Wikipedia:Reference desk/Humanities and GOS (operating system): Difference between pages

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{{primarysources|date=August 2008}}
[[Category:Non-talk pages that are automatically signed]]{{Wikipedia:Reference desk/header|WP:RD/H}}
{{Cleanup|date=January 2008}}
[[Category:Wikipedia help forums]]
{{lowercase}}
[[Category:Wikipedia resources for researchers]]
{{Infobox OS
| name = '''gOS 3.0 gadgets'''
| screenshot = [[Image:Gos gadgets widgets.jpg|300px]]
| caption = Current Distribution, gOS 3.0, is based off Ubuntu 8.04 LTS (Herdy Heron)
| website = [http://www.thinkgos.com/ www.thinkgos.com]
| developer = Good OS LLC
| family = [[Linux]]
| latest_release_version = 3.0 "Gadgets"
| latest_release_date = {{release date|2008|09|23}}
| latest_test_version =
| latest_test_date =
| Preview_release =
| kernel_type = [[Ubuntu]]/[[Debian]], ([[Linux]])
| ui = [[GNOME]] + [[Avant Window Navigator]]
| license =
| working_state = Current
| supported_platforms = [[x86 architecture|x86]], Netbooks
}}


'''gOS''' or "good OS" is an [[operating system]] created by 'Good OS LLC', a [[Los Angeles]]-based corporation. The company initially advertised it as "An alternative OS with [[Google Apps]] and other [[Web 2.0]] apps for the modern user." This first version gOS (1.0.1_386) was based on [[Ubuntu (operating system)|Ubuntu]] 7.10 and the [[Enlightenment (window manager)|Enlightenment]] window manager E17.<ref>{{cite web
{{Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Archives/Humanities/2008 September 29}}
| title = gOS 1 at linuxquestions.org
| url =http://iso.linuxquestions.org/gos/gos-1.0.1/
}}</ref>


On [[January 7]], [[2008]], a test version (2.0.0-beta1) of gOS, intended to demonstrate the Everex [[CloudBook]] at the 2008 [[Consumer Electronics Show]], and named "gOS Rocket", was released. This version was also E17 based.<ref>{{cite web
{{Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Archives/Humanities/2008 September 30}}
| last = Babcock
| first = Charles
| title = Rocket Linux To Launch At CES
| publisher = InformationWeek
| date = 2008-01-03
| url = http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=205208008
| accessdate = 2008-01-10
}}</ref> The definitive second version of gOS debuted at the end February 2008,together with the launch of [[Everex]]'s new CloudBook, the [[gBook]] laptop, and a new, second version of the gPC, the "encore".<ref>[http://www.everex.com/products/gpc2/gpc2.htm the gPC2 at Everex]</ref> This version was called gOS V2 Rocket, and was completely rewritten and now based on the [[GNOME]] window manager, [[Compiz fusion]], and the [[Avant Window Navigator]]<ref>[http://www.insidesocal.com/click/2008/02/heard_at_scale_6x_the_everex_c.html announcement that gOS rocket will be based on Gnome, not E17]</ref>.


On [[April 6]], [[2008]], Good OS launched a publicly available version of gOS, called gOS 2.9 "Space", intended for the [[gPC mini]],<ref>[http://www.everex.com/products/gpc_mini/gpc_mini.htm the gPC mini at Everex]</ref> This version is based on Compiz fusion, Gnome, and the Avant Window Navigator [[Dock (computing)|dock]] manager, but also uses E17 code. It has a Dock with a "[[Stacks (software)|stack]]" very much like the "fan view" of [[Mac OS X v10.5]].<ref>[http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/opensource/?p=237 gOS space at techrepublic.com]</ref>
{{Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Archives/Humanities/2008 October 1}}


On [[September 23]], [[2008]] Good OS launched gOS 3 Gadgets, which is described by Good OS, as "The third and best version of gOS to date, Perfect for Netbooks". It is still based on GNOME but uses a new dock called the '''Wbar'''. It introduces the full support for [[Wine (software)|Wine]] 1.0, and [[Google Gadgets]].
= October 2 =


== Design ==
== Psychological self-treatment ==
gOS is based on the [[Ubuntu (operating system)|Ubuntu]] 7.10 distribution and a GUI largely imitative of [[Mac OS X Leopard]]. The earlier versions (1 and 2-beta) used the [[Enlightenment (window manager)|Enlightenment]] 17 window manager instead of the usual [[GNOME]] or [[KDE]] desktops, to create a desktop that had similar usability to [[Mac OS X]]. Enlightenment acts both as an [[X window manager]], and as a [[desktop environment]]. Therefore early versions of gOS worked on systems as low end as a 350&nbsp;MHz Pentium II with 196 MB of RAM,<ref> 196 MB was needed to install gOS through the Live CD, but it ran on as little RAM as 128MB when installed, or when running from the Live CD</ref> but a typical gOS system would have used as a minimum a 1&nbsp;GHz [[Pentium III]] with 256 MB RAM. After gOS2-beta the later versions of gOS abandoned the use as Enlightenment as desktop manager (although some E17 code still seems to be used), in favour of using GNOME, with Compiz Fusion and the [[Avant Window Navigator]]. This increased the need for memory to values similar to normal Ubuntu.


Based on the idea of [[cloud computing]], all versions of gOS lean heavily on on-line applications built on Web 2.0 and [[Ajax (programming)|AJAX]] technology so they also do not use much hard disk space for applications. The whole gOS-1 system fits comfortably in less than 2 GB. Also many of the documents created with gOS, such as [[Google Docs]] documents, can be saved on Google servers instead of on the local hard disk, so gOS can work with very small hard disks. In gOS V2 Rocket, Good OS introduced the use of Google's "[[Google Gears]]" technology which promises to make Google's [[web application]]s usable without an internet connection.<ref>[http://www.linuxelectrons.com/news/linux/15642/linux-based-gos-2-0-will-debut-monday Linux Based gOS 2.0 Will Debut on Monday | LinuxElectrons<!-- Bot generated title -->]</ref> Currently, [[Google Reader]] and [[Google Docs]] are the only supported Google applications, though other web applications such as [[Remember the Milk]] have added Google Gears functionality.
Suppose a psychiatrist/psychologist has, say, bulimia. Would they be able to treat themself, or would they have to see another mental-health specialist? I know a psychiatrist could write for his own medication, I suppose, but as far as psychotherapy, can it be performed successfully on oneself? Thanks!--[[User:El aprendelenguas|El aprendelenguas]] ([[User talk:El aprendelenguas|talk]]) 05:12, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
:Treating yourself for something psychological would pretty much defeat the purpose, wouldn't it? '''[[User:Grsz11|<font color="black">Grsz</font>]][[User talk:Grsz11|<b><font color="red"><sup>X</sup></font></b>]]''' 05:55, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
::Lots of people talk to themselves. I's very soothing :) Why do you think such self help would not work? Most people give up cigarettes by themselves whatever the advertisers say. [[User:Dmcq|Dmcq]] ([[User talk:Dmcq|talk]]) 07:34, 2 October 2008 (UTC)


gOS Rocket's primary features include a Mac OS X-like [[Dock (computing)|Dock]] called iTask-NG (also called'the Launcher'), containing icons to launch prams like the [[Mozilla Firefox|Firefox]] web browser, [[Rhythmbox]] audio player, [[Xine]] video player and [[Skype]] for Internet telephony. there are also options to open many Google- based web application like [[Gmail|Google Mail]],[[Google Docs]],[[Google Calendar]],[[Google Maps]]. Other programs can be added to the Launcher as well. The first E17 based version of gOS used another Dock-style interface called the iBar.
:I would suspect that if you have got to the point of requiring to see a pyschiatrist (as a trained professional pyschiatrist yourself) then you would be having trouble dealing with your problem on your own. An example from tv (not ideal but shows it happens) is in [[The Sopranos]] where Tony Soprano's pyschiatrist regularly goes to see a pyschiatrist herself. Often from being removed from the situation you can better judge a remedy. If you 'live' the experience then it will be harder to remove yourself from your thoughts/feelings and make an accurate diagnosis.[[Special:Contributions/194.221.133.226|194.221.133.226]] ([[User talk:194.221.133.226|talk]]) 09:00, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
:<s>If it were something minor, like biting one's fingernails, then self-treatment would probably be okay. But</s> for something as serious as bulimia, a psychiatrist who treats him or herself has a fool for a client. [[User:Clarityfiend|Clarityfiend]] ([[User talk:Clarityfiend|talk]]) 09:17, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
While we're on the topic, can dentists fix their own teeth? --[[Special:Contributions/124.254.77.148|124.254.77.148]] ([[User talk:124.254.77.148|talk]]) 11:32, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
::This thread reminds me of a dialogue from [http://www.script-o-rama.com/movie_scripts/b/barton-fink-script-screenplay.html Barton Fink]:
::<small>DEUTSCH: He's a little funny in the head.
::BARTON: What did . . . What did he -
::MASTRIONOTTI: Funny. As in, he likes to ventilate people with a shotgun and then cut their heads off.
::DEUTSCH: Yeah, he's funny that way.
::BARTON: I ...
::MASTRIONOTTI: Started in Kansas City. Couple of housewives.
::DEUTSCH: Couple of days ago we see the same M.O. out in Los Feliz.
::MASTRIONOTTI: Doctor. Ear, nose and throat man.
::DEUTSCH: All of which he's now missin'.
::MASTRIONOTTI: Well, some of his throat was there.
::DEUTSCH: Physician, heal thyself.
::MASTRIONOTTI: Good luck with no fuckin' head.</small>
::[[Special:Contributions/194.171.56.13|194.171.56.13]] ([[User talk:194.171.56.13|talk]]) 11:54, 2 October 2008 (UTC)


Other installed programs can be started through menus, among the most important is the photo and picture editing program [[the GIMP]], the document viewer [[Evince]], and the [[OpenOffice.org]] office suite. More programs can be installed using the built-in [[Synaptic Package Manager]].<ref name = "add/remove"">gOS 1.0.1 had Ubuntu's easy to use "add/remove" application installer, but was missing in gOS 2-beta. However the synaptic package manager is available in both versions.</ref>
:::My understanding of psychology is far from complete, but I guess what I'm trying to ask is, for serious mental disorders that require clinical psychologically attention (e.g. anorexia, bulimia, schizophrenia), could a psychiatrist/psychologist treat himself/herself? Or is it something about the nature of the mind and mental disorders that requires an external perspective to treat? Or does the knowledge they have of psychology make them "immune" to such diseases? That's my basic question. On a side note, what about less serious disorders like phobias? And can a psychologist perform cognitive behavioral therapy on himself/herself? Thanks!--[[User:El aprendelenguas|El aprendelenguas]] ([[User talk:El aprendelenguas|talk]]) 19:42, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
::::They could certainly self-prescribe medication to some degree (though I don't know about the legality of that). Whether they'd be able to rationally recognize and diagnose their own schizophrenia, for example, would depend on the degree to which they could be really rational about it. Certainly an education in psychology does not make one "immune" to diseases which are strongly biochemical and potentially genetic in origin. --[[Special:Contributions/98.217.8.46|98.217.8.46]] ([[User talk:98.217.8.46|talk]]) 22:23, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
It depends, it is possible to do some things on your own. You can, for example, hypnotize yourself to a certain extent. However, a lot of therapy methods see talking about the problem with others as an important part of the process. [[User:Wrad|Wrad]] ([[User talk:Wrad|talk]]) 00:37, 3 October 2008 (UTC)


== Versions ==
Psychological self-treatment might be like "Every day, in every way, I'm getting better and better." Or, self hypnosis. [[User:DOR (HK)|DOR (HK)]] ([[User talk:DOR (HK)|talk]]) 01:50, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
===gOS 1.0.1===
[[Image:800px-Gos1.0.1desktop.gif|thumb|200px|left|gOS 1.0.1 desktop]]
'''gOS 1.0.1''' was introduced on [[November 1]], [[2007]], preinstalled on the Everex Green gPC TC2502 sold at [[Wal-Mart]].<ref>{{cite web
| last=Needleman
| first=Rafe
| date=2007-10-31
| title=Almost the Google PC: Everex gPC available at Wal-Mart
| url=http://www.webware.com/8301-1_109-9807133-2.html?tag=cnetfd.mt
| accessdate=2008-01-10
}}</ref> gOS 1.0.1 fully supported the advanced [[Power management]] capabilities of the gPC TC2502, so the system could be put in suspend mode and after turning on again was ready in a few seconds.


In December 2007, [[PC Club]] followed suit and reintroduced their [[Enpower]] Fuzion desktop<ref>
:I don't see any problem about a psychologist treating his winter depression. In the case of schizophrenia, however, perhaps he is so dysfunctional that he is not even able to have coherent thoughts. [[User:Mr.K.|Mr.K.]] [[User_talk:Mr.K.|(talk)]] 09:49, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
{{cite web
| title = ENFZ07 ENPOWER FUZION07
| publisher = PC Club
| url = http://www.enpower.com/showSystemSpec.cfm?id=ENFZ07
| accessdate = 2008-01-10
}}</ref> for sale with gOS installed for $189, which is their second system to include a Linux distribution since their controversial temporary inclusion of [[Linspire]] (then LindowsOS) in late 2003/early 2004<ref>{{cite web
| date=2003-09-03
| location=San Diego
| publisher=Lindows.com Inc
| url=http://www.linspire.com/lindows_news_pressreleases_archives.php?id=64
| title=PC Club Announces Largest Linux Launch With More Than 50 Retail Stores Now Carrying LindowsOS Computers
| accessdate=2008-01-10
}}</ref> and the sale of the Empower Essence system with Ubuntu during the month of June 2007.


