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July 12

Zimbabwean interest rates

It's just be announced that the Zimbabwean central bank are increasing interest rates from 6,500% to 8,500%, however inflation is at over 9,000,000%. Am I missing something, or are the central bank effectively handing out free money? By the time banks borrowing at that rate have to pay the loan back it's shrunk considerably in real terms. However, people are complaining that these interest rates are too high and are hurting banks. I really don't understand... --Tango (talk) 03:35, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

I don't think they're handing out free money: judging by the article on the Z.$, they're handing out free coloured paper. We think of the German inflation as bad, with people burning money for fuel because it burnt longer than the amount of wood that it could buy, but according to the Z.$, the only reason that the increasing money supply in the Z.$ has been (at one point) that the Z. government couldn't buy ink and paper to print more. I think the big question is: how can their economy continue to function at a rate far worse than Germany ever had? Nyttend (talk) 14:26, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Zimbabwe isn't as bad as Germany yet - Germany peaked at millions of percent per month, Zimbabwe is at millions of percent per year (at the official rate, the real rate is higher, but I'm not sure how much higher). --Tango (talk) 17:12, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

True; I misread the Z$ article. Although who knows how long it will go on; Germany's stamps only reached fifty billion marks, while if the rate keeps going (the Z$ going from 12¼ billion to 19½ billion per US$ from the beginning of July until now) Zimbabwe may have to make corresponding prices even higher. At least it's not as much as with Hungary, with stamps of ½ quintillion pengos. Nyttend (talk) 03:02, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

The amount of time it's been going on for is significant - the hyperinflation in Germany lasted about 2.5 years, it's been going on in Zimbabwe for about 7 or 8, with pretty high inflation before that. That's why the highest denomination notes in Zimbabwe are already 50 billion dollars despite the rate of inflation being much less than in Germany. --Tango (talk) 03:07, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

I'd guess there's been a 1000:1 devaluation of the currency and that you're comparing NewMugabeBux with OldMugabeBux. StuRat (talk) 15:53, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

The 1000:1 devaluation was a couple of years ago, the figures I'm stating have been published this week. --Tango (talk) 16:57, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

There might be people still using the old system, however. After all, aren't there lots of Brits still using traditional units, like hands and stones, long after metric units have become official ? StuRat (talk) 17:31, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

I don't think there are (people are more likely to drop zeros rather than add more when prices are already measured in billions), but either way, these are official figures, so we can be pretty certain they are using the current currency. One possibility I've thought of is that the interest rates are quoted as monthly rates, rather than the more common annual rates (which the inflation figure definitely is), but I can't find anything to support that theory (or to disprove it). --Tango (talk) 18:48, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

To attempt an answer at the original question: I think that whoever said that banks are being hurt by this was referring either to the fact that banks are lenders (i.e. they take depositors' money and lend it out for interest) so they'll lose for the reason you note or (more likely, imo) higher interest rates implies higher bad debts and lower profits. Note that at the inflation rate you quote, prices double every 22 days by my calc but this would not be the case for wages from where repayments are made. Although it could have been said in some other context. For example, financial assets (which are what banks hold) are generally expected to decrease in value when interest rates become higher than expected. They may also have been pointing out that hedges are not affordable, but now I'm just guessing. Anyway, economic theories weren't designed to be true under these circumstances. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 12:15, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Yi San opening theme music?

I like this Yi San opening theme music: [1]. Does anyone know if it has a name? --71.141.156.137 (talk) 04:27, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Well known tune

You know that tune everyone can play on the piano, the one that goes C C C CBABCD E E E EDCDEF G C AGFED(repeat)?

Does that have a name?

Also, does it have lyrics? I've a vague recollection of Niles and Daphne singing along to it in a Frasier episode. AndyJones (talk) 07:57, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

It's called Heart and Soul - music by Hoagy Carmichael, lyrics by Frank Loesser. Hundreds of singers have recorded it, but I can honestly report the only times I've ever heard it are when 1 or 2 pianists belt it out. -- JackofOz (talk) 08:17, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes it is Heart and Soul (song), thank you. AndyJones (talk) 09:17, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Funny. I've always known it was Fings Ain't Wot They Used T'be - and it clearly is: listen to this. I'd never heard of the Carmichael song before today, and supposed that the slight differences in tune were just flourishes people added when they played it.

The Carmichael song is older, so I guess it has priority. I wonder if Lionel Bart knew it? --ColinFine (talk) 12:49, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Sorry to upset your applecart, Colin. They're similar, but different.

• Fings: C C C ABCD E E E CDEF G G AFDBC
• Heart and Soul: C C C CBABCD E E E EDCDEF G C AGF E D C.

It's very common to find 2 tunes that have striking similarities, but are just different enough to be distinguished (for those that have ears to hear). Heart and Soul is one of these pieces that, for unknown reasons, is in a small group of tunes that millions of people play when they sit down to a piano at a party (the other 2 that come to mind are Für Elise and a little jaunty thing played on the black keys with the knuckles, the name of which, if it has one, I don't know, but it goes something like B-flat A-flat G-flat E-flat E-flat etc). Most people who play Heart and Soul don't know what its name is (it's just "that tune we play"), so I'm not at all surprised you've never heard its name. -- JackofOz (talk) 01:48, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

That piece you can't name... I don't know either, but I looked at Category:Musical memes, and Der Flohwalzer shares some properties with it. I wonder if it could be a variant. If you Google "knuckle song" you'll find several people wondering about its origins and not getting any answers. --Allen (talk) 02:54, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes, Jack, I said the tune was slightly different. But as for my applecart - I didn't say I thought it was Fings - I said I knew it was Fings - and I did. Max Bygraves' recording was familiar in Britain at the time, and that's what we played. Furthermore, I haven't found a version of Heart and Soul from which I can determine the B music, but I guess it's quite different from Fings - and we sometimes used to put in the B music of Fings. I remember hearing what I now know to be Heart and Soul as a funky variant of the tune. And if we're being picky - I don't think I've ever heard it with the straight rhythm of Heart and Soul as written - it's always dotted. --ColinFine (talk) 10:04, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm sorry if I came across as picky, Colin. That would never be my intention. It seems to me that the tune you played was "Fings Ain't Wot They Used T'be"; you would certainly know better than I what tune you played. But whether it's the same tune as the one AndyJones asked about is a different matter. The notes he specified correspond exactly to Heart and Soul, but only roughly to Fings after the third C. As for the rhythm, we didn't get into that, we were just focussing on the notes in order to identify the tune. But you're dead right, many of them are dotted. Cheers. -- JackofOz (talk) 12:25, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

San Galgano Abbey - Tuscany

Can someone write an article on this abbey.... quite fascinating (few articles on web but commercial)220.235.225.219 (talk) 09:24, 12 July 2008 (UTC)Pete

You should post about this to Wikipedia's requested articles page. You'll find instructions for how to go about it at that page. -- Captain Disdain (talk) 14:09, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

You could also try requesting a translation of Abbazia di San Galgano.—eric 16:40, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

How many civilians died through Luftwaffe bombings in Soviet Union

How many civilians died through Luftwaffe bombings in Soviet Union ? Information about civilian vicitims of Luftwaffe in Soviet Union is missing from all articles about bombing in WW2. I know there was bombing of cities but I would like to know exact data. --Molobo (talk) 14:20, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Those records may not exist. I doubt that Stalin would have felt the need to keep records of such deaths. StuRat (talk) 19:14, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Thinking this through, it seems far more plausible that Stalin may have preferred (and mandated?) no records be kept of his own slaughter of Soviet civilians in peacetime. But why would he have rejected or suppressed recordkeeping of Luftwaffe damage to Soviet people and property? Once the Germans broke faith and turned on their former ally, I should think documentation of Soviet losses would be valuable in wartime intelligence and postwar reparations. -- Deborahjay (talk) 15:50, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Since WW2 was likely to end with either a total defeat for the Soviet Union or them having control over large parts of Europe, it wasn't going to come down to having verifiable claims for reparitions. Instead the Soviet Union would simply loot all of Eastern Europe of whatever they could get. And, if they ever did find a need for "proof of atrocities", they could simply produce some, even if this required that they massacre a few million people for "evidence". StuRat (talk) 05:30, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

I can't find this on Wikipedia.

"At the close of the 8th century, Pope Hadrian I (772-795) confirmed the decrees of the 6th Synod of Constantinople held almost a century earlier and commanded that thereafter "the figure of a man should take the place of a lamb on the cross." [2] Thanks. Imagine Reason (talk) 18:28, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, well, it doesn't quite strike me as a reliable source -- as far as I can tell, this is just some guy on the internet. Considering that his site also includes things like "Gangster hires Pimp to write Bible!", I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that this isn't likely to pass muster. -- Captain Disdain (talk) 20:09, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

The original source for that particular quote (it is not a direct quote of what Hadrian apparently said) is Marshall Gauvin, Did Jesus Christ Really Live? (online). The online version isn't dated but it seems our Mr. Gauvin published most of his anti-religious stuff in the 1910s-1920s. If you Google Books search "hadrian cross lamb" you get some interesting results; the two categories of works that report the above switcheroo regarding Christ and the lamb are either very recent, non-scholarly books (again, mostly anti-religious stuff), and very old, scholarly books (late 19th, early 20th century). Odd stuff. It seems pretty hard to find something with a decent footnote, though. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 21:39, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

I seem to remember that there was one kind of wall graffiti of a crucified lamb in an ancient Roman catacomb or something -- but no evidence that it was ever a widespread symbol... AnonMoos (talk) 07:54, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps you are thinking of the Alexamenos graffito which shows a man with the head of an ass, crucified, carved on a wall in Rome, dating to the late 1st thru late 3rd century, inscribed ""Alexamenos, worship God" or "Alexamenos worships his God". It is thought to mock the belief of a Christian. Edison (talk) 13:47, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Note that our article is listed under his alternate name Pope Adrian I, although we do have a redirect there from Pope Hadrian I. StuRat (talk) 19:04, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Manhattan/Chicago map

Does anyone know where I could find a map of Manhattan superimposed over a map of Chicago (same scale, of course). Failing that, what would be the best way to create one?—Chowbok ☠ 20:06, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

To create one:

• go to google maps, find chicago, take a screenshot and paste into a decent image editor like GIMP
• do the same for NY, making sure your at the same scale. Paste into a second layer on the same image
• make the NY layer translucent, and move it around as you desire

(for GIMP substitute Photoshop or Illustrator or Inkscape or whatever tool you have to hand)

(aside: You don't say if you're intend to upload this image to Wikipedia - if so, please use a PD map source such as wikitravel:Wikitravel:How to create a map instead of Google)

-- Finlay McWalter | Talk 20:21, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Why would you want said map? I don't ask to be difficult, but knowing the purpose of something like that will make it more clear what the "best way" to create one would be—whether you'll want to have a few transparent layers of maps or whether you'll want something else. It'll just look like a mash of lines unless you create it for a specific purpose. If you're trying to get an idea of relative size or whatever, that's not a good way to do it except in order to get raw square mileage; it won't tell you about relative densities, which are more important for most things. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 21:28, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

It could be for the purpose of a psychogeographical investigation. One of the ideas behind psychogeography is that you should be able to find your way around a city by referring to a map of a completely different city. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 19:17, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

C-Span & the Green Party

The convention has not aired yet, according to this:

http://www.c-spanarchives.org/library/index.php?main_page=product_video_info&products_id=206375-1

But it will be shown at some time today, according to this:

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/

I can't find the exact time it will air. When, and on which of the three C-Span channels, will the Green Party Candidate Nominating Convention air? 71.174.26.247 (talk) 21:51, 12 July 2008 (UTC)ChiouChan

Is there a single USA president that did not start nor participated in a war during his time in office?

