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{{Infobox musical artist <!-- See Wikipedia:WikiProject Musicians -->
{{talkheader}} chad johnson sucks BALLS go suck it!!!!!!!!!!!
|Name = Dee Snider
|Img = Dee Snider on stage.jpg
|Background = solo_singer
|Birth_name = David Daniel "Dee" Snider
|Born = {{birth date and age|1955|3|15}}<br>[[Massapequa, New York]]
|Died =
|Genre = [[Heavy metal music|Heavy metal]]<br>[[Glam metal]]<br>[[Shock rock]]
|Instrument = [[Singer|Vocals]]
|Years_active = 1974–Present
|Occupation = [[Musician]], [[Songwriter]], [[Actor]], [[Radio DJ]]
|Associated_acts = [[Twisted Sister]]<br>[[Desperado (heavy metal group)|Desperado]]<br>Widowmaker<br>S.M.F.'s (Sick Mother Fuckers)
|URL = http://www.deesnider.com<br>http://www.twistedsister.com
}}


'''Daniel Dee Snider''' (born [[March 15]] [[1955]]) is an [[United States of America|American]] [[musician]], [[DJ|radio personality]], and [[actor]]. Snider is most famous for his role as the frontman of the American [[heavy metal]] [[band (music)|band]] [[Twisted Sister]].
{{WikiProjectBannerShell|1=
{{WPBiography|living=yes|class=c|priority=Mid|sports-work-group=yes|listas=Johnson, Chad|nested=yes}}
{{WikiProject Oregon|nested=yes|class=C|importance=Low}}
{{WikiProject College football|class=c|importance=mid|nested=yes}}
{{NFLproject|class=c|nested=yes}}
|blp=yes}}
==TRADE TO NEW ENGLAND==
I work in the front office with the New England Patriots, I can confirm this information is true add it to Chad's profile.


==Life==
On [[March 2]], [[2008]], Rumors were amid that infact the [[New England Patriots]] were not instrested in brining back [[Randy Moss]] because they were engaged in trade talks with the [[Cincinnati Bengals]] about a trade for [[Chad Ocho Cinco]]. The early reports from the AP say the Pats will give up a 2nd and 3rd round pick from this upcoming draft and a 2nd round pick in 09' to aquire the disgruntled Ocho Cinco.
Born in [[Massapequa, New York]], on [[Long Island]], Snider grew up in nearby [[Baldwin, Nassau County, New York|Baldwin]], and graduated from Baldwin High School in 1972.<ref>[http://www.newsday.com/community/guide/lihistory/ny-starring_li_pop,0,1403302.story?coll=ny-lihistory-navigation Sounding Off in Suburbia]</ref> As a child he sang in a church choir, several school choruses, and Baldwin HS Concert Choir. He also was selected for the All State Chorus by singing.<ref>http://www.newsday.com/community/guide/lihistory/ny-hometown_dee,0,3912071.story?coll=ny-lihistory-navigation Dee Snider: 'I went for an outrageous form of expressing myself.']</ref>
:When you can provide a '''reliable source''' then you can add it. '''''[[User:RC-0722|<font color="#CC5500">RC-0722</font>]] <sup>[[User talk:RC-0722|<font color="blue">communicator</font>]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contributions/RC-0722|<font color="red">kills</font>]]</sub>''''' 00:25, 3 March 2008 (UTC)


==Career==
::If you were in the Pats' front office and reported it here before it was official you'd be fired and the team would face tampering charges. Come on man! I know my comments are 5 months late, but it seemed too funny to pass on. --[[User:FourteenClowns|FourteenClowns]] ([[User talk:FourteenClowns|talk]]) 04:26, 30 August 2008 (UTC)


{{subsections}}
== Celebrations ==
{{proseline}}
Since there's a section devoted to the riverdance jig thing why not expand it to include all of his more famous celebrations? {{unsigned|Bvde}}
In 1979 Snider changed several rock bands, and in early 1976 he joined the recently formed Twisted Sister and became the only song writer of the band thereafter.


On MTV in the 80's before [[Headbanger's Ball]], the first Heavy Metal show to feature all metal videos was called Heavy Metal Mania. The first show aired in June 1985. Metal Mania was hosted by Dee Snider and featured metal news, interviews with metal artists, in studio co-hosts, etc..
One thing for certain is that it is unreadable.


In the late 1980s, after Twisted Sister was disbanded, he formed [[Desperado (band)]], a band featuring ex-[[Iron Maiden (band)|Iron Maiden]] drummer [[Clive Burr]], ex-[[Gillan]] guitarist [[Bernie Torme]], and bassist Marc Russel. The group's only album ''Ace'' has never been officially released but was heavily [[Bootleg recording|bootlegged]] on CD (under the title ''Bloodied But Unbowed'').
==Coach Lewis' List==
[[Image:Dee Snider.jpg|200px|thumb|right|Dee Snider (on right)]]
I don't think this should be featured in the beginning of the article as a summary of the person. Maybe lower in the article. [[User:Perry8331|Perry]] 22:06, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
In 1985, a Senate hearing was instigated by the [[Parents Music Resource Center]] (PMRC), who wanted to introduce a parental warning system that would label all albums containing offensive material. The system was to include letters identifying the type of objectionable content to be found in each album (e.g. O for occult themes, S for sex, D for drugs, V for violence, etc). Dee Snider, [[John Denver]], and [[Frank Zappa]] all testified against [[censorship]] and the proposed warning system. Such a system was never implemented, but the result of the trial brought about what is now the generic "Parental Advisory: Explicit Content" label. The PMRC was initially formed by the wives of Washington DC power brokers Al Gore (D-TN, Senate) and Secretary of State James Baker. Tipper Gore in particular became the face of the PMRC and a public foil for Dee in the hearings. Ironically, in the 2000 presidential election cycle, Snider endorsed Vice President Gore for office. Public statements at the time (as noted in a July 2000 Reason article) have Dee justifying the decision based on Gore's environmental stance; however, other comments attributed to Dee quote him as saying he was backing the obvious winner{{Fact|date=October 2008}}.


In the 1990s, he formed '''Widowmaker''', with Joe Franco (good friend to Twisted Sister, and drummed on the [[Love Is For Suckers]] album), [[Al Pitrelli]], and Marc Russel. They recorded two albums with limited underground success, titled Blood and Bullets, and Standby For Pain.
==Justification for purging==
Need I justify my actions? ;) The article was tagged for Clean Up for its grotesque presentation and unilateral juxtaposition of random facts. ;) If one feels the facts pertaining to Johnson's flamboyant actions over his career should really belong in the article; consider re-polishing it and re-adding each entry in bullet point format. Personally, Show-Boating part of the article makes the article seem like it's from a fansite - as opposed to a Wikipedia Entry.


In the late 1990s, he toured with a "self-tribute" band called '''Dee Snider's SMFs''' (Sick Mother Fuckers), sometimes featuring ex-Twisted Sister drummer [[A.J. Pero]]. The usual line up included Dee Snider, Derek Tailer, Charlie Mills, [[Keith Alexander (guitarist)|Keith Alexander]], and Spike.
Oh Yes, the Quotes section of the article should be moved to WikiQuote --[[User:ShadowJester07|ShadowJester07]] 01:48, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
:I agree with moving the quotes to WikiQuote. And I agree that much of the stuff was certainly editable, but I don't think we should delete almost all of what is there until it is in the ideal format of a Wikipedia page. Perhaps leave what is there and slowly transmute it to what it should look like and add cite requests where applicable. [[User:VegaDark|VegaDark]] 02:26, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
::I removed the trivia section for a reason. It is frowned upon for featured articles to have. While this obviously isn't a featured article, that is the ultimate goal for all articles and it should be removed again and the info should be added to the body of the article as I had originally done. Also, you removed the following without explanation: ''"Having been named to four consecutive Pro Bowls, Chad is widely considered to be one of the best wide receivers in the NFL."'' This is not opinion, this is fact. Being named to the most recent Pro Bowl, let alone the last 4, inherently means you are widely considered to be one the best wide receivers in the NFL. [[User:VegaDark|VegaDark]] 21:33, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
:::Randy Moss was named to five Pro Bowls ;-) I give him Kudos for the biggest disappearing act in NFL history during '05 Season. [[Nathan Vasher]] recorded a plethora interceptions, complimented by a stellar defensive performance during his '04 season, because of his teammates' horrific. Pro Bowl appearances are just a matter of popularity and ''razzle dazzel''. However, the fact that he has lead the AFC in Rec. Yards for the past three years is something. While adding the sentence might lead to a whole pandora's box of latter controversy, let's just leave it out until he retires. :-p --[[User:ShadowJester07|ShadowJester07]] 01:29, 16 August 2006 (UTC)


In 1998, he penned a song entitled "[[The Magic of Christmas Day (God Bless Us Everyone)]]", later to be recorded by [[Celine Dion]] to her album [[These Are Special Times]] - according to Snider, Dion at the time was not aware of who wrote the song. Later that year, he also wrote and starred in the [[horror film]] ''[[Strangeland]]''. He has also penned the script to a sequel which has the working title of [[Strangeland 2: Cult of Personality]]. As of January 2008, however, Snider was less than optimistic that it would ever see the light of day, saying in an interview with Bullz-Eye.com that he had reached a point where he should "put a sign on my website that says, 'Y’got ten million dollars? Give me a call. I’ve got the script ready to go, Robert Englund’s attached, I’m attached. If somebody’s serious and wants to make it, call me. But don’t call me ‘til you’re ready to hand the check over.'”
== Picture ==


From June 1999 to August 2002, he hosted a morning radio show on a [[Hartford, Connecticut]] [[Clear Channel Communications|Clear Channel]] station, Radio 104 (104.1 FM [[WMRQ]]), called Dee Snider Radio. His show returned to the air at night in August 2004 on 93.3 [[WMMR]] in [[Philadelphia]], [[Pennsylvania]] until June 2005. He fondly referred to his listeners as his "Peeps", and "DEE" euro stickers, printed by the station, could be seen on the bumpers of his fans' cars throughout [[Connecticut]], [[New York]], and [[Massachusetts]]. Other members of the morning show included Nick Lentino, Beth Lockwood, "Psycho Dan" Williams, Sean Robbins, and "Darkside Dave" Wallace. He frequently featured high-profile guests, including his friend and [[kiss (band)|KISS]] singer/bassist [[Gene Simmons]].
We need to add a picture of chad to the article. [[User:DvdBengals|DvdBengals]] 18:09, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
:Good Luck finding a fair use image. --[[User:ShadowJester07|ShadowJester07]] 22:21, 31 October 2006 (UTC)


In 2001 he was the voice of Gol Acheron, the main villain for the [[PlayStation 2]] videogame ''[[Jak and Daxter: The Precursor Legacy]]''.
== Relation to Samari Rolle ==


In 2002 he rejoined with the reunited Twisted Sister.
According to other pages, it's Keyshawn Johnson that is cousin to Samari Rolle, not Chad Johnson. Anyone have verification? [[User:TheGoogler|TheGoogler]] 02:48, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
Keyshawn and Chad Johnson ARE cousins, and Keyshawn Johnson IS Samari Rolle's cousin. They're all cousins. http://www.bengals.com/team/player.asp?player_id=8 that's official, on the Bengals website. I'm so proud of myself for checking a fact.--[[User:DavidFuzznut|DavidFuzznut]] 12:15, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
I noticed it said this was incorrectly stated on the Bengals media guide just now, so here is an article with quotes from both of them that should confirm their relationship http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/newssun/sports/102846,5_2_WA19_NFLBRIEFS_S1.article--[[User:DavidFuzznut|DavidFuzznut]] 12:20, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
:On [[Samari Rolle|Samari Rolle's]] page it says they're both Samari's cousins. [[User:Quadzilla99|Quadzilla99]] 03:49, 27 January 2007 (UTC)


Snider played himself in the 2002 TV-movie ''[[Warning: Parental Advisory]]''.
== Cousins.. ==


In 2003 he appeared with actor [[Arnold Schwarzenegger]], during his drive to recall incumbent [[California]] Governor [[Gray Davis]].
In the game the bengals played against carolina, Keyshawn said that they weren't really cousins. He said that everybody was thinking they were cousins because of their last names, so they just went with it.
Snider sang the [[Twisted Sister]] hit, "[[We're Not Gonna Take It (Twisted Sister)|We're Not Gonna Take It]]," which was adopted by the Schwarzenegger campaign.
Every Year since 2004 Dee has narrated a live show known as [http://www.vanhelsingscurse.com Van Helsing's Curse] which tours the US around Halloween giving a mix of famous music with dark overtones and an occasional part of a storytelling to accompany the music. The concert has also been released on CD.


