Talk:German Shepherd: Difference between revisions
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| action1date = 10 August 2008 |
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| action1link = Wikipedia:Peer review/German Shepherd Dog/archive1 |
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<div style="text-align: center">[[Image:Vista-file-manager.png|50px|Archive]]<br /> |
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# [[Talk:German Shepherd Dog/Archive 1|2004–2006]] |
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| action3date = 04:30, 13 January 2012 (UTC) |
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== Correct German Name? == |
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I find only ''Deutsche Schäferhund'', not ''Deutscher Schäferhund''. I am not a native German speaker, but I've always heard ''Deutsche Schäferhund''. I changed it to ''Deutsche Schäferhund'' assuming it was a typo...if not, can someone comment definitively here (and why - I believe the -er rather than -e is to match case and gender, so perhaps it's variable?) |
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: Upon further research, it appears Deutsche/Deutscher is variable depending on the gender. I believe Deutscher is correct for hund, while Deutsche would be correct for hunde, the female. Can someone with a better command of German please confirm? If this is correct, I'll make it clear in the article. [[User:Afabbro|Afabbro]] 20:24, 24 May 2007 (UTC) |
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the singular is "deutscher Schäferhund", the plural "deutsche Schäferhunde",<small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:87.123.0.25|87.123.0.25]] ([[User talk:87.123.0.25|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/87.123.0.25|contribs]]) 15:08, July 6, 2007</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> |
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{{WikiProject Dogs|importance=Mid}} |
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{{merged-from|King Shepherd|14 March 2020}} |
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{{merged-from|Shiloh Shepherd dog|14 March 2020}} |
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The female form would be Deutsche Schäferhündin (singular),<small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:88.65.198.63|88.65.198.63]] ([[User talk:88.65.198.63|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/88.65.198.63|contribs]]) 09:11, July 21, 2007</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> |
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* <nowiki>[[Police dog#Cadaver dogs|cadaver searching]]</nowiki> The anchor (#Cadaver dogs) is no longer available because it was [[Special:Diff/775111314|deleted by a user]] before. <!-- {"title":"Cadaver dogs","appear":{"revid":379537803,"parentid":379011682,"timestamp":"2010-08-18T06:24:32Z","removed_section_titles":[],"added_section_titles":["Cadaver dogs"]},"disappear":{"revid":775111314,"parentid":774000441,"timestamp":"2017-04-12T18:51:57Z","removed_section_titles":["Cadaver dogs"],"added_section_titles":[]}} --> |
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==Wiki Education assignment: Writing 2== |
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{{dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment | course = Wikipedia:Wiki_Ed/Baruch_College,_CUNY/Writing_2_(Spring_2022) | assignments = [[User:.octopat1|.octopat1]] | start_date = 2022-12-28 | end_date = 2023-05-17 }} |
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<span class="wikied-assignment" style="font-size:85%;">— Assignment last updated by [[User:.octopat1|.octopat1]] ([[User talk:.octopat1|talk]]) 02:22, 3 April 2023 (UTC)</span> |
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Its somewhat more complicate in German, it depends on singular/plural, definite/indefinite article, and the grammatical case. (It depends also on the sex, but the default not only for dog breeds is grammatically male, somewhat similar to "actor" in English which may denote both actresses and male actors. Here are some translations for the nominative: |
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<br>German Shepherd Dog: Deutscher Schäferhund |
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<br>a German Shepherd Dog: ein Deutscher Schäferhund |
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<br>the German Shepherd Dog: der Deutsche Schäferhund |
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<br>German Shepherd Dogs: Deutsche Schäferhunde |
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<br>the German Shepherd Dogs: die Deutschen Schäferhunde |
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== A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion == |
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My sense for how to correctly use foreign words in an English text may be misleading me as non-native English speaker, but I guess the following would be appropriate: |
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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion: |
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* [[commons:File:Plushcoatshilohshepherd.jpg|Plushcoatshilohshepherd.jpg]]<!-- COMMONSBOT: speedy | 2023-05-13T17:53:47.918843 | Plushcoatshilohshepherd.jpg --> |
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You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —[[User:Community Tech bot|Community Tech bot]] ([[User talk:Community Tech bot|talk]]) 17:53, 13 May 2023 (UTC) |
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== Variants == |
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As list entry under "Alternative names" I would say "Deutscher Schäferhund". In sentences, I would say "this is the Deutsche Schäferhund", "this is a Deutsche Schäferhund" etc. ("this is a Deutscher Schäferhund" sounds strange to me.) Also, I would write "this is a literal translation from the German 'Deutscher Schäferhund'", not "this is a literal translation from the German 'Deutsche Schäferhund'". |
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Why is the variant section included in this? We don't list crossbreeds and offshoots in other articles. Examples: the crossbreed [[Labradoodle]] is not mentioned in [[Labrador Retriever]] or [[Poodle]] (except in passing in the "see also" segment of poodle), nor is the breed [[Alaskan Klee Kai]] included in [[Alaskan husky]]. I do not own a copy of Hancock's book, but I'm really surprised by this. The [[East European Shepherd]] is a Russian breed whose foundational stock was German Shepherds 100 years ago.<ref>{{Cite book |last=Morris |first=Desmond |title=Dogs: the ultimate dictionary of over 1,000 dog breeds. |publisher=Trafalgar Square Publishing |year=2001 |isbn=1-57076-219-8 |location=North Pomfret, VT |pages=446–447}}</ref> King Shepherds and Shiloh Shepherds are notably crossbreeds, although the Shiloh Shepherd is now establishing as a new breed/breed in development.<ref>{{Cite web |title=How is a Shiloh different from a German or King shepherd? |url=https://www.shiloh-shepherd.com/pages/howdifferent.html |access-date=2023-11-23 |website=www.shiloh-shepherd.com}}</ref> And White shepherds and White Swiss Shepherds have their own page. [[User:Annwfwn|Annwfwn]] ([[User talk:Annwfwn|talk]]) 16:49, 23 November 2023 (UTC) [[User:Annwfwn|Annwfwn]] ([[User talk:Annwfwn|talk]]) 16:49, 23 November 2023 (UTC) |
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(BTW, I have checked the article's present version, it is in accordance with what I proposed above.) |
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{{reflist-talk}} |