Thanks you 87.116.154.181 (talk) 22:55, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

William Henry Harrison. Algebraist 22:59, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes, lots. Jackson, Van Buren (unless you count the Aroostook War), Harrison, Tyler, Taylor, Fillmore, Pierce, Buchanan... OK, I'm bored of listing them. Compare this timeline of wars to this timeline of US presidents and you can find them easily enough. The most recent one was Jimmy Carter, unless you count the Cold War as your war (I am assuming though you mean armed military conflicts). --98.217.8.46 (talk) 00:08, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

I believe that it also has something to do with how you define "war". Carter certainly didn't start a war but he ordered Operation Eagle Claw against Iran. And some of the names listed above had problems (sometimes resolved through force) with the Indians. I'm also listing the relativly bloodless Utah War under Buchanan (arguably a revolt). The link provided above seems to present some problems Flamarande (talk) 18:53, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

'War' is a pretty clear word, but I'm afraid many people's reading of it is being coloured by its disingenuous use in the expression 'War on Terror'. Xn4 (talk) 01:29, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

It's not a clear word at all. There are lots of different kinds of conflict and whether or not they are called wars often depends more on politics than anything else. --Tango (talk) 01:46, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

The meaning is certainly broad (a violent conflict on a large scale), and wars are still wars when they aren't lawfully declared, but what we properly mean by 'war' doesn't seem to me to be in much doubt. If politicians are to be allowed to decide that a war isn't a war, or that a non-war is a war, then aren't we made fools of? Xn4 (talk) 05:25, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Nobody can make a fool of you; one does that oneself. rewritten to avoid sounding like I'm actually calling anyone specific a fool. Curse you modern English for the clumsiness such things. Anyway, I think this has started to stray from the question into something quite different that is going to quickly degenerate if people aren't careful... 79.66.54.186 (talk) 18:13, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Andrew Jackson, 1829-1837? Black Hawk War, Second Seminole War. Martin Van Buren, 1837-1841? Second Seminole War. William Henry Harrison, well okay, but his term lasted all of a month. John Tyler, 1841-1845? Second Seminole War. Zachary Taylor, well he served for just 16 months, but still there was the Cayuse War. Millard Fillmore, 1850-1853? Cayuse War. Franklin Pierce, 1853-1857? Cayuse War, Seminole Wars. James Buchanan, 1857-1861? Seminole Wars, and the Utah War, arguably. The wars between the United States and the Indians are often overlooked or dismissed as irrelevant or somehow not really wars. But they were almost always declared as wars by Congress, and ended with treaties of sort the US used for dealing with any sovereign nation. In short these wars were "lawfully declared" and resolved by treaty. Granted the Indian Wars and the treaties resulting were of a different nature than those conducted with European powers. Nonetheless it seems to me a disservice to pass over these wars as somehow not counting. Pfly (talk) 06:51, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

July 13

Adoption in the United States on the basis of religion

I have read two contradictory statements regarding the religion of adoptive parents in the United States. The first is that it is forbidden by United States law to take the religion of the natural mother into account when placing a child for adoption. The second is that whenever possible the child should (or even must) be placed with adoptive parents of the same religion as the natural mother. Can any user please tell me which of these two statements is correct. Thank you.Simonschaim (talk) 07:22, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

It is possible that in the case of a child of a Jewish natural mother the guidelines for adoption may take into consideration the special role of matrilinearity in this system. There is a Jewish adoption service (Denver, CO) which states on the webpage "There are, however, many Jewish children in the United States who aren't as lucky." when referring to adoption. Based on this statement, it must be assumed that adoption does not always take into account this specific aspect. Clearly (or so I assume), the procedure would be a different one within Israel. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 12:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Thank you Simonschaim (talk) 04:24, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Grace

I'm editing a piece (the author has long since passed away otherwise I would ask him) that alludes to a relgious group or sect that not only says grace before meals, but recites an appropriate prayer before other daily activities as well, for example going to the toilet/bathroom. Does anyone know what group this might be a reference to?--Shantavira|^{feed me} 09:04, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

All abrahamic religions have this sort of short prayers for every daily act including what you have mentioned, but only the most fanatic believers observe them. --Omidinist (talk) 12:14, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Not all of them have these. -LambaJan (talk) 16:07, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

There are quite a number of situations listed on this page about Orthodox Jewish prayers in daily life. While perhaps only the most strictly observant would perform all of these, Orthodox and many Conservative or even unaffiliated Jews would include some or many in their personal level of observance. Other abrahamic sects, including those small or far enough out of the mainstream to be labeled "cults," might incorporate some or all of these elements in their ritual observance and prayer.-- Deborahjay (talk) 14:26, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

If you would tell us which country the group is in, and even the name of the author, we might be able to be more specific. ៛ Bielle (talk) 17:21, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Indeed: if the author were American, we'd think of Shakers.--Wetman (talk) 19:15, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Well the "author" is just some English person (not a professional writer), but he could have been talking about any country. What he says is that these people "carry this [he is talking about grace] to the extreme and have a little toilet verse. Every single thing they do has an appropriate little verse." Thanks for your responses. I didn't realize these customs were so widespread.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 07:32, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

I've heard it said the early Celtic Christians would have prayers for many everyday activities, but I've never heard of them having a toilet prayer. DJ Clayworth (talk) 17:34, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Eyesore

I came across this article and couldn't make up my mind if it's been written on a serious note, or someone was trying to joke (sic). It'd been nominated for deletion citing it as a dictionary entry, and a consensus couldn't be reached. I personally feel, it's more than a dictionary entry as other aspects like etymology, famous instances of use, etc. could be discussed. It'd be nice if some one with some kind of expertise could look into the article. As of now, it seemingly discusses the term in a very narrow sense of architecture and town-planning, which I'm not sure is accurate or inclusive enough.

Regards.

—KetanPanchal^taLK 09:35, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

I think it's ok.. maybe some extra work would help ?

It certainly fits nicely into a series of articles on 'town planning', 'aesthetics' or 'architecture'

It would be a poorer place without it.87.102.86.73 (talk) 16:00, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm sure the page will improve, slowly over time, if left to its own devices.87.102.86.73 (talk) 16:07, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the head's-up, Ketan. I took a look at the page, which I do consider a good start on a topic of significance, and did a bit of cleanup on its talk page. Then I applied to the Talk page of the Urban planning WikiProject asking that it be evaluated for inclusion in the project, for the sake of attracting the attention of knowledgeable editors who might do some work on it. -- Deborahjay (talk) 16:44, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

If the article only deals with one aspect of the term, perhaps it should be renamed eyesore (town planning). StuRat (talk) 18:53, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Not as I understand page naming. A parenthetical qualifier is only added to a second or subsequent page with the identical name, and not on the page considered primary for the topic (which may not necessarily be the first one created). It's probably covered somewhere among the naming conventions, though a brief look just now didn't yield anything I could cite. For now, I recommend leaving the Eyesore page name as is. -- Deborahjay (talk) 19:22, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

A strictly pejorative term that inherently falls afoul of neutral POV because one generation's "eyesore" is another's treasure. The subject is capable of being fully covered as a question of Taste (aesthetics). Only amateurism keeps the article at Wikipedia. --Wetman (talk) 19:13, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

But here it has a certain legal usage, such that if a structure is deemed to be an eyesore, by a planning commision, city council, or other body, it may be demolished if this isn't remedied in a timely manner. As such, it's not simply a matter of taste, but also has legal consequences for the owner. This is similar to how an insult differs from legal libel. StuRat (talk) 19:18, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

The page even now is developing along the lines StuRat describes. Wetman, this isn't a "List of Eyesores" (which would likely "run afoul" of NPOV as you suggest) but an exposition of the concept of "eyesore" in two aspects indicated by its present categories: Aesthetics and Urban studies and planning. -- Deborahjay (talk) 19:34, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

For me, Eyesore isn't really a subject for an encyclopaedia, more a word (a pejoritive one, as Wetman says) needing a dictionary definition. I've just edited the opening of the lead from "An eyesore is an unpleasant view..." to ""An eyesore is an unpleasant sight..." As a rambling definition, the rest of what's there could be better. Xn4 (talk) 01:21, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for all the replies. I'm pleasantly surprised by the number of replies. I'm not sure if I didn't phrase my query accurately enough, but I (also) wanted to ask if "eyesore" is a term conventionally applied to town planning/aesthetics, or is it a word of common usage? I just looked up the "The Pocket Oxford Dictionary of Current English" (1994), which simply defines it as a noun meaning "an ugly thing". But, searching on Google turned up results that indeed use eyesore almost entirely in context monuments/buildings/landmarks, etc, even though the meaning was almost always close to "an ugly thing". I'm confused by these results. Given these results, may be the article in its current state is alright in dealing with "eyesore". —KetanPanchal^taLK 07:50, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

The word and the notion exist, particularly in relation to the general public's view of Modernist buildings in particular (and anything new and unfamiliar, generally!) so the article should stay. For a more detailed critique, see my edits later on, starting with the numerous errors of fact in this article. For instance its a myth that Harvards Science Centre was designed to look like a polaroid camera. But what really annoys me is the statement about "natural eyesores: faeces, mud, weeds". Thats suburban western POV nonsense that sees no value in fertiliser, compost, swamps, wetlands and successful, but undesirable-in-the-garden plants. Nothing that can't be sorted by severe but well informed editing! Mhicaoidh (talk) 10:20, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks Mhicaoidh for your reply. Well, I for one never thought that this article should be deleted. It was just that I'd never encountered the usage of eyesore specifically in context of architecture or aesthetics. I think I'll be able to explain my (somewhat cleared by now) doubt by giving examples:

1. "This photograph on the mountain is an eyesore in your photo-album"
2. "The red shirt is an eyesore in your wardrobe"
3. "A definite eyesore by Wikipedia standards."—my original usage in Wikipedia that lead to this doubt (see in context). Of course, here I've used it more like "black sheep" rather than an eyesore.

This page with some usages from literature might be helpful. Now, I have no doubt that it can be used in context of architecture, but the doubt is if that is the only/most appropriate context. —KetanPanchal^taLK 11:48, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps this discussion could usefully be moved/copied to the article's talk page. The article needs some sort of cleanup/edit tag (multiple issues?) but I can't decide which one is the most appropriate.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 14:11, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, Shantivira! —KetanPanchal^taLK 16:58, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

About His Person by Simon Armitage

Yes, this is homework. I have thoroughly analysed the poem and understand most of it, but some things still elude me:

1. What is the significance, if any, of the amount of change - "five pounds fifty"?

2. Similarly, what is the significance, if any, of the date the diary is slashed - "March twenty-fourth to the first of April"?

