Wikipedia:Reference desk/Miscellaneous

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April 23

searching for battalion listings in second world war

hi my name is chloe dealey and i am trying to find out which battalion my grandfather, james william wheeler was in in the second world war as my aunty would love to march for him as he has died. i've searched the web for hours and can't find any listings of the sort. if you could point me in the right direction it would be greatly appreciated.

thankyou —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 219.90.136.234 (talk) 00:20, 23 April 2007 (UTC).

Can you tell us which country he fought for (the UK, Canada, Australia, NZ, US, other) and where he was from? Just the county/province is fine. Also, did he die in the war or more recently? --Charlene 00:39, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

First car flame

Who painted the first flames on cars? If such a thing can be known.. --Quiddity 01:02, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Just a wild guess here, but could they have been inspired by some of the similar paint jobs on aircraft in WW2 ? StuRat 03:03, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

They were inspired by the fact that very-abbreviated exhaust systems on rich-running internal combustion engines actually do shoot out flames at times. A much-more-limited example of this is the back-fire. Atlant 15:52, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

I was thinking the art movements in the early 1900s might have led to the initial art cars, or at least an inspirational paintjob or two..? I was hoping for at least a chicken/egg of Pin striping vs other 'standards' such as flames. (As for actual flames/backfires, they've led to exhaust flame kits). So were there no Ford Model T's with proto-Kustom Kulture paintjobs? --Quiddity 18:22, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Just found out about this book, Up in Flames: The Art of Flame Painting (ISBN 0760323348). I'll see if it answers my query, if I can find a copy. Thanks anyway :) --Quiddity 19:58, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Mental images of unseen people

Has any research ever been done about the accuracy of someone's mental image of what an unseen other person looks like, compared with what they actually look like?

The question is prompted by the stunning revelation that Clio the Muse is actually blonde. Nothing against blondes, but I always pictured Clio as having naturally jet black hair. Despite her coming out of the blonde closet, my mental image of her as a blackhead just won't go away. (Nothing to do with pimples, btw, or that other great Greek muse, Acne).

I have my mental pictures of what some of the other Ref Desk usual suspects look like, and I guess I have to face the possibility that they too look completely different. JackofOz 01:26, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Well, Jack, you for one don't look like I would have expected!

That's not my best side, and it's out of date. I used to look like Santa Claus, but now I have only a goatee, so I look like a combination of the 10 handsomest men you've ever met. -- JackofOz 03:17, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

This question was superlatively answered by one Roger M. Vance in a Usenet post from 1995 which, alas, google groups seems not to have in its archive. It's too long to paste into this RD thread, but I have stashed a copy off of my home page for your reading pleasure. —Steve Summit (talk) 01:59, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Assuming Clio doesn't mind being talked about, while I usually don't think at all about what people look like in RL (unless I actually see a pic of them, like you, Jack), I confess that Clio has always brought to my mind a vague image of that other assertive blonde know-it-all, Nancy Drew. BTW 'know-it-all' was said as a compliment. Anchoress 02:08, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Biting lip hard here. Well, there are studies correlating mental imagery with the subject's emotional health and stress levels. See here, for example. I have no idea how your mind's image (or mine, for that matter) of Clio fit in the Roerich psychodynamic index, however. ---Sluzzelin talk 02:23, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

That's an interesting article. I took that test in high school, or one close to it anyways, and the analysis indicated that I have a very high opinion of myself and that I'm extremely interested in sex. Rubbish, obviously. ;-) I'm actually very curious to know if there are studies that indicate what the likelihood or frequency of actually forming mental images of unseen people says about a subject. I don't know if it's odd that I basically never actually try to imagine the looks or circumstances of Wikipedia members. I occasionally do on other boards, where people are more likely to share about their appearance and surroundings. My (very vague) mental image of Clio is undoubtedly due to her frequent references to her boyfriend Ned, her chums George and Bess, and being locked in flooding basements by unknown persons. Anchoress 02:32, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Regarding being locked in flooding basements by unknown persons, wouldn't that be Rex Morgan, M.D.'s wife June? She was knocked unconscious and trapped in a flooding basement for (IIRC) six weeks. Hey! She has black hair! --Charlene 03:02, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

No, but I once had an (R-rated) dream where I was married to Trapper John, M.D. Anchoress 03:20, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

I had pictured a blonde, specifically, Ann Coulter. StuRat 03:00, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Re the likelihood of formal mental images, I'm no expert but I hazard a guess that it might have to do with one's preferred representational system. I'm highly visual, and I almost always form images of strangers on the phone, and here. JackofOz 03:17, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

My images of Wikipedians are also vague at best. (Friday is orange and fuzzy for instance. Don't ask why.) Unlike reading books, which gives me quite vivid, but also surpisingly flexible, sometimes dream-like images. Since childhood I read The Lord of the Rings perhaps five times, and my Aragorn was quite stable, until Peter Jackson came along and made him look like Viggo Mortensen, an image of which I cannot rid myself anymore (not that I'm complaining). Voices definitely contribute a lot to any mental imaging. I watched an overdubbed Magnum, P.I. in the 1980s, and Thomas Magnum's voice was phenomenal and spoken by de:Norbert_Langer, a more persuasive combination than either the voice with Langer's physical appearance or Tom Selleck with his high and slightly whiny voice. ---Sluzzelin talk 05:19, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

@Jack: Hmmm, that's interesting in itself. See, I'm a fairly visual learner, and in fact when I'm talking to people on the phone, I often picture them, what they look like, their surroundings. But it's actually very topical, as I just this week realised that when I speak on the phone with my friend from Israel (with whom I have been corresponding for a year via IM), I frequently envision my own representation of what she and her surroundings are like, although I never do so when we are conversing on yahoo. I also, like Sluzzelin, form strong visual images of reading material. Edited to add: Actually, in analysing it further, I'd have to say that I almost never form visual representations of people I don't know, although I sometimes do so with characters in books. I realise that it's surroundings I am more likely to imagine, although I more frequently do so when I'm talking to someone on the phone than with people online. Anchoress 05:36, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

I can do quite well from a phone conversation, usually guessing the gender, approximate age, nationality, race, and weight. Hair color I can't tell, however. This came in handy once when one customer service person put me on hold, then an hour later somebody else picked up and asked "who are you holding for ?". I replied that she didn't give her name but she was an overweight, black woman in her 30s from the Southern US. From that description, they knew just who it was. StuRat 03:00, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

See also Wikipedia talk:Reference desk#The RD editors connection - spooky. JackofOz 03:17, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Ah, they seek her here, they seek her there, those Wikipedians, seek her everywhere! Being prime among my sex, my own self-image is as a younger version of a great first lady, though in some quarters I appear to be quite another Eve altogether. Maybye the truth is closer to this, or just maybe this. Perhaps you will never know for sure! Clio the Muse 05:56, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

i always had the image of Katie Derham, ITN newsreader (sorry don't know how to link) until de muse stated that she is blonde - thou we should keep in mind that people lie! (shock horror) and for all we know clio is in fact a 61/2 foot tall builder from Croyden, called dave - (V tongue in cheek! dear clio) a be it a very intelligent builder. To add to the debate of unseen people, what does everyone 'hear' peoples comments/answers as? for instance JackofOx, of course, sounds Australian, and Clio speaks with a BBC accent (sorry can't remember the proper term)Perry-mankster 11:28, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

The term I think you are looking for, Perry, is received pronunciation. Oh, ya, says Dave the Builder, who disguises himself as Clio the Muse 22:02, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Learning Opportunity! Making this not just chat! Clio, assuming she is upper class as she says (and who can say with internet people), is extremely unlikely to speak RP (BBC English), since that is an Upper-Middle Class accent. It is also the accent historically acquired by people who were 'going up in the world' and wanting to lose their old accent, but I assume that doesn't apply here. If Clio is Upper class or aristocratic, I would expect her to speak with an upper class accent, which is different to RP. For example, RP for 'Henry' is roughly 'Henree'. An aristocrat would say something more like 'Henreh'. Hence the joke about pepperOf course, accents change with time, and some person was claiming a while ago that the Queen's accent was gradually becoming more Estuary English. Skittle 21:49, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

My cynical way of thinking is that in this age, with digital cameras as common as they are, anyone who doesn't have a picture of themself readily available must be *use your imagination*. Vranak

Interesting. It has never occurred to me to visualize contributors. Though I will admit that whenever I have met someone I first met on-line, they usually turn out to be older and fatter than I had assumed. Do those people who visualize human contributors also find they visualize the bots?--Shantavira 12:42, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Jack of Ox, eh, Perry-mankster? Yes, I've always been a little bovine, thanks to my Taurus ascendant.  :) JackofOz 12:55, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

I, too, had never thought about Clio's appearance, nor about anyone else's, except Jack of Oz, since he posts a photo. Personally, I like that on the Reference Desk, or elsewhere on the web, people can be appreciated (or not) for their mental ability rather than their appearance. Marco polo 13:03, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

@JackofOz: The question is ambiguous because you have not defined what you mean by "unseen other person." If you are talking about "user account on a website such as Wikipedia" any such research would almost certainly lack credibility from the start.

Pictures can be doctored and substituted, multiple personnas assumed and discarded, records changed, stats forged; how would you even know if there is a 1:1 correspondence between user account and physical being, let alone whether she/he/other is actually telling the truth. dr.ef.tymac 13:14, 23 April 2007 (UTC) NOTE: This response is general, and is not intended to impugn the conduct or credibility of any Wikipedia contributor, promote personal speculation and gossip, or otherwise discuss similar matters that are obviously beyond the scope of the Reference Desk and a misuse of Wikipedia resources.

True, I haven't defined that term, because I thought it was readily apparent. As that's not the case, I'll explain. I'm talking about talking on the phone to someone you've never met and whose photo you've never seen. I'm talking about listening to someone talking on the radio whom you've never met and whose photo you've never seen. I'm talking about listening to a CD or your ipod, and hearing a singer whom you've never met and whose photo you've never seen. I'm talking about having an online dialogue or debate with a person or persons whom you've never met and whose photo/s you've never seen. There are probably other ways that don't occur to me right now. My question, which was serious, was about people's perceptions of the appearance of the other person/s without any visual evidence to go on. I don't understand why any research into this would lack credibility. Surely I'm not the first person to have ever wondered about this. (Or maybe I am that weird after all. :) JackofOz 13:36, 23 April 2007 (UTC) P.S. Also, receiving letters and emails from unmet people. JackofOz 22:22, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

A reasonable person might indeed have considered the terms of your question to be readily apparent. The nearly 2000 bytes of speculative commentary above (none of which contains a direct answer), however, indicates evidence to the contrary. Since you are a partial (and apparently willing) contributor to that commentary, a reasonable person might also conclude that these "readily apparent" terms were not the sole motivation for your inquiry.