Everex followed on by creating the [[CloudBook]], a laptop based on the VIA [[NanoBook]] reference. The CloudBook was bundled with gOS Rocket with a hint that later versions would include a touchscreen. At an RRP of $400, it was to compete with the ASUS [[Eee PC]] in the cheap miniature Laptop space.<ref>[http://clumpc.com/?p=9 Walmart takes on the EeePC with Cloudbook » CLUMPC<!-- Bot generated title -->]</ref><ref>{{cite web
:They could have a go at various purely psychological treatments (how successfully would depend on a lot of variables), but no doctor is allowed to prescribe their own medication (at least, not in any country I'm aware of). --[[User:Tango|Tango]] ([[User talk:Tango|talk]]) 16:51, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
|last= Shah
|first= Agam
|url=http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/139196/everex_readies_sub300_linux_notebooks.html
|title=Everex Readies Sub-$300 Linux Notebooks
|accessdate=2007-11-08 |date=[[2007-11-02]]
|publisher=pcworld}}</ref> Less well known is the fact that Everex simultaneously also worked on a more classic notebook, called the gBook, and on the [[Mac mini]] like gPC mini all designed to run gOS v2.<ref>[http://cafelinux.org/gosforum/index.php/topic,341.0.html gBook details on the official gOS forum]</ref>


Online vendor [[ClubIT.com]] offered a [[RoHS]]-compliant [[VIA C7]] developer board bundled with gOS.<ref>{{cite web
There are a lot of things a shrink could do for himself that wouldn't necessarily require actual therapy -- supposing, of course, that the problem in question isn't one that makes it too difficult to evaluate his own condition in a realistic manner. For example, many conditions can be improved or avoided simply by avoiding problem behavior and situations: if you are prone to debilitating social anxiety in certain circumstances, for example, you can make sure you avoid the kind of situations that are likely to trigger those events and monitor your own emotional state so you can spot the warning signs. This kind of thing can often have a kind of a self-perpetuating effect, as learning to read your own mental state can bestow a feeling of control, which in turn makes it easier to function without triggering the condition, which increases your feeling of control... That kind of thing doesn't necessarily require any help from anyone, if you're familiar with the techniques. A lot of the help you get for mental conditions isn't necessarily so much about curing the condition as it is about learning to live with it and control it by various means. But that certainly wouldn't work for every condition (schizophrenia, for example, would most likely be extremely difficult, if not impossible to self-treat), and not everyone would have the willpower or even the awareness to do this, even if their condition was one that could be self-treated. The original poster's example was bulimia. I'm sure that would be a really tough nut to crack, but there ''are'' people who have beaten eating disorders on their own, and having an in-depth understanding of the illness and the way the human mind tends to work would surely be an asset. I wouldn't recommend that anyone go it alone, you understand, but I don't think it'd be impossible. -- [[User:Captain Disdain|Captain Disdain]] ([[User talk:Captain Disdain|talk]]) 01:29, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
| title=VIA Motherboard Bundle
| url=http://clubit.com/product_detail.cfm?itemno=A4842001
| accessdate=2008-01-10
}}</ref>


== Nigerian press ==
===gOS 2-beta (gOS Rocket E)===
[[Image:GOS Rocket desktop.jpg|thumb|200px|gOS Rocket E desktop]]
On [[2008-01-07]], Good OS LLC released a beta of the second version of gOS, called '''"gOS-live-2.0.0-beta1"''' and nicknamed "Rocket". However this version did not seem to be a valid replacement for rev 1.0.1 as it was missing some essential functions, such as hardware and system administration tools, and the easy to use application installer "Add/Remove".<ref name =add/remove"/> It also missed the capability to access CDs and hard-disk partitions other than its own. The demo version status of this version became extra apparent when the new Everex [[CloudBook]] which was due to debut January 25, 2008 was delayed for a month to allow Good OS time to re-write this second version of gOS for the CloudBook ,gBook. and second version of the gPC<ref>[http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&taxonomyName=networking_and_internet&articleId=9059060&taxonomyId=16 Software 'tweaks,' Chinese new year delay Everex CloudBook]</ref> On [[April 11]], 2008, Good OS released an updated version of gOS Rocket E.<ref>[http://dev.thinkgos.com/blog/gos-rocket-e-and-g-are-online gOS - Discover a Good OS<!-- Bot generated title -->]</ref> In addition, a fan of gOS has also released an unauthorized remaster of gOS Rocket E which includes the aforementioned system administration tools and drive mounting as well as the [[Thunar]] file manager<ref>[http://darthchaosofrspw.wordpress.com/2008/06/15/gos-ultimate-e-now-available-for-download/ gOS Ultimate E now available for download]</ref>.


===gOS V2 Rocket (gOS Rocket G)===
what role Nigerian press and media played over Bakassi issue <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/195.166.237.254|195.166.237.254]] ([[User talk:195.166.237.254|talk]]) 14:50, 2 October 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:Our [[Bakassi]] article says the decision to transfer sovereignty of the region to [[Cameroon]] aroused anger in the Nigerian media. --[[User:TotoBaggins|Sean]] 20:29, 2 October 2008 (UTC)


[[Image:Awn screenshot.png|thumb|300px|[[Avant Window Navigator]]]]
== Dass local government ==
Later it became apparent that the month was needed because Everex had decided that future versions of gOS for the Cloudbook, gBook and gPC2, would use the GNOME desktop environment, instead of E17. It was announced that this version would also be called "Rocket", to be precise '''gOS V2 "Rocket"''', (this version would also be offered to new gPC2 users)<ref>[http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/24070 gOS for the Cloudbook to use GNOME]</ref><ref>http://cafelinux.org/gosforum/index.php/topic,308.msg1351/topicseen.html#msg1351 conformation by development team that the CloudBook will use a GNOME based gOS</ref><ref>http://blog.laptopmag.com/category/cloudbook first unwrapping of an early CloudBook</ref> and would use the [[Avant Window Navigator]] system to create a [[dock]] to resemble the older gOS versions in looks and functionality. Until the launch of gOS 2.9 this version was '''not''' available as a [[Live CD]], but only to CloudBook owners. But after the launch of 2.9 it has now also become available as a Live_CD download from one of the mirrors as found on the Good OS web-site. This version is now referenced to as "gOS rocket G" ("G" for Gnome) to distinguish it from the older beta version now called "gOS rocket E", which is also still available for download.<ref>[http://dev.thinkgos.com/downloads/gos-rocketG gOS - Discover a Good OS<!-- Bot generated title -->]</ref>
<small>Moved from [[WP:RD/E#Dass local government|Entertainment ref desk]] [[User:Astronaut|Astronaut]] ([[User talk:Astronaut|talk]]) 18:15, 2 October 2008 (UTC)</small>


===gOS 2.9 Space===
what is the history of Dass local government area of Bauchi state,Nigeria.[[Special:Contributions/195.166.237.254|195.166.237.254]] ([[User talk:195.166.237.254|talk]]) 16:07, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
[[Image:GOS space.png|thumb|200px|gOS Space]]
gOS 2.9 Space became available as a generic [[Linux distribution]] on April 7, 2008, and is a debugged and extended version of the older gOS V2 Rocket G. It can be downloaded as an .ISO<ref>[http://dev.thinkgos.com/downloads gOS - Discover a Good OS<!-- Bot generated title -->]</ref> that can be burned on a DVD (it's slightly too large for a CD), or can be put on another external bootable medium such as a [[memory stick]] or [[Secure Digital card]] reader acting as an external USB drive, with enough capacity. A gOS 2.9 DVD was also announced to be sold from The Good OS store on their website, but until now has not become available.<ref>[http://dev.thinkgos.com/store gOS - Discover a Good OS<!-- Bot generated title -->]</ref> gOS Space is loaded with new MySpace features, but all the existing Google applications can still be used. As a Linux distribution, 2.9 is much more complete than 2.0-beta and is also less buggy. gOS Space is less "light" (using a small amount of memory) than older, publicly-available versions, as it's based on a combination of [[Ubuntu (operating system)|Ubuntu]] 7.10, the [[Gnome]] windows manager enhanced with [[Compiz fusion]], and the [[Avant Window Navigator]], a [[Dock (computing)|Dock]]-like launcher that has been enhanced with [[Stacks (software)|Stacks]]. According to Good OS, there is also [[Enlightenment (window manager)|Enlightenment]] code used, but its exact purpose is still unknown. In any case gOS Space needs about 384MB of RAM to work reasonably, the same amount as straight Ubuntu 7.10. When [[Ubuntu#Ubuntu 8.04 (Hardy Heron)|Ubuntu 8.04 (Hardy Heron)]] became available on April 24, 2008 it became obvious that trying to upgrade gOS 2.9 to the new Ubuntu renders it without any working [[Linux kernel|kernels]], leaving a non-working system, so upgrading gOS has been disabled by Good OS. It is not expected that this will be fixed, but that instead a new gOS (rev 3.0) will be released, based on Ubuntu 8.04.


== Open meeting vs closed meeting ==
=== gOS 2.9M Escape Pod ===
As of July 2, 2008 ''Good OS'' together with [[Osram Sylvania]] launched the '''Sylvania g netbook'''. Its similar to the original Everex CloudBook with more memory, and the trackpad and buttons have moved to the front of the device. the new system runs gOS 2.9M, a specially modified version of gOS 2.9 "space" based on Ubuntu 8.04 <ref>[http://www.thinkgos.com/ gOS - Discover a Good OS<!-- Bot generated title -->]</ref><ref>[http://sylvaniacomputers.com/ SYLVANIA G Netbook Computer<!-- Bot generated title -->]</ref>


===gOS 3.0 Gadgets===
If a meeting is open as opposed to closed, does that generally mean that non-committee members are allowed to attend only or also allowed to participate? --[[User:Seans Potato Business|Seans]] '''[[User talk:Seans Potato Business|Potato Business]]''' 18:21, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
About a month after a first beta version, the final version of gOS 3.0 was released on the gOS website on September 23, 2008. It features integrated Google Gadgets, and includes [[Wine (software)|Wine 1.0]] and [[Mozilla Prism]], and is based on the newer Ubuntu 8.04.1. This version goes "back to its roots", as it is intended for [[netbook]]s. The [[Avant Window Navigator]]'s (abbreviated '''AWN''' or '''Awn''') [[Dock (computing)|dock]]-like bar has been removed again in favor of a more "lightweight" version based on [[LXDE]] and renamed the "Wbar".<ref>http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS7428727466.html?kc=rss</ref> It is similar to the one used in the first [[Enlightenment (window manager)|Enlightenment]]-based gOS version. Currently only the main GNOME based version is available; the "Community Versions", that use other [[window manager]]s like [[LXDE]], [[XFCE]], or [[Enlightenment (window manager)|Enlightenment (E17)]] are scheduled for release by the end of the year. The gOS 3.0 Gadgets Live CD can be downloaded from the thinkgos site. [http://www.thinkgos.com/dgadgets.php]


== Upgrade problem ==
:That would probably be at the discretion of the chair. They wouldn't usually be able to vote, but they could speak if the chair invites them to. --[[User:Tango|Tango]] ([[User talk:Tango|talk]]) 18:27, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
When Ubuntu released version 8.04 ("Hardy Heron") on April 24, 2008, it became apparent that gOS (versions before gOS 2.9M Escape pod) could no longer use the update/upgrade facilities that Ubuntu offered. Any attempt to upgrade any version of gOS before version 2.9M will either fail with an "incompatible windows manager" error, or will remove all [[Linux Kernel|kernels]] from the system. Version 3.0 of gOS solves the problem, as it is actually based on Ubuntu 8.04. Good OS claims new versions of gOS won't use Ubuntu's upgrading repositories, to prevent the problem from happening again. <ref>[http://groups.google.com/group/goslinux/browse_frm/thread/67296373f8b0ff3d/e33f1431121b610e?lnk=gst&q=upgrade#e33f1431121b610e gOS upgrading problem]</ref>


== Version history table ==
:In an open meeting, the proceedings are conducted in the open, i.e., they can be observed by non-committee members or non-committee members may be invited to participate (though, who can observe or participate may be controlled). Closed meetings are conducted out of the scrutiny of outsiders with only committee members allowed to observe/participate (the minutes may be made available later though). --[[User:RegentsPark|Regents Park]] <small>([[User talk:RegentsPark|sniff out my socks]])</small> 20:14, 2 October 2008 (UTC)


{| class="wikitable"
::In Ireland, "open meeting" often means a public meeting which anyone can attend, or a sporting event which all comers can enter, but I think some organizations use it to mean a meeting that all members can attend and not just the members of the board or committee. Even at a public meeting, the rules will vary on who is allowed to participate - that is, to speak, vote, etc. So you need to find out what rules there are for the meetings you have in mind, or at least what usually happens. [[User:Strawless|Strawless]] ([[User talk:Strawless|talk]]) 23:38, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
|-
! Colour
! Meaning
|-
| style="background-color:#fa8072;" | Red
| Old release; no longer officially available
|-
| style="background-color:#f0e68c;" | Yellow
| Old release; still officially available
|-
| style="background-color:#A0E75A;" | Green
| Current release
|-
| style="background-color:#87ceeb;" | Blue
| Future release
|-
| style="background-color:#f8ffff;" | White
| Not publicly available
|}


