. I'd suggest starting with the "art" entries. Bovlb (talk) 18:36, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

These aren't the folks you're looking for, but they rhyme. --Sean 20:47, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Do people get reimbursed for a travel expenses going to a job interview in Switzerland?

Would someone get reimbursed for travel expenses for going to a job interview in Zurich? How do you know (wikipedia page, web site, etc)? What is the procedure.

Thank you!

Should we assume that you are not in Switzerland? Dismas|^(talk) 11:44, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

that's right...

It will vary from potential-employer to potential-employer. There's no resource, beyond the HR department of the potential-employer in your specific case, that you can ask. --Tagishsimon (talk) 11:50, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

How do you know? Can you link to a web site where you saw that? Thank you!

As per Sherlock Holmes modus operandi: dismiss the impossible & consider the improbable. I'm doing your homework for you, am I not? (Alternative answer: experience & common sense. In the absence of a Swiss law requiring firms to offer travel expenses - most unlikely - the decision rests with the company.) --Tagishsimon (talk) 13:14, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

it's not my homework, though I'm very curious... I wouldn't like just a 'hunch' though -- personal experience is good too!

Depends on how much they want to hire you.—Chowbok ☠ 19:50, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Links between language and reality

I would like to read more about the correspondance between language and reality. What are the current main theories or schools of thoughts and opinions on the subject? Is there a name for this field of studies (is it simply language philosophy)? I guess most theories would fall into big categories such as the logic, empiric, idealist, what are the current dominant ones and their contenders? Thank you Keria (talk) 10:58, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

It's normally (in the analytic tradition at least) called the philosophy of language. That page seems to have quite a lot of information. Algebraist 13:12, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Cancelling postal orders

If I post an order off to someone, and it gets lost, can I cancel it? Porcupine (prickle me! · contribs · status) 12:24, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

This article states that you can have the payee's name printed on postal orders nowadays. If you do that, it shouldn't matter if it gets lost, since it won't be usable by anyone except the payee. If you don't... I'm not sure. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 13:07, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

That's too simplistic an answer. Don't you pay for money orders up front? If so, a lost and uncashed order would be a gift to the post office. Even if not, the questioner may want to cancel the order before replacing it if he doesn't have 100% faith that the loss of the original order was honestly reported. APL (talk) 14:14, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

History of data

I am writing up a report about how much IT has made an impact on the world, but I want to open it up with the means people used to transfer data before the age of computers, such as printed manuscripts and such. I will write about the history of the Internet and computers but it's just the age before computers I'm having trouble understanding.

Would anyone be willing to help me out here? Thanks in advance. Druss666uk (talk) 12:45, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Can you be more specific about what you're having trouble with? Obviously you know of manuscripts, books, and the like, so it's not clear what assistance you're asking for. Also, I would make sure to note the impact of technologies such as the telegraph. — Lomn 14:44, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

I would treat the history of information technology as being at least three different strains of development, which I will here just call replication, transmission, and data.

• Replication: You might start off with Johannes Gutenberg and the history of the printing press. What made the press so revolutionary in the Western world is not just that it allowed mass communication (which it did), but it allowed mass replication as well—you, the author, could be reasonably sure that people would be reading whatever you want in exactly the form you meant it (high fidelity, so to speak). Compare that with any pre-press transmittal of information, where you had to rely on the copyist not making errors, or making "corrections" in some cases, or not mis-understanding the thing to be copied in question. Mass printing—cheap printing—took off in the 19th century primarily. The rise of the newspaper, the magazine, the gossip column. Literacy climbs. Printing costs plummet. Suddenly a market opens up for an educated public. Would Darwin have been as socially important had his book not become a popular sensation? Perhaps not—it certainly wouldn't have been discussed the way it was, in so many different circles.
• Transmission: Both the technology of getting information from here-to-there, but also the availability of a market to want to receive the information in the first place. The telegraph and the radio are of course topics to be discussed here, as they allow syndication of information across continents. But don't omit the simple things like a reliable postal service—the British postal service in the 19th century was a thing to be reckoned with—which allowed people to create networks across continents, albeit much slower ones than we are used to.
• Data: Statistics, as the name implies, was originally the "science of the state", and really took off in the 18th and 19th centuries as a way of understanding the populations of various countries and understanding the best ways to govern them. Various methods were adopted to acquire massive amounts of data and to make it useful and accessible. Emblematic of this might be Bertillonage—a system (of using data about criminals) to allow law enforcement to quickly determine whether or not a piece of data was or was not already in a massive database. Running further down the line, it is easy to see how something like this eventually ends up in the massive punch-card machines created by International Business Machines for the state census at the turn of the 20th century.

