Talk:Lists of Jews

The idea of this list is disgusting!

Why on earth do we need such an article! What good does listing people by their faith? An article of famous religous figures, ok, i could see the point. But most of these persons have nothing to do with Judaism. Or would you list George Lucas as a famous Christian? Why have the authors of these list this need to list jewish persons? A hidden Judophobia? And then these weird discussions about half- and quarter- Jews, terms I last heard in school when dealing with NAZI racial laws. Please, delete this article, 82.82.52.252 23:09, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I am proud to have contributed to this list. The more people who realise how much our Jewish brothers and sisters are contibuting to our well-being and enjoyment, the better. And anyone whom Hitler and the Nazis would have regarded as Jewish ought to be included.RachelBrown 20:44, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Why is this article so controversial? I don't see any objections on the talk pages of, say, List of Italians or List of Japanese people. Wouldn't those be just as "disgusting"? —Chowbok 16:16, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC)

The total extent of this list seems a bit unnecessary. The list of Muslims on the other hand seems to be more useful, pertaining to seemingly more important historical characters (caliphs and disciples). I don't see the need to list every single B-list (or even A-list) Jewish celebrity out there. The US has a large and successful Jewish population. Just not entirely sure Wikipedia needs to list every single one member of that population.

Also, one could look at it in an anti-semetic POV - and this argument was already had on the Adbusters article [1]. --EVApilot 23:40, 16 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Starting the list

Note to Wikipedia: This is a massive list of Jews I picked up from the top of my head. There are probabley much more, but these are the main influencial Jews that I can remember. You should probabley alphabetize this, and add those spiffy links.

Spelling/s

fixed erratic capitalization; changed Jesus from 'founder of Catholicism'<!> to 'namesake of Christianity'; changed description of Daniel Pearl's death from 'executed' to 'killed' and resisted changing 'killed' to 'murdered' (is there a consensus on this vocabulary? surely it must come up again and again!). Also more or less alphabetized. No doubt this will be a difficult page to maintain. Someone else

Do you feel there's any doubt that Pearl was murdered? "Killed" could imply anything, such as "killed in an auto accident."

No, I don't feel any doubt, but 'killed' is the neutral term. I suspect if I changed it to 'murdered' someone would change it back to executed, which wrongly implies legality. Which is why I asked for a consensus... Someone else Why is Daniel Pearl famous? The act was infamous, but in reality Pearl was perhaps a very good journalist but virtually unheard of prior to his execution. Too, why are the lists being made according to race like this or Blacks etc?.... DW

I hate these lists

Just a quick comment: I hate these lists! What purpose do they serve? I vote for a deletion. Danny

This was my reaction. I was tottering on the edge of voting for deletion, despite the apparent huge amount of work that went into it. It still gives me the screaming willies, but I can see a purpose for it. This page links to every Jew who has a wikipedia article. That implies at least mild fame of some sort. There are also other sources for this information. On the other hand, every wicked thing is justifiable. I would perhaps feel a little better if this article were deleted. --Daelin 07:07, 3 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

I second Danny's vote. This list is pointless and creepy. Delete. Puffy_jacket

I may be new here, but I would also like to voice objection to this list. It serves no useful purpose. If an entry on an individual states he or she is Jewish, that's one thing. But to create a list of Jews I feel is unnecessary at best and possibly discriminatory at worst. --Feitclub 19:03, Sep 4, 2004 (UTC)

I second -- err, fourth -- Danny's vote. This page could better be served by doing a search on the term "Jewish", or some such. Metahacker

If the information is true, I don't support deleting it. I fail to see what harm can be done by factual information. -Cow 19:32, 4 Sep 2004 (UTC)

The information is necessarily incomplete, and as the talk below shows, often wildly inaccurate. Would you support a list of people who are 5'9"? Such a list would be silly. Metahacker

maybe you want to move this to List of Influential Jews or Famous Jewish people.... The title seems to imply a degree of extensiveness that most people wouldnt want to deal with...-Stevert

I asked here: Wikipedia_talk:Naming_conventions - I got an answer. My view is that every people list on wikipedia is non-extensive, so it doesn't need to be specified. The other point is that people shouldn't be included purely on the basis of fame, but also on their historical significance, importance to the religion, etc. Martin

hmm... just clarifying... so including ibrahim among the separate lists of Jews, christians, and Muslims is within that scope - is what your saying. Hence the Inclusion of Eashoa as a Jewish figure, though he sorta broke with tradition... -Carifyin' Steve

I can't comment on Abraham, since I don't know a vast amount about him, but that's the general idea. Martin

Robert DeNiro???? I've enjoyed watching Mr. DeNiro play various ethinc/nationalities (Noodles Aaronson, Ace Rothstein), but I have never come across any biographical content stating that he has a Jewish mother. In fact, with regards to his ancestry, the latest debate is whether or not Mr. DeNiro is more Italian or Irish (based on his parental ancestry). -Bourbon_King

This is sick. What on earth is the point of a list like this? Are there Jews who feel so insecure they need to point out that Jewish people can be famous/successful/admirable too? Or racists who want to discredit these people? My respect for wikipedia has just diminished dramatically.

