Circular trench system

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Reconstruction of a circular moat for Lower Austria. State exhibition 2005 in Heldenberg
Portal of the Lower Austria. State exhibition 2005 reconstructed circular moat
Reconstruction of the Goseck district moat , Saxony-Anhalt

Circular ditches , also called ring ditches or rondels , are structures of Neolithic cultures in Central Europe, which today are only preserved as archaeological findings .

These ring-shaped trenches and ramparts represent prehistoric earthworks . The oldest were circular or elliptical, combined excavated trenches with raised ramparts, and come from the context of linear ceramics ( early Neolithic , 5500-4900 BC). The heyday of the circular moat systems was the time of the Middle Neolithic (4900-4500 BC). Earlier, C-shaped systems were found in southern Italy ( Passo di Corvo ). Later systems show changed structures and come as interrupted earthworks from the funnel beaker culture (TBK) and Michelsberg culture (around 3500 BC), i.e. from the end of the Neolithic and the Bronze Age .

Distribution of Middle Neolithic circular moats

The “circular ditch idea” developed around 4900 BC. With the Lengyel culture from the Hungary / Slovakia area towards the west. The distribution took place from this core area along the Danube and Elbe to the west and extended over Austria (with a focus on Lower Austria ), the Czech Republic and Poland to the west of Germany ( cf. list of sites, paragraph 5 ).

The approximately 120 plants include the following archaeological cultures of the Middle Neolithic: Lengyel culture , stitch band ceramics , Rössen culture , Großgartacher culture , Oberlauterbach group and the Tisza-Herpály-Csöszhalom culture .

With the help of aerial archeology , a large number of new Middle Neolithic rondels could be discovered. In Lower Austria alone, around 40 new circular moats have been found since the beginning of systematic aerial photography archeology in 1961. Since then, new systems have also been discovered in Slovakia, Bohemia and Moravia, Lower Bavaria on the Isar , Saxony, Saxony-Anhalt (especially near the Elbe ) and Brandenburg. In the meantime 32 systems have already been found in Germany, which extend over all linear ceramic groups and partly show a continuity up to the beginning of the Lusatian culture. The plants in Csoszhalom-Polgár in Hungary, the plant in Cífer in Slovakia, the Schalkenburg plant near Quenstedt, Saxony-Anhalt and the Pömmelte-Zackmünde plant with the subsequent Schönebeck plant are particularly extensive. Due to their design, these apparently take one special significance and thus also show the settlement route, which is proven by the Neolithic black-painted ceramic finds in Polgár and Pömmelte. Systems in the Czech Republic are currently insufficiently researched. For the time being, it is only known that there are three systems at Hašov, Horšovský Týn, Czech Republic near the Austrian border, which, however, are attributed to the Bronze and / or Iron Ages. A 7500-year-old settlement in the middle of Prague fits better, however , which suggests that some circular moats were built over there by modern city planning and thus probably remain undetectable, something similar can be assumed under Brno .

construction

The facilities consist of one to three circular or elliptical, not always completely concentric trenches with a diameter of 40–300 m. With two-circuit systems, the diameters follow the ratio 2: 3 or 3: 4, in rare cases also 1: 2. The trenches have a pointed, steep U- or even V-shaped cross-section , are 4-8 m, in some cases up to 10 m wide and reach depths between 3 and 6 m.

The various trench rings are the same width or decrease in width from the inside to the outside. They usually have 2 to 4 or more regular breaks, which are much more numerous in the UK. An earth bridge forms the access to the inner area. Some are equipped with real gate systems.

Inside, one or more (for example, Schalkenburg ) concentric palisade rings made of wooden trunks follow , which surround the center . The center is a flat open area that sometimes contains remains of wooden structures.

The circular systems are always isolated from the settlement and are often located on hills. In Lower Bavaria , in larger moat rings, there were rondelles the size of a medieval town, about 300–800 m. The only exactly circular structure in Lower Bavaria by Schmiedorf-Osterhofen with three trenches, an outer diameter of 74 m and an inner palisade of 22 m, is located together with a second structure of only 52 m in size and only one trench in a larger oval of 320 m × 260 m, a double trench system from the beginning of the 5th millennium BC BC, in which the two rondels were in the center.

function

So far, three possibilities have been discussed in research:

  1. Central place for social, religious and political gatherings, trading place
  2. Defense system or refuge
  3. Cattle enclosure ( kraal )

In research, especially in southern Germany and Lower Austria, and recently also in central Germany, the realization that the main axes follow an astronomical orientation has prevailed. In some cases there are regular calendar constructions , astronomical observation centers and possibly solar temples .