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--[[Special:Contributions/91.13.215.246|91.13.215.246]] ([[User talk:91.13.215.246|talk]]) 22:53, 21 February 2008 (UTC) |
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What you wrote is correct. I'am german and they are called that way the correct name for the breed is ''Deutscher Schäferhund''. --[[User:Inugami-bargho|Inugami-bargho]] ([[User talk:Inugami-bargho|talk]]) 13:46, 17 May 2008 (UTC) |
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i am german too and say ''Deutscher Schäferhund'' is correct in german. (also look at the link to the german language wikipedia an the article page) [[User:Elvis|Elvis]] ([[User talk:Elvis|talk]]) 12:16, 19 May 2008 (UTC) |
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== Pituitary dwarfism == |
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== White German Shepherd - Has its own article... == |
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@[[User:Justlettersandnumbers|Justlettersandnumbers]] the section I wrote did get a bit large but I figured it wasn't undue given the other section being 50% larger and most of that section being generic dog specific health. I have looked at it and there's some information that isn't needed such as the Weimaraner sentence and reducing some content like the stuff on genes. I did quite a detailed description as there's no page for the article to link to for further reading. |
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The White GSD section on here is one of the more well maintained sections, but the White GSD has its own page now, with a significant amount of background and text. Whilst still relevant to the main GSD article, I feel that this section could be trimmed to a high-level overview of the white variant, linked to the dedicated white GSD page and the relevant extra portions merged in (if necessary) with the White GSD page. Thoughts? - [[User:Nickhumphrey|Nickhumphrey]] 16:03, 24 January 2007 (UTC) |
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I've got two solutions: first is to slightly reduce some content as I identified. The second would be to significantly reduce the content and create an article for the condition. I believe it meets notability but I am not completely sure. Some non-medical sources for notability include a book <ref>{{cite book | last=Walker | first=Joan Hustace | title=Everything German Shepherd Book | publisher=Simon and Schuster | date=2011-12-15 | isbn=978-1-60550-920-4 | page=62}}</ref> and some news articles on dwarf German Shepherds [https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/german-shepherd-rare-condition-puppy-b1970576.html] [https://www.azcentral.com/story/entertainment/pets/2019/12/09/ranger-the-dwarf-german-shepherd-dog-instagram-pituitary-dwarfism/2598631001/][https://www.vice.com/en/article/exmmen/tiger-is-a-three-year-old-german-shepherd-with-dwarfism] |
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I'd like to hear your thoughts. [[User:Traumnovelle|Traumnovelle]] ([[User talk:Traumnovelle|talk]]) 02:55, 27 March 2024 (UTC) [[User:Traumnovelle|Traumnovelle]] ([[User talk:Traumnovelle|talk]]) 02:55, 27 March 2024 (UTC) |
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Agree. This section should be removed and replaced with a single reference to the White GSD page.[[User:S1000|S1000]] 06:36, 10 February 2007 (UTC) |
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:I must apologise, {{u|Traumnovelle}}, I had forgotten that User:Sacristy is also you. I have no special expertise in this area, nor any clear idea how significant this topic is to this breed (compared to, say, the high incidence of [[dysplasia of the hip]] brought about by generations of misguided selective breeding for a stance that makes the unfortunate animals look deformed). Just my 2 eurocents: this is TMI for this page, where there should probably be no more than a brief mention and a blue link. Not sure that a stand-alone article is needed: at the moment [[Pituitary dwarfism]] redirects to [[Growth hormone deficiency]], not sure if that or [[Hypopituitarism]] is the better target, but in either case it should be straightforward to start a new section for animals. Or add it to the [[list of dog diseases]]? I wouldn't worry about non-medical sources myself – the scientific material should be sufficient. Regards, [[User:Justlettersandnumbers|Justlettersandnumbers]] ([[User talk:Justlettersandnumbers|talk]]) 13:59, 27 March 2024 (UTC) |
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::It's not a common condition but I'd say the public interest in dwarf German Shepherds as a 'cute' thing and the fact the mutation originated in the breed with all other cases being from breeds with German Shepherd lineage makes it relevant/notable to the breed. I've reduced the paragraphs to three and the word count is more than halved now. [[User:Traumnovelle|Traumnovelle]] ([[User talk:Traumnovelle|talk]]) 17:17, 27 March 2024 (UTC) |
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==Wiki Education assignment: Introduction to Community Economic and Social Development II== |
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Agree with Nickhumphrey and S1000. --[[User:Siriusfarm|Tom]] 18:29, 10 February 2007 (UTC) |
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{{dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment | course = Wikipedia:Wiki_Ed/Algoma_University/Introduction_to_Community_Economic_and_Social_Development_II_(Winter_2024) | assignments = [[User:Rajatrana1|Rajatrana1]] | start_date = 2024-01-09 | end_date = 2024-04-12 }} |
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<span class="wikied-assignment" style="font-size:85%;">— Assignment last updated by [[User:Rajatrana1|Rajatrana1]] ([[User talk:Rajatrana1|talk]]) 22:56, 12 April 2024 (UTC)</span> |
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== Thoughts on Appearance and Faults Section == |
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I think that the placement of a 'Faults' section under appearance without any further explanation creates a negative point of view (POV). The information is true for a show dog but not necessarily true for a working GSD. I would suggest that a better place for the 'faults' information would be in a separate section about GSD show dogs. I will leave this for a better copy editor because I think that there are people who would object to this change. --[[User:Siriusfarm|Tom]] 12:52, 3 February 2007 (UTC) |
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== Revert section on long haired GSD's.== |
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Did this to restore to an earlier version without the advertising links. It seems to keep the same information but better conforms to WP policy--[[User:Siriusfarm|Tom]] 14:19, 4 February 2007 (UTC) |
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: The revert is inappropriate in this case. The cites are evidence that long haired GSD's are bred and registered in other countries than the USA, because the present article is geographically limited, and presents only the standard on long haired GSD that pertains to some countries, without noting that this is not at all a universal standard. In other countries, standards do not fault long hairedness, and kennels are established that breed them. The naming of two kennels in a footnote is not advertizing. It's verification and citing of support for the statement that long haired GSDs are actively registered and bred elsewhere, a statment that should be cited and supported. |