[[Image:Dee-snider-on-his-chopper.jpg|thumb|right|Dee Snider at the 2005 [[Sturgis Motorcycle Rally]]]]
Agreed, that would require a firm factual basis to make inclusion in this article, removing until someone gets a source. (and that will be a while).
Snider currently lives part-time in [[Setauket-East Setauket, New York|East Setauket, New York]].


Snider is also a narrator for many shows and specials on [[VH1]], movie trailers, behind the scenes segments and DVDs special features.
someone should remove the "chad Johnson is the shit yaaaaaa" from the main part. I don't seem to know how.
[[User:139.142.48.152|139.142.48.152]] 04:29, 5 December 2006 (UTC)


Snider was featured as the 'voice' in the bumpers for [[MSNBC]]'s 2001/2002 "Fiercely Independent" branding campaign.
:They're second cousins I'm pretty sure Keyshawn is Samari Rolle's cousin. Incidentally showing Chad handling a firearm isn't going to help the Bengals image lol. [[User:Quadzilla99|Quadzilla99]] 20:51, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
THEY ARE NOT COUSINS!!
:His official website in the "personal bio" section says he is cousins with both. We can't get much more of a reliable source than that. [[User:VegaDark|VegaDark]] ([[User talk:VegaDark|talk]]) 22:20, 27 February 2008 (UTC)


Snider returned to radio in June 2006 with [[Fangoria (magazine)|Fangoria]] Radio on [[Sirius Satellite Radio]] channel 102 from 9-12 Eastern.
== Citing Sources? ==


Twisted Sister was inducted into the [[Long Island Music Hall of Fame]] in 2006.
Where's the proof that Chad "it is well known that he calls his girlfriend between quarters?"
Website? ESPN?
[[User:Specter01010|Specter01010]] 03:04, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
:It's likely a falsehood. --[[User:ShadowJester07|ShadowJester07]] 03:14, 8 December 2006 (UTC)


In conjunction with the 30th anniversary of [[Star Wars]] in 2007, Snider was interviewed by [[Maul Stanley]] about his appreciation of the original [[Star Wars]] trilogy. At which time, he claimed that his favorite character was "a toss-up between handsome [[Luke Skywalker]] and ugly [[Luke Skywalker]]," referencing the difference in appearance of actor [[Mark Hamill]] between the first and second films, due to his reconstructive facial surgery after a near-fatal car accident.<ref>{{cite web | url=http://www.maulstanley.com/interviews/snider.htm | title=Maul Stanley Talks Star Wars with Dee Snider | publisher=MaulStanley.com | accessdate=2008-09-23}}</ref>
== Chad Johnson's NFL.com bio says he was born in LA, not Miami ==


During winter of 2008, Snider was featured as a contestant on [[CMT]]'s ''[[Gone Country (television series)|Gone Country]]''.
Not to be picky, but if Chad Johnson's profile on NFL.com is correct, then he was born in Los Angeles, Calif.[[User:68.248.40.254|68.248.40.254]] 12:26, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
The show recruited famous musical celebrities, who competed against each other to win a chance to release a country song.


Dee hosts "DEAD ART" on [[Gallery HD]], a show about the beauty and art of cemeteries.
He wasn't. The NFL page is wrong, he talks a lot about MIA and how he was born and raised there. <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Splintersag|Splintersag]] ([[User talk:Splintersag|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Splintersag|contribs]]) 03:26, 30 August 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->


==The House of Hair (radio show)==
==Disambiguation==
Since 1997, Dee Snider has hosted the [[House of Hair]], a syndicated heavy metal/hair band flashback show that airs on over 200 radio stations across North America. It is syndicated by the [[United Stations Radio Networks]]. The show's format runs two hours and features Snider's closing catchphrase, "If it ain't metal, it's crap!"
Recently, a user moved this page to "Chad Johnson (wide receiver)" because of the article "Chad Johnson (cornerback". However, I think this page should remain at "Chad Johnson", and this is why: the Bengals receiver is by far the MUCH more notable football player - he's a four-time Pro Bowler and arguably one of the best receivers in the game. The cornerback is an undrafted free agent who was on the Vikings but is now a free agent. 99.9% of NFL fans have no idea who he is.


==Personal life==
Because of this, I feel it is fine to leave this Chad Johnson as plain old [[Chad Johnson]]. Compare it to the aritlce [[Chicago]]. There are other uses for the word, such as [[Chicago (2002 film)]] but since the Illinois city is the most notable at all, it is located at simply "Chicago". I believe moving this page to "Chad Johnson (wide receiver)" would be like moving [[Chicago]] to "Chicago (U.S. city)."►'''[[User:Chrisjnelson|<span style="color: #005e6a">Chris </span><span style="color: #DF6108">Nelson</span>]]'''<sup>''[[User talk:Chrisjnelson|Holla!]]''</sup> 03:42, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
Snider has been married to his wife Suzette, a costume designer, since 1981. They have 4 children, [[Jesse Snider|Jesse]], [[Shane Snider|Shane]], Cody, and Cheyenne. His son Jesse hosted ''[[List of programs broadcast by MTV2#Music video series|MTV2 Rock]]'', a [[music video]] countdown program in 2003, and was the runner-up in MTV's 2008 show [[Rock the Cradle]]. Dee Snider appeared on [[Rock the Cradle]] as Jesse's mentor. Jesse is also the lead singer of the Rock/Punk/Metal band [[Baptized By Fire (aka BXF)]]. Snider is a personal friend of [[professional wrestling|professional wrestler]] [[Mick Foley]]. Snider appeared on the [[MTV]] show [[MTV Cribs]] to show his [[New York]] home, along with two of his four children, Shane and Cheyenne. Shane was playing the drums and Cheyenne was listening to Twisted Sister's song "[[I Wanna Rock]]". In 2003, Suzette's brother, Vincent Gargiulo, was murdered for allegedly threatening to turn in an armored car robbery ring.<ref>http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1110ap_gym_owner_homicides.html</ref>


==Projects==
:I actually was considering this when I made the move. I suppose that since Chad Johsnon, the wide receiver for the Bengals, is the most popular one, doing a page move now would cause a bunch of soft redirects, which I'm sure nobody would want to resolve. Keep it the way it was before I moved it. '''[[User:Ksy92003|Ksy92003]]'''<small>[[User talk:Ksy92003|<font color="black">(talk)</font>]]</small> 03:50, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
===Bands===
*[[Twisted Sister]]
*[[Desperado (heavy metal group)|Desperado]]
*[[Widowmaker (Dee Snider band)|Widowmaker]]
*[[S.M.F.]]'s (Sick Mutha Fuckers)
*[[Bent Brother]] (heavy metal group)


===Books===
Chad Johnson should direct here, he is way more none than the other Chad Johnsons--[[User:Yankees10|Yankees10]] 02:30, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
*''[[Dee Snider's Teenage Survival Guide]]'', [[Doubleday (publisher)|Doubleday]], 1987 - available in hardcover & softcover
*''[[The Hardcore Diaries By Mick Foley]]'', although he did not write the book Snider has a chapter dedicated to him entitled "Uncle Dee".
*''[[Rock & Roll War Stories]]'', [[Pitbull Publishing LLC]], a chapter is dedicated to a hilarious anecdote Dee Snider told musician/author [[Gordon G.G. Gebert]] on Dee's House of Hair Radio show. The story inspired Gebert to write his third book.


===Solo albums===
== trade with dolphins ==
''[[Never Let the Bastards Wear You Down]]'', 2000


===Guest appearances===
I heard somewhere that chad might possibly be traded to the dolphins...any truth in this because if it is true then we need to add something about it[[User:BLUEballsBOY|BLUEballsBOY]] ([[User talk:BLUEballsBOY|talk]]) 18:12, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
*"[[Go to Hell (song)|Go to Hell]]" on ''[[Humanary Stew]]: A [[Tribute]] To [[Alice Cooper]]'', 1999
*"[[Go to Hell (song)|Go to Hell]]" on ''[[Welcome to My Nightmare]]: A [[All Star Tribute]] To Alice Cooper'', 1999
*"[[Eleanor Rigby]]" on [[Eddie Ojeda's Axes 2 Axes]], 2005
*"[[Wasted Years]]" on ''[[Numbers From the Beast]]'': An All Star Tribute to [[Iron Maiden]]'', 2005
*"[[SCG3 Special Report]]" on ''[[Lordi]]: The Arockalypse'', 2006
*"[[Detroit Rock City (song)|Detroit Rock City]]" on ''[[Spin The Bottle (KISS tribute album)|Spin The Bottle]]: An All-Star Tribute To [[Kiss (band)|KISS]]'', 2004
*"[[Howard Stern]]" on [[Sirius]], 2007
*"[[Saigon Suicide Show]]"; an [[episode]] of the [[television]] show "[[The Upright Citizens Brigade]]", 1998
*"[[Handlebar]]"; an [[episode]] of the [[television]] show "[[Kitchen Nightmares]]", 2008
*"[[Episode #1.7]]"; an [[episode]] of the [[television]] show "Z Rock ([[ZO2]])", 2008


== Birth Place ==
===Filmography===
*[[Pee-wee's Big Adventure]] (1985) - cameo appearance on top of a car hood singing "Burn in Hell"
*[[Private Parts]] (1997) - cameo appearance in the opening scene
*[[Strangeland]] (1998)
*[[Van Helsing's Curse]] (2004)
*[[Kiss Loves You]] (2004)
*[[Metal: A Headbangers Journey]] (2005)


==External links==
I have a collection of OCHO CINCO cards and im pretty certain his birthplace is not in Florida[[User:BLUEballsBOY|BLUEballsBOY]] ([[User talk:BLUEballsBOY|talk]]) 18:14, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
*[http://www.deesnider.com Dee Snider.com - Official website]
:His website lists his hometown as Miami, Florida. While that does not necessarily equal birthplace, we have no sources to determine otherwise. If you find one, feel free to cite it and change appropriately. [[User:VegaDark|VegaDark]] ([[User talk:VegaDark|talk]]) 22:20, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
*[http://houseofhaironline.com/ HouseOfHairOnline.com - Official House of Hair website]
*{{imdb_name|id=0811124|name=Dee Snider}}
*[http://www.tabletmag.com/92/music/92_dee_snider.shtml 2004 interview]
*[http://www.vondutchkustomcycles.com/dee-snider-sturgis2005.html Dee Snider with Von Dutch Kustom Cycles] &mdash; Dee Snider hanging out with Von Dutch.
*[http://www.vh1.com/shows/dyn/meet_the_family/90881/episode.jhtml Meet the Snider Family on VH1]- Official VH1 Site
*[http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1452351/02152002/snider_dee.jhtml MTV News Dee Snider] - Yep, That's Twisted Sister's Dee Snider You Hear On MSNBC 02.19.2002
*[http://www.mtv.com/ontv/dyn/cribs/episode/episode.jhtml?episodeId=88503#/ontv/dyn/cribs/episode/summary.jhtml?episodeId=88503 MTV Cribs with Dee Snider and his home]- Official MTV Site
*[http://penn.freefm.com/episode_download.php?contentType=36&contentId=149900 Penn Jillette Interviews Dee Snider, Oct 2006]- Penn Jillette Radio
*[http://www.hardradio.com/shockwaves/twisted1.html HardRadio.com interview with Dee Snider]


== References ==
::NFL.com says Los Angeles. Given the fact that he grew up in Miami, what has likely happened is that he was born in L.A. but his hometown has been described as Miami, and that's gotten mistakenly represented as his birth place.►'''[[User:Chrisjnelson|<span style="color: #005e6a">Chris </span><span style="color: #DF6108">Nelson</span>]]'''<sup>''[[User talk:Chrisjnelson|Holla!]]''</sup> 22:38, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
{{reflist}}


{{Twisted Sister}}
Should his birth place be changed then since, in fact, he was not born in Miami?[[User:BLUEballsBOY|BLUEballsBOY]] ([[User talk:BLUEballsBOY|talk]]) 13:39, 28 February 2008 (UTC)


[[Category:1955 births|Snider, Dee]]
:Well the problem is, because Miami has been mistakenly passed around as his birthplace, both locations can be "sourced" as his birthplace.►'''[[User:Chrisjnelson|<span style="color: #005e6a">Chris </span><span style="color: #DF6108">Nelson</span>]]'''<sup>''[[User talk:Chrisjnelson|Holla!]]''</sup> 16:19, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
[[Category:Living people|Snider, Dee]]
::Personally, I would think it was LA cuz he went to oregon state. '''''[[User:RC-0722|<font color="#CC5500">RC-0722</font>]] <sup>[[User talk:RC-0722|<font color="blue">communicator</font>]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contributions/RC-0722|<font color="red">kills</font>]]</sub>''''' 17:25, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
[[Category:American Episcopalians|Snider, Dee]]
[[Category:American male singers|Snider, Dee]]
[[Category:American heavy metal singers|Snider, Dee]]
[[Category:People from Long Island|Snider, Dee]]
[[Category:Twisted Sister members|Snider, Dee]]
[[Category:People from Nassau County, New York|Snider, Dee]]
[[Category:New York musicians|Snider]]
[[Category:People from Town of Hempstead, New York|Snider, Dee]]


