User talk:LessHeard vanU and Steven Taylor (footballer): Difference between pages

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{{otherpersons|Steven Taylor}}
{{Warning|If you leave a message here this editor will possibly reply on your talkpage, or here, or on the talkpage of an article concerned, or somewhere else, or any combination of the above. It is probably best for you to suggest the preferred arena for a response... [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] 00:19, 29 April 2007 (UTC) }}
{{Infobox Football biography
| playername = Steven Taylor
| image = [[Image:Steven Taylor.png]]
| fullname = Steven Vincent Taylor
| height = {{height|meters=1.88}}
| dateofbirth = {{birth date and age|1986|1|23}}
| cityofbirth = [[London]]
| countryofbirth = [[England]]
| currentclub = [[Newcastle United F.C.|Newcastle United]]
| clubnumber = 27
| position = [[Defender (association football)|Defender]]
| youthyears = 1995–2002
| youthclubs = [[Newcastle United F.C.|Newcastle United]]
| years = 2002&ndash;<br />2003&ndash;2004
| clubs = [[Newcastle United F.C.|Newcastle United]]<br />→ [[Wycombe Wanderers F.C.|Wycombe Wanderers]] (loan)
| caps(goals) = 91 (4)<br />{{0}}6 (0)
| nationalyears = 2004&ndash;<br />2007
| nationalteam = [[England national under-21 football team|England U21]]<br />[[England B national football team|England B]]
| nationalcaps(goals) = 27 (4)<br />{{0}}1 (0)
| pcupdate = 16:50, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
| ntupdate = 19:41, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
}}
'''Steven Vincent Taylor''' (born [[January 23]], [[1986]] in [[Greenwich]], [[London]]) is an [[England|English]] [[Association football|footballer]], currently playing for [[Premier League]] club [[Newcastle United F.C.|Newcastle United]]. He is a [[Defender (association football)|central defender]] who can also play at right back and is sometimes utilised as a left back.


==Club career==
{{Notice|If you have come to this page to complain about my language in my edit summaries, most likely involving editing ''in'' the name of the area and/or nation in articles, then I would like to apologise '''here, ''now''''' for any offense caused..... LHvU }}
===Early career===
Taylor had started playing football as a [[striker]]. In [[1995]], following injury-absence of defensive players, Taylor was forced to play as a centre-half, and following successful performances, was told that he would not be moving back to centre-forward.


Taylor moved to [[Wycombe Wanderers F.C.|Wycombe Wanderers]] in December [[2003]] for a month-long loan deal in order to get first team experience. He made his [[English football league system|league]] debut in Wycombe colours, in a 1&ndash;1 away draw against [[Notts County F.C.|Notts County]] on [[December 13]]. He played a total of six games for the club in the loan period that lasted until [[January 11]], [[2004]]. He was a very popular player at Wycombe, having a large influence despite his youth and limited number of appearances.
{{Important| '''Caveat'''
Should I receive information by private means I shall consider that the sender has waived any claim of copyright or privacy on their part of the message and has obtained such permission on the part of any third parties whose post(s) form part of the message. By communicating with me outside of Wikipedia spaces you are giving me permission to disseminate the content of any message in the manner of my choosing, and you hold yourself liable for any violation of law, Wikipedia policies, service providers Terms of Service, and other consequence of my making public of such information.


===2004-05===
You may request privacy, and I may honour such a request, but I am not bound by it. Mark Slater([[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] 00:53, 1 December 2007 (UTC))}}
On [[March 25]], Taylor finally made his debut for Newcastle, also his European debut. It came in the [[UEFA Cup]] 3&ndash;0 win against [[RCD Mallorca]], when he replaced [[Andy O'Brien (footballer)|Andy O'Brien]]. The full debut, which was also the [[Premier League]] debut, followed soon, on [[March 28]], against [[Bolton Wanderers F.C.|Bolton Wanderers]] at the [[Reebok Stadium]]. Taylor wears the number 27 shirt at Newcastle in recognition of [[Philippe Albert]], a former Newcastle player, who also wore 27.


The start of the [[FA Premier League 2004–05|2004&ndash;05]] season was disappointing, as Taylor picked up an injury, and could not play for a long time. He eventually came back to play 22 games for the club, thus salvaging his season. He was also involved in a bizarre incident in a home game against Aston Villa in which he saved a Darius Vassell effort with his hand. Taylor grabbed his ribs in agony as he tried to con the referee into believing it had hit his torso. Not falling for it, he was sent off and the penalty was converted, however this was largely overshadowed by the Bowyer Dyer fight which happened in the same game. Because his dive has inconsequential (the game was beyond Newcastle as Dyer and Bowyer had been sent off), he achieved cult/comical status with Newcastle fans and many neutrals.


===2005-06===
{{Archive box| [[/archive 1|"won"]] [[/archive 2|"too"]] [[/archive 3|three]] [[/archive 4|"fore"]] [[/archive 5|"fie've"]] <br> [[/archive 6|"sicks"]] [[/archive 7|"'S 'eaven!"]] [[/archive 8|"ate"]] [[/archive 9|"Nein!"]] <br> [[/archive 10|"TEN...sion..."]] [[/archive 11|"eel 'eaven"]] [[/archive 12|"'twere elve'"]]}}
Taylor suffered a serious shoulder injury training for the England Under 21's, of which he further aggravated against [[Liverpool F.C.|Liverpool]] on Boxing Day 2005. This injury kept him out for the rest of the season, with the defending being left to [[Titus Bramble]], [[Jean-Alain Boumsong]], [[Peter Ramage]] and [[Craig Moore]]. He did, however, make a substitute appearance in [[Alan Shearer]]'s testimonial match on [[May 11]]. During the 2005 season, youth graduates Taylor and Ramage became fan favourites, due to the frequent mistakes and errors of the now departed pair, Bramble and Boumsong.


===2006-07===
Considered Taylor's breakthrough season, his first senior goal for the club came against [[Celta de Vigo]] on [[November 23]], [[2006]] in the UEFA Cup. It turned out to be the winner in a 2&ndash;1 victory for Newcastle. He then scored his first Premiership goal for Newcastle in a 3-1 victory against [[Blackburn Rovers F.C.|Blackburn Rovers]] on [[9 December]], [[2006]], and began to play more regularly, making 12 starts for Newcastle in defence.


In the match versus [[Birmingham City F.C.|Birmingham City]], in the [[FA Cup]] on [[January 7]], he was voted Man of the Match after grabbing Newcastle's equaliser, clearing off the line and giving an all round great performance. Taylor played in the replay against Birmingham on [[January 17]], although he was sent off after fouling [[DJ Campbell]].
{{Archive box| [[/archive#.2AAbtract.2C_Collectonian_.26_Sesshomaru.2A|Abtract, Collectonian & Sesshomaru]] [[/archive#.2AFreemasonry.2A|Freemasonry]]}}


Taylor's second league goal, the winner in Newcastle's 2-1 away win on Saturday [[7 April]], at [[Sheffield United F.C.|Sheffield United]]. His powerful header proved to be the goal that helped Sheffield United be relegated. Taylor was called up the full [[England national football team|England squad]] at the end of the season but did not come off the bench. He also made a senior appearance for the [[England B national football team|England B]] team.


===2007-08===
Taylor started the season in and out of the team under new manager, [[Sam Allardyce]]. Held responsible for the 3&ndash;1 defeat to [[Manchester City F.C.|Manchester City]], he lost his place to new defenders [[David Rozehnal]] and [[Caçapa]], before winning it back and forming a partnership with [[Abdoulaye Diagne-Faye]] in central defence after Allardyce's sacking and the appointment of [[Kevin Keegan]]. After an impressive season in which Taylor played 31 Premier League games, he signed a new three year contract worth £35,000 a week.<ref>{{cite news
|date=[[2008-07-04]]
|url=http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11095_3776136,00.html
|title=New Magpies deal for Taylor
|publisher=Sky Sports
|accessdate=2008-07-04}}</ref>


==International career==
== Re. Heads up ==
In November 2001, Taylor, playing in the [[England national under-16 football team|England Under-16]] team at the Walkers International Tournament, was adjudged Player of the Tournament. Following this, in July 2002, he signed his professional contract with Newcastle. That season he also made his debut for the club Reserve team. In March 2003, the [[England national under-17 football team|England Under-17]] team qualified for the European Championships, and in the match against [[Slovakia]], Taylor scored his first two goals for England. He also played in [[2003 FIFA World Youth Championship]].


Following a good showing at the Under-20 World Championship at [[Dubai]], Taylor made his [[England national under-21 football team|England under-21]] debut on [[February 17]], in a 3-2 win over the [[Netherlands national under-21 football team|Netherlands]].
Thanks and yes they are being encouraged to come them to come to the articles talk page. I will do more along those lines either tonight or tommorrow.
There are definite signs that this is merely a case of newbies not understanding wiki policy. Thanks again for your help. [[User:Albion moonlight|Albion moonlight]] ([[User talk:Albion moonlight|talk]]) 09:25, 14 July 2008 (UTC)


In June 2005 Taylor represented [[England national under-20 football team|England Under-20]] at the Toulon International Tournament, where England finished in third place. On [[September 6]], [[2005]], he scored his first under-21 goal, against the [[Germany national under-21 football team|German]] side. He also scored two goals against the [[Poland national under-21 football team|Poland Under-21s]] in October 2005.
== [[Securities fraud]] ==


Taylor played a key role for England under-21s as they progressed to the semi-finals of the [[2007 UEFA European Under-21 Football Championship|U21 Euro 2007]]. He missed the first match but played the other two group games and the semi-final where, after picking up an ankle injury just minutes before, he was unable to stop the [[Netherlands national under-21 football team|Netherlands]]' late equaliser. After playing through extra-time with the injury, he was called upon to take part in the penalty shootout, and converted his spot-kick, although England exited the tournament after losing the shootout 13-12.
This has been [[WP:RFPU|requested for unprotection]]. I am inclined to grant the request but given the circumstances would like your opinion. (If replying, please drop by my talk page.) [[User:Stifle|Stifle]] ([[User talk:Stifle/wizard|talk]]) 09:52, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
:Same for [[Naked short selling]]. [[User:Stifle|Stifle]] ([[User talk:Stifle/wizard|talk]]) 13:45, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
:I just thought I would follow up on unprotecting the article. Cheers --[[User:PatrickFlaherty|PatrickFlaherty]] ([[User talk:PatrickFlaherty|talk]]) 03:16, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
::You look pretty busy, so things are probably getting lost in the shuffle. I'm going to semi-protect the article(s) for now; feel free to stop by if you think that's unacceptable. I'll keep an eye on them for a while to make sure that peeps are behaving. --[[User:Marumari|Marumari]] ([[User talk:Marumari|talk]]) 17:13, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
:::Actually, I'm just going to do it to naked short selling, since I'm more familiar with the article. I'll let you take care of Securities Fraud. --[[User:Marumari|Marumari]] ([[User talk:Marumari|talk]]) 17:19, 18 July 2008 (UTC)


== Thanks ==
==References==
<!--This article uses the Cite.php citation mechanism. If you would like more information on how to add references to this article, please see http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Cite/Cite.php -->
{{reflist}}


==External links==
I appreciate your clearing the recent vandalism. Thanks again.--[[User:Caspian blue|Caspian blue]] ([[User talk:Caspian blue|talk]]) 20:51, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
*{{soccerbase|id=37277|name=Steven Taylor}}
:Cool. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 21:25, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
*[http://www.nufc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/Profiles/0,,10278~29564,00.html Profile] at the official [[Newcastle United FC]] website
*[http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/shared/bsp/hi/football/statistics/players/t/taylor_247146.stm Profile] at [[BBC]]
*[http://www.premierleague.com/fapl.rac?command=forwardOnly&nextPage=enPlayerProfile&playerId=247146 Profile] at premierleague.com
*[http://www.4thegame.com/club/newcastle-united-fc/player-profile/4756/steventaylor.html Profile] at 4thegame.com
*[http://www.sporting-heroes.net/football-heroes/displayhero_club.asp?HeroID=10118 Photo and stats] at sporting-heroes.com


{{Newcastle United F.C. squad}}
== [[User talk:Rollosmokes]] ==


<!-- Metadata: see [[Wikipedia:Persondata]] -->
If he starts in on his "The CW" antics again, we'll be right back on the [[WP:ANI]] page again. [[User:Baseball Bugs|Baseball Bugs]] <sup>''[[User talk:Baseball Bugs|What's up, Doc?]]''</sup> 12:12, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
:I advised him that if he stays away from that, I'll stay away from him. "Good faith" has nothing to do with it. I don't know him from Adam. All I know is that ''he's wrong'' about this "The CW" nonsense. As long as he leaves that alone, I should be able to leave him alone. The rest of his edits are about technical details about the radio and TV stations that I assume or hope he knows what he's talking about. It's when he gets into this "grammar" stuff that he gets himself in trouble. [[User:Baseball Bugs|Baseball Bugs]] <sup>''[[User talk:Baseball Bugs|What's up, Doc?]]''</sup> 12:38, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
::And speaking of "good faith", his first act if and when he comes back should be to wipe the personal attacks off his talk page. Or ''you'' could do that, as it's a rules violation, yes? [[User:Baseball Bugs|Baseball Bugs]] <sup>''[[User talk:Baseball Bugs|What's up, Doc?]]''</sup> 12:59, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
:::Personal attacks are against the rules. Why does he get to decide when or if to remove them? [[User:Baseball Bugs|Baseball Bugs]] <sup>''[[User talk:Baseball Bugs|What's up, Doc?]]''</sup> 13:18, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
::::I don't care what he calls me. But he named 6 others, and they might. And as [[User:Neil]] pointed out to me a couple of weeks ago, even if I don't care about a personal attack, it's against the rules and should not be tolerated. [[User:Baseball Bugs|Baseball Bugs]] <sup>''[[User talk:Baseball Bugs|What's up, Doc?]]''</sup> 13:32, 15 July 2008 (UTC)


{{Persondata
He's back, and promising to resume the edit war. [[User:Baseball Bugs|Baseball Bugs]] <sup>''[[User talk:Baseball Bugs|What's up, Doc?]]''</sup> 16:02, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
|NAME= Taylor, Steven Vincent
:And having been sufficiently rebuked for daring to continue to speak out against this guy's behavior, I've had enough of this topic. I have marked the issue resolved, removed my comments from his talk page, and am no longer watching either his page or his edits. He wins. If our paths never cross again, it will be too soon. [[User:Baseball Bugs|Baseball Bugs]] <sup>''[[User talk:Baseball Bugs|What's up, Doc?]]''</sup> 18:20, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
|ALTERNATIVE NAMES= Taylor, Steven
::(You have archived your page, so I shall respond here) Him or me? Ah, well... [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 19:55, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
|SHORT DESCRIPTION=
:::No, I mean him, not you. :) Currently there may be only one or two articles he and I have in common, but not for this issue. And for safety's sake, I won't say which ones. :) [[User:Baseball Bugs|Baseball Bugs]] <sup>''[[User talk:Baseball Bugs|What's up, Doc?]]''</sup> 20:15, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
|DATE OF BIRTH= 1986-1-23
::::Cool. If you have further probs it looks like OhnoitsJamie has stepped up to the plate. I will be happy to review as well, but I generally issue indef blocks on the basis that I will overturn if the offender says they will try to sort things out (I don't tell them this, of course, when I do) but I also unblock on the basis that I will re-instate it if they don't live up to their promises (and I don't tell them that, either). Since I am not involved in the content dispute I can afford to look at the "what's best for WP" question, but I am aware it can be frustrating for those that are involved. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 20:21, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
|PLACE OF BIRTH= [[London]], [[England]]
:::::I will maintain a very low profile on this one, as the other admin has promised to watch it. I have other things to do. :) [[User:Baseball Bugs|Baseball Bugs]] <sup>''[[User talk:Baseball Bugs|What's up, Doc?]]''</sup> 20:29, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
|DATE OF DEATH=
::::::It may be starting again - he just [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=WPSG&diff=226258065&oldid=226230361 reverted] someone on [[WPSG]], but he slipped in a "CW" only change, which was NOT part of the [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=WPSG&diff=226230361&oldid=222893276 other edit] he reverted. I've corrected his "mistake", but this bears watching. [[User:TheRealFennShysa|TheRealFennShysa]] ([[User talk:TheRealFennShysa|talk]]) 16:01, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
|PLACE OF DEATH=
:::::::I see Kingturtle has protected the page. Kudos. One mole whacked. Now let's see a show of hands from anyone who's surprised that Rollosmokes continued his ''The CW'' "grammar" crusade... Anybody? ... I didn't think so. [[User:Baseball Bugs|Baseball Bugs]] <sup>''[[User talk:Baseball Bugs|What's up, Doc?]]''</sup> 17:00, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
}}
::::::::He's still [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=WFXR-TV&diff=226280690&oldid=226233715 at it] with the "CW" changes... - [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=KHON-TV&diff=prev&oldid=226284275 and again]... [[User:TheRealFennShysa|TheRealFennShysa]] ([[User talk:TheRealFennShysa|talk]]) 18:15, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
{{DEFAULTSORT:Taylor, Steven}}
:::::::::The article is now protected. I suggest that some form of discussion regarding what the consensus is for the proper infobox titling is started on the talkpage. In the meantime, I am trying to see if someone might be amenable to asking Rollosmokes to leave the matter alone. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 20:22, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
[[Category:1986 births]]
::::::::::The other two articles are not protected. Good luck getting somewhat to write something to him that he will listen to. It won't be me. :) [[User:Baseball Bugs|Baseball Bugs]] <sup>''[[User talk:Baseball Bugs|What's up, Doc?]]''</sup> 23:51, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
[[Category:People from Greenwich]]
[[Category:People from London]]
[[Category:Living people]]
[[Category:English footballers]]
[[Category:Football (soccer) central defenders]]
[[Category:Newcastle United F.C. players]]
[[Category:Wycombe Wanderers F.C. players]]
[[Category:Premier League players]]
[[Category:The Football League players]]
[[Category:England under-21 international footballers]]
[[Category:England B international footballers]]


[[ar:ستيفن تايلور]]
Today he got his second indefinite block in the space of a week. Is that a record? [[User:Baseball Bugs|Baseball Bugs]] <sup>''[[User talk:Baseball Bugs|What's up, Doc?]]''</sup> 13:26, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
[[de:Steven Taylor]]
:Meanwhile, I, his Number 1 "vulture", did nothing to him this time. Must have been one of the other "vultures". Of which there appear to be a growing list. But all is not lost. It's an inspiration. [[User:Baseball Bugs|Baseball Bugs]] <sup>''[[User talk:Baseball Bugs|What's up, Doc?]]''</sup> 13:31, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
[[it:Steven Taylor]]
::What I'm surprised at is that it happened so fast. You'd think he would lay low for awhile. Meanwhile, I don't know if he's tried to get on today, but if so, ''he'' shouldn't be surprised, especially given his complaints that everyone's watching him. [[User:Baseball Bugs|Baseball Bugs]] <sup>''[[User talk:Baseball Bugs|What's up, Doc?]]''</sup> 19:33, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
[[ja:スティーブン・テイラー (サッカー選手)]]
:::Kudos to the blocking admin OhnoitsJamie. He promised to block if the disruption continued. The user promised to continue the disruption. Both of them kept their promises. [[User:Baseball Bugs|Baseball Bugs]] <sup>''[[User talk:Baseball Bugs|What's up, Doc?]]''</sup> 19:45, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
[[no:Steven Vincent Taylor]]
::::The blocking admin also wiped the talk page, including the "final shot" at all of us "vultures". ''Finis.'' [[User:Baseball Bugs|Baseball Bugs]] <sup>''[[User talk:Baseball Bugs|What's up, Doc?]]''</sup> 21:27, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
[[fi:Steven Taylor]]
:::::Yes, I think it was FirsRon and KingTurtle, and maybe some others. They are to be commended for giving this guy every chance. He let them down. It happens sometimes. [[User:Baseball Bugs|Baseball Bugs]] <sup>''[[User talk:Baseball Bugs|What's up, Doc?]]''</sup> 22:15, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
[[sv:Steven Taylor]]

[[zh:斯蒂芬·泰勒]]
[[User:Rollosmokes]] looks to be back, this time as [[special:contributions/Black Waves|User:Black Waves]]. I've moved the issue back to [[WP:ANI]]. --[[Special:Contributions/66.102.80.212|66.102.80.212]] ([[User talk:66.102.80.212|talk]]) 22:09, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
:BB, is you ''naked''? [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 22:18, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

== sockpuppets ==

AlasdairGreen27 and his compliants are sockpuppets! PIO is a regular editor because his Italian persecutor [[user:Snowolf]] is retired! I am not from Milan, I am not PIO and I add links under wiki rules: if you don't like my IPs then can you add links interlanguages in related articles! Open your eyes! 17 July 2008 <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/151.67.87.9|151.67.87.9]] ([[User talk:151.67.87.9|talk]]) 07:06, 17 July 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

==review of your block at ani==
(moved to archive - Abtract, etc.)