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:I've therefore reverted the deletion. If you can find a way to support the statement that long hairedness is actively bred, registered and shown professionally in some countries, without linking to specific kennels, I'd be fine with that. But at present the best verification I can think of for that fact is to list some examples of places doing it. Certainly deleting the fact in order to remove the verification information, is likely to be inappropriate. The edit in question reads: |
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:* '''Before:''' "The so-called "long-haired German Shepherd" is considered a "fault" in the German Shepherd Dog breed according to American Kennel Club standards as well as the International (FCI) breed standard." |
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:* '''After:''' "... but is not a fault under UK Kennel Club standards<sup>[1]</sup> where long haired German Shepherds are also bred and registered.<sup>[2]</sup>" |
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:(For the record, might be worth noting, I have no specific COI-type interest in GSD's, I have often edited on articles related to dogs, dog breeds, canine veterinary conditions, and the like though.) |
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:Hope this is agreeable. [[user:FT2|FT2]] <sup><span style="font-style:italic">([[User_talk:FT2|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/FT2|email]])</span></sup> 19:34, 12 February 2007 (UTC) |
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:: Hi, I kept the content on the long hair GSD but changed the reference to the LSVD of Germany. Used your advice to mention a country that actively breeds, registers and shows Long haired GSDs but without a link to a specific kennel. The Long-haired GSD association of Germany seems to have been in existence since 1984 and actively promotes the fuzzy type of GSD.--[[User:Siriusfarm|Tom]] 03:00, 13 February 2007 (UTC) |
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== working bread mix with beauty bread GSD == |
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hi guys, anyone can tell me the differences between pure working bread and mix with beauty bread. i just get a mix working and beauty bread GSD around 12 weeks old is solid black and tan on the leg. i am wondering do it weak for this bread? as i know the whole patch of the pups die only her alive. <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[Special:Contributions/143.166.226.41|143.166.226.41]] ([[User talk:143.166.226.41|talk]]) 02:06, 28 February 2007 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned --> |
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::Beauty or show bred dogs are bred for looks and hopefully health.Workers are bred for strength and are generally healthier.German shepherd sadly have many health problems because of their popularity,since they are bred on puppy farms sometimes.hopefully your GSD will become a strong and pretty dog,just as long as you have a good vet.One thing,wiki talk pages are supposed to discuss the page,and are not advice pages.--[[User:70.165.71.229|70.165.71.229]] 15:10, 17 March 2007 (UTC) |
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== Alsatian == |
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What evidence is there for the claim that the name Alsatian was chosen because the breed came from Alsace-Lorraine? I cannot find any evidence anywhere that it came from that region, but only that this name was chosen because it was associated with "German" without using the word "German". Oxford English Dictionary on "Alsatian" says: |
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:* The name "Alsatian" was adopted in order to avoid the associations of "German". The dog does not belong to Alsace, nor is there a wolf strain in its composition. |
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[[User:Allansteel|Allansteel]] 11:20, 21 March 2007 (UTC) |
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<s>==Locking New or Un-registered Users== |
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I put the lock template on the article just because there has been a steady stream of nuisance edits in the past few days. |
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</s>--[[User:Siriusfarm|Tom]] 11:12, 22 March 2007 (UTC) |
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== German Shepherd Dogs...too cute! == |
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Ok, now I think that these GS's are too cute!!! |
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Who agrees? |
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signed, |
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[[User:72.5.152.45|72.5.152.45]] 15:27, 15 May 2007 (UTC) |
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== German Shepherd Smarts == |
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There once was a German Shepherd Dog who could buy |
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things at a store! |
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Anyone care? |
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<small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[Special:Contributions/72.5.152.45|72.5.152.45]] ([[User talk:72.5.152.45|talk]]) 15:32, 15 May 2007 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned --> |
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:A pair of black labs used to do that in my village for their elderly owner, and a penguin in Japan buys fish for its family. I don't see it as much more complicated than fetching a ball, it's the trust people place in the animals to actually deliver it to their owner is what's surprising not the actual act. [[User:213.249.187.143|213.249.187.143]] 22:16, 15 May 2007 (UTC) |
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:I have heard it told that a German Sheppard Dog has the problem-solving intelligence of an average ten year old child. I find this patently insulting to the German Sheppard Dog. :) [[User:Throckmorton Guildersleeve|Throckmorton Guildersleeve]] ([[User talk:Throckmorton Guildersleeve|talk]]) 16:13, 23 April 2008 (UTC) |
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== Popularity in the U.S. == |
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If statistics are going to be used they should at least show the relative difference. The German Shepherd Dogs might have risen in the ratings of popular dogs, but that doesn't mean ownership has increased and the figures say it has actually decreased. 45,014 in 2005 to 43,575 in 2006 suggesting they're becoming less popular in the US, just at a slower rate than Yorkshire Terriers. [[User:213.249.187.143|213.249.187.143]] 22:24, 15 May 2007 (UTC) |
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== Question == |
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I have heard before about the... feature in American-bred show dogs having a severely sloped back- the person I heard it from also mentioned that many of the dogs can "barely walk." I admittedly have had very little contact with any dogs of this breed (all of the ones I know work for their kibble), and I'd kind of like to see a picture of one of these affected dogs so I can compare it to my mental image and the pictures the article already sports. Or... if one of these pics in the article is already representative, could someone point it out? |
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Also, kind of an odd question here, but is it common at all for GSDs to have sort of a base-narrow thing going in the front legs, where their toes face out from each other? I just saw a video of a service dog who was standing like that, and it looked rather odd to me. '''''[[User:Sarranduin|<font color="#FF007F">Sarrandúin</font>]]''' <sup>[ [[User Talk:Sarranduin|<font color="#7171C6">Talk</font>]] + [[Special:Contributions/Sarranduin|<font color="FF0000">Contribs</font>]] ]</sup>'' 06:28, 18 June 2007 (UTC) |