3. What do the words "mortise" and "kepsake" mean?

Thanks very much. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.186.12.8 (talk) 10:25, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

3 - see mortise lock, and kepsake is surely a typo for keepsake. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 10:33, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

2 - I don't know either the poem or the poet's dates, but that week would have been approximately the first week of the year in the 'Old Style' calendar in the UK - see Lady Day and the Julian calendar links from there. WikiJedits (talk) 16:09, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Reply to Question 1: First, [3]here is a link to the poem, should anyone else have further ideas. Second, the five pounds fifty, being an amount of the modern era - Simon Armitage still lives- is physically somewhat weighty, but monetarily meagre. The subject of the poem had very little of the world's goods with him when he died. (The poem does not say he is dead, but that is usually when such inventories are made. Other possible times are at a hospital or at a police station.) ៛ Bielle (talk) 17:18, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

people sometime slash through dates on a diary to signify something is going on in that time period and not to make any other appointments then.From the dates I would make a tentative guess at an Easter holiday, but it could also perhaps be a hospital stay.Easter would fit with the theme of death as would a hospital appointment. The money is a small amount ,perhaps indicating poverty.Perhaps it signifies we can take nothing with us when we die or perhaps signifies how little we leave behind, the poet may be saying he is leaving behind nothing of value. I think mortice and keepsake are deliberatly slightly old fashioned words to recall traditional poetry.hotclaws 21:33, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

"Five pounds fifty" is a small amount. Any small amount would convey the same semantics, but this particular amount scans well. The poem is late twentieth century since it mentions an "analogue watch." before that "analogue" is assumed, and after that "digital" is ubiquitous. Depending on the precise year, "analogue" might indicate that the person is older or that the person had been wealthier and has now fallen on hard times. -Arch dude (talk) 02:07, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Digital is ubiquitous? I can't remember the last time I saw someone wearing a digital watch. 79.66.54.186 (talk) 11:32, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

FDIC bank and financial institution ranking systems

What does CAMEL stand for in the FDIC bank rating system? Does the FDIC CAEL system replace CAMEL? What are the ways to find current bank ratings on the net other than Bankrate.com? Which ones are free and which ones cost money? Thanks, Ch —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cherwoodard (talk • contribs) 12:51, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

"The acronym “CAMEL” stands for Capital, Assets, Management, Earnings, and Liquidity, five components of a bank’s financial operation that are examined by the regulators. In the late 1990s a sixth component was added to the CAMEL rating system, recognizing bank and thrift Sensitivity to interest-rate or market risk (CAMELS). CAMELS ratings are assigned on a scale of 1 to 5 with 1 being the highest and 5 the lowest. Because the empirical portions of our analysis relate to ratings assigned before the late 1990s, we reference the five-component rating system in effect at that time." FDIC. (This, by the way, was the first hit on Google for "fdic rating camel".) OtherDave (talk) 15:08, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Hedonic treadmill and things other than money

Does the hedonic treadmill occur for happiness factors other than money and material goods (e.g. sex, fame, power, importance of accomplishments)? Might it be a contributing factor in cannabis's reputation as a "gateway drug"? NeonMerlin 19:26, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

From experience yes,don't know,yes,yes and yes..

I think it's well documented that some drug users move on to harder drugs for greater highs..

Did you want references?87.102.86.73 (talk) 19:45, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Unnamed Mongolian Building

What's the name of the building pictured in question two of this quiz? Thanks, --MagneticFlux (talk) 19:46, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

It's the Ghengis Khan monument in Sükhbaatar Square in Ulan Bator [4] [5] -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 19:51, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Strictly the building is the State Ceremonial Palace and the statue is Ghengis. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 19:53, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Identification of soldier from the Second World War

The photograph is of a soldier during the Second World War. Can any user please identify details about this soldier, e.g. country, unit, etc. Thank you. Simonschaim (talk) 20:09, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Looks like a member of the British airborne forces, judging by the Pegasus shoulder flash. I'm still trying to track down the other insignia. - Eron^Talk 21:35, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes, the soldier looks like a member of the Parachute Regiment. Unfortunately, the uploading of the WW2 soldier's image overwrote the image used in an existing article in an inappropriate manner. Please reupload the image using a different name, and change the image on the right to the new name. Astronaut (talk) 23:34, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Simonschaim uploaded the image to 3 names and only one of them overwrote an existing image. I picked one of the others. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:49, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

I am sorry, someone else did the uploading for me and any overwriting was unintentional. This person informs me that he has no idea how to correct it. Simonschaim (talk) 04:34, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Don't worry. Astronaut already fixed the overwritten image, and in this section I linked to an image your account uploaded correctly so you don't have to do reupload or do anything else now. PrimeHunter (talk) 04:39, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Back to the image itself, what I find interesting is that the cap badge looks like that of the British Army parachute regiments, but it is lacking the lion and crown on top. (see this to compare.) I don't know if there was a point, early in their history, when the airborne forces of the British Army wore such insignia, or if this is someone from an allied force that wasn't under the Crown. - Eron^Talk 05:14, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Once again I apologise for the unintentional overwriting and thank you for putting it right. Also I thank the users for their answers to my question. I have now looked again at the original photograph and it seems that on the upper band on the soldier's arm is written the word France. Is this possible? Thank you. Simonschaim (talk) 06:28, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes. If you look at the wings on the man's sleeve, they don't really look like the Image:Wings.JPG, the British parachute badge. This page about the Free French SAS shows a variety of styles of jump wings, cap badges and Battle Dress. I don't think it shows anything exactly like the picture, but some are pretty close. Angus McLellan (Talk) 11:22, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

The jacket shown about 4/5ths the way down on the page you linked to looks to be the very same. Fribbler (talk) 14:19, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

And, there is a cap badge on the page that looks identical as well. That page also shows a black beret worn by Free French SAS; the beret in the picture does seem a little dark to be a maroon beret as worn by the British. So, it looks like this is a picture of a French paratrooper from the Second World War. - Eron^Talk 18:23, 14 July 2008 (UTC)e

It definitely says France on the shoulder. Maxatl (talk) 00:58, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Thank you Simonschaim (talk) 10:13, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

July 14

From where did photo "bunny ears" originate?

When a group of people get their picture taken, invariably someone gives another person "bunny ears"; Making a "V" or peace sign with their hand and holding it behind the head of another person (usually without their knowledge). Where did this practice come from? Does it have an official name? --70.167.58.6 (talk) 06:58, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Haven't read it in a while but the V sign article may interest you. Dismas|^(talk) 13:03, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

"The History of Bunny Ears", from a link in the V sign article. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 15:24, 14 July 2008 (UTC) Actually, now that I actually read the article... it's obviously meant to be a joke. My guess is that you won't get bunny ears until you have very cheap photography—early photography was too cumbersome and expensive to warrant ruining a photo with bunny ears. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 17:39, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Not to mention holding the V sign for a minute or longer isn't the most comfortable of things to do Nil Einne (talk) 18:47, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

This is a great question. I hope somebody has a good answer! Шизомби (talk) 00:39, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

The two fingers indicate the horns of a cuckold. --Wetman (talk) 00:52, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

relative popularity of different Buddhism sects in Japan

Where can I find rough estimates of the number of adherents to the different Buddhist paths described in Buddhism in Japan? I ask because when I see an article like this one, I'm confused about what sect(s) it's talking about. It's as if these practices, such as buying posthumous Buddhist names, occur across the board... but this would surprise me, because I have the impression that sects like Pure Land and Zen are radically different. --Allen (talk) 07:33, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

perfect compatetion

what is maent by perfect compatetion in economics?give examples117.193.36.7 (talk) 11:29, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

See Perfect competition. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 11:39, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Royal Marriage

redirected from Wikipedia:Reference desk/Miscellaneous#Royal Marriage.

I wish to read about Royal Marriage however, I wish to read about the institution, inbreeding, and uspurperism, not some card game, any advice? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.115.175.247 (talk) 11:59, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Royal family gives some useful links to specific examples

perhaps List of family trees may also be usefull as well.

Inbreeding#Royalty_and_nobility is particularily helpful.

usurperism? we have List of usurpers. 87.102.86.73 (talk) 12:16, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Rear facade (?) of a monument

The structure in question is a memorial monument that was designed to be approached and viewed from several angles. Different texts are engraved on front and back. What would be the proper terms—perhaps equivalent to "obverse" and "reverse" in numismatics—to refer to these two aspects? At present, neither the article on memorials nor monuments addresses this matter of nomenclature; where else might I have looked? -- Thanks, Deborahjay (talk) 12:26, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Architects user the term "elevation" when creating plans (i.e. Front Elevation, Rear Elevation, or West Elevation etc.) This could, I expect, be used for monuments. Fribbler (talk) 12:34, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Oh! I neglected to indicate that the text is for a lay readership and ideally the terms would be close to common parlance. I'm trying to avoid "back side" or "rear" if something more appropriate exists...? -- Deborahjay (talk) 12:56, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, I don't think theres a non-technical word word for this that's in general use. You could say, if you wanted to avoid using "back of" or "rear", "the side of the monument facing x bears the inscription Fribbler woz ere" or some such. Where x is either a direction (North) or a nearby landmark (Eifel Tower). Fribbler (talk) 13:03, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

If it's for lay use, "near side" and "far side"? Or "north side" and "south side" (or east and west, etc) as Fribbler suggests. Neıl ☄ 13:39, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Alas, my source is a photograph—one in a series of hundreds— lacking any external reference point. In some cases, in fact, it's only a model, not viewed in situ. The designation of "front" or otherwise is indicated (if at all) in a rather sketchy note. My task is to describe salient features, hopefully evoking their significance. -- Deborahjay (talk) 13:47, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

"Front-facing" and "rear-facing"? Neıl ☄ 13:57, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Why not just tell us what "monument" you're talking about, —is it a bozzetto for a sculpture?— you might even give us a link to an illustration on the Internet? Then we can make sensible suggestions. "Viewer's right" is usually assumed in "right side" unless a statue's own left-hand side, etc. are specified. --Wetman (talk) 00:49, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Imagine an upright stone or slab, resembling or serving as a freestanding plaque, with no additional figurative or other sculptural element (though some have these as well). The one I'm working on now can be viewed here by entering Catalog No. 48349 (the front is No. 48347) and deselecting all "databanks" except for Photo Archive. In this case there's definitely a primary and secondary face, but I'm not keen on those descriptors, hence my query here. -- Deborahjay (talk) 05:31, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Queen of Sheba Crown Jewels

Are the Jewels in a church in Axum? I have photos supposed to be the jewels72.67.69.250 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 21:32, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Neither Aksum nor Queen of Sheba mentions this; indeed, neither article mentions the other. Since she must have lived at lest 500 years before the Kingdom of Aksum's rise to power, and a thousand years before there were any churches there, it seems unlikely, though not impossible. --ColinFine (talk) 23:49, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Well, they claim to have the Ark of the Covenant there too... Adam Bishop (talk) 01:10, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

name of statue

Hello,

Can you please tell me the name of this statue[http:// img177.imageshack.us/img177/7336/damagess01e01vostfrdvdrtj5.jpg]? it appears during the theme of the tv show "damages"

thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.72.132.205 (talk) 23:12, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

I can't get the link to work. Any helpful ideas out there? ៛ Bielle (talk) 23:44, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Thought I fixed it, but WP says it is Spam. Any more ideas out there?

Just copy the url img177.imageshack.us/img177/7336/damagess01e01vostfrdvdrtj5.jpg to the browser address bar. Some browsers may require http:// in front. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:52, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Africa, one of the Four Continents at the Alexander Hamilton U.S. Custom House, New York. Daniel Chester French, sculptor. --Wetman (talk) 23:54, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

I did some research using your lead and it's actually Asia, not Africa. Well done, Wetman !! thanks.

Subject is on Mary (the Mother of God)

To Whom it may Concern

My question is on Mary. Any of the many "non catholic" faiths say we worship her.

In my opinion we only honor her as being the greatest of all saints. Asking her to take our prayers to her son, isn't any different then I praying for someone I know. Isn't there someway I convince someone that we do not "worship" her as we do God "through his son? Please advise! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.75.162.167 (talk) 23:56, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

We have an article, Marian doctrines of the Catholic Church, which might be of use, if only in clarifying your own position. But I'm not sure we can really help with convincing some guy none of us know. Algebraist 00:01, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Specific concept is Hyperdoulia... AnonMoos (talk) 03:06, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Similarly unlikely to convince someone who thinks otherwise, the Cathechism of the Catholic church (e.g., 970: ""No creature could ever be counted along with the Incarnate Word...," 970: "This very special devotion . . . differs essentially from the adoration which is given to the incarnate Word ...") OtherDave (talk) 15:19, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

July 15

Can anyone please put a name to the royal sword?