I don't have the honor of being a Jewish person, nor am I a racist, and I find this list entirely appropriate. With regard to racists, have you considered how many of them might happen upon this list and be surprised to discover that some of their favorite athletes, entertainers, etc., happen to be Jewish and they didn't even realize it? It might just do some good! Everytime I come to this talk page, I see more and more people suggesting that this list should be deleted, and I am not really understanding why that is. func(talk) 06:26, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Threat: If this page is deleted, I will start a list of nonJewish persons. Just kidding! Gzuckier 14:28, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Well, we do have Righteous Among the Nations. :) func(talk) 15:44, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Israeli politicians

Do the Israeli politicians really need to be there? I mean, I suppose it's possible that sometime in the distant future, it won't be obvious that an Israeli politician is Jewish, but I don't imagine anyone in 2003 is in doubt as to the ethnicity or religion of any PM of that country since 1948.

OT: Not all Israeli politicians are Jewish, although most of them obviously are. There are Arab (Christian / Muslim) members of the Knesset (Israeli Parliament) too.--Joeboy 15:22, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Entertainers

Also, should there be a distinction drawn between entertainers famous for being Jewish (it's their shtick, if you will), such as Woody Allen and those who just are, such as Lisa Kudrow?--Calieber 18:22, 9 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Splitting the list into subsections

What do you think about splitting this list into the following subsections: Science, Religion, Sports, Entertainment, Politics

This entry is terrible

What possible question can a reader have that could be answered with a list of all Christians, or all Jews, or all XYZians throughout history? There is no such question. Do we really want to make an entry that will grow to include millions of people, who have absolutely nothing in common at all except for the fact that they profess to be Christian (or Jewish, or Muslim, etc.)? There is no reasonable explanation for this entry to exist. Obviously, there are uses for meaningful lists, such as a list of Christian theologians, Christian philosophers, Jewish philosophers, etc. But what we have here is a joke. This is supposed to be an encyclopedia, not a phone book. I vote for deletion. RK

I agree. I contributed to the Losers in literature page because it may be useful as a research tool, and there are people railing against it. For them to not rail against this is hypocritical. -- Goatasaur 18:14 Feb 18, 2003 (UTC)

Niels Bohr was only half Jewish

Niels Bohr was only half-Jewish (mother). Aage was only 1/4. Jewish? I mean we might as well list Courtney Love

See talk:list of people by belief

Make list smaller

Perhaps this list could be made smaller and thus more useful - it's a little bit unhelpful to include Jesus with Disreil with Daniel Pearl. However, I don't think that it's ridiculous to have a list of truly important Jews, since that could be an important resource for someone reaserching, for instance, Jewish History.

-Alex S

I moved this back to List of Jews to be consistent with other lists of people by belief/ethnicity. Martin

I really agree the list needs needs to be cut down. If you call a page "List of Jews", naturally the people listed there should be Jews. The Jewishness of people like Max Baer Jr. and Nick Carter is remote in an ethnic sense and nonexistent in a religious sense. Nobody could reasonably call them Jews. Plus you have people like Orlando Bloom and Bernie Ecclestone who, to my knowledge, have not been confirmed as Jewish by any reputable source. An encyclopedia should contain facts, not unsubstantiated speculation. I have nothing against a list of famous Jewish people, as long as it is accurate.

--Aardvark114 06:02, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Bobby Fischer and Judophobia

How can Bobby Fischer belong to this list if he denies that he is a Jew and is known for his judophobia?

He is on the list because he is ethnically Jewish. See www.jewhoo.com for more than you'd like to know about Bobby Fischer.

- he has repeatedly said himself that he is not a jew. his father was a german and his mother was a non-religious christian american. according to *some* jews, his mother was 1/4 jewish. i guess that makes him a jew!! this is sick. even if his mother was jewish, which according to bobby fischer himself she was not, still that does not make hima jew because in addition to HATING jews and judaism, his father was clearly not a jew.

- - Actually, his biological father was possibly a Hungarian Jew (see http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/news/4535883.htm ). His mother was almost certainly Jewish. Clearly Bobby Fischer does not identify as Jewish, and is not Jewish in a religious sense. However, he is (at least partly) Jewish in ethnicity, and this may be worthy of note (just as it would be for an Arab-hater born to an Arab mother, or Russian-hater born to a Russian mother).