If that is not the case, and you simply lost track of what you were asking in the momentum of the discussion, I am more than happy to have rescued you from your digression. As far as research lacking credibility, please review the narrowly-defined factual context to which I applied that statement if it is still unclear to you. Thank you. dr.ef.tymac 14:16, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Thank you, dr.ef.tymac. You present 2 alternatives, neither of which was the case. But I appreciate your effort. Absence of evidence (of research into this question) is not evidence of absence of it. Maybe, like me, my interlocutors are simply not aware of such research. JackofOz 22:22, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

As a longtime public radio listener, I've had occasion to fall mildly in love with a few announcers on the basis of their erudition and charming voices, and then after some years make the mistake of looking up what they look like, invariably to discover why they're in radio and not television; Terri Gross and Judy Swallow were two such. I've learned my lesson by now, so decline to know what Clio or any of my other refdesk favorites look like in the unkind corporeal world. --TotoBaggins 15:13, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

For your edification and delight, Toto, here I am [1] coming out of the bath! I bequeath this ideal to you. Clio the Muse 22:42, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

It is often a shock to see radio announcers or DJs you have heard for years, and to see how unlike they are to the mental image formed from their voice alone. One distinguished sounding announcer was a fat, greasy little bald-headed guy, and another was a midget. Edison 23:34, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

To give an example of how bad some people (well, er... me) are at metal pictures, when I was a teenager in a small town, I had a class every day with a male teacher I knew as Mr. Wright (That many years ago, no student would have thought that teachers had a first name). I would then go home, and listen to the local radio station for my favorite D.J. on the Gene Wright show. It took six months for me to realize that they were one and the same. Bunthorne 05:27, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Personally I don't form any mental images of Wikipedia editors. My brain seems adequately occupied with their textual identification... -- mattb 05:34, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Nice lengthy chat session, not many stepping up to answer to the original question though, oh well *shrug*. dr.ef.tymac 05:45, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Probably somewhere :) But continuing with the above discussion, I find it very diffeicult to imagine people, so I usually don't bother :( I tend to read a lot, and a few of the books I have read recently have pictures of the authors on the back, pictures of people whose work I have been reading sometimes for years, and usually they look nothing like I expected :( But it a way they look even more like they should look than the people I imagined had done :) And when it comes to characterss in books, I usually can't imagine them at all, possibly because they aren't real, but very rarely I read a book where I can see what is happening clearly in my imagination :) Actually this has only happened twice, and once because I had seen the film version before reading the book :] HS7 13:33, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

While this discussion, so far, suggests that it's unlikely there's ever been any serious research conducted on the question I asked, it has revealed some fascinating things about people's mental processes, which is a plus. If I may engage in a slight diversion, with dr.ef.tymac's permission. Reflecting on this over the past couple of days, I realise that whenever I play the piano, I virtually always automatically mentally project myself into a scene that connects me in a real way with the music. Sometimes this is unsurprising (eg. a waltz, mazurka, polonaise, etc readily lend themselves to mental imagery of people dancing to those rhythms), but I also do it equally with music with such unevocative titles as sonata, prelude, fantasy, study, impromptu, rhapsody etc. The images vary, as you'd expect. Quite often, without thinking about it at all, I imagine I'm the composer sitting at the keyboard writing the piece. (Which probably explains why I often sound as if I'm making it up as I go along!). But at other times, I imagine myself in eg. a 19th century central European outdoors scene. I do this particularly with Schubert.

But I'm not the only one to do this sort of thing, it seems. Let me quote an anecdote from the liner notes (author R. D. Darrell) to a recording I have of Rachmaninoff’s piano music: "It is likely that the composer had in mind some kind of “program” or “story” or scene for most if not all of these preludes [the 13 Preludes, Op.32] – as indeed he may have had for most of his works in all forms. But if so, he was more than usually careful to keep his own notions private so that listeners would be free to create their own imagery if they felt any were appropriate. In one instance, though, Rachmaninoff was amazed when another pianist, Benno Moiseiwitsch (whose performance of the B minor prelude, Op.32/10 he had highly admired), remarked that he, Moiseiwitsch, always thought of a certain painting whenever he played this piece – a painting, Arnold Böcklin’s "The Return", which the composer was startled into confessing was exactly what he had attempted to evoke in music".

So, while this is admittedly very wide of the mark in relation to imagining what unseen people might look like, it seems that mental images can sometimes be communicated in unexpected ways. JackofOz 04:45, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

List of people with synesthesia features composers Duke Ellington, Ligeti, Liszt, Messiaen, Rimsky-Korsakov, and a special mentioning of Scriabin. What Jack is describing does indeed seem to be common among musical people (listeners included). It's not the exact same thing and probably not as direct, neurologically, as synesthesia, of course, but turning musical color, texture, and drama into visual equivalents seems related, and can feel very real. For a seemingly more blunt, yet obviously effective example, harpist and composer Andreas Vollenweider sketched colored sequences of changing landscapes across the score sheets as a first draft for his composition Live at Sunset (performed with Sinfonia Varsovia, a Polish orchestra). ---Sluzzelin talk 09:47, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Although arguably divergent from the original question, fascinating and inspiring insights nonetheless. On that basis alone you have my unqualified admiration and support. Uhm .. oh yeah ... permission granted ;-P. dr.ef.tymac 15:37, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

How many different types of libraries are there in New Zealand?

Hello, I would like to know about the different types of libraries there are in New Zealand. Also it would be nice if there are links to different Wikipedia articles about the different types of libraries.

Thanks. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 125.238.81.121 (talk) 05:13, 23 April 2007 (UTC).

As far as I know there's only one type of library, which is ran by local city councils. Maybe you want to be more specific? --antilived^{T | C | G} 07:40, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Actually there is also the national library in Wellington. And universities and the like also have their own libraries (these tend to be open to the general public but you will need to pay to join if not a student or staff). Some museums, councils and CRIs and other organisations also have their own internal libraries which are not generally open to the general public. But the library that is probably of most interest to average NZer is probably their local library run by their local council Nil Einne 23:20, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

What do you mean by type, and what do you mean by library? Any collection of books is a library. As in most countries, there are public libraries run by the local government department, and private libraries run by individuals and organisations, many of them specialising in any of a wide variety of subjects, but there is no record of these.--Shantavira 08:38, 23 April 2007 (UTC)\

I can't address the New Zealand specific portion of the question, but our library article does indeed contain a section on types of libraries, with links to other Wikipedia articles. --LarryMac 15:14, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

I would guess one-libraries with books in

What about toy libraries? Aaadddaaammm 22:20, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Baseball team vs team overall record: chicago cubs vs arizona diamondbacks

lifetime / overall record between chicago cubs and arizona diamondbacks since 1998 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Pjbaker (talk • contribs) 05:28, 23 April 2007 (UTC).

I don't know if this helps at all, but since the year 2002 the Chicago Cubs hold a record of 12-19 vs. the Arizona Diamondbacks. ~ cl525

• A Cub,Mark Grace hit the first homerun into the pool.hotclaws**== 11:04, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

About dreams

I always pondered on a question that started as a joke I heard somewhere, but then I realized it had something to it...

If a person is born blind, can he visualize any imagery in his dreams? Does he "see" anything? Or are his dreams based on his other senses. Next, if a person goes blind while he is under 1 year of age (but is not born blind), can he conceive imagery in dreams? What about the other senses?

If anyone did any research on this, it might explain some of the mystery behind dreams in general. Does anybody here know of such a study?

Thanks, Danielsavoiu 08:34, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Oh yes, there are many studies. [2] [3]. They seem to indicate that people born blind do not experience visual imagery in dreams, and that the chance that they will experience it depends on when they became blind (with little chance if lost before 5). Vision in dreams also decreases as time passes from when the person became blind. Other senses kick in though; touch, smell, taste, sound, etc. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 08:56, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

help me with this odd facts trivia

1.doing this is believed to improve your health.what 2.what used to occurr at 180 occurs at 121 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 62.24.124.23 (talk) 13:44, 23 April 2007 (UTC).

1. Far far too many possible answers. -- mattb 14:38, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

I believe they are two different clues for the same answer. However, I have no clue as to what the answer is... JoshHolloway 22:47, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Pretty cryptic questions. Maybe the cutoff for abnormal reading of some medical test such as blood sugar after a meal, which got lowered in more modern diagnosis manuals? [4] versus [5] (Note that this does not constitute medical advice.) Or, maybe, the IQ considered necessary to answer questions on the RefDesk. Edison 23:30, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Well, one thing that occurs at 121 is that you win your game of cribbage. But I doubt there was ever a version where 180 was a win. --Anonymous, April 24, 2007, 01:45 (UTC).

I wonder if it's high blood pressure. Maybe the cut-off point for high systolic bp used to be 180, and now it's 121? --Charlene 09:51, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

• I vaguely remember that the second one is the angle of the erection which is less "at attention" with age.hotclaws**== 11:06, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

121 (number) and 180 (number) might help. Or not. jnestorius^(talk) 20:50, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Exploration of North America

A couple years ago i read about an area that i think was in Wyoming, that was not claimed by Spain, France, or Britain. It Was simply overlooked and annexed by the U.S. The residents celebrate something like a "Freedom day" or something once/year. What is the name of this area, and where is it? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.54.61.158 (talk) 18:38, 23 April 2007 (UTC).

• I'm not sure of a Wyoming city that celebrates a "freedom day". The history of Wyoming Territory is rather complex. Apparently, everything in Wyoming east of the continental divide was part of the Louisiana Purchase, although the exact western boundary was never specified in the treaty because France didn't want to provoke anything with Spain. The map Image:U.S. Territorial Acquisitions.png shows that other parts of Wyoming were part of the Republic of Texas (which broke away from Mexico) and was annexed in 1845), the Mexican Cession (from the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo in 1848), and the Oregon Country (claimed jointly by the United States and Great Britain, resolved in 1846 with the Oregon Treaty, and organized as Oregon Territory in 1848). Further organizations of territories and then states resulted in Wyoming having its current borders. --Elkman ^(Elkspeak) 21:20, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

The linked map neatly shows all of the present-day United States as part of a territory previously claimed by a European power, but there is in fact a small area that might have been considered outside of the European claims. This is Wyoming's Great Divide Basin. The Louisiana Purchase extended from the Mississippi River to the Continental Divide. New Spain or Mexico consisted of the areas draining to the Gulf of Mexico or to the Pacific west of the Continental Divide and south of the 42nd Parallel. These claims did not consider that there might be an area within the Continental Divide, but the Great Divide Basin occupies such a position. The linked map shows the basin as part of the original Louisiana Purchase. According to the Adams-Onís Treaty of 1819, an area south of the 42nd Parallel without regard to drainage, including part of the Great Divide Basin, was assigned to Spain. However, part of the basin lies north of the 42nd Parallel, and this might conceivably be considered outside of territory gained through the Louisiana Purchase or the Mexican Cession. However, U.S. territories surrounded the Great Divide Basin, and the United States construed it as part of the Louisiana Purchase (as shown in the map linked above). The only settlement of any size in the Basin is Wamsutter, Wyoming. I can find no evidence that it celebrates anything like a "freedom day". Marco polo 01:34, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Excellent answer, Marco. StuRat 03:23, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Base price of a british penny

Okay so the US cent is nearly costing more than a penny in raw materials to make. Anyone know how much the copper plated steel it takes to make a UK penny costs? Capuchin 19:33, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

From the Royal Mint's web site FAQ:

Q7. How much does it cost to make coins?

The cost of producing United Kingdom coins varies according to the specification of each denomination. The value of metal in each coin accounts for a large part of the total cost, but it is also necessary to take into consideration the broader costs of the manufacturing process. These vary according to the complexity of the coin.

The Royal Mint does not reveal exactly how much it costs to make specific coins as such information could be used to its competitors' advantage.