{| class="wikitable" style="width:100%;"
== ¿ Is “ textual ” copy of the Bible ? ==
! Version (screenshots) !! Code name !! development name !! Release date !! released for !! Based on !! Freely available? || Desktop Manager !! Features and Changes
|----
| style="background-color:#fa8072;"|[http://www.thecodingstudio.com/opensource/linux/screenshots/index.php?linux_distribution_sm=gOS%201.0 1.0.1_386]
|gOS
| Painfull<!-- from memory, It could be wrong -->
|[[2007-11-01]]
|[[Everex green computers|Everex]] gPC
|[[Ubuntu (operating system)#Ubuntu 7.10 (Gutsy Gibbon)|Gutsy Gibbon]]
|Yes Live_CD
|[[Enlightenment (window manager)|E17]]
|Initial release; Based on Ubuntu 7.10 and the Enlightenment 17 Desktop environment, plus lots of Google applications
|----
| style="background-color:#fa8072;"|[http://www.thecodingstudio.com/opensource/linux/screenshots/index.php?linux_distribution_sm=gOS%202.0 2.0.1-beta1]
| gOS Rocket (E)
| Reloaded
|[[2008-01-07]]
| Everex [[CloudBook]] Demo at CES 2008
|[[Ubuntu (operating system)#Ubuntu 7.10 (Gutsy Gibbon)|Gutsy Gibbon]]
|Yes Live_CD
|[[Enlightenment (window manager)|E17]]
| Beta demo version especially developed to demonstrate with the [[Everex]] CloudBook at the 2008 [[Consumer Electronics Show]]. still based on Enlightenment 17 desktop
|----
|style="background-color:#fa8072;"|[http://www.everexstore.com/support/add_skype/add_skype.htm V2]
| gOS Rocket (G)
| Unknown
|[[2008-02-22]]
|Everex CloudBook, gBook, gPC and gPC2
|[[Ubuntu (operating system)#Ubuntu 7.10 (Gutsy Gibbon)|Gutsy Gibbon]]
|V2 NO, gOS 2G Yes
|[[GNOME]] +[[Avant Window Navigator|AWN]]
| Final version as delivered installed on the CloudBook, and later the gBook and the gPC2. '''Not''' available as a live CD until the launch of "Space". Now based on [[GNOME]] and the [[Avant Window Navigator]] and [[Compiz fusion]]
|----
| style="background-color:#f0e68c;" |[http://www.thecodingstudio.com/opensource/linux/screenshots/index.php?linux_distribution_sm=gOS%20Space%202.9 2.9]
| gOS Space
| Unknown
|[[2008-04-06]]
| Everex gPC mini
|[[Ubuntu (operating system)#Ubuntu 7.10 (Gutsy Gibbon)|Gutsy Gibbon]]
|Yes as Live_CD
|[[GNOME]] +[[Avant Window Navigator|AWN]]
| Specially promoted as a version for [[MySpace]] users, adds "stacks" to the AWN launcher, and uses MySpace applications, does not need 3D hardware to support AWN. Fits only on a live_[[DVD]]
|----
| style="background-color:#f8ffff;" |[http://sylvaniacomputers.com/products.php?p=g 2.9M]
| gOS Escape pod 2.9M
| Unknown
|[[2008-02-07]]
| [[Osram Sylvania|Sylvania]] [[g&nbsp;netbook]]
|Hardy Heron (8.04)
|No, only on g-netbook
|[[GNOME]] +[[Avant Window Navigator|AWN]]
| Specific "light" version, especially developed for netbook systems
|----
| style="background-color:#fa8072;" | [http://www.thecodingstudio.com/opensource/linux/screenshots/index.php?linux_distribution_sm=gOS%203.0%20Beta%20Gadgets 3.0 beta]
| gOS 3.0 Gadgets beta
| Aphrodite
| [[2008-08-06]]
| [[Netbook]]s
|[[Ubuntu (operating system)#Ubuntu 8.04 (Hardy Heron)|Hardy Heron (8.04.1)]]
|Yes, as live CD
| [[GNOME]] + [[LXDE]]
| Light netbook version that supports the Google desktop, including [[Google Gadgets]],<ref>http://eeepc.itrunsonlinux.com/the-news/1-latest-news/126-gos3-linux-for-netbooks</ref> and adds [[Wine (software)|Wine 1.0]], and [[Picasa]]. Fits on a [[Live CD]], but it was a beta and had a few bugs.<ref>http://groups.google.com/group/goslinux/browse_frm/thread/1154ad8ee6e3edb5</ref>
|----
| style="background-color:#A0E75A;" | [http://www.thecodingstudio.com/opensource/linux/screenshots/index.php?linux_distribution_sm=gOS%203.0%20Gadgets 3.0 final]
| gOS 3.0 Gadgets final (Gnome)
| Aphrodite
| [[2008-09-24]]
| [[Netbook]]s and [[Nettop]]s
|[[Ubuntu (operating system)#Ubuntu 8.04 (Hardy Heron)|Hardy Heron (8.04.1)]]
|Yes, as live CD
| [[GNOME]] + [[LXDE]]
| Light netbook version that supports the Google desktop, including [[Google Gadgets]],<ref>http://eeepc.itrunsonlinux.com/the-news/1-latest-news/126-gos3-linux-for-netbooks</ref> and adds [[Wine (software)|Wine 1.0]], and [[Picasa]]. Fits on a [[Live CD]]. Other "flavors" are still announced
|----
| style="background-color:#87ceeb;" | 3.0 (Community Versions)
| Unknown
| Unknown
| last quarter of 2008
| multiple platforms
| Unknown
| Unknown
| [[LXDE]], [[XFCE]] or [[Enlightenment (window manager)|E17]]
| Will come in three other "flavors", based on the lightweight desktop environments [[LXDE]] and [[XFCE]], as well as the window manager [[Enlightenment (window manager)|Enlightenment (E17)]] for memory-limited netbooks.
|}


==Live USB==
See this text, which is the correct translation?
A [[Live USB]] of gOS can be created manually or with [[UNetbootin]] <ref>[http://unetbootin.wiki.sourceforge.net/supported-distributions]</ref>.
( or From where was there extracted ? ):


== See also ==
May energy be in your spirit, strength in your resolution, gentleness in your heart, tenderness in your touch, respect on your lips, clarity in your mind and God in your soul And God said unto him, "Daniel, do you love Me or love My gifts?"
* [[Elive]] - visually somewhat similar to gOS
* [[Everex green computers]]
* [[Zonbu]]
* [[Goobuntu]]
* [[LXDE]]


== References ==
[[Special:Contributions/200.40.134.194|200.40.134.194]] ([[User talk:200.40.134.194|talk]]) 22:14, 2 October 2008 (UTC)


{{refs|2}}
:That doesn't sound to me like anything in the [[Book of Daniel]], which is the obvious place to look for it. Indeed, I don't believe Daniel is recorded anywhere as speaking with God: that is one of the reasons why the Jewish religion disputes whether he is one of the prophets or not. [[User:Strawless|Strawless]] ([[User talk:Strawless|talk]]) 23:24, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
::A google search for that quote yields zero hits, and I also don't think it sounds like the Bible; I've read it several times, but this has a distinctly modern-ish feel to my ear. Where did you get it? -[[User:FisherQueen|FisherQueen]]<span style="font-size: smaller;"> ([[User talk:FisherQueen|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/FisherQueen|contribs]])</span> 23:26, 2 October 2008 (UTC)


== External links ==
:::That is not in the Bible as used in mainstream Christianity. It may be in a Bible customized for an offshoot of Christianity or a Bible for another religion all together. -- [[User:Kainaw|<font color='#ff0000'>k</font><font color='#cc0033'>a</font><font color='#990066'>i</font><font color='#660099'>n</font><font color='#3300cc'>a</font><font color='#0000ff'>w</font>]][[User talk:Kainaw|&trade;]] 01:55, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
* [http://www.thinkgos.com/ gOS home page]
* [http://gosforums.org/ gOS forums]
* [http://gosuniverse.ning.com/ gOS Universe - Community Dv and Help]
* [http://www.fsckin.com/2007/11/03/interview-with-gos-founder-linux-for-human-beings-who-shop-at-walmart/ Interview with David Liu, founder of Good OS LLC.]
* [http://groups.google.com/group/goslinux Official gOS Community Support Group and Help Forums]
* [http://www.tuxsoftware.com/home/ Linux Software Search - Online gOS Software Installations]


{{Linux-distro}}
:::: I like that word ''customized''. Can I get one with Wifi and a roof-rack? —[[User:Tamfang|Tamfang]] ([[User talk:Tamfang|talk]]) 09:16, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
{{Cloud computing}}


[[Category:Linux distributions|*]]
:::::Well, there's the [[Aquarian Gospel]] to start with... [[User:AnonMoos|AnonMoos]] ([[User talk:AnonMoos|talk]]) 16:16, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
[[Category:Ubuntu (operating system) derivatives]]
[[Category:Linux distributions used in appliances]]
[[Category:Cloud software]]


[[ar:جي أو إس]]
= October 3 =
[[ca:GOS (sistema operatiu)]]

[[de:GOS (Betriebssystem)]]
== uncommitted ohio voters ==
[[es:GOS]]
I'm watching vice presidential debate on CNN, there is an uncommitted ohio voters graph, how does this work? --[[Special:Contributions/92.227.176.143|92.227.176.143]] ([[User talk:92.227.176.143|talk]]) 02:10, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
[[fr:GOS]]
:CNN compiled a group of uncommintted Ohio voters at Ohio State University to watch the debate. As they listen, they have a device that they can move up and down according to their approval or disapproval of that the candidates are saying. '''[[User:Grsz11|<font color="black">Grsz</font>]][[User talk:Grsz11|<b><font color="red"><sup>X</sup></font></b>]]''' 02:15, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
[[it:GOS (distribuzione Linux)]]

[[lt:GOS (operacinė sistema)]]
:Personally I wish they had given some of those devices to a bunch of chimpanzees—would probably have been more informative, and more entertaining! --[[Special:Contributions/98.217.8.46|98.217.8.46]] ([[User talk:98.217.8.46|talk]]) <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|undated]] comment was added at 03:20, 3 October 2008 (UTC).</span><!--Template:Undated--> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
[[nl:GOS (Linuxdistributie)]]
::Instead of "approve/disapprove" it could be "eat poo/fling poo"... --[[User:Jayron32|Jayron32]].[[User talk:Jayron32|<small>talk</small>]].[[Special:Contributions/Jayron32|<small>contribs</small>]] 03:56, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
[[ja:GOS]]
:::Nothing to do with Ohio, but global health guru Hans Rosling has a stunning [http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/hans_rosling_shows_the_best_stats_you_ve_ever_seen.html presentation] in which he says, around the 2-minute mark, "I have shown that Swedish top students know statistically significantly less about the world than the chimpanzees." --- [[User:OtherDave|OtherDave]] ([[User talk:OtherDave|talk]]) 16:15, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
[[ro:GOS Rocket]]

[[ru:GOS]]
== Hawaii Prepaid Healthcare Act ==
[[sv:GOS]]

[[tr:Gos]]
Out of curiosity, what can people here at the reference desk tell me about the Hawaii Prepaid Healthcare Act? I believe it regulates healthcare insurance in a way not found in anywhere else in the country, and was the basis of a plan to provide universal healthcare under the Clinton Administration. A quick Google search doesn't tell me much, and there's no article about it here on Wikipedia (although I added a mention in the [[ERISA]] article ages ago.) I'm asking because I'm thinking about authoring an article for it sometime in the foreseeable future. [[User:Musashi1600|Musashi1600]] ([[User talk:Musashi1600|talk]]) 09:28, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
[[zh:GOS]]
:The [http://hawaii.gov/labor/dcd/aboutphc.shtml first Google hit] seems informative. --[[User:TotoBaggins|Sean]] 14:01, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

== [[Treasury_security#TIPS]] ==

I am searching for foreign currency TIPS, specially in pound and euro. Are foreign governments also issuing securities like these? [[User:Mr.K.|Mr.K.]] [[User_talk:Mr.K.|(talk)]] 09:42, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

:Already found: [[Inflation-indexed_bond]]. <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Mr.K.|Mr.K.]] ([[User talk:Mr.K.|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Mr.K.|contribs]]) 10:03, 3 October 2008 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Titanic (1997 film) ==

After the part of the film where the dome collapses and destroys the Grand Staircase, the camera rolls down a first class corridor which is flooding and having its doors torn off. I was wondering what's causing these doors to collapse, have the staterooms on either side of the corridor flooded and the pressure is destroying them. Because as far as I can see, the corridor is only just beginning to flood. Thanks --Thanks, [[User:Hadseys|Hadseys]] 12:39, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

:Could it be [[artistic license]] to make a more exciting scene? Without watching that exact part of the film it's hard to speculate for sure but...water is an incredibly powerful source, with the force of water rushing against a door that has already had unexpected pressure on it, perhaps that would be enough. I suspect it is artistic license though, not a whole lot of hollywood is grounded in reality, and less so is scientifically sound. [[Special:Contributions/194.221.133.226|194.221.133.226]] ([[User talk:194.221.133.226|talk]]) 13:26, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
::Having watched [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwA5vvrreyQ the scene in question], I'd say you're right, it looks kind of flaky but that's just what film-makers do. --[[User:Richardrj|Richardrj]] [[User talk:Richardrj|<sup>talk </sup>]][[Special:Emailuser/Richardrj|<sup>email</sup>]] 13:36, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
*So am I right in thinking that the staterooms on the right hand side of the corridor have already flooded and the corridor is now buckling under the oncoming water and from the pressurised water in the staterooms? --Thanks, [[User:Hadseys|Hadseys]] 13:46, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
:No there is no reason for the doors to collapse, they should not collapse at all. The authors of the film only wanted to make the film look impressive. I have no idea what would be their explanation of the phenomemon, but it certainly wouldn't make much scientific sense. --[[User:Lgriot|Lgriot]] ([[User talk:Lgriot|talk]]) 14:50, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
:: I looks to me like the staterooms were supposed to have been suddenly flooded, breaking down the flimsy doors. Nice of them to wait until the camera rolled by. [[User:APL|APL]] ([[User talk:APL|talk]]) 04:07, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
So much was wrong with that film .Please do not take any of it as accurate.[[User:Hotclaws**==|hotclaws]] 23:45, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