Yeah, I think that it would be valuable to identify an individual as 'partly Jewish by heritage', and also to note that (does not identify self as Jewish). Gzuckier 16:54, 28 Jul 2004 (UTC)

There's always the 'Nazi test'; if the Nazis would have considered you a Jew, then you are a Jew. (I'm approximately half kidding)Gzuckier 16:54, 28 Jul 2004 (UTC)

1/2 and 1/4 Jews

There are several people on this list that are 1/2 or 1/4 Jewish. Should the amount of their Jewishness (ethnic) be listed like in parenthesis after their description? Should they be removed? What is the consensus. ThereIsNoSteve 23:21, 23 Sep 2003 (UTC)

I think putting the "amount of jewishness" in the parenthesis would be a good idea. If we remove them there will always be someone who will argue that they are Jews. Bogdan 19:04, 9 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Whether or not a list of Jews is a good or reasonable idea -- and it certainly seems debatable (and I have contributed a number of names to this list) -- getting into "amount of Jewishness" on the basis of parentage is so similar to the Nazi conception of racial purity (and to the orthodox Jewish conception of Jewishness, which I find "racist" in its own way), that I think we would be getting into dangerous and unsupportable ground by doing so. Seems to me it's enough that a person is Jewish either because they decide they are, regardless of parentage or upbringing, or because they have enough ancestry or family background, whether it's all or some, to believe that their Jewish background affected who they were/are or how society responded to or defined them or how they responded to that response or definition. I think we'd be getting into big trouble if we end up arguing about who was more Jewish, Sammy Davis Jr., Proust, or Wittgenstein. Jeremy J. Shapiro 21:35, 9 Oct 2003 (UTC)

The last time I heard of "half-Jews" and Quarter-Jews was with the Nazi's who demanded from everyone to hold documentarty evidence about parentage and decided suitability fo rcivil service etc on this. Please remove such nonsense!!! Well actually - please remove the list. Refdoc 01:44, 24 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Im shocked. "Half jew", "quarter jew"! What are you thinking? Refdoc ist right, this sounds like Nazi Rassengesetze. Delete this list. 82.82.52.252 22:37, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Might be useful to the hypothetical information-seeker to find some reference to a) jewish by conversion, b) cases where only one parent is Jewish, and which parent (even if it's the father not the mother) and c) a general catchall for some lesser connection i.e. 'some Jewish ancestry on the mother's side' or some such. Trying to get really fine-grained ('father's mother's mother's father's father was Jewish') doesn't seem too potentially useful. Gzuckier 16:39, 28 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Heros or not

I think describing people as "heroes" is POV. Describing Ariel Sharon as a war hero is certainly POV. I'm going to make more neutral. Secretlondon 11:26, Nov 21, 2003 (UTC)

Describing someone as a hero is certainly POV. Describing someone as a "war hero" is much less so, if at all. Sharon, due to his wartime exploits, was viewed as a hero - thus, a war hero, whether or not he actually was a "hero." On the other hand...would we be willing to describe, say, Nazi Generals as war heroes? If not, then I think you're right. john 20:36, 21 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Move

Page moved (back) according to Wikipedia:Naming_conventions#Lists. The user who moved it in the first place didnt even fix all those double redirects! --Jia ng 08:17, 27 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Charlie Chaplin was not Jewish

Actually Charlie Chaplin was NOT a jew just empathised with them during anti-semtic era of 30's and 40's. Please do not begin a famous Buddhists/Catholics/Moslems page. What purpose does it honestly serve except perhaps to disseminate false info as in the case of Chaplin.Norwikian 09:28, 25 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Hmm, doesn't it serve the purpose of disseminating correct information and dispelling false information, as in the case of Chaplin? Anthony DiPierro 04:03, 16 Mar 2004 (UTC)

More Jews to add

There are some more Jews in the List of converts to Judaism article which aren't yet listed here. I don't have time to add them myself now, but if anyone wants to do it in the meantime, feel free. —Psychonaut 13:14, 17 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Is Mel Mermelstein a Jew ? Jay 16:07, 1 Apr 2004 (UTC)

"He is a Hungarian-born Jew, sole-survivor of his family's extermination at Auchwitz." Delta G 04:47, 2 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Sarah Michelle Gellar is Jewish, her father and mother both being Jews. ChessPlayer

...Not necessarily making her a Jew, depending on her beliefs and your definition of Jewish. [[User:metahacker|metahacker]

Disclaimers

The following text was reverted from the article (by Zigger 22:50, 2004 Apr 11 (UTC)) as it is discussion:

The above disclaimer fails to mention that this page also contains people who are neither. see the following paragraph.

It must be noted that some of these people are not jews, as you must convert or have been born to a jewish mother to be jewish. Lenny Kravitz is not a Jew. I don't know which other people here are wrongly so labeled but the system should be to name whether they are jewish by conversion or mother and the source of this information. This is an encyclopedia people, not a place for palaver!

What's the purpose of this page? 81.225.8.80 19:14, 22 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Edits and deletions

I have done a fairly major edit on this page.

I have deleted all dates of birth and death and all "(born Robert Zimmerman)" etc, since this information is available in the articles the names link to.
I have dewikified virtually everything except the names, except specifically Jewish subjects. Readers do not need dozens of links to "US" or "writer."
I have greatly reduced the descriptions - readers can look in the articles.
I have standardised all "American" to "US."
I have reorganised the categories to break up the biggest ones.
I have deleted a lot of POV.
I have added some names, but deleted none except for some duplications.