Dismas|^(talk) 00:44, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Huuh? What competitors? Clarityfiend 02:26, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

The Royal Mint is a business that manufactures coins for over 100 countries. There are lots of other mints, and no doubt some of them would also like that business.--Shantavira 07:48, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

From the Royal Mint Annual Report 2005-06: Internationally, sixtyone countries chose the Royal Mint as their supplier for coins and blanks which secured for the Mint roughly 15% of the global market. This aspect of the Mint’s activities remains important but over the course of the last five years there has been volatility throughout the world in capacity and pricing, sometimes operating to the Mint’s advantage but often acting against its commercial interests. The trend of government-supported national mints seeking to establish for themselves market share in the area of coins and ready-for-striking blanks is likely to remain an important factor affecting market dynamics for some years. ... One of the challenges for the future is to ensure that the Mint understands the singular position it occupies as an historic national institution and also a modern business looking to compete in traditional manufacturing sectors and commercial collector markets. Gandalf61 09:34, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Apropos of this, it was in the news a while ago that if the UK 2p coin was still made entirely of copper then it would be worth more for its metal content than its face value. Of course, that's why they switched to using steel back in '92. Algebraist 09:17, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

British two pence coin states that in May of last year the pre-'92 coins were worth 3p! Crazy! 213.48.15.234 09:37, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

It's not that crazy - they don't wear out very quickly - they can certainly be expected to last 50 years. I recall reading that a US $1 bill costs 14c to make - but it only lasts about 9 months - over 50 years, the cost of replacing $1 worth of bills is $7. By comparison, 3p for a 2p coin over 50 years is a good deal! SteveBaker 16:14, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Same thing happened with Canadian quarters a while back. The silver was worth more than face value. Clarityfiend 22:10, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Well, the BEP says that it's actually 21 months and $0.057 per $1 bill. :) kmccoy (talk) 06:11, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

whereas 1797 2p coins were solid copper and weigh 2oz.

Anyone trying to sell you a 1797 2p coin is a con artist. Maybe a 2d coin... £sd. Skittle 22:21, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

So... How much would it cost you to buy the amount of steel and copper that's in a one penny coin then? Anyone get an estimate? I reckon easily under 0.5p.

The "protein diet"

I overheard a conversation a while back about some protein diet that supposedly worked wonders... It was something about a 7day eating plan that involved alot of eggs, spinich an other gross stuff. Is there anyone who might be able to help me find this specific diet?

Thank you...

Nicky —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Nickyleo (talk • contribs) 20:33, 23 April 2007 (UTC).

Are you sure you're not thinking of the Atkins Nutritional Approach? It espouses a diet low in carbs and high in protein. Dismas|^(talk) 21:12, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Any diet of value will made up exclusively of foods that you find very very tasty. The thing is, part of that taste is how a food makes you feel afterward. Trans fats don't taste of anything, but will shut you down about 15 minutes after eating them. Being a smart eater requires noting how foods make you feel. Vranak

Vranak: What does "Trans fats don't taste of anything, but will shut you down about 15 minutes after eating them." mean? Bielle 02:56, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

It means you wouldn't want to eat them before a marathon. Vranak

I think he means some people's blood sugar goes down enough to make them feel tired or weak after consuming calories in a certain time period. Trans fatty acids may increase the risk of coronary heart disease, and there is another "food police alarm" going on right now. [Mαc Δαvιs] ❖ 03:00, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

• I remember a crank diet like this called the Hollywood diet.It consisited of 9 eggs every other day and mostly spinach and lemon on the alternate days.A friend of mine went on it and became extremely ill.hotclaws**== 11:09, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Federal Civilian Employee

What is the definition of a federal civilian employee?

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.136.145.206 (talk) 20:51, 23 April 2007 (UTC).

One that works for the federal government of whatever country but is not a member of the military, i.e. a civilian. In the U.S. such people would work for the Internal Revenue Service, the United States Congress, the United States Senate, even the President's secretary would be a federal civilian employee. Dismas|^(talk) 21:14, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Just for clarification, even military research civilian who work on military bases are federal civilian employees, but they aren't really a member of the military. --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 23:59, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Pictures

How do I make pictures larger —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Michael Redd (talk • contribs) 22:50, 23 April 2007 (UTC).

(http://homokaasu.org/rasterbator/faq.gas) could be what you need. There is software that exists that allows you to 'scale up' the size of your photo. An important factor to remember is that whilst quality may degrade, larger photos/pictures are most often viewed from a further distance, this should low the dpi required (or something like that). Not sure of the techncial details but something to do with viewing distance. ny156uk 23:49, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

And important thing to consider is whether it's necessary to interpolate an image. Depending on the printer software, you may or may not get better results with not using an external tool to interpolate. This is of course presuming your interpolating to print Nil Einne 00:24, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

magnifying glass

Photoshop allows excellent image enlargement and modification, including restoration of damage or removal of distracting elements in the photo. If it is a physical picture, you need to scan it into the computer first. I have also had good success making a copy negative of the picture with a view camera onto 4x5 inch film, then using a photographic enlarger to make a large print of it. Edison 15:22, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Mote that all the responses so far assume you have a digital pic, in which case the Computer Ref desk would be appropriate. For a regular photograph, take the negatives to a photo shop and they can enlarge them for you. StuRat 16:47, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Stu: Please re-read the previous post. The last method works well on non-digital and even non-photographic pictures. And your suggestion is a good one, since I have used the machine at a photo center to enlarge and duplicate photos before I had a pro-uality scanner and printer. Edison 21:55, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, I was scanning and saw "Photoshop" and took that to mean you were assuming a digipic. StuRat 19:14, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

THE STATE OF GEORGIA

WHERE WOULD I FIND INFORMATION ON A LIST OF GEORGIA'S FIRSTS? I'VE BEEN TO GOOGLE ASK AND DOG PILE. THEY DIRECT ME TO EBAY. I DON'T WANT TO BUY ANYTHING I'M LOOKING FOR INFORMATION. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.244.16.183 (talk) 23:22, 23 April 2007 (UTC).

• Georgia_(U.S._state)#History is probably a good place to start--VectorPotential^Talk 23:24, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Specifically what firsts are you talking about? bibliomaniac15 03:09, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

April 24

Some Sudanese phrases

Hi, I am making a poster and I would like to know how to say the following in Sudanese:

• "God help me!"
• "Please don't hurt me!"
• "Please! Please! Please!"
• "I don't want to die!"

If anyone knows those phrases, it would be much appreciated. Thank you very much. EDIT: I just realized that Sudan spoke Arabic and English. Does anyone know how to say these phrases in Arabic instead (with english letters)?64.230.92.226 01:34, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Actually, in Sudan, many languages are spoken. Arabic is an official language, but classical (standard) Arabic is in fact not spoken by Sudanese outside of formal occasions. Sudanese Arabic is spoken in northern Sudan, including the capital, Khartoum. However, if your poster is concerning Darfur, Sudanese Arabic is spoken only by some, including the Janjaweed militias, who have been accused of genocide. Their victims are most likely to speak Fur. Marco polo 01:47, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

And if you're likely to find anyone on the reference desk who speaks Fur they'll probably be at the language desk. --24.147.86.187 01:51, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

On second thought, Sudanese Arabic might be appropriate. Even ethnic Fur would probably know some words of it, and they would probably use Sudanese Arabic (to the extent they were able) to plead with ethnic Arabs attacking them. Marco polo 02:07, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Your poster sounds terrifying. --Dweller 13:03, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Please Help

Can someone name an African-American woman who is of large body size, but is also repsected by the public. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by TahomaBobby (talk • contribs) 03:55, 24 April 2007 (UTC).

Queen Latifah. zafiroblue05 | Talk 04:02, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Oprah --ChesterMarcol 04:04, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Toni Morrison, Aretha Franklin, Maya Angelou, Big Momma --TotoBaggins 04:51, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Barbara Jordan, Phylicia Rashād, Farai Chideya, Eddie Murphy, Aunt Jemima, [6]. dr.ef.tymac 05:19, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Does Phylicia Rashād have a large body size ? She was always thin on TV. StuRat 16:40, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

In case she's a WP contributor and protected under WP:NPA, I will defer to Stu's analysis. The road to hell is paved with conversations about women and body size. dr.ef.tymac 03:37, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Della Reese. Dismas|^(talk) 06:43, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Hattie McDaniel, if you don't confine yourself to live people. JackofOz 06:46, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Loretta Devine Nil Einne 10:22, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Star Jones, though she doesn't have much respect from this member of the public. Dismas|^(talk) 10:51, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

That lady who didn't win American Idol. - AMP'd 17:12, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

When I think of "large" and "black" I think Michael Clarke Duncan. That's a big guy. [Mαc Δαvιs] ❖ 02:43, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Not that it has anything to do with "African-American Woman" ... but whatever gets you through the night. dr.ef.tymac 03:28, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Expecting tornado outbreak.....................

Expecting a tornado outbreak in the E. Texas area, Oklahoma area, Louisiana area, Arkansas area. Tornadoes, LARGE hail, a massive lightning event is expected. Can this be placed in the appropriate articles ? All weather services, incl. the Weather Channel has stated this today. See the Servere Weather maps, so that pixes could be used in the articles. 205.240.146.156 05:16, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

What makes this any more special than something that happens relatively frequently? --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 05:33, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

The weather gets worse every year. 205.240.146.156 06:40, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Every year lots of slab-on-grade and mobile homes go up in those areas. Many more people get exposed to death. --Zeizmic 12:41, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Coverage of current events is more appropriate on Wikinews than here. StuRat 16:28, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

DDR error

Hi Wikipedia,

What is DDR SDRAM at DIMM (s):1 error means? My computer sometimes shows this message when i try to boot in. When this happens , i usually click the DEL tab to set up then everything will be fine but most of the time i cannot use my PC because of that error- DDR SDRAM at DIMM (s):1 Please help...

Thanks!—Keilah Reyes 06:44, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

You'd probably get a better response if you posted this on the Computing Reference Desk. Dismas|^(talk) 06:45, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

And you might get a better answer if you call up your computer manufacturer. That error just means that something is wrong with the DDR SDRAM at DIMM slot 1. You probably need to have the memory replaced. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 07:05, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Islamic laws

Dear Sir,

I know of a couple (a man and his niece but they are both adults) who are having sex and living together. The woman has 4 kids who are all minor under 15. She is having sex with their knowledge. He is sleeping in her bed and the kids know it. Is this legal in Islam specially in the Allawi religion?

Kindly let me know as i am worried about the psychological effect on the kids.

A Concerned —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.182.253.175 (talk) 07:41, 24 April 2007 (UTC).

Under Islamic law, they all can be executed for adultery and worse. Had to study it after 9-11 happened. 205.240.146.156 07:59, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Neither of them is stated by the questioner to be married. Does Islam classify two unmarried people having sex as "adultery"? --Dweller 13:02, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Let's remember that Wikipedia does not give legal opinions and that acting on the basis of an unsourced assertion of any kind is unsafe. Gandalf61 09:15, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

This doesn't sound like a legal question per se, but rather a question of religion, even though they use the term "Islamic law". An exception would be if they are in a country with Sharia law, like Iran, where the civil laws may actually correspond with Islamic law. In many other Muslim countries, like Turkey, the two do not correspond. In non-Muslim countries, of course, they don't correspond either. StuRat 16:25, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Hey - come on people - here we have a clear case of incest - with children looking on. What the hell if it is Shia or Sharia - it is still an incestuous sexual relationship in any language, culture or religion. He should have his balls cut off. And she should be stoned to death after Friday prayers. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.145.240.139 (talk) 22:57, 24 April 2007 (UTC).

According to the incest article, the above ("any language, culture or religion") is not true. (Search for "uncle" in the article.) Personally, I wouldn't know. --Anon, April 24, 2007, 23:36 (UTC).