[[cs:Dee Snider]]
:::Completely irrelevant... he was still raised in Miami so that means jack.►'''[[User:Chrisjnelson|<span style="color: #005e6a">Chris </span><span style="color: #DF6108">Nelson</span>]]'''<sup>''[[User talk:Chrisjnelson|Holla!]]''</sup> 17:27, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
[[de:Dee Snider]]
::::Technically, a "hometown" doesn't have to be where you were born. So he could have been born in LA and moved to miami. Nelson, my other post was relevant. Your just not thinking fourth dimensionally. '''''[[User:RC-0722|<font color="#CC5500">RC-0722</font>]] <sup>[[User talk:RC-0722|<font color="blue">communicator</font>]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contributions/RC-0722|<font color="red">kills</font>]]</sub>''''' 17:32, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
[[es:Dee Snider]]

[[fr:Dee Snider]]
:::::Thanks Doc Brown.►'''[[User:Chrisjnelson|<span style="color: #005e6a">Chris </span><span style="color: #DF6108">Nelson</span>]]'''<sup>''[[User talk:Chrisjnelson|Holla!]]''</sup> 17:36, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
[[it:Dee Snider]]

[[nl:Dee Snider]]
== Ocho Cinco rumor ==
[[no:Dee Snider]]

[[pl:Dee Snider]]
There is a rumor in the sports blogging world that Chad Johnson has taken steps to legally change his last name to Ocho Cinco. Should such rumors pan out, it can be inserted into the article. Until then, it is just speculation that does not meet [[WP:RS]]. [[User:Keegan|<font color="maroon">Keegan</font>]]<sup><small>[[User talk:Keegan|<font color="gray">talk</font>]]</small></sup> 06:13, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
[[pt:Dee Snider]]

[[fi:Dee Snider]]
:It's been verified now.►'''[[User:Chrisjnelson|<span style="color: #005e6a">Chris </span><span style="color: #DF6108">Nelson</span>]]'''<sup>''[[User talk:Chrisjnelson|Holla!]]''</sup> 03:32, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
[[sv:Dee Snider]]

::What are the criteria for moving the page to [[Chad Ocho Cinco]]? Should the fact that it's now his legal name be enough to justify the move, or is he too well-known and established as Chad Johnson to move the page right now? --[[User:Savethemooses|Savethemooses]] ([[User talk:Savethemooses|talk]]) 05:49, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

::this rumor is not confirmed. it's still only a rumor, moreoever, he hasn't gotten his name change approved -[[user:theglobalcowboy]] <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|undated]] comment was added at 06:29, 29 August 2008 (UTC)</small><!--Template:Undated--> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:::You're wrong. It has been reported, not rumored, but a reliable source that he legally changed his name. It does not need approval from the NFL.►'''[[User:Chrisjnelson|<span style="color: #005e6a">Chris </span><span style="color: #DF6108">Nelson</span>]]'''<sup>''[[User talk:Chrisjnelson|Holla!]]''</sup> 06:45, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

::::I think it should remain Chad Johnson per [[WP:COMMONNAME]]. I created the Chad Ocho Cinco redirect. --[[User:Endlessdan|Endless]][[User talk:Endlessdan|dan]] 12:22, 29 August 2008 (UTC) 14:50, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

:::::it needs to be govt approved. And ESPN.com and all other mainstream sports outlets are not covering it yet. -[[user:theglobalcowboy]] <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|undated]] comment was added at 17:34, 29 August 2008 (UTC)</small><!--Template:Undated--> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

::::::You are [http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2008/08/29/broward-county-tells-fanhouse-chad-ocho-cinco-is-official/ wrong] sir. In many [http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nflnation/0-1-431/Johnson--Bengals-getting-more-zany-.html ways].--[[Special:Contributions/208.51.72.2|208.51.72.2]] ([[User talk:208.51.72.2|talk]]) 20:01, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

:::::::Also, I saw them talking about it on ESPN's First Take this morning. -- [[User:SonicAD|SonicAD]] ([[User talk:SonicAD|talk]]) 20:04, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

::::::::It's also being officially reported on bengals.com - [http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=6995 Ocho Cinco 2.0]. [[User:Weters|Weters]] ([[User talk:Weters|talk]]) 06:28, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

:::::::::I think based on the fact that most people still know him as Chad Johnson and wikipedia says to use "[[WP:COMMONNAME|most common name of a person]]". Im pretty sure that most people know him as Chad Johnon and not Chad Ocho Cinco. We should change it back. [[User:Joesixpac|Joesixpac]] ([[User talk:Joesixpac|talk]]) 12:51, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

::::::::::It's time for Ocho Cinco on wiki. I can't believe he actually changed his name! What a guy. <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/99.235.221.33|99.235.221.33]] ([[User talk:99.235.221.33|talk]]) 14:55, 30 August 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:::::::::::Shouldn't he still be referred to as Johnson for everything before his name change, and Ocho Cinco for after it? [Almty1] <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/69.122.12.235|69.122.12.235]] ([[User talk:69.122.12.235|talk]]) 15:19, 31 August 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:::::::::::I'm not convinced he won't change it back to Johnson eventually, but perhaps the Muhammad Ali entry can be used as an example. That entry seems to fairly consistently use the "Ali" name, not "Clay".[[User:Rbernard80|Rbernard80]] ([[User talk:Rbernard80|talk]]) 19:49, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

== Page protection ==
I requested a page protect. A lot of the IP edits need to be reverted. Ie, ''the Bengals drafted Ocho Cinco...''. This is incorrect, the Bengals draft Chad Johnson. --[[User:Endlessdan|Endless]][[User talk:Endlessdan|dan]] 12:22, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

:The [[Muhammad Ali]] page refers to Ali as such multiple times before he changed his name to such. I think that if that is the case there, that referring to Johnson as Ocho Cinco before the name change can be just as ok. [[User:PYLrulz|Whammies]] [[Special:Contributions/PYLrulz|Were]] [[User_Talk:PYLrulz|Here]] 20:56, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

::It should be Ocho Cinco throughout the article, as dumb as it sounds when reading it. 20 years from now, he will just be Chad Ocho Cinco, so when his name was changed will be irrelevant to talking about his past. The Ali example is a perfect one. You wouldn't refer to him by one name through part of the article and then by another name through the rest of it. He ''is'' Muhammad Ali''.►'''[[User:Chrisjnelson|<span style="color: #005e6a">Chris </span><span style="color: #DF6108">Nelson</span>]]'''<sup>''[[User talk:Chrisjnelson|Holla!]]''</sup> 21:05, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

: I agree that this article should refer to Chad as "Ocho Cinco" throughout. However, in external references, the [[2001 NFL Draft]] article, for example, I believe it should still say "Chad Johnson" because at that point in time, he was Chad Johnson. Same goes for the navbox on this page {{tl|2007 Pro Bowl AFC starters}}. — [[User:X96lee15|X96lee15]] ([[User talk:X96lee15|talk]]) 23:07, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

::There is no difference between the article and the template. If you had a "Famous people from Lousville" template, would you put Ali or Cassius Clay? You'd put Ali, because now he is Ali and that's how he's known. In 20 years, he will be known as Chad Ocho Cinco.►'''[[User:Chrisjnelson|<span style="color: #005e6a">Chris </span><span style="color: #DF6108">Nelson</span>]]'''<sup>''[[User talk:Chrisjnelson|Holla!]]''</sup> 23:22, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

::This is absolutely hilarious that he changed his name. I've been laughing hysterically all night. <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/24.166.175.146|24.166.175.146]] ([[User talk:24.166.175.146|talk]]) 01:58, 30 August 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:::Isn't this jumping the gun a little bit? Shouldn't we wait until he's called this more widely by the press? I'm not so sure that I like the idea that we move an article two seconds after it's reported, and before we really know if the wider world will call him this. [[User:Magog the Ogre|Magog the Ogre]] ([[User talk:Magog the Ogre|talk]]) 02:33, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

::::It's common sense. The media will run away with this.►'''[[User:Chrisjnelson|<span style="color: #005e6a">Chris </span><span style="color: #DF6108">Nelson</span>]]'''<sup>''[[User talk:Chrisjnelson|Holla!]]''</sup> 02:58, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

:::::Respectfully, what one person deems common sense is nothing of the like to someone else. [[User:Magog the Ogre|Magog the Ogre]] ([[User talk:Magog the Ogre|talk]]) 02:59, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

You could deem something else common sense if you felt like it, but it doesn't change what actually ''is'' common sense.►'''[[User:Chrisjnelson|<span style="color: #005e6a">Chris </span><span style="color: #DF6108">Nelson</span>]]'''<sup>''[[User talk:Chrisjnelson|Holla!]]''</sup> 03:07, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
:I've been reverting such edits a bit, namely a big one a few minutes ago. it appears I'm in the wrong, although I'd suggest keeping everything at "Chad Johnson" and saying "Chad Johnson" until we're 100% sure everything is official and we're positive it'll stay official, and it's not a "September Fools" type thing. Semi-protect, edit=autoconfirmed, move=sysop? [[User:Calor|Calor]] ([[User talk:Calor|talk]]) 03:09, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Everything prior to the name change should be "Johnson", not "Ocho Cinco". [[Muhammad Ali]] and [[Kareem Abdul Jabbar]] should be that way too. The judge must have been drunk to allow this as well. --[[User:FourteenClowns|FourteenClowns]] ([[User talk:FourteenClowns|talk]]) 04:29, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

This page is making me laugh so hard. [[Special:Contributions/71.191.135.10|71.191.135.10]] ([[User talk:71.191.135.10|talk]]) 05:45, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

When he changes his name back to Chad Johnson after a month/season/trade to a team where 85 is taken, this talk page and it's assertion that he'll be known exclusivly as "Chad Ocho Cinco" in 20 years will be laughable. Also, comparing this to Muhammed Ali is laughable! It may be his legal name, but come on... it's a joke. -[[User:MichiganCharms|MichiganCharms]] ([[User talk:MichiganCharms|talk]]) 06:00, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
:Not to mention that this will fail [[WP:COMMON]], as if you'll be hearing Phill Simms break down "Chad Ocho Cinco's" performance against the Browns at some point. -[[User:MichiganCharms|MichiganCharms]] ([[User talk:MichiganCharms|talk]]) 06:03, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
::I agree completely with Michigancharms. Ali is referred to as Ali because that is what he is actually called. Do you think for a second that anyone is seriously going to refer to this guy as Chad Oucho Cinco for a prolonged amount of time. Not to mention, the sudden change makes part of the article laughably(sp?) bad. "On October 25, 2006, in honor of Hispanic Heritage Month, Ocho Cinco announced he would prefer to be called, "Ocho-Cinco" ("8-5" in Spanish)." [[User:SirChuckB|SirChuckB]] ([[User talk:SirChuckB|talk]]) 06:05, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
:::I think both of you are wrong. To stop editing the article based on the likelihood that he will change his name back later sounds to me like a violation of [[WP:CRYSTAL]]. [[User:Fishyfred|Fishyfred]] ([[User talk:Fishyfred|talk]]) 06:25, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
::::That's not the assumption. First of all, it fails [[WP:COMMONNAMES]] as well as [[WP:COMMON]] to constantly refer to him as "Chad Ocho Cinco" as though that name were serious. We don't have to be slaves to verifable facts, use logic and reason. Things like this are why people think this project is a joke. -[[User:MichiganCharms|MichiganCharms]] ([[User talk:MichiganCharms|talk]]) 06:30, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
:::::It's his damn LEGAL name. It doesn't matter if it's a joke. It doesn't matter if it's the most asinine name you've heard in the entire existence of your being. What matters is that legally, on his bank accounts, on his paycheck, on his legal documents, on his driver's license, it will now say Chad Ocho Cinco. You can call it the dumbest thing to happen in the history of humanity, but it's not the same thing as your examples, because this isn't a nickname that we're trying to pass off as a common-place name used for him. It's his legally recognized name. To not recognize him as such for any reason you ASSUME will happen in the future is not a legitimate reason because of [[WP:CRYSTAL]]. The whole world could assume that he'll change it in six months. Doesn't matter. THIS is his legal name. Period. [[User:President David Palmer|President David Palmer]] ([[User talk:President David Palmer|talk]]) 06:42, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
:I look forward to you bringing the articles on [[Paul McCartney|James "Paul" McCartney]], [[Bob Dylan]] and of course [[Slash]] into line. Gotta love [[WP:COMMONNAME]] --[[User:MichiganCharms|MichiganCharms]] ([[User talk:MichiganCharms|talk]]) 07:11, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
::Bob Dylan's legal name is Bob Dylan. [[User:President David Palmer|President David Palmer]] ([[User talk:President David Palmer|talk]]) 07:28, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