I would suggest, however, deleting the "Biblical figures" altogether. We could obviously, if we wanted, list the entire cast of the Old Testament and much of the New, to no really good purpose since most of them are of dubious, or at least unknowable, historicity. Adam 12:06, 25 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Adding names

Can anybody include include these people in the list ?

Bogdan | Talk 13:39, 25 Apr 2004 (UTC)~

Finally done! Many of these names were not listed yet, and now they are on the relevant (Jewish) lists of names. Thank you for your input! IZAK 05:30, 3 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Rules for Appearing on the List

What are the rules? For example, does a person belong on the list if their father was a Jew, but not their mother, and they don't practice the religion or consider themselves as Jews? ChessPlayer 05:57, 26 Apr 2004 (UTC)

It seems so, yes. but this should be noted: eg, William Cohen (Jewish father) Adam 06:27, 26 Apr 2004 (UTC)

John: Rt Hon Rufus Isaacs was MP for Reading before being elevated to the peerage. Adam 00:19, 30 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Yes, I suppose. But then Judah Benjamin and Bill Cohen were US Senators. And Reading was better known as Lord Chief Justice and Viceroy of India than from his time as an MP. It seems better to me to just have politicians from different countries instead of distinguishing "elected" from "non-elected" leaders. john 00:28, 30 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I was drawing a distinction between elected officials and appointed ones, but I agree it is messy distinction. Is it common in the US refer to people like Kissinger and Albright who never held elective office as "politicians?" To my mind a politician is a person who runs for office, not an appointed official. Adam 00:47, 30 Apr 2004 (UTC)

So Lord Rosebery (who never held elective office) was not a politician? I'm not sure about such a distinction. john 00:56, 30 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Cat Stevens?

Please explain how Stephen Demetre Georgiou is Jewish? RickK 05:07, 7 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Also, he's British, not American. RickK 05:12, 7 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

There is a misunderstanding that his real name was once "Steven Katz" which then became "Cat Stevens" however it definitely is a FALSE myth as you correctly point out. IZAK 07:24, 2 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Traci Lords and Courtney Love

Traci Lords is not Jewish and has no Jewish ancestry. She has claimed to be Jewish, as is the case with Courtney Love, who also has no Jewish ancestry (her mother's stepfather was Jewish but that's as far as it goes with Ms. Love).

Actually Lords' father was a Ukranian Jew.

http://www.thefab.net/movies/m13_traci_lords_01.htm

Though reported on a number of websites, this is actually exceptionally unlikely (adult star bios are often full of errors). She makes no mention of it in her recent autobiography, and Ukrainian steelworkers were almost exclusively non-Jewish. She also mentions a paternal grandmother named "Mary", and her mother's refusal to have a church wedding. Juko 00:47, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Lenin

Please cite a reputable source as to Lenin having Jewish ancestry (the Protocols of the Elders of Zion is not a reputable source).

The New York Times once had an article about Lenin's partial Jewish ancestry, it's a job for someone to track down. IZAK 07:24, 2 Jun 2004 (UTC)

US Politicians

Isn't it a bit redundant to put US after the name of the US politician since it has already been established by the section title US Politicians that they are a political figure in the US, For example where it says:

Gary Ackerman, US Congressman from New York Shouldn't it read: Gary Ackerman, Congressman from New York since again it has already been established that he is a US Politican by article section title. Misterrick 03:10, 20 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Misterrick, you are right, let me correct this...IZAK 02:34, 20 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

"Victims" Section

I strongly disapprove of having a section entitled "victims." I also disapprove of people being moved out of other sections to be put into a section entitled "victims." Ga. john k 06:22, 25 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

That question again....

What's the purpose of this page? 81.225.8.80 19:14, 22 Apr 2004 (UTC)

It's useful for the racists when it comes time to round up all the Jews (that was sarcasm, folks) jewishlibrarian jewishlibrarian 26 May 2004

C'mon librarian, even for a joke that was exquisitely bad taste. JFW | T@lk 22:31, 27 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, but is there anyone here to whom it did not occur when they first saw the page?Gzuckier 16:22, 28 Jul 2004 (UTC)

It occurred to me, along with "what Jew is so insecure about their own cultural identity that they needed to create this page ..

It did not occur to me when I first saw this page. Quite frankly, I don't understand the many criticims this talk page has with regard to the existance of this list. It is important to show lists of notable Jews, African-Americans, African-Europeans, women, asians, etc., because of the extent to which the western world has:

ignored them in the past
criticised, demonized, and persecuted them in the past

Call it my liberal white guilt if you want to, but being able to point a reporter, a researcher or a school child to a page of notable people of a particular ethnicity that refutes racist suggestions of inferiority seems entirely justified to me. AdmN 04:22, 31 Aug 2004 (UTC)

So a list of people who in somebody's opinion have a link to Judaism makes you feel better? The definition of Judaism on this page isn't even defensible. Your liberal white guilt comes across as racism when you assume anybody famous is also white, liberal and Christian.