This image] (at royal.gov.uk) displays one of the five coronation swords. Does anyone know which one it is? I have established that it is not the Jewelled Sword of state (also known as the Jewelled sword of offering) as this one has elaborate Roses, Thistles and Shamrocks, worked into it. I personally lean towards (Great) Sword of State. I think it rather odd that the caption doesn't say, but there you go... Thanks for any help! --217.227.119.116 (talk) 08:48, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Solved, it's the Sword of State. See here. --Cameron* 09:23, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Suggestions for book

I am currently writing a book that presents two fictional tales as translated historical texts (complete with a realistic preface and footnotes). However, I am trying to think of a way to convey the stories are fictional without sacrificing realism. I guess I could have a disclaimer in the front, but some people may skip over that. I would hate to be accused of trying to defraud the scholar community with forgeries. Thoughts? --Ghostexorcist (talk) 09:56, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

If you put a disclaimer in the front, you aren't trying to defraud anyone. If they don't read the disclaimer, it's their own fault. Dismas|^(talk) 10:11, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

A genuine factual work (or good attempt at forgery!) would have more info on you as editor (rather than author) and the translators track records. I presume the bio about you on the inside back cover and other publisher publicity would be genuine: "this first novel by Ghist..." rather than faked? "Ghist's years of experience in the field of historical...". Thats where I would look to suss the book. Mhicaoidh (talk) 10:31, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

You might like to have a look at a copy of Dictionary of the Khazars, a novel taking the form of a reference book. If you don't know it, I can recommend it. Your book sounds great too. Itsmejudith (talk) 10:55, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

This is basically what Umberto Eco did with The Name of the Rose and Baudalino. Adam Bishop (talk) 11:00, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

According to the Dictionary of the Khazars page, my book is a type of metafiction false document. Since this will be my first novel, the flap and or book description would have to list my actual credentials and note the book is fiction, but presented as fact. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 11:14, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

The publishers will have their own ideas about how best to market your book to a fiction readership. If they wanted to put it out in hardback only at $100 dollars a copy like an academic textbook, then I don't think you'd be best pleased. Itsmejudith (talk) 11:23, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

On the contrary, hardback followed by trade paperback is much better career and moneywise than mass market paperback. Mhicaoidh (talk) 11:56, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Oh, yes, thanks. I was thinking of hardback only. Itsmejudith (talk) 00:38, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

See "The Princess Bride". It was marketed as a translation of the "good parts" of an older book. Nowhere in the book did it claim that there was no older book. Nowhere did it claim that the "translator" was actually the author. The only remote hint was the introductory bio about the translator - which was full of factual errors. Reviewers considered it a funny joke and got in on it by reviewing not only the translation but the original (non-existent) book and sometimes other work by the original (non-existent) author. In the end, writing false statements about history is common. I went through many years of back and forth with editors on a novel I wrote. It contained a lot of revisionist history to give alternate sources for events through the 60's and 70's. -- kainaw™ 12:30, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

You title it, "My wonderful book ... a novel" and leave it at that. If your audience is too daft to figure that out, well... compare with something like Nabokov's Lolita, which has an elaborate preface about "finding" the book or something along those lines, which is of course totally false. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 14:39, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

If you want to do it in an artsy way, you could leave hints in the actual text of the book. For instance adding some elements of magical realism, writing in an unusual way, or writing about dubious historical events. --S.dedalus (talk) 23:51, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Read the Preface to Gulliver's Travels, imitating similar prefaces in contemporary books of travels. The modern literary brouhaha over David Selbourne's alleged "translation" of a certain Jacob of Ancona's travels in C13 China, something you want to avoid, was lightly touched by Nicholas Kristoff in this NY Times piece].--Wetman (talk) 00:04, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

So as not to spoil the fun at the outset, you could try a disclaimer in an afterword (rather than in a preface), as Crichton did in Eaters of the Dead. Some folks will still be confused, of course, unless the fiction is blatant, as in the recent "biography" The Remarkable Millard Fillmore, which claims to be based on the 53 volumes of Fillmore's recently discovered journals (as well as his napkin doodles), and in an early footnote tells us that Millard rhymes with dullard rather than retard. —Kevin Myers 04:00, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

I really don't think there's any problem with a book pretending that the fiction is real and doing so all across the board. There's a world of difference between doing that and defrauding people; the book can still be marketed and sold as fiction, for example. It would be a different story if all marketing efforts and promotional material presented the material as non-fiction. -- Captain Disdain (talk) 18:40, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

This is a common path. I'm surprised we don't have a page on it -- oh, we do: False document. One of my favourites is the debut of Flashman: George MacDonald Fraser presented his first novel as papers found in a trunk in an attic, and fooled many of the American reviewers, see here. BrainyBabe (talk) 16:38, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Ordination

Hi. A friend of mine recently became engaged and, having watched an episode of Friends, asked me if I could investigate becoming ordained in order to perform the marriage. Now, first of all, I'm not sure if this is legal in our country, England, and wondered if anyone here could shed any light on the situation. Secondly, my family is Catholic, while his is Anglican. Therefore, by association, I would call myself a Catholic and he a Protestant but, since neither of us actively practise our religion, could I become a Cathgolic minister and marry him and his fiance in a Protestant Church? Thanks 92.2.122.213 (talk) 14:40, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Nothing is impossible, but, unless your friend has a belief in really long engagements, the process that takes you to becoming a Catholic priest, which is, I believe, the lowest level at which marriage can be performed as a rite of the Catholic church, is likely to last longer than most marriages. There are courses for people to become Celebrants in the U.S. and Celebrants can perform marriages in some places, but the religious basis is not Catholic, Roman or otherwise. You could do what two members of my family have done: be married by a civil authority, quiettly, and then by an actor playing a priest/minister whatever in front of the massed crowds that seem to accumulate for such events. You could then be the actor. Just a thought. ៛ Bielle (talk) 14:52, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Not that it's really relevant to 92.2 (as it's pretty clear that in this country they're going to have to settle for one legal and one showy ceremony if they want to do this, meaning they don't need to be ordained), but a Deacon can perform the marriage ceremony in the Catholic Church. From the article Catholic marriage "In the Roman Catholic tradition, it is the spouses who are understood to confer marriage on each other. The spouses, as ministers of grace, naturally confer upon each other the sacrament of matrimony, expressing their consent before the church. This does not eliminate the need for church involvement in the marriage; under normal circumstances, canon law requires the attendance of a priest or deacon and at least two witnesses for validity (see canons 1108-1116).". 79.66.54.186 (talk) 00:24, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Online ordinations are usually by the Universal Life Church, which sued to be recognized as a real church in the US and can now do whatever they want. I'm not sure they would have any legal standing in England though, so they might be disappointed to find they aren't married at all. It would definitely have absolutely zero standing in the Catholic or Anglican churches. It shouldn't be too difficult to get married in an Anglican church in England, should it? I know the Catholic church makes it an enormous pain in the ass if both parties aren't practising Catholics, but do the Anglicans do that too? In Canada the usual compromise is to get married in a United church, but I don't suppose you have those over there. As Bielle said, getting married in a civil ceremony is simple and easy (and cheap!), you don't need a church involved at all. Adam Bishop (talk) 15:55, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

No, Anglicans (in England) don't usually make a fuss about both parties being Anglican. Many don't worry about the religious beliefs of the couple at all. I think you will also find that you can't be married by just any old person who claims to have a religious qualification - they also have to be licensed to perform marriages.

If your friends really want someone not licensed for marriage to perform the ceremony what I would suggest is to have both a personal and a legal ceremony. In the personal ceremony you can do whatever you want, have it performed by anybody you like, and hold it anywhere. The legal part just consists of going down to a registry office, saying a few words in front of some witnesses and signing some forms. DJ Clayworth (talk) 17:29, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Interestingly England doesn't currently recognise non-religious celebrants it seems. See [6] and [7]. In NZ, they do exist although it isn't something handed out like candy, see [8] and is not intended for someone who just wants to marry their friend. However there are courses you can do to help you learn how to conduct a ceremony [9]. It sounds like similar things are offered by the BHA although you could just design the wedding plan with your friends, perhaps together with an existing celebrant if you want it fairly formal and aren't sure how to go about it, instead of bothering with a course since your needs are fairly specific. Nil Einne (talk) 19:06, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Also bear in mind, that "dressing up" as a Catholic / Protestant / Rabbi / Mullah (as suggested by Bielle) may lead to some spectacular events if militant fundamentalist brethren of such denominations are present. User:Dismas may be able to shed light on the dim fate of his neighbour, whose life expectancy was adversely affected by such behaviour.

Mind you, if you want 92.2.122.213 to be a household name in two millennia, you may decide in favour of such thespian impersonations of ordained Gurus. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 21:33, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

"The Game" by Neil Strauss

How will I know if someone trying to use this on me? What should I look out for if some guy is trying to use the the techniques in the book "The Game" by Neil Strauss?

If possible, please list examples. Thanks! --JennaHunter (talk) 15:43, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

According to our article on The Game: Penetrating the Secret Society of Pickup Artists, the primary "technique" is to show disinterest in women you are interested in. Not exactly the secret of the ages—ever hear of "playing hard to get"?—but okay, I guess most men are unable and unwilling to pretend they are uninterested when they are, in fact, interested.

So yeah. Watch out for that. People who appear to be uninterested in you, but are probably actually interested in you. I guess. I really wouldn't fret over it much. If you're worried about doing something you'd rather not do, set ground rules ahead of time for your behavior and stick to them no matter what you might feel at the moment. If you're worried about disingenuous men, just take the time to get to know the person in question—authenticity is usually pretty clear where you find it, and superficiality is also pretty obvious if you are looking for it. Beware of "cool" that is not backed up with intelligence, a little earnestness, and respect. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 16:43, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Incidentally, that article is a POS. "is a book of non-fiction which was among the first to expose the seduction community to the mainstream public". Say what? Nil Einne (talk) 18:40, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

I found it pretty amusing. Does the guy really want to know why (some) girls seem interested in rock stars? I mean, it's not that hard to figure out. Money, fame, parties, etc... you don't need a "method" if you've got those! --140.247.241.142 (talk) 19:33, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

There are examples listed in our article Seduction community, and there may be more in the references cited therein. You'll discover from that article that a guy who touches you or who engages in humorous banter might be trying to pick you up. I can inform you, however, that some of us do these things even without having read Strauss. It may be difficult for you to determine who's applying techniques from the book. Just out of curiosity, if you knew that someone were trying to use this on you, how would you react? JamesMLane t c 20:37, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

And when guys try to apply techniques (like touching) that they read somewhere, it can be just weird. Without having read any of this stuff at the time, I still recognised a clumsy attempt to manipulate when a guy did this to me. My reaction? Creepy loser. Which is a shame because he may have been a perfectly nice guy who just thought it would help at the beginning. But it gives me a gut reaction of the guy viewing women as lesser creatures, to be manipulated for pleasure. And gut reactions affect relationships. 79.66.90.252 (talk) 13:36, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Globus cruciger

Orb 1

Orb 2

Hey it's me again! Does anyone know what the plural of globus cruciger is? Thanks, --217.227.119.116 (talk) 17:54, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Globi crucigeri. Deor (talk) 18:17, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Which of these two orbs, is the british Sovereign's Orb? Is the other one the Small Orb made for Mary II? Thanks, --217.227.119.116 (talk) 18:55, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Orb 1, identifiable in the engraving by the amethyst on which the jewelled cross stands, is the "King's Orb", made by Sir Robert Vyner for Charles II and kept with the Crown Jewels in the Tower: ("The King's Orb"). "Orb 2" looks like a different, less accurate engraving of the same.--Wetman (talk) 23:42, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

The amethyst not being octagonal and the shapes of the gems on orb 2 makes it appear to be a different orb. Maybe it is just a less accurate version...--Cameron* 08:34, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Sallie Middleton "Red Throated Hummingbird" print

I purchased a limited edition numbered print by Sallie Middleton at a thrift store. It is entitled "Red Throated Hummingbird". Does anyone have any info on this print? Is it worth anything? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.63.171.155 (talk) 19:20, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

http://www.salliemiddleton.com/current_values.html will give you some idea, albeit this may well be the artist/agent trying to talk up her work's market value. --Tagishsimon (talk) 19:26, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Middle-aged white rappers?