Dear me, is anyone actually going to offer the querent some reliable sources, rather than weigh in with personal prejudices? According to Akrami et al 2006 "there seems to be no encouragement of consanguineous marriage in the Islamic context; it is merely mentioned as a traditional and common custom." While Bittles 1998, in Empirical Estimates of the Global Prevalence of Cosanguineous Marriage in Contemporary Societies, suggests "uncle-niece unions are ... forbidden by the Koran, even though double first cousin marriages, which have the same coefficient of inbreeding (F = 0.125), are recognized within Islam." Therefore it would appear that Sharia Law - that based on the Koran - would not favour uncle/niece marriage. It would not favor a sexual relationship outside of marriage either (see Zina (Arabic)). Rockpocket 00:04, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Islamic jurisprudence. And also, ask an imam.--Kirby♥time 13:27, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

website name

hello, i'm looking for a website where you enter the name of a book or movie or CD and gives you a list of recommendations that are similar to it. thanks —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 62.210.64.121 (talk) 09:49, 24 April 2007 (UTC).

• LibraryThing has such a feature for books. I am not familiar with such sites for films and CDs although I'm pretty sure they exist. - Mgm|^(talk) 09:53, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Amazon does that, kind of. Any page on there, whether for a book, CD or DVD, has links to other similar products. For music, I like Music Map. Type in an artist name and it gives you a bunch of similar artists, floating around on the screen. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 09:55, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

IMDb does that for movies. Anchoress 10:03, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Sites involved in the Music Genome Project do that for music. Though they don't simply list the music, they play it for you. Pandora.com is one. You enter a band you like and the program finds other music that is similar that you might like as well.

Also, Netflix does a similar recommendation sort of thing for movies. Dismas|^(talk) 10:07, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

hello again, i'm looking for a website where you can meet users with the same tastes in books and films and music. i've seen it before but i can't remember the name.

Last.fm provides a service like this. It monitors what you listen to (through a software download/add-on for players) and then matches you with people who have similar taste. This one is just for music however.gorffy 19:37, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Penis size by race

Can someone please find me a chart showing average penis size (length) by race and also by age? Thanks. --124.180.205.114 10:51, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Have you read our article on Human penis size or seen the links in that article? Dismas|^(talk) 13:34, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes I have but I couldn't find what I was looking for. --124.180.205.114 01:57, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

The problem with this request is that different studies produce different information. Our article states "there has been no conclusive evidence that race and penis size are at all correlated" therefore one might expect that there is no reputable data that shows any statistically significant difference in averages between races. You will be able to find data (using which you can plot your own chart) on length vs age in: Schonfeld, W. A. (1943). Primary and secondary sexual characteristics: Study of their development in males from birth through maturity, with biometric study of penis and testes. American Journal of Diseases of Children, 65, 535. Rockpocket 02:08, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

A simple chart based purely on sterotype is this: African > European > Asian other wise see above.-Czmtzc 13:56, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

^Well everyone knows that! ;) I was just looking for scientific studies to back it up! --124.181.20.152 10:16, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Username

hello everyone, i've been editing wikipedia for a while now and decided its time to make a account. Can anyone sugest a good username for me? 195.194.74.154 10:52, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

'releasethehounds!'(mr burns, the simpsons)

'davethemuse'(see 'unseen people')

'i'mnewheremyself'

'iblametheparents'(nicked from iain m banks, culture books) Perry-mankster 11:07, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Or just your name, or any random word you've created off the top of your head, or even '195.194.xxx.xxx' --antilived^{T | C | G} 11:18, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Speaking from experience, 195.194.xxx.xxx will definitely get you {{usernameblock}}ed, I should know, I used to be 71-247-243-173 (talk · contribs) --VectorPotential^Talk 15:49, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

You could always create a username that reflects your actual name; some of use have done that, and it'll help prepare you for Citizendium where there isn't any anonymous editing. One downside is you would need to be better-behaved in your editing than are many editors here on Wikipedia. You know, accurate, polite, accommodating of others' opinions, etc.

Please do remember that you need to choose a username that can't be construed as offensive, combative, etc. And I'd strongly urge you to avoid '195.194.xxx.xxx'; even if the Wikimedia software will allow that, I'm sure that would cause no end of trouble down the road.

Atlant 11:53, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

I like them. I think I'll go for any random word though. Thanks 195.194.74.154 12:06, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Hey, and I wasn't joking when I said any random word! Any random word 12:07, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

I should have thought to cite this earlier, but for anyone else reading this thread, a good reference on all of this is WP:U, the official usernames policy.

Atlant 14:14, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

I'll bet that any username can be construed as offensive, or confusable with a real-world person or organization, or too similar to an existing username, or too much a random collection of letters, which is somehow construed as likely to do vandalism. Names have been rejected for amazing reasons. It seems like a mistake to choose a name much like your real one, given the habit of anti-Wikipedia sites to 'out' editors they don't like. Similarly, articles are labelled as having conflict of interest (formerly called vanity) issues if the creator's username sounds like the name of the article subject. There has even been criticism when an editor using the name "Edison" wished to edit an article about Nikola Tesla. Edison 15:16, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Well, as you'll recall, Tom Lehrer did claim (in his famous song Smut) that, "when correctly viewed, everything is lewd", but we usually apply a slightly-stricter standard here when assessing the offensiveness of usernames.

Atlant 15:37, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

If you want to get a good idea of what names are or aren't allowed, you might want to go through the history of WP:RFCN, some interpretations of WP:U are pretty close to random so there's no sure way to avoid a usernameblock, just choose carefully--VectorPotential^Talk 15:54, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Bizzare thin person question

i dont know about you, but do you tend to find that thin people have huge bulging eyes?? so does anyone know why they have huge eyes? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.36.54.161 (talk) 11:20, 24 April 2007 (UTC).

If you shink the world to the size of an ant the ant would have looked big is well. It's all about proportions. --antilived^{T | C | G} 11:30, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

could be that you are encountering a lot of people with the symptons of Graves Disease some of these include; Exophthalmos - bulging of the eye(s) and Hyperthyroidism - overactive metabolism. Perry-mankster 13:24, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

The less fat cells covering your zygomatic and frontal bone, the more hollowed the appearance, and the less light falls into the concave surrounding of your eyes. The resulting contrast might make the reflective eyes look brighter, similarly, perhaps, to one of the eyeliner's effects. (unreferenced) ---Sluzzelin talk 13:38, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps we should look at why the eyes on a skinny person don't shrink in proportion to the rest of them. The distance from the lens to the retina needs to be kept constant or vision would decline rapidly. Thus, animals whose eyes shrank when they went hungry would likely suffer a serious vision loss and die as a result of not being able to hunt, forage, or escape predators. This would leave only those animals which retained their full eye size and shape during periods of starvation to pass on their genes. People, having evolved from these animals, retain this characteristic. StuRat 16:15, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

How do I cite footnoted text?

In the article I'm working on, 2 Peter, I'd like to relocate some explanatory text to footnotes, which I believe will make the article less biased. The problem is, some of the comments I wish to move have citations of their own. What is the protocol for footnoting footnoted material?

You cite the source as normal but then note the notes as n5 or n6 instead of (or along with) a page number. Unless I've misunderstood your question. Generally speaking you don't have multiple levels of footnotes, if that is what you are asking. If you need to cite something in a footnote, you just put it at the end of a footnote. e.g. "This is an interpretation of X, following Y. Book That I Got This From, p. 5". --24.147.86.187 21:39, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

I think the question is about footnotes within Wikipedia, the problem being that <ref> ... </ref> constructs don't nest. A reasonably practical solution might be to convert the "inner" footnote into a separate footnote to the original statement, but someone on the Help Desk might have a better idea. --Anonymous, April 24, 2007, 23:43 (UTC).

Putting out fires

If there was a fire in a room could it be put out by freezing temperatures or air?

probably not air, as it contains oxygen, which a fire needs. A fire will apparently go out if you remove either Heat, Fuel or Oxygen.

I would say yes, if you had enough air at a low enough temperature (near absolute zero, for example), and could dump it all on the fire quickly enough, it would absorb enough heat from the fire to bring it below the combustion temperature. This said, there are many disadvantages to this method. This would also likely kill anyone hit by the super cold air, and the volume of the air would be huge, as would the energy needed to lower the temp of such a large volume. For these reasons, pouring water on a fire is usually a much less expensive and safer say to extinguish it, unless you are dealing with some special cases, like an oil fire or electrical fire, where water can actually make things worse. Then methods like foam or halon gas are used, which primarily extinguish fires by depriving them of oxygen. Remember, a fire needs three things to propagate: fuel, oxygen, and a temperature above the combustion temp for that fuel and oxygen level. StuRat 16:06, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

If you had air "near absolute zero" it would be frozen solid, but would tend to melt and then evaporate in the heat of the fire, releasing more oxygen. However, in doing so, it would absorb heat from the flame. The results would depend on the size of the flame, the amount of frozen or cold air introduced, and the type of fuel.

As a practical method of extinguishing a room fire, though, it's pretty obvious that this would not be effective for the reasons given above.

--Anon, April 24, 2007, 23:50 (UTC).

So when I blow out a candle, does that work because there's not enough oxygen in my breath? --Dweller 10:41, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

I assume that works because you're blowing the oxygen out of the way before it can heat up enough to form part of the flame - you are continuously pushing cold air into the flame, which doesnt have time to heat up and become part of the plasma, and so the flame eventually dies due to the cooling.

I think there is plenty enough oxygen in your breath to keep a flame burning 213.48.15.234 11:19, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

So then the original questioner was right, that pushing a sufficient quantity of air over a fire will put it out, even if there's oxygen in it? --Dweller 11:21, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm not so sure about that... see the article on firestorms for what can happen with wind and fire. I would guess that once a fire is beyond a certain size, the additional fuel provided by the oxygen would compensate for the cooling effect. As Peter Gabriel says, "You can blow out a candle, but you can't blow out a fire." (Not sure that he's a Reliable Source, but it's a good line.) - Eron ^Talk 11:48, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

I would say that wind of sufficient velocity would always blow out a fire. However, for a forest fire you might need a sustained thousand mile per hour wind, which obviously isn't going to happen. StuRat 19:06, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

I think this is right. The most spectacular situation of blowing out a fire is an oil-well fire, where a continuous stream of liquid fuel is flowing out of a narrow borehole and burning as it meets the air. But because the combustion happens in a small space, it is possible to blow it out with a sudden blast of air -- I imagine the mechanism involves not only cooling the burning fuel but also separating the incoming fuel from it. This has been done in at least two ways: (1) a small explosive charge, and (2) jet engines, as seen in the documentary Fires of Kuwait (1992). --Anonymous, April 25, 2007, 22:25 (UTC).

miscellany

a list of seemingly unconected questions that I couldn't be bothered to ask separately. —172.203.94.150 (talk) 14:56, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

dismemberment

1 If I wanted to tear someones arm off, which parts would break, and how much force would this require?

This depends on the person, of course. You would probably be unable to tear off a weight lifter's arm, while a baby's arm is relatively easy to snap off. The toughest part is the tendons, which make even a simple thing like pulling the drumstick apart from the thigh of a chicken very difficult without twisting it. This would probably be easier on a baby or young child, since you could get your boot in for leverage. --TotoBaggins 16:13, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

1a would the tendon be torn away from the bone, or just snap?