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:Here's an article that shows some examples of modern American Showlines. It's even more noticeable when the dog is in motion. http://www.leerburg.com/gsd-gate.htm |
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:GSDs are supposed to "single track" which means feet from the left side and feet from the right side walk on a single line, as if on a tight rope, not two lines, like a skier. So in that respect, when the dog is in motion gaiting, yes, he should be base narrow. When he is standing still, his legs should be straight up and down when viewed from the front. The toes should point more or less straight ahead. If they toe-out the dog will tend to interfere with himself when moving. The gait should be effortless, ground covering, and sustainable for long periods of time. It is more common to see them toed out in the hind end than the front end. |
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[[User:Kirsten07734|Kirsten07734]] ([[User talk:Kirsten07734|talk]]) 04:42, 21 February 2008 (UTC) |
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== Temperament == |
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Needs a rewrite. The sectrion as it stands is not describing GSD temperament. rather it is ''defending'' GSD temperament. See [[Labrador_Retriever#Temperament_and_activities]] for an example of a balanced dog-temperament section. [[user:FT2|FT2]] <sup><span style="font-style:italic">([[User_talk:FT2|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/FT2|email]])</span></sup> 08:21, 23 June 2007 (UTC) |
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I agree. I have incorporated a rewrite and I've added a picture of a GSD with a baby in this section.--[[User:Dogperson3d|Dogperson3d]] 17:27, 29 August 2007 (UTC) |
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:That is not a balanced discussion of the breed's temperament, it is a judging and breeding standard. Could we please have less discussion of what they "should" or "must" be, and more of what they are. Properly referenced, of course. The breed does have a tendancy toward character flaws if not bred properly. '''[[User:Pyrope|<span style="font-family:Script MT Bold;color:#92000a">Pyrop</span>]][[User talk:Pyrope|<span style="font-family:Script MT Bold;color:#CE2029">e</span>]]''' 21:01, 14 October 2007 (UTC) |
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"willingness to '''eat''' human children" should be changed to willingness to '''protect''' human children. tried to edit it but when i clicked to change it, the edit had already been made.. soooo how long does it take for the new edit to be accepted?? |
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[[User:58.169.221.44|58.169.221.44]] 11:13, 22 October 2007 (UTC) |
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:Edits are displayed as soon as the database updates, which is usually just a few seconds. You probably loaded the page right after the edit was made, before someone looking over the recent changes feed caught it. By the time you attempted to edit it, however, it has been fixed. [[User:Xiong Chiamiov|<font color="black">Xiong Chiamiov</font>]] [[User_talk:Xiong Chiamiov|<font color="black"><span style="font-variant:small-caps; text-decoration: overline underline;">:: contact ::</span></font>]] 05:59, 14 November 2007 (UTC) |
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== Long hair shep image == |
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<gallery> |
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Image:Nov 04 038.jpg |
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Image:Long-haired German Shepherd Bitch -DSC01654-.png |
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Image:Langhaarschäferhund.jpg |
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Image:Long Hair GSD.jpg |
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</gallery> |
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I've rechecked the old image, and I still don't think it's a good one for the article. Even in full size, the dog is front-on, so only the tufts of fur around the ruff are visible. In a thumbnail the long hair features are not visible at all, and it looks more like a poor focused "generic German Shepherd" picture. The picture I replaced it with is side-view. Even in a thumbnail the features are visible, the body lines (silhouette) are clearly different to the usual sleeker GSD, and because it's a side view, the long hair influence is visible on the neck and haunches which is not the case even at high resolution with the older image. |
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I don't do much image work, but this one was crying out for a better one and has been for ages, to my eyes. Can you take another look at both, and reconsider the full images, and the thumbnail images of each revision, and my comments on these above. Many thanks. [[user:FT2|FT2]] <sup><span style="font-style:italic">([[User_talk:FT2|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/FT2|email]])</span></sup> 01:32, 29 June 2007 (UTC) |
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:I disagree. A close-up more clearly shows the long hair. Even if you can really only see the ruff around the neck, in the image you added I couldn't see the long hair or differentiate it ''at all''. I'll check over the Wikimedia Commons page for a possible alt image. [[User:VanTucky|VanTucky]] 01:38, 29 June 2007 (UTC) |
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Please do. For ease of reference I've added both images (at the same size) to the right of the above discussion. [[user:FT2|FT2]] <sup><span style="font-style:italic">([[User_talk:FT2|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/FT2|email]])</span></sup> 01:41, 29 June 2007 (UTC) |
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:I added an image to the gallery above that much more clearly shows the dog has long hair, though it is a pup I believe. What do you think? [[User:VanTucky|VanTucky]] 01:43, 29 June 2007 (UTC) |
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:: I saw that one, when I was checking the GSD category on commons. The thing is, long hairs have tufts, ruffs and heavy duty hair in various places. The neck ruff is the most notable, but around the ears, the legs, and the neck. Many of those are only visible side on. The pup one isn't bad, but its not really showing the full long hair influence. Ah...... if only its creator had included the rest of the body view too, in the same pic! |
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::That said, the third one is a lot more successful than the original one at showing the distinctive hair at thumbnail size, wehich is how most readers will see it. |
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:: (PS - thanks for gallery'ing the pics! Makes it a lot easier!) [[user:FT2|FT2]] <sup><span style="font-style:italic">([[User_talk:FT2|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/FT2|email]])</span></sup> 01:49, 29 June 2007 (UTC) |