== CSCWEM ==

Since you filed the RfAr, I thought you might be interesting in chiming in here: [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard#User:Can't sleep, clown will eat me]]. –<font face="Verdana">[[User:Xenocidic|<font color="black">'''xeno'''</font>]] ([[User talk:Xenocidic|<font color="black">talk</font>]])</font> 12:37, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
:Looks I was typing to you as you were typing to it. –<font face="Verdana">[[User:Xenocidic|<font color="black">'''xeno'''</font>]] ([[User talk:Xenocidic|<font color="black">talk</font>]])</font> 12:38, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
::Indeed - I edit conflicted twice while posting there. Cheers. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 12:40, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

== [[User talk:Bart Versieck]]... ==

...is asking for you to review the block. I've made my opinions known there. –<font face="Verdana">[[User:Xenocidic|<font color="black">'''xeno'''</font>]] ([[User talk:Xenocidic|<font color="black">talk</font>]])</font> 16:18, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
:I've responded there to the unblock request. I think I have steered a middle course; I doubt if anyone is going to like it much. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 19:13, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
===and again===
your presence is requested, at the usual venue. –<font face="Verdana">[[User:Xenocidic|<font color="black">'''xeno'''</font>]] ([[User talk:Xenocidic|<font color="black">talk</font>]])</font> 20:24, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
:Done. Hopefully the ''peeved'' factor was not apparent until, possibly, right at the end. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 21:13, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
::I wanted to apologize to you personally, as Bart's mentor, for having blocked him the first time as, you are correct, I should have brought the continued incivility to you first rather than submitting the block myself; it was an error in judgment and I will be sure not to make the same mistake again, particularly since his talk page will now be thoroughly watched by non-involved admins. I would guess, from the reason that Ryan protected the talk page, that he's a little more than peeved himself. Cheers, [[User:Canadian Paul|CP]] 22:51, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Did we ever decide whether or not he was allowed to reorganize talk pages? Because he's [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Celine_Dion&diff=prev&oldid=229397641 done it again]. I have not brought this up with Bart yet because I am unclear if it is a violation or not and don't wish to continually disturb everyone by constantly posting minor things on his talk page. Cheers, [[User:Canadian Paul|CP]] 15:50, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
:From the comments by [[User:Ryan Postlethwaite]] - an advantage of being British is that I don't need to check the spelling of that username... - recently on Barts talkpage it seems that he can. I think perhaps taking a chill pill and only reacting when he seriously steps out of line (if he does, per AGF) would be the best for both of us. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 16:03, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
::Sounds good. Cheers, [[User:Canadian Paul|CP]] 16:24, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

it is minor, but it is more then just moving stuff around. why would someone edit a [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Surviving_veterans_of_World_War_I&diff=next&oldid=232065943 time stamp], i don't get it. [[User:Boneyard|Boneyard]] ([[User talk:Boneyard|talk]]) 10:43, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

:Well, I can explain this as well: "Captain Celery" at first forgot to sign and only did so a minute later on, hence. [[User:Bart Versieck|Extremely sexy]] ([[User talk:Bart Versieck|talk]]) 11:38, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
::But is it important? No. Is it aggravating? Sometimes, for some people. Why do you insist on doing it? Dunno, it isn't as if you need the talkpage edit credits... [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 20:23, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
:::Your guess is as good as mine actually. [[User:Bart Versieck|Extremely sexy]] ([[User talk:Bart Versieck|talk]]) 20:55, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

===Yet Again===
This time far more serious than refactoring talk pages - he has now taken up posting comments from the indefinitely blocked [[User:Ryoung122]], despite a warning and agreement not to. Until he (Young) is unblocked, I believe that [[Wikipedia:BAN#Editing on behalf of banned users|this]] applies to that. Cheers, [[User:Canadian Paul|CP]] 20:04, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
:As I already pointed out on my own talk page, first of all Robert Young isn't mentioned at all, and secondly, it's proof referring to Laurent Toussaint investigating [[Pierre Picault]]. [[User:Bart Versieck|Extremely sexy]] ([[User talk:Bart Versieck|talk]]) 20:12, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
:It was my understanding that, until he is unblocked, that his indef. block amounts to a ban. The Canada Jack reference that Bart is making can be referenced [[User talk:IronDuke#CP and Canada Jack|here]], where my assertion seems to be supported. I do, however, agree that more review from different people would be prudent. Cheers, [[User:Canadian Paul|CP]] 20:20, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
::I was referring to a dispute between Canadians. [[User:Bart Versieck|Extremely sexy]] ([[User talk:Bart Versieck|talk]]) 20:37, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
:::That seems awfully complicated for a borderline infraction. I'm sure that Bart understands now that it's not to be done. If it continues to happen, I will go for what you say. Until then, we'll let something slide for him (for the 100th time). Cheers, [[User:Canadian Paul|CP]] 20:39, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
::::It won't happen again. [[User:Bart Versieck|Extremely sexy]] ([[User talk:Bart Versieck|talk]]) 20:42, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
:::::Yes, I do think it is a very important option and probably a question that needs answering. A good faith assumption and Bart's message that it won't happen again is enough for me. What I might do, however, is get a discussion going on the policy page for some community input (without mentioning any names of course), as it would be nice to have some definitive consensus, even if it's from a non-admin point of view. I have a few real life tasks to attend to at the moment, but I'll let both you and Bart know when I start the discussion if you'd like some input. To clarify, by the way, I mean input on the question of whether or not the policy I pointed out applies to indef. blocked users as well. Could be an important distinction! Cheers, [[User:Canadian Paul|CP]] 20:51, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
::::::Looking forward to it. [[User:Bart Versieck|Extremely sexy]] ([[User talk:Bart Versieck|talk]]) 11:36, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

== Re: Re Abtract ==

(moved to archive)

==your concerns==
the user in question was blocked over [[WP:DISRUPT]], not because they were in a "content dispute". See the reply on my talkpage. [[User:Dbachmann|dab]] <small>[[User_talk:Dbachmann|(𒁳)]]</small> 16:35, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

==Unblock of boy2boy==

Hey there. I don't know if you care or not, but I wanted to let you know that while I maintain my reasons for the block, I have no problems with your unblocking, especially in the manner you did so. Just FYI. [[User:Tanthalas39|<font color="#CC7722" face="Papyrus">'''Tan'''</font>]] {{IPA|&#448;}} [[User talk:Tanthalas39|<font color="#21421E" face="Papyrus">39</font>]] 21:25, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

:Well if anybody was going to unblock, I'm glad it was someone I trust. And your response (20:55, 20 July) to my comment made me a bit less concerned. That simple Google search I did showed "Boy2Boy" is more specific a phrase than just "Boy" and it bothers me where, say, "User:Boy4GayPride" wouldn't. "Boy2Boy" seems to be about "cruising", "hooking up", call it what you will. That's still pretty offensive, it seems to me. Is there a more innocuous definition that's used more often? I'm going to think about challenging it at [[WP:UAA]]. If I do, I'll leave a note here for you. Whether procedure was followed correctly or not in the block isn't the kind of thing I know anything about, although I've been supportive of the idea of giving people warnings in the past.

:I just sent you an email. These (really horrible pics) illustrate it (sorry, indulge me):

:[[:Image:NewCanaanCTHighSchEntrance07252007.JPG]]

:[[:Image:NorwalkCTFormerPoliceHQ09032007.JPG]]

:Since you've unblocked, I hope you'll monitor B2B's future edits, including the sourcing.

:Regards, [[User:Noroton|Noroton]] ([[User talk:Noroton|talk]]) 02:03, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

::It remains to be seen whether Boy2boy resumes editing. Sometimes a posthumous reduction of sentence to 20 years less time "served" while dead is a hollow judgement... but WP is not life and death. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 11:55, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

==Mess at [[United Arab Emirates]] - how fixed?==
Could you spare the time to give me a very brief idea of how you fixed the vandalism at [[United Arab Emirates]] a short time ago, and how it had been perpetrated? It appeared to be transcluded and template based, and I'd got the idea it might have been done via the hatnote, but you'd sorted it and restored the hatnote before I was able to track down the offending edit, and I just can't work out what you did. I do a fair bit of anti-vandal work and I'm trying to improve my understanding of the more subtle stuff. A response here is fine. Thanks for any help. <strong>[[User:Karenjc|<font color="red">Ka</font>]][[User_talk:Karenjc|renjc]]</strong> 13:30, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
:Thanks for the reply and for the link to the instructions, which helped a lot. I've checked through the edit histories of the templates transcluded to [[United Arab Emirates]] and found a couple which were vandalised by this particular user in the past day or so, using two IP addresses (both already blocked). Seems like if you bring up an edit history as your instructions say, find the list of transcluded templates and then visit the ones not marked "protected" or "semiprotected" in turn, checking their history for recent IP edits, you can find the source of the trouble fairly fast. If no joy, try the semiprotected templates and look for suspicious user edits. Revert, arrange page protection, and purge.

:For what it's worth, I think you're right that the trouble had been fixed and your actions purged the page cache. The guilty template seems to have been [[Template:Wikia]] or [[Template:Monarchies]]. I feel a lot more clued up now. Thanks again for your time. <strong>[[User:Karenjc|<font color="red">Ka</font>]][[User_talk:Karenjc|renjc]]</strong> 15:29, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

== Carol Spears Ban ==

Do I have to make a formal proposal or something? Is AN/I the place for proposing and discussing community bans? --[[User:Blechnic|Blechnic]] ([[User talk:Blechnic|talk]]) 14:54, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
:Heck, I just flung it up on AN/I.[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Proposed_community_ban_of_User:CarolSpears] It's time for everyone to stop wasting time with this woman and get back to writing an encyclopedia and cleaning up her mess. --[[User:Blechnic|Blechnic]] ([[User talk:Blechnic|talk]]) 17:50, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

== Quickies ==

Yes, I did. Wikipedia user talk pages are not on-line private chat forums for people to kid around and post personal attacks. Everyone is so gung ho on chatting with her, let them find a place to do it, not Wikipedia. Indeed it's time to be done with her, and no one else is bothering to get it over with. She had nothing to say in her articles, that's why she made stuff up. She has nothing to say worth affording her space for on her user talk page, either. --[[User:Blechnic|Blechnic]] ([[User talk:Blechnic|talk]]) 20:48, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
:For future reference, I am overly fond of absurdist literature. --[[User:Blechnic|Blechnic]] ([[User talk:Blechnic|talk]]) 20:55, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

== [[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/SlimVirgin-Lar]] ==

A [[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration|request for arbitration]] which you commented on has been opened, and is located '''[[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/SlimVirgin-Lar|here]]'''. Any evidence you wish to provide should be emailed directly to any sitting Arbitrator for circulation among the rest of the committee. Please submit your evidence within one week, if possible. On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, [[User:Ryan Postlethwaite|'''<font color="#000088">Ry<font color="#220066">an<font color="#550044"> P<font color="#770022">os<font color="#aa0000">tl</font>et</font>hw</font>ai</font>te</font>''']] 14:34, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

== Furry Dance ==

Hello, can you please expand on your edit comment about the Hal an Tow. What are you thinking? Thanks. [[User:FootballPhil|FootballPhil]] ([[User talk:FootballPhil|talk]]) 13:06, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

== RFA Thanks ==

{| style="border: 1px solid {{{border|green}}}; background-color: {{{color|#98FB98}}};"
|rowspan="2" |{{clear}}
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''Thank you for participating in my RfA, LessHeard vanU!'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;"| I am grateful for your confidence: [[Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Okiefromokla|My RfA]] passed by a count of 64/3/3, so I am now an administrator! Of course, I plan to conduct my adminship in service of the community, so I believe the community has a right to revoke that privilege at any time. Thus, I will be [[Wikipedia:Administrators open to recall|open for recall]] under reasonable circumstances. If you have any advice, complaints, or concerns for me, please [[User talk:Okiefromokla|let me know]]. Again, Thanks! [[User:Okiefromokla|Okiefromokla]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Okiefromokla|questions?]]</sup></small> 21:08, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
|}

Quite a monster. Quite. :) [[User:Okiefromokla|Okiefromokla]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Okiefromokla|questions?]]</sup></small> 22:07, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

== My value system ==

[[Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Personal_attack_by_User:Starstyler|In case you've forgotten here is where you made comments against me]]

I gave it a couple of hours and then went back to reread your comments towards me. They were inappropriate, lacking faith, and insulting. No, they aren't against [[WP:Civil]] in my opinion, but they are completely [[WP:Dick|dickardly]].

{{trout}}

[[User:Beamathan|Beam]] 00:01, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

:Your inability to understand that other peoples perception of what constitutes an insult, where their cultural and ethnic background is dissimilar to that of yours, is entirely your own affair - and if you are so insensitive to others pointing out that an opinion based entirely on your individual perceptions based on limited personal experience is unworthy of being disseminated on a forum that is frequented by English speaking peoples of a wide variety of cultures and nations, then you may be best advised not to frequent the place at all.
:There will be no apology, since I am prepared to stand behind my comments. An insult is that which ferments discontent and alarm upon the recipient, and is not the arbitrary consideration of a third party who may not be familiar with the term, its history and the perception of it to other people. Your "morality" where ''[[nigger]]'' and ''[[kyke]]'', etc, are considered abusive, but not that of ''"red headed"'' (which I didn't know was a term of abuse, until today, for Indonesian people), is inappropriate within a website that has an international editorship, and placing a value system which determines that your impression of insult is somehow more relevant to that of the insulted individual is more than just contrary to the precepts in the countering of racism - it embraces it (although I am certain that it is through ignorance than bad faith.)
:Lastly, do not again question my antipathy toward racism or any type of phobia based on culture, faith (or lack of), lifestyle, gender, sexuality, or whatever. It is not something that I am generally prepared to be civil about which, under the circumstances, I am endeavouring to be in this matter. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 00:24, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Congratulations, you missed the point, didn't understand what I had said in that thread or said here. And your "lastly" is so out of place, it's actually strange. Maybe you want to go read that thread again. Than read my comment here. Than maybe strike out half of what you just said. Just a suggestion. [[User:Beamathan|Beam]] 04:33, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

== You have mail ==

And, lucky you, it's from me! [[User:Risker|Risker]] ([[User talk:Risker|talk]]) 07:45, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
:What, is Lar hiding or something..? [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 08:45, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

== RfA Thanks ==
<div class="NavFrame" style="border-style: none; padding: 0px; ">
<div class="NavFrame" style="border-style: solid ; text-align: left; border: blue solid 1px; -moz-border-radius: 10px; background: blue; padding: 5x;">
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<tr><td><div style="padding: 3px; text-align: center; font-size: 150%;">[[Image:Atlanta parking garage settled particulates.jpg|left|200px]]Thank you for participating in [[Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Steven Fruitsmaak|my RfA]], wich was successful with ''73 support''', '''6 oppose'', and ''5 neutral''. I'll try to be as clear as I can in my communication and to clear some of the admin backlog on images. If there is anything I can help you with, don't hesitate to ask me on my talk page!

Cheers, --[[User:Stevenfruitsmaak|Steven Fruitsmaak]] <small>([[User_talk:Stevenfruitsmaak|Reply]])</small> 14:30, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
</td></tr>
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== comment on block ==

Hi, you blocked a user FResearcher recently, and I [https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/User_talk:FResearcher#Indefinitely_blocked commented] on the block. Would appreciate your reply. Thanks. [[User:Lakinekaki|Lakinekaki]] ([[User talk:Lakinekaki|talk]]) 22:54, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
:Will respond there. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 12:26, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

==[[Heather Mills]]==
Oh, how I loathed the idea of doing it, but I've gone and done it (182 refs 'n-all.) The problem is that I'm getting the feeling that user [[User:Nandesuka|Nandesuka]] is trying to start a fight. I put this down to the fact that I was instrumental in getting [[Jeremy Clarkson]] booted off GA status a while ago (his contributions show that the article is #1 on his list.) I mentioned this, but he fobbed it off by saying he contributes to lots of articles. I think he's trying to goad me, but I'm not biting. Can you have a look and tell me if I'm talking a load of shite or not? I'll have to wait a bit for "that bloody woman" to get a review, so I'm relishing it very much. Ta, very much,

:It's calmed down a bit, funnily enough. Although you never know... :)--[[User:Andreasegde|andreasegde]] ([[User talk:Andreasegde|talk]]) 13:09, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

== Beatleing about ==

Hi, thought you might be interested in this new article by a new editor [[Phillips sound recording services]], It was speedied once (under different capitalization), I have done a quick wikify on it, but it would benefit from someone with a bit more knowledge of the Liverpool music scene of the era than me having a look at it. Best wishes, [[User:DuncanHill|DuncanHill]] ([[User talk:DuncanHill|talk]]) 15:38, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

== Just wondering.... ==

you're pretty familiar at this point with my complaints about [[User:Dwain]]. For somebody who wants to be "left alone" he's going out of his way to get in the middle of things. He has had in the past a bad habit of stashing pages and information in his user and talk page revisions (which was part of my initial complaint).

I'm going to be brief, but I need to outline a bit to indicate why I think there's a problem: I was doing a cleanup of some of the Cat Freemasonry pages for accuracy, etc., and as I was doublechecking the Anti-Masonry cat, I found [[John Salza]]. I looked at his article, and he claims to be a Mason and is on the List page, but the only source is what Salza says on his own webpage. I made a note of this on the List talk (because his claims are odd and records exist even if he quit), and Blueboar decided to prod it as nn. This all well and good, but then I find [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Dwain&diff=prev&oldid=229229584 this diff] followed by [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Dwain&curid=2948858&diff=229229681&oldid=229229584 this diff], where Dwain has cut and pasted the Salza article into his talk and then undid the revision to hide it.

This is exactly the behavior I noted in my recent complaint and in the past. My concern is this: what possible reason could he have to do this if he has no agenda and "wants to be left alone," as he claims? This strikes me as either going out of his way for no apparent reason, or keeping an eye on things that he claims he isn't. He's toeing the line here and I'm pretty sure he knows it. Is there a policy governing what I see as misuse of talk? [[User:MSJapan|MSJapan]] ([[User talk:MSJapan|talk]]) 17:22, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
:<!-- For reference; [[Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive447#Dwain]] -->Replied on your talkpage. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 19:01, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
::I'm keeping an eye on it, and having looked further into it, he started the article, but again, despite wanting to be "left alone", he's creating and maintaining articles on Catholic anti-Masons? As per the AfD, I'd also note that I'm getting a little tired of JASpencer's inflammatory statements. His anti-POV is blatant, though he tries to pretend he's neutral and that the rest of us are whitewashing. [[User:MSJapan|MSJapan]] ([[User talk:MSJapan|talk]]) 06:18, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

== Siouxsie and the banshees editorial problem==
Hello, I invite you to sort out a recently problem encountered on the [[Siouxsie and the Banshees]]. Here it is. On wikipedia, I remark that there's the following consensus : on a page about a band, one doesn't publish a picture when only the singer appears on it with no other band member on his/her sides. I read many bands pages and that's always the case on wikipedia. Here are the instances I took, the band pages about [[The Cure]], [[The Smiths]], [[Joy Division]], [[killing Joke]], etc. So, I guess, it's better that pictures that only show the singer of a band, are not selected on a band page. Yet, recently, people who contributed nothing on the 'siouxsie and the banshes' page, like a user called JD554, threatened me on my user page from edit blocking, plus he posted a weird comment on the history SATB page as if he had one thing against my old contributions. I know that this person was in the past the only one user on [[The cure]] page who took defence of user wesleydodds on may 17 th 2008 for a editorial content. So, I wouldn't state that wesley dodds and JD554 are friends or the same user but it seems strange that JD554 arrives on SATB page where as he wrote nothing on that page???. Two other users who also contributed nothing on "Siouxsie and the banshees" page wrote that they wanted this pic. I explained my point about why I thought this pic was not goog for the SATB page : you'll find my answers at the history SATB page. Thanks to let me know how to resolve this. [[User:Carliertwo|carliertwo]] ([[User talk:Carliertwo|Carliertwo]]) 05:09, 1 august 2008 (UTC)
:I will look over this this evening (my time). [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 15:09, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

==Hello==
I might have a potential move-vandalism and general vandalism problem. [[Special:Contributions/BeerBelly82|BeerBelly82]], [[Special:Contributions/TitleRanch903|TitleRanch903]], and [[Special:Contributions/BuffaloSam|BuffaloSam]]. The latter of the three left Wikipedia in December of 07 and came back yesterday. The others appear to be new accounts.

BeerBelly82 [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Johnstown/Altoona/State_College_TV&diff=prev&oldid=228214792 moved] the Johnstown/Altoona Television Market template to [[:Template:Johnstown/Altoona/State College TV]], though I can find nothing to show "State College" is part of the official Nielsen "name" for that market. All of the pages that linked to the old template were then changed. TitleRanch903 appears to be following in this changing of old templates.

BuffaloSam has moved [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Middlesex-Somerset-Union_Radio&diff=prev&oldid=229407299 two] [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Monmouth-Ocean_Radio&diff=prev&oldid=229407177 radio] market templates to "names" that don't appear to match the official Arbitron "name". This user also changed all of the pages that linked to the old template.

To me, this seems like move-vandalism and general vandalism. I could be wrong, but as [[User:Kubigula|Kubigula]] and [[User:Firsfron|Firsfron]] are out, I bring it to your attention. Thanks...[[User:Neutralhomer|<font color="#0000C8">NeutralHomer</font>]] <span style="font-size: 0.8em;"><sup>[[User Talk:Neutralhomer|T]]:[[Special:Contributions/Neutralhomer|C]]</sup></span> 23:35, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
:Hello, this has been sorted out by another admin. Take Care...[[User:Neutralhomer|<font color="#0000C8">NeutralHomer</font>]] <span style="font-size: 0.8em;"><sup>[[User Talk:Neutralhomer|T]]:[[Special:Contributions/Neutralhomer|C]]</sup></span> 05:00, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
::Cool. I don't know what time it was for you when you posted, but it was gone midnight here in Blighty when you posted... Thanks for the reference, anyhow. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 08:39, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
:::It was 7:35pm when I posted :) All turned out well. Take Care and Have a Great Sunday...[[User:Neutralhomer|<font color="#0000C8">NeutralHomer</font>]] <span style="font-size: 0.8em;"><sup>[[User Talk:Neutralhomer|T]]:[[Special:Contributions/Neutralhomer|C]]</sup></span> 15:29, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

==RfA thanks==
{| class="messagebox standard-talk" style="border: 5px solid #0050b2; background-color: #2486ff;"
|align="left"|[[Image:Admin mop.PNG|60px]]
|align="center"|Thank you for participating in [[Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Cyclonenim 2|my RfA]], which did not succeed with '''30 in support''', '''28 in opposition''' and '''6 neutral votes'''. Thanks again for the support! <!-- this thank-you created with Template:RfA-thanks -->
|}


—<font face="Trebuchet MS" size="2px">'''[[User:Cyclonenim|''CycloneNimrod'']]'''</font><sup><font face="Trebuchet MS" size="1">[[User_talk:Cyclonenim|Talk?]]</font></sup> 15:43, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

== Re:ANI ==

Well, your effort is coming back like this.[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Caspian_blue&diff=prev&oldid=229597043] from {{User|Carl Daniels}}. More information would be here.[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AAdministrators'_noticeboard&diff=229598501&oldid=229595604]--[[User:Caspian blue|Caspian blue]] ([[User talk:Caspian blue|talk]]) 15:58, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
:Sorry to bother you again, however, I receive the same complaint from another user, {{User|Btzkillerv}} like this.[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Caspian_blue&curid=17896649&diff=229649092&oldid=229599547]. I'm so curious as to how the bashing comment from indef.blocked user would meet a freedom of speech. Well, the user certainly received Lucy's comment because of [[Wikipedia:Requests_for_checkuser/Case/RestoreTheEmpireSociety|this]]. Given the comments like racist attacks by the user,[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Btzkillerv&diff=prev&oldid=219316790][http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AOyo321&diff=218750429&oldid=213852534][http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Yuje&diff=prev&oldid=213647446][http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:58.186.231.93&diff=prev&oldid=219316347][http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:203.162.36.50&diff=prev&oldid=219316174], I would not wonder why Btzkiller highly thinks of "freedom of speech". Can you take a look at these? Thanks.--[[User:Caspian blue|Caspian blue]] ([[User talk:Caspian blue|talk]]) 21:31, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
::I have commented regarding the removal of personal attacks from peoples talkpages (whether they like it or not) at Btzkillers talkpage. I agree that the last two examples you gave are inappropriate (the rest seem to be from different accounts - but no less appropriate) but I am not looking to be handing out blocks tonight. It is late evening in the UK and I am retiring for the night, so please try to stay out of fights and if you ''do'' need admin assistance while I'm offline it will have to be someone else. Cheers. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 22:00, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
:::Thank you very much. I hope they understand your instruction. --[[User:Caspian blue|Caspian blue]] ([[User talk:Caspian blue|talk]]) 22:22, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

== Unblock request for your review ==

[[User_talk:Arataman_79#responding_to_the_issue]] is requesting an unblock - it seems he's willing to communicate with other editors now. Since you blocked him, I defer to your judgement. [[User:Hersfold|'''''<em style="font-family:Bradley Hand ITC;color:blue">Hers</em><em style="font-family:Bradley Hand ITC;color:gold">fold</em>''''']] <sup>([[User:Hersfold/t|t]]/[[User:Hersfold/a|a]]/[[Special:Contributions/Hersfold|c]])</sup> 21:57, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

:As I just commented on the editor's talkpage, I think it would be unwise to unblock until there's actually a '''''discussion''''', i.e. a response to another editor's comment. So far, there's been no response to my 4-hour old comment, although it could, obviously, just be the wrong time wherever Arataman 79 is. [[User:Ed Fitzgerald|'''Ed Fitzgerald''' (unfutz)]] <b><small><sup>([[User talk:Ed Fitzgerald|talk]] / [[Special:Contributions/Ed Fitzgerald|cont]])</sup></small></b> 22:16, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

==Circumcision==
Do I care about what you think? No. [[User:Signsolid|Signsolid]] ([[User talk:Signsolid|talk]]) 22:50, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