Are there any of note? I know Vanilla Ice is probably getting old now, but that doesn't really count. --81.77.168.61 (talk) 23:52, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

The Beastie Boys are in their 40s, I believe. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 01:01, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Everlast probably qualifies. The Beastie Boys certainly do. And actually, even Eminem is in his mid-thirties now, though I guess that doesn't quite count as middle-aged. There are probably others as well. -- Captain Disdain (talk) 01:04, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Kid Rock is 37. (Both he and Eminem are from Michigan, which apparently now produces more middle-aged white rappers than it does cars.) StuRat (talk) 05:19, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

35 is admittedly half way to 70 ("three score and ten"), but these days I doubt anyone gets called "middle-aged" till they're at least 50. -- JackofOz (talk) 06:37, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Deborah Harry is more than middle aged. Her rap song, which was also made into a video, topped the U.S. charts. Dismas|^(talk) 06:48, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Debs raps on one (poss. two - been a while since I listened to it) song on the most recent Blondie album too. Which begs the question as to whether there are any other middle-aged white women who rap. I certainly can't think of any. --Kurt Shaped Box (talk) 10:24, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Slug of Atmosphere is about to turn 36, MC Serch is probably nearly 40, Aesop Rock is 32, Mike Shinoda is 31, Necro is 32, El-P is 33, Ill Bill is supposedly 36.--droptone (talk) 12:40, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

"Middle aged" really means "at least ten years older than I am." OtherDave (talk) 15:23, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

July 16

How many light-skinned African Americans and dark-skinned African Americans?

There are some African Americans with lighter skin and some with darker skin. Does anyone know how many lighter- skinned African Americans and very dark-skinned African Americans? What are the percentages of the light-skinned African Americans and darker-skinned African Americans. Please provide a source link if you can. Thanks.Sonic99 (talk) 01:32, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Information, to be retrieved, must first be gathered and stored. How do you suppose such statistics on this topic would have been obtained in the first place? -- Deborahjay (talk) 01:42, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

The skin colour of African American is likely a continuum and may even be almost a bell curve so asking for the percentages of light-skinned and darker skinned African Americans is meaningless (it's like, asking for the percentage of Americans who are smart and the percentage of Americans who are dumb) Nil Einne (talk) 11:20, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Just because there is a continuum doesn't mean that the phenomenon is unmeasureable. There are plenty of proxy measures for "smart" vs. "dumb." Further, not only is the skin color a continuum, being African-American vs. Caucasian is also a continuum. One can be (for example) one-tenth African ancestry and nine-tenths European ancestry. While the person may self-identify as "African-American," in fact the person lies only one-tenth the way along the continuum. Wikiant (talk) 11:59, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

What Wikiant is describing is called hypodescent. Because of other, not entirely unrelated social pressures, many blacks in the U.S. will avoid the sun because there are perceived social benefits both within and outside of the black community for being fairer skinned. Many very much ascribe to this while many others, particularly recent immigrants and people who have pride for themselves nomatter what anyone thinks (thank God), don't make any efforts to avoid the sun. The ability to get a relatively large amount of sun without burning enables darker skinned people to vary several observable shades depending on how much of a tan they have. These factors make any kind of relevant scientific study nearly impossible, in my estimation. I think you should really look at the purpose for the data and ask if it's really needed and what other kinds of ways you can get some useful data. It might be possible to do a genealogy study if races are marked on documents. The only problem is they only go back so far. That's why black families who've been here a long time can seldom trace back past slavery. -LambaJan (talk) 12:30, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Historically when measuring skin tone, anthropologists look at places that don't have exposure to the sun (skin under armpits, etc.) to avoid having tanning throw things off. I don't know if anyone has done a systematic study of African-American skin tone lately, but they did them all the time in the early 20th century. I don't know if it would be a simple bell curve—it has to do with a variety of factors, including breeding with Caucasians, which is something that has gone on for centuries but has long been taboo to discuss. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 13:57, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

You seem to have missed the point. Sure there are ways to to it, e.g. if you define anyone with an IQ 120 and over as smart, and anyone with an IQ under 120 as dumb. BUT you need to actually define something first. You can 'tsimply ask how many people are smart or dumb without first defining what you mean by smart and dumb. Similarly, if the question asker wants to know how many dark skinned and light skinned people there are, he or she has to define what he/she means by dark skinned and light skin first before we can start. And when you actually start to define something is when you realise how dumb it is to use meaningless words when you are actually asking something specific. Instead of saying "how many smart Americans are there and how many dumb Americans are there" which is pretty silly since there could be an infinite number of definitions of smart and dumb, not to mention it doesn't make sense for most people that you're either smart or dumb you should simply ask, what percentage of Americans have an IQ 120 or higher? Similar if you're going to come up with some arbitary definition of dark skinned and light skinned people, you might as well simply ask, what percenmtage are darker then a brown paper bag (or whatever you want)? Nil Einne (talk) 17:42, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

50.0001% of African Americans are "dark skinned," and 49.9999% are "light skinned." Or, is it the other way around? DOR (HK) (talk) 12:48, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia has several articles which have some information related to this question, if not a complete and direct answer. See Race in the United States , Historical definitions of race , Black people , Human skin color and Von Luschan's chromatic scale. See Colorism, which discusses the "blue vein test" and "brown paper bag test" applied as a skin color criteria by light skinned African Americans who discriminated against dark skinned African Americans. Skin color was also an admission criterion at some black colleges in the 19th century, such as Howard University [10]. These thresholds might be something like what the questioner means. A still lighter skin color would be that required to "pass"[11] as white, a social phenomenon aparently unique to the U.S., sinnce most coutries would consider such a person (with perhaps 1/8 or less African ancestry to "BE" white. See Social interpretations of race , Race in the United States , Racial and ethnic demographics of the United States. It is likely that early twentieth century Eugenics researchers compiled statistics on skin color of Americans, so there might be some statistical data from that era as part of Scientific racism. The eugenicists and anthropoligists of the late 19th and early through mid 20th centuries published atlases of skin piigmentation. See Carleton S. Coon for one such race theorist who published a number of books on the topic of race. This area of research fell out of favor in the later 20th century, since it lent itself to theories of racial superiority. Time magazine [12] in 1954 discussed the skin color variations of American Negroes and how ones with dark skin were decreasing in number due to interracial mating. The assertion by Nil Einne that the question is meaningless is not in accord with published research where "light skinned" versus "dark skinned" was a variable in the research, such as "Human Behavior in the Social Environment from an African-American Perspective," 2007,by Lee [13], page 160, or " The Black Image in the White Mind: Media and Race in America" 2000, by Entman and Rojecki, page 178 [14]. The latter found that "light skinned" versus "dark skinned" was a reliable coding criterion for raters to use. Perhaps someone at a college can get online access to the [15] National survey of black Americans" which seems to have some data on discrimination as related to skin color. Edison (talk) 16:45, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Okay. I should be more specific. How many African Americans are there today, who have light skin tone like Collin Powell and dark skin tone like 50 cents, Curtis James Jackson III? Sonic99 (talk) 00:32, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Um... What about those in between? Where do they fit in? (If you compare thw two side by side, you'd find their skin tone is quite different meaning there are likely a large number inbetween.) Nil Einne (talk) 19:55, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

You need something empirical, like a melanin count per square centimeter or some kind of light/color reading, like luminous flux or whatever's most appropriate. When the readings come in you make semi-arbitrary categories. That's basically what those metrics Edison was talking about do. If you have some kind of chromatic scale it's basically a more sophisticated version of the paper bag test he mentioned; an arbitrary delineation in a continuous spectrum (it's not even that when you consider different observable mixes of yellow and red). -LambaJan (talk) 15:01, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

If I want to go to law school, what should I earn my bachelor's degree in?

I'm a high school graduate and I am thinking that I would like to go to law school and become an attorney. What are the possible majors I can choose from during my first four years of college before I go to law school. I'm thinking of either a government or history major.--68.93.134.252 (talk) 02:43, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

How about Political Science with a minor in American History?--Wetman (talk) 02:56, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

It depends entirely on the area of law you want to practice. For example, if you intend on being a patent lawyer for a computer hardware company, you may want to know a little bit about computer hardware before starting law school. -- kainaw™ 03:25, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

A good friend of mine is in law school right now. His Bachelor's degree is in philosophy.... Dismas|^(talk) 06:40, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Economics majors score higher on the LSAT than other majors (including pre-law and criminal justice). See this for data and sources. Also, lawyers who have undergraduate degrees in economics earn more than lawyers with undergrad degrees in other fields. See this for data and sources. Wikiant (talk) 12:05, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

The actual study tells a slightly different story. You can read it here. Short summary: "Economics placed third behind physics/math and philosophy/religion in a group of 29 disciplines in both years", although economics was the highest when comparing majors with 2,000 or more applicants. Not to get too off-topic.--droptone (talk) 12:17, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Also a few other notes, (a) (I believe) the study used data from one school and thus has questionable validity (since certain schools tend to have specialties which may have a self-selection effect) although an n of 75k is better than an n of "your friends" and (b) picking a major based on scores people in those majors receive on standardized tests (and only using these sorts of questionaire-type studies) is foolish given the lack of control of causality (i.e. are certain people predisposed to picking major X over Y and if so then do those same people tend to score higher on the LSAT over those who major in Y). I'd suggest majoring in whatever you want but taking plenty of elective courses that deal with legal issues (history of Supreme Court decisions, philosophy of law, logic, etc) and taking classes that deal with issues that are in the area you hope to specialize in (environmental law -> environmental studies, bioethics type law -> biology/pre-med, intellectual copyright -> maybe some computer science courses).--droptone (talk) 12:59, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

In all honesty, the field of your bachelor's degree has little-to-nothing to do with admission to (or success in) law school. (1) This is why there is no "standard" pre-law "major". (2) Law schools look for diversity in their incoming class. Quite frankly, in law school, everyone and their brother is a poli/sci or history major. They are a dime a dozen, and law schools are intrigued by students "different" from this norm. When I went to law school, there were majors as diverse as music, art, foreign language, nursing, biology, chemistry, math, computers, and the like. Your major is one of the last (and least) variables considered. More important is the breadth/depth of your academic studies, its academic rigor, and your academic success. The actual major itself is virtually immaterial. That being said, ironically (in light of comments above), I majored in economics. (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 15:30, 16 July 2008 (UTC))

It would also be a good idea to choose a major that will serve you well (in terms of your interest and employment prospects) if you change your mind about law school. A lot can change in four years. -- Coneslayer (talk) 15:56, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

I think it's quite surreal that you Americans need to have this conversation. I got my bachelor's in law! AndyJones (talk) 17:07, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Precisely, I was unsure going in, so chose Communication, which is good for law, business, and a variety of other things. It has also helped since I chose to leave law and enter another field.

AndyJones, you would probably find quite a few things surreal about the American system :-) There are pre-law minors in some colleges, but I'm not sure how many.