== Indigenous patterns throughout Central America ==

Further to the question about blacks in various countries in South America, it occured to me to ask why the gradation of population in [[Central America]] is the way it is. [[Mexico]], while not free of racism, has fused its history into a new race (or people, or ethnic group), the [[mestiso]]. Its immediate neighbo(u)r to the south, [[Guatemala]], has a high proportion of indigenous people, and, roughly speaking, as one meanders down the peninsula, it becomes progressively "whiter" (more European or North American), culminating in [[Costa Rica]], the least indigenous country of the region. Why is this? [[User:BrainyBabe|BrainyBabe]] ([[User talk:BrainyBabe|talk]]) 14:07, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
:The situation is not so clear cut in Mexico where gradations of race and racism exist across the country. This is one of the issues of the [[Zapatista Army of National Liberation]]. [[User:Rmhermen|Rmhermen]] ([[User talk:Rmhermen|talk]]) 14:55, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
::Indeed, most of the power structure in Mexico is decidedly European. The idea that Mexicans are a uniform race of 50% Europeans and 50% indiginous is a bit of a whitewash (pardon the pun). Especially in the south, such as the Yucatan and Oaxaca areas, there a lots of fully indiginous peoples which have not assimilated well into Mexican society. --[[User:Jayron32|Jayron32]].[[User talk:Jayron32|<small>talk</small>]].[[Special:Contributions/Jayron32|<small>contribs</small>]] 15:54, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

== Chinese in Africa ==

Again following on from a question about Africans in China, how many [[Chinese people]] are there in [[Africa]]? Our article on [[Chinese South Africans]] suggests 100 000 - 300 000 in that country alone, most of them recent immigrants, as opposed to the [[Chinese diaspora|descendants of previous waves]]. This 2007 ''[[International Herald Tribune]]'' article says the "[[Xinhua]] press agency recently estimated there were at least 750,000 Chinese working or living for extended periods on the continent" [http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/08/17/africa/malawi.php]. I am not sure to what extent that is an unbiased source. Does any other national or international body attempt to keep accurate statistics -- ie how reliable is whatever data there is? How quickly is the situation changing -- my impression is, very rapidly, but I might be wrong. What countries have the most Chinese immigrants or long-term workers? Aside from the usual entrepreneurs, managers, engineers, technicians, and shopkeepers, what sort of occupation or function do the immigrants fulfil? [[User:BrainyBabe|BrainyBabe]] ([[User talk:BrainyBabe|talk]]) 14:25, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

:I am a Chinese-born American who has recently backpacked from Cairo to Cape. Here are my impressions of the extent of Chinese immigration:

:Egypt: low Ethiopia: extraordinarily high (thousands of entrepreneurs but also thousands of common laborers who are in construction) Somaliland: low+ I met a Chinese telecom engineer and the locals told me the Chinese government had installed water purification in [[Hargeisa]] Kenya: low presence in raw numbers but a Kenyan diplomat said they were a noticeable presence at the trade table Tanzania: High in Dar es Salaam Malawi: Recently Malawi broke it's long standing relationship w/ Taiwan, immigrant numbers look low Mozambique: High in Maputo and other regional centers South Africa: It's a big country so I can't confirm what end of that estimate is more accurate. But it seems minor in terms of influence. Verdict: 750k seems high [[User:Lotsofissues|Lotsofissues]] ([[User talk:Lotsofissues|talk]]) 00:32, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

::Interresting impressions. I am intrigued that the Chinese are bringing in their own labourers. This seems historically anomalous. One thing that Africa has in large measure is raw human power. (oh yeah, and raw materials too.) [[User:BrainyBabe|BrainyBabe]] ([[User talk:BrainyBabe|talk]]) 06:04, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

== Pyramid ==

There are pyramids in Egypt and also in various south american countries, 1, are there any in any other places on earth, and 2, why have these two seperate places build similar structures, is there a connection? <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/193.115.175.247|193.115.175.247]] ([[User talk:193.115.175.247|talk]]) 15:17, 3 October 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

1. Yes, all around the world. see the article [[pyramid]] for checking where.
2. Because it is pretty stable, despite being a high structure.
[[User:Mr.K.|Mr.K.]] [[User_talk:Mr.K.|(talk)]] 15:27, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

:No historian thinks that all these forms are culturally connected by historic contact among peoples or through extra-terrestrial interference. There is an authentic cultural connection between the Egyptian pyramids and the pyramids at [[Axum]], in northern [[Ethiopia]], south of Egypt, however. [[Thor Heyerdahl]] built the [[Ra II]] to sail it across the Atlantic in an attempt to prove that Egyptians could have sailed to Central America. Such connections form a major part of [[Mormon]] mythology.--[[User:Wetman|Wetman]] ([[User talk:Wetman|talk]]) 15:30, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
::Well, I wouldn't say NO historian. No '''credible''' historian does, but for an entertaining read, check out [[Graham Hancock]]'s book ''Fingerprints of the Gods'', where he makes an arguement for it. He does lay out a very interesting case, and its a good read. I won't spoil the ending for you, but, while it doesn't have anything to do with [[2001: A Space Odyssey (film)|psychopathic retangular monoliths that play Richard Strauss music to monkeys]], its pretty close. Understand going in that its '''total bullshit''', but its still an interesting case. --[[User:Jayron32|Jayron32]].[[User talk:Jayron32|<small>talk</small>]].[[Special:Contributions/Jayron32|<small>contribs</small>]] 15:51, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
:::Without wanting to side with Hancock or his ilk, I would say that "I do not see any merit in his argument" does not necessarily mean "His argument is total bullshit". -- [[User:JackofOz|JackofOz]] ([[User talk:JackofOz|talk]]) 22:09, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
: Some of those who subscribe to [[Pyramidology]] believe in such connections, and also connections to vaguely similar structures in Southeast Asia. I once read an hysterical book (which was also concerned with UFOs and anti-gravity and stuff) which claimed there was a harmonic relationship between the positions of these supposedly-related vaguely pyramidal structures, and thus claimed some [[pyramid power]] travel/communications network existed between these. Gosh, I wish I could remember that book's name. -- [[User:Finlay McWalter|Finlay McWalter]] | [[User talk:Finlay McWalter|Talk]] 15:47, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
::That was someone other than Hancock... His book is a little more grounded in reality, though not much... --[[User:Jayron32|Jayron32]].[[User talk:Jayron32|<small>talk</small>]].[[Special:Contributions/Jayron32|<small>contribs</small>]] 15:51, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
:::I heard someone on the Art Bell show say that the Giza pyramids were a hyperdimensional weapon used to defeat space aliens, or something. (And also to destroy the planet from which the asteroid belt was formed.) [[User:Adam Bishop|Adam Bishop]] ([[User talk:Adam Bishop|talk]]) 21:19, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
:There's a name used in archeology/anthropology for when the same things (pottery, for eg) develop entirely independently in different cultures around the world (generally because the inventions are the most obvious, simple solutions to particular problems facing these cultures) -- but I can't for the life of remember what the term is. But it is a genuine phenomenom. Nothing to do with little green men.[[Special:Contributions/86.147.162.163|86.147.162.163]] ([[User talk:86.147.162.163|talk]]) 15:59, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
:In evolutionary biology, the term is called [[convergent evolution]], where unrelated organisms devlop similar characteristics to fill similar niche's in their environs. (like Dolphins and fish both having fins). According to our article on [[convergent evolution]], and I quote "In cultural evolution, convergent evolution is the development of similar cultural adaptations to similar environmental conditions by different peoples with different ancestral cultures." So perhaps the term convergent evolution is appropriate here too... --[[User:Jayron32|Jayron32]].[[User talk:Jayron32|<small>talk</small>]].[[Special:Contributions/Jayron32|<small>contribs</small>]] 16:29, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

----
Think about it, what's the safest way of building a very stable (yet impressive-looking) structure which rises to a reasonable height, when you don't have concrete or steel, or even any strong mortar? By having the cross-section of each level be smaller than the cross-section of the levels below it. I don't see much of a coincidence or spookily-mysterious resemblance here. And aside from such basic structurally-constrained factors, there really isn't too much specific resemblance in detail between meso-American and Egyptian pyramids -- Meso-American pyramids had steps running up the sides, and religious rituals were conducted at the top, while none of that was true for Egyptian pyramids... [[User:AnonMoos|AnonMoos]] ([[User talk:AnonMoos|talk]]) 22:07, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

:It would also have been a straight development of the prehistoric earthen mounds, found im many of the ancient cultures ([[Hill of Tara]], [[kofun]], [[Poverty Point]]). --[[User:Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM|Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM]] ([[User talk:Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM|talk]]) 21:30, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

== Islam fasting and activities ==

Besides Ramadan, which others months of the Hijri calender do Muslims fast because their Prophet Muhammad (P.B.U.H) used do? During those months such as Rajab and Muharram, what are the prayers and activities do Muslims do? <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/142.204.74.52|142.204.74.52]] ([[User talk:142.204.74.52|talk]]) 15:36, 3 October 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:You know, we have an article on [[Islam]]. Also, you may want to read the chapter in your World Religions textbook that came immediately before that homework assignment. I am certain the answer will be in there. Good luck on that homework, and please re-read that disclaimer at the top of the page. --[[User:Jayron32|Jayron32]].[[User talk:Jayron32|<small>talk</small>]].[[Special:Contributions/Jayron32|<small>contribs</small>]] 15:45, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

== What is this symbol? ==

hi, ok it looks like this:

a standard christian cross, with two extra horizontal lines each side of the horizontal line that are curved slightly away from the horizontal line. Anyone know what it is? thanks, --[[Special:Contributions/84.69.147.138|84.69.147.138]] ([[User talk:84.69.147.138|talk]]) 16:41, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

[[Image:OrthodoxCross.svg|thumb|right]] This? '''[[User:Grsz11|<font color="black">Grsz</font>]][[User talk:Grsz11|<b><font color="red"><sup>X</sup></font></b>]]''' 16:44, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

:its that but the bottom horizontal line is that same distance from the middle line as the top one, and the two 'non middle' lines are curved, like brackets '( )' on their sides, bending out from the middle line..... <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/84.69.147.138|84.69.147.138]] ([[User talk:84.69.147.138|talk]]) 16:51, 3 October 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

::Some context of where you saw it may help. '''[[User:Grsz11|<font color="black">Grsz</font>]][[User talk:Grsz11|<b><font color="red"><sup>X</sup></font></b>]]''' 16:57, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

:::There are several on the [[Cross]] page. Take a look there to see if you can see what you mean. '''[[User:Grsz11|<font color="black">Grsz</font>]][[User talk:Grsz11|<b><font color="red"><sup>X</sup></font></b>]]''' 16:59, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

::::It's the [[Eastern Orthodox Church]] cross, which includes the Russian OC but others as well. See [[Patriarchal cross#Other variations]]. It should be added to the Cross page. -- [[User:JackofOz|JackofOz]] ([[User talk:JackofOz|talk]]) 22:01, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

i have no idea where i saw it, and i cant find it on the internet either. It looks like this (i just did this quickly) <s>(you have to 'edit' to see it</s>:

<pre>--------------o--------------
-------------ooo-------------
-------------ooo-------------
-------------ooo-------------
-------------ooo-------------
---o---------ooo---------o---
----oo-------ooo-------oo----
----oooo-----ooo-----oooo----
------ooooooooooooooooo------
---------ooooooooooo---------
-------------ooo-------------
---ooooooooooooooooooooooo---
-ooooooooooooooooooooooooooo-
---ooooooooooooooooooooooo---
-------------ooo-------------
---------ooooooooooo---------
------ooooooooooooooooo------
----oooo-----ooo-----oooo----
----oo-------ooo-------oo----
---o---------ooo---------o---
-------------ooo-------------
-------------ooo-------------
-------------ooo-------------
-------------ooo-------------
-------------ooo-------------
-------------ooo-------------
-------------ooo-------------
-------------ooo-------------
--------------o--------------</pre><span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/84.69.147.138|84.69.147.138]] ([[User talk:84.69.147.138|talk]]) 17:00, 3 October 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:There's a [[:Commons:Category:Discordianism|Discordian symbol]] kind of like that, but no Christian symbol (as far as I'm aware). [[User:AnonMoos|AnonMoos]] ([[User talk:AnonMoos|talk]]) 18:03, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

:Did you bother checking the description for the image? It says it's the "The three-barred cross" of the [[Russian Orthodox Church]]. The Church's article says practitioners crossed themselves with three fingers, hence the three-barred cross. Here is [[:Image:Slavcross.png|anoth example]]. Here is the [[:Image:PatriarchsCross.svg|Patriarchal cross]], which only has two cross bars instead of three. --[[User:Ghostexorcist|Ghostexorcist]] ([[User talk:Ghostexorcist|talk]]) 18:00, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

::There's no need to be rude. The cross in question isn't the Russian Orthodox cross anyway, it's the one the orignal posters has created for us in text, thus there is no "description for the image" to be checked. --[[User:LarryMac|<font color="#3EA99F">LarryMac</font>]][[User talk:LarryMac|<font color="#3EA99F"><small> | Talk</small></font>]] 18:18, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