Anyway, just some food for thought, some blue-skying from someone who likes to try and break things down into major themes as an easy mode of organization, as something that helps sharpen the analysis and keep it from being a progressive this-invention-to-that-invention sort of thing. --24.147.69.31 (talk) 16:09, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Big subject. We can for the time being only chip away at the edge. To the above I'm going to pitch in with carbon paper & Carbon copy, and typing pool (oddly, an article not yet started). But that would only help for the period since the use of the typewriter. Before that, you'd have to consider the legions of clerks who kept things ticking over, and the postal service. It would help us if you could articulate what problems you are having with the pre-computer age. --Tagishsimon (talk) 16:27, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Microfilm, microfiche and related technologies deserve a mention. Gandalf61 (talk) 16:29, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

My favorite: a series of tubes. --Sean 20:52, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Ethics

what are the humanistic ethics for rhetoric? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.201.253.222 (talk) 13:08, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Schopenauer and free will

I working may way (slowly) through the philosopy of Arthur Schopenhauer, and am having not a few difficulties. I'm still a more than a little baffled by the concept of Will, which seems to be nothing but a blind force. Is there anything in his work that can be equated with the Christian notion of free will?Sophie Sophist (talk) 13:11, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Location of archives of Gerald Abrahams

Can any user please tell me where the archives of Gerald Abrahams (1907 - 1980), the chess player, author and barrister, are located? Thank you. Simonschaim (talk) 13:51, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

See all this in Google "Gerald Abrahams" --Johnluckie (talk) 15:27, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

photographer - mass naked people

Who is the artist who has several times persuaded hundreds of naked people to traipse around their various home cities, photographing them en masse? BrainyBabe (talk) 14:38, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Spencer Tunick, I believe. -- JackofOz (talk) 14:42, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Rap music, M to the C

What does it mean when a rap musician sings, eg. M to the C to the 3 of the Z (fictional lyrics, you get the idea)? 81.93.102.185 (talk) 19:40, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Usually they are spelling something. Izzo (H.O.V.A.) is one real example. When Jay-Z says "H to the Izz-O, V to the Izz-A" he is spelling "HOVA" (and using -izzle as an infix). Recury (talk) 20:17, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

They are usually spelling their stage-name in rhyme/lyrically...So Jay-z (who seems to also be known as HOVA) sings "H to the izz-O, V to the izz-A" - essentially spelling out his nickname. ny156uk (talk) 20:18, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

The central topic of hip hop subject matter is what the singer's name is and whether he got something to say, which is challenging to stretch out to a 4 minute track, so it helps to pad it by spelling out the lyrics. --Sean 20:58, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Multinational Force and Observers (MFO) in Egypt—Current Deployed U.S. Forces?

At Multinational_Force_and_Observers#States_involved, the current forces deployed from the U.S. as part of the MFO are identified as Puerto Rican NG units. I was under the impression that the group deployed there right now is in fact Pennsylvania NG. Anyone know a good way to find whether or not that is the case, along with information as to their groupings with a similar level of detail to what's currently in the article? Jouster  (whisper) 21:04, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Orwell and Trotsky

George Orwell served in the Trotskyite POUM during the Spanish Civil War. I assume this was a reflection of his politics, but have been unable to establish this for certain. Can anyone please confirm that he supported Trotsky? Some direct references would be helpful. Thank you very much. 217.43.9.102 (talk) 21:15, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

George Orwell#Political views would be a good place to start. --Tagishsimon (talk) 21:38, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Italian heraldic question

I have come across an Italian crest which is surmounted by a crown with 5 balls (which would indicate a Baron in England). What does this mean under Italian heraldic rules please? It seems to be the crest of Francesco Ognibene of Palermo. It could be described as a lion on its hind legs facing right and holding fleur-de-lys (or 3 feathers) in its right paw. Maybe there is a better place for me to ask this. Thank you in advance. CarbonLifeForm (talk) 21:28, 5 February 2008 (UTC)