Calendar constructions

Only a few systems were designed to be precisely concentric, e.g. B. the districts of Schmiedorf-Osterhofen and Eching-Viecht . Most systems, on the other hand, are rather irregular: compressed circles, ellipses. The Meisternthal ellipse is even constructed over two focal points . An astonishing achievement, 2000 years before Stonehenge , which also has an exactly elliptical shape.

Investigations on the systems in Bavaria around 20 years ago - the first magnetic prospecting there took place in 1984–1988 - had already shown that it was very likely that they were astronomically oriented.

The comparison of the gate axes showed that there was always an astronomical orientation to the sun, most often at sunrise on the winter solstice ( azimuth of 127 degrees). The Bochum astronomer Wolfhard Schlosser (see also Nebra Sky Disc ) confirmed the alignment in an investigation of Bavarian systems with a probability of 99.7%. The large Kothingeichendorf complex, which has all the typical characteristics, is precisely aligned with the cardinal points, just like the small one in Meisternthal. The east and west gates point to sunrise and sunset on the spring and autumn equinoxes , March 21st and September 23rd. The same applies to Ippesheim in Middle Franconia, where the astronomer Th.Schmidt-Kahler confirmed the absolutely regular alignment of the bridges and gaps in the palisades with the sunrise of the summer and winter solstice, as well as the sunset at the same day and night .

But there are also differences in the details of the individual systems. The Ramsdorf- Wallerfing complex consists of three trenches, three gates and an inner palisade. With a diameter of 90/79 m, it is the second largest facility in Lower Bavaria and has an elliptical shape.

The orientation of one of the two gate axes at the Ramsdorf-Wallerfing facility is different and, with an azimuth of 116 degrees, exactly complies with Alexander Thom's calendar theory . The well-known amateur archaeologist, who had developed extensive studies and hypotheses on Stonehenge , postulated a general megalithic calendar . This was based on the course of the sun and the four important calendar dates, the equinox and the solstices . It should last 16 months. The 8-month solar calendar derived from this is based on the corresponding holiday dates, which the Celts were called Samhain ( All Saints' Day on November 1st), Imbolc ( Candlemas on February 2nd). The orientation of the axes thus followed neither the equinoxes nor the solstices , but the old start and end dates of the seasons: November 1st, February 2nd, May 1st. The north-west gate with azimuth 217 to 228 degrees falls exactly on the sunset of the winter solstice on December 21st. If this early Stone Age calendar had general validity, then it would be for the 5th millennium BC. Proven .

This ancient basic astronomical calendar is still used today to calculate the seasons in Great Britain and Ireland, while in Central Europe and the USA they are shifted to the modern calendar. Summer in Germany does not begin until the day of the summer solstice , while there it begins on May 1st and the solstice actually falls in the middle of summer. A relic of this older conception has been preserved in the name of the midsummer night day on June 21st, which deviates from the modern calendar concept, according to which the year is divided exactly on July 31st and this date is closer to the middle of midsummer today is seen.

There are also differences in the accuracy and the type of sighting lines, some gate openings fall centrally on the sunrise and sunset points, with others the right edge of the door is sighted, and with systems such as Ippesheim and Steinabrunn , you could see bearing lines over the edge of the door to prominent points Determine the horizon. In the case of Ippesheim on the Kappel and Bullenheimer Berg . As with a sundial, the shadows of the culverts or individual wooden posts could point to stones within the system and thus enable the astronomical points to be determined to the day.