:It's also mildly similar to [[:Image:Triple-Goddess-Waxing-Full-Waning-Symbol.png]] [[User:Nil Einne|Nil Einne]] ([[User talk:Nil Einne|talk]]) 22:05, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
::As the image author, I don't really see too much resemblance... Possibly the original poster might mean some form of the [[Scientology cross]], but that has little spikes, not curving lines [[User:AnonMoos|AnonMoos]] ([[User talk:AnonMoos|talk]]) 22:10, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
:::Really? The only difference I see is that one has a round moon the other one highly epitical. The crescents are more or less exactly the same [[User:Nil Einne|Nil Einne]] ([[User talk:Nil Einne|talk]]) 07:52, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
::::The Triple goddess waxing-crescent/full-moon/waning-crescent symbol has a central circle, but no central lines, while the symbol crudely depicted in ASCII above has two central lines at perpendicular angles, but no central circle. (What you call an "elongated ellipse" is pretty much exactly the same as the depiction of a straight line with rounded ends in the perpendicular direction...). [[User:AnonMoos|AnonMoos]] ([[User talk:AnonMoos|talk]]) 16:09, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
[[Image:Mystsymb.png|58px|right]]
::::P.S. Converted the ASCII text to a graphic using [[netpbm]] (which is useful for things like that), so that it can be seen roughly what it looks like using square pixels... [[User:AnonMoos|AnonMoos]] ([[User talk:AnonMoos|talk]]) 21:15, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Your drawing is similar to a "zhuk v muravejnike" ("beetle in an anthill" in Russian) symbol in Strugatsky brothers' eponymous novel. I have read Zhuk v Muravejnike about 20 years ago, but if I remember correctly the symbol was based on a [[kanji]], or at least that's how I understood it back then. Anyway, you may want to look or ask on sites devoted to Strugatskie brothers' works. And you may want to read the novel, too. It's really good.--[[User:Dr Dima|Dr Dima]] ([[User talk:Dr Dima|talk]]) 01:55, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

: Turns out we have an English-language page for the novel, [[Beetle in the Anthill]]. Wiki has articles for EVERYTHING :) --[[User:Dr Dima|Dr Dima]] ([[User talk:Dr Dima|talk]]) 02:00, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
[[Image:Flag of the Kabyle people.svg|thumb|Berber flag]]
*I would rather think that you are refering to the Berber flag : see [[:fr:Drapeau_berbère]]. [[User:Baronnet|Baronnet]] ([[User talk:Baronnet|talk]]) 14:18, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

::One website describes this to be the [[Tifinagh]] letter "Z", which is located in the middle stripe of the flag. Of course, there is no straight middle cross bar in this symbol. --[[User:Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM|Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM]] ([[User talk:Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM|talk]]) 21:07, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

== Back issues of ''Irano-Judaica''? ==

I am trying to find the following article:

*Daniel D. Leslie, "Persia or Yemen? The Origin of the Kaifeng Jews," in Shaul Shaked, ed., ''Irano-Judaica: Studies Relating to Jewish Contacts with Persian Culture Throughout the Ages'' (Jerusalem, 1982), pp. 101-111.

However, I can't seem to find any seller on-line that has back issues of ''Irano-Judaica'' for purchase. Does anyone know where I can find it? --[[User:Ghostexorcist|Ghostexorcist]] ([[User talk:Ghostexorcist|talk]]) 17:53, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
:Nevermind. I found a couple of places that are selling it on line, however, it ranges between $75 and $350! I just want a single article from it. --[[User:Ghostexorcist|Ghostexorcist]] ([[User talk:Ghostexorcist|talk]]) 18:59, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
::If you have a big university library nearby they might have it (Toronto has it but I'm not sure that helps). [[User:Adam Bishop|Adam Bishop]] ([[User talk:Adam Bishop|talk]]) 21:16, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

I don't know where the questioner lives. However,all the past copies of "Irano Judaica" can be found at the Jewish National and University Library at Givat Ram, Jerusalem. There are copies in the Judaica Reading Room and they can also be ordered from the stacks. None of them are for home loan. [[User:Simonschaim|Simonschaim]] ([[User talk:Simonschaim|talk]]) 10:32, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

I have just looked for further libraries at which "Irano Judaica" can be found. There is the Library of Congress in Washington D.C. and a number of libraries in Britain - for a list look under COPAC on the internet.[[User:Simonschaim|Simonschaim]] ([[User talk:Simonschaim|talk]]) 10:41, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

== If two gay consenting adults have sex in KSA, is it illegal? ==

Even if it's in privacy?

And another question, if two consenting adults ( a 20 year old heterosexual couple ) have sex there and they're NOT married, is it illegal? Thanks friends. --[[Special:Contributions/190.49.105.156|190.49.105.156]] ([[User talk:190.49.105.156|talk]]) 18:47, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

: [[LGBT rights in Saudi Arabia]] may answer your first question. -- [[User:Finlay McWalter|Finlay McWalter]] | [[User talk:Finlay McWalter|Talk]] 18:52, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

:I'm pretty sure the answer to both is it's illegal [[User:Nil Einne|Nil Einne]] ([[User talk:Nil Einne|talk]]) 21:54, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

::Of course, Saudi Arabia has religious courts (see [[Sharia]]) for all aspects of the law, and if these gay consenting adults are engaging in homosexual activity then it can be a capital offence, so in Saudi Arabia the ultimate sanction they face is the death penalty. If the two consenting ''heterosexual'' adults are not married to each other but are married to other people, then ''adultery'' is also potentially a capital offence. If they are not married to anyone, then I believe Islamic law is much more equivocal. I don't pretend to have the complete answer to the last case, but from what little I know of what goes on there it seems unlikely that they would be in the same trouble. [[User:Strawless|Strawless]] ([[User talk:Strawless|talk]]) 23:22, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
:::Afterthought - [[prostitution in Saudi Arabia]] is against the law, too. [[User:Strawless|Strawless]] ([[User talk:Strawless|talk]]) 23:34, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

::I was half-expecting that "LGBT rights in Saudi Arabia" would be a totally blank article! I wonder what the Wahhabi muftis there have to say about [[Mukhannathun]], who aren't necessarily homosexuals exactly, but are kind of inter-gender people who have some recognized status within some innterpretations of Islam... [[User:AnonMoos|AnonMoos]] ([[User talk:AnonMoos|talk]]) 00:22, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

:Given that the OP has chosen to post on the English-language Wikipedia, the situation of foreigners in Saudi may be of relevance. According to our article, there about 5.5 million resident foreigners, out of a total population of 27m; "around 100,000 [[Western world|Westerners]] in Saudi Arabia, most of whom live in [[Compound (enclosure)|compounds]] or [[Gated community|gated communities]]." To a certain extent, these are self-policing, e.g. alcohol has been known to occur, and sex too, sometimes in combination, without the police getting involved. [[User:BrainyBabe|BrainyBabe]] ([[User talk:BrainyBabe|talk]]) 07:11, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

==Baron George Wrangell==
How, if at all, was white-Russian aristo Baron [[George Wrangell]] related to the [[Wrangel family]]? George was the eyepatch-wearing alcoholic columnist model for [[C. F. Hathaway Company]]. <small>[http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,844888,00.html (obit)]
[http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=QlVB6ARdT7kC&pg=PA230&lpg=PA230&dq=%22george+wrangell%22&source=web&ots=5fR3GaaO6x&sig=OrBows0O_iC4PLtzGtPaujowAZI&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result#PPA233,M1 (''Mirror Makers'' mention)] </small> -- [[User:Finlay McWalter|Finlay McWalter]] | [[User talk:Finlay McWalter|Talk]] 21:07, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
:Regrettably, his NYT obituary of June 10, 1969 doesn't mention his father's name, but does state that he was "a nephew of a commander of the Russian White Army and the son of the former Imperial Russian Consul General in Rome". FWIW, he was born 1 Sept 1903 in Russia, came to the U.S. in 1930, was naturalized 20 Apr 1942 in the New York Southern District, and died 7 or 8 June 1969 in New York City's Doctors Hospital. His survivors were his widow, Katherine Bissell Wrangell, his mother Duchess Sasso Ruffo of Caracas, brothers Paul and Basil, both of Los Angeles, and a sister, Mrs. Elizabeth Wrangell Maulmeister of Paris. From this information, I would infer that his mother was Marussia Sasso Ruffo (30 Jul 1879-12 Dec 1971), who married Peter Freiherr von Wrangell (29 Jun 1874-Paris 1951) in St. Petersburg on 30 Oct 1902. - <span style="font-family: cursive">[[User:Nunh-huh|Nunh-huh]]</span> 22:38, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

:: Thanks. This leads me to think George is likely notable enough for a Wikipedia article (Baron, related to a bunch of other noted folks, super-famous model for 10 years, columnist), but there doesn't seem to be enough verifiable material to make it all stick. -- [[User:Finlay McWalter|Finlay McWalter]] | [[User talk:Finlay McWalter|Talk]] 21:23, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

::: I agree with you - I think probably his iconic Hathaway status would be enough. Most of the info above can be cited to various newspaper articles, but we would need some "reliable source" to expand the article. Plus we would probably never be able to get a photo that would pass "fair use" muster on Wikipedia. - <span style="font-family: cursive">[[User:Nunh-huh|Nunh-huh]]</span> 23:59, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

= October 4 =

== jocasta ==

what kind of person is jocasta <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/60.50.166.184|60.50.166.184]] ([[User talk:60.50.166.184|talk]]) 02:36, 4 October 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:We have an article on her at [[Jocasta]]. You could also read any number of classic Greek plays that feature her as a character, including [[Oedipus Rex]] and [[Phoenician Women]]. Good luck! --[[User:Jayron32|Jayron32]].[[User talk:Jayron32|<small>talk</small>]].[[Special:Contributions/Jayron32|<small>contribs</small>]] 03:28, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

== ''The Man Who Liked Dickens'' ==

Hi. The article on ''[[A Handful of Dust]]'' states that the novel was an extrapolation of the author's short story ''The Man Who Liked Dickens''. Does anyone know how I might be able to get hold of a copy of this short story, preferably online? Thanks! <font color="#FFA000">╟─[[User:TreasuryTag|Treasury]]§[[User talk:TreasuryTag|Tag]]►[[Special:Contributions/TreasuryTag|contribs]]─╢</font> 18:20, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
:The story has been anthologized frequently. In a hasty search, I'm not seeing it in any in-print anthologies, but copies of ''The Penguin Book of Horror Stories'' and ''[[The Book of Fantasy]]'' should be readily available in libraries and in the used-book market. ''The Complete Short Stories of Evelyn Waugh'' seems to be in print in both the United States and Britain. Since the story is still in copyright, I wouldn't expect to find it online. [[User:Deor|Deor]] ([[User talk:Deor|talk]]) 06:02, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
Thanks - think I might have tracked down a copy of ''Horror Stories'' in the library! <font color="#FFA000">╟─[[User:TreasuryTag|Treasury]]§[[User talk:TreasuryTag|Tag]]►[[Special:Contributions/TreasuryTag|contribs]]─╢</font> 07:13, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
:As I recall, Waugh made only a few trivial changes when he used the story as Chapter VI of the novel, so don't expect any startling revelations. [[User:Deor|Deor]] ([[User talk:Deor|talk]]) 15:44, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
::Is it anything like "The woman who enjoyed kipling?" [[User:Edison|Edison]] ([[User talk:Edison|talk]]) 18:34, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
:::Silly boy, I've never met a woman who'd ever admit to having kippled. [[User:Deor|Deor]] ([[User talk:Deor|talk]]) 20:42, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

== Affair of the Diamond Necklace question ==

What happened to the titular [[The Affair of the Necklace|diamond necklace]] that so ruined [[Marie Antoinette]]? I can't seem to find any answers or pictures, just a single drawing of it that appears undated. ([[:Image:Diamond Necklace Marie Antoinette.jpeg]]) Thanks! [[User:Zidel333|Zidel333]] ([[User talk:Zidel333|talk]]) 18:55, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
:It was taken apart and the constituent gems sold in London and Paris by the Count & Countess de La Motte. Probably some of these have been reused in other settings. - <span style="font-family: cursive">[[User:Nunh-huh|Nunh-huh]]</span> 19:19, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
:The London ''Times'', in January 1959, covering the "Ageless Diamond" exhibition at Christie's, stated that the Duchess of Sutherland's ''[[sautoir]]'' displayed there was "part of the famous, or rather, notorious necklace" that brought about Marie Antoinette's downfall. The necklace stolen by the La Mottes had 629 diamonds. Among the sales mentioned by La Motte in his deposition were 22 stones from the "scallops" sold by him to Gray's, a jewel store in Bond Street, London. It is thought that the stones that were used in the Duchess of Sutherland's ''sautoir'' came from among those 22 stones. (We don't seem to have an article on sautoirs: these are rope necklaces, longer than opera length, falling below the waist, and often having a tassel or pendant.) - <span style="font-family: cursive">[[User:Nunh-huh|Nunh-huh]]</span> 19:54, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

::Thanks! This definitely helps explain what happened. Seems a shame what happened to the necklace though, it would be a fabulous sight today. Any chance of pictures of some of the subsequent jewelry? [[User:Zidel333|Zidel333]] ([[User talk:Zidel333|talk]]) 21:50, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

== David Gisser ==

Can you please create a page on a man named David Gisser, he has engineering importance. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/64.183.98.14|64.183.98.14]] ([[User talk:64.183.98.14|talk]]) 22:24, 4 October 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:This is the reference desk. I believe you're looking for [[Wikipedia:Requested articles]]. [[Special:Contributions/Zain Ebrahim111|Zain Ebrahim]] ([[User talk:Zain Ebrahim111|talk]]) 22:28, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

== Sistine chapel ceiling - classification requested ==

I'm wondering if there is any internationally standardized system to define parts of the [[Ceiling of the Sistine Chapel]]? --[[User:Scriberius|Scriberius]] ([[User talk:Scriberius|talk]]) 22:34, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
:I'm not completely sure I understand the question, but the "religious and public buildings of papal Rome" are all on the Unesco list of [[World Heritage Site]]s [http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/91], using the following [http://whc.unesco.org/en/criteria/ criteria]:
:<small>"(1) to represent a masterpiece of human creative genius; (2) to exhibit an important interchange of human values, over a span of time or within a cultural area of the world, on developments in architecture or technology, monumental arts, town-planning or landscape design; (3) to bear a unique or at least exceptional testimony to a cultural tradition or to a civilization which is living or which has disappeared; (4) to be an outstanding example of a type of building, architectural or technological ensemble or landscape which illustrates (a) significant stage(s) in human history; and (6) to be directly or tangibly associated with events or living traditions, with ideas, or with beliefs, with artistic and literary works of outstanding universal significance. (The Committee considers that this criterion should preferably be used in conjunction with other criteria)"</small>.
:Some of these criteria apply specifically to the ceiling. [[User:David Šenek|D<small>AVID</small> Š<small>ENEK</small>]] 09:20, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