Which reminds me of something surreal about the question, even from a fellow American - where I went, we didn't have to declare our majors till our Junior years. I took a couple Communication courses before then, but most was within the last 2 years. And, while the College of Wooster doesn't have specific requirements that you have to take your first year, some schools make you even get all your requirements out your first year or so. I did mostly requirements my first year, to get them out of the way.209.244.30.221 (talk) 19:44, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Joseph A. Spadaro. My undergraduate major was in political science. I took two undergrad courses in American constitutional law, but most poli sci majors didn't take them; and, except for those two courses, there was just about no specific bit of information that I picked up that had special relevance in law school. The most important thing is to take courses that will exercise and develop your ability to read and master difficult material, to synthesize facts and ideas from multiple sources, and to explain your thoughts in writing. JamesMLane t c 20:14, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

And I second what James M. Lane says above. The only course that I took in undergrad that was "directly" helpful was a course in Logic. Of course, 99% of the other law students had not taken such course. Thus, it was not a necessity nor a requirement by any means ... but it was absolutely helpful and relevant in a direct sense. (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 22:20, 16 July 2008 (UTC))

Poli sci, history, economics, or (to a lesser extent) philosophy are all standard pre-law majors at all of the places I've been involved with. That doesn't mean it's a good thing to do. What they want are good ability to memorize and strong verbal and analytical skills. You can built those in a lot of different places. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 04:06, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

I don't think memorization is all that important. Many law-school exams are open book. JamesMLane t c 12:12, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Honey, I think a pacifist snuck into the House...

Resolved

 – StuRat (talk) 15:40, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

According to Declaration_of_war_by_the_United_States#Formal_declarations_of_war, one person in the US House of Representatives voted against declaring war on Japan after the Pearl Harbor attacks. Who was it and why did they vote that way ? (I'm guessing that either they were a pacifist or perhaps they were worried that the US would lose.) StuRat (talk) 13:18, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

After a bit of digging, it seems it was Jeannette Rankin, a lifelong pacifist. Fribbler (talk) 13:35, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

The first and last congresswoman from the great state of Montana. Plasticup ^T/C 15:16, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Might be nice info to add to that page as a footnote at least, particularly since it did take a bit of digging. Шизомби (talk) 04:44, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks all. Apparently Rankin felt the political temperature rise after her unpopular WW2 vote, didn't even attempt to run for re-election, and thus was left out in the cold. StuRat (talk) 15:40, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Note that she also voted against World War 1. Edison (talk) 16:04, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes, but while also in a minority then, she wasn't a minority of one, since many others thought the US should avoid getting involved in a "European war". However, that position was completely unacceptable to voters after Pearl Harbor. StuRat (talk) 16:21, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Note also that she also only served two terms in Congress, her first term covering the WWI vote and her second term covering the WW2 vote. But her constituents should have known what they were getting with her, since she ran for her second term on an anti-war platform. Corvus cornix_talk 22:13, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

At the time she was elected, World War II was "just another European war", that the United States was mostly staying out of. --Carnildo (talk) 00:02, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Susan Atkins

I was not sure under which Ref Desk to file this question. When we read about Susan Atkins, reports always indicate that she is the longest serving female inmate in California history (37 years, I believe). This has always confused me. Weren't the whole lot of those young girls (Manson family followers) all arrested in the same time frame ... and aren't they all still imprisoned ... (the "main" players, that is) ...? It would seem that all of these (female) main players would have been arrested on the same day and are still in prison. So, were there some other facts that contribute to Susan Atkins having served more time in total? Thanks. (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 15:37, 16 July 2008 (UTC))

I think she is tied with Patricia Krenwinkel. Leslie Van Houten won a retrial later and was freed on bond for a brief amount of time. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 15:59, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

I just did a little (quick) research. Atkins was incarcerated on October 1, 1969. Krenwinkel was incarcerated on December 1, 1969. Hence, no "tie". And, correct, Van Houten was freed for a brief spell. (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 16:49, 16 July 2008 (UTC))

Oh, you're right. I didn't notice that Krenwinkel was not arrested with the others. (I read Helter Skelter years and years ago, but that detail did not hold fast in my mind, though many others did!) --98.217.8.46 (talk) 04:01, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Great -- but chilling -- book ... I'm reading it, as we speak ... (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 14:10, 18 July 2008 (UTC))

Legal "intent"

There are some crimes where you don't have to actually commit the crime, but only intend to do so, to be charged. Murder is one example, where simply hiring someone you think to be a hit-man is enough to be charged (although the charge is "attempted murder", not "murder"). Child molestation is another, where apparently there doesn't even need to be an actual child involved, for a "perp", lured by someone who the perp thought was under the age of censent, to be charged. With drugs I believe there is "possession of drugs with intent to distribute", but this does require the actual commision of a lesser crime, possession of drugs, to be charged with the greater (intended) crime. Are there any other charges where one can be arrested without actually doing anything illegal, but only intending to do so ? My interest is primarily in the US, but I'd also like to hear about how this is handled in other nations. StuRat (talk) 15:50, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

• I'd just like to point out that the sort of offenses you're talking about are not examples of "being arrested without actually doing anything illegal". Acts like attempted murder, attempted larceny, and conspiracy are things that are illegal; they aren't murder, larceny, etc., but that doesn't mean they aren't crimes. And the same comment applies for soliciting prostitution in jurisdictions where prostitution and soliciting are illegal. --Anonymous, 05:45 UTC, July 18, 2008.

• There's a bit of a semantics issue here. If planning to commit a crime is also called a crime, then what do you call the actual "event", to distinguish from the intent to commit the "event" ? StuRat (talk) 12:27, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Not sure if I completely understand your question nor if I am answering what you are asking. The "event" is referred to as the underlying offense (or crime), or the controlling offense, or the predicate offense. It is the "main" crime upon which the other crime (attempt, conspiracy, etc.) is based. (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 15:24, 17 July 2008 (UTC))

Most jurisdictions have a Conspiracy (crime) law, which of course requires discussions with ohers. The UK's Terrorism Act 2006 has a crime called "Acts Preparatory to Terrorism", whereby stuff that's generally legal (stockpiling ammonium, for example) can become illegal if they can show you were doing so as part of a terrorist plan (even if you're not acting in combination with others). -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 16:00, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Prostitution—if you solicit someone to exchange money for sex, you can get arrested whether or not you actually have sex. And of course conspiracy, the grand-daddy of all intent laws. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 16:00, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

UK (and presumably UK-descended laws) have a crime called "Going equipped to steal", which is being found in possession of equipment useful for burglary (generally of premises, although probably of vehicles too) with the intent to use them to steal. So it's not illegal to own and carry a chisel, a jemmy, or a lockpick, but if you're found walking around a housing estate at 2am with them and a big bag with "SWAG" written on it, you can be done for going equipped. The difference is inferred intent. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 16:05, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Virtually every completed crime (for example, burglary) has a parallel incompleted crime (i.e., attempted burglary). They are called "inchoate" (incomplete) crimes. Here is an example. Say that a man walks into a jewelry store, intending to steal a gold watch. He goes to the counter and asks the sales clerk to let him see the watch. He examines the watch and is about to place it in his pocket and run out of the store. However, at the very last second, he sees a police officer nearby. So, the man just hands the gold watch back to the sales clerk and says, "no, it's not the style I like" (or whatever). Thus, at that very last second, he abandons his plan to steal the gold watch. And he does so only because he sees the police officer nearby. Despite his "abandonment" of the criminal plan, he has already committed a crime. This guy is still guilty of the crime of attempted theft (attempted larceny). If you watched this entire encounter on a videotape, it would look like a normal ordinary customer transaction. You pick up an item, and then you place it back on the shelf. You look at an item, and then you hand it back to the sales clerk. So, it "looks" like he didn't do anything wrong, and it "looks" like he did not commit any crime. But, he did. He committed the crime of attempting to steal the watch (attempted larceny). Because the crime of larceny was not completed (he didn't actually steal the watch), he cannot be charged with (actual) larceny. But he certainly can be charged with the attempt to steal the watch. In this example, of course, proving the charge would be difficult or nearly impossible. Because the "attempt" charge is based on his (intangible) criminal intent, which would be hard to prove and which would be hard to show evidence of. (Now proving the charge is an entirely different matter, altogether. Whether you can prove it or not, in this example, he still committed the crime of attempted larceny.) But, let’s say that this man agreed to (i.e., confessed to) all of these facts as stated above. Then, he would be charged with and convicted of attempted larceny (attempted theft) of the gold watch. (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 16:34, 16 July 2008 (UTC))

For further information I was going to refer you to our article on Locus poenitentiae but, alas, it's still one of the red links in List of legal Latin terms. Briefly, it's the point at which you've gone far enough toward committing the crime that you can be convicted. Consider:

• Defendant cased several jewelry stores to see which one might be vulnerable.
• Defendant rented the apartment above the store he selected as a target, intending to drill down through the floor.
• Defendant purchased a drill.
• Defendant practiced at home with the the drill to get the hang of it.
• Defendant brought the drill to the rented apartment.
• Defendant began drilling through the floor.
• Defendant broke through.
• Defendant entered the jewelry store.
• Defendant took a gold watch and left.

Only the last step is a completed larceny or burglary or whatever it would be. The next-to-last is breaking and entering or some such. My guess is that one of the earlier steps would be considered the locus poenitentiae but I'm not sure which one. We'll have to wait until Joseph writes the article.  :) JamesMLane t c 21:14, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Nice recipe for committing burglary / larceny there, JamesMLane! The short answer is ... the guy would have to do two things: (A) take "substantial steps" (whatever that means) toward commission of the crime and (B) commit "overt acts". Thus, point "A" means that he must move far along on the continuum toward the commission of the crime. In your recipe above, I'd say that that certainly happens at Step 6 (drilling through the floor) ... and it arguably happens much earlier (perhaps at Step 1 even). Point "B" means that the guy must actually take an overt physical action, as opposed to, say, just mentally planning and thinking about the theft. That's the essence of the matter. (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 22:08, 16 July 2008 (UTC))

My recipe purely hypothetical example is based on my dim recollection of a case I read in Criminal Law. I think the guy got to the point of starting to drill, and was held to have reached and passed the locus poenitentiae even though he abandoned the project before his drilling reached the bottom of his floor, let alone the top of the store's ceiling. To make the connection to StuRat's question clear, let me add that criminal intent was crucial here. If he had been drilling a hole so that he could practice his putting on his living-room floor, he would have been acquitted, what with golf not yet formally designated as a felony. JamesMLane t c 02:35, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

That's right, golfers can't be convicted of a felony, as paying that much money to putt little balls into little holes is clear and compelling evidence for an insanity plea. :-) StuRat (talk) 12:37, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

in general is buying fresh fruit and making juice out of it with a juicer cheaper than buying fruit juice directly?