Oh, I've posted that I think it's a valuable page, but the old sardonic sense of humor (there is a page on Jewish humor, isn't there?) can't let it be without comment. Gzuckier 14:04, 31 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Why is there a list of Jewish criminals?

Why is there a list of Jewish criminals. Is there a list of other ethnic criminals? I think this is unfair.165.247.47.250 (Talk | contribs)

Well, there was a pretty solid Jewish presence in organized crime at one time (the purple gang, et al), which makes that part of the list historically significant, like Italian criminals would be, but Norweigan criminals would presumably not be; maybe it should be retitled? (Apparently there is a resurgence of Jewish criminals among the 'Russian mafia' but that's kind of a different thing and has a different spin on it these days so we can leave it pass....) Personally I'm dubious about 'Jewish spies'. That doesn't have an organizing principle behind it the way historical Jewish organized crime does, (except for Joshua, Caleb, et al) so it's like one step up from 'jews who overcharged me for candy bars when i was a kid'. Gzuckier 16:31, 28 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Alphabetical order

Why are people adding entries to these lists out of order? Surely it cannot be too difficult to slot them in in the right place? --Nevilley 11:20, 2 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I have removed Jackie O's entry: (* Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis, US First Lady (mother's father was Jewish)) to talk, as I [1] can't find any source that claims it and [2] it seems rather unlikely and [3] I can find a source that contradicts it. Her mother's father was James Thomas Lee, the son of James Lee and Mary Norton, immigrants to America from Cork, Ireland during the Potato Famine. [This site http://www.bookreporter.com/reviews/0670891916-excerpt.asp] states that he was born and died a Roman Catholic, and was considered as godfather for Jackie. - Nunh-huh 23:40, 3 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Errors

Not sure what purpose this list serves. Nevertheless, I've removed Bernie Ecclestone and Rupert Murdoch as it is very unlikely that either of them is (even partly) Jewish. In both cases, claims of their Jewishness appear only on far-right websites. In Murdoch's case, it's presumably derived from his pro-Israeli views and his mother's maiden name (Greene, which sounds like Green). In fact, like her namesake Graham Greene (before he converted), Murdoch's mother is probably an Anglican: she went to an Anglican school and contributes heavily to the Melbourne Anglican Foundation.

Removing positively doubtful names is important. By the way, could you please sign your name next time. Thanks. IZAK 05:33, 3 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Yeah, that connects up with the question re Judaic reliability of African-American Jews; if Murdoch with a fuzzy background claims he is a Jew, does he get listed? Listed with a footnote? Etc. There are lots of folks with Jewish ancestors who are halachically no longer Jewish, but this list is more secular in nature than a reference according to Orthodox principles, seems to me. Gzuckier 14:04, 3 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Murdoch never claims to be Jewish as far as is known and there is no positive way to make his mother Jewish, beyond rumor, so he is off the list. This list does NOT function by "Orthodox" criteria, which actually makes the definition of who is Jewish very simple: 1) A person, male or female, born of a positively known and accepted Jewish mother (i.e. her parents were Jewish, or at least her mother must be known to be Jewish) and 2) Someone (male or female) converted according to Jewish religious law (Halakha). It's the non-Orthodox and secular "definitions", that cloud and confuse the identfication/s of who is or is not Jewish. But so far, most people seem to agree that it depends on parentage and birth (and NOT on religious affiliation), and most definitely NOT on "feelings" by just waking up one morning and "deciding" to be Jewish for the heck of it. IZAK 22:11, 3 Aug 2004 (UTC)

list of 'african-american jews'

any strong feelings regarding adding a section of 'african-american' (which may also potentially include 'african-british' or some such) jews? Everybody knows about sammy davis jr. and some folks know about lenny kravitz and lisa bonet, but there are many more out there who have organized themselves and are somewhat active in forging an identity. Me, I think it's nontrivial, nonracist, is information most people don't have at hand already, and would be informative, which is the point of wikipedia after all, and is why the 'list of jews' is here, regardless of some folks' not being happy about it. Somewhere, sometime, somebody is going to want to check whether Courtney Hole and/or Yaphet Kotto are Jewish for a term paper or something and we want to be useful to them. Gzuckier 16:20, 28 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Only one comment: Are you absolutely, positively sure that most of these people are actually Jewish by some sort of religiously accepted criteria, and are not just "self-proclaimed" "Jews"? IZAK 05:37, 3 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Good question. Mostly, no. Of course, then we get into the old 'who is a jew?' divide, with religion vs heredity. Kotto, for example, says his family came from Yemenite Jews via the Cameroons. He apparently practices at least some (pictures of him wearing a yarmulkah). Would he be allowed to marry the daughter of a hassidic rebbe? I don't know. Maybe a disclaimer? Of course, that goes for a lot of the folks on this list in general, not just African-American.Gzuckier 14:00, 3 Aug 2004 (UTC)

More Errors

Someone added Adolf Hitler to this list. This is a sort of rumor based of unsupported allegations. See http://www.holocaust-history.org/questions/hitler-jewish.shtml . Thus, I am removing Hitler --- Ok, someone keeps adding Hitler back. This time it says "mothers father was jewish". Clearly this person doesnt have a clue, I hate to say. There is no evidence whatsoever linking Hitler to any Jewish ancestors and in fact the allegation that his FATHERS father was Jewish was proved false. So I am removing it once again...