:Consider Cat Stevens as well... his official name is Yusuf Islam, and it has been for years, but his page is still listed as Cat Stevens. More over, in his article, he is referenced as both Stevens and Islam. Personally, I think this whole name thing is ridiculous and that he should remain Chad Johnson for now... 20 years from now when he MIGHT actually be known as 'Ocho Cinco', the encyclopedia can recognize him as it then. --[[User:pl07442|pl07442]]

nfl.com hasn't changed it yet. <font face="Comic sans">[[User:Corvus cornix|<span style="color:green">Corvus cornix</span>]]<sub>''[[User talk:Corvus cornix|<span
style="color:Green">talk</span>]]''</sub></font> 06:55, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

:The Cat Stevens example is a strong one. [[User:CopaceticThought|CopaceticThought]] ([[User talk:CopaceticThought|talk]]) 08:38, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

::I would think though with Cat Stevens being his stage name, and not his real name, I would think that would be taken into account. [[User:PYLrulz|Whammies]] [[Special:Contributions/PYLrulz|Were]] [[User_Talk:PYLrulz|Here]] 10:15, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

:::To the person that asked above, yes, I guarantee you the commentators will call him Ocho Cinco. They might actually say Johnson at times, but the media will comply with this and call him Ocho Cinco. Cat Stevens is called Cat Stevens because that's how he is known. Chad Ocho Cinco is not the equivalent of Yusuf Islam, it's the equivalent of Cat Stevens.►'''[[User:Chrisjnelson|<span style="color: #005e6a">Chris </span><span style="color: #DF6108">Nelson</span>]]'''<sup>''[[User talk:Chrisjnelson|Holla!]]''</sup> 14:35, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

:::And not no one is saying the article doesn't read like a joke now. It does. It sounds stupid as hell. But talk to Chad Ocho Cinco about that, not us. Blame him.►'''[[User:Chrisjnelson|<span style="color: #005e6a">Chris </span><span style="color: #DF6108">Nelson</span>]]'''<sup>''[[User talk:Chrisjnelson|Holla!]]''</sup> 14:39, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

::::Unreal. No one should take that guy seriously. Someone smack the judge that allowed him to do it. Take a look at [[Yusuf Islam]]. They still use Cat Stevens as the title of the page. I think we should do the same. At least he did it for religious reasons. Chad Johnson is just a media attention whore. I bet ESPN will have half hour specials focusing on the name change. Ridiculous! --[[User:FourteenClowns|FourteenClowns]] ([[User talk:FourteenClowns|talk]]) 15:06, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

:::::Why should the judge be smacked? It's his right to change his name to whatever he wants. We might think it's dumb, and maybe it is, but there's nothing wrong with him being allowed to do it.►'''[[User:Chrisjnelson|<span style="color: #005e6a">Chris </span><span style="color: #DF6108">Nelson</span>]]'''<sup>''[[User talk:Chrisjnelson|Holla!]]''</sup> 15:55, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

::::We don't have to go along with his absurdity. [[WP:COMMONNAME]] gives us an out. [[User:LtPowers|Powers]] <sup><small><small>[[User talk:LtPowers|T]]</small></small></sup> 15:07, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

A minor question--if he changed his name to Chad Ocho Cinco, but without a hyphen between the last two names, shouldn't he be refered to as "Cinco" throughout? --[[User:mcglotda|mcglotda]] <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|undated]] comment was added at 15:51, 30 August 2008 (UTC)</small><!--Template:Undated--> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:No, because his full surname is Ocho Cinco. Think of it as... Van Buren.►'''[[User:Chrisjnelson|<span style="color: #005e6a">Chris </span><span style="color: #DF6108">Nelson</span>]]'''<sup>''[[User talk:Chrisjnelson|Holla!]]''</sup> 15:54, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

: In the [http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3560377 ESPN article] referencing the name change, they say he changed his name to "ocho cinco", but continue to use "Johnson" throughout the article when referring to him. I'm curious as to what the box scores will use; I have a feeling he will remain as "Chad Johnson" in print and announcers will make the obligatory "Ocho Cinco name change reference", then continue to call him "CJ". — [[User:X96lee15|X96lee15]] ([[User talk:X96lee15|talk]]) 17:32, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

::Well obviously they'd still call him Johnson in the article ''about'' the name change, as he's just becoming Chad Ocho Cinco. Once people find out about the name change, then he'll be called by his new name. It wouldn't make sense to call him Ocho Cinco in the article about his name change, because the article is the first piece explaining the name change.►'''[[User:Chrisjnelson|<span style="color: #005e6a">Chris </span><span style="color: #DF6108">Nelson</span>]]'''<sup>''[[User talk:Chrisjnelson|Holla!]]''</sup> 17:35, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

::: And because of that reasoning, I'm inclined to think the article right now should be named "Chad Johnson". — [[User:X96lee15|X96lee15]] ([[User talk:X96lee15|talk]]) 17:40, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

::::[[User:TheChad89]] made a good point when it moved the article. He pointed out that Chad Johnson no longer exists. That is a key difference between a pen name (like Mark Twin) or a stage name (like Cat Stevens). Chad Johnson is not the name of an NFL football player anymore. Chad Johnson no longer exists. It is not a pen name, stage name, a nickname. It is his former legal name, which has since been replaced.►'''[[User:Chrisjnelson|<span style="color: #005e6a">Chris </span><span style="color: #DF6108">Nelson</span>]]'''<sup>''[[User talk:Chrisjnelson|Holla!]]''</sup> 19:15, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
:::::How can Chad Ocho Cinco be more common than Chad Johnson? Please some show me a policy or guideline to back up moving the article to Chad Ocho Cinco. Per [[WP:COMMONNAMES]], we must use Chad Johnson, because for the first 30 years of his life, he has been Chad Johnson, now he has been Chad Ocho Cinco for a few days and somehow that is more common? Get real people. Get over the hype of the name change, and ''wait and see'' if Ocho Cinco catches on and becomes more common. We cant know right now because we havent waited long enough.<span style="white-space:nowrap"><font face="Harlow Solid Italic">[[User:Gonzo_fan2007|<font size="2px" color="teal"> « Gonzo fan2007</font>]] ''([[User talk:Gonzo_fan2007|talk]] ♦ [[Special:Contributions/Gonzo_fan2007|contribs]]) @ ''</font></span>'' 19:24, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

:The page is protected. Will somebody please correct the following, "Ocho Cinco is a cousin of former NFL wide receiver Keyshawn Ocho Cinco-Uno Nueve and current NFL cornerback Samari Rolle." Keyshawn Johnson has not changed his name. [[User:Kevin.j.hutchison|Kevin.j.hutchison]] ([[User talk:Kevin.j.hutchison|talk]]) 18:59, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

== [[WP:COMMONNAMES]] ==
Now that the title of the article has been officially changed to Chad Ocho Cinco, I want to start a new section about the naming convention. Referring to [[WP:COMMONNAMES]], I think this was the wrong decision. Specifically, "Wikipedia is not a place to advocate a title change in order to reflect recent scholarship. The articles themselves reflect recent scholarship but the titles should represent common usage." Is that not a signal to leave the name as "Chad Johnson" but to replace references in the article to read "Chad Ocho Cinco"? I move that it should stay as Chad Johnson until we've had a week or two of the NFL season to learn whether or not announcers are using the name. [[User:Fishyfred|Fishyfred]] ([[User talk:Fishyfred|talk]]) 17:12, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

:I think we should let it go since it's inevitable.►'''[[User:Chrisjnelson|<span style="color: #005e6a">Chris </span><span style="color: #DF6108">Nelson</span>]]'''<sup>''[[User talk:Chrisjnelson|Holla!]]''</sup> 17:16, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
::Leave at [[Chad Johnson]], we must wait until the media and third-party sources refer to Chad as "Chad 85", making it the more common name of the two. As of now, Chad Johnson is way more "common" than Chad 85.<span style="white-space:nowrap"><font face="Harlow Solid Italic">[[User:Gonzo_fan2007|<font size="2px" color="teal"> « Gonzo fan2007</font>]] ''([[User talk:Gonzo_fan2007|talk]] ♦ [[Special:Contributions/Gonzo_fan2007|contribs]]) @ ''</font></span>'' 18:50, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

:::It's Chad Ocho Cinco, not Chad 85.►'''[[User:Chrisjnelson|<span style="color: #005e6a">Chris </span><span style="color: #DF6108">Nelson</span>]]'''<sup>''[[User talk:Chrisjnelson|Holla!]]''</sup> 18:53, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

::::<s>Ummmm, I know that... 85 is easier to type Chris.</s><span style="white-space:nowrap"><font face="Harlow Solid Italic">[[User:Gonzo_fan2007|<font size="2px" color="teal"> « Gonzo fan2007</font>]] ''([[User talk:Gonzo_fan2007|talk]] ♦ [[Special:Contributions/Gonzo_fan2007|contribs]]) @ ''</font></span>'' 18:58, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, you wouldn't want to pass out from the exhaustion of typing Ocho Cinco.►'''[[User:Chrisjnelson|<span style="color: #005e6a">Chris </span><span style="color: #DF6108">Nelson</span>]]'''<sup>''[[User talk:Chrisjnelson|Holla!]]''</sup> 18:59, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
:<s>Oooohh "sarcasm," that works real well over the web Chris...</s><span style="white-space:nowrap"><font face="Harlow Solid Italic">[[User:Gonzo_fan2007|<font size="2px" color="teal"> « Gonzo fan2007</font>]] ''([[User talk:Gonzo_fan2007|talk]] ♦ [[Special:Contributions/Gonzo_fan2007|contribs]]) @ ''</font></span>'' 19:00, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

::That response made no sense.►'''[[User:Chrisjnelson|<span style="color: #005e6a">Chris </span><span style="color: #DF6108">Nelson</span>]]'''<sup>''[[User talk:Chrisjnelson|Holla!]]''</sup> 19:02, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
:::<s>Translation: "Sarcasm, when used on the internet, usually does not properly convey what the writer intended, as the receiver of the sarcasm cannot read the body language of the writer, nor can they understand whether the intended affect is a small joke or a snide comment. If one wants to avoid drama and confusion, one should just clearly state what they intend to convey." Why are we even discussing this?</s><span style="white-space:nowrap"><font face="Harlow Solid Italic">[[User:Gonzo_fan2007|<font size="2px" color="teal"> « Gonzo fan2007</font>]] ''([[User talk:Gonzo_fan2007|talk]] ♦ [[Special:Contributions/Gonzo_fan2007|contribs]]) @ ''</font></span>'' 19:07, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

::::You immediately identified it as sarcasm, therefore there was no confusion. Hence, your comment made zero sense. Why are we discussing it? Because you made an senseless comment and I'm trying to help you. I believe in you.►'''[[User:Chrisjnelson|<span style="color: #005e6a">Chris </span><span style="color: #DF6108">Nelson</span>]]'''<sup>''[[User talk:Chrisjnelson|Holla!]]''</sup> 19:13, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

::::: Both of you dilweeds stfu. This is getting annoying...