::Thanks, but I just need a classification system for locating parts the ceiling. --[[User:Scriberius|Scriberius]] ([[User talk:Scriberius|talk]]) 12:44, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

:::Why don't you just use the system used by the [http://mv.vatican.va/3_EN/pages/CSN/CSN_Volta.html Vatican Museum]? I doubt this is going to be standardized by [[ISO]]! [[User:Dmcq|Dmcq]] ([[User talk:Dmcq|talk]]) 14:02, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

== McCain as Maverick ==

When and by whom was the term "Maverick" first used to describe John McCain? [[Special:Contributions/76.103.138.164|76.103.138.164]] ([[User talk:76.103.138.164|talk]]) 22:42, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
: This [http://www.azcentral.com/news/election/mccain/articles/2007/03/01/20070301mccainbio-chapter9.html profile] mentions a 1993 ''[[Washington Post]]'' article that described McCain as "a conservative with maverick instincts." Not sure that was the first, though, it was soon afterwards that he got that reputation due to his efforts to towards [[campaign finance reform]]. [[User:Rockpocket|<font color="green">Rockpock</font>]]<font color="black">e</font>[[User_talk:Rockpocket|<font color="green">t</font>]] 01:19, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
:: It was his gunner, "Goose", who first called him that. But then Goose died when he ejected into the canopy. And Meg Ryan cried a lot. But its OK, cuz Kelly McGillis was WAY hotter. --[[User:Jayron32|Jayron32]].[[User talk:Jayron32|<small>talk</small>]].[[Special:Contributions/Jayron32|<small>contribs</small>]] 04:58, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
:::[[James Garner]] was well known as a [[Maverick (TV series)|maverick]] way back in 1957, long before McCain. Perhaps he should run for president. [[User:Edison|Edison]] ([[User talk:Edison|talk]]) 05:29, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
::::[[My Fellow Americans|He did]] and with [[Jack Lemmon]] no less! --[[User:Jayron32|Jayron32]].[[User talk:Jayron32|<small>talk</small>]].[[Special:Contributions/Jayron32|<small>contribs</small>]] 05:46, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

:::::As an aside...[[Mel Gibson]], another [[Maverick (film)|maverick]], despite most people thinking of him as [[Australia]]n, is eligible to be President himself, being born in the U.S. --[[User:Jayron32|Jayron32]].[[User talk:Jayron32|<small>talk</small>]].[[Special:Contributions/Jayron32|<small>contribs</small>]] 05:46, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

::::::I think his drunken anti-Semitic comments probably tanked any actual eligibility. --[[Special:Contributions/140.247.11.44|140.247.11.44]] ([[User talk:140.247.11.44|talk]]) 15:25, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
::::::: Didn't do [http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Book_Bush_told_reporter_Jews_are_0902.html this guy] too much harm. [[User:Rockpocket|<font color="green">Rockpock</font>]]<font color="black">e</font>[[User_talk:Rockpocket|<font color="green">t</font>]] 18:31, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

::::::::Gibson is an Australian by association, if not by citizenship. He was certainly claimed as one of us when he made Mad Max etc, but when he makes drunken anti-semitic comments he morphs into "the American actor Mel Gibson". He was named an [[Order of Australia#Honorary Awards|honorary Officer]] of the [[Order of Australia]] back in 1997 for his services to Australian cinema. As well as being a U.S. citizen, he's also an Irish citizen, so I guess he could stand for President of Ireland some day. -- [[User:JackofOz|JackofOz]] ([[User talk:JackofOz|talk]]) 20:16, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::What about [[Nick Cave]], Jack? I'm interested to know whether he gets claimed as one of your own. He was born in Australia but hardly seems to live there much these days. --[[User:Richardrj|Richardrj]] [[User talk:Richardrj|<sup>talk </sup>]][[Special:Emailuser/Richardrj|<sup>email</sup>]] 07:48, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

= October 5 =

== Today's bailout verses the 1929 depression ==

What are the differences between the great depression of 1929 compared to today's economic bailout <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/72.188.34.226|72.188.34.226]] ([[User talk:72.188.34.226|talk]]) 14:16, 5 October 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:For starters, the great depression was a [[recession]] and today's bailout is a [[bailout]]. To answer your question, [http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/business/20081005-9999-lz1n5dean.html this] mentions a few differences and similarities. [[Special:Contributions/Zain Ebrahim111|Zain Ebrahim]] ([[User talk:Zain Ebrahim111|talk]]) 15:01, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

:For starters, the Great Depression '''was no recession'''. The term wasn't popularly used to describe a brief economic contraction until the 1950s (although, many have redefined past depressions as recessions since then). As for the original question, the Great Depression was a stock market crash followed by a series of bad policy choices that coincided with poor weather (agriculture). From 1929 to 1933, the nominal size of the US economy declined from $103.6 billion to $56.4 billion, a drop of 45.6%. Consumer prices fell by 27.2%. In real terms, the economy dropped nearly 7.5% a year for four straight years. [[User:DOR (HK)|DOR (HK)]] ([[User talk:DOR (HK)|talk]]) 03:55, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
::A [[Depression (economics)|severe recession]] is still a recession. I haven't come across a definition of ''recession'' which exclusively limited it to "brief contractions". [[Special:Contributions/Zain Ebrahim111|Zain Ebrahim]] ([[User talk:Zain Ebrahim111|talk]]) 12:40, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

== English Consumer Law ==

If an item has been purchased from a high street shop and it is faulty, is the consumer legally entitled to a refund? I have been reading many different pages on this and some say you are and others say they are only obliged to fix / replace. If the law states that a refund is obliged, can someone point me to the legislation that specifies this.
Thanks Kirk UK <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/87.82.79.175|87.82.79.175]] ([[User talk:87.82.79.175|talk]]) 14:35, 5 October 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:This is dealt with in our [[Sale of Goods Act 1979]] article. "Within six months, beginning at the time at which the goods were delivered, the buyer can require the seller to repair the goods, reduce the price, or rescind (revesting property and requiring the return of any payment) the contract where the buyer successfully claims that the goods were not in accordance with the contract at the time of delivery." In other words, the consumer can make the choice. The supplier has to comply or counterclaim that there is no problem with the goods. --[[User:Tagishsimon|Tagishsimon]] [[User_talk:Tagishsimon|(talk)]] 15:33, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

::And the specific legislation was amendments made to the Sale of Goods Act 1979 in the [http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/content.aspx?LegType=All+Legislation&title=Sale+and+Supply+of+Goods+to+Consumers+Regulations+2002.&searchEnacted=0&extentMatchOnly=0&confersPower=0&blanketAmendment=0&sortAlpha=0&TYPE=QS&PageNumber=1&NavFrom=0&parentActiveTextDocId=36399&ActiveTextDocId=36408&filesize=24232 The Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002]. --[[User:Tagishsimon|Tagishsimon]] [[User_talk:Tagishsimon|(talk)]] 15:43, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

'.....the goods were not in accordance with the contract at the time of delivery.' does this mean that if the goods worked on the day of delivery but then 'died' after two days (it was a hard drive) is it arguable that they were not faulty at the time of delivery? I've been going through the articles mentioned above, I'm no lawyer and getting more confused. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/87.82.79.175|87.82.79.175]] ([[User talk:87.82.79.175|talk]]) 17:41, 5 October 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

: The full term is six years (six months is just a change in the balance of evidence). BERR has a handy page on this regard [http://www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/consumers/fact-sheets/page38311.html here], which says ''Wherever goods are bought they must "conform to contract". This means they must be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality (i.e. not inherently faulty at the time of sale).'' and later ''the onus is on all purchasers to prove the goods did not conform to contract''. For a transaction involving a business, the act notes that "durability" is one of the implied qualities (14(2b)e). Whether 2 days is an acceptable time for a "durable" hard drive to work, and the extent to which that failure indicates the product was "inherently faulty at time of sale" is a specific matter that we can't give you advice about. -- [[User:Finlay McWalter|Finlay McWalter]] | [[User talk:Finlay McWalter|Talk]] 17:55, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

== London railway station logos ==

[[Image:London King's Cross sign.jpg|thumb|left|120px]] A lot of London railway stations now have circular stylised logos, in various colours, like the '''X''' one shown in the image. Does anyone know where I can find a list of these logos, perhaps download them, or find out about their design? Thanks. <font color="#FFA000">╟─[[User:TreasuryTag|Treasury]]§[[User talk:TreasuryTag|Tag]]►[[Special:Contributions/TreasuryTag|contribs]]─╢</font> 18:22, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
:Each of the 18 stations run by [http://www.networkrail.co.uk/aspx/765.aspx Network Rail] has a logo like this. I would have expected Network Rail's website to have them, but I haven't been able to find any! -- [[User:Arwel Parry|Arwel Parry]] <sub>[[User_talk:Arwel Parry|(talk)]]</sub> 22:11, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

== is there any user with astrology and magick knowledge? ==

hi guys, is there anyone who knows about astrology, astral charts, the karma that you need to acomplish in life acording to your chart, ..crowley magick...and all that stuff? but probably a modern aproach?
basically i'd like to discuss and find out what i need to acomplish and ger over in this life to be at peace with myself and others.

if you are versed in the subject and u think you can help me and you'd like to share views on the subject, i'll talk to you in your user page and we can exchange emails and stuff. :) <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/24.91.11.185|24.91.11.185]] ([[User talk:24.91.11.185|talk]]) 19:44, 5 October 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:[[WP:NOTMYSPACE|Wikipedia is not a social networking site]], and [[WP:UP#NOT|User talk pages should not contain extensive personal opinions on matters unrelated to Wikipedia]]. Moreover, the reference desk is not a place for people to express opinions about your personal life and beliefs. You will probably find what you are looking for in a "magick" forum. In the meantime, have a look at [[magick]] and [[astrology]], which might provide some of the information you seek. [[User:Gwinva|Gwinva]] ([[User talk:Gwinva|talk]]) 20:22, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

::Try also [[karma]], [[Aleister Crowley]], [[Jyoti%E1%B9%A3a|Jyotiṣa]], [[divination]], [[horoscope]], [[astrological aspect]], [[horoscopic astrology]], & [[natal astrology]]. [[User:Strawless|Strawless]] ([[User talk:Strawless|talk]]) 15:42, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

== Why isn't this little girl.... ==

wearing [[Hijab]]?. And why is she with other men (boys) if they're not related to her?. It's in Iraq and Muslims laws forbids women to be with other men if they are not realated to her.[http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Children_living_next_to_Daurra_Oil_Refinery_in_Iraq.jpg Here], it's on Commons. Thanks all. --[[User:Maru-Spanish|Maru-Spanish]] ([[User talk:Maru-Spanish|talk]]) 19:59, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
:Iraq is a secular society. <font family="Arial">[[User:NurseryRhyme|<span style="color:dark blue">Little Red Riding Hood</span>]]''[[User talk:NurseryRhyme|<span style="color:dark blue">talk</span>]]''</font> 20:27, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
::Moreover, not all [[Iraq#Demographics|people in Iraq]] are Muslims, and not all Muslims in Iraq are orthodox. [[User:Gwinva|Gwinva]] ([[User talk:Gwinva|talk]]) 20:35, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
:::Did I read somewhere that girls aren't always expected to wear hijab until 'round about puberty? From their body language, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that this is a little sister to at least some of those boys... -[[User:FisherQueen|FisherQueen]]<span style="font-size: smaller;"> ([[User talk:FisherQueen|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/FisherQueen|contribs]])</span> 20:36, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
::::Hijab is not compulsory until the age of puberty, which is 9 for girls. And then, it depends much on how tough and strict their parents and their community are. --[[User:Omidinist|Omidinist]] ([[User talk:Omidinist|talk]]) 05:15, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

:And how could you know that they are not related?[[User:Mr.K.|Mr.K.]] [[User_talk:Mr.K.|(talk)]] 11:20, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

:You might enjoy watching [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAkPFZQA6EM this excerpt] of a wonderful segment from the [[Wholphin (DVD)]] series about a 13 year-old [[Yemen]]i girl who refuses to wear [[hijab]]. --[[User:TotoBaggins|Sean]] 14:55, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

== Election of 1824 electoral college ==

What were some future political problems indicated by the Electoral College voting patterns in the [[United States presidential election, 1824]]? Thanks! <font color="#1EC112" size="3px">[[User:Reywas92|Reywas92]]</font><sup><font color="#45E03A">[[User talk:Reywas92|'''Talk''']]</font></sup> 20:02, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
:As the first paragraph of the article you linked to says, the Democratic-Republican Party split into several different parties. <font family="Arial">[[User:NurseryRhyme|<span style="color:dark blue">Little Red Riding Hood</span>]]''[[User talk:NurseryRhyme|<span style="color:dark blue">talk</span>]]''</font> 20:29, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

::Sounds a bit like homework, so I'm giving you a few leads and hoping you research yourself - not eI was tempted to give several misleading answers but chose not to.
::[[Andrew Jackson]] later said his only regrets were that he hadn't shot Clay or hung Calhoun. You might look into what [[Henry Clay]] did and the reaction.
::Crawford suffered a stroke before the votes were counted. Look at elections and amendments after this. (Yes, he was only 4th here so it didn't matter, but one elction did have the candidate for a major party die before the electors voted.)
::The Vice President was chosen so quickly - he had the majority of electors - while the Presidential one wasn't. think about how that wcould influence things.[[User:DTF955|Somebody or his brother]] ([[User talk:DTF955|talk]]) 00:11, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

== book a rabbi carries ==

what book does a rabbi always carry? <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/71.199.70.242|71.199.70.242]] ([[User talk:71.199.70.242|talk]]) 23:55, 5 October 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
: The [[Tanakh]]? [[User:Rockpocket|<font color="green">Rockpock</font>]]<font color="black">e</font>[[User_talk:Rockpocket|<font color="green">t</font>]] 02:15, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

I would think that the most likely book that a Rabbi would carry would not be a Tanakh but a thin book containing the afternoon (Minchah) and evening (Arvit) prayers. [[User:Simonschaim|Simonschaim]] ([[User talk:Simonschaim|talk]]) 04:58, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

= October 6 =

== New Photographic Genre (style), undeclared, as such, anywhere... ==

...according to three days of extensive research, truly searching all available internet means to find such.