Elvis (sighting/citing?)

Someone keeps on re-inserting the name of Elvis Presley as having a "Jewish" grandparent. This is not common knowledge and no-one has ever claimed this (I guess maybe it's maybe just another instance of an "Elvis sighting" this time on the "List of Jews" :-) ) Does anyone know if Elvis had any known and even vaguely verifiable Jewish ancestors? Thank you. IZAK 03:18, 31 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Seems we would have heard it before. Gzuckier 03:39, 31 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Orlando Bloom

Orlando Bloom Biological Father is Colin Stone, so why would he be added as "Jewish Father" if we dont know if Colin Stone is Jewish?

fictional character addition

betty boop? well her father was jewish, in a manner of speaking. Gzuckier 14:33, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I think Roberto Begnini is not a jew

Please confirm or deny and delete

Another Call for deletion

I think this page is racist, pointless and should be deleted, regardless of how much work went into it.

I wouldn't say it's racist, but it's become a rather weird accumulation of poorly verified and often biased stuff. We also have a list of famous gay, lesbian or bisexual people, which could be explained as homophobic. JFW | T@lk 10:58, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)

...and there's also List of Christians and List of Muslims. It's not racist; in fact, I struggle to see why anybody could seriously think that. --Khendon 11:29, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I consider the article on Frank Zappa to be antizappaist by its very nature. Why should he be singled out, from the billions of humans who are now living or have previously lived? In recognition of the innate brotherhood of all mankind and womankind, we should delete all Wikipedia articles on individual persons. Gzuckier 17:53, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I think that any argument in support of this list has to address the fear that I think is echoed by all the objections: this list looks an awful lot like a list compiled by anti-semites, of the sort who believe that the marking of foods as 'kosher' is an element of some sort of Jewish conspiracy. There is nothing wrong with having a list of famous Jews, per se, but just a list of 'Jews' seems pointless. I, for one, would object to any simple list of people based on some profiled demographic (No-fly list, anyone?) featuring my name. This article should be re-named at the very least, for the sake of sanity.

This article and all related should be deleted. Wikipedia's list disease is mostly harmless. This is an exception - it is clearly not harmless. Do I really need to explain how it differs from List of gays / christians / dog lovers / people who compile pointless lists ? [2] [3] [4] Rd232 10:26, 27 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Well, yeah, I would be curious as to why a List of Jews would be objectionable but a List of Gays would not. Gzuckier 19:42, 27 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I was somewhat ambivalent about this list to begin with, but after contributing a name or two, have found myself coming up with more [no, already included] and more [nope, she's there too] names to add. I find nothing antisemetic about it, but agree that "Who is a Jew and Why?" is/are questions that pop up again and again. What is emerging is a list of some truely amazing people, a scoundrel or two and legions of "I wonder who this person is." I say the list stays.

What happened?

What's with all the duplicated categories? Gzuckier 22:37, 13 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I fixed it. Gzuckier 03:10, 20 Jan 2005 (UTC)

The entire page appears to be duplicated now. I'll try to fix it. --Amoore 02:13, Jun 13, 2005 (UTC)

I believe that almost all of the content in this article was duplicated during the edit by User:165.234.63.207 at 12:23, Jun 10, 2005. I think I got rid of all of the duplicated categories and preserved all of the edits performed since then. --Amoore 02:32, Jun 13, 2005 (UTC)

It's a known bug in the wiki software. --Bonalaw 08:56, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Barry Manilow

If he was born with the name Barry Pincus, I'm guessing not just his mother was Jewish.Gzuckier 18:56, 14 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Holocaust category

I added Rudolf Vrba to the "victims" section but I don't like it because he was more noted for his heroism than for his victimhood. Can I suggest a section called "Holocaust related" (or similar name) for people whose fame is closely associated with the Holocaust? There are a fair number of people on the page who would fit that category well. --Zero 10:35, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Use of the list

Well, for one thing, all it takes is a glance at it to tell you we need more biographies of Jewish military figures, and to a lesser extent Jewish sports figures. Gzuckier 20:06, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Is this not what "Categories" are for?