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:::it's important to remember that Wikipedia isn't here to only show those dogs who demonstrate perfect adherence (or even really any) to the breed standard. Not only do different nations have different details in their requirement, making such a task somewhat impossible, but it's really a minor violation of NPOV to assert that dogs who look like the standard are the best. There are certainly that subset of owners who think that standards are detrimental to dogs. If the point here to is to clearly show the difference in coat length that distinguishes a long-haired shepherd, then the last image fits the bill. [[User:VanTucky|VanTucky]] 01:56, 29 June 2007 (UTC) |
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:::: Breed spec isn't the important thing, agreed. Clearly showing the coat difference is. Also agreed. One of the things that's always struck me about long-haired GSD's is that the coat is often so distinctive (as in, it's very markedly different from the ordinary coat). The female (2nd) and pup pic (3rd) conveys that more than the 4th in thumbnail, although in full view the 4th is a good one. But realistically most people will view this image as a thumbnail only, and so for me, a picture that even on thumbnail scale shows the distinctive differences in coat, and that even in thumbnail it's visibly more than just localized to around the neck and head, is important. [[user:FT2|FT2]] <sup><span style="font-style:italic">([[User_talk:FT2|Talk]] | [[Special:Emailuser/FT2|email]])</span></sup> 08:18, 29 June 2007 (UTC) |
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::::I have a long haired GSD and must have literally hundreds of photos of him on my HD, I have added one to the gallery (although its not great, cuts off feet, ears, etc) I could probably find one of any angle or position, if you had a preference or particular shot that you would like then let me know and I'll find or take one to upload. Cheers - [[User:Mr Bungle|Mr Bungle]] | [[User talk:Mr Bungle|<small>talk</small>]] 05:47, 29 June 2007 (UTC) |
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== infobox image == |
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The reasons for not including the "champion gsd" image are numerous. One, Wikipedia is not an advocate for the AKC or any other breed standard, and we do not favor dogs that fit that standard as it would violate a [[WP:NPOV|neutral point of view]]. Two, the image is [[WP:COI|a conflict of interest]], as it is a self-made image of the user's dog. Three, it is fuzzy and poorly composed. Last, and most importantly, the image versions have no [[WP:IMAGES|image license]], which makes them unsuitable for inclusion and will probably mean deletion. [[User:VanTucky|<span style="color:#E49B0F">VanTucky</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:VanTucky|(talk)]]</sup> 19:06, 9 August 2007 (UTC) |
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:The reasons for including the "champion gsd" image are numerous. One, the word "champion" does not denote if it is AKC, CKC, British, Philippine, or any other country champion, only that the gsd pictured has been bred to the standard which includes, structure,temperment, and workability, which is the point of view that indicates quality breeding as opposed to little reguard for those qualities (see gsd standard). Two, I do not see anywhere on Wikipedia where a person can not include an image of any dog that is a positive contribution to the breed. |
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Three, the image is as good if not better than others posted, and finally it is licensed.([[User:Touchstonegsd|Touchstonegsd]] 01:26, 10 August 2007 (UTC)) |
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The image is not "as good as any other image". It is first of all, poorly composed. It includes a person in the image, which is not what should be in the lead image. It is also fuzzy and too bright. There is no specific prohibition against using this image, but it there must be clear [[WP:CONSENSUS|consensus]] that it is more encyclopedic than the current image. I disagree obviously, and I have asked for a [[WP:THIRD|third opinion]]. [[User:VanTucky|<span style="color:#E49B0F">VanTucky</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:VanTucky|(talk)]]</sup> 02:04, 10 August 2007 (UTC) |
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:I agree that the photo of the champion is not as appropriate for the info box as the alternative, mainly due to the inclusion of the person and the cropping that cuts of the billboard. Feel free to place champ elsewhere in the article, . . . maybe. My 2¢. --[[User:Evb-wiki|Evb-wiki]] 03:03, 10 August 2007 (UTC) |
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:Here's a fourth opinion; the photo of the champion is not appropriate; it's poorly composed, and of a lower quality than the current image. I know you like your dog, and it's a very nice picture, but it's not as good as the current one. --[[User:Haemo|Haemo]] 05:12, 10 August 2007 (UTC) |
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:I agree that the photo is a poor alternative to the current picture. [[User:Phonemonkey|Phonemonkey]] 16:30, 10 August 2007 (UTC) |
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::Honorary ''fifth opinion''. We probably shouldn't assume this is a [[WP:COI]]. The image doesn't seem that bad to me either. However, the fact that there is a person in it gives off the wrong message and is not compliant with our consensus-driven manual of style. So right. But it really doesn't matter what type of German Shepherd it is, as long as the caption tells us. [[User:Bulldog123|Bulldog123]] 10:42, 11 August 2007 (UTC) |
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:The problem that has been encountered here is that someone wants their image of their dog listed as the lead image in wikipedia that incorrect in structure and not a good representative of the breed. |
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I think that if there were enough GSD breeders involved here in Wikiland that knew how to edit and make comments to things they believed incorrect that the change that I made (or some type of change) would indeed be deemed essential. This image that you have reverted back to shows a dog that is not a good representative of the breed, that is incorrect in structure and this image is something that breeders have been trying to correct for ages. |
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So here is where I will begin my didactic lesson plan.--[[User:Dogperson3d|Dogperson3d]] 16:17, 20 August 2007 (UTC) |
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:It is the mistake of many new editors to dog breed articles that they assume Wikipedia is here to promote what breeders and governing bodies think is a "good representative" of a breed. Wikpedia does not write articles from the perspective of breed advocates or fanciers, and does not make subjective value judgements when it comes to the characteristics of dogs in images. If the image is well-composed, clear, of neutral and encyclopedic content, then it is the most suitable one for the article. Factors such as what some consider "incorrect structure" do not come into play. [[User:VanTucky|<span style="color:#E49B0F">VanTucky</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:VanTucky|(talk)]]</sup> 16:38, 20 August 2007 (UTC) |
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VanTucky you concerns are noted but understand that the correct image for this breed is of high importance to many people. There is a breed standard here (not just AKC) that all involved aspire to and strive to breed for. Help me understand why we should support your editing what is perceived and incorrect given your lack of breed knowledge. Why should you be the moderator for this subject? If there was more support would you the self-appointed moderator allow the image to be updated (Corrected)? --[[User:Dogperson3d|Dogperson3d]] 17:06, 20 August 2007 (UTC) |