::::: I think it should be changed to Ocho Cinco. It is his real name now. Chad Johnson doesn't exist anymore. He's Chad Ocho Cinco now, which is actually eight five, not eighty five. [[User:HPJoker|<font color="red">HP</font><font color="tan">Jo</font><font color="blue">ker</font>]]''' <sup>[[User talk:HPJoker|Leave me a message]]</sup>''' 19:22, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

::::::Please remain civil and refrain from personal attacks.<span style="white-space:nowrap"><font face="Harlow Solid Italic">[[User:Gonzo_fan2007|<font size="2px" color="teal"> « Gonzo fan2007</font>]] ''([[User talk:Gonzo_fan2007|talk]] ♦ [[Special:Contributions/Gonzo_fan2007|contribs]]) @ ''</font></span>'' 19:26, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

::::::: Please remain civil and refrain from gheying up the talk page. As far as I'm concerned your just a spam nub. I wish I had Pierces powers to lock this section... [[User:HPJoker|<font color="red">HP</font><font color="tan">Jo</font><font color="blue">ker</font>]]''' <sup>[[User talk:HPJoker|Leave me a message]]</sup>''' 19:27, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

If I ever make a personal attack, I'll take that into consideration.►'''[[User:Chrisjnelson|<span style="color: #005e6a">Chris </span><span style="color: #DF6108">Nelson</span>]]'''<sup>''[[User talk:Chrisjnelson|Holla!]]''</sup> 19:27, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

::::::::First off, i fail to see how being called a tasty seasoning is a personal attack, but HP, you know you're calling an admin a Gay and a Spam n00b? <font color="amaranth">[[User:Shapiros10|Shapiros10]]</font>''''' <sup><font color="chocolate">[[User talk:Shapiros10|contact me]]</font></sup>'''''<sub><font color="bistre">[[Special:Contributions/Shapiros10|My work]]</font></sub> 19:28, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

::::::::: Now I do, and do I really care? No. I have a game to watch and this is getting pathetic. You guys use AIM or something and if this has to do with what I left on your talk page, don't put it on Chad's page, put it on my talk page. [[User:HPJoker|<font color="red">HP</font><font color="tan">Jo</font><font color="blue">ker</font>]]''' <sup>[[User talk:HPJoker|Leave me a message]]</sup>''' 19:30, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Chad Johnson is nobody now, not a real name. Just like how former Cardinal Robert Moore is a nobody now because he changed his name to Ahmad Rashad, which Wikipedia uses. Johnson is a nickname and nothing more, just like The Rocket is a nickname for Raghib Ismail, but Raghib is the name used on Wikipedia. It doesn't matter if you think the name should be one way or another because this is intended to be a non-opinionated website. Furthermore, because his current name will be used on jerseys and other apparel and in sports booths and stat sheets, it will become his better known name. If Johnson had become Muslim and changed his name because of that, it would be changed on Wikipedia and this wouldn't even be an issue. The issue is that many people are of the opinion that this is a joke and don't want to support it, even though it's a serious issue because it's been taken to a serious level.[[User:TheChad89|TheChad89]] ([[User talk:TheChad89|talk]]) 19:35, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
:You keep on saying that this is a non-opinionated website, yet you keep on asserting your opinion without giving evidence to back up your assertion. You also state "it will become his better known name," again that is your opinion. Wikipedia needs [[WP:RS|reliable sources]] that use Ocho Cinco more than Chad Johnson. We need ''to wait and see'' what name becomes more common, we cannot assume or guess or predict what will be more common. All I ask is to wait a little while. Just wait and see, there is no rush, and no matter what you say, as of ''now'', Chad Johnson is still the most common name.<span style="white-space:nowrap"><font face="Harlow Solid Italic">[[User:Gonzo_fan2007|<font size="2px" color="teal"> « Gonzo fan2007</font>]] ''([[User talk:Gonzo_fan2007|talk]] ♦ [[Special:Contributions/Gonzo_fan2007|contribs]]) @ ''</font></span>'' 19:40, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
::I love the way you guys debate this as if it had the least amount of impact on anything meaningful. Seriously, it makes me feel better about my own life. [[Special:Contributions/71.187.217.155|71.187.217.155]] ([[User talk:71.187.217.155|talk]]) 19:59, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
:::Good to know someone ends up happy... Back on topic, '''stop the move and revert warring'''. Leave it as is, wait until the NFL season starts, and watch Bengals highlights. A week, ten days tops won't kill anyone. If Phil Simms says "Palmer throws the deep ball to Ocho Cinco", and everyone else follows suit, so be it, move the page to Chad Ocho Cinco. If Phil Simms says "Palmer hooks up with Johnson for the score", then so be it, and leave the article at Chad Johnson. Edit warring gets nobody anywhere, and the end result is a bunch of frustrated people shouting at each other, with little progress made. [[User:Calor|Calor]] ([[User talk:Calor|talk]]) 20:03, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
::::This whole thing is just hilarious, really. I think Calor hit the nail on the head; just be patient. If they start calling him "Chad Ocho Cinco" on TV, newspapers, etc., then we can move the page. Seriously, this much wikidrama or whatever it is is just unnecessary. Just be patient and time will tell what this article will be called; all we can do is wait. &nbsp; '''[[User:Jj137|<font color="#008040">jj137</font>]] [[User talk:Jj137|<font color="#008040">(</font><font color="black">talk</font><font color="#008040">)</font>]]''' 20:09, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

I am not saying anything should change based on this one occurrence, but the [[Associated Press|AP]] has [http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jrUV-mLMdBLB2qFJPsAaawbCsf4AD92VH6I80 adopted the practice of calling him Ocho Cinco]. Could have a domino effect.►'''[[User:Chrisjnelson|<span style="color: #005e6a">Chris </span><span style="color: #DF6108">Nelson</span>]]'''<sup>''[[User talk:Chrisjnelson|Holla!]]''</sup> 18:52, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

:''"The Bengals announced that Chad Johnson will be referred to as "Chad Ocho Cinco for all club business" from here on.
Johnson will wear "Ocho Cinco" as his last name and will be listed as such on the team website."''►'''[[User:Chrisjnelson|<span style="color: #005e6a">Chris </span><span style="color: #DF6108">Nelson</span>]]'''<sup>''[[User talk:Chrisjnelson|Holla!]]''</sup> 19:52, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

::And he is now listed as such all over the site, including his [http://www.bengals.com/team/player.asp?player_id=8 personal page]. [[User:JustSomeRandomGuy32|JustSomeRandomGuy32]] ([[User talk:JustSomeRandomGuy32|talk]]) 20:32, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

== Compromise ==

Would anyone have a problem with keeping the current arrangement (Johnson in the title, Ocho Cinco in the text) until consensus can be reached? -[[User:MichiganCharms|MichiganCharms]] ([[User talk:MichiganCharms|talk]]) 20:52, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
:Yes. Having title saying A and text saying B is just messy and unencyclopedic. Both the title and the text should read the same name. I would immensely prefer it stays Chad Johnson until we're week or two into the NFL season and we see what Chad is predominantly called by the media, and then fix the article accordingly when consensus backed up with sources is reached. I am, however, perfectly willing to help transition the article to Chad Ocho Cinco if he is indeed called "Chad Ocho Cinco" or "Ocho Cinco" by the majority of journalists and broadcasters, but I would like to see [[WP:RS|reliable sources]] calling him Ocho Cinco before we change the article. [[User:Calor|Calor]] ([[User talk:Calor|talk]]) 02:38, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
:: It's irrelevant what journalists call him, the fact remains that his LEGAL NAME is Chad Javon Ocho Cinco, and that's how he should be filed. <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/68.6.118.226|68.6.118.226]] ([[User talk:68.6.118.226|talk]]) 04:21, 31 August 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:::It's not at all irrelevant; read [[WP:COMMONNAMES]], and look at [[Mark Twain]], [[Jeb Bush]], and [[Cat Stevens]], none of which are titled with the subject's legal name. [[User:LtPowers|Powers]] <sup><small><small>[[User talk:LtPowers|T]]</small></small></sup> 13:49, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

My feeling is that the guy is named Ocho Cinco, and whether you think it's dumb, or you think he's an attention whore, that is in fact his name. If you enter "Chad Johnson" in the search bar, it's goiung to direct you here anyway, so what's the big deal?

And another thing: Why is the page titled "Chad Johnson" and yet he is referred to as "Ocho Cinco" all throughout the page? [[User:Danno2530|Danno2530]], 12:02, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

:Because of edit warring. <font face="Comic sans">[[User:Corvus cornix|<span style="color:green">Corvus cornix</span>]]<sub>''[[User talk:Corvus cornix|<span style="color:Green">talk</span>]]''</sub></font> 05:04, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
::{{ec}}His legal name doesn't matter. [[WP:COMMONNAMES]]. I give you [[Shoeless Joe Jackson]]. Do you think his legal first name was "Shoeless Joe"? I think not. I also give you [[Mitt Romney]]. His legal name is Willard Romney, yet his page goes by his most common name. If George Bush was widely known as Hunga Bunga Georgie Boy, not as George Bush, his article would be at Hunga Bunga Georgie Boy. Right now, he has always been called Chad Johnson, and the newest incident is often introduced in the news as "Chad Johnson has legally changed his name to Chad Ocho Cinco". That may change, but for the time being, he is widely known as Chad Johnson, and his article should reflect that fact.
::As for the title being Johnson and the text being Ocho Cinco: I have no clue. [[User:Calor|Calor]] ([[User talk:Calor|talk]]) 05:07, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
This page currently reads ridiculously. I don't care what he changed his name to, replacing every instance of Johnson to Ocho Cinco makes it seem as if he has been named that throughout that whole time. I think we should only start using "Ocho Cinco" when talking about events that occurred after the name change (meaning 99% of this article should still use Johnson). [[User:VegaDark|VegaDark]] ([[User talk:VegaDark|talk]]) 06:27, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

:I've changed some of the uses to pronouns, because in either case it just read weirdly. Regardless of whether we end up using "Ocho Cinco" or "Johnson", it doesn't make sense for five sentences in a row about the person, in an article on the person with no ambiguity, to conspicuously avoid saying "he". --[[User:Delirium|Delirium]] ([[User talk:Delirium|talk]]) 10:17, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

I think we're dealing with a lot of users who don't understand Wikipedia policy. Anyway, the common use of Chad Johnson can be sourced... look at his NFL.com player page, the Bengals website, '''his personal website''' and numerous press reports from just yesterday about Rudi Johnson's release. On the flip side, all of the Google hits for Chad Ocho Cinco are articles about the name change and this Wiki page. We should go with what can be sourced. --[[User:MichiganCharms|MichiganCharms]] ([[User talk:MichiganCharms|talk]]) 16:20, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
:ESPN currently reporting on Chad Johnson's shoulder injury. -[[User:MichiganCharms|MichiganCharms]] ([[User talk:MichiganCharms|talk]]) 23:11, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Another argument against calling him "Ocho Cinco" throughout. If you look at Kareem Abdul-Jabbar's page, when discussing his college career and rookie year in the NBA, he's referred to as "Alcindor." He is only referred to as Abdul-Jabbar for events that take place after he had changed his name. [[User:Iowamutt|Iowamutt]] ([[User talk:Iowamutt|talk]]) 03:43, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

:However, you look at the Muhammad Ali page, like I mentioned earlier, and he is called Ali, even in his Cassius Clay days. [[User:PYLrulz|Whammies]] [[Special:Contributions/PYLrulz|Were]] [[User_Talk:PYLrulz|Here]] 10:33, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

:I second all of the above arguments against using "Ocho Cinco" repeatedly in the text. It looks ridiculous. -- [[User:Mwalcoff|Mwalcoff]] ([[User talk:Mwalcoff|talk]]) 03:22, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

::"Ridiculousness" is subjective and not a legitimate reason. It's irrelevant.►'''[[User:Chrisjnelson|<span style="color: #005e6a">Chris </span><span style="color: #DF6108">Nelson</span>]]'''<sup>''[[User talk:Chrisjnelson|Holla!]]''</sup> 03:36, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

:::Fine. I ask you to walk down the street wearing backwards pajamas, a 70s leisure suit, a Darth Vader helmet, a devil's tail and a rubber glove stretched over your head. If anyone laughs, tell them ridiculousness is subjective and irrelevant. -- [[User:Mwalcoff|Mwalcoff]] ([[User talk:Mwalcoff|talk]]) 00:08, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

::::But ridiculousness ''is'' irrelevant in an encyclopedia. You don't exclude information you find to be ridiculous because that is not objective, nor would you avoid calling someone by their legal name if ''you'' happened to find it ridiculous. "Ridiculousness" is nothing more than an opinion, and therefore without question irrelevant to the encyclopedia. You're wrong, it's as simple as that.►'''[[User:Chrisjnelson|<span style="color: #005e6a">Chris </span><span style="color: #DF6108">Nelson</span>]]'''<sup>''[[User talk:Chrisjnelson|Holla!]]''</sup> 01:27, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

:::::We should include ridiculous facts, but we should not write in a ridiculous ''manner''. To refer to #85 as Chad Ocho Cinco throughout the article when all of the media outlets are still calling him by his given name is ridiculous, or whatever you want to call it, and inconsistent with long-standing Wikipedia policy. Note that comments like "You're wrong, it's as simple as that" do not contribute to the solving of this issue and are contrary to the Wikipedia culture of cooperation and mutual respect. -- [[User:Mwalcoff|Mwalcoff]] ([[User talk:Mwalcoff|talk]]) 03:29, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

::::::The article being written in a "ridiculous manner" is, once again, only your opinion. There's not an issue for me to contribute toward solving.►'''[[User:Chrisjnelson|<span style="color: #005e6a">Chris </span><span style="color: #DF6108">Nelson</span>]]'''<sup>''[[User talk:Chrisjnelson|Holla!]]''</sup> 04:37, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Seriously people, this stuff needs to stop. What do you expect to get accomplished with this much arguing going on? &nbsp; '''[[User:Jj137|<font color="#008040">jj137</font>]] [[User talk:Jj137|<font color="#008040">(</font><font color="black">talk</font><font color="#008040">)</font>]]''' 01:01, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

The roster at the Bengals website has changed now, as has the AP's standard. Is it time to pull the trigger?