Perhaps we should remove this and turn this all into categories.Nick Catalano 08:05, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Categories don't capture people for whom there is no Wikipedia article. Jayjg ^(talk) 15:50, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)

This list really is a mess. On any other list of people by belief, the following rules apply: (1) the person should be known to be of that belief, and (2) it should have some relevance to what they are known for. So what I'm saying is that the same rule should apply here. Either that, or rename this article "List of people with Jewish grandparents". Though my preference is strongly for the former. Bonalaw 13:09, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Jews are a people, not members of a faith group; typical classifications do not readily apply. Jayjg ^(talk) 15:49, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I would like to point out that, although nonJews may not be familiar with this, Jews frequently note/discuss whether a particular figure is 'Jewish' in the sense of this page; religious, by heredity, converted to, converted from, had a great-grandfather, etc. etc. This is not restricted to Jews, of course, nonJews are freely invited to participate in these discussions. It's neither antiSemitic nor a part of the cabal's plans for world conquest, it's just kind of a hobby, not all that different in spirit from genealogy. I would guess most nationalities/minorities have similar pastimes. So, for those who are nonJewish and fear this page is antiSemitic in intent or possibility, please be reassured. Otherwise, I'd have to say it serves the rather innocuous needs of Jewish people who indulge in this sort of speculation to while away the time, and as such should not be eliminated or restricted to more rigid standards of Judaic identity. Gzuckier 20:48, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I am reminded of being in an argument about the occupation of the West Bank in which the defender of the occupation accused those opposed to it of being anti-Semites - although 2 of the 4 with that stance were Jewish. It is a strange thing, to be sure, but I enjoy the list, so that is reason enough for me as to why it should exist. Carptrash 00:46, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)

An ironic discussion. Many categories, such as Jewish American musicians and Jewish American scientists, have recently been deleted because someone thought lists were better. I prefer categories, though I take the point that they cannot include people with no articles (so why not create a stub?) On Carptrash's point, if an anti-Semite is one who hates Jews, why shouldn't a Jew be one? He/she may well hate other Jews for being Jewish and repudiate his/her Jewish identity.RachelBrown 20:52, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Reverting 'move' to category

This list definitely serves a purpose, as do the lists of other groups, and should not be deleted, especially without any sort of agreement. If you want to make a category for Jewish individuals duplicating the info on this page that's another thing, but it's not something that's really been done with other groups, probably to avoid 'pigeonholing'. But certainly something in the article namespace should not be 'moved' to the category namespace as at Category:Jewish--Pharos 21:52, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Jewish? & Article Needs

Were her Jewish? and we need their article(all photographer).;

Lee Miller 1907-1977 - lover of Man Ray

Dora Maar (Henriette Dorothée Markovitch); 1907-1997 (probably Jewish)
Lotte Beese (Charlotte Stam-Beese) (Lotte Stam-Beese); 1903-1988 (No pages link to here)
Aenne Biermann; 1898-1933(No pages link to here) (probably Jewish)
Ilse Bing; 1899-1998 (No pages link to here)
Gisèle Freund; 1912-2000 (probably Jewish)
Lucia Moholy (née Schulz); 1894-1989 (No pages link to here)
Sonya Noskowiak; 1900-1975

--Sheynhertz-Unbayg 11:57, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)

See aso List of photographers. --Sheynhertz-Unbayg 06:03, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Haven't had a chance to look at the others yet, but Lee Miller wasn't Jewish. This can be inferred from example from [5], which notes that "It should be pointed out that Dave Scherman was Jewish, while Miller had a deep affinity for Jewish culture." -Juko

Category:Jews

I've been removing the handful of individuals listed in this category amid entries like Bukharan Jews, because it seems they have been added haphazardly and are only a tiny fraction of those on List of Jews, and the national lists, which seem like the places for this sort of info. It seems to me like the categories are not really being fully used, and that the real comprehensive work is being done on the lists.

Please comment on Category Talk:Jews.--Pharos 00:26, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)

This list is incomplete ... for now

Does anyone else find it terribly ironic that this has a "This list is incomplete" tag on it?

Do you ever expect the "List of Jews" to be COMPLETE??

--The Milkman 01:50, Mar 7, 2005 (UTC)

Of course not. But I have a different problem: is anyone actually verifying all those claims? It's easy for David ben-Gurion, but some people may not actually be Jewish at all according to any definition. Hell, what purpose does such a list serve anyway? JFW | T@lk 02:13, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Sacha Baron Cohen

Does he need to be listed in 2 categories? I've removed him once from comedians but he has resurfaced there. If only one category, which one should he be in?

List him in the category he is primarily known for, and just keep deleting him from the other. People don't read through the whole list, so they might not see him further on. Jayjg ^(talk) 20:12, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Various

(a) What happened to poor old Wittgenstein? I thought he had got exiled from the main page to here. (b) This page lists too many actors who will in all likelihood be forgotten, and too few scientists (but then, I'm biased) (c) I feel iffy about this kind of list, for what it is worth. Hasdrubal 23:34, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Jewish? -List

Was him(her) Jewish ? --

~~Erich Auerbach~~

Eduard Bagritsky(Bahryckyj) 1895-1934

Lyman Frank Baum

Patricia Beer (1924-)

Albert Bein

Waclaw Berent 1873-940

Werner Bergengruen

Thomas Louis Berger|Thomas Berger (1924-)

Olga Berggolts(* * *) (1910-1975)

Carl Bergmann, bilogist

Herbert Biberman

Otto Julius Bierbaum|de (1865-1910)

Paul Bowles(1910-)