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:Not to run to VanTucky's defense (as I'm sure he can take care of himself), but I see four other editors above that are concerned with the quality of the photo, not the "quality" of the breed representation. Again, the images included (especially the lead image) should be of good quality, whichever dog it shows. --[[User:Evb-wiki|Evb-wiki]] 17:12, 20 August 2007 (UTC) |
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::I agree... It was a weak image but there will be some very clean images found in the common area soon to choose from! We should all agree on an image that would represent the breed better than the current one. I am new to wikipedia and it has been noted that it is better to discuss changes prior to just making them. There is unquestionably a learning curve here that I need to address personally. I want to do things correctly. :o) --[[User:Dogperson3d|Dogperson3d]] 17:15, 20 August 2007 (UTC) |
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:::Good deal. Please don't feel this issue is time-sensitive or that consensus is set in stone. If another lead image is proposed, I (for one) would consider it with an open mind. --[[User:Evb-wiki|Evb-wiki]] 17:45, 20 August 2007 (UTC) |
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::::Understood and I believe that most like minded people would also consider a new image. --[[User:Dogperson3d|Dogperson3d]] 20:21, 20 August 2007 (UTC) |
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:::::Certainly Dogsperson. I want to echo what evb has said previously. I'm not in love with the present image, it's not very interesting, but changing it to another image simply because it doesn't fit the "breed standard" is just not okay. If you can find a different image that is of very high quality and represents a dog you feel looks better, than I'd be very open to making a change. But I want to make it clear that I am in no way a "moderator" or authority figure in the Wikipedia community. I'm not even an [[WP:SYSOP|administrator]]. I'm just one vocal user. Decisions here are made by [[WP:CONSENSUS|consensus]], so I was jumping and voicing my opinion about the application of policy in this decision. [[User:VanTucky|<span style="color:#E49B0F">VanTucky</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:VanTucky|(talk)]]</sup> 20:31, 20 August 2007 (UTC) |
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::::::Gotcha! Like I said, I'm handicapped by my learning curve here and I definitely wanna play by the rules! Thanks for the insightful discussion. <small>([[User talk:Dogperson3d|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Dogperson3d|contribs]]</small>--[[User:Dogperson3d|Dogperson3d]] 21:07, 20 August 2007 (UTC) |
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== Giant shepherd & Shiloh Shepherd == |
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In the Article under the Appearance heading there is reference to Giant shepherd & Shiloh Shepherd. |
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I beleive that ====Giant shepherd & Shiloh Shepherd==== should not even be referenced on this page since they are not truly German Shepherds. I would like to see it removed. Comments? --[[User:Dogperson3d|Dogperson3d]] 18:10, 27 August 2007 (UTC) |
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:Unfortunately, though in some aspects I tend to agree, that is not supported by reliable sources. To maintain a [[WP:NPOV|neutral point of view]] on the subject, a discussion of all sub-types of the breed should be included. Even if some dispute their status. A another good example is of the white shepherd issue. Most advocates of that dog would like it removed from this article because they see the white shepherd as a completely distinct breed from the original shepherd. But because this POV (point of view) is disputed, and such a dog is called a shepherd by reliable sources, we maintain a mention of them here. It would be a violation of this stance of [[WP:NPOV|NPOV]] to remove any mention of the Shiloh Shepherd simply because the mainstream discounts it. [[User:VanTucky|<span style="color:#E49B0F">VanTucky</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:VanTucky|(talk)]]</sup> 17:48, 29 August 2007 (UTC) |
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::So, you prefer to not mention King Shepherds at all then? [[User:TShilo12|Tomer]][[User talk:TShilo12|<sup style="font-variant: small-caps; color: #129dbc!important;">talk</sup>]] 03:48, 18 November 2007 (UTC) |
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:::I would say that it is not a German Shepherd Dog in either name or appearance and should have it's own separate section. This breed is an attempt to create an entirely different breed and while they may have used some German Shepherd blood in the breed it is not a German Shepherd dog. [[User:Inadarkroom|Inadarkroom]] ([[User talk:Inadarkroom|talk]]) 23:55, 25 February 2008 (UTC) |
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== Unsubstantiated assertations about working GSDs == |
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In the section regarding temperment, [[user:Piercetheorganist]] makes the assertion that working GSD's can not be left around children or other household pets and must be locked away in a kennel at night; then euthanized when they are no longer capable of working.... This is a misconception and he has reverted my edits when I attempted to remove these inaccuracies. [http://members.aol.com/k9raul/page6.html] is a website tribute to a retired old K9 officer. I add only as background to show the extreme bond between handler and dog. All the dog handlers I have ever known bring their dogs home with them and they are a part of the household. They would not be competent and capable police dogs if they couldn't be good around kids and other pets. I have a pair of 12 year old retired search and rescue dogs that are living out their golden years in my house; they weren't euthanized by the police force. I humbly request some fair and non-POV look at these edits. thanks! --[[User:Siriusfarm|Tom]] ([[User talk:Siriusfarm|talk]]) 00:07, 20 November 2007 (UTC) |
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:I wasn't speaking about police work; I was speaking specifically about the U.S. Air Force, and the dogs used to guard missile silos. I thought I had already made that clear, Siriusfarm. [[User:Piercetheorganist|Piercetheorganist]] ([[User talk:Piercetheorganist|talk]]) 04:23, 20 November 2007 (UTC) |
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::Well, you did not mention the United States Air Force but that does not give you leave to make up information. I called the Vohne Liche Kennels in Indiana, which is one of the premier dog training facilities in the U.S. and spoke with Ken Licklider. Licklider retired from the Air Force after 27 years and was a dog trainer and kennel master for the U.S. Air Force before starting his own business. In fact, if you want to be a U.S. Military kennel master, you must pass his training regimen! He said that your assumptions are not founded in truth, are contrary to U.S. Air Force regulation and policy. He said that the kind of dogs you are talking about are found most often in junk yards and warehouses that are run by unscrupulous dog owners. I don't want to be confrontational but I don't believe your assertions are factual. Here is the base docuement for military working dogs - DoD Directive NUMBER 5200.31E, dated March 29, 2006, from Under Secretary of Defense (Intelligence) SUBJECT: DoD Military Working Dog (MWD) Program. From there you will find all the references to every aspect of the military working dog program. I also checked with U.S. Army Major Sheryl Sofaly, the senior working dog veterinarian at Fort Hood Texas, to see if the US had changed its regulations. She said that the regulation requires that a military k-9 be deployed in partnership with a human handler at all times. --[[User:Siriusfarm|Tom]] ([[User talk:Siriusfarm|talk]]) 11:55, 20 November 2007 (UTC) |