== We're friends ==
Seeing that we're friends I'm just stopping by to say, "hello." Unless of course you were trying to be insulting when you refered to me as a "mutual friend." As an administrator it doesn't become you to take sides against an editor behind his back. [[User:Dwain|Dwain]] ([[User talk:Dwain|talk]]) 19:33, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
:I don't think that I have interacted with, or about, you for some weeks... although I have just used that exact phrase regarding another editor. Tell me, are those socks you are wearing with the Jesus sandals? [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 19:38, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
::Hmm, August 1st is "some weeks" away. Wow! Have a good one friend. [[User:Dwain|Dwain]] ([[User talk:Dwain|talk]])

== WW, AbD and WP:AN ==

Thanks for trying o help. Nonetheless, Abd's "campaign", as you put it has come to him ignoring my attempts at being helpful and dissolved into his questioning my neutrality. I really can't cope with repeating myself to defend myself at the moment (too much real life stress to have online stress as well) so I'm leaving the project, albeit hopefully temporarily. Assuming this comes up while I'm "away", I hope you can point out why I'm not commenting. Best wishes [[User:Fritzpoll|Fritzpoll]] ([[User talk:Fritzpoll|talk]]) 11:19, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

== hello ==

can you help me out with more info about editing bots? i want to know how they work, thanks


ps: i think we need a special testing and construction area for new templates, tools and infoboxes.

cheers

[[User:Btzkillerv|Btzkillerv]] ([[User talk:Btzkillerv|talk]]) 16:27, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

==[[User:Tq6993]]==

I actually hadn't looked to see what happened regarding this, figured it would take longer than that. Thank you for letting me know though, hopefully they will learn from the block and not resume their blanking. Although in the case they do resume, I will follow your instructions. I'm still a pretty new editor, and I always try and assume good faith. Sometimes though I just get the feeling that certain editors aren't here to build an encyclopedia. The whole always assume good faith is rather difficult at times. Have a good day, [[User:Landon1980|Landon1980]] ([[User talk:Landon1980|talk]]) 14:49, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

==Time for unprotection?==
[[Gary Weiss]]. It's been protected for a few months. It doesn't appear there was any edit war or active dispute. Do you suppose it could be dropped to semi? [[User:Cool Hand Luke|Cool Hand]] ''[[User talk:Cool Hand Luke|Luke]]'' 01:13, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

:I don't think this is a good time to lift protection of any of the articles in what I describe as the 'NSS Syndrome.' This one is the subject of a dispute that actually appears to be unresolved, concerning controversial material targeting Wikipedia specifically.--[[User:Janeyryan|Janeyryan]] ([[User talk:Janeyryan|talk]]) 12:33, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
::I have linked your comments to CHL's talkpage, and perhaps you and him could discuss the best way forward? I would note that CHL is suggesting semi-protection rather than none. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 12:45, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
:::Thank you, Less. Perhaps the issue can be revisited once this Register furor dies down. --[[User:Janeyryan|Janeyryan]] ([[User talk:Janeyryan|talk]]) 12:56, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
::::For what it's worth, I think semi-protection is more appropriate than full protection. By the way, I don't plan to edit the actual article for various reasons although I may comment on the talk page. [[User:Cla68|Cla68]] ([[User talk:Cla68|talk]]) 00:52, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. While I technically have the bit to unprotect, but I'm not an uninterested party. I will be editing the article, so I don't think it's appropriate for me to change it. I don't plan to add the recent ''Reg'' story though, and I actually agree with Janeyryan that it should be excluded from this BLP. It's not urgent, so I'm happy with leaving it be for a few more weeks. It would be a different matter if NSS were still protected. A lot of news has affected that subject, but it's appropriately on semi. I'll raise it on the talk page next time before asking you. [[User:Cool Hand Luke|Cool Hand]] ''[[User talk:Cool Hand Luke|Luke]]'' 01:20, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
:I've opened the discussion on the article talkpage, so that hopefully more opinions can be gathered. I (a little late) recall that the talkpage is also protected, so that may have to be lifted to allow full participation in the debate. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 12:27, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

== Blocks ==

I concur. I just wanted to wait to see if they might edit again. I was considering protecting BoogaLouie's page, but it slipped my mind momentarily. '''''[[User:Bibliomaniac15|<font color="black">bibliomaniac</font>]][[User talk:Bibliomaniac15|<font color="red">1</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Bibliomaniac15|<font color="blue">5</font>]]''''' 23:13, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

==Hello==

"01:22, 17 August 2008 LessHeard vanU (Talk | contribs) (14,097 bytes) (→Copyright Infringement silly billy"

Was that aimed at me? While a minor personal attack, it's not very civil to make belittling comments towards me. I wouldn't do the same to you. I hope you have a great day. Regards, Dean.--[[User:Manboobies|Manboobies]] ([[User talk:Manboobies|talk]]) 01:51, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

==Your comments on my talk page==
My talk page is currently semi-protected, so, as my account is too new to edit semi-protected pages, I can't reply there :( Anyway, I've been editing for about a year as an IP, and just recently created an account. While I thank you for your concern about my userpage, I'll be fine :) [[User:Kristen Eriksen|Kristen Eriksen]] ([[User talk:Kristen Eriksen|talk]]) 20:58, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

==blog source on [[Tucker Max]](from the ANI)==
i still haven't seen any compelling reason as to why it's appropriate for this blog to be included into the article and edit warred over its inclusion. the original source is allegedly a college newspaper that doesn't appear to have a website or any archives available, but the source currently is just a blog which claims to be a reposting from a school paper. as an encyclopedia, i don't see how this blog passes as a reliable source, warrants much discussion, or edit warring over its inclusion. there is no guarantee that this is a faithful and accurate reposting of the original on the blog. since content wise, it's a pointless source, which adds nothing to the article, and comes from a blog, i really don't see why this should still be included. could you please let me know if you think it should be included still? i am willing to listen to an outsider's opinion. [[User:Theserialcomma|Theserialcomma]] ([[User talk:Theserialcomma|talk]]) 03:41, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

== Just so you know ==

LHvU, I'm losing it. As Bart's mentoring admin, I have to let you know that I am about one more incident away from going back to [[WP:ANI]] and building a very long and detailed case for Bart Versieck's banning. I am tired of all the disruption he partakes in, the little things just keep adding and adding up and I feel that all our efforts to turn him into a constructive editor are not getting through and that I may have to lay out the entirety of his disruption to the community to show its entirety. I already asked him [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3ABart_Versieck&diff=224423277&oldid=224315773 twice] not to pipe [[World War II]] with "Second World War" when it serves no purpose. Maybe it's not that big of a deal, but you can only [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3ABart_Versieck&diff=224537355&oldid=224464116 claim ignorance] and then [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=John_Babcock&diff=232771596&oldid=232704710 do the same thing again] so many times. It's chronic with him. Say he understands, say he won't do something, then do it again and again and again because there are no consequences. Maybe you can explain to him the gravity of the situation, but one more anything, even so much as a tiny change to someone's talk page comments, and this is going to the community and a case will be made to ban. I have lost all patience with this. Cheers, [[User:Canadian Paul|CP]] 23:37, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
:This is very strange. [[User:Bart Versieck|Extremely sexy]] ([[User talk:Bart Versieck|talk]]) 01:14, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
::Sage and sound advice LHvU. That does seem to be the better way. I still hold a bit of hope that this expression of frustration will be my last though... thank you. Cheers, [[User:Canadian Paul|CP]] 16:05, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"
|rowspan="2" valign="middle" | [[Image:Barnstar_of_Diligence.png|100px]]
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Barnstar of Diligence'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | I am always terrible at choosing the right barnstar, but your sage adminship and infinite patience deserve recognition! Cheers, [[User:Canadian Paul|CP]] 16:05, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
|}
:::Yes: just keep up the good work. [[User:Bart Versieck|Extremely sexy]] ([[User talk:Bart Versieck|talk]]) 16:53, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

As you can see from the comments on Bart's talk page, I feel that he has abandoned the notion that he should not be editing other's comments for any reason. As stated above, I have prepared a report on his behavior since the 3 month block was lifted and I am coming here to ask you, as his mentor, where you would like/feel is most appropriate to post it. It does not, as per your suggestion, recommend any particular course of action, if that helps in your decision-making. Cheers, [[User:Canadian Paul|CP]] 01:00, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
:As I wrote on my own talkpage, I only reverted something. [[User:Bart Versieck|Extremely sexy]] ([[User talk:Bart Versieck|talk]]) 11:22, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
*Sorry, I had missed this in all the other stuff that has been happening on this page. I will look at it drekly. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 11:32, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
**I am allowed to revert stuff on talkpages, especially of articles. [[User:Bart Versieck|Extremely sexy]] ([[User talk:Bart Versieck|talk]]) 14:08, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
***Hey LHvU - I just had a big Graduate Student Assembly event to run yesterday, along with my usual homework load, and Thursdays are my incredibly busy days, so I've just gotten back to editing now. Thank you for your concern. I am, however, still looking for your advice on where to post my report. Cheers, [[User:Canadian Paul|CP]] 01:15, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
****Hey LHvu, here is the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#Report_on_User:Bart_Versieck report]. I will go notify everyone that I promised to in the report immediately. Cheers, [[User:Canadian Paul|CP]] 17:09, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
*****Not to be found. [[User:Bart Versieck|Extremely sexy]] ([[User talk:Bart Versieck|talk]]) 13:00, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

== Kristen Eriksen ==

Could you please explain why her being of Norwegian ancestry is going to be "the cause of spontaneous combustion among a lot of teenage contributors" more than if she was of any other ancestry? Thanks.--[[User:Whatever She Sings, We Bring|Whatever She Sings, We Bring]] ([[User talk:Whatever She Sings, We Bring|talk]]) 07:43, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

==Re: blogs as a reliable source==
i took your advice and attempted to get a 3O over whether http://blogcritics.org/archives/2005/12/02/020402.php is a reliable source, but it did not work out. no one responded because it was involving more than 2 editors. an RfC would be the next move up the bureaucratic procedure list, but that seems like a totally unnecessary waste of time and effort just for someone to step in and remove the link because it's a blog and blogs are not reliable sources. the blog adds nothing substantial to the article and it's a blog to begin with. the reason i posted it to an ANI is because i knew there were 3 editors involved in the article who were going to revert my sane attempts to remove the blog, and i figured if one admin just stepped in and brought some sanity to the situation and said "no blogs in encyclopedias" the situation would be resolved. well, an admin did do that, and the tendentious editors did their job and reverted it. can you please just state your opinion on the article? whether you are for the blog's inclusion or against it, i don't want to go through an RfC for something so petty and unnecessary. there is currently an rfc on an important matter in the article and it's been almost 25 days with no response from a single outside editor. [[User:Theserialcomma|Theserialcomma]] ([[User talk:Theserialcomma|talk]]) 00:00, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
:oh, and just to give a little background on what i meant when i said there were 3 editors who will revert any sane attempts to fix the article, there was a gawker article (not a reliable source) last week specifically about the censorship on the [[Tucker Max]] article http://gawker.com/5037685/strange#viewcomments [[User:Theserialcomma|Theserialcomma]] ([[User talk:Theserialcomma|talk]]) 00:09, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

== Great ==

[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AAdministrators%27_noticeboard&diff=233630963&oldid=233630637 Amusing edit summaries] in both those edits. :D This must be my lucky week for spotting hilarity in the summaries. :) [[User:Acalamari|Acalamari]] 23:08, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
:Praise from "battered squid (singular)" is praise indeed. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 23:14, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

== why you blocking when i am fixing the pages? ==

i work on adding content to page and others are vandalizing the page and why i get blocked??[[User:Recbon|Recbon]] ([[User talk:Recbon|talk]]) 06:52, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

:Recbon has already revandalized the merged ''Dragon Ball GT'' article and the Dragon Ball talk page again. -- [[::User:Collectonian|<span style='font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color:#5342F'>Collectonian</span>]]&nbsp;([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]]&nbsp;'''·''' [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 07:07, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

== Block Question ==

As the IP admitted to be the blocked sockpuppeteer, [[User:I'm On Base]], why was the IP only [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3A72.255.51.78&diff=233834447&oldid=233833413 blocked for 31 hours]? <span style="font-family: tahoma">'''-- [[User:iMatthew|<span style="color:brown">iMa<span style="color:teal">tth<span style="color:olive">ew</span>]] <sub>[[User talk:IMatthew|T.]][[Special:Contributions/iMatthew|C.]]</sub>'''</span> 00:42, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
:Ok, thanks! <span style="font-family: tahoma">'''-- [[User:iMatthew|<span style="color:brown">iMa<span style="color:teal">tth<span style="color:olive">ew</span>]] <sub>[[User talk:IMatthew|T.]][[Special:Contributions/iMatthew|C.]]</sub>'''</span> 00:56, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

== [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&type=block&page=User%3A68.195.3.185 Your] ==

Old friend has returned. A 6 month block would be appropriate here. [[User:Utan Vax|Utan Vax]] ([[User talk:Utan Vax|talk]]) 16:23, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

:Good job! :-) [[User:Utan Vax|Utan Vax]] ([[User talk:Utan Vax|talk]]) 16:38, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

== Duncan's, etc ==

(moved to Abtract, etc. archive)

== As you've just bumped into this, it seems... ==

(moved to Freemasonry archive)

== Missing in Action ==

Your email, that is. I have a feeling there may be a technical problem with the email interface, so I've sent you an email direct so you have my addy. [[User:Risker|Risker]] ([[User talk:Risker|talk]]) 13:34, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

==block==
i change my ip address which i can do when ever i feel like and now im not blocked any more and now i can edit pages so blocking me wont work. i reset it again and i wont stop <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/58.178.156.161|58.178.156.161]] ([[User talk:58.178.156.161|talk]]) 12:04, 27 August 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Corrections ==

Regarding your entry in [http://wikipediareview.com/index.php?showtopic=20042&st=20 this WR thread]:

* "Stanley Accrington": yes, a reference to the football club, but I also had the songist [http://www.stanleyaccrington.wogan.info/ Stanley Accrington] in mind, as he first came up with the name.
* "Chumbly": a hastily spelt ''[[Galaxy Four|Doctor Who]]'' reference.
* "Skinheed": no, not ''Red Dwarf'', but a very early ''[[Viz (comic)|Viz]]'' character from back when it was an amateur publication.
* "Fordite": also known as [[Detroit agate]].

Right, I'm done. Cheers, [[Special:Contributions/212.32.97.202|212.32.97.202]] ([[User talk:212.32.97.202|talk]]) 22:55, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

:Less - just read your bit on WR, you might be wrong about inferring age from the Accrington Stanley reference - I don't remember the team, but in the mid eighties there was a popular advert over here for milk - see [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pieK7b4KLL4 you tube]. regards --[[User:Joopercoopers|Joopercoopers]] ([[User talk:Joopercoopers|talk]]) 11:23, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
::Ah, but in the 80's there was an assumption that the adult audience would "get" the AS reference - and those who were recently adults at that time are in their forties now. I also recall the Viz character, when it was much more anarcho than humorous, which again dates it to someone my age... Cheers, anyhow. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 11:34, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

::::Your age? I'm only 38. --[[Special:Contributions/212.32.81.27|212.32.81.27]] ([[User talk:212.32.81.27|talk]]) 18:48, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
:::::I don't even know if you're Frostie Jack - you might be George, for all I know. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 19:47, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
::::::Good. I would hope the CheckUsers aren't being so free with the info they have. But I would also hope that they, or their associates, aren't arranging to have pages vandalised just to catch me out. That would be bad form. [[Special:Contributions/212.32.115.83|212.32.115.83]] ([[User talk:212.32.115.83|talk]]) 21:39, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

== [[User:Onceloose]] ==

I think I may have found another [[User:Eurovisionman]] sock. I saw that you were involved before. Here's my report: [[Wikipedia:Suspected_sock_puppets/Onceloose]]. [[User:Grk1011|Grk1011/Stephen]] ([[User talk:Grk1011|talk]]) 15:30, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

== Thank you ==

I just wanted to say thank you very much for your help with [[User:Mamasaidnakuout]] and I will keep an eye out for an influx of IP accounts on the articles. [[User:Aspects|Aspects]] ([[User talk:Aspects|talk]]) 00:20, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
:Cool. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 00:21, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
::Well that did not take long. Looks like [[User:72.211.200.165]] is [[User:Mamasaidnakuout]]'s sock puppet with these two edits, [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=American_Idol_(season_2)&diff=prev&oldid=235334912] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=American_Idol_(season_4)&diff=prev&oldid=235334971]. [[User:Aspects|Aspects]] ([[User talk:Aspects|talk]]) 07:27, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

==Thanks!==
Thank you so much for blocking Royce Mathew's IP. Though I still wonder how long he's blocked, so I can brace myself should there be another attack ;) what you did was solely kind and I really appreciated. Thank you!

Ah, and here's a barnstar for your work :)

'''[[User:BlackPearl14|BlackPearl14]]''' would like to give [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] the following barnstar for helping her with preventing personal attacks :)
[[Image:Random_Acts_of_Kindness_Barnstar.png]]

Thanks! [[User:BlackPearl14|<font color="#CC5555" >BlackPearl14</font>]][[User talk:BlackPearl14|<sup><font color="#667722">Pirate Lord-ess of the Caribbean</font></sup>]] 21:19, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
:Great ;) Ah, I learned a new word! Would it be possible to protect the IP's talk page, as well as all my pages? He's been vandalising mine a ''lot.'' If this persists, should I apply for semi-protection on the Pirates of the Caribbean articles? [[User:BlackPearl14|<font color="#CC5555" >BlackPearl14</font>]][[User talk:BlackPearl14|<sup><font color="#667722">Pirate Lord-ess of the Caribbean</font></sup>]] 21:31, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
::All right, thank you ;) [[User:BlackPearl14|<font color="#CC5555" >BlackPearl14</font>]][[User talk:BlackPearl14|<sup><font color="#667722">Pirate Lord-ess of the Caribbean</font></sup>]] 21:53, 30 August 2008 (UTC)



==Creating a [[WP:Admin Noticeboard not involving Theresa Knott (or LessHeard vanU, for that matter)|red link]]==

Normally when people do [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=prev&oldid=235199751 this] I click on the link and write something funny. Unfortunately I can't this time because the title excludes me from participating, as it does you. So I'll have to resssssssiiiist! But I did want to say that I loved your edit summary for this one :-) [[User:Theresa knott|Theresa Knott]] | [[User talk:Theresa knott|The otter sank]] 22:35, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
:Cool. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 22:37, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

== Block ==

Did you seriously only block the user for 15 mintues?! Like that is going to do any good. <font face="papyrus">[[User:Ctjf83|'''<font color="#ff0000">C</font><font color="#ff6600">t</font><font color="#ffff00">j</font><font color="#009900">f</font><font color="#0000ff">8</font><font color="#6600cc">3</font>''']][[User Talk:Ctjf83|Talk]]</font> 22:54, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
:"I meant it to be for 15 minutes and 30 seconds"...is that suppose to be some smartass comment or what? If so, it is not appreciated or funny. 15 minutes and 30 seconds is a ridiculously short block and won't solve anything. I shouldn't have to be harassed by a new user, who is complaining because he isn't getting his way, on his own comments being removed, because he no longer likes them. I told him several times to stop, and he continued. In the future, I won't come back to you if he continues, I will go to an admin who will block for a appropriate amount of time.<font face="papyrus">[[User:Ctjf83|'''<font color="#ff0000">C</font><font color="#ff6600">t</font><font color="#ffff00">j</font><font color="#009900">f</font><font color="#0000ff">8</font><font color="#6600cc">3</font>''']][[User Talk:Ctjf83|Talk]]</font> 23:13, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
::I can solve the problem, but you are not going to like it! Remove his comments from your talk page. Problem solved. [[User:Theresa knott|Theresa Knott]] | [[User talk:Theresa knott|The otter sank]] 23:27, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
::: Ya, block me for what, not pleasing a user, by giving him his way...ya, ok. <font face="papyrus">[[User:Ctjf83|'''<font color="#ff0000">C</font><font color="#ff6600">t</font><font color="#ffff00">j</font><font color="#009900">f</font><font color="#0000ff">8</font><font color="#6600cc">3</font>''']][[User Talk:Ctjf83|Talk]]</font> 23:59, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
::: And Theresa, I'm not going to delete comments, because some user doesn't want it shown that he is ridiculous in his comments. <font face="papyrus">[[User:Ctjf83|'''<font color="#ff0000">C</font><font color="#ff6600">t</font><font color="#ffff00">j</font><font color="#009900">f</font><font color="#0000ff">8</font><font color="#6600cc">3</font>''']][[User Talk:Ctjf83|Talk]]</font> 00:07, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
::::Why not? [[User:Theresa knott|Theresa Knott]] | [[User talk:Theresa knott|The otter sank]] 00:43, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

==72.91.214.42 block==

Thanks for blocking this one. The [[Talk:Sarah Palin]] page is under seige from spammers at the moment and we need to get things under control. [[User:Wellspring|Wellspring]] ([[User talk:Wellspring|talk]]) 15:51, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
:Cool.[[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 15:52, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

== Palin stuff ==

Mind taking another [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Sarah_Palin#Very_brief_Sprotection look?] Seems to be supported to extend your protection a teeny bit. <font color="0D670D" face="Georgia, Helvetica">[[User:Rootology|rootology]]</font> (<font color="#156917">[[Special:Contributions/Rootology|C]]</font>)(<font color="#156917">[[User talk:Rootology|T]]</font>) 16:10, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

== Hi! ==

Nice to know you. Thank you for rvv to my user page. Happy fighting! [[User:Oda Mari|Oda Mari]] <small>([[User talk:Oda Mari|talk]])</small> 16:12, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

== Semi Protection ==

I've asked for you to be SP'd for the moment. I hope you don't mind, I just can't follow the debate above. [[User:JASpencer|JASpencer]] ([[User talk:JASpencer|talk]]) 16:25, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
:I'll do it myself. With "Fun" comes "responsibility"... [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 16:33, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

::I just put a 15-minute range block on that particular vandal. (I don't like blocking 0/16 ranges for longer than a few minutes.) Wash, rinse, repeat as necessary. Thank you for watching over the Palin article: it's high-profile and important stuff. Cheers, [[User:Antandrus|Antandrus ]] [[User_talk:Antandrus|(talk)]] 16:38, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
:::Cheers. I'm sprotecting all my various pages in the meantime... [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 16:40, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"
|rowspan="2" valign="middle" | [[Image:WikiDefender_Barnstar.png|100px]]
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | For your facing [[Flak|flak]] from dastardly IP editors after semiprotecting the [[Sarah Palin]] article. If it gets hot in that helmet, feel free to don one of [[:Image:Flakjacketparts.png|these]]. And keep your head down, it's valuable around here! [[User:Noroton|Noroton]] ([[User talk:Noroton|talk]]) 17:17, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
|}

I'm glad it wasn't chicken. (And don't mind the turkeys or the silly gooses, you've got the eagles on your side, but if the vultures -- stop me before I allude again!) -- [[User:Noroton|Noroton]] ([[User talk:Noroton|talk]]) 18:08, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

== Whoops... re: Freemasonry in Belgium ==

(moved to archive)

==Thank you==
LHvU, for your note to me, and for your handling of the issue in general. Very thorough, well explained, and respectful to all parties. Much appreciated. Cheers, [[User:JNW|JNW]] ([[User talk:JNW|talk]]) 23:44, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

==AIV report==
I've re-added my listing - http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrator_intervention_against_vandalism&diff=prev&oldid=235529519 <font fmily="Comic sans">[[User:Corvus cornix|<span style="color:green">Corvus cornix</span>]]<sub>''[[User talk:Corvus cornix|<span style="color:Green">talk</span>]]''</sub></font> 05:35, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Actually it hasn't been resolved, just deleted from AIV with no action. <font fmily="Comic sans">[[User:Corvus cornix|<span style="color:green">Corvus cornix</span>]]<sub>''[[User talk:Corvus cornix|<span style="color:Green">talk</span>]]''</sub></font> 17:35, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

==Grand Orient of Belgium==
(copy to Freemasonry archive)

== Royce Mathew ==

Look: [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:BlackPearl14&redirect=no#In_Response] [[User:BlackPearl14|<font color="#CC5555" >BlackPearl14</font>]][[User talk:BlackPearl14|<sup><font color="#667722">Pirate Lord-ess of the Caribbean</font></sup>]] 19:29, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Sorry! My IP was recorded instead of my account ;) [[User:BlackPearl14|<font color="#CC5555" >BlackPearl14</font>]][[User talk:BlackPearl14|<sup><font color="#667722">Pirate Lord-ess of the Caribbean</font></sup>]] 19:29, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

:Nevermind, I'm sure you already know the message (it has been posted on "Admin help" on my talk page and on the sockpuppet reports) - I've asked him not to post any more comments on my page, but I doubt he'll listen. Just thought I should tell you. [[User:BlackPearl14|<font color="#CC5555" >BlackPearl14</font>]][[User talk:BlackPearl14|<sup><font color="#667722">Pirate Lord-ess of the Caribbean</font></sup>]] 19:43, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

== A diff of interest.... ==

(copy to Freemasonry archive)

== Sorry to Bother... ==

I posted my complaint against the IP for Mr. Mathew on the AIV page, but someone removed it (I accidentally made it three comments instead of one - saved it thrice, as can be seen)... could you help me with retrieving it from the history when appropriate? I can't stand being harassed by this guy anymore...and he gets mad when I tell him what he's doing. Thank you ;) [[User:BlackPearl14|<font color="#CC5555" >BlackPearl14</font>]][[User talk:BlackPearl14|<sup><font color="#667722">Pirate Lord-ess of the Caribbean</font></sup>]] 01:27, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

== [[User:Abtract]] is stalking again ==

(move to archive)

== Odd question ==

This might seem strange, but does anyone ever say something like "I read your name as LessVan HeardU?" There is probably a reference I'm missing (or I'm dyslexic), but that's how my brain processes your name audibly. Here's hoping that I'm not the only person. [[User:Protonk|Protonk]] ([[User talk:Protonk|talk]]) 13:51, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

== Not really a winner... ==

(move to Abtract, etc. archive)

==Appreciating an oblique comment?==
Thank you for your participation in [[WP:ANI#User:Tenmei's abusing AfD and personal attacks]] . In my view, there was only one constructive outcome; and it flows from something [[User:Taemyr|Taemyr]] wrote: "Something definitely needs to be done about Tenmei's style of discussion if he is to be a constructive participant in this project." [[User:Taemyr|Taemyr]]'s suggested [[mentorship]] option seems promising. In that context, I construe the following as an initial topic for discussion with a [[mentor]]. You were addressing [[User:Caspian blue|Caspian blue]] when you wrote:
*''If you don't appreciate TK commenting, I suggest you post your next complaint to [[WP:Admin Noticeboard not involving Theresa Knott (or LessHeard vanU, for that matter)]]. I certainly won't miss you. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] 15:50, 30 August 2008 (UTC) '' ....
What I don't understand is why <u>I</u> felt so extraordinarily reassured and relieved by your oblique defense of [[User:Theresa Knott|Theresa Knott]] in circumstances I still can't quite grasp.