But no calendar construction

In contrast to the above theories, the astronomer Georg Zotti comes to a rather contradicting conclusion. A clear astronomical reference to all circular moat systems is not recognizable. With the Astrosim project started in 2008, he evaluated the data from approx. 30 then known Lower Austrian circular moats. With the help of software , he visualized the data for statistics and in 3D models . So the gates of the facilities followed the slope of the terrain and in the rarest cases sky events. With Pranhartsberg 2 there would also be a system that is very clearly oriented towards the solstice, but a coincidence cannot be refuted with it.

archeology

The location of the Middle Neolithic circular moat in Rosenburg (Lower Austria) can be recognized by the discoloration of the arable soil.
Kreisgrabenanlage Kleinroetz, Austria

Due to the intensive agriculture in Central Europe, the monumental complexes have now been almost completely leveled and in the rarest cases can still be identified through earth walls that are visible today, unlike the medieval, often Slavic castle walls . They are found mainly through aerial archeology and subsequent magnetometer prospecting . Even the inner palisade rings could be found in the case of Bavarian systems by means of magnetic prospecting. Due to the rotting of the buried tree stakes, magnetotactic bacteria accumulated in the earth-filled ring trenches and made the trenches visible on the magnetic image (after J. Fassbinder ).

The history of the discovery began in the 19th century . The first mention of such a complex comes from 1885 with the description of the Bohemian Krpy district moat . From 1919 to 1924, the Zeholfing / Kothingeichendorf facility in Lower Bavaria was scientifically examined. In 1937 a circle with a diameter of 42 meters was excavated near Mühlbach am Manhartsberg (Lower Austria).

The first complete excavation of a circular moat took place in 1967 in the course of a research excavation in Těšetice (South Moravia). Settlements are always connected to the circular systems, which are usually found close to or a few kilometers away from the system.

Fragments of mostly female, small female figures made of clay are often found in circular moats. In addition to animal bones, isolated human skeletal parts can also be found in the trenches . In Friebritz (Lower Austria), a ritual dismemberment of the corpse is suspected.

In Ippesheim , a rapid change in the function of the system can be seen, after a few generations its calendar purpose was abandoned. About 150 years after it was built in the 49th or 48th century BC A (victim) burial of a 30-year-old woman took place upside down in a narrow, shoulder-width shaft in its center. Why the facilities were abandoned so soon and underwent a change in their ritual function remains unclear.

A complete excavation of circular moats is seldom done (mainly for financial reasons).

List of circular moats

Germany

North Rhine-Westphalia

  • Bochum- Harpen (simple circular moat)
  • Swisttal - Ollheim (triple circular moat)
  • Warburg- Daseburg (simple circular moat - "miniature circular moat")

Francs

  • Hopferstadt (triple circular ditch system, largest palisade ditch Ø 152 m) - aerial survey since 1980, magnetic survey 2001
  • Ippesheim (simple circular trench system, Ø 65 m) - aerial photo prospecting 1980 + 1989, magnetic prospecting 1997, excavation 1998–2004, dates from the earliest period of circular trench systems 4900-4800 BC. Chr.

Lower Bavaria

  • Eching-Viecht (double circular moat system)
  • Irlbach , district of Straubing-Bogen (double circular moat)
  • Künzing -Unternberg (double circular ditch system) - ellipse with a diameter of 100 m
  • Landau an der Isar - Meisternthal , district of Dingolfing-Landau (simple circular moat) - exact ellipse over 2 focal points, Ø 36/44 m
  • Oberpöring -Gneiding, Lkr.Deggendorf (double circular ditch system)
  • Osterhofen -Schmiedorf 1 + 2, district of Deggendorf (single and triple circular ditch system) - exactly circular, magnetic prospection 1984, investigation 1995
  • Stephansposching , district of Deggendorf (1 outer trench and 2 smaller inner palisade trenches)
  • Wallerfing -Ramsdorf, Lkr.Deggendorf (double circular moat system)
  • Zeholfing- Kothingeichendorf , district of Dingolfing-Landau (double circular ditch system) - scientific soil investigation 1919–24, magnetic prospecting 1984 and 1996

Upper Bavaria

Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania

  • Wollschow, district of Pasewalk (triple circular ditch, stitch ribbon ceramics), associated with a considerable number of megalithic graves

Brandenburg

  • Bochow , Gd. Niedergörsdorf (double circular ditch, dated as a stitched ceramic, around 4700 BC)
  • Nauen , OT Berge (multi-tiered trench system)
  • Dyrotz (triple circular moat)

Lower Saxony

Saxony

Simplified model of the settlement and the circular moat systems in Dresden-Nickern, State Museum for Archeology Chemnitz