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::::Whatever dude, I have it on good authority that you're wrong, but you seem to care about this a whole lot more than I do. Go for it; invent your preferred reality. [[User:Piercetheorganist|Piercetheorganist]] ([[User talk:Piercetheorganist|talk]]) 21:48, 20 November 2007 (UTC) |
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::: And one last question, which agency or police departments acquire "conformation-line" dogs? Why would a police department prefer a conformation-line to a working line GSD? They don't. They employ dogs which have a working rating. --[[User:Siriusfarm|Tom]] ([[User talk:Siriusfarm|talk]]) 12:02, 20 November 2007 (UTC) |
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::::I already listed that in the article -- the DoD, the US Marshals, Customs, and the ATF. [[User:Piercetheorganist|Piercetheorganist]] ([[User talk:Piercetheorganist|talk]]) 21:48, 20 November 2007 (UTC) |
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::: From the Military Working Dog (MWD) Program, Dept of the Army Pamphlet 190-12 here are the regulations on euthenasia, and no it is not performed "as a matter of protocol" as was suggested. Approval must be received in writing from the first field grade officer in the chain of command. |
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1–23. Disposition of disabled dogs |
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When an MWD becomes incapacitated and can no longer perform services beneficial to the Government, euthanasia of |
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the dog is authorized. |
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a. Dogs are considered incapacitated and may undergo euthanasia: |
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(1) To end suffering from diseases, injury, or permanent physical disability. |
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(2) To prevent the spread of a contagious disease. |
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(3) When they are fractious or too vicious for retraining. |
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(4) When they are not fit to work because of medical or physical disabilities associated with old age. |
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(5) When they cease to be effective. |
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b. Dogs do not undergo euthanasia solely because of advanced age if they continue to be physically capable of |
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performing useful duty. |
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c. Before a dog undergoes euthanasia, written approval must be obtained form the first field grade rank (Major or |
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above) commander in the supervisory chain of command of the unit owning the dog. A letter recommending euthanasia |
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identifies the dog by name and tattoo number and specifies the reason for the recommendation. If the reason is |
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medical, the recommendation must be supported by a physical evaluation from a veterinarian. The commander |
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approves or disapproves the euthanasia by endorsement of the letter of recommendation. |
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d. The veterinarian may euthanize a dog without prior written approval of the appropriate commander in an |
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emergency when a delay would cause undue suffering and pain to the dog. In this case, the veterinarian will document |
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the circumstances and necessity for euthanasia by writing a letter to the appropriate commander. |
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e. Whenever a dog undergoes euthanasia, all medical and service records pertaining to the dog are sent to the 341st |
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Military Working Dog Training Squadron where these records are maintained in a central records repository. <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Siriusfarm|Siriusfarm]] ([[User talk:Siriusfarm|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Siriusfarm|contribs]]) 12:33, 20 November 2007 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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:Thank you, Siriusfarm, that is *exactly* what I was talking about ("When they are fractious or too vicious for retraining.") -- the types of GSDs used by the military for extremely high-importance guarding operations are, of course, those sorts of vicious dogs who will rip the throat out of anyone other than their handler on sight. [[User:Piercetheorganist|Piercetheorganist]] ([[User talk:Piercetheorganist|talk]]) 21:51, 20 November 2007 (UTC) |
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== "Allsatin herders" == |
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The intro refers to "Allsatin herders" as another name - shouldn't that be "Alsatian herders"? --[[User:Ukexpat|ukexpat]] ([[User talk:Ukexpat|talk]]) 20:35, 12 February 2008 (UTC) |
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== Appearance in national breed lines == |
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I cleaned up the section entitled appearance in national breed lines. I tried to remain as subjective as possible without interjecting any personal feelings toward any type. More editing will be required and it may need to be cleaned up a little more. Just make sure to remain neutral, not putting one breed type above another in working ability or confirmation quality. |
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Before I edited this section there were only three types listed including Czech, American and DDR. I had to add the West German lines and consolidate Czech into the Easter European lines. |
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[[User:Inadarkroom|Inadarkroom]] ([[User talk:Inadarkroom|talk]]) 21:41, 20 February 2008 (UTC) |
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Any other ideas? 05:01, 22 February 2008 (UTC) <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Inadarkroom|Inadarkroom]] ([[User talk:Inadarkroom|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Inadarkroom|contribs]]) </small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot |
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==NPOV tag==http://www.example.com link title |
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DerRichter - I removed the NPOV tag which was placed on the article with [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=German_Shepherd_Dog&diff=next&oldid=191542168 this edit] it was never explained and it seems unreasonable to explain why the tag should be taken off if it was never explained why it was applied in the first place. --~~~~ |
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== Closest relative to gray wolf? == |