Thank you for that terse edit in what [[User talk:JzG|Guy]] described as a "whole festival of Stupid" .... I will try to keep your wry sense of humour in mind as I continue to figure out how to improve the effectiveness of my Wikipedia contributions. --[[User:Tenmei|Tenmei]] ([[User talk:Tenmei|talk]]) 18:17, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
==RfA thanks==
{| class="messagebox standard-talk" style="border: 5px solid #CCCCCC; background-color: #FF9999;"
|align="left"|[[Image:Admin mop.PNG|60px]]
|align="center"|Thank you for voting in [[Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Tnxman307|my RfA]], which did not succeed with '''47 support''', '''21 oppose''', and '''1 neutral'''. I appreciate both the supports and the opposes. Thanks again and cheers! <b><font color="darkorange">[[User:Tnxman307|TN]]</font>‑<font color="darkblue">[[User talk:Tnxman307|X]]</font>-<font color="red">[[Special:Contributions/Tnxman307|Man]]</font></b> 19:20, 2 September 2008 (UTC) <!-- this thank-you created with Template:RfA-thanks -->
|}

== Redacted? ==

I'm not quite sure why you did this: [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=235881609&oldid=235881536]. I was directed to the AN/I page on IRC. Regards, [[User:Guido den Broeder|Guido den Broeder]] ([[User_talk:Guido_den_Broeder|talk]], [[User:Guido_den_Broeder/Visit|visit]]) 20:26, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
:Sorry, didn't catch this when it was posted... It appeared to be a personal attack, given that the account has one edit, to the userpage, made a week ago. The appropriate place to express your concerns would be to the Foundation; they have the expertise and facility to take steps against any hacking, and some evidence of your claim would help them determine the appropriate response. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 21:22, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
<!-- original response (I thought I forgot to save it, but had posted to the wrong section) was; :Because it presently falls within the ambit of a [[WP:NPA|personal attack]]. The account has made one edit to WP so far, setting up their userpage, and [[WP:AGF]] basically says they are welcome here until they do something to change that. I would suggest that you contact the Foundation, who physically run the servers, if there is a claim of possible hacking (since they have the expertise and facility to stop it, unlike admins). I would also suggest you give them some evidence of your claim, which again may help them prevent such an occurrence. Cheers. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 20:33, 2 September 2008 (UTC) -->
::OK, thanks. I'm not certain how best to contact the foundation. I never received a reply when I tried before.
::Meanwhile, user is now threatening to sue me (on what grounds I would not know). [[User:Guido den Broeder|Guido den Broeder]] ([[User_talk:Guido_den_Broeder|talk]], [[User:Guido_den_Broeder/Visit|visit]]) 23:23, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
:::Update: my complaint filed at meta was thrown out as a 'personal attack'. Nobody was interested in the evidence or even cared about the hacking, or the fact that the user deleted my complaint. You learn something new every day. [[User:Guido den Broeder|Guido den Broeder]] ([[User_talk:Guido_den_Broeder|talk]], [[User:Guido_den_Broeder/Visit|visit]]) 11:40, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
::::I would suggest that you contact the Foundation direct. [[Wikipedia Foundation#External_links]] lists the website, which should provide you with an email address or other means of communicating with them. It would be best if you can provide some evidence of your claims when contacting them, as your complaints have been dismissed as "personal attacks" in the absence of same and will likely not be considered with due regard without any. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 14:10, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::Thanks, I found [http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Contact_us this page] with contact information. I will certainly contact the foundation directly now. The situation has escalated further today. [[User:Guido den Broeder|Guido den Broeder]] ([[User_talk:Guido_den_Broeder|talk]], [[User:Guido_den_Broeder/Visit|visit]]) 21:32, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
::::::Update: the foundation redirects us back to local, where we started, in a rather aggressive tone of voice. I.e., we have gone full circle without anyone taking responsibility. [[User:Guido den Broeder|Guido den Broeder]] ([[User_talk:Guido_den_Broeder|talk]], [[User:Guido_den_Broeder/Visit|visit]]) 07:50, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::::In which case, I suggest dropping the matter. If subsequent events prove you right, then you have a clear conscience - and more fool "the authorities" that were unable to process your concerns. If nothing happens, then you acted in good faith but appropriately did not pursue the concerns. In short, it is time to step away. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 10:25, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

==My RfA==
Thank you for your support in my recent [[Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Malcolmxl5|RfA]], which was successful with 58 support, 4 oppose and 1 neutral. Thank you also for your gentle reminder. Kind regards. --[[User:Malcolmxl5|Malcolmxl5]] ([[User talk:Malcolmxl5|talk]]) 20:41, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

== {{userlinks|Andy Bjornovich}} ==
Are there a pile of deleted contributions I can't see? I can't say that I was happy over my interaction with him, but I can't see anything in his undeleted contributions that approaches justification for a one-week block.[[User:Kww|Kww]] ([[User talk:Kww|talk]]) 22:05, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
:Thanks for the concern; I would point toward the block log - blocked indef for behaviour toward other contributors, and lifted upon undertaking to improve. I consider that they are thus amply warned of the consequences of resuming the problematic attitude. As I said at ANI, lifting the sanction is fine just as long as the editor understands that they need to change their ways in interacting with people. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 22:09, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
::I don't have anything to say one way or the other about the block, but these two edits [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rh%C3%ADannon_Thomas&diff=235759808&oldid=235759663] [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rh%C3%ADannon_Thomas&diff=235759933&oldid=235759808] from this morning illustrate his unwillingness to listen to other editors. They're additions of completely irrelevant links, after it was explained to him why they shouldn't be included. [[User:Justinfr|justinfr]] ([[User talk:justinfr|talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Justinfr|contribs]]) 22:16, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
::Missed the discussion at [[WP:AN]], and the signature discussion. Sorry for the intrusion.[[User:Kww|Kww]] ([[User talk:Kww|talk]]) 22:17, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
He's block evading using an IP now - see [[Special:Contributions/212.159.64.14]]. [[User:Tombomp|Tombomp]] ([[User_talk:Tombomp|talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Tombomp|contribs]]) 16:00, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
:::See below, he is editing his own page via ip. Since the majority of the edits are to a page he would be permitted to edit under his name anyway - and none are disruptive - I see no reason for considering warning, blocking the ip or extending the account sanction. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 16:32, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
:::You're completely right, I was just a little trigger, sorry. [[User:Tombomp|Tombomp]] ([[User_talk:Tombomp|talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Tombomp|contribs]]) 16:54, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
=== response from ip ====

I think you'll find it's my user talk pages I can edit, not my user page.--[[Special:Contributions/212.159.64.14|212.159.64.14]] ([[User talk:212.159.64.14|talk]]) 16:21, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
:True, but only one edit was to your userpage - one other was to a subpage. Four(?) were to the talkpage. If you put up a reasonable request (as yourself) on your talkpage I am sure someone will help you. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 16:32, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
=== Editing ===

I have checked, and no, I can't edit my user page. [[User:Andy Bjornovich]] <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/212.159.64.14|212.159.64.14]] ([[User talk:212.159.64.14|talk]]) 10:14, 7 September 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:Yes, that was a mistake on my part. Is there an edit you wish me to make on your behalf? [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 10:19, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
No there isn't, and the reason for that is because I know where I want to put them and it takes a while for me to position them right. However, could you watch my user and usertalk pages so that any edits I make to my user and talk pages via my IP address that get reverted, could you revert back and tell the reverting editor they have not been deleted, they have been moved. Messages to my talk page go to User:Andy Bjornovch/Other, and userboxen I nick via my user that are copied and pasted go to the User page. Okay?--[[Special:Contributions/212.159.64.14|212.159.64.14]] ([[User talk:212.159.64.14|talk]]) 11:35, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
:Okay, although I am just about to go offline for a while. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 11:58, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

I think you'll find it's AZPPB, not AB, and it may change if I remember any more pieces of it. I don't normally allow people into [[User talk:Andy Bjornovich/Other|this]] page, but you and any other administrators involved in my thing with signature/block/conversations have permission. Please use it if you have a conversation about me!--[[Special:Contributions/79.73.71.54|79.73.71.54]] ([[User talk:79.73.71.54|talk]]) 17:31, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

== Re: ==

Thank you so much ;) It's just - behaviour like this from an adult is ''really'' unnerving, considering I'd like some good role models for myself (and I can now safely say you're one of them) ;) Thank you for all you've done, it really helped me a lot! [[User:BlackPearl14|<font color="#CC5555" >BlackPearl14</font>]][[User talk:BlackPearl14|<sup><font color="#667722">talkies!</font></sup>]] 23:41, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
:As for confirmation: I was born on <redacted> therefore I ''am'' a minor. I do hope this doesn't mean my school isn't involved, I wouldn't want anything on a record, as I'm aiming for university! ;) Thank you for your help. [[User:BlackPearl14|<font color="#CC5555" >BlackPearl14</font>]][[User talk:BlackPearl14|<sup><font color="#667722">talkies!</font></sup>]] 23:58, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
::Ah! Thanks for removing that, I didn't realize! And thank you for the advice on role models, I really appreciate it ;) [[User:BlackPearl14|&#91;&#91;User:BlackPearl14&#124;&lt;font color=&quot;#CC5555&quot; &gt;BlackPearl14&lt;/font&gt;&#93;&#93;&#91;&#91;User talk:BlackPearl14&#124;&lt;sup&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;#667722&quot;&gt;talkies!&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&#93;&#93;]] ([[User talk:BlackPearl14|talk]]) 20:00, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

==UNCYCLOPEDIA==
You would think that an article about a site of wit and laffs would have a guard with a sense of humor. I recently made the mistake of thinking, at [[Uncyclopedia]], that I could improve the Lead, just a bit, and add a little whimsy. "GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR""....the Otter at the door said...and then a tag-team of terrible "tuffs" appeared out of nowhere. I was lucky to get away with my Good Faith Editors Badge intact. Nice to meet ya....and, "Bob's yur Uncle.--[[User:Buster7|Buster7]] ([[User talk:Buster7|talk]]) 01:02, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
:It would seem (although I may be wrong) that you believe that I should know you... If I do, I am sorry but I don't seem to have picked up the clues (and if I have interacted with you on some other page, sorry again but it seems to have slipped my mind). Yours, [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 19:27, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

::Sorry...I didn't mean to be so overly-friendly. Its a design flaw of mine. My reaching out to you was because of [[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Unencyclopedia&diff=prev&oldid=226725573]]
and the furor that followed what I still think was a mild, unprovocative sentance. You came into the picture much later but for basically the same reason for a completely different edit and editor, but, again, an over-the-top response by Otterathome [[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AOtterhome&diff=235884280&oldid=235883336]]

Ive read alot of your entries and I appreciate where you are coming from----Protecting Wikipedia.....so.........basically it was just a handshake and a "Howdy-do"--[[User:Buster7|Buster7]] ([[User talk:Buster7|talk]]) 04:56, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
:Ah, I missed the Otter reference - generally because that was a post and forget intervention (though it is amusing, when reviewing the link, that the editor managed to miss my point entirely). Being "overfriendly" is fine; it leads to me being confused, but that is common with so many things it is no reason to suggest toning down something that is of benefit. "''Howdy-do, back to you!''" [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 09:12, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

== For the record ==

(move to Abtract, etc. archive)

== Request for clarification on your recent action.==
Dear Admn. I would like to what alerted you to block me. You blocked me when I made an edit to bring back a section that was removed in bad faith and a RFC was initiated by Ncmvocalist. As I understand also pointed by other editor Erachima such deletion by Ncmvocalist is against Wikipedia policy.

As I understand direct reverts automatically alert Admn. In this case your action is followed after an edit. During the same period I could see on you talk pages there were some intimate transactions going on between Ncmvocalist and you on a different topic. I want to make sure you were not requested to intervene and block me. Please clarify so that I can understand the situation better.
Thanks. [[User:Naadapriya|Naadapriya]] ([[User talk:Naadapriya|talk]]) 15:22, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

:Sorry, first I had inadvertently placed above comment on your user page.[[User:Naadapriya|Naadapriya]] ([[User talk:Naadapriya|talk]]) 15:28, 3 September 2008 (UTC)


Ncmvocalist requested to block at 09:52, 1 September 2008 and bloking took place at 10:30, 1 September 2008 i.e just within 38 minutes. It was acknowledged that the comment I had placed to justify was not read. Given the complexity of situation I guess it would have required more than 38 minutes to make such big decision on blocking. My action before I was blocked was a normal edit to bring back a section that was deleted by Ncmvocalist in bad faith before initiating a RFC. All my other edits were to modify sections based some recent comments in RFC regarding quotes from [[RS]].

I strongly consider my blocking is a result of unfortunate misleading information posted by Ncmvocalist. He has tried it several times in the past without success. In such failed attempts once I guess he himself got blocked. Somehow he succeeded this time. At this stage nothing I can do about my blocking. However, I would like to request Admns to make wikipedia allowed provision to bring back the section that Ncmvocalist has deleted before starting the RFC. It will bring back the article to a status at which Georgewilliamherbert wanted to edit protect for a while. Deleting valid [[NPOV]] section without discussion that too just before RFC is ignoring [[NPOV]] effort in good faith by many editors to include the section.

Section can be modified based on RFC conclusions. [[User:Naadapriya|Naadapriya]] ([[User talk:Naadapriya|talk]]) 06:49, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

:Since coming out of the short block, he doesn't appear to have any intention of having the matter resolved, and shows little change in being disruptive agenda-driven account who will not make any constructive contributions. No matter how many times he's been told, or how many users have tried to explain it to him differently, he's continued to disrupt Wikipedia, using it as a battleground to harass those users who do not conform to his POV-pushing [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Carnatic_music&diff=prev&oldid=236404237] [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3ACarnatic_music&diff=236405918&oldid=236404237] [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Carnatic_music&diff=prev&oldid=236401880], whether it's through tendentious arguments [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:LessHeard_vanU&diff=prev&oldid=236185953] http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ncmvocalist&diff=prev&oldid=236176207 and on some occasions with threats [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Mspraveen&diff=prev&oldid=236256876]. He's been warned [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3ANaadapriya&diff=236240217&oldid=236179840] yet his response shows no change either [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Naadapriya&diff=next&oldid=236240217]. Can you please reblock him? [[User:Ncmvocalist|Ncmvocalist]] ([[User talk:Ncmvocalist|talk]]) 11:35, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
::I am going to demur on the block; while the edits are confined to talkspace the editor is exercising their right to [[WP:DIGYOUROWNHOLE]] (''I cannot use the text of the source I am using <u>because it is copyright</u>''? Please!). While it also appears to be poor faith, there are no ''ad hominem'' attacks that justify sanction. My view is that the discussion is over, nobody is convinced by this editors arguments, and that any further posts on the subject should be ignored. If Naadapriya edits the article again to his preferred version, then a block would be justified - as it would be if they keep posting (in the absence of continued responses) disruptively. I would comment, however, that I would not consider the possibility of contemplating perhaps raising a query if another sysop took a differing view and acted. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 12:02, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
:::Okay. Please note [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3ACarnatic_music&diff=236631903&oldid=236624187 this edit] - if he reverts it, I think a block would be justified. [[User:Ncmvocalist|Ncmvocalist]] ([[User talk:Ncmvocalist|talk]]) 10:46, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

== [[User:Charmed36]], [[User:Jamalar]] and these bloody IP'S they are using. ==

OK. I have been monitoring both editors in recent weeks. More so Jamalar than Charmed36. They hate each other and wiki-stalk one another's edits, engaging in edit wars. You recently gave Charmed36 a warning for that insult against the IP in the edit summary. Well it turns out the IP is actually Jamalar (I think Charmed36 knew this but I only just put 2 and 2 together). Jamalar has been using that IP to evade a block. See [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Spellcast#User:Jamalar this] and Jamalars talk page.

Jamalar and Charmed36 are too very disruptive editors, a lot of their disruption is directed at one another. I don't know where we go from here, but I think they both need to be put on some sort of parole and topic bans. Jamalar should be banned in all honesty, she has been using multiple accounts and IP's for too long. — [[User:Realist2|<span style="color:#4173E4">'''''Realist'''''</span>]][[User_talk:Realist2|<span style="color:#D80B0B"><sup>'''''2'''''</sup></span>]] 19:49, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
:Agree, Charmed36's incivility is terrible no matter who it's directed at. I'm just letting you know that there was more to it than originally thought. Needless to say, they will both carry on as they have, either on these accounts or other accounts or IP's. — [[User:Realist2|<span style="color:#4173E4">'''''Realist'''''</span>]][[User_talk:Realist2|<span style="color:#D80B0B"><sup>'''''2'''''</sup></span>]] 20:14, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
::[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=I_Kissed_a_Girl&diff=prev&oldid=236170233 I think Charmed36 needs help]. Well, he could have pretended to be nice for a few days until we stopped monitoring his actions. Oh well. — [[User:Realist2|<span style="color:#4173E4">'''''Realist'''''</span>]][[User_talk:Realist2|<span style="color:#D80B0B"><sup>'''''2'''''</sup></span>]] 14:06, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

== Mostly unrelated ==

Just wanted to say thanks for allowing the lengthy Abtract/Collectoninan/Sesshomaru discussion to take place on your talk page; I'm sure you're getting lots of "You have new messages" notices, but I'm glad to see that we seem to be getting there.

Also, your archive box is cool. :) -- [[User:Natalya|Nataly<font color="green">a</font>]] 00:17, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

== So where was this pic taken and what were you doing with Sarah P. and when were you in Alaska? ==

Hmmmmmmmm. [http://www.juneauempire.com/slideshows/090208/326628504/slide1.shtml] -- [[User:Noroton|Noroton]] ([[User talk:Noroton|talk]]) 01:12, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
:I was about to say that the guy has no earring, but I have not been wearing mine for a week so I think I would comment that I do not own a shirt like that (and you will have to take my word for it...) Anyway, as I recall it, she was saying, "No, I will not pour you a beer - I said I was a '''''Re'''''publican!"

== My edits ==

The Katy Perry edit was not disruptive. I have been loyal to Wikipedia for years. [[User:Charmed36|Charmed36]] ([[User talk:Charmed36|talk]]) 19:38, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
:Charmed36, the fact that you think [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=I_Kissed_a_Girl&diff=236170233&oldid=236162709 this isn't disruptive] shows how long you have managed to get away with doing what you like. It is very incivil. — [[User:Realist2|<span style="color:#4173E4">'''''Realist'''''</span>]][[User_talk:Realist2|<span style="color:#D80B0B"><sup>'''''2'''''</sup></span>]] 19:47, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

== Help with Signature! ==

Hi again, LessHeard! This is BlackPearl14, by the way. My signature isn't working, and I've checked the coding, it ''should'' work! Any help is greatly appreciated ;) [[User:BlackPearl14|&#91;&#91;User:BlackPearl14&#124;&lt;font color=&quot;#CC5555&quot; &gt;BlackPearl14&lt;/font&gt;&#93;&#93;&#91;&#91;User talk:BlackPearl14&#124;&lt;sup&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;#667722&quot;&gt;talkies!&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&#93;&#93;]] ([[User talk:BlackPearl14|talk]]) 23:02, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
:Right, sorry, but it's a legal threat? Sent to Wikimedia? I've been told to take it to incidents, it's been seen in consensus as a real problem - another admin contacted me just now. As for my signature, could you help out? [[User:BlackPearl14|&#91;&#91;User:BlackPearl14&#124;&lt;font color=&quot;#CC5555&quot; &gt;BlackPearl14&lt;/font color&gt;&#93;&#93;&#91;&#91;User talk:BlackPearl14&#124;&lt;sup&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;#667722&quot;&gt;talkies!&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&#93;&#93;]] ([[User talk:BlackPearl14|talk]]) 23:45, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
::Send to [[Mike Godwin]] (links on WP article page); he is the bloke for legal stuff. If there is anything you need to do, he (or Wikipedia Office or like) will let you know - but believe me, this is not the first or last time someone will try to use a younger member of the volunteer staff try to enforce their wishes. Just pass it on to one of the ''senior'' (Hi, Mike - I may be even older than you, and it don't bother me!) individuals at WP.
::I am unable to sort your sig - but it may be that there is no space between the Userpage sig and the talkpage sig... if only I knew the coding for both the double square brackets and that for the space. Hope that helps. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 00:00, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
:::Thanks so much for your help, LessHeard, I really appreciate it! [[User:BlackPearl14|&#91;&#91;User:BlackPearl14&#124;&lt;font color=&quot;#CC5555&quot; &gt;BlackPearl14&lt;/font&gt;&#93;&#93;&#91;&#91;User talk:BlackPearl14&#124;&lt;sup&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;#667722&quot;&gt;talkies!&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/sup&gt;&#93;&#93;]] ([[User talk:BlackPearl14|talk]]) 00:03, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

== Block needed ==
Hi there. On [[User_talk:Rainbow1981]], you recently implemented a short block due to image-related vandalism. However, this editor has recently uploaded copyvio images on commons. How can he be stopped? Can there be an indef block on him or at least image uploads? Thanks. [[User:Mspraveen|Mspraveen]] ([[User talk:Mspraveen|talk]]) 05:05, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
:Thanks for the pointers. I'll bear them while dealing with such editors. Cheers! [[User:Mspraveen|Mspraveen]] ([[User talk:Mspraveen|talk]]) 17:55, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

== Thanks! ==

Thanks for blocking the vandals on Shaun Alexander. That was really getting old. I was also about to go to [[WP:RPP]], then you protected it. :) [[User:Burner0718|'''<font color="red">Burner</font><font color="gray">0718</font>''']] [[User talk:Burner0718|''<sup><font color="#000000">Jibba Jabba!</font></sup>'']] 20:47, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
:Sure. [[User:Burner0718|'''<font color="red">Burner</font><font color="gray">0718</font>''']] [[User talk:Burner0718|''<sup><font color="#000000">Jibba Jabba!</font></sup>'']] 20:50, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

== [[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Sarah Palin protection wheel war]] ==

The ''Sarah Palin wheel war'' arbitration case, on which you have commented, is now open.
*Evidence for the arbitrators may be submitted at [[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Sarah Palin protection wheel war/Evidence]]. Evidence should be submitted within one week, if possible.
*Your contributions are also welcome at [[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Sarah Palin protection wheel war/Workshop]].