Saxony-Anhalt

Plan of the Belleben I district moat
Plan of the Belleben II district moat

Thuringia

Austria

Lower Austria

  • Asparn an der Zaya , 2-fold circular ditch system Michelstetten (Ø 56/83 m), partly magnetically prospected; simple Schletz facility (Ø 50 m), magnetically prospected and partially excavated
  • Altruppersdorf (double circular moat system)
  • Au am Leithagebirge (triple circular moat)
  • Friebritz 1 + 2 (1: simple circular moat system, Ø 55 m; 2: double circular moat system, 3 gates, Ø 117/142 m, partially excavated)
  • Gauderndorf (triple circular moat, Ø 55/78/98 m)
  • Glaubendorf 1 + 2 (1: simple circular trench, Ø 53 m; 2: triple circular trench, Ø 72/92/112 m; aerial photo and magnetic prospecting 1998–2000)
  • Gnadendorf (double circular moat, Ø 51/76 m)
  • Göllersdorf district ditch Gfletzgraben
  • Herzogbirbaum
  • Hornsburg 2 + 3 (2: double circular trench, Ø 65/88 m; 3: triple circular trench, Ø 65/85/105 m)
  • Immendorf (triple circular ditch, Ø 55/85/105 m, aerial photo prospection 1981)
  • Kamegg (double system, Ø 76/144 m, first aerial survey in 1961, excavation at the end of the 1980s)
  • Karnabrunn (simple circular moat)
  • Kleedorf (simple circular moat)
  • Kleinrötz (double circular trench, Ø 70/104 m, magnetically prospected in 1997)
  • Michelstetten (double circular ditch, Ø 56/83 m, 1995 partly magnetically prospected)
  • Moosbierbaum (double circular ditch system)
  • Mühlbach am Manhartsberg (simple circular ditch, Ø 46 m, excavation 1937)
  • Oberthern (double circular moat)
  • Perchtoldsdorf 1 + 2 (double and triple circular moat system)
  • Plank am Kamp (double circular moat)
  • Porrau (double circular moat)
  • Pottenbrunn (simple circular moat)
  • Pranhartsberg ( Sitzendorf an der Schmida ) I + II (I: double circular trench, Ø 54/80 m, magnetically prospected in 1999; II: double circular trench, Ø 82/105 m, magnetically prospecting in 1998)
  • Puch 1 + 2 (1: double circular ditch system, Ø 64/86 m, magnetically prospected in 1995; 2 = Kleedorf: simple circular ditch system, Ø 100 m, magnetically prospected in 1995)
  • Rosenburg (simple circular ditch, Ø 42 m, magnetically prospected in 1985 and partially excavated)
  • Schletz (simple circular moat)
  • Schiltern (triple circular ditch, Ø 60/85/105 m, prospected magnetically in 2016, 1 palisade ring with two openings)
  • Simonsfeld (triple circular ditch, Ø 60/90/125 m)
  • Statzendorf (double circular moat)
  • Steinabrunn (double circular ditch, Ø 59/80 m, magnetically prospected in 1997)
  • Stiefern (double circular ditch, Ø 49/73 m)
  • Straß im Straßertale (double circular ditch, Ø 57/77 m)
  • Strögen (double circular trench system, Ø 50/75 m, magnetically prospected in 1987 and partially excavated)
  • Velm , Gde. Himberg (triple loop grave plant)
  • Wetzleinsdorf (simple circular moat - no longer verifiable)
  • Wilhelmsdorf 1 + 2 (single and double circular ditches, Ø 165 m, excavation 1991–95)
  • Winches near Melk (simple circular ditch system)
  • Würnitz (double circular moat system)

Upper Austria

  • Ölkam (double circular ditch system)

Poland

Slovakia

Czech Republic

Turkey

  • Pendik (simple circular ditch system)

Hungary

  • Aszód - (simple circular moat)
  • Balatonmagyaród
  • Bezeréd-Teleki-dűlő
  • Belvárdgyula
  • Polgár - Csőszhalom (four- to five-fold or multi-phase circular trench system?)
  • (double circular moat)
  • Sormás-Török-földek
  • Vokány (double circular moat)
  • Szemely - Hegyes (one large multiple and one triple circular moat)