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I read in an encyclopedia called ''Animal Fact File...(something or other)'' that the GSD is the domestic animal closest related to the gray wolf. Anyone have some facts to back me up on this? --~~~~ {{subst:Unsigned|1=Raciep|2=01:40, 20 March 2008 (UTC)}} <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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== Closest relative to gray wolf? == |
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I read in an encyclopedia called ''Animal Fact File...(something or other)'' that the GSD is the domestic animal closest related to the gray wolf. Anyone have some facts to back me up on this? --[[User:Raciep|RACiEP]] ([[User talk:Raciep|talk]]) 01:42, 20 March 2008 (UTC) |
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There are rumors that there was some interbreeding with wolves in the eraly days of the breed, but only rumors. It's probably not the closest relative anymore, that would be the wolfdogs, but I think it's one of the breeds who are closer related to the grey wolf.--[[User:Inugami-bargho|Inugami-bargho]] ([[User talk:Inugami-bargho|talk]]) 13:48, 17 May 2008 (UTC) |
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== Killed after 8 years of Service? == |
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I have been told by some people that German Shepherds become weak at their main job after 8 years, is this true? German Shepherds are killed "humanely" by electricity which causes them to die in .3 seconds, apparently that's humane. To add some tears...to the dog as well the dogs are known to cry as they're being dragged away after the electrocuted death, if this information is true that is. [[User:Thecutnut|Thecutnut]] ([[User talk:Thecutnut|talk]]) 07:21, 21 March 2008 (UTC) |
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:where on the wold is this supposed to happen? and who does this? the dogs are used by so many organisations woldwide, it is possible some do such a thing, but i do not think it is a common practice. and why only with this kind of dogs? [[User:Elvis|Elvis]] ([[User talk:Elvis|talk]]) 12:13, 19 May 2008 (UTC) |
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== 'The Alsatian Herders' == |
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Apart from the inherent clumsiness of the opening sentence which makes the breed sound like a band, I have never, ever heard them called 'Alsatian Herder' and most certainly not 'The Alsatian Herder'. People in the UK simply say 'Alsatian'. <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/62.22.72.99|62.22.72.99]] ([[User talk:62.22.72.99|talk]]) 14:28, 26 March 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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::I agree, the first paragraph is extremely clumsy. If it is like this after bit, I think that I'll have a go at trying to make it flow a bit better.--[[User:Siriusfarm|Tom]] ([[User talk:Siriusfarm|talk]]) 01:24, 19 April 2008 (UTC) |
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++79/ <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/76.0.200.84|76.0.200.84]] ([[User talk:76.0.200.84|talk]]) 03:59, 20 May 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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Latest revision as of 22:56, 12 April 2024
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Wiki Education assignment: Writing 2[edit]
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 28 December 2022 and 17 May 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): .octopat1 (article contribs).
— Assignment last updated by .octopat1 (talk) 02:22, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion[edit]
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 17:53, 13 May 2023 (UTC)
Variants[edit]
Why is the variant section included in this? We don't list crossbreeds and offshoots in other articles. Examples: the crossbreed Labradoodle is not mentioned in Labrador Retriever or Poodle (except in passing in the "see also" segment of poodle), nor is the breed Alaskan Klee Kai included in Alaskan husky. I do not own a copy of Hancock's book, but I'm really surprised by this. The East European Shepherd is a Russian breed whose foundational stock was German Shepherds 100 years ago.[1] King Shepherds and Shiloh Shepherds are notably crossbreeds, although the Shiloh Shepherd is now establishing as a new breed/breed in development.[2] And White shepherds and White Swiss Shepherds have their own page. Annwfwn (talk) 16:49, 23 November 2023 (UTC) Annwfwn (talk) 16:49, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
References
- ^ Morris, Desmond (2001). Dogs: the ultimate dictionary of over 1,000 dog breeds. North Pomfret, VT: Trafalgar Square Publishing. pp. 446–447. ISBN 1-57076-219-8.
- ^ "How is a Shiloh different from a German or King shepherd?". www.shiloh-shepherd.com. Retrieved 2023-11-23.
Pituitary dwarfism[edit]
@Justlettersandnumbers the section I wrote did get a bit large but I figured it wasn't undue given the other section being 50% larger and most of that section being generic dog specific health. I have looked at it and there's some information that isn't needed such as the Weimaraner sentence and reducing some content like the stuff on genes. I did quite a detailed description as there's no page for the article to link to for further reading. I've got two solutions: first is to slightly reduce some content as I identified. The second would be to significantly reduce the content and create an article for the condition. I believe it meets notability but I am not completely sure. Some non-medical sources for notability include a book [1] and some news articles on dwarf German Shepherds [1] [2][3]
I'd like to hear your thoughts. Traumnovelle (talk) 02:55, 27 March 2024 (UTC) Traumnovelle (talk) 02:55, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
- I must apologise, Traumnovelle, I had forgotten that User:Sacristy is also you. I have no special expertise in this area, nor any clear idea how significant this topic is to this breed (compared to, say, the high incidence of dysplasia of the hip brought about by generations of misguided selective breeding for a stance that makes the unfortunate animals look deformed). Just my 2 eurocents: this is TMI for this page, where there should probably be no more than a brief mention and a blue link. Not sure that a stand-alone article is needed: at the moment Pituitary dwarfism redirects to Growth hormone deficiency, not sure if that or Hypopituitarism is the better target, but in either case it should be straightforward to start a new section for animals. Or add it to the list of dog diseases? I wouldn't worry about non-medical sources myself – the scientific material should be sufficient. Regards, Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 13:59, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
- It's not a common condition but I'd say the public interest in dwarf German Shepherds as a 'cute' thing and the fact the mutation originated in the breed with all other cases being from breeds with German Shepherd lineage makes it relevant/notable to the breed. I've reduced the paragraphs to three and the word count is more than halved now. Traumnovelle (talk) 17:17, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
Wiki Education assignment: Introduction to Community Economic and Social Development II[edit]
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 9 January 2024 and 12 April 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Rajatrana1 (article contribs).
— Assignment last updated by Rajatrana1 (talk) 22:56, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- ^ Walker, Joan Hustace (2011-12-15). Everything German Shepherd Book. Simon and Schuster. p. 62. ISBN 978-1-60550-920-4.