For the Arbitration Committee, [[User:AGK|<font color="#2A8B31">'''Anthøny'''</font>]] [[user talk:AGK|<font color="#2A8B31">✉</font>]] 21:11, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

== Can you help? ==

Hello LessHeard vanU. On August 24 you blocked IP 68.195.3.185 for 6 months for disruptive genre edits/ignoring talk page consensus etc. That editor has returned with a different IP. They are now 68.195.25.27. They are easy to identify because they use the same repeat edit summary ''"action metal"'' for every single edit. I was hoping you could look into this new IP evading your 6 month block. Thank you. [[User:Peter Fleet|Peter Fleet]] ([[User talk:Peter Fleet|talk]]) 13:02, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
:Thanks a lot for the quick response. If I notice another new IP from that range repeating the same 'action' can I report them straight to you? If I try AiV I will likely get someone unfamiliar with the history who doesn't see the IP edits as disruptive. [[User:Peter Fleet|Peter Fleet]] ([[User talk:Peter Fleet|talk]]) 13:17, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
::Thanks. I didn't know about that previous IP template. Hopefully the person will just go away and I won't have to use it. [[User:Peter Fleet|Peter Fleet]] ([[User talk:Peter Fleet|talk]]) 14:00, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
Just to follow up on this conversation. Another IP (this time it was 64.131.207.24) appeared earlier this evening and, basically, repeated the edits of the IP you blocked. This time around there wasn't an 'action metal' edit summary. But the IP seemed to hit every single article that the other IP did, with the exact same edits. DNS search puts the two IPs in two different places - but both are in New York State. I hate to assume anything other than good faith. But the "regional coincidence" seems to lean towards block evasion. Another user rv'd every edit the new IP did. I don't see where it's worth anyone's time to do a formal sock case. Your Wikipedia experience is much greater than my own, I just wanted to bring the IP to your attention to hear your thoughts on the matter. Thanks for your time. [[User:Peter Fleet|Peter Fleet]] ([[User talk:Peter Fleet|talk]]) 23:24, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

== ANI Kaihsu header ==

Changed per your note on my talk page. Thanks! [[User:Georgewilliamherbert|Georgewilliamherbert]] ([[User talk:Georgewilliamherbert|talk]]) 01:11, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

== RE: AIV.. ==

So whenever he makes an edit I feel strongly against, I just let it happen? [[::User:Police,Mad,Jack|Police,Mad,Jack]]&nbsp;([[::User talk:Police,Mad,Jack|talk]]&nbsp;'''·''' [[::Special:Contributions/Police,Mad,Jack|contribs]])<font size="4">☺</font> 10:48, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

==Hi==

You might be interested in the discussion [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#STILL_at_it. here]. [[User:Exploding Boy|Exploding Boy]] ([[User talk:Exploding Boy|talk]]) 18:22, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

== Block? ==

[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log/block&page=User:96.56.210.210 Concerning this], it doesn't look like the IP has received ANY warnings. Can you explain the "blocked user 31 hrs, vandalism past final warning" summary? Am I going blind, or is my computer malfunctioning? <font face="Gill Sans MT">[[User:IceUnshattered|I]][[Special:Contributions/IceUnshattered|<font color="#9CBCC9">''c''</font>]][[User:IceUnshattered|<font color="darkblue">eUnshattered</font>]] <sup>[ [[User talk:IceUnshattered|t]] ]</sup></font> 21:55, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

== Sarah Palin wheel war case request for evidence ==

Copying this to all admins who applied or extended protection on the [[Sarah Palin]] article.

To date there's been plenty of evidence pointing to discussions and otherwise offering commentary on the admin actions taken, but there's been little covering the circumstances prior to admin actions, namely the edits that the admins concerned based protection on. Newyorkbrad has [[Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Sarah_Palin_protection_wheel_war/Workshop#Questions_to_the_parties|put a question to the parties]] on this basis, but it seems to be only non-parties that have noticed that so far, so I'm putting this question to those involved directly.

Rootology has made a start here, and GRBerry has started drafting in his userspace. Ye might like to assist them in their efforts, or add a section of your own. This evidence will be vital in assisting the Committee's understanding of not only ''what'' happened and when, but ''why'' it happened. --[[User:Thebainer|bainer]]&nbsp;([[User_talk:Thebainer|talk]]) 14:01, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

::Can I comment at the Sarah Palin Workshop?? Or would it be better to wait for admins to respond first? I would be surprised if the Repulican Party did not make sure that the Sarah Palin article passed the "sniff test" prior to her announced addition to the ticket. That maybe a "good" article to revert to. Other thoughts also...freedom, over-reaction, future effect in WikiWorld, etc,--[[User:Buster7|Buster7]] ([[User talk:Buster7|talk]]) 00:09, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

== Follow-up on a block you made ==

LessHeard vanU, a little while ago you blocked {{ipvandal|74.138.170.238}} for various disruptive acts. Looks like since the block has expired, the anon editor has picked up right where they left off. Mind taking a look? Thanks, [[User:Alanyst|alanyst]] <sup>/[[User talk:Alanyst|talk]]/</sup> 04:32, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

== Advice please regarding cut-and-paste from websites ==
Hi - I would appreciate your advice about recent edits to a wiki-entry I have put some work into, namely [West Bergholt]. I am involved with the Parish Council there and so do have an interest. I have recently noted some large edits to the page that are comprised of unashamed wholesale cut-and-paste of large sections from the village website. It may well be flattering that the prose on the website is deemed by somebody as worth repetition but am I right in thinking that editors ought to précis information and quote external references rather than repeat wholesale? I'm happy for you to reply here or on my page as you see fit or consider most convenient. [[User:DaveK@BTC|DaveK@BTC]] ([[User talk:DaveK@BTC|talk]]) 12:44, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

== I await your instructions ==
(moved to Abtract, etc. archive)

== I don't want to be a part of it ==

(moved to Abtract etc. archive)

==Bart Versieck: Sockpuppet?==

Greetings,

It seems that Bart Versieck has created a sockpuppet to evade his block:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Flemishboy

The edits of "Flemishboy" look and sound exactly like Versieck-speak.

Sad. What is so important about making MINOR fixes? As I mentioned before, OCD persons feel COMPELLED to do it; they have to do it. No amount of second or third chances will change that, it appears. Sadly.

[[User:Ryoung122|<span style="color:green">Ryoung122</span>]] 05:00, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

== [[wp:newbies]] ==

I wonder if you would be kind enough as to inform Coll that [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AOne_Hundred_and_One_Dalmatians&diff=236660032&oldid=236659714| this] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AMrBumpFan&diff=236660109&oldid=235367044| this]is not the way to treat newcomers ... this guy hasn't even been welcomed yet, may I welcome them? Thanks. [[User:Abtract|Abtract]] ([[User talk:Abtract|talk]]) 13:42, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

:I see no-one has welcomed this guy yet; I wonder, could you do it please? Also [[User:Hexhand]] appears never to have been welcomed yet he started editing in June; I wouldn't want them to think we are all going to bite them so maybe you could welcome them as well? If you don't want to, that's ok I will ask some-one else. [[User:Abtract|Abtract]] ([[User talk:Abtract|talk]]) 05:26, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
::There is no need to welcome someone, especially if they seem to have the hang of things, just because they have been missed previously. No welcome is not [[WP:BITE|biting]] them. I really would just let these things slide. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 13:06, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

:::Both of these relatively newcomers have been bitten by Collectonian, may I welcome them? [[User:Abtract|Abtract]] ([[User talk:Abtract|talk]]) 17:49, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

== Lunarian ==

I'm not sure if you're still keeping an eye on [[Masonic ritual and symbolism]], but I've been having a basically fruitless "discussion" with Lunarian - the talk page is getting full of quotes that apparently have no stated purpose except to waste time. none of the dialogu has anything to do with improving the article, despite the fact that I have directly asked on at least three occasions what Lunarian's point is, or what he's trying to say, and rather than an answer, there's snippy comments and more quotes. It's well into disruptive at this point, and I think AGF is right out the window. [[User:MSJapan|MSJapan]] ([[User talk:MSJapan|talk]]) 13:45, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

== Thank you for the courtesy notice ==

Anytime. :) It was a pleasure to work with you on this, as well as Natalya and JHunterJ, and I look forward to future discussions with you. And although you might not hear this enough; your help is always appreciated. ;) [[User:Ncmvocalist|Ncmvocalist]] ([[User talk:Ncmvocalist|talk]]) 15:29, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

== something peculiar happened ==

During [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AAbtract&diff=238437502&oldid=238309740| this edit] several categories appeared on my talk page (by mistake I presume). Unfortunately I cannot see where they are to edit them out ... also my talk page has been semiprotected which I have no desire for; can you help pls? [[User:Abtract|Abtract]] ([[User talk:Abtract|talk]]) 21:22, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
:I've fixed it, LHvU used curly brackets instead of square ones, and this transcluded a userpage onto your talk page. [[User:DuncanHill|DuncanHill]] ([[User talk:DuncanHill|talk]]) 21:28, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
::Cheers, Dunc. I had intended to use the curly brackets, but have a ''"|"'' instead of a colon (<nowiki>{{User|Sesshomaru}}</nowiki> which creates links to the talkpage and contrib histories) but the correction is fine. Ta. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 21:34, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
:::OK. [[User:DuncanHill|DuncanHill]] ([[User talk:DuncanHill|talk]]) 21:39, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

== My comment goes unanswered ==

I'm referring to [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:LessHeard_vanU/archive&diff=prev&oldid=238269703 this]. Can we solve this problem before I or Abtract get blocked for "editing the same page as the other"? Please reply at [[User talk:LessHeard vanU/archive]], or your talk page if preferred. [[User:Sesshomaru|Lord Sesshomaru]] <small>([[User talk:Sesshomaru|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Sesshomaru|edits]])</small> 16:28, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
:LessHeard vanU, [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Harry_Potter_related_topics&curid=10447050&diff=238615884&oldid=238615187 Abtract reverted on a page I recently edited]. Didn't you say this was against the contract? [[User:Sesshomaru|Lord Sesshomaru]] <small>([[User talk:Sesshomaru|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Sesshomaru|edits]])</small> 17:16, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
::Thinks "I wonder if he noticed that I reverted back to his version?". [[User:Abtract|Abtract]] ([[User talk:Abtract|talk]]) 17:18, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
:::LessHeard vanU, may [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kei&curid=2985659&diff=238586143&oldid=231320793 this edit] be reverted? I'm only asking this because Abtract made edits to the page before. [[User:Sesshomaru|Lord Sesshomaru]] <small>([[User talk:Sesshomaru|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Sesshomaru|edits]])</small> 17:27, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
::::I reverted. Per WP:AGF I am not going to ask how you noticed it. Give me a while regarding the second comment. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 19:49, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
::::I have asked JHunterJ to look into it. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 20:03, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::The prohibition is against "interacting with, or, directly or indirectly, commenting on each other on any page in Wikipedia". I'm assuming no other intra-party accords have been reached about other restrictions or divisions of labor. Given that, I'd say thtqa [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Harry_Potter_related_topics&curid=10447050&diff=238615884&oldid=238615187 this reversion], in which Abtract reverts an uninvolved user's edit to a version of Sesshomaru's, is clearly fine. Similarly, Sesshomaru could have reverted [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kei&curid=2985659&diff=238586143&oldid=231320793 this edit] (an anonymous user's addition to a page also touched by Abtract). On a topic not discussed in this section, Sesshomaru's addition of a dab project tag to create a Talk page for a disambiguation page created by Abtract is also 100% fine. Could the parties involved reserve the complaints for situations where they actually disagree with the contents of the resulting page, please? -- [[User:JHunterJ|JHunterJ]] ([[User talk:JHunterJ|talk]]) 20:37, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Thanks J, I've done [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Sesshomaru&diff=238660696&oldid=238626158 this] as a result of your investigation. I'm willing to resolve the matter, but everyone keeps ignoring a primary concern of mine. [[User:Sesshomaru|Lord Sesshomaru]] <small>([[User talk:Sesshomaru|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Sesshomaru|edits]])</small> 20:45, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

I really do think you have taken a sledge-hammer to crack a nut here guys. Sess and I had all but ironed out our differences and come to an understanding on JHJ's special page; this was sadly undone when Sess misunderstood my friendly farewell note (possibly because he wanted to be seen to support Coll). Left to our own devices I am pretty sure we can co-exist on all pages with Sess taking a minute detailed approach and me being cavalier and missing stuff. If Sess is happy for the restrictions between us to be removed (and I sense that he is) then why not make life easy for all of us and do so? I make no similar comment about Collectonian. [[User:Abtract|Abtract]] ([[User talk:Abtract|talk]]) 21:29, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
:Actually, if you and Sess are happy to edit without the restrictions, you are welcome to do so -- provided you agree with each other to avoid reporting the other to the admins, we will remain blissfully unaware of the activity. -- [[User:JHunterJ|JHunterJ]] ([[User talk:JHunterJ|talk]]) 12:03, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
::Think that answers my question. Much appreciated J. [[User:Sesshomaru|Lord Sesshomaru]] <small>([[User talk:Sesshomaru|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Sesshomaru|edits]])</small> 18:00, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
::Just to be clear, the restrictions on Abtract and I are still in effect, correct? -- [[::User:Collectonian|<span style='font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color:#5342F'>Collectonian</span>]]&nbsp;([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]]&nbsp;'''·''' [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 18:16, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
:::The restrictions between Collectonian and Abtract are in effect, yes. The restrictions between Sesshomaru and Abtract are also still in effect, although possibly those two users might agree or have already agreed not to report any violations of those restrictions. -- [[User:JHunterJ|JHunterJ]] ([[User talk:JHunterJ|talk]]) 19:27, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
:::Per JHunterJ above. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 12:37, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
Can we be clear that neither of the three admins involved will punish Sess or me for "interaction violations" unless one of us reports the other? And Sess, are we clear that we have grown through our problems, understand our differing styles and will edit responsibly around each other (I suggest this should mean we do not revert each other at least for a few months)? If this is what's being said I am quite happy to go along with it. [[User:Abtract|Abtract]] ([[User talk:Abtract|talk]]) 05:55, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
:Confirmed - no '''sanctions''' regarding interactions between Abtract and Sesshomaru unless reported by an involved party. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 12:37, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
::Abtract, I'll be more than happy to answer your questions long as you reply to mine. [[User:Sesshomaru|Lord Sesshomaru]] <small>([[User talk:Sesshomaru|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Sesshomaru|edits]])</small> 16:36, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
:::If you mean what pages are on my watchlist, it isn't relevant since we will be operating without restrictions. [[User:Abtract|Abtract]] ([[User talk:Abtract|talk]]) 21:47, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
::::You're actually gonna believe that? Or are you still trying to find ways to ignore me? [[User:Sesshomaru|Lord Sesshomaru]] <small>([[User talk:Sesshomaru|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Sesshomaru|edits]])</small> 23:47, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::Yes I do believe it; why would he lie to us? [[User:Abtract|Abtract]] ([[User talk:Abtract|talk]]) 05:31, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
::::::Ah, forget it. Guess we'll never get our respective answers. [[User:Sesshomaru|Lord Sesshomaru]] <small>([[User talk:Sesshomaru|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Sesshomaru|edits]])</small> 21:02, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::::I'm not quite sure I understand that but let's move on ... do you want to operate like adults with no restrictions on a "no reporting and no reverting" basis or not? [[User:Abtract|Abtract]] ([[User talk:Abtract|talk]]) 22:13, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
::::::::Abtract, what is the point in answering you if you won't respond to my query? [[User:Sesshomaru|Lord Sesshomaru]] <small>([[User talk:Sesshomaru|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Sesshomaru|edits]])</small> 23:15, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

== User JASpencer ==

Less... I know that you have mediated between MSJapan and JASpecer in the past... Perhaps you would help me out in my own dispute with JAS. It concerns another case of JAS jumping the gun as far as redirects go... to be specific: I have been attempting to deal with an article on yet another non-notable Masonic Grand Orient ([[Grand Orient of the United States of America]]). Based on the fact that, as soon as such an article is deleted at AfD, JAS will create a redirect to his [[Continental Freemasonry]] article, I attempted to skip the AfD step and suggested that we simply reach a consensus to redirect. It took some discussion, and a side debate or two... but all the editors working on the page finally agreed to do this. Almost immediately, however, JAS re-redirected the information into a sub-article on [[Continental Freemasonry in North America]]. I find this to be extremely bad faith, as this was ''not'' the consensus at the GOUSA article. More to the point, I have made it clear to JASpencer on several occasions that I was strongly oppose the creation of any "Continental Freemasonry in x" article. I think that such articles violate NPOV by only discussing one branch of Freemasonry without discussing the other. As I have told JAS on numerous occasions, I do support broader "Freemasonry in x" articles provided that they discuss both "Mainstream" and "Continental" branches of Freemasonry in any given region.