See also

literature

  • Bick, A. (2004): The Lords of the Rings . in: Image of Science. Konradin, Leinfelden-Echterdingen 2004,2, pp. 56-61, ISSN  0006-2375 .
  • Daim F. & Neubauer W. (eds.) (2005): Time travel Heldenberg, Mysterious Kreisgräben. Catalog for the Lower Austrian State Exhibition 2005. St. Pölten.
  • Norma Literski , Louis D. Nebelsick : Catalog of the circular ditch systems and related tells of the first half of the 5th millennium in Central and Southeastern Europe. In: François Bertemes , Harald Meller (Hrsg.): Neolithic Circular Enclosures in Europe / Neolithic Circular Enclosures in Europe. International workshop 7. – 9. May 2004 in Goseck (Saxony-Anhalt) / International Workshop 7th – 9th May 2004 in Goseck (Saxony-Anhalt, Germany) (= conferences of the State Museum for Prehistory in Halle. Volume 8). State Office for Monument Preservation and Archeology Saxony-Anhalt, Halle (Saale) 2012, ISBN 978-3-939414-33-9 , pp. 433-532 ( online ).
  • Lück, E., F. Locher & M. Eisenreich (1994): Geophysical investigations of a double circular trench system of the Neolithic at the upper Nuthelauf (Brandenburg) . Excavations and finds . Akademie-Verl., Berlin 39, 1994, pp. 287-296, ISSN  0004-8127 .
  • Michaela Maurer: The circular moat of Rosenburg, Lower Austria. Diploma thesis, Vienna 2012. (Available online at: http://othes.univie.ac.at/21338/ )
  • Němejcová-Pavúková, V. (1995): Svodín 1. Two circular moats of the Lengyel culture. - Studia Arch. Et Mediae II. Bratislava.
  • Petrasch, J. (1990): Middle Neolithic circular moats in Central Europe. - Reports RGK 71/1, 407-564.
  • Schmidt, K. (2006): Ceramic earthworks - defense systems? In: Varia neolithica. Vol. 4. Weissbach, ISBN 3-937517-43-X .
  • Schmotz, K. The Middle Neolithic circular moat systems in Lower Bavaria. Notes on the progress of research. In: K. Schmotz (Hrsg.): Lectures of the 25th Lower Bavarian Archaeological Day . Rahden / Westf. 2007, pp. 71-106.
  • Spatzier, A. (2012): Systematic investigations of the circular moat of Pömmelte-Zackmünde, Salzlandkreis. At the end of the excavations on central German roundabouts as part of the research group FOR: 550. In: Arch. Sachsen-Anhalt Sonderbd. 13 (Halle / Saale 2012), 89–98.
  • André Spatzier: Circular moats of the 4th – 1st centuries Millennium BC In Central Germany. Preliminary report on the 2005 excavations in Saxony-Anhalt. In: Archeology in Saxony-Anhalt. NF Volume 6, 2012, pp. 71-89 ( online ).
  • Trnka, G. (1991): Studies on Middle Neolithic Circular Ditch Systems. - Mitt. Prehist. Come on. Austrian Akad. Wiss. Vienna 26.
  • Wetzel, G. (1994): The first Neolithic circular moat east of the Elbe near Bochow, Kr. Jüterbog . in: excavations and finds. Akademie-Verl., Berlin 39, pp. 61–65. ISSN  0004-8127
  • Circular moats - monuments between heaven and earth. in: Archeology in Germany (AID). Theiss, Stuttgart 2005, 6. ISSN  0176-8522 ; in this:
    • W. Schier & Gerd Trnka: The first cult buildings in Central Europe? (Pp. 20–22)
    • W. Neubauer: Searching for traces in Lower Austria (p. 24–27)
    • H. Becker, H. & JWE Fassbinder: Towards the Sun (p. 28–31)
    • W. Schier: Calendar construction and ritual complex (pp. 32–35)
    • H. Becker et al. a .: Between heaven and earth (pp. 40–43)