== Led His Team? ==

Is it appropriate to say that he "led his team to an 11-1 record"? Don't get me wrong, I'm an Ocho Cinco fan, but he ''is'' a wide reciever, and that's not a position that people generally say "leads" a team, such as a quaterback might. Before you ask, I don't have any particular fix in mind. [[User:TheNobleSith|TheNobleSith]] ([[User talk:TheNobleSith|talk]]) 04:21, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

:Nah, that kind of language should not be used.►'''[[User:Chrisjnelson|<span style="color: #005e6a">Chris </span><span style="color: #DF6108">Nelson</span>]]'''<sup>''[[User talk:Chrisjnelson|Holla!]]''</sup> 05:35, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

==Retitle?==
Since his name is now legally Chad Ocho Cinco should the article be retitled? <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/24.218.221.152|24.218.221.152]] ([[User talk:24.218.221.152|talk]]) 14:19, 2 September 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:See the above sections. Let's not start another huge argument. [[User:Calor|Calor]] ([[User talk:Calor|talk]]) 15:26, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

== RFC ==



==Bengals officially recognizing the new name==
The Bengals have said they will call him Ocho Cinco from now on: [http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AoiQRYujhefxuktzfkSp8OY5nYcB?slug=ap-chadochocinco&prov=ap&type=lgns]. <font family="Comic sans">[[User:Corvus cornix|<span style="color:green">Corvus cornix</span>]]<sub>''[[User talk:Corvus cornix|<span style="color:Green">talk</span>]]''</sub></font> 21:32, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
:That's enough for me. I was against the move before; now I am for it. [[User:Magog the Ogre|Magog the Ogre]] ([[User talk:Magog the Ogre|talk]]) 21:48, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
::Same here. [[User:Burner0718|'''<font color="red">Burner</font><font color="gray">0718</font>''']] [[User talk:Burner0718|''<sup><font color="#000000">Jibba Jabba!</font></sup>'']] 21:54, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
:::Not yet, I don't think. Most people still know him as Chad Johnson, and per [[WP:COMMONNAME]] that means we should still call him Chad Johnson. If a couple of months pass and it becomes clear that the new name has caught on, we can still change it back. -- [[User:Mwalcoff|Mwalcoff]] ([[User talk:Mwalcoff|talk]]) 22:30, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
:::: If it's legally Ocho Cinco, and the NFL recognizes it as such, and he wants to be known as such, why can't he be referenced as such? I don't get it - I don't even see the argument for the other side. It doesn't matter how it reads. [[User:Vamsilly|Vamsilly]] ([[User talk:Vamsilly|talk]]) 22:55, 4 September 2008 (UTC)vamsilly
Please read [[WP:COMMONNAME]]. -- [[User:Mwalcoff|Mwalcoff]] ([[User talk:Mwalcoff|talk]]) 00:02, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
:I disagree; he has LEGALLY changed his name; [[WP:COMMONNAME]] does not apply in that sense. --[[User:Mhking|Mhking]] ([[User talk:Mhking|talk]]) 00:15, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
::Tell that to [[Mark Twain]] and all the other people whose articles are ''not'' titled with their legal names. [[User:LtPowers|Powers]] <sup><small><small>[[User talk:LtPowers|T]]</small></small></sup> 00:41, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::The name has been legally changed Chad Ocho Cinco; also, the NFL and the Bengals recognize the name [http://cincinnatibengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=7020], [http://www.bengals.com/team/player.asp?player_id=8]. I would suggest moving to the new name and redirecting the old name there. --[[User:Mhking|Mhking]] ([[User talk:Mhking|talk]]) 23:34, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
::::::I agree. The same thing happened earlier this baseball season when [[CC Sabathia]] changed his name from C.C. It should be changed. [[User:Killervogel5|<span style="color:black">'''KV5'''</span>]] • [[User_talk:Killervogel5|<span style="color:blue">Squawk box</span>]] • [[WP:PHILLIES|<span style="color:red">Fight on!</span>]] 00:38, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::::It seems this would be a great chance to use [[WP:IAR]] [[User:Burner0718|'''<font color="red">Burner</font><font color="gray">0718</font>''']] [[User talk:Burner0718|''<sup><font color="#000000">Jibba Jabba!</font></sup>'']] 00:39, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
::::::::Virtually every media outlet across the country (ESPN.com, Yahoo!, etc.) is now recognizing him as Ocho Cinco. I think it is embarassing for Wiki that they are refusing to make this change. The site is losing a ton of credibility here. <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/76.19.169.20|76.19.169.20]] ([[User talk:76.19.169.20|talk]]) 00:50, 5 September 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:::::::::I've made the change. Wikipedia has not "lost credibility" because of this though. [[User:Grandmasterka|<font color="red">Grand</font>]][[User talk:Grandmasterka|<font color="blue">master</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Grandmasterka|<font color="green">ka</font>]] 00:58, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
::::::::::<s>Snuck it in before the move protection, huh? Nice. Why did you make a change that obviously does not have consensus? [[User:LtPowers|Powers]] <sup><small><small>[[User talk:LtPowers|T]]</small></small></sup> 01:03, 5 September 2008 (UTC)</s>
:::::::::::Oh, I see -- you're an admin, so ''you'' get to move the article ''even though it's under move protection''? Nice. Real nice. [[User:LtPowers|Powers]] <sup><small><small>[[User talk:LtPowers|T]]</small></small></sup> 01:05, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
::::::::::::You're the only one opposing it. [[User:Grandmasterka|<font color="red">Grand</font>]][[User talk:Grandmasterka|<font color="blue">master</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Grandmasterka|<font color="green">ka</font>]] 01:09, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Well, no, Mwalcoff opposes it, too, but I think there's a consensus to move it. <font family="Comic sans">[[User:Corvus cornix|<span style="color:green">Corvus cornix</span>]]<sub>''[[User talk:Corvus cornix|<span style="color:Green">talk</span>]]''</sub></font> 01:12, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
::::::::::::::There are several more in prior sections; you can't expect them all to have chimed in in the last five hours. Regardless, I maintain that overriding the move protection was bad form. [[User:LtPowers|Powers]] <sup><small><small>[[User talk:LtPowers|T]]</small></small></sup> 01:15, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
:''reset indent''
:I agree with the change, especially now that the NFL and the Bengals recognize the new name. However if the title is "Ocho Cinco," then the references in the text should be Ocho Cinco as well, e.g. "Ocho Cinco had 1,000 yards" as opposed to "Johnson had 1,000 yards." The page would look more consistant and neat. <font color="red">[[User:Frank Anchor|'''Frank Anchor''']]</font> <sup><font color="orange">[[User_talk:Frank Anchor|Talk to me]]</font></sup> 01:14, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
::Also, a point having to do with [[WP:COMMONNAMES]], Ocho Cinco, the Bengals, and even the No Fun League, recognize him as '''Chad Ocho Cinco'''. If he continues to be referred to as Chad Johnson by the media on an almost unanimous basis, then move the page back, however it should be O. C. for now <font color="red">[[User:Frank Anchor|'''Frank Anchor''']]</font> <sup><font color="orange">[[User_talk:Frank Anchor|Talk to me]]</font></sup> 01:22, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
:::I'm too tired of this to argue, I still have yet to see a media source refer to him as Chad Ocho Cinco besides mentioning that was now his legal name... but consensus wins out. Viva Ocho Cinco --01:24, 5 September 2008 (UTC) <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:MichiganCharms|MichiganCharms]] ([[User talk:MichiganCharms|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/MichiganCharms|contribs]]) </small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:The official Bengals page for him [http://www.bengals.com/team/player.asp?player_id=8] calls him "Chad Ocho Cinco" at the top but still refers to him as Johnson in the text on the page. <font family="Comic sans">[[User:Corvus cornix|<span style="color:green">Corvus cornix</span>]]<sub>''[[User talk:Corvus cornix|<span style="color:Green">talk</span>]]''</sub></font> 01:33, 5 September 2008 (UTC)


Could somebody PLEASE put a space between his last name and the parenthesis in the very first line? It's such an obvious grammatical flaw that needs to be fixed. [[user:Celticsfan1983|celticsfan1983]]
:?? There is a space. <font family="Comic sans">[[User:Corvus cornix|<span style="color:green">Corvus cornix</span>]]<sub>''[[User talk:Corvus cornix|<span style="color:Green">talk</span>]]''</sub></font> 01:38, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
:Since the Bengals have said they will call him Ocho Cinco from now on, that is his correct name, at least in regard to football. [[User:Raggz|Raggz]] ([[User talk:Raggz|talk]]) 10:19, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

==Current status==
Yahoo Sports: Chad Ocho Cinco [http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/cin/roster;_ylt=AoPZcstX70oLKltRt_xDeDuB2bYF]<br>
ESPN.com: Chad Ocho Cinco [http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/teams/roster?team=cin]<br>
Cincinnati Bengals: Chad Ocho Cinco [http://www.bengals.com/team/Roster.asp]<br>
NFL.com: Chad Johnson [http://www.nfl.com/teams/cincinnatibengals/roster?team=CIN]<br>
Fox Sports: Chad Ocho Cinco [http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/team/cincinnati-bengals/roster]

It appears there's been some changes since this debate began. It's official, the world has gone crazy. Anyway, I can see the logic behind renaming the page to Chad Ocho Cinco and referring to him as Ocho Cinco in the present tense, even though I would be more conservative than those media outlets and wait a couple of weeks to see if his new name catches on before doing so. Either way, I still think it's anachronistic to talk about what "Ocho Cinco" did in college, since he was still named Chad Johnson at the time. I suggest we take the approach of the [[Kareem Abdul-Jabbar]] article and refer to him as Chad Johnson when discussing his career before his name change. -- [[User:Mwalcoff|Mwalcoff]] ([[User talk:Mwalcoff|talk]]) 02:39, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

:Having it change in the middle of the article reads worse in my opinion. You just have to think about how it will read 20 years from now. He'll ''be'' Ocho Cinco to everyone, and no one will think anything of a sentence like "Ocho Cinco attended high school in Miami" or whatever. You're talking about a man's entire life, but that man is ''currently'' named Ocho Cinco and therefore it's perfectly acceptable to call him that when referring to any point in his life.►'''[[User:Chrisjnelson|<span style="color: #005e6a">Chris </span><span style="color: #DF6108">Nelson</span>]]'''<sup>''[[User talk:Chrisjnelson|Holla!]]''</sup> 02:47, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
::OK, so using that logic, suppose I am [[Tony Gonzalez (American football)|Tony Gonzalez]]. I am a reliable TE with good hands, correct? But suppose this year I drop 30 passes, and receive the name butterfingers. Now, would it be fair to refer to me as butterfingers earlier in my career, when I was a reliable TE with good hands? Or should I just be called butterfingers when talking about that point in my career? '''''[[User:RC-0722|<font color="#CC5500">RC-0722</font>]] <sup>[[Special:Contributions/RC-0722|<font color="#0000FF">361.0</font>]]</sup>/[[User talk:RC-0722|<font color="#FF0000">1</font>]]''''' 03:27, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

:::That makes no sense...►'''[[User:Chrisjnelson|<span style="color: #005e6a">Chris </span><span style="color: #DF6108">Nelson</span>]]'''<sup>''[[User talk:Chrisjnelson|Holla!]]''</sup> 03:31, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
::::Oh sure it does, you're just not thinking fourth dimensionally. '''''[[User:RC-0722|<font color="#CC5500">RC-0722</font>]] <sup>[[Special:Contributions/RC-0722|<font color="#0000FF">361.0</font>]]</sup>/[[User talk:RC-0722|<font color="#FF0000">1</font>]]''''' 03:49, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
::::Actually Chris, it made as much sense as your comment. :D [[User:Burner0718|'''<font color="red">Burner</font><font color="gray">0718</font>''']] [[User talk:Burner0718|''<sup><font color="#000000">Jibba Jabba!</font></sup>'']] 03:50, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

:::::No, my comment was logical. His example was not comparable. A player earning a nickname of Butterfingers would have nothing to do with the naming of his article or his name throughout it. His example makes no sense at all and is in no way similar to Ocho Cinco's.►'''[[User:Chrisjnelson|<span style="color: #005e6a">Chris </span><span style="color: #DF6108">Nelson</span>]]'''<sup>''[[User talk:Chrisjnelson|Holla!]]''</sup> 04:19, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