On a lesser note, more connected with MSJ's previous complaints about impropper redirects ... JASpencer recently pre-emptively redirected the names of two websites to the main Freemasonry article. I have to question this... one of the names, "masonicinfo.com", is the website of a noted masonic appologist (this website was recently the topic of discussion in the GOUSA article I mention above, and was deemed to be unreliable as it is self-published)... the other is "Freemasonrywatch.com", an anti-masonic rant website that has actually been banned on Wikipedia for spamming. I seriously doubt that anyone would actually search for either of these website names on Wikipedia... but if they did, is it really appropriate to redirect them to [[Freemasonry]]? I would think it more appropriate to have a "no article" result. [[User:Blueboar|Blueboar]] ([[User talk:Blueboar|talk]]) 00:41, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
:Firstly, give me the name of the two redirects and I will delete them; if they have been considered unreliable and especially one a spamsite then they have no place in the encyclopedia (in this instance, a redirect may be considered as providing a legitimacy they would not otherwise have). Secondly, and the first matters mentioned, is that [[WP:Consensus]] over-rides [[WP:BOLD]]. I would suggest that the redirect be as per consensus. As far as redirecting to ''Continental Freemasonry'' articles, as the article(s) exist(s) then it appears to be the logical place for them. If there is any problem with the provenance of the ''"Continental Freemasonry in ''X''"'' articles then it would be a question of arguing for a merge into the relevant existing Freemasonry articles that cover those areas; Simply, it would be more encyclopedic to have one article covering Freemasonry in an area, which has content relating to all kinds of disciplines. If that were the case, then all redirects would point to that umbrella article. I trust this helps. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 13:00, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
::Yes, it helps, thanks. The "articles" that were redirected are: [[Freemasonrywatch.org]] and [[Masonicinfo.com]]. [[User:Blueboar|Blueboar]] ([[User talk:Blueboar|talk]]) 15:31, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
:::Just as a matter of record I agreed for the article to be merged/renamed to [[Continental Freemasonry in North America]] '''not''' to be redirected. It was then simply redirected. I assumed good faith and thought that this was an invitation to start the article up.
:::Didn't realise about spamsites policy, I'll have to read up on it. Do you have a link for the policy on this as I read [[WP:REDIRECT]] when MSJ tried to argue against redirects for deleted articles (and just re-read it now) but I didn't see anything about adding legitimacy to [[WP:BADSITES]].
:::[[User:JASpencer|JASpencer]] ([[User talk:JASpencer|talk]]) 19:29, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
::::[[WP:SPAM]] is the page, but the wording is ambiguous - however, it is clear that spam is not wanted (only legitimate sources referred to in the text are generally permitted) and having a spamsite as a searchable name defeats that. I shall delete the redirects. As regards the redirect, if it could be taken back to the consensus state then there is no further action needed. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 12:49, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::So you're deleting as an A7? I thought speedy's were narrowly defined. You live and learn. [[User:JASpencer|JASpencer]] ([[User talk:JASpencer|talk]]) 17:55, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
::::::The subject of the [[masonicinfo.com]] deletion was brought up on Blueboar's user page. I know it's a novel approach but I think that you should be told if I talk about you on other people's user pages. [[User:JASpencer|JASpencer]] ([[User talk:JASpencer|talk]]) 19:44, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Both items were WP:SPAM in my opinion; an item does not have to be blacklisted to be spam. The sites are non-notable and do not otherwise meet WP criteria by themselves. Moreover, anyone searching WP under those search parameters and being directed to Freemasonry would possibly be given the incorrect impression that those terms were legitimate subjects in that regard. Therefore I deleted as [[WP:CSD#A7]], noting - since they were redirects - that they were SPAM per the target article. If you want to argue the technicalities, then take it to [[WP:DRV]].
:::::::Also, and although it is very likely my poor communication skills rather than intent, there is a possibility that the ''tone'' of your last couple of remarks might be interpreted as not conveying an appreciation of good faith. I would suggest that it might be unfortunate if other readers also made the same mistake when interpreting those comments, so it may be helpful if you could review your language choices before pressing "Save page". [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 20:19, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
::::Less, would you please explain a bit more about why you think masonicinfo.com does not pass WP:SPAM, and what that means? We cite to it a fair amount in all the various Freemasonry articles, and it would be a real headache to find new citations. I can understand limiting it as being a self-published site (and thus unreliable in many situations), but am not clear on WP:SPAM. [[User:Blueboar|Blueboar]] ([[User talk:Blueboar|talk]]) 20:44, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::It is the circumstances of the redirect rather than a general evocation of [[WP:SPAM]], and the fact that it is a non-notable subject of itself being redirected to a clearly notable article; the only analogy I can quickly think up would be placing a link to the [[Anti Nazi League]] website (without context) on every article relating to historical Fascism - no matter that in this case it is a notable organisation, it would still be spamming if it was used out of correct context. However, it would be appropriate to link to the website if that is the source of information about the historical article subject. In this way a website can both be considered spam ''and'' a legitimate source.
:::::The difference in this case is that the websites are non-notable (there being no likely independent sources for verification purposes) and being used in such a way to possibly generate interest in themselves by their relationship to the article i.e. self advertising. To continue to use them as sources elsewhere in an appropriate context, however, is fine since the relationship is properly defined.
:::::I hope this helps. It may be a good time to remind people that Admins are editors who are trusted to use certain tools on the basis that their judgement is considered reasonable ''but not necessarily perfect/correct'' and based in good faith; sometimes it may be that a situation may not be resolved in exact accordance with a policy page (or six), but with a consideration of the principles held within those pages. This is an aspect of what I did here. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 21:14, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Thanks Less, that clears it up for me at least. [[User:Blueboar|Blueboar]] ([[User talk:Blueboar|talk]]) 21:23, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
::::::::I'm obviously not as sharp as Blueboar but I still don't understand. You know that I created these redirects, you know (or I hope you do) that I'm not connected to either sites. What have I missed? I ask this in all good faith, but how could this be the websites getting publicity for themselves? [[User:JASpencer|JASpencer]] ([[User talk:JASpencer|talk]]) 23:00, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::I am happy to make clear I had never considered the possibility of connecting you to the sites. I'm not sure how much more I can explain my decision - it is as inappropriate to redirect titles that belong to masonic critique websites to [[Freemasonry]] as it would be to redirect anti-Semite site names to Jewish articles, in that it potentially provides a spurious legitimacy that such an organisation might exploit (or people may believe it reflects). A redirect to [[Anti Masonic groups]] or [[Masonic conspiracies]] ''might'' be legitimate, providing those names are present in the content and there are links, but not the main Masonic articles. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 12:50, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
::::::::::I get it now. Sorry for being slow. That makes sense on freemasonrywatch which is anti-masonic. However masonicinfo is pro-Masonic, very much so. It also is not on the spam list and is used quite commonly as a site in Wikipedia and could be used as a legitimate search. Would it be OK if I recreate [[masonicinfo.com]] and [[masonicinfo]] as redirects to Freemasonry? [[User:JASpencer|JASpencer]] ([[User talk:JASpencer|talk]]) 17:00, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
::::::::::::I should think that MSJapan and Blueboar are better judges for that, as they have already had some experience of the site. They may have some other suggestion as to a more appropriate target. I am assuming that they have this page watched, but I will request their thoughts if there is no response within 24 hours. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 18:47, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
::::::Here is my take on the situation. My primary concern was with redirecting masonicinfo.com to the main [[Freemasonry]] article. That the redirect simply did not make sense. To my mind, the primary reason to redirect something is to aid users in finding the information they are searching for. Someone who enters "masonicinfo.com" as a search term on Wikipedia is not looking for general information on Freemasonry... he or she is looking for information on a specific website (or for information about its author/owner, Ed King). If we had an article for Ed King, I could understand redirecting the name of his website to that article (or vise-versa); if we had an umbrella article on "Masonic websites", I could see redirecting to ''that''... but I can not understand the logic of redirecting to [[Freemasonry]].
::::::My second concern is that this website is currently being re-evaluated as a source. Until recently, masonicinfo.com has been considered perfectly reliable by the members of the Freemasonry Project. It is a well regarded website that is often referred to and cited in various masonic blogs and forums. As such it has been used as a citation on many of the Freemasonry related articles. However, it has recently been questioned because it ''is'' the work of one man... and as such ''can'' be considered a personal self-published source. This has called all of these citations into question. Obviously this is of some concern to the members of the Freemasonry Project. The reason why I called this to your attention was that I found JASpencer's redirect in the midst of this re-evaluation to be inappropriate (and, quite frankly, a little suspicious).
::::::Finally, there is your interpretation of how WP:SPAM fits in. If masonicinfo.com ''isn't'' reliable, creating a redirect for it does give it legitimacy that it probably should not have. If it ''is'' reliable, then there is the possibility that someone may wish to create an article about it. In either case, redirecting was inappropriate. [[User:Blueboar|Blueboar]] ([[User talk:Blueboar|talk]]) 20:50, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Okay, so pending clarification of how reliable the site is as a source the redirect should stay deleted - if there is consensus to keep the source then a more appropriate target can be found (the article which most references the source?). If the source is found to be unreliable, then whether there should be any redirect from that site name can then be considered. Is this okay? [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 20:57, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
It's a reasonably extensive site that is linked to by many grand lodges not for scholarship or elegance but because it says what the grand lodge officials think but can not say. It may or may not meet notability, but that's not an issue for a redirect. And as far as it not being a search term, I'd disagree, and I would say that the burden of proof should not be on the redirect creator. [[User:JASpencer|JASpencer]] ([[User talk:JASpencer|talk]]) 21:26, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
:Well, there seems to be some debate on whether it is a single persons site (no matter if there are quotes from other individuals, it may still not be under any independent editorial review) but the main point is that any redirected name needs to target that article which is most germane; that '''''is''''' the responsibility of the creator, I suggest, and [[Freemasonry]] does not appear to be that article. I would also comment that it is nearly impossible to prove an absence, so it is not feasible to find evidence it is not a search criteria. As I argued previously, redirects are cheap and it is fine to use anything that <u>may reasonably</u> be a search parameter ''but'' it must point toward that article which is most relevant. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 21:37, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
::Masonicinfo is for information about Freemasonry. Unless there is an article on pro-Freemasonry apologetics there's no more suitable site for this redirect. [[User:JASpencer|JASpencer]] ([[User talk:JASpencer|talk]]) 21:49, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
:::Firstly, the site is non-notable so its own purpose is not sufficient for it to be redirected to the Freemasonry article. Secondly, it is not commented on or used as a reference in that article. It should be redirected to that article which most uses its content as a source - this will be Masonic related with a link to the main article. Analogy time...; the pretend site scottishterriers.com should point to the site which most uses it as a reference (such as [[Scottish Terriers]]) but not the [[Annoying rat featured canines]] main article - even if the site is run by an apologist for small ratty temperamentally unstable doggies.
:::::Masonicinfo.com may be for information about Freemasonry... but the Wikipedia article with the title "[[masonicinfo.com]]" (assuming one is ever written) should be about that ''website''. Perhaps I am missing something, but why does the name of this website need to be redirected ''at all''? What is wrong with leaving it '''un'''directed, ie without an article? That seems to be the most appropriate thing to me. [[User:Blueboar|Blueboar]] ([[User talk:Blueboar|talk]]) 02:27, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
::::::It's a legitimate search term, however I can't see how as an article it would get past [[WP:NOTABILITY]], at least at the moment. Redirects are cheap. [[User:JASpencer|JASpencer]] ([[User talk:JASpencer|talk]]) 06:04, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
To LHvU's point, [[List of Freemasons]] seems to use [[masonicinfo.com]] the most. I'm not sure it's the best fit with what the site is about, but it could be set up and to point there and it could be RfD'd if Blueboar still objects to it, and this particular redirect would be off your talk page. [[User:JASpencer|JASpencer]] ([[User talk:JASpencer|talk]]) 08:53, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
:As discussed in the Belgium Lodges matter, a redirect of a non-notable name to an umbrella article of some relevance is fine and I agree that JAS recreates the redirect to List of Freemasons, perhaps to the references section. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 09:00, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
::Done. Now that one's off your talk page. [[User:JASpencer|JASpencer]] ([[User talk:JASpencer|talk]]) 09:05, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
:::Not so fast... I find redirecting to [[List of Freemasons]] just as silly and inappropriate as redirecting to [[Freemasonry]]. Perhaps I don't understand the point of redirects in general, but I thought the whole point of redirecting a page title was to point readers towards the information they are looking for. The only reason why someone would search on the name "masonicinfo.com" in wikipedia is if they were looking for information '''''about''''' masonicinfo.com or Ed King. They are not going to find that information by being redirected to [[List of Freemasons]], any more than they would by being redirected to [[Freemasonry]]. Nor is someone who is looking for a list of Freemasons likely to use the term "masonicinfo.com" for their search. It just does not makes sense. To give you an example, redirecting masonicinfo.com to List of Freemasons would be like redirecting [[The Wall Street Journal]] to [[List of companies on the New York Stock Exchange]], simply because the WSJ reports stock market prices. It just does not make sense.
:::I still don't understand why we need to redirect this title ''at all'', but if we do, perhaps we should create a [[List of Masonic websites]] article or something. Redirecting to something like that I could at least understand.[[User:Blueboar|Blueboar]] ([[User talk:Blueboar|talk]]) 16:40, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
::::Blueboar, I agree with you about the list of Freemasons not being the most logical destination to my mind. However it is about going to the most useful article currently available. At the moment the most useful website for that searcher to my mind would be to the general Freemasonry article. If there were an article on [[Masonic apologetics]] then that would be better, [[Websites relating to freemasonry]] would be better still (although there may be problems with [[WP:NOT]]). [[User:JASpencer|JASpencer]] ([[User talk:JASpencer|talk]]) 18:08, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
::::Of course there's another website that would go to [[Anti-Masonry]] very easily. [[User:JASpencer|JASpencer]] ([[User talk:JASpencer|talk]]) 18:09, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
:::I disagree... I think the most ''useful'' thing for a potential reader would be to get a "no article exists" result. I think the most ''useful'' thing is to undo the redirect and not have it redirect to anything. I don't see any ''purpose'' behind redirecting this. [[User:Blueboar|Blueboar]] ([[User talk:Blueboar|talk]]) 22:13, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

== Help please re Image Licencing ==
Hi - sorry to bug you but I have just loaded up my first ever 3 images and have been hit by a bot telling me I need to provide some licence details. I've looked at the relevant pages but am hopelessly confused about what licence to use. The 3 images were provided to me by the son of the original owner [[Ted Blake]] (who is now dead) to be used in conjunction with documenting his father's personal history and that of trampolining. Any help gratefully received - please post reply here. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:DaveK@BTC|DaveK@BTC]] ([[User talk:DaveK@BTC|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/DaveK@BTC|contribs]]) 11:17, 16 September 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> Oops, sorry. [[User:DaveK@BTC|DaveK@BTC]] ([[User talk:DaveK@BTC|talk]]) 11:27, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
:I will take a look this evening (my time) as I am unfamiliar with image policy, and on what basis you are uploading the images. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 13:03, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
:: Cheers - my time too :-) [[User:DaveK@BTC|DaveK@BTC]] ([[User talk:DaveK@BTC|talk]]) 13:35, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
::::Sorry, "RLI|Real Life Intervened" - will look over this evening.... probably! ;~) [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 12:56, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
::::: Cheers, I've found another page that I thought might help answer but it didn't help although had a useful talk page that sems to be well-manned and I ''might'' get a response from them at [[Wikipedia talk:Image use policy]] so no panic,(I have a few weeks after all before image is deleted), enjoy some RL. [[User:DaveK@BTC|DaveK@BTC]] ([[User talk:DaveK@BTC|talk]]) 15:03, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

=={{User|76.125.140.46}}==
When this user's 1 week block ended he made the same edit again he kept making before his block. [[User:Mathewignash|Mathewignash]] ([[User talk:Mathewignash|talk]]) 00:26, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
:...and gone for another month. Cheers. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 13:00, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
::Thanks for the help. He made lots of edits in the past that were nonsense, and I had to revert them all, but he won't talk to me when I try to talk. He just changed her user name or uses an anonymous URL. [[User:Mathewignash|Mathewignash]] ([[User talk:Mathewignash|talk]]) 19:53, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

==Just So You Know==

Checkuser confirmed that Flemishboy was Bart Versieck:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Flemishboy

Sorry to inform.[[User:Ryoung122|<span style="color:green">Ryoung122</span>]] 00:58, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
:I saw, ta. I notice this time the block was not reset. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 13:01, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

== Abtract, Again ==

He is again breaking the agreement by editing a page he knows I edit, and showing that he is again continuing to stalk my contribs.[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Naruto_episodes&curid=2137845&action=history] Yes, it is a "good" edit, but it still goes against the agreement to stop bothering me. -- [[::User:Collectonian|<span style='font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color:#5342F'>Collectonian</span>]]&nbsp;([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]]&nbsp;'''·''' [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 23:18, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
:Blocked for 24 hours. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 23:28, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
::Re Abtract's complaint here[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Abtract&curid=4974450&diff=239741715&oldid=239740526], that edit he did a week ago was another he did right after mine doing his stalking thing and for which he was also warned. I would presume that if he violates the agreement and edits a page he knows I edit, that does not mean I'm suddenly banned from editing a page I've been editing previous just because he decided to break the agreement, right? -- [[::User:Collectonian|<span style='font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color:#5342F'>Collectonian</span>]]&nbsp;([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]]&nbsp;'''·''' [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 06:46, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
:::I'm still sorta wondering that for myself. Because I'm inadvertently editing dabs that Abtract touched, will I eventually be sanctioned? [[User:Sesshomaru|Lord Sesshomaru]] <small>([[User talk:Sesshomaru|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Sesshomaru|edits]])</small> 07:17, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
::::Reply to both, a review of this article indicates that it was substantially edited by C since April. As I responded to A, making one previous edit is both insufficient to claim ownership and it is for the disquiet engendered by that kind of previous edit that the restriction is in place. As you will both have noted in previous discussions, contributions to an article that had been historically edited by an ''"opposing"'' party but not recently is allowed - but it would be easier not to edit it any way. If you really feel the need to edit such an article and are in doubt, refer it to one of the supervising admins (spread it around a bit, I shouldn't be allowed to have all the fun) and if okayed refer to it in the edit summary. Specifically to S, it appears that you and A have an agreement not to report each other for minor transgressions - if you continue then fine, but if one reports the other then both editors contributions will be reviewed and I <u>suggest</u> that you both will '''''then''''' be subject to strict application of the restriction from then on (unless you again agree to let such matters slide). The idea behind the restriction is to limit interaction between the parties, and to avoid these problems. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 08:41, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
Perhaps I am still unclear on the nature of the prohibition. Abtract and Collectonian are prohibited from "interacting with, or, directly or indirectly, commenting on each other on any page in Wikipedia". Abtract's rv on [[List of Naruto episodes]] is neither. There is no mention of "bothering", and Collectonian acknowledges that this is a good edit (no quotation marks needed). -- [[User:JHunterJ|JHunterJ]] ([[User talk:JHunterJ|talk]]) 11:18, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
:While I am more inclined to working within the spirit of the restriction rather than the letter, I believe ''"...interacting with..."'' covers editing an article which has been substantially edited by another party to the restriction, and had not been previously regularly or substantially edited by the "transgressing" party. It formed much of the discussion regarding the interpretation of NCMvocalist's draft proposal, which has been since adopted. It has been made clear that Collectonian regards Abtracts presence on articles that is on her watchlist and sphere of editing interests as [[WP:STALK|stalking]], and Abtract should be aware of that even if he disagrees. I see no allowance per the restriction in Abtract either watchlisting the article or reviewing Collectonians recent editing history (although it cannot be proven that either happened), and no justification in editing the article where there are other WP editors who could have made the same edit. Whatever understanding Abtract and Sesshomaru may come to, Collectonian does not want Abtract editing articles in which she is involved and will use the restriction to ensure that it happens. This is the spirit of the restriction, a means to stop what one party considers harassment by the other. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 12:59, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
::I'd be wary of further fostering the idea of [[WP:OWN]], however. I thought both the spirit and the letter were aimed at the parties edits to another party's edits. I disagree that the spirit of the restriction is to stop "what one party considers harassment"; the spirit of the restriction is to stop the edit wars and incivility, neither of which were endangered by Abtract's revert of an uninvolved editor's edit. If one of the parties is intent on feeling harassed by that, I do not think it is in Wikipedia's interested to apply a salve there. -- [[User:JHunterJ|JHunterJ]] ([[User talk:JHunterJ|talk]]) 13:13, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
:::Isn't Collectonian prohibited from commenting in any way on Abtract's edits? [[User:DuncanHill|DuncanHill]] ([[User talk:DuncanHill|talk]]) 13:16, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
::::I am allowed to report transgressions to the agreement here. -- [[::User:Collectonian|<span style='font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color:#5342F'>Collectonian</span>]]&nbsp;([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]]&nbsp;'''·''' [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 16:01, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
:::[[WP:OWN]] does not apply with regard to a raft of articles where one editor wishes to stop one other from making insubstantial edits, but no restrictions on any other contributors - it is in the manner of a topic ban on one editor widely construed as related to the other accounts editing interests. The perception of harassment, and not the intent, has always been the crux of [[WP:HARASS]], so this is as much a valid concern as any other aspect. I suggest that we allow Natalya (and NCMvocalist?) to comment how they regard the restriction should be implemented. If we are still not in agreement, then I think we need consider taking the entire matter to ArbCom to see if and how they see fit to resolve this matter. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 13:36, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
:::It isn't an issue of ownership of articles. It is an issue of Abtract deliberately wikistalking my contribs to make minor edits to articles I edit for the sole purpose of annoying and harassing me. That has always been my issue with Abtract, and it has been stated multiple times he is to leave me alone. Continue to make edits to articles he knows I'm active on, usually right after me, is not leaving me alone. He has been doing this bull since May, and still is allowed numerous chances to just stop. This is very clearly covered in [[WP:STALK]] and a violation of the entire "no harassment" policy. Abtract knows this, he's acknowledged he was doing it, yet seems incapable of stopping himself from continuing to do it, and continuing to follow my contribs to find new ways to harass including false attempts to get me blocked.-- [[::User:Collectonian|<span style='font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color:#5342F'>Collectonian</span>]]&nbsp;([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]]&nbsp;'''·''' [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 16:01, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
::::"attempts to get me blocked"...not to sound mean or anything, but is Abstract somehow controlling your mind to make you do things that would get you blocked? Come on. If you feel Abstract is being a tool, you bring the problem to an admin, as you have done here. That said, some of your postes since coming here are full of a lot of bad faith that creates more problems than it resolves. Its better to take the high road, remain above the fray, and not end up in a SPADE argument. You know this, Coll. Cool down. [[User:Arcayne|<span style="color:black">'''Arcayne'''</span>]] [[User talk:Arcayne|<small><span style="color:gray">(<sup>'''cast a spell'''</sup>)</span></small>]] 16:30, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::Um, yes, he has, making unfounded 3RR reports in issues he wasn't involved in, but only watched my contribs and did a report after the issue was already solved. And sorry, but you get stalked for half a year, see how much good faith you have in your stalker. Would you tell that to someone getting stalked in real life? -- [[::User:Collectonian|<span style='font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color:#5342F'>Collectonian</span>]]&nbsp;([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]]&nbsp;'''·''' [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 16:33, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
::::You're calling an edit both "good" and "annoying and harassing". I do not understand why you are annoyed or harassed by "good" edits, even if they were made by an editor you don't like. -- [[User:JHunterJ|JHunterJ]] ([[User talk:JHunterJ|talk]]) 16:50, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
:::This isn't the real world, Collectonian. However, were it the real world, you don't confront the stalker, you head to the authorities, report them and stand back, eat popcorn and watch the ensuing fireworks. Badmouthing them does nothing to allow the personality conflct to fade off into the aether. I am sure you watch Abstract's edit history as well, and wouldn't hesitate to report them if you noted a violation of the rules. Neither one of you are the sheriff of the other, and until you both recognize this, your time editing is going to be less than enjoyable, and far more combative than it needs to be. Note that I am not slapping you around; I know you feel entitled to be upset, but it helps everyone, including yourself, to remain level-headed and removed from the dispute. I've learned that the hard way. - [[User:Arcayne|<span style="color:black">'''Arcayne'''</span>]] [[User talk:Arcayne|<small><span style="color:gray">(<sup>'''cast a spell'''</sup>)</span></small>]] 16:44, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
::::Sorry, but it sure seems like you are "slapping me around" and basically telling me to put up with it or go away. I did head to the authorities, aka the administrators, but as I noted when this agreement was made his actions not only violate Wikipedia's policies, but they also violate real-life anti-stalking laws. And sorry, but no, I do not watch his edit history at all. Unlike him, I don't feel the need to stalk just to be annoying or attempt to cause trouble. When he leaves me the hell alone and stops the stalking, the issue will be resolved. But as long as some admins and users support his "right" to act in such a fashion, he will never stop. -- [[::User:Collectonian|<span style='font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color:#5342F'>Collectonian</span>]]&nbsp;([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]]&nbsp;'''·''' [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 18:43, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::And if you are not blocked for that blatant personal attack (declaring another editor to be insane and accusing him of criminal activity) I will be very surprised. [[User:DuncanHill|DuncanHill]] ([[User talk:DuncanHill|talk]]) 18:56, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
::::::You do not get blocked for a single personal attack, nor do I consider it to be one. That wasn't an accusation, it was a statement about his actions, no him. I struck the rest, though I feel its a valid question. See worse at AN/I, but of course no one gets blocked there for that. Funny how that works...and of course, I'm sure Abtract is laughing like crazy that folks are flocking to his defense yet again. Its how he got off from an indef block before, and how he will continue to be allowed to do this sort of thing to anyone who he decides to harass out of petty revenge (by his own admission, he is doing all this over the "bitch" episode because he thinks I own him an apology for something that happen in May, so thats not a personal attack).-- [[::User:Collectonian|<span style='font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color:#5342F'>Collectonian</span>]]&nbsp;([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]]&nbsp;'''·''' [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 19:02, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::::I'm sorry, I was under the impression that you were meant to refrain from commenting on him. Reporting a perceived breach of the conditions is one thing, but to follow it up in the way you have is quite another. Is that your understanding of the agreement? That he gets blocked for repairing an article and you get to attack his motives and sanity? [[User:DuncanHill|DuncanHill]] ([[User talk:DuncanHill|talk]]) 19:08, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
::::::::By my understanding, he is not supposed to edit any article I have edited within the last 50 contribs, period, and it doesn't matter if the edit is legitimate or not. He's supposed to stay away and he is not supposed to check my contribs to find articles to com behind me on. And I wouldn't have said anything more if people hadn't decided to attack me for reporting his transgression, as per the agreement. As for his motives, that is not an attack, he has admitted it before in several of the previous AN/Is on him. He has no interest in anime, and only makes those edits because he came behind me (and at times Sesshomaru) to find pages we edited. He himself admitted more than once that he WAS stalking us. Again, how is that an insult? Its a statement of fact confirmed by him. -- [[::User:Collectonian|<span style='font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color:#5342F'>Collectonian</span>]]&nbsp;([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]]&nbsp;'''·''' [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 19:18, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::The 50 contribs came up in discussion but was not incorporated into the [[User talk:LessHeard vanU/archive#Restrictions|restrictions]] imposed. The restrictions as imposed were as I quoted above, "interacting with, or, directly or indirectly, commenting on each other on any page in Wikipedia." Since his edit did not interact with you (your edits) or comment on you, I do not see a violation. The ambiguity there, if there is one, may warrant the inclusion of one of the suggested clarifying pieces (such as checking the edit history). -- [[User:JHunterJ|JHunterJ]] ([[User talk:JHunterJ|talk]]) 21:34, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

:::(''edit conflict'') And LessHeard, was the edit actually a violation pf the prohibition? I see Duncan's point that it creates a situation that reinforces an OWN opinion; Collectonian is the only editor of the two that gets to edit in a given article? That hardly seems fair. I think that perhaps the block should at least be admin reviewed, since the edit supporting the block was both a good edit as well as an edit not contraverting Collectionian's. If an uninvolved person can wonder if it si a good block, and not a punitive, subjective one, noticeboard review would appear to be a good step in this matter between two editors at odds. Just my opinion, though. - [[User:Arcayne|<span style="color:black">'''Arcayne'''</span>]] [[User talk:Arcayne|<small><span style="color:gray">(<sup>'''cast a spell'''</sup>)</span></small>]] 16:44, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