Ferdinand Braudel

Jule Gregory Charney

Hermine David|fr (1886 - 1970)

~~Ariel Dorfman (1942-)~~

Samuel Abraham Goudsmit

Antoni Grabowski

Arturo Graf (1848-1913)

de:Oskar Maria Graf (1894-1967)

Hans Grosz|de(1847-1915)

Arthur Haas, or Arthur Erich Haas

Rod Carew is not Jewish

Look up in legitimate articles on the subject (or in jewhoo.com), it is a big urban legend that he converted, that's why I took him out. Even Adam Sandler has admitted in interviews that his research was errant in stating this in one of his famous Chanukah songs. However, his wife is Jewish and they do more or less raise their children Jewish. But he never formally converted nor does he practice Judaism to any noteworthy degree outside of perhaps joining in with family on say Passover or Chanukah celebrations. Hairymon <

Zoidberg?

I fail to see how Dr. Zoidberg counts as being Jewish. In fact, he was kicked out of a robot Bar Mitzvah due to his species not being kosher.

jews aren't kosher. try to buy one at a kosher butcher store.Gzuckier 18:01, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

He only has a Jewish accent and a last name with a typically Jewish suffix.

he's a doctor with an uncle in showbiz. what more proof do you need.Gzuckier 18:01, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Who keeps putting Halle Berry up?

I think she's a very talented (and as I keep seeing next to the entry, sexy) actress; but I have never seen any biography, article, etc. that says either parent is Jewish. I have taken her down (as someone else did before). I challenge whoever keeps putting her up to show the evidence.

And this has nothing to do with her having one African-American parent either; there are quite a few famous people who have a white Jewish parent and a black parent, for example, Lisa Bonet, Lenny Kravitz, Sophie Okenedo, etc. so I am not basing it on that at all. Hairymon <

Why are 90%+ American?

Why are there so few, for example, Israelis on this list? Why do we have to go see a page of "Israeli politicians (most of whom are Jewish)" on a separate page, rather than see the list of Israeli politicans on this page too? It seems that all Israeli Jews are separated from this list onto separate pages. Why? This is supposed to be a list of Jews - not Jews living outside of Israel only. Moncrief 18:04, May 15, 2005 (UTC)

Good question. But:

there are lots of Jews in America
it's probably easier to become famous if you're American than say Ukrainian
I am sure as an English gal that there's a US bias here
There's a separate List of British Jews with loads of entries that aren't on here RachelBrown 21:24, 15 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

That doesn't answer the question of why there are next to none Israeli Jews on this list, nor does it answer the question of why all of the Israeli Jews are stuck on other lists. Look, this article is called "List of Jews." Either put all of the Jews on this list as well as keep them on their national lists, or rename the title of the article. Moncrief 06:42, May 16, 2005 (UTC)

Much sympathy with this. However, the list is already long, and to put everyone on here would be an immense duplication of other lists. What is needed is a careful re-structure, to turn this into a list of cross-references. As an example, already there is no list of scientists or philosophers, just a cross-reference. We also need to ensure that everyone is on all the right lists, so e.g. all British politicians are on the general list of politicians. RachelBrown 09:29, 16 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Why I moved Neve Campbell to "Distant/Partial Jewish Heritage"

I challenge the person who put her in here to post the weblink that says "strong maternal Sephardic heritage, identifies as Jewish".

Sometimes when I see an entry here that I think is doubtful (like in my other discussion entry on Halle Berry, who I outright took off), I look all over the web to see anything that will prove it. After literally looking at about 50 web biographies on her, I have found almost NOTHING that says the above about this actress. What I have found:

- Her brother's name is CHRIS! Even the most non-religious of Jews (and many with "partial hertiage") almost never name their children Chris or Christine. It is very rare that someone named Chris has significant Jewish heritage.

- No site I found says she identifies as Jewish. In fact she was married in a fairly religious church ceremony.

- The bios all say that her father is from Scotland (and Campbell is certainly a Scottish last name) and her mother from Holland. There was once a significant Sephardic community in the Netherlands and her mother has a Spanish maiden name (some but not all Sephardic Jews have Spanish last names) so I gave a nod to that and moved her to the "partial/distant" category rather than take her out completely. Hairymon <

Again, please prove me wrong, I think this info if true is fascinating!

She's not Jewish, and has never spoken about any "Sephardic heritage" as far as I know. Jayjg ^(talk) 02:30, 18 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I found a link confirming that - this website of "Jewish Teen Stars" explains her story, and gives a link to a Newsday article where she explains it herself - http://vulturelover10.tripod.com/neve.html

Sounds good to me. I was the one who moved her and as I noted above, I had seen enough (mostly her mother having "Dutch" heritage but a "Spanish" last name, which hinted at some Sephardic ancestry) to not take her out completely. I noticed the article also mentioned Meryl Streep's similar distant ancestry, which someone had put on this list as well before.

musicians

the subheadings of musicians have become completely farblunget. Gzuckier 14:53, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I hope this is better now.Gzuckier 18:02, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)