The term and the supporting examples of that term are not to be found anywhere on the internet.

OK, granted, I am a newby here at WIKIPEDIA, however, I have also read all of the information regarding submissions, and am still unsure that I may not be submitting an article that may be considered "self-promotional".

It is NOT my intention to be such, nevertheless, the term for the style of imagery that I have developed and practiced is, in my opinion legitimate and unique and deserves to be brought forward to be added to and further explained, as I believe that there are a good number of photographers practicing this artistic style, though, not heretofore spoken of as such, and to date not named.

What I would like to find out is how I may go about submitting such an article and claim the declaration of the naming of the style, absent the risk of pissing anybody off in doing so.

[[User:Jaybiss|Jaybiss]] ([[User talk:Jaybiss|talk]]) 04:09, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

:Your enthusiasm is appreciated. Wikipedia carries articles on what can be verified by (generally) reliable, third-party sources. See [[WP:RS]] and [[WP:V]]. You would need to wait until your style and terminology were generally in use before they would be appropriate for inclusion in the encyclopedia. Wikipedia also (generally) tries to dissuade people from writing about themselves, their relatives, their business, inventions. It is difficult to find and keep the right neutral point of view if you are writing about something close to you. It is not so much that you might piss someone off (and, even if you did, we should be kind enough not to show such feelings to a newcomer) as that you would likely find your article up for a "speedy delete" either on the basis of not being verifiable or on the basis of a [[WP:COI|conflict of interest]]. If you would like more information, please add a note to my talk page and I will try to help you myself or to direct you to someone who can. [[User:Bielle|៛ Bielle]] ([[User talk:Bielle|talk]]) 04:32, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

== Short story called "The Mnemone" ==

I am looking for a science-fiction short story by [[Robert Sheckley]]. A friend of mine read it in a collection but has since lost the book, and now we are both in search of this story. I know little of the plot, except that it concerns a future in which there are only a few people who have memories, and they are called "mnemones" (a word coined by Sheckley). I have tried to search the Internet, but I have gotten literally one relevant hit: a link to the German Wikipedia's article on Sheckley, but I don't know German. I would really appreciate it if anyone could find out the name of the collection in which this was published, or anything, really. Thank you so much for your time! Cheers, [[User:Alitheiapsis|Alitheiapsis]] ([[User talk:Alitheiapsis|talk]]) 04:56, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
:Here's its [http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?58568 Internet Speculative Fiction database entry]. Looks like it's been included in four collections. [[User:Clarityfiend|Clarityfiend]] ([[User talk:Clarityfiend|talk]]) 05:39, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

== Political careers ==

I've been thinking lately that there might be some more stability in the US, economically and such, if politicians in appointed positions stayed in office longer. So, I looked through the cabinet of GWB and could only find one person who had been in their position for more than 5 years. That seems awfully short to me. If one were to compare this with people, maybe more specifically company executives, who aren't in politics, would both groups fall into a similar pattern or is there a difference? <span style="font-family:monospace;">[[User:Dismas|Dismas]]</span>|[[User talk:Dismas|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 05:58, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

:Successful directors move roles/companies a lot too, there is a lot of head-hunting and shuffling for positions. This link (http://www.cio.com/article/153600/Average_CIO_Tenure_Slips_But_Still_More_Than_Four_Years) suggests an average of around about 5 years. The politician is not a specialist knowledge in the area they head-up, that isn't their role - behind the scenes and in the committee groups there will be knowledge specialists, advisers and people with vast amounts of specific experience. The same is true for company directors. [[Special:Contributions/194.221.133.226|194.221.133.226]] ([[User talk:194.221.133.226|talk]]) 08:30, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

:There are civil servants that hold their positions far longer. For example, "permanent secretaries" in the UK - the clue is in the name! --[[User:Tango|Tango]] ([[User talk:Tango|talk]]) 12:37, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

::Technically, the members of the president's cabinet are not politicians. Cabinet posts are not elected positions, and if a member of Congress (who ''is'' an elected official) is appointed to a cabinet post, he or she must resign the seat in Congress. Since the term of office for the president is set at four years, with a maximum of two terms, it's hard to see how someone could stay in a cabinet post.
::As Tango points out for the UK, in the U.S. there are many career civil service positions, even at the highest levels. As [http://www.america.gov/st/washfile-english/2005/February/20050204171424WWesoR0.2413141.html this article] notes, in 2004 there were just over 9,000 positions in the federal government into which a political appointee can go -- out of 2.7 million.
::In addition, most cabinet secretaries can and do earn far more money (usually with far less grief) outside of government. That said, I'm not sure Alberto "I Can't Recall" Gonzales, the previous attorney general, is raking in the big bucks. If he were, would he remember? --- [[User:OtherDave|OtherDave]] ([[User talk:OtherDave|talk]]) 19:04, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
:::There have been some U.S. Cabinet members who have served over multiple administrations, even for presidents of different parties. For example, [[Norman Mineta]] served as Commerce Sect'y under Clinton, and was retained by GWBush as Transportation Sect'y. --[[User:Jayron32|Jayron32]].[[User talk:Jayron32|<small>talk</small>]].[[Special:Contributions/Jayron32|<small>contribs</small>]] 19:59, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

:::The Australian Public Service was modelled in many ways on the UK Civil Service. The heads of our departments used to be called "Permanent Head"; they're called "Secretary" these days. Their jobs often come to an end when there's a change of government, if the new government thinks the individual is too closely aligned with the policies of the previous government. In some cases, it's very obvious why they would think that - the person had formerly been on the previous PM's personal staff, had strongly influenced that government's policies for a significant period, and had then been given a Secretary's job to ensure the policies they helped draft on the political side of the fence were being implemented on the apolitical side of the fence. So much for the promises not to politicise the apolitical Public Service, which serves the government of the day whatever it's political colour, withour fear or favour. In other cases, it's just a matter of their personal style, or having made public statements that were seen to be overly supportive of the previous government's philosophies. The new Howard (Liberal) government in 1996 sacked a whole swag of Labor-appointed Secretaries. The Rudd (Labor) government didn't immediately sack any Liberal-appointed Secs when it came to power in 2007, but I think there's been some reshuffling and departures since. Many of them are outside appointments these days, although public servants can still rise through the ranks and achieve a Secretary's job. But even back when there were "Permanent Heads", they were not appointments for life, or till the then mandatory retirement age. They did tend to stay in their jobs longer than they do these days, but they were often shuffled between departments. In that sense, "Permanent" meant having attained that level (the First Division) of the Public Service, not necessarily being permanently the head of a particular department. When it was felt their usefulness to the Public Service had expired, they'd be appointed as an ambassador or high commissioner, perhaps to an out-of-the-way country, and I'm sure that UK "permanent" heads were sometimes also accorded such "honours". -- [[User:JackofOz|JackofOz]] ([[User talk:JackofOz|talk]]) 20:03, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

== companies for $0.99c ==

Where can I buy a company for less than a dollar? [[User:Mr.K.|Mr.K.]] [[User_talk:Mr.K.|(talk)]] 12:12, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
:Bankruptcy court. Once they've liquidated all the assets you can offer to buy everything that's left (which will be lots of debts) for whatever price you like and they'll likely say yes (they've no reason not to, although you may need to pay some admin fees as well). Of course, the company will be insolvent, so you can't actually do anything with it, but it would be yours. --[[User:Tango|Tango]] ([[User talk:Tango|talk]]) 12:35, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

::Going off at a slight tangent, Mr. K., I saw an interesting newspaper article a few days ago about a group of Germans who make their living by owning one share in every major listed German company. It seems that Germany´s laws are very protective of the rights of all shareholders, even the very smallest, and every time any German company makes a technical mistake which affects shareholders´rights, these people begin legal actions which the company needs to settle out of court, and that rarely comes cheap. Buying just one share is a relatively expensive thing to do, of course, thanks to trading costs, but if you buy and sell stocks and shares from time to time you can always sell all but one or two (two is a better number, for reasons I shan´t go into) of the shares you own, and over time you will build up a portfolio of these very small shareholdings. [[User:Strawless|Strawless]] ([[User talk:Strawless|talk]]) 15:57, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

== hindu ==

my daughter has a homework question which is .
Are there any jobs hindus are not allowed to do which maybe against there religious beliefs <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/92.2.95.246|92.2.95.246]] ([[User talk:92.2.95.246|talk]]) 12:45, 6 October 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:Butcher, bull fighter, mice control?[[User:Mr.K.|Mr.K.]] [[User_talk:Mr.K.|(talk)]] 13:04, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
::Pope? [[User:Adam Bishop|Adam Bishop]] ([[User talk:Adam Bishop|talk]]) 13:05, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

:::BTW, we should not help you with homework questions. Even if it is for someone else. [[Special:Contributions/80.58.205.37|80.58.205.37]] ([[User talk:80.58.205.37|talk]]) 16:05, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

::::Well. Allegedly for someone else. -- [[User:Captain Disdain|Captain Disdain]] ([[User talk:Captain Disdain|talk]]) 16:07, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

:::::Well, assume good faith. [[User:Mr.K.|Mr.K.]] [[User_talk:Mr.K.|(talk)]] 16:11, 6 October 2008 (UTC)


== Politics and Tribalism ==

I read this statement in the comments section of a blog today, and as it's something I think about fairly often, and as my political friends just seem to roll their eyes whenever they point it out, I was wondering if it had a name:

"People on both the left and right tend to only accept facts as reported by the people on their own side, because "the other side are liars." And I think it's just as likely that Palin is simply deluded herself (all politicians start their lives in the rank and file) as that she's deliberately treating the people with contempt; in other words, those "facts" that have been pointed out to her aren't really "facts" at all because they come from people she doesn't trust."

[[User:MelancholyDanish|MelancholyDanish]] ([[User talk:MelancholyDanish|talk]]) 19:36, 6 October 2008 (UTC)MelancholyDanish
:A strong case of [[confirmation bias]] and [[selection bias]], perhaps? <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/194.171.56.13|194.171.56.13]] ([[User talk:194.171.56.13|talk]]) 19:45, 6 October 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

::It may sound amazing given what they say, but I believe politicians do normally believe what they say rather than ever deliberately lying. As an aside (or just ignore this as own research) an interesting thing I've observed is people tend to point out their own faults in others, even if there's something far worse they could say. I wonder if there's a term for that. [[User:Dmcq|Dmcq]] ([[User talk:Dmcq|talk]]) 20:34, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

:::This is simply called [[democracy]]. --[[User:Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM|Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM]] ([[User talk:Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM|talk]]) 20:38, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Revision as of 21:57, 10 October 2008

gOS 3.0 gadgets
Current Distribution, gOS 3.0, is based off Ubuntu 8.04 LTS (Herdy Heron)
DeveloperGood OS LLC
OS familyLinux
Working stateCurrent
Latest release3.0 "Gadgets" / September 23, 2008 (2008-09-23)
Platformsx86, Netbooks
Kernel typeUbuntu/Debian, (Linux)
Default
user interface		GNOME + Avant Window Navigator
Official websitewww.thinkgos.com

gOS or "good OS" is an operating system created by 'Good OS LLC', a Los Angeles-based corporation. The company initially advertised it as "An alternative OS with Google Apps and other Web 2.0 apps for the modern user." This first version gOS (1.0.1_386) was based on Ubuntu 7.10 and the Enlightenment window manager E17.[1]

On January 7, 2008, a test version (2.0.0-beta1) of gOS, intended to demonstrate the Everex CloudBook at the 2008 Consumer Electronics Show, and named "gOS Rocket", was released. This version was also E17 based.[2] The definitive second version of gOS debuted at the end February 2008,together with the launch of Everex's new CloudBook, the gBook laptop, and a new, second version of the gPC, the "encore".[3] This version was called gOS V2 Rocket, and was completely rewritten and now based on the GNOME window manager, Compiz fusion, and the Avant Window Navigator[4].

On April 6, 2008, Good OS launched a publicly available version of gOS, called gOS 2.9 "Space", intended for the gPC mini,[5] This version is based on Compiz fusion, Gnome, and the Avant Window Navigator dock manager, but also uses E17 code. It has a Dock with a "stack" very much like the "fan view" of Mac OS X v10.5.[6]

On September 23, 2008 Good OS launched gOS 3 Gadgets, which is described by Good OS, as "The third and best version of gOS to date, Perfect for Netbooks". It is still based on GNOME but uses a new dock called the Wbar. It introduces the full support for Wine 1.0, and Google Gadgets.