::::It was a good edit - repairing damage to an article. It did not in any way alter anything that Collectonian had inserted into the article (as far as I can see), and it is not, in my opinion, supportive of Collectonian's claim of "stalking my contributions". I appreciate that there is a long and difficult history between the editors in question, and that keeping them apart is likely to benefit them both, but a block for an edit which repairs damage is troublesome to me. [[User:DuncanHill|DuncanHill]] ([[User talk:DuncanHill|talk]]) 18:54, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

:::::An erstwhile good edit can be harassing, and can otherwise lead to sanction. I could ''correct'' the spelling mistakes in Arcaynes post, and then go and review Arcaynes recent contributions and correct any further "mistakes" I find. If I found them in article space then I am correct to do so, and within ''my'' talkpage I might be found to be acting reasonably... but in other spaces it might be considered as breaching etiquette. If I were to continue to do this, arguing that there is no policy that specifically disallows these edits (and I am improving the encyclopedia)), Arcayne may start to feel uncomfortable - ''especially if they were the only account (or one of a few) being so corrected''. Only the other day another matter in which I was involved resulted in an editor being blocked for 3 months for continually editing other peoples talkpage contributions as regard their posting times and errors in formatting and spelling. Nothing major, and arguably technically valid, but with a detrimental effect to other editors.
:::::In this matter, the regularity in which Abtract appears on articles that Collectonian has recently edited but had not previously edited himself (and especially when contrasted with the frequency this happens with other editors) has promoted some feelings of disquiet with Collectonian. It might be considered irrelevant as to the effect of the edit to the article when placed against Collectonians discomfort, and some people may consider withdrawing from such interactions especially in light of the minor nature of the edit. Again, I would comment that Collectonian makes no such request of other editors contributing to these articles, so it is not a case of [[WP:OWN]].
:::::As is obvious, I have a viewpoint in this matter. I was the sysop who originally blocked Abtract indefinitely, and then unblocked/reblocked to a finite period following an appeal. It was because of this previous history that Collectonian (and Sesshomaru - I forget if it was Abtract or another matter in which we first interacted) have subsequently requested my help. It is also because of this potential COI/bias that I requested a third party ({{User|Ncmvocalist}}) develop a process to try resolve these issues, not once but twice. The first was stillborn as one party (Collectonian) would not sign up to a voluntary code; which is why the second was agreed to be imposed on the parties. I consider I have acted, as far as I am capable, impartially. Was my block an over reaction? I think not, but recognise that other people may consider it so. Have my actions been good faith attempts to resolve the issues? Damn right they have.
:::::I am concerned, however, that these efforts from many parties are not effecting the desired results. There is still discord, disquiet and dispute over the goals that the restrictions were meant to resolve. I am going to request that the other supervising admin review recent comments here, and give their opinion on these matters. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 23:57, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
=== not quite arbitrary section break/Natalya's comments ===
::::::I know in the long discussion of how these measures would work, we talked about different ways of allowing the parties to edit pages - either, not to be able to edit pages at all that the other party had edited in the recent past, or only being able to edit said articles in a totally unrelated fashion. While [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Naruto_episodes&diff=239666764&oldid=239662735 Abtract's edit] that seemed to spawn this rediscussion does not seem harmful, without making clear exactly what editing is allowed, it is hard to say whether the edit was allowed or not.
::::::Since (sadly) the "editing pages the others have been editing only in a totally unrelated fashion" does not seem to work, I offer up the following two suggestions for how to make the editing guidelines explicitly clear, which I thinks is necessary:
::::::*The parties may not edit, '''at all''', any page that the other party has been involved in editing recently (if we have to explicity define 'recently' also, we can, but if we don't have to, that would be lovely).
::::::*The parties may only edit a page that the other party has been involved in editing recently if that edit falls under the [[Wikipedia:3RR#Exceptions|exceptions to 3RR violations]]. (as these edits are pretty much as non-controversial as one can get)
::::::-- [[User:Natalya|Nataly<font color="green">a</font>]] 00:18, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
*I could support the first, as I believe Collectonian will agree. The second leaves open a case of wikistalking accusations when an editor reverts a number of vandal edits which happens to be also on one of the ''"other sides"'' most recently edited listing. <s>nb. I am unblocking Abtract so that they may comment here - as well as there being no consensus for the block.</s><small> (Block had already expired... [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 00:36, 21 September 2008 (UTC))</small>[[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 00:31, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
**Yes, I agree on the first, its what I thought the agreement already included. The second, I share Less' concerns. It leaves an opening to ignore the first under the guise of making "good" edits. -- [[::User:Collectonian|<span style='font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color:#5342F'>Collectonian</span>]]&nbsp;([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]]&nbsp;'''·''' [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 00:37, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

It still seems to me that you are missing the point ... vague words will not work; what is needed is something precise and clear. My previous suggestion still seems good to me

*'''Objective'''. This set of remedies is designed to encourage and enable [[User:Abtract|Abtract]], [[User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] and [[User:Sesshomaru|Sesshomaru]] to use their talents constructively within the Wikipedia community without harmful interaction between them.
*'''Method'''. Interaction will be prohibited on certain topic pages and limited by time on others. On all pages, reverting or partial reverting by one of the other is prohibited.
*'''Applicable to Abtract'''. Abtract must not edit any disambiguaton page (of all types) and SIA starting with the letters N - Z; articles on topics closely associated with manga, anime, meerkats, films / movies and the United States; or any article where Collectonian or Sesshomaru had made one of the previous 50 edits within the last week; or any talk page thread which has been entered by Collectonian or Sesshomaru; or in any way which reverts or partially reverts a recent edit by Collectionan or Sesshomaru.
*'''Applicable to Collectonian and Seshomaru'''. Collectonian and Sesshomaru must not edit any disambiguation page (of all types) and SIA starting with the letters A - M; or any page on topics closely associated with card games / board games, physics / maths / science, Enid Blighton and the United Kingdom or any article where Abtract had made one of the previous 50 edits within the last week; or any talk page thread which has been entered by Abtract; or in any way which reverts or partially reverts a recent edit by Abtract.
*'''Applicable to all three parties'''. All three users are already aware of the Bold, Revert, Discuss cycle, and must adhere to it in future, particularly where the other is concerned. Access to personal talk pages to be by invitation only.
*'''Supervisers/enforcement'''. [[User:JHunterJ]], [[User:LessHeard vanU]] and [[User:Natalya]] will supervise and have complete discretionary powers to advise, caution or block for up to 7 days; blocks of longer duration to be decided by at least two supervisors but hopefully this will not prove necessary.
*'''Duration'''. This set of remedies will be reviewed by the three supervisors (the three participants may comment only) in six months time with a view to relaxation. In any event it will cease automatically in 12 months.
I would add two extra clauses, one that allowed any two editors to revise the restrictions '''between them''' if they feel it would be to their mutual advantage; and one that allowed interaction on [[mos:dab]] and related pages. [[User:Abtract|Abtract]] ([[User talk:Abtract|talk]]) 06:50, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

:First of all, LessHeard, I am sorry if you thought I was questioning your neutrality - I was not. I was suggesting that maybe you should get the matter reviewed (because the edit seemed harmless enough), which apparently, you had already embarked upon doing before I even suggested it. So, thanks for reading my mind, and now, you can get the hell out of my brain! LOL.
:Secondy, I looked back over my interactions with Abstract and Sesshomaru, and while Abstract can be a large-sized pain in the ass at times, he does offer some good contributions. The same can be said for Collectionian - not the pain in te ass thing, but instead a thinner skin in an environment where rhino-hide or at least SPF is called for. I di ''not'' see Abstract's behavior as criminal or stalk-y, and I think its theatrics to call it that. Abstract doesn't get along with people and sometimes edit-wars - the same could be said for practically everyone in the project - ''all'' present company included. Does that excuse Abstract's being a [[WP:DICK|dick]]? Of course not. If that's all anyone took away from my earlier post, I would suggest they read it again, and not just use the time I'm posting to think up a rebuttal.
:I think both of the two alternatives suggested by Natalya are well-intentioned, but both are not in keeping with the spirit of Wikipedia. While Abstract has offered something similar (I sometimes wonder if he is constructing an elaborate practical joke, but the post seems genuine), it is going to become a math project, and I am guessing there are few admins who are going to want to monitor Abstract all the time; they have better things to do. As well, both plans create a dangerous precedent of allowing one user in one area and not in another. While this has been used before, its only for ''very'' special cases of ''severe'' abuse. It's like using Mjolnir to swat a fly. - [[User:Arcayne|<span style="color:black">'''Arcayne'''</span>]] [[User talk:Arcayne|<small><span style="color:gray">(<sup>'''cast a spell'''</sup>)</span></small>]] 07:10, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

::So why not just leave us alone to get on with things? ... look back and ask yourselves "what is the actual problem?". If there is a problem right now, I don't see it ... Sess and I can get along I am sure (maybe the odd mismatch of views but hey this is real people we are discussing) and I haven't "interacted" with Coll for ages (I haven't even mentioned her intransigence over the bitch episode for a long time) and don't intend to do so again ... persuade her to be less vindictive and to stop worrying about minor edits in articles she owns and we will all be happy bunnies without the need for restrictions. [[User:Abtract|Abtract]] ([[User talk:Abtract|talk]]) 09:09, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

:::We can't seem to leave things alone because problems keep getting brought up when we do. Arcayne, you bring up some good points. I feel like the objective of these requirements are to still allow all parties to continue editing. Perhaps, however, it would be better to get community input, since many heads are better than a few. Any thoughts on bringing it up at [[WP:AN]]? I know there's a lot of backstory, but we may be too involved now to make good decisions. -- [[User:Natalya|Nataly<font color="green">a</font>]] 12:41, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

::::OK why not try this ... give us simple instructions like "Don't revert each other, assume good faith by each other, and only report real issues ... then check how it's going in a month. I'm sure we can all act like adults and manage to edit within the spirit of that for a month. Sess and I understand each other's differing views on dab editing, sadly Coll does not seem to understand my feeling of hurt at her treatment of me in the bitch episode, but I understand her desire to not have interactions with me. Let's give it a go with no official restrictions but a genuine attempt to make it work. I'm willing if they are ... [[User:Abtract|Abtract]] ([[User talk:Abtract|talk]]) 13:12, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

::::Sorry, but no, Abtract's new "idea" is never going to work. Been tried, multiple times and he never sticks to it. I want the stalking to stop. I want him to stay away from him. Is AN "higher" than AN/I? If so, I'm fine with a thread there. An RfC/U hasn't stopped it, nor have the 3-4 AN/I threads, nor all the blocks (which came from multiple admins and multiple admins have agreed he was stalking, Arcayne, as did Abtract himself so how is it "theatrics"). It seems Abtract has no intention of sticking to the official restrictions here as he now wants to get out of them yet again. -- [[::User:Collectonian|<span style='font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color:#5342F'>Collectonian</span>]]&nbsp;([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]]&nbsp;'''·''' [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 16:25, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

:::::Well actually it's Sess who wants to get out of it not me, I am just trying to be helpful. And just to remind everyone that Sess and Coll were critised as much as I was at the rfc. [[User:Abtract|Abtract]] ([[User talk:Abtract|talk]]) 16:29, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

::::::Primarily by new users, and it was not repeated in the multiple AN/Is, which is why YOU were blocked. If you want to "be helpful" you'd quit acting like this and would have just left me alone months ago instead of continuing to do this stuff over and over again. -- [[::User:Collectonian|<span style='font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color:#5342F'>Collectonian</span>]]&nbsp;([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]]&nbsp;'''·''' [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 16:48, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

:::::::What exactly have I done that upsets you so much? It would be helpful to me if you compared the level of hurt you believe I have caused you with that which you caused me [[User talk:Abtract/archive 5#A bitch of a warning|here]]. You may also like to compare your many personal attacks on me with the absence of such from me. You want to take it further, bring it on dear. [[User:Abtract|Abtract]] ([[User talk:Abtract|talk]]) 17:00, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

::::::::If you can't understand how being stalked and harassed for months on end is "upsetting" nothing I can say will make a difference. Nor, do I think you actually care. You obviously get some sort of pleasure out of all this, and continuing to proclaim I caused you some hurt over that episode and that it somehow justifies your actions is just plain ridiculous. That's always your excuse, that you are "hurt" over that and somehow it makes it okay to cause me months of stress, anxiety, and even fear (yes, enjoy knowing you did that too). And yes, you have made personal attacks, you just like to wrap them in false politeness. And that's all I'm saying to you. I don't want to deal with you, talk with you, see you on my watchlist. I want to forget you exist, period. -- [[::User:Collectonian|<span style='font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color:#5342F'>Collectonian</span>]]&nbsp;([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]]&nbsp;'''·''' [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 17:01, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

::::::::::And that is absolutely typical of your attitude throughout this sad little affair ... poor little you has done nothing wrong despite the evidence to the contrary ... being heavily critisised by others is not enough. Your many vicious attacks on me have been quite unfounded. I pity you dear. [[User:Abtract|Abtract]] ([[User talk:Abtract|talk]]) 17:54, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

:::::::::::Sorry, but no, I haven't done anything wrong (and funny how you pretend you haven't done anything wrong either). Nor have I been "heavily criticized" by anyone, nor was I blocked multiple times over this "sad little affair" that you started and you keep going, nor have I made any unfounded "vicious attacks." But whatever, I'll await to hear from our admins here as to whether we're going to AN, or will try a better worded set of restrictions. -- [[::User:Collectonian|<span style='font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color:#5342F'>Collectonian</span>]]&nbsp;([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]]&nbsp;'''·''' [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 18:10, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

:(''outdenting'') Okay, that will quite enough from the both of you. Collectonoian, I am not sure why you feel that Abstract's choosing to edit in articles is a stalking of you. Consider for the briefest of moments that you are reading far, far too much into Abstracts posts. I agree that his smarter than thu attitude makes me want to pimp slap him, but that might be part of his personality, which can no more change than you can alter your gender or belief system. Continuing to attack him, as you are doing here, is unacceptable, If you cannot restrain yourself, I will file the ANI for personal attacks on you myself.
:That said, Abstract, it is clear that Collectonian is on a slow and unremitting burn about you, so perhaps you can take that Big Bag of Clever and find someplace else in this great big wiki-en where she is not. You seem to have a lot of interests outside the [[Venn diagram]] of those you share with Collectonian. Her behavior has been completely dramatic and unacceptable here, but it is clear that her usually equanimous demeanor was distorubed by your likely intentionally sly edits in an article she hangs out in. My advice is to stay the heck away from her, and she shall have no behavior of yours with which to rush off to an admin and complain about. We are none of us perfect, and you need to learn to count yourself among that number. Arrogance is often a very poor tact to take here in Wikipedia, as intentions are very hard to read otherwise.
:Natalya, I am not sure ANI is appropriate here, at least for us to get involved in. If Collectonian is only going to be satisfied by Abstract's blood, let her file it and reap the consequences of her own behavior here. If Abstract is willing to simply stay the hell away from Collectonian, and Collectonian does the same for Abstract, the problem between them is resolved, I think. ANI in situations like this are only going to result in one or both individuals getting blocked, and our time is better spent elsewhere. I am sure the fireworks and the Drama would be entertaining, but we have better things to do than be used as proxy participants in their unresolvable conflict. Collectonian wants Abstract banned; that much is clear. Abstract is bargaining. Unless they are willing to simply avoid each other, nothing we do, short of banning is going to do the slightest bit of good. The ball is in their court; I don't know about you, but if they cannot agree to even that, AN/I isn't going to have any better solution that doesn't cost us one or both editors. - [[User:Arcayne|<span style="color:black">'''Arcayne'''</span>]] [[User talk:Arcayne|<small><span style="color:gray">(<sup>'''cast a spell'''</sup>)</span></small>]] 20:21, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
::He himself admitted he was wikistalking months ago, and he continues to do it. Please don't imply I'm making it up or imaging it. You, of all people, should know he does this as you certified the original RfC/U against him which included links to his multiple admissions that he does it.[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Collectonian&diff=prev&oldid=213831432][http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Collectonian&diff=prev&oldid=213831432][http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Matilda&diff=214484092&oldid=214473695] Frankly I don't care if he is banned or not. As long as he leaves me alone, I don't care if he edits elsewhere as long as he just stays the hell away from me. I already avoid him, he is the one who follows me, and only him. When he popped up in an article I edit, usually soon after I've edited, I reported it per the agreement. Alas, no one said I would get attacked for being too "dramatic" for doing what the agreement said, letting someone know when one violated it. -- [[::User:Collectonian|<span style='font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color:#5342F'>Collectonian</span>]]&nbsp;([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]]&nbsp;'''·''' [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 20:35, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
*This is why I support Natalya's first option, in particular regard to Abtract and Collectonian;<blockquote>''The parties may not edit, '''at all''', any page that the other party has been involved in editing recently...''</blockquote>with perhaps 50 edits/two weeks being the definition. It stops them coming into contact. If Abtract and Sesshomaru want to work informally to Abtracts formula (and Collectonian notes Abtracts areas of interests), then it simply means they don't report each other. The original restriction remains, with Natalya's new wording, so that any future disagreement can be resolved back to those principles (it may avoid a party trying to redefine what the informal agreement means). Also, I don't see any reason for a time limit - if it works it stays. As regards being thin skinned (or not) I might not have looked recently but I'm pretty sure this is the encyclopedia that anyone can edit, and not those with particular [[epidermis]] qualities. I think this is what we are aiming for.

As regards bringing this to a wider review, I think there have been various postings to the admin boards in the past and what we are doing here is the result of that; I don't see what taking it back yet again will achieve. If we can't sort it here, then I think we are left with [[WP:RfAR]] - since this is exactly what that body was created for. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 21:21, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

:Yes, let's try that([[WP:RfAR]]). [[User:Abtract|Abtract]] ([[User talk:Abtract|talk]]) 21:59, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
::Which, RfAR or Natalya's rewording/informal agreement between you and Sess? [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 22:07, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
::I'm good to go with with the new wording added, and with the 50 edits and/or two weeks being the guideline. To confirm, that would mean if an edit was done in either the last 50 edits or within 2 weeks (i.e. more than 50 have been done recently so check back 2 weeks worth of edits), right? I wonder if its considered "thin skinned" that you can see most of my major veins and trace them from neck to foot. :P -- [[::User:Collectonian|<span style='font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color:#5342F'>Collectonian</span>]]&nbsp;([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]]&nbsp;'''·''' [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 23:53, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
:::That would make your skin translucent. Thin-skinned referred to the increased likelihood to take umbrage at a statement. The plan seems reasonable. I hope it works. :) - [[User:Arcayne|<span style="color:black">'''Arcayne'''</span>]] [[User talk:Arcayne|<small><span style="color:gray">(<sup>'''cast a spell'''</sup>)</span></small>]] 03:50, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
::::I know, I was being a little facetious :) -- [[::User:Collectonian|<span style='font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color:#5342F'>Collectonian</span>]]&nbsp;([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]]&nbsp;'''·''' [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 04:13, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::So was I (heh). - [[User:Arcayne|<span style="color:black">'''Arcayne'''</span>]] [[User talk:Arcayne|<small><span style="color:gray">(<sup>'''cast a spell'''</sup>)</span></small>]] 12:21, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
:::Would one need make an appointment? [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 12:26, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

== another inappropriate Freemasonry related redirect ==

Another inappropriate redirect by JASpencer: he created a redirect for "[[Preston-Webb]]" (redirecting to [[Masonic ritual and symbolism]]). In this case the problem is that the original term being redirected seems to be a conglomeration of the names of two seperate people [[William Preston (Freemason)|William Preston]] and [[Thomas Smith Webb]], either of which would be a better redirect target.... but we could argue for days about which one. [[User:Blueboar|Blueboar]] ([[User talk:Blueboar|talk]]) 19:35, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
:This was re-redirected before you typed this. After all you've only just created one of the articles. [[User:JASpencer|JASpencer]] ([[User talk:JASpencer|talk]]) 19:44, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
::First, while I did just create the article on Webb, the article on Preston has been around for a while (and was not started by me). Second, moving the redirect to [[Thomas Smith Webb]], while an improvement, it still leaves Preston out. Essentially, the underlying problem is that you should not have created the "Preston-Webb" article title to begin with. There is no "Preston-Webb"... there is Preston, and there is Webb. Now we are left trying to find an appropriate redirect for something that does not exist.
::Perhaps we could avoid these types of situations if, before you create an unneeded or incorrect redirect for everything and anything that might relate to Freemasonry, you ask someone who knows more about the subject. [[User:Blueboar|Blueboar]] ([[User talk:Blueboar|talk]]) 19:59, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
:::If you think that there's a better destination then do it yourself. If you think that a redirect is somehow inappropriate (and the exact article not being present isn't one of these) then raise an RfD. If you want to change the policy or think that I'm doing a load of rogue, out of policy, redirects go to [[WP:REDIRECT]]. However an admin's talk page is probably not the place to do this. I'm also prepared to accept an apology. [[User:JASpencer|JASpencer]] ([[User talk:JASpencer|talk]]) 20:10, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
::You miss my point... in this case, there isn't ANY good destination, and never will... because the article title "[[Preston-Webb]]" should never have been created in the first place. And since this isn't the only situation where you have made an error of this sort, I am not going to appologize for pointing that out that you are making errors in your redirects, nor for suggesting that in the future you seek a second opinion before you create new ones. [[User:Blueboar|Blueboar]] ([[User talk:Blueboar|talk]]) 20:37, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

== Freemasonry ==

{{IPuser|86.154.221.122}} may be of interest to you. [[User:DuncanHill|DuncanHill]] ([[User talk:DuncanHill|talk]]) 19:55, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
:Oh... joy! :~/ [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 22:58, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

== And more ==

[[Volume of Sacred Law]] should not be redirected to [[Masonic Ritual and Symbolism]]. It isn't a masonic symbol or part of the ritual. It is simply a non-denominational Masonic term for the Bible, the Torah, the Koran, or any other sacred text that is used at a meeting of Freemasons (which it is will depend on the makeup of the lodge). This could probably merit its own article, as there are numberous reliable sources that talk about it. [[User:Blueboar|Blueboar]] ([[User talk:Blueboar|talk]]) 21:30, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

[[Lions grasp]] - no such thing in Freemasonry. [[User:Blueboar|Blueboar]] ([[User talk:Blueboar|talk]]) 21:37, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

:re: Volume of Sacred Law... Give me some time, I'll create it for you. [[User:JASpencer|JASpencer]] ([[User talk:JASpencer|talk]]) 21:43, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
::Please do[[User:Blueboar|Blueboar]] ([[User talk:Blueboar|talk]])
:re: Lions Grasp... There's definately mention of it outside Wikipedia as one of the funny handshakes in the initiation ceremony. Not notable, but a legitimate search term. [[User:JASpencer|JASpencer]] ([[User talk:JASpencer|talk]]) 21:43, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
::Can you cite an example? [[User:Blueboar|Blueboar]] ([[User talk:Blueboar|talk]]) 21:48, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
:::If you want. Do remember I'm not claiming that it should be cited or created as an article. [[User:JASpencer|JASpencer]] ([[User talk:JASpencer|talk]]) 21:50, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
::::And here it is freemasonrywatch .org/diabolic_by_design.html (remove the space to get past the spam filter. [[User:JASpencer|JASpencer]] ([[User talk:JASpencer|talk]]) 21:59, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
OK... granted it is based on faulty information, but if the Anti-masonic sites are claiming it as a masonic handshake, then it is a legit search term. I withdraw this objection. [[User:Blueboar|Blueboar]] ([[User talk:Blueboar|talk]]) 22:03, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
:Thank you. [[User:JASpencer|JASpencer]] ([[User talk:JASpencer|talk]]) 22:06, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