In chickens, it's torn away from the bone. You should go buy a ham or a turkey and tear it apart with your bare hands to get an idea of just how tough flesh and bone really is. --TotoBaggins 22:32, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

muscle strength

2 Is a longer muscle stronger than a shorter muscle of the same thickness? What ebout of the same volume?

I don't believe it will be "stronger" as such, but the longer muscle will have more leverage. FiggyBee 20:49, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

tough rocks

3 What is the toughest rock, (other than things like diamonds) actual stones such as sandstone or granite?

You'll have to be more specific. Diamonds are not particularly tough (whack one with a hammer to see that), though they are very hard. "Tough" isn't really a geological term. --TotoBaggins 16:18, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Yeah. I remember hearing that when the tunnels for the MAX Light Rail line under the Sunset Hills in Portland were being dug, surveys revealed that the tunnel would be through mostly granite, with a relatively thin layer of basalt at the beginning. So the tunnel boring machine was optimized for drilling through granite. Unfortunately, the survey was inaccurate, and instead of having to drill just a few feet through basalt, they had to drill through hundreds. Now, granite is quite a bit harder than basalt, but basalt is in a way tougher -- it doesn't fracture as cleanly, and it ended up gumming up the TBM badly, significantly increasing the time and cost of the project. —Steve Summit (talk) 03:40, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

3a If I were to build, say, a castle out of each type of rock, and then shot it with cannons, tanks, battering rams, which would take the longest to collapse?

I'd take a guess at Pumice. FiggyBee 20:49, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

How about Tuff? Edison 16:40, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

handheld computers

4 where could I but a very small computer, small enough to hold in one hand, preferably one that one has a singly writing program on, such as Microsoft Word or Notepad, and nothing else, and how much is it likely to cost?

See Gumstix and Ultra-Mobile PC for a couple of answers. dr.ef.tymac 16:29, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

writing about real people

5 Would I be legally alowed to write a book about true stories other people had told me without asking everyone's permission first? If not, would I be able to if I avoided using any names, or anything else that could show who the stories were about?

Sure, it happens all the time. See unauthorized biography, memoir, and roman a clef. --TotoBaggins 16:18, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

But if it is deducable who the stories are about, make sure you can prove any potentially defamatory statements. FiggyBee 20:49, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

See Slander and libel [Mαc Δαvιs] ❖ 02:41, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm reminded of one of A. P. Herbert's Misleading Cases, in which Albert Haddock published a series of crossword puzzles in which some of the solutions were names of persons who claimed defamation by the clues. Given that the solutions (containing the names) were not published, was it libel? —Tamfang 21:27, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

cleaning glass

6 How can I clean glass so that it doesn't becaome attracted to dust and get even dirtyer than before? A way that I can use whilst out. and without any expencive equipment would be useful.

Wadded up newspaper and white vinegar. dr.ef.tymac 16:26, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

sick people looking green

7 Why is it that people who are ill apparently look green, even though they don't actually change colour? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 172.203.94.150 (talk) 14:56, 24 April 2007 (UTC).

Probably as a result of pallor. Rockpocket 22:29, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Popular question lately! Asked just five days ago, check other answer(s) there. —Steve Summit (talk) 01:53, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Kayaking

I joined a kayak club about a year ago. recently I persuaded a friend to come along with me, however he hated it as he couldn't balance in his boat. He is a fairly well built guy (not fat, just muscular), I then noticed that everyone else in the club is very tinn, some are tall, but they are still tinn. I was wondering is there a reason for this or is it just coincidence, do well built people fond it harder to kayak? Ken 11:53, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

I would expect someone with a lot of upper body muscles would be top-heavy, causing the kayak to become unsteady. Leg muscles would have less of an effect, since they are near the waterline, not well below it, unlike the upper body muscles, which are well above the waterline. Perhaps a kayak with dual outriggers would work for him, although they would seem like training wheels, I suppose. StuRat 18:09, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm no kayak expert, but I can imagine just weighing more would be a disadvantage. You'd have to paddle harder and that might cause some instability as well. Recury 17:22, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Music

What is the name of the music box that makes the circus music? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 172.203.94.150 (talk • contribs) 14:57, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Hmm... calliope? - Eron ^Talk 18:58, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

sweet man ... I have been looking for hours but I geuss my serches weren't the right questions.

Horses

I've read an article on Isabella Bird Foundation saving wild mustangs from slaughter. They are placed on property owned or leased by the Bird Foundation,are trained, and are put in service to allow terminally ill children to visit the camp and participate in leisure activities. Perhaps, a form of therapy?I would like to know more on this subject. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.235.165.12 (talk) 19:31, 24 April 2007 (UTC).

I don't know about that specific organization, but I do know that horses are used in a variety of therapeutic programs. The article on Therapeutic horseback riding should be able to give you more information. - Eron ^Talk 20:13, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Hawaiian kitchens

What are the Hawaii State requirements for a certified kitchen?

I'm sure food will have to be involved somewhere, but apart from that...

My guess is that you are referring to the requirements set set by the Hawaiian Department of Health for certified commercial kitchen operation. A quick Google search turned up this, the "Hawaii Administrative Rules Title 11 Department of Health Chapter 12 Food Establishment Sanitation" on the state website. —WAvegetarian (talk) 00:07, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

I've been told by relatives that all of us rats are required to wear tiny grass skirts and coconut bras. :-) StuRat 18:42, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Ah! Nasty image in my head!!! Get it out! --Zeizmic 21:04, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Barnstars

how do you award barnstars? Sethy-boy 22:12, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

You just copy the appropriate text found a WP:BARNSTAR to the awardee's talkpage. For example, for the Original Barnstar, you would type:

• {{subst:The Original Barnstar|message ~~~~}}

Rockpocket 22:26, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Are you gonna give one to Rockpocket for a fast and good reply? =) →EdGl 02:10, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Gee, I've never seen one. Edison 16:32, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

MyNetworkTV's schedules

How long is this schedule for reality shows? and when are we going to see those English-language telenovelas again on the schedule on MyNetworkTV?

TV ratings

Sorry to be bothering you guys again, but I got something to ask you about TV ratings.

What does it take for a television series like Desire (TV series) to get excellent ratings like Ugly Betty, Lost (TV series), or Grey's Anatomy?

Well, it has to obtain as many viewers as they do. Ratings are a measure of how many people are watching, after all. (An imperfect measure, but still...) - Eron ^Talk 23:21, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

A hell of a lot more viewers. Desire had around 1.16 million viewers [7] Lost has somewhere around 15 million (in the US). Rockpocket 23:26, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

There are many factors, some obvious, some less so:

1) It has to be an entertaining show. Notice that this isn't the same as a "critically acclaimed" show. People must like it, not critics.

2) It has to be in a good time slot. Very few people will start watching a show on at 4 AM. A few, but not many, might follow a show (to which they are already addicted) wherever it gets moved, using recording devices, as necessary.

3) It needs to be advertised. If nobody knows about the new show, nobody will tune it to give it a chance in the first place.

4) It needs to "stand out from the pack". A perfectly good CSI-type show probably won't do well if it's no better than the many existing CSI-type shows and is run against them. If you run your CSI-type show when others are playing the news, however, you may have a chance.

5) Big name stars help, mainly to get people to give it a chance, but they still won't stay if the show is bad.

6) Patience helps. Many shows that go on to be huge hits start out with a small audience, like Star Trek, which has now has had 5 TV series, a cartoon version, and ten films. StuRat 18:08, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

April 25

My Games Fever

Hello again, I'm sorry to bother you again, but I just have to know something.

Is My Games Fever cancelled because it fell victim to the "low ratings curse"? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 12.18.90.122 (talk) 01:12, 25 April 2007 (UTC).

These questions are probably more suited to Wikipedia:Reference desk/Entertainment. Pretty much all shows on US commercial television that are cancelled early are done so because of low ratings, which means less profit. Rockpocket 01:50, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

You don't have to apologize for asking us questions. :)

Localised Websites

Why do websites such as Google, Yahoo! and MSN have localised versions for many countries, except USA? For example, someone can search on Google for worldwide pages OR just UK pages at google.co.uk, but if someone wanted to look for just US pages, there is no google.us for them to do so? Same for MSN and Yahoo!. Isn't this ever an issue for Americans? --203.208.88.170 03:08, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Because the world revolves around the US, that they're the centre of the world, and every page is localised to US by default. --antilived^{T | C | G} 03:18, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Those sites are (at least de facto) USA-English-centric portals to begin with. The localized portal you suggest might be more useful on a site such as this. dr.ef.tymac 03:22, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

There is a way to restrict your Google search to pages located in the USA; use the search form at google.com/language_tools. --Mathew5000 17:52, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Some countries require a localized version, such as China, so they can censor any mention of the Tianemen Square massacre, for example. StuRat 17:56, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Here's an example of how to use the parameter cr= to restrict a search to pages in a particular country such as the US. Compare the following URLs searching for a certain eight-word phrase:

• google.com/search?q="university+where+he+received+his+doctorate+in+economics"&num=100&safe=off&filter=0
• google.com/search?q="university+where+he+received+his+doctorate+in+economics"&num=100&safe=off&filter=0&cr=countryUS

The first search returns 24 results, but the second search (with the added parameter "cr=countryUS") returns only 6 results; the non-USA results have been excluded. --Mathew5000 05:22, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Yahoo does have a different version where I am (in australia) its at yahoo.com.au Thepalm 09:00, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Question (lesbians and AIDS)

I don't know where else to ask this, but here: Can lesbians get AIDS? I've been wondering that for a while.--$UIT 03:53, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Sure, why not? For example, a lesbian could have a bi-sexual lover, or a lesbian nursehealth care provider could get infected non-sexually. Clarityfiend 04:46, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Or one lesbian could contract it from another lesbian. I don't see why a prick of one sort or another has to be involved. Dismas|^(talk) 04:49, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Fact is, physically a lesbian is the same as a heterosexual woman (aside from some brain structure differences). Clarityfiend 04:57, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

If the questioner really means "is HIV transmissible via cunnilingus?", the answer is yes, but the risk is quite low. The risk increases if the person giving the oral sex has any lesions in the mouth or throat and if the recipient has any lesions in the vaginal neighborhood or is menstruating. Epidemiologically, monogamous lesbians have some of the lowest rates of HIV among sexually active people. More here. --TotoBaggins 06:51, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

How about via scissoring? Hmmm... Azi Like a Fox 12:23, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes, Lesbians can transmit AIDS via Genital to Genital contact. Anyone can. I can't find a spot on online citation on this, thugh I'm sure a search will turn up lots of information. You could also contact your local AIDS association for information, or even a non-local one. The people at Aids Vancouver Island are helpful folks: http://www.avi.org/ gorffy 23:40, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Anyone can contract AIDS including virgins and children. Any transmission of blood with someone HIV+ can contract the virus. Lesbians are only less likely to contract HIV+ than gays and heterosexuals because (on average) they have fewer sexual partners than either group. --Ephilei 01:32, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't think it is fair to say that the reduced risk for lesbians is because they have fewer sexual partners. There are several possible routes for HIV transmission. In the case of sexual transmission, lesbians are not at reduced risk because of a reduced number of sexual partners, but rather because the forms of sexual activity they are most likely to engage in are those that carry an extremely low risk of transmission. Bluntly put, if no penis is involved, the risk of HV transmission is drastically reduced. (Before jumping on me, please note that I said reduced, not eliminated.) - Eron ^Talk 01:42, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

tunes used in ACT II of stage play "Picnic"original 1953 Music Box Theater NYC

04:23, 25 April 2007 (UTC)WorcennojI have searched and searched. All I have come up with is "there is no documentation" of the music in "Picnic". NOT the movie of 1956, but the award winning stage play Feb. 19, 1953, by William Inge and directed by Joshua Logan. What were the piano tunes that Ernie Higgins played in ACT II?Worcennoj 04:23, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

How do you decode this Dewey Decimal Classification code?