: IMO, "Ocho Cinco" should be used throughout this article, even for events that occurred before the name change. However, on article such as [[2001 NFL Draft]] and {{tl|2007 Pro Bowl AFC starters}}, he should be referred to as "Chad Johnson" since, from their perspectives, he was "CJ" at that time. — [[User:X96lee15|X96lee15]] ([[User talk:X96lee15|talk]]) 04:28, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
::We don't know what will happen 20-30 yrs. from now, Chris. We should focus on the here and now. I do agree with having it say one name all through the article though. [[User:Burner0718|'''<font color="red">Burner</font><font color="gray">0718</font>''']] [[User talk:Burner0718|''<sup><font color="#000000">Jibba Jabba!</font></sup>'']] 04:40, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

:::You misunderstood me. My point was not that things will be different years from now. My point was that, once this is old news and the name change itself has taken a backseat to his public name, it will not seem weird to refer to him by his current name regardless of the point in life about which you're talking. I believe the recency of the name change is the only thing that makes it feel odd to call him that at any point.►'''[[User:Chrisjnelson|<span style="color: #005e6a">Chris </span><span style="color: #DF6108">Nelson</span>]]'''<sup>''[[User talk:Chrisjnelson|Holla!]]''</sup> 04:52, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

::::To try and make that a little clearer: at this point, he's ''just'' become Chad Ocho Cinco, so in our minds we still think of him as Chad Johnson and feel like we should refer to him by his old name for certain points in his life. However, years down the road, as has happened with people like [[Muhammad Ali]], the name change itself becomes only a minor detail and in our minds he simply ''is'' Muhammad Ali. I don't think anyone here would say there's something wrong with saying "Muhammad Ali grew up in <nowiki>[location]</nowiki>" or "Muhammad Ali won a gold medal in 1960." It's not weird because, although his name was not Muhammad Ali then, his identity to us now ''is'' that.►'''[[User:Chrisjnelson|<span style="color: #005e6a">Chris </span><span style="color: #DF6108">Nelson</span>]]'''<sup>''[[User talk:Chrisjnelson|Holla!]]''</sup> 04:55, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::Ah yes, I understand now. Thanks. [[User:Burner0718|'''<font color="red">Burner</font><font color="gray">0718</font>''']] [[User talk:Burner0718|''<sup><font color="#000000">Jibba Jabba!</font></sup>'']] 04:58, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm glad you understand, I was worried I was only making it more confusing. It makes sense to me and I know what I mean, but it's difficult to articulate in text.►'''[[User:Chrisjnelson|<span style="color: #005e6a">Chris </span><span style="color: #DF6108">Nelson</span>]]'''<sup>''[[User talk:Chrisjnelson|Holla!]]''</sup> 05:02, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
:Replied on Chris' talkpage. [[User:Burner0718|'''<font color="red">Burner</font><font color="gray">0718</font>''']] [[User talk:Burner0718|''<sup><font color="#000000">Jibba Jabba!</font></sup>'']] 05:06, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

::::No, what makes it feel odd is that it's a dumb publicity stunt. Your prediction that in 20 years everyone will know him as "Chad Ocho Cinco" may come true, but it's ridiculous to assume it will. [[User:LtPowers|Powers]] <sup><small><small>[[User talk:LtPowers|T]]</small></small></sup> 13:23, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

:::::Considering it's his legal name, it's certainly not ridiculous to assume. Nothing has to change for him to be named Chad Ocho Cinco in 20 years.►'''[[User:Chrisjnelson|<span style="color: #005e6a">Chris </span><span style="color: #DF6108">Nelson</span>]]'''<sup>''[[User talk:Chrisjnelson|Holla!]]''</sup> 15:06, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

:Chris, you're seriously insulting everyone's intellegence if you believe that people in the future won't know the difference between someone who changed their name because of a religious conversion (like Ali) and someone who changed their name to get their nickname on a jersey. If you honestly don't see a difference, well yeesh. And since you want to play the guessing game, there is nothing to prove the NFL negotiates an exemption to let him do it and be named Johnson and he changes it back. Or that after the novelty wears off (which it's already starting to) that he just says forget it and changes it back. There are far too many variables here. Not that baseless specualtion belongs on wikipedia at all, see [[WP:CRYSTAL]] --[[User:MichiganCharms|MichiganCharms]] ([[User talk:MichiganCharms|talk]]) 17:35, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
:He's legally changed his name to Ocho Cinco. Unless he says in an interview that he has plans to change it back, than it should stay as Ocho Cinco, per [[WP:NOTCRYSTAL|Wikipedia's Crystal Ball policy]]. Yes it's a publicity stunt, but the article clearly states that. --[[User:Mr.crabby|<span style="color:#FF9912;">'''Mr.crabby'''</span>]] '''''<font face="Comic Sans MS"></font>''''' ''<font face="Arial"><small>[[User Talk:Mr.crabby|<span style="color: #007FFF;">(Talk)</span>]]</small></font>'' 22:40, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
::Generally, we don't care what someone's legal name is. Why does everyone keep bringing it up? There are countless other articles in which we don't use the subject's legal name as the title. [[User:LtPowers|Powers]] <sup><small><small>[[User talk:LtPowers|T]]</small></small></sup> 00:49, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
Although I don't agree with the title of the article, I understand the reasons for the change. But I still think that in order to maintain a professional tone in the body of the article it should still refer to him as Johnson, or at the very least Chad. The entire thing reads like a joke right now. Quote any wikipedia policy you want, articles that sound unprofessional will carry little credibility. Sometimes you just have to 'see the forest' and go with substance over legal form. [[Special:Contributions/208.103.249.247|208.103.249.247]] ([[User talk:208.103.249.247|talk]]) 01:00, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
:::It's his legal name how does it read as a joke?--[[User:E tac|E tac]] ([[User talk:E tac|talk]]) 05:41, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

::::It doesn't matter what his legal name is; if the media uses it and it's his common name it should be used entirely here. Whether or not you think it reads ridiculously is subjective and irrelevant.►'''[[User:Chrisjnelson|<span style="color: #005e6a">Chris </span><span style="color: #DF6108">Nelson</span>]]'''<sup>''[[User talk:Chrisjnelson|Holla!]]''</sup> 15:52, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

:::::Exactly, my thoughts are subjective and irrelevant and of course yours are not. Thank you for showing me the err of my ways. I now know not to express my own thoughts and ideas because they are subjective and irrelevant and in the future I will consult with you first to make sure that they are in agreement with what is right.--[[User:E tac|E tac]] ([[User talk:E tac|talk]]) 04:55, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

::::::You are being a child.►'''[[User:Chrisjnelson|<span style="color: #005e6a">Chris </span><span style="color: #DF6108">Nelson</span>]]'''<sup>''[[User talk:Chrisjnelson|Holla!]]''</sup> 20:55, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

(9/21/2008)
Yahoo Sports: Chad Johnson [http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/cin/roster;_ylt=AoPZcstX70oLKltRt_xDeDuB2bYF]<br>
ESPN.com: Chad Johnson [http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/teams/roster?team=cin]<br>
Cincinnati Bengals: Chad Ocho Cinco [http://www.bengals.com/team/Roster.asp]<br>
NFL.com: Chad Johnson [http://www.nfl.com/teams/cincinnatibengals/roster?team=CIN]<br>
Fox Sports: Chad Johnson [http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/team/cincinnati-bengals/roster]

:::::::Way to violate wikipedia's no personal attacks policy by calling me a child and look at when your sources are dated (which by the way meant nothing to you when they went against what you thought belonged in the article). At the time of my post he was being refered to by yahoo sports and the like as Chad Ocho Cinco. The only reason they changed back is because Reebok wont let him wear it on his jersey due to there still being Chad Johnson jerseys on shelves at stores.--[[User:E tac|E tac]] ([[User talk:E tac|talk]]) 04:01, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

I posted this on the original [[Chad Johnson]] page but it didn't seem to take:

Interested persons should review (again, as I'm *sure* you've done it already) the page on [[|Wikipedia:Naming_conventions|Wikipedia's naming policy]] and in particular the criteria on [[Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(common_names|common names)]].

{{Nutshell|[[Help:Page name|Article naming]] should be easily recognizable by English speakers.
|Titles should be brief without being ambiguous.
|Titles should make [[Help:Link|linking]] to the article simple.}}

I've been following this for the past month and it appears that all major news sources continue to refer to said football player as Chad Johnson. (Where are the folks who used the apparent prevalance of Ocho Cinco in the "major news sources" *for* the change now??) And it would be hard to convince a reasonable person that Mr. Johnson is commonly referred to as Chad OchoCinco (as opposed to his nickname Ocho Cinco). This is why we have pages called [[Tom Cruise]] and [[Meg Ryan]], among other countless examples. It also affects the page's functionality as the linking criterion suggests. Finally, controversial name changes (in real life and in wikipedia) should err on the side of caution and status quo, as the naming policy indicates. I am open to opposing arguments, of course. [[User:Huangdi|Huangdi]] ([[User talk:Huangdi|talk]]) 13:06, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

:[http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/5483/news http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/5483/news]--[[User:E tac|E tac]] ([[User talk:E tac|talk]]) 20:12, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

::Agreed, though there is far from a consensus among news sources. Compare the results on news.google.com for [http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=&q=chad+johnson&btnG=Search+News Chad Johnson] (about 10,669 this moment) vs [http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&nolr=1&q=chad+ocho+cinco&btnG=Search Chad Ocho Cinco] (about 3,678). But of course there's the minor detail that on Sep 28 his jersey still read "C. Johnson" and the announcers kept calling him "Johnson".

::"Ocho Cinco" advocates comparing to Tom Cruise or Meg Ryan totally miss the point. Those people became famous under their adopted names. "Chad Ocho Cinco" has only existed for a month and hasn't made an impact on the public consciousness that even approaches "Chad Johnson". The man can't even wear his new name because his sponsors don't want to lose the marketability of his old one. That should be a sign of what his "common" name is. A better comparison might be Ol' Dirty Bastard announcing that he would change his name to "Big Baby Jesus". It takes more than saying it to make it so.

::Also missing the point are debates over legality and motivation. How or why he changed his name is not important. Neither has anything to do with WP:COMMONNAMES. You would have to argue that there are more searches going on for "Chad Ocho Cinco" than for "Chad Johnson" and I don't see anyone claiming that is the case. --[[User:Szquirrel|squirrel]] ([[User talk:Szquirrel|talk]]) 14:02, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

==Ocho Cinco vs. OchoCinco==
[http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/0905081ocho1.html TheSmokingGun] claims to have the legal documents in the name change, and it has the new legal name as Chad Javon OchoCinco, with no space. There are limitless reports already that his last name is Ocho Cinco. Does TSG article hold any weight? --[[User:Zimbabweed|Zimbabweed]] ([[User talk:Zimbabweed|talk]]) 00:57, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

:NFL calls him Ocho Cinco so theres that --[[User:Twlighter|Twlighter]] ([[User talk:Twlighter|talk]]) 00:08, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

::Which is just further proof of what a massive farce this is. Regardless, the opening sentence should use his real name and it should be explained. His name is Chad OchoCinco. -[[User:MichiganCharms|MichiganCharms]] ([[User talk:MichiganCharms|talk]]) 02:35, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

But the legal documents changed his last name to Ochocinco, not Ocho Cinco. <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/65.189.155.27|65.189.155.27]] ([[User talk:65.189.155.27|talk]]) 02:38, 7 September 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:::It should still be Ocho Cinco per common name. There is no media outlet I know if that does it without the space.►'''[[User:Chrisjnelson|<span style="color: #005e6a">Chris </span><span style="color: #DF6108">Nelson</span>]]'''<sup>''[[User talk:Chrisjnelson|Holla!]]''</sup> 23:31, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm not suggesting an article move to [[Chad Ocho Cinco]], I'm just think the opening statement should read somewhat similar to: '''Chad Javon OchoCinco''' (born '''Chad Javon Johnson''' on January 9, 1978), also known as '''Chad Ocho Cinco''', ... as per [[WP:MOSBIO]]. --[[User:Zimbabweed|Zimbabweed]] ([[User talk:Zimbabweed|talk]]) 05:35, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
:Do we have a reliable source that says his name is "OchoCinco"? [[User:LtPowers|Powers]] <sup><small><small>[[User talk:LtPowers|T]]</small></small></sup> 10:44, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

::[http://www.cnbc.com/id/26610696 CNBC], among [http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&tab=wn&ned=us&q=%22ochocinco%22&btnG=Search+News others], although it looks like it's Ochocinco (all lowercase). --[[User:Zimbabweed|Zimbabweed]] ([[User talk:Zimbabweed|talk]]) 19:07, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