:Personally I wouldn't withdraw the objection, the mention on a site which is banned in WP anyway doesn't suggest notability. What appears to be a personal quest to replicate FMWatch in Wikipedia does tend to lend undue weight to the material contained therein, particularly when much of it is poorly sourced and incorrect. using the argument above anyone could create a personal website, declaring pretty much whatever they wanted and someone would create an article or redirect about it. LHVUs talkpage probably isn't the place to discuss that though.
:[[User:ALR|ALR]] ([[User talk:ALR|talk]]) 23:35, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
::I'd just like to point out that the creation of new redirects to various Masonic articles is getting excessive. The newest are not things that are really valid search terms, and specifically for [[Masonic ritual and symbolism]] it is simply bringing terms not covered in the article into search relation so people can look for it, come to the article and see the RCC critique JASpencer added. Given that no work has been done on said article since it was created, I can only posit that that was JAS' intent all along. This is POV-pushing in the extreme, because all JAS is doing is adding Catholic criticism sections to other articles, when said criticism has an article all to itself. Furthermore, the critique is not relevant to the symbolism presented. I don't know whether to define this as bias, POV, undue weight, or all three and then some, but this is turning into a concerted campaign. [[User:MSJapan|MSJapan]] ([[User talk:MSJapan|talk]]) 22:22, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
:::Is there an ''X''fD (perhaps "Miscellaneous") that you may consider placing these redirects under for third party consideration? I support redirects generally, because "catching" search terms is something that aids the encyclopedia, but if there are concerns as to why search terms are pointed toward various articles/topics then it requires addressing. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 22:01, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
::::[[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion]] would be a good place to start. [[WP:AGF]] would also be a nice place for some people. [[User:JASpencer|JASpencer]] ([[User talk:JASpencer|talk]]) 22:10, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
:::::'''23 separate RfDs related to the same article and/or creator''' is a little past AGF. I left the few that were valid, and even then I had to fix them. [[User:MSJapan|MSJapan]] ([[User talk:MSJapan|talk]]) 05:01, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

==Can I say...==
as an editor of [[Solar System]] that HarryAlffa was making my life miserable, and the fact that no other admin was willing to see his behaviour as blockable was a sign to me that Wikipedia's disruption policy was broken. I had tried to remain civil and not to sink to his level. Ckatz, for months, attempted to stay above the fray and not block him, but eventually he was left with no choice. Judging from the fact his application for reinstatement was denied, it appears that admins are finally beginning to see things from our point of view. <b>[[User:Serendipodous|<font color="#00b">Serendi</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Serendipodous|<sup><font color="#b00">pod</font></sup>]]<font color="#00b">[[User talk: Serendipodous|ous]]</font></b> 10:42, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
:My concerns were over process, and not the genus of the complaint. Generally, WP uses an escalating scale of blocks which are initially measured in hours - this started as a week. I made my concerns known to Ckatz, whose response satisfied my qualms. Providing ''your'' POV is the neutral one, then it is fine (and so is clarifying it). [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 22:06, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

== An IP you blocked previously ==

I see you;ve blocked 68.195.25.27 before. I also see this user was reported to you directly by User:Peter Fleet a couple of weeks ago. This IP is the "action metal" genre troll IP. Any chance you can give him another vacation? Thanks. [[User:156.34.142.110|The Real Libs]]-[[User talk:Wiki libs|speak politely]] 22:24, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
:Thanks. I note that I previously blocked this account for block evasion. Looking over the edits I see that they are the usual genre editions, but need to know ''why'' you feel they need blocking. Are they again evading a block, or are they adding genres without discussion and against consensus? Cheers. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 12:39, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

==Red links at WP:AN==
[[Wikipedia:BUTTHEYDIDITTOO,ANDTHEYWEREN'TBLOCKED-IT'SNOTFAIR]] has been fixed. [[User:CambridgeBayWeather|CambridgeBayWeather]] [[User_talk:CambridgeBayWeather|Have a gorilla]] 00:44, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

: I tagged it {{tl|db-r3}}: redirect from implausible misnomer. (Hope I'm not spoiling anyone's fun! If this merits a reply, I'll see it here.) — [[User:Athaenara|Athaenara]] [[User talk:Athaenara| ✉ ]] 01:12, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

: ([[Wikipedia:Is not about winning|Wikipedia:BUTTHEYDIDITTOO,ANDTHEYWEREN'TBLOCKED-IT'SNOTFAIR]] would work.) <small>— [[User:Athaenara|Athaenara]] [[User talk:Athaenara| ✉ ]] 01:14, 24 September 2008 (UTC)</small>
::You ani't spolling my fun. As I said to RegentsPark, it's not the first one and I'm surprised that none ever got tagged before. [[User:CambridgeBayWeather|CambridgeBayWeather]] [[User_talk:CambridgeBayWeather|Have a gorilla]] 06:52, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

== Is this disruptive? ==

I'm trying to figure out if [[User:Ed Wood's Wig]]'s actions regarding ''The Clique'' novel series is disruptive or just annoying. I prodded the individual books in the series except the first one on September 7, feeling they all failed [[WP:BK]]. He immediately deprodded them all with the non-neutral (and incorrect) statement of "this is one of the most popular book series for young people in the united states. deletion is wrong." So I sent to [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Best Friends for Never|AfD]]. The AfD closed as a keep, with an opening to discuss merging the individual articles into the series page (a suggestion made during the AfD). So I started the merge discussion at [[Talk:The Clique series#Merges]], which he responded to with "We just had an AfD which did not result in a merge. Stop it already." When discussion died down and I noted that consensus seemed to support a merge, he disagreed again and demanded I "let it go". I requested a 30, and a new discussion is still going there, with him so far limiting his responses to claiming that "no actual need for a merge has been demonstrated".

On the 7th, he also attempted to create an article for the unpublished (and as far as the author's website says, unwritten)) next book in the series called P.S. I Loathe You maybe due in 2009. This was immediately CSDed as it was a recreation of an article deleted via [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P._S._I_Loathe_You|AfD]] (and for which several other versions of the name have been salted). Despite this and his [[Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2008 September 9|attempted DRV on September 9]] resulting in an endorsement of the deletion per [[WP:BK#Not yet published books]], he continues trying to link to it. There is pretty clear consensus on [[Template talk:Clique]] that a red, salted link does not belong in the template, but he has readded it 8 times so far, with the links removed by 3-4 different editors. The template ended up protected, and as soon as protection was lifted, he went back to adding it again. He is also continuing to try to add the link [[The Clique series]], claiming its valid under [[WP:CRYSTAL]] and pointing to the same "sources" rejected in the DRV.

It seems to me that he is determined to continue ignoring consensus and try to push the article existance and edit war over the links. And his continuing to try to push links to the article despite the AfD and DRV is becoming disruptive, with his edit summaries claiming its "inevitable." Thoughts? -- [[::User:Collectonian|<span style='font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color:#5342F'>Collectonian</span>]]&nbsp;([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]]&nbsp;'''·''' [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 01:39, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
:First, I would wait for the outcome of the 3O - the opinionator may have some suggestions. This editor does appear to be something of a [[WP:SPA]] (there are early edits which may not be in relation to the author or books, but I am not familiar with the subject) and is unwilling to accommodate other viewpoints. I suggest that you attempt to gain a consensus among other editors, possibly from a relevant Project, and edit to that. If Ed Wood's Wig continues to revert, then they can be treated as a disruptive editor. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 19:42, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

::Alrighty :) So far the discussion is getting, rather interesting, since it became more of a open discussion instead of 3O. Hopefully if consensus is to merge, he will accept that. On a totally different topic, how does one go about requesting IP range blocks? There is a kid who keeps vandalizing numerous Disney pages and talk pages who has been indef blocked under at least 7 user names, and at least 19 IPs from the same ISP. He's causing problems here and at Simple Wikipedia. I did an AN/I, and I think one of the ranges was blocked, but not the rest. Do I just do another AN/I or is there some other formal process for suggesting range blocks? -- [[::User:Collectonian|<span style='font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color:#5342F'>Collectonian</span>]]&nbsp;([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]]&nbsp;'''·''' [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 19:57, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
:::Re range blocks - what you need is an admin who is familiar with the stuff, since you have to understand the how many ip addresses will be effected and how many of them are contributing usefully to WP (i.e. collateral damage - this is not so difficult as was before, because ip's can request block exemption.) I would suggest you contact [[User:Alison]], who seems familiar with this work. She does get a lot of requests (she is also a CheckUser) so I suggest a polite request and a bit of patience. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 20:05, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
::::Great, thanks again! :) -- [[::User:Collectonian|<span style='font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color:#5342F'>Collectonian</span>]]&nbsp;([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]]&nbsp;'''·''' [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 20:13, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

==The Cure==
Hello, there's a edit problem on [[The Cure]] page with user {{User|WesleyDodds}}. I already had a issue with him for the same reason last may. I contacted you once at that time : here's the link to the post that I wrote you then.
[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:LessHeard_vanU&diff=prev&oldid=215500804#Conflict_on_The_Cure_page] So, after that, the issue was solved, until a few days ago.
To make it short about this story, I wrote a part on the cure'page in january. It has been accepted by all the people who read it as no one has erased it, (except from time to time Wesley Dodds). These days, this user has been started to constantly erasing it, judging he's now right and all the people who have read the page and have let this part, are wrong. But in this case, the issue should be clearly not to the benefit of the one and only opponent. Could you write him some words? I tried to explain it by inviting him to read the page [[WP:Own]] but he refuses to understand. Thank you in advance. [[User:Carliertwo|carliertwo]] ([[User talk:Carliertwo|talk]]) 17:40, 24 september 2008 (UTC)
:I think the magic word is "consensus". Try to find a few other voices and see who agrees with whom - and why. Once the facts rooted in policy are established, then that is the way the article should be edited. The best way to achieve this is via wide discussion on the talkpage. If this doesn't work then you may need to look at the various avenues for dispute resolution. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 19:55, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

== re [[User talk:Jamal15]] ==

It is only needed to advise an editor once that "their" article has been templated. Thanks. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU|talk]]) 19:42, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
:If only Twinkle did that automatically. Should I edit his talk page every time I have to re-csd? [[User:HalJor|HalJor]] ([[User talk:HalJor|talk]]) 19:45, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

== Request for feedback ==

I appreciate your input LessHeard (and your experience as a Wikipedian and admin) but my [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Crossthets&diff=241365825&oldid=241365710 complaint] is a still a work-in-progress and was not ready for submission yet. And to be frank, judging by your diff history you don't appear to be qualified enough on the historical/political issues involved to be claiming at this juncture it is my "interpretation of history".

(btw - Typed text has its limitations so I want to make crystal clear I don't mean to come across patronizing saying that. No doubt you know plenty of things I am ignorant about... especially Wikipedia rules... just not these particular issues)

As for the repeated charge of "POV pusher", it comes almost exclusively by Futper and FYROM nationalists. For any exceptions...perhaps at times where I have placing my comments is inappropriate to Wikipedia conventions (like on my user page) and for those times I sincerely apologize (mostly due to my ignorance). However, the vast majority of my beefs and facts are verifiable with a little effort (and if you can show otherwise please feel free to point out which fact is in error so I may remove it as necessary).

I do ignore Futper though (at least as an admin) but only because I have indepth knowledge of his offensive behavior (via his diffs) and the issues at hand. While I'll debate points with other admins (who aren't above being wrong either), I have shown a pattern of listening to them. When an admin suggested I shouldn't have made a large number of edits... I listened. When another admin suggested my user page was inappropriate for my comments I listened. And if you are now telling me my talk page also isn't appropriate for my current task at hand... I also accept your advice.

If you check my record you'll see Futper is the ONLY admin who keeps blocking me and his focus is on editing on many of the exact same articles I do (and issues with him is the reason I keep getting into trouble with other admins... including you). My [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Crossthets&diff=241365825&oldid=241365710 complaint-in-progress] on Futper is based on verifiable facts and diffs (some of which I've already provided). Futper diffs seem to show he constantly attacks Greek positions on a wide number of topics and on a daily basis. The chances of him doing so to one specific group with such great frequency on pure chance alone are bordering on slim to none. If that's not a conflict-of-interest for an admin I don't know what is. (and this is why I feel the political issues at hand need to be intermingled with the complaint to put his behavior into context)

Let's be realistic here Less. Futper is patrolling the fricken user page of a newb looking to find something to pick on to get rid of me. That has show to you something about where his mind is at. I tried to make peace with him after our first run in but apparently he can't stop involving himself with me. He's left me no choice but to respond.

I'd prefer if I had a page (any page) on Wikipedia to work with the formatting because I am going to write a long report to WI:AN for review. Could point me to a page where I would be free to do so within Wikipedia guidelines? (if such a page exists) It really doesn't matter where I do what I need to do here... that being contribute to Macedonia and Greece related articles free of Futper finding new ways to use his admin access to harass me (and I'm [[Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Future_Perfect_at_Sunrise#Civility | not the first to complain about Futper's incivility]]. Here's [[User_talk:GK1973#Future_Perfect_at_Sunrise | another ]]).

There is a great deal of hate and propaganda being directed at Greeks these days No doubt I am far from the first Wikipedian to claim persecution but in this instance it's not just me saying it. Last year the US Congress introduced [http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=hr110-356 a bill ] (co-sponsored by Obama in the Senate) condemning the FYROM government for '''hostile activities and propaganda against Greece'''. (And I can provide you first hand evidence of it so you can see it for yourself.... if you'll listen for long enough)

Any how... I guess you have a choice here Less. Pull admin rank and go on an angry tirade against me (Lecture? Level 5 warning? Block? Ban?) without spending a moment to review some of my very complex concerns... or consider actually listening to the other side of a dispute.

The former anger angle is extremely easy to do. You don't look irresponsible making your prior comments to me. You don't make an enemy of a fellow admin. You don't rock the boat. You essentially send me on my way. But.... it comes at the potential cost that you just contributed your little bit to spreading propaganda on Wikipedia in lew of your humanity. The latter comes at the cost of you just patiently spending a little time authentically wading through my points one-by-one with me.

I'm willing to work with you here. Are you willing to do the same with me? --[[User:Crossthets|Crossthets]] ([[User talk:Crossthets|talk]]) 07:08, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
:I don't see it as a case of us working together, I view it as an attack on another volunteer - which is not permitted - plus the placing of a particular viewpoint as regards the history and sovereignty of Greece as regards territorial claims by Macedonia. '''''If'''''' it is a work in progress, one which will lead to a [[Wikipedia:Requests for comment]], then I suggest you compile it off-Wiki and present in the complete format when you are ready. In short, if you do not use WP space to host your views regarding a certain admin or the contentious context of a territorial/cultural dispute while compiling some WP process then I have no need to interfere; I have <u>no</u> choice in the matter, my actions are regulated by my understanding of the rules, policy and guidelines of WP. As long as you abide by the practices and procedures of WP, then you are free to contribute to the project as you see fit.
:One other point, I really do not care to have my fitness to comment on matters of prejudice and cultural antagonism commented upon. My humanity with regard combating the evils of prejudice and ignorance in matters pertaining to differing histories of cultures, different languages and belief systems, different colour of skin and facial features, is well intact. I reject Greek xenophobia as I do any other nation or peoples or cultures or religions xenophobia - I treat it all with equal contempt. That is why I'm such a fucking wonderful liberal. [[User:LessHeard vanU|LessHeard vanU]] ([[User talk:LessHeard vanU#top|talk]]) 10:25, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

::I will do my edit offsites as you request. And being a "liberal" doesn't mean you are above potential prejudices. I don't appreciate you singling out Greeks for xenophobia. The remark was completely uncalled for(I am married to someone from Scotland incidentally.) Greeks can be discriminated against just like every other group of people. --[[Special:Contributions/209.161.238.156|209.161.238.156]] ([[User talk:209.161.238.156|talk]]) 15:03, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

==My RfA==
{|style="background-color: #E6E6FA; padding: 3px; border: 1px solid #888;"
|[[Image:Hurricane Kate (2003)- Good pic.jpg|100px]]
|style="background-color: #def; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #888;"|Thank you for supporting me in my RfA, which passed with a count of (154/3/2). I appreciate the community's trust in me, and I will do my best to be sure it won't regret handing me the mop. I am honored by your trust and your support. Again, thank you. &ndash;[[User:Juliancolton|Juliancolton]] [[User talk:Juliancolton|<font color="#66666"><sup>'''T'''ropical</sup></font>]] [[Special:contributions/Juliancolton|<font color="#66666"><sup>'''C'''yclone</sup></font>]] 19:50, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
|}

== AIV ==

Thanks. I've posted to ANI.. believe me I know I'm inviting a shitstorm upon my head. [[User:PrinceOfCanada|Prince of Canada]]<sup>[[User talk:PrinceOfCanada#top| t]] | [[Special:Contributions/PrinceOfCanada|c]]</sup> 21:31, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
:I understand I made a minor error there.. but deliberately flouting policy is why I made the ANI post. I understand that ''some'' latitude is given to some people, but [[WP:POINT]] is pretty clear. [[User:PrinceOfCanada|Prince of Canada]]<sup>[[User talk:PrinceOfCanada#top| t]] | [[Special:Contributions/PrinceOfCanada|c]]</sup> 22:00, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
::I do understand where you're coming from, and I know there are some exceptions... but that, to me, wasn't an exception. If he wanted the page to be better, he should simply have made the page better. Doing what he did was thumbing his nose at the community and nothing more. Oh well. [[User:PrinceOfCanada|Prince of Canada]]<sup>[[User talk:PrinceOfCanada#top| t]] | [[Special:Contributions/PrinceOfCanada|c]]</sup> 22:15, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

== Re: protocols of politeness ==

Editors complain about anything they can when it comes to being reverted. Some have even argued against my removal of uncited content despite the fact that I sometimes reference [[WP:OR]] and [[WP:VER]] in my edit summaries. I wouldn't worry about it though. Sooner or later they'll realize what I was conveying. If someone vandalizes or adds nonsense to a page, IMHO there isn't anything wrong with saying "rv vandalism" or "rv nonsense" in the edit summary. [[User:Sesshomaru|Lord Sesshomaru]] <small>([[User talk:Sesshomaru|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Sesshomaru|edits]])</small> 17:22, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Revision as of 01:02, 11 October 2008

For other people named Steven Taylor, see Steven Taylor (disambiguation).
Steven Taylor
Personal information
Full name Steven Vincent Taylor
Height 1.88 m (6 ft 2 in)
Position(s) Defender
Team information
Current team
 Newcastle United
Number 27
‡ National team caps and goals, correct as of 19:41, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Steven Vincent Taylor (born January 23, 1986 in Greenwich, London) is an English footballer, currently playing for Premier League club Newcastle United. He is a central defender who can also play at right back and is sometimes utilised as a left back.

Club career

Early career

Taylor had started playing football as a striker. In 1995, following injury-absence of defensive players, Taylor was forced to play as a centre-half, and following successful performances, was told that he would not be moving back to centre-forward.

Taylor moved to Wycombe Wanderers in December 2003 for a month-long loan deal in order to get first team experience. He made his league debut in Wycombe colours, in a 1–1 away draw against Notts County on December 13. He played a total of six games for the club in the loan period that lasted until January 11, 2004. He was a very popular player at Wycombe, having a large influence despite his youth and limited number of appearances.

2004-05

On March 25, Taylor finally made his debut for Newcastle, also his European debut. It came in the UEFA Cup 3–0 win against RCD Mallorca, when he replaced Andy O'Brien. The full debut, which was also the Premier League debut, followed soon, on March 28, against Bolton Wanderers at the Reebok Stadium. Taylor wears the number 27 shirt at Newcastle in recognition of Philippe Albert, a former Newcastle player, who also wore 27.

The start of the 2004–05 season was disappointing, as Taylor picked up an injury, and could not play for a long time. He eventually came back to play 22 games for the club, thus salvaging his season. He was also involved in a bizarre incident in a home game against Aston Villa in which he saved a Darius Vassell effort with his hand. Taylor grabbed his ribs in agony as he tried to con the referee into believing it had hit his torso. Not falling for it, he was sent off and the penalty was converted, however this was largely overshadowed by the Bowyer Dyer fight which happened in the same game. Because his dive has inconsequential (the game was beyond Newcastle as Dyer and Bowyer had been sent off), he achieved cult/comical status with Newcastle fans and many neutrals.

2005-06

Taylor suffered a serious shoulder injury training for the England Under 21's, of which he further aggravated against Liverpool on Boxing Day 2005. This injury kept him out for the rest of the season, with the defending being left to Titus Bramble, Jean-Alain Boumsong, Peter Ramage and Craig Moore. He did, however, make a substitute appearance in Alan Shearer's testimonial match on May 11. During the 2005 season, youth graduates Taylor and Ramage became fan favourites, due to the frequent mistakes and errors of the now departed pair, Bramble and Boumsong.

2006-07

Considered Taylor's breakthrough season, his first senior goal for the club came against Celta de Vigo on November 23, 2006 in the UEFA Cup. It turned out to be the winner in a 2–1 victory for Newcastle. He then scored his first Premiership goal for Newcastle in a 3-1 victory against Blackburn Rovers on 9 December, 2006, and began to play more regularly, making 12 starts for Newcastle in defence.

In the match versus Birmingham City, in the FA Cup on January 7, he was voted Man of the Match after grabbing Newcastle's equaliser, clearing off the line and giving an all round great performance. Taylor played in the replay against Birmingham on January 17, although he was sent off after fouling DJ Campbell.

Taylor's second league goal, the winner in Newcastle's 2-1 away win on Saturday 7 April, at Sheffield United. His powerful header proved to be the goal that helped Sheffield United be relegated. Taylor was called up the full England squad at the end of the season but did not come off the bench. He also made a senior appearance for the England B team.

2007-08

Taylor started the season in and out of the team under new manager, Sam Allardyce. Held responsible for the 3–1 defeat to Manchester City, he lost his place to new defenders David Rozehnal and Caçapa, before winning it back and forming a partnership with Abdoulaye Diagne-Faye in central defence after Allardyce's sacking and the appointment of Kevin Keegan. After an impressive season in which Taylor played 31 Premier League games, he signed a new three year contract worth £35,000 a week.[1]

International career

In November 2001, Taylor, playing in the England Under-16 team at the Walkers International Tournament, was adjudged Player of the Tournament. Following this, in July 2002, he signed his professional contract with Newcastle. That season he also made his debut for the club Reserve team. In March 2003, the England Under-17 team qualified for the European Championships, and in the match against Slovakia, Taylor scored his first two goals for England. He also played in 2003 FIFA World Youth Championship.

Following a good showing at the Under-20 World Championship at Dubai, Taylor made his England under-21 debut on February 17, in a 3-2 win over the Netherlands.

In June 2005 Taylor represented England Under-20 at the Toulon International Tournament, where England finished in third place. On September 6, 2005, he scored his first under-21 goal, against the German side. He also scored two goals against the Poland Under-21s in October 2005.

Taylor played a key role for England under-21s as they progressed to the semi-finals of the U21 Euro 2007. He missed the first match but played the other two group games and the semi-final where, after picking up an ankle injury just minutes before, he was unable to stop the Netherlands' late equaliser. After playing through extra-time with the injury, he was called upon to take part in the penalty shootout, and converted his spot-kick, although England exited the tournament after losing the shootout 13-12.

References

  1. ^ "New Magpies deal for Taylor". Sky Sports. 2008-07-04. Retrieved 2008-07-04. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help)

External links


Template:Persondata

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