How do you decode the Dewey Decimal Classification code below?

64'.7—dc22

What subdivision does the publication belongs to? Is it 064? Or is it 640? Something else? What exactly does

64'

mean? And what does "—dc22" mean? --72.78.237.89 05:20, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

That doesn't look like a Dewey or LCC number. What's the book? Where's it from? FiggyBee 07:39, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

The book is a DIY home improvement manual. The Dewey classification is from the Library of Congress Cataloging in Publication Data on the copyright page of the book, which I assume is accurate. --72.78.237.89 12:20, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

In the Dewey Decimal Classification, 640 is the general class for 'Home & family management' (reference), which seems like a good place for a DIY book. I thought perhaps the ' in your number was a misprinted 1, however 641 is 'food and drink'. The summary document linked above doesn't get into the decimal portion of classifications, and the only thing I found when Google searching for 641.7 is 'Specific cooking proceses and techniques', so that doesn't work out. As far as the "dc22," it most likely represents version 22 of the Dewey Decimal Classification system (reference). --LarryMac 14:41, 25 April 2007 (UTC).

Thanks for replying. I think I've found the answer. Like you said, "dc22" stands for the 22nd edition of the Dewey Decimal Classification. From checking the catalog of the Library of Congress, I found that a digit is missing from the Dewey classification number. The correct number, according to the LoC catalog, is: 643'.7

As for the ' ("prime mark"), it is used to mark the place(s) where the classification number may be truncated, if one wants to use a shorter/truncated version of the classification number.[8] --72.78.237.89 14:57, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Plz help to kill my nokia!

My Nokia 3310 was stolen three weeks ago. I don't want that thief to use my cell. So I want to destroy it's software using it's IMEI(International Mobile Equipment Identity) number. When I want to use it here I came to know that it can't be done in India. Can any one from any country help me to do it. I'm giving you my IMEI no: 350606605344266. Plz do what ever you can do with that number. But it should be destroyed. Plz post me the result after you have done that. It was a very sentimental one to me and should not be used by others. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Temuzion (talk • contribs) 07:38, 25 April 2007 (UTC).

That's impossible. Just cancel your account with your provider. atomicthumbs 16:27, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

My god, this could be the lead-in to a great phishing attack! --Zeizmic 16:45, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Just call your provider and have them deactivate your sim card, that way the phone won't be able to dial out, or receive calls, or download ringtones, etc..--VectorPotential^Talk 17:25, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

While you cannot "destroy" your phone's software, the article on IMEI seems to suggest that there are steps you may take, such as contacting CEIR, to get the device blacklisted, in theory preventing the use of the phone even if its SIM card is replaced. Azi Like a Fox 04:39, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Even if a reader had special software which could reach out and disable a phone with a certain ID number, we have no real way of knowing that the person requesting such an action is the rightful owner (as opposed to someone with a grudge against the owner and knowledge of the ID number). Edison 16:37, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Purgatory

Do Catholics believe that all people who will go to heaven after they die will go temporarily to purgatory before they go to heaven, or just some?The Anonymous One 09:23, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Wow, an interesting(to me) question about Catholic theology phrased in a nuetral way! ;) Well, after some research, and going by the words of Julian, Cardinal Cesarini speaking at the Council of Florence, souls' of Saints get to go straight to heaven, so no, not all saved people have to stop-over in purgatory prior to going to heaven in Catholic theology [9]. I also saw mention of Martyrs getting a free pass, but from what I can tell the vast majority of the saved do have to go there. Also, just in case, here's a Catholic apologist page(one of many I'm sure) which addresses some common criticisms of the Catholic doctrine of purgatory, in case you were wondering[10]. As an aside, personally I've always been perplexed from a strictly logical standpoint at the various ways, indulgences, etc., that were in times past offered to shorten a souls' time in purgatory. What's the big deal about having your soul spend a finite amount of time, no matter how long, being purified in purgatory if you're guaranteed eventually to spend an !!eternity!! of bliss with God in heaven? Even if purgatory is extremely unpleasant/painful the obsession with commuting the time spent there just doesn't make much sense to me...---AZI--- 38.112.225.84 11:11, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

I think technically (according to Catholicism), the people in Purgatory are saints, because they are saved. They aren't the canonized saints whose lives the church puts up as an example to believers, but they're saints nonetheless. Not that I'm an authority on Catholicism; "just telling you what I've heard". --Trovatore 19:16, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

• There's different forms of Catholicism and within each form, not every believer thinks the same. - Mgm|^(talk) 12:26, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

After you die, your soul goes to a Steambath; be nice to the little Puerto Rican guy.

Atlant 12:33, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

SeeJohann Tetzel, who said something like, "How can you cling to that gold piece, knowing that your dead mother is suffering in purgatory and with the money you could shorten her suffering? and the catchier ""As soon a coin in coffer rings, the soul from purgatory springs." See also[11]. Edison 16:31, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Why won't my teachers let me cite Wikipedia? This is asinine.

Ignoring the likelyhood of an article on things such as muon-catalyzed fusion being vandalized, the teachers at my school (Sir Francis Drake High School) say that we cannot cite or use Wikipedia for research, due to the fact that anyone can edit it, and that because of that all information on Wikipedia is suspect. I know that's not the case, and so I'm stuck using Opentopia Encyclopedia, which uses a Wikipedia database dump. It's kind of hard to use, but it has no edit link and I'm telling my teachers that it uses one of the "Certified Good" database dumps (I know, there isn't any such thing). Can anybody right a persuasive thing that'd convince my teachers to let us use Wikipedia? atomicthumbs 16:27, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

I do understand why your teachers doesn't allow wikipedia to be cited, but they can't bar you from using it to find things out. If you look something up for an assignment here, look at the sources for the facts you want and cite those. Your teachers would have to allow that (and if the statement isn't sourced, don't use it).

Also, please educate your teachers on what a database dump is (if you can, that is). There's a reason it's called a "dump", not a "selection". --Oskar 16:36, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Go over their head. Talk to the principal. Or you parents. Or the school superintendent. Or your local member of parliament/senator.

Seriously though, what I would do is ignore your teacher and cite Wikipedia to your hearts content. Dare them to fail you on account of an asinine rule. When you expose yourself to a very bad outcome, the teacher will be forced to re-think their silly position. Vranak

This is a totally irresponsible suggestion. Advising that the student should go out of his way to make his teacher's life harder when the teacher has a perfectly valid and reasonable rule as regards a writing assignment is terrible. No school administrator in their right mind would side with a student who is being disruptive just because they don't wish to follow the rules of the assignment as stated. -- mattb 18:51, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

On the contrary, searching high and low for citation sources would be 'going out of the way'. Why should anyone have to do that when Wikipedia is, in all honesty, as good if not better than any other source, on the majority of topics? Vranak

Most educators and professionals do not consider it appropriate to use any tertiary sources such as encyclopedias as a sole source for any information. Wikipedia articles should be used for background information, as a reference for correct terminology and search terms, and as a starting point for further research. Always check your facts against multiple independent sources. Jon513 17:29, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

To back up what everyone else has said, encyclopedias should almost never be cited in professional writing. What's more, vandalism isn't the only problem. There may be information in articles that is simply wrong, misleading, or which promotes one point of view unduly over another. There is no guarantee that any page here is accurate because there are no credentials behind the editors. That's not to say that Wikipedia isn't a great starting point, but I would never dare cite any fact or figure in Wikipedia before finding a respectable first or second hand source that verifies it (this is the spirit of WP:V). -- mattb 17:27, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

No encyclopedia is a good source for scholarly work. You can use an encyclopedia for a general overview of a topic, but for more depth you should go directly to the kinds of sources that encyclopedias use. If you used Wikipedia this way, nobody would ever know because the sources you'd actually cite wouldn't be Wikipedia. Friday (talk) 17:15, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

'No encyclopedia is a good source for scholarly work'? With all due respect, I strongly disagree. Vranak

I'm curious whether you have any experience in professional journalism or writing for peer-reviewed resources. If so, would you honestly cite Wikipedia on a stated fact in your writing, putting the credibility of your work and perhaps your own credibility as an author into the hands of an unreviewed, unchecked resource? If you haven't, with all due respect, stop giving poor advice about something in which you've had no experience. -- mattb 00:15, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes. Though, for most of my time in High School the teachers allowed citing encyclopedias and random, crappy Internet sources. Only in a couple Grade 12 courses did they finally get serious about it. It doesn't strike me as the best way to prepare students for University, but they generally simply did not care about what the sources were. However, considering most High Schools don't have access to journals, the sources available for searching is a little more limited. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 17:19, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

(after edit conflict)It's a good rule, but they're citing the wrong reason. As you continue in your studies, you'll find that good academic writing demands references to primary and (some) secondary source material rather than a tertiary source like Wikipedia (or any other encyclopedia).

Remember, the rule is that you can't cite Wikipedia in your papers; there's no reason not to use Wikipedia in the course of your research. Wikipedia articles (like most encyclopedia articles, and many introductory-level textbooks) provides an excellent starting point; we give you an overview of a topic that you can use as a guide to further research. Many Wikipedia articles provide footnotes and references that point to primary sources for the information we provide. It is these sources that you should be following up with and citing in your writing.

Don't try to sneak around the rules you've been provided by lying to your teachers about your sources. Instead use this rule to improve the quality of your citations in your writing—drop all encyclopedias from your references. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 17:22, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Hear, hear. Just what I was thinking, but you're much more coherent... Carom 17:26, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

indeed. there is no reason to cite Wikipedia. Good Wikipedia articles cite their sources, and you can just cite those. Wikipedia articles that do not cite their sources you should disregard anyway. dab (𒁳) 17:31, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Don't listen to these guys atomicthumb, they are apparently part of the establishment. Vranak

There is no cabal! -Wooty Woot? contribs 19:10, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Even Wikipedia doesn't accept Wikipedia as a source; you can't cite another Wiki article because it doesn't qualify as a reliable source. -FisherQueen (Talk) 19:09, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

That's not a compelling argument as to why Wikipedia is useless for serious scholarship. It is simply a feature which says, 'no recursive citations'. Vranak

Just to put in my view, I concur with the positions given by Mattb, Jon513, TenOfAllTrades, Carom, and Dbachmann. Vranak has attacked their arguments (rather ineffectively, I should add) but has completely failed to articulate any coherent argument in support of his own position. I believe Vranak may be trolling. --Coolcaesar 20:30, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Although I too concur with TenOfAllTrades, et seq., this is not moot court and the purpose of the RefDesk is to answer questions, not argue cases. Speaking of which, getting back to the original question ... there are numerous sources that discuss this issue. Also, the faculty and administration of a school named after Sir Francis Drake may have reason to be afraid of getting fooled by sources of questionable credibility. Whether the fear is justifiable or not is a separate matter, best left to the discussion pages. (See also Criticism of Wikipedia). dr.ef.tymac 23:55, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

The reason you can't cite Wikipedia is because it is not always accurate, sorry to say. There is a lot of stuff on Wikipedia that isn't correct, whether placed there due to vandals, hoaxsters or just a well-meaning but mistaken person. What Wikipedia is good for is gathering background information and pointing you toward sources that your teacher will accept, like books. -- Mwalcoff 04:51, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

What is a FIRM base

Several times during your article on Hit you discuss FIRM base one and two. What are FIRM bases? I searced the web and am unable to find a good answer?