...Or is the value proposition only because it's fresh and you get to work for it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.199.57.103 (talk) 16:59, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Surely this depends, more than anything else, on how much the variables (the store-bought juice, the fresh fruit, and the juicer) cost wherever it is that you live. Over here in Finland, where most fruit is imported? It's absolutely not cheaper. At the other end of the spectrum, if you can get very cheap fruit from a local market or store (or, better yet, if you have a bunch of fruit trees growing in your yard)? It probably is a lot cheaper. -- Captain Disdain (talk) 17:05, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Almost never. In addition to the reasons Captain Disdain mentions, some juices are wholesaled and shipped as concentrates (e.g. FCOJ) - so they don't have to pack and ship the water and peel etc. And, both as normal or concentrate, juices are much easier to industrially handle - they don't rot or bruise, they pack very well together (in regular TetraBrik cartons), and they're of the absolutely uniform quality (or lack thereof) that industry demands. And lastly - the juice of ugly bruised fruit tastes just the same as the juice of really nice pretty fruit. All this makes industrially-produced juice a lot cheaper. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 17:50, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, it's not a money-saving prospect. Obviously if you live next to an orange plantation or something it probably is, but generally a lot of the costs involved in fruit provision come from storage and shipping of fresh fruit - hence, if they juice it and pasteurise it first (even if it isn't concentrated) it's much cheaper and easier to ship it to you in juice form. Fresh-squeezed is noticeably tastier, I find, but it's much more expensive. ~ mazca ^{t | c} 21:41, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

This does assume to a degree you're content with juice from a concentrate. If, like me, you're a juice snob and only want non-concentrate juice, the price doubles. You'll usually find that it's economical to make your own (with overripe or bruised fruit), but it's a lot of work to juice them, even with a juicing machine. 130.56.65.25 (talk) 02:28, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

I agree with most of the previous posts. Other factors to consider are the cost of electricity, the costs of cleaning the juicer, the initial cost of the juicer, and the cost of the fruit that rots to oblivion before it can be "juiced" (bruised or ugly fruit is OK, but not moldy fruit). If you have a very cheap source of fresh fruit, let's say you can save $0.05 per glass of juice. If the juicer costs $50, then it would still take 1000 glasses just to break even. The chances the juicer will break or you will get sick of washing it and stop using it by then are quite high. Also note that juicers often remove some of the best parts of fresh fruit, like the fiber and peel (provided it isn't sprayed with pesticides). StuRat (talk) 12:19, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

If you live in western Europe you can get virtually unlimited quantities of blackberries for free. Well worth having a juicer for. Otherwise, make jam or use to flavour alcoholic drinks. Season starts next month. Itsmejudith (talk) 19:29, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Last year I actually saw some fresh blackberries on sale in a supermarket. I boggled. 79.66.90.252 (talk) 22:30, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Find a scaned version of G.Genette "Metalepse"

Bold textplease, help me to find the text of the French book "Metalepse" written by Gerard Genette. it is extremely important for my scientific work and I can't find this book in Ukraine, the country I live in. PPPPPLLLLEEEEAAAAAASSSSSEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Oksana Melnyk (talk • contribs) 18:55, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

You might get an answer at fr:Wikipédia:Oracle. However, as it says in the gutter of some French books, "la photocopie non autorisée est un délit", and the same is true of scanning books. Apart from anything else, scanning paperbacks risks breaking the spine, and French paperbacks are often poorly bound to start with. Simple-minded person that I am, I'd think that for all it costs, about 19 Euro and postage, you'd be easier buying a copy from Amazon or Alapage. There's an interview with Genette here discussing Metalèpse. Angus McLellan (Talk) 23:06, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Long-term US Government Bond Yield-to-Maturity

Where can I find what the YTM (yield to maturity) was for 30-year US government bonds on June 30th, 2008?24.68.246.113 (talk) 21:38, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Try the US Federal Reserve Board research website. http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/categories/22 DOR (HK) (talk) 13:52, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

No no, the YTM is determined by the market. You'll want a market site. Maybe Bloomberg or something. Give me a second... Plasticup ^T/C 14:04, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

(ec)That's the website for the St. Louis Federal Reserve. I found this at the US Federal Reserve's website under "Research". I think the last line has the information you're looking for. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 14:06, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm sure it is in here somewhere: [16]. Zain Ebrahim's link looks good too. Plasticup ^T/C 14:09, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

I also tried yahoo, google and bloomberg but all I could get was the current YTM. If someone knows how to find historical T-bond data in those sites, I'd appreciate you telling me. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 14:13, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

That page has a "last month" column, as long as that means the end of last month, then that's the number you want. It could be some kind of average, I suppose, but I that's unlikely. --Tango (talk) 20:48, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

I think that might be the YTM for one month ago (i.e. 17 June) but if it changes tomorrow then we'll know for sure. If it is right, then I wonder why it's different from the link at the treasury website. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 21:01, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

It did change. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 19:37, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

July 17

Regarding Japanese history.

Hello Wikipedia editors and contributors,

I would like you to answer a simple question regarding Japanese history, if that is possible. Are there any reliable websites and/or articles regarding European influence on Japan's culture, language and/or political development? If so, could you please show them to me? I would sincerely and greatly appreciate it.

Many thanks in advance,

― Ann _{( user | talk )} 02:56, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

As for the language, see Japanese language#Vocabulary, Gairaigo, Japanese words of Portuguese origin, Japanese words of Dutch origin. and List of gairaigo and wasei-eigo terms. Oda Mari (talk) 05:29, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Abrogation in the Qu'ran; by date, circumstances or free will?

I saw the Channel 4 documentary Qu'ran on Monday and one of the scholars said that he believed that the contradictory passages were to give Moslems the opportunity to think and use free will.

I had not heard this idea before, is it widely accepted? I had heard that some Moslem's believe that abrogated passages should be decided 100% by the order that they were revealed and others believe that they should be decided by circumstance.

By circumstance I mean that passages given in time of peace should be applied in peace time, those given in time of war should be used during war, etc.

Which of these three methods of deciding abrogation are widely held beliefs and which minority views within Islam? -- Q Chris (talk) 11:02, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

It sounds as though belief 1 (thinking and free will) is the same as belief 3 (applying based on the circumstances). Both require freedom, flexibility, and some capacity of rational thought. Ergo belief 2 is likely to be more popular amongst zealots and fundamentalists whilst beliefs 1/3 are more common amongst your everyday Muslims. Like every religion, there is a continuum of belief, with some people being more serious than others. Plasticup ^T/C 12:23, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

1 and 3 are not necessarily the same. If there is a rule "when there is an amber alert launch the doomsday aircraft" and a higher authority decides the state of alert then for the people following the orders there is no free will involved. The way that the "free will" decision was described was that there could be different rules that apply in a state of circumstances and it is up to the individual to decide. The commentator said "Islam wants you to think for yourself" or something like that. -- Q Chris (talk) 13:50, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Very interesting questions. I'll leave a message on Talk:Islam and the Islam wikiproject that there are questions here. There may be more arising from the TV programme. Itsmejudith (talk) 13:10, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

There's an article Naskh (tafsir)... AnonMoos (talk) 22:50, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Shafi'i

Who introduced Shafi'i school of thought to Malaysia and Indonesia, which the malays and the indonesians claimed as Shafi'i Sunni Muslims? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.30.202.29 (talk) 13:53, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Origin of flag-pin wearing by American politicians?

Is there any way of determining when the practice began? I see the US Flag Code 4USC8(j) mentions it "The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart." I suspect it started before that was added, whenever that was added. Шизомби (talk) 14:18, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Recently according to Time magazine: [17] Rmhermen (talk) 15:03, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Good article, thanks! Шизомби (talk) 04:45, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Not a question about nazi IQ

I happened upon this http://www.eskimo.com/~miyaguch/grady/nazi.html - nazi IQ's as you can see. What about other WWII personalities - does anyone know of any data. What about historical figures in general - the bigger the list the better.87.102.86.73 (talk) 14:26, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Simonton, D.K. (2006). Presidential IQ, Openness, Intellectual Brilliance, and Leadership: Estimates and Correlations for 42 U.S. Chief Executives. Political Psychology, Vol 24, No 4, 511-526 estimates the IQ of US presidents. Here is the main data, although please read the methodology before you rush off telling your friends your new findings.--droptone (talk) 01:24, 18 July 2008 (UTC)--

the methodology was in the book right? and not on the internet? Thanks.87.102.86.73 (talk) 10:23, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

It's a journal article, so the methodology is there. This looks like a copy. The purpose of looking at the methodology is so you can have a nuanced understanding of how they came to their estimates and this will hopefully cause you to be more cautious when making bold claims like president X was dumber than president Y.--droptone (talk) 11:48, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. quote "this will hopefully cause you to be more cautious when making bold claims like president X was dumber than president Y" - a bit presumptuous of you..87.102.86.73 (talk) 12:33, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

I meant it generally, but yes, yes it is.--droptone (talk) 16:14, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Actually I was hoping for a world-wide spread of (historical) leaders/figures . . I think I saw something like this a while a go (mostly estimated of course) - does anyone remember this - seems like the sort of thing Time magazine would do? anyones memory jogged??87.102.86.73 (talk) 12:47, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

law

what is the difference between appeal and revision? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.17.229.55 (talk) 17:16, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

An appeal is a request for a change to a decision. Are you referring to a reversion, which is a type of contract? I couldn't find "revision" at law.com or at this legal dictionary. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 19:51, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

How many governors of Virginia are there?

I'm working on List of Governors of Virginia. There are generally four classes of governor: Ones chosen by the state legislature, ones chosen by the voters, acting governors, and military governors. In toto, there have been 81 distinct terms of governor, served by (if my math is right) 66 different men. Ten of these have been acting terms, and two were military terms. Eight or nine were chosen by the legislature.

My dilemma: The official numbering of Tim Kaine, the current governor of Virginia, is 70th. His official website plainly states that he is the 70th governor of Virginia. I am having great difficulty getting the math to work out on this. The only way I can find for there to be 70 governors is if:

1. We ignore the ones chosen by the legislature (popular vote was instituted in the 2nd constitution)
2. We include military governors (so far as I know, no other Southern state does this)
3. We include all acting governors
4. We exclude second distinct terms by people. (that is, if someone served 4 years, then was off 4 years, then served again, we only count him once)

That way, we come up to 70, but that's a pretty roundabout method; most states that exclude second terms also exclude acting governors, and excluding the ones elected under the first constitution also seems odd - especially since many sources mention both Patrick Henry and Beverley Randolph as the first governor of Virginia. (Henry was under the 1st constitution, Randolph was under the 2nd). I sent the governor's office an email but I think their server broke, as all I got back was a blank response. Does anyone know perhaps anyone who works in Virginia history who could pose this question? --Golbez (talk) 17:24, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

One of your problems is that you are trying to do original research in coming up with the "correct" number. To the extent that this question is to lead you to the correct number for the article, you need to take whatever the most reliable published sources say about it. (Verifiability, not truth) If this question is just a matter of personal curiosity, there may well be someone reading here who knows the answer. It is a puzzler all right. ៛ Bielle (talk) 17:33, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Sadly, there are no published sources that I can find online which number the governors. The numbering is solid back to #36, since none of the ones since then have been acting or second terms. But before then is when it gets wonky. And even better, when I google for "2nd governor of Virginia", I get Thomas Jefferson (who was the 2nd one under the first constitution), but when I go for "3rd governor of Virginia", I get results for Thomas Nelson Jr. (3rd under 1st constitution but 4th after an acting governor) AND Robert Brooke. (3rd under 2nd constitution). Sigh. --Golbez (talk) 17:44, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

An interesting question that you should continue to research. It's certainly not "original research" to figure out how Gov. Kaine got to be considered #70, if its properly sourced. (Original research would be if you, for example, decided that he's really #73, or if you gave in the article an educated guess on how they arrived at the number.)