:::Lovely, so now this article is at a ''completely'' absurd title (instead of just mostly absurd), and still move protected. What ridiculousness. [[User:LtPowers|Powers]] <sup><small><small>[[User talk:LtPowers|T]]</small></small></sup> 15:42, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

::::Nothing ridiculous about it. If you have a problem with it, maybe you should try and get the U.S. government to outlaw name changes.►'''[[User:Chrisjnelson|<span style="color: #005e6a">Chris </span><span style="color: #DF6108">Nelson</span>]]'''<sup>''[[User talk:Chrisjnelson|Holla!]]''</sup> 15:43, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

:::::He is saying it's absurd because it is titled something other than his name, which is apparently Ochocinco with no space. I'd say, fix all occurrences to at least match the title (with space), which is also what is on his jersey. [[User:ShinyHubCaps|ShinyHubCaps]] ([[User talk:ShinyHubCaps|talk]]) 04:05, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

==He wasn't allowed to wear Ocho Cinco today==
The NFL said that, due to some sort of contractual obligations with Reebok, which is their official uniform company, Chad had to wear "Johnson" on his back today. <font family="Comic sans">[[User:Corvus cornix|<span style="color:green">Corvus cornix</span>]]<sub>''[[User talk:Corvus cornix|<span style="color:Green">talk</span>]]''</sub></font> 20:34, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

== Article title is clearly wrong ==

Completely ignoring whether or not the article should be titled using the person's legal name or his former name, can we at least agree that the current title is wrong? Sources (linked above) are now reporting consistently that the name is "Ochocinco", not "Ocho Cinco". Can we at least get this moved to that slightly less ridiculous name? [[User:LtPowers|Powers]] <sup><small><small>[[User talk:LtPowers|T]]</small></small></sup> 15:42, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

: The Bengals website says its Chad Ocho Cinco, so no. [[User:HPJoker|<font color="red">HP</font><font color="tan">Jo</font><font color="blue">ker</font>]]''' <sup>[[User talk:HPJoker|Leave me a message]]</sup>''' 23:33, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

::No, because Ocho Cinco is the common name.►'''[[User:Chrisjnelson|<span style="color: #005e6a">Chris </span><span style="color: #DF6108">Nelson</span>]]'''<sup>''[[User talk:Chrisjnelson|Holla!]]''</sup> 02:47, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

:::Are you sure about that? [http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&tab=wn&ned=us&q=%22ochocinco%22&btnG=Search+News]. [[User:LtPowers|Powers]] <sup><small><small>[[User talk:LtPowers|T]]</small></small></sup> 12:36, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

::::Yes I am.►'''[[User:Chrisjnelson|<span style="color: #005e6a">Chris </span><span style="color: #DF6108">Nelson</span>]]'''<sup>''[[User talk:Chrisjnelson|Holla!]]''</sup> 14:42, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

:::::Yeah, change the article body to match the title. The fact that it's mismatched is the dumb thing. Not only is it "Ocho Cinco" everywhere else, including the Bengals' roster and Yahoo! sports rosters, but it is on the back of his jersey with the space. One rumor says that it has no space, and we all conform to that? I doubt everyone else is wrong and we're the only ones who are correct. Add the space throughout the article. [[User:ShinyHubCaps|ShinyHubCaps]] ([[User talk:ShinyHubCaps|talk]]) 04:07, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

The name in the body doesn't have to match the title, nor is it "the dumbest thing" when that happens. The title is usually the common name (*eyes rolling*) and the name in the body is the legal name. Check out [[Tom Cruise]] or [[Diablo Cody]]. [[User:Huangdi|Huangdi]] ([[User talk:Huangdi|talk]]) 13:09, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

== Pre-name change references to "Ochocinco" ==
I'd just like to point out that on most other pages for people who underwent prominent name changes - such as those for [[Hillary Rodham Clinton]] (formerly Hillary Rodham), , [[Kareem Abdul-Jabbar]] (formerly Lew Alcindor), and [[Cat Stevens]] (now Yusuf Islam, formerly Steven Georgiou) - the practice seems to be to refer to the person in their biographies by the name used during the time period in question. The only exception I can find seems to be for [[Muhammad Ali]] (which should also be changed, IMHO). Using the contemporary name is standard practice in biographical writing, which makes eminent sense, because contemporary press reports and other sources obviously use will use the contemporary rather than the "final" name. I'm sure this has been discussed before, but I've never seen the reasoning for using only the "final" name. [[User:Niremetal|Niremetal]] ([[User talk:Niremetal|talk]]) 15:22, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

== Degree for Men? ==

the link to the website TrashTalk85.com does not lead to 'The List' but to a Degree for Men deoderant product placement page. There is abolutely no reference to Ocho Cinco on the site. Should this link be removed or simply referred to as having existed in the past? <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/64.230.81.62|64.230.81.62]] ([[User talk:64.230.81.62|talk]]) 15:49, 5 October 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

Revision as of 02:34, 13 October 2008

Dee Snider

Daniel Dee Snider (born March 15 1955) is an American musician, radio personality, and actor. Snider is most famous for his role as the frontman of the American heavy metal band Twisted Sister.

Life

Born in Massapequa, New York, on Long Island, Snider grew up in nearby Baldwin, and graduated from Baldwin High School in 1972.[1] As a child he sang in a church choir, several school choruses, and Baldwin HS Concert Choir. He also was selected for the All State Chorus by singing.[2]

Career

In 1979 Snider changed several rock bands, and in early 1976 he joined the recently formed Twisted Sister and became the only song writer of the band thereafter.

On MTV in the 80's before Headbanger's Ball, the first Heavy Metal show to feature all metal videos was called Heavy Metal Mania. The first show aired in June 1985. Metal Mania was hosted by Dee Snider and featured metal news, interviews with metal artists, in studio co-hosts, etc..

In the late 1980s, after Twisted Sister was disbanded, he formed Desperado (band), a band featuring ex-Iron Maiden drummer Clive Burr, ex-Gillan guitarist Bernie Torme, and bassist Marc Russel. The group's only album Ace has never been officially released but was heavily bootlegged on CD (under the title Bloodied But Unbowed).

Dee Snider (on right)

In 1985, a Senate hearing was instigated by the Parents Music Resource Center (PMRC), who wanted to introduce a parental warning system that would label all albums containing offensive material. The system was to include letters identifying the type of objectionable content to be found in each album (e.g. O for occult themes, S for sex, D for drugs, V for violence, etc). Dee Snider, John Denver, and Frank Zappa all testified against censorship and the proposed warning system. Such a system was never implemented, but the result of the trial brought about what is now the generic "Parental Advisory: Explicit Content" label. The PMRC was initially formed by the wives of Washington DC power brokers Al Gore (D-TN, Senate) and Secretary of State James Baker. Tipper Gore in particular became the face of the PMRC and a public foil for Dee in the hearings. Ironically, in the 2000 presidential election cycle, Snider endorsed Vice President Gore for office. Public statements at the time (as noted in a July 2000 Reason article) have Dee justifying the decision based on Gore's environmental stance; however, other comments attributed to Dee quote him as saying he was backing the obvious winner[citation needed].

In the 1990s, he formed Widowmaker, with Joe Franco (good friend to Twisted Sister, and drummed on the Love Is For Suckers album), Al Pitrelli, and Marc Russel. They recorded two albums with limited underground success, titled Blood and Bullets, and Standby For Pain.

In the late 1990s, he toured with a "self-tribute" band called Dee Snider's SMFs (Sick Mother Fuckers), sometimes featuring ex-Twisted Sister drummer A.J. Pero. The usual line up included Dee Snider, Derek Tailer, Charlie Mills, Keith Alexander, and Spike.

In 1998, he penned a song entitled "The Magic of Christmas Day (God Bless Us Everyone)", later to be recorded by Celine Dion to her album These Are Special Times - according to Snider, Dion at the time was not aware of who wrote the song. Later that year, he also wrote and starred in the horror film Strangeland. He has also penned the script to a sequel which has the working title of Strangeland 2: Cult of Personality. As of January 2008, however, Snider was less than optimistic that it would ever see the light of day, saying in an interview with Bullz-Eye.com that he had reached a point where he should "put a sign on my website that says, 'Y’got ten million dollars? Give me a call. I’ve got the script ready to go, Robert Englund’s attached, I’m attached. If somebody’s serious and wants to make it, call me. But don’t call me ‘til you’re ready to hand the check over.'”

From June 1999 to August 2002, he hosted a morning radio show on a Hartford, Connecticut Clear Channel station, Radio 104 (104.1 FM WMRQ), called Dee Snider Radio. His show returned to the air at night in August 2004 on 93.3 WMMR in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania until June 2005. He fondly referred to his listeners as his "Peeps", and "DEE" euro stickers, printed by the station, could be seen on the bumpers of his fans' cars throughout Connecticut, New York, and Massachusetts. Other members of the morning show included Nick Lentino, Beth Lockwood, "Psycho Dan" Williams, Sean Robbins, and "Darkside Dave" Wallace. He frequently featured high-profile guests, including his friend and KISS singer/bassist Gene Simmons.

In 2001 he was the voice of Gol Acheron, the main villain for the PlayStation 2 videogame Jak and Daxter: The Precursor Legacy.

In 2002 he rejoined with the reunited Twisted Sister.

Snider played himself in the 2002 TV-movie Warning: Parental Advisory.

In 2003 he appeared with actor Arnold Schwarzenegger, during his drive to recall incumbent California Governor Gray Davis. Snider sang the Twisted Sister hit, "We're Not Gonna Take It," which was adopted by the Schwarzenegger campaign. Every Year since 2004 Dee has narrated a live show known as Van Helsing's Curse which tours the US around Halloween giving a mix of famous music with dark overtones and an occasional part of a storytelling to accompany the music. The concert has also been released on CD.

File:Dee-snider-on-his-chopper.jpg
Dee Snider at the 2005 Sturgis Motorcycle Rally

Snider currently lives part-time in East Setauket, New York.

Snider is also a narrator for many shows and specials on VH1, movie trailers, behind the scenes segments and DVDs special features.

Snider was featured as the 'voice' in the bumpers for MSNBC's 2001/2002 "Fiercely Independent" branding campaign.

Snider returned to radio in June 2006 with Fangoria Radio on Sirius Satellite Radio channel 102 from 9-12 Eastern.

Twisted Sister was inducted into the Long Island Music Hall of Fame in 2006.

In conjunction with the 30th anniversary of Star Wars in 2007, Snider was interviewed by Maul Stanley about his appreciation of the original Star Wars trilogy. At which time, he claimed that his favorite character was "a toss-up between handsome Luke Skywalker and ugly Luke Skywalker," referencing the difference in appearance of actor Mark Hamill between the first and second films, due to his reconstructive facial surgery after a near-fatal car accident.[3]

During winter of 2008, Snider was featured as a contestant on CMT's Gone Country. The show recruited famous musical celebrities, who competed against each other to win a chance to release a country song.

Dee hosts "DEAD ART" on Gallery HD, a show about the beauty and art of cemeteries.

The House of Hair (radio show)

Since 1997, Dee Snider has hosted the House of Hair, a syndicated heavy metal/hair band flashback show that airs on over 200 radio stations across North America. It is syndicated by the United Stations Radio Networks. The show's format runs two hours and features Snider's closing catchphrase, "If it ain't metal, it's crap!"

Personal life

Snider has been married to his wife Suzette, a costume designer, since 1981. They have 4 children, Jesse, Shane, Cody, and Cheyenne. His son Jesse hosted MTV2 Rock, a music video countdown program in 2003, and was the runner-up in MTV's 2008 show Rock the Cradle. Dee Snider appeared on Rock the Cradle as Jesse's mentor. Jesse is also the lead singer of the Rock/Punk/Metal band Baptized By Fire (aka BXF). Snider is a personal friend of professional wrestler Mick Foley. Snider appeared on the MTV show MTV Cribs to show his New York home, along with two of his four children, Shane and Cheyenne. Shane was playing the drums and Cheyenne was listening to Twisted Sister's song "I Wanna Rock". In 2003, Suzette's brother, Vincent Gargiulo, was murdered for allegedly threatening to turn in an armored car robbery ring.[4]

Projects

Bands

Books

Solo albums

Never Let the Bastards Wear You Down, 2000

Guest appearances

Filmography

External links

References

  1. ^ Sounding Off in Suburbia
  2. ^ http://www.newsday.com/community/guide/lihistory/ny-hometown_dee,0,3912071.story?coll=ny-lihistory-navigation Dee Snider: 'I went for an outrageous form of expressing myself.']
  3. ^ "Maul Stanley Talks Star Wars with Dee Snider". MaulStanley.com. Retrieved 2008-09-23.
  4. ^ http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1110ap_gym_owner_homicides.html
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