Individual evidence

  1. Dieter Kaufmann, On the function of linear ceramic earthworks. In: K. Schmotz (Ed.), Lectures of the 15th Niederbayerischen Archäologentag. Deggendorf, 1997, pp. 41-87
  2. http://astrosim.univie.ac.at/Erresult.html Astrosim results
  3. http://astrosim.univie.ac.at Project Astrosim
  4. ↑ A circular moat was discovered in the Rhineland. In: archaeologie-online.de. June 26, 2020. Accessed July 2, 2020.
  5. Stefan Hecht, Jörg Faßbinder : The look into the underground: Magnetometry and geoelectrical tomography in geoarchaeology. (PDF; 2.4 MB) (No longer available online.) Geographical Rundschau , April 2006, archived from the original on November 20, 2008 ; Retrieved March 6, 2010 .
  6. ^ K. Schmotz: The Middle Neolithic circular moat systems of Lower Bavaria. Notes on the progress of research. In: K. Schmotz (Hrsg.): Lectures of the 25th Lower Bavarian Archaeological Day . Rahden / Westf. 2007, pp. 71-106, esp. 93.
  7. ^ K. Schmotz: The Middle Neolithic circular moat systems of Lower Bavaria. Notes on the progress of research. In: K. Schmotz (Hrsg.): Lectures of the 25th Lower Bavarian Archaeological Day . Rahden / Westf. 2007, pp. 71-106, esp. 94-95.
  8. ^ K. Schmotz: The Middle Neolithic circular moat systems of Lower Bavaria. Notes on the progress of research. In: K. Schmotz (Hrsg.): Lectures of the 25th Lower Bavarian Archaeological Day . Rahden / Westf. 2007, pp. 71-106, esp. 83-86.
  9. ^ K. Schmotz: The Middle Neolithic circular moat systems of Lower Bavaria. Notes on the progress of research. In: K. Schmotz (Hrsg.): Lectures of the 25th Lower Bavarian Archaeological Day . Rahden / Westf. 2007, pp. 71-106, esp. 92-93.
  10. ^ K. Schmotz: The Middle Neolithic circular moat systems of Lower Bavaria. Notes on the progress of research. In: K. Schmotz (Hrsg.): Lectures of the 25th Lower Bavarian Archaeological Day . Rahden / Westf. 2007, pp. 71-106, esp. 82-83.
  11. ^ K. Schmotz: The Middle Neolithic circular moat systems of Lower Bavaria. Notes on the progress of research. In: K. Schmotz (Hrsg.): Lectures of the 25th Lower Bavarian Archaeological Day . Rahden / Westf. 2007, pp. 71-106, esp. 89-91.
  12. Florian Eibl et al .: The Middle Neolithic circle ditch of Stephansposching, District Deggendorf on the state of knowledge after the archaeological and scientific investigations of the years 2008 and 2009. In: K. Schmotz (Hrsg.): Lectures of the 28th Niederbayerischen Archäologentag . Rahden / Westf. 2010, pp. 165–201. (PDF)
  13. ^ K. Schmotz: The Middle Neolithic circular moat systems of Lower Bavaria. Notes on the progress of research. In: K. Schmotz (Hrsg.): Lectures of the 25th Lower Bavarian Archaeological Day . Rahden / Westf. 2007, pp. 71-106, esp. 86-89.
  14. ^ K. Schmotz: The Middle Neolithic circular moat systems of Lower Bavaria. Notes on the progress of research. In: K. Schmotz (Hrsg.): Lectures of the 25th Lower Bavarian Archaeological Day . Rahden / Westf. 2007, pp. 71-106, esp. 76-82.
  15. Bochow district ditch ( Memento from December 30, 2013 in the Internet Archive )
  16. ^ Georg-August-Universität Göttingen: Oldest monumental building in Lower Saxony discovered. In: scinexx.de. November 6, 2015, accessed June 20, 2017 .
  17. a b c d e Lower Austria - immovable and archaeological monuments under monument protection. ( Memento from June 26, 2016 in the Internet Archive ) . Federal Monuments Office , as of June 21, 2016 (PDF).
  18. ^ Michaela Maurer: The district ditch of Rosenburg, Lower Austria. Diploma thesis, Vienna 2012. (Available online at: http://othes.univie.ac.at/21338/ )
  19. http://archeowiesci.pl/2009/08/14/rondel-kolo-biskupina-najnowsze-odkrycia
  20. http://www.iaepan.edu.pl/~zbikob/lotnicza/page27.html
  21. http://www.iaepan.edu.pl/~zbikob/lotnicza/page27.html
  22. http://archeowiesci.pl/2011/07/18/neolityczny-rondel-odkryto-kolo-raciborza/
  23. ^ Podborský, V .: Těšetice-Kyjovice 4th roundabout osady lidu s moravskou malovanou keramikou. Brno, 1988

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