Design

gOS is based on the Ubuntu 7.10 distribution and a GUI largely imitative of Mac OS X Leopard. The earlier versions (1 and 2-beta) used the Enlightenment 17 window manager instead of the usual GNOME or KDE desktops, to create a desktop that had similar usability to Mac OS X. Enlightenment acts both as an X window manager, and as a desktop environment. Therefore early versions of gOS worked on systems as low end as a 350 MHz Pentium II with 196 MB of RAM,[7] but a typical gOS system would have used as a minimum a 1 GHz Pentium III with 256 MB RAM. After gOS2-beta the later versions of gOS abandoned the use as Enlightenment as desktop manager (although some E17 code still seems to be used), in favour of using GNOME, with Compiz Fusion and the Avant Window Navigator. This increased the need for memory to values similar to normal Ubuntu.

Based on the idea of cloud computing, all versions of gOS lean heavily on on-line applications built on Web 2.0 and AJAX technology so they also do not use much hard disk space for applications. The whole gOS-1 system fits comfortably in less than 2 GB. Also many of the documents created with gOS, such as Google Docs documents, can be saved on Google servers instead of on the local hard disk, so gOS can work with very small hard disks. In gOS V2 Rocket, Good OS introduced the use of Google's "Google Gears" technology which promises to make Google's web applications usable without an internet connection.[8] Currently, Google Reader and Google Docs are the only supported Google applications, though other web applications such as Remember the Milk have added Google Gears functionality.

gOS Rocket's primary features include a Mac OS X-like Dock called iTask-NG (also called'the Launcher'), containing icons to launch prams like the Firefox web browser, Rhythmbox audio player, Xine video player and Skype for Internet telephony. there are also options to open many Google- based web application like Google Mail,Google Docs,Google Calendar,Google Maps. Other programs can be added to the Launcher as well. The first E17 based version of gOS used another Dock-style interface called the iBar.

Other installed programs can be started through menus, among the most important is the photo and picture editing program the GIMP, the document viewer Evince, and the OpenOffice.org office suite. More programs can be installed using the built-in Synaptic Package Manager.[9]

Versions

gOS 1.0.1

gOS 1.0.1 desktop

gOS 1.0.1 was introduced on November 1, 2007, preinstalled on the Everex Green gPC TC2502 sold at Wal-Mart.[10] gOS 1.0.1 fully supported the advanced Power management capabilities of the gPC TC2502, so the system could be put in suspend mode and after turning on again was ready in a few seconds.

In December 2007, PC Club followed suit and reintroduced their Enpower Fuzion desktop[11] for sale with gOS installed for $189, which is their second system to include a Linux distribution since their controversial temporary inclusion of Linspire (then LindowsOS) in late 2003/early 2004[12] and the sale of the Empower Essence system with Ubuntu during the month of June 2007.

Everex followed on by creating the CloudBook, a laptop based on the VIA NanoBook reference. The CloudBook was bundled with gOS Rocket with a hint that later versions would include a touchscreen. At an RRP of $400, it was to compete with the ASUS Eee PC in the cheap miniature Laptop space.[13][14] Less well known is the fact that Everex simultaneously also worked on a more classic notebook, called the gBook, and on the Mac mini like gPC mini all designed to run gOS v2.[15]

Online vendor ClubIT.com offered a RoHS-compliant VIA C7 developer board bundled with gOS.[16]

gOS 2-beta (gOS Rocket E)

gOS Rocket E desktop

On 2008-01-07, Good OS LLC released a beta of the second version of gOS, called "gOS-live-2.0.0-beta1" and nicknamed "Rocket". However this version did not seem to be a valid replacement for rev 1.0.1 as it was missing some essential functions, such as hardware and system administration tools, and the easy to use application installer "Add/Remove".[17] It also missed the capability to access CDs and hard-disk partitions other than its own. The demo version status of this version became extra apparent when the new Everex CloudBook which was due to debut January 25, 2008 was delayed for a month to allow Good OS time to re-write this second version of gOS for the CloudBook ,gBook. and second version of the gPC[18] On April 11, 2008, Good OS released an updated version of gOS Rocket E.[19] In addition, a fan of gOS has also released an unauthorized remaster of gOS Rocket E which includes the aforementioned system administration tools and drive mounting as well as the Thunar file manager[20].

gOS V2 Rocket (gOS Rocket G)

Avant Window Navigator

Later it became apparent that the month was needed because Everex had decided that future versions of gOS for the Cloudbook, gBook and gPC2, would use the GNOME desktop environment, instead of E17. It was announced that this version would also be called "Rocket", to be precise gOS V2 "Rocket", (this version would also be offered to new gPC2 users)[21][22][23] and would use the Avant Window Navigator system to create a dock to resemble the older gOS versions in looks and functionality. Until the launch of gOS 2.9 this version was not available as a Live CD, but only to CloudBook owners. But after the launch of 2.9 it has now also become available as a Live_CD download from one of the mirrors as found on the Good OS web-site. This version is now referenced to as "gOS rocket G" ("G" for Gnome) to distinguish it from the older beta version now called "gOS rocket E", which is also still available for download.[24]

gOS 2.9 Space

gOS Space

gOS 2.9 Space became available as a generic Linux distribution on April 7, 2008, and is a debugged and extended version of the older gOS V2 Rocket G. It can be downloaded as an .ISO[25] that can be burned on a DVD (it's slightly too large for a CD), or can be put on another external bootable medium such as a memory stick or Secure Digital card reader acting as an external USB drive, with enough capacity. A gOS 2.9 DVD was also announced to be sold from The Good OS store on their website, but until now has not become available.[26] gOS Space is loaded with new MySpace features, but all the existing Google applications can still be used. As a Linux distribution, 2.9 is much more complete than 2.0-beta and is also less buggy. gOS Space is less "light" (using a small amount of memory) than older, publicly-available versions, as it's based on a combination of Ubuntu 7.10, the Gnome windows manager enhanced with Compiz fusion, and the Avant Window Navigator, a Dock-like launcher that has been enhanced with Stacks. According to Good OS, there is also Enlightenment code used, but its exact purpose is still unknown. In any case gOS Space needs about 384MB of RAM to work reasonably, the same amount as straight Ubuntu 7.10. When Ubuntu 8.04 (Hardy Heron) became available on April 24, 2008 it became obvious that trying to upgrade gOS 2.9 to the new Ubuntu renders it without any working kernels, leaving a non-working system, so upgrading gOS has been disabled by Good OS. It is not expected that this will be fixed, but that instead a new gOS (rev 3.0) will be released, based on Ubuntu 8.04.

gOS 2.9M Escape Pod

As of July 2, 2008 Good OS together with Osram Sylvania launched the Sylvania g netbook. Its similar to the original Everex CloudBook with more memory, and the trackpad and buttons have moved to the front of the device. the new system runs gOS 2.9M, a specially modified version of gOS 2.9 "space" based on Ubuntu 8.04 [27][28]

gOS 3.0 Gadgets

About a month after a first beta version, the final version of gOS 3.0 was released on the gOS website on September 23, 2008. It features integrated Google Gadgets, and includes Wine 1.0 and Mozilla Prism, and is based on the newer Ubuntu 8.04.1. This version goes "back to its roots", as it is intended for netbooks. The Avant Window Navigator's (abbreviated AWN or Awn) dock-like bar has been removed again in favor of a more "lightweight" version based on LXDE and renamed the "Wbar".[29] It is similar to the one used in the first Enlightenment-based gOS version. Currently only the main GNOME based version is available; the "Community Versions", that use other window managers like LXDE, XFCE, or Enlightenment (E17) are scheduled for release by the end of the year. The gOS 3.0 Gadgets Live CD can be downloaded from the thinkgos site. [2]

Upgrade problem

When Ubuntu released version 8.04 ("Hardy Heron") on April 24, 2008, it became apparent that gOS (versions before gOS 2.9M Escape pod) could no longer use the update/upgrade facilities that Ubuntu offered. Any attempt to upgrade any version of gOS before version 2.9M will either fail with an "incompatible windows manager" error, or will remove all kernels from the system. Version 3.0 of gOS solves the problem, as it is actually based on Ubuntu 8.04. Good OS claims new versions of gOS won't use Ubuntu's upgrading repositories, to prevent the problem from happening again. [30]

Version history table

Colour Meaning
Red Old release; no longer officially available
Yellow Old release; still officially available
Green Current release
Blue Future release
White Not publicly available
Version (screenshots) Code name development name Release date released for Based on Freely available? Desktop Manager Features and Changes
1.0.1_386 gOS Painfull 2007-11-01 Everex gPC Gutsy Gibbon Yes Live_CD E17 Initial release; Based on Ubuntu 7.10 and the Enlightenment 17 Desktop environment, plus lots of Google applications
2.0.1-beta1 gOS Rocket (E) Reloaded 2008-01-07 Everex CloudBook Demo at CES 2008 Gutsy Gibbon Yes Live_CD E17 Beta demo version especially developed to demonstrate with the Everex CloudBook at the 2008 Consumer Electronics Show. still based on Enlightenment 17 desktop
V2 gOS Rocket (G) Unknown 2008-02-22 Everex CloudBook, gBook, gPC and gPC2 Gutsy Gibbon V2 NO, gOS 2G Yes GNOME +AWN Final version as delivered installed on the CloudBook, and later the gBook and the gPC2. Not available as a live CD until the launch of "Space". Now based on GNOME and the Avant Window Navigator and Compiz fusion
2.9 gOS Space Unknown 2008-04-06 Everex gPC mini Gutsy Gibbon Yes as Live_CD GNOME +AWN Specially promoted as a version for MySpace users, adds "stacks" to the AWN launcher, and uses MySpace applications, does not need 3D hardware to support AWN. Fits only on a live_DVD
2.9M gOS Escape pod 2.9M Unknown 2008-02-07 Sylvania g netbook Hardy Heron (8.04) No, only on g-netbook GNOME +AWN Specific "light" version, especially developed for netbook systems
3.0 beta gOS 3.0 Gadgets beta Aphrodite 2008-08-06 Netbooks Hardy Heron (8.04.1) Yes, as live CD GNOME + LXDE Light netbook version that supports the Google desktop, including Google Gadgets,[31] and adds Wine 1.0, and Picasa. Fits on a Live CD, but it was a beta and had a few bugs.[32]
3.0 final gOS 3.0 Gadgets final (Gnome) Aphrodite 2008-09-24 Netbooks and Nettops Hardy Heron (8.04.1) Yes, as live CD GNOME + LXDE Light netbook version that supports the Google desktop, including Google Gadgets,[33] and adds Wine 1.0, and Picasa. Fits on a Live CD. Other "flavors" are still announced
3.0 (Community Versions) Unknown Unknown last quarter of 2008 multiple platforms Unknown Unknown LXDE, XFCE or E17 Will come in three other "flavors", based on the lightweight desktop environments LXDE and XFCE, as well as the window manager Enlightenment (E17) for memory-limited netbooks.

Live USB

A Live USB of gOS can be created manually or with UNetbootin [34].

See also

References

  1. ^ "gOS 1 at linuxquestions.org".
  2. ^ Babcock, Charles (2008-01-03). "Rocket Linux To Launch At CES". InformationWeek. Retrieved 2008-01-10.
  3. ^ the gPC2 at Everex
  4. ^ announcement that gOS rocket will be based on Gnome, not E17
  5. ^ the gPC mini at Everex
  6. ^ gOS space at techrepublic.com
  7. ^ 196 MB was needed to install gOS through the Live CD, but it ran on as little RAM as 128MB when installed, or when running from the Live CD
  8. ^ Linux Based gOS 2.0 Will Debut on Monday | LinuxElectrons
  9. ^ gOS 1.0.1 had Ubuntu's easy to use "add/remove" application installer, but was missing in gOS 2-beta. However the synaptic package manager is available in both versions.
  10. ^ Needleman, Rafe (2007-10-31). "Almost the Google PC: Everex gPC available at Wal-Mart". Retrieved 2008-01-10.
  11. ^ "ENFZ07 ENPOWER FUZION07". PC Club. Retrieved 2008-01-10.
  12. ^ "PC Club Announces Largest Linux Launch With More Than 50 Retail Stores Now Carrying LindowsOS Computers". San Diego: Lindows.com Inc. 2003-09-03. Retrieved 2008-01-10.
  13. ^ Walmart takes on the EeePC with Cloudbook » CLUMPC
  14. ^ Shah, Agam (2007-11-02). "Everex Readies Sub-$300 Linux Notebooks". pcworld. Retrieved 2007-11-08. {{cite web}}: Check date values in: |date= (help)
  15. ^ gBook details on the official gOS forum
  16. ^ "VIA Motherboard Bundle". Retrieved 2008-01-10.
  17. ^ Cite error: The named reference add/remove" was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  18. ^ Software 'tweaks,' Chinese new year delay Everex CloudBook
  19. ^ gOS - Discover a Good OS
  20. ^ gOS Ultimate E now available for download
  21. ^ gOS for the Cloudbook to use GNOME
  22. ^ http://cafelinux.org/gosforum/index.php/topic,308.msg1351/topicseen.html#msg1351 conformation by development team that the CloudBook will use a GNOME based gOS
  23. ^ http://blog.laptopmag.com/category/cloudbook first unwrapping of an early CloudBook
  24. ^ gOS - Discover a Good OS
  25. ^ gOS - Discover a Good OS
  26. ^ gOS - Discover a Good OS
  27. ^ gOS - Discover a Good OS
  28. ^ SYLVANIA G Netbook Computer
  29. ^ http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS7428727466.html?kc=rss
  30. ^ gOS upgrading problem
  31. ^ http://eeepc.itrunsonlinux.com/the-news/1-latest-news/126-gos3-linux-for-netbooks
  32. ^ http://groups.google.com/group/goslinux/browse_frm/thread/1154ad8ee6e3edb5
  33. ^ http://eeepc.itrunsonlinux.com/the-news/1-latest-news/126-gos3-linux-for-netbooks
  34. ^ [1]

External links

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