138.162.140.59 16:38, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

For the benefit of others, the question seems to be about Hīt, a town in Iraq. --LarryMac 16:47, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

I know nothing about the military, but I did Google "military jargon" and "firm base". If you go to the site [12], it contains a paragraph about what "firm bases" include. It seems to describe a permanent camp as opposed, I think, to a forward operating base. Bielle 18:09, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

A baby, an Aquos LC-52D62U and a Sony MDR-RF5000K !!!?

I have an Aquos LC-52D62U connected to my DVR from Comcast for HDTV reception; I also have a 9 months old at home and his Mom (my wife) that shouts everytime I turn on the volume up; So I decided to get a Sony wireless MRD-RF 5000K but I do not know how to connect it to my Aquos, or to the comscast DVR or to where??? Sony manual is quite poor in instructions. Please help.

Axel

Don't you just plug your base station in, plug the stereo cable into your TV in the earphone jack, make sure your haedphones are charged and voilà. --antilived^{T | C | G} 08:38, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Trail and Freeride bikes

Hello,

Just asking which bike out of a Trail of Freeride bike would be best for doing moderate jumps, ramps and drops (nothing more than about 3m high). And what sort of price are you looking at for each one (in GBP if you could please)?

Thanks, --84.66.18.84 17:02, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Gunther sunglasses

What brand/model of sunglasses does Mats Söderlund wear? Here's a closeup shot: [13]. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Rc251dc (talk • contribs) 18:55, 25 April 2007 (UTC).

Taxi accident statistics for NYC

Does anyone know where I can find the number of accidents taxis are involved in in New York City? Thanks. (I'm actually looking for a measure of how dangerous riding in NYC cabs is compared to riding with the average NYC driver. And this seemed like a good statistic to start with. Suggestions for and sources of other relevant statistics also welcome.) --noosphere 19:08, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Taxicab and Livery Crashes in New York City 2004: [14]

Crash rates are one-third lower for taxicabs and liveries than for other types of vehicles. The crash rate was 4.6 taxicabs involved in reported accidents per million miles traveled and 3.7 liveries involved in reported accidents per million miles traveled, compared with 6.7 vehicles involved in reported accidents per million miles for all vehicles in New York City, in 2004.

Rockpocket 22:03, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

US TV in New Zealand

If you bought a satilette, could u usei t watch US TV?

Probably. Of course, Satellites cost many millions of dollars, so just using it to pick up stray TV transmissions might be a bit of a waste.

If you are talking about a satellite television service, if you're in NZ you might want to look into SKY Network Television. FiggyBee 21:23, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

What our questioner is asking is: "If you bought a satellite TV dish, could you use it to watch US television in New Zealand?". Well, the satellites that broadcast TV to the USA are going to be on the other side of the planet from New Zealand - there is not possible way for you to pick up a US satellite there. So - the only possibility is that some New Zealand (or possibly Australian) satellite rebroadcasts American channels. I would bet that they all rebroadcast some american channels - so I wouldn't be at all surprised to find CNN (for example) - but some of the more obscure channels - I doubt it. SteveBaker 03:19, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Not exactly. The satellites that broadcast TV to the US are not necessarily "on the other side of the planet". Most satellites (but not all) are in a geostationary orbit over the Equator, and the difference in longitude between Honolulu and Auckland is less than that between Honolulu and Los Angeles. A broadcast from a geostationary satellite over or near Hawaii may be receivable in New Zealand. America is on the other side of the planet from the mid-Indian Ocean, south of India; New Zealand's quite a distance from there.

However, New Zealand uses a different television broadcast standard than North America. New Zealand, like much of the world, uses the PAL system, while the US uses NTSC. Unless you have a NTSC decoder (and the vast majority of TVs out of the box don't) you can't successfully watch NTSC broadcasts on a PAL box. --Charlene 03:59, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Is there a site that lists video service sites around the world?

I love YouTube, and I've been to Dailymotion (a video service site in France). And now, I want video sites to go to in other countries. Like Italy, Brazil, Japan, South Africa, the Middle East, and well others. Is there a site that lists international video service sites? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sirdrink13309622 (talk • contribs) 21:25, 25 April 2007 (UTC).

We have a (rather poor) list at Online video#Websites. Rockpocket 07:00, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

I can improve that! Meanwhile see http://unplug.mozdev.org/sites.html --h2g2bob 11:30, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

List of video sharing websites is where it's at! --h2g2bob 12:47, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

MySpace vs. Facebook?

How does MySpace compare to Facebook? Thanks! S.dedalus 21:30, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

In what respect? Carom 22:11, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

One of the differences is that MySpace allows user customized HTML and CSS layouts, while all Facebook profiles have identical layouts. As attractive as it seems towards MySpace, I think it is ultimately one of its downfalls as many users bloat up their profiles with large files and complicated scripts that dramatically increases load times. Jamesino 00:48, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

In terms of differences between the two social communities, differences in how the pages are used, differences in features, and possibly differences in the policies of the two sites. S.dedalus 01:50, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

I think facebook is largely for college/university students, whereas myspace is more used by kids and bands looking for their big break. Just a rough impression though.137.138.46.155 08:03, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Facebook is centered around organising events (like having a party!) and on hosting photographs of people. I'm not so sure of MySpace's appeal, but I know they treat bands and musicians well, and it is easy to add music and videos. MySpace is indexed by search engines, while Facebook is not; so lots of people use MySpace for promotion. Both allow you to leave messages and talk with friends. --h2g2bob 11:29, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

trinidad and tobago laws and average wage

I have tried several times to find the average monthly or yearly salary for port of spain trinidad and tobago... no luck. the minimum wage is $9.00, but for various unskilled jobs I came up with nothing. Also, I am trying to find out the average child support payments there and the child enforcement laws regarding this. Anything would be helpful at this point, I am running in circles. Thanks. ali

JULIUS CAESAR SPEECH

Hi this is Anonoymous. I'm doing an speech on Julius Caesar. What can I add in that will give me an A+? 71.141.112.218 23:33, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

What you can add to get an A+ is your own work. As it says above under How to ask a question, "Do your own homework. The reference desk won't give you answers for your homework, although we will try to help you out if there's a specific part of your homework you don't understand. Make an effort to show that you've tried solving it first." - Eron ^Talk 23:50, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Ah, go on.

• Who was he
• Why is he well known
  • Aa a general
  • As emperor
  • As a famously assassinated person
  • As an author
• What sources do we have for our knowledge of him (e.g. his books, contemporary books about him)
• How well known is he
  • Biblical reference to Caesers. (render unto Caeser...)
  • Shakespeare play
  • If in UK, conquest of Britain

Stuff like that, I guess. Remember not to plagiarize the wikipedia article. Work out what tone of voice you're going to use: serious student or Bill & Ted?--Tagishsimon (talk)

Think about your presentation. This is a speech, so how you present it will be marked; the best content in the world won't help if you look at your paper and mumble. Practice so that you can do most of it without reading. Use cue cards to keep track of where you are rather than reading from a paper. Have a couple of visual aids - posters, props - and use them. Speak clearly and make eye contact with your audience. Sound like you believe what you are saying. - Eron ^Talk 00:36, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Pretend you are Mark Antony, and do a version of his famous oration (Julius Caesar, Shakespeare, Act 3, Scene 2) along the lines of Friends, Romans, Countrymen...I come to praise Caesar, not to bury him... If you master your brief, and if you speak clearly, you should do pretty well. Good luck. Clio the Muse 00:48, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Make sure your speech has an argument. Have something bold to say about him. Don't just recite facts. Nobody cares about details except those who already know them. Tell them something they don't expect. --24.147.86.187 00:49, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Tagishsimon, for your benefit, I think you should know that Caesar came to Britain, Caesar saw Britain, but Caesar did not conquer Britain! Clio the Muse 00:53, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

<hangs head in shame, awards self D minus> --Tagishsimon (talk)

Your speech was superb, though. That alone deserves an A+ Clio the Muse 01:00, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

I came to this page, I saw it, and I concur. :) JackofOz 02:35, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

You could start by asking the audience to lend you their ears.137.138.46.155 08:05, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Just don't ask them to wash the blood off your toga. JackofOz 08:33, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

don't mention the salad :)Perry-mankster 09:08, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Research more than the bare minimum - that way you can just include the best bits, and you'll know what you're talking about a bit more which means you'll be more confident. To keep all the facts on his life connected (rather than a list of facts), you might like to have a common theme, like showing his willingness to take risks, or his use of military force to get things done, or his lust for power: something to tie together the events into a story. Don't be afraid to be forceful and opinionated, but be prepared to support your views. Being opinionated should be easy: he committed adultery with Cleopatra and declared himself a god! Read through the wikipedia page as a starting point, and look for books on the subject at your local library. --h2g2bob 11:15, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

April 26

The Speed of a Canal Boat

Hello Wikipedians.

This summer I am planning on hiring a canal boat and sailing (is that the correct term?) it from my home in Birmingham to Bristol and back. Upon having a brief search around the Internets, it seems that most of the companies that hire out do so by the week.

However, I have absolutely no idea a voyage from Brum to Brizzle would take! I have seen canal boats in action, and they do not seem to be the quickest of vehicles. But really, I have little comprehension of the timescales involved in traversing the country. So, if Wikipedia would be so kind as to inform me, how fast can your standard canal barge travel, and how long would it then take me to get to my destination and back.

Thank you, 194.80.32.12 23:56, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

If you know which route you wish to take (see here for a guide) you can cross-reference the route with Jim Shead's list of cruising times for different canals. Rockpocket 01:36, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

It's not a matter of how fast the boat will go - it's all to do with the speed limits they post all over the canals. A significant number of lock gates will slow you down no end too - especially if there is a long line of inexperienced people trying to get through ahead of you. But ask the people you rent from - they'll have a really solid idea of how far you can realistically go in the time available. Stehttp://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/button_sig.pngveBaker 02:31, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

You don't "sail" a narrowboat - you are boating or cruising. The speed limit on British inland waterways is 4mph, but the distance you actually travel in one day will be determined by factors such as locks and tunnels on your route, weather conditions, whether you are sharing the skippering with anyone else, how experienced your crew are, and, most importantly, how hard you want to "work" on your holiday. If you are continually worrying about making a certain distance before it gets dark (cruising after dark has dangers and most hire boats companies do not allow it) then you will not enjoy your holiday. If you are making your crew get up early and miss meal breaks then they will not thank you either. Definitely ask a local hire company for advice. For general information on boat handling and safety, British Waterways publish a useful Boater's Handbook. Gandalf61 08:52, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Suspect online transaction

I just listed a laptop on craigslist and have someone interested by I'm suspicious for several reasons. First, my price wasn't very competitive. Second, this was a local, Illinois listing, but the buyer wants it shipped to Nigeria. Third, her email comes from Yahoo mail and Yahoo says her message came from an IP in California; that means her email went from Nigeria to California to Illinois. Fourth, though I hate to stereotype, I've heard a lot of online scams coming from Nigeria. However, she agrees to pay me via paypal before I let the computer leave my hands, so I'm safe right? It feels like one of those 'too good to be true' situations. I'm not versed in online commerce, so I'm not sure what to think. --Ephilei 01:25, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