My wild guess is that the numbering emerged in a haphazard way, and only became "official" through conventional usage rather than any system. I know, for example, that some early historians of Virginia didn't realize that William Fleming had briefly served as acting governor. They probably didn't count him, but perhaps did count some acting governor they were aware of. Who knows? If you don't get a good response here, your next step is implied in your question: you say "there are no published sources that I can find online which number the governors." Sounds like it's time to consult some sources that are not online! The Internet and Google Book Search are great, but most—and I do think it's most—sources for serious historical writing can still only be found in the quaint ol' library. —Kevin Myers 03:15, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

That's a good idea, I'll do it when I can ... unfortunately, our library was under ten feet of water a few weeks ago and is still generally unusable. :( The world is conspiring against me completing this list! --Golbez (talk) 13:08, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

The state of Virginia has great consideration of history, in general. Look to official state sites, and historical associations, who have tabulated the governors. During the American Civil War there were two governors for some states, one elected by the Confederacy voters and one installed by Union military forces. They should probably both be listed as "governors." I'm not sure if Virginia suffered thus as did Kentucky and Tennessee. If the same person was governor in two or more separate non continuous terms, then the terms should be counted separately, like the U.S presidencies of Grover Cleveland. Edison (talk) 04:57, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

No site online, official or historical, bothered numbering their lists. We would be the first! And sending an email to the governor's office again resulted in a blank autoreply, so I have no faith they got it. --Golbez (talk) 13:08, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Early terror bombings: Bombing of Frampol and Wieluń in English works

I am trying to find English sources discussing the following events from early WWII period: Bombing of Wieluń, Bombing of Frampol. They were one of the first terror bombings performed by German Luftwaffe in WWII; however it seems that they are marginalized in non-Polish sources. Thanks, --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 21:11, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

For Wieluń: Bekker, Cajus. (1994). The Luftwaffe War Diaries. pp. 31-3. OCLC 30353222. Unfortunately page 31 missing from the google preview.—eric 23:39, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

I wonder if this is related to this.--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 17:47, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

July 18

First Greek speaking roman emperor

Which Roman emperor (east or west) spoke Greek as his 1st language & was more comfortable with it than Latin?--71.118.42.27 (talk) 00:32, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Diocletian perhaps? It was probably someone before the loss of the west. Adam Bishop (talk) 01:53, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Syria's reaction to Lebanon's political crisis

How did Syrian shi'a, sunni, druze and maronites reacted to their Lebanese counterparts' political crisis? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.14.118.191 (talk) 01:34, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Presumably with great trepidation about publicly expressing any views strongly opposed to those of the Assad dynasty regime, given a past history which includes events such as the Hama massacre... AnonMoos (talk) 11:41, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Bad Page Link

The page for 'William Howard Taft' (a former president of the US) comes up to some nonsense. The format is screwed up so that I can't reach the 'edit this page' to undo. Any help? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.212.5.67 (talk) 17:43, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

This page? Where is the problem?--droptone (talk) 17:48, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

I see it too, a black screen with some kind of vandalism, but it's only there when I'm not logged in. Strange. 194.171.56.13 (talk) 18:39, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Look at the corner at the top of the page. Do you see that lock symbol? Certain pages are semi-protected and reqire login. Often these are pages with a long history of vandalism (such as Obama). You can also locate a protected page when you aren't logged in if you can only "view source" rather than "edit page" —Preceding unsigned comment added by Omahapubliclibrary (talk • contribs) 19:33, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

As explained here, it seems to have been a vandalized template that was restored, but the vandalism was still cached for logged-out users (logged-in users don't get to see cached pages). 194.171.56.13 (talk) 09:16, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Rights of EU aliens in the Netherlands

As a British citizen, living and studying in the Netherlands (two years and counting), am I endowed the rights laid out in the Dutch constitution (most importantly, article 110 promising freedom of information pertaining to administrative matters)? --Seans Potato Business 20:07, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

I don’t know, but I think Postbus 51 will know. You’ll find a free phone number and a contact form. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Berteun (talk • contribs) 20:21, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, I sent them a message ----Seans Potato Business 22:26, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Rights of EU aliens in the UK

Can a non-British citizen of an EU member-state demand information for a UK governmental institution under the freedom of information act? If not, what if they asked a British citizen to request the information on their behalf. Would the government have any right to refuse to service the request if it was known that the information would simply be passed to the non-British national? ----Seans Potato Business 22:26, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

I'd imagine that the act would apply to all those legally resident in the UK. In any case, it would not be grounds for refusal if the information was going to be made known to a foreign national. If so, newspapers would not be able to publish what they'd found through the FOIA, since a foreigner might read it.--NeoNerd 14:24, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

The Freedom of Information Act 2000 establishes a "general right of access to information held by public authorities" and this right pertains to "any person" [18]. It goes on to list many exemptions to this right with regard to the type of information or the type of public body but I cannot see anywhere in the legislation that limits the access based on the status (nationality or otherwise) of the applicant - who is defined as "any person" who submits a request "which — (a) is in writing, (b) states the name of the applicant and an address for correspondence, and (c) describes the information requested". (Obviously this paraphrasing/quoting of the legislation available at the above link should not be treated as legal advice). Valiantis (talk) 19:09, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

July 19

Fantasy

Out of Harry Potter, The Chronicles of Narnia, the J. R. Tolkien series, and The Legend of Zelda, which is the order of popularity? 124.176.160.46 (talk) 01:34, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

How are you defining "popularity"? Total sales of all media types over all time with no intention of trying to correlate unique sales? My guess is that removes Narnia and Zelda right out and leaves you just with Potter and Tolkien. I'd probably guess Potter, because (hot) movie sales usually make book sales look like small time affairs, even over time for "classics". If we went with "sales by people who are still alive" I'd probably put Potter on top for sure, inferior product though it may be, but I don't have numbers to back it up. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 03:15, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

This compares searches on google for the terms:http://google.com/trends?q=tolkien%2C+narnia%2C+lord+of+the+rings%2C+zelda%2C+harry+potter%2C+hobbit

As you can see 'harry potter' beats everything, zelda is next; but narnia show an increase in popularity (probably due to the films?), tolkien is last..87.102.86.73 (talk) 14:46, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

It's worth noting that pre 2004 tolkien was very popular in searches, this no doubt is due to the films.87.102.86.73 (talk) 14:50, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

In terms of book sales see List of best-selling books giving the lord of the rings and the hobbit 150 and 100 million sales respectively. The harry potter series gets ~400million, narnia comes in at a respectable 120million.87.102.86.73 (talk) 14:56, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Pro Wrestling vs. Porn

Professional Wrestling totally grosses me out in the sense that it appears to be nothing less than gratuitous violence for the sake of entertainment. I can't help drawing an analogy to pornography which can be described in similar terms: gratuitous for the sake of entertainment. Why then is the public at large, not to mention the nanny authorities, so willing to accept and freely broadcast Pro Wrestling, not the least during family hour ? Not wishing to argue the merits and demerits of Porn, I would expect our "nannies" to be far more opposed to Pro Wrestling - it can surely be no more healthy for society !--196.207.47.60 (talk) 04:36, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

It's not even real gratuitous violence but fake gratuitous violence. The problem is one could dismiss almost all forms of entertainment as "gratuitous" in some way. For example: Motor Sport - gratuitous pollution of the planet in the hope of a big crash, or Pop Idol - gratuitous laughing at the ineptness of some of the candidates, and so on. Frankly, once people are rich enough to have free time, the vast majority will usually spend it doing something pointless rather than building schools or starting the revolution. Astronaut (talk) 08:02, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

It would help if you explained where you're editing from. For instance, European sensibilities allow for explicit nudity and sex in entertainment media, while violence is strictly regulated. In the USA, however, violence in media is much more acceptable, while showing a single nipple for a split second on broadcast TV created an absolute uproar of indignation. — The Hand That Feeds You:^Bite 14:03, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

I'd argue that even in the UK violence is regarded as much less offensive, and is subject to less prohibition, than sex/nudity. It's not quite at the level of the nipplegate events, which seem completely bizarre to an outsider. But if you turn on the TV in the UK before 9pm it is quite possible to see people fighting or killing each other whereas you would almost never see nudity. The situation is probably different in the rest of Europe though. 86.15.141.111 (talk) 14:33, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

To get in NUS

YOU NEED TO PASS TOEFL TO GET IN NUS? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.186.13.2 (talk) 08:03, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Which NUS? Astronaut (talk) 10:21, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Since the IP looks up to Singapore, my guess is on National University of Singapore. In answer to the question, have you looked at the NUS website. My guess from a quick look is it depends on what you're applying for, and what your previous qualifications are. For example, if your coming from Singapore applying for an undergraduate programme with the Cambridge A'level as your pre-u qualifications you may not. If your coming from Japan with no previous qualifications taken in English then probably. In any case, I suspect IELTS and perhaps other English language tests would be accepted in place of TOEFL. Nil Einne (talk) 19:44, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Gun ownership

• How many people in the US own guns and do not work for the United States government, local, state, or federal?
• How many of those people carry in public? Mac Davis (talk) 17:33, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm sure someone will be along with the statistics in a moment, but I'll note that I've lived in the states for 25 years and never seen a person carrying a gun in public, with the exceptions of cops, gun shows, and rifles in the rear windows of pickup trucks. --Sean 76.182.119.200 (talk) 19:05, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

That you know of... I have lived here my whole life of 30+ years and know several. Not trying to one up you, just pointing out that you probably just don't see them. Dismas|^(talk) 23:57, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

So what you probably want are information on concealed weapon statistics. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 19:22, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

In some states, concealed carry permits are very hard to get, but there is (or at least a few years ago was) no prohibition against carying a rifle, or wearing a pistol in an exposed holster like in the Wild West. Edison (talk) 20:13, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

drug crop areas

My (DK) atlas has miniature maps of land use for the countries, but none of them indicate land used for growing drug crops. This strikes me as somewhat inaccurate, because I would have thought major parts of Columbia and Afghanistan were given to cocaine and opium respectively. Do they leave this out for diplomatic reasons, or is it simply because it is unverifiable (as far as the actual areas of drug cropping are concerned)? Are there any atlases that mark drug cropping in land use patterns? thanks in advance, 203.221.127.240 (talk) 20:11, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

I can't imagine any atlas would have separate colors for every crop that could be grown. There would be way too many colors. If it's a world atlas with one page per country, it probably just has a single color for all cropland. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 01:56, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

And there are different kinds of drug crops. You need to look for a much more specialist atlas or map to find this sort of information.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 06:58, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

The maps (one per continent) indicate cropland by colour, and individual crops (or other land uses) by little icons. So a mini oil barrel for an oilfield, a cow for cattle farming etc. Columbia is mainly coca, Afghanistan opium, so I don't think there would be any problem with indicating this. The trouble is whether they don't because of a lack of specific information about the areas under cultivation, or so as not to offend the locals (my original question). Mapmaking can take diplomacy to the level of a sport at times. I'd still be curious if anyone out there has any info on this. Thanks again, 203.221.126.187 (talk) 13:35, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Typically atlases may include maps of major crops for different countries, but these crops would be legally produced. As cocaine and heroine are not legally produced or exported, nor are they part of any nation's GDP, it is not surprising that their locations would not be found on a map. Kristamaranatha (talk) 15:24, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

What were 5 challenges that Christopher Columbus faced?

What were 5 challenges that Christopher Columbus faced, including actual perils or even ones encountered by navigating several ships through strange waters? And how did he overcome them? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.240.197.56 (talk) 23:55, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Christopher Columbus:

• Did not have the internet available, so had to learn navigation via charts and instruments.
• Failed to anticipate that so many people would not use his actual name.
• Did not, for most of his voyage, have any idea of his longitude.
• Cooked the books -- at least the one his crew saw.
• Did his own homework.

OtherDave (talk) 02:03, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Don't forget the cannibals, pirates, and sea beasts! And the general problem of moral degeneracy! --98.217.8.46 (talk) 05:03, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Are you referring to "rum, sodomy and the lash"? -- JackofOz (talk) 11:11, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

"How do I convince everyone including myself that this is China when it is so obviously not?" Adam Bishop (talk) 13:06, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

"Where's the bling?" -LambaJan (talk) 15:07, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

July 20

Book of Mormon Women

How many women are there in the Book of Mormon? More specifically, how many are characters, how many are characters mentioned by name and who are they, how many are named but not characters, etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.169.20.8 (talk) 01:46, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Politicians secrets

Is it true that Hawaii Governor Linda Lingle was once arrested for marijuana? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rev. Nancy (talk • contribs) 09:00, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Name

Why doesn't Princeville have a Hawaiian name? 124.176.160.46 (talk) 09:50, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

From the article: Princeville is a planned resort community on the north shore of the island of Kauai, and is home to the Princeville Resort.

In other words, it was built by modern business owners as a vacation spot for tourists / home for the wealthy. — The Hand That Feeds You:^Bite 12:40, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Marmaduke Bonthrop Shelmerdine's ship

Does anyone know if the ship captained by Marmaduke, in Woolfe's Orlando, had a name that is referred to in the text? Thanks Adambrowne666 (talk) 10:45, 20 July 2008 (UTC)