No, you're not safe. Please read Craigs List's scam page. And if you google "PayPal scam nigeria" you can see how secure PayPal is for these sorts of things. If it's too good to be true then don't do it. --24.147.86.187 01:50, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Did you mean "how insecure paypal is"? --Ephilei 02:21, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

The most common scam of this kind is that they overpay - ask you to send them the balance - then the original payment bounces. It's hard to see how that could happen with paypal though. Paypal won't give you the money until the cheque has cleared - so as long as they pay the exact correct amount and you make really, REALLY sure you have the money in hand - then it's hard to see how they can be scamming you. I guess the other possibility is that they may ask you for all manner of personal information from you - and use that to do some variety of identity theft. But so long as you tell them only the barest minimum and you have the money in hand before you ship it - I don't see a problem with doing this. Don't forget to erase all of your personal data from the hard drive before you ship it - you'll want to use one of those data 'scrubbers' to prevent a potential bad guy from extracting credit card numbers using an 'un-delete' tool. SteveBaker 02:28, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Right. I've waiting until I'm absolutely certain the money's in my account before shipping anything. After this conversation, I may even call Paypal to doublecheck and record the call. The laptop is a macbook and I'm using the OS X 35 pass erase process. It takes 18 hours to complete, so the hard drive should be 60GB of pure zeroes. --Ephilei 02:46, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

I would be extremely leery of this proposition. While there is certainly a chance it is a legitimate offer, the "too good to be true" rule is a fairly safe one in relation to online transactions. If you do go ahead beware of the PayPal scam where you are sent a fake confirmation e-mail purportedly from PayPal telling you the payment has been transfered to your account. Another possiblity is that you will be paid with a hacked/compromised PayPal account, which could lead to all kinds of hassle after the actual account owner notices the unauthorized payment. Personally, I wouldn't touch this offer...WP:AGF does not apply to Nigeria, your noble desire to avoid stereotyping notwithstanding. Azi Like a Fox 09:37, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Nigeria is famous for their online scammers - all the most entertaining spam comes from there (unlike this BBSpot parody :-) One Nigerian official said that scams have "become very popular in Nigeria."[15] But don't worry - I don't think they can scam you (not when you've got the money safe via PayPal), but they may be using a stolen credit card number... --h2g2bob 09:54, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

I fear that we may be stereotyping persons from an entire nation, which would be a violation of WP:BLP. There are doubtless some honest consumers in Nigeria who really want to buy used computers. That said, there are probably ways to cheat a seller even when payment is by Paypal. Perhaps the purchaser could deny receiving the merchandise, or substitute a defective computer for the original and demand his money back, or use a guarantee feature in Paypal to get his money back by claiming that you somehow comitted fraud, not to mention somehow getting your information for ID theft purposes. For an account of someone turning the tables and scamming the scammer, see [16]. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Edison (talk • contribs) 16:31, 26 April 2007 (UTC).

Say what you want about stereotyping but this isn't an article so policies don't matter. That would be like if someone called you a dirty name in traffic and you asked them for a reference. Recury 17:07, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Cowslip Poisoning Potential

I'm getting somewhat contradictory information about cowslips on-line. You can eat the greens, but the flowers are poisonous. And maybe you don't want to eat the greens taken from a flowering plant. Although this is difficult, because they bloom about two minutes after they emerge. I do know the raw leaves of a flowering plant made my mouth feel funny. What's the deal? Mothperson cocoon 02:51, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

My guess is the confusion arises from the fact that their are two varieties of flower known as "Cowslip". One is poisonous, the other isn't. Caltha palustris is an irritant, while Primula veris is used medicinally. gorffy 04:36, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Aha! A line to pursue. Thank you very much. Mothperson cocoon 11:26, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Hi ... Problem with page.

Hi the page : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toilet#Khazi

Has been hacked by someone. I thought you should know. It says I can fix it myself but I don’t really care that much. Its your problem, not mine (Sorry if that sounds short, but I have spent 5 mins trying to navigate to a page that didn’t 'pass the buck' and I'm starting to get annoyed.

The entry within the page has the paragraph:

Crapper The Crapper another term in general use, along with the word 'crap' meaning excrement. Crapper is the name of one Thomas Crapper who is mistakenly associated with the invention of the modern flush toilet. He did have several patents related to plumbing, but the word "crap" predates him. Also crappity crap crap is fuck.

Its this last sentence that is obviously incorrect.

"Also crappity crap crap is fuck." is obviously a site hack.

Thought you should know. If this is not the page to tell you ... sorry. If you want me to put it in the correct place, don’t use links that link you to explanations and further links. It ends up circular. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 193.60.161.49 (talk) 08:30, 26 April 2007 (UTC).

Fixed - X201 09:09, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

As wikipedia can be edited by anyone, someone just added that text. Normally this sort of thing is noticed and put right quickly - often in under a minute. See Wikipedia:Vandalism. --h2g2bob 09:38, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Now that is odd. A person can't be bothered to fix the article, but does have the time to come here and write this long explanation? Hmmm... Clarityfiend 14:11, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Telepathic internet article

I recently submitted an article entitled "Telepathic Internet", which has been filed in the "articles for deletion" category. I have now re-written the introductory paragraphs as promised, removing the magazine-article spam.

I recognise that the subject of this article is not what most people would describe as mainstream science. I acknowledge that it may be seen as rather esoteric or spiritual for most people.

My intention in writing this article is (metaphorically speaking) to plant a seed. I would appreciate it if a place could be found for the article other than the deletion file (articles for deletion). I reccognise that it may not get a lot of use immediately, but if left to germinate and be discovered by web-browsing spiritualists, it could grow into something wonderful in a few years time.

I can reassure all concerned that I currently have no plans to submit further articles. I look forward to seeing this article off the deletion list. I can be contacted at (email address redacted to prevent spam) for one-to-one discussion on this matter.

     Many Thanks,
 (\0/)  Arthur  (\0/)
  /_\ Phillipson /_\

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Arthur Phillipson (talk • contribs) 09:54, 26 April 2007 (UTC).

The problem with your article is that it is on a subject that may not be considered notable. Additionally, it doesn't contain any references to previously published information. For those reasons, I'm afraid that your article is likely to be deleted. In any event, the proper place to argue its case is not here, but the article's deletion page. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 09:59, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

The article certainly doesn't reach any of Wikipedia quality standards - I would certainly vote for a speedy deletion. The trouble is that it doesn't approach the subject from a neutral point of view - where are the views of people saying that this is a load of nonsense? Where are the references showing that you didn't just think this up by yourself? Wikipedia has lots of carefully thought out rules about this kind of fringe subject - and you aren't meeting any of them. Wikipedia isn't a place for you to publicise crazy ideas like this one in the hope that in so doing you'll get them publicity and thereby allow them to "germinate". This is an encyclopedia - whose job it is solely to document what is real - and what can be verified by books, magazine articles, etc. So this article has to go - and I'm heading over to the AfD page to vote against it. SteveBaker 12:37, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Strange car

Can any of you help me? I have recently seen a car I didn't recognise, and I don't have enough info on the brand or the model to do a good search. It is a sports cabrio with an extremely low front window (about 20 cm high), two seater, no top, no rollbars, engine in the back, rounded (not "edgy") design, a bit reminiscent of (a heavier version of) the Fiat Barchetta. I haven't seen the front very well, on the side it had either "Spyker" or "Spyder" in tiny metal letters (but it doesn't look like any Spyker I could find info on, so I suppose it's "Spyder", and it isn't the Renault Spyder). It looked like a fairly recent car, not an oldtimer at all. The most recognisable element (apart from the front window) is probably the back: it had a square cooling grille, and behind it eleven circular holes (with a very rough estimate diamter of 10 cm each?), ordered like this:

O O O O O O

_O O O O O

I haven't seen any indication of brand, model, ... I hope this description rings a bell with someone! Fram 11:45, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Could it be a Porsche 550, better known as a Porsche Spyder? It fits every bit of your description except for the circular holes (although by "behind the grille", I understand this as meaning "on the body between the grilles and the roof". If you mean "under the grilles", my mistake. I don't know what the inside of a Spyder cooling grille looks like). Laïka 11:59, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

The problem is that Spyder is a common word meaning any low, convertible car. You may want to look at the list of cars on that page and see if any of them fit the car you saw. Laïka 12:07, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

While the Porsche 550 comes close, there are differences: the car I see looked a lot more modern (1990s or 2000s), didn't have a head "bump" (the elongated support behind the driver's head), had a cooling grille in one part (550 is in two parts), and of course had the 11 holes between the cooling grille and the rear of the car (not between the seats and the grille). But the general feeling of the car is similar,as if someone has tried to make a modern 550. Thanks for the replis so far anyway! Fram 12:23, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

I know nothing about cars, but I think Alfa Romeo produced a Spyder/spider model. The host of a TV show about Italy drove around the country in it... the car was utterly gorgeous. --Dweller 15:48, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Good old Wikipedia. I found the article at Alfa Romeo Spider. Could be that it's not what you're looking for, but it's a laaaarvly motah! --Dweller 15:50, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

What style headlights does the car have? Did it have 2 circles? 2 oval shapes, 4 circles/4 other shapes etc.? I tend to find headlights on modern cars are one of the more distinctive parts. From what you have said so far it could be a tvr chimeara though i've not seen any coming with 'spyker' written on it. Alternatively if it is was quite expensive looking it could be one of those dutch ones (koenigsegg) without its roof on but they are very distinctive and pretty darn rare too! What country did you see it in (that might help also)? ny156uk 16:28, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

You could try this [17]--ChesterMarcol 16:42, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Page Numbering Conventions

Hello, I am looking for different page numbering conventions that may be used in a technical catalog. Where can I find specifics for this type of numbering: 1-1.1.1a , etc. Thank you for your help. 70.90.19.226

Treasure

1. Did pirates really bury thier treasure? 2. Has any every been found 3. Does anyone look for them? 4. Man has been mining jewels and gold, diamond ect. What has happened to them all? surley there must be millions of very old cut diamond out there, but Ive never seen one. Thanks —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.143.142.68 (talk) 14:44, 26 April 2007 (UTC).

1. According to our article on buried treasure, no not really, apart from this one, who may have done it once. (Of course, all that really means is that there are no confirmed cases. It's difficult to prove that no pirate has ever done this.)

2. Given the above, no. (Although again, all we can say is that we know of no cases where buried pirate treasure has been found. Who knows? Maybe someone found some and kept quiet about it.)

3. All the time. See Oak Island, for example.

4. Good question. I'm sure they are out there somewhere.

- Eron ^Talk 14:58, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

According to Koh-i-Noor, diamond mining was restricted to India for most of history, so that's where to look for old diamonds. I don't know how old you mean by 'very old', but the Koh-i-Noor seems to have been around for 500 years at least, possibly much longer. Of course, it's hard to be sure exactly how old a given old diamond is: there are stories of famous diamonds going back millennia, but how do you know they're about the same thing you've got? Algebraist 15:35, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

As kidd

As kidd sao:

Rakelkidd (Raquel Almendra Campos) & Tokaskidd (Marta Ribeiro de Almeida Pereira de Oliveira - o "tokas" vem de "martokas"!)

que sao melhores amigs desde o 4º ano!

Sao invenciveis!

Sao inceparaveis!

Sao ... ... ...

AS KIDD!

lutadoras de wrestling (ja ganharam ao john sena) & agentes secretas!!! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by As kidd (talk • contribs) 16:53, 26 April 2007 (UTC).

• Inglés por favor--VectorPotential^Talk 16:56, 26 April 2007 (UTC)